Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Jenny Hagel

Episode Date: July 8, 2025

Jenny Hagel joins Mark to discuss writing for Late Night with Seth Meyers, producing The Amber Ruffin Show, & her stage show Jenny Hagel Gives Advice.   Website: https://jennyhagel.komi.io/ Upcoming Live Show: https://jennyhagel.komi.io/#e1f281ce-02ce-49cd-a9ec-1ae65d1c8478   Follow on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jennyhagel

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by latenighter.com. I am Mark Malkoff. Today, long-time Seth Myers writer, Jenny Hagel joins us. Lots to talk about. Now it's time to go inside late night. Jenny Hagel, thanks for talking with us. Thanks for having me. So I was with Alex Bays.

I interviewed him for another podcast I did. And, you know, I'm sitting next to him across from him in his apartment. And I'm asking him who the most persistent person is. I had a podcast about persistence. And it took Bayes, you know, 10 years at Saturday Night Live to get hired. And now, you know, Seth says he's the greatest joke writer and alive. And it is one of those things where, you know, Bayes has been around so many people. And he mentioned that you're the one I should talk to for it.

But the podcast folded. But no, he said you need to talk to Jenny. And I, of course, knew who you were. But it is one of those things in my head, the story. told myself is, you know, Jenny, you know, she's so talented and well-respected over there that there was no struggle. But dear goodness, I mean, 10 years in Chicago, 35 late-night packets rejected over six years moving here. And I was, you, you flatter me. Oh, things for people, sometimes I think that people, especially younger people, just think that

with somebody like you and you get recognized, I mean, on the street from, from, from, Seth Myers, that it is one of those things where there wasn't much, I would see Alex Bayes' name in the SNL credits for a decade. And I'm just like, oh, this is great. He just, you know, he just got it. And I was like, oh, my goodness, I have to tell that story about how long it really took. And I love that. And you're both such at your top of your game. And it's such a lesson and just timing and just, you know, it just sometimes takes a while for certain people. I think that's right. I think it's all, it was also a nice lesson in knowing that I wasn't crazy because I would watch late night shows and I would think to myself like, I think I can do

this. Like I think this is a good fit for me. But then when the packets would get rejected over and over again, I was like, all right, maybe I'm crazy. And I know it's not always about, you know, just are you a good fit? There are a lot of people who want these jobs. Sometimes it's right time, right place, you know, being good and also knowing somebody at the show. But I feel like when I got there and, and of course, like whenever you're at any new job in any field, it takes a minute to get your feet under you. But once I hit my stride, I was like, okay, I wasn't crazy. I do have this skill set. For people that are listening that are not in writing comedy, those packets sometimes will take a week or more to write. Honestly, what's crazy is they should, but often what would happen

is you would find out about a job opening and get an invitation to submit material. And it would almost inevitably say, please submit this in three days. So it should take a week to, and they would there would be a writing assignment. So I don't know. It's been a long time since I submitted one of these packets. I think it might be a little different now, partly because I think people were like, I think out of empathy, we're like we can't make people do this anymore. And also I think there might have been some union involvement. But the way it used to work was if a late night show was looking to hire writers, they would send out a very specific set of instructions. And they would say if you're interested in applying, write these things. And it might be like 10 monologue jokes, three ideas for

desk bits one full sketch or um i know i did a colbert packet once that was like an idea for a guest we can have on the show and then five sample interview questions that are funny um you know like it was they might say like write a uh act one type news piece like for daily show that kind of thing but every packet set of packet instructions would be different and even for the same show hiring round to hiring round the instructions would be different so you would get these instructions and then they would have to your material would have to have to be written inspired by that week's news. So it wasn't the kind of thing where you could like write a screenplay and have it ready to go on your computer. Like you had to wait and then it was like a starting pistol went off and then you would just write round the clock until it was due.

And usually when people are doing this kind of thing, a lot of times a late night job will be someone's first professional comedy job. So you're often trying to do all of that around a day job where you're trying to be like at least minimally effective and responsible. So it was just like a lot. I remember like, I remember writing one packet like at three o'clock in the morning and then just being like falling asleep at the keyboard and then be like, okay, I'll go to bed, get two hours of sleep and then wake up and keep writing. Bill Schaft, who was at Letterman, a prized opening remarks writer. It took him seven years, I think, to get hired at Letterman. He just kept doing it. It's just such a life lesson for anything to keep going and just what an impact you've made on Seth's show.

and we'll talk about that. So you've done these 35 packets that get rejected. Then in 2016, 2015, you hear from your pal, Amber Ruffin, who's over at Seth Meyer's show and she's doing great, that there's an opening. And is there any part of you that just said, you know what, I've done so many of these, what's the point? Or was it excitement or was it just no expectations or walk me through that? It's so funny you asked that.

So I, at that point, I've been living in New York for six or seven years. I had done over 30 packets submitting for late night shows. Some of them I'd never heard back. Some of them I had gotten to the second round. Some of them I had gotten to the third round. And then I had just never been hired. So I was working as a TV writer, but at a lot of, you know, short-lived cable network shows, all of them non-union.

I was making like an okay living for New York City, you know. But it was very like a little bit paycheck to paycheck. And I had one summer where I really, I think my name just got passed around enough that I probably submitted to like seven or eight shows just in this one summer. And I think I got to the second round of all of them and then got hired by none of them. And I, at this point, I was a single mom. I had a one year old. And I was like, okay, maybe I, it's almost like I had a meeting with myself. And I was like, you know what?

Maybe I just need to admit that this is not going to happen. I'm making I can I'm making just enough to like support myself support my son I've gotten you know I'm working as a TV writer I was working at MTV at the time and I'm doing TV writing for a living which is farther than I thought this would go you know I'm in my 30s I probably thought I would be like a high school Spanish teacher by now so maybe we just admit to ourselves that we're never going to be a late night writer and that is okay and we have ridden this dream as far as it's going to go and I'm not kidding like three days later Amber texted me was like hey I think we're hiring at my job, do you want to submit? And it was, I'll never forget because it was a Thursday night. And she said, do you think you can get me a packet by Sunday? And I was too embarrassed to tell my own friend that, like, no, I can't because my soul has died and my dream, I've given up on my dream. I was really just too embarrassed to tell my good friend no. So I said, sure. And I was like, and in my head, I was like, this is the last one I'm doing. This is too humiliating. And I did it. I really grounded out. And in between parenting and working, I pulled this.

packet together and I remember I send it to her on a Sunday evening. She said, great, I just forwarded on to Seth and to Alex Bays. And that's the packet that got me hired, which is crazy. So I guess the lesson is give up on your dreams. So how do you find out that you get hired? I'm guessing they call you and you meet usually a lot of times you go in and meet the host and then it's like nice meeting you will be in touch possibly. But how do you actually find out you're hired? I did a in-person interview, which also was like the first time I'd even gotten to that point. I went in and met in Seth's office with Seth and Mike Shoemaker and Alex Bays and they had a really lovely and they were so lovely about putting me at ease because of course you know you're like flop sweating

and trying to act normal and you're like wearing a blazer but you're a comedy writer's like why are you wearing a blazer like you're just everything is just so you're so nervous and um they were lovely and and then I didn't hear anything for two months and then another guy that I knew from the comedy community posted on social media I'm so excited to announce I've been hired by late night with Seth Myers. And so I saw that and I texted Amber. She said, yeah, that doesn't, that doesn't bode well. I'm sorry, but, you know, we'll figure something out. I'm going to help you get hired somewhere. And then a couple weeks later, I got hired. And what I found out was they liked both of us and somebody was really gracious and created more space in the budget so that I could also be

hired. I mean, talk about getting in their mark on the skinnier teeth, like just barely, but I just feel really. And then what I really love is when they hired me, they said, look, they're like, We usually hire people either to be a monologue writer or a sketchwriter. They said, you clearly have both skills. So why don't you just try everything and see where you feel like you fit? To my knowledge, that's the first time someone's been hired, the first time they hired somebody at the show like that. And it was so lovely because I spent the first year just writing as much as I could.

I contributed to Closer Look. I wrote some long pieces that were very serious, like Closer Look style pieces, but maybe they had like, I think I gave them different titles. I wrote monologue jokes. I wrote very weird, silly sketches. I wrote straight to camera pieces where I talked about queer issues. I just, like, did as much as I could and slept very little. And then little by little, I think something kind of clicked around the end of that first year,

where I found the spaces where I felt like I was contributing the best and just decided to focus on those. You were really smart. You sat behind Alex Bays in rehearsal, and you kind of were looking at the jokes he would choose from different people, including yourself. You would see how he would organize. the joke. So by the time you become an executive producer and the Amber Ruffin show and the head writer, that really did rub off on you, correct? And I learned from the best. I learned from the absolute best. Him and Mike Shoemaker and

Seth, all three of them are amazing bosses. They're amazing producers. So the way, first of all, the way that they made the show so efficient. I had worked at other TV shows, lots of other TV shows where you'd be there until the middle of the night. You would write a whole script Monday, Tuesday, and then somebody on a whim would be like, I don't like it. Let's throw it out. And you'd start over. I worked on so many shows with so much wasted time. And I think I thought that was just how you had to make television. I would work at a show where we worked 80 hours a week to make one 21 minute episode a week. And then I got to late night. We come in every morning at 9.30. We leave, unless you are in the show, before the pandemic, we used to leave every night,

6.30 on the dot. I'm at home having dinner with my son every night. And we're making four full original episodes every week. And so I thought, oh, inefficiency is a choice. I've never heard of that. That's amazing. It was incredible. For late night. Yeah, people are able to have lives.

They're able to date, have marriages, have children that they see and know by name. It was just really, so I think, too, like, I learned from them how to run a really great, efficient workplace. And by efficient, I don't mean hurried or careless. They just knew what to spend time on and what to not worry about and waste time on. And I think, in that sense, they also felt like they really respected us all this people. And you were able to have a life outside of work, which makes you a better, you know, ironically, makes you a better work. Or it makes you enjoy work more. It makes you well-rested and focused and ready to work and not burned out.

So then when Amber and I created Amber Ruffin Show, it was so lovely to be able to take those lessons to have learned from people and watch people do that, to be able to have felt what it feels like to be an employee in that environment and then be able to create that for other people. I found it interesting when you would talk to somebody that you hired. It was a new hire on Amber Ruffin for that they were a writer that I can't even believe you would have to say this, but I guess you witnessed this, that you would tell them, I don't care, this is quote, I do not care if your pitch, the pitch of yours is funny. I do care that you're trying. I have been a writer on staff, so you do not kid a kidder. I know if you wrote this 10 minutes before the meeting on the back of a cocktail napkin,

I know if you put thought into this, as long as you put thought into this, I do not. not care if it ends up being a thing that we use or we don't. I just care that we're looking all just looking to take swings because eventually something will connect. You know, normally when somebody gets hired for one of these things, they're so scared out of their mind, they're going to be fired that they are overly prepared. But you would actually sometimes have people like this that were new hires? Yeah, you'd have a new hire. We hired, we had the really great fortune to hire a lot of people late night with Amber, I'm sorry, Amber Ruffin Show, who had never had a late-night job before. They were like comedians who were very experienced performers and writers

and they just had not gotten their first break. And it was a very cool experience, but also, you know, those are the people who are often the most scared because I know because I've been that person. So it was really, I think it really helped me to have been a writer on staff because I know the times where I have like been so sweaty and been like, if this isn't funny, I'm going to be in so much trouble. But what often I think that leads to is people sitting on good ideas because they might think of something really funny, but it might be a little weird. It might be a little outside the box. of what the show regularly does. But that's what you want.

You want some cool new idea that's interesting that gives you a fresh, like breath of fresh air on the show that gives you a new perspective. You want those weird outside the box ideas. But if people are scared in a pitch meeting, you will never hear those ideas. You will only hear the safest ideas. And you don't, I mean, some ideas are just great.

They're just like right down the middle. It's like throwing a strike. Like it hits right in the middle in that sweet spot and it's exactly right. and perfect for your show and for what your show has always done. And it's just funny. But sometimes you get these weird left turns. And that's where I think a lot of times the real joy is, but you really only get those in a safe brainstorming environment. Now, for Seth Myers, do you still do this? I'm guessing it's on Fridays or I'm not really sure what day, but when you would

all write pieces and go in Seth's office and just kind of read them like a table read. Yeah, we don't do it in Seth's office only because it's too small. But we do them less now. maybe once a month. We all sit around a conference room table. And everybody just brings in a sketch. And I heard Seth interviewed one time. And he was like, I used to give assignments. But now I just tell them to bring in anything. And then we see what's he said in what's in their weird little hearts. But again, like that's, I also learn that from from working at late night. It's like if you ask people, what do you want to write about? You get the most interesting stuff. Right. Whereas like, me as a head writer, Amber Ruffin Show, I know what I care about.

But what I care about, that's only one perspective. And it's by definition, any human's perspective. is narrow because you can only see the world how you see it. So it was such a delight to be like, great, everybody bring me something on such and such day. And you would get the most eclectic collection of things because one person reads the news that weekend and is struck by this story and someone else is struck by this story. And someone else, like one time one of my favorite pieces I ever did at late night

was about a weird thing that happened to me when I took my son to the zoo. That has nothing to even do with the news. But it was a little personal experience I had that was so weird and odd and I couldn't stop thinking about it. So finally, I called Amber Ruffin because I was like, I cannot stop thinking about this. And she's like, you've got to write this up for the show. You get people's very unique perspectives when you let people write whatever moves them.

And that doesn't, you won't use everything. Some of it won't work. They'll think it's funny in their head and you read out loud. And you're like, maybe this doesn't really work. Or it's very fun, but you can't use it for the show. It doesn't match the host voice or you need to use some video clip. You can't clear legally, whatever. But I would still just rather hear everyone's ideas.

You did an interview in 2022 with Northwestern magazine where you were there for the writing program after William and Mary. And you said that there were some days where I will turn in 50 monologue jokes and none of them will make it to air or I will have a day where two or three get on and I'll be like, nailed it. Does the anxiety ever go away for something like that? Or do you just know it's part of the process? How long did it take you to just kind of relax if you are relaxed there? Oh, well, I would say as a person, I'm literally never relaxed. And that's just me. That's just my DNA. But I would say after the first year, something about hitting the first year. And I don't know why. Nobody told me I was on probation for a year. But something about hitting the first year just made me take a deep breath and say like, okay, let me step back, see where I'm really. Because also I think the producer brain in me is like, was like, let me see where I'm actually adding value. Because I have years of experience of sketch writing. But that wasn't what I was getting on the air the most. So I just thought like, okay, I can keep turning in sketches. Because what I want to do is help my boss. My boss, at the end of the day, needs the biggest pile of usable material he can get

so that he can build a show. So if I'm more effective at that show in monologue jokes and straight-to-camera pieces where I talk about queer news, you know, I'm Puerto Rican. Sometimes I talk about Latinx news. If I'm more effective in those spaces, I'd rather put my energies there so I'm more of a help. Because if we have somebody who's better at writing sketches, we're just better at writing sketches in Seth's voice. Let me let them handle that.

you know so I think that's that's what kind of helped me take a deep breath but monologue jokes I also just had to look around the room because at first I was like I'm terrible at this and then I would look around the room and be like these are I think the best monologue joke writers in America and some of them are not getting a joke on tonight so it's like oh it's it's a numbers game for everybody monologue jokes are truly I always use this analogy but it's like going to a batting cage but you're not like a major league pitcher or a major league hit or other like it's like going into a batting cage, like you just take swings and you just try to connect. And if I think of a monologue joke and it's halfway coherent, I will always type it. Because you also don't know. You're so deep

in the writing process, you don't know what's funny or not. And often I'll get a joke on that I didn't think was going to get on or I'll think something's gold and it doesn't get on. So I think what I really also try to do as a writer is understand if I have a headwriter who I report to, it's their job to judge the quality of it. My job is to give them volume. Jokes, Seth, can't tell you and Amber Ruffin, which is such a beloved piece. And it's funny to watch Seth how uncomfortable he can be sometimes, not as much anymore. But when you have somebody like Hillary Clinton on with you or Gloria Steinem, are you getting on the phone with them and pitching them jokes? Are you emailing their staff? Are you in their dressing room going over these possible jokes? And is it true that

Hillary actually wanted to do more than just a few? So we have these really incredible segment producers at work. So I don't have to actually do. Amber and I are not actually like communicating with the guests ahead of time. But what we might do is look at the schedule because we can see who's ahead on the schedule and I might see somebody and be like, ooh, I wonder if they want to do jokes. Seth can't tell. So we will ask, first of all, ask, you know, one of our bosses say, hey, is it okay if we ask? And then our talent department will go out and ask them. They might send them a link to previous ones if they're not familiar. And if that person says yes, then what we'll do is we'll write jokes, a pile of jokes for them.

we'll submit a couple at a time. You know, if they choose one, great. If they don't, then we'll send them like maybe two or three more. And we'll just, you know, work. But what's really lovely is I thought the per- Because also, you're not just always submitting to them. The more famous a person is, the bigger staff they have around them. So you're often submitting jokes really to like somebody who works for them.

So I assume probably nobody in the world has as many people working for them as Hillary Clinton. So I thought there's no, it's going to take forever to get a joke through. because you're going to have all these other people who are like nervous and like I don't know if she says this then this we sent her a joke and immediately they said she loves it can she tell more so that that was the fastest approval we ever got on a joke and the only request ever to tell more and I just thought I thought it was so cool and said so much about her as a person because I thought like this lady gets shit all the time for her sense of humor her laugh I thought what a cool brave thing to be like I'm going to tell more jokes so yeah so we wrote two more jokes or her she told three it went over very very well it made her look great it made the show look great can you share with us the listeners maybe a few uh larry sanders ask moments where you were on a late night set backstage or in the offices or there's these a level level guests walking around and things that stand out that would might have you say to yourself shanlin this kind of shanling could have put this on his show possibly i mean i don't i'll be honest

that like being a staff member and performer on the show is very separate from the celebrity guest part so unless i'm performing with a guest i don't tend to interact with them a lot but one thing i do remember is we went into uh hillary's Hillary's Hillary Clinton's dressing room beforehand just to run her talk her through the bit and explain to her how it worked. And she was so gracious. I couldn't believe. Because again, this is far and above the most famous person, you know, I mean, one of the most famous people in the world, let alone that I've ever met. And she just was so easy and lovely and gracious about it. And very lovely to like take direction. Like she's, you know, like that's, she could have been like, no, no, we're doing it this way. And I would have been like, anything you

want. You used to be secretary of state. Yes. But for her to be like, okay, and then where do you want me to look and what do you want me to do? Like, I just was really taken aback by, like, how casual all of it was. It was really lovely. And then one time right after the U.S. Women's National Team won the World Cup in 2019, I did that Monday at work I did on camera, like a recap of it, like a little comedic, like recap, where it was supposed to be a recap of the World Cup, but then I just recapped all the gay things that happened. And so it was like a straight-to-camera bit where Seth was like, you know, here with a report about the World Cup is Jenny. And then it was just like, and then this girl's dating this and this person, but whatever.

So, but Megan Rapino was a guest on the show that night. So Mike Shoemaker came to me, he's like, hey, you should go introduce yourself to Megan Rapino and just let her know you're going to be doing this bit because it's going to be playing on a monitor in her dressing room. So when she sees somebody start to say her name, it might feel weird. Like, it might be like, is this person about to make fun of me? So he's like, just as a courtesy, go say hello, say, hey, I'm going to be doing a bit, but it's going to be all compliments.

Like, don't sweat it. but I don't I get nervous talking to famous people I'm always like oh I'm going to put my foot in my mouth it's going to be weird so I but I made myself do it because my boss told me too and she same thing so gracious I was like I'm going to do this bit thank you for being here tonight we're all so excited I'm going to do this bit about the World Cup but I promise it's going to be all compliments and she said great I love compliments um so I did the bit and then she was so lovely I came I walked backstage right after it was done, and she was back there and she high-fived me, which was very cool. That's great to hear. What are your takeaways? A few, looking back when you were the executive

producer of the Amber Ruffin Show, 36 episodes, three seasons, Emmy nominated. Looking back, what did you learn what stands out? I think I really, like I said, it really, it really solidified a lot of ideas I had about how to run a show. Like, I really learned the value of hearing other people's, just getting, letting other people bring in their, their own thing that is from the center of their heart. I think I learned a lot about, like I said, like, creating a safe workplace where people, because, like, I had somebody bring in an interpretive dance and pitch it. And it was so funny, but like, you have to feel really good at work to be like, what if we did this interpretive dance? And it was so great because it ended up being like a dream ballet sequence,

you know, like in like 1950s musicals where they would do a dream ballet, like one of the main characters like having a dream sequence, but it was Amber dancing with a hypodermic needle because the vaccine had just been discovered and she was dreaming about getting vaccinated. And it was such a cool, but like I think what I learned is like, yeah, let please, like create an environment where I can, you can bring me your weirdest most outside the box pitch because some of them are so lovely and such sources of joy. How present was Lauren Michaels and meetings are on set? Because his name is on the show. obviously he has so many other

responsibilities and so many other shows. Yeah, no, it wasn't like a direct involvement. It was like Professor Emeritus. Yeah, I mean, that absolutely happens. But yeah, you did, you were in 8G, which was great on Fridays, and Ellen Waggetter's design the set I worked with her before. She had a great set of Alan.

Yes, she's been, she isn't she phenomenal? She definitely should be recognized for her contribution on late night and her set designs. So what she did was the thing that allowed, us to do that show is we had to keep it, the budget very small. So what they did was we filmed at, uh, in a studio 8G where late night does not film on Fridays. So Ellen designed a set that folded up during the week and went into storage. And then they unfolded it in front of Seth's set. So it was like, I don't know, like transformers, but for a set. And it just went in

front of, it stood in front of Seth's set so that we didn't have to have our own studio. We didn't have to pay for our own studio. We'd have like it just, they unfolded it and put it. And put in front of Seth set. It was so smart and cool. You and Seth and a bunch of people on Seth's staff started in Chicago. What do you think that that did? I mean, Conan had a bunch of Chicago people as well, but a lot of shows, like you never saw that on Latterman. I guess they didn't have as much sketch involvement on or other shows, but that Chicago, that, I don't know, just all that experience of Chicago, what do you think that brings to the show, if anything? I think the Chicago vibe is very specific. And even I've lived here now in New York for 16 years and I still find myself

gravitating towards people who are from the Chicago comedy scene, even if we weren't there at the same time, because they have a certain mindset and way of working that I really connect with and I love. I think that a couple things have come from from cutting your teeth in Chicago. One is that there is no industry in Chicago really to speak of. So you're not going to get discovered, I mean, with a few exceptions, you're not going to get your big break in Chicago. People aren't coming to every show you do to come and pluck you a way to start up. And so in a way, it allows you to not get distracted by the career and fame part of it too soon, or potential career and fame part of it, it allows you to focus for the first few years of your career on

just getting good, I'm just trying to get as good as you can. And the most you could possibly win from that is the respect of your peers, which in a weird way is kind of what every comedian wants most. So I think what I really appreciate about people from Chicago is they're just trying to do a good job. they're not thinking like how do I make this slick how do I make this marketable they're trying to make something good and then the other thing is I think like Chicago when I was coming up in Chicago no improvisers did stand up everybody just did improv and and so it creates this really like this group project kind of mentality this this yeah like not to sound corny but this yes and mentality this idea that's when I'm working with other people from Chicago if somebody says something nobody in the room's like that's dumb that won't work everybody just immediately is like okay okay that could work what if then also we add this and what if we add that and it's just it creates this really great environment where it's safe to pitch ideas people help you with your ideas you help them with theirs it's just a very specific fantastic mindset and work style and um like john lutz is on our staff and he amber and i tend to work together a lot

because all three of us kind of tend to approach things in that way your junior year of william and mary you are witness to the second city touring company and behold you moved to chicago you didn't know that you said it was possible to have of comedy as a job and you got hired and while you were part of the company I was reading some old newspapers I did some research and you said it was your dream job so it's kind of fun to go back and I mean it to get that is so hard and so much competition to even get the touring company but talk a little bit about that everybody I think other than I could be off this Tina Faye like one of the only people in the last 30 years that didn't go through

the touring company but no she toured she toured she did yes what I like about touring is I don't know Tina and I know that she toured and I know which of the three companies she was in oh wow okay no touring is um I mean I loved it because you got to perform live sketch comedy it combined two things that I love comedy

and road trips like you got to get in a van five other comedians go on a road trip sometimes a very long one go to some place you've never been before do a show, a sketch show, often one that has been road tested so you know it's going to hit, you know, you have 45 minutes of free time before the show. So I don't know, some people would nap. I would like run out and be like, what can I see of the city in 45 minutes? Because I may

never be here again. So for three years, I performed in 38 different states. I saw the book depository. I saw, you know, I saw Temple Square in Salt Lake City. I saw, you know, uh, uh, The largest six pack of beer in La Crosse, Wisconsin. Like, I just went around and saw America. And then also while I was doing it, got to perform night after night sketch comedy and really just being on your feet in front of all kinds of audiences that come from all kinds of backgrounds in all kinds of venues.

Really, really helped me figure out what works and what doesn't. That's when you did the USO tour. You did Bosnia and Kosovo as well. That's right. We did a maybe two-week tour to Bosnia. Kosovo and then one U.S. O base in Germany. You've been performing

a lot and we're going to get to that in a second but talk about late night trash can. This is all, when you've done this before, this is all rejected material from the Seth Writers. Yeah. No, it's actually not Seth Writers. It's specifically just I'll invite writers from a bunch of different shows.

But it's a show I started doing a long time ago but it's really part of it. I started doing it before I wrote it at late night with Seth Myers partly because I had been doing so many submission packets and I had all this material and I felt like something that's good and it just lives on my laptop. So I started, I did a show where myself and a bunch of other writers got up and read stuff that had been rejected.

And then about a year and a half ago, sometime around the time of the writer's strike, I was at home, feeling severely at home. And I thought, I want to get out of the house. And so I thought, let me bring this idea back. and I started doing it at Littlefield in Brooklyn, and I invited writers from a bunch of other shows because I thought, you know, there's one thing we all have in common

is we all have a bunch of stuff sitting on our computer. And like I said before, writing for a lateness show is all about volume, right? So things will get rejected for all kinds of reasons that have nothing to do with them not being funny. Everybody I know has a ton of actually genuinely funny material on their laptop that just didn't get chosen for their show. So many times, so often it's just really because of real estate.

Like you have three hours worth of good material, you have an hour and a half show. So I just sort of inviting people from different shows to come and read stuff that they really are partial to that just never saw the light a day. And it's so lovely. It's so fun. And it's like some of the things get rejected because they're like too dirty for TV. Or they just like, I've had pieces where it's like you write it and then you're about to produce it and write before you do the news story changes and it's no longer relevant. Or it requires a prop that's too expensive or whatever.

But it's so fun to get those things out in the open and let people see them. And then part of the show is I always take a moment and have all the writers sit down and ask them, a few questions about things they've learned from rejection, reasons they've had things rejected, and I think it gives people kind of a fun look behind the curtain into that process. You're doing a show in Brooklyn this Saturday, June 28th at Union Hall. By the time that people actually are listening to this, it'll be over. But we're going to do a piece on Late Nighter previously so people know about this. And you have some other shows we're going to talk about coming up as well. But this is, Jenny Hagel gives advice. How did this start? And what is in store for

this show because it's kind of taken its life on its own. You've had some really famous people that have participated. Yeah, this show is so much fun to do. So I, in real life, a, for better or for worse, a part of my personality is that I constantly give people advice that they did not ask for. I cannot stop myself from doing it. I'm sure everybody around me wishes I could. But I just have a personality, not even from a condescending point, but if I have a thing that I think would help you, I have to blurt it out. And so I just want somebody who I was always trying to give people advice. And I just kind of got this idea. I thought it'd be really fun to do a little show. But I really wanted to do something live and something that didn't require a lot of prep and

something where I could like spend an hour with either a comedian that I know and want to have a chance to perform with or somebody I'd like to get to know. So I started the show and the way it works is when, you know, when audiences come in, there are four buckets on stage that say love advice, financial advice, job advice, and then one of them is labeled dares. And the audiences get blank index cards and a pen when they walk in and they can write down questions that they want advice on, put them in the corresponding bucket. They want to write a dare that they want me to do. They can put that in the bucket. And then for the rest of the show, myself and a guest, pull things at random out of those buckets and we answer those questions and give advice. We really do our best

to give good advice. It's, you know, my guests are almost always comedians. So, you know, we also try to do it in a funny way. But we really do give it our best shot. And at the end of the show, for like the last 10 minutes or so, I bring a real actual therapist on stage and they give us feedback on whether or not our advice was good. And then at the end, they give us a letter grade on our advice. I love that. You're also going to be at Joe's Pub on July 26th here in New York City, and then you're going to be in August. You're going to be in Chicago doing that show. Who are some of the special guests that you've gotten? I saw that you got Alex Moffat, who was on Saturday Night Live for many years, and then you've had some incredible

yeah, I've had Lori Hernandez, the Olympic gymnast, Justin Guarini, America's Sweetheart from Broadway and American Idol. John Lutz has done it. Desi Lidick from The Daily Show. I've really been Jeff Hiller, Murray Hill. It's really been fortunate to have some fantastic people. This Saturday, it's going to be Shantir Jackson, who a lot of people know from Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me.

She's a really accomplished TV writer. But I think people might know her voice from Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me, and she's just so funny. How is your book going that's going to come out next year, advice no one asked for? Thank you for asking. It is a draft two is complete. So we're kind of in the tiniest bits of editing. But yeah, that was a really fun other way to channel this weird part of my personality. Yeah, no, I think that's super exciting that you're doing all this.

Thank you so much for coming on. I've been wanting to meet you and talk to you in so long. When your book comes out, I hope you come back. I would love to. Thank you. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss. an episode on Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to

late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday.