Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Jim Pitt Part 2

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

Music producer Jim Pitt returns to discuss his years working with Conan O'Brien including stories about U2 and David Bowie and his current work on Jimmy Kimmel Live.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by Late Nighter.com. Today's episode continues my conversation with late night music producer Jim Pitt. We talk about his years working with Conan O'Brien and his current work on Jimmy Kimmel Live. Now, it's time to go inside late night. At the end of the 92-93 season, and you have Robert leaves to do a smikele leaves to do Conan. You have Jack Handy, the Turner's. Christine Zander leaves.

At that point, did you know when you went to the Rainbow Room press conference with Conan in 93 when they were announcing him as host? When you showed up to that and you weren't even invited, you just showed up, did you know you were leaving at that point? Or was it just like, I am interested? I was interested. And I saw them. So the whole lead up to that was.

It was interesting. Of course, Conan being involved was so unlikely. And of course, that was such a happy ending. But even Dave leaving, you forget that it was still sort of up in the air, right up to the day they announced. Like, he may stay, you know, NBC may retain him. And I think it was like a Thursday afternoon or whatever. There's, you know, all of a sudden there's a press conference and it's on our feed in the building and Howard Stringer and like, and they're, they're introducing Dave. And I just remember seeing that on the monitor in the conference room on the night floor and just being sort of deflated like, oh, you know, that hurt because he was such an NBC guy and it's what's it going to mean and all that. And then fast forward a couple

months and Conan emerges as the most unlikely candidate and he gets the gig and I was friendly with Conan and, you know, he'd left, of course, to the Simpsons by then. But I had a great relationship with him and Robert. And so at the Rainbow Room press conference, they were in a little waiting area. It was either just before or just after. And I went up and said, hi. And I said, this is amazing. Congratulations.

I would love to work with you guys. And they're like, great, let's talk. And then, you know, they were swept off somewhere else. And that's how it started. And, and, Lauren had brought on Jeff Ross to be Conan Z.P. along with Robert, and so I met with... I went to Lorne and asked his for his blessing, and he gave it to me.

He said, oh, I had such plans for you here, which always kind of made me laugh. I had been sort of jealous of Sheila Rogers at Letterman because she booked such cool music for whatever it was, four or five nights a week, four nights a week. And I thought it would be a lot more fun to do a wide variety of things. And so I talked to Jeff, and I was one of the first people on the knife floor, like July, I think, of 93.

How much of a decision did you have with Max Weinberg in this band getting the permanent job? Because they auditioned. I understand there were some other musical group that auditioned. There were. Yeah, I was right in the middle of that. Probably I arranged a lot of those auditions and solicited submissions. And there were a few others. John Lurie and the Lounge Lizards probably, I don't know if they, That's well known, but they were, they auditions. That's what I was going to ask, if there was anybody else, like, a name. Yeah. John Zonar's put together a little band.

He was, he, you know, took a run at it. And so we had all these auditions over at SIR and Max and Jimmy put together, you know, a band of guys from New Jersey. And it went back and forth. There was definitely a faction in the Broadway video world that thought John Lurie was the way to go, but I don't think Conan vibed as much with him as he did with Max.

I think the feeling was that might paint you into a vibe that might be a little less flexible and just might not be Conan's thing. John was obviously very cool

choice, but it might have run its course. And I don't think John would have wanted to do it full time, you know, for a long time. He did write the theme song, though, or he and Howard Shore got official credit for it, but that was a song that they did in their audition, you know, but da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-oh, wow. So Howard Shore was it the audition, or he had just co-wrote that piece? Howard Shore was involved in the choice. You know, Lauren sort of brought his whole team, his whole Broadway video team to bear on it. You know, so Eugene Lee initially was involved in the set and Howard was involved. I worked with him and a guy named Jim Biederman

at Broadway Video on the auditions. And I think there are probably three other bands who played for us. But I think Max, I was going to say, I think they just presented, it just felt like that would work for Conan on a number of levels. Was it decided that there would be no rock rule that the show didn't want to do what Paul Schaefer was doing with his ban because that would have been the most logical thing as to maybe that's what the younger people wanted. But you were all trying to do something different, but was that a rule, no, what rule? That you weren't going to go with, okay, I'll give you an example. When I went to the show and I was going right, almost right away, Max Weinberg and the band came

up for the warm up. They're playing in 1936 or 1935 Irving Berlin, cheek to cheek, written for Fred Astaire. And you're trying to get the younger, younger people. And it just was not the obvious choice to go to. And I'm just was wondering if that was not even an option to try to go make the obvious choice. Oh, for the house band. Yeah, for the house band. You know, I just think that the thought was also Conan and Robert really were thinking classic.

You know, they put putting Conan in, like what they described is like Dick Van Dyke. suits, you know, with a skinny tie and sort of the classic look. And I think that kind of band was sort of a nod to the Tonight Show work as Doc Severnson. It was a smaller version, certainly. So I think that was it too, trying to keep that tradition going. But then we certainly, with the choices of music guests, took it in many other directions. That was unbelievable. I mean, even on the test shows, who did you have for music? Other than Cheryl Crowe who did a test show, they did a bunch of them. Cheryl Crow did a test show.

We had a band called The Indians who ended up doing, they were on one of the, well, what became one of the universal labels. But yeah, they had an album out at the time. So they did a test show. I think we only did two musics on the test shows. So it was Cheryl Crow and the Indians, both of whom were on the regular show soon after. But yeah, the Cheryl Crow won on a test show is a great thing to hang your hat on, too. because, you know, it's a great, obviously, she's a great artist.

And then you have her early on, and then she's on the first week of the Tonight Show when Conan takes over for the Tonight Show for the brief tenure. Yeah. I love that. We had a few carryover things. I mean, the Tony Bennett tradition, we carried that on. Yes, every December, right? Yeah, Tony Bennett, in my mind, you know, we, the first few months, it's no secret.

We're, you know, up and down and a little bit of a struggle. booking wise and music not so much because I could go super left field and do cool stuff and it was more like the lead guest situation was tough so anyway in December Tony Bennett you know I was able to book Tony Bennett and he was a the lead talk guest and music and this is just my very own opinion but I felt like when he did it it kind of was a blessing from a showbiz legend that I don't know it felt to me like okay we're in the we're in showbiz now you know this is great and and then of course two months later Dave comes on and that changed everything that was unbelievable I loved watching that progression and then I was there that

summer when Conan first finally got confidence I mean the college audiences and stuff and I was there and I could see that it was he was a different guy and the show definitely had a different energy which was unbelievable. You said in Vanity Fair that there were bands early on that you relied on. They might be giants were a phone call away. They were in Brooklyn, definitely some last-minute calls. Who were some of the other bands that you had at your disposal maybe to have on if you needed somebody last minute?

Well, they were the big one because they were local. Jonathan Richmond, who also sort of made a statement for us musically because he was sort of a legendary figure, but definitely on the cult side. of things, but it's looked upon as like one of the founders of punk rock. So he loved the experience. He was on, I think, our first or second week. He did our show like seven times in the first three or four years to the point where, I mean,

he was calling us and telling us when he wanted to come on again. And he panelled a few times. And it was very, I don't know if you ever watched any of those interviews, but he's a very awkward guy. So they weren't the smoothest interviews, but it was. It was definitely, so he was someone that we relied on a lot. And Bare Naked Ladies were another one who, it wasn't like they were a phone call away, but they were a new band that kind of fit our vibe, kind of nerdy.

Yeah, man, it was just such a great period for alternative bands and new bands and artists. And so it was a real mix of like Les Paul and, you know, urge overkill on, you know, back-to-back nights. It was a lot of, a lot of, kind of like your podcast. There's a lot of people who aren't around anymore, and it was really cool to get them. I love that you had on that first season, Mel Tourmet came on and, you know, just, yes, the old school, because they would get, you know, Steve Allen or a Sid Caesar, but in terms of a music person, not necessarily that they would get a old school crooner. Mel Tourmet was great. It would be, Paula Davis, my dear friend, and, you know, Conan's still Booker. And she and I started SNL on the same day

in 86. We still laugh about, you know, there's certain guests who, you know, would have a certain style or have a line that, of course, some of them are notorious now. There was talk of geribles, you know, Mickey Rooney. Mel Tourmet had a thing where, yeah, he's a classic showbiz guy. And I don't know what to ask him a question. And he's saying, like, how long have he been doing this for? And he'd say, well, Conan, I've been doing this for, wait for it, 45 years. And he went to wait for it like two or three times in his interview, which is, I don't know, it made us laugh. I love the fact that some of these people like Steve Allen and Sid Caesar were not probably, you know, getting on network television and that they were able to do this.

I know that you had on, I remember show number two, Mary Tyler Moore and Radiohead. And then you had green Day and all these people. When they came in like a radiohead or Green Day, was it, could you just tell that they were going to blow up? They were popular, but not to the extent. I mean, it was, wasn't that their first album, Radiohead? It was. And Green Day. We did so many artists, like, you know, four or five, depending on how many nights around a week. They all had a hit of the moment. And I don't think you could necessarily tell or that Weezer was going to, you know, be around for so long. And I wish I could say, you know, I had the foresight to book Radiohead. It's like Conan loved that song and they, I was able to get them on that show.

And, you know, it's, it's obviously a great legacy and a great first musical guest. If you don't count Tony Randall singing Edelvite. Oh, yeah. At the end of show number one. You did an interview and this was, for me, it was fascinating because it didn't ever occurred to me because you watch Radiohead on show too. And there's a television screen. oh right yeah yeah yeah see it's just um i don't know you stock footage more or less never occurred

to me that you would have the ban actually pick out what that stock footage would be shown behind them that was an idea of it was either robert or or robert and conan together and it was like yeah let's just put like random footage behind them and we ended up giving them a list of stock footage options that we had. And so for the first, it probably lasted four or five months. They would choose it. And it was like classic dentist office footage or, you know, cars being assembled or just really random stock footage, which I think probably got expensive and we just moved away

from it. But it was something different. And at first, it was just this big, hung drop like Radiohead. It's a pretty unsightly thing behind them, you know, that that footage is on. And they chose cars driving around slowly in a circle. And then about a month later, like the designers put together like a more stylish sort of screen on an angle. So, yeah, it was just, they wanted to do something that was just presented it a little differently. And I thought it was a fun idea.

It was definitely fun and different. I want to talk about some of the guests the first year. that had enough leverage to be able to do music. Oh, my God. David Faustino was one who, I mean, he needed guests. And I mean, married with children, I believe it was still on. So it's basically like, I will come on, but you're going to let me rap. Well, there were a few, and there are a few that we still can laugh about.

Sybil Shepard was one. I was there. Oh, you were? Oh, I was there. I couldn't believe it. In my head, I was like, there is no way they're going to let her sing. She said, I'm coming on, I'm singing. And then tell me if I have this wrong.

I have a memory that there was a band on after that at the end of the show. And it was her boyfriend's band, but I could be off on that. Oh, okay. I think you're conflating her with Kathleen Turner. Oh, was it Kathleen Turner that did that? Okay. Her boyfriend, Jay, something, or other, her husband. It's rude.

I just can't remember the name. He had a band called, like, the stockbrokers or some name like that. And she, I think, did a song with them. And Sybil Shepard did a song called Talk Memphis to me. I was there. Oh, man. And Kathleen Turner. Faustino.

Did a song. Faustino. Oh, there are a couple of others, too. Who? Well, there was Katie Segal. She sang. She was going out with the musician. I think it was a drummer or something.

Right, right. I remember that she was during that. I didn't know that. Yeah. And then there are a couple that weren't, it was not in exchange for a lead guest, but one of my favorites, because this ended up being a memorable appearance,

but was Ted Williams did the show. and the way that he got on was his son called me one day he was kind of notorious guy John Henry Williams who he passed away yeah and it turned out that you know he was like treating Ted like a slave like signing stuff and whatnot never mind the all the frozen you know the cryogenics and all that stuff

but um he called and said I'm managing this band called the Pat McGuire band and if you'll book them I'll get my dad to do the show and you know Conan grew up in Brookline and literally in the shadow of the lights from Fenway Park from his house so we were like no why not

how bad can they be you know and so they had a record and it was five so they did the show and then Ted Williams came on and uh no I say memorable just because you didn't see Ted Williams on a lot of talk shows Oh, he did later with Bob Costas, and I think that that might have been it. He didn't, he was, didn't do a lot of it. And that was to plug his book. Right. So that was a, that was a quid pro quo. But that did not happen very often, I have to say. But yes, you're right about the guests who, oh, here's another one. Connor and I've recently mentioned Chris Jagger did the show, Mick Jagger's brother. And that was a call. Sounds made up. I was a call. I'm sure it's not made up. No, that was a call from upstairs.

Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but, you know. Chris, how was Chris Jagger? Not great. It was, how much have you heard of Chris Jagger since then? Oh, here's another one. Roger Clinton.

Oh, my goodness. Yeah, yeah, Roger Clinton performed. And I can't remember what I guess, I'm guessing he sang. I've got all, it's all on my computer here, but... He was infamous at the time. Yeah, he was. He might have been a sit-down with Letterman, too. I think he was at one point, but he was kind of with Billy Carter a little bit, but not as much.

Yeah, not, yeah, he wasn't as wild as Billy Carter, but he, he, um, Roger Clinton. And I'm sure if I think of any others, I'll send him your way, because that was definitely a thing, you know? That's so fascinating. And I always wanted to know about that. Lauren that first year really wasn't going through his rolodex too much to get people booked on the show. I mean, the only person I know that was hosting SNL that week when you started that came down was Jeff Goldblum. You know, now it's like if you're on, you're doing Fallon, you might maybe Seth Myers and it's, but back then, you know, I know that, you know, Paul Simon and stuff maybe not wasn't necessarily who, you know, you were booking, but it's still, it's Paul Simon. You know, it's Steve Martin

And you want Oh, no, we would have taken them with open arms But no But he wasn't He would get the cast members to come down And do it But he wasn't pushing He really wasn't offering

Personal bookings Is that fair to say? I know the first Of course the first show is such a big deal And I know he helped with Drew Barrymore And John Goodman I believe

And George Went But But no No, no, we struggled. I mean, there's no question. It was, I always like to cite one of the low points being the day that, like, Bob Denver canceled day up. Because he lived on a mountain in West Virginia and it was snowing or something. I can't remember what it was.

I just remember, Alec Baldwin came in in December, and I couldn't believe they, you guys got such a, at the time, a big A-list. Right, right. And he wasn't hosting SNL, but I just, to me, I was just like, it's not Al Roker. who was coming on to do the show all the time. Yeah, yeah. And the very good guest, by the way, and entertaining, but Alec, and then I remember that. I don't know if you even remember this story or not,

but Christian Slater was hosting SNL, and he wouldn't come down to do Conan's show, but he went down to meet Shatner because he was a big Star Trek fan or say hi. And Conan was on with, years later, with Slater and talking about it. And he's like, yeah, you remember, yeah, you didn't come do my show.

Because nobody that was an A-lister was really doing it. I mean, it's strange to think about. We had to educate the whole industry, really, about who he was and everything. And then, you know, we come out of the box with some very different kind of comedy and stuff. And so people were not lining up at first. And it was, you know, once that changed, it was great. Of course, I remember when it changed and it was so excited and they feel like Conan and Andy really found their voice. The writing was there from day one. At what point do you start calling Paul McGinnis? Because you finally get you two on in 2005. And this is like a dream, you know, probably with Conan's two to get you two on. When do you start the calls to, and I'm guessing that's who you're calling? No, I was dealing with Lori Earl at Interscope Records, really. Okay. So you're not, you don't go to the manager. It's going to the record label. I would say that 90% bookings go through publicists. Yeah. But relationships with managers are obviously a huge thing too. You know, we tried.

We kind of made the token effort every time they had a record. And then she called me one day. I think we got the reputation because we had done a week with the white stripes. And we had done a month of Mondays with the strokes when they were the hottest band around. So we got a reputation, I think, for doing things that maybe Letterman wouldn't commit to or other shows where, you know, they wanted multiple days or so she called and said, like, what would you think about a whole show with you too? And so in that case, like I'd love to say I was a hero, but I, you know,

I just kind of guided it to its completion. And that was an amazing, that was an amazing day. You were heralded in the press. I mean, they gave you full credit. I mean, variety, Hollywood Reporter, other places were like Jim Pitt. I mean yeah well I'll take it what was that day like I mean to get someone like Larry Mullen to do a comedy bit I'm like he's kind of saying no but he totally was they were up for it here's how that week worked it's like I remember like Jeff Ross our whole team got very

activated YouTube we got no details from you to until I want to say the day before like they were in but we didn't have their ears yet. And so a lot of stuff came together at the last minute. All we knew is we were doing a whole show and we had all these ideas and that they were doing, I think, four songs. That was it. Once they were there, they were 100% focused and a lot of it came together that day. And it was a, like you said, it was a fun show. It had a spontaneity. Conan was great with them. And they had a blast. They stuck around for a long time after. They opened, champagne they gave me and Jeff Ross their special edition iPods signed by all of them afterwards. And then it was all mixed by Edge. And he was there, like had our engineers there, I think until the show was being fed, you know, at 1215 or whatever, or fed live at 1230. That was an amazing experience.

And then I think this was the order happened. Like a month later, Neil Young does the show for a week. So that was the fall of 05, I believe. I do want to point out that you or Jimmy Kimmel Live. And when you got there in 2017 in, I think it was April, the very next month you got you two on for the very first time on Kimmel. So I'm guessing, you know, you're coming in and you have these relationships. So are you able to get the other acts such as you two that had never done based on your

relationships? No, I will say, I have to give all credit. The U-2 talks were already in motion at Kimmel. So it looked, you know. It looked good. It looks good. It looked like you did it. And I'll take it. But, you know, I think when you're there and you're the Booker, there are times when it comes across the transom and there are times when you bust your ass for it.

And I think you deserve equal credit, you know, because you are running the thing. that in that case mac burris who's a dear friend and co-worker at kimmel and he does sort of the john zon artist thing there he had that i already had that teed up and ready to go and the folks are nasty little man you know the publicity firm already had that in the work so um i was fortunate enough to be there because i was an awesome performance they there was a lot of disappointment on the kimmel side because they weren't they weren't willing to do a big close down the Hollywood Boulevard, you know, kind of look. But I thought they did an acoustic in the studio, a version of still haven't found what I'm looking for. And to me, that's magical. Now, that was another great one. But, yeah, back in 05, I think that's, I think that was White Stripes, U2, Neelium.

It was just a really fertile time. And then, yeah, we became just a real destination for that kind of thing. yeah it was a lot of fun it's amazing and then one person i know you really wanted that just doesn't really do almost anything is bob dillon are you contacting jeff rosin his manager are you going through his record and how often are you just checking in to see it maybe if dylan's going to do something because you never know and you have to ask yeah you never you never know i'm so he's got two managers he's got jeff rosen and jeff kramer jeff kramer also manages paul simon And his son, Matthew Kramer, worked for us at Conan and at TBS.

So I know Jeff fairly well, and he's the one I would talk to. And like you said, every once in a while, you know, like at Kimmel, we were talking about the outdoor stage. And he's like, well, you know, could Bob just pull the bus up and come off and do it? And, you know, so he entertained it. But, you know, that's such a long shot. we've been working on a Paul Simon booking and I got it to the point where he was doing one of our Brooklyn shows two years ago

and he was doing the show on Friday and on Wednesday he tested positive for COVID and he's like one of Jimmy's number one guy so that was that was very disappointing but you know let's show biz yeah things happen sometimes but yeah Paul Simon amazing performer If you're okay to say it, who are some of the musical groups or the singers that were not comfortable doing comedy bits for Conan that were presented to them as possibly?

Oh, boy, that's a good way to ask. I mean, you kind of forget the ones who say it, who pass because we went out to a lot of people. I mean, yeah, so I don't know if I can even come up with a good list, but I like to focus my favorite musician doing comedy, I think, David Bowie. Oh, yes. Just, you look at that stuff and he was so committed. The secrets. Secrets.

And his panel had a lot of bits in it, too. You know, he sang a little, sang a little hickory-dickory doc as David. He just had a child, I think, and was singing a nursery rhyme. And his appearances were just magical. But we'd go out to him, Mike Sweeney and I still laugh about this. We would present all sorts of. ideas to Bowie. But, you know, people do stuff when they're promoting something. You know, it's very rare that anybody is going to come on sort of out of cycle and just do it. It's just

not the way it happens. As much as people like to think, you know, oh, we just thought I'd stop by. You know, that rarely happens if ever. But we pitched so many, Sweeney had so many ideas for Dave and Bowie. And the response would from Mitch Schneider, who was his publicist at the time, would just be, he's not in performance mode. And so that became almost like a a joke between Sweeney and I. You know if Bowie's in performance mode? We have this idea. We want to pitch.

And, you know, some of the ideas, I mean, I will admit, I'd look at them and be like, okay, you know. Some I would give full-throat an endorsement to in my pitch, and then some, I would say, the writers have asked me to send along this idea. You never know. Working at Conan for so many years, did you have to just start wearing earplugs for music?

at SNL, are you just a good hearing and you don't have to worry about that? Oh, no, it has, coincidentally, I've had issues with one of my ears and I've had a number of surgeries on it that aren't related to noise or loud music, but whether it's the surgeries or the combination of just every day being exposed, it's definitely taking the toll on my hearing, but I've worn earplugs probably for 10 years now, every day at work and every show I go to, probably longer. custom ones for a long time and those make a bit, you know, you get a mold. It's kind of like those in-air monitors that musicians wear. That's great that you do that. At what point do you

tell Conan that you would want to work remotely and just come in maybe once, every month, maybe for a week? It was around 1996 and we had had two children. My wife and I lived in Scarsdale in a co-op up there and we're just at the point where we, you know, needed more room and I don't know, for some reason, I felt like we had to either move further out of the city or find somewhere else to live. And I didn't really have a better plan except just staying in New York, staying where we were. So my sister lived in Nashville and it was really the only place we looked and we liked it there so we decided we were going to move to Nashville and I would leave the show which I know it's crazy to think of now because I ended up I've been doing this for so long and I met with Jeff

we went to have lunch on the seventh floor commissary to talk about who he get to replace me and just off the top of my head I literally hadn't even thought about this ahead of time I said well what if I you can I'll take a cut in salary which I know is what really appealed to him and I'll keep doing it remotely. And he said, yeah, well, as long as you come back, maybe a week a month or I don't remember how we settled on that. So that's how it started. And they flew me up and put me up every month for a week.

And it's kind of incredible in retrospect, and it really was sort of the forefront of remote work. But, you know, there was no Zoom to watch the show on. You know, I had to record it and watch it and just take the word of whoever was doing. doing that job. It was Debbie won, you know, the Zonar's job. It was Debbie Wonder for a long time. And then Rowe Herschavitz. Yeah, Rory's great. I really like that guy. Yeah, Rory's a great guy. And then just asked them, like, all, how did it go? And I was sort of, so it was central time. So it was at like 5.30 central, I would sort of just always worry, like, Jeff's not calling. is he like because every once in a while something went wrong I'd get a call but more often than

not everything was fine there you know there are there were a couple of incidents that I was asked about and asked to explain but but no so that's the thinking that went into it and that the kids both grew up in Nashville my daughter is now a booker at the Ryman auditorium there so she is carrying on the family business my son lives in Chicago he's a barfender there and was Second City the other night seeing a show. So they've both taken a little bit of my past there. But yeah, so that was an interesting move. And I did that, and it's crazy.

I did that for 13 years. And then when Conan got the Tonight Show, Jeff said, you really need to be there full time. So I moved out here and I've been here ever since. You know, and that was a whole other experience, as you well know. Yeah. When you were in Nashville, when did you start booking a theater? You were booking music acts. Oh, yeah. And how did that come about? That was 2002 to 2004. I did it for a couple of years. So it's this great local theater called Belcourt, which is now sort of a legendary spot in Nashville.

And they were struggling a little bit at the time. There had been a campaign to save it. It was slated to be torn. down and a community group got together and saved it. One of the people on the board, a guy named Scott Mansler, approached me and asked me if I would consider like putting some shows in there. It intrigued me and I had, you know, I had a little bit of time and thought, that could be fun. And, you know, it felt little community-minded too, you know, not, I had never promoted a show before. And so with the help of a couple of friends, this guy named Norm Parento, who at the time

was working for Gillian Welsh and David Rawlings and managed old Crowe Medicine show, he helped me, he sent me like an offer. He told me how to do it basically. And he provided some training wheels. And I promoted shows there for two years. And, you know, again, it's almost like the radio head thing, like two months in, I had a show for $12, you could see Nora Jones's first show in Nashville, you know. That was like right before she broke, right? It was right as that album was breaking. It was probably booked as the album was breaking. Yeah, she probably could have played a place three times that size two months later. She was paid. I read an interview with you and you said she got paid $500 for that. Yeah. And only,

a few months later, she's going to be coming back, and what did her rate go up to her manager? Oh, yeah, yeah. She ended up at a much bigger venue and, yeah, that I couldn't afford to... She went from $500 to $50,000 very quickly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, she blew up. So that was fun. That was so much fun. And we had a lot of great, great shows in there, a bunch with Gillian Welsh, Joan Baez, Mary Ann Faithful,

JJ Kale. Yeah, all sorts of people. Yeah, that was a blast. And I loved the people who worked there. So it was a great experience. It was a lot of fun. But then eventually it was like, you're going to have to either learn how to make this

like a real business or like what the... Oh, and the Bellcourt was getting more successful in film. And that's really... And they've since been renovated. and it's just it's a it's a great institution and they were getting so successful booking film that the nights of availability were kind of going away from music so the timing just kind of it worked out that i i kind of stepped aside from it but it was a great experience and and it was fun

to do something where i lived and i learned a lot and a lot of great people came through and uh and yeah it was it was a blast. Were there any singers or band members at SNL or Kona musical guest that sent you a thank you card or called you or anything like that? Once in a while you would get a node. I do remember at SNL someone who and I thought man this this guy was raised you could tell he was taught to do this but after Alec Baldwin hosted the first time like, I don't know how wide it was on the show, but I know everyone in the talent department got an handwritten thank you note, you know, just a personalized note saying thank you for all your help that meant a lot, whatever, blah, blah, blah.

It was his first time, and of course you since went out to become a legendary host. I do remember that vividly, and then, yeah, once in a while you'd get a thank you. I got thank yous from people that were so meaningful to me, and I like to tell stories like this. I was at a club one night in Nashville called The Exit In, very famous venue. I was watching a band, like, it was in my usual spot, you know, and a guy came up to me, and I had booked his band on the show, maybe one of the, like, first year or two. That band didn't really go on too much, and he was a working musician, but he came up to me, and he said, you know, you'll never know how much that meant to my, in my life, you know, to my family, that legitimized

everything I'd been doing up to that point musically and that touched me so much and I've gotten that a couple of times from people and that to me means as much as getting like an iPod from YouTube or whatever because you just you don't you don't realize the impact you know I don't want to say it's a George Bailey mom but it's like it is it's important you know

and and those things really they really touch me and mean a lot to me so I mean, so many people I remember when I was in Hershey, Pennsylvania the ocean blue came on your first season. And we're like, oh my goodness, Ocean Blue. From, yeah, Hershey, they were older than me,

but it was just like, oh, my goodness, they're going to be on national TV on Conan show and big deal. Yeah, it was fun to be in that spot. And then, of course, to hear from people over the years, that's where I discovered so many bands and that. And like, you know, it's not easy for me to pat myself, on the back, but I do love that, and it means a lot to hear that from people, and I soak it up. No, it's amazing. You know, I just did something. This is an aside, but I just, I just did

something with Conan. He headlined the closing day of the Newport Folk Festival, and I came up with a whole concept for a show, and put it together, and I put the band Dawes behind him, and we had special guests, and it killed. It was great. I don't know if you saw it mentioned online anywhere but uh i i saw there was a newspaper article about it they mentioned you in the past two years i've had the opportunity to do some stuff on his serious xm channel and you know it's all on the side from kimmel and no one has complained yet so uh again this is not this is uh tangentially but uh but anyway it's been fun to be back in touch with him and working with him again and and to know and to put a show together for him just sort of knowing his sensibility

so well. Oh, I mean, if anybody knows, it's you. So when the show for TBS, it's going from 60 to 30 minutes, the writing's on the wall, that music, is that when Jill Lederman? I'm guessing it was Jill reached out to you at Kimmel, or who reached out to you? It was actually Jason Schrift, who was another EP there along with Jill. But, you know, they worked in tandem, and Jill was certainly part of that decision, as was Jimmy. And yeah, they'd gotten word through a friend of mine at one of the labels that Conan was going to 30 minutes and they were looking to make a chain in their music booking and, you know, they gave me a place to land with, man, I mean, I've been in this business for so long and been so fortunate and, you know, I'm forever grateful

for them. And it was interesting going over to another show. It was, I will admit, it was a little awkward at first just because, you know, I came from a place where there was a family that had been started 25 years before and then they were a whole, they were a family too, you know, and I was coming in from the outside. But people couldn't have been nicer and I'm part of that family now. And I just feel very fortunate that I was given that opportunity. And Jill, Jill is an amazing producer. I love Joe. We love Jill. Yeah, yeah. You have some, the writers over at Kimmel, I mean, Jesse Joyce is like, I mean, in the top, you know, if you're talking about late night writers, I mean, that guy, Jesse McLaren's where we worked at Colbert. He was an intern

when I was there and some really, just really funny, funny people that are over, how hard was that telling Conan that you were leaving after over two decades or? Well, it was, you know, even though it was really, I don't want to say I pretended, but I did Agon, I was over it a lot and ask anybody who knows me from that or I talked to in that time frame. It was not an easy decision, even though I really didn't have a decision, which is sort of the funny part. I didn't really have a choice.

I mean, I could have tried something else, but so it took me a while to fully sort of convince myself and commit that it was a thing to do, even though it made perfect sense, just emotionally, I think. So I think Jeff and Conan at first were on the surface, like going to another show, I think maybe felt like, oh, man, that's not what we're saying. But I really didn't have much of a choice. You had to. Jeff has since said, you made the right move.

You know, you definitely made them. Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, you saw the TBS show what it became and stuff. And it's like, no, they weren't. There was no room for me. They had to make tough decisions and other people had to leave too. And, you know, it's a business and I get it. And I, you know, but like I mentioned a couple minutes ago, like, I'm so thankful to still be connected with them.

And I mean, they're family. They are, you know, and we have stories of ups and downs and everything else, like all families. And it's, but through it all, it's great to still have good relationships with everyone. Yeah. And you've been at Kimmel now for a while. Seven years. What are a couple of highlights? Like three highlights are things that stand out that you were really proud of or it took you a while to maybe get the book in and it paid off and you were happy? Well, I would just say generally bringing the same kind of sensibility that I had at Conan and they definitely want big names. And I try. I do my best to deliver the big names. But I also try to deliver like high quality bookings. And so I'm very proud of the stuff we do there. And I'm appreciative that Jimmy has Matt,

Mac and trust in Mac and I to deliver. We confer on everything. And, you know, I don't know about three specific names. That's okay. There are many. And there's nothing better to me than booking someone. And then months later, someone's like, oh, what about so and so? I was like, well, they were just on.

there's this great new artist like oh yeah they were on last march or whatever or to have a very cool artist rehearsing and i see some of the writers down and i'm like all right this is you know they they like the good stuff i could tell you know so yeah it's you know Kimmel's got that outdoor stage which is a unique look it's nice i've been over there a couple times to visit yeah yeah the people are outstanding it's yeah so i've been so lucky you know how many pitches do you get on an average day or an average week for people that want to go on, not only from the publicist, the record label, but also, I'm guessing people are sending in demos. How many requests are you getting would you say? Oh, it's constant. I don't know if I could put

a number on it, but I will say like demos and things like that. It's easier to, although it's in, you know, I'd say that. People who have less of a chance of getting on the show, sometimes require more explanation why it's not possible, you know, because they're not, they don't have a publicist doing that work for them. And they want to know, well, you know, I saw this 18-year-old guitar player, Grace Bowers, on the other night. I've never heard of her, you know.

And so some people, you just have to sort of explain, like, well, I know, but she's got a lot going on. And we can't just book someone because we like them. And, you know, there are, you have to defend every booking. the reasons for it. So those sometimes take a little bit of extra time. But pros in the business, if you said, you know, I don't have a spot, or, you know, it's not going to work this time. I mean, they just need an answer.

Yes, and some people that don't even get back to them with nose. Right, right. I know that you're good about that. I try. I try. I'm not always great, but it's overwhelming, especially we just came off, I know, like poor me, we just came off a two-week hiatus. And the volume of stuff just waiting for you is crazy, you know. Other than the 10, you did the 10-year ban contest on Conan, which was the first year,

other than that people sending in stuff, were there any other, any bookings on Conan or maybe Kimmel, where it was somebody that was not signed that just sent in a demo and you listened and they had no representation and you put them on? Well, an example at Kimmel is a woman named, she went, goes by name Lindsay Lab, L-A-B, and she wrote a song, I want to say it was like 2017 or 2018, and it was about, it was, she posted it on YouTube and she played ukulele and it was about, it was sort of a pair, and I, an ironic song about how like boys have it so hard. It was really cleverly done, and it was funny and on point. She didn't, I think someone on the show saw it and said, we should put her on the show. Well, that was the case where she didn't have a rep or I called her home. That's great.

You know, we'd love to have you. And those are amazing, and you fly them in. So there have been a couple of things like that. It doesn't happen often, but those are special. And she was awesome. She was very nervous, but she killed it. We had little kids sitting around her, and yeah, it was, that was great. It's great when you can make dreams like that happen.

Was there anything ever at Conan that was unerable with a music group that you just couldn't air it in the last minute and Sweeney do stand-up or Brian Kylie come on down and we can't air this? No, I don't think there was ever a music performance we couldn't air. I mean, there were definitely some, oh, well, there was. was one that did in there at the Tonight Show, the Tonight Show or TBS, where Conan slipped and fell doing a panel segment. He was chasing someone. I'll have to, shoot, I'm blanking on who it was exactly. Megan Fox? Somebody, there was, they were in bathing suits or something and there was water on the floor. He slipped and banged and hit his head. I don't know if you've heard about this,

But we had to stop the taping. And I had Rodrigo I Gabriela, this great Mexican guitar group. But we had to postpone the show. Conan went and got x-rays. He was fine, a little shaken up. So we shot them and aired them a different night. But as far as, like, quality-wise, no, that's never happened. There was another moment where the band Goldfinger was booked or kind of a punk-star-ish.

band in the 90s. And after the song, it was kind of an exuberant performance. I think it was the drummer went over and like Conan went over to bank them and he went over and hugged him and he picked Conan up and Conan slid over his shoulder and landed on his head. And I think it might be on YouTube. And it was a scary moment. I mean, he landed on his head and anything could have happened.

But he jumped right up and it was clear that he was okay. So unexpected things do happen. but yeah that that was that was a little bit frightening with conan and in jimmy how how often were they giving you suggestions i mean johnny carson was famous uh for not giving suggestions because he said every time he tried uh to suggest somebody if they were not great oh that's funny he would let them decide for the most part once in a while he would come up with a if he saw somebody on tv or a comic or like kinnison jim mcculley wasn't going to book the carson saw kinnison at a restaurant and was like, why aren't you doing my show? It's like, well, Macaulay won't book me.

And it's like, okay. Oh, that's right. That's right. But how often was that with Conan and with Jimmy now? Conan once in a while would say, hey, a friend of mine recommended this band. What do you think? So a couple of things happened that way. Jimmy is certainly active in music, plays with a lot of people. It's great taste. So especially early on, a couple of like Johnny Johnson, who was Chuck Berry's piano player, Jimmy worked with him. him. So we had Johnny on a couple of times. And, you know, that's incredible. And Max, it was the same thing. You know, he, Ed Shaughnessy came and sat in. I was there for one of them. Oh, Matt, well, Max was gone, actually. He was, I mean, he had a Bruce thing of something. And so

he was gone, and Ed Shaughnessy said in. And, uh, and then was mad because Ed Shaughnessy moved his drums around or something. Uh, no, to see Ed Shaughnessy there after Carson retired was incredible. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, we had a few drummers. Earl Palmer, who was this legendary session drummer, sat in once. We had some great sit-ins, too, including Who's Our Writer, who played The Shofar, sitting in with the band. Was it Glazer?

It was Glazer. Glazer played... Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, you know, played it seriously, and, you know, like a musician, was very funny. So, yeah, I would get suggestions every once in a while, which was great. One of Conan's was from his friend. One of his friends had a band who dressed as 14th century Frenchman. The upper crust was their name.

And that was their whole act. They were in powdered wigs and the whole thing. But they were a great rock band. And so that was a fun booking. I think they did the show a couple times. And Robert is a great music guy. too. He had suggestions. And like Jonathan Richmond was a suggestion early on from, I want to say it was either Dino Stamatopoulos or Louis C.K. or Andy, one of those guys. So it was pretty collaborative

early on. Like, if you had an idea, you know, there are other writers, Dave Reynolds, you know, there are other people who had suggestions. Andy, big music guy, so some things definitely came through him. Yeah, we kind of zeroed in on some artists that Coenern just ended up loving, like a band like low straight jackets who nobody knew who they were I mean you know outside of surf music fans knew who they were but they came became sort of regulars on our show you know they performed surf music in Mexican wrestling masks just artists like that that were just a little bit different and fun and quirky uh really fit our our vibe because you know when you're doing like hip you know you don't want to come across as trying to be too hip you know so it was always

fun to do stuff that was just silly too. I always liked, I feel like I could tell sometimes with certain bands where Conan maybe didn't know them and really appreciated them. Like, badly drawn boy, I remember, doing a song and he seemed really maybe moved by and really

appreciated that one. Well, you know, it's funny, it's funny to say that because since I was only there for like one week a month for a number of years, my way of watching it would be on TV and one that might be one of my favorite performances in the history of the show was my morning jacket

the first time they were on oh yeah i've seen them perform live and they did a song called one big holiday and when they finished he came across and i could just tell like he's blown away he'd love that song and he didn't know like we've talked about it on his radio thing like you know it's a volume business and every day he would just see like a name and our rundas and, you know, he didn't know. And then so he would, sometimes he would experience it from his desk, you know, for the first time. That's great. Yeah, they're a live band.

Yeah, yeah. Do you ever go to see concerts anymore just because you're around music all the time? Do you still go out just to see people that you want to see? Like, I'm going out to see Bob Dylan at the Hollywood Bowl. I do. I was away for that, but I do. I was at the bowl last Sunday to see a band. called Chronabin, I think is how you pronounce it.

And I've seen a bunch of things this summer. Yeah, I still, it became easier with the pandemic and everything to stay home. And, you know, momentum sort of slowed a little bit there on going out. But I feel like you really need to do it every so often to stay in the mix. You run into people. And just seeing live music is good, you know. Their longevity is an unbelievable. I mean, in late night with three different shows and the amount of people.

I don't, I can't think of anybody in the history of late night with music that has had even close. Well, Sheila, Sheila has done really well on Letterman and then James Corden. And then she's at Saturday night. She's at S&L, yeah. I guess maybe the two of you are the ones that in the history of the medium that I can really think of. Yeah, I just consider myself really lucky. I still enjoy doing it. there's still a thrill to presenting a new artist.

I had this artist on the other night, Grace Bowers, 18-year-old guitar player, who was phenomenal, and she's going to be a big deal, I think. You've done this, I mean, for so many decades. It's absolutely amazing. Jim Pitt, thank you so much for doing this. I've really wanted to talk to you. I was shocked that Carvey and Spade haven't had you on on their show yet.

I mean, I'm guessing maybe eventually. I mean, somebody that was in the trenches over there, and you know both of them. I'd love to, yeah. It's fun to listen to theirs because there's so many memories of mine that they're talking about, so it's fun. Yeah, I really like it. I have to confess I don't learn a lot about the show sometimes as much. No, I know.

They're not always the... They're not like me. Side note, they're not always the best most prepared. But that's okay. We have different, and I really do like the show. So Jim Pitt, thank you so much. Thank you, Mark. It's been my pleasure.

Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never. miss an episode on Apple podcast, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. So, you know, I'm going to be able to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to I'm going to and I'm going to I'm a lot.

You know, I'm going to be able to be. We're going to be. We're going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be.

You know, I'm going to be the Thank you.