Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Kimmel, Meyers, and Stewart Redraw the Late-Night Map [LateNighter Roundtable Podcast]

Episode Date: December 1, 2025

With late night in flux, three hosts dominated the conversation in November 2025: Jimmy Kimmel, Seth Meyers, and Jon Stewart. Their shows—shaped by political crossfire, personal loss, and a shifting competitive landscape—anchor the latest edition of LateNighter’s Monthly Roundtable, as Bill Carter, Mark Malkoff, and Jon Schneider take stock of the late-night stories that defined November.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the Late Nider Roundtable here on the Late Nider Podcast Network. My name is John Schneider and so excited to be with you this month to talk about all of the biggest stories in late night for November 2025. And joining us once again is the host of the Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff podcast. Mark Malkoff is here. Mark, how are you? Great. Nice to see you, John. Nice to see you, Bill. Happy to have you back, Mark. And great to have the editor at large of Late Nider here. Bill Carter, Bill, how are you? Excellent and happy to be back with you guys. Always have a stimulating chat with you fellows.

Yeah, it should be fun. This is the second month we're doing this. So we love all the feedback and would love to know what you think. Or are there any stories during the month you want us to talk about in late night? So let's dive right into our biggest story of November, which I think is the Daily Show, 2026 renewals. I think that is a fascinating conversation where they're going to continue down this path of having John Stewart on Mondays and then a rotating guest host. throughout the months of 2026. So Bill, did you break the news on this for The Daily Show Renewals? Yeah, kind of it did. Yeah. They promised me, they said, well, you can do it, and then we'll

release it, you know, 20 minutes later. But then they decided to send out a notice, you know, of embargo. So I was like, I got to write it now. This is crazy. All right. Well, we're going to go into our fourth season. It will be the third season of John Stewart and the news team the fourth season with rotating guest hosts. Bill, do you feel like this format is working for you? Well, I mean, would I think it be better if John Stewart hosted every night? Yeah, I think that would be better. I think the other people are talented. I think they're not equally talented. I would say that's an interesting question for them going forward to keep the rotation now with Johnson as how many people? Five people? I think.

so. I mean, you got Josh Johnson, Desi Leidick, Costa, trying to think, oh, Jordan. And Jordan Clever. It's a lot, yeah. That's a lot. That's a lot. So you don't get the same connection with the host that you do with somebody who's there more regularly. I think that's a factor. And I wonder if they'll change that going forward. I don't know. I would imagine they also assess who does best. whose ratings are better, things like that. I think they're all talented. I think it's interesting that what they generally do with the other hosts is do headline.

Like they come on and say, let's look what's in the headline. It's almost like Seth Meyer's beginning of his show. You know what I mean? Like, let's look at the headline. Whereas John is doing a essay every week. But I think, you know, it's amusing. it keeps my attention. They often do very funny.

I mean, they're very funny writers. So, I mean, the show still has strong appeal, I think. I think so, too. I think what's interesting, I mean, you have Troy Awada, Grace Cool and Schmidt as well there as correspondence. Like, there's a lot of personalities on the show, Mark. It almost feels like a cast, like you could look at it, like an S&L cast that they have there, where, like, many nights, if, like, Ronnie Chang is hosting, like,

Desi Lightig might play the role of correspondent. It's not like they're just one person there that's taking over the show the way that's Stewart does on Mondays, do you feel like this format works for you? I do. I think it's really a great thing. I do echo what Bill is saying, because it is that thing. When John Stewart took over the Daily Show, it took a while for him doing the show to get that rhythm. And anybody that's new needs that time to really figure out their voice and maybe make changes organically here and there. But I think it works. I'm so glad it was renewed. I think it would have might have been a PR disaster if they yanked it. I'm just glad everything worked out.

But I think that there's the one thing I will say is there's the talent is so strong at the Daily Show. I would not be surprised if the same thing happens. What happened to Michael Chey is that he was only there for a little bit and he had a better opportunity and career wise and they go for it. So I don't know how long some of those those people will be with the Daily show. I mean, I hope that they stay. But it's definitely. I mean, John Stewart, it's clear he is the guy and still people consider him the face of the show. So we'll see. But I think that they're doing a fantastic job.

I think the addition of Johnson, Josh Johnson is really interesting because he has such a strong following on social media that you would think he's going to have a leg up if he can pull those people in. And I think he's good. I mean, you know, he's a very good stand up. But I think he's done well as a host in the brief number of times he's done it. So I think that could be an interesting thing to watch. You know, a lot of people think that comics are not really as ambitious about late night as they used to be. And probably with good reason. The shows are shrink.

Number of shows are shrinking. And, you know, veteran hosts. I mean, there's not going to be one on CBS for God's sake. But, you know, you can't have a career now without being a late night or getting a sitcom. You can be a, you know, I think Josh Johnson could be a big stand-up going around the call. there's more money in playing arenas than doing late night. I mean, it's economics. Exactly.

So I don't think necessarily the other people are a stand. Jordan Klepper, I don't think it's a standup. He's a great sketch guy, more or less. But I think, so that's an interesting factor, whether or not. And whether the big question for me was, what if John had said, I want the show to continue and I'll still be executive producer, but I'm not going to host anymore. would they go forward?

I don't know. I mean, his being there now is a very strong appeal, and it keeps the format going. Here's an interesting thing, though. So I talked to Tom Freston, right, and who was the head of MTV Networks, etc. And I asked him a question that I've been asking myself for a long time, which is if the new regime, which disposed of Colbert, decided to dispose of, of the Daily Show, because they didn't like its politics or whatever, couldn't the daily show now exist as a brand on its own for someone else to take? And he agreed with me. I mean, why not? The fact that it's on Comedy Central is sort of just marginally interesting

because they don't have anything but South Park. And the Daily Show, that's really all they have. So, I mean, Comedy Central could just have said, well, we don't exist anymore, but South Park will be on one of our other properties. Paramount Plus. Yeah, Paramount Plus. Yeah, exactly. And that would fit because the fact that it is on Comedy Central allows them to go a little bit further with their comedy than what the other network shows can do. We see swearing more raunchy jokes, like things like that. Absolutely.

So that would be a factor. But I think that if they decided, I've always felt this way about Saturday. of a night live. I mean, you know, if NBC, and there's no reason for them to do this, if they ever said, you know, it's too expensive, we don't want to do it. I can't imagine Netflix or somebody wouldn't say, freaking Saturday at Live. We'll put it on. What you're crazy? And I feel that sort of that same way about the Daily Show. It's not the same as the other late night shows, which are basically the same format with the host, etc. The Daily Show is doing, you know, satirical news, which is a different thing. So I would

I would think it has a future no matter what. Yeah, to your point about Saturday Live, I definitely see, you know, some sort of Netflix involvement down the road, at least, you know, I'm seeing them already starting to pull ESPN personalities over there for their live sports content. We'll see what they do for the future of comedy over Netflix, but that's a conversation for another time. My last question, Mark, about The Daily Show. I mean, you just spoke to Roy Wood Jr. on Inside Late Night.

I thought you had a fascinating conversation with him about what it was like to leave the daily show, why he left, what opportunities were available to him. And, you know, as Bill said, there may be some benefit for these hosts who don't have to be committed to being there every week and then can go out and make more money on tour. Do you think that this could be more issues down the road for them with this format and their personalities? Or do you feel like this is the right fit at the right time? It's hard to say. I mean, yeah, Roy Wood was very, very clear that he didn't feel like there was going to be a step up at the daily show and it was time for him to go after all the. those years. Now he has his own show on CNN, is doing great on tour. I think every anchor just

really has to assess where they are, where they want to be. And if they are going to be having to fight for air time, I mean, it's, it's like SNL and the Daily Show. It's a little bit easier with the Daily Show, maybe, to get airtime. But it's, it's not easy. And, you know, sometimes there's other career temptations out there. I mean, it was just so clear with Roy Wood Jr. that it was time to go and he made a really good decision i think he did well i'd like to note that the interesting thing about the dale show that's changed is that they always had these this cast but they were correspondents they weren't they didn't get an anchor shot you know and the correspondent part of that is really downplayed now they don't really do as much with that as they used to

john will do an entire time without throwing to anybody you know he he did so so they have they have this choice and you won't be very prominent you won't that as much air time as as a correspondent, but you'll get a week of hosting now and then, or three days anyway, of hosting now and then. And that is great for your exposure. I go back to Johnson because I think Josh Johnson is on the cusp of a big career. Oh, he's going to break out. I mean, he's going to be huge. I think he's going to be a household name. I really, really do. Yes. So, his decision is also quite interesting to follow. Will he stay if he thought, I'm the real successor to John Stewart? You know, that might be a fact.

I think that those jobs are less and less attractive when the dollar sign is there for less work. It's such a grind. I mean, the Daily Show is only four days a week, and it's a little less, but it's really hard to have other career aspirations. I mean, John Stewart had enough leverage at doing it for years where he could go and make a movie and direct something. But like, it takes over your life. I can't see him that that would be something that he would want to do. I could be off on that. I think he'd be really good at it, but I'd be surprised.

if they offered it, if they wanted it. You know, the money is a factor, but fame is a factor. I mean, there are a lot of standups that make a lot of money going down the country. They're not that well known outside that circle. You know what I mean? But John Stewart is a national big figure because of the Daily Show. I don't know if television is going to carry that much weight. But if you're on television four nights a week, you certainly have a big platform.

So I don't know. I think it's a very interesting question. And obviously with Taylor Thomas, and she answered that what she thought. I think that if you're looking for maybe some insight into the future of the Daily Show, keep an eye out on John Stewart's Monday shows, where if he ever does throw to a correspondent, I think that maybe putting somebody there who is a host, one of the rotating hosts, on John Stewart's Monday show is a sign from the show itself

that they're really trusting this person to put them out there on the biggest night of the week. So that's something I would watch for in 2026. But I do want to pivot over to the biggest story we talked about last month, which was all the Jimmy Kimmel Trump stuff, everything that was happening. And then this month in November, you wrote a fascinating article, Bill, last week, where you said, you know, as Trump rages on, late night hosts find new openings, they feel more emboldened. And I think that what has happened over the last month with the coverage of the Epstein files, all the voting, everything post-government shutdown has been these hosts of late night.

feeling like just more powerful than ever that they could say what they need to say. I would love to know your perspective on what you've seen the last month from the late night house. Yeah, I think the fact that Stuart, I mean, that Kimmel survived the attempt to remove him has only made it more clear that these guys feel emboldened to stand up for what they believe. And they have, I mean, Seth Myers now has been attacked twice. and he comes back and he comments on it. It was interesting. Seth was sort of trying not to do that.

I thought he was trying not to do that. And then he did it. And Trump went crazy and he went crazy again. And I think, okay, Trump looks ineffectual in a way now. It's not working. It's only helping them. It doesn't hurt them. It helps.

It helps Seth, for sure. It helps Kimmel. Yeah, I said he's feeding the hands that bite him. But that's what he's doing. And so for Kim and Kimmel, and this is another thing that Fresen said, I think he said like Kimmel is now the voice, the leading voice of the opposition, of the resistance. And it's fascinating. Kimmel comes out on a stage every night and the people go crazy, crazy, way more over the top than they ever did before because they're like, we don't want, we don't believe in people taking something we like away. That doesn't sound like American to them. So I really think it's been to their advantage. And I do think it's interesting that Trump, because Trump was attacking the media at the same time, you know, calling a woman a pig and all that stuff.

Contemporaneously when he's attacking the late night people. And that's because those are two people he thinks threaten him. That's right. That's what he thinks. You can see that. I think that the two hosts this month that had very fascinating months with regards to Trump and his coverage of late night, is are both Kimmel and Seth. And I think that with Kimmel, what he has been doing over the last couple of weeks is fascinating

to me because he's had guests like Eric Swalwell on to talk about running for the governor of California. He had Mark Kelly on to talk about his response to Trump saying that, you know, senators and congress people should be hanged. So I think that that, you know, he's in a way taking the position of what Colbert had in late night. Exactly. Colbert is going away.

Kimmel's becoming the new Colbert in that sense. And that is fascinating to me. He's never been more relevant. It has like a little bit of overtones on the tonight show when it was Conan was getting shoved out. And Conan, we were tuning in every night to see what Conan was going to say about NBC. And kids, you can do anything you want unless Jay Leno wants a two or whatever the joke was. But in terms of like a jolt of electricity to Kimmel's show, oh my goodness. Yeah.

It's it's kind of, you know, it's historic in a way that has happened before. I mean, you know, Letterman did something outrageous, and he, you know, it would be like, we got to watch. No, he was in the middle of that kidnapping scam, not kidnapping, blackmailing scandal, you know. That's what late night sort of is, though. It's on every day. It's live every day. It's shot live every day. There's something about it that gives it momentum and makes you think, I want to see what's going on here.

You know, it's a matter of not only just being amused. entertained but curious. Like, what's he going to say? Well, what are they going to do? What's the next move in this drama? So, Mark, you were saying before briefly that you feel like all of Trump's comments on Seth were beneficial to him and just to recap for anyone who was out of it. You know, on truth social, we had Trump talking about Seth. And then what we believe happened is that Trump, you know, or someone in his circle watched a rerun of the same episode. And, commented on a Saturday about a Friday show that was not live. And then Seth responded to that as well.

And I thought that, you know, his response is in a closer look and in his monologues, just, you know, being like, you're going after me now, was so fascinating. Why do you feel like this is so beneficial for Seth Myers? It's the best advertising for his show for people to tune in. It makes him relevant that the president of the United States is talking about him, a comedian. in. It's interesting to look back that him and Seth at one point were okay. I mean, they, he was going to go on Seth's show. And Trump demanded, I guess, privately that, allegedly,

supposedly that Seth apologized publicly for, I guess, the correspondence dinner. And Seth's absolutely not. So at one point, they were okay. And it's just, it's what it is. I mean, I think that probably privately, Alex Bayes, Seth Myers, and Shoemaker, whenever they get tweeted about or high-fiving each other. I mean, it's material, and it just proves the relevance, and it just gives them more ammunition, it seems, in terms of their material. And just to remind the listeners, Trump has been on Fallon's show three times. He has been on Colbert twice and Kimmel three times. He's never been on Seth's show, Bill. you know, I saw Seth at the Brooklyn shows that Jimmy Kimmel was doing and just talked to him briefly about it.

But I got a sense, especially talking from Shoemaker, his produce Mike Shoemaker, they're not totally comfortable being in the barrel. You know, I mean, yeah, it gives them attention and all that. But, you know, the world is not, the country's not full of a lot of crazy people. And there's a lot of stuff going on that's crazy. And I don't know that they want to be consistently in the barrel the way Kimmel is. I mean, Kimmel's inviting it now. You know, he basically, the other night he said, you know, he checked it was 1249 when Trump tweeted about it.

I was like, well, you watched our show. You're watching live. That's fantastic. You know, we need more live viewers. That's fantastic. So he's encouraged. He's really encouraging it. If Trump tweets about him every night, he'd be happy.

I think he'd feel great about it. because he's he the real thing jimmy is combative he's a combative guy you know what i mean that's in his nature and i don't see that so much with set set's a you know kind of a thought more thoughtful guy he's going to mix it up if he has to but i i know he's not encouraging it i think now jimmy kind of feels like basically it's his calling card now this is who i am i'm taking on the president and i'm unafraid and i think set sort of handles it with you know a little bit of passive aggressiveness where he's looking at it and he's like, okay, let me take a step back. Let's talk about why this happened the way that it did.

It's a very different approach with Ben Kimmel, as you said, who just really goes right back at him. I mean, you know, we've talked a long time about the future of late night and how, you know, Fallon on NBC could be the last standing late night host at some point. But do we feel like this potentially extends the life of Seth's show, at least through the rest of the Trump administration? I believe his contract goes until 2028 anyways. but is this something that

he's the only one left in his time slot, Bill. Do you feel like this could potentially just give him a boost to move even further until the future? Well, I think it doesn't hurt for sure. And that franchise is the oldest franchise among any show that isn't, well, it isn't the Tonight Show.

I mean, that's the oldest existing franchise. And they've made a point of keeping it alive. So, you know, I think they'll... I've talked to somebody in sales at NBC. actually connected to me. And I said, you know, it must be. And they said, no, late night, people still like that. They still like being in late night.

It's a little bit more than just the ratings. Because there is attention to it. It's like, you know, people watching TV, especially now, they're doing a million other things. But this kind of story going on like this makes you pay attention. And I think that helps. I do think that helps. So I do think they will keep the show. Plus, they are not so much under Trump's sway that they would cave to him necessarily the way the CVS people did.

I think what really is the shocking story of the year to me is not necessarily if they canceled for Bear, but they dropped the whole franchise. That is just remarkable for a broadcast network that you would think has got to keep some element of dragging people into their network that they walked away from the franchise. I find that just astonishing. Yeah, truly, I think we'll be talking about that for a very long time. I want to put it over to something a little bit more emotional this month, where we saw the very unfortunate passing of Clito, the band leader for Clito and the Clito owns the house band for Jimmy Kim Alive, been on the show since the inception back in 2003 until this year.

And of course, you know, when this happened, we got some canceled shows from Jimmy Kimmel Live. He came on to talk about the passing, yet his family in the audience. It was a very, very emotional couple of weeks there at Jimmy Kim alive. And still now, you know, you have a sax there sitting with the rest of the band. And it's something that I don't think fans of Jimmy Kim alive and people watching and knowing Cleto will ever forget. So, you know, I know you're both experts in late-night TV and you've seen these things happen before with late-night personalities. How did you feel like the show handled the passing of Clito and everything that you got to see the last couple of weeks, Bill? Well, I also knew Clito from being around the show a lot.

And I knew those guys were amazingly close. I mean, Jimmy told the story. I mean, since they, I don't know, nine years old or whatever it was, you know, they were with running mates, you know. So that was more than losing your colleague. It was, you know, losing your genuine, deep, lifelong friend. That is an extraordinary thing to have happened, especially because the guy was young. And, you know, Jimmy wears his emotion on his sleeve.

He does. He gets very emotional. And I guess some people don't like it, but I think it's genuine and I think it's human. Agreed. Agreed genuine. I mean, it reminds me a little bit of overtones of Jack Parr. I mean, they were transparent. What you saw is what you got. I thought that Kimmel, Jimmy did a beautiful job. And I've been over there to visit many times too. It's a warm, warm environment. Not every late night show we both know is like that. And it starts at the top. I thought he did a phenomenal job. I was, this is a little bit just a creative, creative note. But I mean, I really did enjoy on, I think they'd Monday, they were going to do in an 80s week. And they had the Johnny Carson Curtains, which I thought was really cool. And obviously, this tragedy, I mean, I mean, there's nothing to celebrate other than

just talk about what a beautiful human being he was. But, yeah, I thought Kimmel handled it gracefully. I would agree. I think that, you know, if you go back and you watch that Monday, show from 80s a week, it seems like they were set up for something really cool that hopefully they will go back to in the future. That's something that I think that fans of the show really do enjoy the nostalgia of getting to see things like that, but it made all the sense in the world to, you know, cat more shows. We had great guests lined up for the week, too. I mean, they really

did. So it was too bad, but I mean, they had no choice. They couldn't go through with that. And I mean, Jimmy had trouble getting through that show. So, I mean, I don't think he could have played it. You know, let's go back to the 80. You know, I mean, I, I mean, I, I mean, I think that would have been out of step for him. Of course. And of course, we obviously feel, you know, exactly the same about, you know, his passing and our emotions towards everything. I thought it was, you know, just, you know, looking at this pragmatically, I thought it was so fascinating, just like in the context of Jimmy Kimmel's year, the fact that we did have back to back months of two very different situations. But Kimmel just really being raw and emotional on screen.

And, you know, I think that, you know, he had a choice. of whether he wanted to have that conversation with the audience, let everybody in to the relationship that he had with Guido. I thought that having that conversation with the audience, having the family there, it was just a wonderful moment, Bill. But that's, you know, again, I go back to, this is what late night has done throughout its history. I mean, you know, I know Johnny addressed the death of his son.

I mean, Letterman had to address all kinds of personal issues. And he just sat there straightforwardly talking and you were like, this isn't. some writer writing jokes for him. This is the guy. This is his life that we're sort of taking a part in. You know, we're, you know, Letterman had everything happening, women breaking into his house

and, you know, getting traffic tickets and all those things that he talked about. And Jimmy's like that. He's like, and he does have a show that's very family. I mean, Mark is right about the warmth of the show. He has so many family members there, you know. It really feels

like it's, you know, a family construction and and that that is tremendously unusual it's the you know farthest thing away from laris Sanders as you can get mark i think it's one of the things that's most fascinating about late nights nowadays is that like back when carson was the you know sort of only host of late night you were able to feel like when you're watching the show he's your friend he's the one that's going to guide you through the evening and now you have a lot of options to choose from and i think if you become attached to a certain late-night personality, you go through with them the ups and downs. And of course, people are not as attached to these late-night personalities the way that they were

maybe 10 or 20 years ago. But there still is something to say about, hey, we've watched Kimmel on air for 22 years. We've watched Clito on air for 22 years. Yeah, there's an emotional attachment, no doubt, to people when you're watching these people, you're going to sleep a lot of times if people are watching at 1130 or 1230 or whatever. And yeah, when Johnny Carson would talk about his son passing away in 1991. I mean, it was, I mean, just people, Johnny had taken a month off. And I mean, Johnny had to address it was probably the hardest moment he's ever had to do on camera. There's been, yeah, things like this. Johnny took on the National Enquirer in the early 80s and called them liars. I mean, this was stuff that everybody was talking about. We follow these people.

We follow their families. And, you know, they're entertainers for first and foremost. But there's think that they have to address sometimes. And they, some do it way better than others. But I definitely think Kimmel, in terms of what he's been doing, has been doing a very stellar job. Yeah. So our heart goes out to everybody at Jimmy Kimmel Live. Let's make the pivot over to SNL season 51. So we've now just passed the second month of the season. And, you know, I've been really in tune with the fans and what they're talking about. And I could say I've been covering the show for a few New Year's now, have never seen this many positive reviews on a season going back like six years, seven years. It's been really, really crazy. I'm sure that everybody has a different

opinion on the show, but I think that I keep seeing the word fresh being thrown around, and that's exactly what people said in the preseason mark about, okay, Lauren was trying to refresh the show. It's the writing. I really think that. I mean, they've talented people, the new people that they got is great. I just think that the shows have been, at least the last three songs shows have been very strong with the writing. I think I love that enthusiasm. I think they're doing a great job. I'm excited for the next three hosts. They've been booking it. Well, I love because they're obviously obsessed. Tom Davis, the late Tom Davis, great SNL writers, that the show always has to say young with the cast and the host for the most part. But when they bring in someone like share with

Ariada Grande, I mean, I think that's wonderful when they do. that Stevie Nicks, when they actually do bring somebody back iconic. So I'm excited, but it definitely feels like, because last season was more about the 50th and just all the festivities, but I really feel like that they're getting in a group. And I think the new people are working out very well. I think the hosts have been a little hit and miss. For reasons I can't explain. I thought Nikki Glazer was not very good.

Really? I thought her monologue wasn't very good. and I didn't think they had a whole lot of mess ups in that show. Like it wasn't the smoothest show. And she looked a little awkward to me. Like she wasn't as, you know, relaxed. Whereas I thought the last one was really good. I mean, I thought they really...

Oh, Glenn Powell. Was it Glenn Powell, right? Yeah, I thought that show... Yeah, yeah, he was good. He was really good. Yeah, I thought he was really good. And that's always been the case. Obviously, you don't know how the host is going to work. Sometimes they're just, you know, a sports guy and he's good. You can't account for that.

But I'm totally end down with them completely getting the show younger and fresher. I think that's absolutely essential. It's always been essential. It's absolutely what you want to do. I think it takes a little time for the people to emerge, you know. And, you know, I assume that that's going to be revelatory as it goes on. People are already now crazy about Ashley Padilla. And, you know, I don't think before the season.

and people would have had, would have been able to say her name very much. You know what I mean? She was not emerging. So I think that's, that's a big factor. You develop someone and then all of a sudden people are talking about them. That's what's always happening on the show. I thought Nikki Glazer, I personally really enjoyed her. I thought she was really strong in the pre-tapes. I will say, I talked to John yesterday just a little bit about this. I feel like probably the biggest hole in the show or maybe that they still have to figure out or the cold opens. I thought the mayor will, the debate with New York.

And James Austin Johnson does an amazing Trump. I give that to him. It just seems that they've been a little lackluster and the cold open. And it's just, I don't know. It reminds me a little bit of when Downey, who's brilliant, would write these cold opens that just would do okay, but they would just put them in just because it's topical and we want to be topical. But I don't know.

I feel like that that is probably the thing that needs, that I would say maybe needs the needs the most work. I thought they did a Domingo cold open, right? Yes, you love Domingo, Bill? Talk about it. I need Domingo. And so I thought don't cold open with this. I mean, that's just, I mean, that was a, to me, was a cop out.

You know, like they could use that anywhere in the show. Why they make the cold open? Like, it didn't make sense to me. Yeah, that was rare that they usually go topical for whatever reason. I don't know what the numbers are on that cold open on YouTube, but. People tune in every night. on Saturday night to think, what are they going to make the cold open? What's happened that they'll make the cold open? I think there's an expectation of that. I mean, I don't know how

recent that is. If you go back, obviously, the cold open had whatever they want to do. But I think they really have an expectation. And to do a recurring bit just felt a little like they didn't have something better. Yeah, I don't know. It just seems like the last kind of cold opens have just been okay. And again, I just, maybe the Trump thing is just so overdone. That's the problem have Mark. Everything about Trump has been overdone. Everything. Right. The whole universe is it's overdone. Even when he's not in the cold open, you know he's going to slide in almost always. And I will say this. Finally, Lorne has given James Austin Johnson the football and let him do sketches and other than Trump throughout the show. And I like that a lot. And I'm glad that he's

finally gotten that opportunity. Yeah, about the cold opens this past month. I really liked the mayoral debate. I thought that it was really strong. I think it was maybe just like a little bit late. I wish they would have done that the previous episode. But I think the fact that they brought in Rami Yousef and Shane Gillis, like, I felt like that was, that was refreshing. I thought Shane Gillis, who very famously was an almost cast member and has come back a couple times to host, he was just just crushed it as Curtis Lee was. And I think you brought a lot of attention to the show. That's great. That's absolutely true, Joe. My reaction to that was, she, I don't, does someone in Cleveland get this? You know, like, does anybody, like, do they know who Curtis Sleeway is? He was really good.

Curtis Leewell. But if you're not in the New York area, like, who is that guy? For sure. But the thing was is that I believe this was the first time in the history of Saturday and Alive. They've ever done a sketch on a New York mayoral debate. They've covered New York mayors before. New York mayors have hosted the show, but they've never done a full debate sketch. Yeah, because they would do Giuliani cold opens with Neelan as Giuliani when he first got elected. But yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, they've never done it. And I think that the reason that they felt okay with it was because of the press that Momdani was getting via Trump, right? Like, via the fact that the White House was so focused on the New York election.

What was the cold open this past, the last show? So this was that Caroline Levitt opening up the press conference and asked, you know, if you're getting asked questions about the Epstein files before that James said Trump came in. Ashley. For me, the Epstein files were so much in the news that week. I thought they had to address it. And of course, it was all over the weekend update, too. I mean, they just had so much material.

That's when I feel like, and Lauren has said this, sometimes he doesn't have a choice. You know, he has to do it. People expect it and he has to do it, whether or not they can execute it really, really well or not. I remember one in a night that was there. It was a debate, you know, presidential debate week. And they, and I went to the dress rehearsal. And the cold open was a bomb. It totally bombed.

It was Obama against Romney, right? and they don't they never had a handle on Obama like why what's the funny thing about Obama what is the thing we satirize about him you know he's aloof like what how do you do that you know and so it bombed I mean it really bad down he was brought back to write it down he was brought back to write the thing and they went through I mean they jumped through hoops like crazy and totally redid it and it was passable by the time it did it but and Lawrence it I have to do it it's a debate thing that people think we are going to do it I have to do it and I think they are boxed in a little with that well I think that the secret sauce for these cold opens right now is that James helps a lot with the writing of these cold opens in that he can riff as Trump like crazy it's like somebody who can freestyle rap like he could sit in an office with the headwriters and just riff and then they write around it so for them it becomes a little bit of a crutch and I think it's like a fascinating talent and I love to see it's it. However, they are very reliant on it. Now, what I thought was fascinating about this past

a cold open that we saw was I felt like there was something meta that we were getting from Ashley Padilla opening up the show was Caroline Levitt, which was let's give this rising star a political impression. Let's put her at the front of the show. The feature players, there's just as many of them as the repertory players. At this point, the categories are meaningless. Ashley Padilla is leading the show in screen time appearance. It's crazy. what she is doing in her only her second season. And Mark, I mean, you know, we talked about this a bit last month, but just seeing, you know, somebody as a face of a cast or the star of a show, it's happened many times in the past. You know, we talk about people like Will Ferrell, Kristen Wig,

like those types of people who start to just become the front of the pack. Do you think this is good for the show how well Ashley Padilla is doing right now? I think it's great what they're doing now. I think I just, I always resist what they do with Kristen Wig and Kate McKinnon. And it's just that Will Farrell, they take over the show. Other people, it's hard to get time. I think the, I like that they, you can tell that they're thrusting her in stuff, but I just don't want it to be over the top. And the writers feel like to get their sketches and they have to write for her.

And I just feel like the writing, a lot of the time the writing goes down when they do that. But she's clearly somebody that they're pushing and it makes sense. I mean, she's really, really strong. Yeah, Bill, does she remind you of anybody from SNL? past? Well, she's not as, you know, her characters are not crazy kind of characters like McKinnon would do the woman in the bar, you know, like freely, she's not over the top like that. I think she's maybe Amy Polarish, maybe, kind of range, very good range, you know, like can do a lot of characters without being, you know, pigeonholed as a certain type of comic, you know. So I, I, I, I,

I'm sort of looking forward because I think she has, as you said, that was her first real impression kind of that she did. And I think that's going to be interesting to see what they do with her. One person I want to mention who I thought was a grand slam was Marcello doing Sebastian Manas, what was this last name? Manuscalco. I thought in terms of like just people's enthusiasm for that particular impression, because they, you know, they don't do as many impressions as they did back in the day for a sketch. It just seemed the audience just loved that so much. And I think that was really good, Mark, because Sebastian, he's not that well known that everyone knows, but he's so outrageous and exaggerated.

The physical. Even if you didn't know who he was, that was very funny. But what was this thing about it was a potential, you know, some sort of pay-for-play thing, you know? I don't think that was a thing, honestly. I don't think that there was any paid sponsorship for something like. that, but can I tell you guys what I really loved about this impression? It's that it reminded me a lot of something that the show used to do, which was take an impression of a guy. Maybe you don't know

him, or maybe you know the SNL version of the impression, and put him in a regular life, slice of life scene and just watch this like out-of-box person in another situation. So in this case, we got Marcello as Sebastian Manascalco being invited to a bachelor party. So it was like, why is this person here? And then you can build the scene around it, where you. you actually have personalities there. It reminded me a lot, Mark, of I was going to say, Phil Donahue and Johnny Carson, where we had Darrell and Dana together, who are both retirees and they're talking about going golfing. That's the thing that S&L used to do instead of forcing these impressions into a parade sketch. I like the fact that there's at least a premise

that was grounded in some sort of reality, too. I think that's important. Whenever they would do whatever the celebrity show would be like the Al Pacino show or whatever, I mean, I just like they have a scenario that's grounded in some sort of reality. But that's a good comparison with, with, yeah, Carvey and Hammond back in the day. Yeah, but I really, really like that they did this. And it was, to me, it was like, I haven't seen this in a long time. It seems that that's what I, that was the impression that I got from it. I also think it was so funny that we'll see it again. Yes, certainly possible. I know that Sebastian has come out and said that he wants to host the show. So we'll see it.

The physical comedy that Marcello did on that was like, dang. I mean, I always, I already think with like Billy Madison and other things and just from the enthusiasm of him that he's doing really well career-wise. I think this solidified him really with the show. It definitely. And I'll say that, you know, he's in a really interesting spot in this cast where two of his castmates, Devin Walker and Michael Longfellow, both not brought back to the show. He's the only one left from his rookie class.

he's there at a point where there's no male cast members that are one season younger than him or two season younger than him. So he is at a spot right now where he's sort of between these younger featured players and these more veteran male cast members like Mikey and Andrew and James where he could go either way. Like this is sort of like the make or break thing of like does he elevate himself on the show as that further star? Clearly he had a successful season last year with all of the domingo stuff. But this year, you know, there was a shoe-in for him to have a great night with the Bad Bunny episode opening up the season. And since then, it's been rather quiet until last week where we got something like this. And I think that perhaps this is a sign of things to come. So I'm excited for Marcella.

Yep. Great. Yeah. So a lot to look forward to in season 51. Of course, we have three more episodes coming up in December with Melissa McCarthy returning to the show. And then Josh O'Connor for hosting for the first time. And then as we mentioned, the Ariana Grande and Cher will be the Christmas episode of Saturday and Live this season.

So we'll talk all about that the next time we get together. Mark, I know that you recently had a couple of very fun stories that you want to tell us about from your book tour, was it? Yeah, I was in Chicago, and I have to say Dave Plyer and Chicago, WGN Radio, the Museum of Broadcasting Communications, they have a late night exhibit. And it's phenomenal. I got to go over there and they gave me the tour and I got to speak. but Johnny Carson Letterman, you have Robert Smigel Triumph representing, and I know Smigel stopped by

and was just in love with this exhibit. I mean, they had 90 days to put this thing together, and I was blown away. I mean, I know a lot about Carson, obviously, and I just, I learned things from going there, the presentation, everything. If you are in Chicago, it's open for a long time. Please, I urge people to stop by. It was great. And they have, you know, stuff from Arsenio, from Dave Letterman. They really played well with homage, but definitely the Johnny Carson, things that they had on display and just the presentation was phenomenal. And that was one place that I highly recommend.

The second one, Bill, I don't know if you've been there. This was very surreal for me. I was invited to go to North. I thought it was Norfolk, but they say Norfolk, Nebraska. And they got to be in Johnny Carson's. Boyhood home. And the kind owner had me, on the wall, they have people that, notable people from the comedy festival that have signed the wall like the Smothers Brothers and Paul Reiser. They invited me to sign the wall. And I really appreciate it. But just to be there, though, they have this, the Elkhorn Valley Museum. They have everything. Johnny Carson donated all the costumes, letters. And I've never seen so much Carson stuff in, in person. It was phenomenal. I loved being there. And I really did get a sense. of this is of Johnny of just being in that vibe of where Johnny grew up and just being the influence it was it was a wonderful visit both places I really did you make of the house the house

itself it was great I mean they definitely had to renovate a great deal of it but there are there were certain things that still remain I mean famously that Johnny Carson did that Johnny goes home in the early 80s that special and there were home movies of the of the home but yeah just to be in that space and just for the I got the nicest tour from the owner and showing me around and where Catherine the sister bedroom was and where Johnny and Dick were and Homer and Ruth. There are people living in the house? Right now, no. Not that I know of. It's just a private and there's a big sign Johnny Carson's Boyhood home and I think they did private tours occasionally. And I just loved being there. I know Dick Cavett was there. It was stopped by a bunch of years ago.

I mean, for somebody that just spent so many years for Carson to never be there and to be in Nebraska and just walk around town. And I can't tell you, when I spoke at the Elkhorn Valley, there were all these people that said I had Johnny's teacher, Fay Gordon. When Johnny, when Bay Gordon turned 100, Johnny went back to Norfolk. I think it was in 1996. And he would talk about his teacher Faye Gordon. It was one of the reasons in retirement, Johnny did the American Teacher Award, which they didn't think Johnny would ever come back to TV, but he really wanted to pay respect to his teacher, Faye Gordon. But there were all these people, older people that have, you know, if I had Freight Gordon and just Johnny, Johnny is a hero to so many people,

but back there, I mean, oh my God, talk about iconic and giving back to the community. It was really special, and I'm grateful I got to go there. They were very, very warm to me. Yeah, thanks for sharing those stories, Mark. We're also happy for you that you got to have those experiences. Why don't you tell everybody where they can check out the book? Oh, yes. Love Johnny Carson is available

wherever you buy books. Amazon, books a million target, or a story of bookshop here in New York City has signed copies. And yeah, I'm still going,

doing interviews and being interviewed on podcasts and radio talking about Carson. But I mean, as Bill and John, you both know, I mean, he's been gone off the air for 30 years,

but people still to this day miss him. And with YouTube, it's like some of those clips are as funny as they were 30 years ago and his legacy still lives on. Yeah, that is amazing. Mark, we also have a great interview coming up on Inside Late Night this week with Jonathan Groff. So that will be a great conversation. Looking forward to all the listeners checking that one out. Anything you want to say about that?

Yeah, oh man, as Conan's headwriter, I mean, this is a personal just observation. I really feel the strongest Conan, if you look at the body of work, was when Smigel was the head writer for the first couple of years, and Jonathan Groff. I think that he hired so many key people on Conan. We really pull the curtain back on what was going on at the time with Conan. It was really when he was nine months, he was a writer before he was head writer and stepping into a place where Conan was really figuring out the voice of who he was as a performer and just hearing some of the stories about some Larry Sanders moments with some. guest that very complicated issues that Jonathan was able to gracefully handle. And I mean, he, you know, people have been very nice. They're like, I can't believe you know so much. Your knowledge is kind of scary and stuff. But I had, I'd known him since I was almost a teenager.

I'd met him a bunch of times. And we were able to talk about those really, some of the his hires and the big milestones of Conan Show. And he was able to give things that to me, details I did not know And I think anybody that's followed Conan's career, it was a really, really solid conversation with Jonathan Graf. Conan is very big now. Bill, it seems so big that the TBS years don't even exist in people's minds, I think, for somewhat. It feels like the 1230 show and then his podcast. I think it might take a couple more years for the TBS stuff to just kind of get more in rotation for people to recognize some of the bits that maybe went under. I mean, some of the remotes actually did very well.

But in terms of his popularity, oh my goodness, holy Conan. Seriously. And Bill, you keep crushing it with all of your features that you have over at Late Nighter. Is there anything that you would like to plug that you're working on? Well, I'm going to write about Tom Freston. And I'm sort of working on an idea about how late night is now become a serial drama. Okay. That's very true.

that definitely works and tracks for all the discussions we've been having here. So thank you, Bill, and thank you, Mark, for joining us. And if you like everything you've been listening to here on the Late Nighter Roundtable, let us know your thoughts. You can comment on our YouTube, Apple Podcast, Spotify at the Late Nighter Podcast Network to never miss anything we have going on, whether it's inside late night with Mark Malkoff or Late Nighter roundtables. So on behalf of everyone here at Late Nighter, my name is John Schneider, and we will see you next month. Have a good one.