Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Late Night’s Jimmy Kimmel Moment [LateNighter Roundtable Podcast]

Episode Date: October 1, 2026

LateNighter’s Monthly Roundtable podcast returns with an episode looking back at a September that found Jimmy Kimmel at the center of seemingly every major late-night storyline.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Late Niders Roundtable for September 2026. My name is John Schneider from Late Nider, and I'm so excited to be back with you for another monthly roundtable. It's been a few months since we've gotten together to talk about everything that's happening in late night. So great to be back with the guys. And joining us, of course, is the incredible Mark Malkoff. Nice to see you both. Yeah, wonderful to see you, Mark. And of course, Bill Carter is here, Legend.

Happy to see you, Bill. Nice to see you guys. happy to be talking about late night still which is hopefully going to continue hopefully i think maybe people thought we stopped doing the roundtables because we were worried that it wasn't but we were gone like seth myers yeah exactly we needed a little bit of a hiatus to recharge but we're back better than ever and we're so excited to talk about all the biggest storylines over the last few months and of course it seems like the the king of late night right now is mr jimmy kimmel where there are endless stories to talk about when it comes to him,

his show, what the future of his role in late night will be. So let's dive right in and start there. One of the biggest stories that happened over the last few weeks is that he was on the precipice of returning to his show from his summer break, and then the tabloid started to report that his contract wasn't being renewed. ABC jumps in, quickly denies all of this, and then there are a million questions following Bill about how did this happen, why did this happen? So what's your take on it all? Well, I think somebody doesn't want it to happen.

I think there's definitely people out there who would like Kimmel to go away. That's one factor. I think there is kind of pressure on ABC. I do think my sense is they were pretty close to a deal and then sort of backed away. I feel like that's sort of what happened. And I'm not sure exactly what set that off. Probably discussions over money and the budget of the show, probably, because that's clearly been a factor in all the shows. But the idea of the thing being planted was so reminiscent to me of what happened with Johnny Carson that I couldn't believe it. It was in the same newspaper even. It wasn't the wood. Johnny got the wood, but it felt really like a planted story. And you knew, at least I knew, that there was no real source for it at the network level, I didn't think.

So my sense is that it's still not settled. But I also feel like everything that's happened since has sent the message that Kimmel's got the hottest show in late night. There's just no question about it. And his ratings are great. The atmosphere in Brooklyn has been a spectacular. and I just feel like if ABC were to pass on him now, it would really look like a complete political cave in, it seems to me. And I'm pretty, I would wager that it's going to happen.

Mark, you wrote a book on all things, Carson, so I would just love to know your thoughts on the situation. My wife, Christine, who's with me on this as well, with the Carson podcast, just said the same thing, Bill. I mean, it was very Helen Kushnik planting something in the New York Post. I mean, the New York Post was animate that this happened. there were denials from ABC and in the New York Post

stuck by this story and then I believe it was Puck that did a story that said that they were asking for him to take a 20% for a cut to their show's budget 20% which I don't know if that is accurate or not but Bill we all know these things

from the time that Leno had to take a pay cut his show Letterman a third him and some of the producers I mean there was for shadow that this is going to happen. But I think you're right. I mean, if Kimmel went away, he's getting higher ratings than Fallon. I mean, the fact that this guy is getting such big guest. I mean, you got Howard Stern, McCartney, Springsteen on this week. He's constantly making news. Even when

he's not there, the Rosie O'Donnell, the guest host are making news. It's, it's definitely he is at the top of his game. I hope he stays. Literally is, Mark. His ratings are the best he's ever had. Yeah, it says a lot. He's ever had in the entire run of the show. I think we all knew when he, we thought that after Colbert's show ended, that his ratings would pick up, but just the extent that they have been and how strong the show has been from a press standpoint and the guest's stamp point. I mean, you were there yesterday, Bill, around that energy.

I mean, it's unbelievable what is going on over there. And I love the fact that your pal John. Ham in the green room. It was like, it said, you know, late night is America. It's, it can't go away.

Yeah, that was, I mean, you know, just incidentally, he happened to be, you know, a walk on, but he hung around.

He loves it. He loves the show. He loves late night. And he just wanted to make that point. I mean, he was just incredibly enthusiastic about it. And I have to say, I mean,

I made the point. You don't, where do you go to get something like this if late night doesn't exist? What is it? Where do people gather 150, thousand people try to get in and and they line up around the block and the rain and try to get you know there's something there was something incredibly energetic and enthusiastic about it that you don't get it

i mean i made the point people say well it's going to be all podcasts what podcasts can do that and podcast not going to do that and so it really is something that would be i think tremendously missed and that you could tell from the audience because the audience was not you know 50 50 plus an over. This was a young crowd. They probably don't even own television sets. They catch Kimmel in all the other ways you can do that, but they are wildly

enthusiastic for the guy. I mean, you know the audience comes out to be warmed up, which Mark knows everything about, and tries to jazz them up. They didn't have to do that. It was going crazy without any of that. And so I was like, I was

quite amazed. I mean, I did I was actually in the crowd when Conan did his first tour after he was, you know, taken off the air. And it was sort of like that. It was like this crazy, wild atmosphere of we love this guy. We want to support this guy. And I'm telling you, there's nothing else on ABC that's like that except football. I mean, there isn't anything like that.

It's going to be interesting to see if with budget cuts, how they're going to make it work. I mean, I can see Kimmel doing what, doing exactly what other show hosts like Leno did, which is Leno just ate the money on his host salary and just absorbed it himself. I mean, Kimball is that type of guy. We all know that he has friends and family that are working on that show. And he has that reputation. Yes, all over. Yes.

It works for them. So I could see him eating the money himself if need be. But I hope he's mixed around. I feel like, and as he proved, whenever Trump is going after him, He has a real spy in this guy. He does not just fold. He does not just fold. And he's got baby Belle Dixon as his guy doing the negotiations.

So I don't think he's just going to say, yeah, I'll take a 20% pick. I think he's going to say, look, I got the hottest show, you know, look what I'm doing for you. And they'll come back with some points. I just can't see them not coming to an agreement because it's clear Jimmy wants to do the show now. He wants it. There's a period of time where he didn't. now he does. I think he's feeling it.

You can't not feel as a performer walking out on that stage. You just got to be overwhelmed. I don't know what kind of budget cuts they would make because, you know, music, they're down to, I think, two nights a week. They cut down music to try to save money. I guess, I mean, you could always, I guess, I hope the number of writing staff members don't go down. But, I mean, I don't know. That's not a big cut, though. You know what I mean?

Like, you could cut a few writers. I don't, you know, is that really going to make a dent? I mean, you know, unless they chop his salary, get rid of totally of the ban, or cut another night of the week out. You can't make huge cuts. You can nickel and dime. Well, one of the more fascinating moments of the week was Howard Stern being on and talking about Jimmy's contract publicly, which I thought was so interesting. And I'm so curious to ask you to about this because there's definitely been public discussion of late night figures. contracts in the past, but I almost feel like they've never really been on the show as much.

So it's weird to me that we're talking about Jimmy Kimmel's contract on his show versus, let's say, like, in the trades or general discussion around it, it feels like it's become almost like a political talking point that brings in more ratings. It's like a leverage situation for Kimmel versus the network and all of that. Well, look, it was put in the public discourse by the post. It was put out there. I mean, Johnny, I don't think, overtly commented on the Post thing that's going back. That's growing back a long time.

But when things are in the public discourse, a host tends to talk about them a little bit. Now, Jimmy didn't talk about it, but Stern, who's unbelievably close to Jimmy, very, very close, very close friends. He wants to defend his friend. That's what he wants to do. That's what he was doing out there. He's basically throwing down the gauntlet to ABC. Like, you know, what are you doing? I can't let this guy go.

And, you know, and his, I can see other guests are going to maybe do that with him because, you know, he's not just a talk shows now. He's got this kind of crusader mantle that he's carrying. And, you know, he's being supported by so much of Hollywood that I really, and I kind of believe, you know, Iiger's not there anymore. But I can't believe their corporate management would be foolish enough to say, yeah, you know, we can save a. $30 million if we do this, or we can just drop the show. I just, I find it astonishing. He seems too valuable. I mean, definitely with millionaire, he's hosting the celebrity millionaire. That's going well for them. In terms of a face of a network, I mean, he's... He is this. Yeah. There's just no doubt. We talked about the ratings,

incredible ratings for Kimmel right now. Obviously, he's having a huge week in Brooklyn. Even Guillermo is having the moment himself. He's become sort of like this full Akira where he's being saved on dancing with the stars. So there's a lot of goodwill surrounding the show right now. A lot of people are buying into what's happening there. How do you, Bill, if you are running Kimmel's show right now, ride this wave as long as possible? Well, I think you've got to absolutely be aggressive. You know what I mean? You've got to, yes, you can book people, book them all, book everybody. Book as many big names as you want to do. and I think you've got to keep the hammer down.

People are watching him because they know he's taking on Trump. They like it. His audience is, frankly, he got Colbert's audience for that reason. They had to go somewhere. That's what they liked on Colbert. So they've come to him and they're getting what they want. And I think people feel like, you know, it's kind of important to watch his show now. A lot of people who are worried about the future of the country and they think things are going badly,

they are tuning into a guy who's saying this is wrong, folks, and I'm going to make fun of it, you know, but frankly a lot of it is serious. So I think he has all that and he can't back down. I do know, and I know from a fact that they're careful now. They're careful because they can misstep and get themselves NABC into trouble. The guy running the SEC doesn't care about the niceties of things. he'll go after anybody. He doesn't care if, you know, if the audience gets offended if he's driven off the air. So they are, they have to be careful. There is a bit of a chilling effect to this.

I think they measure everything they say. But, you know, what's within the First Amendment, they're going to do. And it's happening at a great time because the midterms are coming around. There's going to be more attention on late night with people wanting to know what he's going to say. You brought up Colbert. When we last got all, together. It was around the time the Colbert finale. Three of us were speculating when it might be the next time we would see Colbert. He would go on to sweep the Emmys and then make his first return to late night on Kimmel. So Mark, how do you feel about how Colbert has mostly stayed out of the limelight and his brief appearances we've seen him in over the last few months? I think it was exciting.

I mean, my friends that were at the show winning Emmys. I mean, I think that we all kind of knew that they had a good chance. A lot of times when a show was ending, Conan would, didn't win writing until for the NBC 1230 show until the last year when he was leaving. And they just did they did a great job. And I'm glad that they were rewarded. And yet, I mean, it definitely seems Colbert. I don't know if you got this feeling. It seems like he's only been gone for a few months, but it seems like he's been gone a lot longer.

He seems to be, you know, he has this beard. It's like this other person. He's working on a screenplay with his son. I know he's working on the scripto and some other projects. But it definitely seemed. when he came back and went on Kimmel's show that more time had gone past. Yeah, it was a very long goodbye. He had people, it was for, he won the Emmy the year before because he was going to be gone.

And then he won again because he was gone. So it was a pretty long goodbye. It feels like that was all taken into account like, yeah, well, we know he's been out of our, our mind, at least possibly for a long time. But it was interesting to me when he came on. Well, of course, he shaved the beard when he was on with Jimmy, which was obviously a bit. But the ratings went up about a million viewers. I bet.

People miss him. Yeah. Yeah. Danger. He's got his headphone. I mean, CBS can talk day and night about all the money they say, but they don't have anybody like that anymore. Byron Allen is not getting numbers on, you know, digital. He doesn't.

And he's not really fronting the network. So they've lost that. There was an amazing beard picture from the Emmys that was getting circulated of all the late-night guys just hanging out. So I thought that that was a really fun moment from the summer that we did. Yeah, it was good. I would love to speculate a little bit on if we do believe that Colbert will host Kimmel show next summer, because I think it came out that Kimmel that Jimmy had asked him to do it the summer. He said, I'm not ready.

So, like, yeah, you think he has. you, Marcus, is like his time, like, come back summer 2027? I would be shocked if he did, just like I'm always waiting for David Letterman to do it. And I would have to think that Derek Letterman and Kimmel are pretty close to that he's been offered. I think it's just tough. I mean, people's expectations when Colbert goes if he did it, if he went back, would be really sky high. And traditionally, those things take a while for a host to get back into the swing of things. I do have to say Rosie O'Donnell blew so many people away with her.

quality. I mean, people can disagree with their politics, but as a host with somebody that hadn't been doing that and years and years did not miss a beat. I was, I couldn't believe how good she was as a broadcaster, Bill. I don't know if you agree with that. Oh, totally. Oh, totally. She was, that, that's her skill. She's a broadcaster. She always was good at that. I will say, I think Colbert going on Kimmel will depend on one thing. And that's how much does Stephen miss this? I mean, I get the sense. He didn't feel. Like, unlike Dave leaving, he was not ready to go. This guy was not ready to go.

He had things to say, and he would have stayed on that show unquestionably. So, I mean, he may look at it as like, yes, I have things I want to do, and I'll do the, and I agree with Mark that it's a risky thing because it's a different environment from his show. You know, it's different writers and different environments. I wouldn't want to go from 460 people in the Sullivan Theater to 150 people in Hollywood. I mean, it's the energy. is just completely different. I know that when he walked in,

there would be love in the room, but yeah, I don't know. And remember, when he shifted from his other show to Galea, he was off, he was off for quite a while.

A solid year the public was not with him for about a year. It took them to get used to him over there, yeah. All right, we'll see what happens. Maybe you'll pop up on the daily show.

I know that was something that we speculated as well. So you could see him doing a walk-on sometime, for sure, you know, for sure. could do that. Yeah, I look forward to it eventually when that does happen. Let's check in on Jimmy Fallon. We haven't talked about him in a few months. So the latest news from him is now he's over 30 million followers on TikTok. It's just an incredible number, the most followed TV show on the

platform. And it's just a small example of where that show seems to be placing all of their strategies into is just like, let's go after this young audience. Let's create, you know, microdrama and little bits and clips that we could do to just get the younger viewers in and watch us over there, as opposed to really trying to compete with Kimmel. So, Bill, how have you felt about how Fallon's doing in the Post-Colbert world? Yeah. Well, I think that's very good strategy for what's going on in contemporary television, streaming, slash video, whatever. It's very good strategy.

It's not very good comedy, in my opinion. It's, it works, it kind of works on that level as this little hit. We have this pit and the audience is excited and everything. But if you're a frequent watcher or a long-time watcher of late night, it doesn't feel as engaging. And I know Jimmy can do other stuff, but some of it just seems very broad and, you know, splashy, but not particularly funny. To me, I watch a show not as regularly as I do Campbell, but I do watch the show, and he will occasionally do something really good. But then some nights I'll be like, wow, I don't get it. I don't think, because he's just not aiming for anything, but that's that sort of digital following.

And it's shrewd, in one level, it's definitely shrewd. I can't fault him for that. But it doesn't look like he is any way also serving. audience that's watching him on TV very much. There are some nights where I, people online sometimes will say something about Jimmy that I will say it proves to me they have no idea about Fallon or just talent. They'll say this guy's not talented. No, the guy is talented beyond belief.

It's just some nights he's not using his talent, which is the impressions with the video, the tape pieces used to do on 1230, the song and dance. If anybody says this man's not talented, go to. to YouTube and watch a Saturday Night Live audition. Unbelievable talent with that guys. There are some days where it seems like he's not using what the public wants to really see. But, yeah.

Well, I would say this. Look, and I've said him over and over. The guy is staggeringly talented. And he used it in interesting ways before. Like, certainly when he was in the late night show and when he started this show and the night show, he was doing traditional things that you would see. that also could play on digital. He would do the instruments.

He would do slow jamming the news. He would do a lot of things like that that are more traditional comedy-centric kind of things. I see less of that and more of kind of stumpy things with the host, with the guest and all that, which is a different thing. But it's playing, he's getting him followers. So why would they change?

I think they're thinking. long term here. I think that's what they're thinking. This is what we need to do to stay relevant over the long term. I just wish they would do more sketches like Carson Mighty Carson. Jimmy is a sketch

performer. I mean, come on. Yeah, phenomenal. Well, part of what I continue to marvel at is the quality of guests that Fallon gets on his show are insane. He gets the most followed, popular, highest- The hottest people for that

audience is what he's getting. It's not even for that audience, Bill. He gets A-list celebrities that don't even, yeah, that don't even go beyond the digital audience. They're selling, I think they're pushing the notion that we have 30 million followers. And that's going to play to any manager or agent or representative for any of these people. Yes. Don't worry about the TV so much.

He's going to get you on this thing with 30 million followers. Well, that's the thing is that I do wonder if we're trying, while trying to nail down exactly what it is that is causing him to maybe have a different approach than he used to be, is that he will get these people on his show no matter what. When he has these people, the show assumes, all right, we're going to get the following we need. So we don't necessarily need to do all the extra work because we just have the biggest stars in the world. They're always going to come here. I mean, they talk about the athletes who win any championship, the championships, the champions always come to Fowland. Like that's the thing. They lean on. They definitely, I mean,

with the Odyssey. I mean, they had a whole weaker group of shows. I just think maybe I'm off on this and maybe it doesn't bother them at all like Leno. I mean, to my knowledge, Fallon's tonight show has not been nominated for writing or for Best Show in

quite a while, just like Leno's show there was a bunch of years where it didn't. And I just, I would think that they would want to maybe try a little harder because I definitely think that the talent is there. That's an interesting. story because a few years ago, I can't remember three, four, five years ago, Jimmy did a big thing for the, for the voters, made a big, big, big pitch for the Emmy voters. And he invited me to come. And I mean, they liked him. And it was a real effort, really big, big, big time effort. And he got nothing out of it. He got, he got nothing out of it. So I think they feel like, well, that, that group doesn't like us. So we're going up against guys that that they can,

siter, more relevant hip or whatever, and they're going to just dominate in those categories, and we're not going to get anywhere with that. So I don't see them really trying very hard for that. And I don't think that's – I just wonder if they're why they can't do a little of both. It would maybe, you know, be a little – if the show feels like it's not as creative as it could be. People want to see the 1230 show, at least elements of doing the pre-tapes, doing sketches. And I mean, I mean, Letterman stopped getting nominated for certain things.

he stopped going to rehearsal and stop. He was like, Latterman was the funniest person behind that desk, but he was definitely phoning it in for some years. Definitely. He stopped doing all kinds of stuff that he did all the time. Can I tell you what my favorite thing that Jimmy Fallon did in the last month or so,

which I wish they would do more of, which was that he read this, or he played this news story of this woman, I think she was like on the QVC or something like that, selling something, and she mistakenly said the word blowjob. And then as a result of that, after playing the clip, the following show, or a few shows later, whatever it was, they brought the woman on and they had fun with her.

And I feel like that was a moment where it's like, okay, we could actually focus in on like the everyday person and have some fun and make fun of a bit that everybody's talking about. Like, I think that that's a thing that I do miss, even if they don't go back to like slow jam the news. That's a little letterman like, I think, having the average person on like that. Yeah, like the civilian thing. Ellen was really good at that Johnny Carson was great.

Dave did it for quite a while back on that. NBC show in early CBS. Well, but how did they handle it, John? John, how did they handle it? They couldn't, they couldn't, they had to bleep it, right? I mean, I thought they did a really good, because she kept saying, like, at one point she said something to the effect of like, oh, no, like I, like, when she was describing, like, why she went under the desk and she was like, like, I had to go down.

And then Fallon was like, no, no, no. Like, so I think that there was like, it was good interplay. It felt like to me, like sometimes Jimmy Fallon is above it all. and I felt like this is more of like for the everyday person. And that's where I think he's at his mess because he's just a genuinely nice guy who's so personable when he wants to be. And like I just, I love getting to see that in that moment.

So like I would love more of that. Well, let's let's tell them to do it. It sounds good. That's what we're doing for. I'm sure that would work. Yeah. All right. Let's pivot over to Byron Allen.

So Bill, you wrote a piece celebrating Byron's 20th anniversary in time. I wasn't celebrating it, but yes. I think he wasn't celebrating it yes he is celebrating yes okay sounds good all right well it sounds like you got a little bit of a scoop there that this was time by from Byron Hall so this was basically my question

I mean I thought to myself okay how on earth is this guy getting a primetime two hour anniversary special for a show that wasn't even on CBS I mean all the show what he's celebrating goes back 20 years of syndication, not on CBS. And how does he get two hours of prime time? It's like fall season now. Like, what, how did this happen?

And I just, I knew a person I could check with. And it was part of the deal. It was put when he gotten, apparently when he made the deal that he would get this 20 year anniversary because that was in his head. Byron thinks about all this kind of stuff. He's a smart man. I will never. He's a businessman.

Absolutely. He really is very smart. aren't intrude. So, you know, that's, that to me was another aspect of what CBS is doing here. I mean, okay, they, they were losing money on Colbert. That's their theory. And not the policy, they say the politics weren't relevant. Okay. But if we take them at their word and they're losing money and now they're putting on this show and they, you know, making a pittance, really from, from the guy, because he's made $50 million. For 52 weeks. of an hour of network time,

four nights a week. Five nights a week. He has five nights a week. That's insane. You could sell vasomatic commercials and make money. That's incredible. $15 million. And he's paying only $5 million for the second hour.

$5 million. That is peanuts. So I don't know for sure that he didn't pay at least something extra for the prime time. But he did buy it. And CBS sold an hour of their prime time for this thing that they didn't, that isn't theirs. Byron is a genius at getting people to watch his product and really display what it might not be there, which is that CBS gave him the show, just like when he had the Byron Allen show and he would go to these press jackets

with Harrison Ford and tape these pieces and make it look like that these were guests on his show that were scheduled guests when he was just going. to like all the other critics. He was very good at framing the stuff. I have to say, when we originally talked about how the show was going to go, I said how the ratings were going to be. I said, I am not going to discount Byron Allen ever.

The show is ever green. There might be an audience for that. And I mean, we're going to get to this, but he is done very well. I have to say, yeah, it played out pretty well because clearly there's just an audience that just is to be mildly amused or whatever is fine with them.

They're fine. They're fine with that. Well, I have a question, though. We just, just while we jump to this, is it the audience that leaves the TV on that happens to leave it on during

Byron Allen? Of course. That would count. Of course. It counts. But I guess I like, I wish there was a way to discern between like how many people are seeking out Byron Allen's programming?

You know, when I first was writing on TV, the ratings really were so basic the way they did it that, You literally could have fallen asleep and the dog could be watching for two hours in the living room. And it would record as watching. Now there's people meters. So you have to sort of, you're prompted to say, no, I'm still awake. Like you do have to check in.

You do have to check in a little bit. So it can't have like nobody alert in the room. I don't think you can do that exactly. Yeah. And I don't claim that it's all that. But I think it's partially. I'm watching. I was on CBS or whatever, whether 10 o'clock show.

And I watched the local news came on. I watched that. And now this is coming on. I don't know how much they get, you know, people who initiate viewing to watch Byron. That's probably not very big because you don't see him doing very well on digital. But, you know, for what he's doing and what their purpose was, which was to not lose money, he's serving a function for them that they can find very defensible. Okay, if we lost this kind of money, he's doing maybe half the rating, that half the audience that had,

Colbyr, I'd say, maybe half, maybe a little less than half. Okay, that isn't terrible. It's not nothing. They do have some circulation there, and they can run promos for their CBS shows and that. So they can probably get some advantage of that. I just think, and this will be interesting to watch, they made the deal with him for one year when this deal him up. It was a one-year deal. And if I'm CBS at this point, I would say, Byron, you got to up the ante a little. You know, because I'm telling you, that is a very low price. And they were

just basically giving it away because they said, oh, now we aren't losing $40 million, as they said. So, you know, for them, okay, we lost 40 and we gained 15, so it's a $65 million deal for us. That sounds more like it. I just want to enter one thing I do want to mention. In terms of stand-up comedians getting visibility on prime on television on late night it is such a gift for a lot of funny people that have never gotten this much exposure at that um 1130 time slot like this so um yes some of the shows are from years ago but i mean he's done he's at his sound stage yeah he's done hundreds like at least over a hundred new ones and um i i do like that he's giving stand-up comics um especially a lot of ones that are just up-and-comin ones um exposure Yeah, and the new one is the first half hour, and then he has the second half hour, which may have run 4,000 times in syndication, but most people didn't see it. So, okay, it's now on a network, and they see it's just the same thing, and maybe the comic is sort of an older comic, or in some cases, a deceased comic, which happens.

But, oh, he's telling a sort of mildly funny story, and that's okay. You know, it's not, people go to comedy clubs all the time and see mediocre comics, so it's not awful. I'll also be curious to see if he maybe starts paying for more promotion on CBS, like during the NFL on CBS. They do a lot of CBS programming. We see them oftentimes promoting CBS primetime shows like Survivor and stuff like that. Yeah, I'd be curious like to see if we start maybe getting some of those Byron Allen promos. And that would be interesting to me. But yeah, just a fascinating story. and I'm very interested in following it all year long. Let's jump over to Saturday Night's Season 52 debut.

We're recording us following the season premiere with Jalen Brunson and Katzai. Interesting booking to start the season. Season starting about a week early because Jalen Brunson, NBA player, the season starting soon, so they'd be in Media Day this week, and he wouldn't have been able to host had it started traditionally the first week of October, but it was hugely popular in New York for being essentially the captain of the New York Knicks and the Knicks winning the championship for the first time in 53 years.

So S&L leans hard into that for their premiere. Following the premiere, how are you feeling about S&L's debut and what we could look forward to this season? Well, I can't say it was anything but disappointing. It was not one of their best shows. And Jalen is a fantastic athlete. And as a performer, he's a very good basketball player. He doesn't have, it was interesting.

A friend of mine was a big Nick. fan when I said that Janel was going to host that I don't know and I said what do you mean because I know who he is I've watched some of their games but I don't know anything about him and he said well he's an incredibly low gear guy

like he's very low gear and I said oh that's not great that's really not great and that's what he was he was just low gear I mean they they tried to put him in basketball themed sketches and it still didn't rouse him

to be very you know committed to the bits and I can't blame him. He's not a performer. It's a very hard thing to do. Just stick a person in this who has never done it before. So I don't blame him. I just found and you explained well

why if they're going to use him, they had to use him in the premiere, okay? And he is a giant figure in success story in New York now. So yeah, okay, so they had to use him. It's unfortunate because the premiere is usually you know, a pretty big show for them. You know, and it was a disappointing show. I didn't think they wrote well for him or anybody else. Really, I thought

weekend update was pretty good. I thought the featured people were very good. They were very, very good. And that made me laugh a lot. So, I mean, it wasn't a hopeless show. I just felt like it was a kind of a man. It was, you know what it was. It was a half court shot that didn't even hit the rim. Well, I wouldn't go that far. I do think. that premieres over the last few years have been pretty bad. And that's something I wrote about for Late Nader last week where I talked about that he might be

what we need for a premiere. And the thing is, I know this about Jalen Brunson. I'm a big basketball fan. I know him. He's not this like boisterous person. He may be a good leader in the locker room, but we're not going to see that on stage. But I do think that type of host is exactly what Saturday Night needs

to start a season. I think that with them having no preseason unlike a lot of professional sports teams, it takes a while for them to ramp up. And when you have a host that doesn't take away a lot of the focus from the cast, it sort of forces the cast to push themselves in a premiere. And for that reason,

I felt like this was stronger than what we had seen the last few years. Am I walking away saying it was a great show? Who were the people the last three years, John? Who were the hosts the last few years? Yeah. So we could start, well, we had a few years back after the writer strike, we had Pete Davidson.

Then that was a little bit of a situation where the show could not get it together because it was under circumstances that were more difficult. Then Gene Smart was sick for the start season. I remember. Yeah. And then last year was Bad Bunny, who was pretty decent as a sketch performer the following the previous season and the finale as a musical guest.

He popped up and they're like, oh, we can see this. It was a second time hosting. But all the sketches were sort of written around like his voice and him working with Marcello and like using Spanish language. And it just like, it was not a good premiere. I think people didn't enjoy it. So the last few years have been. you're right

really really difficult and I just felt like here we go like now we're in a situation where we don't have to like force the host into the starring role and we could let this cast grow from there and I think that even if you didn't see

those results in the premiere I think you will see them through the season but Mark would love to know your take on how you felt about what we saw in this first episode I think the studio audience was terrible I thought that they were bad from the cold open you were there it's like if you're a Knicks fan you're at MSG and you're going to root for your team

and support them with your laughter and it just seemed that there might have been people that were there just for the Knicks, Knicks fans. I knew that there were some people there that were wearing Nix jerseys, which I love the Nix. I love the jerseys, but you have to be there for the show. I did get the sense in the cold open. They did not know who the actor was that was playing Mandami, who has hosted the show previously. He is very talented, very funny, not as much energy as I think maybe required for the role.

And I think that that was something that really hurt the momentum from the, the moment and it wasn't until really, you know, James Austin Johnston comes in and especially Ashley that everything obviously picked up, but Ashley for sure, I mean, man, I mean, put her at the open. Obviously, they have to, like, they have to reveal her. But I think that was tough. I think the writing was fine. It just for whatever reason, the audience from the cold open on just seemed not with the show. I thought the monologue, the writing was really solid too. And I think they did as well as they could for somebody that just was not a high-energy guy. And I also think it's really tough for people across the country to watch a host that they do

not know who they are. Now, Michael Phelps, Tom Brady, Barclay, Jordan, household names. This guy is famous in New York and sports fans, but is not a household name. Nobody knew who Travis Kelsey was before he hosted. And it's going to, it's. But he was good. Kelsey is talented. He had energy.

He had energy that he brought to the show. He was good. But nobody knew who he was. He wasn't dating Taylor Swift, then. No. He was not a household name. I mean, I think that there's, there is something to be said about just leaning into the fact that this is a New York institution. And that's why I have such a big problem with Mom Dani not appearing as himself in the cold open.

They might have asked him. You never know. I mean, I'm sure they did. And I'm sure he said no. And I honestly think it was a bad decision. Because I think, like, you know, there's not many of these institutions left that people care about. And for me, we got into like a pretty spicy argument about this over on my podcast at the Saturday Night Network this week because I was like, I couldn't believe that they started

off with Rami Yusuf as him when if we had opened up with the real mayor of New York welcoming us into the season where you have this like new star and face. I mean, it would have been a huge pop and Bill, like I was just thinking it was such a shame. No, and Giuliani did it all the time. Let's face it. He did it. He was mayor when he hosted the show, right? He was here. He was mayor when he hosted a show. did the show. Bloomberg was on updates. But Mamdani was on Kimmel this week. It was and he's good. He's good.

He's good. He's he's good. He's very likable. Yeah, I think that really would have helped. I wonder if dress just played better for whatever reason, but it definitely would have made, for me, if I would have put Jeremy on as the cold open to Tucker Carlson and kill in the cold open.

Because the cold open is the thing that propels the momentum. And he, him and jane killed on update uh they did fantastic uh and if the if the if the uh if the show if the um cold open isn't getting isn't there it's gonna it's gonna affect the rest of the show i gotta tell you i like the theory that the that the there was a nick audience i think that's true in the way because when i'm sitting in the audience at kimball and mondami comes out that place went insane okay he is wildly popular he is wildly wildly popular and yet you know the The idea of him even wasn't exciting for this audience.

Like they really did not jump the idea, oh, it's a Mombani character. But they would have had it been actually. If it was him, it would have made a big difference. Yeah. And the thread there is that he was one of the speakers at the Nix championship parade. And his speech went hugely viral online for being this moment where he's talking about how important it was for the city to finally have this championship. So I just think, you know, it's.

It's one of those things that, like, I remember, like, Ed Koch coming on and, like, giving the key to the city to Belushi. Like, I think there's, like, certain moments about the show that are really important and I think it was a missed opportunity. I will also say, Mark, I think that despite the reservations that maybe the three of us have about the premiere, I think that the premiere was really good to show the up and coming new class of Saturday Night Live. But they weren't outstanding this week, John. They were not. I disagree. I think like we had. Grace is going to be a superstar.

Grace is going to be a superstar. I mean, that the other very funny, talented woman, I forget her name. I'm so sorry. This is bad of me. Veronica?

No, the African American. Oh, so you know. Yeah. She is great. They didn't really give her as much as they did Grace.

No, he didn't use her. But grace, the way that they used her, I could just see that I think she's going to be huge. on the show. Well, that's what I was talking about because in that sketch that we had the cat's eye sketch where they were like performing or competing to be the next, winners the next season, you had this sort of trio of Veronica, Grace, and Jane that I feel like

was popping harder than anything we saw in the entire episode where they were hilarious together. They were really showing that this could be something that's really important for the show. And I just feel like the women on this show right now in the cast are incredibly strong. Veronica, yeah, Sarah. They all, Ashley is a rock star. I mean, they all, Jane, I mean. The Jane is emerged, yeah, for sure. But I want to say one thing.

I've never seen a show before, and I defer to John's expertise on this, when the musical act didn't sing. That was very interesting to me. It famously happened once. What? They, yeah, it famously happened once with Jessica Simpson's sister. But Ashley, that's right. But for this, they had six.

But that was a scandal. But for this, there were six members that are in the group. Four of them were there. And I think that it was basically, they were acknowledging that for one of the tracks they had laid down. And then for the others where they were actually singing. Because when they were dancing, they definitely were acknowledging them we laid this track down. But I think that at least what they were going for is when they were singing and they weren't dancing as much, they had the mics up. Sean, is that what you got out of it?

well I like the energy but I do think that the performance was sad like it was hard to watch it to be honest it was really hard to why I don't know because it was like uh it like there's a lot of hypocrisy happening with like how like what is music really on the show and what it means like how but I think that um I understood the booking strategy I wrote about this where I feel like you had this like pure New York host and we're going to get this group on it that's a global girl group. Younger people love them.

Yeah, and you have the flavor of like, hey, this show has become more of an international show. So there's a reason to watch whether you're as local as can be or as global as can be.

So I think it was like the perfect pairing for the premiere. However, I don't know that they did the show any good service because it was a, it was something to be hold. Like I really was like watching this.

I was like, someone texted me during hooty-frudy and said, this might be the funniest thing that's on the show tonight. That's what I mean, it just felt like a kind of a parody of what they were trying. You know, like it didn't feel like they were doing it so much they were making fun of the way other people do it or something.

Yeah, it was a little bit bizarre. Anyways, look, premieres are always polarizing. It's always like a little bit of a mixed bag. We really can't tell the tenor of a season just from one episode. Oh, no, of course not. Yeah. But the whole, the group that was announced, the first was it, five hosts were announced, right? four maybe four host or nests it was that was an interesting grouping to me

I mean it was I think I think the like we had we sort of looked at it as like a little bit of like a weird sandwich where on the outskirts we had Jalen Brunson and Indy Navarretti which were interesting bookings that were like okay this is kind of fun and in the middle we're two two time hosts who are certainly not well regarded among the super fans of the show that we're just like all right we're going to give them another shot let's see what we got so That was five. That's the part. I was like... There were definitely not even the super fans, people that were online, the casual fans that were, I think, puzzled by some of the choices of host and music. But you know what? A good cast will always make up for a bad host. I just, you go back to any old season of the show where they're really in like what we call golden eras and you watch episodes where hosts just don't bring it and the cast just elevate bad material. So I think what we have here is like, I'm not saying that Shane or Dakota are going to be bad. see how they go. Obviously, they've had, like, mixed bags in their first two episodes that Davey chose did. But, like, it puts the pressure on for a cast who's really trying to find their form. And I'm excited to see what they're going to do.

But don't you think that the most memorable shows, the host is really good? I mean, like, seems like to me, when a host is gigantically big, I don't like Tom Hanks or somebody when he first comes on, you know, or Steve Martin, you know, with Dan Aykroyd, you know, it's like the host is really part of the ensemble. Sure, those are the legendary episodes that you talk about when you're ranking greatest episodes of all time. I think you look at the ones

where the cast and the host were just at the peak of their powers and everything just came together. But I do think that some of the great eras that we've had, like in the late 80s or the mid-2000s, like you look at those and there's like a lot of stretches of hosts that I wouldn't necessarily would say

be on anyone's top list, but episode after episode, you get consistency from the cast. And I think that that's the position that I think the show put this cast in for the start of 52. So I'm curious to see how it will come together. What I am excited about, and again, we'll probably talk about this when we get together in October,

which might be right before this episode. But the Indy Navarretti episode, obviously hugely popular coming off of obsession this summer. And it's one of the only shows we've ever had that will be taking place on Halloween night. The last time we had this was back in 2020, where it was John Malaney. And it was during COVID. So it really wasn't a full, like, let's lean into. Halloween. So the previous episode of that, 1992 with Catherine O'Hara.

So it's been that long since we've had like a full on Halloween night for Saturday Night Live. It's fun. I really hope the show leans into it as much as they possibly get. Yeah, that's that and that's a great booking for that. That really is good. Yeah. Yeah. It's very exciting. Well, it was really exciting to get back together with the two of you for our first round table. I can't stand how exciting it's been. Yeah, I can't believe. I mean like, you know, when Seth took seven weeks off, the Daily Show took five weeks off. Oh my.

It's been a weird summer with all of that. That is, yes. That's a whole other thing about what's going on with Seth. I mean, I didn't find that very positive. It can't be good. Yeah, we'll see. But hopefully we'll get to talk a little bit more about Seth, yeah, that he's back in the swing of things when we get together next time in October.

But if you enjoy our roundtables, let us know. We always love getting feedback here at Late Nighter. Of course, Bill is working on so many incredible articles. Anything you're cooking up now, Bill, that you want to tell the listeners about? the anniversary, I guess it's 30th anniversary of Joan Rivers show when she went to Fox. All 10 months or whatever it was. Yes, but they built the network around her. They literally built the network around her and they built an apartment for her under the soundstage.

And it was the whole story. And the franchise going beyond her, which a lot of people don't remember that the, franchise stuck around. That's how Arsenio got his start, really. That's right. Fascinating. I cannot wait to read that. Mark, you are right in the middle of another new season of Inside Late Night.

So really exciting to be back and listening to all your conversations with so many great late night. Yes. It was fantastic talking to Brian Stack about his 19 years at Conan, his time at Colbert. It was a trick talking to Mike Sweeney, you know, head writer of Conan and just amazing, amazing, funny, funny talent. And going back is when he was doing warm up on Conan's show before he was a writer and I was a teenager in the audience. I was the one laughing. And then we have people like David Mandel coming up who wrote, we talk about Saturday Night Live. He was the showrunner for Veep and some really, really good people, Ian McStone Graham, also another Saturday Night Live.

So we have some good people coming up. And also I just launched recently in the last couple months a Johnny Carson substack. It's called Here's Johnny Carson, where twice a week I put out Johnny Carson. things, details, the stuff that people don't know that aren't in my book that weren't featured on my podcast. It is free. We do free articles. There's a membership as well category. But yeah, here's Johnny Carson on Substack. That's amazing, Mark. We are busy over the Saturday Night Network, covering all things SNL, which you can find over at Late Nighter. We post all of our podcasts there. I'm also writing a lot more for Late Nighter this year. So trying to contribute some SNL articles

and opinion pieces. So I just wrote one about Ben Marshall and who I thought had a really good premiere. and I'm excited. He did. He's going to do moving forward. So, yeah, we'll be fun to continue to cover the show week after week. So thank you, Mark. Thank you, Bill, for joining us. On behalf of everyone here at Late Nighter, my name is John Schneider, and we will see you next time, everybody.

Have a good one.