Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Pam Thomas

Episode Date: May 6, 2025

Producer/Manager Pam Thomas joins Mark to discuss discovering some of the greatest icons of sketch comedy including Mike Myers, Chris Farley, Maya Rudolph, and Kids in the Hall.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today's guest is producer-manager, Pam Thomas, who is responsible for discovering some of the greatest icons of sketch comedy, including Mike Myers, Chris Farley, Maya Rudolph, and Kids in the Hall. Now, it's time to go inside late night. Pam Thomas, thanks for talking with us. Oh, sure. It's my pleasure. I'm really excited to talk to you. First of all, I am, as the listeners, I know a huge commentator nerd, so I have known your name for the longest time. And to be able to talk to you, just somebody, there's very few people. I might be able to count them on one hand that has Lord Michael's ear, that there's a recommendation that, I mean, two times sight unseen hired them on the cast. I can't really, you're one. in a gazillion that he trust your ability. How did you get his trust? How did

that start? Well, it started when I was a casting director and he was doing some, he wanted to do some casting in Toronto, so gave me the job and I brought in a lot of people to the Windsor Arms Hotel and he liked everybody. And so then he said, well, maybe you could

take a look in Chicago for me. And then I set up some showcases in New York in L.A. and you just went from there. And, you know, he, he, I don't, I don't talk to him very much anymore, but at that time, there weren't a million comics out there. There were very few with very specific acts like Rob Schneider, for instance. He did Elvis with a hook, fish hook. He had a lot of, you know, Adam Sandler, David Spade, all these guys. They had very specific acts. And then if you go and see somebody that's doing characters in a sketch comedy show, it was more difficult for them just to get some. scene because they didn't have an act. They had characters. But everybody had to come up with one or two characters. So is the first person that you got on this show? Was that Mike Myers in August of 1988, you saw him perform at the 15th anniversary of Second City, Toronto? I'd seen him

many times. As a matter of fact, we're both from Scarborough. And he's reminded me, although I don't believe this, that I cast him in a Bell Canada commercial when he was a kid. And I said, I don't think I cast you when you were 10. I'm not that much older than you, but I've known I'm from Toronto for a long time. Yeah, definitely. I've heard him tell the story and he gives you attribution. I know sometimes it'll say Martin's short, sometimes you, but I've heard him tell the story several times and he said that you saw him. And he definitely is, I've met him a couple times and he's very modest, but he does say that this particular show, he just destroyed. And I mean, you have all these famous people on stage, and he's not an, you know, he's not a known name. And it's this

four-hour show. And I've heard him talk about it, how he had a, he didn't have a dressing room. He had a change in the stairwell and all this stuff. And he's just like, you know, frustrated. And he's like, you know what? I'm just going to go out there and destroy. And I guess that's what happened. What do you, what stands out? What about him performing on that night? Well, fearless. I always look for fearless. And he wasn't intimidated by the other people that were on the stage with a lot more experienced and characters and joke writing. And he just went for it. And that's the same thing with Chris Farley, too, when I saw him on stage. And I thought, his choices were just so insane that we were laughing our heads off. I was traveling at that point with Marcy Klein and

Mike Shoemaker. And we were at the show. And it was a very similar situation. It's somebody that's so fearless and just goes for it. And, you know, you could always rein somebody in. But you can't get more if they're not willing to be that free in loose. And obviously, not everybody is. So when Mike Myers did his show, this was at the end of August of 1988. Really? Yeah, I was just looking at some newspaper articles. And everyone was there for the 15th anniversary, all the big names except for John Candy and Dan Akroy.

But you had Martin Short, Andrea Martin, Catherine O'Hara, Dave Thomas, Joe Flair, Eugene Levy. Robin Duke was there It was this amazing group of people So is that very night Or is it the next day When do you call Lord Michaels To let him know about this young Canadian Who might be right for the show?

Well, it would be the next day, for sure. I saw somebody that you've got to see and meet with And the same happened with A couple of other people But I'm not saying I brought in tons of people Just and Lauren put them on the show but there are very specific acts that I said,

this person's amazing. There's, like with Maya Rudolph, I wrote him a letter. Like, not a bio, just here's what this amazing person can do. And she wasn't into it for the first time, but when he met her, he saw what I saw. So she's one of the few people that didn't have to audition. That's amazing. And we talked on the phone, and I don't think I knew this or not.

But then initially, Maya Rudolph turned down. doing the show that she said she didn't think she was ready is that correct she had her bags packed she called me 7 a.m i said so at the airport right i'm not going what she said no i don't i don't feel like i'm ready to go i think i need more time so she did a show with stephen botchco i think it was called city hospital and she played a nurse and a drama and i guess that's what click to that she was going to be a dramatic actress that was going to do sitcoms or one hours that she was ready to go. It was her dream to do that show. Now, how does that work? Because there's very few people that will turn down an offer from a show. I can think of, you know, Bonnie Hunt, I know that she

wanted to bring in some, a writer or two, and that was not. Jennifer Anderson turned it down. But how does that work when you call a Marcy Kline, Mike Schemaker, and Lauren, and say that your client doesn't, is turning that opportunity down. It just doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. But the thing is, there's so many other people out there that if one or two people say it's not right for me or they get staged right or anything of that nature, because it's a big deal. So a lot of people might be freaked out that that's going to be their big opportunity.

And then other people just go and went and their naturals. So I always told people that were signing up going, Oh, look at that contract. It's five years long, exclusive, and I could never do anything else. I would always say, if you don't want to be there, they don't want you there. If you don't want to be there, there's so many people in line to get that job. I give Maya Rudolph so much credit because this was her, she said it was her dream job, but she didn't think she was ready. And Will Fort is the only other person I know that they offered it to, and he said no, he just couldn't. He just was in such as disbelief.

And he came back the next year and was hired. So was it one of those things that the show told you that, well, if Ms. Rudolph changes her mind, we would love to have her back? Or how does that offer get revisited and accepted? It's revisited by me saying to Lorne that she felt that she wasn't ready yet, even though I feel she's ready. And I would love for you to meet her. She doesn't feel like she's ready. And sometimes people would be, remember, there was an audition set up. in Chicago, and there were a couple of people.

And right before the audition, they just freak out. I had one client that was going to audition. I'm not going to tell you who it is, because you wouldn't know her anyway, I think. But she just froze. And she said, I don't think I can do it. I don't think I can do it. And then she wrote a bunch of new material,

even though we'd already studied and worked on all our jokes and how she was going to segue into different characters, and she ruined it for herself. So that happens sometimes She didn't get a meeting They were interested potentially But she didn't get to meet with Lorne Michaels or anything

No Because if they're scared to meet with Lorne How are they going to be on a show every week It's true Tina Fay famously wrote in her book Bossy Pants and I know who the person is And I'm not going to say who the person's name But there was an individual

Who did very well and met with Lauren And that meeting just crumbled And she I guess was completing his sentences And I've heard other people talk about the story as well. I can tell you afterwards, if you know, I don't know if you know the person. They're not, the people that are listening, unless you're a big comedy improv nerd and stuff, or maybe spent time in Chicago, I don't know if you know who this person is, but did you ever have that happen? Like, you had a client that met with Lauren and didn't get the gig. I mean,

it's rare, but it will happen occasionally. No, not anybody I was managing at the time. That's good. I was also working as a consultant, and that's how I would fly around with Mike Shoemaker and Marcy Klein, looking at different cities and looking at different showcases that we set up or that were set up for us to go and see. And some people I wanted to manage. And then others, well, most of them were with Grilstein, actually. Brilstein was called Brilstein Gray at the time. Now it's Brilstein Entertainment Partners. And they have great taste. They had everybody at the time. It seemed, it seemed, I've heard people, these are not my words, but I've heard people, that Mr. Brilstein and Gray are both left this earth.

And I met Bernie Brilstein, very nice man. I've heard people say conflict of interest. It seemed like if you went on that show and you got signed that you were going to be managed by them, there were very few people that weren't. Is that safe to say? Yeah, I think you're right about that. And at a certain point, after I got Chris Farley on the show, I thought, well, wait a minute, I'd like to manage some of these people that I've found on stage.

in a club. And so that's when I started doing that. And I had an office at Universal Studios on the lot and started managing people. Were you there for Mike Myers' first show on camera? This was January of 1989. It was John Malkovich hosted with Anita Baker as a musical guest. And it was one of my favorite, favorite times watching the show. I remember. Oh, yeah, there's something. I know. I know too much. But they did this sketch. And it was, and I only know this because I asked, I got to talk to Al Franken about this. It was written, by Al Franken and Mike Myers. I didn't know Mike Myers

had anything to do with the writing, but Franken, Al told me 100% it was him and Mike wrote this sketch called You Mock Me. And it was his very, very first time ever on the show. And I think he had like just a line or two. But, and then I think on the fourth episode,

his fourth episode, he did Wayne's World. But it happened very quickly. Were you there for his first, when he did the initial shows? He didn't even have an office. He said he was by the elevator bank just kind of like sitting around and didn't even have an office.

office at this point. No, I couldn't go to all the shows. I mean, I have family too. So that's one of the reasons I didn't continue with it was because going out to nightclubs and theater and it's all evening and you want to be with your kids. You don't want to be separated. And I think that's what Mike's going through now. He wanted to have a family for so long that he's not, he doesn't want to miss a moment of it. And he's such a proud dad. It's lovely. It's great. And he can work whenever he wants, but unless you can self-generate that material like he is able to with his vehicles, that is extremely

hard in that in Los Angeles and New York for a performer, correct? Yes, but he's living his dream now. Yes. He always wanted a family and he's married to a lovely woman, Kelly, and he's got this beautiful family and he, you know, he's such a proud

dad, he tells me funny things that they say or shows that he takes them to. He's just having a time of his life and he sends me pictures of them frolicing rolling around wrestling and he's just you know he's doing exactly what he wants to be doing and he can support everybody

is it one of those things for me it's unbelievable to think about that someone like a Mike Myers or even a Dana Carvey has said every week you think you're going to get fired I mean Mike Myers seemed like he got everything all his sketches on sometimes it would be a little light here and there

depending on what would get cut from dress but if anybody's in a Hall of Fame in terms of the show he's in it But do you remember just talking him through those things when he had that in him that I'm not going to last? I mean, every week is going to be my last show. I never heard that from him. He had so many characters in his brain. He had so many backstories for them that they were real and he commits, obviously.

He really commits. So there's nobody going, what was that? It was, you know, what was the name of that character? A monkey? Oh, Myers did a monkey? No, it was a German character. Oh, Dieter. Oh, Schrockets. There you go.

These Sprockets, yes, thank you. I love Sprockets. That was really funny sketch. He had all these characters that he brought. And that's one of the things about the growlings people, too, that they have character sets. They've done it on stage, like the cheerleaders that Will Ferrell and Sherry O'Terry did. That was from the stage. You know, John Lovitz had, you know, his character. Developed on the Crowling stage and same with Chris Quattain.

So you really need those characters. I mean, the standups, I mean, some of the standups have done very well, but it's definitely not having that skill set a little bit more challenging. But I know Mike Myers said when you saw him do the 15th anniversary of Second City that he did Wayne and he had been doing Wayne Campbell, I guess, since he was a teenager. In Toronto, he was doing it. I saw it on Second City at Second City in Toronto. So that was a while before. How different was that? Because if you watched the very first Wayne's World sketch that got on SNL,

it kind of organically grew into a little bit, a little different. How was that when he was doing Wayne on stage versus when he was doing it on SNL and it blew up? Well, you know, he's such a pro. He really hones his characters. And they become more and more believable rather than a parody of a character, which you might see on second city stage.

or the growlings or whatever. A lot of stand-ups came in and they didn't have a whole ton of characters but they had a persona like Norm McDonnell. Did you know Norm at all? Did you recommend him? I think he did Letterman and maybe, I think it was Sandler

told Jim Downey you should hire this guy. But I know through Canada, he was a lot of people were looking at him at the time. Yeah, he was very popular stand-up comedian. And he worked at Yuck Yucks and, you know, toured around a bit. He's hilarious. He was really, really a funny man. Were you at the improv set where Tim Meadows accidentally got hired in Chicago?

Because everyone was there to see Chris Farley. And Meadows has told me, I've heard him, I think talk about it as well, is that they were not there to see him, but he had this killer improv set. It might have been at I.O. I don't know if it was at Second City. I know he was doing the stage show. Right. We did go to I. I forgot about that.

But he said it was just like he had. this killer set and it was a complete accident they were not looking to hire him at all but he was just he just destroyed i don't know if you were there that springs a bell i don't remember that set but i do remember seeing him on stage and he's very unique artist works on stop and even small parts and you know huby's halloween okay he just he has small parts in a lot of he didn't break out like will feral or adam but everything he's in is so funny. Every character that he creates is so funny. Now he's got a new sitcom that's been picked up to series, DMV, and everybody's really excited about that. On CBS, I know, it's a big

time slot. It's him and I forget who else. There's somebody else that's in it as well. I just Well, there's a Canadian named Jerry D. And he had his own series in Canada. And then there's Tony Cavalero, I think, is his name. And he's been on the gemstones. He's, uh, Adam Devine's sidekick gay sidekick friend i don't know if you don't yeah i i read from the groundlings i saw him on the groundlings first and he plays he plays pretty close to one character but each time it's slightly skewed it they got a great cast yeah i think i think that that's great because timettos has worked i mean he's always in things and i know he does stand up but what a vehicle were you there the first time that chris farley was visiting this show this was before he was

his first show would have been, I guess, the fall of 1990, Kyle McLaughlin hosted the premiere with, I think it was Chenay O'Connor was the musical guest that year. But his first actual visit was when Deborah Winger hosted the show the season before. It was near the end of the season. It was Rob Schneider's very first time visiting the show as well. But I don't know, were you there for the first time that Farley laid eyes on the set? I mean, he just, he couldn't believe he was there.

No, but I talk to him regularly because he, He would make a lot of jokes about how he was kept waiting for eight hours. And I said, well, just suck it up. You're going to have to wait. And then I was in Toronto at the time. And I remember he came up and did Tommy Boy up there and we hung out. And I went down and see him on the set. We talked a lot.

And, you know, he was nervous, but he just could pull out characters that you would never imagine. I mean, look at that classic when he was dead. dancing. Oh, sure. That was very early on. That was Patrick Swayze, October of 1990. It was one of those things. That was classic. I mean, it normally takes a couple seasons for somebody to get over, but he got over with that sketch. And even when you saw him at Second City, he did, Bob Odenkirk wrote him the motivational speaker. And that later, you know, he did it a couple years later. And it still, when people, a lot of times do the greatest of all time sketches, it's normally on the number one list of sketches that got on that show. But he did that in the show that where you cast him. And, yeah, unbelievable. I know. He broke everybody up in that scene. I remember. I remember David Spade trying so hard not to laugh. You're right. It was him and Christina Apple. Yeah. And that line living in a van down by the river. And it was one of those things back then that Lauren Michaels would threaten to fire people if they broke up. He didn't want it to be Carol Burnett. But it was one of those things where it did not matter because it was so funny. And, you know, it was almost

never did they break and it was worthy of breaking because Farley was just so fun. Can you tell us a little bit about some of your favorite moments from him? A really nice, sweet man. Well, when I saw him, the first time I saw him is one of my favorite moments and we were

at Second City in Chicago and he came on and he just had kind of a, well, it wasn't really a bathing suit, it wasn't really a speedo and, you know, he's a big guy right? And he had on a bald page and he was a sailor mated with a whale

and he flopped on stage and the ballpate had water shooting out of the top of his head and he flopped on stage and then flopped off stage onto the floor. It was hysterical. I know it sounds so broad right now

describing it, but it came out of nowhere. And I thought, who is this guy? He's fearless. Did you go up to Chris the first time you saw him and introduce yourself

and said that you were with Saturday Night Live? Or how? Well, they knew we were there. Yeah, they always know we're there. So they knew that, yeah, I mean, he was, I mean, that was his dream. Did you, at what point did you, did you realize that John Belushi was Chris's hero? She, we never really talked about that. I mean, I knew John Belushi as well.

As a matter of fact, my ex-husband and I had dinner with him the night before and flew back to Toronto. And I was casting something. and I heard on the radio that he died. I thought, we were just with him. We were just with him. So I guess he left the dinner and went on to party hard. What was that dinner like? What was he during dinner?

Well, he's fine. He was a big presence. He wouldn't let us pay for our meal. Got sort of insulted that we wanted to pay for our own dinner. And it was a large table, Dan Aykbride, It's a large group of people. He was fine, but, you know, that dark side would probably hit around midnight or later, right?

Yes. Chris had a dark side, too, so. It was one of those things he worshipped Belushi. Yeah, it was. I was sort of a lot of comedians. Yes, but Farley, in terms of his sweetness and his, I mean, it just exuded on stage. I was going to mention,

Maya Rudolph, one of her, I would say probably her most, her strongest collaborator over at S&L as a writer, would have been Emily Spivey. And I didn't know this story until I talked to you. And I thought that this was kind of an amazing thing is, and for listeners, if you don't know or not SNL, if this is, for a writer and a performer, it's a dream for a lot of people, but it does not pay as much as a sitcom or anything in prime time. At the time, Emily Spidey, she was working on what show, was it? King of the Hill. She was under contract for King of the Hill. Okay. She was with ICM, and she'd been on Mad TV before that, and DeF Busucci and I talked about it,

and I said, I think I have an opportunity for her to go to half hour, primetime half hour, and he said, he said, okay, that's fine. You know, he would let her out of her contract, but her big dream was to be on SNL. And when I told her agent, I said, you know, I think that's what's going to happen. I've sent her material over who aren't really like everybody, loved the writing. And Maya really feels confident in her capturing her characters that she wants to do. They laugh so hard together.

And I remember the agent said, you're kidding me. You're going to take her out a prime time half hour and put her on S&L, not even close to money. He said, this is the blind leading the blog. And I said, hey, it's not my choice. This is what my client wants to do. And Emily Spivey got over there and did Bronx Beat and so many prolific sketches with Maya and never looked back. Right. Yeah, but for people that are trying to make money, the agents and stuff, it definitely seemed like a step backward.

Absolutely, because it's a dream. If somebody's a fan, like you, if somebody's a fan and that's what they really, really want to do. It doesn't matter that it's less money than anything and it's in New York and they're going to have to be on a four-story walk-up or whatever. Yeah, they laugh so hard. They had so much fun together. Can you take me back to the first time that you saw kids in the hall perform their stage show and what went through your head? Well, they were referred to me by a woman who worked at Second City at the time. And she said, have you heard of these guys? I said, no, I haven't. She said, they're really underground.

You've got to go see them. So I went with a Canadian executive who was working at NBC, Yvonne Fassan, was his name. And they were playing in a church basement, just a small group of people. And they just did these most insane characters, Farmers on heroin, I remember, was one of them. And just like, you know, the stuff that they wrote, you could never get away with now, you know, running fans. did you ever see that Scott Thompson yes I saw him not only do that but he did it on this stage show when he was going on tour yeah that would not no he couldn't cut away with that but he was doing it he was even doing that back then and yeah it was the comedy was very dark and very yeah it was

extremely different very different yeah and then they got into the rivoli and then a larger theater but people flew up to see them at the rivoli I remember Lou Adler Al Frank and Tom Davis at one show. Those are pretty big names. Big names. And so finally, on your opinion, on your recommendation, Lauren Michaels comes to see these gentlemen, did you think right away that they would translate to television or did you think that we have to make some adjustments or did you think it was pretty much all there? No, I thought it would translate to television because they had so much material already written. They had so many characters. They had full sketches. I mean, they ended up having writers come on the show. But Lauren can see the potential for sure. And then he took Mark and Bruce, right?

Yes, to write for SNL. That's right. And then Mark got on for, I don't know how long, not very long, brief time, right? He was later on the show. And Mike Myers left in January of it would have been 95 was his last show. And then Mark McKinney came in to basically, yeah, replace him. And yeah, there was little, little to no fanfare when Mike Myers, like Dana Carvey wanted to just kind of disappear quietly. It was a very tough year. They were, they were struggling for many, many reasons that year. But Mark came in and he was then, I think, on the show for another maybe two years, something like that. But yeah, kids in the hall, the pilot, I believe it was either released or they was shot sometime, I think it was released October of 1988. How

did that pilot go? What were your expectations? What stands out about that? Because obviously there's a gazillion pilots. And just, Morton Michaels wasn't as, didn't have as much power as he has now, but he was still a big name. He still had a lot of power. Yeah. He still had a lot of power. I mean, people wanted to work with them in Canada, no question. And the fact that he would back them up. But he said to me, you know, it's going to take time. It's not going to happen overnight. They were always asking me, well, when are we going to get this? only, when is the show going to happen? And I asked Lauren, I was pregnant at the time.

And Lord said, you know that baby that you're expecting? I said, yes. He said, that baby's going to be talking before this show, folks. And he was right. It was yours. It's amazing. She wasn't that. She was about two, I guess.

So. It's 1001 shows before they came back years later recently. They're doing these 20 episode seasons, and you were a producer. on the show, what was that like producing kids in the hall? And in terms of your knowledge and what you were able to bring to the show? I brought the deal to the show. That's what I can say. I think the real producers were people like Norm Hesuck. Sure. Gary Campbell. I think Brian Hart was on the show at that time. They had great writers working with them. Those are the real producers. And then Lord had Joe Forrestall came in from New York.

and he worked on the show for a while. It was hard for him to gel with them. Just different sensibilities, you know, but he did his best, I know. Did you bring in John Blancher to direct? He did about 90-some episodes. No, I did not. I did not.

I just wasn't sure because I hope this is okay to mention your public figure that you were married at one point to Dave Thomas, SCTV, so you knew all these people. Right. So I didn't know if you brought him in. And so Biddy came in and directed the majority of the shows. I thought he did such a fantastic job.

Yeah, John Blanchard, unbelievable. Yes, he's a character. Really? I've never. Very mysterious. If you could interview him, that would be a real clue. Oh, my, I would absolutely love that. So can you tell me what those tapings were like?

Because, you know, I would hear that they would actually have the house band that would play the theme song to kids in the hall every taping. What were those tapings like? Insane. people were lined up for blocks and blocks and blocks. They were patched. People would laugh at anything that they did. They loved them so much.

They had so many fans. It was such a vibe. It was really exciting to be there. Yeah, it's an amazing in terms of them getting those the five seasons, 20 episodes each season. I think the fifth one was 21 episodes. But, I mean, to get that and to be so prolific. And for something in Canada to be able to translate here and be as big, if not bigger, says so much about you and everybody that was on that team.

Oh, thanks very much. I mean, I got Broadway video and Lorne Michaels involved and HBO and CBC. So that was a nice group of people for me to introduce to each other and said, wouldn't this be a great show? And their first order was for 20 episodes. We were ecstatic. Unbelievable. And they have the talent and the characters.

Like, as you were saying, they were prepared to be able to generate that much. much material. And then Norm Hescock went over to Saturday Night Live and did a bunch of a couple of seasons from starting in 95, 96. He was over there. So Lauren Michaels gets this deal where he is going to be producing whoever, you know, Dave Letterman famously didn't get the Tonight Show. He's going to CBS. They have this open slot. Dave Letterman's going to be leaving on June in 93 and they needed a replacement for this show. And at what point, Lauren, it's going to be deciding who the host is. At what point does he go to you in the process and brings you in to who's going to be making the decision on who's going to be taken over? Is this the Conan O'Brien story? Yes, it is. Okay. Lauren said to me, we're going to, we're looking for a host for a late night show.

Conan's going to be the headwriter, and he's going to work with you. And I remember sitting with him looking at all these tapes I had from all over the country. He didn't like anybody. I said, what about this guy? he's pretty funny and finally conan went it has to be me i have to i have to be the host or i'm not involved any longer so we did this test and i think it was you that reminded me it was mimi rogers at the time it was the test it was and jason alexander it was the two of them yeah and conan was very stiff and nervous but i think everybody saw something in him that uh people could relate to

and he's a great writer too who's on The Simpsons He's got you know All those Harvard pals They're all Harvard Lampoon There you know It all worked out famously

But he paid his dues For those first two years And got clobbered I mean he said he wasn't ready I know like John Stewart auditioned I know Paul Prevenzo was being considered as well By at least the network Was there anybody else in particular

Like one or two people that you thought Would have been also That could have done that that you kind of foresaw? No, not really. I just brought in as many people for him to look at, and I traveled around, and I had people send me tapes,

and a minute, and he'd go wrong. No, no, he's not doing it. And then we'd look at a bunch more. And then he said, well, I have to do it. I have to be the host. Everyone took a great leap of faith. And what's how it turned out? It's unbelievable.

I mean, it almost didn't. I mean, it's the greatest success story of an unknown, but at the same time, they tried to cancel him a bunch of times, but nobody wanted the gig. Rosie O'Donnell said no. Greg Kinnear said no to it. It's just an most unbelievable success story. And then he, I used to go to the tapings. They couldn't fill the studio. And then just suddenly, he just started connecting that summer with the college kids. And now look at him. He's hosting the Oscars and he's his podcast and everything. But for you to be able to see that transformation just must have been amazing. I mean, I mean, even Lauren Michaels, You just don't know these things.

You go with your instinct and you hope for the best. It's instinct, absolutely. It's intuition. I work at a college in Toronto called Humber and they have a comedy program. And they always ask me that. How did you know it's intuition? And also, I come from a very funny family. That helps.

It really helps. Was it your idea or Lauren's idea to bring Jeff Ross to produce? Was there any talk of you producing Conan's show? No. He brought Jeff Ross. Great guy. Good choice, you know. Kids in the hall.

That's why I was mentioned it, just for people that are listening. Yes, he was there. Yeah. And Carolyn Strauss would come up from HBO. I don't think she's there anymore. I think she's doing her own shows. But she was head of development for HBO. And Jeff Ross was there.

And then Jim Beaterman. Have you talked to Jim Beaterman? I haven't. I would love to. Oh, he's great. He's hilarious, too. Do you take Venmo? You can be my new booker, my new guest booker.

Yeah, to try to get people. Yeah. Um, your friend Christine Tanderh, I'm a huge fan of. Um, I was going to say, really? Yes, she'd love to do it. I told her we were talking about you. You know, everyone said such nice things about you. Oh, goodness. It's some of it's true. Some of it's mostly, mom telling, screaming that through the window. Um, with kids in the hall, were there any network notes or were Lauren Michaels pretty much protect the, the kids in the hall? I mean, they, I mean, their stuff was a claim. They knew what they were doing, but was there any interference from the network?

I don't remember if there was any interference at all. They had, they had their material so tight and they performed it so many times on stage that there wasn't a note that they could be, unless it was, you know, like we were saying earlier, running fans or something of that nature, but that wouldn't go now, but people thought it was hysterical then. And some of the other pieces crushing your head, you know, buddy. Cole, which thought is touring now. That is very true. Successively.

Yeah. So they've been able to take some characters, and Bruce McCulloch moved back to Toronto, and now he has a one-man show that has been playing in some smaller theaters, but I'm sure he's going for a Broadway. I haven't seen it, obviously. He hasn't done it in Toronto, and he hasn't done it in L.A.,

so they're all branching up. He either did it in New Yorker or he's about to do it in New York, because I've heard about this. So that's pretty, amazing. I want to go back to earlier in your career because you're at the Oscars. This is in 1981. I don't know if you'd been to the Oscars previously, but you worked and you're working for one of the producers that year was Norman Jewison who passed away a year or so will go legendary guy. Johnny Carson's the host that year of the Oscars. What was that

experience like for you? One of my jobs was to escort him on a loss. So that was great. So I was backstage with him when he'd be called on to stage. My big memory of that night though was being in the office with Donald Sutherland and Robert Redford and they won for ordinary people and they both just jumped in the air and Robert

Redford ran out and it was just an incredible moment. You were with them. That's amazing. How was Carson? Was he nervous? Did he talk to you at all? What was he like? Well, I thought he was lovely. He gave me a big kiss before he went on and he was last. He was

laugh. I didn't find him nervous, but then I wasn't close to him. You and I talked earlier and said that some of the writers found that he was nervous then, but I don't know how he did it. I mean, I thought he was an amazing host. He really was. I mean, he did not get along with the director, Marty

Posetta, but they just had very different philosophies on how they, how, you know, Marty liked, uh, Pissetta really was into doing cutaways in the opening monologue where Carson wanted the camera on him the whole time and the house less. Carson wanted them off the whole time, and Marty wanted them on, apparently. So there was

some conflict there, but in terms of an overall host, he was definitely one of the best, if not the best. One of the best. The other thing about that evening was, or those days, was Marty Posetta lost his script, and he had all his notes and his storyboard and all his shot list on it, and everybody had to look for Marty Posetta's script. disappeared. Somebody must have taken it. This is right before the show. Yeah. Yeah, it was a big freak out. Well, the other big freak out about that show was that Ronald Reagan had been shot. Yes. What was that whole thing like the vibe backstage?

Because it was one of those things is, are we going to even do the Oscars? Well, Norman Jewesson said, the president's been shot. Of course, we can't do a big variety show. And then we all scrambled to find new presenters and people that we were, be available because a lot of those people were just there for one met one day and couldn't do it anymore. They had, it like people had to cancel. The big movie that year was ordinary people, correct? Yeah, that's right. That's the one that won. Yeah, I remember Timothy Hutton was really young and he won for, I believe, supporting, and then Radford. But just to be there, that must have been amazing. And then like a year or so later, what was it like working on

strange brew because it's one of those things where we talked on the phone and to me everybody I know in comedy loves this film and I don't I never hit me that commercially it did not do well and it was viewed at the time at least from the studio point is a failure where I just everybody I know can quote that movie what was that like it had to grow I guess an audience it's a cult film now so many people have seen it but that when it first came out and I remember Dave's agent called us, and I said, wow, do it just open. He said, it made $5 million. I said, oh, that's great, isn't it? He said, no, it is not great. So it was a bomb when it first came out. I can't believe that. And then didn't Dave Thomas, his agent dropped him because of the film? Yes. Yes. I mean,

Dave did fine, obviously. He moved on, but, you know, I guess everybody thought that it was going to be a giant hit and it was you know it was ahead of its time i think what was that like you were there when they did that it was a big parader you had rick moranus and dave thomas as the mackenzie brothers in person and this giant crowd i mean you've thousands of people that are out for this event and you were there but it got a little the crowd got a little scary correct it did because they were so excited and Dave and Rick were pushed ahead to get into a limo and I fell behind so they closed the doors and started to pull away and I'm hey Dave came back and got me but there were parades of people with barbecues and back base on their trucks going down the 401 freeway in Toronto and shouting

stuff like take off hey hey you hoiser which you know we don't really talk like that let's was it a fun shoot was the actual filming a fun time oh it actually was a lot of fun and it was great to cast and i think we got some really good people in there unusual casting you know what was it like working with max van sido he was a deer he was such a good sport he wore the tuk and the plaid and the you know take off you hozer he was just he had a he had a good time i mean he was he was totally faking it He seemed to have a great time. He was so convincing. He was so good at that in that role.

He was. And what about that opening scene when they're supposed to be on another planet? I love that film. I haven't watched it in a while. And what about Mel Blank? What was it like working with him? Well, I didn't actually have contact with him.

But, you know, there were a lot of people that really were fans of Bob and Doug. And I remember we were in Edmonton and, you know, they were getting some government funding and they wanted something for Canadian content and so they came up with these goofball hosers and

the camera crew, I mean they actually had to stop tape because the crew and everybody were laughing so hard that you could hear in the background and then I had to stop and start over because it was just so ridiculous. Wow, that says so much about them and they were

when they would do, I know that at least the beginning with SCTV they were just kind of ad-lib and just, I mean, they'd they were doing their improv. Even though Rick was not a second city person, Moranis, you still had that skill set. Yes, he did.

Unbelievable that they were able to do that. And that movie has taken such a life on it. So speaking of another person that we mentioned that you discovered Mike Myers, you were on the set of Austin Powers. Was that the first one? Were you at the sequels? And what was that like?

Gee, I don't want to find down to visit him. And then Mike would let me bring my kids who were just in all. of course. Yeah, that was very generous of him to have us on a sat and watch it. You know, he stays in character, for sure. It was a lot of fun.

I hope he does another movie. I don't know what he's going to do, but it would probably be a brand new character. I've heard, yeah, at least it's been on the table. It's been rumored he's going to come back, but the guy's standards for the writing that goes into everything.

It's just, he has such high standards. And just the fact that, like, he was one of the rare people over at SNL that didn't have to. I mean, he had the Turner's helping him with Wayne's World sketches and Jack Handy and Sprockets, but I mean, he could,

and he had his, at the time when he was with Robin Rousand on the coffee talk sketches, but I mean, he is just generating those things left and right. I mean, it must have been an intimidating thing for somebody to get on that show new, like a David Spade and just be like,

how am I going to do this? I mean, Spade made it on his own great. He did. With Hollywood Minute, but what a machine that Mike, Myers was. I also, what were you going to say, please? I was just going to suggest, did you see what he did recently to support the new prime minister in Canada? He did a commercial with Mark Carney, who won just a couple of days ago. And he's the new prime minister. And he said, well, you're a,

you know, you're a Canadian. You're living the States, don't you? He said, yes, I do, but I'm Canadian. He said, okay, let's see. Did you ever see Mr. Dressup? Who were his puppets? And Mike goes, You mean Casey and Finnegan? So he asked him a whole bunch of ridiculous hockey questions as well, just to see how Canadians, he's all right, you're too Canadian. But there were all these really funny bits, and it was so nice of Mike to go up there and do that. You know, I work with this comedy program at Humboldt College,

and they asked me if he would even consider coming up for the graduating ceremonies. And he said, do I get to wear a cap and gown? And I said, oh, sure, yes, absolutely. and he rented a jet and he flew up and he had all he let all the kids take pictures with him was so generous and some of the kids got up on stage and did that we're not worthy we're not worthy and you know it's really amazing that he did that it's very jet kind such a smart guy and i think when he graduated high school 17 or 18 he like within like three hours of graduation was it got accepted at second city and just yeah it was absolutely born to

to do this. It was either Melanie Hutzel or Beth Cahill, who was a featured player at S&L for one year. Melanie was there for a bunch of years. They mentioned that it was like a limousine like pulls up to either the annoyance theater or one of those like small theaters in Chicago and you all get out. And it's just like instantly their lives are changed. So you would just be, you would be with, it would be like Marcy Klein yourself, Shoemaker and Lauren in a limo just around Chicago and just going to these small places. Well, I mean, we would set up the showcases. And that's what I mean. Some people that weren't that strong on stage doing sketch didn't have a character

Bible that they could get up and do. And I remember one girl just couldn't do the audition. She was so scared. And the Innoisse Theater wasn't the greatest place for that, but some of the talent that came out of there, you know, the Salloway sisters. Kate Walsh was I know there for a while. She's, I mean, well, she's known for some kind. comedy and stuff, but more serious stuff.

But yeah, the amazing talents with the annoyance. Real live Brady Bunch. Yes, Andy Richter, Jane Lynch. Yeah. They're still open, you know, the annoyance. Yeah, they still do shows there. It's different that. It's just different now.

You know, there are so many comedians that have five minutes. And they're not ready to be on any show really yet. So. It is so different, right? because they can get Instagram famous overnight and have nothing. I mean, other than just one or two posts and it's how do you have longevity off

of something like that versus... Yeah, then they get a special. Yes, it's unbelievable how some of that stuff works, but they generate a career and have longevity. Very, very difficult. What was it like having Dell Close at your wedding? Del Close, you know, you have people like Amy Polar, Tina Faye, Mike Myers, they all worked with this guy.

That's right. Legendary guru. very fortunate. I got to meet him a couple times and have some conversations with him. Did you? I did. This was on the summer. Oh, my goodness. I'd date myself. Summer of 96. Amazing. In Chicago. And, yeah, he told me that he wrote a sketch with Michael O'Donohue on SNL that got in where it was like. Oh, I remember him. And it was two people that were like, lying on their back, looking up in the stars and the camera was like above them. I've never seen the sketch. But he told me about that. He told me about John Candy at 19 years old, Del.

told me about discovering him and seeing him audition and amazing, amazing. Did you know, Michael O'Donohanahue, by the way? You said you... Yes, I met him a number of times. How was his behavior? Oddball. Extremely smart. Sure.

Smarter than everybody in the room. And there are people like Jeff Handy, too, that really stand out with the material being so far out and so almost intellectual. I don't like to say that about comedy, but they're all. are certain people. I think you're right. You talk to someone like Robert Smigel and some of those, the people that I just look at that is the best of the best. They all worship Jack Handy. But what was it like having Dell at your wedding Del Close? Well, he couldn't stay for the whole wedding because, you know, he was a witch. So he had to go to the coven under the bridge over by the 401. So he couldn't stay. That was his reason. He said, no, I've got to meet the coven. And we have to go and we have things to talk about. So he came and had a few drinks. I kept up. I kept that wedding album, even though I'm divorced, because there's so many people that are dead in it. That's a shame, some of these people.

Was John Candy at your wedding? Yes, with his daughter, who was two or three, couldn't have been more than that. Now she has their own little, I don't know what it would call on a podcast or a radio show. It's called Coach Candy, and she gets a lot of really good guests on there. She's quite personable and funny, and she looks like her dad, a beautiful version of her dad, you know. What stands out about John Candy? have a story, one or two things that just stand out that amuse you or just that you look back at fondly? Well, he was a very, very generous person, and he loved to eat. So if you went over there

for dinner, he would start cooking and then start telling stories, and then it'd get to be midnight, and no one's eaten. And he's still telling more stories, cooking. And he loved to entertain, and he was extremely kind, I thought, to everybody. I don't think he had a mean bone in his body. And then when you see some of the stuff he did on SCTV, Divine as Peter Pan, did you ever see that sketch? I did. No, 100%. I mean, John Candid was born to do those sketches, to do the sketches on that show. And then just, he was one of those rare people that could do the characters, and then he could go off and be himself in movies and people just the audiences fell in love with him. Johnny LaRue. Yeah. We had so many greats that were just mad. He was absolutely

amazing. One thing now that is more in the culture, thank goodness, is more women are getting opportunities to do sketch comedy, TV shows. They're getting pushed and there's been all women sketch shows. You were trying in an era, this was like, I guess maybe 93, 92, where you were trying to pitch to TV. I think it was Brick House. It was mainly women. It was an unknown Margaret Cho, Kathy Griffin, Laura Kightliner, David Cross before Mr. Show. It was the only guy. We made lots of fun of men, and he was into it. Yeah, that was a riot. And then we showcased for HBO and a bunch of different networks,

but it didn't go any further. It should have. I ran into Laura Kightlinger on a set. I had a client as a writer on this sitcom, and she was writing on it also. And she said, Pam, do you remember Brith House? Why didn't that go? I said, you remember that? She said, yeah, Merckert Show and I were talking about it and how much fun it was.

And what a great show. I think it was ahead of its time. There's some funny shows that are all women. There are now, yeah. But back then, I read an article in the Los Angeles Times and they were talking to you and you were saying you were trying to pitch it, but all these men, executives were just saying that half the audience, the men aren't going to get the humor. And it's like, come on, just seriously. It's such a cliche. It is. And I don't think it's there yet. I mean, there's a long-running sketch show. It's not being produced anymore. It was called Baroness Bond Sketch out of Toronto. Really brilliant, funny, stuff. And I think that ended maybe a couple of years ago, but I just loved that one. I thought that was great. There are a few trying to be developed, but it's still very much male-dominated comedy in general. I guess you're aware. You had a client that was writing at Saturday Night Live, and for somebody that's a writer, I don't know any if this happened. Other times, I'm not aware

of it. Were your client in the middle of the season just that I went out, get me out of my contract and you were able to do it, but very few people will leave that show. It's not for everybody. It was their first season, and it's a very hard place in the beginning. I think now, I think, just from reading the books, it's a little bit more transparency in terms of that it's not going to be an easy journey for most people, at least their first season, if not for everything. But what you're saying is right on the money that it's just not for everyone.

It isn't. And I think people have to be political to be able to now. navigate the waters. For instance, say you walk into the writer's room, Lauren's not there, you figure I'll sit wherever I want. There's no assigned seating. There is, it's not spoken or written out with a little reservation card, but it is certainly a class structure with Lauren up ahead. And I think Brain Candy, when Mark McKinney was playing Lauren, it wasn't called Lauren, but, and he does that little, he knocks on the table. Woo! Woo! Woo! Yeah. Yeah.

Very good. Yes, that's very good. Everybody has their wonderful impressions of Lauren. I think Martin McKinney has a great one. Robert Smifle has a great one, too. A lot of people do. Yeah, there were some good ones out there. Was there anybody that you recommended to Lauren that he just passed on that went on to explode? Because there's so many people like Stephen Colbert, Kevin Hart, that tested for the show that just were not selected for whatever reason. I didn't know if there was any... Well, two women that I pushed hard for, Amy Sedaris and Lisa Kudrow. Yes, it was down to Julia Sweeney and Lisa Kudrow. Best thing that ever happened to Lisa Kudrow's career. I was not getting that and then friends. I agree.

And then what happened with Amy Sederis? Because I knew that there was like a dialogue back and forth and they wanted her. And for a while, do you remember what happened? I think it was hurt. Don't. I pushed very hard for her, as I did for Lisa. And he just didn't click. with either of them for whatever reason.

You know, it has to be, like when he met Maya Rudolph and she is very confident and beautiful and she would not be intimidated by someone like Lauren or anybody, really. Why should she be? I mean, she grew up, I mean, her parents had very talented family. Absolutely. So she grew up with celebrities and famous people. And so I knew that she could hold her own on a meeting with Lauren, I didn't need to be there.

And she did. And she made him laugh. She did great right away. I know. I know. I was so proud of her. It's rare. There's some certain people that were able to do it very quickly, but it is rare. No, it's amazing to look back. I know that you were friends with Phil Hartman and his wife. What stands out about Phil? Phil was hilarious on stage and then very reserved and rather quiet.

kept to himself and at one time I said to Brin Hartman I don't think he likes me I mean he barely speaks to me and he had this little group of friends that he loved to hang out with you know I would go to parties at their house David Foster would be on the piano

John Lovitz I mean Phil would be singing and all this stuff and then this one time at the Ivy she had said something to him and he threw his arms around me and bent me backwards and gave me a big kiss on the mouth. And he said, you see, I do like you. I do. I do like you. I said, oh, God, it's so embarrassing. I'm sorry that I even said anything. But he was, I thought, rather reserve.

And then once he's on stage and in front of the camera, he did such brilliant work. Like a sketch that you would think would never work, like the caveman lawyer. That sketch is phenomenal. Yeah, unfrozen caveman lawyer. Yes, yes, yes, thank you. Unfrozen Caveman. Yeah, is one is such a funny sketch and yeah, what Phil brought to it. And I heard, I read somewhere that Lord Michaels at first didn't, wasn't into the sketch and didn't think it was maybe going to work. But obviously, people are still talking about it so many years later. But yeah, I think that Turner's wrote the anal retentive chef for Phil as well. But I mean, he, I mean, I think a lot of times when people do those lists of like the back greatest cast members,

Phil's usually, if not number one, two or three easily. Jan Hooks. Oh my goodness. I got to see her perform and Phil a couple times, but I got to see Jan do at SNL a couple times when she came back. And she was just, I mean, I think she's one of the greatest of all time as well. Maybe too. And she was close friends with Christine Zander,

and that's how I got to know a little bit. But just so funny. and then she played Dixie in Marty's movie with Jiminy Glick. Oh, yes. And she played his wife. And I think that was the last film she did, but she couldn't be beat. She was hysterical. What was she doing the last bunches of years of her life?

I didn't know she lived in New York. And I know what she was doing for work or what she just didn't really do much. I mean, Tina Faye worships Jan Hooks and got her to do a part on 30 Rock, which took a little bit of really convincing her. But what was Jan doing in those years? I think she was ill. I think she was ill. She died of cancer.

And I think that it may have dragged out a bit and she didn't want to perform anymore. And yeah, she kind of disappeared for sure. It's so strange to look back now when she was 27 years old. She was hired at SNL and there was, I know that there was talk like, apparently that people, some people at the show were like,

Is she too old for the show to be on the show? And thankfully, that has changed. People in their 30s with ladies and men can get hired and stuff. But I think that 27 is too old. I mean, she was, if there was ever a hire that made sense, I mean, she was just, she could do anything. And she played it so straight. Like, I mean, she always played it dramatically and was just easily one of the best.

I was also going to talk, and we talked a little bit about this, but the vacant lot, did you bring that to Lorne Michaels? Was that you? I did. I did, and we did a showcase in New York, and Karen Evans and I, executive produced it for CBC. We took it into New York,

and Karen was a great manager and a good friend, and she later married Vito, one of the stars of the show. And after we were talking about it, I took a look at some of the older sketches, like, slept on my arms all night, and of course, the classic, blinded by the light.

You know, oh, those guys, Nick McKinney, you know, Vita Lyscombe, and Paul Greenberg, who works on a ton of shows here, big variety shows, and he and his wife, Jackie, live here. Yeah, a lot of talent. It said on Wikipedia that it got renewed for more episodes, but then they had a new president of the network that wanted to go in a different direction. Is that your recollection of what happened? Yes, I'm the VP who was a champion of the show. I think his name was Ed Robinson. Anyway, he left. And they all moved on to other things,

but it was really a lot of fun, talented people. Where did you originally see The Vacant Lot perform, and how soon after that did Lauren see them? Well, I saw them. I don't remember where. It must have been the Rivalee. And then I recommended them to Lauren, and we set up a Broadway video showcase.

And I don't remember it going that well. But we did have a deal at CBC. And I believe Broadway video was involved, but so long ago. It was a long time ago, but it was a fun show. And I know that people, I would just hear people at school absolutely quote it. I saw on IMDB that you had a credit for casting the Martin Short concert for North Americans in 1985. And it was a really fun cast. What stands out from that?

I don't remember that at all. Well, you know what? We can edit that out. Thank goodness for editing. I don't remember that at all. I think I'm really fun, the Pocadancing brothers. Oh, my goodness.

The Schmag brothers? Yeah, I cast that. What was that like? That was hilarious. These guys, they stay in character. They were very concerned down to the last face in the extras. They really wanted control over all the casting, and they did a great job, and it was, I don't know,

different times. I don't know if you'd be able to do that now either, you know? Yeah, things have changed. How did you get into producing and managing? When did that start? Well, I guess when I came down here, I wanted to manage the kids in the hall, but they felt it was a conflict. So they got a manager. I think his name was Michael Green. And so they got a manager. He wasn't that involved at all. They kind of managed themselves. You know, they'd be pretty hard to run them. You know, this is what you're doing. This is exactly, no, we're cutting that. You're not, no, they kind of manage themselves. they would, yeah, pretty much do what they want. You know, you were saying before you'd heard that Svalat was the most difficult, and I don't think there was anyone that was the most difficult.

They were all difficult. They had, you know, vision, you know, for themselves and what they wanted to show to be, and sometimes it was love-hate between them, but they always came back at the end of the day and buddied up, you know. It's the hardest, it's like being in a band. I mean, everybody has a different vision. I know during the filming of Brain Candy,

two of them were not talking to one another because they both publicly talked about it. I forget who the two were, but, you know, get over it. It's like a family. But yeah, that's just looking at some of the other people that you, it's amazing, everything you've done, random play, which I remember in 1999, you know, Jim Gathigan and Unknown Gaffigan. Who else was there? Michael Ian Black and Michael Scho Walter with a sketch. Yeah, I think that was 99. But I remember that show is, well, you're a consultant on that, correct? Right. It was VH1, the ancient VH1 that was doing it. Yeah, that was a lot of fun too. I've cast a lot of sketch now that you're mentioning it. I did Bizarre with John Biner back on the day. Oh, I love John Biner. Yeah, he's been on, he was on my podcast a few times. Bob Einstein was the showrunner on it. And then that's how we launched Super Days. That was a lot of fun. Yeah, it's a shame he passed away. I got to interview him a couple times and he was so much fun. Oh, did you? Yeah, I got to go to his home in L.A. He was hilarious. Talk about dry. Oh, my goodness. Yeah. And his dad was a big show business guy. And he, yeah, he was just such a fascinating, man. The only thing I never brought up because I knew apparently they didn't talk anymore was his brother, Albert Brooks. But I didn't, I never said anything. Because I didn't think they didn't speak. Unfortunately not. I think he had a better relationship with Larry David. And he was so funny on that shell, Kurt. Yeah, I know, absolutely.

And Marty Funkhouser, I mean, you're not, I mean, it's absolutely unbelievable. What are, one or two of your visits to Saturday Night Live? What are some of your favorite memories that just stand out of you being over at the show over the years, either at the show, the after parties, or anything that stands out? Well, one of the first shows that Maya Rudolph did, Kid Rock, was the band. And he had a midget with him, Joey, I think his name was, and they went just rampant. I remember Maya and I looking at each other and she went, am I at the apocalypse now? Is this what's going on?

And I said, excuse me, I have to use the restroom and I went in there and Kidrock followed me in there and there were other women in there and he did like pull-ups on the stalls to look in at women going to the bathroom on the toilet until he finally got kicked out of there. It was wild. I don't believe he was ever asked back.

Oh, my goodness. That must have been late 90s, maybe, something like that, early 2000. Yeah, and there was a big party afterwards. And I tried to introduce Maya. I want you to meet my client. She's a new cast member. I tried to introduce her to Bernie Brilstein.

He just wasn't interested. He just kind of looked around. Yeah, good to beat you. I mean, he was pleasant. I'm not saying he was rude or anything, but it was just, yeah, okay, okay. Yeah, now look at Maya everywhere. I mean, it's unbelievable, her talent. And, I mean, her longevity, she goes back to host.

And, yeah, you were in her corner. it's just looking at everybody that you were able to bring in to that show and just that just absolutely dominated. What a skill set to have. Pam Thomas, thank you for doing this. Would you come back at some point maybe and be a guest and maybe take some questions from some listeners? If you're, I don't want to, you don't have to give an answer now. I'm just grateful you did this. Oh, thank you so much. I'm very flattered. Maybe I could come back and bring a friend. Oh, my goodness. I know you have many friends. I would love that. But, um, anytime. But I would love for you to back. So I'm so glad we did this. And I just really appreciate your generosity and just such

an amazing career that you have had, that you have, and the people that you were able to bring to masses of people and just some of like the biggest icons of SNL was your handywork. So just thank you so much. Well, thank you so much. And trust me, I don't take credit for it. If they didn't have the talents, they'd be gone. Right? It's it's their. talent, not mine. I have the intuition and I have the instinct for who might work, but it doesn't always work. But people that have really made it have worked very hard. And I'll give Maya that kind credit, and Tina Faye and Amy Poehler, who I just saw in the grocery store. We were going, don't say anything. She's just for anybody to notice her. Don't say anything. Go out and say,

oh, hi, remember me? No, nobody, nobody don't talk. I think you did the right thing. Pam, thank you so much. I hope we get to do this again. I'd really, really like that. Well, I really enjoyed it. And you're a terrific host, and I can't believe your memory about comedy events. It's just phenomenal. Oh, goodness. I mean, I really appreciate the compliment and stuff, but you lived it and I just, I, it's a spectator. And, yeah, so much of the stuff that you had your blueprint on is just some of my favorite comedy. So, yeah, this was fun. Thanks. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode on Apple Podcast. Please rate it and leave a review, be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night

TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you. Thank you. You know, I'm going to be.