Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Spike Feresten Returns

Episode Date: January 7, 2025

Spike Feresten returns to discuss working at Saturday Night Live, being thrown into sketches, guest writing when Jerry Seinfeld hosted SNL in 1999, his love for Norm Macdonald’s Weekend Update & Spike's Car Radio on YouTube. Watch & Subscribe: Spike’s Car Radio on YouTube Follow on Instagram: @spikeferesten Follow on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/spike.feresten.5/

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today, Spike Barriston returns to discuss working at Saturday Night Live, being thrown into sketches, guest writing when Jerry Seinfeld hosted SNL in 1999, his love for Norm McDonald's weekend update, and Spike's Car Radio on YouTube. Now it's time to go inside late night. Spike Ferrisdon, thanks for coming back. It's good to be here. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I told you, you were my first guest.

You were my Bill Murray. Wow. And I said that I wouldn't bother you for six months. And it's been six months. So I just, I waited. I was a man of my word this time. I'm glad I'm glad that we're back. I'm a huge Saturday Night Live fan of the time when you were at the show at a receptionist.

I feel like the writing and the cast. It was just amazing. They would throw you in sketches occasionally. What sketches were you in that you remember in the background? I was in a sprockets. I remember being on set with Phil Hartman. I don't even remember the sketch, but I remember he was right at my feet,

and I was facing the camera, and they were counting down live, and he was banging me on the knee. It was like the very first time I had been on television. I was like, Phil, Phil, you're going to, I'm about to throw up anyway, stop, stop. it was always really fun. I always got to fill in

interesting backgrounds. I think I was in a sketch with David Spade where we were... I can't remember that one either, but we were... It was always a good time. I would show up every Friday night

just to hang out even when I wasn't working there anymore just to see if I could get thrown into stuff. It was the Nelson Brothers. It was you and Spade. It was Alex. Nelson Brothers. That's right. The Nelson Brothers.

Just because I looked like one of them, Yeah. Is that why I would... But I would love to know, you know, their catalog system wasn't really up to date at that point. But I was in every weekend in different sketches, you know, some not so memorable. But I'd love to have a look at that stuff. Yeah, that was February of 91, which I thought you were gone by then. That was Alec Baldwin, Whitney Houston, and that was the Chenate O'Connor Awards. Correct. It was Phil was playing Sinatra. Carvey was McCartney. Mike Myers is Phil Collins. Hooks, of course, is Chenade. But that was, would the writer of the piece, is the one that would come to you, or was it whoever was in charge of the extras? Or how did that work? Yeah, they didn't, they didn't really approach extras. I think Smigel at that point did say, hey, you know, you kind of look like a Nelson brother. I didn't know who they were and said,

would you want to be in a sketch? And I was like, yeah, sure. You know, at that point, I was writing for Letterman, but I just, you know, I still knew everybody on the show at S&L. And I loved, I didn't really want to go out on the weekend. So I would just go back and hang around the show and, you know, see Shunate O'Connor or see whoever was performing. And if I got into stuff, that was always like the best kind of weekend for me, you know. Yeah, you're in the building. And now that you were in a Sweeney's sister sketch as well in the background, but that's fun that they like. How did you find that out? I do so much research. I can find out an email you. That, that, I would love to see that one as well. They would just write you in.

The writer, it was always up to the writer. He would pick extras or they said five extras and some whoever is doing the extra casting would just say, hey, do you want to be one? And here's what I kind of remember about it is, you know, I was so excited to be at 30 Rock and around TV people. And I didn't grow up in entertainment and it was, you know, mind blowing to me that I would be in a sketch. And I would always call everybody. And, you know, before the dresser is, I'll go, hey, I'm in a sketch. You got to watch. You get to watch. There's no DVRs or anything. And then half the time, that sketch would get cut. And then everybody would call you the next day. You couldn't call them at like one in the morning to go, hey, yeah, the sketch get cut.

But you'd get a dozen phone calls. And I learned very quickly, he's like, don't tell anybody anything. The only calls that you should get that are fun to get are the next day, hey, I saw you. But the flood of calls, what are you talking about? Are you lying to me? You know, why would you be on sorry, live calls? Those aren't good calls. Those aren't good calls. So how soon from when you're doing, you're an intern and then you were a receptionist, when did you start working the parties outside the door? And when did that happen? I think that was part of reception duties. So they had two people, you know, my friend Sandy Restrepo, who's now a director, she and I manned the reception desk or womaned or personed or however you'd say. And, you know, we'd split the schedule and there were times where we were both there. And Sandy. I think helped out a little more with production. She wanted to be involved in script, in writing as far as kind of distribution and, you know, that side of the production.

I really wanted to be involved in the writing, writing of it. And so we kind of split up duties, and the party was just one of those things, you know. You know, do you want to be a doorman in charge of the S&L party with Susie Drasnan, who was on staff, who's, you know, still a friend of mine? I was like, yeah, sure. I mean, I don't know anybody in here. So, yeah, this will be a lot of fun. And, you know, the very first night, I think the story you're referencing there,

you know, here comes the president of NBC, Brandon Tardikov, comes in. Big party going on. He leaves it around four in the morning. Just wasted. It says goodbye, high-fies me, dashes across the street, cruises like T.J. Hooker over the hood of the car

and gets into his link limo with like too hot ladies. Over the car? Over the hood. He was feeling really good. Feeling really good. T.J. Hookered right across that hood. And I said to Susie, I go, I'm in the right place. This is exactly where I want to work. This is network television. Who are some of the people that just show up? Because I'm guessing you have a clipboard with names. And then do people have passes as well? Do they say Saturday Night Live after party that they have to give? Or is it how does it work? I think there was kind of a general list, yeah, about of the people who should and should be in. But we were also expected to kind of know who was with who, you know. So if Shanae O'Connor shows up, we were expected to kind of know these were her six or seven people who were also with her today.

If I show up and I say my name's Mark Franken, you're going to let me in because you're afraid that I might be related to Franken or is it, how does that work? I will just go on and ask. Okay. There were two of us. Yeah. But someone would know right away. Someone would know. At the time, it wasn't really that overheated.

I'm sure it's a little different now, but... It is back then. Yeah, it's strange. It wasn't really until, I guess, the Wayne's World phenomenon, that it really became and maybe like Sandler and Spade that it became a little bit different with the parties. But when you were there, who were some of the people that would just show up randomly? You're at the door. Is it like Mick Jagger, people just kind of showing up randomly?

Yeah, not regularly, but yeah, yeah, they're the famous faces that you just let in. Again, it's like, you know... S&L was pretty laid back and didn't, you know, you never wanted to offend any of the S&L family. So, yeah, anybody who you kind of knew was coming or occasionally Susie would get a message, you know, from Lorne, hey, so-and-so's going to show up. Paul McCartney's going to come by. And, you know, we don't stop them and go, ID, please. Was there anybody that you... With your beetle card.

You just go, go ahead. Was there anybody that you deny that you didn't know who they were? because there's the story about Stephen Spielberg maybe 20 years ago showing up at a party and one of the interns for whatever reason. You know, I just looked on the list or whatever, and I don't think he named dropped Steven Spielberg, but it was one of those things.

There was no one like that with you. There were, occasionally there were kind of NBC staffers that would try to get in, and, you know, I remember once, and I don't remember who they were, but they were part of NBC marketing or something, and they weren't supposed to be there. And I told them they couldn't come in, and they were upset about it, and, you know, right after that, we had a writer strike,

which I wasn't a writer at the time, but that put SNL right out of business, and I, you know, had no money saved up. So I had to go start bartending again down South Street Seaport, and who walks in? But those three people again, and they went, oh, hey, a little change of circumstances for you. What can I get you, folks? that that was really really humbling fun moment for me i i loved that you got update jokes on for dennis miller but what was that like going back in october of 99 when jerry Seinfeld hosted with musical guests this was the premiere with with david bow you went in

with was it david mandela's guest writers that week what was that like mandel kind of muscled his way in on that one okay it really i remember it was you know jerry called up and said hey we're doing S&L. I can bring a couple folks along. You know, S&L is always kind of squeamish about bringing in other writers, so it's a little bit delicate. Tina Fey was the head writer who I'd never met, but instantly went, wow, you know, what a, you know, what a writer. And, but I think early on in the kind of L.A. Let's Write Sketch piece of it, it was me, Andy Robin, Greg Cavett, and maybe Jeff Schaefer, I'm not sure. I'm not sure, but it was only a couple of us.

And then, you know, we came to New York and, you know, it was all cool. And Dave had worked there, and he called up and said, hey, is there any way I can come by? And I said, yeah, you know, it's political. We don't want to, you know, bully the S&L staff. We're kind of, you know, they're already letting us bring a couple folks in. But I, you know, passed them a message along to Jerry, and Jerry said, of course. And, you know, suddenly Dave showed up. And I think that's maybe when Berg and Schaefer also showed up.

I mean, it was fine for us. I mean, I love those guys. But I think in the end, the S&L staff was a little miffed. And I remember Tina Faye, who, again, was really sweet. And, you know, I think we got along. But I remember her going, you know, I notice you put Rick Ludwin in a sketch, who Rick Ludwin was the NBC executive in charge of late night. And I go, yeah, yeah, I did.

I did. She goes, you really want to. to do that? And I go, yeah, yeah, I really want to do that. And she goes, okay. And then she walked off. I don't remember the sketch, but we ended up putting a minute. We love Rick and thought it would just be fun. That was showing at his memorial. I was there. And he was, yeah, so delighted to do that. So you wrote that sketch? Was that yours? What did you get on that week, if anything? What sketch was it? Would you know what sketchy was? Oh, gosh. I'm like, I, but yeah, Anything that Jerry kind of brought in that we cast, most likely, it was our sketch.

I know he did a bunch of sketches that weren't ours, but he also did, you know, you hear that the writers that come along with hosts don't ever get anything on the air. It wasn't true for us. We had a bunch of stuff that we got in. I remember I wrote something. You know, I was still pretty fascinated with the Seinfeld finale and how it hit the world and how controversial it was. And at the time, there was a show on HBO called Oz, which was this gritty, it wouldn't even look gritty and real nowadays, but it was like what it's really like to be in prison with these characters. And, you know, I went, well, well, interesting, you know, the Seinfeld cast went to jail. What if they were transferred, what if Jerry was transferred to Oz?

Oz is shot in New York. And he was transferred to Oz because people didn't like the finale. And, you know, that was really, that was really my sketch that I pushed. through and Lauren said, you know, I know, or somebody at Broadway video, but I think it was Lauren hooked up the odds cast for us and said, you guys can go over there and shoot on their set. HBO is there. They're shooting right now. So we brought Jerry over, dressed him as a prisoner, and spent a couple hours on that set. Do you remember that show? Oh, I remember it very well.

I remember that that was so unusual that they actually did a tape piece that wasn't a commercial James Singarelli type piece. Yeah. They do it now, like two or three. Well, we brought Signorelli with us. Yeah, I'm pretty sure James Signorelli was the director on it. But what was fascinating for me was that show scared the shit out of me. I mean, none of us wanted to go to prison.

But that show just, you know, it was terrifying. And I watched it like a horror movie. And so when I walked on to the set and I met the cast, it was like literally visiting a prison. I remember being really scared most of the time we were there. They played it so well. with the cast. I mean, that's what they played completely in character. And I feel like that that was, that's the piece that everyone was talking about. I mean, that one, I remember Jerry did

marry Catherine Gallagher. I'd have to look back at the list. Yeah, yeah. That was, I think it was like the day after the week after the 25th anniversary. Did you go to that? That was a big deal, the 25th anniversary. I did, but I remember that sketch was called out by TV guide as they wrote it up as, you know, they do the cheers and jeers. But sketch, it was sketch of, a year. And I thought, all right. And I had to push it through. With my little side, I really had to push it through. I go, guys, I think this is really big. But they've heard me say that a million times. And 75% of the time, I'm completely wrong. But I was like, this one feels right. It just has the right vibe to it. So I was happy. That was definitely the sketch that people

talked about. Were you at, did you go to music rehearsal? David Bowie is there. I know that you worked at the building forever. But like, is somebody like that is on. Or when, you worked at the show, would you go down to music? Yeah, yeah, all the time. All the time. But it was, you know, Bowie, I worked on night music with David Sandborn for a couple years, which was Lauren's show and Broadway video show. And it was, you know, it was an amazing experience. And every week we had musicians from Eric Clapton, the Sonic U to Miles Davis. And, you know, having gone to music school, yeah, anytime I could get my ass in for music rehearsal and see Nirvana on SNL, you know, you had your moles.

They'd say, hey, Nirvana's practicing at 3 o'clock. You just leave your office and sneak on and watch and have these private shows. And it's such an amazing, I mean, when I think back, I don't think I'll ever have an experience like that again being part of SNL or being around it, being able to observe it like that. It really was an incredible experience.

Yeah, going from Berkeley, and then you're working the David Sandborn show, and then you find yourself hanging out with Miles Davis. I mean, how many people, you know, your age or whatever, our age can say that that they had time with him. Yeah, yeah. What a blessing that you've got to do. Well, we didn't hang out. You know, I shot something with him for a night music. He had one line. I've had a sore throat for 33 years. That's all I did with him. I just did that. Weirdly, my mom saw that in an old episode three days ago and called me and said, did you shoot that Miles Davis thing? Yeah.

Yeah, I did. But I had grown up, you know, I had grown up listening to his music. My dad was a Miles Davis fan. And, you know, again, for, there was no, I had, I grew up in a working class town of Massachusetts. I had no connection to show business. None of it seemed real. So, you know, I just processed everything through a television set. So when you're around it and you're seeing it, every day, it was kind of a gift. Who were some of the host that went through the building? Because, you know, you come up to 17, you have to. go past reception. Did you have any stories about some of the hosts or any interactions with them that stand out? I remember, well, the top of season 13, which I think was my first season as receptionist there, we had a fire. Steve Martin. Yeah, with Steve Martin on a Thursday night, and the fire alarm went off, and it was a real fire,

and I just happened to be next to Steve, and he goes, what do we do? And he goes, just follow those people. And I said, I'm going to stick with you. And he goes, why? he goes, because the star never dies. And you're the star of the show this week. So wherever you go, I think we'll be fine. And we ran down the stairs all the way.

It was, you know, it was a little fun adventure. You know, every, and, you know, I don't know, all the hosts were very, very different in how they kind of interacted with us. Again, I'm just a guy answering phones and helping out and bringing coffee, so I don't have much, you know, to do with them. But just about everybody, I think that we brought through there was terrific. you know, they could let their hair down, they could relax a little bit. You know, it's the way Broadway video and Lauren just creates this really fun environment that's just all about this

race to Saturday night and making people left. Was it strange going back when you were guest right in with Seinfeld with Lauren knowing that you wrote the bad dancer on Seinfeld for Elaine based on? No. It wasn't public knowledge at that point. I was told about, I mean, I knew about it for a long time, but it was one of those like things with comedy people kind of just, and it wasn't until a book came out a couple years ago, a Seinfeld book, that it was actually disclosed and stuff, but he didn't hold, there were no grudges or anything. No, not at all. No, not at all. I mean, I was not the only one who, you know, created characters based on, you know, the iconic Lauren Michaels, Mike Myers, you know. I mean, so many people have done it.

And it's because, you know, you like the guy. You, you know, you respect what he's done. And, you know, It just, you know, it's hard to explain the creative process. If there's something funny happening, you just want to get it out there. It's not really about, do I want to do a character about somebody I know or not? It's that, hey, this unique thing happened, and I think it's a good story for this show. And it turned out to be, you know, a very good episode, I guess, I hear. And, you know, I don't know. I would suspect he's proud that he inspired it.

Your timing and your career is just, I just look at it and I'm just like, how does this happen? You're working, you're a bartender in Boston, a seafood restaurant. It leads to an internship at Letterman. You know, you would think that you would have to be doing, maybe working in entertainment and an internship and slaving all summer and maybe someone make a phone call. And you get there. And then I didn't know this until recently that you were actually, because you were at Letterman for those five years, you were over at the CBS Letterman and you had submitted to Seinfeld.

you had submitted. They didn't do packets, though. I mean, they, specs, they did like ideas, right? But didn't you submit and that you didn't get it the first time. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah. It's true. You know, and the same for David Letterman's show. I didn't get in the first year there. But, you know, comedy writing was not a thing back then. So if they needed new comedy writers, they would go to the existing comedy writers on these shows and go, who do you know, who do you like? And I had been, uh, I, I think, you know, writing things here and there. I had done the Dennis Miller Weekend Update stuff. Some stuff with George Meyer. He put out this comedy newsletter with Bob Odenkirk and some other people, and I had written some things and gotten some things in there. So it was really George and Tom Gamble and Max Pross that would call me up all the time. I go, hey, they're looking for writers at Letterman.

They're looking for writers at Seinfeld. They're looking for writers at the Simpsons. And here's what you have to do to submit. but they really had to search for people that wanted to be comedy writers. So it's not as magical as you think. So, you know, with respect to Seinfeld, I put together 10 stories. I did kind of one-and-two-line story ideas, real things that had happened to me and what I wanted to do type things. And, you know, Larry and Jerry really liked them, but they only had one spot.

And I think they hired Berg and Schaefer that year. they were already out there and it was a good hire and then you have this amazing job your Dave at the time was the hottest thing in television but you still want to work for Seinfeld so take me through this because I've never heard you really talk about this um on a podcast I saw one interview I read one interview that you did but I just I really want to know behind the scenes so you're at Letterman this is 53rd and Broadway Seinfeld is a guest that night and you in your head, you're like, I don't know if Jerry even knows who I am. He doesn't know what I look like. But what are the circumstances? What exactly happens? So this was after I had applied

for the job and didn't get the job. Jerry was on a few months after that. And it was a Friday night. And I get on the elevator after a long, horrible week. That's what I remember. I was in a bad mood. Things weren't going my way. And I wasn't feeling right. And we were on the 12th floor and Dave was on the 14th floor. So, I get on the elevator on the 12th floor and who's coming down from saying goodbye to Dave, but Jerry Seinfeld and one of the segment producers, I think it was Mary. And I see them and give a little nod and turn around and face the door. And in my head, I go, these two have been talking is Mary Connolly.

Mary Connolly and Jerry have been talking all week. They're out of things to say. And now they're in an elevator. And any minute, she's going to introduce me as one of the writers. And I hope I can get to the ground floor without that happen. because the guy behind me didn't hire me, Jerry Seinfelds. And sure enough, on the eighth floor. Oh, Jerry, this is one of our writers, Spike Ferrison.

I turn out, oh, hello. And he goes, oh, Spike Ferrisen. Didn't you do a submission for us last year? And I go, yes, sir, yes, sir, I did. And he goes, whatever happened with that? And I go, shouldn't you know that? Before I can stop myself, I went, and I turned around, and Mary's eyes flared, and I just got the hell out.

out of there, and I went, wow, just a perfect end to a shitty week where I am rude to the greatest comedian of our day and my future boss, who I don't know at the time. Now, I have asked Jerry about that. I told him about that a few years back, and he just laughed. He goes, I don't even remember that. I go, of course, you've been living rent-free in my head for years since that point. But didn't Jerry at that point say, you know what, why don't you submit again in the elevator? He did not. No, no, no. He didn't. But I don't know. Maybe something happened, but the following year, they asked me to do another submission, which I said, absolutely not. And then my friends called me and go, come on, do it. It was the exact same thing that happened on Letterman. I got rejected, and then I was mad. So when they called the next time, I go, no, I'm not going to give you. And both times I listened to Gamble and Pross and George, and they said, don't be stupid. And I said, you're right. And I did another submission. I flew out. met Larry, just Larry, and pitched him in his backyard. And he said, look, these are great. And he goes, we're going to hire you. And I said, terrific. So I suspect Larry was really in charge of all of it at that point.

I love the fact that, and I don't know any other shows that really do that, that were half hour that would just go with the ideas that people would get hired based on that. And isn't it true that you, in those ideas that you pitched that one of them was, if it wasn't suit Nazi, it was definitely Elaine being the bad dancer based on Lauren, right? or what did you? I did. Yeah, I mean, somewhere in storage, I have a half-torn piece of yellow pad paper with all of those ideas on it. In some of my original pitch, the only one that wasn't on it was soup-nazi. That one kind of came up as a hiccup, flop sweats after I was pitching and not succeeding early on in the room. But every other one, I think, was pretty much on that first page, which was interesting.

In terms of curb your enthusiasm, Larry, from one to ten, and during that meeting, where was he on the spectrum of what people would think Larry David? Larry's been pretty consistent. I mean, there's Larry on the show writing with Jerry, writing George, and then there was Larry in the lunchroom, you know, nothing but I, you know, what I really loved about Larry, he really just taught me to write from experience without, you know, without much of a lesson for it. don't think too much.

He would say what I said earlier, which is, you know, what happened to you last night that you haven't stopped thinking about? Like today, I got into a little road rage with a construction worker down the street from the house. And it, and it, you know, the guy cut me off. And I'm like, what are you doing? And he's like that. And then we're both sitting here like, okay, what's the next move here?

What are we going to do? You can tell the anger kind of diminished. And I'm like, oh, I'm going to report you the security. It's like, I'm going to kick the shit out of you. And I'm like, eh. And then we're smiling. Hey, all right, I'll get out of the way. You know, any of these things that are sticking with you,

Larry would say, just think about them a little bit. And if there's something you wanted to do, but that you didn't do. You know, and that's usually where we would find stories. And the reason they didn't really care about it being longer than two or three lines is because Larry and Jerry that year, which is my first year, they were pretty much writing those things. You know, you could do a first draft and you'd get a lot of stuff. in, but they're going to take it and make it their own.

So what they found was not that people couldn't write is that they needed funny ideas to start off with. That was the gold. There's a guy who sells soup, and if you don't order it right, they kicks you out. They call them the soup Nazi. That was the hard part to find, not people who could execute a draft. One of the most successful is to come of all time, and I can't believe no one else has tried to replicate that formula of writing.

Oh, oh, well, yeah, why do you think? Development executives. Yeah, your favorites. They will say it all the time, but, you know, Jerry and Larry both start with, if you don't have a funny story shred, you're not going to have a funny script. It's such a simple idea. But if the story doesn't make you laugh, just in pitching it on a barstool next to someone in two lines, you've got nothing. Were you on set on Seinfeld when Norm MacDonald, after he was fired from update, Rick Ludwin went on set in a bunch of former... That was to me, yeah, that was to me, and Dave Maddell.

What happened? You know, it was, we got to see Rick, the NBC executive. So in the months preceding, Norm was doing a bunch of jokes about O.J. Simpson. And frankly, in that year, and I don't remember what season it was, Norm was the first. the funniest guy on the show. You watched S&L for Norm. At least I did. His weekend update was, you know, for me,

it's got to be, he's probably my top weekend update host. I love the weekend update host, but Norm, I think, was the most exciting to watch because I knew he was going to throw out jokes that had a little bit of an edge in the audience there might not even jump along with. So he was making those O.J. Simpson's jokes and other jokes.

And Rick had been saying to us, The day after or whenever we're on set next, Tuesday maybe on rehearsal, the previous Saturday, did you see Norm? Did you hear this joke? Can you believe how funny Norm? Norm is Bert Reynolds. Can you believe Norm? That's all we were talking about. And then things come to a head with this O.J. Simpson joke stuff.

And I forget who was pushing it from the network there. They said you got to. Who is it? Don O'Meier. Don O'm only reading about it like anybody else is reading about it. And Norm, you know, gets suspended from the show or fired from the show. And Rick said, yeah, you know, it's not a, something to the effect of, it's not a big deal. He wasn't very funny anyways.

And I was deeply offended by that lie. That was, you know, that was, I understand why Rick had to say that because he's protecting his job here at NBC and we're fairly hoping. a high profile, but it was a lie to us. We'd all been talking about Norm for months, and now suddenly he's not funny. You know, that really was disappointing to me. And I, you know, I had words with him about it. And to this day, I have no idea how it ended up in a newspaper. I didn't know it did. It floated out. It floated out somewhere into a newspaper. It's bizarre. I can tell you, I didn't leak it. I don't know if Mandel did or somebody else,

but it was me, Mandel, and maybe another writer. I heard it secondhand from somebody at Saturday Night Live that had heard this story. And then Rick just told me, you know, it was definitely, because the way I was told it was that it was very aggressive. And I didn't even know it was you or Mandel, very in Rick's face and pointing. And Rick's like, no, it was definitely there was a conversation,

but it was polite, but they definitely were not happy. Oh, yeah, of course. We loved Rick. Yeah, I mean, no one could ever be angry at Rick. I was disappointed in him that he couldn't at least have an off-the-record conversation with us, you know, at that point. We had such a history together, you know, like, hey, I agree with you, but politically, I can't agree with you. And I'd appreciate it if you keep that to yourself as the type, is the way I handle those situations. And as long as we're talking, nobody's hearing it.

But somebody heard it. I probably did hear it. Who knows? Yeah, yeah, but it wasn't a fight. There were no fights on the Seinfeld set that I can remember. No. That's a good thing. How did you tell Dave Letterman that you were leaving after five years? And do you think that he was hurt? I know that he gets attached to people. And I know that you were friendly with him and you hung out with him. You drove cars with him. Very much so, yeah. Yeah. How was that? No, Dave was very gracious about it. I mean, obviously, I'm not the first person to leave that show, but he understood that I had given pretty much everything I could give to that show, that I was getting burned out. I think I was getting on the nerve of raw.

I was getting on Rob Burnett's nerves and John Beckerman's nerves. I'm not at that point like head writer material. So, you know, it's just, it starts not to be a good fit. And that's only because of me and my ambition and what I want to do. But I didn't leave Dave because I wanted to work for Seinfeld. I don't know if you know this bit of business. I just wanted to get out of New York. I didn't know that. And moved to L.A. and I wanted a dog and I wanted a car and I needed to get out of an apartment. I wanted a house. I'd been living in apartments for many, many years. At that point, you didn't really know LA very much other than the Emmy trips, or did you, were you there for other things? Other than the Emmy trips, no. I left Letterman

without a job. I had no idea. So you, that is very unusual for a place like that. So you leave Dave's show and then you go out west. Yeah, I moved into the Chateau, Vermont, which was not as fancy sounding as it is now. You know, we used to stay out there for the Emmys on Letterman, you could get like, you can have half the floor, I think, for $200 a night, half of a floor of this old beautiful Hollywood hotel. So I said, I'm just going to live there. That was my plan. I had a girlfriend. I go, let's go live there. We had two cats. And we'll find a house. It's just been an earthquake in L.A., so everything's for rent. And I'm sure CA will help me find a job. Here we go. And it worked out. So there you go. And like a weekend.

You know, aside from chasing my cats around the roof of the Chateau Marmont, that's when I got the call about Seinfeld, you know, let's go me, go, no, and I had another job offer, too. Oh, what was the name of this woman? There was a black woman who had left S&L. Ellen Clegghorn. Ellen Clegghorn. And she offered me a job on her show. WB.

Do you read that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was for a whole lot of money. And I was like, shocked. I was like, oh, my God, that's a lot of money every week. But I didn't think, I didn't understand the show. I didn't think I would be able to do it as much as I admired her and thought she was really funny. You know, I just thought, I'm going to, I know my psychology here, and I'm going to make this bad for them, and I shouldn't do it.

And why don't, you know, I hadn't watched a lot of Seinfeld just because I had been working a lot on Thursday nights. but I people have a very high opinion of it and I love Jerry's stand up and if it's anything like that maybe this is where I need to be and I'll figure out the half hour script part they'll help me along with it it worked out um your brother uh who writes these pieces for late nighter which are really fun um your brother oh yeah yeah you guys saw that i wanted to hear your um your version of what you remember with the alec baldwin middle finger photo um at the at that party and oh my god you really go deep Don't you?

I try. But your brother wrote about it. So that's why I know. He did? Yeah. Yeah, he wrote about it recently. What did he write? He wrote a piece and they showed the photo.

And it's you giving, you and Alec Baldwin, your brother giving the bird to the camera. Kemp Basinger is in it. And I guess your dad was, it was like his prize possession. It was because he had a massive crush on Kim Bacinger. Massive. That's what that moment is all about. We didn't want Alec Baldwin in the picture. He just offered to be in it.

It was after it was an S&L ramp party. And Kim declined doing the middle finger, big movie star. But it was mostly about, in this age of no selfies, like, hey, we've got your girlfriend, dad, and you're not here. That was pretty much our dynamic with our dad. We're having a much better life than you. And he loved it. He loved to be teased that way. Yeah, the photo I know was framed and it was hanging.

And you weren't much younger than some of the writers that were there. Who were the writers that you would hang out with? George Meyer, Smygel, Odenkirk was there, but I didn't really hang with him. You know, I would occasionally I'd be asked to help Dana Carvey with an impression. Only that, hey, can you track down the video and go up and bring it to him? And he'd go, sit down, sit down, let's watch this together. You know, so, but I think. And then, you know, Jan Hooks, we were over her place a lot.

And Phil Hartman was fantastic. He was just one of the guys. You know, that was kind of the crew that Sandy and I hung out with the most, I think. A little bit of Farley, you know, after the fact, even though I left. What was Jan Hooks like going to her place and hanging out with her? I mean, she's, in my opinion, the best that ever went through the show, Best Woman, and one of the best best members ever, period. I got to meet her once, very nice.

I got to see her perform, yeah, and it was amazing just to watch her, but the fact that you knew her, I don't think that a lot of people really, much is really known about her too much, other than than the show, she didn't really do a lot of interviews, but what was she like? What stands out about her? Well, I mean, the first thing is, is she was the other person at my foot in that sketch that we were talking about right at the top of this. It was Phil Hartman and Jan Hooks, and they were both doing it. She was very playful. in that way and so much fun and so down to earth. You know, especially with the production staff, which you're part of, anybody who even talks to you, you're like, oh, my God, I love these folks.

So after S&L parties, we'd all go over there and drink beer till four in the morning or whatever. And she was always, you know, just up for continuing the party and just, you know, hanging out. So those were the original after after parties, kind of. I know that your brother was instrumental in that. I think so, yeah. And at some point she started dating Kevin Nielan. And Kevin had a, his office was right behind me. So I sat at the desk right here. Right behind me was Dennis Miller.

Just off to the left was Kevin Nielan. And you'd see Jan go in there and the door would close. And then, you know, you'd hear this really loud fart. And you'd hear Kevin go, Jan. Oh, Jen, for sake. And she'd come out. She'd go, that wasn't me. That sounds very Neil and ask.

I have to ask you about one of the after parties because, you know, I've been to them a couple times. You never know who's going to be there. But you had this thing happened, this incident, but I wouldn't take it personally because there's so many of these stories out there with Bill Murray. Yeah. Do you think that Bill Murray was upset maybe because he was embarrassed that he kind of exploded at you? And that's why he kind of remembers this. avoids you or what, first of all, what's the setup and what? So you're talking about, you're talking about when I asked him why he didn't do the sketch I wrote for him on Letterman after he had approved

it. Yes, and you're in the bathroom with him and he, um, you know, Dan Aykroy calls him the murricane. You just never know sometimes what you're going to get with with Murray. Oh, that's funny. I know people that, um, you know, he's the most loyal guy absolutely love him. I know you know, you know, people that know him, but whatever reason, I don't know if there were a couple drinks in him or what. No, he's just, he's that. What did Dan Aykroyd say? Murakane. Yeah, he's a little volatile.

Like any, you know, genius performer, it can cut both ways. He can explode into something wonderfully funny and or he can just explode. I mean, I don't know. I mean, I can understand at this point why maybe I shouldn't have struck up a conversation with him at the urinal. if we were sitting at the table we were sitting together at a table I should have brought it up there but I think here's what I really think

because it's happened twice to me you know that story the other story is with Tom Davis who I knew really well and I caught up with Tom Davis at there was a SARS epidemic before there was a COVID epidemic

and somehow it was centered on Canada and the Rolling Stones decided to do SARS-stuck to raise money and there were a million people at this concert and a friend of mine was playing

there was one of the bands before the Rolling Stones and he said why don't you be my roadie and I said are you kidding I don't even know what I'm going to be doing he goes all you do is you unplug one guitar do the other I go there's a million people out there

he goes don't worry about it so I went backstage and I was waiting for him to perform and I think Dan Aykroyd was the host and Tom Davis was writing jokes for him as he was coming out introducing the bands. It was a, you know, it was an all day kind of Coachella thing with all sorts of bands with Dan doing jokes in between before, you know, ACDC and then the Rolling Stone. And I went back and I'm, holy shit, what are you doing here? Hey, man, it's good to see. It's great.

I go, what are you doing? He goes, I'm writing jokes. I'm doing this. I've got to get some stuff for Dan, Dan who's coming up next. And that's great. And I said, you know, hey, if you want, if you want any help, just let me know. And he goes, get your own fucking gig. man, and you got really angry. You're kidding me. And I went, oh, yeah, well, I don't actually want to work. I was just being nice, but maybe. And here's, I tell that story because I think that generation of writer, you know,

Bill Murray and Tom Davis lived by a kind of different set of kind of writer and production codes and etiquettes of which I was not privy to. and I, in their eyes, had crossed a line in both cases that if I had been of their generation would be things that you would never say. Does that make sense? Because with Bill, my comments is, and I didn't care that he didn't do my thing. I was just kind of making small talk with a guy just to have a conversation with him. But I could have cared less whether he had done my idea or done Beckerman's idea or someone else's. But I was very surprised I stepped on a landmine. I want to point out, and I would put Herb Sargent in this as well, who I know bit your head off is, that

generation of people that were the show. That was my fault too. But that generation, they seem incapable of when they're upset of just voicing and, you know, this, that upset me like this. They, they, it's like, they have like, it's either they explode or they just are, you know, regular, but there's no talking about, you know, oh, you know what, actually that. Maybe. I don't know. Herb was terrific, too. it was he was just it's a high pressure environment and in those environments even today people break every once in a while and you know i get i don't give a shit if somebody yells at me go ahead if you need to get that out i had it happen with an actor uh six months ago in a recording session and not going to say who it is but he unloaded unloaded on you and then you know what i said after he was

done i let it hang for a second and i said i hope you feel better and he goes, I do. And I go, great, let's move on. Because I've been in his position before, and I have felt that pressure, and you cannot control yourself every time. It's just not possible. You can try, but you're not going to do it.

So, you know, with Bill, with her, with Tom, I don't really think about that much at all. You have a good attitude, but then Murray was, you were going to hang out with one of your friends, and Murray was going to be there, and you're like, I can hang out. Andy.

With who is it? Yeah, we were going up to hang out with him. He was hosting the Espies. And said he goes, come on, we're going to go up to his hotel room. And I don't think he's going to want to see me. And who is this you were with? You were with who at the time? Andy Restrepo.

My friend said, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And she goes, come on, you be crazy. He doesn't even know who you are. And I go, yeah, maybe. But you might just want to, you might just want to say, hey, so it's not uncomfortable for you. And then she called back. She goes, yeah, yeah, you can't come up. And I said, all right, I totally understand.

I totally understand. I didn't care. It was fine. What does it matter? I don't need to go hang out with a guy who doesn't want to hang out with me. You know, I'm a huge Bill Murray fan. I can enjoy him just by watching him. I think that way now.

Like, I don't really want to meet the people I like who entertain me much anymore. I'm not interested. Well, Howard Stern is one of those guys. I've never met Howard Stern, I don't think. and I hope to never meet him at all. I just like listening to him every day. And I like what he's putting out there. And I get to process his art and his performance through my automotive speaker.

He's very good with the interviews. It's incredible how he keeps kind of like the Charlie Rose. It's wonderful that you're finally doing these YouTube from Spike Cars radio. You're doing these videos. And it's not the one with Leno. There's so much noise out there. And I know recently you just put it out. is up to like 90,000 plus views,

and you have one with Jerry Seinfeld, but it's wonderful that you're filming this. Isn't your garage where you're filming it? So there's a garage where we keep cars here in L.A. that the folks in New York that sell our ad said, you guys really, you're not noticing what's going on in entertainment right now. Television is dying. All the advertisers are fleeing linear TV and paid television,

and they're coming to YouTube, and you guys have a show that you've been doing for seven years, and you've got a lot of folks that you've had on there, you know, Matt Damon's, Christian Bales, Jerry Seinfelds, and, you know, Spike can pick up the phone and call friends and have them on, and no one gets to see it. And this is, according to these guys, it is the future. You know, you miss your late night show, just go do it.

You don't have to pitch it, you know, and I do, one of the things I missed most about late night was meeting folks, and interviewing them and just having a conversation with them and i really love it i really love it you're so good at it well thank you that's nice i mean i know you just had max greenfield on a james marsden yeah yeah and you can get buddies like dennis miller that come on that will not do anybody else other than yeah yeah fly on the wall because he's friends with carvey and spade spudley but they're not going to be talking to mark malkoff he's not but that's okay um but it's one of those things you get You'd be surprised.

I emailed Den Dennis a couple of years ago to ask him to be on my Johnny Carson podcast. And he said, I don't really remember much. So I'm going to politely demure. But thank you for asking. I was like, oh, I tried. But at least think it back to me. That is Dennis. But you get these amazing people.

I'm so glad. And it looks visually stunning. I mean, the background. Yeah, yeah. Well, you know, we got the 4K cameras. Yeah. And you can just, you really, you can just sit and do a show now. And like you're saying, those numbers don't sound like Jerry's show is a hunt.

I thought, all right, we'll get a couple thousand views, but Jerry's up to 120,000. And, you know, those numbers start to get competitive with late night and certainly better than CNN right now. And you start to go, aha, I can just be my own thing and do my own thing without any interference. My production company can just run it. I can have the folks on. I just want to have on. I can meet new people from, you know, we're out promoting TV and films.

And like you said, right away, that Leno conspiracy thing, which is, it's ridiculous. The guy's the cleanest guy I've ever met in my, I mean, he doesn't drink, he doesn't gamble. And there's a million conspiracy theories about his fall right now.

It's so Jay that he would stay at a Hampton Inn, a man of the... Of course. We talked about it. That's any traveling comedian is in those places. There's no foreseeable. seasons in Greenberg, Pennsylvania, where the hell he was? You go to sleep, you do the set, you get, he gets on his plane, he comes home.

It all makes perfect sense to me, all. And I know that he would always show up alone to these food places and just order, because I've talked to people that just... Of course! Look, follow Bill Burr. And you'll see, you'll see. He goes, hey, it's a Tuesday, I'm in Monterey. I'm with that guy.

He's looking in the window at the 7-Eleven. I'm doing a show tonight at this. I mean, this is what these... comedians are doing out on the road, including Jerry Seinfeld. I've been with him. I'm shocked. I thought he'd be at the five stars no matter what in his contract rider. And I thought, no, I think here's the one difference. Jerry would, I think, have a driver if he were out in the road alone. He would have someone to drive him. But that's about it. That's about it. But no, I've been out on the road with Jerry and crappy motels. He doesn't care. That sounds very Jerry. 400 episodes you've done

almost of Spike's car radio and yeah do you miss Malibu kitchen being recording there I only went there once and I did not know until one of my friends in the industry somebody was just like um you know let's meet up there I'm like I've never been there and then I met the owner and it starts mentioned in Seinfeld I'm like Seinfeld and my friend's like oh yeah they're here all the time and Leno and stuff do you miss that a lot oh of course yeah that was a great place I mean that's really responsible for this podcast is we used to get together after kind of blasting through canyons. I mean, our car thing is driving.

So while some people are playing golf, we would meet in Santa Monica, get in some cool cars, buzz the canyons, feel relaxed, stop at bills, and then talk. Where were you performing? What's going on with TV?

What's the stupid car and this? And people would lean in and try to listen to us. Once somebody actually started typing what we were saying and put it in the Malibu, newspaper Jerry had words with that guy and said please

please don't do that but I said to Jerry shortly after I go it sounds like there's some interest here should be just talking to microphones

and the podcast was born that's really all it is it's the stuff that we would say after driving canions and it can be anything

family life comedy you know TV shows we're watching the stupidity of our car hobby

it's wonderful listening and then sometimes you're at Malibu Kitchen and with your son and Neil Diamond is there and you have to say hi. Oh, yeah. Boy, you really have gone deep. I try. You are like a forensic

interviewer. Comedy nerd. Forensic comedy nerd. I've never seen someone go that deep. I've never. I can't believe you just brought up that photo from two years ago. I've never gotten it to me, Neil Diamond. He's Neil Diamond. Come on from the Bronx. The Bronx or Brooklyn. I mean, I feel the same way. That's why I sent my son over there to get

a picture with him. But still, the fact that you know that Instagram post from what four or five years ago i can't get stuff out of my head from like from the time whenever there's something wrong with me but i know you have to go um impressive thank you so much for doing this spike i promise another six months maybe i don't want to any time bothering you so thank you for doing this no i enjoy these conversations you're you're the only guy who asked these questions it's really enjoyable for me i appreciate it thanks for listening please subscribe so you never miss an episode on Apple Podcasts please rate it and leave a review be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news and you can find my

podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next Tuesday. I'm not I'm going to be. I'm going to I'm going to I'm I'm I'm

I'm I'm Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. We're going to be.