Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Streeter Seidell

Episode Date: September 10, 2024

SNL writer Streeter Seidell discusses his writing with Mikey Day and some of their most beloved sketches including Beavis and Butt-Head for host Ryan Gosling, Washington's Dream, & David S. Pumpkins.��   Follow on X (Twitter): @streetseidell Follow on Instagram: @streeterseidell

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by latenighter.com. Today's guest is current Saturday Night Live writer Streeter Seidel. He, along with his writing partner, Mikey Day, have written some of the most beloved sketches in the last number of years, which we discuss, including Beavis and Butthead for host Ryan Gosling, Washington's Dream, and David S. Pumpkins. Now, it's time to go inside late. Night. Streeter Seidel. Thanks for talking with us. My pleasure. You and Mikey Day together, your writing, your catalog is pretty amazing. I emailed you saying, and I really feel this is the truth. Since 1986, 92, 93, when you had Smigel and Downey and Jack Handy and the turners, I really feel like if you look at what you have done and stuff, you guys are the best

writers that have come out. I mean, there's a lot of others that have been very, very strong. But in terms of looking at your catalog and the critical response that you have gotten, especially in just the last couple years, I don't know anybody that touches you guys, for real. That's, well, that's very nice of you to say. I mean, to me, all those guys are such legends that to be, I don't, I would never put myself in the same sentence as them, but we had, you know, Mikey and I have had a lot of success there and each one feels like we're getting away with something truly, you know. Because I do want to say, I believe Mikey and I both think we're two idiots. So whenever someone says something nice about us, our reaction is like, they know we're

stupid, right? Okay. The show is at its best when people are watching the show and ask themselves who wrote that sketch. You know, Seth Myers, when he saw Washington's dream when you had Nate Burgossey, did you going into that sketch with Nate Burgossey, knew that you guys had something special that people, I mean, people online were like, this is the best sketch that they've had in years.

People get pretty hyperbolic. Like, I've seen that set about any number of sketches that have come out of the show. But that one did feel pretty special when it came out. But, you know, as you're writing it, you don't know. I knew that I really liked it. I like that kind of stuff that I like history. I like, you know, I like sketches that build and have little callbacks within them

and kind of are simple in a way. It's a very simple sketch. Like, it doesn't ever veer too far from, you know, where it started. And I do know that as we were writing it, it came very easy. And we had started it this season before. I think it was originally for maybe for Woody Harrelson. And we kind of like... Did it get to dress?

Did it get past the table? No, no. We never even put it in. We kind of bailed on it halfway through. And so... Why? I just, you know, we had other stuff we were working on. And I think we started it pretty late.

And then it was like, we have enough stuff. You know, you don't want to put in too many things at the table. you know, I have a very bad reputation for putting in too many sketches. That's what I was going to ask. One of my questions was how many sketches do you guys put in a table read? I mean, we'll put in, the goal is always four. And then, but then you're just like, oh, I just want to, I just want to hear this one too. And so sometimes it'll be six.

And then Eric Kenward, our producer will call up and be like, I got to pull a couple of these. you have too many things. And so we've always been very like, hey, pull whatever you want, it's fine. You know, we don't want to, we don't want to be overrepresented certainly. But like, in the manicness of Wednesday morning when you haven't really slept and the table reads looming, it's like you kind of want to take as many shots as you can. And it's exciting and fun. Mikey Day is a machine. He really is, yeah. In terms of the sleep, how, he's the only person I know in the history of the show and probably there might have been others of writers that I don't know if this is still the case but he does not he stays you guys stay up all night

Tuesday night she does not I've started I've started sleeping he doesn't sleep even yeah please I know it's crazy but he doesn't sleep between stopping the writing at like 8 a.m and the in the whatever 2 8 a.m. 9 is are you guys going up until like 10 a.m? 2 p.m. really so most people are done by them but you guys are up until 2 p.m. And this is Mikey without sleep. And then he'll go into, is that both of you? And then you'll go into the read-through without sleeping at all?

I mean, I've, the last few seasons as I've gotten older, and, you know, I have two young kids. So I was like, I need to, I have to sleep a couple hours. So I, the past few seasons, I've been sleeping. And I'm like, I don't know, three, four hours maybe. As far as I know, during that time, Mikey just stays up. And one time we calculated how many months of lost sleep, like how many days of lost sleep we've had, and it was terrifying in like 10 years to be like, okay, that's 20 missed nights

of sleep per year. It's like coming up on close to a year of not sleeping. People, you know, sometimes when they hear cast members and writers talk, they're exaggerating, but 20 hour days on a Friday is not uncommon, but one time you said in an interview, it was like you were up for maybe 38 hours. Is that the record? I have no idea. For me, for me personally, probably.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, probably. I mean, that's not that's fairly rare. And honestly, Mikey and I do it to ourselves. If we had a better more organized method of writing for the show, we could write our stuff,

be done by midnight, go home and sleep, come back in the morning or whatever at a normal time, touch it up and put it in. But it's, that's just the way we've done it. When you and Mikey are going in for the Tuesday, do you have beat sheets that you were on like on the weeks off and stuff? You come up with an idea and you have some of the beats going in or how much of it is just in the moment that you're just coming up with the idea? It seems to be like a rolling process. You know, like everyone just writes little notes down and gets little ideas. and they kind of pile up.

And then so you'll look at those and maybe one jumps out for a host and you start working on it. But I used to be very good about my first few seasons, like Monday night, I'm going to settle on my ideas. I'm going to write two things. I'm going to have them settled out. I'm going to start them. And then Tuesday, I'm going to finish those and then maybe try to help some other people with other things. And that, just as time gone by as gone by, that has completely. going away. It's pretty haphazard now, but it works. You know, something like, if I had an idea

like Washington's dream every week, I would write it on Monday, and then I'd be done with it, and I mean, golden. Isn't that frowned upon to start writing before Tuesday, or is it more lax these days? I don't, I've never felt that it was frowned upon. It seems that that's what everyone wants to do because you don't want to work these crazy hours if you can avoid it. So you go, let me do a first draft on Monday and then Tuesday I'll just polish it up. And then, I don't know, Monday, you're hanging out, you're doing bits with people, you're joking around. The idea of sitting down to work kind of just starts moving later and later in the night.

And then it's like 10, 10.30 on Monday. And you're like, well, I want to make sure I get a lot of sleep tonight because being up late tomorrow. So you can see how the best laid plans just kind of crumble. I look at your career and it's just the timing was just perfect because you and Mikey are sharing an office. That wasn't you guys as writing partners that happened. Maybe it would have happened. Maybe it wouldn't. But you're both in the office together. Yeah. And how long did it take you to the light bulb go off that we have this? Because not everyone can write together. I mean, it doesn't always gel. How long did you realize that?

And it was his, was that his second season in your first? Yes. So I, he was in there with Nassim, and she had left the show. And so my friend Sarah Schneider, who I had worked with at college humor prior to coming to S&L, had told the headwriters and producers like, oh, I think Streeter and Mikey would go together because they smoked cigarettes. So they put them in the same office. And so that's, I think that's why we got put together. But we didn't really, I mean, the first few shows, like, I didn't really know anyone. You know, I'm kind of hanging with the new people.

I was writing with Jeremy Beiler a lot, those first few shows, we got along great and did some stuff. But then one night, Mikey was writing this sketch for J.K. Simmons, where he's like a dad coming to a classroom to talk about his job. You know, it's a career day. And I just started, I was laying on our couch and just started kind of pitching on it and we were laughing and the, it just made the night so fun. We're just cracking up pitching on this thing. It became a decent sketch. It was a breakout incredible thing. But I think from then on it was like, okay, well, each work on our own thing.

And then let's make sure we do one together late night. because that's when we get goofy and silly. And then that late night started to get earlier and earlier. And then by the end of that season, it was just kind of like, I think we're writing partners. I guess people are starting to think of us as, oh, those two guys write together. You know, they're like a team. Do you think that Lauren Michaels is right that the exhaustion fuels the creativity and some of the best pieces are written when, you know, early and maybe an early Tuesday, Wednesday morning? rather, just when people are exhausted. Do you agree with that in terms of creativity?

Sometimes what it definitely does is it, you know, when you have this deadline looming and you're exhausted, you'll just, all the filters that say no in your head to an idea or a move or a line, they just start to kind of fall away because you're like, I have to finish this. So what comes out like fever dream pure sometimes and if that alchemy's right with a host or or the cast or whatever then you can get these kind of wild fun you know very unique things your trajectory is so fun to me because you know you're 12 years old you're at daniel hand high school and madison your dream is your right you did your research huh i try that's what i'm kind of known for and you know You're growing up on the Will Ferrell, Molly Shannon, Sherry, O'Terry cast, and you really, really want to do this.

And, you know, I look at you and Mikey, people like Sarah Schneider, certain people that, you know, I just always assume that you got it on the first time. But you had to submit like three or four times as a writer. And a lot of times people will stop at the first time they don't get it. When you didn't get it the first time, did you ever consider stopping? Or was it one of those things like, this is my dream. What do you have kept going every year, do you think? Uh, yeah, probably. I mean, I, you know, I was fortunate in that I had another job. So I was at college humor making money, I could pay my rent. I was doing fine. And so S&L. You're on TV. Yeah, well,

SNL was like, wow, wouldn't that be amazing? But it always seemed like this impossible thing. Because even though I was working in comedy and performing and writing and basically doing everything I'd always wanted to do SNL still was just this golden temple you could not get into. And then when Sarah got hired, it was like...

It was 2011. Yeah, yeah. It was like, oh my God, I know someone there. Like, you know, you would kind of meet people from SNL doing shows and things like that. And that was cool, but like, I was like, this is my friend and she was doing great and so it kind of made you think like oh maybe maybe i am good enough to to join them because they the s and l writers in my head were always like these are the gods of comedy writing and i'm down here in the internet with my dumb friends

like making garbage thank you i mean i love i love a lot of what we did there and i love all those guys, I'm still friends with all them to this day. But, you know, I think we were making it up as we were going along, like, internet video was not a thing. So the S&L people were like, oh, those are like the real ones. And so, you know, I always had my eye on the prize, but I was like, I know they get hundreds and hundreds of packets. But, you know, what's the harm in writing a couple sketches and sending it in? Could you feel that your packet's getting progressively stronger when every year that you were submitting? No, I don't think so. And I'm sure if I read them now, I'd be like, oh, it's just garbage. I would, unproducible, totally misusing the cast, like all the things that you kind of learn once you're in there. I'm sure they weren't good.

How helpful was it with Sarah? Because when you finally got the show in 2014, obviously having an endorsement from Kate McKinnon, who, who was, you know, still relatively new and also from Sarah. But I read an interview with you or heard you on a podcast saying that Sarah, it's not like she was helping you with the packet, but she would say maybe this idea is not good to put it in the packet. This is, you might not want to do that. How helpful was that? What is an idea that you had that she's like,

you don't want to put this in the packet? Do you remember? God, I can't remember. No, I wish I could. I'm sure there were a lot. But I think what she was trying to steer me towards and what, If anyone asks for advice for me, I always tell them is like, what they're looking for. What we're looking for is somebody's unique voice.

What do you think is funny? And can you put that into the vernacular of the show? And so I'm sure that's kind of what she was trying to push me, George. She wasn't like, oh, this one's not going to work. That's bad. It's more like, are you trying to write what you think the show wants? Or are you trying to write what you think is fun? money in the show's voice. And so that seems to be the best advice for the packets. But,

you know, obviously having a good word from her and from Kate probably made all the difference for me. I can't say I wasn't. I didn't work there at the time. Does anybody ever get hired on a blind submission without a connection to UCB or? Yeah, yeah, yeah. It does happen. Okay. I mean, we just read hundreds of packets. We just finished reading them. So, And a couple of the people who, you know, made it, are making it through to that kind of final group, you know, no one really knows them. They just wrote a great, super funny packet. That's great to know. So when your packet, they want to meet you. They bring you and you're with Brian Tucker and Colin Jost and Rob Klein. When you sit down with them, it's basically you have to

get all these different levels and then eventually you're with Eric Kenward and then you're outside Lord Michael's door. What are these meetings like? They just want to make sure that you're you're an okay guy is that essentially that they know you're funny from the packet but is that what they're looking for yeah well at the time you think oh my god they're gonna grill me about comedy and i have to be funny and cool and i need to know everything and they're like maybe they're gonna make me hitch on something or whatever and really i think if you're at that point of coming in to talk to people uh you've been pretty heavily vetted and they're doing like the weirdo checked on some level

and seem kind of like are you fun in person but I don't think any of that knocks someone out it's like really the work matters but you know Lauren has this famous saying he's always like and I'm going to misquote him here I'm sure but he's always like a big

part of it is who do you want to run into the hallway at 2 in the morning so I think that's what the meeting when Lauren is about he's wants to see if you can talk to him. Your meeting was so interesting because I would think the same thing. You bring in like a thick novel because you're going to be out there for hours and everyone's story.

You get in there in 10 minutes, very, very quick. I brought a book. What else are you going to do? Rob Klein made fun of me. Who made fun of you? Rob Klein, I think, was like, what are you doing? What's not the fuck? I don't know.

I heard I might be waiting. That's most people. at least a couple hours, get some reading. So you go in there and you're, you know, Lauren's going to want to talk to me about comedy, but it's for the most part, it's baseball. Baseball, yeah. And that's not what you thought going in,

but you'd been going to some Mets games. He has those Yankee tickets behind the home played and you both kind of bonded over the baseball. I don't know if I would call it bonding necessarily. It was just, uh, that was what we talked about. You know, he said, what are you been doing this summer?

And I said, I realized I could get Mets tickets for like 10 bucks. So I've just been going a ton of Mets games. And then he proceeded to make fun of the Mets and how they're not good and how they don't have a winning tradition, how the Yankees do. And, you know, of course, I'm realizing he's talking about S&L. But I remember clear his name saying,

if you're a Yankee and you don't win, you don't stay a Yankee for very long. And I was like, okay, he's talking about the show here, got it. but I left that meeting fully like I don't know what just had he didn't ask me anything about my background what I think is funny well nothing like that

it was so I was like maybe I don't know this hasn't gone well I could not tell and then later got a call from Colin that day yeah a couple hours later I think they must have met all of them and said okay here are the people we met with what do we think

this person that person You were quoted as saying the first year you're thrown in the deep end. There's no hand holding. And I know that you had quit smoking at one point in the fourth show. Your fourth show, Jim Carrey's hosting. And you said there was just too much pressure and I broke him. Came right back to it. What happened? Do you remember the exact moment? Like, where were you when I just, you just couldn't? In the beginning, it seems like that's for everybody. It's just you're thrown in the pole. You're learning to swim. I think I had a sketch on that was like Pete Davidson who was also new so I was writing with Pete a lot where I was a dress I think I know which one you're talking about

is he like a zombie? Yeah he's a zombie and Jim Carrey's his dad has him on like a pool skimmer and is trying to talk their way in and the way Jim I'm saying Jim like we're friends the way Jim Carrey I met him two times

But the way, you know, he is when you're writing with him, he's just so fast. And his mind is incredible. It's just like this comedy machine. And so I'm just like furiously typing as he's kind of riffing on this. And he liked the idea. So he was just riffing on it a lot. And it was just like, you know, four weeks ago I was hanging out going to Mets games. Now I'm here writing this thing for Jim Carrey.

and I don't want to mess it up. You know, like, I'm already thinking I'm going to get fired every week, of course. And that, you know, this one was going to be on the show. And I think I just got extremely overwhelmed with pressure and went to an old friend. I have to say, though, to get something even to address on your fourth show is pretty remarkable for a new writer. I mean, that's, I mean, I talked to people that have been there in a, took them sometimes months to get anything even in. So, I mean, just to get something to dress.

I was thrilled. I mean, oh, yeah, to get something. Beavis and Butthead with Ryan Gosling, I can't believe it took five years. I mean, I know that you tried with Jonah Hill in 2018. It did get to dress. How did that play a dress? It played good. It played good, but our through line, our straight line for it was that Beck was like a

Scott Peterson type guy who everyone thinks killed his wife. And so the straight line was a little heavy. And so between dress and there, Lauren was like, you got to change the straight line. So I spent basically the rest of dress rehearsal, rewriting it to be like he was a county commissioner had been accused of embezzling funds or whatever. I think I had two other sketches in that show.

I did not get to go down to the bleachers form. I was just up there rewriting this thing. And then, you know, it was in. It was going to be on the show. And then it just got cut for time at the end. I remember Mikey just standing there in the full butt head makeup, hearing, like, it's out. How many times did it go to the table before Gosselin? Were you submitting it?

Twice. No, no, no, no, no. I always, I'm always a fan of, like, if we had something. that I feel very confident will work. I'm like, let's put that in again after enough time. And Mikey just hates that. He just, he gets so tense about it. He never wants to resubmit anything.

But I'm like, we have a decade of ideas here, dude. You know, there's definitely some fun ones. That's a good problem. But how hard is that on the table to put something that they had already heard to get the laughs, which you need a second or third time? well I mean it was pretty spaced out so we did Jonah who was so funny doing it it was great but like the writing of it too wasn't tight enough either that was another problem it just kind of like went too long and then I think we put it at the table with Oscar Isaac with a different

straight line I forget what we went with and it got picked and we were like okay here we go so be fun we're finally going to get this one and then I think think on Friday, before we even did it, a cold open got added or something. And they were like, there's no room. There's just no room in the studio for this. So it got yanked again. And then when Gosling came around, I remember saying to Mikey like, hey, I know you hate doing this, but I think Gosling might be the guy for this. And it was one of the few times, Mikey was like, yeah, you're right. Let's definitely put that in again. So I knew when Mikey, when I got buying from Mikey like this was this if we couldn't get in with

Gosling we were never going to get it we're watching it on the floor you know you're friends with Heidi and Mikey worked with Heidi at the groundlands and you wrote that really funny the did Michael Jordan piece with Heidi I love that one it was really fun when she's breaking is it one of those things where it's like a laugh so laugh and people are going crazy and that or was it one of those things I know she felt bad that she was laughing what was your take on it? And did she come up to you and Mikey right after me like, I'm so sorry?

Because she apologized in the press. And I didn't think it was for this. It didn't, it's a brilliant sketch regardless. And it played on both levels. It didn't distract. I didn't think from overall. I was not mad at all. I mean, I had to run out of the studio at the beginning of that sketch because I heard a weird, someone like had left the open mic channel or something.

like the band like the music guest's like keyboard was still open and that I was hearing like talking coming through the monitor so I ran to the control room and was like you know what I'm sure I use stronger words than what the heck is that and then they were like oh my god there's a mic you know some of whatever they fixed that so I kind of came back into the studio like tense like oh my guy can't believe we finally get to do this thing and there's like an audio problem at the start of it, but I don't think anyone remembers that at all, because as soon as it got going, oh my goodness, the laugh. And as soon as Heidi cracked like that, it was just, to me, it was like she could not help it. And you can't be mad at that. And the makeup was a little bit, it progressed in between dress and live, right? Like, the appearance in makeup and the costume, it evolved a little.

Jody, I think, said she had tweets the Beavis wig. But, you know, like, and dress, to me, it looked pretty close to what it looked like. I mean, I'm sure, you know, if you talk to Louie or Jody, they'd be like, what is he talking about? Absolutely not. We did this and this and, you know, because they're masters of their craft. And I'm standing 20 feet away, you know, watching it. But, I mean, she was laughing at dress, too.

And so was Keenan. Keenan was the one who cracked a dress and I was like, oh my God, I haven't seen Keenan do that in a while. It was just such a delight and so fun. Like, I think Mike and I both felt like, oh, thank God we finally got to do this one. We've always loved this idea. And Ryan was having fun. Everyone just seemed to be having fun except the extras who were just stone face. Thank goodness they were.

I mean, that's, I think what it was. I mean, my favorite stuff on SNL is the non-topical stuff. I mean, I know that people want to see that at some point, but I think the stuff that people remember for the most part is the non-topical stuff. And it was just, it was so funny. Like, close encounter, you wrote that, was it just you and Kate McKinnon? Was it, was Mikey involved on the first one? Mikey.

It was me, me and Kate and Mikey. You said, quote, you're pretty sure that's the reason I still work here. Like seven or eight years later you put a tweet. Was that a sketch that just killed at the table and just did great a dress and got right on? Or was there a progression of that? I could be, you could probably, I might be lying right now. But as I remember it, it was a Hail Mary that Mikey and I threw in. You know, we had talked to Kate about it and she, you know, kind of pitched on it.

And then we wrote it, sent it to her like late. She was like, I love it. You know, I think it was near last in the read. It definitely was not like on the read. They weren't like, this is going to be great. That is very hard if you're at the end of the breakthrough because the energy four hours it's hard everybody's tired yeah yeah it can be you can't help but look when your thing is back there and be like not a lot of confidence in this one i see but sometimes they put ones at the

end too that they think the energy they will bring the energy back up um i don't think this was that though because it's it's all talking there's very little movement in that first one kate did it at the table and she's just so good at underplaying things and so confident and comfortable in her character choice, you know, even if she's not, even if her head is going crazy and she's questioning everything, what comes out is a very confident, clear, in command character choice. And it did well and it went in. It might have been towards the end of the show at dress and then moved up. But it was, you know, I don't think either Mike or I thought, Like, this is going to crush.

And then when it did, I remember at dress, like, Lauren definitely, like, looked at me probably, definitely looked at me and Mikey and was like, nice job, which you don't, you don't get a ton of those. I was about to say, you don't get a ton. To get that from Lauren, something like that is like the biggest hug from, I mean, or the biggest compliment. It was incredible. Yeah, and so I think, you know, I was like, he definitely learned my name after that for real and was like, okay, this guy knows what he's doing on some level. And I think, I mean, honestly, all credits are Ryan Gosling as well. Every time he comes by, he just has helped Mikey and I out in an incredible way each of the three times. He trusts you because you make him look good. You guys give him the best. stuff like somebody like sandler when he finally host because he always said he you know he didn't

think he was going to host for sandler family reunion it was you mikey and kyle mooney do you is sandler around on tuesday and do you get him in in the room when you're writing this do you ever get the host in there on tuesday well they come in and we kind of tell them you know what we're thinking and sometimes they'll like riff with you on it sometimes they'll be like i don't know about that one and sometimes they're they're just like hey whatever you guys want you know uh i remember it to me was samler for for me it was just you know i grew up on this stuff so i was just he took great the whole show yeah it was like oh my god i can't believe you know talking to this guy and he's being so cool and friendly and nice and

but yeah i i i remember he had like a couple just throughout a couple things but he's he's very much like trust you guys you know lynnewell miranda tweeted this photo is from 2016 and it's you and it's at Jeremy, what's his name? Sorry, Jeremy Beiler. Jeremy Byler. It's you and Jeremy Byler in a photo. You're finishing the monologue at 3.30 Friday night, AM, and you're with Miranda. Now, is that one of those things you were assigned to that they said on Friday? You just sit down and you're going to write it. Or did you have an idea that you went to him? Or how did that happen? And by the way, that monologue absolutely killed. And has not, did not stand the test of time. what do you mean i believe i believe in that monologue he points out a picture of trump and he's like

you're never going to be president and there's like two months later i didn't remember that part i knew lynn from from earlier work and when he was doing freestyle love supreme like his pre-hamilton days uh so i think when he was coming to host he i'm sure he was like i'm coming in with a song you know can these guys like help me with it so i i don't think that was either of our ideas so with 30 30 on a friday is it just so much adrenaline is that that's what's keeping you going just the enthusiasm of sitting there and stuff because like i just like i just can't even imagine like having the energy level that to maintain that you know this show lorne designed is so great at keeping the nerves high and the energy high

because there's this ticking clock, and especially with something like a monologue or a cold open, you're like, I know this is going to be on TV in however many minutes. I need this to be as good as it can possibly be. And so you will fill all the time you have before it needs to go to the cards and it needs to get sorted with everything. But I don't think you ever feel tired in those moments where you're,

would you have work to do? It's when the thing has aired that all of a sudden this wave of exhaustion will hit you. I don't know if this happens that you didn't get a sketch on for a week. Is it almost, I don't want to say a relief, but there's nothing you can really do. Maybe contribute to update or contribute to other people, but it is in terms of like I can go home and sleep and stuff. Is it ever a relief? Or that probably doesn't happen to you anymore that you don't get something on, but it does. It does sometimes. You get blanked. You know, you have stuff and dress that doesn't make it. And then you just find yourself sitting there for the show.

I mean, the more I've risen there, the less chance that I'm going to have nothing to do there is, you know. Might maybe be put on cold open or, you know, helping the younger, newer writers with stuff. I've never felt relief if I didn't have anything on. I always felt like, ah, shit, I blew it this week, you know? Pedro Pascal, when you did the Super Mario Brothers piece, you tweeted that in between Dress and Live, the composer, was it Elijah? I don't know the last.

Eli, yeah. Oh, was it Eli. Oh, yes, Brugamann. This is between Dress and Live, was composing music. Yeah. And it started at 11 p.m. and had it an hour later. Why would it be necessary for something between Dress and Life for the music to change?

And are you supervising this since you wrote it? That one I was. That one I remember running back and forth between the editing room and Eli's music room and kind of being like, you know, it's a riff on the different classic Mario songs, you know, and he had done such an incredible one for this Joker, Oscar the Grouch thing a few seasons earlier. He had taken, done like a dark Sesame Street song for us. And so we're like, oh, let's try to get. a version of that. But the music's like changing, you know, based on the scenes and stuff. So it was a lot of just kind of like running and being like, okay, this part needs to be like a kind of big,

crunchy, like don't know, don't know, don't, you know. And I think it's not like we just came up with that between dress and air. It was just not done for dress. And so there just wasn't time. Yeah, there wasn't time. And we even had an extra day on that one. It's amazing how everything. I mean, I know some of those, you said the Chad sketch, one of them was 21 hours in between, you know, you wrapped on Saturday at 3am and it's added in this entire team doing it.

Those guys are incredible. What you've been able to do. How many of the hosts that come in actually have good ideas? Because I know that David Harbor came in with the origin story of Oscar the Grouch, which was one of the funniest pieces. It's actually from Lily Allen, in fact. Was it Lily Allen? It was Lily Allen, who I was such a fan of, and I did not know that they were together. And so he was like, hey, this is Lily.

I was like, oh, what? So you write this thing up, and based on Lily Allen, I know Tina Faye came in and wanted to do a Dick Wolf, Chicago Imprope. It was very funny. And you and Mikey, so how often does this happen when a host will come in with an idea that's actually good when you and Mikey will go together based on a host pitch? Fairly often, I think. you know, I think the hosts are generally like, I have these ideas, take them or leave them,

and we'll always hear him out and listen to him and then kind of sidebar and talk about like, you know, that could be pretty funny. You know, let's put someone on that. And we'll try to match the writer to the idea. Like Pedro had, um, was it like that like weird? He wakes up from a coma and is like,

mom-ma-ma, whatever. So he was doing that. It was just silly, but it was fun. Yeah. And I think Kent and Allison took that one and just kind of like gave it the container and gave it, you know, brought it to life. So Mikey and I are on the hook for those sometimes and try to do a good job with it, you know. Generally, the host knows what they're funny doing or they know what they can do really well. So if they're saying an idea and they believe it, you want to give it.

you want to give them a shot at it. Tell me if I have this right. For pumpkins, which, you know, it's funny because I know generationally I have my nephew who's like in second grade singing the song and kids are dressing up for Halloween and stuff up until, you know, people our age and above. But is it, the reason it really did happen is because Tom Hanks, you're writing another piece and Hanks said he couldn't break dance and used that for another piece later with Chris Pine.

But was that the, that's really what led. Bobby to come in and you kind of pivoted. Is that what happened? Man, it's such a blur. I do remember it coming together at like three or four in the morning. Because I, Mikey and I had another one where Tom Hanks was like Frankenstein that we were like, oh, let's finish that. And then it was like the song was based on that little superstar video, that like

Bollywood video. And then I think like Mikey had separately been. thinking about like a you know like um the tower of terror like the haunted elevator thing and it just kind of came together in this weird again that like fever dream pitching on on this insane thing around the loosest possible structure of like scary thing scary thing weird guy and what it was at the table was not even close to what it ended up being it was so much longer That's what I was going to ask, but it played well enough at the table to get in. Yeah, I remember, again, like, I'm so sleep deprived at the table that people are like, how did that play?

I'm like, you know, I honestly don't. It must have played okay. Must have played okay enough to get picked. But that one was also very unexpected hit, you know? Because address, it wasn't what it was on live. I mean, if somebody watched that, they would be like, this is not the sketch. Yeah, just what, something was just like not quite there. Tom hadn't quite got David Pumpkins like in his soul yet, but then he did.

And it's not like we're, it's not like we have a ton of instruction for him. We're like, we don't know this guy is either. It's just this weird guy who is, there's no, nothing about him makes sense. I think the initial idea is like there was a lot of talk about how was he like a was he like a regional Halloween character that's very well known in a certain area but not outside of it that was making us laugh a lot and then you have an animated special I mean you're emailing people in dinklage do you want to do this what is he going to say of course I mean that was so much fun it's incredible that progression with any

Murphy comes in. I didn't know until you tweeted. He brought in his original, the two guys, Barry Bloustain and David Sheffield, that wrote a lot of his stuff. Yeah. Were they pretty hands-on that week, or was it just that they were just hanging out? No, they were around. They wrote some stuff. They were so nice, and it was cool to just like, you know, I feel like they had a good time being back there, like, but they didn't come in. Like, it's our show. We're Eddie's got. You know, they were very, they were just like, hey, this is so cool to be back here, man. This is fun. I was shocked when he came back. I mean, it was amazing. I know you did Mr. Robinson's neighborhood with Brian Tucker and Mikey Day.

Yeah, I was a dream country. So fun. No, is Eddie on Murphy on those Tuesdays? Is he, is he at all improvising some of that with you? Or is he, are you just, do you just write the thing? How much input did Eddie Murphy have? Because I know back when he would write with the two gentlemen, and he would be very much, you know, acting stuff out and they'd be writing down the, down dialogue. I don't recall him pitching too much on, on that one. Because we, I think there was another Mr. Robinson's neighborhood idea that was like a tape, like a big pre-tap in a lot of locations.

So I think Tucker and I at one point were like, should we not do this one that we thought of? And they were like, no, do it because we might, you know, if that's too much to film, it'd be good to have. have this live one as well. I think, but I mean, he definitely had thoughts and ideas and we changed stuff, but you just feel an incredible amount of pressure taking this, like, beloved characters thing that used to crack you up.

And I was, I was raised on Mr. Rogers. You can't see. I have a signed birthday letter from Mr. Rogers behind me. We'll share Mr. Rogers' stories. I'm going to cover my mom's address here, but Oh my goodness! Now that is very, very cool. I have the trolley here, and then I have the lyrics that he signed from that,

but I was, I love the fact that he wrote you. I'm a huge fan. I wrote it, I invited him to my birthday party, and I think I was four, and he wrote back and politely. declined. I absolutely love that. Could you tell? Because, you know, I was talking to somebody who was an extra in a sketch that Tina Faye wrote. And on Saturday, they were doing it with cameras and rehearsal. And Tina Faye in front of all the extras said, this doesn't work. Could you and Mikey sometimes have that feeling when you were rehearsing? Totally. And how often

are you right that this doesn't work? Is it your instinct normally right that it doesn't play then? Well, address. I guess you never really know, because any time or say, this is isn't working. We change it. And then sometimes it does work and sometimes it still doesn't work. Uh, so it's hard to say, but like, I remember one, one sketch we did was, was like, Mikey and Steve Carell are like astronauts in the ISS and they're giving like, everything's going wrong. They're trying to hold it together because they're on like a broadcast with middle schools. And there was like this huge rig they had initially. Like, you know, some like Leslie Jones was going to float by.

eye on this like a big contraption. It was so big. And we were like, this is not that this needs to be like a tight locked off little shot and they'll just fake the floating. We don't have to try to do real floating and stuff. So I remember like in those instances where you're blocking it and you're like all this, this isn't working. We've been there long enough that we can kind of say like, no, we have to change

it, you know? We can't. We can't go in like this. Who had the best packet that you ever read that was submitting that you were just like, I can't believe this is so good? Is there one that stands out? Dude, I read like, I just got done reading like 300. So we read so many. I can't remember. Is it just pretty clear right away on the first page that you're like, they have it or they don't with their voice or like the first two pages?

Is it pretty clear, I'm guessing? I mean, you know, there's some. kind of dead giveaways that someone doesn't watch the show really and their agents just told them hey you can it should just put in for the show you know when like cast member names are spelled wrong or cast is called like they're calling each other by their own names you know i'm like that's not we don't do that you know we don't do that in live like characters really so how did the guest writers get selected that come in and who were some of the guest writers that you thought were really good when they came in.

We haven't had any in forever. Why do you think? Because there's so many writers? I think there was like a guild rule change that was meant to protect writers from super short contracts or mini rooms or something, but that spilled over onto us that made it like, we're us not allowed to have guest people. I mean, people, you know,

will show up with a host sometimes. like Shane had his boy McKeever there who was I thought was great he was super funny kind of like you know was got it he you know I was like

oh in another world he'd be we would have tried to hire this guy for sure I mean I don't know anytime old writers come back it's always exciting too like sometimes James Anderson will pop in or Paul LaPelle and you're like oh great this is fun

you know When you were at Fordham, your senior year, how much were you actually able to study versus doing college humor? Because you were hired, right, your senior year? So you have both. I was. But I wasn't like working full time. I was hired to write a book with a couple other people that we would start like right after graduation. And then while we were doing that, they kind of were like, do you guys just want to stay and work here and be like writers here? And we're like, I mean, obviously. The timing was amazing.

When you were an intern at Gersh, was that before? Or was that, like, your senior year? That was before. What was that like being in an agency setting for a creative? It was awesome. I mean, my, I don't even know how I'm related to him, but it's like my, like, fifth cousin or something is an agent there. I think a partner now, who's a great dude.

He was really awesome. And so he was like, hey, you can come be an intern here. and I brought my friend Tim I got him in there as well he ended up working there after for real but it was cool I got to do coverage so I would read just

screenplays I would just read screenplays all day and then I have to type up little character and plot synopsis and that's great that you've got so much hands on stuff because a lot of interns do not and the best part was they had a pilot library so all the pilots

from every year unproduced ones and then ones that did get picked up I got to watch all those so I've like seen some weird never aired pilots

of like a Jessica Simpson like three camera sitcom that quietly went away and you have to tell Keenan about the one with because my brother worked on it I actually saw the one with Ciscard was Bob Newhart and Cisco

and Keenan is in it and it absolutely exists I never saw that one people think it's a joke but Keenham was in it. It was pretty amazing. Do you have 50th anniversary? Is there any plans other than Radio City that you know of or what do you have any idea? It's unbelievable. You know, October 75 that the show is still. Yeah. And still so culturally relevant. Yeah, it's, it's amazing. I feel so

honored to be part of it, whatever small little part. But I started my first season was the 40th and that was mind-blowing. Oh, you were at that show with like... I was, yeah. At the plaza where it was like celebrity overloaded. I mean, I've talked to people that were there. It was unbelievable. Unbelievable. So I'm hoping for a repeat of that, I guess, but I don't know what the plans are. You know, I hear like vague, vague things, but I'm sure when we get in there the next few weeks, we'll start hearing more and more. I have to ask you about Larry David when he came in when you did flight the FBI simulator. I talked to somebody that was there at the time and they told me that they were going back and forth during rewrites they're like is this

gonna play it kind of like i don't know did you have that feeling that going in that you just weren't sure was your confidence on that pretty pretty good going in a dress no it's always always shaky because even if i remember larry was laughing a lot or he he found it very funny during the broadcast he was laughing yeah like he found found it funny, you know, when we were rehearsing it and stuff. And so we felt great about that. But, you know, sometimes comedians and comics laugh at stuff that regular people just absolutely hate or just don't find funny at all. So there's always the kind of nagging fear that like, well, we all love this, but are they going to love it too? And that one, that one worked great. It was the rehearsal. That's what I saw when he laughed. It really is. Yeah. But someone in like space pants with Peter Dinklage, which made me laugh, is again,

one of those things at the table. Is Peter Dinklage getting up and dancing for that at the table? I don't know if he got up at the table. I know sometimes they do. I think I remember the dancing being something, you know, because I'm sure we just told him like, yeah, if you dance, whatever, like do the robot or something. And then he had his own whole way to do it, but really added so much to it. What is it like being in that room after the Wednesday read-through because you are there when they're selecting sketches?

It was cool to get in there and see kind of how it all came together and what some of the various factors were because a lot of times you're like... And what are those? That's what I was going to ask. Well, there's tons of them. But sometimes you'd be like, why, how come that one didn't go so funny or whatever? And then you realize like, oh, it's, that would be the fourth, you know, Kate. led sketch of the show and it was the, you know, the least funny of the four. So that's why, you know, it didn't go or they'll say like, let's hold this because it's not really host dependent. We could do it with another host or something like that. And I mean, you know, after the first few times you hear your own piece kind of dunked on, you get used to it. It's like you can't blame anyone for being. The worst thing you could do in that room is make people feel bad for not liking your thing. And I think everyone who's in that room is generally pretty honest about how their

stuff went. You know, you can say, I know that didn't go great, but I think I could fix it and here's how, but you don't want to do that unless you really honestly, truly deeply believe in something. Between Dressin Live, when Lauren is picking with the host and Steve Higgins, are you there for that as well in the room? Yeah, we'll go in for that. Because there's often a lot of questions about did they change this part or what can we do in this part to make that work? Can we cut this chunk out or, you know, what did you lose from this? Because he's, you know, doing all the mental math about, you know, the cast and the timing and taking an account what the host wants to do as well.

Sometimes host, even if something didn't really work, they just love it and they really want to do it and they're like, I know I can get it. And so he's got to weigh that as well. Are the hosts sometimes right? Like, it'll play better live or? I think, like, if it's a trusted host who's done it a lot, it's, you know, you're a little more inclined to be like, okay. Okay, Tom Hanks, I believe you. Thursday night, though, back in the day, they would stay up until 4 a.m.

rewriting the show. You don't do that anymore. The rewrite still happen, but not in the middle of the night. yeah we don't we typically are not staying up super late on on thursday we do our rewrite tables during the day and try to get them try to get them done as fast as we can i mean you still be there till i don't know midnight one in the morning but yeah jim downy was big into like four a m in the middle of the night and yeah it was rough i think for for people with i i think it's yeah it's it's tough you know after Tuesday and Wednesday is always a late one as well to then be like okay and Thursday we're also

going to all stay here till four because a lot of times you've got to you're up at seven six 30 seven in the morning if you have a tape that morning so it's like you get you have to sleep at some point it's unbelievable what you have you and mickey have done and I mean yourself and just the timing of everything from you know you being at Fordham to to getting college humor and just The best timing sometimes is not getting it right away when you submit it. And it just, it seemed like when you did get in Mikey being there and stuff and you both complimenting each other so well. Yeah.

I'll never claim that like my career has been anything but just good timing and being willing to work really hard. I don't think I'm funnier than anyone. Uncilly stuff too. I love that you were talking about how some of the stuff, I mean, that's the best stuff on SNL is like the jack handy silly stuff, I think. Oh, yeah. I really love that.

I think it's, you know, the strength of S&L is always that it's, and I think the reason it's still on is, is that it's so many different types of humor. It has room for all different styles. And like, I always say, like, if I really truly love everything in an episode, that's probably not good, because that means there's someone else who just hated. everything front to back. I never thought of that. So it's like there should always be a piece or two that I'm like, that's not for me,

but people are laughing and you've got to trust the wisdom of the crowd, you know? I love that Nate Burgazzi is giving you and Mikey so much credit for that sketch and for him. I know, he's so sweet to do that. I mean, it's the truth. It's helped his career so much. Do you ever hear from some of these hosts that you write for? Will they like send you something or a note or anything? Does that ever happen?

Not, we don't get like a thank you note, but a lot of times when they come back, you know, they'll be like, oh, my God, last time you guys did that one that was so fun. But, you know, they're generally, I think a lot of the hosts pretty nervous going into it. It's so strange that like there's been like Oscar winners that I'm having to reassure like, no, it's going to be fine. This is going to be good. I'm like, what do I know? Who am I?

this person won an Oscar you know don't name the names but you can see you can just see the fear on their face sometimes yeah because this is not their venue this is not what they are so great at doing and they're

kind of putting themselves in your hands and being like please make me look funny or give me funny stuff to do and so I think you know if you talk to them after the show often there's just some med sense of like a relief that it came off and everyone has always been super nice and complimentary

to us um i love that you and mike um wrote for chloe trost who's so funny yeah yeah and the first season is very very hard i know it's tough and i feel like the stuff that you were writing the um the cast elliott and then the one the duet that she was doing um or so in her wheelhouse to really because that's the thing you want to get these cast members to show up their strength and the first year is very hard. And I feel like that she knocked it out in the park with those two things, the vehicles that you gave her. Well, she, I mean, it's, I don't want to put it at all. Certainly, it's not all on Mikey and I. And I think Mikey and I, in terms of that, the little orphan Cassidy one, I think Mikey said, had just said to her, like, hey, you should do a thing where

you're a sing to the moon or whatever. And, you know, she did that whole song, like the music and everything, the voice, all her. Even Mikey and I were like, you're going to do that voice? Okay. All right. We're like, don't do it. But it was like, okay. But she just kind of had, she just had this vision for that.

And then I felt like our role with that one, especially with a new cast member, who wants to do something ambitious, is to just say, like, we will structure the jokes and the pacing of this thing because we've just done this a lot. And, you know, we'll not like we're always right, but we'll give it the best chance it has. And we'll make sure the production is on point that every, all the technical things and the music rehearsal is happening. But, you know, like put all that on us. You just focus on your performance because that's what's going to make this thing work.

You know, like, you know, the greatest production in the world, but if the performance isn't there, no one's going to care at all. She knocked it out. No, she did great. If you write an update piece with Mikey, do you have to go through proper channels like Dennis McNicholas? Will you go to someone for an update piece? And is that how it kind of like goes through to try to get something on update?

If you have an update idea, you kind of, you'll just, we just go over to the update office and say like, hey, here's the idea. You know, are you guys, are you into it? Are you full this week? You know, should we try it? And, yeah, and then you write it, and it's, they're kind of their own little operation within the show. So if you have that piece on update, you're, at some point, you're going over to the update area. You're with them for a little bit. What is your favorite update piece that you ever wrote?

God, I've written so few. I really loved, all right, can I tell us a brief story? Yeah. Mikey and I wrote this one called, his name is Mort. Felner, I think. And he's a hundred, like, 20-year-old man. And he's doing something called the super centenarian news, where he's going to tell news about other 110-plus-year-old people and what they're up to. And he's like, it's Mikey playing him. And he's just like, little old guy who's like, hi, hi, Callie. We wrote it. And the thing, the joke is all the story to end when the person

died peacefully in her sleep later that day. They always end up dying or something. And so we loved this thing. We had it. We were like, oh, this is so fun. We did that dress. It did incredible. It did so good.

We're like, oh, nice. This is great. Then Che goes out to do the warm up for the live show, right? And he's doing the kind of warm up. He's doing jokes and stuff. And he's, you know, he always asks like, hey, is anyone here? you know, from far away, has anyone traveled to be here.

This guy in the back goes, I'm with my dad. I forget where they were from. He's like, I'm with my dad or my grandpa. It's his hundredth birthday. And he's a, he's a World War II veteran. And there's this old man with the veterans hat on in a wheelchair with a balloon tied to it up back of the bleachers and I was like oh no and Shane went up to Mike he was like I think it's gonna go better now and it did not it did not it still went on air and it was you did you could

feel how uncomfortable the room was the whole room was just like there's a hundred year old man over there like I don't want to laugh just because of the warm up it wasn't it wasn't Chase fall up. No, no, no. But just those factors that the people at home have no idea. We were all laughing. Oh, it was so funny. I remember Lauren going, never, never

in 40 whatever years has that happened. And so, I mean, even though it was like, we were bummed that it didn't go as well. It was just one of those things. You're like, that's so funny that that happened. Everything about

it. The veterans had the balloon. on the wheelchair. It was like, oh, no, we're so scary. It sounds like a sketch in itself, almost. It does. It feels like a sketch, but I promise you it happened. It happened. And it was magical. And I think Mikey would tell a very similar story if you asked him. Straighter Side-Dell, thanks for doing this. How did this go? I really appreciate this. I've wanted to talk to you for a long time, so. I, I, you tell me. Oh, my goodness. This was amazing. This was incredible. And just, I'm just. I'm just. sitting here blabbing over there no no no you call you caught me at a day where my my kids are with my

wife so it's not like nobody's running in behind me screaming about a lego i really feel like in 10 20 years or maybe even now like you and mike will be like mentioned with smigle and downy and handy and there aren't many people on that list there really really aren't i think that's absurd but man if that happened that would be it's the truth i do not feel that We are due that honor, certainly. I think we're just every week, just struggling to get through. You have the Robert Smigel Modesty, and he was a really big fan of some of your pieces, and we love the Beavis and Butthead especially, so can't do it much better.

I mean, any time one of those guys, you hear even the faintest compliment from one of them, you're just, you know, you're blown away. Like, you had mentioned that Seth had said nice things. about watching, he came up to our office and, like, to just say he liked it. And, you know, I'm sure we acted like absolute morons because, like, that doesn't happen. It was like, oh, thanks, dude. That's amazing. But, like, it means so. He's ever done that before. It meant so much to me. Because, like, those are the people who kind of taught you what to do. They didn't teach you directly, but you watch their stuff and you, and you're like,

Oh, he was a heavyweight. So prolific. Yeah, amazing. And you're like, God, if I can, if I, if only I were as good as one of them, you know, they teach you this art form. And you can just, the best you can hope is a pale imitation. So I'll never think that we're as good as any of those guys. But it's very nice to hear you say it. That's the truth. You have the Smigle modesty. Thank you for doing this. I am beyond grateful. you have an amazing year and you don't have to read any more packets right you're like done we're done with packets for now but i i hope so that was a lot it's a lot it's a lot but you know what it's like important that we read all of them and we really truly consider them because you know we've all

been that one sending it in crossing our fingers and hoping someone looks at it you know what it's like how many of those actually did you laugh out loud like a lot like a lot a comedy people can read and be like, oh, this is funny, but did you laugh out loud at all? There was one this year that really made me laugh. And I don't know what the, I don't know what will happen with the writer of that packet, but hopefully they will come work here. I hope so. But I was like, that is pretty rare, especially after you read, you know, 20. And you're with the best people. I mean, you're with the Yankees, as Lauren says and stuff. so I'm going to have somebody

to be able to do that. Yeah, it's just, it is pretty rare to laugh, but like you said, you know, you're more analytical about a lot of it. You're going, that's clever. That's fun. Exactly, exactly. Well, thank you so much for doing this.

This was such a thrill. My pleasure. My pleasure. I love this, and I hope to run into you sometime and say hi and stuff. So, who knows? You know where I live now. I do. Mr. Rogers, we can, yeah, swap stories.

All right. Well, it was really good talk in you. Good luck with everything. You too, Mark. Thanks, Mark. Thanks, ma'am. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news,

and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward-slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. Thank you. We're going to be. Thank you.