Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - T. Sean Shannon Returns

Episode Date: January 28, 2025

T. Sean Shannon returns to discuss his 8 years writing for Saturday Night Live, Tracy Morgan, &  SNL hosts Hugh Jackman, John McCain, & Adrien Brody.

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today we continue our conversation with comedy writers' stand-up, T. Sean Shannon, including more of his eight years writing for Saturday Night Live. Now, it's time to go inside late night. May of 2003, people on the West Coast and Central saw Adrienne Brody present music wearing dreadlocks a wig, which was not approved by the show and doing, it was like 30 seconds of him doing this Jamaican accent and introducing a gentleman, the musical guest, I'm a Jamaican singer. This was not approved. Tell me, I don't know where, if you were in the writer's room, which I've been there online.

Where were you when this happened? And what stands out? Because I can't even imagine what Lauren, who's, you know, this reputation being very cool and collected. I mean, 30 seconds off is so much, because it's. time to the second for every sketch that he does this and it could be portrayed as some people would be offended by what stands out about this dude i i i'm not easily offended so that didn't offend me at all but i just thought it was that guy was kind of goofy that's what tina said that's what

tina fay said that i'm working with him was not the most fun wasn't pleasant he didn't you know what he he wasn't mean he's kind of harmless idiot is a harman goof who thinks he's funnier than he is or whatever and you know what cracked me up he went on i think uh maybe pinky blinders yes and dude he just straight up does marlin brando's godfather character which it's like what but made perfect sense when i saw who it was and then that said he was genius as Pat Riley. Oh, I love that series. That was very, very good.

It wasn't the logical choice that I would have thought, but I loved that entire series. I really wish that would have come back. Kenan Thompson wrote a book. He mentioned that in 2003, there was a sketch that you wrote called Randy the Bellhop, and it went to dress rehearsal. It was Alec Baldwin,

Rachel Dretch, and Keenan, and this was right when he got there. And Keenan said he messed the sketch up, and it just completely bombed. Kenan said it was his fault. And he didn't say your name, but he said the writers in general then following that show just were kind of like avoiding him a little bit because he was not established at all. Do you remember that particular sketch in what happened? And is that your memory? I remember the sketch. I don't remember it bombing. I don't remember him ruining it. I don't remember

any type of blacklist after that. I don't. He didn't say blacklist, but he just said people, it took a while to get back. Well, no, no, but I don't doubt it. And that is a lonely, lonely place when you are not doing well. I do remember people my first year stopped putting Fallon and stuff because he laughed every sketch they said and that pissed people off. That didn't last long though, because like they just, he started to get into everything, but that's interesting. Yeah, but I remember early on, they were, and I went out of my way to put him in sketches. And I even made Nick Burns for him. But no, any injustice, I always try. I didn't feel

I, dude, I don't remember I felt bad because I've always like Keenan, never had a problem with him. But I also forget how lonely it is after you've been there for five years, you forget just how scary it is your first

year. He's younger than I think anybody at the show at that point as well. And it takes, sometimes it takes people while, yeah, you, Nick Burns, that was November of 1999, Fallon, big breakthrough character, the computer IT. I did that, and I put him in a Jack Black sketch. I remember the princess and the monster.

I forget what it was. They were sacrificing a virgin to the monster, and Jack Black was the monster, and he was Sir Galahad or whatever. But I remember that, but also, you know why I probably remember that? Because we were roommates or office mates, and it was my first year, too, or second. you know and you're still fresh but no i felt horrible when i heard that when i heard that about keenan because i didn't yeah it's people's memories and it is one of those things where people

are so busy and occupied when you're a new person when al sharpden hosted the show you wrote that sketch of the three wise men getting pulled over for racial profiling and you have jimmy uh fallon who's a on a camel and he's a plane a police officer and he pulls over the wise men are you know, Al Sharpton and Keenan, Thompson, and Tracy, Morgan. Now, tell me if I have this, right? This actually, you wrote this, but it was inspired by your brother, right? My brother Charlie had that idea, and then he passed away the next week. Oh, my goodness, I'm so sorry.

No, that is a bummer. Yeah, no, it's 20 years ago. Still rocks my world every time I think of it. But my brother, that was my hero, who watched S&L, and we wrote together, and he didn't stand up to him, we wrote together, but he goes, hey, how about an idea where they're writing that three wise men get pulled over by Roman soldiers because they're black guys? And so that's where that came from. And that was, so that was very cool. That was, and I love it even more now. But me and my brother did a Christmas show every year.

We would always do Christmas-related schedules. Like, we did one. It was the little drummer boy and his brother Shecky. And the little drummer boy just did rem shots for his, brother, the comedian who came to perform for Jesus, and it's like, hey, I'm still putting BC on my checks. Anyone else? How about a hand? And then it's, uh, hey, how am I doing on time? I should ask the oxen lamb. The oxen lamb kept time, folks. Come on. And so it was something like that. And then we did a Joseph checking into the motel VI trying to get a room, but they didn't have one. So we had to go to the manger. And so we would do these sketches. And then we would always talk about Christmas ideas and he was like, hey, how about this where they get pulled over?

I went, oh, that's a good idea. And so, yeah, that was one of my faves. It got on early on the show. No, it did. It really did. Well, I'm looking at some of your... Hey, that show, I had five sketches go to dress. I have never heard that. That's like Robert Smigel, like Mikey Day Streeter. Corn would be like that, too, I heard. That's amazing. But I had five, I think two made it. Two made it to air. but I had five, I wrote one where he became, this was cool. So I wrote one where he was elected president in whatever world. So it's his first day as president.

And then Al Franken had a similar idea. And so Lauren goes, do you mind? Why don't y'all just work together and do it? So how cool is that? I'm going to write a sketch with Al Franken or get to work with him. So that was super cool for me. Because again, that's interesting that Al Franken was guest writing that week with Al Sharpton. So I don't know if they knew each other.

Just because I think because he just had that one idea about him being president and we combined our thing. And that didn't make it because there was a chunk in the middle that didn't work. But Bill Clinton coming in killed because it's Daryl. That's like sure fire magic. Yeah. I mean, it took him. He's another person the first season. It took a little bit of time. Yeah. And he, but then like, I mean, yeah, he just got him in front of the audience. So how did Brian fellows go from an update piece by Hugh Fink, then to Tim Hurleyhee, who went to Hugh Fink and said, can I read, do this as a sketch? And then Hurley he leaves. How does that go then to you? So Hurley, he's leaving. Also, the guy I learned most from when I was at S&L as a writer.

He taught me so much. What did he teach you? Last swing and miss. That was a big thing. He goes, yeah, man, you go for too many laughs. Wait for him. Don't swing at every pitch. everything doesn't have to be a joke that was a big thing he taught me so pacing so he goes hey i've got this idea i'm leaving the show and i've got this idea and he explains to me it's like this really dumb guy who has an animal show but he knows nothing about animals and doesn't even really like animals that much at the end i think it's a dream where he imagines something in his head and so he goes you write the last you write the dream part and he wrote the first two beats or whatever. And I wrote the last beat. He was leaving. And then I just took it over from

then. And then Tracy was my office mate. What was that like? Wonderful. Dude, he's roller coaster crazy. Like, you're scared, but at no point will you get hurt. It's like, oh, that was bold. That was interesting. He's such a sweet dude. He would. And then also I'd write, I wrote a lot of sketches for him. I wrote his whole backstage with Lauren thing. That was you. Okay. That really got him over in terms of got me a sprite. And that was you? Yeah. That was me. And then also when I would write him other sketches, I would give him to him. Every week, this was, he would go Tuesday night and it's like 8.30 and he's going to go do stand-up spots. But he would go. T, I had a good week last week. I think I'm going to take it easy this week. You got me covered? I go, yeah, I got you covered. Tracy.

He would leave every Tuesday night. That was a conversation. But whenever I would get a sketch, I would write it. for him and then I would give it to him and he would turn it into he would change lines to make them tracing and it was like at one point the one i the one that's really distinct that i remember loving going okay i couldn't have come up with that in one million years he goes uh yeah have him say i bet your bedroom smells like pink cookies i went okay i'm not even completely sure what that means, but okay. And of course, it destroyed. Yeah, me and Tracy were buds. You were at the 25th anniversary. What stands out? People eyeballed my wife. That was kind of nice. It happens. Bill Murray does the cold open with Garrett Morris and Dan Aykroyd and Lorraine Newman and think the party was in the

Rainbow Room. I remember saving Lauren from Gary Busey. I remember that. Tell me about that. So, it's before the show, Lauren is walking through and Gary gets him. Gary grabs him and then keeps going, look at my eye, Lauren, man, I'm back. I'm here. I'm here, Lauren. I'm ready. Whenever you need me, I'm here. And crazy Gary Busey.

And I remember going, hey, Lauren, they're looking for you in the booth. They need you right now. I have to go, Gary. And when Lauren turns around, thank you. So you saved him. And so I remember, that's what I remember from 25th. And just cool, seeing every person. You mentioned in an interview that Colin Quinn and Mike Shoemaker really were looking out for you, your first year.

How so? Yeah. Okay, so I shared a office with Colin Quinn and in living color. So we had an office there, and he was out in California. for that time and we became great friends and dude i i don't think there's a better stand-up than quinn i dude that guy he's so smart so funny just yeah to me and he can do no wrong i think he's brilliant so when i first got there it took me probably four or five weeks to get something on but i was doing update jokes i think i got a couple update jokes on and i was

you know, I was holding my own. I think they just help Lauren go, no, he's doing good or whatever. That's great to have somebody like Colin and someone like Mike Shoemaker on your side of very... Yeah, no, no, no, definitely. You're a stand-up. What was it like when Kevin Brennan was there for a year at the show? You know, I had an internship and then I worked at Spin City and Kevin was the warm-up. You know, he's one of those guys that is just really, really funny, but can be, you know, sometimes he,

He, people, rubs people the wrong way, and I think he might think that's funny that way. I don't know if he, if it's, comedians, comedians are the biggest, weirdest, self-involved people, and me included, I'm including myself. Comedians are socially awkward for the most part, just lone wolves, and it's hard to get along with people, and it's, uh... Kevin was really funny. He did an update piece, I remember, but, um... No, no, definitely a funny guy, and I remember, because he was making. update. I think he just wrote update joke. So he wasn't doing sketches that I remember. No, he was just doing update. Yeah. So I always got along with him and I would go an update. When I first got there, my favorite, one of my favorite things is they would have these packets. Do you know the packets

for updates where it's all the setups? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Scott Weinstein would put those together. Yeah, he's still there. Is he? Yeah. Dude, what a cool dude. So he would do those and me and Adam McKay would fill out everyone and then we would Xerox copies and we would turn one copy it and then we would give the other one our copy like I would give mine to Adam and he would get me his and dude it was the funnest to read those and I think because we're doing every joke half of them are for us that's what I kind of figured it was just to amuse you guys but then there would be ones for us that got through just because they were like a fox or a helicopter crashed into the river in New York and traffic helicopter and it was I think the WB rowboat was there

to cover the story I do remember that one I do remember that which that was my case that was my case and I could not stop laughing at that one that was for Colin yeah Quinn that did very well I do remember that one. It was really funny. If you had to pick maybe one, two, or three of the most surreal moments of SNL, like if you had a snapshot and you just with people that you were with in the situations and just maybe the circumstances, what are maybe one or two of those most surreal from your time there?

Dude, being in a room with Monica Lewinsky was really weird at that time. And nothing that she did or... It was just at the time she. was in the news she was just everywhere and and she had this there was something bizarre about the guy who was with her and it wasn't her it was him this this gentleman it was this guy oh wow yeah and i remember here's another weird fact that i remember 25 years later dude he destroyed the the individual bathroom just destroyed with a smell not with uh not he didn't rip it up like a rockster He just funked the place out.

I remember that and this weird grin on his face as he came out. And then, yeah, just, he was weird and pushy. And then there's this girl that the FBI had in a hotel room. Try to pressure her to crack and blah. So it was just, that to me is one of the most surreal just, and it really hitting you when she goes, yeah, no, just her talking and mentioning how they had her, like yelling at her and it's a little and you and then you're looking at her and it's a little kid

you know younger people sometimes listen to this back then there was no very little i would say public empathy for her at that point it did come later much much much later but um every late night show pretty much was doing um jokes about her no relentless it was brutal it kind of hit too because I'm looking at this young kid and we're in a room together and it's not someone else talking to me about it or it's not and it's her and then also I feel horrible

that that guy is her liaison or whatever he was handler is supposed to help and this guy I'm looking at him going this guy's a weasel man so that was surreal moment number one is there a number two or is that just basically no I have a story but not it's not surreal

I was going to say I'll give you one and then I want to hear your story. I was going to say, how about hanging out with John McCain in his dressing room while he's saying Streisand? Dude, here's so. That's kind of surreal. I don't know if it's surreal.

It's just wonderful. I think it's just different. I mean, you could, there are a lot of things, but it's... He comes to my office, so they bring the host around, and he comes to my office Tuesday night, and he walks in,

and dude, the most relatable human being, immediate like him, and it's like you can say it's political or whatever but it's it's honest because he walks in my room and he goes uh and so i have a poster on my wall i have a bunch of posters on my wall and i have a wayland jennings poster that my friend meredith got for me it says hey t shan love s and l waylin jennings so heaven right there and then i also have a johnny cash poster which is very famous of him shooting the rod. So now it's in my office here.

But this is a famous. So I have this very famous, and this is like he put in Billboard magazine going, thanks for all the radio play for my album, which they gave him none. So I have these posters in my office. And McCain walks in and goes, you know, Waylon was one of my constituents.

He was such a nice guy. Gives me a Wayland story. Then I tell him my idea about him singing in Streisand. He really like, oh, that's funny. I'm not a singer. I think that makes it better. Don't worry about that. And then he goes, you know, Johnny Cash?

I was on Larry King with him. It was the last time he was on Larry King and we were both guests. And then he passed away a short time after that. I was always a big fan of Johnny Cash. Then he signed my book, and then he also, we had one other thing we talked about, and I don't remember right off the bat. Was that a common thing that the hosts would come around and you would have them sign something? No, I was really shy about that.

I didn't like doing that. Like when I was at the Tonight Show, I would take pictures with people this long before phone cameras had a disposable thing, and all the comedy legends that came by Phyllis Diller, the Smother Brothers Anybody like that I would take picture with You were friends with Jack Douglas Dude no I wanted to be friends

I was friends with his wife Oh okay you were with Raco That's why I asked you about Bob Smith With Raco So me and Raco and I met his kid Bobby And so I love that book My brother was an only child

I found it And then As I was getting up my thing and this is 1980? Can we just give context a little bit? Jack Douglas and Raco were on Carson all the time. And Jack Pard. So him and Jack Pard were buddies.

They went on all these shows. And Carter was known for being a little cantankerous, I would say. Maybe in there and stuff, but definitely a legend for sure. So you knew Raco. That's amazing. So I knew Raco and Bobby. But I love Jack Douglas. And when I met Bob Smith had come to the Tonight Show,

I was the new guy there and everyone knew Bob Smith. I didn't know Bob Smith and we were talking and then somehow Jack Douglas came out and he goes, oh my God, do you know Jack Douglas? I go, yeah, I love Jack Douglas. Are you kidding me? And he told me about this one bit

and it was just ping pong balls. Just everywhere you open ping pong balls would come out. And then one, he opened a safe and he opens his big safe and then you hear this giant ball rolling. And then one tiny ping pong ball comes out at the end. And that's how this gets into it.

And that just cracked me up. And that guy was so funny. So Bob Smith goes, you know, I'm friends with his wife, Raco. I go, oh, I would love to meet RICO. So I went to lunch with RICO a couple times. She would come see my show. She gave me a script. She wanted to, that he wrote, that I tried to rewrite.

but never happened, but no, I loved, dude, I loved him. I wish I would have met Jagd Douglas. That's very cool that you got to meet so many old school comics. And since this is about late night, you were a writer over at Vibe when Sinbad was the host. Yeah, when Sinbad took over, yeah. That was syndicated. What was that experience like? Well, you know, Quincy Jones, I got to meet Quincy Jones.

I went to Quincy Jones's house. How cool is that? Yeah, now for sure. Also, call me Q. I'm not calling you. you, but okay. Yes, sir. That was Bob De Niro, too. Call me Bobby. Yes, sir. I'm not comfortable enough to call you Bobby, but okay. But no, that was okay. I think it was a, you know, it didn't work out, but it was okay. And then Magic Hour, I know that they, they let you go like three

days before the premiere, like a week before. Yeah, so I had a bad manager who had got me a deal for pre-production I only got paid half my salary and then once the show started I would get my salary and then they had already given up on that show by the time and they oh we gotta make cuts but no I had a bit on the premiere

but also there was a guy dude there's so many people that ruin everything there was Magic's handler Lon Rosen idiot I was like yeah he's gonna come out and do a monologue every night and I'm like, yeah, no, it's hard to do comedy. How about you, we embrace that and go, you know what, I got two jokes I'm telling

tonight, get ready, and like you embrace that this isn't what he does. And the thing of what this guy is, is he's incredibly charming. Why don't we focus on that and let him just tell two jokes? And that way there's no pressure on the writers. We can come up with two good jokes. no no magic can do anything then he can't comedy's really hard

sorry you can't that job behind the desk to carry something like that I mean every night of the week I think he could I think he's interested

at people I think he could interview people I think if you set it up where he is the ringmaster more than you know but even they bring a guy

I think they had Craig's Shoemaker that's true here's the side cake okay so and then even the way they introduce him this is your stupid uncle who and it was like a put down to him before he even gets out there it's some weird i forget what if you could find the intro it was uh what an idiot thinks uh compliment is when it's actually a very passive aggressive crappy statement to make about a human being you know what was the story you were going to tell before when i mentioned mccain stricent i don't remember

Oh man. Sorry listeners. I know that whenever I listen to a podcast and they said that they had somebody had a story, we're going to get back to and they don't. I'm always like, come on. That's okay. No, that's all right. I know J.B. Smooth is giving credit for the funniest fake pitches over at S&L. Was there anyone else that even touched him in terms of funny pitches? Or was it basically here? I wasn't there, but I heard Norm used to do great one. Oh, I heard that Norm as well. But when you were there, it was pretty much his show. You know who had the best fake pitches? Stephen Craig. Do you know about Stephen Craig? No, tell me. Okay, so Steve and Craig, me, and Jerry. Jerry Collins was there for like eight episodes. Jerry Collins. So we all start today. We all start the same day.

So we're all new writers. So Jerry comes out of the box hot. He gets stuff on like the first three shows. I think I hit show four. I got a show that went to dress, second show, a sketch. And then I think I get a sketch on five. in, Steve and Craig, I think, after Christmas break, and then he has a breakthrough and starts getting stuff on. Very unusual, funny guy. I don't know how many years in the run. I remember

Juliana Marconi's was one of the host. He would do bits. He would come in and he would have a bit every week, 20 weeks. He has a bit. One week, he gets someone from the tour group to wear his he had a corduroy brown jacket and a green hat he always wore. And so this kid comes in and sits in the crowded room and pitches his ideas. Lauren keeps looking at me, like, not him. He's in on it, and so Lauren's happy at that point. But this guy would do that stuff. He dressed like Mark Twain once.

Did the writers think this was funny? Did it work well for the writers? Dude, it worked. I love the hearing that It worked So then Juliana Marqualees I remember this

He's like I don't really have it in I mean today Here's my ideas He hands them to Juliana Marquale And she goes I don't have any ideas

This week Please just laugh Like something I wrote was super funny I have a kid at home She's only one years old And she's sick And that's what I've been dealing with

So please Just help me I can't lose this job. I need the insurance for my sick kid. Just laughing. Oh, that's a good one. I want to do that. And that would help me.

Please, please do that. I'm not going to do that. I'm going to answer the notebook. So he did that. And then the final one, I think it's the Jackie Chan show. And they won't let him, he's got, is he dressed like death or death is going to come in and get him? I don't know what it was, but Stephen Craig always had something. going that were, dude, hilarious. How long was he there? He was there at least three years,

I think. I need to. I've never heard this. You should track him down. Did it help you when you would have a stand-up? It was a host like Ellen DeGeneres, for example. I mean, obviously you have to have a funny sketch that you're pitching, but I know that you wrote the Kitty Singleton, federal agent undercover sketch for her. Was it one of those things? Like, did you know her from stand-up? Do you have a bond sometimes? No, I didn't know her. I knew. Who do at a host I knew coming in. I knew Lucy Lou through a friend. Who else? I didn't know that many I don't think I didn't really know Dane Cook. I didn't know Ray Romano maybe from stand-up. Knew him in passing but never hung out with the guy ever. I knew Norm. Yeah, I didn't know many

stand-ups that came in. I mean, I knew of them obviously and we had crossed past in some very vague way, but never, like, never knew anybody, like, kind of knew Lucy Lou, but just through a friend, our mutual friend was like, yeah, hook up with Tishon, he'll take care of you, he'll protect you, or whatever. Could you tell a different vibe in terms of the material it was getting on when Adam McKay was head writer versus when Tina Faye came in? Because the headwriters, they definitely have Lauren's ear, and they definitely can influence what gets in. And a lot, Sometimes they just have different styles. Could you notice a difference between the two of them?

That's a good question. I wouldn't have to think about it more. Dude, that guy's brilliant. Yeah. I don't throw the word around a lot. Dude, that guy's genius, man. That guy, that guy's next level. When they read my packet, I told Fred Wolf, I told Colin Quinn, and maybe one other person.

I go, yeah, they're just waiting for Adam McKay to read it. And all three goes, he's super funny. Like, that's not something comedians cough out, like, you know, word association, what they did with him. Adam McKay, super funny. They were not hiring a lot of standups back then, too, so as writers. So, I mean, that just shows you how good your packet was. If you get a host that really champions a sketch, I've talked to some of the writers, it's one of those things where sometimes if they don't fully champion, it can be gone just for different circumstances. Now, when you did Christmas kangaroo for Hugh Jackman, it was one of those people.

pieces where did they go to him and said we might not have time and he's like that's not going to happen this is getting in okay so here's me this is me knowing the system and gaming it at that point i want like he loved that sketch and we hit it off he also didn't know my wife was in the crowd but he kind of eyeballed her when he was waiting to come out to do the musical guest or whatever he looked at it and was like hey so that's nice but his wife showed up and i i bowled her no His wife showed up and was like, oh, he told me about your sketch. You're T-Shan. Okay, he told me about your sketch.

So he was a big champion of it. And then I told him, I go, now, once, you got to be careful because he can always, it's going to be the last sketch. I guarantee you that. And if they want to get rid of it, they're going to tell you, ah, we don't have time. So be aware of that when you go in after during update or the music act, if you make sure. and so he went out of his way to keep going. No, but we're doing Christmas kangaroo.

I'm doing that, right? There's no way. Oh, no, we're doing that. Okay, I don't want to hear anything else about it. That's the one we're ending the show with. So he knew that they sometimes, it's not me. It's time we only need. And then we have to.

So I wish, wouldn't it be great if we could do that? But so I gave my heads up to that to where he was like, oh, okay, I'll be aware of that. You were smart to tell him that because, I mean, sometimes that you, the host really have to, is Gwyneth Palsh for another example where they were going to cut due to time? I was going to have to cut a half a minute out of it. And she just goes, I'll read it fast. Don't worry. One joke I was going to cut.

She goes, I really like that joke. Let's, dude, I'll just read it fast. And that was hardcore rock. and she was able to do that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was just she, yeah, I mean, she's a pro. That's a thing. Most of these people are pros.

They come in and nail it. That was a sketch, though, that they were going to cut for time, though, and she spoke up. No, I had to lose time out of the sketch. Oh, okay. They were doing that sketch. That sketch was committed, but he goes, dude, it's 30 seconds too long. I need you to lose a chunk. I need you to lose at least one beat.

I was going to lose the carrier lotion with the hand cream or whatever it was. She goes, no, look, I'll just read it real fast. I'll just read it real fast. Don't worry about that. And she knew going in that it had to be, she had to zip through it. And so she did that. When you went to In Living Color, what was a highlighter to? The Wayanses were gone by then, correct, when you got there?

Yes, they were gone. Jim Carrey was there. Colin Quinn was there. Nick Backeye was there. And Greg Fields, who is, he was one of the headwriters. That was cool. You know what was? It was so completely different to where they would assign you characters and stuff.

And it would be like, like I wrote a fire marshal bill just because he goes, hey, we need a fire marshal bill in an operating room. Okay. And then at S&L, it's like, no one can write your characters except you. And then they're always yours and you write them. And that was super different. there and then also we it was all pre-taped so that was fun and then it was uh yeah no it was a it was a great learning experience gregg fields taught me a ton i mean that's the thing every place you go you're

going to learn you're going to get better you're going to learn stuff you're going to learn stuff that you can repeat and go here's something else then you learn stuff that you don't know you've learned and it just becomes ingrained right just from doing it and so the one thing i learned there talking heads talking heads will kill you in a sketch show and i brought that to s and l and i was showing someone example i was showing my daughter an example about this to where the owen wilson is the voice of the cars guy and they're doing a cars three or something did you see this sketch it sounds familiar okay so owen wilson's doing a voiceover of mckew or i've never seen cars but so it's him just doing voiceover and his character's now a dirtbag and he's like i'm going to get that

teenage girl pregnant he's like what the hell is going on and he before he can even object they go oh wait we got another thing we got larry the cable guy he's going to come in and you can do it back and forth so it was really nice that it wasn't just him in a booth they had video they had a video thing of his character and then they had another guy come in larry the cable guy so it was like what would have been a talking head sketch is now you've got video you've got the board up there with the cartoon character in it

you got the guy on the soundboard chiming in a little you have another guy enter it you have him going hey am I sure walking around so it's more than like that could have easily just been talking heads and it wouldn't have been as good as it is that's talking heads was a big one I learned it in living color

and I wanted to mention that you when you were working at Leno which, I mean, you're working on network television show, the tonight show. You were still practicing writing Saturday Night Live sketches. It wasn't one of those things where I'm just going to coast. I mean, you were still... Yeah, no, that was the ultimate goal is Saturday Night Live. That's what I always wanted to do.

I mean, how could I not? I love hearing that. What was your favorite day at the show and what was your least favorite day? If you could look back with the highest and the low... Because people I've talked to will tell me it's the highest, highest, the lowest lows. The high, dude, I, I, after my Parnell sketch was probably the lowest low that night, because I, dude, I had committed. I've felt like, like a defensive back who knocked out a wide receiver, but, boy, he got his bell rung, too, doing it.

But I bet you the writers respected it. I mean, don't you think that everybody respected you for having the guts to do something like that? I mean, that is the most rebellious Norm MacDonald thing if there ever was something like that. But are people, are people, do people like comedy and that type of as much as me and you? I don't think they do. I don't know, but maybe it's part, it's not a good business move. And I think a lot of those people are business oriented. You want to get stuff on.

So that was the low. Yeah. So the high, dude, I don't, I don't remember what the high was. There were so many. There were, there were so many. I mean, you know what the high was? Here, this is an easy one. Why didn't I think of it earlier?

My mom and dad coming to the show. It's Kelly Rippa. Dude, I remember that weekend's so great. And my oldest brother, Jimbo, my oldest brother. He's like 15 years older than me. So I don't even really remember him being in my house when I was a kid, really, because he left when he was 18. He came that weekend too.

So my dad comes to the show. I go into Lauren's office. I go, hey, do you have a minute to meet my folks? Oh, T. Sean, I'm so busy, but fine. So he's super cool about it. Love, dude, Lauren's the most charming human being ever. Charms my mom and dad. So my parents go to dress.

They go home. The next morning we have brunch. My dad at brunch is going, hold on. How did that sketch make the show? And this one? got cut and not even my sketches but broke the showdown just like i did the first time i went to dress at paul riser and any lennox you know everybody's been studying but even my dad an engineer from nassah it's like yeah we get it kelly rippa has a bunch of jobs that's the first four

sketches you're kidding me how do you yeah what happened to this sketch that sketch was funny and they didn't do that but they did four sketches about she works a lot i don't understand how and i'm like welcome to my sunday morning brunch every week my friend so that was that was my highlight just because my parents had such a good time and my dad was like right i'm not crazy so that was that was my highlight dude anything with my parents is my highlight i love that that they would that they could be there and see their son and his dream come true. What were the after parties like? Do you have any after party stories? Not really. I would only go to after parties when I had guest in town. I thought politically you would have to go almost

every week just to get seen. Not writers. People don't like writers like that. Cast members, yeah, it's always, I think cast members, they want you to. Daryl stopped. Daryl Hammond stopped doing it and then Norm stopped doing it. But pretty much everybody else for the most part. But I think if you drink if you if you stop drinking that's not a good place to be true also i i don't want to pay twelve dollars for a beer 15 dollars for a beer people think it's free when people are like a saturday night live party and it's unless it's at the rap party at the end of the season at the ring no it's it's everything cost dude it's jacked up and i but if like people were in town i could live vicariously through people being excited going uh oh

look who that is or whatever like my sister came and i brought her and my older sister and she only watched she doesn't watch much tv she only watched law and order and so anyone who came into the party hey there's james gandolphini was he on law and order no he wasn't on law and order and then eventually someone came who was from law and order it was a guy i go wait that guy played a lawyer in this episode she goes yeah i know him so funny but like people for out of town loved it. And dude, I would vicariously love it through them. That it was so fun for them. And dude, I completely get it. I think it's cool. I was excited seeing James Gandalfini or whatever. Yeah, I mean, to go to something like that and of people that really love the show,

I mean, everyone stays at their table for the most part with the cast and the writers. And then eventually it just everybody starts mingle in and stuff in at 4 a.m. they leave. And then there's an after after party. Did you ever go to the after after? party at the one. I went to one with Justin Timberlake because I had guest in town who loved Justin Timberlake. Those were tough to stay up. I went to a bunch of them. Not a bunch, but I went to a few at least. I mean, and dude, they were cool. I don't were, but it was

4 a.m. And I can't do that anymore. Pro bro, bro productions. Bro bro production, baby. But, uh, no, you know how bad it was? There was one in the lobby, in the basement of the hotel I lived in, and I didn't go to that one. Dude, I just enjoyed going home. I'd had a long week. It's a brutal week. I mean, and, you know, and nothing against these people, but I have spent 16 hours a day with most of these people, and I like them, but I don't, I have nothing more to say.

What are we going to recap what happened? It's such an adrenaline rush, the whole show, and then it's, there's that, you know, not let down, but it's just a, you know you it's over the roller coaster rides over and also i'm not a big party guy i'm a i'm very awkward socially if i don't have someone there with me you know and i feel like i went the first couple weeks i was there yeah i just felt weird i didn't get anything on the show i mean that's another factor if you don't get anything on the show it's not a great week are you just trying to get stuff on then at that point on update um just trying to i mean yeah i would always well you rewrite stuff so you get joke i i would get jokes on it in sketches or stuff but yeah i mean you want your

own sketch there was the old lighting guy phil he passed away like maybe two or three years ago yeah he was doing the job up until so phil hans he used to light radio that's how old he was that's what they said about him so he was in the booth the director's booth and anytime you got a sketch on for blocking when you would rehearse it Thursday, Friday, you would go in the booth. And, like, if it had been three weeks without getting a sketch on, you know, you're walking in, you're trying to be low-key and try to just act like, yeah, nah, everything's cool, and you're trying to just put in all, and dude, Phil Himes at the top of his lungs. You still work here?

When was the last time we saw this guy? I went, wow, I didn't know you still. Oh, that's great. I thought I didn't know. I hadn't seen you in months. I thought something happened. Oh, man, let me sneak in. Keep my dignity, please.

Phil Himes. Phil Himes. Oh, my God. That guy made me laugh so much. So smart. Yeah. Oh. So.

It's amazing the history of some of the people that have been there for so long. It's an amazing. Stacey. Oh, Stacey Foster, who passed away like a few years ago. Yeah. Yeah. dude south africa he grew up in africa i didn't know that dude no mackay told me he goes no he used to have to like hunt lions when they would take over a village near him and they would have to go hunt lions

or elephants that were killing people in towns and little villages and then he told me a story about a monkey he had a pet monkey and it was on a leash or whatever and the village kids would come just out of reach of the monkey and mess with it and the monkey finally went nuts and they had to shoot the monkey. Dude, who has a story like that from their childhood? Stacey Foster, that's the only guy. Dude, there were so many cool people there that had so many great stories. And it was Lenny from the band. Money Pickett. Do you know who I really want on that I'm going to, I just, I need to just send a letter to call in, which is Speedy Rosenthal, the music technician. Do you, did you know Speedy? I know Speedy.

Just because Speedy's been there since the 70s and I don't know if Speedy's ever done an interview and was there for anybody used to smoke cigars with uh alick baldwood when he oh really if i'm not mistaken i just remember going to the show and you would see him this guy with the long hair and you're just um who is this guy and um so hopefully and i think he's buddies with paul rogers who was the lead singer of free and yeah i wouldn't be surprised he knows everybody i would see him when i'd go to the conan tapings he'd be there and stuff he was he um i mean yeah he was a cool dude Yes, there's definitely some really great personalities, I hope to get on. But Tishon, I really wanted you on.

So thank you for doing this. Thank you for wanting me on. This was fun. I'm glad we got to do this. Amazing career you've had and just to have your dreams come true and just amazing, everybody that you worked with and that have your material. I mean, the thing that you did the yoga class with Will Ferrell. I mean, the stuff is just like, I mean, it's on, it's going to be on people's minds forever in terms of like what you've contributed to that show and 50 years and stuff. That's cool.

Thanks, man. No, I like it. Yeah, that's cool. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news, and you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward-slash podcasts.

Have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next Tuesday. We're going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. We're going to be able to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be.

I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to my own.

We're going to be. I'm going to be. I'm going to be. Thank you.