Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - The Month That Changed Late-Night TV [LateNighter Roundtable Podcast]

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Following Stephen Colbert’s sign-off after more than a decade at CBS, Bill Carter, Mark Malkoff, and Jon Schneider look at what his final weeks revealed about the state of the 11:35 time period—and where late night goes from here. Plus: Byron Allen’s arrival at 11:35, Jimmy Kimmel’s changing position atop the late-night landscape, Saturday Night Live’s post-Season 51 outlook, and one YouTuber’s effort to reinvigorate the format.

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Late Niders Roundtable for May 2026. My name is John Schneider from Late Nider, and I'm so excited to be back with you this month to talk about all of the biggest stories that happened throughout May 26, one of the most consequential months in late night history, and we're going to cover all of it and all of the big stories here today with two amazing guests. So joining us is the editor-at-large for Late Nider. Bill Carter is here. Bill, how are you?

Very good. We're glad to be with you guys again. A lot to talk about. A lot to get into, Bill. So excited to get your thoughts on everything and joining us as well as the host of the inside late night with Mark Malkoff podcast. It is Mark Malkoff. It's good to see you. I just want to mention I have friends within the industry that at the late night shows that will not listen to my podcast,

but they will listen because Bill Carter, they'll listen to the roundtables because of you. These are people that are personal friends of mine. They're like, Mark, sorry. We don't have time. But if it's Bill, we are going to be there. Listen. So I'm just excited to go for the ride. I got to raise my fee, man.

Bill, you got to charge more. But yeah, excited to get into everything from this month, obviously a huge month for the late show with Stephen Colbert, where it was the final show. We saw the final three weeks of that show. So let's dive right in. Let's talk about what we saw in these final three weeks. There was a lot of big moments between Strike Force five reuniting, Letterman returning to the late show, the finale that we saw to end it all. So, Bill, how are you feeling looking back at what Colbert did to end his run? Well, I'm feeling like he made a statement that he should have been ending his run.

You know, he did an outstanding show. I mean, the show was really very much of Stephen Colbert, and so was all that finale and stuff. I have to say, I thought the Letterman show was one of the best shows I've seen in a long time. And it was Dave, just being Dave, and taking over the show. and man, it was so wildly entertaining, and I laughed really, really hard. I mean, that does not happen that much when I'm sitting home,

I'm watching a television show by myself. So I really felt like that. And I even said, you know, as Mark knows better than anybody, everybody says, you know, the Bet Midler show was the greatest finale, and of course it wasn't a finale and all of that. And this is like that.

I mean, people are going to say, oh, remember that Letterman was on a finale. He wasn't, but it was like, It felt like the high point of that, although I do think it was a good finale for Stephen. Mark, what were your overall thoughts in the last few weeks? You know, it was really exciting. I was talking to one of my friends, and it was even before, who works at the show, it was even before Letterman or John Stewart was announced.

And I said, I'm excited for these people. And he had to bite his lip. And he's like, how did you know? I'm like, it's just obvious, pretty much obvious that Dave's going to be. I really would have loved to see Dave be like the last guest or maybe the second to last show. But it was amazing. That should be their Emmy. That should be the tape that they submit for their Emmy.

And I hope that they do win an Emmy. That would be just amazing. But I thought the energy was great. The energy in that theater was like no other. It's been just, it was for a couple weeks. It was everybody was tuning in to see it. I thought that they did a good end of the show. You know, McCartney was a little, you know, people have been like, you know, he was just on Saturday Night Live.

It wasn't a huge, you know, they were trying to get the Pope. They were trying to get Beyonce. McCartney made sense because it's the Beatles and the Ed Sullivan Theater. And I thought he did a very, very good job. And he's McCartney, but it really, to me, didn't have like this final, like, it just didn't make complete sense. But it was a fun episode nonetheless. Yeah. It's interesting.

I think McCartney was. at least when he's talking and everything was better than him. He struggles to sing by himself now, let's face it. He's not, when he was on Saturday. He's not himself singing, but his personality came out more in that appearance. And I thought that was what was really appealing about it. And, of course, as you point out the history there, and really, the point you're making, Mark, is that was in that theater.

And that was so different. And the whole atmosphere of that theater is very special, really special for a late-night show. and that is one of the tragedies of the show going away. I don't know what's even going to happen to this theater now, and it's really an end of something big. I want to mention one thing about Colbert's late show. Bill, maybe now we can actually interview people from the late show. For some reason, I do not know why.

Anybody on that show, the people that work there have not been able to talk publicly. I have a lot of friends over there that I'm very excited to talk with. But there was even a journalist who mentioned that they got tickets and they flew all the way to New York to go to the light show with their mom just as a regular person. And as they got up to the door, they said, we can't let you in. And it's like, you could have told me before I got on an airplane. But just the fact that they were so secretive about this that they had those tents set up when people were pulling up. I don't think that many people really cared unless it was the Pope. Yeah, well, I don't think that really wasn't in.

I mean, I went right to the top. I went right to Baby Doll. And he said, okay, I'll set you up to go to the finale. Right. And then he'll let me know maybe three, four days ahead of time. No, there's no press can be. Stephen doesn't want any press. And really that is the reason we haven't been able.

It's when Stephen didn't want to ever allow it. And he told people on his staff. I mean, the EP was going to do your CNN. The EP, Chris Leck, wanted to do your CNN docu-steries. and he wasn't allowed. Yes, he blocked that. And it was, I mean, when I have talked to Stephen, he's very pleasant. He's a nice man.

He's one of the best bosses I've ever seen in action of very, very nice man. But he used sort of an iron fist on this. It was like, nobody talks, nobody talks. And they really took it to heart. Even people that I've known from other shows and have always talked to in the past, I won't name names. But they were like I really would like to talk to you about this, but no, I cannot do it.

There were interns that got in trouble for talking about their internship. And for whatever reason, Letterman, who was not a little bit, could be scared of the press at some point, would let the staff talk to papers. It wasn't an issue. I don't know what went down. But again, Colbert's the nicest guy. And I'm just excited to get these stories finally out. I want to know who they were trying to get booking the last couple of show who said no.

Like Johnny Carson's last week, they were still talking to Marla. and Brando, they were still talking to Marty Erlickman to try to get strays in. And I'm sure some of these stories do exist and I want to get them. There's got to be a good Pope story. I mean, he laid the groundwork so many times. And then they did a little bit because of it. Yeah, they referenced it. You know, they were trying.

They really weren't playing with that. So that is kind of fascinating. So I do want to set up for anybody who didn't see the finale who is listening to this podcast just to get our take on what they saw, exactly what we saw during the finale. So we did open up on a cold open with former late night host, past and present, including Ed Sullivan, insulting Stephen. It was sort of a bit that was put together. Then we saw Brian Cranston, Paul Rudd, and Tim Meadows interrupt the monologue for a different occasion. So you're wondering what the tent set up was for, maybe for some of them.

Tignitaro and Ryan Reynolds up here during meanwhile, his, I guess one of his most famous bits that he does do every week. Paul McCartney was the main guest. He talks about performing with the Beatles, and then he does a little bit of music. Then there's this pre-recorded sketch, which is sort of a rough, throughout the episode where this wormhole is appearing and we get to see people like meal de grass Tyson, John Stewart, Andy Cohen. A lot of people who have appeared on Colbert Show many times, I think Elijah Wood as well. And then the Strike Force 5 crew is there.

So we see Fallon, Kimmel, Seth, and Oliver all there to deal with the wormhole. It's going to envelop the show. And Stephen's going to go to the other side where he's going to see Elvis Costello, Louis Cato, and then John Baptiste, who we were waiting to see when he would show up. They're going to perform together. And then eventually we'll get the performance of hello, goodbye. with the entire staff and the family taking the stage. So that was the essentially what we did see throughout the entire finale.

So, Bill, now that we laid the groundwork for all of that, was there a moment in the finale that you think people will remember the most? I'm not going to say it's that memorable, to be honest. I didn't really feel like that. I thought the Strike Force five guys coming in and doing something together to me still has a very interesting resonance because that's changed so much from late in the past, these guys are close. But you always had a little bit of that.

John Stewart, I mean, Colbert sent John Stewart off, and John Stewart did send Colbert off and his other show. So they've always been close. And so I don't, I mean, I thought it was inventive, but it wasn't, to me, a piece that I'll remember in 10 years. I mean, if someone says to me, what happened? I might say, I know a lot of people came on, but it didn't resonate that much with me. Bill, I couldn't believe he was doing topical material from that day.

I thought for sure it would just be all this is our last show. And it was different. I mean, it went in a different direction than I thought. I would have loved to see in clips. I thought that Monday they did a really good job with the worst of, which that is so Colbert, putting his son's graduation, you know, above his own show to have that special. It was interesting, Mark, because a lot of it was not very good. The worst of, there's a reason.

There was a reason it was not on the air, which I thought was pretty cool to say, okay, here's stuff we didn't use and sort of at the end, I acknowledge. And there was good reason for a lot of it. So that was different. It was original. Sure. Very original. I will say to the very end, I love that we continue to get jokes and shots at CBS,

even, you know, talking about CBS news, not promoting the finale and things like that because they were so upset, you know, the network about the way that he. he's been treating the network for the last few months on the show. I love those storylines. For me, I didn't necessarily think that the finale was so memorable. I think I probably will remember the wormhole and perhaps the ending of turning off the power in the theater going into the snow globe. That was good.

But turning off the power in the theater with McCartney was good. It was like this is an end of something very significant. I do want to mention I thought Colbert was very classy with how we handled Biden. and Allen reaching out to him, congratulating him. I thought it was very, very, it was classic Colbert doing the really nice thing. We'll get to Byron in a moment, Mark. Okay, yes. I just want to say one more thing.

I want to throw this take at the two of you, which is something you both alluded to, so I wouldn't be surprised if you agree with this. But I was thinking to myself, just from my knowledge of late night through its history, if you start ranking the top 25 episodes in late night history, I'd be hard pressed to find ones from modern times. But I do believe that the Strike Force 5 reunion and Letterman's return to the late show are eligible for that list. I don't know if 25 is the right number or 50 bill. I know you're such a historian when it comes to this.

But I was watching these episodes saying I haven't been this excited about watching just one late night episode in years. And there was something it invigorated me. Yes. And that's kind of interesting, John, because, I mean, I thought the Strike Force 5 was going to be what it was. But you never know with Dave now. You don't know. Is Dave going to come to play? Is he going to really come to play?

Danger. There was danger. That's what is the best. Exactly. So unpredictable. What's he going to do? And he did, you know, let's go into the audience and let's grab the furniture and let's go to the room. And that was like this.

And you know what really struck me as it nobody's doing this anymore. They don't do this kind of. Nobody's doing this anymore. They don't leave the studio very much. They don't have that kind of an antic. sort of approached to certain things. And I missed it. I really did.

I was like, wow, I love this kind of stuff. When it's clever and funny like that, it just gives the show much more dimension and something that you don't see in the rest of television. And that's why I really appreciated that show. Mark, in a way, Letterman's legacy, I think, rose through the end of the late show with Colbert. Because so many people were nostalgic for Letterman's time

and thinking back a ball. I think so. I mean, there were people that were friends with Dave that told me they really thought that he would pull a Johnny Carson in 2015 when he said this goodbye. This is our last show that we would never see this guy again. But I love that we keep seeing him. And I definitely think it adds to his legacy. And to have somebody who's been, you know, off the air for 11 years be able to go on and be as funny as funny as he was for decades. I love that he is still around and he is not let anything slip. He's as funny. he ever was. Yeah, he's still extremely sharp. And, and he, and I think having written about him, I know this is true, he needs that. I mean, the guy, the guy needs to perform. You know, he does have that thing in him that is, it's important to him. You know, he said, and I quoted him, he's like, I'm only happy one hour a day. And that was true. He was on with busy Phillips and saying that I love being on TV. I mean, that was something that he asked. certain performers. And he did mention he thought Carson not going back and doing anything really

did affect him and not for the good. Yeah, and I think he's right. I mean, I really think he's right. Johnny still had plenty to do. He was a really funny guy, you know. Yeah. Yeah, it reminds me of that SNL sketch back in 96 of Phil Donahue and Johnny Carson, the retirement years with Dana and Daryl and just, you know, them talking exactly doing their late night personas, but going to play golf and you just watch it. It's sad, but then when you see somebody come home and there's still just as sharp and just as good, it feels better. It's like, okay, you know, Michael Jordan hasn't played basketball in a long time,

but suddenly he's on the court hitting three-pointers, you know? That's sort of what was like. Yeah. And I'll also say for Strike Force 5, for me, I loved listening to the podcast a few years ago during the writer's strike. It was amazing. There is nothing like seeing them together in person on the couch. I think it was kind of, it reminded me a little bit of the view where you get really great chemistry sometimes between the hosts.

But I do feel like them sitting there and just, they are so witty each and every one of them in their own ways that I almost felt that there was this healthy competition between all five of them for who could be funniest that night. And it was amazing to watch. And Jimmy Kimmel said to me when I saw them, they loved, first of all, they loved it. They loved the whole thing. They loved it. and they really loved the fact that there was an audience there. And he said, you know, we should do this in front of an audience. And I thought, yeah, that really brings up the whole electricity

and the whole performance vibe. Like, yeah, we're performing in front of an audience. I mean, you can't really do it feasibly since they're all in different places. But at some juncture, having them together doing it in front of an audience would be a good move. Yeah, and Seth and John Oliver definitely do tour together or do their once a month. one thing, but it's just the five of them. I mean, it was incredible stuff. So definitely will look fondly at a lot of the things that I saw throughout May from Colbert's show. We talked about Byron Allen very briefly, where he has now taken over the time slot at 1135. So when he took over

the 1235 slot, people didn't really pay attention. But now because he's in this prime late night spot. It feels special in a very weird way. So I was like, all right, I'll give this a shot. I'll watch comics unleashed. I'll see what we got going. And it's just a completely different thing. And I think that's probably a lot of people's experience over the last couple of weeks. I've been like, what is this show? Why is it here? What's happening? But clearly it's making an impact so how have you felt about now that we're in this position in Byron Allen has the time? You know what, John, I'm not surprised that people had that. First of all, they don't know what comics are. They don't know the thing's been on for 25 years. They don't know that. It's so under the radar to them. But you're putting him in the spot that was just vacated by a really significant late night star and frankly was created by a giant late night star. And now here's a guy in that spot. Well, this must be something interesting and different and important because look where he is. He's in this spot.

He's in this chair. And, of course, he's not. I mean, it's not the show. It's not the same thing. It's not even the same format. Everything about it is different. And, you know, it plays like a placeholder kind of show instead of a new show. It doesn't have that spark of, oh, now we're going to watch a new guy trying to do something in late night.

And frankly, the other thing is that I find interesting is that Byron. is not a player. You know what I mean? Like, it's not Byron's show. It's a show that he's occupying a chair, but he doesn't really participate. It's so different from what we have come to expect. And I think it'll be really challenging

for this thing to get any kind of traction, in my opinion, because it doesn't matter who the comics are. Like, the guest booking doesn't really. He doesn't get like, if John Mullaney's not going to do it. You know what I mean? Like he's not going to have suddenly somebody like that on the air.

And a lot of the people that I, well, the first night I saw it, I didn't recognize any of the comics at all. Not that I know a lot of young comics. They're really young comics. They're just veteran comics who've been around. And, you know, and then the second half of the show is a show that was taped way out in the future, way out of the past, I mean. And, you know, there have comics there that are deceased.

who are still performing on these shows. And so that also alters the feel about it. You can say that is the opposite of what the other guys are doing and maybe that's good because it's completely untopical. Absolutely cannot have topical comedy. It's just guys telling one-liners, which maybe some people find really entertaining. I don't particularly think that appeals to me

or to the regular late-night audience. That's what's going to be the challenge. I'm completely with you, Mark, how do you feel about all this? I do want to say anything that is new the public is going to turn against. They turned against Conan for the first couple of years. Colbert, his first year, people were saying this was a big mistake. Rumors that they were going to flip Cordon show with Colbert show. I do think that these things do take a while to build up an audience.

I mean, there were all these like click-bake headlines saying about how much, like, Byron Allen, the day after the Colbert finale, the difference. and viewership, of course there's going to be. I mean, it was the finale, but I don't know. I mean, I think it's great that they're giving comics a showcase. The evergreen stuff, again, can run forever, but

it is definitely an uphill battle, I think, in terms of people and definitely critics that are skeptical. But I think it's great what Byron's doing in terms of, he really, really respects the medium. He respects Johnny Carson. And as a businessman,

And he almost always wins. So for profitability, I would guess that he's going to be able to figure it out. Well, he's got a very – his business plan is really interesting because, I mean, he didn't really pay very much. 500 – to be on the show is 500, flat, no residuals. Oh, you mean to CBS? Yes. Yes, but that's a factor, too. He plays a flat fee, right?

He doesn't use union people. Not that I know of. Yeah. So he's condensed his costs down so much. Supposedly, according to CBS now, the way they put it, he paid $15 million for this because they said it was $40 million and now they're saving $55 million. Right. So he paid $15 million for a pretty attractive time period. I mean, like pretty attractive time period. He doesn't have to do that much revenue for him to cover his costs there. I mean, that seems like a reasonable thing. And he's only doing half an hour. He has a half an hour banked against that. From what I've seen, he has very respectable advertisers in there. I mean, you know, he's got cars and very respectable advertisers. Interestingly, they're exactly the same.

What I saw, they're exactly the same answer in the first half and the second half. So they get two shots. But it's all business plays. It's conceived that way as a business plan, where the content of the show seems to be less important. to me, looks less important to me than the business plan. You know, like, I'm not going to pay anybody that much to come on the show. We have this flat fee. You get no residuals. And this is how it works. And don't tell any topical jokes. And, you know, if I'm a comic, and Mark, you know,

this better than anybody, they have a set. They perform a set in late night, generally speaking, right? So they're going to do five minutes or whatever. And a comic builds his step. You know, he has rhythm. Here it's very bite, bite, bite, bite, with a premise that just comes. up like Byron says, so I understand that you're keeping bees in your yard, you know, something that sounds completely out of nowhere, and the person has a joke set up for that. And that's not that different from the interview that late night hosts would do, although usually it would be some anecdote they're going to tell, right, rather than a one-liner. But it's not, it doesn't, to me, showcase the comic that well, because he's on the spot. Okay, here you go. Here's

or two jokes, let's see what you can do. I think that's challenging. But again, I'm coming from a point of view where everybody who's done this before has brought something that I find that it worked. Originally, and interesting you mentioned that Corden was being talked to replay. He was really new. They were talking about moving him already to 1130. Because, why?

Because he suddenly came up with some things we hadn't seen before. Signature bits that were blowing up. signature bits that were blowing up exactly so that to me is what's different about this there's no signature to the show you know what I mean? They just wrapped they just I think they did over a hundred new shows that they just wrapped in Culver City

and they were doing like four or five a day and it was unbelievable how efficient they were able to do it. The audience, audience stays there the whole time Oh wow wow Yeah that's interesting Bill how would you assess how

Byron Allen would define success for the show? It made money. That's it. I think. That's it. Because Byron, I think Byron has every right to say,

hey, this is kind of the pinnacle of my career, like I've moved to the time period. But Byron doesn't perform on the show. He really doesn't. I mean, so that's kind of an interesting thing. I mean,

so he's shifted his, I think he's shifted, his focus. Clearly, he made up his mind at some point, okay, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Here's what my goals are. And, you know, he just bought a house in Aspen for $93 million. So I saw that online somewhere today. So, you know, who can argue with his success? That's pretty impressive. He owns the weather channel. He wants to buy stars. He tried to buy Paramount, apparently. He tried to buy one of the football teams or a baseball. I forget what it was. Or he thought about it.

Yes. And that makes me wonder, because I don't know where his capital comes from. I don't, he's very under the radar about all that kind of stuff. I just find that fascinating because if his definition of success is profit and CBS's is also profit, and they don't have to worry because he's going to take care of them. But then if he backs out because he's no longer profitable, then what does the network do? And I think that those are questions that. Yeah, go ahead.

The affiliates, I still don't really understand how that's working. I don't get it. I don't get that. I don't get that. But I think Byron's kept the cost down so tight that he can do sort of a minimal number because I think he's very good about pitching the advertisers, giving them tons of veils and what they need and all of that. You know, I interviewed him at the advertiser conference, and we talked a lot about that. He has long time relationships because he had this show a long time with these. And he's so he kind of has a way to figure out how to get all these people in. And if you break down the cost of what $15 million is against how many shows he's going to do, each show per show is not that much money. So he can probably be profitable without doing a number. I happen to see the numbers from last night, right? Because last night is the first time that there's been a non-Colbert week with everybody back and no NBA

and that lead in and all that kind of stuff. And what you could expect and what I expected is taking place, which was that Kimmel got a terrific lumber and really gained. And Byron's number is minimal, but not non-existence. So that probably is fine. But as Marks put his finger on it, what does it mean for an affiliate? But they want to have a good, they don't want to have a show that just gets by. for enough to pay the guy's nut on what he paid for the thing.

An infomercial does that. So for their point of view, over the long term, and when I wrote about this, I didn't see anybody write about it, but now I think it's something people should look at. CBS's late local news and all its affiliates, what is going to happen to them from people who actually were like,

Colbert fans and tuned into the local news because that was going to lead into Colbert. That could be a pretty big negative. And CBS has a lot of stations. This is one year, correct? Yes. It's one year agreement. Yes.

Yes, one year agreement, yes. But it seems to me that once they've sold the time period and they're making a profit now is what they're saying as opposed to a loss, right? It's hard to imagine that the bean counters at a network will say, hey, let's go back to that thing we thought we were going to money. I don't think so. Well, let's check back in in a few months and see how we're doing with all of this. It'd be very interesting, John. We really should. Yeah, we should. All right. Let's talk about Jimmy Kimmel. You mentioned him. You got to speak to him, Bill, at the ABC upfront. So were there any interesting insights that you learned from your conversation with Kimmel? Well, it wasn't that long after the second kickup from Mr. Grace at the FCC. And what was interesting was that ABC did not in any way,

waiver this time. But he was open about the fact that he feels like any moment something could flare up and he doesn't know for sure that the network will always stand by him. Because he said something interesting and he was in this New York magazine profile of him too. You know, he said, I didn't really make a mistake. You know, I could defend myself in these things. But he said, you know, it isn't that out of line to think some night I'm going to say something, maybe that isn't defensible, no. And what happens then? You know, like, and both he and his wife, Molly, who's the head writer, were talking about how they have it in their heads. Like they're walking out little on eggshells when they do the shunuch, because of

the scrutiny. Not that Kimmel himself will ever back down because I'm telling you that guy is not going to ever back down. It's just not going to happen. And he basically said he told ABC, you know, I don't mind notes from you, but I'm not, you just don't tell me I have to be, you know, neutral. I'm not going to be able to do that. And, and I think that, he's the interesting, he's a very interesting guy to be in this position because I know he never thought he would be, but he really does stand on principle. And I think he's doing a great job. I really do. I really do. I think he's doing a great job. His contract is next year, right?

At the end of next year, that's when his contract is up. And he said publicly there hasn't been any negotiations with the network. They haven't talked. But his contract is through next year. So we'll see him at least for then unless something happens. But what I think is true is that, and I could see it last night, he's going to really do well. I think he's going to dominate pretty much. And if he does, what is ABC going to do?

Well, we don't want this guy anymore. I think he's stuck himself now. He may want to back out, but I think he's pretty well in there for a longer term. I just want to say my theory, I could be completely off Bill and John, but I think it is very possible if these shows are losing money that both Fallon and Kimmel, as part of them still having to shows have to work double duty. I mean, Kimmel's doing millionaire. Fallon is coming back doing another show for NBC.

I can't imagine with them having kids that this is what made me necessarily. Maybe they do want to be working and doing this. But I could see that if you want this show to continue, since we're losing money, we need you to do other things. I could be off on that. Bill, what do you think?

No, I think it's definitely a factor. Although I feel like if Jimmy didn't want to do a millionaire, I think he'd punt on it now. I do. I mean, he's really good at it. All I'm saying is Letterman,

there was one point where Letterman and Craig Ferguson were said, that the producers and the host had to take one third pay cut. And that was not disclosed. That never made the newspapers or anything. So I'm just saying, I don't know behind the same. I don't know what the same.

Letterman was making at that point. 31.5 million at one point, I believe. And he only showed me's come close to that since. Yeah. Well, you know, there was a time, and it's less important now, but there was a time when people would look at these late-night hosts as the faces of the network.

So putting them on, you know, hosting game shows on the network is sort of goes hand in hand with being a late night host. To me, it doesn't feel like a new thing. It sort of feels traditional in that sense, which is, you know, I guess you can argue whether Colbert was the face of CBS. I guess, you know, you'd say for the last 10 years, I think it's probably Jeff Proops now if they had to pick someone on TV that is the face of CBS at this point. John, John, I would say this all the time. Nobody else was on the air as much. Forget their side gigs. There were at least four hours a week.

I mean... There was him and Gail King. The news anchor would be on. But the news anchor is only a half hour show. So really not as much time as the late night host was on the air. And wasn't an entertainer. So they're really... Yes, that's the key point.

That's the point. But Mark said something really. These guys, Jimmy has obviously talked about stepping away. what does he want to do with it? Does he want to put in the time that it takes over the long term? He happens to have particularly young kids for a guy his age now in his second family. And he's very close to them. They have a really tight family. How much does he want to do this? I mean, I do think he feels also the pressure that he has, I don't know how many of his family members are still working on the show.

And of course, all the people on the staff, it brings up a really interesting. thing and he mentioned it to me that day. He said, you know, when you shut down a show like Colbert, you have all these people that are let loose. And he said, you know, if you're a joke writer, if you're a comedy writer for a late night show, that's a particular talent. What do you do with that talent when there's not any more shows to do that on? They're not performed. They're not stand-ups. A lot of them are, many of them are not stand-ups. They're writers. That's what they do. They write gags. And there isn't like a Bob Hope going around the country with four joke writers. lines all day. That doesn't exist anymore. So that's a really interesting thing. It's a craft that,

you know, people who have done it really well, in their 30s or 40s, who knows what happens to them? It's Colbert goes away. Lauren always said that that's your job for life. Well, Bill, I know that they're on opposite coasts, but was there any indication that Kimmel's team is looking to add some staff from Colbert's team? Not that he, he, he, he, didn't mention that, no. Okay. There's some really talented people. I keep 20 credited writers for, they didn't have a lot of comedy in my opinion. I mean, they had a cold open. They did his monologue. But for 20 people to get a writing credit, when Carson, Johnny Carson at most had, I think, eight. I think on the 1230 show, Letterman had maybe 12. But I'm glad for people's jobs. I'm glad

that they can get those jobs. But I agree with you, Mark. I mean, I saw it was 20 writers. I was really sort of stunned. I mean, because as you said, he didn't do a second. Some nights he didn't even do a second comedy segment at all. And the ones he did were not that, I mean, later, I mean, meanwhile, was kind of one, but it wasn't, I don't know, it wasn't like a real big comedy, broad comedy bit. He didn't seem to do that much. So that sort of surprises me that he had that many writers.

I don't know why you need that many writers anymore. You mentioned something that I think is very compelling, which is that he doesn't want to be looking over his shoulder when he's doing his job. I think nobody does really. But when it comes to him at this time of his life, I think he wants to have fun with the show. And I'm sure that the last year at the show, everything that's happening with Colbert or happened with Colbert, it was challenging for them. So I do wonder with all of the extra attention that's going to be headed towards him in this upcoming television season, if he just maybe lets loose and just, says, you know what, I'm just going to do my thing. And if I get attacked for it, either internally or externally, then that's fine. I can just wipe my hands with the whole

thing and say goodbye after this year. But if he has the support, I do think he'll stick around. I think it's an interesting thing because I do think, and I really felt like it, and for a lot of reasons, I know he feels like this. He's going to kick ass this next year. And I think that's going to really change some equations there. Because if he's doing 50, percent better than he used to do because Colbert's off the air and he's dominating the Tonight Show, which has never happened before. I mean, it's not done, Tonight Show is not done what has been finishing third. But if he's doubling the Tonight Show or something like that, what does NBC do? I mean, I think he's going to be real. So the fact that he's doing that well, will I think keep the

energy going in. You're not going to want to say, oh, I've reached the top now. I'm going to immediately quit. So I was over there. a month ago to say hi to some people I know and some friends in Kimmel and they're the best green room in the end out of all the industry. I'm sure you've been there before. It is such a family atmosphere. I mean, I, it is a place that I think a lot and anybody that's in the entertainment industry, you would want to work at a place like this. Absolutely. And I can see why people want to be there. And I, yeah, I hope it's it continues. Let's jump over to Saturday Night Live, which just wrapped up. It's 51st season. We had the,

finale with Paul McCartney and Will Ferrell. And it was an exciting season for the show following up to the 50th anniversary where there were no expectations, unlike the year prior. So I would love to know from both of you, how you're feeling about what we saw overall in season 51 now that we're a few weeks out from it. Mark, how are you feeling right now? How do I feel about the Ashley's show, Ashley Padilla's show? Unbelievable, a featured cast member for two years is the face of a show. I mean, I've never seen anything like it. It's the most impressive thing. She is so solid.

It's been fun to see. I mean, I thought she was great the first season, but to really give her the ball and see where she's taking it. I like this season. I thought that the writing, I mean,

you're always going to have some hits and some misses, but I thought overall, I liked a lot of the new people. I liked this season. I thought it was great. All these people had these theories, that Lauren was going to be the last show, Lauren was going to say goodbye because it was McCartney and Farrell. It was this big,

like, I mean, stacking up a show, talk about a lineup. But I don't think he's going anywhere. I hope he's not going anywhere. But I liked the season. I thought it was, I thought it was fantastic. I really like it. I think what was most surprising to me is that you had that massive year before this, you would expect a significant fall off in some fashion, energy or creativity or or whatever. And it didn't really, rating, it didn't really fall off.

I mean, it had its moments when it was better than others. It always, that's always the case. But it was never, I didn't think it was ever terrible this year. Like, I mean,

it was a, you know, it basically had something good every week. And I think Mark's right. The new cast members were generally good. I think they had, you know, maybe a little bit too much Trump openings in the cold open,

whatever you could argue about that. But, Overall, you can't say there was a massive fallout, and that's really to their credit. They did not shoot their Watt and 50th anniversary, and all of a sudden they had no ideas and it didn't work out. And Ashley coming into her own so quickly certainly helps a lot because she's getting buzzed and talked about and all of that. But I do think there's no reason for Lauren to step away.

I still do not understand. One of my just constructive criticisms with this season is they put. Put the sketches that were cut at dress rehearsal and so many times they're as funny if not funnier than the stuff that's getting on. And I get from a timing standpoint, you have your stop watch. But it's baffling. That Farrell sketch with the kids was so funny. And the drama class, which people think aired, it was like they thought it was recurring with something that was cut with the Will Ferrell episode, which was really fun seeing Molly Shannon. I thought that was great.

But it does seem that the hardcore fans are mystified by some of the Will Ferrell episode. of the things that were cut on air that are better than some of the stuff that makes it. Yeah, it's also the process of the show, Bill, where I've been, you know, just the thing I love the most about the show is how brutal it can be at times. I want everyone to do great on the show, but I love that we get to this point where at the end of the week, we have to make some really hard cuts of what's going to get on air or not. And if all of that doesn't matter, it is a little bit less interesting for me. I'm always going to love Saturday Night. I love getting to cover the show every single week. But I do find once, you know,

dress rehearsal sketches become in the canon of the show. And there was some continuity that was developed from that cut dress rehearsal sketch back in 2019 that was posted with the cast list that then made its way onto the show in this finale. And the expectation was, well, a lot of people have watched it online. So, of course, they're going to get why Mikey Day is no longer a student. He's now a teacher's assistant. And I was watching this just baffled and being like, wow, there's millions of people who watch the show who probably never even knew that this sketch landed online.

The vast majority. The vast majority. So to me, for them, like, I've talked about this on the Saturday Night Network that, you know, they probably hear me saying this. And they're like, okay, you're being silly. Of course, we have to, you know, we're in the 2020s now. We have to, you know, go into modern times. But I just still think that there is something really incredible about the format that I just hope they don't lose the magic of the show where it's just every single sketch is going to end up being available. Because at that point, it's not the.

best material that's going to get on and win at the end of the day. And that's part of the reason why Ashley, to me, is so great because she is the best of what she's doing. And she will get her stuff on every single week because she is that damn good. Yeah. I think it's interesting, though, because the choices sometimes are, as Mark said, really baffling, like you, as a, as a viewer, but who knows what really went into the process of picking them. I mean, it's obviously they should pick the best ones. But that's very personal. what's the best one. You know, I saw a couple of sketches this year. I thought were really funny. And they were like the end of the show. They're like barely on the air. And I was like, why did this get stuck at the end when there's fewer viewers and all that timing or whatever? They, you know, that's, who knows? They did a really good job with the booking music and booking the host. I mean, I know there was some criticism. I do get that that maybe it was a little bit male dominated with the host and for certain. Parts of the season, which I agree.

But I thought that the choices that they did the host, and some of them were really surprising, really, really good. I thought that they were solid choices. Yeah. Yeah, I think that they did an incredible job booking, and you would think that a lot of the big names would want to be there during the 50th season, but I felt that we got some of the absolute biggest stars in the world to show up for season 51, and it's a testament to Lauren's power,

the show's continued relevance in the cultural zeitgeist, and I think that the show is still as popular as it ever was, even if the linear ratings don't suggest that. It's just a different metric that we follow now. I got to tell you, my view is

the show is extraordinarily popular, given the way the audience choices have dispersed. It's extraordinary. It gets way more buzz than it ever did before, because there's so much chatter about social media has so influenced it. People pay more attention. It seems like they pay more attention to it

all the time. You see it commented on news the next day. It's really still very deep in the culture. It's relevant. Whatever the ratings are. I really want to see Jimmy Fallon come back to host and have it be like the Elvis comeback special. The guy is so talented at these characters. And I think people forget because he's not, he hasn't done them for so long. When he is in 8-H and in the makeup and has wigs on. Oh, my goodness, his talent. Does he have it? One of the greatest monologue performers, I'll say ever as a three-time SNL host every single time he shows out. So that's certainly the case. Mark, I want to ask you, though, anything you would like to see in season 52, we did get a lot of new cast members that came in for 51. We lost Bowen at Christmas. Was there anything that you

were thinking about when it comes to maybe something that would be different with the cast next year? I like a smaller cast. At the same time, I think Tommy Brennan has some, even though he didn't get as much time, him and Cam, I, you know, it's really hard. Tracy Morgan, the first season, getting almost nothing on very, very little. I think it takes a season or two, sometimes even more for people to find their voice on that show. So what happened with Jane. Yeah, exactly. Jane now is like a rock star over there.

And it just takes a little time. So I hope everyone has a little bit of grace to find. their voice. I mean, if I had to guess people that might choose to move on, I mean, Chloe maybe, Feynman, maybe Mikey Day has been there so long, but oh my goodness, talk about somebody so valuable. Same with Che and Jost. I mean, Jost has been there since, what, 2006, 2005. But if they are, I mean, that that update, whoever has to follow them, I don't envy them. There's an obvious thing. There's a pretty obvious thing, though. They have to have a black woman on the show. No doubt.

Yes. Okay. That's a great Bill. Yes. That's a glaring absence. And I really, I got to think that's front of mind for Lauren. He's got it. It's a gap he has to fill. But I think it's very interesting that you had you know,

what's his name? Who does Tucker McCarleson? Oh, Jeremy Colhan. He so killed at that. He's so killed at that. that I was like he was, you got to notice him more doing other stuff. I mean, that just, that just broke through so big.

And that's all sometimes it takes is that you just find that one. And then you get more to do. You know, I wouldn't have necessarily thought he was guaranteed a second seat. But I get, I think he is now. I think he's, you know, he really broke through. But it's rare that you see a season where you like, boy, that person's usually. You don't see, I don't see that at all, really. I wanted to ask, are there any black women writers that you think that they, Lauren, might promote?

Because they promoted so many people that are writers. Sadecas was hired as a writer, for example, Mikey Day, Tina, Faye, obviously. Well, they hired a couple prior to 51 in Joe Sunday and Rachel Pagrom, and neither were brought onto the cast. I believe they were auditioners. A lot of people who auditioned for the show end up being writers. So they certainly have that ability. We've seen it happen over the last few years with, you know, Bo Nyang, Mikey Day.

they were writers before they joined the cast. So there is a possibility that this could happen. I think it is less likely to happen, given that Lorne had that opportunity after Bowen left to choose one of them and put them into the cast. My expectation is that, you know, we're going to get a lot of people who auditioned in the last few years and perhaps some new folks as well to come in and we'll hear, you know,

closer to September that they're going to hire at least one black woman for the cast. They haven't really had a season recently where they hired next to nobody in the cast, right? They always hired. The last time that they have not hired a new cast member was in season 33. So going back over 18 years back to 2007. John, I have a question for you real quick. Has there ever been in the history of SNL, to your knowledge, two featured players that did the warm up before the show,

which they currently have. Keenan would always sing the same song for over a decade for the warm up, and they would have the background singers, the three ladies. And now it's Tommy and Veronica, right? Yeah, I mean, I would think that the only situations we would have had that would be when they completely shook up the cast. So if you, you know, I don't know who was doing the warm up in. Brewer was doing warm up when he was hired. But traditionally before that, it was all update people.

It was Dennis Miller. It was Kevin Nealyn. Sure. But I didn't know from the history of the show if they're ever. I mean, Fallon did the warm up for a while. I just didn't know if there were other people. I thought that was really a unique choice to have featured. We haven't gotten a complete throwout the entire cast.

bring in a new cast since season 11. So I would assume that since the musical warm-ups we've had, there's always been some sort of veteran presence there. But it is very cool. I think that is a plus for Tommy and Veronica. I think, you know, I hope that it's not the only thing they're looking at when it comes to Tommy. But, you know, certainly there's question marks for every single rookie, and they want to make sure that they're going to be.

You mentioned Tommy tries both of you. And if you'd ask me who's the most likely not back, I would have said him. I think that's consensus, Belmont. Yeah, but I think he fits a role that they kind of need. Which is this young, good-looking guy that they can use in that mode. You know what I mean? Like, they tend to have a guy like that. Look, I don't think they need that role.

I do think that it's really tough for a stand-up to come in. There's no growth for them on the show. We saw it happen with Michael Longfellow where they start to build up their sketch presence a little bit. And then everyone starts saying, all right, well, it would be so great if we got them as a weekend update. anchor, but the spots are never available, so they're sort of held back, and then they end up departing for whatever reason. So, yeah, I think the thing is, is that I'm not against Tommy sticking around. I saw it with Jane. I was very stunned that Jane stuck around for a second year. I was very vocal about that, and then she proved me wrong. I'm happy to be proven wrong

with Tommy, but I do think Cam is maybe perhaps more interesting if you're going to pick one of the new two standups to stick around, because I think he showed more. They didn't really give him a lot to do, but when he did, he was memorable. And I think that he's very, very likable. I do want to mention for people that are listening in the warm-up, we do have an actual cast member that does warm up the audience, which is Marcelo Hernandez, who I've seen him do his warm-up, which is very, very funny. But for the music, part of the two featured players, I thought was very unique. Absolutely. So we did have on a rundown talking about Conan hosting the 2027 Oscars. Let's table that. We'll talk about that in another show as, you know, we can talk about that whenever.

I want to jump over to Ben Glebe's YouTube Late Night Show. So I'd like to talk about this for a few minutes because if you're not aware, so Ben Glebe has, you know, according to a lot of the trades, hosted the first official YouTube late night show. So when I was looking into this, I was so fascinated because for me, I've been advocating that this is the future of late night. We need someone to really step up on YouTube who has a following, to have a late night show there. And, you know, that's where everybody is. So at least like set up your home there. Then I found out after that he's not really the official first YouTube late night show. He is somebody who has started a late night show on YouTube, has gotten some good press about it. And I watched

the premiere last week. And it was very interesting. He basically set up his own studio in his home. You can watch this whole thing where he does, he has Kevin Smith on as his guest. He has people at his home watching the show. And then we get to watch about 45 minutes of the after party of him mingling with all of his guests afterwards. And I was enthralled with the whole thing, Bill because I've never seen anything like it. But I've been told that I'm a glass half whole person, whereas some people are a little bit more confused about what they watched here. I know you spoke to Ben Glebe, so I want to give you the floor.

Yes. Well, I did. And I'll be honest, I didn't know Ben Glebe. I mean, it was very funny to talk to him and then see him on the, I guess, the first or second night of Comics Unleashed. He was on the old show as one of the comics, right? And he wasn't very funny, but that's not a great format to be, to be breakout funny. But anyway, so, I mean, you know, I was talking to him and I was, you know, just fascinated by what he's trying to do.

I thought it was very interesting that he's going to use his house this way, have a very small live audience, but have a Zoom audience of people who can watch it any place all over the world if they could sign in or whatever. two people in a made up his band basically the desk was part of the bar that was built into the room so he used the space in a very sort of creative way and he talked about

he wanted to do he was his dream to be a late night host and he wanted to you know Dave is his idol like so many of these guys and he wanted to do things you know man in the street things and hidden camera thing all that kind of stuff and all of that etc but I mean

what really struck me is yeah, but if you want to do a show like this, you need a letterman or a Conan or somebody off YouTube now who fits that profile, which is this young, dynamic, unpredictable voice that people don't know that's fresh and doing something really original in this crazy space. Right? It's a crazy space to do it in. And it seems like Ben is a traditional stand-up for 25 years. He's been a stand-up probably. and he doesn't seem to bring that to the show. You know, he didn't bring this energy that is wild and unusual and creative. And it did strengthen to me my own impression, which is that even though it's on YouTube, YouTube had nothing to do with putting the show together, nothing at all to do with it. It's just he put it together and he's putting it on YouTube. He got investors.

He's doing a little bit of a Byron thing with this. he put he got money he's you know he got sweetheart investors and you know they will make money if the show eventually makes money etc they're charging audience members which i thought was very unique people pay if you pay more money you can hang out after the show and that's what john that's right talking about if you hang out then you go back and you know go to his kitchen and have a drink or a joint that's that was we're both bill that's part of the thing and all of that struck me talking to him i was like okay, this is offbeat and interesting. And it was particularly funny when he talks about

or we'll go into the ashram. Like that's an ashram in his backyard. I was like, oh, well, this is different. All right. But it felt like his content was conventional, I guess, is my point. Yeah, it kind of feels like when one of your friends suggests a new type of cuisine to go out, and you're like, okay, I like food.

I'll try it. And I feel like that's what it was with the show. I was like, all right, yeah, like, I kind of like late night, and I'm watching it. And I think the thing is, is that you're right, Bill. He's not this kind of just enthralling character. But he has this, why not me story to him, which I think he talked about a little bit at the start of his show. So I can't help but be supportive in that if he really wants this and he has investors, and I think some of his investors, by the way, are other comics.

I think that in this case, it's worth a shot. Oh, I don't know how long it lasts. I encourage it. I think it's that people need to do this. If late night's going to continue in some way, yes, the form needs to be reinvented in an economic way. This is what he's doing. It is extremely hard to develop a show's voice once a week. Is that what is he doing once a week?

John, is that? Yeah, that's my understanding. I hope he succeeds wildly. Yeah. I don't want to misquote, but I believe he was going to aim for like 42 weeks or something like that to take this whole thing up. 42. Yeah. Yes.

Which is a lot of weeks, a lot of shows. It's a lot of shows. It's a lot of shows. You're totally right. Once a week is probably tough for him. Look, it may have been a little bit awkward, a little bit different. I'm supportive. And I do believe that this is the future of late night.

I'm putting my stamp on it. It may not be Ben Glebe's show, but I guarantee you there's a lot of people on YouTube or working at YouTube. who did keep an eye on what's happening here and say, well, maybe this is the start of something. So I think we should be watching it too. Sean and Bill, do we have, other than Stuart Bailey from The Daily Show who's a producer, do we have anybody else from late night experience that is writing for the show or behind the scenes? Do you have any knowledge? I don't.

I asked him, how many writers do you have? And he said, well, we really don't have any writers to say. you know like the producer type and I think that again has to do with pay maybe you know are they in the writers they're in the writers guild if they have you know if they're designated

I don't know because obviously everything is being done in a kind of seat of the pants approach but you know I sort of said you're going to do a monologue every time you probably need to have it written and he said well I'm mostly writing myself and people will help me almost write them so they're having some people there that are involved, but it's very minimal.

And I don't know if they are veteran writers or not. But the only one he mentioned was Stuart Bailey, who's a good name. Yeah, I mean, Emmy winner, Daily Show. Come on, John Stewart. That's a legit producer, for sure. Yeah. Yeah, you go, Bengley, we got your back. I wish him well.

I hope he succeeds wildly. I wish him well. Absolutely. Well, this is about a great discussion. Bill, I know you wanted to mention your experience at the Paley Center. Yeah, so the Paley Center did an interesting idea. Center in New York, Museum of Broadcasting, and they decided to have a little session on finale's, late-night finales. And they had a pretty good crowd come for it, and they showed clips,

which was great because they were hilarious. Many of them were very, very funny. And, you know, they started with the Bet and Midler clip, of course, and everybody thought it was the finale. And, you know, people, no, really not the finale. We had to talk about that. And but then they showed some ones, I mean, people probably hadn't seen, I guess. You know, they showed, well, where Colbert embarrassed the Stewart by, you know, showering him with praise. And he had set up behind that that wouldn't happen. Stewart insisted it not happen.

And Colbert went to Stewart's wife and said, here's what I'm going to do. And she, Tracy, and she listened to the whole thing. And she said, he is going to hate this like he's hated nothing else in his life, but you have to do it. And that was really great. And then they showed, obviously, Colbert's crazy finale when they had like a hundred people singing, which was tremendous. One I really didn't remember was Conan's, I guess, departure from TBS because the tradition of the farewell song was pretty well staffed. But then Martin Short came on with an original song that he had written for Conan, right?

And he sings a song, and it's kind of sweet, but kind of sappy. You know, we're going to miss you. You're the greatest, whatever. and Conan is there listening and he says oh yeah that's great Martin that would be really great if you didn't sing that you know for the Magic Johnson finale and then they show them singing at the Magic Johnson

and if you didn't sing it for the Jerry Springer finale and they show something that was a very very funny bit and of course they had a big Letterman one with the montage and all of that so it was really entertaining and you know we talked about like somebody asked about Leno and

and he said well Well, you know, Lano's bit wasn't really that member. And I said, well, remember, he did a thing celebrating all the kids who had been born. That's right. That was the reveal at the end. The curtain or the scrim opens, and you see that that's what the reveal was.

And, you know, I said, you know, and that was sweet and nice and all that, but it didn't really resonate as a great idea or a funny idea or whatever. So, you know, I thought it was a good idea and well executed. And I didn't have to do that much talking because the clips were on. And he'd ask me one question and we'd go to the next clip.

Now we have the wormhole to add to all of those. I guess the wormhole if he wants to do another session next year. Yeah, definitely. Mark, what's going on with you? I know you had a podcast that you wanted to promote on here and you just wrapped up the latest season of Inside Light Night is wrap. We're going to be doing more episodes coming up. I'm really excited to talk to hopefully some Colbert people,

a lot of Saturday Night Live people. So that's going to be exciting. Carson book, my Johnny Carson book, Love Johnny Carson is still on sale. It's been fun hearing from people across the country that is Johnny. And I do want to mention a friend of our show, Robert Smigel, his podcast is so much fun.

The most recent episode is Jim Downey and Dave Letterman. And it's comedy gold. Oh, my goodness. Please do yourself a favor. If you're having a bad day, if you're having a good day, this will put you in a good mood and I didn't want it to end.

That was fantastic. That's incredible. Bill, anything you're working on that you're writing? Yeah, well, I mean, it's going to be an interesting time without, you know, a lot of active shows. But I do think I'm going to write something at some point digging deep into the Byron Allen thing. You know, just the mechanism of it and what really can be expected for this kind of long term. And why I think it's kind of revolutionary what he's doing.

because it's not, it's really not what we've ever seen in late night before. It's completely a traditional. So that I think will be kind of interesting. And we got Bill Maher getting the Mark Twain Award, which I think will be kind of interesting that that's coming up to. And there's another anniversary coming up. I can't forget. There's another big anniversary that I will dive into.

But, you know, it's a slow season for late night. There'll be a lot of interesting guest hosts for Kimball, and that's getting more interesting because, he's going to be doing very well and then go off the air. And that means a lot of a lot for Jimmy Fallon, an opportunity for Jimmy Fallon at that point. No Colbert, no original Kimmel. Very interesting challenge for him. That's very true.

So you can find Bill's writing, of course, at Layniter.com and Mark's incredible podcast as well. Things that are coming up that we're watching in June, certainly Kimmel taking his summer break and who those guest hosts will be. I think that begins around June 18th. James Corden is hosting the post FIFA World Cup show starting June 11th. So we'll keep an eye on that. I think they're doing 24 episodes. I would definitely talk to him. James, I will definitely talk to him.

Yeah, that'll air, I believe, at midnight on Fox, air 24 episodes through mid-July. So we'll see that. And it's also, of course, for your consideration season. We're voting for the 2026 Emmy Award. NOMS will begin on June 11th, closed on June 22nd. So you may have seen already a lot of things happening with your favorite late-night personalities and SNL cast members pitching to get. those nominations and then following the nominations, the official 78th primetime Emmy Awards will be

announced those noms on July 8th, 2026. So a lot coming up here over the next couple of months. Of course, we're very excited to be covering it here at Late Nighter. We want to know what you thought of the podcast today. So you can always leave your comments on the YouTube video or on the article where this is posted on Late Nighter or let Mark or Bill know what you think if you're a friend of our great personalities that we have over here. So on behalf of everyone here at Late Nighter, My name is John Schneider, and we will see you next time. Have a good one.