Inside Late Night with Mark Malkoff - Wally Feresten

Episode Date: September 24, 2024

Wally Feresten joins Mark to discuss doing cue cards for Saturday Night Live since 1990, Chris Farley's challenge with cue cards, writing jokes for Norm Macdonald's Update, Jon Hamm's confidence as host, Heather Locklear being upset with her cue cards, Weekend Update auditions, & Jack Nicholson's difficulty ice skating.    Buy: Cue Cards By Wally Follow on X (Twitter): @cuecardwally Follow on IG: @cuecardwally_official “Back Stage with Wally” on LateNighter

Hi, I am Mark Malkoff, and welcome to Inside Late Night, presented by late-nighter.com. Today's guest is Wally Ferristin. He has done Q-Carts at Saturday Night Live since 1990. I learned so much from Wally about Saturday Night Live from talking to him. This is part one of our conversation, and be sure to check out QCardsbywally.com where you can buy your own personal cue card from Wally himself. Now it's time to go inside late night. Wally Farriston, thanks for joining us.

Mark, I am an avid fan of yours. I listen to your podcast. First of all, let me congratulate you on achieving the first, the brother's quotient of your podcast. You've had now two brothers on with my brother Spike. Was he your first guest? He was my first guest. I was really excited, and I was thinking about that

because I almost got the Smothers Brothers on my other podcast. Well, the Ferrisencers, you've achieved your brother's quota for the podcast, so you're good. I have. The other thing was, yeah, I listen to you. Every week, it's great. Oh, thank you. You're on my podcast list because everybody you're interviewing are people that I've worked with, mostly. And the Jim Pitt one was great because he was really good friends with my brother.

They were like best friends. They started around the same time at SNL. So they had a lot going on. I wanted to give real quick, and if people were curious, you might have people. people that listen every week, I'm sure. Yeah, I hope so. You guys were talking about McCartney on S&L. And I was listening to it and I was like, where can I call in? And I can tell them my memory of this because I have a very vivid memory of this happening. It's a big memory for everybody. And I'm not saying my memory is correct, but this is how I remember it. I just want to set this up.

This is February of 93. Take it away. Yes. So Paul McCartney was the musical guest. He was coming on to play two Paul McCartney songs that were new songs. So yes, it's Paul McCartney, but no one was really that excited because he was, he came in for Thursday. He did have a Thursday rehearsal and he played two new songs. And they were good, but they're not Beatles good. You know what I mean? So it was like, we were like, yeah, the great Paul McCartney is it. No one was not really a lot excitement. Then between Thursday and Friday, they added the third song. So he came in Friday night for an extra rehearsal to figure out that third song and what he was going to play. And that's when we're all just working, and he just starts playing Beatle songs.

And the work stopped. Like, as Jim said, everyone stopped working, went out to the studio. And now, oh, my God, this is Paul McCarty. This is the Paul McCarty we love. So that was just my, and he, you know, and Jim told it very well, like, what songs he played. And he, I think he messed up some lyrics to Lady Madonna or one of them. He kind of like, it was really funny.

And it was great. It was a great moment. But that was my memory. He had two songs. He wasn't going to play a third. They added it. And that's why we had that Friday rehearsal. When did they ever do that with a musical guest?

Because Friday is, and Saturday is so down to the second with rehearsals. I mean, it's with Paul McCartney. They gave him like an hour. So it's funny, too, because while he was waiting to rehearse, you know, we were doing sketches and stuff, he's just walking around the studio. He came back and sat in our Q card area while we're printing cards. And we had some like candy, and he started eating M&Ms from one of the bowls of candy that we had back there. and just shooting the with the Q-card people.

It was the craziest. That was one of my favorite episodes. I remember he made a cameo in The Mimic, which was I think Al Franken, Christine Zander, and I'm leaving somebody out, wrote that sketch, but McCartney, and then Jim Downey, and I think Ian Max Stone Grimm had a hand in it. They wrote the Chris Barley show with McCartney,

which is so brilliant. I mean, no, Franken. I think Franken was one. It was Franken, and I think, yeah, Maybe Ian worked on that a little bit, but I know the first one I think was Jim. So I just wanted to, I was listening when you guys were talking about it. And I, like, that memory is so vivid in my head. And I went to go text both you guys and I don't have your number.

I don't have Jim Pitts number. Yeah. Jim is such a great guy. Yeah. And I don't see him. I don't see him enough. When I ever see him, I'm like, hey, Jim. And it was like he, like, you know, when I started, he was like my brother's brother's best friend.

So we, you know, we were in the trenches together. But how do I know you, Mark? How did we meet and when did we meet and how are you at so many freaking S&L shows? That's what, you know. Okay, that's another episode, but I'll give you a couple. Give you a little bit. Give you a little. I would camp out when I was in high school for the show, so I'd see you around and you were very, very nice.

Did you ever work on any of the shows, any of the late night shows or? No. Oh, I worked on Letterman. I had a day job at the Colbert Report and a day job at Letterman. Those were way, too. All right. But, yeah, the other stuff is another, it's all right. It might be a break up, but I was just like, I just, I was thinking back, like, how do, when did we meet and how do I, did you go to, did you go to cast parties? Did you go to any cast parties? I did. I did. I think that's where we would chat. That's probably it. Yeah, I went to some of the parties and, you know what, I do want to point. I mentioned this once, because, you know, you were there, you've been there since 1990. Yeah. And, you know, when I started going, the first couple parties I went to were, you know, when Will Ferrell got there and Sherry O'Terry, in 95 with David.

that Kekner and Nancy Wals, Darryl Hammond, and Brewer were the new people that they hired. And see, I didn't know this. I walk in and there's empty seats and I just sit down and I have no idea that this is such a big deal. It really took to like maybe half the season or more until somebody was like, you know what? You're not allowed to sit down. I was like, what do you mean?

I sit down all the time. I remember it was Phil Hartman when he was with gin blossoms and that was like 96. And I believe this was on Fifth Avenue the after party where they're like you, you know, are not allowed to sit. I had no idea. Probably since then that's a thing. People that work at the show have to, you know, stand at the bar. You know, it was a different time because, you know, interns were allowed to go to the shows, to the parties. Pages at one point, there's all this lore about what happened, why they were stopped. Yeah, it was fun because you never really get to know the interns and how are they going to get to know. Like, I would meet them at the parties because

they'd be at the bar and you would, you know, I'd chat with them. Oh, we'd go to school and it's nice. what do you want to do? And then, you know, maybe I recruit from that, you know, if I'm looking for somebody doing cue cards, if you're interested in that. What I, my memory, yeah, it was different. My memory was I never sat at tables unless, like, I was sitting down with a writer or one of the actors. Like, I've sat in the older days. I would go to the party with Farley and Sandler sometimes. And they would like, come over and sit with us tonight, Wally. So I would sit with them for the whole night. And that was just a whole experience that I don't remember a single thing we talked about, but we just laughed the entire time. It was fantastic. But I remember

a group of interns sitting at a table next to Lauren like late in a party and just being rowdy and being jerks. And I think they were promptly let go. And then that was the end of letting interns go to parties after. I've heard a bunch of different versions like that. But yeah, it started, I believe the pages then weren't. And then the interns, yeah, they saved a lot of money on those $12 amstells or whatever. I know. I know. Except for the last part of the party. I love the fact that both you and your brother, Spike, I mean, both if you don't, these aren't your names. Wally was never is not your legal name.

Spike is not even close. No. I mean, you're Chris. Yep. And your brother's Michael? Yep. So funny. He gave you the name Wally because you kind of were, would wheeze a little bit.

You had kind of, was it allergies? I had asthma. I had allergies, but I also had asthma. I was allergic to a lot of stuff. So we shared a room. And yeah, I would wheeze when I was sick. I would wheeze at night. It would keep him up. So Wally the Weezer came out of, you know, older brother, older brother nicknames. So he's 11 months older than you, and you're in

Massachusetts. You're going to West Bridgewater High School. And then you go to Syracuse, and then you graduate, you go to L.A. for a couple years. And then you moved to New York. And is this, you're working at a golf course. Is that? Yeah. Before, so, this is a funny, this is a funny story. I couldn't find a job. You know, nothing was going on yet. I moved there. The girl I was living with is a nurse, and she was paying our rent and stuff. But she was like saying, you need to start working, you know, you need to start contributing. So I thought I'd get a job as a bike messenger. And I was like, that'll be fun.

I'll get in shape. And I'll, you know, run around the city to be fun. And I didn't have a bike, but I went down and interviewed. And they hired me. And I went, my brother had a bike I knew. And I was like, hey, can I borrow your bike? He's like, yeah, what do you need it for? And he was like, I'm going to be a bike messenger.

They just got hired. He was like, oh, yeah, yeah, sure. Come on over and get it. So I got it on my way over to get it, he called my mother and said, call Wally and tell him he can't be a bike messenger because he's going to kill himself in the city. Don't get off the phone until he's doing degrees. So he was like, here's a go. Here's the bike. And he let me ride it all the way back to my apartment on the east side.

He was on the west side. And I got home and my mom was on the phone and she was in tears. Don't, don't be a bike messenger. Your brother says, I go, wait, he told you they just gave me his bike. No, you're going to kill yourself. Please don't do it. So I turned down the job. I didn't do it. And then I got hired at a golf course, like, soon after. Yeah, I was working. I was just like working in the pro shop at a golf course in Queens.

And that's when Spike calls you and said that they're looking for somebody to do cue cards. Now, this is interesting to me because Tony Mendez, when I've met him when I worked at him at Letterman, I mean, the biggest jokester. I mean, we were in the elevator. He, like, hit every single button, like, whatever kind of troubled to get into. But then I never really, I never really, never worked with him in a work capacity like this. So at SNL, I mean, he was a different person. I mean, you were for him and it was like, I get that. It's like, you know, an athlete or somebody, you know, lots of fun. You get there and you're in that zone and you have a job to do. Yeah. You almost have to be with doing Q cards. And back then, I have a staff of nine or 10 on a

Saturday now. I think we had six, maybe seven doing all the printing and doing all the holding. It wasn't a big, it wasn't a big staff. And you have to be. You have to be. have to be rigid and follow these things or nothing's going to get done or, you know, it's not going to get done in time. And he was really a trailblazer. He set up a lot of the rules that I still use today. But yeah, he was by the book. And if he didn't like, if the card was not printed neat, he would say, do it again. I'm not going to bring that out to the floor and show it to anybody. That's what I think it's so interesting. Because when you, when you start, the writing was, Tony wasn't using some of yours because they were a little bit

messy. But the thing that you had that I never really thought about is that you had, you were really, really good at holding, your ability to hold the cards. Yeah. I mean, sometimes you're holding a lot of cards and they get heavy. But you, that's what you got before that you were good with the printing. You were at good hold with the holding. I don't understand why. I try to think about it. And maybe it was just being young. And like, you know, I was, I wasn't afraid of being on the stage and near the cameras because, you know, I've been doing plays and stuff like that. I didn't want to be an actor.

I wanted to be a writer. But maybe the hand-eye coordination of it, you know, playing baseball and playing sports growing up, golf, just I took to it. It was something that I took to right away and I was good at right away. And I didn't have to practice a lot. I was just naturally good at it. And it saved my job, I think. I really think he would have fired me if I wasn't good at holding. I love that they gave you for your first sketch, such an just an iconic sketch.

I mean, you have Mike Myers doing Dieter with Sprockets. I will still say, I have the screenplay somewhere. You know, he said it was flawed, but it was such a funny, funny script. But Mike Myers, to do of anything, I mean, this is the season premiere, Kyle McLaughlin. Yeah. Was that Chenade O'Connor? I think it might have been. No, was it?

I thought that it was, because she didn't do dice clay, but I thought she came back to the before. It wasn't the Tim Robbins. Oh, that one. But I thought it was. But, you know, Kyle McLaughlin's there and you do your first one. And then that is when you're like, okay, well, he has it. And we're going to give him more opportunities. It was funny.

I remember they gave me the first six cards to the sketch. And I would never do this to anybody. It was only six cards. Like, you know, sometimes the sets don't all match. If they're just reading the camera, we'll just do one set because, you know, he's not looking at different cameras. So we'll do, so I had those six cards and then he went to different cameras and other cards were there.

And my boss, Kevin Kay, who was working there at the time, who was above Tony, whose uncle owned the company that we worked for was he was standing behind me. Like, I don't know what he was going to do. Like maybe if I freaked out, he was going to grab the cards from me. And I don't know. But he, I held him. I held him perfect. I walked away.

And he was like, I've never seen anything like that. And I was like, what? He was like, your entire body was shaking. But the cards were perfectly still. You flipped them perfect and they were perfectly still. I was like, it was meant to be. Speaking of Mike Myers, you know, I've heard there are certain people, Jan Hooks was one that were really visibly nervous before the show.

Sometimes, you know, the most confident people on air, you can't tell. Who were maybe a few of the cast members that you remember being maybe the most visibly nervous? Bill Hater. So, yeah, he's talked about that. Talks about a lot. And he told me, and I don't know if he said this in public, he was always terrified of he was nervous about making mistakes.

And it was like that thing. So he realized that later as, I don't know what season he realized this was, he, he, would make a little mistake on purpose at the beginning of each sketch, like maybe mispronounce one word just off a little bit, and then it would relax him because it's okay, it's not going to be perfect. I made the mistake. And now it's like, so he would trick himself into making a little mistake. And then he'd be fine. He'd be relaxed, you know. He was one of the best. It's so interesting when you hear some of these people that, um, you, I mean, we've worked for Letterman and common knowledge, how nervous Dave would get before the show. Yeah. I mean, the people that

worked at the Tonight Show when he was guest hosting. I mean, it was, they could not believe how much anxiety had. And then he went out there and, you couldn't tell it went away right away. And he was cool, Dave. Yeah. I mean, for the cast members, the repetition really works with them. And they're nervous, but they don't, it doesn't show that much because they're, they're doing it every week.

I mean, I deal with the hosts every week. And if it's a new host, and if it's somebody that's not used to being on live TV, there's a lot of nerves there. And my job is to, I'm one of the people that, you know, Higgins works on the, you know, creative side with them, calming them down, saying this stuff's going to be funny. Trust us. We'll get it, you know, get it there. I'm the side of just getting, gaining their trust in the Q cards and hopefully not letting them think about it too much, just going out there and performing and reading and not focusing too much on that. The only reason I'm going to mention this host name is because

Rob Schneider publicly said it, which was that he was over to visit the show. And that would have been probably 88 maybe, and Deborah Winger was on and he, they was just getting a tour and they were going to hire him as a writer and he saw Deborah Winger crying in her dressing room between dressing air. I don't want you to name any host, but does that sometimes happen that the anxiety is that high, that there are tears there have been? Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I probably, I don't see that. I mean, I'm in the dressing room a decent amount, but I usually don't see that stuff. And if something's happening, talent department is on it fast to help help out. How often are you, though, with the host with the cue cards for the monologue and their dressing room?

How many of them want that? It's a thing that Higgins and I do in the writers that write the sketch, and it's almost like a tradition we do. Like more of Higgins look as like a superstition. So even if it's a comedian, so I'll go, we'll go in 15 minutes before dress with the monologue cards, me Higgins and the writers, and 50 minutes before air, same thing. And even if it's a comedian that's doing a stand-up routine and they don't have even bullet points on few cards. It just says, thank you, thank you, thank you very much. And then we have a great show for you. The ending, we still go in and show them those two cards. I was going to ask, so when Bill

Burke goes out there, or I know that Louis C.K. was, you know, wanted to do this entire thing in Lauren's life. There's cuts there and they made the cuts. So they, did you not have like word by word? Oh, the comedians don't use word by words. They'll, I'll put bullet points sometimes. Bullet points, okay. It'll just be like the first three words of a bit or or the total of what the subject matter is and that's it and they know it in their heads because they're stand-up comedians they do they do this stuff all the time you know yeah that that does make sense um who is the most confident host that you remember a few that just you know it's the first time hosting and you just can't believe how like they're like let's do this this is going to be great and you just you just have

that confidence who were some of them that's a really good question i mean john ham comes to mind you was fun i was there at the first one that he did and it was so i've said this it was so surreal because the madman cast was right behind me. Yeah. And they're doing that madman sketch right there and watching them being played as. Yeah, Seth Myers talks about it. Seth Myers talks about a lot, like, you know, just no one had any idea that he had, you know, this sense of humor side. He was phenomenal. Oh my goodness. He knocked it out of the park. That was Coldplay and John Hammond Cole play. And that was, I thought that was a phenomenal show. I remember that. It really was. It was really was. Like, he was like right off the bat. He was good.

I'm trying to think, trying to think of somebody else that I was like, Wow, these guys, this person's really good. You know, Duolipa was pretty, very good last year, too. And what impressed me about her was she had her mom there, I think. Not a lot of other people, you know, around. And she knew everyone's name on the crew that was helping her out. Me, the props people, the wardrobe people, she had their names down like the first day. And that is a talent for sure because I'm horrible with names.

And she comes in, she's this big star, and she's calling me Wally on Friday. and she's calling the props person her name. And I was really impressed by that. That's a talent. That's amazing when people, you know, who is it? Brian Stack who wrote for Conan Forever, who's now Colbert is famous for remembering people's names. Really?

The interns and, oh, my good. Did you know Brian at all? I know Brian, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. He was one of those people. I mean, that's a talent, especially when, like, somebody has so much going on in their head. I know.

I know, it's very impressive. You know, I was talking to David Kekner, And he was telling me that, and I know this has happened sometimes where Lauren will be off to the side and be like, we have to cut 45 seconds or 30 seconds off the sketch. And it's like, you have to, they're going to be doing it in like 10 seconds. We need to cut time. How are you is doing the cue cards able to do that with them to cut off time during the sketch? So, I mean, usually we'll know, like we're listening to the, we have a box in our area, which we're, we're just backstage. We're underneath the bleachers to let people know. we're right, you know, as close to the floor as you can get. Most of the time will get those cuts in the commercial break before the sketch. So I'll have like three minutes or so and script comes down, Claire will come down with it. And it's usually cuts.

So we can do those pretty quick. If we have to do it cuts and then add a line for like the cut to make sense, that's where it gets a little hairy. So we usually have that time. Sometimes it'll be a minute and we'll be on the floor already. and our guys will come out with friggin' tape and pens and be like, well, there's another cut, there's another cut. And then we have to do it right on the floor in front of the actors, which I'm sure is terrifying to them.

But it's when we do it and we can usually do it, the crowd loves it and the actors are clapping. And it's funny, Lauren, I was at a, we did that one time where we were on the floor. It was last minute. We had to do it. We did it. We made the cuts. And we get the cards up like, I don't know, maybe eight seconds before the sketch was going to start.

And Lauren said to me later, and he was like, it was great. seen you tonight on the floor and I was like what I mean I'm on the floor all the time what are you talking he's like no no on the floor when you're on the floor making those cuts he was like the audience love that and he's like he's like that's such a great part of this show when we can do that and do it well so it was really cool for him to say that that energy you know Mikey day um with you were you were um they had you in a video on Mikey and straighter were in it and Mikey was saying that sometimes even like three minutes before the sketch hope you with the cue cards and making changes and I'm guessing Robert Smigel I'm guessing would maybe do that how often does

that happen? I'm guessing not too much, unless there's like, unless it's like the last minute emergency and stuff, but is that common that the writers would be with the QCard people up for like a minute or two? It's usually the timing thing, like towards the end of the show is usually when it is, or, you know, it's funny, it used to happen a lot more because there was a system in place where we wouldn't start, the script department had to bring us to changes. And they wouldn't get to us sometimes to 11, 11, 10 to make changes on the cold open. So that's when it get really interesting, especially a long cold open and you're making changes. You only have 20 minutes to make them. It was crazy. So one year, it's just just by chance. One year, one of our, one of the crew left,

this is before I started my company. So it was pre-2004. So it had to been 2000, 2001 sometime. One of our guys left and we were like, okay, we can all do this job without that person. We think we can do it without with seven instead of eight. So I went to, went to, the owner of the company, we said, don't hire an eighth person. We can do it. We want to split that eighth person's salary amongst us all. So he was like, sure, that's fine. Do it. So we did that. And then I went to the script department. I was like, hey, just curious, when do you start getting changes for air? Because we don't get them to 11, 1110. And she's like, oh, we start getting them during dress. And I was like, could you send those to us and bring those

down to us? And they were like, yeah, I don't see why not. So that was just like one of these weird things that I asked about it, and they started sending them to us. And then they still come down and check them, make sure we did it right, and then the writers will check them. But we started getting the changes during dress for air. So now we're making changes during dress for the air show. That's so nice. I was going to mention that. I wanted to say, you know, you end at 1130. So right after dress, take me through it. So the script supervisor will go through everything. And then the writers, whoever, will be doing that. And are you in that meeting when they're deciding when Lauren is going, it was revealing what sketches are going to get

in and not? Or is that just relayed to you? No, I'm not in that meeting. I'm in the meeting where the board comes down and we see what sketches are in the show. It's in Lauren's office, right? You're in that way. Used to be in Lauren's office before COVID. Oh, where is it now? It's in the studio. Oh, interesting. We all sit in the chairs on the floor. We stand around that. Lauren has the board right next to him on home base and he sits on a stool with a microphone and talks about the changes and what, you know, went wrong in every sketch and what we can fix kind of. Wow. And then how much white artist tape are you using then during those? Because, you know, you don't want to, if you can, if you can salvage some part of the cue card, because it's so, it takes so much time. How often are you

able to use the white tape and maybe cut stuff out and write over? You use it. We use it all the time. And I go through it, like I've had four boxes sitting in our area all summer long because we're not, you know, S&L's not doing it. We don't use it a ton on Seth or Fowland, you know, occasionally, you know, a little bound. But when you make a mistake, you'd tape over it. But as soon as S&L's, I guarantee you those four boxes will be at least cut in half, maybe three of them will be gone after the first four shows. We use it a lot. And how often do you do the continental cards, which are the half cards? Because, you know, when Chris Walkin does that, and, you know, they did the content.

I think before you got there, maybe like a couple of them. Yes. But you actually cut the cards in half. How often does that happen? We cut them in four. Oh, in four. Oh, my goodness. Yeah.

So we'll use half cards. So we'll cut the regular cue card size. We'll cut in half and we'll use that sometimes if the camera's really close. If it's a handheld camera sketch, a Mikey and in Streeter sketch where they have me, you know, Mikey's talking and if I'm following him around and stuff like that, we'll do half-size cards because they're not that close to the camera. For the Continental, it was, you had to cut it into force, and we actually call those Continental Size. We'd call those the Continental Size, named after that sketch.

We don't, you don't use those very often. We used them for the Jimmy Fallon and Horatio sketch, the one they were on, and Hampshire College, remember that one? Oh, yeah, no, I know that. They did that a bunch of times. Yeah, so we would use those because Jimmy was right up to the camera because it was like a computer, be on a computer kind of thing. So I know we used them for that, but very rarely somebody that close to camera that we have to do that.

So the host is in black ink and then you have everyone else gets four colors. And then if there are more people in the sketch, sometimes you double up and put their names on it. You know, I think it was Chris Rock or Leslie Jones was saying that they did a sketch together. And I think maybe, I don't know if Leslie Jones got Chris Rocks. She got mixed up in the cards. How often does that happen?

It happens. It does. It does happen because sometimes, you know, I try to keep certain cast members in one color. Like, you know, like Ego, I try to always put in blue. But if she only has one or two lines in a sketch and somebody else is in a blue person, I try to give, you know, I'll give them the sketch, you know. I'll give them their blue color. And I'll say to Ego, hey, you're in green in this. But I'll try to put like Ego's name in front of it so that doesn't happen. But Leslie, yeah, Leslie got confused a lot with the cards. You couldn't, I couldn't tell, except for the one where she, with Chris Rock, where they did that one sketch. It was like the 10 to one sketch. And Chris, uh, Rock said it went very well and it went better in dress. And yeah, but that was a thing with her. Yeah. It happens, you know, like people like, because they'll, they'll change a lot of lines. Sometimes they'll, they'll give Chris Rock lines to Leslie and Leslie lines Chris Rock.

And if they haven't seen the changes or looked at it closely because there were other sketches, you know, they just don't have, they don't have the time to learn it. And listen, it happens. But hopefully it doesn't happen on air. It happens on dress and, you know, it's perfect on air. That's what we shoot for anyway. Another person that had problems with the cards was Farley. It was Chris Farley. What was the disconnect with him with the Q cards?

Well, him and Adam, neither one of them could see very well. And they didn't need, and neither one of them could wear contacts. And Chris wore glasses, but he wouldn't wear them on air. So we had to print their lines really big. And it's really hard to get a rhythm when there's only like sometimes, you know, eight words on a card, and I'm flipping them really fast, because if it's a fast-paced sketch, I'm literally pulling them as fast as they're reading them, and it's hard to get a rhythm with that. And, you know, I begged them, like, go get context, go get something. They just never

wouldn't. If they were, I remember there were some sketches where Chris and Adam, where they play that old married couple, you know, that one. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. That was, they did that one, the most famous one when David Duchovny did the, was it the season finale with, um. Right. So they will get it together, and neither one of them can see. So I'm printing their giant lines. Sometimes it would be like 80 cards, 85 cards. And I'm like, like, freaking killing me. You know, like it's so

hard. That is Bob Hope. That's what they, Barney McNulty did with Bob Hope, it was these giant letters. And Ed McMahon, I don't know if you know this, up until like 80 or 82, that they were trying to get McMahon, had to wear glasses during sketches and he, or during the show and he wouldn't do it.

And then they started making the giant letters and he still was having trouble with it. So then he started reluctantly wearing the glasses on air but yeah and it's it's it's we try to we try to make them as big as possible but i explained to them look it's it's not it's going to it's going to it's going to be harder for you to read them especially if you're not used to reading them especially on a live show and you know i'll do everything i can to help him out but like adam has since gotten the surgery so he's come when he came back i didn't have to print him big he was like normal size wall and i was like he was like

he's like it did it for you was like yeah you didn't do it for me i was asking you for you to do it so uh but that was good so that was always that was always fun to do Were there any other cast members other than Farley at Drasser before the show at Smoke? He's the only one I ever remember before on the floor, like two minutes before the show and all his makeup and stuff where he would take puffs sometimes. Maybe Norm an update, maybe it would take a puff. Maybe Pete Davidson I would see sometimes with a cigarette. But usually not.

We're too busy. I'm too busy at that point to notice, you know, notice that stuff. Yeah. You were quoted in the Los Angeles. time saying when Chris Rock was on the show, it's hard for him to read cue cards. And I think that's one of the reasons why they didn't use him enough. I never knew that, that that was an issue for him as well. It just seems, it just, yeah, he had, he had some trouble with him. And some people do. And it's not a natural, it's not an easy thing if you're, if you're not a really, you know,

good reader. I just don't know what it is. I remember Darrell asking for help when he started on the show, because he was getting into these cold opens. And he was, like, I need to learn how to read these better. You know, what could we do? And I was like, come back in practice and read, read, we constantly come back three or four times on a Saturday or a Friday and read your lines. And you'll get better. And it helped them out.

He became, you know, you get really good at reading them by doing that. I heard Dan Aykroy could just read cards cold. He's never seen them before and he can do that. Do you know if that is true and if anyone else can do that? It doesn't surprise me. When he hosted, I was there when he came back and hosted. I, you know, and I don't know what year it was. You maybe can tell me what you remember.

It was Tom Davis came with him. I think it was around 2000. It was like near where Al Gore came with Fish. It was around. So 2000. So I'd been there for 10 years. He did like seven different impressions for his sketches. Like each sketch he had a different impression and it was natural and he would just pop

into it. I was just like, man, he was so talented. And he was like, that was like the perfect job for him. I could see how he just had no trouble doing, you know, performing. Effortless. When I saw him do it the first time when he, it was John Goodman hosted and

Akroyd came with him and stuff and did sketches and was doing that. Tom Snyder and Irwin Waymoe. And it was, yeah, I'd never like, I mean, his skill set was unbelievable. What was it like when you were doing the update auditions for Q cards when Tina and Jimmy got hired?

Because you have Tina and Jimmy auditioned together and then you have Chris Parnell and Anagaster and then you had Kevin Brennan and Jeff Ross. I don't know who else audition. Did they do together or do they separate? Kevin and Joe. They were separate.

That's what I remember. And then Jeff almost got hired, but it did not happen. I remember Jeffrey. It was, it was funny because we did car, you know, we had to do cards with them. And we, you know, each group, each group was their own thing. So they'd be coming back to us and checking their cards. And we had to like keep all the cards separate. Like this is, this is, you know, Tina and this is, you know, these guys.

And, you know, Jeff Ross took some big swings. I thought it was really funny. I mentioned to him a couple times after I saw him after he didn't get it. Like, it was like, oh, you know, I met you when you were doing the weekend update. He was like, oh, don't bring that up. I was like, oh, it was so funny. I heard he was amazing. I mean, it was really funny.

Yeah. It was really funny. I'm just glad I'm not in the position to have to decide who to give the jobs to because, you know, I'm there to help them out. And it was fun helping them out in doing that. But man, that's a lot of pressure, you know, to pick to, pick who's going to be the older. When Norm got update in 94, did he do a test with the Q cards before when they hired him? Did he do it? Laura Kightliner was going to do it with Norm. It was announced in the trades that they were going to do it together. Did they ever test together to do

update? I don't remember. I don't have a memory of that. I don't know if they did that a lot. You know what I mean? I mean, you sit at the desk and read the jokes, you know? I mean, it was down to Franken and down to Norm and Norm got the gig. And then, We did. Maybe I, now you, now that you say that, I remember maybe holding, maybe seeing Franklin doing it. Maybe we did some test. Maybe we did a little testing. And then what happened is, you know, you're at there Friday. You're doing a 12 hour day. And then instead of going down to the lobby and getting in a car and going home and sleeping, you'd go up to the 17th floor and write update jokes until, you know, four in the morning, five in the morning. Yeah. I mean, I guess that's

the youth you have the energy to do that oh yeah you can't i couldn't do it now but you were doing that for kneeling as well on update too right you were contributing to the jokes yeah it was a different time you know because there was no internet really you know it was it was we would it would be stacks of newspapers and there would be um ap photos like stacks of ap photos from the week and you would thumb through them and see if you could write a joke to a picture that was on one of those photos But the frightening thing was, if you thought you had a good joke for the, you had to read it out loud in front of everybody, Jim Downey, Norm MacDonald, all the writers that were sitting around there. So he wrote, like, not just turn them in, you're going to read that out loud. You got a bunch in. I mean, I know that you got a bunch in for Norm, which is not easy. I mean, you had Frank Sebastiano, Braz-A-Bash, some really, yeah, and I mean, you had people. Now, when you were doing for Neeland, Herb Sergeant was around. I know he was very territorial. He was. okay that you were writing stuff for Kevin, Neelan? He didn't care. He didn't see the mind.

And it was almost like Kevin was, it was almost like people were like, you know, it was almost the more the merrier because Kevin, I think, felt a little uncomfortable about doing update at first from my memory. He, it definitely took him a little bit to find his voice. And he was definitely made a very big choice to play it different than anyone else had played update before. It was yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I think, I think it made him feel good that. people were pitching in to give him jokes, even trying to give him jokes. I think that made him feel like, okay, you know what I mean? Like, all right, you know, people were behind me and that kind of thing. So whether they were accepting them or not and whether Herb Sergeant was

controlled that. I don't remember that, you know, I think Herb sergeant knew my brother fairly well. So I think I got a little bit of a pass from Herb. I don't remember ever having like any words with Herb, like bad words with Herb. It was always nice to me. Doing an update was the only time that you ever got the card stuck with Norm where he couldn't get his punchline out? Is that the only time it happened? No. No, it's happened a bunch of times that I try to forget. I think it happened. The one that really kills me was, I think it was Will Farrell was hosting. I think he came back to one of the hosting things and he was doing the singing teachers where they sing that character with Anagastair. And again, it's one of those ones where

they're singing super fast or singing a rock song in their voices. And I, yeah, I, there was tape on a card and I couldn't get the in their singing lyrics and neither one of them could remember so there was they I don't forget what they did I don't know if they hummed or they just they paused or there was a pause and I finally got it out and they read it and I you know you feel awful because you kind of ruin the rhythm and and I apologize to them and they're and they're usually always like don't worry about it you know one card out of a thousand you you couldn't pull for us and they were like we just mad at ourselves we're not remembering the next lines you know and we're just so relying on the cards.

They, you know, we should have had that line. We should have known what it was. Oh, Derek Jeter made errors. I mean, it's going to happen. I mean, it's just your, what you guys are able to pull off every week is absolutely amazing. Yeah. What are your memories when Norm came back to host in October of 99?

I was told, I read something that somebody that went to dress rehearsal that said he was swearing through a dress, which I've never heard a host. And he really, he just was like really goofing off. Do you remember that? What do you remember of that week with Norm? I wish I can remember more. That doesn't sound unlike Norm. He didn't take anything really seriously, you know what I mean?

Even coming back to S&L, you know, he didn't care that his monologue was going to insult some of the writers and some of the cast members on the show. You know, he didn't, that didn't bother him at all. You know, so I wish I had more memories of it. It was, it was fantastic. I love Norm. I get along with him so well. Just look at any of his updates when Downey was producing him. they would usually end on a really controversial joke that wasn't getting they knew wasn't

going to get a laugh that was going to get a groan or even like booze and they loved it because they're like we can make people laugh anytime we want to we know that but can we make them grown can we make them really feel uncomfortable let's do that I mean what they did on an update what they were able to accomplish when norm got booed he said I haven't gotten any funnier the show's gotten really bad those were writers off to the side that were booing correct Probably. Probably, yeah. I mean, that sounds right. I know people were upset. I know some people that were upset. I'm not going to mention the writers. And you've been doing this forever since 1990. Is there ever been a time where people that worked on the show booed the host during the monologue? Oh, that's a good question. No, not that I can remember. No. Were you there for rage against the machine when that whole thing happened when Steve Forbes was, you know, ladies and gentlemen, rage against the machine? And then, you know, ladies and gentlemen, rage against the machine. And then, you know, ladies and gentlemen, rage against the machine. And then 10 seconds before they're trying to hang the American flag upside down, which they were told

not to do. Were you there for that? I was there for that. I don't remember any of that. And mostly because I've had this question before, let's say somebody that I really, really, really, really like. The music segments are when I get a chance to either sit down for three and a half minutes, four minutes, or go to the bathroom real quick. So I usually miss all that stuff. I don't, you know, see anything. I was going to ask you about age. and Brody, because, you know, 30 seconds of awkwardness on television seems like 20 minutes, and this actor without any authorization puts on Jamaican dreadlocks, a white person to introduce the musical guest and everything's timed down to the second.

Were you there for that? What did you witness? Yeah, I was holding the card. I was holding the card. But like, like, things like that happened. Like, you know, Will Ferrell, when he hosts, he'll come out in a different weird costume that he didn't do before on dress. So this stuff happens, and I just thought it was part, like, he was supposed to do this.

This was something he was supposed to do. I didn't know it was not, you know, it wasn't. 30 seconds. I mean, I can't even imagine Lauren for something like that. I mean, surprises and controversy have made the show, you know, relevant in a lot of cases, but I don't think this was one of them that added anything. No, I did not. I mean, some people think, oh, this is going to be really funny.

and usually they run it by somebody first if they're smart and they'd be like you know what and the higgins is a good person like you know that they he tries to get them to confide in him if they have an ideas or something like that and he'll say yeah that's great let's add that in or you know what maybe not because you know he'll explain it to him why it wouldn't work Tina Faye said that Adrian Brody had bad ideas all week so it's like listen to the professionals maybe yeah I mean yeah you know you know just it's it's it's one of those things where people think they're funny and they're and they're not you know sometimes it depends on the person yeah i was going to ask you you know i was talking to um to streeter side delin uh mikey day those guys

are unbelievable um talents they are they are i heard i saw streeter being interviewed and i believe it was him or mike was saying when they did washington's dream with nate bergazi who's coming back to host the show um that i think who was steve higgins idea to was it to raise the cards and put them up Hi. Well, we work on that a lot, positions of the cards. Like, I try to, you know, during blocking, if it's a weird, like, it was a weird setup because it was that campfire setup, but it was on home base. And it was, the cameras were in a weird thing. So I think he came out after we ran at once. And we only have one set of cards for rehearsal. And it's me trying to figure out. And maybe, I think he was, Steve was asking me where I was going to put the cards. I was like, well, you know, the usual positions are one out in center, then two on the side. But this was weird. They had kids. cameras in different spots. And yeah, I remember Higgins and me talking about it. And we tried different positions. And someone suggested, and we ended up doing four sets of cards for him. And it was two, yeah, two out. And like one was up higher. One was, when was kind of low. And then I had two in the front. And I think I was on the lower one in the front. So when he's standing, he's

talking to the guys, but he can also talk out. So yeah, it's a, it's a group thing. Like if I can't figure it out or if it's not looking right, Higgins will come out or the director, Liz will come out and we'll all talk about it and say, hey, let's try it. Let's try a set of here and try that. So, yeah. Heather Locklear had some trouble when she was reading cards and 90. She just did the finale of, what was it, 94. You know, it was a really good episode, actually, but she had trouble. They did this, was it a Melrose sketch, or they might have done a Wayne's World thing where, I believe she blamed the Q card people.

She did. She was on Letterman, she said it. Is that what it was? I had never seen a host. that was so it just looked so not good whatever

it's so funny because I wanted to go my brother was running at the time and I wanted to go on and defend myself the next night I was like hey tell Dave I want to come on and he was like yeah that's not going to happen so from my memory of yeah she couldn't find the cards in that in that thing she couldn't see where they are and they were all around

they were you know rehearsed my memory of this is and I'm not saying anything and this is nothing on her she was newly going out with Richie Zamora I believe. And he was around the whole weekend during rehearsals and stuff like that. And it didn't seem she just wasn't, I was trying to get her to focus on where the cards were going to be. And she just didn't seem to care that much. Like she didn't think to pay attention to it as much. That's my memory of it. And that's why I was a little upset when she, what she blamed us. She was very nice to me after the show. She actually is really funny. She took a picture with me after the show, like hugging me and like kissing, like making me in this really, really cool, sensual. look like she's in like she was in love with me. And I used that as my Christmas card saying that we were getting married and is my new girlfriend. And I get a great pleasure. So she wasn't mad at me. And then the next, on Monday, she blamed us for not, you know, the good. And, you know,

and that's, you know. It was just the really the one sketch. I feel like everything else she did well. And that was the season finale with her and Janet Jackson. Yeah, listen, I mean, I'm not, we're not going to say we're perfect. And now, again, that's my, that's my memory. She wasn't mad at me after the show. No. But if you're, if you're, if you're, and maybe she was focusing on the, on acting and stuff like that and she wasn't really, sometimes they don't think about cue cards until it's too late. And then it's, oh my God, where the cards?

And, and then, you don't see that anymore with hosts. I mean, it was, it's been quite a while. I remember Chris Welkin when he did, um, 92 or something had some trouble. I mean, he was, he was one of the people, um, and I know he's one of the greatest host ever. And it was just maybe the one time when he hosted where it was, like, oh, man, it was a little bit Heather Lockler in some of the sketches and stuff, but it seemed to be correct. Now, are the host told to not, to just look at the cards the whole time and not make eye contact, like, with the cast?

Depending on the sketch, yes, that's one of the suggestions we give them. We'll say to them, play to the cards as much as you can because the other actors will be. But there will be instances where you don't have to play in the cards, where you can grab a line and say it, say it to the thing. So we'll kind of help, we'll kind of help them with that. You know, and which cards to play, you know, which set of cards to play in certain situations where that. So every sketch is different.

And it used to be, yeah, but the thing is, where else, when all else fails, play to the cards because that's the best angle. And look for me because usually I'm in their eye line the most of the time we want them looking at that direction. So they look for me as well. Has there ever been a host that came in a week earlier, wanted you before Thursday, because they were so nervous that they wanted extra practice that they asked for you? No. No, I don't remember someone coming in, but they'll be hosts like on the floor the week before they're hosting. Oh, I've seen that before. Sure. That makes sense. I mean, that happens a lot. We're like, oh, hey, I'll see you next week. And, you know, no, I mean, usually when I meet them, I'll meet them on Wednesday before we through. I'll go in with cards to the dressery room and show them the two sizes that we have and ask about their eyesight, ask if they've worked with cards before. And I'll just talk to them really basic stuff, really quick. Just say basically, What's your eyesight? Like, it's good. Okay, we're going to do this size. Is that good? And I go, if you're far away, we can use the bigger size. But this is what we prefer. Just a little introduction.

Who would you say, maybe, other than Ms. O'Lockler, maybe, was very, they had a tough time that you could tell on air. Because Laura Fent Flynn Boyle, I know, was very difficult only because she had eyesight problems. She had a bunch of different things. She came to you. And as you said, perfectly, very nice person just told you ahead of time. These are some issues I have. She wanted you. wear a red shirt to help her and she had all these things that just got her through but I don't I don't think it really affected her did it when you watch no it was fantastic I mean but it was a lot of work it was like that was I was in her dressing room the entire weekend just running cards we were run cards all the time before the sketch after the sketch if it was a harder one you know just as much as she could the more she read it the more comfortable she got with it I give her a lot of credit because you had I think it was Orlando Blumen I get it was said because of his dyslexia He said no to the show.

That would make sense. But for somebody to do that, and then was Jack Nicholson hanging out on the couch a little bit while you were doing that? Oh, man. I don't, that's a really good question. No, I don't remember him then. I mean, I remember him meeting him when he was on one of the Christmas shows. He was in a sketch.

Do you remember what? He did a Roxbury piece, a sketch. Yeah, something. And it was one of those good nights that we did on the ice rink. Yeah, and he was at home base in the studio, correct? And then he was, he wasn't, no. Really? He was down on the ice rink.

He was, for one of them, he was down on the ice because that was one of my greatest moments. Like, I was there holding the cards in sneakers. He was had ice skates on, could not skate, was clinging to like the side of the ice skating rink. He, I, I walked past him, and he had his sunglasses on, and he was so, looked so uncomfortable. And I think I said something like, are you okay? And he was like, I fucking hate this ice and these ice, something like that. It was like great, classic. I was just like,

oh, Jack Nicholson. It's so awesome. Thanks for listening. Please subscribe so you never miss an episode. On Apple Podcasts, please rate it and leave a review. Be sure to go to late-nighter.com for all your late-night TV news. And you can find my podcast at late-nighter.com forward slash podcasts. Have a wonderful week.

And I'll see you next Tuesday. I'm going to be the one of the I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to and the

I'm going to I'm and the I'm at the I don't know. Thank you.