Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Bob Odenkirk

Episode Date: April 14, 2020

Bob Odenkirk (Better Call Saul, Mr. Show) joins us this week to talk about the ‘perfect amount of fame’ he’s been able to develop through everything from Mr. Show and SNL to Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul. Bob opens up on his innate cynicism he has and how it’s uncomfortable for him to interact with people not on that same wavelength. This is a great episode folks, we also get into the idea of expected attention, some frustrating experiences on the set of Better Call Saul, and the tragedy of how Chris Farley’s life played out. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Bob Odenkirk is coming on. It's an intro. God's sakes. I just blow your eardrums out. Sorry, somebody left a comment once, and they were like, yeah, I almost turned it off because I didn't see Bob, didn't see your guest. I mean, have you ever heard of an introduction?

I guess I'm that boring, huh? I didn't want to see me for whatever. Ryan's not here again so I'm doing this all about Malonesome but he is doing editing massive amounts of editing Bob Odenkirk one which is coming up right now

was pretty fantastic and it got long because I was just like holy crap it's such a great conversation we talk about Chris Farley we talk about because he wrote you know van down by the river he wrote or co-wrote

worked with Chris as well that sketch which is to me there's nobody funny than Chris Farley and that sketch is one of the funniest sketches I've ever seen and uh we talk about that a lot I think he uh he enjoyed it I was hoping he would because you never know he's like we're talking about so much about the past well um I really truly love Bob Odenkirk on this on this show he uh he was just so open and and sweet and uh we talked a lot about everything he just seemed

you know what it is he seemed interested interested in me interested in my house interested in life um you know i i know a lot i don't know one person who doesn't like bob odenkirk um he's been working his ass off his whole life and uh you know saul obviously is you know breaking bad was his big break being bad and then uh better call saul which is on now and uh is getting better and better and um i have a lot of catching up to do to be honest with you sorry bob if you're listening of this. But anyway, I'm not going to get into anything else. I hope you guys are all well. I hope you subscribe to the podcast. If you're not, please support us. We all do this for free. Obviously, we're doing, well, I pay people to help me with this. But so you just watching,

listening, sending to your friends, getting in the subscribe, writing reviews. It just really helps in the scheme of things. So I thank you dearly for that. I just started a series called The Kingdom. Pretty rad on Netflix. Um, I subtitle it. My friend Harlan decided to overdub it in English, which I don't know how he does that. It drives me crazy. A movie called The Platform. I think it was on Netflix, maybe really good.

Uh, you know, I love my horror. And, um, anyway, Camp Rosie, be on the lookout for it. It's coming out, uh, Halloween. We're going to be, uh, doing Camp Rosie. The links will come out soon. They will, tickets will sell out. It's two days at summer camp for Halloween. Camp Rosie.

Camp Rosie. And Patreon's. Thank you so much to all my patrons. It's just incredible. The large amount of people, fans, friends now. It's a community that have joined Patreon to support the podcast. And we do all sorts of fun stuff. Just go to Patreon in the app or at patreon.com.

There's so many perks. So if you're a fan of the podcast, you can join and you get messages from me when you join. And there's just a bunch of good stuff. You want to check that out. You get a bunch of extra bonus stuff. If I say a bunch of extra, she's a little wheeze. You know, something that good happened that I want to throw out there because, you know, obviously there's a lot of bad, but there's a lot of good, too. My grandfather passed away November 28th, my brother's birthday on Thanksgiving.

And, you know, he was my best friend. I loved Irv, deeply, dearly. Everyone did. And, you know, it's really tough from my grandmother. And April 8th was his, it would have been his 94th. birthday and it was tough for my grandma she's quarantined so uh we're all quarantined if you're doing the right thing and my cousin jill his granddaughter jill my cousin gave birth to a little boy and named him jack irving and i just thought that was really cool on irv's birthday that happens and i just thought

that was a damn good thing damn good thing stay tuned afterwards i'm going to read a couple of letters from and what they think of the show. And I haven't even read some of them yet, but I do read them. And thank you for just being you. Sound like Mr. Rogers. Let's get inside of Bob Odenkirk. It's my point of view.

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. So, my recording? Everything's recording. And he's recording? And that's recording over there? Oh, yeah.

Ryan, you're good? Everything's great. Yeah, so, anyway. You're looking around. Yeah, yeah, you have so much memorabilia. I think it's pretty damn cool. I mean, like I said, I don't collect stuff. I don't keep anything.

Yeah, you were looking at my stuff beforehand and you said that. One of the reasons I don't is literally because people like you exist. So I don't need to. Because instead of me having all this stuff, you have it. And I can just somehow find my way to your place once in a while and get to look at it and go, wow. And then I get to leave and you have to take care of it. Do you not have one thing at your house? Or do you have one thing that you're like, if I met this actor, if I worked with this guy, there's one thing, I would just want something.

One thing. What if it was Robert De Niro? Have you worked with De Niro? No. I sat next to him at the Saturday. in that live 45th anniversary. Did he know who you are? No.

Did you say something to him? I looked at him and he looked at me and then I didn't bother him. Did he give you like a... The breath. Yeah. He seemed in his own world. He was with his wife. I think I took her seat for my bit.

And that's why we interacted a little for a second. Yeah, I had a line or something. I think it was during Eddie Murphy's. thing. There was like a line I had. And it was right next to Robert De Niro. Yes, I was sitting next to him or his wife. Somebody had to move a seat so I could sit there for my bit so they could get me on camera. And then my seat was behind a row a little ways up on the same row as Bill O'Reilly. And lots of everybody was famous in that room. But you say, Bill O'Reilly. And I'm like, why is he here? What is he doing? What are you doing here? He likes comedy. Yeah, I'll bet. you said something Don't you love right wingers attempts at comedy It's always fucking great

So we're going to alienate Those guys on Fox News Like Greg Gutfield Oh my God It's such a sweat To watch him But you do watch it You watch it's on

I don't go there But when it's on I'm like Oh this guy's trying to be funny And I just You get to sweat like crazy And think Oh it's so hard

That's what makes you happy Watching people's trouble But maybe there's something fine and hilarious. It's kind, it's always an angry laugh. It's never a fun, sweet, or likable or his. His, his attempted humor. And I agree that if somebody were to say, well, a lot of, Bob, a lot of the comedy you did was pretty harsh stuff. You're right. Right. But there was more of a joy to it and a silliness and a lightness. But a lot of right-wingers, when they try to be funny, it's only angry. It's only just anger coming out and couched as, isn't this funny? We're making fun. And it's got such anger in it. And you can just see it's not hidden at all. And you like that. Well, I like how hard they have to work and how much.

It's just watching someone strive so overtly, so clearly striving. Because there's something about it. Just going for it. No, they are. They have tons of cares in the world. They have no, they have no, they can't relax at all because everything, oh, geez, I'm over-analyzing it to you, maybe, but comedy people would know. I think writers would know exactly what I mean, like.

What right-wingers would you say? Now, we're going to alienate a lot of people. Look, I'm just saying, what right-wingers do you think are really- I don't want to make this too political? Because I don't really- I don't get political. I just wonder who's funny. Like, you know, who's a real conservative, who's a friend of yours, who's a, you know,

very conservative, who is funny? Isn't Norm MacDonald kind of conservative? Is he? I think he's really funny. He's brilliant. It's one of the funniest guys ever. I always thought Nick DePaulo is pretty damn funny. Who's Nick DePaolo?

He's a comic, a New York comic. Yeah, very conservative. And he is very conservative. But you find him funny. He can be damn funny. Yeah. You said something in an interview that you were like famous people still make you nervous. I don't know if you're kidding around because I kind of have that feeling.

I get that feeling. So I connect. When I see something in interview like that, this little nuance of like, yeah, I get nervous. I always, do you really get nervous around big stars? you know, I've refined my sense of my own anxiety a little bit. Because some people, like, I think it has more to do with their kind of, like, the way they approach the world and who you think you're interacting with. If you think the person is on the same wavelength as you, then no.

So, like, I did a movie called The Post, and it was, I was very, very awkward around Stephen, who's such a nice person, Steven Spielberg, who directed it. Is that the one with Merrill Street? Yeah. Right, right, right. And also Tom Hanks, who I've known for a long, long time. And I'm nervous around them. Extremely nervous. Did they know that?

I think they could sense. What is it about, how would you describe? yourself. If somebody was watching you, what happens? I honestly read something today that gave me clarity on it. And it said something... I didn't read it down. Please. Please share it. It was a line from something

in an article. You don't recruit Spielberg if you aren't looking for a product with heart, one that has optimism instead of cynicism at its core. And that's true. And I think I have cynicism at my core. And so when I'm around people, who don't see the world that way.

It's hard. It's hard. I get more nervous. I don't feel like I can relax and just say anything, and they'll understand the layer of cynical critique that is just a part of how I look at the world. And then I have to be very careful around them. It's like being around an uncle at a wedding. and they go, what? Tell me about this breaking bad. And you go like, well, yeah, you know, it's not really for you, but, you know, there's a lot of violence. And, you know, you don't really, I'm not going to just relax and tell you what I'm thinking, because you're a nice person. You live in a nice world. The world you see is a nice place with good people with good intentions. And that's not how I see the world. I'm happy that you exist. And I, and I, and I, I'm not trying to dissuade you or teach you anything. God bless you for seeing things that way. We need people like you more than we need people like me.

And I don't want to, you know what I mean? Does this go through your head every time? I think it's just that feeling about, yeah. And so when I, the last day that the whole crew on that film was together, it was a wonderful moment where Stephen Spielberg thanked us all. and told us how great we were. And then we went to a restaurant where everybody was talking

and enjoying the experience we just had. And I got to hang out with Meryl and I had a great time and totally relaxed and just laughing and... Were you upset with yourself? No, because she's cynical. And so, like, I connected. Like, I was right.

Right. Like, I knew, like, oh, I mean, obviously, I should be intimidated by her a massive talent and resume and just... who she is, but way less because I could just, I could say anything and not feel like she might not understand the point of view that I'm talking from. It might hurt her feelings even to hear a rude or harsh comment.

It wouldn't. She's really a sharp kind of harsh person. I mean, she was very close friends with Carrie Fisher and so that, you know, talk about cynicism. But you feel those things right away. and you can do you can relax with a person so you felt comfortable with her i don't think it has to do with fame is my point i think the nervousness comes about a feeling of like we're i i already know we're not on the same wavelength and i'm not trying to teach anybody anything uh i'm i'm fine

with talking to people who understand what i'm saying and then you know i'm not trying to lecture people are So fame doesn't get in the way. When Spielberg walks in a room, you're not going, It does. It does. Come on, that guy's so huge. He's like an icon, and when he talks to you, it's like

Abraham Lincoln jumping off the penny and talking. And you're like, what are you talking to me for? You should be in a history book. I can't look at you. But how do you act? That just was freaking me out. But that was, everybody was freaked out by that. But take one for Odenkirk.

Take one. You're seen. Just the worst. Bealberg's watching you, he's behind the camera, who are you acting with? Now, you tell me. Who are you acting with? No, but you have to tell me a story about being intimidated. Always.

Go. My story of my life. Even like I want to hear about Clint Eastwood. Well, I had met you years ago. And I hadn't seen you so long. You've had all this fame and all this, you know, and I love it because you're one of the good guys. And you walk, I was a little nervous. I was like, oh, you know, and then you have an innate ability to sort of make people feel comfortable,

which I also, I'm not, not to brag, but I have a gift like that. I like to make people feel good, comfortable. You immediately go in my office. You're like, wow, you have all this signed shit. I wouldn't get it, but I understand why you do. And it's just like there's a rapport. You make people feel comfortable. That's nice to hear.

Well, it's true. Well, I think part of that is, you know, if you get some great roles, as you've had, and I've had, and you get attention, you kind of ask yourself, like, how much of this should I own and should I make a part of myself? like the attention you're feeding me and the focus I deserve and I should, you know, and some people feel incredibly justified and, in fact, I think, feel like they've finally found their place in the world when they get all that focus and attention. And then they carry that with them wherever they go, right?

Yeah. And then I think people like me, and I would say probably you feel like, well, no, wait, I'm just a regular person. I'm getting attention because of the project I'm in right now, whatever that is, a movie, we're on a promotional tour, or someone's a fan of the project. They don't know me. They're not a fan of me. They will never know me. My wife knows me and my kids kind of know me, and then that's about it. And everyone else who thinks I'm great or wants to talk to me or give me their focus. They're fans of the project that I'm in, not me. And so I'm okay. I'm just the working person who's in that project. And it's nice to get that reflected attention and focus. It is

nice. Isn't it? Isn't it nice, by the way? It is. But, you know, there's a difference. I think, you know, I want to get into this. But like, there's, I've used this example before, but there's a difference between like getting attention, people telling you're great, and how you fill up. feels like, it's like what equivalent to what love is, right? But love is sustainable. And then the attention isn't. It keeps coming in and out. Yeah, yeah. Comes and goes, right? So if you're banking all on that, my therapist said... That's because it's not about you. It's about your projects. And when your projects recede in time, as they all will and do, then you lose some of that focus. And you're like, where is it? Where is it? Oh, it was never for you. It was for the

projects. Right. Right. But make another one. And if it's good, you'll also see more of that. stuff coming away. Did you ever get caught up though? Did you ever get caught up? No, I think I was too old to get caught up. For the big success. Yes. Because you really had like, I look around, you had a lot of success. I told my kids when they were around eight or nine, I remember saying to my daughter, I have the perfect amount of fame. Because occasionally a person, a Mr. Schofan usually would see me and get smiley and ask for my autograph and just tell me how much they love my work. And it was like, not every day, but depends where I was. Right. Jerry's Deli. Studio City. You know, somebody would, yeah, come out of the woodwork. And it was just really fun.

And I could even say that, if you took a room full of people, I could go, that person knows me and that person knows me. And they have tattoos. They have a Mr. Show tattoo on their neck. But, but you know, you just know, and that's it. Now with Breaking Bad and all that stuff, then that was another level. And I can see how it would mess up a young person, right? If you were 26 and you were in a show that big, you would... I was 26 and small... Tell me about it. Tell me about it. You hear the doorbell? Bob, do you hear the doorbell? Yeah, that's all right. Doorbells are okay on podcast. Tell me about my success or how it happened. Being young and having that experience. Because as an older person, you've seen friends go through it. I was a writer. It's

Saturday Night Live and I and weirdly weirdly this is such a the self-hating cynical part of me whenever I'd see a friend an acquaintance have like massive fame it would not so much make me think oh my friend has achieved something great it would make me think oh anybody can be famous now because if they know me and I know them and they're famous and then it's nothing.

It just doesn't make sense. And that's dumb. You said something a little while ago and I feel like I've just never felt like I belong necessarily. Like I know I've had fame. I know I've had some great roles.

I know that I've done well. But there's part of me that like a lot of times I just don't feel. I feel like I'm still that kid from Indiana who's just trying to to make everybody laugh. Where you're from in Indiana?

Southern Indiana. I know you went to S IU. My buddy, Ethan, said go, Salukis. Yeah, yeah. So he went there. So I got to throw Ethan. Yeah, and I know Indiana a little bit because my cousins lived in Indianapolis. And now my brother, Phil, lives in Indianapolis.

And where'd you grow up? Naperville, Illinois. Naperville. Mostly Naperville. Yeah. But I would occasionally go down to Indianapolis. And even to Southern. I went once, I don't even remember who, but I was like in.

high school and a friend of mine, I was like, we're going down to my uncle's pig farm in Southern Illinois, is, is it Bloomington? Bloomington, Indiana. Bloomington, Indiana, I mean, and we went there and spent the weekend. Bloomington is nice. Yeah. They got the little five, right? I don't know the little five.

Indiana University is in Bloomington. They got the little 500, the bite grace. Do they have a farm hockey team? I'm sure they do. This city had a farm league hockey team. team professional farm league you know triple a or something sure wasn't columbus indiana might have been columbus yeah and i went to see the game it was great uh anyway um so indiana is where i i grew up but yeah great i love that part of the country and i love that strip

of of weather and all down there yeah the seasons man it's fucking great yeah carvindia a little bit of snow but not it just melts the next day do you do you Do you have good memories of growing up, like in the Midwest, Midwest, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's very mixed, but yeah, pretty good, I'd say. I mean, if my dad wasn't a piece of shit, I would have been great. Because I read about that and you always look at it.

I mean, he wasn't. He didn't beat us. So that's good. But he beat you with his words? Nah, he was just remote and, uh, and fucked up and not around. And the tension and the tension emanating from that relationship. and that his, his, what was missing, you know, it seeped through everything in our lives. And we had a great, I love my brothers and sisters, and we got along great and we loved each other and

supported each other and laughed a lot and still do, still are very close. And I'm from a family of seven kids. But the tension coming out of that feeling of like, what the hell is going on? What was it? Was he argumentative with your mother? It was money. And it was also just, he wasn't around. I have seven, there's seven kids in the family.

So your mom just took care of seven of you and you guys took care of each other? Yeah, yeah. But like, how do you even have seven kids? You have to show up seven times. There have to be at least seven nights. Seven moments. Unless there's twins, six. But outside of those seven visits, I don't know how much, you know, the guy was not to be seen.

You never, you don't remember him playing ball with you. He did. You remember those things? Not much. Yeah, he even gave me some advice once or twice that that was okay. What was the advice? Crying doesn't change anything. Is that what he said?

I remember looking at him, goes crying and I thought, no, he's right. Do you cry much? No. But I'd cry more. Oh, no. No, I think it's just from just being a guy and, I think getting older, you do a little bit more. What happened to me in the last two years? I'm like, really?

I get emotional. I get emotional. I mean, with, yeah, I don't know what it is in it, but it feels good. It feels good when you're alone to let out a cry. It does. It feels good to be emotional, to feel like you have access to your emotions. When's the last time you got emotional? Oh, man.

I'd have to think about it for longer than the podcast wants to wait. But it wasn't that long ago. I mean, I, I... Alone? A breakdown alone or with the wife? No, no. what was it i'll give you mine i mean i broke down at the end of judy movie really yeah i just lost it i think there's a bunch of that was a weird movie because i did not think the filmmaking was great

it wasn't a great movie but she was so good that's what it was holy and that all stuff after 47 years old you saw what she went through she died at 47 and it was some pills and just i don't know what it was It was just a combination of just, you know, there's been some pill poppers in my family. Oh, yeah? Yeah. And just like, you know, last year I went to this wellness center. And it was just, I don't know. Just, and it was on New Year's Eve.

I was just with my dogs. I didn't want to go out. I just sat at home. No reason. I wasn't really depressed. I just watched Judy. I think my dad said it's really good. And then I put Judy on on New Year's Eve at about like 9 o'clock, smoke a little

Jay and just Ball State University. just freaking unloaded with tears I mean it was an ugly cry It was the ugliest cry I've done No one should see that cry That's a cry that would won me an Oscar Or a Razzie It wasn't good

It's funny right Could go either way It could go either way Have you had those breakdowns Where you just break the hell down And then you're just like You laugh at yourself Because what are you doing?

You're being dramatic, Bob I don't know I don't know if I've had that But not for a long time But yeah Well you've seen grounded though You're a grounded guy. I can tell you.

Yeah, you're mature. I don't think I've ever been mature. I think that's, I'm responsible, but I'm not the most mature person. Really? Yeah. Can you not look around you? Everything's autographed. I think it's pretty cool.

No, it's fine. I think it's pretty cool. I love that jerk poster. Oh, yeah. I worked with Steve. You know why I got that. What'd you work on? I worked in a movie called Bringing Down the House.

I wear this horrible wig because I was bald from Smallville. But I remember day one, talk about making you feel good and comfortable. Like, you have the ability to do. Steve just comes up to me goes So tell me about this smallville Oh wow And I go whoa That's cool

You know the second week on said I brought him like a big thing of VHS tapes Because that's what they were doing Oh yeah yeah yeah Oh thank you Like he's gonna watch it Yeah And then at the last day of filming

I rapped And by the way at lunch You'd come over and he goes Well is anyone sitting here I go no you could And he'd sit with me He was just a great guy And the last day I said

Hey man could you sign my jerk poster It's an original I don't he's like of course coming to my trailer at lunch went in there he's playing some banjo sign my jerk poster fantastic i'll always have that right there right that's the best yeah so you wouldn't do that you'd be like hey great working with you steve yeah i wouldn't ask him to sign anything yeah i'm gonna get you by the end of this podcast to say there's one guy you might oh uh no that's a real good question um years ago i would have said woody allen would be the one person that we want to sign something

And what movie? Oh, gee, so many. Probably Zellig, though. Really? That's your favorite? It's just kind of, it's become my favorite over time. Now, what if you met him, what would you say? I'd say, hey.

Yeah, like you're going to get into it. But hey, that's just weird, man. I don't know. Unacceptable. You know, I don't, how do you know how to feel about that mess? I don't know. What a mess. It's just a mess.

It is a mess. Any way you turn, somebody's devastated. Right? That's absolutely true. You just stay away from that. Yeah, I can't do a goddamn thing about it. And I certainly can't know what happened exactly. Right.

And so it's very hard, you know. But it's just creepy and awful. And I just feel bad for every single person involved. Yeah. How do we get into this conversation? You asked me who I want to sign. I know, I know how we got into it. You know, that's weird.

I really realized that pretty quickly, when I got a job as a writer on SNL, I was 25, and I remember thinking, I should, are this going to be amazing? I'm going to be around these celebrities. Somehow that hadn't occurred to me until I got there. And then right away, I was like, oh, I don't care. I don't care about any of it. these people. But you know what? I did. I did have a guitar and I did get it signed by Neil Young, Keith Richards. Come on. And you still have it? Elvis Costello. I do. Yeah. See, that's, that's cool.

That's cool because, you know, comedians and writers love musicians. Musicians love comedians and writers. Right, right, right. Yeah. Who's the biggest comedian out there that loves you? That you're like, love me? Yeah. David Cross. David Cross. Your partner in crime. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. You know, I was thinking about those olders. I'm proud of the work that we did on Mr. Show. I know that a lot of young people who saw it, it kind of inspired them.

And I understand why we worked really hard. It was ahead of its time, for sure. In a lot of ways, it was ahead of its time. And we tried to really care about the writing and the structure of pieces and really do a kind of a pure, just solid, strong comedy. and and I think people care about that for a few years in their lives as they grow up and if they go into show business, certainly comedy. But anyway, I think, what was I saying? I feel great about that, that we did it and that people understand it and like it on that level.

I'm just curious how people like, you know, people always go, how did you get out of Indiana? How did you, I wasn't popular. I was a smallest kid in my high school. I didn't know what I was going to do. You see comedians in cars getting coffee. Do you watch that? I have seen it, yeah. There's a great moment that I've thought about a lot in regards to exactly what I think

we're talking about. Okay. It's Gary Shandling. Oh, yeah, I think I did see it. Yeah. And they're walking through the lobby of the comedy store. And they're looking at their faces, you know, the head shots from years ago. And I look at this and this guy.

Remember this guy? And then Gary goes, and there I am. I mean, that was such, he says something like, it's such a big deal to get on here. I, I mean, just me, a kid from Arizona. And then Jerry like goes, what? Like laughs at him. I'm like, what do you mean a kid from Arizona? We're all from somewhere.

What does that even mean? And it's so interesting to see, I think most people are in the Gary Shandling category of like, who the hell am I? I'm from nowhere. And then people like Seinfeld, like that is a special brain of chemicals that goes well fuck yeah i should be world famous why not anybody well you got to come from somewhere that doesn't mean anything geez i wish i could think like wow right yeah there's something great about it because it's definitely enviable um because it means that he didn't hold himself back

from dreaming big you know he also seems to have a real strong sense of what he can do and what he does well and what he doesn't do well but most of all it's that great thing of like this guy has no chemical in his brain ever telling him that he might suck. Do you think that's just what you're born with or do you think you could be you could get that? Is a Seinfeld sort of that? I think you're kind of born with it.

So you can't like achieve that like I just want where I don't care and I belong here. I want to fight. I want to get to that point. Well certainly there's people who feel. I think most people are some mix of like feeling like they don't deserve the attention and then fighting so hard.

hard to compensate for that and to argue against it that they put themselves out there and put themselves out there and desperately grab and reach for more attention and to stay in the public eye and the person who is just naturally accepting and of their biggest dream and just pursues it because, of course, you should pursue that. That's my dream. Like, it doesn't question that or question their the validity of that dream? You know what? That's amazing. That's chemicals in the brain.

That is nothing else. That is not earned. You can't make that happen. The person who doesn't have that has to wake up and meditate and tell themselves, remember, you're a human being. You can do something in the world and it's okay. It's okay to have attention from people. And they have to fucking make themselves believe that. And, I don't know, whatever you have is what you have.

I think you made me think I was thinking about college now. And I think I was, there was a fearlessness in me back then. There was sort of, once it connected, once I grew, I was actually 5-11, 6 feet tall. I went from 5-2-smallest kid in my school. Really? To then being. You're 5-2 in what year? Senior year, 5-2-3, small-sked.

Couldn't get laid. You know, my brother, Phil also grew later in life in high school. Did he have back problems too? No, he didn't have back problems, but it was hard for him because he loved soccer. But he did grow in high school, and he did play through the whole thing. Right. But he was very not very big physically until it's his story to tell. Well, mine was like a year, like the next year I grew.

So I started to be like, oh, wow, girls are sort of interested in me. So this thing happened. But I remember once I found that thing and I was like, they're like, oh, you're good at this. and once i started going and getting that confidence which was hard and i was always in fighter fight i think i've been in fighter fight my whole life yeah my whole life once i hit this place then they go i remember i go maybe i should go to grad school and study more theater my i remember my mentor goes you're ready go to new york i go what wow and i'm telling you people were like do you know the odds of making it i i remember the way i was programmed i go doesn't matter i'm going to make it i remember not caring when they said those numbers

I was like, I can't wait. I can't wait. I know what's going to happen. I remember saying to my friend Alexis Combs, I said, Alexis, we're sitting there on the porch. And I go, I'm going to make it. This is, but here's, the change is coming. I'm going to tell you the change, because it's not,

I said, I'm going to go. You were like, I'm, I said, I'm going to, at that time, at the time, you knew that there will be podcasts. There will be a podcast, and I will, it will be. I said to her, I said, I'm going to New York, and I'm going to make it. And it's going to happen pretty fast. I know it. Just remember this conversation.

I remember saying remember this conversation This isn't me dreaming This isn't me being full of shit I just know it And then I went And I busted my ass But a little while You know I always busted my ass

But then things started happening Within like two years Three years boom Out to L.A And then you call your friend and go Fuck you You owe me $100 now She listens

We actually didn't bet I should have I never bet you I never said you wouldn't I what? Who are? Fuck you Fuck you

No I didn't say know to that when you said that. Lex Lose Luzer just called me. Fuck you. You owe me. I don't know what I was getting at. But she, we actually were texting because she was listening to the podcast and she's like, Rosie, I didn't know all these things about you and how you, you know, you have these issues and she just texted me like two days ago.

It's funny talking about her. But I went, anyway, long story short, get me out to L.A., doing movies, TV. And all of a sudden, I hit around 40. And it's not, I don't know what it is. But everything's changing. One thing that's changed is that you actually did it and that, and you did it a lot. You got into cool shows and movies and you did them and you did more of them and more of them. And that's where you start to, that's where rich people, there's always rich people talking about meditation and Buddhism and shit.

And they're like so wealthy. And I know people in the Midwest, I know, but the point is. Tell me the point. And the people in the Midwest are like, yeah, fuck, you got nothing to do all day. So you could sit on your hands and stare at a space. But what's really going on is, well, they got everything they wanted, a lot of it. And they started to realize like, oh, well, I still feel crazy and nuts. And nothing makes me, I'm still not very happy.

And so then they have to look somewhere else for it. And that's all that's really happening. Right. But like I'm not. But you, but it's great to achieve. It is a wonderful thing to dream of something and want it and then actually get to experience it. Oh my God. It is the greatest thing. But it will leave you feeling like, oh, it's actually not enough. It's great. And I'm thankful. But obviously that actually, I thought that was going to be all that I wanted. But it's actually not. But I'm weird. It can fill you up an awful lot. It really can. And if you're smart, you'll accept it and be thankful and have some perspective on it. This is what I'm trying to say. I am incredibly grateful and really becoming the man I've always wanted to be or not sure I was.

You're looking at me. How dare you when I'm talking about something so profound or not. I'm kidding. But I think I am not, I don't have better call Saw Money. I don't have breaking bad money I don't have De Niro money I'm not that guy I'm not like the

I have a nice I have a nice house I'm fine I'm very grateful but I'm not like what you said I know but what does that even mean I'm trying to say is why is this

it's okay if this is just enough this is more than enough even though I said oh I'm gonna go do this but to actually be sitting and having a house yeah but being single there are a lot of other

their issues you're not remotely done I'm not remotely done but I'm really trying to find that next chapter because sometimes you do things because, oh, that's my money maimer. That's my money maimer. Yeah, it's my money maimer. It's my money. I need to maim my money. Or people just say, well, you're good. You should do that. And your agent's like, well, dude, you should be doing this. And I'm like, oh, okay. And you do what other people say and you kind of. Yeah. And you may, but then where do you kind of go, hey, I just, you know, I just want to keep doing, finding out what really makes me tick. I don't want to go back to.

Stay in the course for what you really want or what maybe you're really destined to be. I don't know what that is. I don't know if I want to really do acting as much. Are you saying that you had a big dream? I told you this is therapy. Are you saying you had a big dream? I think it's great.

I love it. Are you saying that you had a big dream and then you're wondering if another dream can come in that is as big and can drive you as hard? Yes. And I'm also saying... Because is that dream really what I really wanted deep down? Now that I'm finding myself and who I really am, obviously I'm grateful for all of it.

But I'm like, well, is this what you really love to love to do? I mean, you know, or is there something like helping people? In the last year, I've hands on. I've been just doing more charity. You and I go to food on foot, which is one of the best organizations I think around for homelessness. And, you know, I love it. And I love going there on Sundays. and I love being a club member.

Guys go to foodone foot.org. It's amazing. You'll learn all about it. But, you know, I love going to the Ronald McDonald's house. I love doing these things. They make me feel like I have purpose. Like, I'm, you know, I'm going in some kid who just wants to live, who wants to have this life. And I've talked about this ad nauseum.

But just to make him smile, just to make him forget about his life for a while or problems. And to be there and to like, you know, I'm going sat tomorrow. I'm taking a two hour drive. to go visit my buddy Preston. He's got cancer. And, you know, I'm going to hang with his family for the night. And I'm like, I'm excited about that.

I get a little emotional thinking about it. Yeah. And like, that's awesome. It doesn't mean I can't, you know, but like I like doing the podcast. I like doing charity. I like if it's the right thing. I like acting.

I like writing. I just, I'm still trying to, I mean, like shamling. That's what made me go, oh, my God. Well, look, Gary spent so many years searching for, I mean, yeah. Who he was and what motivated him and whether it was good or something better. And gosh, he struggled.

He did. Do you struggle or do you like, hey, man, you've got it. Like you've, you know, you got the wife. You got the kids. You got the success. And you're pretty like, hey, I'm happy. I get it. Gosh, everybody struggles, don't they?

What do you struggle with, though? Balancing, balancing work with your family? Balancing it. And asking yourself, what shit what can I do to I mean we're all obsessed with the news and one aspect of that is you you want to make the world a better place you want to make it better tomorrow what can we do what can you do about these problems and so there's a natural inclination some people would probably say that the last thing you should be looking at is the news I know because all it does is present problems to you that you cannot fix in any direct way. But what do I struggle with? It's got to be something.

You've got to have a... Probably a temper. I have a temper. I punched the printer today. That's so funny. My buddy last night punched his printer. I swear to God, his printer broke. He just bought the eight months ago.

Well, this fucking thing ain't broke. You just hit it for... It just doesn't work when it doesn't want to. Literally, this is how I work this fucking printer that's only a year old. It doesn't print. I go over to it. I press every button eight times. I just press them all, and then I wait, and then it prints.

And then today it wouldn't do it, even though I pressed every button. Was that the first time you hit it? No, I, yes, that was the first time I punched it. Do you feel bad? No, I mean, part of me was like, fuck you. I get to hit you if you won't work. Right. Did anyone hear you hit the printer?

No. Well, the dog did, but the dog was... but it's embarrassing no it's not why don't people do these things she'd be so mad at me what would she say what would she say exactly she would be so she would look at me like what you've lost your mind yeah you're dangerous you're printer hitters she'd look at me like you're dangerous and I'd be like what fuck this machine I can hit it fuck it I bought it I can do what is between you and me

This is between me and the printer. But, of course, that kind of rage is... You know Hewlett Packard? I do. It's not okay. What do you mean? It's not okay to hit a printer? It's not really okay to hit a printer. But it's especially not okay to do it in front of other people. Right. You don't hit...

Because then you're involving them. Anything you do in front of other people involves other people. Right. And your kids saw you lose your mind. If you're on the fucking phone, talking loud, I'm in your conversation. I get to talk. That's my theory on standing next to some asshole. who's like, tell that fuck her to fuck off.

What do you say to a guy in the plane when he's sitting behind you? I don't care. I don't know if I want to tell him that. Let's talk about this. Do you say that? I would. If it went on long enough, I would. And I have to be careful because I am kind of famous.

Yeah. So, but I still think about myself as not famous. So I think, fuck that guy. He's involved me in his conversation. I can hear what he's saying. He clearly wants me to hear it. He can see me standing right here. He wants people to know how.

I should pitch in. How important he is. No, no. I'm part of the conversation. You included me. And that's kind of, isn't that the case? I mean, if I do anything big enough, loud enough in front of you, I'm doing it with you. What if you say something, what if, for instance, you turn around in your seat in row 2A, it's an aisle, and you look at him and you say, hey, I'm not here.

Yeah. I'm not here. I'm not here. I'm not here. Right? And then he goes, fuck you. Then what do you do? Yeah.

That's the problem. Don't include me. Just pretend fuck you means I'm not going to tell. That's him saying, fuck you. I'm going to tell him you're here. That's right. You know what scares me is like, not scares me, but I get nervous watching it. When I watch you, I feel like your part's so difficult because you're always on your toes playing Saul and playing.

It's just like you have so many lines. I do. And that always scares me as an actor. And people always go, you always talk about lines on this podcast. Yes. because especially your fucking hard as shit The first and Breaking Bad When you first got those four episodes

And you couldn't do the fourth one Because you had some You had How I met your mother And then the fourth one They hired Mike Yeah Jonathan

To do that story point Right Created that character So he owes you 10% of his money Or So what I owe him What I'm saying is

The first thing you said In this interview I saw But you never finished it you go And they had all these lines And I'm like Oh they're gonna cut him Because it's comedy or whatever They didn't cut them

They didn't cut a fucking thing. They cut one word. They didn't cut. They changed one word. They literally, I was like, I wasn't even going to memorize it because you know comedy. I mean, comedy gets cut down to nothing or to, you know, to what you need. That's it. And I also hadn't read it closely enough to see what was going on in all that dialogue.

I kind of summarized it in my head like he's telling him, I'll be your lawyer and I'm a liar and all this shit. And you could just cut it down to those lines, you know? And then I got the rewrites. I got the blue pages, which was about four days before we were shooting. And how much dialogue was this? I'd say it was a good solid two pages. Two pages of dialogue. Maybe it was a page and a half solid.

But you weren't nervous. I was a little nervous. You aren't nervous. Yeah, there's a lot. It was more dialogue. And that was just one, there was more than that. But at one point, there was a page and a half run of just me talking. And do you always fear my biggest fears

when they get faster, faster about people. You're not even used to seeing that in comedy. I've rarely seen a comedy script that was one person talking for a page. Oh, God, biggest, yeah. It's usually back and forth and stuff. So one word was changed and I dug in and I had no tools to learn that except what I think what I learned from writing, which is to break it down to the story.

at the core of it that I'm telling and the bullet points of that and then build back out from there. Do you write the lines down? Does it help you memorize? Are you a visual guy? So you'll say, you'll look at them and just copy them.

On the page, now I've done this for a couple years now and I'm better at it. And one thing that's true, and I think see what you think about this, but usually about two weeks into a season that my brain just starts getting better at this. It's just a bit of a muscle in your brain. And the more you do it, the better, you quicker you get at.

You're kind of amazing. So the first episode, give yourself a break. It's the hardest one. Right. And then once you get going, it's going to get better. It's going to get easier. Yeah, I have a lot of confidence in myself to do this now. But on one side of the script is the specific words and phrases doing, you know, the highlighting points as I go, the things that I think matter.

And on the other side of the script is the emotions. and maybe the subtext. Highlighting points. I mean like... Like words. Like a word that sticks out as I go. Oh, okay. Like that really stand out to me that give me those...

Break so that your memory clicks into it. And the other side is the undercurrent of emotion or thrust of what I'm saying, the kind of more general drive of the scene. You're a little annoyed here. This guy's fucking you over. Yeah. And a lot of times saw that. in particular, a scene with Saul, he's conning someone. So his words are a diversion in some weird way or a kind of a subterfuge. And on the right side, it'll be, you know, what that subterfuge is actually meant to do. You know? And then, and then it's just work it. You don't have to record it? Yeah, I record the other person's side. So you could deliver it and give a space in between. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I'm pretty good at that.

Can you do that in the car or just in the plane? I try not to do it in the car because, I mean, if I'm driving, it's distracting. It's distracting, yeah. But we do a lot of rehearsal on Saul. And in fact, in Albuquerque, the cast, we share a house. I heard about that. And who is it? We work Ray Sehorn, Patrick Fabian, when he's in town, Josh Fadham.

Isn't it your house that you bought? Yeah, my wife and I bought a house. But before that, we rented a house together, the three of us, Ray and Patrick and me. I've never heard of that, that people want to, the last thing people want to do when they work together. When I did small, but when I do other shows, I love them. I'm on set with them all day. I'm like, I love you. Fuck off.

Well, I mean, you're going home with these people. I know, but. I know, but it's better than being alone out there. I think we all feel that way. That's my whole life. I think we're pretty great at leaving each other alone. too you know and and we're not in every scene together and uh and i leave people travel i come home as much as possible so and you know it's i love getting home and somebody's Patrick especially will

make dinner for everybody an energy there's an energy there's like i'm going hiking let's go because you know what if you're alone bob you're probably get in your head a little won't you yeah i would get in my head i go home alone i'm alone what am i going to do maybe i should learn my lines. Maybe you should do this. There's almost pressure. You're like worrying too much now. Yeah. There's an energy. Someone's cooking. Someone's watching this. Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Maybe that's why I don't like being alone. I always

like people around. Well, that's good. That's perfectly fine. I think you should be able to be alone. Yeah. I can do that. As long as I'm cleaning or organizing. I'm pretty good at being alone. Are you? Uh-huh. How long can you be alone? A long time. Not with a printer. Obviously, don't leave me alone. That was a low blow, dude.

Yeah, because one of us won't walk out of there. Tell me this. Tell me that Vince Gilligan, when they write the lines, that those are the lines. They don't change them on you. I try not to change a single word. I mean changing your dialogue when you're about to shoot. Oh, yeah, they don't change it.

See, that's a blessing. There's nothing worse than going to have all these dialogue. I've heard about this. I've never experienced it myself. I'll tell people fuck off. I can't do it. heard about this. It's crazy to me. Shows where they show up

on the day of shooting and go, throw out that scene, here's a new scene. No. No, we don't do anything remotely like that. We have the scene in stone five days before, sometimes three days before, but oftentimes a week and a half before. And when do you rehearse? On the day? Oh, no. We rehearse all leading up to...

Wait a minute. Wait a minute. This is unheard of us. You rehearsed for two weeks. I get as as soon as we have a script, I want it. it. We start rehearsing. If I have a big scene, I start rehearsing that day, if it's two weeks away. I live in a house with Patrick and Ray and Josh maybe and Mando comes over and Banks will even come over and you run it. And we run the scene, a scene that I'm in or maybe I'll run a scene with you that you're in. We rehearse the shit out of that show. And then if I can, I'll go to the fucking set when they're not there. Walk around it.

And I'll do the scene. Dude, I love that. Because that's sort of what I would probably, that's, I've done that where I show up. Part of that is because we only have nine days to shoot an episode. And to shoot that kind of dialogue heavy show. 50 pages, 55 pages. Yeah.

In nine days, you can't do it if people show up and don't know their lines. And the other reason we need to learn our lines is they matter. Like literally, there will be some little weird thing buried in the middle of your line that looks like nothing, but then a year later is like, remember when he said this small thing? That's why I killed himself. You know, like every word, almost every word. Occasionally I'll call them, especially if there's comedy with my character,

sometimes has scenes that are almost pure comedy. And then they have a lot of flexibility there. They also give me a lot of room to mess around. They'll come to them and go, this is clearly a funny thing. Can I do this and this? And they'll give me a lot of freedom. most of what's written in Better Call Saul, and it was true of Breaking Bad, is like, no, no, that's that word for a reason.

That's there. Because the other word doesn't work because you don't know because three weeks from now, you're going to get a script and you'll see that because he said it that way, it shows that he doesn't really know who he's talking to and he doesn't really know what's going on. And if you said it the other way, then it wouldn't be the same meaning. And so they've thought about every way ahead of time. Now, but you said you need the time to learn lines, but you're talking about rehearsing two weeks before an episode, but aren't you going to go right into another episode? Even at the end of the season when they get backed up on writing, you're still going to get that script five days before you're shooting.

So you're still shooting the other ones. Yeah. So during the day, when you already know stuff, you'll run it. Yeah. You'll do that. You'll do after work because there's not a lot of time. So you're exhausted. You're working all the time.

You're exhausted. You're working. Have you ever hit a wall where you're like, yes. In the first season. In the first season, well, first of all, I was in every scene, except for one episode I wasn't in at all. But in every other thing, I was in every scene. It was fucking nuts.

Did you complain? Listen, I approached this whole thing like, oh, I guess I'll just have more lines. It's the same job acting. I'm not going to pretend it's different. Oh, boy. And while I was diluting myself a little bit, compartmentalizing and diluting myself. but then you know it was just a fuckload of words and I just dug in and got to it and got to it and gave it up my all and they kept pushing my call and people don't know what that means but they kept pushing is if he has to wake up at eight like you know they're working later in the night so the next day they push it from 8 to 9 a.m. to 10 a.m. And they just kept pushing my call like.

And they also say will you which basically means you're not getting enough sleep and you also don't have time to rehearse which I said we do and I was using. to doing for Breaking Bad and wanted to carry on and better cross all. And you're doing 12 hour days too, right? And you're doing 12 hour, 14 hour days? So your 12 round turnaround. It's called the 12 hour like a turnaround.

Sometimes they'd say, hey, do you mind if we force you so the crew doesn't have to do this? And they would say, do you mind if we force you? Do mind if we force you? And I would sign it every time. And you're like, I can't anymore. I was so thankful that we were making this show. And I didn't want anyone to have any problem

because of me. Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'll just, I'll just work harder. I kept asking the AD. like can I can I say no because they would always say this was the real shitty thing is they would never say you don't have to do this they didn't no they would always say hey we need you to we need to force your call so we need to we need to do it for blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and then they look at me and I'd be like well no compassion well no like okay you need we'll do it I guess like like

In other words, they would, I know, they would never present it to me that way. It was like, we need to. And it's like, I think you're just informing me of what you need to do. Right, let me ask you, Bob, if I would have to say. All right, you don't have to tell me that even. Why do you even have to tell me that? The way you're talking is so weird. You don't have to tell me that.

Just give me the sheet that says I have to wake up earlier. And then a couple weeks into that, and I was getting really fatigued and I lost my voice. And I was like, can I, are you asking me? Are you telling me? And even when I'd say that question, they would go, well, it's just that we can't make, they wouldn't answer the question. It was driving me fucking crazy. I've never seen that, yeah. And then finally, I found an AD, this is like week six or seven, an episode like five, where they were going to force the weekend call.

That's your only time to rest. Like, in other words, we were shooting until around 7 a.m. on Saturday morning. Right, Friday in the Saturday, 7 p.m. Starting Friday at like 6 p.m. We shot until Saturday at 7 a.m. So you really have barely a day. And then Monday we start at 5.30 a.m.

I hope you fired this first AD. So we need to force your call, the weekend call. You can't have your 36 hours. That's when you put your foot down. That was the point where I said, can I say no? And this person looked at me and said, I think the crew would really appreciate it if you said no

wow because the crew's dying too they're fucking dying they're fucking slave and they must think I'm an asshole for saying yes to this over and over and over and I'm like I thought I had to say yes

you didn't even offer it to me as a question and so I said well fucking no then and then I got on top of it from that point out I was like oh no okay hold on a second and then that same next week you know, the job of a producer in this business is to shoot as much as possible and as little time as possible, the line producers, to save money.

So that's their job. They're doing their job if you're back as against the wall. Right. And they are doing their job. But if you can't do a good job because they've jammed too much in, then they're not doing their job. So they've got to find that line, right? Yeah.

And these producers had not yet found that line. So it was a Monday. I shot my stuff. I looked at my script. I had already had a couple of conversations where I said, you guys have to give me time to do these things well, to learn them. I'm going to give it my all, but you've got to give me time. And I looked at my script, and I had 30 pages of dialogue for the next four days.

And you didn't know it? And you know Saul talks. If I have a page of dialogue with Jimmy McGill, Saul, he's talking for three quarters of that page. It's not just a normal character who might have two lines on a page. He has five lines or five breaks and 15 lines or more, every page. Anxiety attack. He talks a lot. How did you not have an anxiety attack?

I did. I was all fucked up. I was all fucked up. I didn't even realize it. And you know, we were talking about dogs out here. Oh, my God. That first year I was shooting, Saul, I got home and my wife and daughter had picked out a fucking awesome dog that I love so much named Olive.

and I just spent the next four months every day, all day, hanging around with that dog. Saved you. It saved me. I had no idea what dogs do for you, can do for you. And then you can read about it. I know. I know there's been like studies on it and shit.

But oh my God, I was with that dog all the time after that first season. And still do hang out with her all I can. but oh my god she she just was like uh medicine you know for the the degree of stress and kind of uh tension that i kind of made my way through my dog uh blanche so every time i'm writing and i'm up at night late yeah she'll she won't take she won't have it after a while she will jump on me with her paws right and you look at this cute little face and it completely saves me i just hugger and take 10 or 15 minutes to just hang out and go, you're right. What am I doing?

Yeah. You're in my life. Blanche. Sometimes when I'd be writing, I'd be like, I'd get mad. Motherfucker, hit something. My dog will run right over to me and put a pause up on my. What is it? What?

What happened? I love you. And I'm like, I'm not mad at you. I'm not, I'm just mad at my brain. It's not, don't worry. It's okay. No, it's okay, bud. Yeah.

You're reminded of it. Like, calm down. You know, I want to ask you this. Did things, just quickly, did things get better when you became a success? You're like, all right, here's a deal. I'm not getting forced. I want a week off every three weeks to kind of regroup. You know, it's weird.

It's like the overcompensation went the other way on the part of the producers. They would just be so freaked out. And now we're at a place where I go like, do you guys need to force my call? Because it's okay. Really? I'm rested up. Yeah, I hear. I, you know, you overhear them talking about, shit, we're getting late and, well, how are we going to make tomorrow?

And, like, I'll be like, well, I don't need, I can get here in time. Don't worry. And so now it's gotten to the other side where just to ask me. Right. And I'll tell you, honestly, don't be afraid to ask me. But also, when I say no, just say, okay, thanks for whatever. Now doing it. It's so dumb.

Actors, future actors. That whole ass half hour is only for you And I'm sorry for everyone else Now do the impression of Mike With Jonathan Banks Do an impression of him being asked to get Forrest call Can't do it What do you mean?

We need to do it tomorrow Fuck you Fucking tired I'm fucking tired Actually he'd probably say yes Because he'd bitch But then he'd say yes Because he can do it

Because he's just a fucking Hank who can just do it. I love watching that guy. He can do, he's just one of these guys, one of these great lifetime actors who's just spent his whole life acting the shit out of everything. Are directors timid around him? Do I give him direction? Could you mean?

What do you want to fuck of it? They should be because he'll bite you down. He will? Have you seen it? Oh, many times. Have you ever said, hey, Jonathan, you know. I'm saying the lies. That's the way it's coming out.

out. Like what I, you know, I'll fucking get it right. Because he's frustrated himself. That's what I do. He's frustrated with himself. I go, God, what's the fucking thing? But also, he has less of purity towards the lines than I do now. Partly that might be because his character is kind of more straightforward than Saul. A lot of times, my lines are written in a weird circuitous way that on the surface maybe it just needs to be said that weird way. Right.

Whereas his lines, you could change him up a little and it wouldn't change anything. He's telling people to flog off and... This is the way it's going to be. I'm not doing this. I'm not doing that or whatever. Yeah. He's a straightforward character and you have there's, it's not as hard to change those lines a bit. You're colorblind.

I am. I don't, I don't know, blue, green, orange, shit like that. Were you the same kids? See, I didn't find that because I failed our class. I got paddled. I was called dumb. I thought I just had a learning disability, which I probably did. But I didn't find out until freshman year of high school and I was Mr. Irwin's biology class.

And Dusky right out sitting next to me. And I go, hey, they go, turn to page 78. If you don't see a sailboat in a number nine in the circles, come up to class your codelblind. I go, to Dusky, I don't see it. Michael Rosenbaum's colorblind. You fucking bitch. What's the, what is it? matter. Well, I didn't know. I thought, I mean, to me, as a child, a 14-year-old boy,

yeah, colorblind. Oh, I thought it was kind of neat. Neat. I'm like, oh, my gosh, I have, this is a learning disability, this is a disability. Something's wrong with me. It's another thing that's wrong with me. I don't have hair on my balls, and now I'm colorblind. I had a hair on my balls and still do. See, there you go. But, um, I don't know, uh, it's embarrassing when you don't know the colors. I didn't feel that way. My dad, I remember we're getting tennis. I thought it was neat because I thought it was neat that you looked at the thing and you're like, God, I can't see it. That's so weird. That's kind of amazing. Do you, when you see a traffic light, right? What's the bottom one? You know it's green, but what do you see? White? Well, it's not, yes, it's white. Right? Yes,

it's white. Yes. People don't understand that. Yeah, it's white. But how green is it? I mean, I guess my question would be, is it really green at all, or just slightly green? I know grass is supposed to be green. Grass is kind of orangey. Blue? Is that, I know the sky's blue. I can't dress myself. My assistant Jess is like, you know, that's purple.

I'm like, that's blue. I can't dress myself because I don't care enough to pay attention. But if I do pay attention, I do okay. Okay, still not great. Do you question the costume designer? Sometimes I, if I'm going to an event, I will sometimes put something together every time. And I will go to my wife or somebody who's there and say,

how is this? Is this okay? And I'll get some. My publicity person is very helpful in that way. And I'll bring an option to wear if it's like a talk show. Say we always have to bring options in case. Yeah, because they might go, what the fuck do you think you're doing? My shoes?

I don't know with like, oh, can I wear brown with that? I don't. Yeah. It all looks okay. me i wear things and she's like oh my god what do you know does it ever feel weird to you the degree to which you can be an outrageous dresser so for instance uh do you know who billy porter is yeah he's on pose no no no wrong porter do you know billy porter yeah yeah great hi ryan welcome to the conversation no it was the was the grimmies who wore that hat with the the blinds

on it yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah really is a great actor and and a really nice person. I got to do an interview scenario with him, and he's just awesome. I mean, he's, you got to get him in here. He's fucking great. Yeah. And he's got stories because success came to him later,

and he earned it so hard. And just a great guy, really likable person. And what were you saying about colorblind? There's something to do that. No, I was just saying, I'm asking you, because we're talking about getting dressed for shit. and like he wears like big hats and dresses and like you and I bland as hell right but jeans but the fact is we couldn't do that not just because we have no

sense of it but like if you were let's say you had a PR person who's like we're going to make you are going to get your picture and variety at the at the Emmys this year because we're going to dress you so that it's worth fucking printing okay if you were a black tuxedo, there's no point in putting that picture in the paper. It's your fucking head, which we've seen. Right. And a black tuxedo, which we've all seen. So there's no point in publishing your picture. There's nothing about it. You can just list at your name that you were there. And we know what that would look like. Right. Right. But let's say your publicist said to you, you're going to wear a dress. Men are wearing dresses now. Sure.

You're going to wear a dress with a big, crazy hat. You mean, you couldn't do it because no one would go, oh, that's cool. Wow, look what he wore. He really made a, he really made an entrance. They'd be like, what the fuck? Who are you? Even though they don't really know you well enough to decide that that doesn't mean anything to you in the same way, it might mean something to Billy or anyone else. Right. Right? Yeah. You know what's funny? So what's that about? I don't know. What's going on there? I don't know. And I just, I just can't compete with that. I think it's a subject for to curb your enthusiasm. I think we found a good...

I think that what you were on, of course. A good plot for Larry David. You know, about four months ago, they did some article on me, and then they go, hey, and I came there and he had this suit, and it was like tweet and like this different colors. And I go, and I go, does this really look good? And they're like, yeah, you look great. So I said, fuck it. I'll do it.

Yeah. And they took pictures of me. I couldn't believe. I posted a picture of me in this cool suit for the first. first time, dude, you fucking need to dress like this all the time. So people like that. You look great. Yeah. I can't wear suits every day. I can't look like that every day. It's just I'm so comfortable and look at me. I don't know what the hell of this is. Here's what I think. Here's what I think. Go ahead. Think. We are lazy and we don't really give a shit. Not about that. Right.

But why shouldn't we do make a little effort? We don't need to go as far as Billy. But why don't we just go, the nicer shirt costs three times what our shirt costs. But we can afford that. Maybe four. We can afford it. So fucking your pictures being taken, put something on that's cool to look at for me, for the audience, for the people. I agree. But what I would need is to, for somebody.

To tell you it actually. I would say I need you to put Monday through Sunday from socks and underwear to shoes, everything together. It's automatically not worth it. It's just there. I'm going to go take it up the rack and wear it. Not worth it. Because garan animals. Do you remember that?

No. You don't remember that? I do remember. Why don't I know gar animals? I was actually... Isn't the 80s? It was like a thing where it was clothes for little kids where... Garan animals.

You know, if you had a shirt that had a little zebra on a tag, then you wore it with... Wasn't there a song? I don't know. You wore it with pants that also had a zebra on the tag. and then you knew they went together. There's got to be a song. Find the song, right? They got to bring that back.

Gere animals. Or middle-aged white guys. Gere animals. You think we work well? I think you and I'd be great spokesman for it. I think so. Look it up, Ryan. I need a sponsor.

Let's bring it back. I got to get into this because I thought I was going to talk to you about this more. Chris Farley, my favorite comedian of all time. No one makes me laugh. I will argue to anybody. People go, oh, balusie, this. I don't think you put Farley in the same room as any these guys. There's nobody that makes

me laugh as hard as possible with almost everything he does. And the best fucking thing, and nobody probably knows this, except if you're in the industry, is you created motivational speaker, Matt Foley. Well, actually a lot of people know it. But thank you. Well, no, I think

a lot of people in the industry know it. Yeah, it's been a lot. It's been a yammered about a lot. And I, and I, look, the truth is, I am really proud of it because I did write it pretty much exactly the way he performed it. And I wrote it alone in my apartment in Chicago. And Chris had done a version of the character in an improv like the night before. But none of the story of the script or none of

nothing. He was a lot of doobie roll. None of that shit was in there. You know, I'd seen a version of the character. And it's such a performance heavy thing. So I'll share credit on inventing the thing because he did that a version of that character and that inspired my brain. So your brain wrote, you create the, well,

the story of it, the scenario, it was all me. Lives in a van down by the river. But this guy, I mean, he, it was the greatest thing

I ever was a part of, I think, just pure, simple one thing. My daughter once asked me, what's the best thing you ever did? And I said, doing that,

writing that scene and doing, it eight times a week at Second City. Because like you, I feel like there was nothing greater than seeing Chris be funny and act. And I was on stage with him because I played the dad in the scene. And so to have him do that right in front of you every night. And by the way, different every night, a little different every night, every single night, he would not quit until he made you laugh, until he made everyone on stage laugh. and the audience came along.

And boy, I'll never forget it. It was the greatest thing. And when it was happening, you're like, this is the greatest thing I've ever, I'll ever do. Yeah. Even, you know, I'm glad you said that because I think it's like, if I'm in a bad mood, I know that I put that best of SNL Chris Farley on

and I watch the motivational speaker. I watch, and I memorize that whole thing. I, you know, I was like, I am a skinny Farley. I would and I got a chance to hang I was good friends with Kevin and Johnny I got to hang out with Chris I got to really you know and I was just when he passed

I was just as were many but I write about him a lot in my memoir which is coming out in about a year and a half and I'm sorry to come back right before it comes out sure yes got him on film yeah I write about him a lot

because what is it Right. What is it that you, is it emotional when you write it? Well, some of it is. I don't know. Some of it's kind of sad. And I don't know how you felt about it, but you say you knew them or you got to be with them a bit. Well, I mean, I got to hang out with them a couple times with, you know, those guys and spend some time. But it was always funny and laughing and drinking. It wasn't, you know, I know that the demons and I know from his brothers and I know, you know. I think the hardest part for me was just, we just. My father was an alcoholic, and I learned a lot about alcoholism when I was young because my mom took me to Al-Anon, which is a great thing to attend if you have an alcoholic in your family. Family members of people with alcoholism can meet and talk about the things they're going through. And the hardest part was how just how inevitable it all felt.

Everything in Chris's story, the way it played out. You just knew. Well, people talked about it for years and years. This is going to happen than that and then this and then that. And then that's what happened. Did you ever tell them? I fucking hated it. It made me so mad.

Because the one thing you don't want your life to be is a cliche. You don't want to, you just, right? I mean, that's me. Yeah, that's what I say, but that's how I feel about. I want to do something that surprises me and you about everything, about the choices I make, really surprises. And not just live some fucking boring, overtold story that has, that's just a hackneyed cliche. And his fucking story just played out like somebody could have written it when he was 25. It's just horrible.

Was it just like this feeling of like... I mean, he could have written it. he just didn't love himself ultimately for sure I can relate to that I think that a lot of people can relate to that A lot of people can relate to that you know and so what do you do You act out you try to be funny

You try to do this everybody loves me And like we were talking about earlier It's like how it's like you know I think his brother Wrote a great book about him You know that book What's the book about Chris that his brother wrote Not I am It's great and if you have a family member

member who's alcoholic, the book about Chris is really good to read. Because while in a general terms, it was a cliche journey. And that really pissed me off more than anything. In specifics, you know, there was a lot of struggle that went on. And there were moments that looked like he would be all right. What's the name of the book? Is it the Chris Farley show, a biography in the reaction? Yeah, the Chris Farley show. Yeah, I didn't read that. And you get to some of the ends. and outs. But Chris had some moments where he might have pulled it off. He might have gotten out of that. Did he ever come to

you for help? Or did he ever... No, he never came to me for help. No. I did see him at a party once in Hollywood not drunk and not drinking. He was with Spade and it was at somebody's fucking apartment. I don't even know

who was like jam packed with people and... I bet that made you happy. And I couldn't believe it. I was like, Chris, you're not drinking? Nope. and he meant it and he was strong and he looked great like you know look in his eye and strength and I was like holy shit this is fucking great he's gonna fucking make it yeah whatever he'd been to rehab you know seven times by then and what what it finally clicked good great and that's the guy that I think everybody was rooting for pull it together yeah I really only saw that one time

that was the only time you remember seeing him so I ever saw the look in his eye But at least I saw it once, and it gave me hope. But other than that, you either got him fucked up or him in that other mode of like, I'm a fucking idiot. I'm fucked up again. I'm so sorry. Like, this is a show. This is a stop, stop.

You're fucking putting on a show for me. It's weird. You're standing right there. I'm not in an audience. I'm a person. Don't fucking put on a. play for me right and and it was just ugh gross yeah and that's those that's all you got and uh and it was sad as fuck because he was such a good person and his goodness and his heart and a great

came out in in everything he he did and uh and you just could it was palpable you know you could just feel it you know do you ever get like uh you since you did comedy your whole life you're like doing you always doing comedy writing sketches you're doing Conan you got you By the way, my buddy Harlan, I told you, you are buddy. Harlan said you just came up to him after we performed. Harlan Williams, you know, dumb and dumber. My buddy, sorority boys, nobody saw it.

But anyway, you went up to him and you're like, hey, you want to be in Conan O'Brien? He's like, well, hey, yeah, sure, but. And you got him on Conan O'Brien. You're that guy, though. That doesn't happen. I think some of my friends still think that happens where, you know, somebody just will walk up

maybe in their apartment while they're lying on the couch doing nothing, saying, hey, you're the guy we're looking for. Well, you know, I love to do that. you know, see somebody and see some place that where they could show what they do something great and try to help make that happen. Sometimes it happens. Sometimes it doesn't.

But I've been lucky enough to pull it off a few times. Yeah. But you can't help yourself, right? You go like, I know where this person should be. And, you know, it's a tough business. And if you can give somebody a shortcut, either advice or just a connection to make, you should do it. It's fucking hard as fuck.

And a lot of really talented people, to some extent, they're just waiting in line. I mean, you just got to wait. Just keep doing what you're doing. You're just in line. They'll get to you. But if you can shorten that line, you should try to do it.

When do you say you're too old? When do you say maybe you don't have what it takes? Maybe do you ever say that? You just have to let them figure that out. Well, I think that the big, big key is if the thing itself is still satisfying to you look you can always want for more you know but if sometimes you meet actors and they clearly are sick of acting they're like pissed off about it about making an effort or showing up and it's like well just go

do something else. I mean, if the thing itself is not making you happy, that's a, that's the math you have to do as far as like, am I too old? Am I all I make it? Will I still get more? Get what I deserve. Are you happy when you go to set? Are you excited about the day? Yeah. I have an amazing job. I have the best, I can't imagine a better acting job than better call soul. I mean, there's no, I have a page that's pure comedy. And then two pages later is intense, personal drama, very well written, really, you know, the character has matured, which has been just the greatest thing ever. There's a scene in the last week's episode of Better Call Saul that's silent. I mean, there's like, what?

There's like four lines, but it's me and Ray as Kim. And it's mostly silent. and it's just it's there can there will never be I can't imagine a role that's as good as what I have so I have to just be very thankful that I get to do it do you are you surprised if you looked at like 14 year old Bob Odenkirk and freaking Illinois or whatever what yeah there's that Gary Shandling thing again that yeah yeah I'm from Arizona who the hell am I what I'm thinking is not even that everybody in Hollywood's from somewhere what the fuck does that mean I mean, Jerry's right in that instance, but I relate to Gary.

Of course. But Jerry, most people do. And that's why he's Jerry. But what I'm saying is, you always, for a long time, thought comedy. I'm always going to do comedy. Well, here's the thing. And that's funny, because you were talking about I'm going to be big one day. I'm going to make it.

I never said that to anyone. Never. But I also didn't, you may have some shared feelings on this. but I never thought about it that way. I just didn't. I knew I wanted to make enough money to pay the bills. When I was 21 and I decided to try to do this, I said, if I haven't made enough money to eat and have an apartment doing this by the time I'm 30,

then I'm going to look for something else to do. But I have until I'm 30, I'm going to give myself nine years where it's not about, making it I'm just going to do what I'm just going to focus on the work what I love which I love to do and and then secondarily if I make enough money and I'm 30 then I'll stay in the business if I don't then I will then that's the rule I have to look at it and look for something else but are you surprised that you have become this phenomenal dramatic actor from from like a comedy writer and comedy actor who was doing, did you ever honestly think that one day I'm going to get Critic Choice Awards? Of course not. No, of course I didn't think that, not at all. But here's

what I did think. And I talk about this in my book, too. The one time I was on stage with Chris, Chris Farley and Jill Talley at Second City. So I was a couple of years into my comedy career. I had already been a writer at Saturday Night Live for three years. And we were doing an improv. and you know how when you do a show a lot like on stage at second city you're on stage eight times a week eight shows a week your brain can really like you can think about what you have to buy at the grocery store you can think about something you have to do tomorrow you really can go you can kind of compartmentalize what you're doing because you spend so hours on stage right right right and uh i don't know this stray thought came into my head that like i should try to do drama

one day. I'm on stage doing a scene. And it's improv, by the way. Like, we're making, I better pay attention. But I just had this weird thought. I'm looking at the audience and they're looking at Farley. And I don't blame them. I would be too.

And I'm like, if I was in a drama, what would that feel? I'd be pretty fucking great. How old were you? I would have been about 27. So you thought there was that moment where I could do this. And what it was was like a thought of. I think I boil it down to, like, comedy has, I think comedy, this is my bullshit theory. You guys ready? Comedy 101.

That goes. Because this is Comedy 104, 20, 20, 20, 305. You're a junior in college now studying comedy. Okay. The bullshit theory is that comedy is kind of appreciative and rewarding of simple energy. Like Chris. You just love them. You smile the second he walks in front of you.

I think a lot of comedy actors have this quality. I think Will Ferrell. I think Sandler, although Sandler can get complicated. This thing he did last year is amazing. Oh, the Netflix special? No, the movie with the Safdi Brothers, uncut gems. Oh, I thought that was one of the best performance of the year. I do.

That was the hardest performance. To me, when I watched it, I tweeted, he liked it. but I tweeted him and I said this is the most I here when I watch a performance yeah I think sometimes as an act you sit there could I do that yeah I go you know what I could do it my own way and I could be great at that he's great I'm not knocking it and there are some performances I go I can't do that I couldn't do what he just did that was sandler's performance yeah couldn't do that yeah I agree me too and yours well I agree with kind of that same kind of character I was like I don't even want that guy. That's too hard. In a wide of ways, it's built for me. It's, it is. There you go. There's

you got it for me. You know, but a lot, I think comedy kind of rewards a simple, simpler energy that you bring where the audience, the person watching can kind of know that person quickly, like that. And I think drama rewards a certain degree of complication where the person, where you're like, I don't know if this guy's a good guy or a bad guy. I don't know. I think he's being funny, but, and I think that I probably bring more of that kind of energy in front of people. And just from doing a lot of comedy and being around people like David Cross,

who's so funny, and Jay Johnson and Chris and Jack Black, and people who are just, you just smile when you see them and you just laugh. And to mention some women, Jill Talley. and Mary Lynn Rice Cub, although she can do drama too, it turns out. But I just had this weird brain fart that I think I'm, I think I fit maybe in this other world, maybe I might better. I never pursued it.

I certainly, I certainly, I'm, and that's the weird part, right? He didn't pursue it. I did audition for roles if they were offered to me to audition for. I auditioned for a couple Alexander Payne roles. And, and of course, Larry Sanders kind of. rode this line between comedy and drama. But I never pursued it. Right.

Because the life of an actor is so fucking hard. And you really are, you really can't do your job unless someone says you can do your job. Unless you get in an acting company and you guys put on plays and you decide what plays you're going to put on and you put yourself in them, you don't get to decide if you get to act. and that always looked like a sucky scenario to me. Whereas a writer can't make people buy your shit, but you can just do your fucking job for free. Take out the paper and go to work.

And if it's good enough, you can hope that over time you'll sell it, but at least you get to do it. At the very least, you get to do it. And no one can stop you. And it's as close to writing as a successful person. It's the same job as a person who's a person who's, successful. You sit down with the paper and you try to clarify and deliver drama or comedy or whatever it is you're doing. And you get to do your fucking job without having to ask somebody,

is it okay for me to do my job today? Would you let me? And that, so I never pursued acting because of that aspect of it. Because I, it just, the idea of having to get permission just no fucking way. I'm going down that road. I love it. This is a, this, we're going to finish up with this is what I call.

My patrons, they have, the patrons have, it's called shit talking with Rosamumum. These are just questions from fans real quick. You answer them quickly.

You don't have to like linger on it. Real quick, Bob says, can you name a childish thing you still find enjoyment in? Throwing a baseball. Is it riding a bike? I love riding a bike.

Makes you feel young again. I love it. Robert, would you ever consider attending different comic cons as a guest from meat and grease with fans as well as fans of better call selling Breaking Bad. I don't think I would. I don't think I would.

Really? Yeah. Why is that? Not your thing. It's just not my thing. I just don't perceive it as a meaningful thing to do. But what if fans all over the world who never could meet you can meet you? What good is that going to do them?

They're going to love it. They're worthless. They're like, oh my God. A waste their time. But not to them. I go to these conventions. I'm just going to say here, I'm not saying, You're not knocking it.

I get that. You're saying it's not for you. I'm saying when I go, people all over the world or whatever, they get to meet you. And you hang out. And I always give it going above and be on. And I think it's a great thing for it. I enjoy them. They enjoy them.

Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. There's nothing wrong with it. I saw, you know, a person who I, whose work I like, John Cleese, I saw he was doing a tour. And, you know, he just talks about his career. You know, I saw a lot of some older actors. I think Pacino did this, too. That's great.

I mean, I would want to go see Pacino talk about his career and Cleese too, you know, so I see the value of it. I just, I guess for now, I'd say I don't really think I'd do it. All right. Amy, was there ever a character you play that you really connected with? Yeah, Ben Bagdickian in The Post. I felt like he was a lot like me. And then I got to know some people later who knew Ben Bagdickian, the reporter who got the Pentagon Papers. and he sounded more like me than I even knew.

So, kudos. He swore a lot. He got pissed off a lot. He was driven. He was kind of a purist. And, and, uh, yeah. Spielberg just knew you were the guy. Well, I guess so.

But I feel like I connect to that guy more than anybody I've played. Emily, what was it like to be on the office? Oh, it was a joy. I mean, listen, that to me, that, That's the most fun kind of acting, a curvyer enthusiasm and the office where you get to improvise around a funny comedy idea and with a few lines from the writers, maybe a structure, and then you get to improvise, just nothing better. And it's kind of based in reality, right?

So you're sort of, it's not super broad. Did they say you got about make it like three or four minutes? We don't have a lot of time here. Yeah, you just do multiple takes and then they give you advice on shortening it or speeding it up right right right but it's the most fun have you done it have you had a show improvise a little yeah yeah there's been something like rosy go on this one you know just that you guys just start yeah but i mean like a show like curb no i haven't got to do that i'd love to do that one day it's the most fun you can have doing this although second or equal to that is um fighting in an action movie is really fun you like to

fight you like getting physical it's the most fun It's just, I'm just saying it's super fun. You know, I like action. I like doing that stuff. You choreograph it. You learn it. You get in good shape. And then it's a bunch of people all chipping in.

There's always last minute changes that you have to make, even though you choreograph this thing. And there's an excitement to achieving it, to doing the moves and getting them right. And like, it's hard to do and you have to work together to do it. And it's just a real group. effort. It involves your brain and your body. So it's everything. You're just completely focused. It's a real hoot. I love it. Raj, from your time on SNL, do you remember writing any skits you thought were hilarious but didn't make it past the pitch meetings or rehearsals?

There was one really, really dumb sketch that I wrote. And John Lovitz was for John Lovitz. And Lovitz always remembered it too. And he always brought it up to me. I don't, I'm not guaranteeing it was good. But in my mind, I thought it was pretty good. It was about a hot dog vendor who has a trainee. And he keeps blowing up at the trainee. Like, don't get put mustard on it? What are you doing? When the person walks away, well, I don't know. You ask for a month. You don't put it on right away. And he's like, the guy who's training him is trying to figure out reasons why it's not so easy to do. When it's, there's no... there's nothing to train.

It's like Mickey training Rocky, but for a hot dog. It's like, you know, you'd handle this guy and do it right this time. And then like, is sir and this? And he puts it on and looks at the guy and gives it to him. And then the guy walks away and what the hell was that? What? You know, and then he's, it's like, it was kind of pure performance, which is great on Saturday Night Live. Oh, yeah.

And it was really funny in, uh, in read through. But I think that probably Lauren just thought. Oh, it's just extremely dumb. How many extremely... But that could be really funny. How about the hurley kid? How about, I mean, talk about, can I sleep in your bed? Please let me sleep.

Will you sleep? Let the boy sleep in your bed. Yeah. He's a good boy. Come on. The best, idiot. Yeah. Yeah.

Jerry, can you tell us a fun behind-the-scenes story from either breaking bad or better call Saul that no one's heard? A fun behind the scenes. I don't know, something. If you think of it. Moving on. I got nothing. I'm sorry.

You know, really, this is actually a problem for me. I work really hard, and I don't have, I don't fuck around a lot, you know, like goof around. No goof-ups. No, we laugh and make jokes, but we fucking work hard. So sometimes I hear these stories about people on set and playing pranks and stuff, and you're like, who has time for pranks? We barely can shoot the show with the time we've got. If I fucking pulled a prank, I'd be like, Sony's on the line.

You blew $50,000 with your fucking prank. What the fuck is going on? Shoot the show. Jonathan Banks. Somebody pranks him. No pranking going on. Kevin, have there been any story arcs you suggested or worked with the writers for Better Call Saul that made it in the show?

You had an idea of it. That's a good question. They do ask me what I think. And I do talk about the show and the character pretty much from the point of view of a fan, which is to say I just watch it and I'd like to see this happen and I like this character and I want him to, I don't want him to die or whatever. I just sound like a fan.

When you read fan comments, I'm the same way. Don't kill Kim. Come on. You know, they don't listen to me. I mean, they do, but. They don't. But they shouldn't because they're great storytellers. And they think on a deeper level.

And one of the things they do is they're really always working to tell a story. that you couldn't predict, but that makes sense, emotional sense. And so usually whatever I pitch them is kind of some logical extension of what's happening. And that's exactly what they don't want to do is something that you can foresee fairly easily. They want to do something that surprises you, but resonates with everything you know about the character or the world. Lisa, any good behind-the-scenes stories from your time on how I met your mother? another question about behind the scene but that's not work can i tell you about how i met your mother

that was amazing it's not a story at all but i i did like six episodes and the first time i went in the read through i was like what is going on like people are like hey how you doing what'd you do where'd you go we went to santa barbara oh really did you eat at that place everyone was smiling and they read their script and laughed and then they clapped at the end of it and I was like, what the fuck is going? Is there somebody here that you're doing a show for? And then the more I did the show,

the more I realized, no, they like each other. They like the show they're on and they like each other. That was so weird. It was just odd to you. It was so fucking weird. I couldn't conceive of it. I'm not that people hate each other, but they were so,

Um, happy. Also, people get so jaded so easily in this business, right? And they weren't. They were like really thankful to be doing this show. That could be, that could be obnoxious, can it? Why are you so happy? Come on. It didn't seem real.

But it was. Because the more I would go back, the same thing would happen again. Hey, Bob, how are you? We're headed over to Sushi Roku. You want to come? But shouldn't you feel that way? I remember. I wish from a Molly.

Sandler also. kind of made me see that in the world that I kind of, you know, you work so hard when you're starting out and you're kind of looking for a break and, you know, you're just kind of working against like how much you suck. You're like, I suck so much. I got to work so hard. And then to see him enjoy everything, he enjoyed being on Saturday Night Live. He enjoyed the after party and the energy of it. And like, what are you, what is this guy doing? He's happy about this. And then you're like, well, I should be too. Fucking A. Come on. If we can't enjoy

this shit, that's kind of not right. That's true. And I think that a lot of people, everybody I talked to you from SNL or it just seems like it was miserable. It was this competition. I mean, there's a lot of reasons why SNL is miserable for people. And number one, they're very young.

It's their first job. They're unbelievably intimidated. They feel like it's going to be a judgment on them. I think a little less now than it used to be. It used to be when I went there, there was a feeling, like, if I fail here, I'm out of show business. Now people know that's not actually true. You can, Robert Downey did one year there, right?

But, you know, it doesn't mean you suck forever. It just means it didn't work there. Right. And people kind of know that, and that's good. That's healthy. But, you know, people are young and intimidated, and it's a fucking steam train. It doesn't slow down for anybody. So there's nobody holding your hand.

Nobody explains to you what's going to happen next. So it just is a, it's a recipe for a huge mind fuck, and it works. Last question, Danny, was it a thrill to be a cast, a cast on the Larry Sanders show? What was it like? For sure. And likely, what was it like to work with Gary Shanley? It was a huge thrill to be cast in Gary's show. And I had been on the Ben Stiller show before that and a writer there.

And Gary had guested in the show. We all got to know him from that and just from the scene. because he gave a shit about young comics. He watched people and looked for who was doing something interesting. And he believed in me, which I didn't deserve and I don't know why, but I was thankful for it. And, you know, it was really nice to play. I've always enjoyed, as I've had the opportunity. I love comedy.

I write comedy. I loved writing the crazy broad comedy that I wrote when I was young and I still like it. but it's really nice to play more subtle and more real-feeling characters. I think for me, I can modulate in there better, and I can, I just feel more effective in that world. So getting that break, Gary giving me that break to play somebody who's just a little more straightforward human. It was awesome. It was awesome. I had just great joy to be around him, although he was stressed out all the time. Gary was.

Did you know, Gary? I did know, Garrett. I mean, you know, I had out with him like probably five or six times, and he was always, like, he always wanted to know about it. Right? He was always like, come here for a second. Come here. What is it? What are you doing at that party, Silverman and Sarah Silverman's party?

I saw you there. We talked for a while. What is it? What is it? What is it? What is it? What do you do it? What's the, he just always picking my brain.

It was just, but he felt like he just wanted to talk about you. At least that's what I thought. Yeah. No, he did. He did. Yeah, I mean, that documentary that Judd did for For HBO, right? Or no, for Netflix was just great.

It's really, it's great, but it is, it is sad, and it is also, you just get exhausted. Do you do all that stuff? Do you meditate to you? I try to meditate with Headspace. You know, that app? It's really good. Yeah, I think, you know, I try to. Maybe they'll be my sponsor now.

I don't do it every day, but I get into it more. But you work out a lot. You're in good. shape. I'm in good shape. I can't believe you're 62. No, I'm 57. Oh, good. But I will be 62 if all goes well. Now, but you look great, though. My dad died at 56. 56? So, you know, whatever your dad dies at that, as a guy, I personally thought, well, I won't make it to 56 for sure, because I know. Oh, wait a minute. I did the math wrong because I'm 40, I'll be 48 and you were born in 62, right? When did your father die? Yeah. My father didn't die. Oh. In fact, if he's listening to it, he's like, what the

fuck he's talking? Hi. Hi, pops. How are you doing, dad? No, he didn't die. And he never will. He's healthy. He doesn't smoke. He doesn't drink. He doesn't.

Well, he doesn't do anything. He'll never, he never will. He'll probably, you know, my grandfather lived long. It's, you know, I think it's pretty good. But yeah, I think your dad died mostly. Well, he had bone cancer. He had bone cancer. And I don't know how you get that.

I don't either. How do you get bone cancer? He didn't smoke, but he spent a lot of time in bars where there was an awful lot of smoke, right? Right. Back then. And, uh, uh, uh, this is awesome. Did you enjoy this? I did.

It was great having a great conversation about all this stuff. Yeah. I really had fun with you. We can go in all different directions and just talk shit. I really, I'm thankful because I know how busy you are and I know you're a family guy and I know you work your ass off. Yeah. And I also try not to do too many podcasts because there's so many of them. And you feel like enough about me, right?

But you're so interesting. You have such a good perspective. That's not true. You know, albeit cynical. Yeah, I am. I am. You're great. We'll go take a picture downstairs.

All right, cool, man. All right, Bob. Thank you. It's been great. I hope you enjoyed that. If you enjoyed that, please, please subscribe. If you like Bob Odenkirk and that's the only reason you listened, I implore you. Try to listen to some more. You might learn something.

You will learn something from other guests. And the guests that I have, they open up more than anyone will ever see or no. It's not entirely true. But it's pretty phenomenal. And I love the support. And I'd appreciate it if you subscribed and send it to your friends. add inside of you podcast at inside of you pod i think on twitter facebook is in instagram is inside of you podcast um odin kirk is just so dynamic man i love that dude oh man i hope

everybody's doing great i want to give a shout out to my patrons they just keep piling up they surprise me every day i see new patrons and i'm just i send them a message of thanks and support for the podcast top tier is alison l andrew We just did a YouTube, I do a private YouTube for my patrons here and there and I just play music for an hour, hour and a half, and I talk to them and they talk to me, and it's nice. That sounded sexual. Barry, I, hi, Barry, Bobby Bortex, Brian H, Carly, S, Chris, Cjp, Emily K, Emily S, Hamza B, Jack S, Jake S, Jake M, Jason D, Jason W. Jennifer S. Jerry W. Jill E. Joshua D. Judith. She's new. Judith D. Judith D. Judith D. Catherine M. Kevin R. Kimberly E. Lauren G. Leah S. Hi. How are you? Stubbs? Mark A. Mary B. Melissa R. Mikey. Nancy D. Neil W. Oh, yeah, br. Nico. You know I love my Nico.

Nico's so helpful. He's been really helping me in the whole podcast stuff, just, you know, just working hard on the, on the inside, trying to get us more attention. Raj, good buddy, Raj. Ream. Robert B. Rocks Raccoon. She's new, but she's been here a little bit. Samantha M. Sarah V. Sean W. Stacey L. Tabitha 272, Tiana, Trisha F. Vanessa in the sky. And everybody, you can. I love you, Kiko. As you know, your support is tremendous. You can go to the online store inside of you,

online store to get inside of your merch. Got a bunch of great stuff and left on Laurel stuff is still there too, if you want. It won't be there too long, much longer, so you might want to get some left on Laurel. It's going to become a collector's edition.

Very special thanks to my guest, Bob Odenkirk, special thanks to Ryan, editing this. It's hard to be away from Ryan, You know, I'm doing this all with myself And he's doing that all by himself And we're just, it's just a lot

Here's a fan Hey Michael, I know I'm probably supposed to join Patreon And not just email you directly But I haven't had a chance to even look at Patreon Or much of anything Anyway, just a quick note To tell you whatever obstacles or discouragements You run into keep going.

I had a difficult week. After years, almost 1,000 shots, tens of thousands of dollars in multiple miscarriages my wife and I did our final IVF cycle and embryo transfer everything seemed to go well but our last baby a girl didn't make it i feel like a dumbass because i had my own i had my only child my two-year-old daughter so excited as i had told her her sister his name victoria was on the way oh i probably shouldn't have said anything to her but i was so optimistic things are a bit tough now besides my insurance lifetime fertility cover maxed out. My marriage seems to be in a rough patch. I'm done with the IVF stuff. I can't do it anymore

and just want to focus on being thankful for what I have. My wife is older and resents that I won't keep trying, but even the doctor says it's unlikely. I cannot keep tearing my family apart chasing something. Sorry for the novel of an email. But I wanted to tell you that I got this tough news and I was devastated, scared of what comes next, filled with anxiety. After praying, I went for a walk and your podcast was one of the first places I went. It genuinely made me feel better and gave me more perspective, or some perspective. So whatever you run into, keep doing what you do, man, because it does matter, and it makes a difference.

Thank you, Rob. Well, you're going to get me a little choked up, Rob. Um, don't even know what to say. Boy, does that, doesn't that just put things into perspective? Talk about perspective. We all have tough days. We all have stuff going on. And then when you read that, you're like, okay.

I love when people reach out. I love when they are vulnerable. I love when my guests are vulnerable. I like when people just are human and they act human. And maybe at the end of the day when this is all over, we'll be more human, more human. more humane more loving forgiving accepting you know not being able to touch your friends and give them a hug or just hang out and have laughs you take things for granted and I'm not preaching I'm just saying I'm figuring this out what you have what is important to you

what's important to you is right in front of you and always will be it's not though those intangibles of, you know, you want to be this, you want to do that, I want to be a rock star, I want to, if I had this bigger of a house, if I had, it's really, I'm telling you, you've heard it from so many people, rich, poor, if you have love, if you have connection, you have got it all. Thank you all for allowing me to be inside of you today, and I hope to see you next week. Football season is here. Oh, man.

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