Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Brandon Routh

Episode Date: March 3, 2020

Brandon Routh (Superman Returns, Scott Pilgrim vs the World) joins us to share the thoughts and feelings on his role as Superman not living up to the expectations that he had hoped for. He opens up on the idea of one’s ego clouding self judgement and how it’s important to pursue balance in life. We talk about deflecting as a defense mechanism, overcoming things not within our control, and our purpose day to day. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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This is a big episode for us because this is the first video. Look at that. We're actually talking and seeing us. I can't believe it. This is great. As long as you're on YouTube. Yeah, as long as you're on YouTube, you're listening. Yeah, that's true.

You're still listening to the Chris audio. So you guys could watch, listen to this, which is very important. But you can also then go subscribe to the YouTube and watch. it as well later when you're home from work and you have nothing to do with your lives like me you know I wrote down a whole bunch of stuff of stuff that's going on and I want to always say thank you to you guys out there the listeners I think I've said it a million times but you got to because you're the reason we're here you that are loyal and I see those same downloads every Tuesday when they pop up immediately and I'm like oh people are still listening thank God I

I say that because I love it I love doing this I love talking to people I love learning about I love opening up, becoming more, being more vulnerable and watching my guests be more vulnerable. And that's what's been really great. A lot of people said don't do video because they won't open up as much. And I disagree completely, don't you, Ryan? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

I like it so far. It's weird like being on camera. I mean, not weird for me. Maybe weird for Ryan. It's weird. What do I do? A lot of great stuff going on. Again, I want to say thank you to subscribing.

Tell all your friends. Get them to subscribe. Patriens. My patrons out there are freaking wonderful. I'll mention you in the outro. Your names. You know who you are. But everybody on there really supports the show.

And when you give money to the show, it really, it's, you know, we're not like the biggest show out there. We're not Rogan. And, you know, he's great. I'm not comparing. I'm just saying, you know, we're the little caboose that could. And we want to really just launch this thing. We want to keep doing it and make it grow. Remember the little red caboose?

Well, the caboose is the thing at the back that doesn't fill the engine. It's a little engine. Yeah, fuck. Thank God you're here. I'm an idiot. I will be in Mexico in March. Cool. Le Moll.

Mexico for three days. We're doing a smallville night. Some of the smallville guys. are going to be there. I'm doing a live podcast, guys. I'm saying it right now. You're hearing it. Live podcast in Austin, Texas. This is going to be pretty incredible. It's at a place called the North Door in Austin at 7 p.m. on March 31st on a Tuesday night. My guest is Zach Levi. So you know I'm from Shazam, Chuck. He's been on the show before. We're going to take down Austin. So please get your tickets. I'm going to tell you where to get those tickets.

Well, here it says HTP-T-T-P colon slash slash inside of you live. dot com it will redirect you and get your tickets 25 bucks if you get them now also if you go to margin walker presents.com it will lead you there too that's margin m-ar-g-in so yeah check it out it's it's going to be a really fun night I'm going to get out there with with Zach Levi and hopefully maybe I'll have some shirts by then you know give some prizes and really have a good time I'm excited about it I'm not I'm not nervous I'm excited it's just like I like live live I don't if I can bring you. I think it's too costly. That's fine. Maybe we'll figure out. I'll just sit alone in the dark. No, you won't. That's what it happens. You just turn the lights off in here. Just stay.

Jesus. I know. Great guests today. You've seen him as Superman. You've seen him in the Legends of Tomorrow. That's right. He opened up. I could tell he didn't want us at first, and then he just kind of let it go and talked about, you know, how he didn't really like how he acted it in a certain way and you know maybe it was immaturity or was getting old it was just sometimes life kicks you in the ass and it makes you wake up i've gone through it most people do go through it or they be you know i think if you don't have these revelations or these or become vulnerable or i don't know man it's it's it's amazing where the hand of fate takes you when you just let it and he lets it out he tells you about the adversity faces and um i think

you're going to really enjoy this one i haven't seen him this open And so I hope you guys enjoy it. Let's get inside my buddy, Brandon Ralph. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Welcome to my podcast. This is Michael Rosenbaum and this is Inside of You.

And today's guest. I love that. Look at that. Guess is taking pictures. Brandon Ralph, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. You know, you asked permission. I did. A few times.

I didn't bug you, right? You didn't feel like I was ever bugging you like, oh, shit. You could be truthful. I appreciate what I did notice was that you wanted to make sure that I didn't flake and forget, which I appreciate because that happens quite a lot. Does it happen with actors, with yourself, or does it happen with hosts of you? things. No, no, not with hosts. I think it's with guest. You want to make sure, you know, that it's, that it's happening. I, I, I tend to worry sometimes that, uh, plans that I've made are

going to, are going to fall through it. Somebody forgot or that, you know, because I think with, with the cell phone, people don't make concrete plans. Well, not only that, but if you text somebody, you say, yeah, dude, I'll do that. Sometimes I just forget that I didn't put it in your calendar. Of course I wanted to do it. I've had that where somebody doesn't show up and and then Ryan and I have to sort of improvise. It happened, right? You call your special guest who comes in and, you know, sits in when you're missing your guest like they do in all the talk shows.

Yeah, I'm usually that special guest. I'm usually that recurring guest. Hey, Rosie, are you available at 2 o'clock now? What? Yeah, yeah, we want to be a guest? You obviously, someone canceled. That's why you're calling it. Well, you could do it yourself, just different side, interview different sides of yourself.

If someone doesn't show up, I just go and I just ask a question, go over there, sit down, and you'll just talk to myself. But you interview a different side of yourself, different part of your personality. By the way, I don't think that's a bad idea. We were rolling cameras and I ask some questions and I do this and I do that, you know, we wouldn't be able to use the wide shot. I know. Unless you know some CGI.

But do you get asked to do these things a lot? Do you get asked by people, hey, will you do interviews? Will you do a podcast? A lot, huh? Yeah. It's become one of the most popular ways to talk and have a conversation. I frankly enjoy them. it's much more exciting when I have the time to sit down at length and speak about things

versus, you know, a regular TV interview or tends to be very... Five minutes, three minutes. Very quick. And also they have an agenda, right? They have their agenda for entertainment and I have this thing I have to plug and, you know, their canned answers to a degree. And it's not as creatively engaging and exciting. You seem, I think you are.

You're pretty much a private person. You're a private guy, right? I mean, you're not all over the media, doing things, doing stupid things, getting yourself in trouble. You're not a party or you don't go out and get drunk. You have a wife. You have a kid. I just throw ragers at my house every night.

You throw ragers. Yeah. For myself. Right. Yeah. And my wife. But I was wondering, I was like, what do you do some of this? Because I'm sure in the media you just heard about all the Stephen Amel stuff.

And, uh... Well, I was just listening to a little bit, but not all of it. Well, I got about the first 25 minutes. Well, you almost hit the part where, uh, so he had a panic attack. Oh my gosh. And, you know, I told him, I said, look, I'll get rid of it. You want me to just can it? And I'm like, let me listen to it.

He listened to it. He goes, hey, I want to come back. I want to finish it. And it was really important because all my listeners and maybe more, maybe people, more people will listen because, you know, this is a guy that you look at. You know, like, he's an actor. He's on a hit TV show. He plays a superhero.

He's beautiful looking, great body. He even wrestles on the side. He's got millions of dollars. How could this guy get anxiety? How could this guy get, you know, people don't think about it. I mean, most people are like, oh, actors, you know, this whole thing. You know, they, well, they're getting paid a lot of money. They don't do any.

This guy was working 23 episodes of year. You guys are doing all these crossovers things. And, um, he hit a wall. And I could tell when I was talking to, because they interviewed him before on the show. And he was just, anyway, he decided, look, I'm coming back. I'm going to do this. And he was much stronger in a great place. And we talked about it.

I let him listen to what he had said. And it was nuts. And he was, and I let him know, I go, listen, you know, people want, they want to do this thing on people uh people and uh he's like yeah i go you have a you want to quote something you don't have to he's like yeah immediately sent me back a quote re you know tweeted he was like i was amazed by his bravery yes that's incredibly brave of him to be open enough to have that to to let it be a part of the conversation which yeah you know the stigma and all of that mental health thankfully has has started to get a lot more notoriety and and and

and news and, um, and exposure, you know. Yeah. It's something we all, we all have to deal with every day when we wake up. Yes. How are you going to attack the day? Are you conscious of how you're going to attack the day? Do you just wake up? How do you live life? You know, that's a good segue. And to do you feel like you feel like, do you feel like, do you ever look at your wife? Because in the interview, he says, you know, my wife, uh, you know, she's like, hey, I want you to go see someone. Yeah. I mean, he's not doing anything for two days. He's not eating. He's on the couch. I heard that, yeah.

Do you ever get like, holy shit, man. I played Superman and now I'm on a show where I'm playing, you know, a big character who's, I don't want anybody to see like the vulnerability, the side of me that they'll be like, oh, he's not capable of playing this role. He can't handle it. If you see any weakness, you know, do you ever feel like that or have you in years where no matter how nervous you are or exhausted or whatever it is, you just suck it up and

pretend that you're absolutely fantastic? I don't think I always suck it up and pretend that I'm absolutely fantastic. If I'm tasked with that in an interview and to go on and promote something, yes, I will do that. But, I mean, what you're asking is multiple answers and aspects to that question. I would say that the end of my run as Superman and Superman returns, that did not that did not pan out the way I thought it was going to. The way everyone around me thought it was going to.

And so I had to really come to terms with a lot of that. When there was no sequel, you know, the movie was widely well-reviewed. People liked the movie, but it, you know, made almost $400 million worldwide, but that wasn't enough. And it was a very slow fizzle out of the possibility of a sequel over the next two, three years. and I did my, I did everything I could do that I thought in my, in, in my world to help make it happen. Right. Which is a story for another time. Or this time.

But more to mental health, and we could go back if we want on that. But, you know, I, I think at that point in my life, I still didn't know that I had, that I was anxious, that I had, that what anxiousness really was, or that I had, that I, had. had it that anyone could experience anxiety. Yeah. Did you believe it? I mean, you believed that you just, did you ever see anxiety? Did you ever see certain things where you're just not aware of it? I don't think I let it in, you know, there's a, there's a whole thing about, go back and look at my childhood, anybody's childhood, and we all grew up a certain way, believing certain things and seeing the world in their way. And I pretty much saw rainbows and hearts and rainbows and made everything that I didn't want to be, that wasn't hearts and rainbows into hearts and

rainbows. It's called bypassing, right? So I grew up in a culture of, of bypassing, spiritual bypassing, using God or using something else to say, well, it's going to be, it's going to be okay because just give it to God and it will, you know, everything will be okay because of that. Right. Which is a very, can be very calming, right? It's a way to like, okay, I don't have to worry about this. But that catches up to you eventually. Right. Because then you're only living life in white and life is black and white. You can't have one without the other. It's essential for life. Yeah. And through multiple career experiences and showing me that I have an opportunity to learn more. And through my wife, Courtney Ford,

who's been an amazing help guide. in finding balance Because she was with you through that whole thing Yes She was with you If you didn't have her When you had Superman returns, right? Yeah

Because you met her in 2002? 2003 2003. Sorry. Yeah, it's very close. Very close. But, you know, I always think How do you get through things?

Yeah. There's so many things, death, you know, you were supposed to be on the sequels and then that didn't pan out. Yeah. And if you don't have anybody to vent to or really go deep

and be vulnerable, and real and you just deflect. You're like, fine, I'm fine. Go have a drink or I'll go out and party. You're just prolonging the inevitable. What's happening is distraction, distraction, distraction. And all of a sudden, three years later or two years later, a month later, you start to feel things and you don't even know where they came from.

But why do I feel this? Why did I get so upset about that? Why was my response? And you have no idea. And then it's lost in translation. You don't even know why you're upset. And you then through whatever therapy or you realize, it's coming all from that, all these things that I kind of tucked away.

Yes. I mean, that's what I found. So it's nice that I, you know, I was doing some reading and I do that occasionally, but reading. But I just, I noticed Courtney was the theme. Courtney was sort of the running theme that was just like, I see how important she is to you. I very openly speak about it at this point in my life because I understand the great value. that I've, that I've, that I've, that I've been able to, to, to, to, to learn from her. I mean, we've both, we've both learned from each other. But I, but I, but I see, from my

perspective, I see the, I see the deficit that I was experiencing in my life up into that point. Yeah. As far as understanding, balance in, in life. And, you know, she knew me, she knew me best then. She knows me best now. And so going through that whole trauma of, Superman Returns, the end of Superman Returns, was a long drawn-out process of me in denial for much of it. And thankfully, I guess I didn't lean on drugs or alcohol. Parting, I played World of Warcraft endlessly. I see that you're going to walk-up. And that was my addiction. And then, you know, a few other games along the way. But that was where I lost myself and spent way too much time. It took me a long time to come to terms with that, that that was an addiction for me.

To beat the game? You know, to get a long time. I beat, wait, it's still going? Wait, they keep updating it. Wait a minute. There is no beating it. Is there not? I've never played.

No. You can't beat. It just goes on and on. No. It goes on and on forever. Right, right. As it's designed to do. And, you know, that was my, that was my therapy.

That was your escape, it's air collection. Right, right. But it wasn't helping me, you know, it was a coping mechanism, but it wasn't teaching me things. Until I finally came, you know, had several experiences where, I had to come to terms with that. And so she was part of that. Now I have a better understanding of what happened then. Looking back, I can go, okay,

I took way too long to get this point, but finally I achieved that level up as far as balance. My next phase was realizing what I had messed up, where I had screwed up. What was the screw up? The screw up was, still learning what the screw up is. The screw-up was

Deflecting, right. What was deflecting, but why was I deflecting? And in the deflecting, I had built up this ego of who I was. And I was also, it was fear. Deflecting out of fear, okay? So I was deflecting out of fear because I played Superman. I jumped, this huge to the front of the line. I had done auditions and I'd been on stuff before,

but I really jumped to the front of the line when I did that movie. And then I wasn't getting. given what I thought I was, or had earned. It wasn't getting offers. Isn't that kind of an effed way of looking at things? Because I know. Because we feel like, well, we deserve this. Yeah, I felt very deserving.

And it's like, it's hard to, it is ego. And it's hard to imagine like, it's just, that takes time to change your way of thinking, doesn't it? A very long time. I was told by my, you know, representatives and everyone, they thought it was going to be a big deal, right? That's what happens. You do a big movie and then you do a big movie. and then you do other movies. Well, I read that they actually, your agent took you on because it's like, you look

sort of like resemble Christopher Reeves, so I'm going to have him in my back pocket because he's destined to play that role. Is that sort of why he became your agent? Well, originally, that was what he said to me. But that I no longer, that agent dropped to me after I got fired from the soap opera. I was on back in 2001. Anyway, so they missed out on that. Yeah, sure did.

But that didn't happen. And when the only offers, I was getting more horror movies, which I did not want to do. Which I love, the way I look around you, Fright Night, we've got Dracula over here. Rudy isn't a horror movie, but, you know. Yes. It's a wonderful movie. So you're getting all these other offers. Things for projects that I didn't, that weren't in line with what I wanted to do.

Right. Not a lot, but they, but what offers were coming and were for things that I just had no interest in. And I didn't see them moving my career forward in the path that I wanted. I had to audition for things. And there were things that came very close that there, that I was working with. on the studio that just didn't, they didn't pull out of, they were in production and it didn't happen. A couple of other things that just didn't happen. But by and large, I was not a qualified auditioner. Who is? It's the worst thing in the world. Are you better now? I feel like I'm better now.

I have more confidence in myself and many other things that kind of help make that better. Right. But I was, I was not a good auditioner except for things that I was really right for. Right. Which is why you get the things you're really right for. Anyway, so I didn't do the work. I didn't read scripts well enough. I didn't, I was, my foot was halfway out the door every time I was going in. So then I was probably creating a bad reputation for myself with casting offices and producers and things.

But I was in denial of all this for quite a while. And I had great opportunities, thankfully, that came along, you know, with Zach and Mary and Kevin Smith, you know, and Scott Pilgrim versus the world. You were just talking about that. Yeah. Loves that. I got to see that. That's really fun.

A lot of my friends have seen it and they love that, so I got to see that. That's a classic. It's a worthwhile movie. All right. I'm going to check it out. And then with Chuck. And so I had things, you know, thankfully kept me afloat and learning along the way. But it wasn't until I really, until I really understood that I needed to start again, that I needed to relearn things.

and relearn how to, not relearn, but I had to go back, I had to go back and actually learn how to audition for myself and re-engage myself and really become part of the process and fully, looking back, I can call it surrender. I can say that I had to surrender to the process and surrender to the fact that I had to audition. And became disciplined, it sounds like. Yes, I started to work hard. And so that started, you know, the first thing that was happened is after I took on that, mentality was I got the pilot for the sitcom that I did called Partners in 2012, and that was a wonderful experience and would love to be still doing it to this day, but we did 13 episodes and that was the end of that. Then shortly after that was the opportunity for Arrow. And I, you know,

they brought in, I had a meeting with the producers, but then I had to go back and I read with wonderful Emily Ricketts and did a chemistry test with her and so I had to prove myself That's the thing you always You have to prove yourself and I'm like listening to you It's funny because sometimes I think I'm gonna have nothing in common with people

And then you start talking I think we all have things that are in common Like there is an ego Ego is such a big part of everyone's life that they probably ruin a lot of opportunities And I remember I had opportunities But it was ego It was lack of discipline.

I don't want to go learn this. I just, I was sort of embarrassing. If I look back, I'm like, you fucking pompous little shit. For you to go, you know,

you have an audition with, you know, Tom Hanks or something. I mean, I worked on that one. But, you know, Goodwill hunting

and saving private Ryan. And I remember those, like, the night before party ended up. I was a kid. I was like 26. And I was like, I'm going to go,

I didn't give a shit. Like, I, I, wasn't maturing, by the way, maturity isn't something that is in my vocabulary, but I'm very responsible. And, you know, it takes time. You say it takes time to sort of like look back and go, hey, this is, this is where I was fucking up. This is, this is why. And you said you learn, you relearn things. I've talked about this before, but I, I, I wasn't relearning. I had to

learn all these things. I had to learn all the things that I didn't learn as a child. And so there was a lot of growing up, but I've done probably in the last, the most grown up I've done in the last year and a half of just between doing this podcast and like talking to folks like you and and so just sort of digging deep and like it's funny because I'm watching you're like there's still things that you're figuring out we're all figuring out but when when you look back and you think uh you know I deflected I started playing Warcraft my wife's doing this did you do you remember even like having any breakdowns any emotional moments any like crying spout you know bouts of like uh just like God what's the matter with me I'm emasculating myself you know

Did you ever feel like that? Yeah. I mean, I'm not going to go into detail because that's a, you know, but there was a moment and that was the moment when I, when things started to change, crying, sobbing on the floor. Because I was, I was shown. I was, I finally, I finally allowed myself to come, I was in a vulnerable enough place, I guess, to come face to face with, with how people saw me.

So you have this vision of who you are, right? And then there's how people see you. And when those two things are incongruent, when they don't come together, they don't match up, you look in the mirror and what's looking back at you is other person's reflection of who you are. It's like, what? Wait a second. No, no, no. For a long time, you go, they're wrong.

Right? They're wrong. They're wrong. It's not me. Right. I know who I am. But if you really allow that to see that, it can be devastating. Oh, oh, whoa.

I was a real idiot. I sincerely hurt people and I made an incredible amount of mistakes, but I'm a good person and I mean well. So that was part of my, part of my ego is, well, I'm a good person. I mean well. I'm doing, I'm doing this to help somebody. But some people, sometimes people don't want help or they don't want the help that you are giving them. You can still hurt somebody by helping them. You can still, you can, I mean, I can't give you an example right now, but happens that you can have good intentions, but still hurt people. And I was in a cycle of of that, to a degree, of not understanding that I was doing that, right? And then you were all a sudden hit with it. So then I'm a martyr. I feel like I'm a martyr, right? But I was. I was just

kind of screwing some stuff up. And then it became a reality to you what you had been doing. Like, you were really genuinely honest with yourself. And that's sort of when the breakdown happened. Yeah. That's sort of when you were like, I'll tell you what, I get it. Self, like self-loathing. Yes. Like, you know, when I've had in. interviews like people don't love themselves i get it yeah get it because i've been there yeah i know it's like you know what i not only don't like myself i actually remember looking in the mirror i'm not i'm not kidding did i tell you this ryan no i remember looking in the mirror and going who the fuck are you man like like if anybody was filming they think i was a crazy person and maybe i was maybe i am i remember going

who the fuck are you dude like who the fuck are you and i really look at myself it wasn't like i was doing this all the time. I was just like, this would happen. Occasionally, every couple months, I just go, I, you know, washed my face and I brushed my teeth and I kind of look in the mirror and I go, I'd look closer. Like, I just, I was trying to put it together. Like, I really don't know myself. I don't. What do I do? Like, what do I do? I don't have Courtney. I don't have, you know, so mine was, well, therapy. Mine was like going, fucking, fucking, I'm going to take care of I'm going to find me and I want to live the last 20, 30, 40, 50 years going, hey, now I got a grip of who I am.

And that, by the way, that's horrible. I mean, I've had those breakdown moments. I've had those breakdown moments in the shower like it's a, a comedy. Like if people were filming it, it'd be like air supply and I'm on my knees naked with water around me and I'm just bawling. And I start to laugh after the cry, thinking of that, I'm all out of love. I'm so lost to them. I'm naked.

You're fucking naked. You're an idiot. What's wrong with you? you know and dude that that fucking hits home it doesn't if you just pay attention to it long enough you'll you'll have to address it yeah that's self-awareness you know we look in the mirror all the time and see if we have uh you know anything in our teeth or what our hair looks like we're not really looking and seeing what's behind the eyes what's who's there who's in control is our brain in control or is our higher nature in control are we just a mammal or are we a human it's the

difference that sets us apart from pretty much all mammals is that we have this ability to think on a higher level and how self-awareness in our prefrontal cortex what sets us apart is that we know that we know that we know we don't just do things we can understand our we're aware of what we're doing we can be we can be aware of what we're doing most of humanity is not aware of what they're doing They're just doing it on on. Every once in a while they check in. Autopilot. It's going through the motions.

It's autopilot. We've all done that. Until these big moments, either happier or sad, hit you and it goes, whoa. And you're forced to either step out of that autopilot or not. But when you're able to step out, you go, holy shit, this is what is real and what isn't real. am I in control of and what am I not in control of? What is this human experience? What am I here for? What am I doing? Why am I working 14 hours a day? Not seeing my family or what have you.

To make money, maybe. There's always reason to make money. Why am I making money? Why am I doing any of this? Why am I? From my child, for my. We're all searching for the purpose. And then we're going a little bit from Intelis, but this is all part of it. You know, what is the purpose of what is the purpose of life? I certainly don't have an answer for everyone. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater.

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Rocket Money. But you're getting something now. Talking about purpose. Purpose isn't just something you're born with. And maybe you are born with it, but you're just not aware of it. Most people aren't aware of their true purpose, their true calling. And it's usually the hand of fate or whatever happens throughout life. Eventually you get to a place hopefully young enough where you're like, this is what I'm

destined to do. I'm destined to, maybe I'm destined to just talk to people and open up and help other people who are listening. Maybe, you know, my real destiny lies. I mean, whatever. But sometimes that takes a long time. And I think it's taking me a long time. Yeah.

It's a double-edged sword, I think, because you can kill yourself pursuing your purpose in the pursuit of your purpose and the belief that there has to be a purpose, some great purpose. In the pursuit of purpose and meaning in life, we do a lot of bad things sometimes. I mean, villains have purpose, and they want to validate their life of villains, people who have, uh, what we're in that universe long enough, you're going to say what we'd call, what we'd call villains, you know. Right. Um, I've played enough bad guys to know that you, you have to believe that in what you're doing in order for it to come off, um, authentically. Um, that's the world that they live in. And for me, only for me, speaking only for myself, I am

experiencing what it is to be human and that is my sole purpose how do you do that not soul purpose it's the fundamental purpose what do you do to achieve that obviously you know you can't just go to work and be an actor and and come home and there's got to be other things that uh you know like charity stuff whatever it is that make you feel something make you feel human interaction connection presence all that stuff like is there certain things that you like this is the most important, and I'm not sacrificing this. This is going to happen. I'm going to continue doing this. And, you know, what is that? The biggest rule or attachment that I have to any kind of rule or structure is not my father. So that's number one. And then I'm then I'm a husband and

teammate to Courtney. And we have that unit. And then extends to my family, my parents and my sisters and my brother and friends and what have you. But I have to be here. I have to support Leo. That is my number one thing in life. That's purpose, man. And it's a dual purpose. I mean, I learn as much from him as he's learning from me, if not learning more from him, to do that experience. But it's here to experience life. Right now, I chose to have a child. So I'm experiencing life to see myself reflected. I am seeing a reflection of all of my flaws. I see it on a daily basis. The traumas that I have, unresolved trauma that I have in my life that I'm propagating to my son. And I can see that and go, oh, I don't want it to do that. That was a learned

behavior from my family or from society. And I don't choose to continue to put that out into the world and to give that to my son. I want him to be free of those, um, foibles, those sins of the father and mother and what have you. So I just can't imagine him having that much, much sin. You seem like such a great guy. Like, I know these are subtle things. These are little things along the way that you're like, oh, he's learning that. That's from me or that's from this. I, you know, I feel horrible. I don't want him to, but you've got to remember that we're human. We're definitely not perfect. And he's going to evolve into something. And you give him the love. you give him whatever attention that's probably you do the best you can you have to know that like

at least i'm learning that like do the best you can as long as you know it was the best you could do you know in that moment and i even give credit to my parents i'm like going you know hey you just really didn't know how to be a certain way and i forgive you and i'm moving on and i love you just acknowledge your fuck-ups acknowledge your fuck-ups which means when leo gets to be 20 years old he's like you know blah blah blah and you know you're you know hopefully he won't say fucking but I would and then he's like I'm like Chris Farley right now idiot it's it's about saying you know what Leo you're right about that I'm gonna be honest with you I wish I would have done that I apologize for that I'm telling you

just any kind of acknowledging something from a parent because they're always perfect they're on the pedestal they don't fuck up there my parents were just I thought they were fucking perfect everything said politically, they said so-and-so was having a fare down the street, they're not good parents or this, I believed them all. And then I woke up one day and I go, are you fucked? Look at you. You guys are more half than the others. I think that there was definitely like, look, it's how you're raised, but I remember looking at my dad, like, never drank, never smoke, everything, you know, nothing, no pot, I mean, almost nothing. And it wasn't until I was 21 and I was

at his old dentist's office in Long Island. I was like, yeah, my dad just, was he always like just kind of like break down the line, just didn't really do much? You're dead. You used to walk around naked. Are you kidding me? I'm like, what? So there's certain things you don't need to tell your children.

My dad's like, yeah, yeah, what? Later on, he started to open up a little. But I think that as long as you're just honest and you do the best you can and you acknowledge your faults and your flaws, that I think that's what he's going to really admire. It's something when you don't, when you sit there and go, well, I never did that. You're wrong. Yeah. I have a feeling you listen to your child. You're calm. You kind of just, how old is Leo? Seven. Seven. So, you know. We do our best to take responsibility and say I'm sorry. It's a very important practice for us to, to admit when we have made mistakes, parents make

mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes and teaching him to be responsible for his own mistakes is a big thing. It's important to us. You know, you say you can't imagine me doing too much wrong or what have you. But I have a, I had a, I had a, like a zero to, I don't know, 60, zero to 50, anger sometimes when, when something wouldn't be right with, not just with him, but, but road rage and that kind of thing, which I had a challenge with years ago. And I, that reaction now is, it's been something I become aware of and you start with awareness that you're doing something

and then you go okay I'm doing I might stop it every time but I'm becoming more aware that you don't like this about yourself I don't like it it doesn't serve any understand where it's coming from why I'm doing it

and you start to dissolve those things and same thing with there a lot of frustration as a as a parent why doesn't the child sleep why doesn't he do this why you know there's it's it's a form

it's a very challenging most challenging time in my life probably and so you can look at those things that you're doing that are not ideal and you can work to shift them because I want the experience not only for him but for me also because I'm not setting myself up to have a good day if I'm frustrated, continually frustrated by a child being a child. That is an irrational attachment for me of a child to be perfect and I had There's the whole perfectionism that was in that I had, um, aspect of it. But I want to go back to, because it's all wrapped up.

Go back to the road rage. No, I'm kidding. Go back to my first and foremost attachment and most important thing to be taking care of as my son and experiencing the world and, uh, experiencing the universe, uh, I'm conscious being and I get to experience what it is to be human and what it is to interact with life. So in order to do that effectively, for me, I have to find joy, to find joy wherever I can. I don't always remember this. Listen, this is a, this is a new practice for me, and I am working

on it continually. But, and it's a challenge when you have impeachment trials and what's happening in Iran and all, everything in the wildfires. How do you find joy when there's all this terror, these terrible things happening in the world? I think they're probably always going to be terrible things happening in the world for a very long time. So either we're always completely stressed about it and worrying about that and trying to stop those things. We should try to stop those things, always. But we also have to be able to find joy where we can. And do those things and find joy. Have the moments of, of despair and loss. Don't gloss over it. Don't pretend it doesn't exist. And these things have been

happened for a long time. Exactly. For all of time. My dad said, well, things are worse now, right? He's like, are you kidding me, Vietnam? We just didn't have it on phones and everywhere in front of you at all the time. There was horribleness going on. And what does it matter if it was better or worse? It's still happening. And it's going to, I think it's probably going to continue to still happen. I hope not.

Until we as human beings, as sentient beings, can find a better way to balance it and to experience it. So that when there's a trauma, we don't fully throw away our belief in positivity and good things happening, just because this terrible thing is happening. And when this wonderful thing's happening, not just throwing away the fact that terrible things can happen. Yeah. But finding that balance and being okay with that. And a lot of spiritual teachings talk about this.

It's the, I don't know, that's the middle way, correct definition. But there's, but you have to find balance that both things can exist. And it's okay that both things exist. I don't think you can ever, I don't know if we'll ever extinguish. If we're to ever extinguish darkness, then there's only light. And if there's only light, how can you know anything else? I mean, there are many philosophers talk about this idea, Yun and Yang, black and white.

But also joy. I'm getting into the weeds here. That's all right. I like the weeds. But finding joy and how I've, so what I try to do on my work is go to work and enjoy my time on set. How do you do that? You're exhausted.

Because the end product, you don't know what the end product's going to be. and I had to go into this, you're also talking about loss, so we're going back to that. Loss of my family for the last five years and the character that I played for six years, as you may or may not know, I filmed my last episodes as in the Aeroverse and as Ray Palmer.

And that was a very traumatic event for me. It was not something I was expecting. It was a shocking... Like the day of, they told you? The day of filming? Yeah, hopefully they didn't do that. No, no, no, no. It was before we started production,

but it was not well handled. And, uh, and so that has been something, and I'm still... my wife and I are both still working through. So it's been a huge transition time for us those last eight, nine, ten months. And so going, how is I going to find the joy in that, knowing this thing was going to be looming? But I work to just be with my crew, which become my family and my cast, we've got my family,

and experience that and just be there in the interactions with the people. And how do you do that? You have to have awareness. You have to check in on yourself and go, where is my brain? What is my brain thinking? Wait, wait, wait. Where am I, am I a repetitive thought about something? Am I having an ant automatic negative thought that's happening?

And also, yeah, you let those things spiral. And if you go in a certain way and you start, I remember dealing with things and you could see it. It's on your face. They're like, okay, what are we doing? It's like resentment aren't these people. It's something that happened that they have nothing to do with. And there's nothing they can.

can do. And so it's sort of a waste of energy. But to be able to look at that and go, all right, all right, this is what this is. That's maturity. That's hard. That's the work of life. So you have to have all these experiences in your life that help you teach you at some point that that's the way to enlighten it, to freedom to freedom from this autopilot. So we're born. We don't have autopilot. We're taught autopilot by society, by our family. We're open. we're open beings in that first stage of life. But you have to be able to function. Yeah.

You, you, if, if the world is an acid trip and you have no structure as a baby, you don't have, you know, I don't know if it's like an acid trip, but everything's crazy colors, whoa, I don't know what, I don't know what anything is. There's a name for this. What's language? I'm calling this this. This is the color blue. We have to do that in order to then experience the things.

Right. But you learn that behavior. You learn that autopilot, mostly from your parents and from society. But then you have to unlearn that. Well, you, it sounds like when, after the whole Superman thing, you know, you, thank, thank God in a way, because let's say the sequels happened, you would have been, you wouldn't have changed. You would, that would have lingered on like a freaking cranberry song.

Who knows. Who knows? But the fact that it, sorry, I could have really broken down in a bad way or lashed out or done some other thing because I wouldn't have had, you know, I wouldn't have had the experiences that I did have, the loss that I did have to help be my journey. How much of a better person do you think you are from that experience and growing and figuring all that out in those fucking moments where you're just sobbing and growing as, by the way, you weren't that old when this happened. 25. 25. Yeah. I thought I knew everything. Of course, we always do. It's crazy.

But look, with the whole thing, you told me about this, because I don't know much about this with the Adam, you know, another character in the comic books ends up in the comic books, they take over that character? That's what I read online. Is that true? Yes. In the comic book, in the comic world, Ray Palmer gets lost. I can't remember exactly where it gets lost in the multiverse or in something mixing that up with the ant, with ant, but he disappears anyway, but he leaves his belt behind, which is in the comics how he has the power to shrink. And this young man takes over. Takes over, Ryan Choi becomes the eye. I mean, okay, that's in the comic book. but it's something who's working and everything is great and the ratings are great and everybody

who gives a shit if he gets lost he can let him get lost the last episode am i wrong here because i don't know how this works well that's not so there's a lot of rumor uh that flies around because you know these things are put out there and and for whatever reason they they don't have a there's it's not my it's not my place to to to to really speculate or or understand plans you could You know, I think characters are put out there to see how, what the response is and what happens. And that's not what happens with Ray. In the end, I think I'm fine saying that he doesn't get lost into the multiverse. It's not, we're not following the comic book structure.

Right. But if they ask you, they were going to come back for this thing in the next season or whatever. I don't know down the road if you're not going to be on the show anymore. I mean, would you, would your ego then take over? Or sometimes I don't think if it's even ego, it's like, no, I don't want to do that anymore. Yeah, that's a tough thing. Yeah. I've done that.

We're like, come back. I'm like, I don't want to. Not for that. With me, I didn't want to come back because I was that guy. Yeah. So I'm not going to come back in some other universe. I don't even know what the fuck's going on. And by the way, it's great.

There's a lot of great stuff. I'm just saying, there's another Lex and it's me. And it's like, this is not what I need to do. Yeah. I came back for season seven. I came back for season 10 for the finale. I wanted to. It was great for the fans.

you know and there's a lot of rumors and stuff there was always like oh he left the show god damn but kevin smith says he left the show one more fucking time i love you kevin i said it but i'm like i didn't i mean technically my contract was six years i talk about this six years i stayed on until seven seven years i did 160 something episodes and then i said hey i'm gonna go do whatever and of course people are like oh you let of course no matter what i do it's not going to be as big as small bill so i went off to do things that i love yes i want to direct i want to do this. I want to hang on my family. I want to, you know, what is he doing? Blah, blah, blah. You left

Marlville. What wouldn't he come back? Well, fuck you. You're the one is selfish. Telling me what I should be doing. Fuck you. So, I'm not angry. But what I'm saying for you is, if you want to come back because you love it and it's great and, oh, this is interesting, then that's what you do it for, of course.

But if you're like, you know what, I did this for five years? Five seasons on Legends and then my season on Arrow. 100 over 100 episodes is the character. What I'm saying is, do you think you'd go back? I mean, that's kind of a bridge that I will decide to cross when I get there. Yeah. There's a lot wrapped up in that answer.

I'm sure. There's probably a little resentment. You said you didn't like how you, how things sort of, you know, by the way, I really appreciate your candor and just sort of you're just, just being able to just, you know, feel and say that, you know, these are feelings, whether they, are they necessarily right to someone who watches the podcast or someone who looks at your interview you can't say everything

that everybody wants you to say you can't feel like it so sometimes you do say things is trying to live for other people and be what other people think I should be one of my biggest fucking challenges worried about what people think of me thank you that is the hardest thing because you want everybody to be happy

you want everybody to be you know like you want everybody like you of course you want everybody but at the end of the day it's like I'm just going to really try to I'm going to fuck up I am going to fuck up. I promise you. It's essential to life. It's essential to life.

And I do a lot. I know now. And hopefully if you love me or you like me and I say something you don't like, you don't go, well, fuck him. You go, all right, well, that's his opinion or that's how he felt in that moment. So, you know, it's, it's tough. And like a lot of people on the outside will always say, you know, the thing you always hear is like, you know, they're lucky.

Oh, my God. They don't have a right to feel in a way. And I'm like, I, I am grateful of shit. I live in a house. I'm able to do great things. I'm blessed. Beyond, I am blessed. If it all ends now, I am, I died.

I say, hey, man, I, I had, whether I had the opportunity, I had the, I had everything in front of me, whether I used it to my best, you know, capabilities. Probably not. I'm learning to do that now and helping other people, and which makes me feel good. But, uh, I don't know even where I was going with that. It's okay. It's okay to screw up. Yeah.

By the way, I, and, but I appreciate it. And to see people, you. I think it's important for people to know that we're fallible, you know, we, for me putting up the, playing the character of Superman, I put a lot of pressure on myself to, to, to live up to that expectation. I mean, I was always, I was already a, you know, a boy scout and didn't do a lot of crazy things anyway, but I made sure that once I got the role that I was, that I protected the image not only of myself, but of the character. And it was very important to me to have the character have integrity. And it's a balance anyway of trying, showing perfection and then showing that, you know, life isn't about being perfect. And I think it's important for people to know that, you know, that it's not always, you know, better on the other side. You know, we have this image, we have this view of who people are and what they are. We imagine what their lives are like.

And we project and we want to live that life because it's better than ours. Always, yeah. And you have to come to terms with the fact that to find happiness, you have to be okay with where you are. Well, this is your life. This is your life. And surrender to your experience. Some days are good.

Sometimes they're bad for everybody. Yeah. I tend to do that. I will look at like my friend Kent in Indiana with his three kids in his house. And, you know, I don't know how it times like I just, I'm, there's this envy. There's this, uh, this feeling of, man, I won't say it out loud because God, I'm sure he wishes that he'd be on a hit show when he goes out and some people recognize him and he does all these things he goes to laker games and but deep down I'm thinking his wife's awesome he's got three

kids are in the Midwest kids are drinking out of garden hoses you know they go to maybe go to a Walmart together whatever well I'm serious there's there's certain friends that I look at that I'm like I mean it's so cliche it just doesn't matter what you have in terms of you know money or fame it just, I mean, it just doesn't. You hear it all the time and you're lucky when you have it. You have all these things. It's what you do with it. But also, I mean, you think about the happy moments.

Happy moments when you just connect with someone. You just, it's not about the money. It's about two people going, this is a great moment. This is fucking, I can just feel this. This is you and me. This is beautiful or witnessing something really nice. And it's very hard. And we get caught up in all these things.

It's experiences, man. And that's what's what's all about. I think that's why I'm, when I say I'm learning, I am. I'm learning every day. I'm like, why am I not happy today? Why do I feel, you know what? Why don't you take a nice hike and look at the beautiful fucking trees and nature and sure you're colorblind, but this guy still looks great, you know?

I mean, there's so many things you could do every day that we just go, oh, I'm tired, I'm this, and just, you get a car, go for a drive up the coaster. I mean, and wherever you live, there's always something you can do to just, go to get outside. And when you get outside of your head, when you could just say, because that's not fun to be in there too much, too long. But if you just take a, you know, today, I'm taking the day off. I'm just going to hang out with Leo and Courtney and we're going to go to Chuck E. Fuck, I don't want to go there, but I'm going to go just to see Leo's face and those, those bacteria-infested balls that he's playing. You know, there's, that's where, you know, people talk about meditation

and I don't have a regular meditation practice. I still, I can't, I still have not had this, found the structure to do that in my life. But I've read a lot about it. I've read a lot of books of spirituality and religion and all this kind of thing. If I can do this, man, you can do it. Trust me. And I do have, you know, moments where I'm meditating in life, just in just in life. It's not setting aside time to do it. But my point in bringing this up is clearing your mind is one thing, but listening to your mind is maybe another thing. And when you're in nature, you can be in nature, but you also have to be aware of where your thoughts are and surrender to the fact that you're in nature and that you don't need to write the email and that you

don't need to think about... That's it, isn't it? Think about what's for dinner or check your Twitter messages. See, if you have another follower. If you just... But those, but that's the autopilot. It's so, it's so quietly running these programs running in the background that it's really challenging.

Restart. To cultivate the... the ability to listen to it. I'm saying this, not because I've mastered it, because I'm currently working on it. And as you're talking to somebody even, can I talk to you and still have that awareness about oversharing or why am I sharing this information?

And I do that because I have with my son. Can I really, when I go to the park with him and he wants to play with me, can I just surrender and not worry about anybody watching me and saying, oh, that's brain and mouth? is one thought that pops in my head sometimes. The other it is, oh, I have this email. I have to get back to my manager.

I have to get my something texted me. What are we having for dinner? I have to let go of those things in order to really be with him fully and play and engage. And then I can get back my childlike sense and really just play with him. And I tell you, it's really a challenge. It's not a challenging, but you probably get down on yourself.

Like, why? You know why? Because this is honestly, this is just as bad as a cocaine addiction. Okay? Yeah. because it really is or a heroin maybe i mean maybe you won't die as fast maybe it doesn't feel like it's fucking you up really badly but it is it's almost as if one thing leads to another to three hours of a wasted day to man i could have uh i could have been having a great hike with my friend

or i could have been it just sucks the life out of you and it's it's hard and it's but why do i have to keep coming back because you're addicted to it we're addicted to it this is it's that's the world we live in and so but we again like a coke addict like a heroin addict guess what we got the fucking choice we can say you know what i don't touch you today and guess what when i pick you up tomorrow the world won't end it just won't i might have 40 emails you know what tomorrow i'll take four hours and i'll just get caught up and everything but today no phone be present and you know what I had that yesterday for a lot of the day where I was just distracted from doing things. I went to the Ronald McDonald's house with the kids for three hours.

I went to this other thing. 85% of my day was like I couldn't really be on the phone. You know? And that, when I looked at it, I saw all these messages and I go, well, don't I really missing. Oh, my friend Kara said, what are you doing? Well, Kara, sorry. I was just being busy. You know, you don't.

And how do we feel so compelled? to respond to everything. I always, I don't want to hurt people's feelings. Like, hey, I'm in town. What are you doing? I don't have to respond. Do you feel like you were in the flow tomorrow? Mom?

You feel like you, something, you know, in the flow, what people call the flow yesterday. Is that what it is? The flow. There's something called, I mean, that's when you get creative, you know, people talk about when they do daring things, and they're surfing or, you know, hang gliding or all kinds of things.

They get in the flow. But it's just like ease and, there was an ease. And, you know, I have, like, horrible neck issues from the fusion. I mean, they're getting a lot better. But I notice when I'm connected or when I'm not on my phone because, you know, they have this epidemic where people looking at their phones, you know, and people are growing like tails and their spine and shit.

I mean, this is true. This is science. Look it out. But by the way, if you have neck problems, should you be like this? Should you be fucking looking down like that? I mean, we just do it. But yes, in the, in the zone, in the, would you call it, the flow? I mean, I just want to get more in the flow of life.

You know, I said to myself, I wrote down. go away and I named a couple places you want to go here you want to go here and I'm always waiting around like well let's see my friend can get off work and go with me why don't you just fucking go by yourself you fucking loser who can't be by yourself

go to fucking Italy by yourself for a week I don't know what if I die then you die in Italy that's pretty cool I mean why can't you just fucking be go take a break turn your phone off go to get a hotel somewhere or in Santa Monica and just go on the beach anywhere. Just disconnect.

It's so easy to do, and I keep pushing it. Three weeks, four weeks. It's like, I'm going to put a date in my calendar after this interview. I'm going to say, if you don't go by this date, it's over. I hate you. That's what I'm going to say. You know, people go on vacation, and they can have that reprieve a lot of the time. We don't go on vacation enough, and it's something that you can do, I think, probably on a daily basis, is checking in and having that

mental, I don't know what you call it, mental vacation. It's, it's understanding the pole of purpose. You go back to purpose and drive and work and kids and attachment to all of these things and the social structure that is life that we have to experience. If we're just laying on the beach all day, I think you really would get bored of that to a degree. So that's why people who, who are, who get sunburned, you cancer? You don't want to do that all that.

Who retire, they often find they need something else to do because sitting at home, If I had all the time to play World of Warcraft, I'd get bored and lonely. At some point, I would want real human interaction, and I would need to go out and do something. So it's a balance between structure and non-structure that we have to, that we have to, that we can push towards, I guess, is working. I don't want to not be working, but it's doing the work, it's going to work, doing something useful that hopefully benefits to society in some way. But I'm not killing myself to do it. I'm having joy while I'm doing it.

I'm finding a way to be an awareness as I'm doing everything I'm doing in life. Do you know what I just thought of? Maybe this isn't profound. When it came to me, it felt profound. When we're on these things and when we're so preoccupied with all these, it's because in the back of our fucking feeble minds, Brandon, what we're thinking about is once I get to where I don't have to care, about this. Once I have such, I have enough money or success or this thing that I love, this

podcast gets enough listeners, then I could realize, it's always going after something that's intangible. That is like, it's never going to end. Then when it's bigger, then why? Then it's harder. If you don't learn to do it now, you're never going to learn it. Exactly. That is very profound. I mean, it hits you in a different way. That is the experience. We're all doing it in a different way. Yeah. We all had different parents. We all went to, you know, had different friendships. We all have different jobs and different relationships with the people that are work, but we're all living a human experience. We all have, there's different social, economical, economic, you know, status and all of that. But we all are challenged by the same

things. And the choice is, do you want to continue living like that? Just a choice. Or, Or would you like to investigate a different way of being so that you can be at peace with where you are presently? That's it. I agree. I think that that's, I think we all want. Everyone can relate. Anyone who's listening, we want peace.

We want to just know we were a great friend, great father, whatever it is. It's just knowing, like, I am enough. Money's not going to do it. Look at Tom Steyer, for instance. He's just popping into my brain because I saw him on Colbert the other day. this guy's a billionaire. He's not at peace. No.

He's fighting for what he believes is the right of the country. He's a billionaire, no political, you know, not in politics. And he's like, I'm going to run for president because I, I can't, I don't agree with what's happening. And maybe I can contribute, maybe I can help. Now, ego, yes, all those things. But he's not, if money gave him peace of mind, he'd be on a beach. Same thing like Bloomberg.

Gives all this money to charity every year. And now he's, and now he's. he's running for money. Now he's running. So money doesn't buy you. Well, that's just like that's the world. That's altruism. That's like philanthropic at another level when you have, you could disappear. You could own the half the earth. And what you're trying to do is just be a better human being, make the world better. That's freaking cool. Because it's exciting. And so if life is, if you're doing the same thing all the time and you have a piece and it's boring, not saying that there should always be war and strife to make life interesting. But

we have to have challenges in our life. We want challenges. We strive for challenges. We strive for challenges. We don't think we know we're doing it, but that's exciting. If you play a video game, we just wander around and you don't, aren't, aren't challenged by anything. This is a free play of a world. It's fun. Yeah.

But I think that you eventually want to be challenged by something in order to have the experience be worthwhile, have the experience be worthwhile, have the experience be interesting and also to learn from yourself. Because if you're not challenged, that's great. That's what I want to do. I want to be in love. I just want to be in love. Yeah. It sounds stupid, but I do.

I think it'd be awesome to just be just crazy about something. It's not something I'm not crazy about people. It's just that, you know, when you can trust someone wholeheartedly and just like a relationship or really, like it's been a while since I've had that kind of, you know, I think that goes back to you too, though, man. The band? You too. Hey, it's quick.

It goes maybe somewhere to them. Your capacity to love someone else is your capacity to love yourself and sincerity and the depth of which you can accept and love yourself is that with which you can do to the other person, I think, and that's something I've had to learn and experience as well. And it's also not always about you. And you need someone to sort of say, hey, asshole, turn your phone off, spend time with your family, go, oh my God, you know, sometimes you need somebody who's also accountable. you could help you know you're accountable for your own but also someone else is

life has not meant to be lived alone if you if you're damn ralph i don't mean that you can be as you can be single but you if you're not if you don't have other people in your life reflecting back who you are that's all about memories it's all about yeah can't learn anything and the process of being here also is is you have to have two just like you have to have black and white you have to have more than one person, more than one thing in order to know, know who you are. Help you figure out who you are. To bounce, yeah, you have to, you have to, yes. You know, I apologize to you.

I don't apologize for the beginning of the interview. I felt like it was just too intense. I felt like we just jumped into it because I wanted to talk to you about, like, you know, I had toys around the house and like, you know, you guys just got a house and, and, you know, you're like, you want a toy room, you want some, because you have toys too. You were a big Superman fan. You had underpants. Not underpants.

Pajamas. I call them underpants sometimes. They're part of it. They're kind of part of their costume. But you had all this. Do you, what kind of, what's your favorite toy that you have? I don't say I'm a collector like looking around your, I, I'm not a, I collect, I have the toys of the things that I've been in because people send them to me and there's kind of a unique thing. So I don't, I wouldn't say I'm a collector of, a true collector of memorabilia that much.

But I do have some cool things. I mean, I have a Joe Montana-assigned football. Dude, see, that's beautiful. That's probably my biggest, coolest collection. I'm not a Giants fan, but I'll never forget that team. I love Montana and Dwight Clark. And it just, yeah, go ahead, go ahead. So that was a pretty, that's a pretty special thing for me that I like to be able to put up

and have a room to display in the movie posters and all of the projects, the various cool props and things that I might have, that people, to be proud. To be proud. To be, yeah, just to go, I get all these wonderful things that people make. for me. Yeah. And they're just, you know, some of them end up sitting in a box and I'd like to be able

display and say, oh, this is cool. I think that's nice. Although it's hard to put up too many things of yourself because that looks just, it's just feel strange. Yeah, I'll have a lot of things in myself. That's good. I don't want to do that. Do I?

But I think what we're going to do is we're going to incorporate some of those things into the, into the house in a way, in a cool way and not be so, not that we were ever really strict about how we, you know, the art we put up in our house. but but be more just free with it just so we put this and this cool art and here's a poster of the show and here's this and that here's a picture of our family and this

and just kind of have it more be more I don't know unique the family it's like this is our house this is my house or your house it's our house this is you know not a museum it's just a family house what he's saying you've seen this as a museum

no no no I think that's what I'm saying I'm a hoarder now what the fuck dude is that what he said I'm a hoarder This is eclectic. This is what I mean. Thank you.

I think that would be the word for it. And we're going to do something real quick. I do this every episode at the last end of the episode. It's for my patrons. They get to ask some questions here. And this is called shit talking with Rosenbaum. Danny says, I think he's great at playing comedic scenes. So I'd like to know which movie makes him laugh the most.

Which movie in the history of life? I'm going to go with my favorite comedy is probably Monty Python. Holy Grail. It's a great one. I love that. I'll cut your, I cut your freaking leg up. I'll bleed all over you.

I don't remember. All right. Nico P. I'm preparing for a role like Superman. How do you make the role your own without crossing the line into imitating a previous incarnation? I'm sure you've been asked that a lot.

Yeah. And again, these are quick questions. You don't have to answer, you know, just you can be quick if you want. Okay. Essentially, I was tasked with kind of

having a similar energy as Christopher Reeve and Superman Returns, and so I did do that, and partially that was just in me because having watched the film so many times, and he was my Superman, so it was just innately there. I had absorbed it, I guess, to a degree. And then, you know, I did, I played Clark differently. I think in some ways my, my approach to him was, was slightly different than Chris's but there are there are similarities and there are things that are different so i'm i'm not afraid to to have walked into his footsteps because that's what i was tasked with i think that that's that's true especially if they're going well he resembles there's a

resemblance can't if they're saying that i wouldn't have had the job i don't want you to get they go hey lex luther how are you i'm truly told i wouldn't have gotten the job right didn't do some of that jillie i love brandon i think he does an amazing job at playing characters that are good and still making them entertaining. Does he get tired of playing the good guy? Well, you play bad guys. I don't get tired. I love the good guy.

I never get to play the good guy. Talking about the joy and the experience of life and the balance. You know, that's why I love playing Clark and Ray Palmer so much. Clark was able to be human to live as a human on Earth because he couldn't do it as Superman. So it was great joy in that interacting with people. And that's why he was happy and all of these things. and Ray Palmer has a similar approach about life as well. He believes in goodness and happiness and all those things,

but his journey on legends has been with the entrance of Courtney's character, Nora Dark, to see the other side and to find balance, kind of mirroring my own life. Angie, was it difficult to keep a straight face acting beside Justin Long and Zach and Mary make a point out? Absolutely. I'm sure I ruined a couple of good improv lines that he had when that happened because I couldn't he's hilarious he's coming on the show too oh yeah good Casey other than yourself who's your favorite wait not Casey I'm not asking Casey Casey Casey says other than yourself who is your favorite Superman oh I love myself

who's your favorite superman Christopher Reeve yeah yeah yeah Matthew Jay what were your thoughts on Scott Pilgrim versus the world where you played a crazy powerful vegan ex-boyfriend I'm curious what you think of the role looking back now that it's been so many years it's a fantastic film. I think it, you know, I still get many, many fans who come up and are very appreciative and quote the line and quote the lines from the movie. It was so much fun. Edgar Wright is a genius. The whole cast and crew was fun to work on. And I love playing outrageous out there over the top characters. Ryan, do you know a quote from that movie? I can't think of any quotes, but follow up. Do you actually play the bass? I learned to play the bass for that bit for that to play

You play the bass battle. I played bass battle. I played bass battle. I played trumpet in middle school and I played in the pet band in college. Oh, nice. You didn't play in high school? I did play in high school too, but yeah, I mean, yeah, jazz band. I was in marching band. I was in marching band. I didn't end up doing marching band in college, which is because I didn't work on my schedule. But my dad is a jazz drummer, and so I quit listening to a lot of jazz. Jerry W. How did you like? working with Brian Singer. You took a deep breath in that one. Well, there's a... You're trying to challenge. It's a challenging subject matter, obviously with the current... Right, but like... Brian is a film genius and was very passionate about the film.

And I think made a great... a great movie. It was not always easy to work with. Why wasn't it easy to work with? I mean, we're talking about mental health. Everyone should be seeing a therapist. Everyone has trauma in their life. And when I say trauma, it just means emotional experiences, heavy emotional experiences. It doesn't mean you had a traumatic brain injury or that you were in the war. Everyone has had some kind of trauma in their life. And everyone should be seeing a therapist. I recommend a trauma therapist. I see one. And he hit things in his life, which, you know, would come up. And he wasn't always the kindest person to everyone. He was always put on his best face for me, thankfully.

So he was kind to you. That was not, that was not an issue. But you saw it. You witnessed other things that you were like, that's uncomfortable. Angelina G. Before beginning of work in the industry, What is the one film or show you wish you would have had the chance to be in? Before working in the industry, if you look back and go, Oh, before working. What's on at this time? God, I'd love to be on 30 something. Was that on?

No. That was way over by then. Maybe for me, before the industry, it was 30 something. Now I'm 48 something. Before I was in the industry. Yeah, what was the one film or TV show? You're like, God, man, I'd love to be in that. How many years ago did you start the industry?

Let's figure it out. 20 years ago. That was... 99, I moved out to L.A. I mean, one of my first auditions was for Dawson's Creek. Oh, not as a regular. It was a character that had, like, in season three or something. So I would kind of watch that.

I'm like, oh, I'm going to go with that. Because I technically wasn't in it yet. I wouldn't say that was a huge dream, but it was the first time I never thought about that. So if I, it's a conscious thought about being on, it was like, what if I was on Dawson's Creek? And don't you love that song? I used to hate it when it was wrong, but now I... Yeah. What was it?

I don't want to wait To be over You went false letter immediately I had a moment of Yeah I was like am I going to go lower Then it's going to sound stupid I have to go for it

You never know when you're in the mic No I don't want to wait No That sounds too cool I went for the original key To be over That was a good song man

Who's saying I made a choice Penny isn't it penny Something? No penny There was a penny Look it out Brian While I'm asking the next question

Okay we're almost done Taylor B What movie your show were Do you feel your greatest accomplishment and why? I always kind of lean towards Superman because it was the biggest, most pivotal experience, not just, you know, career-wise, but just personally, you know, everything has stemmed from that experience. Right. By the way, did you like working with Kevin Spacey?

Shut up, I'll shut up. But, you know, I didn't even think about that. He was Lex Luthor in that movie. Yeah. Pollock Cole. Paul. Paul. Just check for shits and giggles

It's from middle and me and this penny There's a band that something, a penny, something And I, yeah, now I can see that it's not I love the look you just gave me Last kiss or something Not last kiss, that's um Dion K What were some of the funniest moments

On the set of Chuck? I love that he's a great friend Such a good guy I love that show I was a fan of that show before going on Uh, funny moments Funny, funny funny You know, I always loved being in the Buymore

That was, I was wanted to be in the Buymore more but my character was the bad guy turned you know good guy turned bad guy so I didn't wasn't there very much doing funny stuff but uh I don't always had fun when we were there oh funniest or in the yeah funniest Lisa I love him in legends I love him in legend says Lisa thank you Lisa a question would be in regards to your current role what has been your favorite era era mm-hmm because I know there's like the smallville era or there's this era right right historical events slash that legends have gone back yes so that's kind of that would count right the crossovers kind of yeah yeah okay so what is your favorite well um i was be the when we in season

two went back to uh like five 600 ad not yeah ad uh camelot we did a camelot episode and i was knighted sir raymond of the palms did you love it i did i got the sword fight just dressed up like a stud with neil macdonna dude i love neil's great yeah yeah remember he was on that he's great he's he's he's he's such a fantastic yeah well he's got a lot of kids he's uh six kids son of a bitch he's a fantastic actor he is really he played Courtney's dad in the in the show and they had you know Nora and and Damien dark's relationship was awesome and uh I got to be a part of some fun stuff uh with him he's he's great by the way have you finished filming now you're done yes I finished in November in November so that's it

Yeah. Was it an emotional finish? Did you cry in front of the crew? Are they upset people? Because I feel like they love you. I did cry a little bit. There's, uh, it was a weird schedule because we were filming the crossover as I was filming my last two episodes.

So it's hard to kind of. So we're going back and forth from crossover days to, to episode days. And there's a very dramatic, very dramatic scenes in the last couple episodes and, uh, one a particular between Nick Zano and I and, you know, that was that, that was that was, that was that was the hardest. The, it was the hardest day, and I got a lot of my emotions out that day.

On set? On set. On camera. I bet they came pretty easily. It was there. It didn't have to reach far for it. And so the last day I was, you know,

in the Adam suit, doing green screen, working by myself with the crew. So it was a little bit kind of a weird last day. I bet when that makeup artist, she gave her the hug when she kind of, did you go in there? I remember I used to have my head cleaned up

because it took two hours in the beginning to do everything right, you know, they figured it out. It ended up taking an hour and a half after like two years of like, because it was, you couldn't see a hairline. I had so much hair. So they shaved me, you know, and then all the, and then at the end, it took a half an hour to get it all off and warm towel and just like, you know, and I remember the last time. And I was kind of like, oh, you know, it was great. It said the crew clapped and I hugged everybody.

And, you know, I was just ready to go. I was just ready. I was like, yeah. And as I'm walking out, I looked at Natalie, I looked at her, and I just fell apart. And I just started crying and she cried and I held her because this woman, I knew her by far more than I've known anybody in my life. Yeah. I was with her all day, seven years, 10 months a year, 22 episodes a year, and it was just in that makeup trailer for two hours talking about her life. I know all her stories and her me talking about she seemed good bad everything it was just this emotion that poured out and what was great was kind of bittersweet was when I left you know it was a

couple years ago I had the show called impaster that was on for just a couple years and I got her to come work on the show and some other crew guys from smallville and um I got you know this so it was nice to see them back because there was people don't realize they're it's like family it's like you're with them more than your family absolutely family I mean that's the hardest thing we've there were a couple of people that that happened to me kind of that surprised like oh well there's that okay there's some some good strong emotion any actors that you just felt like see they would no there was no there were there were no it was I was by myself oh yeah the green screen so so it was just the crew DP probably uh yes I mean he was trying to hold it together because he had

or our first ACAM operator you know he had to keep it together and do the rest of the work and um but with makeup and hair especially that's you know you And I'm sure you were with your wife. And she wasn't there, but, but, but our first day, our last days together, we were having emotions together because of our last scenes together. And, um, you know, it's just a, I've never, I've never been in that position before. Um, and again, leaving wasn't my choice. So there's all of those, uh, feelings mixed up in there. Um, and nobody wanted, to my knowledge,

Nobody on the crew wanted to see me go. So, and they knew that it wasn't. That's because they didn't see on the road raging. I didn't see the road rage. It's because they were watching the road rage from eight years ago. Yeah. So I take that experience and I'm very grateful for it. And I have to be ready practicing all the things that I've been talking about.

This whole conversation is having that be a part of my story. that is part of my experience. And when I start to ruminate on that, I have to go, okay, but leave it there for now because it's not going to put, usually not going to put me in a good place. And you can't control it. And I can't control it anymore. I can only control my response. And my response is to go, okay, I'm thinking about it.

Now, how can I best serve myself and my family in this moment? Thinking about that or moving on and finding presence to be with my son or my wife. Well, you said something before you're grateful. I'm grateful that you came on the show today. Thanks. I'm grateful for having you. I thought this was really fun and insightful. And I mean, look, I think you're a great guy.

I think what's great is you're, you're very honest with yourself and other. I'm working to be because I don't think I always have them, you know? That's all it is. The fact that you're working on it. Just to admit that, hey, I haven't been the greatest in the past at times. I have, I think people are very forgiving. it's just about who you are now, who you're becoming. And I think that's what I'm striving for.

I think we all are. So we have to give everybody a chance to grow and to become themselves. Obviously, you can still be at fault for things and you have to make up for those mistakes. And there are ways to do that. But if we never allow anybody to grow outside of themselves, then what the heck, you know? Yeah, so guys, give me a chance. Do you know, you heard, Brandon. Give Michael a chance to evolve to give you, yeah.

Thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. Oh, thank you. It's been a pleasure. I love that episode. That was the first one on video, so I hope you guys enjoyed that. I mean, good job. The couch is different. The couch is different.

Let's just point that out. Different couch. We have a different couch now because Brandon was sitting on a different couch. We got a new couch here right now. Ryan, great job on the first episode of ever editing a podcast. Thank you. I think you did a great job, and I know you spent a lot of time in this and I probably don't pay you enough, but eventually I will if I can afford you.

I do it for the love. Yeah, I think you do. I hope you do. And I love you. Look, this is all part of like, You know, you work hard in the beginning. We work hard and hopefully things come, you know, we grow together. Yeah.

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Just like that. Yeah, we will. Shout out to my charities, Ronald McDonald House, Echoes of Hope for Foster Youth, Food on Foot for Homeless. If you ever feel like donating, that's great. Thank you for becoming a Patreon and supporting inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum and all these wonderful things that we're giving you. you i think that's about it i think we should shut the f option way shut it down let's shut

it down thank you all for allowing me to be inside of you uh take care if you have any ideas or anything we're always open to hearing your ideas and uh i'm on the cameo thing and doing all that stuff so thanks thanks for listening uh subscribe tell your friends about it retweet share it all that's going to really help and we want to keep doing this for you and keep doing it for us because we love it so take care is here. Oh, man. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience.

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