Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Buffy’s JAMES MARSTERS: Dark Side of Playing Spike

Episode Date: September 21, 2021

Making a return this week, James Marsters (Buffy, Angel) joins us for a discussion on the darker side of his method acting of the fan beloved character Spike, and exactly how it affected his relationships with others on set. James opens up more this time on the hostile working conditions on the set of Buffy the Vampire Slayer and what it was like to work with creator Joss Whedon. We talk about secret crushes on set, playing dark characters, and the possibility of a Buffy reunion. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Array! Array! The Conjuring Last Rites. Only in theater September 5th. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. I hope you guys are having an incredible week, and I really appreciate you listening to the podcast. Great guest today, James Marzder, he's been on before, but we got him in studio, and boy, was he, what's the word, forthcoming? Yeah.

Open. Honest. Talked about Joss Whedon, talked about all that stuff, which we know is in all over the media for some time and still is. And I loved having James on again. He's a great, great guest. And I'm glad he didn't get COVID because I got COVID around that time. And he didn't get it. So I would have felt bad.

Yeah. That was a troubling time. It was. But thanks for listening. I hope you guys, if you're listening for James and you haven't listened before, I hope you subscribe to the podcast. It really helps. And we're trying to build an audience here.

So a lot of great guests from the past, a lot of great guests coming up. We really open up about mental health and insulin. and life and career and it's not just a celebrity talk and I think if you listen to it you'll notice that that it's just a real conversation which I hope you'll enjoy please follow us Ryan at inside of you pod on Twitter at inside of you podcast on Instagram and Facebook that's right subscribe you could watch the videos on YouTube you could watch the whole interview and you can listen wherever you get your podcast and please subscribe writer review it helps also thanks to my patrons who give a little bit extra if you want to give a little bit extra the podcast if you're really

enjoying it you want to help out It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, dot com slash inside of you. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Join, it's an amazing little thing. A lot of people have become friends, um, from the patron, Patreon. And, uh, I hope you'll join that and help the podcast a little bit more. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Also, if you want any merch, uh, inside of you online store, great stuff.

There's a, there's Lex Luthor stuff for God's sake, small little lunchboxes. There's inside of you mugs. There's a lot of cool stuff. And also, if you want to, uh, inside of you, want to zoom me. You can zoom me at go to sunspin.com. That's my band, Sunspin. We have shows coming up. October 9th is the next show. We'll be putting something up soon. And you can get cool merch and Zoom with us. But yeah, I also will be in West Virginia this coming weekend. I'm doing a small ville nights. And I'll be signing autographs in West Virginia at the Mountaineercom.

Mountaineercom. So join me. Join me. Who said that? Darth Vader said that. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Anyway, Ryan, do you have a good week? Yes, I did. I mean, I guess they're listening. It's Tuesday. It's Tuesday. Did you have a good weekend?

I did. You know, my rec league softball is back, and you know, honestly, that makes me happy. It gives you something to do. It does. Something to look forward to. Mm-hmm. I need something to look forward to. I need to do more things.

I think I'm going to do more things. Yeah. I realized how badly I missed hanging out with people outside. I know. Well, if you need a player, will you let me know? Yeah, we'll do. All right, cool. Thank you for listening again. And please subscribe, like I said. And we'll talk to you right after the podcast is over. Let's get inside of James Marsders. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. See, you feel like you're shooting a TV show right now. You're like, how much, how much do I move? How tight are you guys on this close up?

I'm a professional. I'm a professional, Michael. You are. I know what to do. Are you one of those guys that always hits your mark that always knows what to do that never hears from anyone, James misses Mark again? No, I, I, um, and are we, we're recording. Oh, yeah.

This is because I'm going to give you the good stuff now as opposed to just the crap that I gave you with the door. No, I'm a guy that knows his lines really well. But I don't know. I'm good at the marks. But I do remember going from Buffy to Angel. And on Buffy, we were shooting film. And they were just blown out with light. So if I was within a foot of my mark, they're like, gotcha.

And on Angel, we were shooting digitally. and so they were using a lot of bounce for the fill light and it was just lower light levels and they were like James you missed your mark and I'd be off by that much and that fucks with your performance too because you can't have as much freedom right?

Exactly and I kept thinking these guys aren't very tight they're not a tight crew like they should hire people who can focus the camera and it took me about nine months well six months to think back to when I was

teenager. I had a stepfather who was a photographer and he was talking about depth of field. And a lower light level means that there's a less like a wide, for those of you at home, the wide depths of field is when, you know, I would be in focus if I'm here or if I'm here. There's a depth of field here. But with low light levels, it shrinks. And you're only in focus if you're right there. And they were a very tight crew. They knew exactly what they were doing. and I went to apologize to them and they said, yeah, well, we were confused, James, because we kept telling you we were on a long lens

and I was like, I don't know about that. I just, this one thing I know and I finally figured it out, so I'm sorry. But yeah, I'm pretty good with the technical stuff. I'm very good with the technical stuff, but I'm much better know my lines than hitting my marks. Although no one's complained. No one's complained.

No one's like, dude, he missed his mark. And you always know that too because the crew's like, yeah, you've got to hit this. mark. Sometimes, like, if I'm in a real intense scene and I've got to walk up to somebody and I have to hit this mark and be in it, I'm like, put a fucking sandbag down. Put a sandbag down because I don't want to think about hitting that mark. I want to just hit that mark and just continue with what I'm doing. You know what the sweetest thing is when the actors are giving printable takes and the crew is blowing them? I love, I love that. When the crew's blowing them? Well, you know, I mean, like,

yeah, I mean, like, there can be any number of mistakes on any take. and there's all sorts of... Hey, Blanche, quiet! Blanche understands English? Did you hear that? Do you hear her barking now? No, I don't know. She gets it. She just probably barked.

Would you hear another bark, Ryan? He did. She doesn't respect to, Michael. But when the crew blows you? No. No, no, no. That's actually uncomfortable. No, this one...

It's when the actors are giving printable takes, but the crew is the one have to say, I need another one. I know. And you know what's funny is there's such like... They're geniuses. I mean, most Cruz I worked were fantastic, and they just are perfectionists. So that takes probably fine.

It's like, ah, it was a little soft. Yeah, you know, you can cut to the other person on for a second. You know, we didn't talk about this the last time you were on. You were such a great guest, and you were so open that. I'm glad you're back. I'm glad I'm glad. And I don't really prepare anything because I was like, you know, I just wanted to talk to you. But there was a couple of things like, for instance, you know, your transition into Angel.

Was that something that they approached you early on to Joss or anybody say, hey, we have these plans for you to be on Angel? Were you surprised that they want you to be on Angel? They, he came to me, it was certainly before we finished filming Buffy. It was before the summer. And it was a few months before. So, yeah, I had some lead time. And apparently they had gotten canceled.

And Joss was trying to going back and forth with network. Well, it was canceled. Angel. Angel was canceled. And season. Going into season five. So after season four, they canceled it. And Joss was like, well, what if we do this?

Can I have another season? What if I do that? And then he found when he said, what if I can get spiked? They were like, oh, well, if you can get spike, you can go for another scene. And so he called me. Did you know that he needed you or did you not realize that? I didn't know that dynamic. That would have been a thing called leverage.

Well, I found it out, and yes. And it helped. It did, but it took a long time. And it taught me to not be angry with producers when they tried to screw me. That's so hard because you take it personally. Yeah. And I thought back to the days when I was paying actors, when I had a theater company. We only had 60 seats.

So it's the same problems, but in a smaller. I paid people $18 of performance. But that's what you had. Yeah, but that's what they had. Do you think that's, see, that's what they tell you they had? Well, here we go. Here we go. So I held out for the amount of money that I was making on Buffy.

Because Joss said, we don't have a lot of money on Angels. It's not like Buffy. We have some money. It's not a cheap show, obviously, but it's not the same as Buffy. And I told him, I said, look, when you told me that, I said, I'm not going to hold out for more than I was making on Buffy. But you're offering me less. And I didn't really think that that was going to happen. And I'm not really going to go for that.

And charisma got a phone call saying that we can't have you in for the season five, which was very painful for her. And I have to ask myself, did I, me, holding to that amount of money mean that they had to make a decision and shrink the cast? So they didn't bring her back for season five? Yeah, and partially probably to pay me. So you feel bad, even though it's not your fault. You were just getting what you thought you were worth. It's called business. Yeah, exactly.

I mean, obviously, it makes you think, oh, shit, I hope that. She has a kid. Did you ever talk to her about that? Yeah. You did? Yeah. And what did you say to her? I didn't, you know, I mean, she knows.

She's part of the business. She doesn't, you know, hold any grudges or anything. But I have a feeling that that, obviously, you know, that's, if I was signing the checks, that would be my thinking. We can only afford these many actors. And if I could have gotten James for half price, I would go to Chrism and see if she could go for half price or whatever. And maybe we could keep everybody around. But no. But you're right about you take things personally.

Like, it's hard to go on set where you're working in that atmosphere and separate business from, from, you know, you're there to also, the crew, they're working their ass off. They have nothing to do with this. The other actors have nothing to do with this. But there's this resentment that fills inside of you and you start to think I'm not appreciated, appreciated. I just, they don't really care about me. They don't, you know, so what do I do? I don't value me. So it's hard.

I remember Tom welling said because I was going through renegotiations and I remember you know I just was like they just made all these promises and they just didn't keep them and so he's like hey you know I see how upset you are like you're not your fun self you're not doing stand up to the crew you're not hanging out you're just going to your trail you're delivering your lines I'm like but they don't care the business side doesn't care as long as you're delivering your line you're lines, they don't care how happy you are. So don't let them dictate. You know, what I mean? Your happiness. And that changed my perspective in a lot of ways. Like, you know, I started thinking, you know, well, what do I do? Well, what you're doing right now is just punishing yourself. You're like, I'm not worthy. And I'm, did you go through any of that? I was playing a character that was pretty much unhappy all the time. And I was like, I was super like, Mr. Method actor. So I was getting consumed by this character. I was getting in touch with all the darkness and loneliness and isolation the whole time.

You weren't really method for Spike. Yeah. And I got to say, it's dangerous. Like, the method can be used for film because you're in and out for a specific period of time, which is usually less than a year. And when you're doing it for six or seven years, it just keeps eating you. And you just keep climbing in, especially with a character like that, Jesus. When you say method, what do you, like, explain for the audience, what you mean for a role or a series?

what are you doing that makes it method? Yeah, so the method gets kind of a bad rap because people, you know, it can mean anyway. You don't get out of character. You're that guy forever. Yeah, and you're trying, you're just building, like I was building a little tiny town in my mind called Sunnydale, and in that little tiny town

was a little tiny Buffy, and there was a little tiny Spike who loved Buffy, but she didn't love him back the way he wanted her to. And I provided all those details so that in an imagination, imaginative way, I could kind of escape into that, and it seemed real. Sean Penn calls it the box. Merrill Streep calls it the sandbox or the playpen. But it's the boundaries. It's the boundaries of Sunnydale for Buffy. And it means that once I escape into that reality, once I'm fully kind of believing,

it, you don't, you're not psychotic, you don't really believe it, but you, you, you have this detailed imaginative life. You can just kind of move within that. And in, and once you're sunk into that, you in a way, can't make a mistake. Whatever you do is kind of appropriate because you're really living, living that life. Like, um, uh, Daniel Day Lewis, who does this a lot when he did, um, uh, Lincoln. Well, everything, everything he does. Everything he does. Everything. There's one, uh, that he uh scarlet letter and he was playing a quaker i think um early protestant of some kind uh he he is playing a guy who was a carpenter and so he went to the set very early and built his own house and we learned carpentry and he lived in that house vigo morrison slept with his his horse

for lord of the rings so that there was a reality being built that you really can't act and And when you watch Daniel Day Lewis in that film, the way he uses his hands is a workman because he is now. And the way that Figo Morrison was the relationship that he had with this horse, because he played a ranger who's all about his horse, that relationship was real. So he provided that. It didn't have to be acted. It just was.

And so it's very useful for film because, you know, film is so intimate that it catches acting. Acting is basically lying. Right. It really is hungering for a real event to happen to document and is not really satisfied with anything less. And so the more that I can provide myself either through imagination or through actually doing it, the less I'm acting and the more I just have it. But for Buffy, it just ate me a lot.

Yeah, because films, for like a better word, ephemeral, you know, it's sort of like, you know, it's these four months it's this six months it's three months it's whatever it is but a series is so you don't know when you're going to get yeah and i guess you know with the hair and stuff you you you kept the hair i mean obviously it's your hair so i saw some interviews you always went on with the colored hair and you'd have to redo it every so often yeah and in a way that helps you kind of keep that character with you doesn't it i mean if you want to think about method it's like you're carrying the character with you home at night yeah yeah inside of you is brought to you by quince i love quince ryan i've told you this before i got this awesome

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at the time your loved one was like your spike? Dude, for most of the time, I didn't... I just went home. I was alone the whole time. Really? Yeah, I was, I would just go into my crypt. I would drive home and be in a little tiny apartment, study my lines, or walk on the beach alone, because that's spike.

And I didn't really consciously do that. I just realized that all of my stage acting was not really working very well for film, and I had to try a new way. And I guess I just, without consciously making the decision, just decided to just step into the character and to feel that way. But it was a lonely time. Really? Depression?

Yeah. Yeah. Personally speaking, it was not the happiest time in my life. Why is that exactly? Well, because, you know, the character of Spike is all of my darker parts, the side that I try not to inflict on the world. Right, right. Because, like, being a nice person is really the act of not telling everyone what I'm thinking

all the time, you know? Very true. Trying to give people the best of me, not the worst. And so Spike is all of the frustration, all of the loneliness, all of the anger that I have in me. And you don't want to have dinner with that guy. That guy's not fun. So you aren't fun to be around for seven years? Correct.

But. Jesus. But, you know, you combine that with the script. which is delightful and funny and sparkling and everything. And that's the character of Spike. Dynamic. Yeah. You know, I mean, like, that's true with any character.

You know, you bring what you bring, and then you add the script to that, and then that's when the character happens. But, no, I mean, the best thing that I did was I just didn't talk to anybody on the set. I was known as the ghost. Really? Yeah. I didn't know that.

So you really didn't talk to anybody. He kept yourself. I know nothing. nothing about what was going on around me. I, like, I would freak out the crew because when they said, when they say second team on a set, for those of you at home, that means that you actors can go fuck off for a while. Yeah. And when they call first team, that means we want you back close to the set. Right. And so when, as soon as they called second team, I would just go and disappear. So you never ate lunch with people for the most part. You never conversed with them about a,

unless it was about a scene and how you were going to work it. Yeah. Yeah. So you were, you were, approachable you were there if someone needed you but you just didn't prefer being around people yeah and i'm remembered as being like the very nice guy in the set you know i wasn't like you know being a dick or anything i just wasn't really hanging out with anybody and so what i would do is i would lie i would find a little dusty corner of the set within earshot of the first ad and lie down and rest close my eyes all the time all the time and if i heard either james james masters or uh first team i would just appear on my mark and the director or the ad would be just like james whoa jesus we no we didn't call first team we're just talking about you not you know you must have heard it over the walkie

yeah the first team's being a real bunch of ass and so they relaxed after a while but the cast you got along with the cast yeah they liked you they did you think probably you always you always have, you always think about what people think about you. That's what we do. I mean, that's what I do. I want people to like me. We all do. Right. But did you feel like the cast likes me? They think I'm a weirdo, all the above. I think I understood that they're both were true. I think they, I think they like me. I was easy to work with. I didn't, I didn't come in screaming. You know, I didn't, didn't have any trauma. Did you ever get upset? Did you ever lose your temper? I got upset a lot. I didn't lose my temper.

I would go back in my trailer and throw things sometimes. You would? Oh, yeah, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't. So nobody saw it? No, no. You'd scream in your trailer. You'd have to ask them. You can't recall.

Because, you know, you only remember the things that make you look good. So, I really, I'm pretty confident. Also in, you know, I see the cast at conventions or we call each other, and they always reflect back that I was always really easy to work with. and they like me a lot. So I think I'm probably right. You're probably right. I kept that nice.

I think it would have come out by now that you were a real dick. Yeah. I also saw that, you know, I know that you did a lot of love scenes or with Sarah Michelle Geller. Now, she's obviously adorable and she's great and you're working with her and you're lonely and you go home. Was there ever a time where you're like, I've got a little crush on her. I wish she liked me. The opposite. Really?

The opposite. Yeah. So. The opposite. it. Yeah. Like you didn't have a crush on her at all. Well, I had, so Spike is alive in me and Spike is in love with Buffy. Right. So that's true. But for many seasons, we weren't in love. And I came to think of Sarah as my kid's sister, who I loved very much and who drove me crazy sometimes. And I know that I drove her crazy sometimes. Of course. And we're, you know, you're working on a TV show and you're

all nobody gets sleep and you know and so you see the best and the worst in people and i and i was like i like my kid's sister but ah i wish you would do right right um and so when they said i remember i went to i went to joss and i was like look if you ever want me to take my shirt off can you not mark belucas me and just give me some give me some lead time because i can give the difference between having a body looks good in a t-shirt and the body that looks good without one is just a mountain to climb. So can you just give me a little time to get ready? And he goes, oh, well, I'm glad we're having the conversation because get ready over the summer because next season, you're going to fall in love with Buffy. And I was like, great idea, dude. I've always thought

that that was the answer because the whole, the whole truth was, is like, if you're going to put Spike in the show as a cast member, you've got to have him stop trying to kill Buffy in some way. because that was his whole reason for being. But if he keeps trying, he either succeeds and we don't have a show, which obviously you're not going to do, or he keeps failing, and that's just going to get repetitive and ridiculous. And I always thought, they put a chip in my head, which meant that I couldn't even kill a fly. And that was funny, but I thought a better idea was to have him fall in love with Buffy.

Of course, she never reciprocates. That would be ridiculous. but you can see you could you could you could have him try to win her love either to and fail either to horrific effect or comedic effect and you could run that one in many different ways and that you probably could could put together some seasons on wow and so I just assume that was what he was doing and he goes oh no no no she's going to fall for you two you're going to have sex so get ready I was like what I just couldn't see that would have excited me like oh my gosh that's great I mean, as a professional, of course, but still, I mean, you know, it's, you know, people always ask, you know, how is it like doing makeout scenes or sex scenes?

I'm like, it's work. It's not fun at all. It's like, you know, but if you're attracted to someone and it's not, it doesn't suck. I'm, I'm going to be a liar. If I'm going to sit here and go, well, it's all, you know, when I was kissing, uh, Kristen Krook, it was, it was just, it was like kissing my sister. It was gross. I was like, fucking, then I'd be a fucking liar. She's a beautiful woman and I was, it was, it was, it didn't suck. Well, this is what happened. It just did not suck. That's all I'll say. Yeah, this is what happened. So, so, uh, I have this problem. I know I'm going to have to fall in love with Sarah.

And falling in love with your sister is a weird thing to be asked to do, you know? And, uh, I went in and she was shooting a film, a scene where she's, uh, selling burgers outside the drive-thru. And she's got this ridiculous hat on, uh, for, for her job. and her character has just saved the world, obviously, died, gone to heaven, and she gets pulled back by witchcraft back down to earth. Earth, in comparison to heaven is hell. So she's in hell now. She wakes up, and now she's got this magical kid's sister out of nowhere that now she has to raise because her mother has died. Boy, this is complicated. So anyway, she's in

the shit. Right. And she has to provide for the kid's sister. And so she's working in this burger shop, and she's the freaking Slayer. She's like Superman having to sell burgers for a living. And she's not bitching about it. And she's trying to be nice to rude customers. And she's being really, really cool about being in this horrible place. And so I'm watching her film this scene. And I fall in love with Buffy.

Wow. And I was like, that's my inn. I just found it. I got it. Oh, my God. I don't have to fall in love with Sarah. I love Sarah, but not, you know. Right. And I was just sitting there kind of like this, this looking at her with misty eyes.

She turns around and goes, what? Not you two, James. Everyone's been making fun of me with this hat. I didn't think you would too. God. Then I broke her heart. And I couldn't tell her, no, I just fell in love with you, baby. No. No, I just fell in love with you. I mean, my character fell in love with you. Yeah. It sounds psychotic, but that's what it is. And yes. And so I, very much enjoyed kissing her because when I was kissing her, I was Spike. Right. And again, that imaginative world allowed me the license to admit that, yes, she's a very good person to kiss, but. All right. Good answer. Good answer. It's a good answer. You know, I hate, hate love scene. Yeah, I don't like him either. I hate that. I just feel uncomfortable because I never feel like I'm sexy. I

never feel like I look sexy, no matter what. I work out for a month. I'm like, hey, you're still Rosenbaum. You know, you're not that, you know, I don't know. I just, I'm, but I can do it. I could turn it on if I have to and hopefully they'll cut around it and make it look sexy. And they'll add some like portis head music. It's a, it's a, it's usually a glamorous scene. They want it to be glamorous in some way. And the word glamour means illusion.

So it's very far, it's far away from reality. So the shots have to look so good that it takes a lot more work to. create something that is far away from what's actually happening. So the more glamorous it is like, oh, go in and kiss her. Oh, I love you. James, you are one quarter inch too far to the left. Can you just move your mouth? Can you turn a little bit? Nope, too far. Okay, do it again. Oh, I love you. No, James. Breathments. Breathments on set, please. Yeah. And so it's such a highly technical thing. It's just very hard to act in. And then you're usually freaking naked in front of a lot of people who are not. And that's everyone's

nightmare. Everyone's had that nightmare. You're naked and everyone else has got clothes. It was just, it's like, and what is my job description this morning when you're brushing your teeth? You know? If you admit it. Yeah.

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And, you know, the whole way castmates were treated. Was it something you were privy to? Something that you noticed, something that, or did you always just feel like he was just a tough guy, knew what he wanted, was intense? What was it like for you? I'm not saying that you don't agree or you agree with whatever. Everyone had their own experience.

Everyone has their own experience. I'm not going to tell me they didn't. Exactly. That you're not telling you what, but your experience. I want to know your experience was. Yeah, my experience. Because I remember you telling me in the first interview

that there was a time where he kind of put you against the wall and said something to you. And that was like, I said, he was joking. And you go, no. So maybe just recap that briefly, but then go into what your perception was.

Yeah. So, just, in Joss's world, evil is not cool, and I really respect him for that. Vampires were just a metaphor for the challenges that you get over in your adolescence. So vampires are supposed to be overcome. And he got talked into one sexy vampire that's not going to be killed off. That was Angel. And I was supposed to come in and get killed off. And the audience immediately reacted to me in a way that was going to make it very difficult to kill me off.

And the network was telling him, oh, my God, keep this guy in the show and all of that. And he's like, I was basically ruining his show. Basically forcing him to keep you on because you were doing so well. Yes. But the thing is, is that that is going to change the show from being about a teenager overcoming adolescence into a show where those problems are kind of sexy, aren't they? all this psychotic, I was killing people all the time. I was shredding them.

And the audience was going, oh, we want more of that. And Josh was like, no, no, the point is that you overcome the evil. That's the point. So if I was in his shoes, I would have killed me off. I wouldn't have pushed me up against the wall. I just would have killed him off immediately saying, I know I told you five episodes, we'll pay you for five, but you're dead after two. Sorry, that's what I would have done.

But he didn't do that. No, he didn't. He just got frustrated and figured it out. but there was that day when he pushed me up against the wall. How did it start? Did he immediately go up to you? I don't remember. You don't remember. It's, you know, I just have this image of him.

Yeah, yeah. And he's in my face. He goes, I don't care how popular you are, kid. You are dead. You are dead. You are dead. You got me. But you never were dead. But he didn't.

Yeah, because he. So you didn't make a slight smirk to it. There wasn't, but you're dead. You're dead. No. I just said, it's your football, dude. You got, you did, you would do what you want to do. It's your call.

You know, I'm not, I'd come off of producing, so I was always on the side. I'm always on the side of production, so. Right. But your experience on set, like, you can remember like you're sitting there and you're in your head, because remember, you just told me, you're kind of a loner, you're kind of doing your own thing. So I don't know what you saw, but there were peripherally, were there kind of little things that you're like, oh, that's pretty intense, or that's...

Two things. First, I kind of, I kind of thought of him as a mad wizard. like as a wizard, like able to create magic and here's another amazing thing, but also like, you know, don't piss off Gandalf because he might, you know. Snap. Yeah, or, I don't know, snap. Well, he wouldn't tell you exactly what he's thinking. But I just remember one time I went up to him and I said, you know, it must be wonderful

to wind up this universe and watch it play out. Isn't that exciting? And he goes, yeah, it's great, James, except I have to keep winding. And so he put an enormous amount of pressure on himself. And so I saw his intensity as that, as trying to accomplish something that was a very high bar and that he most of all put the pressure on himself to deliver that. And the other thing I want to say is that I was mostly angry at him that he wasn't around. By the time I got, because I, you know, I was, he was around for my second.

season, and I was in 10 out of 22 episodes of that. The third season, I was in one episode. By season four, when I became a cast regular and was around all the time, he was off doing Angel. And by the time I was on Angel, he was off doing Firefly. So he was never, he just, he just wasn't around. And this is the thing, though. This is why I was mad, because when he did come around and direct an episode, I was never in it. I was, like the musical. Well, that isn't a yeah i had a couple of scenes in that i think i had two scenes in that but oftentimes i was i knew that i'd have the most time off if joss was directing for some reason when he came on i just wasn't very much part of you think he didn't like you that's what i thought that's what i was just like

do you still think that you still think he never liked you no not anymore no uh it's just that i think that his mind went to the original conception of the show which was his scooby gang going through machinations and overcoming things. And I'm a purist by nature as well, so I understand that his mind kind of goes back to that kind of thing. But at the time, I was like, you know. So the truth is, is there was a lot that went on that I didn't see. Really?

You just didn't see it. You would hear about things probably. Yeah. And the thing is that Spike, usually, Spike's storyline was kind of like a miniature movie within the other movie within the main movie it was a subplot so most of my scenes were with guest stars i didn't have that many you know i had scenes with the other cast members certainly but but not all the time a lot of times it was it was with another cast telling a separate story would you do a buffy reunion if they did something or a buffy movie you know if if joe

Yes. If I have, I have reticence about it, Mike, because, you know, Spike is a vampire and I'm not, you know, oh, Spike looks really good for his age. That's, that's not what you talk about a vampire. Like, what the great scene would be Buffy and Spike get back together and Spike looks exactly like he did back in the show. But they have, they have makeup. You could look a little younger. They could look, they could use things for. you know, I mean, you still look damn good, but you're not like, you know, you're not 20 years ago. I know. But I mean, like, that would, that would be amazing to see Buffy have to deal with that one. Like, Spike's still beautiful and Buffy has aged. Like, that is, that's a great scene. But that's sort of what would happen in the vampire world, right? The vampire stays young. Yes. Yes. That's one of the whole. Sleep all day, party all night. Never grow old. Never die. It's fun to be a vampire. And to take any of that away from a vampire. character is to diminish them. So that's my reticence. That's why I'm kind of like, I'm maybe the one

character where you could do, you could do another, another Buffy and see all the characters and see how they were doing now with Spike. It just, you take them down off of what makes them cool to begin with just by having me in there. So it might be, it might be best to recast it. Do you think it will happen? I don't think people have no idea. No one, wait a minute, go back. You just said recast someone. They would never recast you. They would never. Spike is spike.

I mean, they've replaced me. So, I don't know. They haven't replaced me on smallville, but they have used other Lex Luthor's, but you're a spike. Yeah, I was one of those. You're a spike from Buffy. Yeah.

I felt really guilty about doing Lex Luthor, by the way. Really. Well, when were you Lex Luthor? Oh, shit. Oh, yeah, you were the voice, right? It was just a voice for, cartoon. What do I care? There's been hundreds of, oh, I don't, I don't care anyway. I was, I was, I was, I was, I'm

sure you were great. Now I'm going to listen to it. On what? What was it on? It was a cartoon called Doomsday. Hey, fuck you, doomsday. All you had to do is call me and get better than an average video game called DC Universe Online. Yeah. But the thing that I was thinking when they offered it to me was like, I don't know if, I don't know if, I don't know. I don't know. know if I can have fun doing this character because I know that Michael Rosenbaum did so well on it. No, seriously. Like, like, okay, I would never want to do Rebel without a cause because James Dean did that perfectly. I'm never going to be a better, I don't know the name of that character in that film. I don't know. Ryan looked at me like, don't ask me. Hudson Hawk,

maybe, I don't remember. Whatever it was. I'm never going to be a better version of that character. He aced that one. So just leave that alone. Conversely, I'm not sure how good James Dean would be doing Spike. There you go. We all have the things we do well. We all have the things we do all, right. He'd probably be freaking out if he was cast as Spike. Like, man, James actually did very well on that.

I don't know if I'm going to be able to, you know, make it sing the same way. So I was just thinking, man, like, I don't know if I can have fun with it because I'm always going to be worried that I'm just down here where it's already, you know, everyone knows what can be done with the role and now I'm going to be, you know, not that. But they were paying me. Yeah, I'm always happy when I hear some. Oh, how was the voice of Lex Luthor? Of course, I go, well, I just don't know why they didn't call me, but you have a different

voice than I do. And you could do maybe a voice that they wanted her. They wanted to, I, this is acting. This is the world. I don't, I'm like, hey, man, people like, what do you think of Jesse Eisenberg? I almost said Jason. What do you think of Jason Eisenberg? I'm like, good for him.

Hey, man, he got Alex Luther. Hey, I wish you the best. Dude, I worked with him. He's a really sweet guy. he's talented fucking yeah I'm always rooting for people

deep down do I go why don't they ever give me why wouldn't they even give me an audition for it why don't they test me

maybe who would have a reason that's the only thing that I think bothers me I was like did you like me on that show

did I do a great job and if the answer is yes then why wouldn't you at least let me say let's see what he does for this well that's the only thing

that you know this is the thing bothers me as well so when I was when I was doing theater I talk about that too much, but it was, it really was a formative time of my life. I would do a lot of auditions and then out of those auditions, there's a small group of actors that I thought were really, really good. And that was my treasure chest. And I held that, that was the way I made

money, you know, and I would try to add to that treasure chest. I would audition hundreds of actors and I might find one more and I put that in the treasure box. But when I cast, I went back to that treasure box. And I find that the best directors, you see... They do that, they bring them back. Tarantino does it, Scorsese does it, a lot of the big... Spielberg does it. If you like somebody and you like working with them

and you think they're a good actor, then you work with them again, hopefully. And I think that, you know, we're in a very large market here in Los Angeles. There's millions of us. So there are a lot of very good actors. But I'm not sure how many people in town have that mentality rather than them one of, there's so many actors I will find the one that fits the image that I woke up with this morning and they will punch all the buttons. And they often find someone who will fit that but may not be as good of an actor, frankly. I remember I was directing a play called Life is a

Dream, great play. It's known as a Spanish hamlet. And this guy, Robertson Lair, who is an incredible actor, great director, smart fucking guy, with an L problem. His L is a little bit back in his quote like that, right? And he wanted to play the prince who starts as a deadly villain and then becomes a heroic romantic character. It's an incredible role. And he wanted that role so bad. And he came up to me and he goes, and he knew that I was not probably going to cast him. And he goes, let me ask you a question James what is it is it more important to have a good actor in the role or someone who fits the role and I said well Robert is it's a balancing act try to get both he goes bullshit and I'll tell you why because when you you are going to direct this thing and

you're going to go off and perform at the larger theater I know your schedule and your and your customer is going to be alone with your actors and they're going to create the product and do you want a really tight actor delivering these words or do you want a lesser actor delivering these words. And I took that to heart, and I cast him. And he was the best thing in that show. The best thing in the show. Work ethic, knew his part inside out.

He's just fucking good, everything, everything that it takes to be a good actor. He just checks all the boxes. I think a lot of times nowadays they go, Connie or John, how many Instagram followers do they have? 3.9 million? Okay, that's good. What's his IMDB rating? Oh, okay. there's a lot of things there's a lot of variables that go with that but i kind of say you know i

try to be at my age i just kind of think i'm just grateful i'm just doing my thing i'm loving you know life is best i can and trying to navigate through it that i don't have time to think about why they cast other people we both lucked out on a level we lucked out this is all we did who gives a shit i mean who gives a shit if i could say if i'm 90 years old and i say hey you know i did this muckin i did this role in this role and you're like what if you told i always say this So if you told your 10-year-old self, you're going to do this and you're going to, you would take a shit right there on the street. Right. Like all of the, all of the miracles that had to happen to us, dude, like just coming in town and getting any agent.

Yes. Any agent is like the biggest miracle in the world. To get any real job through that agency is a lightning strike. We can easily be working at Staples right now. My God, yes. Or wherever, we could easily. And by the way, I really like Staples. And I would be horrible.

I was the worst waiter. God awful. It was the only other thing I could possibly get hired for. Yeah, there was nothing else I could get hired for. I got fired from so many jobs because I was just, I was just pathetic. I was horrible. Maybe because you were miserable because you weren't doing what you love. For whatever reason, man, I was just not the one you wanted to give you the ice water. How long were you on Torchwood? Only two episodes. You just did two episodes. And they gave me a freaking action figure, dude, and I only got two episode. And I actually got resentful about that. Were you mad that they didn't bring you back for more? Yes, I was like, I rock.

Come on. Yeah, they all, yeah, and I did. And you worked with John Barrowman. Oh, I loved it, yeah. Did you hear what happened just in the news today? No. John Barrowman has opened up on why he exposed himself on the set of Torchwood, claiming it was up to him to keep the cast entertained.

The Dancing on Ice Judge has been at the center of a, anyway, his behavior on set of blah, blah, blah. It came to light this year, and the accusations of sexual harassment were made by as a former co-star, Noel Clark. All I could say on this, and you know him too, is he's a flamboyant kind of larger-than-life guy. I'm not saying any of this is okay or whatever, but, you know, he kind of just, he stayed like, you know, I had a sex scene on the show.

And so I just try to make people comfortable by just being naked and running around. And like, there's a certain flamboyance and openness and whatever. And that can certainly backfire what you did. So I just was wondering if you experienced anything like that. I did. And the thing is that he is such, this is my experience. And I can't speak to the gentleman.

Yeah, I don't know who was harassed. I don't know exactly what that entails. They obviously had a very different reaction to or a different experience. Right, right, right. I'm not going to take that away from him. But what I experienced was a man that was so sweet and so supportive, so loving, so giving, that nothing about the behavior. And I've seen his penis.

Nothing about his behavior made anyone feel uncomfortable. Nothing. Which is not to say that, I mean, I would say that his behavior was inadvisable in that it could be taken wrong by some people. You never know who you're going to upset, who you're making uncomfortable. I'm sure. You know, we all live in the decade that we live in, and we all learn from each. other and we all are each other's mirrors you know uh sartra said that in no exit we are each other's mirrors and we we we judge what's acceptable by what other people are doing and we learn from that

and and now in this decade you know i remember doing runaways and the first day of work was meeting with the lawyer uh you know hundreds of people in the theater and the lawyer talking about uh what we do now in hollywood and what we don't do around sexual stuff and i remember thinking Oh, thank Christ, thank God we're going to get all of the, there's rules now, and we can all kind of be comfortable together, and there's not going to be all this drama anymore, thank God, you know. But that's not, when I shot Torchwood, it was before all of this stuff was given to us by lawyers, before all of the people who made mistakes and we're learning together. And so I tried, for myself, I tried to not judge people.

for not knowing what we know now and not saying you should have you should have been where we are now 10 or was it 15 years ago right it's not that long ago but at the same time it it it seemed very risque but also sort of acceptable at the time well you heard robin williams on the set of morke and mindy he would run around naked constantly really and he wasn't doing it to in a sexual way. And again, I'm not saying, I'm just saying if you know Robin Williams and you look at Robin Williams and he's running out of, oh, look at me. I'm naked. And he's like, oh my God. He's in he's, he's out of his mind. He is. He's an eccentric person. And it's better if we don't do that stuff. And we know that now. Right. Yeah. Back then he's, you know, this is better. I'm here

to say, I was much more relaxed on runaways than any other show because of this, because of me too, because of all the things that we're teaching each other. You have to. You just have to. yeah and so if he could go back in time he probably said keep the pants on today john you know he probably would do i have a sex scene i know well whatever it was i mean the person got uncomfortable and um you're you're right though you make a good point it's like we know now it's like well no your behavior then you should have known we all make mistakes we've all said things that we regret we're human things when are we going to get a break if we really apologize and want to be a better person yeah and it's it you know even historically you know i think because we're

we're looking back now on on political figures you know especially the founding fathers and we're really coming to terms with a lot of them had slaves you know and we're recognizing and and i i think that slavery is the the one of the worst things that humanity has ever come up with uh 350 million people died of slavery that's that's a lot of blood in the ground man and we're still dealing with that yeah and we're recognizing that there is a there is an inherent hypocrisy between the documents that we started with and the behavior of the people who wrote them. Absolutely. And I have to think of how is my generation going to be thought of in 100 years?

And they're going to look back at our behavior and say, they were monsters. What are those issues? And I think the way we treat animals, the way we treat the planet, and things that I can't even conceive of. 100 years will we be here? That's the thing. There's stuff that I'm not even conceiving of that we're going to be judged on, but I'm a part of my time. I'm doing the best I can.

I'm trying to be a moral person with what I've got now. Yeah. I get mad at myself because I think, I always think, I'm doing the best I can. And I'm like, are you though? Yeah. Are you fucking really doing the best you can? Good for you. Are you doing enough charitable work?

Are you doing enough? No, you're just not. Good for you. If you're doing what you can, no. By the way, how are you doing? I mean, it's been a, has it been a rough year for you? Oh, no. Pandemic?

Bag of shells. Well, yeah, it's been tough. It's been tough for everybody. I mean, everybody's had their time. But how are you holding up? I, very well, I gotta say. Are you? Yeah, yeah.

I, uh, I'm a gamer. So I was like, oh, I have to stay in, in, in, this is such a change. I'm going to stay in my bedroom and play video games. Like, I was just, okay, I get to do more of that. Right. Uh, you know, I mean, it was scary and, uh, certainly the convulsions in the country, uh, were scary as well. Uh, so there was some stress eating. I won't lie. Yeah. You know, um, but, you know, in general, um, my family's doing well. I'm doing well. We both, we're everyone's still

here. I'm very lucky. Um, most of my friends are still with us. And what's, uh, what's, what's, what's next? Are you, are you working on anything? I know you're always working on something. You're always writing, you're trying to produce things, you're... Yeah. And what do you want to do? I don't know, man. I'm hoping that a... I shot six episodes of an update of upstairs downstairs in Napa Valley during the pandemic. And I hope that that gets picked up. It was really weird. They decided to shoot six pilots, six episodes. And I think it's because they had a really good relationship with Warner Bros. And

and they really were being told that they had a very good chance of this getting picked up on one of the streaming platforms. Upstairs, downstairs, downstairs. Yeah, that was an English show about an English manner where you have all the rich people on one side, you have all the servants on the other, and there's a gulf in between, and they're all human beings. And we recognize them as full human beings, even though there's a gulf. And so this update is the rich people are wine growers and ranchers up in Napa Valley, and the servants are the Latinos who work the land. And there's a gulf, but they're all human,

whether they recognize it or not. And I just thought, what a genius update, especially right now to kind of make that point. Like, we're all human beings. No matter what the gulf is, we're all human beings here. So, yeah, yeah. I hope that gets picked up. And I get to play a douchebag, you know, for a chain.

Really? Yeah. Good on you. Lovable, I would argue. They got to be lovable. It can't just be a douchebag. It's got to be lovable. Hey, this is shit talking with James Marsders.

These are from my lovable patrons. You could join patron. Patreon.com slash inside of you. And I'll write you a message after you join. It supports the podcast. These are rapid fire or whatever you want. Kelly asks, which fellow castmate did you become closest with in Buffy? Tony Head.

Amber Benson. Amber Benson. Yeah, I would have said Tony Head, but Amber Benson. because we did Chants Together, which is a movie that she wrote, produced, directed, and started. And she asked you to be in it. Yeah. Wow. And I came to respect her deeply because I produced on a dime when I was doing theater.

It was not expensive, not a big budget. And she got a really good film out of almost nothing. And she was so smart about how she approached the entire process. So, yeah, I came to love and respect her very much. Maya P, what is the most rewarding moment of your career? There are so many. There's so many. My God.

How can I choose between my children, Michael? There has to be one. No. That's hard. That's hard. That's a hard one. Okay. Well, I can just pull stuff that I've enjoyed.

So there was a, I did a six-hour original play about the French Revolution. Six-hour play. back when Nicholas Nickleby was popular and I was in Chicago and stand up at an hour. Oh, it was so delightful. It was, it was, so we spent like the normal six-week rehearsal process getting the first three hours ready and we opened that. And then the playwright was struggling with the second part. He was supposed to deliver on opening night so we could start rehearsal. Opening night of the first three hours, deliver the second three hours and we'd start rehearsal at the same time. And he didn't. And we had about a, I think we had about a week

half to two weeks to rehearse the second part before we put it up. And, uh, and that was stressful. And I was playing the lead and I was just basically on stage the whole time. Six hours of lines. Yeah, yeah. And, and, and, and, and, and, and, uh, I remember kind of freaking out. And, and then we go to open the second half and we have no rehearsal, you know, and, and all of the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the lighting queues. get dumped out of the computer. And we have all of the critics, because the first half was a kind of a hit, and everybody was really excited about the play. And so all of the major papers, the Tribune was there, all of the big people, the Sun-Times,

was there waiting. And we don't have any light grids. And the thing is that all of the visuals for the play were all lighting because we're changing. You know, we go from France to England. We go here and there, and you can't change out sets. So it's all different lighting, and it's very complex lighting, and it's all gone. And the director just comes backstage, and he's like, well, we're just going to bring up the house lights so they can see your face and let's go, guys. We got to go.

And you did it like that? And we did it, and we got a huge standing ovation. And I realized, if you have a good script and you have actors who know what to do with it, you can create a product. and you can see their eyes, and there's just enough light to see them, you can create a product that's worth money in theater, you know. That's great. That was pretty good. That's the highlight.

This is interesting. Jason B., what are your thoughts on technology advancements that allow actors to not only reprise their roles with their youth restored, if they wish, but can actually allow stars to be in films and shows after their death? How do you feel about all that? Well, first of all. Perry Fisher or like we were talking about making you look younger a spike, if you prefer. I don't think we're there yet.

I don't think I have not yet seen a credible instance of this happening. Legulus in Lord of the Rings didn't. Well, how about Brad Pitt and Tarantino film? He looked younger. You know what? Oh, yeah. Yeah, him and DeCaprio, right? Yeah, I'll give you that one.

They definitely looked younger. They definitely... That one did work and... They're improving. There are improving. And also, Irishman was the big one. Oh, yeah. You know what, though? That kind of bothered me. I didn't like it. I didn't like it. Carrie Fisher, I didn't buy. I didn't even buy the new Luke Skywalker, even though I wanted to buy. You mean a Mandalorian? Yeah. I want to. I kind of gave in. Well, that's, I was, that's exactly what I was going to say. I was like, I was so invested and so excited in that moment that I was like, I don't care. I'm there anyway. But if I'm really honest about it, the technology, as impressive as it was, just not quite to the. the point where I am not, I'm just, I don't know, I don't have to cross any gulf to buy in. Right. So, but we're going to get there.

What's your favorite show on TV right now? Or what are the shows that you're watching? You like games. See, I just can't keep up. Ever since it was just, I like up, down, left, right, red button. It's hard for me. That's easy for me, but. I like to be an interactive part of the story where I can decide, I'm going to talk to you.

No, I'm not. Well, what game? Right now, I'm playing the new Assassin's Creed again because it's so beautiful. I have that, but I can't even, I don't know what I'm doing. It's so hard. I'm like, I just wasted four hours. My neck hurts, and I haven't moved an inch. Just put it on easy, man.

Why is it so hard? Just put the difficulty on easy and whip up on it. My favorite game of all time is Wolfenstein 2. Is that like a Castlevania kind of feel? No. It's a total upstate. The original was probably like that. It was a first-person shooter and you just basically, you know, a long time ago shot a bunch of Nazis. But this one is about what if Germany won World War II and then came and invaded and took over the U.S. And half of the U.S. is just fine with that. Oh, boy. So it's like kind of in a way, the Civil War. It is another, yeah. You know what I mean? And it's a way from where I'm coming from of admitting where we are as a country.

Just split down the middle. Yeah. And you get to go down. I think it's in Louisiana. And there are people running around with hoods, white hoods, and you get to shoot them. You do. I replay that level a lot. Wolfenstein 2.

The Wolfenstein 1 is amazing. great game and it's again about killing Nazis but you're over I like I like the Nazi idea of killing Nazis that's it's always fun that I always love Nazi movies I always love you know inglorious bastards I always love documentaries about that stuff I'm fascinated by it because it's such an astonishing time in history that I think you're just it's like you can't get any more evil than that I mean you can but they're great yeah well that's the thing is how can you get how can you get the audience comfortable with killing people and you know if you can get someone really villainous then it feels good, you know. And so that, just on a conceptual level of having me look at my own country

in an honest way, and also just it's fun to kill people in hoods. I'll be honest. By the way, Leanne P. asks, I mean, we talked about the controversy regarding Buffy and your fellow castmates. But have you reached out to any of them after all that? I reached out to Sarah but that was just texting that's it I put out a again you know I feel like I'm I am I put out like on Twitter and Facebook

I put out support right you know you did yeah towards the cast members yeah and Sarah couldn't believe it's like you didn't know about that stuff going on and I was like I was just thinking about me. I'm sorry. I was just into character.

She's like, oh, yeah, you were that guy, yeah. But that's it. Yeah. That's it, really. Yeah. But you would do a Buffy reunion. You said you would. If a script could come that would be delightful,

that could incorporate the fact that Spike has aged. Can't vampires age if they want to? Can I gain a few years because I loved you so much, Buffy, that I aged a few years to be... Or he's just... He's just cannot accept the fact that he's aging. That he's just... I look horrible. Oh, my God.

I'm just folding a pot. Because he's like, at this point, 150 years old. He's at 130 years of not aging at all. And suddenly... Oh, my God! Jesus. You know, Spike, you look fine. For my age!

You know, that would be kind of hilarious. but it would have to be on the page that would have to be dealt with in a way that was very, very delightful. It was boring, honest, cool to work with? Yeah. You got along really well? Yeah.

You didn't really hang out. Nope. Didn't hang out but worked well together. Always, well, in fact, he, I was really jealous of him in the beginning because my girlfriend told me that she had a crush on him, so I hated him. But he was nice to me from the very beginning.

Like, he was the one to go over to my little trailer and say, hey, man, can I show you where the bathroom is? can I, you know, this is where we keep the coffee and you're doing so well. I imagine the same thing is going to happen for you as did for me, which is I started out in the Skack Sam's trailer you're in now, a little triple-banger, and now I have a bigger trailer. And I suspect next year you're going to, you know, you're going to move up. And how nice?

So nice all the time. That's good. A good leader. Yeah. Yeah. And he was just a workhorse on Angel, you know. That's awesome. Yeah.

I remember there was one episode where I was the lead on a. And he had kind of, I think he had the week off. And I just got toasted. And I came back after shooting that. It was Monday again. We were starting a new episode. And I just sat down next to him. I was like, how do you do it, man?

I don't, how do you keep showing? Seriously, how do they do it? I don't, I don't ever want to be the lead on a one-hour series, especially network television. I just don't. I'll never do it. Yeah. And I say never, I'll never do that. I would never do that.

I just can't do it. I'm stupid enough to try, but I don't, I kind of hope I'm never asked. It would just be the. death of me. Michael Rosenbaum, 55 years old, dies on set of absolute exhaustion. Yeah. I don't want to be that guy. I'd rather be the interesting guy who gets the morning off, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but be the third lead, fourth lead, fifth lead, come in there, kill it, crush it, leave, see ya. Let's do it. Let's, character actors, thank you. Character, thank you. Last question. Your audition, I think we might have talked about this, but was the accent your idea or was it they wanted someone

English. They wanted someone in English. They, they, uh, they asked, did you tell them you were English or they knew you weren't English? No, they knew I wasn't. Um, and, and it, he wanted a, uh, an original London punk rock vampire. That's what he wanted. That was, did you really work on that accent? No, um, I got the audition. The, the day that I auditioned, I think that there was four days until filming. They had their backs up against the wall. They'd been looking for someone for a long time and hadn't found them. And so the call, I guess, went out around town, scraped the bottom. of the barrel, you know, and they found me down there. So I pulled out the accent that I had just from doing plays, you know, I kind of have a workable, you know, accents that I would get

cast as, you know, and so I had a good enough one to audition with. Do you remember the lines? Do you remember any of those lines that you first said, the first words you uttered on maybe on audition or, or maybe your first words on Buffy? You were there. If everyone who said he was at Woodstock was actually no if everyone who was at obviously not well hang on you were there you were there you were there if everyone who said they were

at the crucifixion actually was there it would have been like Woodstock you know that was the first thing that was one of the first things that's the one I remember that's such a good accent though I mean people applauded that didn't they they love the accent yeah it got better I mean like if you do anything

for six or seven years you're gonna get pretty good if we decided to juggle. I imagine in seven years we'd be really good, you know, so. Did you find yourself on dates going, yes, I like a large glass of, did you ever do that? Did you ever accidentally jump in you? Oh, I'm so sorry. I remember one time I was with a girlfriend in Canada, who's also an actor, and we decided to have English accents just walking around a mall. We got invited to three parties in half an hour. Are you serious? Oh, my God. Wow, they really do like English people, yeah. Well, this was a treat. I like, I like being in person with you. I like to see you and

talk to you, and I'm so glad you're doing well, and you look great. You look better than you did last time. I just had surgery, so I don't look that great, but I'm doing fine. Yeah. Everything's great. Okay. Okay. What kind of surgery? That was a little back surgery. They just went in there, and they took some things out that didn't belong in there. And now I'm just healing, but should be good to go very soon. Kick ass. Well, you look like you're still doing sit-ups, which is impossible. I'm not really doing sit-ups. Ryan's laughing. He's like, he's the sit-ups. Sit down. He's doing sit downs.

James Mars, just thank you for allowing me to be inside of you once again. This is a treat. You're so kind when you're inside. Thank you. A great guest. Really good. Really good. Just enjoy you.

He's one of the few guests that don't say, hey, cut this out. He just says what he wants. He knows what he's saying. He doesn't have any regrets. And he says it. And I like that. It makes our job easier, doesn't it? He was really easy.

easy to talk to. And I really appreciate you, James, Jimmy, for coming over. You're welcome any time. You're a really fun guest to have on the podcast. And again, join patreon.com slash inside of you. That's where you can go to join Patreon and become one of my top tier patrons or just someone who's giving a little bit more back to the podcast. Go to Patreon, p-at-r-o-n.com slash inside of you. And don't forget the inside of you online store if you want any merch or go to sunspin.com. It's my band. You can zoom with me. get merch there for the band. We've got some really cool shirts and hats and a bunch of other things. Stephen and Mel has been wearing my Sunspin hat on every interview on anything he's been doing. So if you want a Sunspin hat that Stephen and Mel's been wearing, go to sunspin.com.

And if you want Stephen Amel's hats, tough. Exactly. Tough. Tough. Yeah, I really appreciated James coming in. That was fun. Yeah, it was good. It's good to have people in again. Why don't we read our top tier patrons And just a reminder to subscribe and follow us on Instagram at Inside of You podcast and Facebook at Inside You podcast and at Inside of You pod on the Twitter, write a review, do all that stuff, help the podcast out. Will you, folks? And I'll be in West Virginia this coming weekend to do a small bill night, signing autographs, taking pictures. We can talk about the podcast because I talk about anything you want. I'm also on the cameo.

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Folks, I love you listening to every week, tuning in. I know there are a lot of podcasts. out there but hopefully you're enjoying this when you learn something from it helps you out in some way thank you for all your letters thank you for all your kind comments and um you know we're still doing it so and thank you big shout out to my our editor here jason jason doing a great job when you say ryan i think he's kicking ass uh he's doing a great job doing a great job ryan thanks for being here with me course and uh ryan helped me today we did a podcast and he had a good uh question for one of the guests and interjected at the end and i'm glad he did i told him to interject whenever he I remembered something. You remembered something and I appreciate your remembering. You're

your memory. You're welcome. Thank you, Bryce. I love you, buddy. And from myself, Michael Rosenbaum. And myself, Ryan Teith. Up here in the Hollywood Hills of California, waving at the camera. Thank you for allowing me to be inside each and every one of you. And I hope you have a glorious week. Be good to yourselves. And that's it. I love you. Thanks. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy

a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamins, follow and listen on your favorite platform. Thank you.