Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Chris Sullivan

Episode Date: February 19, 2019

Chris Sullivan (This Is Us, Camping, Guardians of the Galaxy) discusses growing up in Sacramento and going to a progressive Catholic Church, how he stopped drinking 2 and a half years ago, and how big The Knick was for his career. Chris opens up about living in conscious gratitude, how anxiety affects him and how he overcomes it, and the new album he’s recording with Taylor Goldsmith from Dawes. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellar lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. You're listening inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Robert Hollis, the third, is with me here. Yep, the third. Are you the third? No.

It's just one Rob Hollis? Yeah. Is one enough? But my dad, my dad is, so I'm Robert Gregory. My dad is Gregory Robert. So. Do you think he sat there smoking a joint going, I got this idea.

I'm Gregory Robert, but my son will be Robert Gregory. If you knew my dad, that's definitely not. He doesn't smoke? Does he snort riddling? No. What does he do? None of those things. Thanks.

He's just a nice guy, nice old man. Yeah. My dad's a grumpy old guy. How old your dad? He was born in 45, so he's in a 70s. 65, 74. Holy crap. How old are you?

You're 29? 30. Yeah, but I'm 16 years older than you, and my dad is 10 years younger than your dad. Yeah, my dad. What the hell? This explains a lot. I think when older guys have kids, their kids are like, what I've known is, from friends that have dads that are older when they had them later, they're just, uh, methodical?

Maybe, maybe. I don't know what the word is. Guys help me out with that word. Hey, thanks for subscribing. Continue to subscribe. And tell your friends. Tell your friends. Rob, listen, listen to Rob for a change. Rob, tell them what to do. Yeah, Michael doesn't listen. So tell your friends to subscribe. So Michael can keep making this show because he wants to quit. You keep saying I want to quit. It's not that I want to quit. I'm going to keep going with the show. But, you know, if you guys could tell five other people, because I think we're bringing in pretty good guests, pretty great guests. And they're interesting conversations. And I think people who do listen, love it.

And I thank you guys dearly for that. But, you know, we'd like, we'd love to get more listeners. And if you could do that, help, you know, at work, you say, hey, grab their phone, subscribe. Great podcast today. Steal, steal five people's phones. Yes. And subscribe for Michael. Exactly.

That would really help in writer review. I really love you guys. Thank you. Today, Chris Sullivan from This Is Us, The Tick. He's the voice of the hump day camel. Hump Day! Hey, guess what today is? It's not

No, it's Thursday Yeah, he does the voice of the hump camel He's been in tons of stuff And we were in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 together He had a bigger part And we became friends Had him on the podcast And he's just a wonderful human being

I really think you're going to dig this Because talk about a genuine guy With a lot of cool stories married I look up to this dude He kind of keeps me grounded Let's get inside Chris Sullivan It's my point of you You're listening to

You inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. When I was outside, I actually opened the garage door and I took off on my scooter. And that's when I saw you racing up the hill. And you have like sort of a cop car. Three minutes before podcast time and you're not preparing. You're zipping around the neighborhood on your... scooter on your honda fat scooter no it's a fat scooter they're badass and they gave it to me free and

fat i love this yeah pha t p hatt i love this thing fat scooters it did look like a really cool scooter right maybe you can get one i don't know i don't know i don't know if if i live i live by the beach and i need a little something to zip around it's got beach mode it's got like uh see i mean look it's not even an expensive one but it gave it to me for free i mean this is a great little scooter but anyway i'll get you on oh by the way thank you for allowing me to be inside of you Chris Sullivan is my great pleasure. This is a treat. Where do we meet?

Where do we first meet? I think you know, that's easy. I mean, do we first meet on set? I think we met in Atlanta on Guardians of the Galaxy, too. Yeah, yeah. And you were dressed up as taser face. Taser face. You didn't meet me in person in my own flesh until we went and had dinner.

Is that true? I think so. I think that was the first time we met. Dinner, we had dinner. James Gunn took us all out to dinner in Atlanta. Yeah. I had to go back to set on my day off just to introduce me. myself to people out of makeup because I would arrive at 5.30 in the morning. So no one knew what you

looked like? No, not at all. How many hours were you in makeup? I know that's a question you've asked all the time. Not, not, not, not, my makeup was not so bad because it was just my head. It started like three and a half hours and they got it down by the time we were done like two and a half hours. That's still a lot. That's about what I had when I had to shave my head. Did you believe just shaving your head and putting three layers of makeup took them two hours in the first couple years to figure that out? But why three layers? Because you weren't supposed to see a hair line on Lex Luthor. Right, right, right, right. But anyway, so how many months were you on Guardians of the Galaxy?

Like a month? That's it. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of the old in and out. Like 18. Yeah, a bit of the old in and out. Yeah. I think I went into makeup 18 times.

That's not that bad. So 18 times three is, you know, roughly 50 hours of makeup. Yeah. Not so bad. Not so bad. Karen Gillen was getting picked up at her hotel at 1 o'clock in the morning. Yeah, she's a good spirit, man. She goes with the flow.

Yeah. She's young, though. I think that's what happens. When you're young, you kind of go with it. And well paid. Well, paid more, more than you. I mean, I don't know. I'm only assuming she's the main character.

It seems like a taser face character. You probably, you're just excited to be a part of that. And they probably didn't offer you a lot of money for it. That's correct. They probably said, hey, if you want to play this role in a huge movie, you'll probably get more in residuals than you will getting paid. Correct. Yeah. We're going to pay you not scale, but maybe $10,000 a week.

We're going to, we're going to give you the opportunity to hang out with these people and maybe have dinner with Michael Rosenbaum. Oh, and that happened. And I was like, I'm in. Yeah, I appreciate that. But we, we kind of hit it off. You were just a nice guy. We had some laughs at dinner, but we didn't really, I didn't know that we would then be a couple of months, maybe a year down the road, finally sitting down and having lunch together. Yeah. Which was enormous for me, because you meet a lot of people, but then you, there's a few that you just, that resonate, just like, hey, I can actually hang out with this guy. Yeah. This guy rolls up in a cop car. You know, he's, uh, we riff in the same rhythms we riff i think you're smarter than me well i don't know about that yeah i think

you're a bright guy what i don't think i'm an idiot what does smart mean to you uh well you're not quick and witty was which is a sense of um intelligence but i think you're actually genuine you're thinker yeah i think you are too i think that's why i don't know i here's what i think i think certain things and then you'll say something and i go oh yeah i agree with that though i'm going to change what i thought i think maybe that's maturity maybe that's being like a i'm wrong I think it's less about being a thinking person and, and I've, and this is new for me. Like I've, like, yeah. Yes, in the past, in the past few years.

Okay. Um, becoming less of a, uh, a person with ideas and more of a person with questions. I try to be more curious. Who am I? What am I? No, who are you? Who are you? Yes, yes.

Well, maybe we can get inside each other today. I hope so. I'm excited about this. Um, so we met and, you know, what, one of the things that struck me, as not only being kind and supportive like in the industry it's always nice when someone says a comment unsolicited online about another person when they're like for instance you said I love your podcast this is one of my favorite podcasts I didn't ask you to say that no I didn't ask you to listen to it you just said it and it was a picture of me on your

Twitter feed mm-hmm which is at Sullivan Graham's Sullivan Graham's that's not like Heather Graham it's G-R-A-M-M-S yeah that's right yes yes I was taken aback I was I thought that was sweet and it made me feel like I'm doing something right when someone you respect someone who's a working actor or someone who's talented as you to say hey I like what you're doing that that made me feel good I'm glad I'm glad it made you feel nice um I think you made me feel nice and I wanted to share that with uh with anyone who would listen I think there's a lot of people around us who are being creative and when they're doing that it's nice to to give that creativity a friendly ear tell me why because tell me why you like you want to get deep inside me real quick I think that uh

What was it that you were listening, yes, said, oh, you know what, this is... Well, on a grander scale, I think that creativity for me is where we are all connected. I believe that that is, for lack of a more common term, the God energy lives. Right. And when we are creating, we are connected. And the best way to connect with a person is on their creative level and to offer them your creative self. And so if you got a podcast, if you got music, I want to hear it. and to see what you're all about.

Yeah, yeah, and here you are. And here we are. And now I'm in your basement. Yeah, which is nice. We're here with Rob. So far you haven't heard anything great about Rob, but he is great. I mean, I've listened to all the, all of the podcast episodes. You've listened to all of them?

Well, that's not true. I shouldn't say all. Which is your favorite so far? Dax was a good one. Dax was a good one. Yeah, he got a lot of hits, a lot of downloads on that one. Yeah, he's a fascinating guy. I like him very much.

Yeah, he's a good. dude. Rob, he also does Dax's podcast on the side. I've heard. You heard that from me. I don't listen to Dax's podcast, but I like Dax very much. I appreciate that. I don't listen to this one. No, really? That's nice. You listen to others. I mean. So let me ask you something. You seem like, you know, we talked briefly about this, but growing up, you didn't have, you were in a dark place for a while in your life. Sure. I mean, you've had those. Sure. But let's rewind. That means, did you have a good upbringing? Oh, totally, totally. I grew up in Northern California in Sacramento. I was born down here.

I was born in Palm Springs, in the desert. Really? In Indio. Was your family well off? We never, I don't think I ever wanted for anything. We were middle class, middle upper class. My dad was working for the city of Desert Hot Springs as a city planner, then worked as a home builder.

And we moved to Sacramento in 1986, and I lived up there, public schools. until high school where I went to Jesuit high school Were you religious? I grew up Methodist Well, I get confused by all these things Like Jesuit, Methodist What is it?

I mean, I don't want you to talk about religion Too long here. No, Jesuit, the Jesuits are probably The most progressive and liberal sect Of the, if sect is even the right word Of the Catholic Church. Right. The current Pope is a Jesuit.

They have dedicated their lives to education. And do you still do that? Do you still practice that in a way? Or do you just have a respect for it? I have a respect for it. I ended up going to a Jesuit college as well. I went to Loyola and Marymount here.

Ah, yeah. And Methodist, the Methodist church is a Protestant sect of Christianity that is also very liberal. A lot of our, the congregation I grew up in was very small, very diverse through race, sexuality. I believe one of our one of our ministers was was gay at one point which you know in the in the 90s I mean before the 90s any before I mean it's always difficult I mean as a kid I did I guess I didn't even realize there was anything out of the ordinary about it because it was just our church but but so your parents were pretty liberal so they taught you sort of like respect everybody yeah yeah it was a pretty It was a pretty well-rounded and active child.

And they were good role models. Yeah. Mom and Dad. Yeah, very much. Brothers and sisters. I have a younger brother who lives here in Los Angeles. You guys close? Yeah.

We don't hang out too terribly much, but... My brother and I, my brother lives here, and we don't hang out a lot. We used to open a restaurant with some friends called The Rye Fox, which I have to plug on Beverly, which is dope, great food. great atmosphere check that shit out folks i come by a lot we could talk the rye fox the rye fox it's it's badass the rye fox ask for my brother eric say hello don't harass him or you can um but you know i love him i do anything for him he worked on the movie i directed he's i'm there for him but i don't see him a lot and he's right around the corner sure is that similar to you yeah it's very it's very

similar we we owns a bar your brother he owns a bar called the guy fox the guy fox um we have we have we have two different circles of friends even though even though you know a decade ago they were the same circle but i moved off to chicago and new york and kind of uh our lives just kind of took us in two separate directions and like you said i would do absolutely anything for them we are there for each other when we need each other but it's not it's not like a daily check-in a lot of people have that type of relationship with with family members and for whatever reason i don't know i don't what that is. What is that? I don't know. I think there's that, you know, I think here's what I'm, I probably, I feel like you're just two different people. Because, look, Rob and I are two different people, obviously. Yeah, we're not one person. No, he's 29, he's got a kid, he's got a wife. You know, we don't hang out all the time, but we like softball. So occasionally we have softball, plus we work together. So it's a different thing. Right. But we're two different people. My brother and I are two different people. He's, you know, he likes to booze a little bit. He likes to party down. I don't know. Maybe I'm boring. Are you boring? Are you more boring than maybe. No, I your brother a partier? I think there's

my brother's not. I used to be, now I'm not. I've quieted down as the senior years have approached. There's an intention that goes into relationships and there are the people who you are around. It's easy with friendships to realize like

oh, this was a friendship of convenience or even better word, a friendship of proximity. We were around each other for however long, whether it was school or other wise but when we are taken out of proximity of one another right how much do we come back to each other uh willingly and it takes energy it takes effort it takes it takes a certain level of

consciousness to be like where do i want to spend my energies where do who do i want to invest in you don't do it for this reason but who is also uh investing back this is a great conversation piece this is to me this is kind of like you hit something here which we don't talk about but i also just when you were talking i felt like wow i nailed it i know why my brother and i don't hang out now i know the answer say it i really feel like he thinks i'm boring i think that when we hang out you know he'll hang out he'll go i'll get all my friends together and we'll go uh to six flags for my birthday we'll have the olive garden every year yeah same time i'll organize softball games i'll have thanksgiving i'll have like events i'll have movie nights

sure my brother's like it bores him he's like you know i want to go out to a bar i want to hit it with my friends. I want to go to a dead concert. I want to go to a fish concert. I want to get drunk. I want to party. And you're boring. I think he's, like, I don't think he's boring. I wish that he would just enjoy the world I live in where I don't party a lot. And I think maybe there's part of me that feels like he thinks I judge him a little bit. And that's not entirely wrong. It's not that I judge him. I just don't want to be around him when he's drunk. I love him. I think he's a brilliant, beautiful human being, a heart of gold. I learn a lot from him. But I think that he feels like, you know, if he has a couple more beers and he gets drunk, I don't like

seeing him like that. Do you got, have you talked about that? We've had that in the past. I don't, it's been so long since I've seen him sort of like that. So I'm sure he still, you know, gets, so I, I worry about him and I don't want to worry about. I'm like, my problem is in life is I worry about people. Younger brother? Younger brother. He's six years younger, but I worry about people. I worry about my mom. I worry about my dog too much. I worry about things that haven't happened. I'm working on that. And do you think people pick up on that? Do you think, They can feel you worrying about them. Well, or they can feel like I'm inadvertently judging.

Well, the worry comes across as, as uncertainty as to this person's choices or uncertainty as to this person's path. Yes, and you know what I do? I was talking to this girl recently. And we were just talking to the phone. No. And she's like, yeah, this is, I'm just, I'm on my fourth glass of champagne. And I hadn't even been on a date with it.

We were just talking. I was like, oh, cool. Cool. Do you? And then immediately my brain, I go, um, do you? um do so are you a big drinker um you know and i'm like oh shit she's a good drinker i don't want to deal with that well i drink i like to have a glass of wine or two a night you know before i you know i'm like that sounds like an alcoholic you know and i'm starting to think i'm starting to judge

but here's the thing i'm not judging i'm just going do i want to go out with someone who drinks a lot sure so i'm gauging is is wrong no is the is the is the desire to sit at home alone and drink four glasses of champagne, does that indicate the other types of choices that a person makes in their life? Yes. I mean, maybe. I mean, maybe. Maybe. Well, I don't do that. I might take a puff off a joint. Hey. I might have a beer. Hey. But I'm not going to lose control. And I don't need to do it every night. Again, it's only a problem if it makes your life unmanageable. Well, you're someone I could take advice from because adding a lot of people out there could take advice. Because you don't drink anymore, do you? No. You don't do drugs anymore?

Nope, stopped all that two and a half years ago. When did that start? What did the drinking and all that start? Late, I mean, quote unquote, late for me, probably when I was about 1920. So right out of high school, you were good, you were good in grade school. Yeah, I was an athlete. Football? Tennis.

Are you effing kidding me? Yeah, can you believe that? I played varsity tennis one year before I quit to play some hockey. Yeah, I played, I went to Loyola Marymount on a scholarship. for tennis? Yeah. Can we play tennis? Of course we can.

I'm about to join the tennis club up there. Of course we can. Don't think I'm like a little hoity-toity actor guy. I'm just, I like tennis. I don't own a pool. I don't think anybody believes that you're hoity-to-y. Well, I don't want him to think of, oh, lucky he's joining a tennis club. Who's at the tennis club?

Who's at Dan Fogelbergo there? You guys don't even know Dan Fogelberg. Fuck. But you don't, you know, Dan Fogelberg, right? Yes. The leader of the band is tied and his eyes are rolling old. And a lot of people. confusing with Dan Fogelman who's

who's the runner of my show I know people will frequently frequently be like oh like Dan Fogelberg oh my god you do music and TV yeah he does a lot Fogelman's done a ton of shit but but yeah so I played I played tennis all through my youth and then had had my schedule and freshman year of college was tennis practice five to eight eight a.m. to noon classes Back to tennis practice in the afternoon, dinner, and then I was a theater major, and so all theater rehearsals are in the evening. Wait, wait, wait, did you have any time of sleep?

No. And so I would go to theater rehearsal from 7 to 10, 11 midnight, and then crash. I'm getting anxiety. Yeah. Well, I had a bit of a nervous breakdown about halfway through freshman year and was like, I got to pick one of these things. And, you know, professional actor, professional athlete. Could you have gone to play? I could have gone.

I could have. I mean, you're a big dude. I could have, if I had stayed healthy and if I had committed, I could have played professionally. I could have played on a tour. I wouldn't have been anything of note. And I probably would have enjoyed coaching, but. I can't wait to smack some balls with you. Yeah.

I really can't wait to just stroke some. I have two really good wooden rackets. We could play with wooden rackets. Do you know one of my interviews, one of my first interviews, we're going to re-release that one. I was Jimmy Connors. Jimmy Connors was my favorite tennis player growing up. I told you about that.

And I haven't heard. I haven't heard. He did have really good legs. Great legs. I have a photo of me at age 16 with, uh, with those little tiny tennis shorts. And I played doubles with Billy Jean King. And, uh, I can't remember who else was in the photo. It was like a charity thing.

But I was one of the local youth players. And from the waist up, I am a gangly 16 year. old freckled kid and from the waist down I have the legs the tanned legs of a 35 year old professional tennis player just bulky it looks photoshopped muscular it looks photoshopped i want to see this photo shopped maybe when we put this interview out you could post that yeah yeah i'll that be great i'll have my mom find it i want to see those legs yeah they were really nice they are now they're they're still the the things i have left from from my tennis crew do you have large balls i saw you look rob i was enjoying them he's got nice

Do you have large balls? What's that? Average. I'm asking that because as a tennis player, the shorts are so short that I feel like if you have big balls, you could have problems. Probably. Right? It'd be uncomfortable to have big balls. Probably.

You're not going to answer you. I told you. I don't know. I have average size testicles. Rob? He wants to see that. No, your balls. I bet Sully here's got bigger balls in you.

He's a taller man than me. It doesn't matter. Shack doesn't necessarily have to have giant balls. I don't come into it. No, it should because it'd be a shame. if you were six five and you had like a little blueberry ball i guess i guess if i was like a large egg not an extra large but like a large all right so you know what you were talking about go to the grocery store to get two large eggs that's that's eggs that's my guess i would say mine are

those are big eggs are big balls i don't mean i don't mean large like ostrich eggs yeah i mean like they're labeled like yeah like large free range sullivan brown ass yeah nothing yeah not like something like like a free range grass fed vital farms it's a little spits on the small do you have one that's bigger than the other uh

i think i think i'm pretty even i think one that's a little i think i had a hernia as a child that's never been fixed but like when i breathe i could sort of make my balls breathe well that's normal is it so when i go they kind of go up and down that's normal because i had a girlfriend she's like oh my god that's not normal your balls breathe no that's normal yeah thank god i've been four i'm 46 thank god i thought i was dying i mean they don't have nostrils that take air no but they breathe when i breathe they go up and down up and down

i think you're all right so you're you're you quit tennis you want to be an actor but where did the uh boo start hanging out with those theater folk i mean it just started in college just started in college and and yeah the theater world the theater world's pretty conducive to uh to a cocktail and eventually you know over over the years it it becomes more ingrained in your in your life and in your in your patterns and eventually I just realized it was not contributing to to the best version of myself what were the symptoms what were the the thoughts that hey I you know usually there's what they always say when something when you hit rock bottom like for instance I lost a girlfriend not to death but she we stopped dating because I broke up

with her this is years ago and then I made the wrong decision And I didn't get her back because she wouldn't take me back. And I felt like, you know what? I did that. I've got to change my ways because I caused it. Why did I break up with her? I'll never do that again. It was for the wrong reasons.

There was something that made me change my philosophy. Well, rock bottom is just where you decide to turn around and go back the other direction. So what was your rock bottom? I mean, two years ago, as we were moving into This Is Us, I had just realized that it had become a totally unconscious part of my life. and it was all it was it was happening a lot all the time and in unconscious part of your life yeah like oh this is this is just the norm oh and dinner and after shows and with people and the best time for me to make a change in my life is when especially when there's a physical change like a like a location change so moving to a new city is the perfect time to change it up change it up and and basically

it started as a little bit of a challenge and then I was like you know what I've never slept better I have never felt better I didn't realize how constantly kind of hung over I always was whether it was just the from inflammation in my body or a dull headache or or kind of groggy and and here we are feeling good lost 20 25 pounds so that's that's ultimately because usually somebody will say oh I got a DUI or oh I did this or oh I did something I really that's the interesting part about quote unquote Rock bottom is, is, is, is, it's just when you decide to, to turn around and go back the other direction. Did you not like yourself? Or it wasn't that? I, I think I probably didn't like myself. I think I probably still struggle with liking myself. I found myself making jokes that would get me in trouble.

You know, you get a little loose. You start making, making a joke, making somebody uncomfortable. I started having to apologize to people. I'm like, hey, sorry about that joke. I was trying to make funny. Yeah, and I always take it one step. Not always, but I used to take it, you know, one step too far. And I was kind of sick of just like not being present.

You know, I would be around all of these amazing people. And I take the alcohol out of my life and I realized that I ended up in a lot of places. I didn't really want to be. I was like, I was only there because the alcohol removed the inhibition and the anxiety. Now I'm like, let's just, let's stay home. Let's go to bed early. Let's see the sun. come up you know i've actually said man maybe i should start drinking i'm really boring you know uh it's

like hey i'm going to universal horror nights tonight why is that boring i don't know i it's not boring it's not boring why are you worried that you're boring you know when your friends call you grandpa or like oh it's 1030 you better get rosenbaum to bed it's just you know it doesn't it's not like it hurts it's just kind of like fuck man they're right but i can't do anything about it because i am they're not they're not they're not who says they're right why why why at why at At some point, something's got to give, right? At some point, we should be evolving. And if you're tired, you go to bed.

If you're, what I realize is I used to, I was tired all the time. And I would, I would bypass that feeling with whiskey or with, or with stay. If you, if you stay up long enough, you'll catch a second wind and, and you're ignoring your body's time clock. So what's the, what's the benefit of, of staying up late versus getting up early? Chris, I want to rewind here. Rewind to about three minutes and 33 seconds. I bet it's close to being on the dot. Rob?

You said, I don't know if I really like myself now or something along those times. And that struck me. When you say something, I can't just let that slide. No, no. Because I've suffered with that. I think Rob suffers with that. Jennifer Luff. Hugh was on the show.

She talks about that. I think everybody I talked to in some way, I mean, the goal is you want to like yourself. You want to love yourself. When people say, you can't love another until you love yourself, that scares me. Correct. So what is it about you? I see a guy who's happily married. I see a guy who has a huge career.

I see a guy who's handsome, who's a former great tennis player who has wonderful legs, plump size balls, egg-shaped. But like, what is it about you that you just go? Listen, basic core beliefs, right? These basic core beliefs that we all have, however they get in there, it could be the smallest thing it could be the largest thing we all have something we all have this inner critic that says you're not good enough that says you're you're not lovable you're incapable of loving others you're worth like even even if it's on us a very small level and i'm not saying i don't like

myself i do especially today i do a lot of work on myself tell me um but those feelings still come up my wife and I were reading this article um so the the it was about it was about the seven deadly sins and it was about how we name them all real quick uh sloth envy pride uh greed greed lust gluttony gluttony and wrath wrath wrath come wrath don't look in the box don't open the box come on do it become wrath do it become wrath do it What's in the box? Open the box. Don't open the box.

John Doe's got the upper hand. John Doe's got the other hand. Open the box. Become Wrath. Do it. Sorry. Wow. You switched through a bunch of those characters.

It was nice. And a little bit. You were doing the pit and I was doing the Freeman. Yeah. You got a little Freeman in there. Okay. Sorry. Originally there was an eighth one that got rolled up into, into sloth called

Acetia. Acedia is this feeling. that the desert monks who had come up with this idea originally believed was the worst of all of them. And it was the noonday demon. And it was this demon that gets inside you that says you're not good enough. That says the world is a terrible place. It's essentially this this kind of rust on the bottom of a car that if you don't take care of it, it slowly spreads and it takes 15, 20, 30 years for the bottom to fall out of this car. It is frequently, uh, uh, uh, mislabeled as depression but it's this feeling of of worthlessness and that the world is a

terrible place that eats away at me or at a lot at a lot of people but it's i believe that all of these years when i thought oh maybe i'm depressed maybe i need this maybe i need this is is this idea of it's it's just negative self-talk it's negative self-thinking it's low self-esteem it's um Um, it's a, it's a lot of things rolled up into one, but it seems to be like, it was too complicated an idea that it was like, ah, laziness. We'll just call it laziness. We'll call it sloth. Um, and that type of thinking is something that you have to actively fight against because

we all have it inside us that you look around at, and, at everything that's happening in the world. If, if you look around long enough and you're not depressed by what you see, I don't know anyone who, especially now, is able to kind of process everything that's happening in the world without ending up a little down. Acidia. Acedia. Tell me about how you deal with it, how every day.

It sounds to me like it's part of like cognitive behavioral theory, therapy. Yeah. You know, thinking positively changing the way you think, correct? Yeah. Therapy, it's living in conscious gratitude, writing it down, sharing it with others. Rob, where you write this down, seriously? So I'm not going to listen to this because I'm doing it right now. Well, write that down because I want to do that.

Writing down positive things like, I am grateful I have a new puppy blanche. You know what we could do every day and I do it with a couple of my friends. We have a couple of my wife and I have different text threads going. Today I am grateful for dot, dot, dot, three things. You and I could do that. And we could do it every day and it doesn't have to be a big conversation. It could be three things that we just send to each other. And when it's written down and when it's shared with someone else, it becomes this tangible thing in our lives that we can use throughout the day to remember to kind of get outside of ourselves.

Do you know why I think I have a CDO? Because I just got what you're telling us. I got a little emotional. I didn't, you know, but I felt something like this is a really nice thing to do. This is a good thing to do. This is a positive thing to do. I don't know what it was, but when you were saying that, just saying, you know, wake, you. up instead of going all right how do i tackle the world how do i do this how do i you know conquer

how do i make money how do i it's like waking up and just going hey god bless man hey chris i just want to say i think your legs are awesome um hey i would like that i really i really appreciated you coming over yesterday i just i'm grateful to have you in my home such a positive uh energy in my house that that'd be like a nice thing to say rob uh thanks for taking a shit in my house i'm glad you were relieved um even though i wasn't he doesn't want to carry that around with them right right right these are these are like i think this is a healthy thing so that's one of the things you do yeah prayer meditation uh connection with with a higher power connection with uh other people uh one of the other things my wife and i were talking about this this article kind of put it perfectly that we were

reading is that that happiness is not the goal usefulness is the goal useful useful usefulness If I misinterpret, if I didn't ask you, I go, God, youthfulness, I got to get some Botox. How am I going to get younger? I'm going to get younger. Usefulness is, how many people have we heard in interviews or when you talk to them? What do you want in life? Happening. I just want to be happy.

Happiness is not a goal. An emotion is not a goal. You cannot set an emotional state as a goal because emotional states are not constant. They are constantly coming and going. So you are smarter than me. You are. I don't know this stuff. You're smarter than me.

I don't know. I don't know this either. This is just what I believe to be true for myself. All right. This is not. Usefulness. So how do I achieve? If happiness is what I want, if happiness is something that I would like to feel more

of in my life, if something I would like to feel more of, how do I achieve that, which is the question nobody asks, okay, well, how do you do that? Being of service to the people that I love, being of service to the people around me, being useful, being kind, being generous, being empathetic, being. being compassionate, trying to do, you know, one good deed every day. Like, these are things that at the end of the day, I can look back and hope that I have left a wake of kindness in my life instead of destruction or pain or misery. Thanks for having me.

This has been great. I'm sorry for the monologue. Rob, how do you feel about this? I like it. Are you going to, do you think you do enough of what he's talking about? Or do you feel like, you know what? Wow, this is profound, man. I actually want to just be better at this.

I don't do enough of that, but I see where value would come from it. I bet you do. I bet it's not grand gestures. It's not running a charity. It's like. More being conscious about what you're grateful for. Yeah. Right.

You know what? Why don't we start? Why don't we start every morning? I'll just say, hey, I'm grateful for you, Rob. Well, or grateful for something. Yeah. You know, we'll get a group text going on. I think it's good.

I think even, you know, I'll maybe text you. I mean, look, I don't, I just think it's important. That's just one facet of it. But it's like, it's like being appreciative of what I'm gathering is having graded. But usefulness, like saying, hey, how am I, how can I help someone else today? How could I be in a usefulness to them? Right. How could I facilitate their happiness or their, you know, and that will make you.

What do you need? What are you in need that? But altruistic. altruistically. Sure. Right? It's sort of doing it not for your own personal game,

but doing it because it should make you feel good. Even if you are. Even if you are doing it because it makes you feel good. I think that's a good enough reason. But what if you're doing it because you're like, hey,

I'm going to do this nice thing for someone because then I'll feel like I did something nice for someone. That's not the attitude you should have. But it's still what happens. It sounds like artificial. Even Kristen talks about that with all like the charitable stuff that she does.

That's how she gets self-esteem. is through that and and everyone is winning it doesn't it doesn't now now if you're doing if you're doing good deeds expecting something back from that person then maybe then maybe it's it's a dangerous path yeah like I'm helping a homeless and I'm hoping that God will give me something nice for it right but that's not good right yeah and then getting mad when something doesn't come to you I fed the homeless today why why couldn't you give me this Prius I wanted really I feed the homeless and rob shits in my bathroom. Really?

This is what it's going to come to. Today I am grateful for these three. But yeah, it seems to be people have placed too much value on being happy or setting an emotion as a goal. It just doesn't make any sense. Yeah, because I don't know how many times on my stickies I would put, be happy. That's not the way to do. It's be useful. Yeah.

Be useful. Be useful. be appreciative be right be your service that's my new t-shirt want to buy one i'll take it i get a free one i can't get a free one yeah yeah i like that shirt i'll advertise it i'm a rob write that down you hear what i said no i wasn't listen be useful be grateful be yep that's really rolling off the towel it fuck rewind go back don't remember i can't remember hey so uh do you have like are you Hot yet? No.

Are you? Are you running hot? I feel great. I just wanted to make sure you're not. I like, I like my guests to be. You're out of coffee too. You're all right? Yeah, I got a water there though.

No, I'm great. You can't hint water, pineapple. It's good for your, for your what. How is it? I'm going to give you a case. Yeah. You just got a case of hint waters. And now he's going to smoke a big bomb.

Hey, you know, when you're on these shows, because you seem like, when you say these shows, you talking about podcasts. No, no, no, no. I'm talking about the camping with Jennifer Garner. Yeah. And I'm talking about This Is Us with Milo Ventimalea and, you know, Mandy Moore and Justin Hartley and all the day people. And you, you work Concent Cardinals of Galaxy 2. You've been on time. I mean, you've been on tons of stuff. Do you get nervous still before a scene? I don't get. Do you get worked up? Do you get? I don't get nervous. But I do get in my head. and I do believe that I am able to it's hard I have I have conflicting

Is it a day to day thing if you have a big scene You might get nervous it is a day to day thing I have been in a slump recently as far as my confidence in my work Wow and it's hard to talk about because it's it's self-reflective and it's navel gazing But I believe I've had a A an audience honest look at myself without being over the emotional or critical. I recently had an episode on This Is Us where I,

where I had a big emotional arc that. Toby. Yeah, that ended in, in a emotional breakdown. I felt like my work in that episode was completely unpresent and not real. I came home at the end of the day and I sat down with my wife and I was like, I didn't do it today I didn't do it didn't happen I did my best I worked hard but the thing that I thought would arrive did not arrive and she walked me through that that kind of analysis of

my work because I also don't believe that you can be a creator and a critic you can be one of the other you don't get to be both as as an artist or as a creative person your job is to create and whether or not it is any good is none of your business that is that is my opinion but at the end of the day i didn't feel good i know that did you is it one something that you could just tell by the director you could tell by other cast members that like they're looking at me like i'm not getting this i mean that or was it just innately i try not to to read too much into other people's because then i'll just go down a uh yeah we've all gone down there but i do i was just going off of my feeling that at the end of the day i was like yeah wasn't it that was not it now do i have enough

craft and ability to wing it to make it to even if it's not happening to make it look like it's happening i hope so i've been told that that it came off all right oh wait wait wait wait wait who came who called you and said hey chris hey it's uh ron first ad i just want you to know that no no your scene came off all right it wasn't as bad as you thought it was all right no And again, this is the largest group of people that I will be sharing, that I've shared with that I didn't think it went well. I only share that with my wife. It was important for me as that day was going. I didn't let anyone else know that I thought it was going that way.

I didn't pout. I didn't sulk. I didn't. Did you think about it? Throw a tantrum. Yeah, I got close. And I noticed I could feel myself prickling up at somebody doing something and me wanting to lash out. Like, it's your fault for making that noise.

And I would throw blame. and I would throw, in my head, I would throw blame and I would, I could feel the, you stopped yourself. I'm not doing that. No, this is you. And that's the difference between two or three years ago and today. And I was able to walk out, do the work, and go home to the appropriate person, my partner in this life and be like, oh, it just didn't happen. I didn't feel it. And you also said two and a half years ago, you were insinuating that maybe alcohol would have taken you down.

Not alcohol. Not alcohol. Unconsciousness. My inability. to be conscious of the things that I was feeling because it was my anxiety and it was my fear of you get anxiety sure what kind of what do you feel when you get anxiety I have a tightness in my chest my tingling arms yeah I've had recently I had I had a nice panic attack with a migraine variant did you know that migraines come in forms that aren't just headaches I've never had a migraine I have a horrible neck and back but no no migraines I mean there's something to be grateful for yeah yeah If you think about it. I mean, if the neck and back thing should give you the worst, like, crippling headaches. That's what my doctor's all said. And you don't have to do it.

What you just said is like, oh, you got stabbed in the back. Oh, well, at least they didn't stab you in the heart. Hey. But that's grateful. I could have died. And I had this migraine variant where I was in the car and all of a sudden my hand started, I was leaning on the center console and my hand started to go numb. And I was like, oh, I've put my hand to sleep.

And then I was like, I was shaking my hand out. And it wouldn't go away. And it started coming up my arm. He thought you're having an heart attack. And then what happened was it was the weirdest thing. It was psychedelic. My, the messages from my brain to my hand as to what to do were backed up like a traffic jam. And it was like my hand was three thoughts behind and I lost control of my hand.

And I tried to like pick up my phone to get my wife on the line. And I stumbled and like knocked it over. And then I felt it. my foot and it started coming up my leg and it was the entire right side of my body went like white noise like tingling for no reason really anxiety anxiety I mean yeah like came about like out of nowhere I was in traffic which doesn't really bother me that much I thought you were dying I thought I was having a heart attack and I pulled over and ended up in urgent care and and and the urgent care doctor was the best he at the weirdest bedside manner he was like I think you're

all right but do you think we should get you to the hospital his like voice went up and he's like do you think maybe we should should like he was leaving it up to me yeah i think you look great but we should do a brain scan do you think what was it jim gathigan yeah do you think that maybe what is you have to a thing and uh and and and so anxiety anxiety shows up in in many different ways but but frequently i know i'm feeling anxiety when i start feeling anger when i'm like when i'm frustrated when i'm short and it's not really tired or tired i'm not actually angry with anybody i'm feeling nervous i'm feeling fearful i'm feeling and and my way of of protecting myself from those feelings is is to to lash out or to blame so

what can you do what helps you to not have these moments i mean can you really can you control them because i look i i take something a little bit for anxiety yeah i go to bed at night something a really low dose but like uh you know it started because i was on a show show, the show in pastor, where I was in every scene and I was exhausted and running around and tired and not eating right, not sleeping enough. And one day, I barely got through this big scene outside. And I looked at my assistant Troy and I said, hey man, call Dr. Lim, have him come over to the trailer. I think something's wrong with me. And he did all these tests and he goes, uh, Michael, um, have you ever had anxiety? And it's almost like the worst thing

he could have said. Yeah. Because then from there on out for the last, thank God it was the end of the season. It was only two episodes left, but I had a couple of anxiety attacks on the set that no one knew about. Like you, with your other issues, I held it together. In the middle scene, we're about to go, and I'm having anxiety attack. It's so debilitating that I don't think I could perform the scene. Right. I literally am numb and trembling all over, and my body's like exhausted. Right. I'm feeling it now. And the anxiety attacks in my experience come about by trying to ignore or stifle the things that I'm feeling. So if I have these feelings that come up and I can feel them start to bubble,

if I try to ignore them, if I try to pretend, if I'm not conscious of them, and start like being overly funny, trying to, with the jokes, right, right? You lead with, you lead with comedy. Comedy is one of your armors, one of your, one of your shields that you can hold up. It helps me. To be, to be like, keep, keep situations or people at arm's length. Yep. I do the same thing. If I ignore that feeling long enough, like a traffic jam, eventually, that feeling is, is going to step to the front and be like, no, no, no, you're going to pay attention.

And here's how strong I have to be for you to realize that anxiety is what you're feeling. And that is an anxiety attack for me. Have you ever had, like, I'm not trying to be funny here. So I don't think because I'm going to bowel movements when I talk about them. But do you ever have it like where you're so, like all of a sudden you're, you have so much anxiety that it makes you like really fucking exhausted and you have to go to the bathroom a lot? That's not my experience of it. Rob, have you ever had anxiety attack like that? No.

That's number one. It makes it have to pee? No, no, poop. Oh. Sometimes I have to poop a couple times and I get really like, it doesn't happen a lot. Like I've been controlling it. Like every once in a while I got at a convention if I'm signing. Yeah.

I'm excited to be there. You get a nervous stomach. All of a sudden, I get anxiety. Like all these people, all these things are there going to be anybody there to see me? Am I going to, what's good? Well, it's your body's, it's your body's way of removing you from a situation. You have to go to the bathroom and sit down. Wow, I didn't think of that.

It's a survive. Get me out of here. Your body's like, we need to get out of here for a second. Take a deep breath. And I hear that the best thing you could do in general is don't run from the situation. Right. Stay where you are. Let it pass.

Fight it. Do not run because then your body's going to know if you run. Exactly. You're going to keep doing that. The adrenaline jacks up. But what I've realized, you know, now, if I am conscious of these feelings and I'm willing to talk about them, that it not only, it not only lessens the feeling, but it actually provides the intimacy and connection with the people I'm around that everyone appreciates. And it's actually leading to stronger relationships. Like if I can say to my wife, instead of complaining about going somewhere or getting mad about something stupid, if I could say, you know what, actually, I'm feeling, I'm feeling, I'm feeling. a lot of anxiety right now my chest is tight my stomach is hurting i'm i'm afraid that if we i'm feeling fear that if i go to this place to this party with you that i'm not going to know anyone everyone's going to be drunk except for me and i don't i don't enjoy that and and and having that conversation and and getting all of those things out by the time i'm done with the sentence the feeling is

lesson. Right. I can go to the event with my wife. She knows what I'm feeling so she can stay present with me, stay connected. Interesting. Not leave me alone. What about, yeah, what about you sort of just saying it? Like if you're on setting, I have anxiety. Hey, guys, I'm having a little anxiety attack right now. But I'm going to deal with it. Yeah. If I freak out a little bit, yeah. If I's happened, I get a little anxiety. Yeah, I'm having it. Hey, guys, I'm having an anxiety attack and, uh, and I, or just even just going to the second AD and just being like, and I, and I, and I, and I don't know what to do. But if I could have. 10 minutes in my trailer, uh, that'd be great.

And oftentimes when you hear about this, this actors and their terrible behavior, oh, they stay, they wouldn't come out of their trailer for two hours. I guarantee you, that person is not in their trailer going perfectly calm and conscious and saying, I'm going to make all these people wait because I'm important and they're not. Do you know, yeah? They're freaking out. You know what happened to me just now when you said that? Now I go to the fucking trailer and I'm,

thinking he's telling everybody and everybody's talking about me and I have anxiety and what the fuck's wrong with me and now they're all looking at me when I come in. I just better just tell everybody. That's why I think I tell everybody, hey, I got to go take a shit. They're like, all right, thanks for the information because I don't want you to think I'm taking a shit or that I shit when I get back. There's something crazy about that, but I fucking do it, Chris. You engage in therapy, correct? Well, I, yeah. You have a therapist. Yes. How much fecal talk is there in therapy Have we figured out what it's about? I've asked him

I say sometimes I feel like you know My uncle is I've listened to the podcast and we're friends Do I talk a lot of shit? Yeah I talk about shit a lot yeah I do You and Steve Aegee I don't really think I talk about shit a lot I'll ask the guys out there whoever's listening Do I talk about shit too much?

Hashtag too much shit talk How much too much shit? And farts count as shit talk Farts are an aftermath Or a four math That video you sent me was wonderful Oh, yeah, I sent you a video. Was that just for me?

That wasn't just for me. Oh, no, it's probably three other people. Yeah. Three other people. My friend Chris and Joyce enjoys Chris McDonald loves one. I send him fart videos in the elevator or at a hotel. We do, we don't do poop stuff, but we do like, you know, I'll show him my feet at a hotel like in Paris. Yeah.

It's just my feet so he knows I'm taking a crap. Yeah. So we do that. That'd be a grateful thing. Like, I'm grateful to, you know. So I wonder what that, what's behind all of the obsession with the shit. Well, I'll tell you. I think my uncle once told me he's a psychologist and he was, he had a patient.

who had the fear of shitting his pants in public. That shouldn't be a fear of mine because I have done it and I, you know, but I don't know. He just always feared like he wouldn't go out because he was gonna, I don't know what it is. I don't have a fear of that, but I have like,

I don't like shitting in public places. I don't like, I can't shit in a plane. If it's a 14 hour flight and I have to shit, I'm in trouble. I don't know what I'm gonna do. I just feel like that if there's one, if there's more than one stall, I'm okay, but if there's one stall

and there's, I feel there's people out there. I'm disappointing them. They're gonna knock on the door. They're gonna be. there i got a fuck i got a hurry they're waiting then they're gonna know i shit do you guys ever think of stuff like that no no see did anyone ever make you feel guilty about shitting when you were younger like your mom no my brother shit his pants once in a we were raising money for the hockey league yeah and i made fun of him shitting his pants and my dad threatened my life he said don't you ever

bring this up again it embarrassed your brother i'm like oh well that's interesting wiped it on the walls that's interesting so your relationship to it is actually due to The thing that you fear the most is what you did to your brother. Ooh, I didn't think about that. Yeah, and you are the one that makes announcements at parties. Yeah, like I just announced that you took a shit in the first thing I said. You did it to my wife. I called you out.

My wife, the first time I brought her over here at a party said, were you in there shitting in front of like 20 people? Was she upset? No, she wasn't upset. She said, I think her response was I would have shit in your bed if. Well, you know what? Maybe there's something there. this is why I have the I do this podcast so I learn something because the things that were the things that I find myself the most afraid of are the things that I am guilty of so if if I'm worried that's why that's why things like gossip and and things like shit talking and things like like that especially in like a work environment are again like rust on the bottom of a yeah I don't I really don't do that I try not to talk shit about people I really really try that if you and I have a conversation about

a third person and there's some part in the back of my mind that says wow if michael's willing to talk to me about a third person is he willing to talk to another person about me even if it's not conscious like on that level yeah we have now we have now eroded our relationship yeah um the trust there's a trust there's a trust you know i'll tell you something this is the i have a lot of flaws and i've talked about this every episode but the one flaw i don't have i if a stranger came up to me with a secret. I wouldn't tell anybody. I'm like that.

If somebody tells me something, I don't feel the urge to go tell everybody. I feel like if I tell Rob something, I hope he keeps it between us. If I told you something... You're also terrified. Every time you tell me the littlest thing, you say this is between us.

Well, because I'm very private. I don't want people knowing my business, and I, you know, I bet that, yeah, fuck. You really blew up, like, in the last couple years, right? I mean, your career... After, yeah, after the Nick. The Nick was the big show,

and that was Soderberg, right? Yeah, the Nick was the... thing that including this is us every job i've gotten since then is directly because of the nick that's it yeah but when you first got this is us you weren't signed on as a regular character were you no can you talk about that well i yeah i think i can't well you know when i contracts in this industry are complicated but when when this is when i got the pilot for this is us the nick was still i was still contracted to that show and that show hadn't been canceled but yet. So in order to get me into the pilot, they had to sign me up as a guest star or a recurring

character. The pilot was shot. I went from the pilot to shooting Guardians. And by the time Guardians was done, This Is Us got picked up. I guess before the pilot first episode of This Us Kid come out, they released a trailer on Facebook. They got 90 million views and NBC realized that they were going to have something at that point uh i was released from the nick there was not going to be any more of that and they came back and and asked if instead of my one year contract if i would sign for six i think there's a word called leverage yes so you had a little leverage a little bit a little bit right so i was still very young and in the still am very new how much fun is it and how inspiring is it to be on a on a show because i've only been on one really really

big show, successful show. I've been done a lot of shows that aren't successful or only lasted a year or two years. I know what the impact that it had on me and still does to this day. I mean, you were on two shows that had a big impact, but this is us had a global. Yeah. Global reaction, right? Yeah, this is us. The thing that I've realized about my experience in television is that it's completely unique to the television landscape. Doing the Nick with Soderberg, there's nothing that happens on that show that I can apply experience. wise to anything else I've ever done. It's completely unique.

Soderberg works in a way that is completely unique to him. The show, the format of the show, 10 episodes on Cinemax. It was a formative and educational experience. The things that I learned there, certain tools I gathered, but I couldn't expect any other show to operate like that. Coming onto This Is Us is the same thing. The level with which everyone on this show loves each other is. statistically

impossible. There's no one you go, ugh. No, there's not one person. And you know what? I believe you because I know a lot of these people, except for Mandy and but everyone I, they're all really good people. Yeah. And and everyone shows up and is supportive and prepared and compassionate and efficient and creative and it all comes from the top down. Dan Fogelman, your favorite musician. The leader of the band is tired. His eyes are growing old.

Is an amazing leader and a guy who keeps the kind of the ship pointed in the right direction. Where do you want this show to head? I mean, especially for your character, for Toby, like for the fans out there. Where would you like to see him go? Are there some things like you read a scripting to go, hey, this is cool, this is nice? And I'm sure there's some episodes you're like, oh, I don't do much here. Or, you know, is there something that you want to do that you're like, I don't want to go to the creators and talk to them? I hope that they could arc it out this way, you know?

They've opened that up to us, which is also rare for the writer's room to be open to the cast as much as ours is. I try to stay out of that. I feel like that is that muddies the waters a little bit for me. If I was one, two, three, four on the call sheet, maybe I would involve myself a little more. number seven on the call sheet doesn't need to be I want to be number seven on the call sheet number seven on the call sheet you are two days a week maybe yeah and then you just have a life

yep have a life and you're still on a hit show yeah what a treat get some really good scenes yeah chance to to show up and be part of an amazing awesome but you're still doing camping on the off season that's right and you do 10 episodes of that we did eight episodes half hour each and that was limited series so that's done and where is that

that's a limited series it's done on HBO I'm gonna watch that have you seen it yet yeah it's in the first oh yeah you told me me, you said he's really good on that. Yeah. And Janix's a bravo and bravo great on that. Yeah, check that on an HBO camping. This is us, obviously.

It's everywhere. I've never even auditioned for This Is Us. I can easily play your brother. Yeah, actually, Toby has a younger brother. We could play tennis. Do you think you could play 10 years younger than me? With makeup. Yeah.

I have hair. Yeah. You do have hair. Yeah. And I don't, so that helps. Yeah. Anyway, that's not important. Well, you know what?

This has been a real treat. I got to have you back because we didn't even scratch the surface. I want to talk about your music. Yeah. What's the band? The first album was under Sully and the Benevolent Folk. Right. The Benevolent Folk.

Right now I'm working on a second record with a gentleman named Taylor Goldsmith, who's the lead singer and songwriter for a band called Dawes. Ooh, I know Dawes. That's great. I met Taylor. He will be getting married very shortly to Mandy Moore. And he and I hit it off big time and started writing some songs. together and, yeah, I should have a second album in a couple of months here.

Dude, I don't want to get him on the show. Maybe you both can come on the show. Oh, yeah. He would be a great guest. Yeah, maybe you guys could play a song. We definitely could. Are you a singer? I am. What songs do you think of when you want to sing like from the 70s or 80s? Oh, from the 90s or 90s? How about, if I sang something, could you sing the second part of it? Sure. And even though we ain't got money, I'm so in love with you, honey, and everything. I'll bring a chain Love

In the morning when I rise Bring a tear Do you have the rights for this? It doesn't matter We're singing it Yeah, we do We do have the rights You know who sings that?

That is, give me a second. Loggins. Loggins, Kenny Loggins. Nice, you do have a beautiful voice. Loggins and Messina. I'd love to hear a little about working with Sutterberg you already said about work about Soderberg we don't have to do you you love them he's a

genius right he is he is he is he is the have a temper no he's the he's the calmest most collected organized creator I've ever worked with uh he is the best performance on the nick all right that's really complimentary like there's a lot of great acting going on in that show but the best performance in that show is Steven Soderberg with the camera that's the character he is he is the character of that show at haven huth can you ask chris how many times a day gets called taser face uh three what was it like at vivian bloom filming peter pan live christopher walkin's stories that's right he worked with him i did work he's great he's he doesn't talk much we'll see he doesn't he doesn't talk much but you know what i got that you didn't get is i got old walking when you

worked with him he got a younger walking so it's easier to impersonate him because he's clip along this the the the best story i have of of walking he told us this story about uh going to an italian restaurant but his pauses it took an hour it took an hour for him to tell this story he goes he says he said he said so the reason i perked up he goes my friend fabio told me about this restaurant and it was like Fabio the he's got a restaurant called father's ass and he goes Fabio says says this restaurant has Italian food just like my mama used to make you got to go to this restaurant you got to go to this restaurant and so I'm condensing this one minute and so walk and walk and eventually goes to the restaurant and says Fabio sent me here

says you make food just like his mama and the woman says all Fabio ever orders his salad that's the punchline to an hour long story from Christopher Walker is salad really she so this restaurant makes salad and you of course laugh but it is also a ridiculous story that fabio only orders salad and that's the food that reminds him of his mom do you think it's a real story I that's a good question I bet he makes a shit up now is Christopher Walken a walking performance art piece I think he's yeah

he's a parody I don't know something yeah I think listen man this is I'm gonna get you out of here I know you get an appointment you're gonna come back this has been you know I knew it was gonna be good but like most of our talk was about real shit and I like that that's what I like about you're open you're vulnerable you're real

I think you helped me I think you helped a lot of other people I think you helped Rob we're gonna get our gratitude text chain going i'd love that i genuinely uh i genuinely like you i think you're a great dude i want to work with you but more importantly i want to be friends with you i want to know you i feel the same you know you make me a better person for sure you're one of the few people that make me there's people along the way i'm not saying i think there's a lot of people that make me a better person like there's been people on the show that i'm like you know what zach makes me a better person i like

jennifer love you it makes me a better person you make me a better person dachs makes me a good person. Kristen Bell, uh, Rob here. Not, not as much. He makes you a other person, but he brings out the worst in you. Yeah, maybe, maybe, maybe so. Well, Chris Sullivan, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you, what's your handle at, uh, Sullivan, at Sullivan Grams, at Sullivan Tweets. Sullivan, Sullivan, Tweets. Check him out, man, this is us. He's brilliant, camping on HBO, taser face, Guardians of the Galaxy 2. I mean, you're, you're always working. He's going to work with this, the lead singer to Dawes. I love it. Thank you so much for being here. My pleasure. is awesome.

Hi, I'm Joe Saul-Chi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account? The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends.

And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's, follow and listen on your favorite platform.