Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - DAVID WAIN: Making ‘Wet Hot’, Nude Auditions, Paul Rudd Brilliance, Need For Structure & Niche Comedy

Episode Date: March 28, 2023

David Wain (Wet Hot American Summer, Role Models) joins us this week to share how he’s paved his unique path in comedy for decades without sacrificing his style for commercial recognition. David takes us back to his early days at NYU bumping shoulders with guys like Ken Marino and Joe Lo Truglio, going on to form a group full of comedic household names in The State. We also talk about finding the brilliance in Paul Rudd’s performance, issues shooting Wet Hot, and staying creative while preferring structure. Thank you to our sponsors: 🧼 Dove Men Plus Care __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Ryan Taz, your hair looks nice today. Thank you. Yeah. That's nice. Do you put product in your hair? I don't. I do.

You do? Well, your hair looks up. It looks all right. Yeah. Thanks. It's sticking up. I know sometimes. Once you put the headphones on, it's all.

Yeah. Somehow your hair is perfect with headphones. Thanks. That's what I'm going for. Yeah. Well, you... Headphones by L'Oreal. Huh?

headphones by lorio that's right headphones by lorio um great uh episode today if you haven't seen wet hot american summer if you haven't seen role models and a slew of so many projects super talented guy like fleetwood mac he goes his own way um he's just david way he's a great guy i've jammed with him at his house he's he's a kid like me in a lot of ways he just uh you know He's obviously responsible, has kids, does this thing, but there's just a youthful feel to him. And I like that. He was easy to talk to. And we've known each other since 1998, but we were never really close or anything.

But we were always like, oh, I like him. I hope he likes me. And it was really great to have him. Just before we get started, if you guys will, if you're new, if you're David Wayne fans, listen to the podcast just for him. Hopefully you'll listen to more episodes if you like this. And I hope you do. our handles are Ryan

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to our new album. Never is what it is anywhere. you stream. So I hope you'll give it a chance. Listen to what are we here for. It's the theme song to Talkville that will give you an idea of what we're going for and trying to build an audience for that. So if you want to do that, that's great. I'm asking a lot of you. We're going to a lot. We're going to Chicago this weekend. Tom Wellie and I, we're going to be doing pictures and autographs and hugs and a lot of energy. Grab a Red Bull. You'll need. And what else can I say what else can you say i think that's really it did i miss anything no i don't think so i hope

you're having a great week um you know uh i have a you know i had an incredible weekend last weekend um can't really talk about it but good stuff and a lot of stuff in the works so i'm hoping you know i'm being more more creative trying to get projects going along and uh you know keeping the uh keeping the podcast alive and uh again talkville is our new podcast on the side we watch every episode of smallville ryan for the first time ever me mostly for the first time and we review it and uh that's talkville podcast even ones that you are in the entirety of that are based around you that's got to be fun sometimes it's fun sometimes i'm annoyed with myself i'm like ah you did that because you're hamming it up whatever uh

I hope you enjoy the podcast. Let's just do it. Let's just dive in. Let's get inside of David Wayne. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio. And what station is this on?

WKDQ, 99.5 FM. W-A-I-N, W-A-I-N, David, Wayne, all day long. Boy, is it a treat to have you here? Listen, I'm excited about this. Are those real, those Muppets up there? Well, they don't, they're not alive. But are they, I mean, you know, there's obviously a big difference between a toy and an actual.

You mean the original? Or one that might have been used. No. No. I had those made. There's this woman in Australia that I'm, met at a convention and she had these puppets and I was like, wow, can you make me a Princess Leia? Could you make me a...

Hello, Barry the lead. This guy's been to Australia. Hello. All right. Why didn't we start with that? I've really done it. I've made a name for myself. My God. First of all, explain when you got out of your car, I noticed there was in a Rubik's Cube. Yeah. What's that about? Well, a lot of things I do are like I'm 11 years old because there's a part of me that just is. And so in my mid-40s, I'm now in my mid-50s. Oh, my God. Are you really? Well, I'm 53.

Wow, that's not quite mid. Don't go there yet. Okay, I'm not going to go there. I'm on the right side of 55. Yeah. Let's say that. I like that. Sometimes in my mid-40s, I picked up that Rubikus Kim, and I'm like, fuck it.

I got to learn this for the first time. And I stopped my life and got really good at it for a second. How long did it take you to actually do it the first time you did it? Well, I followed. Anyone can solve a Rubik's cube in 10 minutes if you follow the instructions. It's not that complicated to do. The challenge is how fast you can do it. And my son, for example, can do it in under 20 seconds.

What? I can do it in about 50 seconds. That seems astonishing to me. It is astonishing. It's a great, it's learning the Rubik's cube for me was a wonderful expression of how you can learn something. that seems impossible and day by day time by time you get a tiny bit better at it and that thing that seemed like a magic tricker impossible at first is like oh now i can do it i've never done it i always i have one i just think it's impossible i you know what i think it's weird because as we've got

into this before i gotten into this about like i never thought it was very smart i never thought it and i just i never did either but yeah that's still how i feel that little boy in me stuff goes oh you can't do no ruby's you're not smart enough so don't even go there right that's for smart people ruby's but you're saying I could do it probably you really could it's just like anything it's you learn it and it's like it's a way you can learn it and it's it's kind of fun I have to say it's a fun adult activity to learn how to actually properly solve a ruby's cube did you hear that guys you could actually do an arubis cube I think we should try that I think we should yeah you just have to decide to take a little time and not just try to jump to the end

like how much time are we talking I don't know I mean taking an hour or two here and there for a few weeks you probably get at those cracker barrel games too what I would do though is I would get obsessed then I would like sit and do it for hours because I just was like I got to get this I got to I got to nail this and of course anything in the world that you really want to learn there's there's YouTube it's true tutorials you also brought cards with you well the magic tricks thing has been always my whole life since I'm born you do magic tricks yeah well could you do one today I mean we'll see well see you brought them just in case but i just have them always that's just you know that's just who

you are it's just part of me um first of all i uh i text your good friends joe latruglio and ken marino my name's david way yeah just to start there david way we do that in the beginning okay before you even come i do an intro all right so they're going to know all about this stuff great here i am and we're going to get into it did you you know i've done that before where i'm on a podcast and they never talk about who i am or what i've done or anything i'm like no one's going to know who the fun yeah unless they happen to know your by voice and by fandom which is true for many some some some people yeah you have a lot of fans i do have some i would say i i'm one of those people that has a very very small but devoted uh club fans yeah which is great joe both of these are sort

of non sequiturs to me i don't i don't know what these mean joe the trooper we said ask about leonard gains he was a new york university professor who taught an african-american music class you talk. Yes, he was great. This guy, Joe and I took an African-American music class in NYU, and this guy just had a very funny way of being one of the things that we always remember is he, somebody asked him, you know, he was a former trumpet player. And they said, well, do you ever play now? The normal question, you know, say, the professor, do you ever play trumpet yourself now? And he's like, no, I just don't do it anymore. If I did it, I would still be doing it,

but I just don't do it anymore. He's just going to angrily. Yeah, I'm like, okay. And the other thing I always remember was he would say, you know, there was the country blues, and there was the city blues, and then there was Blind Lemon Jefferson. And the thing about Blind Lemon Jefferson

is no one can out Blind Lemon Jefferson, Blind Lemon Jefferson. And no one can out Fletcher-Hen, Fletcher Henderson. And you just had a very funny time. A teacher you'll never forget. There are very few teachers like that. Wouldn't you say that sort of stick in your memory? Oh my God. Very, very few. I had one that was a, it was a sound class, sound design college. And I just remember goes, the first thing he said, that's all I remember is, what is sound? Sound is vibrating air. Sound is the thing I like to hear coming up. out of my mouth.

As I remember, Dr. Walsowski, Wadalowski, or something like that. And okay, Ken Marino, another member of the state, as Joe Latruglia was, you guys went to NYU together. We did. Joe, Ken says, uh, something about Kodja taking fits. If you had any Kajah taken fits lately. Kajah taken fits. What are Kajah taking fits lately?

So both of those are just references to like things that I don't show up a bit, uh, when I So dumb. When I was like eight in elementary school, some weird old man came and told us funny stories. Like some guy came in, I don't know. And he was like, have you ever heard about cod you're taking fits? You know, it's like my, my uncle would take the cod and he's like, how much cod you're taken? And he had cod you're taking fits. I don't even know what it was.

But then I would just do my own telephone game of telling that same story. I propoved nothing in the middle of like a writer's session sometimes and people be like, what the fuck are you talking about? And so it was just sort of a very weird random words that would come out of my mouth and that Ken Marino remembered. That's sort of, I feel like that you guys have a lot of those inside things. Those weird little things that you do. The bizarre thing is, you know, we're all in our early 50s and I still work together very often

with different members of the state who are these guys we met when we're 18 years old. And so there's many decades of weird random shorthand or inside little references. And so we might be in a meeting about something with me and Ken Marino and X and Y and Z. And I'll make a little weird. I'll be like in the middle of a sentence, I'll be like, God, you're taking it. And it's just to make Ken laugh. And everyone else is like, what are you talking about? So you just do it to make that person.

I think I do that with my friends too. It's subconscious. We all do that. Yeah. I think everybody does it. But that's nice. Look, dude, you've done so many things. And you have a very, you have a brand.

David Wayne has a brand. You're a brand, dude. That's original. That's unique. That no one, very few people have a brand. A lot of people can make movies and TV and it's sort of linear. Although these days it's all about the brand, isn't it? Everybody talks about the brand.

You got to have your niche on your TikTok channel. But you have that. I don't know what it was. I know it started with the state, but Wet Hot American Summer, Roll Models, Wonderless. They came together. Wet Hot American Summer. I mean, all these things, the sort of your sense of humor, the, what you find funny, it's just a quirky, different take on comedy.

It's like your own, like you said, niche kind of thing, your brand. Yeah. And that started, you'd say that it started a young age where you always sort of just going for a laugh, trying to make, what was it like growing up as a Wayne? I definitely was the class clown of my family. I would entertain my family. I was the youngest by far of three much older sisters and my parents and I would just do schick during dinner and, you know, but I think that my slightly off-kilter kind of jokes I would make

were encouraged by people around me and I got, you know, confidence in that somehow and I really loved Steve Martin and I loved Woody Allen and sort of their weirder absurdist. Makes sense. Minotians. And then I just had this incredibly lucky happenstance of meeting a bunch of like-minded people right when I got to NYU and finding that my sense of humor is not identical to theirs, but it was complimentary enough that we really all encouraged each other and learned from each other instead of from some higher mentor or teacher or a book or something we really we really

mostly taught each other everything and so i guess i emerged and also just had the lucky chance to have it have the opportunity to make things like wet hot american summer where and the state and all those early things where we were allowed to do this these projects the way we wanted to and follow these weird humorous tangents that maybe in a more normal business situation, they'd be like, you can't do that, cut that out, you know, or the way I used to talk about it was like the thing you joke about at the dinner table, but then you're like, well, we're not really going to do that in the thing, you know, and be like, no, let's do that in the thing. And so that kind of is, but it was, none of this was ever really like that conscious.

We're just like we're doing what's funny. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money, period. It's Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. This is just a wonderful app. There's a lot of apps out there that really, you know, you have to do this and pay for and that.

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Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staple. from Quince go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's Q you I N C E dot com slash inside of you free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash inside of you I always think about when we were doing our show Stella on Comedy Central I saw Stella live sure yeah so Stella's live and I just I remember it was so funny if you guys get a chance and you sell the DVDs that's the only way you could find them yeah and they well they sold out they sold out of the stella shorts yeah but the original stella shorts you can still see them online though you can but uh that we had we found a bunch of old

DVDs of it and sold them and they sold out two seconds i still quote it i still quote this one thing where i went to this show and look it's it's a little toilet humor but it's so funny there's this one sketch where uh the family is having dinner and the mom's you know mom just is freaking out and she, she farts on stage. I don't know if you remember this. You probably don't. And somebody goes, and she storms out of the room. Then she starts puking. And then somebody says, everything's fine, guys. The family, we're doing fine. And somebody goes, fine. Mom just barfed and fareded. Oh, right. Right. Right. How are we fine? That was the state. Was that the state? Yeah, that was really funny. And he was like, and she berfed and she ferreted.

It was like, just weird pronunciations. Yeah, that was, I remember that. That was, I think, a show alter piece. Yeah. But that's sort of all your sense of humor. Yeah. To do ridiculous things like that. Totally.

In the state. Now, but I remember, I was going to just say, we were doing that show Stella on Comedy Central. And in retrospect, I can acknowledge that was a very weird show. But at the time, we were like, we're just doing a funny show. Like, it's just funny, like a sitcom, like, funny like friends. You know, it didn't occur to us that it was that. that off to the left as and then when it went on the air the response was either like this is terrible they hated or this is the most bizarre you know why would anyone it's no surprise that

it wouldn't get picked up for another season but um we're just doing what we do and so I don't but is it is it hard when you're doing something that you find funny that you know is different that you don't get picked up for another season or whatever like the state right you did it like 25 episodes. We ended up doing, yeah, it was sort of four seasons worth over, but they were very tiny seasons. Yeah. Right. But did you, did you ever feel at something? And I want to get back to your childhood and that stuff, but like, did you ever feel at some point in your left? You're like, well, maybe I should go more mainstream comedy because maybe that's what they want. And try almost fighting yourself and your instincts. All the time. Of course. And you still do that? Well, I'd say I do it

even more now because now I have bills to pay and I have kids and you know and the the whims of the marketplace for me go up and down all the time of course it's never been a consistent ride ever you know it's always been like slow periods and then things go better and but uh for the most part mostly throughout my career whenever I've talked to any of the powers that be whether it's reps or producers studios they're always like oh we're a big fan of what you do but we can't do that here. You know, like, and so it's always been that pushbowl of like, do we do something more mainstream or more down the middle, you know? Do you like any down the middle? Is there something? I love down the middle. I mean, I mean, depending on how you define it, but the most mainstream thing I

ever did was with this role models movie. Yeah. And I loved it. I loved every second of it. And that was us sort of layering in our point of view in a much very straightforward vessel. and I thought that was a wonderful experience and I've wanted to do that type of thing again and also I love like one of my favorite movies of all time is like miscongeniality like I now joke like amazing

I love love love straightforward stuff too and I mostly consume as a as a TV watcher or movie watcher non-cometic stuff in the first place you know I think of it left like being at work

and so on my free time i watched breaking bat you know right did you ever feel like sort of compelled like in your later years after you kind of created wet hot american summer and all these different things in the state and did you ever feel like compelled to be weird or quirky or off just so you almost like you couldn't really truly be you were trying to be someone else as growing up does that make sense so yes makes total sense a great question and the answer is not really it's usually the opposite it's usually I'm trying to do or I'm in a place where I'm assigned to do something and I'm naturally looking to push it weirder and I have to stop that because it's not what's we're doing

whether I'm directing a regular TV show or something, you know, and we're struggling with a script moment. I'm like, well, you know, if we were doing this like in a vacuum, I would say let's have him, you know, turn around and jump in a pool of water here or something weird. But I'm like, I know we can't do that. So let's, you know, that always comes to you. Let's do the harder way. Right. But no, luckily, I don't think the demand for my brand is so actually existent that people are like, you've got to be weird.

And I feel pressure to be, you know, in any way more off than I am. And I'm not that off. I'm just like a dude. Yeah, you are a dude. But do you ever think, like some people might think, I guess studios would think, oh it's a risk because it's that certain brand and we don't know if that's going to either hit or not it's too much of a risk you want something more mainstream well i i feel like i've consistently my whole career not gotten work because people are like oh he can only do that like he's his stuff is

funny but it's too weird for us you know and and you're like no i can do the other side i did role models i do i do exactly and also i can i've i've done the range of things over time and uh you know i can handle, you know, as a director, it's sometimes been frustrated because I've done such a wide variety of styles and levels and media. And as you said, the brand can have a double edge to it. And people like, oh, he's the guy who just does like really goofy, dumb things. And so we have this thing that we have a real feeling about and it matters to us. So there's no way that he can handle that. Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Did you just feel like you have to fight more these days for something you're passionate about or do you and you still obviously write your own stuff yes i do

i i've always generated my own stuff um but i also do feel like yeah i i think just the natural progression and getting older and i'm not in the i'm not in that i'm not young anymore and i'm a middle-aged white guy in hollywood and i i definitely have to i feel like i have to work harder to get heard and that's fine but you know another cool things you think you think looking at your resume and looking at the people who follow you looking at the people who want to be in your movies who are consistently cast in your movies like the paul ruds and all these other names that you see these big names they obviously love you and love your mind and want to work with you yeah so that should excite studios yeah it should

right sometimes does yeah it also is like you know as you know as we all know right writing something, coming up with something is starting from scratch every time and you're reinventing the wheel every time. So, you know, it's just a question of like, a lot of times if I have a thing, which I've got all these things going right now, for example, that I'm developing and hopefully going to start shooting. And but you have to start from scratch every time. So you're like, okay, what's another idea that feels real to me, that feels true, that is funny and that could sell. And then you're just starting from a blank page every time. So it's, it's never easy how many how many projects do you have just in what you're working on right now i kind

of at the moment it it's in different phases i have i guess like maybe three features and maybe like five tv things but that's i think that's a lot of things but it's too it's a it's a it's a it's a it's a combination for me honestly of both too much and not enough like because that i don't like to be spread thin i'm not happy when i'm working on even more than one project i'm most happy when I'm fully invested in prep or shooting or post where I'm like really, really deeply and I can't even think about anything else. That's when I'm happiest in my work. But in a phase where you're developing, pitching, writing, you know, and you sort of have to

juggle things because you just don't know what's going to take flight, that's less fun for me, but necessary. But I think, and you always hear this, they always say, like, you could be, like, I love this. I've done this before where I wrote something and I'm like, this has to sell. This is it. This is genius. And that's all I'm focused on. But if that doesn't sell, which most of the time it doesn't, what else do I have going on? So that's why you have to have a lot of things like you have going so that when the one hits, hopefully boom, I'm going to that right now. Yeah. It's that balance has been a constant question or challenge for me because there's also

that fantasy I have of, I think of an idea, I spend every ounce of me to get that. thing done get it done put it out there take a break and then do that again like that would be my fantasy life if I could pull that off but I've never been realistically as you said you have to have a million irons in the fire because you know they're all going to yeah everything half the 90% of the things aren't not not going to come to fruition so it's it's an interesting challenge it is do you know a lot of times in this podcast we talk to a lot of professionals a lot of actors and you know celebrities, whatever, about, you know, how they deal with things, how they deal with work, with life, the balance. Some people get anxiety. Some people get depression. I get both.

Yeah. You know, uh, has there been a lot. I mean, look, you're comedian. You're, you're, you're someone who puts it all out there. There's got to be, A, do you always have to be doing something? And if you're not, are you depressed? Do you get depressed? Do you get anxiety? How does that? I would say, uh, I, I, I don't know that I get into what you could call clinical depression or anxiety too much, but I definitely feel like I need to stay busy. That's certain something that gets me, you know, I, when I wake up and I'm like not exactly sure what I'm supposed to do that day, that's a bad thing. Like, I really try to have projects in front of me. And I've, managing my time and attention has been a number one focus and area

of anxiety for me for my entire career, you know, and trying to understand that. the best way to spend my time. And, you know, we all just realize the things. Like, if I have to edit something, for whatever reason, that's easy and fun for me. And I can sit there for 12 hours without even going to the bathroom. If I have to write something, it's the opposite. You know, I'll go for one minute and then I get distracted and, like, let me go, you know, play a game or whatever. And if it's a music thing, which is only a hobby for me, but that's something that's easy for me to focus on.

It just depends on where, what I'm, I'm doing. But yes, I do, we all, I go through all those things. We, we all do. What about being on set? Are you sort of an anxious, perfectionist? I don't want to run out of time. I've got to do this. At the end of the day, you're just exhausted mentally and physically. I'm in a pretty good place on set. I think I learned early on that to be a good director, you just sort of, you just arrive into a zone and then you have a plan and you have your brain firing all day. And I really love that and I don't I don't get stressed out on set I really love I feel in the zone when I'm directing but do you ever feel like a problem occurs and you don't know how to solve it and you're

the cast is looking at you and you just I'm a little shit I'm out of my and does it ever get like I have I have found over time that I get if I'm if a problem appears you know like the the wind blows over the set and now what are we going to do I know that those things are going to happen and I just get very zen about it. I'm like, all right, let's figure out how we're going to solve that. And because I think I went through such a trial by fire on my very first thing, Wet Hot American Summer, where it poured rain every single day. Almost every day when you're filming that, right?

Daylight exterior, short, low-budget shoot. It's supposed to be a nice day. It all takes place in one sunny day and pouring, pouring rain all day. And so it was the ultimate daily, like, what the fuck are we going to do situation? And I learned then it's like to, let go of what's out of your control, focus on what solutions might be in front of you, and just do it. And somehow on set with that structure, I thrive, you know, where you don't have to think about what am I going to do today. You know what you've got to get up and do it.

And so I don't think I would do well to be like someone who's always in production. So if I was working on a camera crew or something where every day of my life that I work that I have to do that, I think I would burn out. But I really love, the thing I love the most about my life and my work is that it changes all the time. Sometimes you're really mellow and you're working with one person in a room by yourself. Or sometimes you're with a small crew doing something or you're on set being the general of an army of 100. Have you ever had a difficult time with an actor where you're just like, I do not get along with this guy is giving me a hard time. This is difficult. Of course. And what do you do? Well, I think, you know,

First of all, you look around, you're like, it's not me, right? I'm not the asshole here. And then you just try to, it's just same, it's actually the same thing as what we're saying. You're just like, okay, so here's the problem. What are the solutions? What are the, what are the tactics we can use? And you'd be like, okay, in this case, you know, do we, do we have to fire the person? Do we, or do we just have to have to fire anyone before?

Oh, yeah, sure. You have. Yeah. If you're talking about like an actor during a shoot. Yeah. There was one situation I was. involved in more indirectly where an actor was being inappropriate. No, a couple times, a couple, where somebody was being inappropriate. We're just like, that has to be the line,

sorry. And you have to, and we had to fire them mid-shoot. There's someone you knew, someone you liked at first, or someone you, or just surprised. No, not really. Someone I didn't know well, but somebody, like the one that I'm thinking of right now, we were doing a TV show and an actor came to do a relatively small part and, but was like being super inappropriate with women on set and and we all talked and very quickly were like we just got to cut bait right here you know right and uh but you know normally if an actor's difficult you're not going to fire them but you're going to try to just you know talk to them and say hey you know what you're doing is affecting everyone else and can you not do that you know or don't just hang out in your trailer why would

I do that David why would I do that right well I mean I know you're that guy you're the why what I do never never um I always do what they say but it's so I don't think film making is different than any other workplace challenge. You know, somebody's doing something difficult. You've got to deal with them and figure it out and try to be understanding, but also eyes on the prize of what we're all trying to get done. Inside you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this.

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Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off,

we're here to explore the Wicked and reveal the Grim. are wicked and grim follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform what did you go to NYU for I was into NYU film school for film school and I concentrated I I guess I used to say I had a concentration in children's TV but I really took a couple classes in children's TV but basically I went to film school and and and so I mean you've told the story but in a nutshell who did you bump into first was it show Walter or Marino met me And we and Todd Hollabeck and Ken Marino were in a class ahead. So we were there as freshmen.

And Ken Marino, I met the first day of school because I was assigned to be roommates with somebody he grew up with in Long Island. And so myself and Craig Wedrian were living with this guy. And Ken Marino knocked on our door. And he was like this Italian guy from Long Island. And we were like, oh, I love Ken. No, but we loved him from the moment one. So we all were hanging out.

And Todd Holla Beck, basically Mo Willems, who is now the biggest children's book author on Earth, had started, he was one ahead of us and had started an improv group and a sketch group at NYU. And I joined that. And then there was a new group that Todd Hollabeck, Todd Hollabek was in our group, and he decided, we decided that we didn't want to let new freshmen into our group. So Todd decided instead to start like a B team, a JV squad. And he left to start a new group. And that was like an open meeting. Anyone who wants to be part of this new sketch comedy group, that was like an offshoot of our main group,

the Sterlingak, could do it. And then that became the state. That was the group that, you know, and the main people from the state, Michael Showalter and Carrie Kenny and Tom Lennon, they all just showed up there. And that became the, that was like the freshman B team group. And then when it became clear,

to me and pretty much everyone that that group was what was really special um our main senior group sort of dissolved and i begged to be part of this the new really yeah well there are a lot of people that got were there at first but they kind of were weeded out because they just weren't funny there were some yeah but it was shocking how much of the main core group was still the same you know the state never officially disbanded we're still a group it's 11 of us and this is now third plus years later, and it's the same core. Do you think you'll ever get together again to do something? Yeah.

We talk about it actually quite regularly. And we've done, we have done, we have reunited with, and written new material for certain live shows we've done over the years. And, you know, we're all still friends and we all still recognize how special it was. And we are always talking about brewing something. I see how supportive of you. I was at Joe La Truglio's screening for his film, his horror movie. Great movie. Great. And you were there supporting and Michael Jan was there. Ken Marino was there. And it was nice to see after all these years, you guys still support each other. I mean, not just that. We went over to his house when he was editing and we like help give notes. And we always, it's really great to have, you know, a core of people that you have each other's backs, even though we've all obviously gone in various different directions and pursued different avenues and worked with different people. But you have sort of like a family that you came from. And it's really nice. Do you try to cast those guys?

or your close friends, it seems like you do, obviously, and just about everything you do if you can, if it's right. Yeah. I mean, I have over the years done that. Did they ever get mad when you're like, what happened to my audition?

What about me? Yeah, totally. Did they ever say anything to you? Sure. I mean, you know, it's a double-edged sword. Like we, on our movie, The 10, we tried to cast every single person in the state. And you and Ken wrote that.

Yeah, me and Ken. Yeah. And we did give everybody a part. But, you know, it's like sometimes, you know, when you try to make it a thing, and then it's like it's you know how casting is you never know it's it's hard when you have to have a mandate about casting yeah um no matter what and but uh it has definitely been a thing where we try to bring in or or we end up bringing it like a lot of times for example in our movie wanderlust we had this part um of this guy who's a naked guy running around the this commune and we auditioned

all sorts of different actors who were great and like different types and really funny. Did you audition them naked? Some of them did what, unasked, came in and auditioned naked, fully naked, saw their clothes off. Saw their penis. It was crazy. Did you love it? I mean, love it as in like, like that they took the risk, not that you love their dongs

slapping around. I love the memory that that happened, but no, I was not loving that. I would rather than not do that. I'm like, if we get to there, we'll look at your penis. Yeah, we don't have to do that right now. Any big ones, by the way? Yeah. There were some big doms?

There were some big ones. I bet they stretched it and put warm water on it. I mean, it's hard for me to have any, because I have like the biggest penis. I'm like one of the, one of the, I mean, it's just sort of famous thing. But anyway, the point about that was that we, at the end of the day, as we were trying to figure out how to, who's going to really nail this, we were just like, oh, let's just get Joe. And then, like, Joe Chillo came in and was like the greatest thing. You know, like sometimes for me, the luckiest thing about me is for my taste, these are some of the funniest people I've ever met and ever will meet.

And like, you know, it just happens that we all knew each other in college. So great, why not? When you were doing the state in your mind, do you recall saying, this guy is going to be a star? Were there anybody in the state or where did you think everybody here is going to be? But who was the guy or the girl that you were like, they are going to make it in Hollywood? Well, as I mentioned, I wasn't in the group. originally. So I got to see their first show, which was like literally freshman in NYU in a little black box theater doing some skits that they wrote. But I was like, holy fuck. And when I think

I, I think Michael Black stood out to me first. It was like, this guy is so funny. Oh my God. So funny. But then very quickly, I clocked them all. Michael Showalter and Carrie Kenny. I was just like, Jesus, these guys are really funny. You know, going back to like putting your friends and things i got to give it to you i mean there's a lot of people out here when they make it they don't bring people along with them they don't i made a little movie for 800 000 shot in indiana god bless you didn't get a uh tax break nothing and i tried to put my friends in the movie as many as i could yeah because it was like i i just feel better i have more fun when my friends are around and they're certainly capable

So when I see you and I see your movies and you're putting all your friends in, my friend Matt Ballard, you always throw Matt a bone. Greatest guy in the world. I've known Matt since college. We did theater together. Yeah. We lived together in New York. And I love that about you.

I always say David Wayne is one of those guys who does the right thing. Well, but who doesn't want to be among friends when you're working? What a great thing, you know. Yeah. And I just think it's, it makes it fun and exciting. And, you know, it's everything has its pros and cons. but it's just, yeah, it's always nice to, to, if you're in a position, no matter what you do for living, if you're in a position to help people you care about, why wouldn't you try, you know?

That's certainly how I feel. That's crazy. Now, listen, when I coughed before, just a little tip from someone who's been around the block. Just the tip. When you're going through later and you're playing down the tape, you just take a little razor to that one part and you cut, I learned this in college at NYU. 1990, and then you razor out the other side, and then you just tape it together very carefully with a piece of white tape, and then the cough is gone. Is that what you have to do now?

All that work just for that? I mean, now maybe it's digital. Who knows? Yeah. These days, I mean, a friend of mine wants to set me up on a home computer. What the hell am I going to do with a home computer? But I guess, I don't know. A home computer.

Is that what they call them? Yeah. Apparently, he doesn't have to any more write down his recipes. You can just keep them all in the computer. So, okay, I guess. Keep going. Just keep going. Hold on, taking a picture.

Everyone has it. Everyone wants to have a website now, like, apparently. You know, it's like, everyone's get your own website. Even Microsoft has their own website now, apparently. What year are we in? What year is this? Can you call Paul Rudd right now if you wanted need answer? It's possible.

He's that good of friend. Would you say he's the top 10 friends in your life? Um, yeah, maybe in, in terms of, uh, the whole of my life. He's up there. Talk about a guy. Talk about, um, uh, loyalty. First of all, did you just meet him, but you met him before White Hot American or did he audition? We, I knew, I sort of knew him through Zach Orth because Zach Orest, the best. Oh, God, the best. Zach Orth had been in the boss Lerman Romeo and Juliet with Paul in the late 90s.

And basically, Zach invited him to see this weird little play that me and Michael Schaltorlter and Joe Chulio wrote called Sex, AKA Wieners and Boobes in 1999. And he came and was just like, oh, my God, whatever you guys, your schtick is right out my alley. And so we basically, at the time, were trying to figure out how to get Wet Hot American Summer put together

and we said, would you, you know, attach your... And he wasn't a name then? Not, no, not really. Not really. He had been in 200 cigarettes and he had been in... He was in Clueless. Yes.

And he also had played the romantic lead in object of my affection with Jennifer Aniston. So he was not in big name at all, but he was enough of a name for us to say like there would be value added to our project if you would be part of it. So you just offered him apart.

So we offered him apart. and I didn't really know him or his work that well, quite honestly. But I knew I liked what I had seen and I was like, that's great. It would be awesome if you were part of it. And so, yeah, and then I didn't really, really get to know him until he came too set to do Wet Hot American Summer. Were you blown away by how good he was, how funny he was? I have to admit.

I was less, I was like, he's okay. I really didn't get it until I was in editing. Really? And it was only then that, I was like, oh, this guy's otherworldly, you know. And then since then, and I was lucky enough to, I think, make five movies in a row with Paul. And every fucking take, every time, like, you're just like, this guy is magic. Like, he's really quite something. You know, it's amazing is what you just said. As a director, you're watching him on set. And you're going, yeah, whatever.

And then you're editing and you're finding out the genius. reminds me of that show the offer did you see the offer no it's the making of um the godfather and the studio robert evans was like looking at the dale he didn't want pachino he says no this guy's no good bob was a good friend was he to too many people i'm sure to many people i'm sure but he watched the dailies and he's like this is crap this is what is he doing and it wasn't until later when they put it together they put the genius together yeah so but how do you how do you how do you how do you know that you don't know well i mean everything yeah so many things just come with experience and there's just no substitute for understanding that but yeah with paul i don't know i mean i mean i think

i was making my first movie and i was thinking about a thousand things and you know i just didn't really clock how great he was and uh but in post like i said we were just like looking at them like oh my god this guy's like working on a different level and then over the years working very closely with him and you know starring in movies that we you know we're working together writing together. I just see how his, you know, and it seems so he's not the kind of guy that talks about his process that much or like is very highfalutin about it at all. And I mean, I have memories of working on things where he's playing, you know, scrabble on his phone. And until like after we've said action, I'm like, put your phone away. It's time to start. He's like, oh, right, right, okay.

And then just boom. And he's in the, like, so in it and so real and so funny. And also he'll give you in four takes he'll give you four completely different but all great and usable options for this amazing you know it's it's a and it really makes you appreciate you know as me as someone who's done a fair amount of acting but never really been great at it and like understand like just the appreciation for that art form is just you know when you see someone who just has that thing you know what are you going to do decaprio has that he was doing what's eating gilbert grape yeah and they say that he would just be in like uh mama you know he'd be like but first he'd be like joking farting and laughing and doing all these

things ostagically and actually he's like I don't know if you and he would get into this character like that yeah and that is it's amazing and I think that a lot of people have to do that I can't sit there and stew in the part and just constantly thinking of the part I'm best when I'm just talking to people, joking around, and action, and then I could jump into it. If I'm thinking about things too much, it's not going to be as good. Yeah, when everyone is a different way to get there, and they're all legitimate.

I've learned that, too. Every actor has a different process, and that's great, you know. And I've done some of my favorite acting of myself when I'm directing at the same time, because I'm not, it prevents me from overthinking it. Right. And so if I'm thinking about everything else and then it's just action, then I'm just like doing it, yeah.

You're like the Hitchcock. I'm like the Hitchcock of filmmaking. That's what I've been called. You're the Hitchcock of filmmaking. Yeah. The white male Hitchcock. Wait a minute. Wasn't Hitchcock?

In many ways. Yes. Have you ever worked with actors who have an intense method or way of working? Oh, yeah. Where you just don't go to them. Don't talk. Who's one that's just an intense person, but amazing and you love working with? Oh my God.

How do you think? I mean like Maloney. Chris Maloney has a. An intense presence on sense, you know, and he'll be very thoughtful and he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he'll, he does that thing where you're talking to him about, like, you're trying to answer a question he has and he won't respond back even with a look and you're just like, then just keep nattering off at the mouth. And, and, and, but you can tell he's just thinking and, and like, processing. And, you know, everybody's got, you know, and he's just really thinking it through. And it's like the dumbest scene about whatever. And he's like, mm-hmm, okay. Yeah. No, I could see. And then he puts it together and you're like, wow. Yeah. Oh, I've, blow you my mind. It's amazing.

But I will say I've worked with, I can't, I honestly can't remember names, but I've worked with some actors maybe in smaller ways where they really get enamored with like the method type work and it. And it's just bullshit, you know, and you're just like, just come and do it. Just shut up, you know. Or like, and it's that famous, to me, it's that thing of sometimes the reason why this character would do it is because it's written down. and sat on the sides and you were paid to be here to do it. So that's why. That's the reason.

Yes. Have you ever dealt with insecure actors who are you just like, how do you deal with an insecure actor? Someone who can't get it who's really in their head. You could tell they're nervous. That happens all the time. And sometimes you just have to be like, okay, let's, you know, give me a second and go off the side and be like, hey, you got this or whatever. You know, just it's playing a coach. You know how to make them comfortable. Yeah. Or I've tried. I mean, the being a director, which one's so fun is like sometimes you just have to be like a cheerleader or a coach or a therapist or a parent or you know or and then sometimes you have to just learn to let someone do their thing and leave them completely alone and try trying to say as little as possible it just

depends and it's fun i always remember we're doing a scene in um wet hot american summer where jeanine garrophilo who really thrives on just showing up and just spouting off and improvising and doing whatever and not thinking about it as much And Marguerite Moreau was one of her first things. And she really wanted to rehearse and really get it right and really like get the beats all down. And we had two very separate ways of processing. And it was fun to try to figure out, you know, how to make that work. And I would, I ran the scene a lot with Marguerite and like made sure she felt comfortable and like there was, everything was covered.

But then left space for Janine to do her thing. But some people just don't like to rehearse too much. They don't want to, they'll go through the blocking, but they don't want to. No, they want to feel it for the first time, really, when they're rolling. And that's got to be difficult when another actor is like, no, I want to rehearse. It can be. Or sometimes an actor wants to do 20 takes. You know, they want to, like, warm up in the actual shooting.

They're like, I don't really get going until the take 10. You don't like that, do you? Well, I personally would, I can't, that I can't do. I don't have the patience or the attention span or usually ever the budget to do that. You're like, we got to move. Yeah, or I just, I also just feel like, it's really diminishing returns at a certain point. You're like, you know, you, hopefully you've worked on the script and you've worked on

the rehearsing if there's rehearsing, but, and then when the camera's rolling and there's 100 people there, you got to just sort of, you got it? Great. Let's keep going. I don't see you losing your shit. Have you ever lost your shit on set where you're like, God damn it. I mean, in 30 years, it's happened, but it's been very rare. And it's not terrible.

But I've, I've had moments where I've like raised my voice and been like, you know, but I would say competitive. Compared to most, probably pretty minor. It's pretty amazing, like Wet Hot American Summer, the legs that it has. I mean, you're shooting this movie in rain, no sunlight, it's your first movie, first feature, this is it, no budget. Yeah. A lot of great actors in this, character actors.

Yeah. How many days did you shoot them? It was 29 total, including one day every shoot. I remember, but it was shooting on film with one camera. So one camera you shot that with? Yeah, well, you know, most things were shot with one camera at the time. This is in the year 2000. And so just to keep that in mind when people are like, oh, I shot a movie in nine days, it's like, yeah, but it's one camera and you're rolling 35 millimeter.

So you're to reload. And we also had limited stock. That was the other thing. You couldn't just shoot as much as you want. That was not at all an option, you know. And when we would have a day where we'd shoot a lot of film stock, the producer would be like, dude, can't use so much film. It was like, there's a lot of challenges. Yeah, when you went home at night after day one or day five or day eight,

when you're lying in bed and you close your eyes. Lying in the camp bunk. That's where you guys slept. Yeah. With other people around you. Yeah. Well, I had my own room. Thank God.

But not everybody did. Did you masturbate? I'm sure I did. Okay. When I directed, I was too exhausted to masturbate. It's the last thing I could. I always make time. You made time.

Good for you. But when you're lying. there how many times out of this 22 day whatever shoot would you close your eyes and go i'm a failure this is never going to work this is this probably isn't going to work i'm doomed my dreams are falling apart so the best i can remember from 20 plus years ago i really felt like during that shoot it was just i was enjoying it and having fun and i was like it was exciting and i was working on the daily challenges and I wasn't and I and I was recognizing at the time how lucky we were to be able to shoot this thing

and I wasn't thinking so much about whether there was no expectation that it would even come out like I I was like if we finish this movie and it gets a review in the New York Times that's the that's the goal that's all I wanted and it never occurred to me that it would be in the consciousness 20 years later that was just not even

even on the radar you know i think you know when i when i directed movie i always you know you want it to be successful you want it to be whatever but i really at the end of the day wanted my brother to laugh yeah and i wanted the cast to really enjoy it yeah and they did and i could tell it the premiere the real laughs and that's that meant everything to me totally this is what i wanted to do this is what i could do and i'm proud that i did that but you knew you had something good on your hands. Well, I think that we had the lucky situation where Michael, Showalter, and I took three years to get them financing to make this movie. And we kept rewriting it. And we kept, we had this producer who was Howard Bernstein was helping us out. And like, we would just like keep diving back

in. And even though it was, you know, on the surface, a dumb script, we just really kept honing it. And we're like, well, let's make this better. Let's make this better. So by the time we got to set we really did have a very solid script i think and that was everything that's everything will there be any more wet hot american summers i doubt it i feel like we sort of did the a very sort of final ending to it at the end of the wet hot 10 years later on netflix 10 years later and first day of camp yeah do you uh ever go back to ohio do you ever go back for a reunion have you gone to a reunion in ohio where i grew up yeah uh yeah i go well i go to home my family's still there right And so I go there, you know, once one to three times a year.

Are they very proud of you? Yeah. Yeah. Did they get your humor? Did they watch these things and go, that's really funny. Yeah, it's funny. I think a lot of times, some people in my family will enjoy it, but on a different level. They're like, oh, that's so sweet or that's so cute.

And my parents were very, my parents both are passed away, but they both were, their reactions to things were so funny sometimes. And just like, well, that I just really did. and get, you know, and this one I hate. And in fact, I, we had my, say hate. Oh, yeah, they're like this part. In fact, we, I had my parents do with me and Ken, the commentary on our movie, The 10, because I just wanted to hear their like blow by blow, you know, commentary on the whole

thing. Because they, there were, that movie really pushes the envelope in terms of tasteless things. And there were things in there that they really genuinely hated. And I wanted to get that on the record. And what they say. they're like this one no i we i don't know why you had to do this one david you know just like did you love it oh i loved it oh man this is great um let me ask you this what's the hardest moment you've had to deal one of the hardest things you've had to deal with in your life so far

career wise or personal what when you think of the first thing that comes to you that this is the hardest thing i've had to go through um i would say that the truth is no work that thing has ever been as hard as just certain family relationship things. You know, I've been through marriage and divorce and, you know, different choices around where to proceed there and moving to L.A. at a certain point. And, you know, those sort of real life stuff has been, usually, you know, I've had, I've certainly had work stresses and big problems or choices and or, and many, many, many defeats, like many failures, things that have fallen apart at the last minute or jobs that didn't come through in the last minute or projects that I've worked really hard on that

failed, you know, many, most. But I'm sort of used to that. And the fact, I look at it like, I still don't have to get a job working behind the counter somewhere. And so that's the win. And everything else is a bonus. And I try to look at it like that. Do you think you're more fearless now after dealing with rejection, after dealing with the ups and downs? Do you feel like you were more fearless when you were just starting this business?

Or do you think over the years, things have happened, which made you a little bit more insecure? it's it's a very it sounds like i'm evading the answer but it's both i think that you know you're just life changes you in different ways and sometimes i feel like i'm more in the zone and more like sort of don't have to even try and things happen and sometimes i think it's things are more effortful and i and i'm you know and obviously when if you have four things in a row that fall apart you feel less secure about what you're doing right if you have four things in a row that take off then you feel more like you're invincible that's just natural do you always feel like uh

or do you feel i always think when i'm deciding on a job or i get something you know that i could potentially do i feel like i don't want to let this person down i don't want to let my agent down i don't want to and i don't even think about me most of the time right what do you fucking want yeah that you should you should do that you should think about you shouldn't think it certainly don't worry about your agents and stuff well you know you want to make them money they say this a great deal you keep saying they'll be okay they'll be okay they'll be fine yeah they have other clients and also it's just that's not your job their job is to help you thank you i think you're right who's the who's the one person that you think of when you're really at a low that you want to call

and just hear their voice and they'll make you feel better well i mean my mom and i can't do that uh yeah was that that was the hardest thing for you wasn't it that was pretty tough how old was she 74 was it unexpected no she was sick for a few years but she yeah it was it was it was we had the blessing of being knowing she was going and being able to be with her literally at that time and but it was you know there's i don't think there's any scenario or time or way to lose a parent that's okay you know it's there's it's never like oh that was the she lived a long life and she died peacefully so everything so i'm happy about it you know yeah doesn't matter i envy you because i have a feeling by talking about her how much you loved i could

tell by your emotion but like she knew how much you loved her and you knew how much she loved you is that right yeah i think that that means a lot that's very important to walk away with knowing like there's no there's no way she didn't know how much i freaking love that one you know yeah um you know yeah life and death it's all fucked up i you know it's funny because my uncle said something to me well i was visiting my grandma he's 94 blanche also have a dog blanche um it's weird it's weird and he said you know we're talking about death and i'm not very close. I love my mother. I love my father. Ryan knows the story. I love them. And he said something. He's like, yeah, we're talking about death. I'm like, you know, I'm going to

be responsible for taking care of the funeral and taking care of this. And, you know, it's like, all this. And he's like, I think you should definitely see a therapist and talk to her or him about losing your mother because I think that's going to be really hard for you. And I go, what we're not really close i don't talk to her that much because that's why and he's a psychologist he's like i'm not trying to be mr doctor here but i think that it's going to hit you probably harder than you thought and that scares me it scares me that i'm not as close where i could just i love you mom i love you so much i i you know i don't you know and her but i know it's just it's just a different relationship i do love her but every yeah it's there's no there's no

I really do feel like there's no, every situation is wildly different in every way. And so there's no template for any of this. And I have a very good friend who just lost her mother and they were not close at all. And they had a lot of tension over all the years. And, you know, it's hard for her in a very different way, you know. But it's, I don't know that I would have recommended that she went and made amends with her and tried to be close with her again because that wasn't in the cards for that relationship. You know, so it just depends.

Gotcha. All right. This is called shit talking with David Wayne. Okay. These are my top tier patrons. They get to ask questions. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you. These are top tier patrons.

Support the podcast. Top tier patrons. Patreon patrons. They are. Okay. And they're going to ask questions. This is rapid fire. Or if you feel like answering them long ways, you can.

Okay. Gianna H. Hi, Gianna. Hi, Gianna. Do you have any standout memories from the 10, one of my all. time faves. Thank you for mentioning the 10 Gianna. This was a movie from 2007, and it was 10 different stories, each one inspired by one of the Ten Commandments that it did with Ken Marino and Paul Rudd. Yeah, oh, it's many great memories getting to work with Winona Ryder, who was one of the

weirder and greatest actors I ever knew. Like, she was so awesome and very strong. change in all the best ways. We got to shoot four days of it in Mexico in San Miguel de Allende, and it was like a very surreal experience and working with this low-budget Mexican crew who just didn't do anything that we asked, but then did all these other things that we didn't ask for, and it was just like a weird, you know, we would say, oh, it's too bad. There's all those antennas on the roofs of those buildings, and they're like, okay, and they just like cut them all off.

oh my god or we had to do a scene where somebody's justin throes walking on water and they like built this whole scaffolding under the water without any safety like there was no concern for any rules or anything but then i would be like hey let's bring these decorations on this day and they're like oh no no we said it was going to and he's like no it's not going to happen and i was like oh but we all said we were going to start shooting at 10 they're like well you know 10 11 12 whatever you know it's It's like, anyway, it's very funny. But, um, yeah, it was, the, the 10 was a real blast. What's the weirdest thing Winona Ryder did?

Well, she sometimes would just, we would be literally about to roll. Like, okay, you know, lights, camera action, I'm about to start. And then she'd be like, wait a second. And then take me off to the side and talk about, I'm not sure what. Just like. random and I'm like oh okay should we go back to the but she was awesome we really is I mean she's she another one who's just like that camera rolls and you're like oh my god she's so good and and was just lovely I really ever get starstruck was she was somebody initially were a little

star struck by big time I don't get star struck too often never did too much but you know there's those certain people that you have a real relationship with from your own fandom in the past that You know, you meet them and, um, but, you know, in fact, it was interesting. I just recently worked with Steve Buscemi, who I've actually, I've actually met him a few times over the years. And I've, uh, you know, and, and so, but for whatever reason, I was just like so struck by him. He was so cool and I was just like excited to be in his midst the whole time. Oh, do I got to be Mr. Pink for? Yeah, that's it. What a great, great actor. you're a great you're a great mimic thanks i didn't want to say the next line i can't say it all right

you know the next line of that i don't remember what i got to be missed the pink for joe because you're uh oh yeah yeah leanne what challenge in your life have you overcome that you're extremely proud of well as i said i learned the rubus cube finally there you go that's it that's great yeah rapid fire rosh tell me about an audition you felt went well did but didn't work out how did you work through that feeling of rejection well as uh I'm not primarily an actor. Right. But I have done quite a number of auditions, actually.

And there's been a lot of times, 90% of the time, if I do an audition, I feel like that was pointless. I'd suck. But sometimes I'm like, oh, my God, I am literally that guy. There's no, it'd be crazy for them not to cast me. And then they just don't. But I know from having been on the other side of it so many times that the reasons could be anything.

You know, it could be that there's no. rhyme or reason to why ultimately why one person gets a job and someone else doesn't and so you can never take it personally have you ever seen a big actor audition for you and bomb just bomb yeah and they're a great actor i mean we had um when we did the the movie wanderlust jud appetatow was the producer and there was just a decision made that like everyone had to audition even if they were big names um and so we had a lot of big names come and sit and read our dumb script and it was really sort of embarrassing in a way to be like, thank you, sir, for coming in here. Like, I don't know why you even have to do this.

But, you know, some people are just not that good auditioning has nothing to do with their acting ability. Yeah, auditioning is not easy. Yeah, it's a whole different skill. And so, yeah, I've seen big people bomb. But, you know, I think auditioning is a very, sometimes necessary, but very imperfect way to choose actors for something.

Would you rather just sit in a room with somebody and talk to them, knowing that you've seen some of their work and you know they're good and just have a conversation. Will this person be good on set? Will he be fun? Can you do it? I think, yes, that has some value to it. But I also think that's also imperfect.

I think better, the best thing, I feel like seeing people's work on screen is number one. Like there should be much more emphasis, I think, on reels. And just like, and if they haven't done anything, you can make a reel or make a self-tape, I guess. But I just feel like, especially, anyone who's been around the block at all. I just have a lot of friends who are actors who continually audition after audition after audition. I'm like, don't they, you've been on 40

things. Like, I could do this in my sleep. Like, why do you have, why do you ever have to audition again? Like, and it breaks my heart that they've worked so hard. Because auditioning is hard. You've got to do it, you know, you don't want to put out a bad one. So, yeah. Last question, little Lisa, what is something you have always wanted to do but have not tried yet? Something purely dramatic. non-communic. Directorially? Writing, directing, whatever. You want to do something really dark?

Something dark or just something that's not comedy first. I just, I feel like, you know, not that it's a crutch, but I just, I love dramatic things. And I, and I, I just haven't had the chance to do something that is not relying on the comedy as the main engine of it. Where could people follow you, what your, what your handle? David Wayne, W-A-I. and it's the same handle on Twitter, Instagram, TikTok. I hope you invite me sometime to play music in your garage.

You're so invited. I'm dying for you to come. It looks like so much fun. You have these videos that are, go to his site, go to his handle, his Instagram, whatever. Davidwain.com also. Davidwain.com. I mean, just hilarious. And you've got these great musicians and these actors and seeing songs that we know and love.

Yeah. It's basically me and my middle-aged dad friends and you, for example, and we just get together in the garage and just play rock songs just for fun. And then it's, I put a few little clips of it online. But it's truly, it's one of those things that's just fun thing for friends to do and there's no goal around it and there's no agenda. Agenda. There's no reason. But we're working hard just because it's fun to put effort into it and make it sound as good as we can. But there's just, it's leading. to nothing and that's part of the joy of it do you have a big say in the music that's in your movies yeah well i'm i've always been a musician as a hobbyist or you know just interested in music and so and i've worked very closely with craig wedron who's been the composer on just about everything i've done um and yes i'm very very hands-on about all the aspects of the movie and and the music is no exception did you pick jane for the wet hot american series and not only did i think jane It was one of the very first choices.

It was from the movie originally. And I remember hearing that I was driving with my mom in her car sometime in the late 90s when I was thinking about what had American summer and what it would be. And when that song came on, I was just like, that has to be the opening credits no matter what. And we were a low-budget movie and, you know, I think we ended up putting enormous amount of our budget and just our resources in finding a way to get that song. and it was uh i love it so much is it would you say wet hot american is is the one that you treasure dear to your heart is it the what's what's your favorite project that you've done i know they're all close to you they're all but the one that you're like i had the most fun this is the most rewarding this it's a really honestly hard question that's a hard question because they've like

yeah what hot was the first movie that i did with a real crew and it was like so and obviously it has a very special place in my heart and it was an incredible experience in many ways and i i often associate the project with the experience of doing it less the final thing so you know like the role model like every they all have different wonderful memories and different stresses that come to mind and they were different phases in my life you know in one i had little tiny kids and in one i was going through this in my relationship or in this other one i was sad because of this or happy because of that so those are the associations in a way with the projects but and then there are other ones like You know, we did the show Medical Police on Netflix,

which really just came and went with a thud. Like, nobody watched it or cared about it. And that was really sad for me, because I thought it was awesome and as good as anything else. But, and then there was things like Children's Hospital, which was like a seven-year-long, beautiful job that got to do every year and wonderful family of people. And, you know, so I have been teased by my friends

for being a big fan of all my own work, but I am. Good. Last question, this is it. What would you say to young directors trying to make it, trying to make a name for themselves, what would you, somebody who really created their own work? I mean, you created your own success. Yeah. What would you say to them?

Well, it's so interesting because when I was younger, trying to figure it all out, the world couldn't have been more different in every possible way. YouTube didn't even exist. You know, there was no email when I first started off. And so today and also the tools of production are available to anyone. So you can make, you can actually make an excellent looking feature film yourself for $500. Like, and that's just insane from what, from where I came from. You know, and so as far as advice, I think that there's no substitute for just doing the work of understanding how to, the, the, the,

art of storytelling and learning English and history and philosophy and, you know, things that I still feel like I didn't do enough and reading. And there's no substitute for actually reading real books. And all of that, if you do those things, you're going to be ahead of 90% of people who are doing this stuff. And then, yeah, grab the camera and do your own thing and put it up online. And, you know, there's no specific one path that I can say is the way to get into it. but I would say just make sure if something you care about, do something to move you towards that goal every day. This has been awesome.

Doesn't this been awesome? Really? I really just, I thought I was going to be talking about your childhood and talking about all. And it was just so easy to just talk to you about just shit. You're a great interviewer. Thank you. And this is, I know, I hope this sounds like I'm saying this is bullshit,

but I think this is literally the best podcast in the world. What? And that sounds like I'm being exaggerating. I haven't listened to it yet, but I'm going to. Oh, I really appreciate that. I'm going to listen to it. Thank you. We could edit that part out.

I'm going to catch up. We could just take that little. David, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you today. I always wish you the best. I hope to work with you someday. Great to see you, my friend. We met. Do you remember where we met?

Specifically, no, but I remember many nice experiences of hanging out with you over the years. The movie was called 1999. It was 1998, I believe, when we made it, or 97. Right, right, right. And you were always on the set. I think you were friends with the director, Nick Davis. That's right. And it was Jennifer Garner's.

Can we talk about this for a second? Sure, keep going? Because the story of that is you were in that movie. I remember this now. And the, I was hoping to make Wet Hot American Summer, but I had never been on a feature film set in my life. And I was like, how am I going to do this? And so my friend Nick was making a movie and I said, I forget how I even knew him, but I said, oh no, he wasn't my friend.

Somehow I just, I went to film threat the magazine and said, can I do a story about the behind the scenes of making this movie for film threat? But it was really just an excuse for me to hang out on a film set. And I think that's how I met Nick Davis. don't even know what my connect you know it's funny i remember seeing you going you look sort of like you know you're just pensive and yeah and i go yes he's the producer or something no i was i was technically there as a reporter and and i remember you know it was uh fetter federman dan fudderman and and amanda pete and jennifer garner and what's his name joe eagan and jerry rafferty were a duo known as stealer's wheel when they came up with this

Oh, yeah, Stephen Wright. Stephen Wright and Buck Henry. Buck Henry. Like, what an incredible cast. Graduate. Meanwhile. And Timothy Oliphon. Right.

He's my buddy in that movie, yeah. What an amazing group. It was a group. So then another. Wasn't the best movie. I guess not. Can I not say that? The problem was the cinematography.

Just look terrible. Yeah. Well, it was very low budget. Very low budget. But I also, the people who made it were very nice. and I stayed in touch with them a bit over the years. And then another actor who was in that movie was Zandi Hardig, who I didn't really meet on the set when I,

but I saw her there and remember her from that. But I then met her like five years later and married her. But you met her on the set of 1999? Yeah, but I didn't remember that as well. But I remember her from the movie and I remember seeing her there, but I didn't actually meet her until like late. 2004. And then I married her and had two kids with her. And you remember seeing me? I do. You do? I do. I have this long hair and this leather jacket. Just so happy and excited about

being on a sit. It was my first feature. So exciting. I was like, oh my gosh, this is great. Yeah. The time just flies. Since the 1990s, it was before the 21st century. It's almost 25 years ago. All right. Fuck that. All right. See you, man. Love it. Bye. Great guy. A lot of fun and very knowledgeable. And we got deep. We got deep. And it's always nice when people open up, as I always say. And if you enjoyed it, again, write a review. Tell me what you think. Follow the podcast. Follow our handles at Inside of You podcast on the Facebook and Instagram at Inside You pod on the Twitter. We've got the inside of you online store with tons of Smallville merch and Inside of You merch. And again, we'll be in Chicago this weekend. So hopefully you'll be. be there hanging out with us and um i'm going to give the shoutouts uh top tiers of patron patron patreon dot com slash talk phil we need you support the podcast if you will i'll try to write you a message but uh anything is great patreon dot com slash talkville and here we go all right nancy d lea s sarah v little lisa yukiko i just sent these people uh things i had 20% off on inside of you and tons of

people uh said yes now i'm going to buy stuff 20% off that's good So maybe I'll do some more of those things Jill E, Brian H, Nico P, Robert B, Jason W, Sophie M, we'll get you that Tuesday cup, that glass, I promise, I just got to remember. Raj, all good, Rashi, thanks for the movie reviews. Joshua D, Jennifer, and Stacey L, Jamal F, Janelle B,

Mike E, L Don Supremo, 99 more, Santiago, M, Chad W, Leanne P, Janine R, Maya P, Maddie S, Belinda, and Dave. uh n h correct correct you got it shila g brad d ray h tabb of the t tom and lillian a we got talya that's a tough one m betsy d chad l b or w dan anne angel m ryan and angel m ryan and c cori k dev mickson correct michel a jeremy c brandy uh carlyle d that's right darlyle can he'll ask joey m eugene and Leah, my sweet Eugene and Leah. We also have an eye edge right now.

So Paul's in for a station identification. Corey, Heather L. Jake B. Megan T. Angel F. Mel S. Orlando C. Caroline R. Christine S. Eric H. Shane R. M.R. Andrew M. Zadouichi 77. Andreas N. Oracle. Karina N. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E.

Stephanie K. Jorel. Jamm and J. Leanne J. Luna R. Cindy E. Mike F. Stone Age Miss S Brian I Kady B Aaron R Kendall L Kendall

Hi Kendall House J what's up Meredith I What is going on Prof Dr. Scoots Professor Dr. Scoots I'm assuming

Charlene C Caracy Mary R Kyle F Marisol P I you know I think No yeah I think that's it I think that's it

Is that all you have? I don't have a sheet. How dare you? Oh, it's right here. I'm doing these names from memory. From memory. From memory. Thanks so much for listening to the podcast today.

I hope you enjoyed it. We got so many great guests coming on. And I think what's nice is that the stuff, I told you, Ryan, that the podcast is getting more established. It's easier to get guests. And it's word of mouth. Like Jonathan Franks goes, I love doing it. And I go, could you get me Brent Spiner, Gates McFadden from Star Trek?

He's like, yeah. And they're going to do the podcast. And, you know, the guy Ryan Kelly, who is Ryan in Smallville and the show Ryan, his name's actually Ryan Kelly, and he was on Teen Wolf, I believe. He's going to come on. He's got a big following, and he says he's going to do it. So a lot of great guests coming up. I hope you'll stick with the podcast, join Patreon.

And Ryan's still going to therapy? Still going to therapy. Good. Yeah. We all need it. Yeah, that's good. I definitely need it. Oh, yeah.

I was confused for a second because Ryan Kelly is also the guy who taught me trumpet. I thought you were going to have my trumpet teacher on, but I guess you're not. Really? Yeah. You play trumpet? Could you pick it up right now? I could. The muscle memory would come back.

Is it a trumpet more like, but yeah. You have to buzz your lips. That sounded like my butt. That's how you have to play trumpet. Thanks for listening. I'm Michael Rosenbaum from the Hollywood Hills in California. I'm right. That's correct.

A little wave of the camera. We love you guys. Couldn't do the show without you. I say it all the time, but I mean it. And you know I mean it. So thanks for the support. Thanks for the love. And most importantly, Ryan, always hold on to small. No. That's not it. What's the other one? Be good to yourself. That's the most important thing. Just be good to yourself. Today you're like not happy with yourself. Give yourself a break. Tomorrow's a new day. Let's do it. I'm not preaching. I'm just saying the facts. Got to love yourself. I'm trying. I'm really trying. All right. We'll see you next week. Hi, I'm Joe Sallsee. I host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing. and everybody we're out of here stacking benjamins follow and listen on your favorite platform