Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Ep 1: Tom Welling

Episode Date: May 18, 2018

At last, Clark Kent and Lex Luthor are reunited - this week my old cohort, Tom Welling, joins me on the podcast. Tom and I spent ten years working together on Smallville - he’s like family. We reminisce about old days on the set together...how the cast all came together to get him a driver so he didn’t kill himself driving to set at 4:30am for an 18-hour day, the time I yelled at him when I was directing an episode, and how much we both enjoyed making out with Kristin Kreuk. We also talk about his high school years, working construction, getting into modeling, and his career before Smallville, plus what it was like to marry and divorce at such a young age. Get ready for the episode everyone has been asking me for...getting inside of Tom felt so natural, just like old times. So come listen, just keep quiet so you don’t ruin the mood. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call Connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. This week, one of the big guys, this is the episode everybody's been talking about, yelling at me about, Instagram, tweeting, Facebook, knocking on my door at 2 in the morning. When's Tom, when's Superman going to be on your show? Your wish is granted.

Tom Welling is on the show today. Clark Kent, he's done a lot of other stuff too. I know you love him as Clark Kent. We're going to talk about everything. I swear to God. I'll wait to hear what old Tommy has to say. Growing up as a nice guy in high school, how all of us on Smallville wrote a letter to the studio to get him a driver because he used to wake up at 4.30 in the morning, worked 18 hours. And then I secretly wrote a letter to the studio about myself because I was jealous and I wanted a driver too. And they didn't give me one. How about the time I yelled at him on set? And then he came over and gave me a big hug. Lots of Smallville, him being on Lucifer and his divorce. Now I can't wait. Let's get inside of Tom Welling. It's my point of you.

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. I don't want you to have a back problem. I have to lean the whole time and go, yeah, the podcast was all right, but I had to lean. I'll send you the bill. We're with Thomas John Patrick Welling. Is it not? No.

What is it? It's Thomas Joseph Willing. I don't know where the John Patrick comes from, but I like it. Is that like John Patrick Kelly? Sure. Joseph is your middle name? Rob, what the fuck, dude? I've known this guy for fucking 15 years, and that's why I was shocked when I saw this.

That's the internet, bro. I didn't give you those notes. You're fired. You're fucking fired. Again. We've known each other a long time, Tom. I first of all I 15 years 15 years and I just want to say I appreciate you allowing me to be inside of you today yeah yeah how do you feel about it innuendo comes to mind innuendo in your window that's what comes to mind yeah so we've been friends for a long time I think I really feel like I'm one of the only people you actually liked on that show um I was one of them one of them one of them yeah I'm sure you liked a couple you have to say you liked a couple or then they would assume he only liked Rosenbaum I like most of them no yeah now now Are there's some you didn't like?

Oh, no. I liked them all. Everybody was really nice. You know, as time goes on, you know that, you know, when you're in it, there's a lot of it that, you know, you're tired and, you know, blah, blah, blah, you know, poor me. But more time that goes from that show, the more I remember it fondly. Right. You only remember the good stuff. Yeah.

Well, I remember, I remember some bad times. A couple times in the rain yelling at Marshall or whatever, but, you know. Oh, my God. Do you remember that? All right, so let's start early. We'll get there. I'm going to get inside. I just want to know about childhood.

Like, you know, first of all, were you always a tall person? No. I was, I was probably, I didn't start getting told to, like, freshman and sophomore year high school. In middle school, I remember being like 5'3 and dancing with girls taller than me. Really? It was fun, yeah. When did you have hair in your balls?

First time. First hair. Do you remember the first hair that went in? You're like, yeah! It's a pub! I don't think I do. I used to pray for them because I started puberty so late. I used to, you know, when you did shirts and skins basketball,

ball i never if i was skins i was like all of a sudden i got sick i was like nauseous i go i can't do it i know something happened why i don't want to take my shirt off why rosamob you don't have hair under your arms the fuck's wrong with you i don't know my dad's six five i'm four eleven as a sophomore in high school you weren't like that though i don't think i mean i don't remember thinking that so i don't think so you weren't concerned about your pubic hair you just knew that it was there and it was coming in normally yeah i mean i i i'm still hope i'm i'm just i still hope it comes in yeah at this point the well the funny thing is i remember walking in the makeup trailer you with your shirt off on the show and they were like shaving

your back so you kind of just went full circle thank you for allowing telling everyone i'm hairy and the henderson's that you worked with it's true it's like my legs aren't hairy my arms aren't hairy my chest gets a little jack tripper from threys company and my back does but you know what when i was bald i felt like i had to be bald all the way down i was a method balder a method shaver right you didn't have to worry about that you just had to have good hair i was why didn't you just like Philip, a bathtub of nair or something jump in there. Because that's probably a better idea.

All that time. I think if I used nair on my head it probably would have been, I wouldn't have hair right now. Yeah. I mean, I'm not sure how that stuff works, but I remember Steve talking about it. Remember Steve? Steve, our gay wardrobe guy. He was like, Rosenbaum, you are gay except for your dick. Everything about you is fucking gay. He did say that many times. I love Steve, didn't you? How many times did you? How many times did you? How many times?

How many times did you? More than a handful, I'm sure. I always asked him. I go, what does Tom look like naked? He's like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm telling you anything. I'm like, wow, you're good. How do I look like naked? He's like, eh. You know what I mean? So as a young kid in New York, you're of German descent. Did I get that right? I knew that. Yeah. You don't speak any German? No, I don't speak any German. You ever been to Germany? Yeah. In Munich. Really? Traveled around a little bit. Munchen. Munchen. Munchen. Muncheon. Shrabe and de Chosen. It means I shit my pants. Well, did you use that when you were just in Germany on

tour? Yes, they didn't like it. I honestly, the first song I was so nervous, I was just like, I'll be funny, but my comedy doesn't translate not only in America, but not in Germany. So I'm up there going, I'm going, I'm going to the Khoszengemacht, and all these blank German faces. I just didn't know what to do. So, uh, I'd have been that lone guy just like dying in the, you would have died. You always, that's what I always loved. I was like, Tom gets me. He just like, we, we made each other laugh. Yeah.

We just got along. If I was having, you always say, I always loved this. It was like, when you were having a bad day and you're like, fuck, I just worked 18 hours and this and that. And they're making me, you know, do this stunt. My back hurts. And then Rosenbaum comes in. he's pissed off all your worries and troubles ago. I just got happy all of a sudden.

Like, we couldn't occupy the same anger space at the same time. I would look at you. And you would just be laughing. And I'm like, what the fuck's so funny, Welling? You're like, you're fucking pissed off. You just made my fucking day. That's true. It's very true.

It is true. So you grew up in New York. You have brothers and sisters. Yeah. Two older sisters, younger brother. Right. And did you all get along? Happy loving family?

Yeah, I didn't see much of my sisters. I guess I was a bit of a terror kid. So they stayed away from me. What do you mean? Like, I would just, like, and when I was really small, I'd bite, like, punch and kick. Like, it was just mean. You're a dick? Yeah, I was a dick.

And I'd steal their shit and, like, break their dolls and stuff like that. And so I don't really remember my sisters until I was, like, maybe 16. Really? Yeah. Now, are you close now with your family? Yeah. You see them? A couple times a year.

I got a brother in Hawaii, and my one sister lives in New York and the other one lives in Pennsylvania. Were any of them actors? No. My brother did a little movie and then was like, uh-uh, I don't want to do this. And how old was you, them he must have been 20 late 20s when he did it so you were you were playing sports growing up in high school yeah so as a little kid what were the sports baseball soccer basketball were you good were you like the star uh i was yeah when i was really young and then like as i got older

everybody started like really like working at it and i didn't i was just like what do you mean practice let's just go play you don't want to work no who does who does yeah so we're right why we're actors. Yeah. We don't want to work. So what happened in high school all of a sudden? What made you go, don't worry about Rob. He takes pictures.

He's his first trade is he's a photographer. It's not even for the show. Yeah, he's going to jerk off to these pictures later. Aren't we all? So when was the first time you said, uh, acting? I want to do a play. And why the hell would you do that? I guess when I was a little kid, I was in plays and musicals.

I was like in middle school, stuff like that. And then as I got into high school, it wasn't, you know, I guess it wasn't cool anymore. So I got into a sports thing. And so I guess when I was young, being up on stage and would have singing and doing all that stuff, I guess made me feel pretty comfortable. Wait, wait, you can sing?

When I was a kid, I could. I mean, I've heard you sing. I mean, we sing for fun. Yeah, for fun, for fun. But so, do you remember your first musical, first time you got on stage? I don't remember the first time I do have a memory of being out there singing in Oklahoma.

And the mic was in front of me. And the place was packed, you know, with parents and shit. And I grabbed, I put my hands on the mic, like Bono or something like a rock star. Like a rock star. And finish the song and, you know, we go for the wardrobe change.

And I get by like my ear, I almost get picked up by the woman, by the teacher who was like directing the show. She's like, if you ever touch that microphone again, I will end you. I was like a little kid. This is a theatrical production.

This is not a rock show, Mr. Welling, Mr. Thomas, John Patrick Joseph Welling, the third is that what happened yeah and I was like man okay so after that was that kind of like a turn off too you're like fuck this no I just I didn't touch the mic anymore yeah that's for sure even this I'm like they could grab the mic it's a nice mic but it'd be like me talking you like this and just like that'd be weird going like this the whole time that would be really weird just jerk off my microphone so okay so you said screw screw it through high school I'm

gonna play sports yeah and did you get girls I mean you've always been a good looking guy Were you ever not a good-looking guy, you think? Or was it just a natural? Look, I know it's uncomfortable to ask you that because it's like, oh, come on. Was I always good-looking? Well, listen, I've gone through a lot of phases. I was Alfred Hitchcock as a baby. I was, what's his name from 16 Candles?

Anthony Michael Hall as a teenager. I could see that. I was such a nerd. I couldn't get nailed in wood shop. College, I went through this bucket head, you know, the hair, the bowl cut. I mean, I just got a bull cut in college. Yeah, I was just ugly. I had a goofy buck teeth.

Like, fucked up teeth. Somebody punched me in the face once, and my teeth were just fucking crooked. It wasn't till later. What did you get punched for? This guy, like, we were, I was playing ice hockey, and our teams were rivals. He played for another team, and my dad told his dad he was a pig or something. And he got mad that my dad said that. So instead of, like, his dad defending himself, he defended his dad.

But I was five feet tall, and this guy was a big. big kid so we're driving home from a south spencer basketball game me and pat lally and uh well first off at the basketball game i just wait i've met lallie yeah well lally's tom his brother pat i used to hang out with tom as much but we're at a basketball game and this kid says hey out of the way of rosembaum you freaking nerd or something and i go and i just said something smart ass you know me it was my defense mechanism at least i was sort of funny and i was like hey look at me I'm so-and-so, and I was doing like an early Farley. Hey, everybody, look at me.

I'm the big guy on it. And he got really upset because he was already thinking about my dad, calling his dad a pig. And we're driving home from South Spencer. And Pat Lally looks in the rear of your mirror and says, I think so-and-so. I'm not going to name his name. I think he's like right on our bumper. He's tailing in his car. He's tailing me.

And so I go, I don't know what happened, Tom. This is a bad idea. I go, pull over. And he goes, what? Pull over to the McDonald's. Let's get this over with. And he goes, fuck, Rosenbaum. And I went to the McDonald's, and he got out of his car with all his popular friends or whatever.

And I got out of the car. And he goes, he goes, you're a piece of shit. And I go, fuck you. And he starts yelling me. You know, your dad's a blah. I go, dude, settle with my dad. And then I started, like, bad, like, mouthing him. And, like, funny.

And people are starting to laugh. And I was making sense. And I turn around. And he just comes behind me. And I turn quickly. He punches me right in the face. And then I grab them and I threw him into the McDonald's door and it shattered it. Oh, God.

And we, well, I didn't really throw them. We both kind of went into it. I didn't really, you know, I'd just like to say that I did. Right. Anyway, fast forward, we get out of there because the guy, the manager comes out. The next day at school, we're at the cafeteria table. And he's not at school. Rosenbaum did this to you, 4-11 Rosenbaum?

And the next day I'm in the bathroom between classes. And there's nobody in there taking a piss and guess who walks in? And I'm like, I'm going to get the shit beat out of me. My mouth's already fat. I'm going to get beat up in the shitter. And this guy looks at me and goes, just keep your fucking mouth shut, man. And I go, I didn't start this.

And he goes, shut up. You know, I have to have the last word. But did you ever get beat up in high school? No, I had gotten a fight. What was his name? I don't remember, but he was a wrestler. And I remember being, I was tall, but I wasn't, I wasn't, like, big. And he was a little shorter, and he was on the wrestling team.

And it was, I don't know, over some girl. And it was like, I'll meet you in the parking lot. So, of course, I try to not go. And all my friends are like, no, dude, you got to go. Like, you got to go. We're here to walk you out. And it's like, fuck, I'm going to get, you know, this isn't going to be good. So I walk out there and it's literally like, what's that movie?

where they go outside five it's like five o'clock three o'clock high yeah yeah and it's like literally you know it feels like a hundred people in the parking lot and there he is like hopping around like like all jacked up and walk out and i was like hey man listen i put my hands up and he dives at my waist like a you know a wrestler and he tries to pick me up and he can't for whatever reason and i'm i reach over and i grab him by the waist and i pick him up and he lets go and i drop him and he falls right in his head and he gets knocked out and i was like you didn't even want to fight him i didn't want to find him so the next day we get pulled into the principal's office and i was like oh fuck i'm gonna get you know suspended or whatever and we're sitting there and the principal's talking

about what's going on he'll send i here he's not crying and i look over and he's crying and he's and i'm like dude it's all right i'm like so you were the nice guy who inadvertently beat him up dropped in his head and he was such a nice guy but he told the uh the principal he was worried about his parents finding out and everything and he said well and i was like well bad for the guy I mean, he was upset. Oh, my God. But it's funny how after the fight, how these people, it's, I don't know if it's, you earn their respect or just the embarrassment sort of catches up to them.

But in similar experiences, the guys are different people afterwards. It's like, why couldn't we have had this conversation before? Yeah, right? Everybody wants to fight. Yeah. I wish it would have got my way, that one, that fight instead of busted. It sounds like it did, though, but it took one in a job. In a way, you know, people didn't get me in high school.

How's your McDonald's, uh, coffee? Coffee. I got you some waters there. If you want to water, a little refreshing of a banana, if you want to suck on a banana over there? Half-eaten bananas. I'm really professional here. We really do you up.

So what happened? I guess after high school, you didn't want to be an actor. Because that kind of happened after you started, I guess, modeling. Someone saw you. You were doing construction. Yeah, I graduated earlier from high school

with a less than stellar, great average. Me too, me too. Because I just wanted to get out of there. I was like 2-4. Yeah, about that, around there. Just enough. I always say because I didn't try. Yeah, I didn't try.

I didn't try. ADD, STD, you know, everything. STD? Yeah, isn't that a thing? I think it's a bad thing. Well, I had crabs in college once. I got rid of those pretty quickly, though. Just shave your balls. Did you know what it was?

I thought, you know, when they have names for stuff and you're like, oh, you know, they're not really crabs. I remember being like 18 and like taking one off my balls and putting it up to the light and going, my God, that's a crab. that is a tiny minute crab and I screamed and my friend my roommate goes what's matter dude I go I have crabs he's like so what do you go get cream at the fucking store at howchens it's the grocery store and I remember going to the grocery store and going down an aisle and I looked for like crab cream you know and for and I stole it because I was too embarrassed to pay for it

could you imagine if I got caught stealing crab cream security guard to be way more what do you got oh yeah just go take this man i don't embarrass you anymore don't come back so all right so where were we so i want to i want to get into the modeling thing you're working construction yeah i was doing construction i went out to uh were you one of those guys who took your shirt off and looked hot no no no didn't do that i went over to uh uh buddy mine had a girlfriend in antucket and so we drove out there for like i don't know like a week and just like crash and uh yeah ran and this girl walked up to me on the beach and was like talking about modeling i was Like, yeah, I've heard about this.

Like, you know, I've heard about modeling. I've heard about modeling. Like, I know people who, like, you know, they pay other people money so that they can model. Like, like, I knew guys who would spend $5,000 so that they could then go model. And I'm like, I don't think that's the way to do it. She was, no, no, no, no, we pay you and blah, blah, blah. And I went out and shot an Abercrombie and Fitch catalog with Bruce Weber, who's actually a big time for, who I didn't know anything. How much did you, this is this first time you had real money?

Yeah. How much did you make in this commercial? That was just a catalog. That was like a, like a, you know, Abercromb, they used to come out those things. It must have been, there's like $5 or $10,000. Five or $10,000. How old were you?

Like out of nowhere. 18? 18. $10,000 for taking pictures. And I'm like, this is, this could work. This is great. It's a lot better than sweeping floors in a office, in a construction building. Right?

And that's what you're doing, sweeping floors. So now this starts, you start booking jobs. Yeah, I wasn't really good at the whole modeling thing because I was too tall. I was too, like, big. Right. Even when I, you know, did the whole, like, get skinny thing, I was still too, you know, they went, like 6-1-160 guys.

They want these skinny guys. They're real skinny guys. And at that point, I was already, like, 6'3 and I was, I was already too big. Do you have a girlfriend? Did you get girls in high school? Girls like you. There were girls around you. There, do you remember one specifically, like, even like now when you're with your

girlfriend or fiancé? Do you ever think of her and go, man, I don't miss those boobs? No. You don't do that. Sometimes you think about, you know, the ones maybe didn't get or the ones. like, oh, yeah, I guess that, you know, it wasn't so bad. I always wanted to sleep with Sarah Ferguson. She was hot.

She was so beautiful, but she wouldn't even look at me. Did you ever, like, look up what she looks like now? Yeah, she's fine. Remember, oh, I'm 45. I'm older than you. So now you can't look at people and go, God, look at what happened. You got to go just like, hey, they're 45 years old. They're not 18, 17.

You know, good for 45? Yeah, sure. She's married with three kids. No, no, I don't want to break up a marriage in Indiana. I don't know. I'm just saying her name. and we don't have to get into the what what could happen what town in indiana it was uh evansville indiana we were ranked the most obese city in the country a few years ago and the most depressed but i'd love going back

i'm going to google search sarah ferguson sarah ferguson actually it was newburgh indiana uh don't john maddenleys from evansville they shot the rosan house jamie carroll played baseball those are pretty much claim and you you what and me and me and me and i'm not even in the high school superstar list on the wall why not i think i don't know you got to go back there you know why i did i did this movie I directed back in the day. I talked about this before. And, you know, it was a dirty movie. It wasn't a clean movie. And some, you know, things took place to the high school and I don't think they appreciated it. And they took it, I guess, I don't know, but I think that has something to do with it. You shot it at that high school? Yeah, the principal, the guy who was actually the

principal at the time. And I told him you didn't have to do this, but he insisted there's a scene where some guy's dick is shown right near his face. Like he pops up in the back of a truck. And I go, you don't have to do this. You're the principal. It's like, no, no, I'm doing it. And so he did the scene and so there's a slow motion 120 frames a second coming up his dick right behind the rearview mirror in the car truck where he's driving he looks around he looks behind is oh my god and I guess he got some shit for it and then he ended up quitting he's a good friend of mine now he didn't blame me I mean he actually he blamed me to the board and said I didn't know about this but I go I get it I would have lied to but he knew so and then people thought I was like misrepresenting

the principal I'm like that I wasn't even that was just an actor it wasn't he wasn't He wasn't like the principal. This guy was fat in the movie. Our principal was thin. I don't know. I think they took some, you know. People like to figure out things to complain about. So what, when did that first acting thing start?

And by the way, were you like one of these guys were just going with the flow? Did you kind of think, I am cool, man. I'm modeling. No, I thought this is, you know, under the guise of, you know, modeling, I can move to Europe and travel around and, you know, travel. So I would, you know, go to some of these castings and not get them most of them and be like, all right, cool, jump on a train and take off for the weekend and go check out some city somewhere whether it was in Italy or we talk about Germany. I live in Munich for like three months

and I just sort of like ran around. It was fun. You know what's funny is you're so fucking humble. I try to get shit out of you sometimes and it's true. It's like even on set or whatever you're just what I've come to find is like at first there's times like ah you know this 20 year old punk he's coming he's doing smallville and like you know I've been busting my ass and now I got to play the he's a good looking guy and on the bald freak and you know all these things but you were always so

humble and you never like you I read it somewhere and I think you told me this but you're like I don't like interviews I just don't I like to do my job and go home yeah and I and I was like oh come on come on but you have to do interviews sometimes you didn't have to do this but we're buddies and you did it yeah yeah in fact we did another thing that didn't air because it didn't get picked up by sci-fi they're yeah by the way not only did I have fun doing that I had fun watching it wasn't that even watching it I got to somehow air that you were so funny and we had so much fun and genuine laughs. Yeah. Yeah. So I got to get that. That was like, it was called Super Friends with Rosenbaum. Yeah. So I had to change this to inside of you with Rosenbaum in case they wanted assuming. Well, the other thing about interviews is, you know, people say, yeah, but, do the interview and it's your opportunity to tell the industry and tell people how you really feel and what you're doing. And I'm like, yeah, but I don't, I'm not interested in telling anyone. Like, what I don't even like listening to what I have to think or say. They're just finding something that's provocative. They want to find something about you that they can make a spin. They can do a spin of like. Do you remember that time we did that. that Rolling Stone interview.

Oh, my God. And we caught that guy trying to record a conversation without John. Yeah. Do you remember that? Yeah. And then they wrote something about me and my balls and all this stuff. It was weird. It was where they aired everything.

Well, and so anyway, early on, you know, we get that opportunity and that happens. So then I'm like, well, you know, I tried. And then this is what people do? Like, why do interviews? Yeah. This is why I don't. Rolling Stone, you have to do it, Tom. WB saying you got to do this interview.

And then you're like, listen, fuckers, this is why I don't want to do all these interviews. you know and I was like look I'll take his interviews yeah I don't want I don't want to just be page 47 or sci-fi weekly I will take the cover of entertainment weekly that's right why am I not on there I think I was on there they cut me out it didn't matter it was fine there was so much going on that early and I had no idea what I was doing you know another thing that I realized is there were things that happened on that show and because I had zero experience I just accepted for reality whether it was the hours or the locations or shooting where we were shit or other things and I remember you being like dude it's not supposed to be like this because you

You had been around. You knew what things should be and when they were wrong or when you're out, I always refer to this, but when you're out in the freezing rain in Vancouver and there's rain towers and, you know, it's clear that the situation has not been planned the way it should. And you are driving, or all of us are driving an hour to a location at 4.30 in the morning with one eye open and you're in every scene. I think they got to a point where like we all, like, signed a letter for you because we're like, you're going to kill Superman. You're going to kill our Superman.

From what I remember, I don't know if it was you, Schneider, somebody, but unbeknownst to me, because I saw, I was just told it was already done, but you guys all signed something because we weren't, you know, for the listeners, we weren't allowed to have drivers for some reason. But yeah, you know, I was getting up at 430, driving an hour and a half,

working an 18 hour day, then driving back, sleeping five hours. And you guys were like, well, he's going to die. He's going to run into a tree and the show's going to be over. So you guys kind of gave up, you know, you waved your rights. to if one had a driver, but he had a driver. So then I got a driver, and that was, that was a big difference.

Can I tell you something? I actually said, I like a driver. And they gave me a stipend. It was like $1,000 a week. Nice. I didn't get a driver. I get driving, but I kept the thousand. I just want to be honest with you.

Paid for your ticket to get up there. Yeah, yeah. So what was, so you're modeling. I'm sure you told the story, but like, so you did judging Amy. How did that have? Was that the first thing? No. What was the first kind of, like, acting gig?

The first thing I ever auditioned for was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but it was in New York. And I didn't, I mean, I didn't know even how to, how do you learn lines? Like, I didn't know anything. I didn't know anything. So I went in there and I didn't get the part, but they, Fox offered me a holding deal out of nowhere. And unbelievable. Hey, you didn't get the part, but we like you. We're going to give you money for a holding deal.

Back then they had holding deals and they'd give you $100,000 to hold you for it. Yeah, this one, this one, I think it was 50 grand, move out to L.A. Oh, yeah, bro. And, you know, and I was like, you know, and everybody's like, sign it, sign it, sign. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, let's do the math here. Let's, you know, this is, this is how my brain works. Because they cut that in half for taxes. I don't have a car.

I'm going to have to buy a car. Sounds like you're divorce. Cut it in half. There you go. Jesus. Jesus Christ, we'll get into that. And then get a place to live by a car. Agent, this, that.

At the end of it. It's nothing. And they own you. And they own you. Right. And that's the part that I really didn't like. Yeah. So I turned that down but moved to L.A.

And then spent about six months auditioning and having people go, oh, you know, you're just a little green. You're just a little green. I'm like, what does that mean? Nobody could tell me what that meant. Did you rage at all when you first moved out to L.A.? Because when you're young, you got to rage a little. No, because you have to understand,

I had just spent two years living in Europe bouncing around, quote, unquote, modeling, and then in New York. So you already partied. I had already had a lot of fun. Right. So it wasn't. You wanted to get down to business. What's the next step?

And what was the next step? Well, I ended up getting judging Amy and... You auditioned for that. I did. That was kind of a funny... Did you make out with Amy? I did. How was that?

And she was pregnant at the time. Was there tongue work? No, I don't think so. I don't remember. Did you try? I mean, a guy who didn't know what he was doing if you figure if we're kissing the scene, we're doing tongue. I'm not going to go on a date and kiss a girl and go, with no tongue.

It's weird. She's like, what do you eat? You got to put the tongue in there. So did you not try to judge Amy or did you? Or you thought she'd judge you if you did that? I don't. I don't remember. I'd probably go back and watch it.

Did she have fresh breath? She must have, because I don't remember her not. Oh, because you always remember the bad breath. Yeah. Yeah. But I went into that audition, and it was me. I was like, I don't know, 21 or 22. And all these guys in the room are like 45.

And I'm like, fucking agent sucks. Like, I knew from like even the modeling world. Like, if you walk into a room and there's a bunch of like skinny blonde-haired guys and you're like a big dark-haired guy, like you're getting sent to the wrong fucking place. So I'm like, motherfucker and blah, blah, blah. So I did the audition, and I got to call a week later, and it turns out they had been looking for an older guy, they cast the guy, he couldn't do the job, so they were going to rewrite it so that her character's boyfriend is 20 years younger.

And so they're like, we want you to come in. Right. So that's how that happened. And then right at the end of that is when the Smallville thing happened. So then I was gone to Vancouver. So it all did happen quick, even. So what was the thing with Smallville? It was one of these things where you're just like.

They say, hey, there's this young Superman show. Yeah. And you weren't interested in first. No, I was like, that sounds horrible. I wasn't interested either. That sounds horrible. Yeah, I was like, oh, gosh, this is going to be the next whatever. It's going to be goofy.

Because you have, you remember, there wasn't anything like that show. No, you thought it was going to be a soap opera. W.B. was only making soap operas. And we didn't want to be in a soap opera. And I thought, you know, I'm doing movies. Things are happening. And, you know, so what was it that? Well, they said, I know now that it was David Nutter who had spoken.

spoke into my reps at the time and be like just have him come in read the script what a talent yeah he's great i just saw him a couple weeks ago does did you see the game of thrones episodes guys he's he's a genius and he was phenomenal with this pilot yeah he made you know by the way if you guys don't know this if you shoot the pilot on a tv show you get like five thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars for every episode that it goes on so when we did 300 episodes he would just get checks what's 500 how many episodes did small it'll do well i guess what um 200 something 220 what's 220 times five rob the fuck god one fucking question he's not even pretending he's not even there it's a million dollars it's a million dollars you got a million dollars

but he really started out it was his he's the successful so go ahead so you met so you met with david nutter well no i didn't even made him i went in and read the script and i was like oh wait a minute this isn't a young superman running around this is about a kid in high school he's trying to figure out who he is and what his thing is so then i was like all right cool I have a couple questions and I met with Al and Miles and had some questions about like just what are we doing and are we going to be flying around and he's going to put

the suit on and all these things and they were like, no, never, never the suit, no flights, no tights. It was kind of funny how they got us, you know, to kind of do it with these like alter ego characters that we played. Right. You did as well. I remember the little Zod thing. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. God, I felt so stupid

wearing that suit. Neil to Zod! I give like a Hitler thing or whatever, I don't know. You came, we were out at the farm one time, and you came down on wires. You guys don't understand this. And you guys were like, you were like, I don't know what your line was, but then you started just turn. You're laughing your dick, fuck, you're laughing your dick off.

It was the most, oh, God. Dude, I remember, like, like, they were having me on wires, and I had this, like, trench coat that was longer than me. And I'm up there, and I'm supposed to be Zod. And I don't know how it happens to Zod. And I'm, like, supposed to be this powerful man. and I just like get I'm elevating and then I get down on the gun and I just go the crew's all there and they see me on wires and I'm just like embarrassed and I'm like this is stupid people are gonna laugh I'll never work again now when the people out there are fans and our friends and everybody see it they're like hey that looked really cool the effects were above you know before it's time and it's you know we just fell into something that was just one of the most special and it was before social media yeah I remember remember getting black berries and then like years later the iPhones like this this was all way before and there's

just if even I saw an episode not too long ago and I saw the effects and I'm like they still hold up I'm like how did they do that this is before and then all of the floodgates open with the flash and arrow arrow and everything and God bless them and I hope they're all you know they're huge and people love them but well Glenn Winter went on to it sort of started a lot of us it I mean it totally did like I mean it did it was the whole and people don't understand that it's it's It's not like, hey, it's a good director. You have to have a great script, a great director, you know, great writers, actors that you like.

They don't have to agree, but you have to like them. You have to be invested. All these elements have to line up for a hit show. Yeah. And they just happened. And I had done a lot of shit. I remember calling my dad up going, you know, hey, dad, I'm doing this movie. He's like, who's in it?

Well, nobody you know. It's an independent. Independent. That doesn't sound real. That's not a movie. an independent they don't call these movies independent movies they're movies what do you mean nobody nobody really wanted to make yeah my dad was a dick i love him but he's a dick fucking dick and then when i saw david nutter brought me in to do a dr which what stands for additional dialogue recording i

believe or something like that deeping he goes do you want to see the beginning of the pilot and i go i guess it's gonna be another show that just sucks go ahead another rose and bomb and you're like oh and i walked i walked out of the room and i called my mom and dad and i said I'm on a hit show, and I think people might recognize me after this. It's the first time I ever said it. I never was like, oh, this is going to be huge. This is going to be huge. I said, this is it.

And I never had said that before. They were like, really? So it's not an independent movie, Michael? No, Dad. And fuck yourself independently. And as soon as that theme song kicks in, you know, in the trailer, even now, I mean, I haven't seen it a while, but, you know, that song, somebody saved me. How does that song go? Somebody save me

There you go I don't care how you do it Mother fucking just Save me God we hated that song for so long But it was a good song Yeah as good as that sounds Watching you do that is horrible

What was that? That was hilarious Oh yeah It was horrible I play upside down and backwards I know I don't even know the chorus of that song That was just improvised

As we like to call it bam smallville yeah everything changes so now what happens when you i mean super stardom you just went from like hey i'm modeling a little and living in l.a to a 22 year old rock star well we were a little isolated because i think we were up in vancouver that helped that help yeah and the workload was just like nobody can tell you nobody i couldn't even tell somebody how to handle something like that because they're going you're working all those hours and then they're going oh and now you have to do the press now you have to do a photo shoot and i was like whoa you guys fuck off like yeah i gotta do my work here i always say this i say tom this is these are first world

problems so yeah this isn't like we're like but at the same time when you commit to a show and you're working like you especially and i worked a lot you didn't man but you're working and you had travel too i mean you would fly up i'd have to shave my head and whatever but the point is 10 years of your life yeah really does that show that was your family that was a show you're in vancouver and you lost not to say i hate to say the word lost but from twenty two to 32 or whatever, 25, whatever. I had no life to speak of, yeah. Those years when you could have been broke

but could have been living and traveling and doing whatever, and those were 10 years where you made a lot of money and you just didn't have a life. Right. And I wouldn't trade it. No. You know? If I would do it differently, I would prioritize a little differently to... How would you do that?

I would try to make more of an effort, I think, to live a life or to enjoy what I was doing as opposed to sort of like, getting mad at it because of, you know, the exhaustion or, I mean, your constant state of, like, jet lag when you, when you're there. Yeah. But, you know, thank God I was surrounded. And I mean, sincerely with you and the other cast members who were all happy to be, you know, everybody was happy to be there to do the good work. We really did get along.

Yeah. We did. Nobody didn't get along ever. Yeah. I think I probably lost my cool a couple times. I think I don't remember you. You don't remember me losing my cool? I'm not like for real losing your cool.

Like, I remember a yelling at you. Really? Yeah. I was directing an episode. but well here's oh wait i don't know and the dolly grip broke everything was fucking going crazy and we're two hours behind and marshall's already there he's a guy producer who's like always cross his arms he had a big belly and i you know i love more i love and hate marshal we got into like almost some brawls and uh you come on set and you're like rosamumum what the fuck are you

doing and i go fuck you welling fucking stanley kubberts spielberg fuck you because you already And you go, dude, I'm just kidding. And I just looked at you. You gave me a big hug. But that was it. That was the only time you and I ever. Yeah. But even then it's still, you know, it was just the foundation of love and support no matter what.

It was. And look, we all know, we had all felt on our own that breaking point of exhaustion. And you recognize it. You can, like, smell it on other people when they have it too. Yeah. And the best thing you can do is just sort of like, laugh it off. Laff it off. Just fucking, you know, take a norco.

Mm-hmm. Just fucking chill out. I'm going to ask you a question You could say fuck off But I don't think you will say fuck off We don't have to talk deeply about it But you know you were married At a young age

Yeah You were a young man How old were you? You crossed your legs on this one I sense discomfort Yeah I sense the dark side coming Yeah

You never talk about it You're not an open guy All I want to say is this I fucking told you not to do it Yeah I told you not to get married And no offense to your ex-wife But I said dude

You're fucking 22 man I think you also were like there's a lot going on right now just take a beat like if you're going to do it you can do it next year but just just hang on man i mean you could have like i was like what is going on he's 22 he doesn't know what he's doing yeah look she didn't know what she was doing she was young too you were and you somehow i will say this you fucking fought through it and you did it as long as you could and that says a lot look 70% of marriages end in divorce or more you know and you with working so much it probably is not easy

in the relationship. No, no. No. It was, there, no. You're working 18 hours a day and you get home and all of a sudden, you know, she wants to talk about something you don't want to talk about. It's not as, it's not like you just, you know, you're arrested man. You don't really have much, you don't, you don't really have much more to give once you, once you get home, to be honest.

Like, it's unfortunate. Maybe that's something that I realized, too, like, you got, you got to suck it up. You got to give maybe a little more effort. But that's the part of, if I were to do, like, the show or that situation, again, being up there and working so much, I think, I would have taken a beat to just, um, experience it in a way of just more joy and appreciation rather than just like, oh, I'm so angry all the time, you know. You had to grow up so fast where I still haven't grown up.

I don't know if I really grew up, but I grew up like professionally, I think I did. I think there's a, you've always had a good head on your shoulders, even if you play it off sometimes, you always seem like you're just a good guy who wants to just not be left alone, but sort of just like, hey, I want to just hang out with my friends or my family or my girlfriend. and do you guys are in contact your ex anymore no nothing zero i'll be honest with you she uh she facebook requested me and i i i just of course i couldn't say yes i mean you know my allegiance is with you and i'm you know you're my pal i'm not going to be like hey how are you what's going on tom like i you know i didn't really um but uh you know i mean it's a crazy my parents

were divorced after 27 years um my mom's in her third marriage my sister is marrying for the fourth time. She's like, you're coming to my wedding, right? I'm like, no, I'm waiting to your eighth. I really like the number eight. And, uh, but that's Indiana. Yeah, so you've seen, you know, yeah, I just, you know, you got to grow up and, you know, I guess you try to just learn, not make the same mistakes, you know.

Was it a horrible divorce? Oh, no, they're never, have fun. They're never fun. No. Where you kind of like, just take whatever. I don't give a fuck. Just leave me alone. I think there was, um, there's a lot of, uh, one, one person being rational, one person

being irrational about how that all went. And at the end, it ended up being rational. At the end, here's the thing. At the end, there's a, there's a, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. There always is. Because now you're dating someone. Now you're engaged. No, you're not.

You're just dating. I don't know that. I just threw that out there. That was funny the other day when you text me. Well, you're engaged, right? No, you go, you text me. You go, hey, buddy, how's it going? I want you to do my podcast.

Yeah, I just broke up on the girlfriend. How's your girl? And I was, and I go, what? You broke up with your girlfriend? And now you text me about my girl? Bring it on, motherfucker. Good luck. By the way, she's awesome.

She's terrific. She's, you know, how long you've been dating? A couple years. Jessica, and her last name is Rose. Wouldn't it be easier if I dated her? Jessica Rose and Baum, wouldn't that be easier? Look, I don't have a chance. Did you enjoy making out with Kristen Crook?

I think I sure as hell did. I know. She was great because I think she understood you. She understood me. Like, she understood the show. I think she understood the characters. She was perfect in that role as an actress and as a person. there was one co-star that you did you were always a gentleman you were always like you know you never you were always committed to your marriage and all that back then I never saw you like go but I remember there was one girl you were smitten with just like you thought she was cute there was one girl yeah you do I forgot her name blonde she was a guest star I don't know but I remember we looked at each other and we're like in your head you didn't say it but I could see like it was the Jedi it was like we were Jedi's like we were Jedi's what's that shit called when you could talk telepathy telepathy thanks for your

one right answer for the whole fucking podcast no but figure out that equation yeah how much money well he said a million he said one point one million one point one million thank you an hour later um but i remember going you looked at me and he's like if i wasn't married and i'm like mm-hmm and i would if she was interested we both that's what was said without saying she was interested in me i could just see you being like, man, I swear if she even would. So you've done a lot of other shit. I mean, people like, at first it was like, you know, I think when you're younger and you get on a show and you're like, I'm Lex Luthor, you know, like, I want to do other things, though.

And a lot of actors be like, I don't want to talk about that. There comes a time where you either like, look, I think I embrace the shit and I think you do too now. It's one of those things. I do now, yeah. Yeah, it took time because it's hard playing the same role. And you're like, hey, I'd like people to see me as another, you know, some other. But you have all these fans that support you and watch you and whatever you do.

And to me, if somebody said, I know we've talked about this before in the show that never aired, but it was like, if this was all we did, would it be enough? Yeah. And I'm like, fuck yeah. I was a legendary character for seven years. You are for 10 years. You made some money. You had fans. People enjoyed you.

People like soldiers from Iraq would say we watched sets of Smallville and it saved our lives. And I didn't believe. I was like, this is impossible. But we touch so many people that is, don't you feel the same way? Yeah, I think now that the show's been over, I think we've had time to sort of reflect. And have those experiences to understand that. Because when you're up there shooting it, you don't get to see.

That's all there is. You don't meet the people who are actually fans and watching the show. So you don't, you know, to you, it's just a lot of hard work. Yeah. You know, but then you get a beat and, you know, maybe you go to Comic Con or maybe you go and instead of being out in front of a bunch of, um, um like uh what do you call like interview people who are just trying to like find something out about you you're actually in front of your fans who just really appreciate what you're doing and

that's that's when it's like oh wow this is actually cool it's in a way it's like unconditional love it's like i i loved you and you gave me so much entertainment for all these years and it's something really beautiful about that so i'll go to conventions and people will come up and it's shocking it's joy it's joy and it's shocked that like they like my dad was sick and i watched we watched this this was our show together and you don't think about those things when you're doing a show and you're working and you're this but there's something pretty fucking cool about that but you went on

to do a lot of things you worked with Steve Martin for cheaper by the dozen one your buddy we almost worked with them at the same time I had to wear a bad wig which fucking pissed me off I looked like shit I had to wear these wigs during that seven years dude I mean I shouldn't have done anything because it's just all these bad wigs I worked with West Craying

shitty wig they had the but you worked with Steve Martin was that you love that yeah it was fun that was fun Was he nice to you? Did you eat with him? Did you hang out with him? Yeah. Anything funny happened with Steve Martin? Yeah, he, let's see. I mean, he was, he was, you know, as you know, he doesn't really tell jokes. It's just sort of like the way he sees the world. But there was an experience. I think it was in, it was on the, yeah, one of the first weeks I was working on Cheap by the Dozen, we were out at the family house in the country.

And I was walking down the hill back to where the trailers are by myself. And I heard a banjo playing. And I walked around, you know, we have all these trailers. setup and I walked around, I stuck my head around a corner, and I saw this horse up against the fence with his head over the fence. And it's like a weird, like, I can see it. It's like a camera shot. I went like across the body of the horse to the head down to the banjo, to the hands playing the banjo. And I look up and it's Steve Martin playing a banjo. And this horse's head knows is like an inch from the banjo. And he's just playing. And I'm like, I just stood there. I'm like, this is the funniest. Like, it's literally so funny. I couldn't

laugh. That's how amazing it was. And he looks over and he finishes playing. And the horse kind of goes away. And I was like, when did you start playing the banjo, Steve? It's like the first time around. We got to shoot something here, buddy. And he goes, he goes about, I think he said, well, 20 years ago, I figured if I started playing the banjo, 20 years later, I'd be good at it. And as you know now, he tours and he's like one of the best banjo players in the world. But anyway, that was like the first conversation I had with him. So that was a good kickoff point. And you worked with Kevin Costner. That was cool. And you played a football play, you played a quarterback.

Kevin was cool because, what was the movie? Draft Day. Draft Day. I really like. That's a movie big. If I see it on, I watch it a movie. It's fun. It's always nice when you like a movie, even if it didn't do well.

Like, I have that movie like sorority boys. It's a cold. I just love it. We had so much fun on set. It's just a memory. But how was Kevin Costner? He was great. I think the first scene I had with him, I have to yell at him and getting his face and the first

take. Your first day? Yeah. And so I get his face and I'm yelling at him. I'm yelling at him. And then I just sort of like, realize I'm talking, like, I'm working with Kevin Kossner. like it hits me right in the middle of my line my big paragraph and I just go blank

and I was like uh and they were cut all right let's go again and I was like were you nervous is that would happen all of a sudden I guess it finally came out you know that nervous feeling when you're like all of a sudden you think about something yeah it's like with with anything it's like when you get up to bat with the bases load and you're like you think of you can't think about it you're like oh shit the bases are loaded you just got to be confident and do it it's like with anything when you're an actor you got to commit and like that's happened to me times where I'm all of a sudden I'm like working with Stallone yeah it's I'm like, oh, my God, that's fucking Rocky.

What's my life? I only have one. Beth. Bath or script supervisor. I loved her. But so I just go blank. And I was like, fuck, fucking Kevin comes over. And he's like, you're right?

And I'm like, yeah, dude. He's like, don't worry about it. I'm like, no, I am going to worry about it. I want to be good. I want to be good for you. And it just kind of came out. And he puts his hand on my shoulder. He goes, hey, listen, just remember that when I fuck up my lines, just let me off the hookers.

He said something like something comforting and sweet. And I was like, Genuine. Thanks, dude. And then from there, we just, then we nailed it. But it was just cool

because, you know, it's Kevin Costner. It's Kevin Costner. I mean, and now, what am I doing here, you know? So you've been doing stuff.

You liked, like, I'm sure a lot of people know this, but you directed, what, seven episodes of Smallville? Seven or eight, yeah. Like it directed episode 150, which was a big one.

I mean, and by the way, I got to say, it's like when any actor says I'm going to direct, it's like, oh, fuck. And when you directed,

you were just right there. And I remember watching the episode going, he had my back. Because you knew my strengths. You knew and you wanted to make us good. You wanted everyone to be good. And I think that's the sign of a really good director as someone who is not about him. It's like, hey, this is them on screen. How can I bring out the best in them?

Yeah, elevate the material. And, you know, we were, both of us were lucky to direct on a show where we already knew the people that we were directed. It helps. It helps a lot. That's a good, like, yeah. I mean, I don't know what your experience was like with your film that you directed and how much you knew those people. But, you know, I didn't know them at all. It can't be easy to direct people that you don't have a rapport with,

which now I realize when, you know, when you do movies or other projects and the directors are like, hey, you know, spend some time together beforehand. Years ago, I was kind of like, why? Because on Smallville, you'd show up and you'd meet the director and you'd work. And then these films, the directors would be like, let's go out to dinner. I'd be like, well, why? I don't have time to go to dinner, first of all, because I'm flying in from Vancouver to do this. Right.

But now I realize it was to establish rapport. And, you know, that's something that I had to learn. And then you started producing and you had to show Hellcats and produce her and last thing. We're bringing that back on a, on a, apparently online, they've been airing it. Right. And it's very popular in like small doses. So they want to redo it and test it out online. And if it goes well, we'll bring it back to put it back on air again.

That's awesome. It's got a little cult following, I guess. Yeah. Back in the day, you know, it got canceled because the woman, I forget her name, who was running one of res, or CW left. Lisa Lewis? No, but I saw Lisa the other day. I love her. A great woman, huh?

She does Lucifer. Right. So now, how many years have small been over for you? What is it? Five? Seven? It's like five or seven years. See, I don't even know.

It takes time because when I left in 2008 or nine or whatever, I remember just like, I grew my hair out. I called my agent. I said, I want to have general meetings with everybody because I want them to see me with hair and see that I'm not this, like, evil, weird guy. And it's like starting over. Yeah. And I was like started doing little comedies and this and that up to, like, all

this stuff. How did you feel when you directed? Did you just say, I don't want to do a fuck? Because that's how I felt right away. I'm not doing anything for a while. Oh, yeah. I literally didn't do anything for, I think, like, six months. I literally went away. I just, I went out east and, like, I just needed to, I needed to do all the shit that I wanted to do for 10 years, but didn't have time or couldn't do. You know what I mean? Yeah. I know now that's what I was doing. But yeah, I was like, I'm gone. Right. So how did this whole thing with Lucifer happen? Well, yeah, that's just recent. Well, this season, this television season, I had sort of re-engaged about the, because for a couple of years, I just didn't want to go back to TV because I associated it with that experience of small

film. Absolutely. I just, uh, 15 hours every day in Vancouver. It's like, hang on. And by the way, I just did a show where I was in Vancouver for two seasons, but they're like, listen, it's only three and a half months. Right. It's beautiful in the summer.

We're not going to, you know, you're not there 10 and a half months. You're not shaving your head or your balls. these you know so that it takes you minute to readjust yeah because it's it's it's sort of like a it's it's in your blood the reaction of like oh no that's no I don't feel that way again yeah it's like and network television it's like 22 episodes I don't want to do 22 episodes it's great today it's like all the cable outlets you can do and what is lucifer where is it what is air on uh Fox and they're gonna do 22 episodes and I'm originally they they wanted me in 10 and it was pretty funny because it so I got the I'd been in I'd been in front of Fox on a couple other

projects this season that just didn't work out. And so I got a call on a Monday from my agent. It was like, hey, you know, we've got an offer for you for the show Lucifer. And I was like, oh, I think I know that show. And they're like, yeah. And so they sent me some episodes to watch. And the money was where it was. And, you know, they wanted 10 episodes. And it shoots in LA, which was like, oh, like really? Like, no way. Wow. That's the biggest thing. When you're near, when you're home, you can go in your bed. That means a done. So they go, like, it was kind of funny. They're like, all right. So, you know, it's time to tell them yes or no. And you would work, you're going to work on Friday.

This is like, Wednesday. And that's the biggest nerd. Like, I hate when people are like, hey, they need to know you're working tomorrow or the next day. I'm like, I need to prepare. I know. I can't memorize my lives. I don't know what I'm going to look like.

Why didn't you guys call me last week? That's so scary. It's a scary thing. And it's fear based. Yeah. We're both, I think it's fear based. It's like, a lot of actors will go, yep. I'm like, why?

You're like, you're like, you're superhuman. I'm like, no, no, no. Well, they've learned they can do it, I guess. I guess, yeah. You know, I know that I at times spent a lot of times worrying about the wrong things. And during this process, it was like, let me worry about the right things here. Yeah. And that's why I came together so quickly when they, you know, called back and I'm like, hey, listen, guys, I don't know about this 10 episodes.

They're like, they need you for 10. They can't do any less. I'm like, how about like 15? And they want to do more? You want to do more? I'm like, yeah. I'm like, this is great. I love the show.

So wait, you guaranteed 15 now? Yeah. Wait a minute. They came in at 10 and you said, no, I want more episodes. Yeah. I want to be on more. Yeah. That is awesome.

The show is that. I mean, it's literally that good. People love the show. They love the show. And now I'm going to watch it because you're on it. And Beeman, thanks. And Beeman had directed some of those episodes. You know, we love Beeman and he knows us.

And I reached out to him and he was like, Tom, I know you. You're going to love this show. You're going to love those people. They have a great time. They get their job done. There's no, you know, there's horsing around, but they're not fucking around. You know, they're getting it done. You're going to love the cast.

Trisha Helford, Amy Garcia, who I know, they're awesome. And they already are, like, in love with you. How long? You haven't, you just started shooting. Yeah. Like when? I worked yesterday, and I've worked about four days so far over the last couple weeks. And you're loving it.

Yeah, it's fantastic. It's so much fun. What kind of character is this? Are you allowed to say? I'm not really allowed to say. He comes in and, you know, you're not supposed to know what is. He's kind of a dick. Right.

Their season last year, all their characters sort of ended up getting along, like, on the show. I guess they realized we need some adversity we need some uh struggle yeah so like lucifer and and the character that he's partnered up with at the you know they're like getting along so i come in and i just basically like you guys are off you know you guys are full shit and get to get to work and i get to be a dick but there's you'll find out that no wonder you took it there's a reason i don't want to play the nice guy i don't want to play the right you know it's always nice when you get to do that yeah it's a different it's a different muscle and it's a little more fun. And it's funny because, you know, one thing I like with his character is, you know,

Lucifer comes in and he's like, hey, I'm Lucifer. And he kind of walks like this. Is that how he talks? He's English. He's English. I'm and I'm and I'm so crazy and weird. And I know everything and my character's like, yeah, anyway. And just sort of like walks past him. I just don't care. Oh, no wonder you like this guy. But it's good comedy, right, in between the beats him. That's great. Yeah. But that's, yeah, that's a really big reason why I like this guy. I like this. I like this. I like this. I like seeing you. you happy too i mean you're always a happy guy but it's like you're picking yeah you're picking and you don't do you know you don't work people are like well what does you do what it's i'm like because

tom's worse i mean he's like i don't want to fucking do unless it yeah it does something for you well and it's also like i i can be some sometimes i'm like a light switch i mean they're on or off things you know right and when i'm on them i'm really on them and it's like almost too far and like blinders and we get in our own way i think i think a lot of people do i think we just like that's that's the thing it's just like i don't you know it's fear based a lot of You just got to say, fuck it. Yeah. I'm going to do it.

And what happens if I fail? Yeah. Who gives a shit? And sort of, you know. Or not even think that way. Think, what if I'm great? Yeah. Or just like get out of your own way or get over yourself.

Or what if I make money? Yeah. You know, it's all good. But that's, you know, that's, you're a lot braver than I am in a lot of those respects. And that's something that, that you inspire me. Like even with what you're doing, like the funny thing you said about going over and playing music in Germany or the stand-up. I mean, that's, that's, well, you know what?

brave let me tell you don't think for a second that i get on stage every time and i'm just like natural and not and and just like fearless the in my head you are because i haven't seen right the first time i get up on stage uh harlan goes hey buddy you know dumb and dumber something about mary he's like hey buddy uh open for me in oxnard it's 600 people bud and i went up there and uh i was driving with my two friends and i went backstage and threw up and I had explosive diarrhea for a good 25 minutes. I was dehydrated. I was lightheaded.

And I was just so, I was so nervous. And it's amazing how then adrenaline kicks in. And your adrenaline sort of helps you're like, hey. And then you have this, you know, you have to just trust yourself. And I'm like, why do I go through all this struggle of getting nervous and throwing up and getting all these? Why does this keep happening? And my therapist says, because this is your process. This is what you do.

I go, so I have to have explosive diarrhea and throw up every fucking time. weird way of. Do you get like that? Anything like that? Well, it's, it's what, and I sort of mentioned this earlier, it's, it is your process. And what I've tried to do is go, all right, why do I have to get so angry and anxious and mad to get focused? Well, it's such a waste of energy. It's such a waste of energy. It really, like, why can't I just go, why can't I, why can't that be a better process and I can save energy and be a happier person? Yeah. Um, because I think that that was part of my process. Now, as far as throwing up in diarrhea, that, that, that hasn't happened. Yeah, that happened also when I went to Germany with the band.

I never really performed in front of a lot of people, and I was just, it's, it's like unbelievable. And I just said to myself, hey, man, this is bucket list stuff. This is like, if I suck, I suck. It's going to be worse if I don't do it. What am I going to be 80 years ago? Why didn't I do that? Who cares if you failed?

The only way to really make it or do what you want to do in life is to find out if you're good at it. And if you're not, then you go in a different direction. Yeah. You know, and if, if not doing it, if you fear not doing it more, then, And that's also a process that could be motivating. So what you do, honestly, you can answer this. Would you do anything related to Superman again?

If someone called and said, hey, we want you to be the next Superman. Or there was something really cool. Would you consider it? You know, you've heard me say this before that I, you know, I never played Superman. I played Clark Kent. Yes. And then a buddy of mine said the other. Well, the last episode, you put on a suit.

Exactly. Not the whole suit, but, and for years I would kind of say that. and I don't know, maybe I had a chip on my shoulder. And not long ago, a buddy of mine, we were talking about it. He goes, bro, who gives this shit if people call you Superman? It could be worse. And I'm like, well, I never played Superman. He goes, fuck you.

At least I'm not calling you Robin. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, you know. That's a good. Or asshole or nobody. Yeah. At least they're calling you something. They're calling you something.

That's better than, you know, hey, Lex Newton, man. Why don't you pick up the tag? You know, many times I've been in a bar. Like, there's the billionaire, man. I'm like, dude, I have a fucking. Star Wars t-shirt on. Do I look like a billionaire to you? No, no.

That wasn't me. That was a character I played. Yeah. Yeah, but you just got to go, okay, what the fuck. Yeah. But, you know, it's, you know, I've been asked to, like, show up

on some of the shows that, you know, whether it's the Arrow or the Supergirls and things like that. And I don't think that's necessarily for me. That's what they asked me to, and I say the same thing. It's not because of disrespect. It's like, hey, we gave you 10 years. I gave you seven.

It was great. You know, it's just like Superman. Also, there's an ego to it. It's like, Supergirl is a show with the lead characters and I don't want to come in and be like a secondary character

that's not me right now And it's I mean it sounds like a dick But I just don't want to go Hey Lex Luthor's gonna show up For two episodes It just doesn't make sense No it doesn't make any sense

And it's a different show It's a totally different tone It's their what they're doing is great What we have was special And I just don't want to mess that out You know We did with something Something else

I mean even on small We had a bunch of people Like they call it stunt casting Where you know you bring somebody in Who you know to, you know, to play a character, but you're, you're really hiring their, their name recognition a lot of times. And hopefully they get a role to play.

We had a lot of people do that on the show. And Dean Kane, who I love. He was great. I just saw him in London. But he came on the show. I played one episode and I killed him, which was fun. And he was just got a good, you know, he was cool about it. Right.

I think it's just what you want, what you want to do, what you think you should do, what's right at the time. And I always say, look, if something cool happened where, you know, for me, I think it's different because you know I shaved my head I'm different I guess I don't know but a Zach Snyder called me and said hey you're the next Lex Luthor I'd be like fuck yeah man and I fucking crush it yeah I really do I love playing that character it was hard as shit it was it was fucked with my head yeah I had daddy issues on the show and off the show and uh you know it was hard but to do a movie for a couple months that would be a medium and yeah great and I don't understand I never will understand the whole movie TV thing and and now it's different

because TV at movie actors are going to TV and you see it everywhere but he's doing Netflix and HBO and yeah big actors are coming to do TV right but I still don't understand that thing where it's like they look at a successful show like small and I'm like why don't they ever fucking consider me for Lex Luther I never understood that I wasn't pissed I was just like yeah they're idiots that's what I thought I just thought they're idiots yeah it's funny you know my experience being on Smallville and then now getting into produce you know the development producer world I now see that in the industry it's just two different in the industry itself not even the actors it's two different worlds i mean the

movie people and the tv people the executives like they don't they don't know each other they don't talk to like they don't like each other but there's no connection and so i think that then also is a part of for the actors there's no connection there's no you know people don't pay to see you on smallville but they they have to pay to see you in a movie so right that's a big thing too so yeah you might have been successful on tv but we don't know people are going to pay to see you well i always always say this I always make this I remember because I play hockey with Jerry brookheimer yeah I play in this who produced who created Lucifer great lucifer so and I'm always like Jerry do you think one of your movies just one listen do you think

one of your movies like Pirates of the Caribbean if I was a eighth pirate to the left yeah who had five irs right do you think your movie's gonna make any less because I'm in it no it might make a few more dollars it's not gonna make any less right and I always fuck with them like that he goes I've offered you TV shows not good ones though he has a couple of pilots that weren't great but they didn't be picked up but lucifer's a great show yeah and jerry's a brilliant guy he knows what he's doing he's the one who told me to do stand-up early on he's really you need to do that um well who i always told you you got to do stand-up don't prepare anything just go on stage i mean because i don't know anything

because i don't know anything but i would just see you on set just go in the shit that was so hilarious that's true it seems like it would come from nowhere now the reality of going up on stage in front of 600 people or whatever it is i don't know well if you have 15 20 minutes 25 minutes and you're just winging it and there's no fluidity and there's no there's no one really connects sometimes i go off sometimes if someone like does something i go ma'am oh you don't fart ma'am women don't fart and then i'll go off on a tangent about you know why women don't fart because if they do it would clear the fucking room because they they eat these vegan gluten-free dairy-free taste-free shakes and they hold it in like a nuclear furnace right

and it's just building and build in. And the second little, just the little is the slightest, clears it, right? My ex-girlfriend used to wrap her up like a burrito in a bed because when she got comfortable and she'd go to sleep,

like the last sound of balloon would make. So I roll her up like a point of what I'm talking about. But that's why I would go off on tangents, but it's just a bad experience. Your charity, talk about your charity, no flights, no tights. What do you mean? Do you have a charity of the T-shirts you sell for?

Oh, yeah. That was a... Jesus. I just said charity. Patrick welling the eighth yeah we did that to uh to benefit st jude's uh there was a company just said hey you know that we can do this and um and i was like no i don't do stuff like that you know i've never done and they were like it's for kids it's like think about it this way and so and that was another situation where it was like you know get over yourself yeah you know what i mean like

come on dude right i feel like i mean i just talk to you for hours about the shit that like this is i would i would hope this is an easy conversation if i don't know what you're going to talk Like, was it Jim Courier you have come? No, Jimmy Connors. Jimmy Connors. Yeah, I'm nervous about that one. That's next. Like, what's your plan?

Well, you know what? My plan is to just say, Jimmy, I just remember you when I was a kid and you were a badass and you had great legs. And I just remember your legs were great. I'm not gay, but really great legs. And you were just a guy who didn't take any shit. And I met your daughter at a Lakers game and we just hit it off. We were just friends.

I did not sleep with her. We were just cool. And we just started talking. And she said, my dad's Jimmy Conner. honors. And I go, would he be on my podcast? She's like, fuck yeah. So when he comes, I'm going to literally tell him that. And then be like, what's up? And then just start talking. And I know things about him. I know. So, and I bought a racket for him to send, you know, me with autographs. I have like, Steve Martin, the jerk autograph. People think Dak Shepard was on. He's like,

why do you get autographs? I'm like, I don't know, man, because I always think I'm never going to work with him again. And I haven't. So I was right. Yeah, I mean, I, I, I don't really get it. I mean, you know, if anyone's ever seen your, your, your room in there, it's pretty incredible, but, you know, when I worked, I mean, there you go. Look at that. I buy toys. This is an original Superman lunchbox. Yeah. I had, uh, the helmet that I had in that movie, um, draft day. Right. Uh, I had, I had, I had Kevin Costner sign it. So I have that. That was pretty cool. I like that. Do you have any toys? No. You know I have these toys, right? Yeah. I know. That's the Clark Kent. This is, uh, this kind of looks like you. This has, looks nothing like me.

My friend Matt once stuck this up his ass. Not this one. I wouldn't have this. one. But he... This one? He wouldn't let my... Yeah, that one. No, he wouldn't let me... He didn't want my head to get any bigger

when I first got a big hit show. So there was a party at my house and I came out and everybody was laughing and Tom was in the... Matt Ballard was in the middle and this was shoved up his ass, just the head. And... Was it walking around?

It just brought me down to Earth. Yeah, he was walking around. Hey, look, I'm Michael Rosebaum. I'm Lex Luther with a doll in his ass. And I really appreciated that. So, this looks nothing like me. It really does.

And this was us. Look at this. What is it? That's our first Smallville picture ever. That was, why am I wearing a leather jacket in front of a cornfield in 180-degree weather? You know what is the irony of these pictures is, why would all these characters be in the same place at the same time? I know, it just looks so weird. Like, why? But the reality is it's not, it's just.

It's just, these are the characters in small-ville. But we all. all look like fuck you we don't we don't want to be there uh you know there was no one look i'd say what no one no character looks happy here this looks like dramatic show no this was an 18 hour day and then we're doing a photo shoot uh and why is my head so white oh god i had so many problems with my head i remember dude remember that mask i wore and they'd spray paint my head and like just so i couldn't let's luther's not supposed to have any like um hairline and i remember one time i'm wearing this darth vader mask so because she's spraying this makeup on me and this air purifier was in there yeah

and I'm sitting there and it's five in the morning and there's just that hot, that hot guest star that we don't remember the name of, the blonde that we telekinetically, telekinesis league, telepathically, telepathically, Rob, fuck, make me smarter. Yeah, telepathically is the correct word. Thank you, fuck.

Two right questions today, answers. So, and she's, I'm looking in the mirror miserable. I'm like, oh, my God, just like, I'm going to die something. I'm going to inhale stuff. I'm going to be like those old actors who inhaled shit. Oh, yeah. And I just, I all son. Bustis and shit.

Yes, spasus. I'm looking through the mirror and I see her reflection, this beautiful, young girl, legal. I don't want to sound like shit on. I'm a creed. And I'm just, like, sitting there with my mask on. I take my mask off. And I just remember looking at her at like five of the morning going, I'm cuter with hair. And then back to the mask.

Yeah, because you couldn't read that stuff. Yeah. What are you going to do? A few little questions from fans. I mean, I just said I'd ask him, Fatima. What is the At Fruit Punch Tank? Man, what is one question you will never answer? I don't know what the...

That one. This one. Thank you. Do you believe there are aliens among us, Tom? Sure. Good. Define a friend. What makes a friend in an enemy? Support. I think a friend is just somebody there who, you know, just kind of gets you and just there for you. Do you believe that the reason Lex Luther became bad was because Clark lied to him the whole fucking friendship and it's his fault?

Yes. Awesome. I believe the same thing. I always thought that Lex was the real hero. I mean, people just didn't understand really what he was. You know, he was just trying to help people. He was. That's all he was doing. What's your Instagram?

Is it just Tom Welling? I think it is, yeah. It's very simple. Yeah. Yeah. I got the little blue dot thing on it. Are you excited about life? Yeah.

Yeah. You enjoy life? Yeah. Your girlfriend, she's great. Yeah. It's great. I'm having more. I'm having more fun now.

I think. with life than probably ever before. If people come up to you and say, can I get a picture? How do you feel? Fine. What if you're eating? I didn't used to, but.

Yeah. Now, I just, I think it took me a while to understand that it's not about me. First of all, it was like, why would you want your picture with me? Like,

I don't get it. Right. You know, I don't get it. Because you're handsome and you're a superstar. But I never wanted my picture with anybody. So like, but when I realized it's not about me,

it's about them and, you know, do you ever do this? Sometimes I'm out with like my friends, like one of my friends of John Heater or Dack Shepard, you know, friends that are, you know, and, you know, I'll be with them and we'll go, and someone will recognize them and go,

can I get a picture and I'll hold a camera? Do you ever think like me when they do that to you, do you think, gosh, hey, I was somebody too. Do you ever do that? I'm like, why don't they want my picture? No, I've been out with friends who've been recognized and I've not, and I'm like, yes. Oh, you like?

I'm like, no, I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. Is there anything you want to ask me? I have a cold, by the way, if you sound like shit. No, I mean. You know, you know, I'm an open book. I know. I mean, I'm just not that interested, I guess.

You ever smoked pot? I have. Yeah, do you like it? Yeah. It's one of those things where like, I'm not, I don't know if I'm good at it, you know, kind of like, I'm not, you know, I'm not, you know, not to. I love you're good at smoking pot. You know, like it's good at it. I mean, it's like, I just got to make sure it's the right. My friend Carl McDowell. I only smoke his weed. Otherwise I'll jump off a roof. Really? I want to be chill. I got to be chill. One hit. Just take one hit. You know. How many beers before you're drunk? Bears. 12? I mean Jesus. Yeah. You're an alcoholic. How much... Why is I made you an alcoholic? Well, I could probably drink four and I'm hammered.

Oh. It's just body weight, though. I'm smaller than you. How much... One thing we didn't touch on was like on 10 years of small, though. You always had to be in great shape. You always had to work out. I remember one season you came in a little fat.

Yeah. Because you were like, fuck off. That was the... I'm not working out. And I remember the producers go, dude, you're Superman. It's your image on TV. You got to do it. And finally, you're like, turned it around.

But I can understand that, like, I'm not going to... do this. And then we just somehow, I hate working out. I had like a summer of gluttony where I was just like, you know what? I'm going to do. I was like such a baby. I'm going to eat everything. I'm going to do whatever. If I want to wake up and have a beer, I'm going to do that. I'm going to you're a brat. I was a fucking brat and I was just away for two months from the show. You were tired. And I was tired. But I was also going to the gym and working out. So I just got like thick as fuck. But then once I got back to the show and we started working and I wasn't drinking and doing all that stupid shit. In like three weeks. I lost like 15 pounds or whatever it was. Yeah, you'd lose it pretty easily. Because it was like I wasn't having the intake. Would you ever go to any conventions and sign autographs? Because every time I go there, I go to sign autographs a couple times a year. I go to some conventions and you're the only picture I never see signed.

I've never done one. So I bet your autographs worth quite a bit of money. You know, I'd be interested to know how much it would. In the past, I don't think I've ever been open to it. I'm starting to open up to the idea of it because... If they do it the right way, look. Everybody does it. And here's why I think conventions can be great, because a lot of people will say, well, you know, you're signing autographs, you're paying money to do this and you're charging people.

Here's the reality. I was a nerd. Like, I used to go to horror movie conventions and get autographs from people. And I'd pay and make my weekend. And it was fun to go to horror fest in New Jersey. So some of these people, it's not like you're taking a trip to the Bahamas. For them, it is a trip to the Bahamas. They want to go meet their, the people that they love, the people that, and they want to get a chance to meet them and get an autograph.

And it means the world to them. So it's like double. It's like we both benefit. It's like, I get to go to Dublin next week, you know, and they get to come out. We all get to hang out, whatever. And look, Benedict Cumberbatch, ex-Benned at Cumberbatch was just there signing autographs. Yeah, it's becoming, you know, when we were on the show, it was frowned upon. Right, right.

What people did when they couldn't work. Now, dude, everybody does it. I just, I think it's one of those things where, you know, you go for a weekend, you do a Q&A, people love it, they eat it up. You talk to your fans. It's like a connection. You know, it's like, so, all right, so that's a maybe. That's what you're open to you. Yeah.

I mean, we should probably talk about it because you've done them. I've never, I've never done one. I've got a woman who I don't know what it is. She's just awesome because she doesn't take any shit and she does it the right way and she's really respected. And she said, if you ever wanted to, if you ever want to think, I'm sure they could do something where I mean, Benedict Cumberbatch came in for like one, you know who he has. They came in for one day. You know, one day, I think Val Kilmer. Like, everybody does it.

You're right. Everybody does it. So it's, you know, it's like when Instagram and all that stuff came in social media, it was like, you know, nobody wanted to do it and now you have to do it like if you don't do it people get mad at you yeah i think though if i wasn't an actor and i was just like i'm retiring which could be any moment um i probably wouldn't do social media i think i think it's fun because it's a connection with your fans and your friends and all these things but it is it's a lot of work you mind me just you know what i watched you the day one of my favorite movies of all the time

weird science you just remember me a chat right there hey what does he say what's the Lickweed. Yeah. Remember the car? It's like, he don't even have a license, Lisa. He's an asshole. Anybody with a hair cut like that's got to be.

Look at his hair, Lisa. I mean, come on. Even with a haircut like that. Because they just got back from the bar where he's like, getting all drunk. Oh, man. We used to do impressions, too. I think that's what, like, the best thing about it is like you and I would just do

dueling Christopher Walkins. We'd get up there. And I'd even say my lines in. And then you go, laughs. Yeah. So, Alex. It was great. What are you doing?

That's Lana. It was fun. It was like, it's great clock. And then the director's like, guys, we got to get through this day. Yeah. But we had so much. We did the can of Reeves. Whoa.

And every day was just like, you know, the hard days, those long days. It's like that's the only thing that got you through it. You got to have fun. I remember that one, there was one time, I don't, I forget, I think Marzie was directing and Glenn was the DP and it was late. And you and I just started fucking laugh. It was like three o'clock in the morning. We were exhausted.

And we just started laughing. Maybe we couldn't stop. Yeah. And Glenn just came in. He's like, you guys, what are you doing? We're like, we can't stop laughing. Like, we were losing our minds, literally. And then, like, five minutes went by and we kind of came back.

But you kind of go a little crazy. You do go a little crazy. Did you miss me when I left season seven? Honestly, don't lie. Don't lie. No, I did. I did. Well, because it was always fun.

I always had such a good time when you came in. And it was just, you know, you always different. That character was very different. You know, I got to do things with your character that I didn't get to do with everybody else. yeah um we complimented each other yeah and like you know you're a fantastic actor and i learned a lot from you because i had one i had to because i didn't know what the fuck i was doing well you were 22 dude but i would see you do things i'd be like oh i didn't know you could do that like i saw what you did with that line and stuff like that sort of do whatever the hell you want yeah it's like

i saw that as you as the series went on as you started to just do what the fuck you want and you and you didn't care about like direction someone said that uh yeah i don't think that's right and then you But you were like, constructively, and you would just, all of a sudden, I saw you grow. You just grew. You just was like, wow, now he's directing. Now he's, you just became, it's all, you know, you committed to it, which was awesome. Well, you know, I had a, Rob, do you have anything last? By the way, he never seen this fucking show.

Yeah, I don't watch Smallville. Well, you could. Sorry. Wow. You're like the producer, engineer of inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. You don't even know what the fuck I do. I think it's helpful, though. Do you ever see the episode, an entourage where they go to look at this house?

And the realtor, as Vince walks in, the realtor goes, yeah, and I just sold a house down the street to that actor from Smallville. Really? And Vince goes, cool, where's Smallville? That's great. Somebody just showed me that the other day. That's great. I like that. Anyway.

Well, look, man, this has been a fucking, it's awesome. I mean, I can talk to you forever. I mean, this is just effortless. I didn't need any notes. I love seeing you. I hope you and your lady will invite me to go do things. You invited me at the Houdini house for your birthday. she surprised you yeah uh look tom is a super guy i've been buddies for a long time check him out on

instagram i don't know what else to say other than thank you for allowing me to be inside you today and i appreciate it it was you appreciated me inside you i really appreciate you inside of me it just felt like home didn't it Hi, I'm Joe Saul-Chii, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here.

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