Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Ep 16: Katherine McNamara

Episode Date: July 24, 2018

Katherine McNamara (Shadowhunters, Maze Runner, Monsterville) discusses graduating high school at fourteen years old, the moment she knew she wanted to do with her life (hint: it’s acting), and how she likes to make up curse words. Katherine talks about what it was like to work alongside Angela Lansbury and Catherine Zeta-Jones, how scotch makes her feisty and Irish, and we bond over her love of horror films. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Rob and I were in a conversation. I just want to say thanks to Hinton Water for giving me free shit. Hey, we got a great guest today. Catherine McNamara, Shadowhunters, Maze Runner. She's a talented actress. She's beautiful. Rob, did you enjoy her? Yeah, she was great.

How do you know, Catherine? Isaiah Mustafa, who is now in the sequel to It, and he and I, he played T in my movie that I directed back in the day. Yeah, and he was the old Spice guy. He, uh, I went to the premiere for Shadowhunters. And, uh, I met her and she was really kind. And, uh, when she was, uh, on our summer break, which is a very long summer break now. Uh, infinite summer break.

Yeah. Her show got canceled, unfortunately. Uh, and that happens. I've had that happened quite a few times in my life. Yeah, but this interview was before that happened. Yeah. Then we don't talk about it. But it's still I feel bad for it.

Yeah. But she's pretty, uh, she's pretty interesting. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money, period. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. This is just a wonderful app. There's a lot of apps out there that really, you know, you have to do this and pay for and that.

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365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. Let's get into Catherine McNamara. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You. You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Are you sure you're comfortable? You want to move some pillows over there, so you have some... I'm going to just get yourself comfortable.

I'm getting situated. I'm like a cat. I have to, you know... You're like a cat. I'm like a cat and my name is cat, so I have to kind of, you know, nest a little bit. I unfortunately, I gave Rob. a mic because i want yeah well i wanted him to be involved in the show right at first you know i didn't think

he was that funny in fact i think that's what you'll gather well sometimes i'm not that funny so i think you'll have to probably carry the the heavy lifting well it's not you know this show isn't about being funny it's about being real i see your your uh your your publisher charlene yeah she's here she is i don't think anyone's brought their um their publicist yet really but maybe after some people have heard about the podcast. Michael Jervase brought his bodyguard. Michael Jervase hasn't aired yet and no one knows who he is right now.

This is how good of a producer he is. He just gave me the phone to type in my password while I'm interviewing you. That's nice. You know, I think everyone having a mic is a good idea because instead of being, you know, the nameless, faceless shadows in the corner, everyone can have a voice.

Are you saying we should give your published Charlene? I can't say publicist Shirley. Publissist Charlene. Yeah, it's hard to say. We have a lot of words in the show that are hard to say too. We have a few phrases. What are those?

Lilith is extremely hard to say. Lilith. She was our big bad villain this season. And so you'll be going along, saying a line, really feeling the rhythm, and then you get to the word lilith. And there's so many consonants and bowels and lulls, like all put together in a little tiny word. It just takes so much. Right now, everyone listening is saying Lilith.

It's true. And Downworlders is the other one. Downworlders. Downworlders. Downworlders. And I don't know if it's just me because I have a slight Midwestern accent. and I carry my R's a little too heavily. Kansas City, yeah.

Other side. Close. Close enough. Three hours on the, you know, on the freeway. But it's a lot of R's in one word as well in W's, and it just gets all muffled. Catherine McNamara, aka Cat. Yes. You like to be called Cat. It just kind of happened.

You know, growing up I was always Catherine, and then I moved to New York and ended up doing a show with three other Catherine. So I was automatically given the nickname of Katie Mac, just by no choice of my own. when I was sat down by one of the other actors. And they said, you are now Katie Mac because there's too many Catharines here. And then I moved to L.A. And somebody went, no, I don't like Katie. I'm going to call you Cat. And then I was just Cat from that point forward.

I think I'd probably, since those are your nicknames, like my nickname's Rosie. I like that. Thank you. Well, let's think of new nicknames for each other. Okay. Instead of Katie Mac or. KMack is fairly new. Not many people.

KMack? KMack? I've only had like one person called me KMack. KMack. see i'm already original rob yeah but like i was saying about rob he kind of adds something to the show he's a big shadow hunter's fan hey no he's not no okay he's never seen it not a shadow well he's okay right but he's that's not his job as a producer is it to watch the show i don't think he's never seen smallville he's never seen most of the shit i've been in

not smallville i saw guardians of the galaxy yeah but i was unrecognizable i have a i had a the CGI face. But how cool is that that you had a CGI face? Well, you know, for the most part, I think most people would think that's a really cool thing to be just in the movie. And I feel that way, too. But I was hoping you'd see my face. Well, yeah.

I mean, if somebody said, hey, Cat, we want you to be in this movie, but you're, we don't want to see your face. If it was Guardian of the Galaxy, I'd say hell yes. Great. Have you ever been CGIed? I have not, not my own person. I've done animation before, but not based off of my appearance. Well, I think because you're a beautiful-looking person.

You're a rare specimen, like a human being. Like you, I think you have natural good looks, whereas me, I'm not, I'm going to take off my glasses. I look a little older with my glasses, so I'm going to take. Look, all I'm saying is, you know, some people are born with things. I was born with a sense of humor, as were you. I was. But you were born with other things like looks. Oh, thank you.

And brains. You've got two out of three. I'm super nerdy. But that's a good, I think that's a good thing. Yeah, well, I did some research on you, and I didn't spend too much time on it because I like this to be sort of open and free and go where it will. And I don't want to upset Charlene, but I might. I doubt it. But you are sort of a prodigy.

You're sort of a, you know, and I looked at what you were doing at 14 years old. You had graduated high school, and I was going into high school. I barely got out of high school. And I graduated five years out of Western Kentucky University where you had to have a two point. to get in. And I wouldn't consider myself book smart by any means. I'm witty, occasionally. But then I see you graduated college at 17.

That's when I was just finishing high school. You were finishing college. Is this true? It is very true. I don't know how that's possible. You're like a fucking doogie houser? I don't know how it's possible either, other than the fact that I was in high school and my guidance counselor said to me, you know, after this semester, you're done.

I went, wait, what? I don't want to stop learning at 14, but I had a preschool teacher actually who saw that I had this kind of veracity for learning and this voracious hunger for... Veracity. It's a good word. It's a big word. Thank you. Thank you very much. But she saw this in me and she was able to foster that. And so I kind of owe it all to her because she made me love learning. And it was framed in the point of view of discovery and something fun and something new to explore and not a chore to be done. For you to graduate high school at 14 means that you found every subject to be fun. Well, not every subject, but I gained a sense of discipline through that. And so it became something that I just did and something that I did well and very quickly. And it just, it worked for me. You have a great memory, don't you?

I do. See, I always found, like, Kristen Bell was just on the show. Oh, cool. And we talked about her and she's got an amazing memory. Her flaw, I wouldn't say flaw, but. What would you call it? Something that she doesn't have is she lacks a memory for events in her life. Like she doesn't remember like barbecues and like fun things, but she remembers her lines and can read something and go, yeah, I got it.

Are you one of those people that piss me off where you look at your lines once and you got it and you don't have to worry about it and go have dinner at Nobu or whatever the hell you're going? For me, it's a muscle. So when I'm working like at this point, having just rap season three, I can look at something once or twice and I can look at something once or twice. and know it. But in a couple months, when I maybe haven't been doing lines, it'll take me a few more times. So, for example, when I start the season, it takes me longer to memorize my lines than when I finish the season. But by the end of the season, we get things thrown at us so quickly and we get revisions all the time. And so it's constantly, like, picking up new dialogue.

Well, send me back to Kansas City because your parents, for some, look, I always wonder where were Dugie Hauser's parents strict with Dugie? Do you remember that show? I do remember that show. My parents didn't have to be strict because I was such a disciplined child myself. Why were you so disciplined? Where does that come from? I don't know. I think I was just born that.

With things you're born with, I was born with a stubborn sense of discipline. My mom always calls me a zebra because things have always been black and white for me. And it's very funny. I've had to learn as I get older that life is never black or white. It's all in shades of gray. Well, you're talking to a colorblind person. I'm not shitting you.

If you look at me, my assistant Jess, who's upstairs, just came downstairs and goes, wow, those socks are loud? Do you think these are this loud? Okay, you're talking to someone who, when I'm not wearing these shoes, I always wear loud socks. So I actually quite like your socks. Do you? I take notice when people wear fun socks because it's something that I do. But I think you're color coordinated, though.

Sometimes. Listen, when I wear leather and jeans and combat boots all day long, sometimes I want to have pink unicorns on my socks. And sometimes that doesn't match at all, but I do it anyway. Okay. I like that. Are you a natural redhead? That's your color of choice? I am, for the most part.

I'm kind of strawberry blonde, so I fluctuate between kind of every... What's your favorite color? For your hair? For my hair? I was going to say, is this a different kind of question? No.

I'm guessing red. Dark red. No, it actually falls somewhere in between. I like my natural color most, which is sort of a... It's a strawberry blonde, basically. It's sort of as strawberry as blonde can get. Just because it feels like me,

but I love to change it for work. It's always fun. I'm one of those people. I'll never change my hair drastically on my own because I get too afraid to. On your own. What do you mean? Like you're going to dye your own hair? Well, no, like if it's not for a job.

But if it's for a job, I'll do pretty much anything. You'll do anything. But if it's like you won't take too many risks when you're on your, you know, a break. Exactly. Right. Yeah. So your parents weren't strict on you. They didn't have to be because you had sort of a propensity.

Yes. Look at that. Big word there. Big word's happening today. You hear that, Charlene. I've got some words. I took word power, my senior year in high school. I was five years older than Catherine here.

K. Mack, when she learned that word, propensity. You ever use that word? I do occasionally. It's not a bad word. It's a great word. Yeah, but what was they saying? That my parents did not have to be strict because I had a propensity for... See, that memory?

I couldn't remember something I did. A propensity for just educating yourself, for a thirst for learning. Now, that's very difficult. It's difficult to do that. I didn't have that thirst. I had a thirst for playing Kaliko Vision or Intellivision. These are things that were before you were born. They were like Atari.

Oh, cool, yeah. Yeah, they were way before you. Oh, cool. But I would play that. And I'm not saying that a condescending way, but I realize that you're probably our youngest guests that I've had here. Really? And I didn't know you were that young because, first of all,

well, it says it in Wikipedia. I'm not giving anything away. No. And do you regret putting it on Wikipedia? Because a lot of friends of mine, guys and girls don't want to put their age out there because, you know. You know, I didn't really have a choice. It just kind of happened.

And I looked at Wikipedia one day and went, oh, my age is there. Cool. But I don't mind. I'm one of those people that it is what it is. And I'm always going to be the age that I am and that's never going to change. So why try and hide it? Why try and, you know, I always look at women like Helen Mirren who have been in this industry forever and everybody knows. And what you see is what you get.

Exactly. And she's amazing. Yeah. See, when you're amazing, it doesn't really matter. But I have a lot of friends who, you know, they even go on those dating. apps. I have a friend Shiarra. I just made up her name. It's close to that, but I'm not going to say her name in case anybody knows her. Cool. She, uh, I, you know, I was on a dating app and I saw her picture come up. And I, you know, obviously said yes, so I could mess with her. Of course. Oh, what are you

up to you up to later? You know what I'm saying? It's like, mess around with your friends. And that's what you have to do if you run into a friend on a dating app, right? Yeah, but she said she's 31 and like, you're not 31. You're the, Rob's married. He's 28. He's got a child. And, uh, I don't know. He's never been on a dating app. Congratulations for having your life together, by the way. Thank you. Right? Yeah, I've never been on a dating app.

Because you've been with Natalie for a long time. Yeah, we started dating eight years ago. The good thing about something like that is your 28, you've been dating eight years. You probably have no venereal disease. I hope not. No, it sounds like you've got your shit together. Rob got pretty good grades, but he was a depressed child or his mother thought he was depressed, right, Rob? Yeah, that's true.

And she put you on antidepressants? For like a short period Was I supposed to say anything about that? That's fine Okay You seem like a happy joyful person That was one of my fears of the show It's not that I

I try to get people on the show Who have dark pasts Who have things wrong with them Or suffer from things I think we're human We all suffer from things But when I saw I read about you And I was like

I text one of your cast members He's a good friend of mine I think you know who he is I do indeed One of my favorite human beings on the planet. Who is he? Isaiah Mustafa. Right.

How great is he? Just the best. And what a body. I know. Great, great body. Truly. So he's kind of the, the fitness inspiration, I think, for all of us on the show. Because he has such a standard.

And then the rest of us just are kind of like, well, we're never going to live up to that, but we can try. I said, I'm interviewing Catherine McNamara today. Any dirt? Anything funny? Who's the prankster? cat is a seasoned professional i have no dirt clean as they come oh wow my response farts was hoping to have a little more dirt growing up was there any sort of like did you experience anything as a child like uh anything i mean it sounds like usually when a child

excels when they do well it's because their parents are doing something right there or they you know, they don't have an imbalance chemically or something. Did you have any sort of like, was it all daisies and? No, of course not. And I don't think anyone's childhood is. Rob's was. And well, congratulations, Rob. Yeah, perfect.

But, uh, mom put in my head of residence. I'm not depressed. No, look, there are, of course, there's, there's always dark things. And, and the whole point is to get through them and to move on from them and to handle them in a healthy way. And I was lucky enough to be surrounded by, like, my mom. and my grandparents are the best people in the world and they're my heroes and they've been there for me through thick and thin and they're kind of my examples they handle everything with

positivity and with joy and with laughter and that's how I learned to deal with things and there was a certain point in my life where I just decided that in the grand scheme of things most problems in life are very small and it's not worth kind of dwelling on that if there's a silver lining and I a lot of friends that get annoyed with me because when things go wrong, I always find the silver lighting. And I always go, well, hey, it's not so bad because you can look at it this way. Catherine, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you today. No, this is, you know, what's funny is, I'm sitting here listening to what you just said. And the basics, the fundamentals of, like, happiness, you just expressed in terms of, like, things that I'm 45 and I'm still

learning like and i think a lot of people out there like it's always the quest for the same shit how can i be happy how can i be um how can i have um focus how can i have a purpose in life and again it starts at a young age but when you have mentors like your grandmother and your mother and people around you who are positive about things that's fucking helpful it is do you do you swear by the way i do actually i didn't before season one of shadow hunters but when i'm surrounded by five big brothers I am what word won't you say well I'm not gonna say it what word what's your favorite curse word uh ooh I like to make up curse words sometimes well that's not a curse word I mean it is to me it depends on your inflection what what is your uh I say holy smolaka a lot

holy smolaka yeah just because of charlie just smiled she's trying to multitask but you made her smile on that one. Holy smilaka. Yeah. Um, okay. Do you say shit a lot? I do. Do you ever F up a line and go shit? Oh yeah. It happened. Do you ever throw an F bomb around? On occasion. You're a lady. Yeah. You don't, you're classy. I try. You don't throw F bombs away. You probably have never said the C word in your life. No. That's a bad word. But in England, I hear my friends always use it. Yeah. Like in most situations, it doesn't offend me. But I think it's mostly because I have a lot of English friends. And I just let me stay hearing you at all the time. Inside you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because

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Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together, we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform.

Remember, were your parents, you know, were they just supportive of you all the time? Were they ever like, hey, you've got to do this. You've got to study. Were you disciplined as a child? Did you need it? Well, yeah. I mean, I think every kid learns at some point. I just happen to learn very quickly how to manage my time.

And I think it's mostly a product of the fact that I got kicked out of school in first grade. And so. Wait a minute. Hang on. We just found something. Rob, mark that on the notes. There's dirt. kicked out of a first grade.

Yeah. Can I guess what you did? Just guess. You probably pushed a girl down and hurt her. I did not, actually. A boy, you pushed him down. No. No.

You cheated. No. I did lose my recess once for talking, but it's because they gave me the business section of the paper, and they told us to highlight the letters of our name, and I started reading the articles to the kids around me. So that's, you know. I'm surprised you to get beat up for that. I know, I'm such a rebel.

It's very condescending. Such a rebel. But why did you get kicked out of first grade? I got kicked out of first grade because of this preschool teacher who, like, fostered this, you know, love of learning. And I ended up learning very quickly. And so they, the school couldn't accommodate the things that I needed without moving me up too far socially. So I went to school part time for, like, recess and special classes and lunch and art and music and all the fun stuff. And then I did all of my academics at home through a correspondence program.

So I was able to kind of have the best of both worlds and do academically what I needed at home and then socially what I needed at the school. KMAC. Yeah. I thought we were going to get into something like really provocative here. I'm sorry. First grade I was kicked out. You weren't kicked out. You were advanced.

You were. Yeah. Is Rob, is that what you're hearing? Yeah. What were you doing in first grade, Rob? I was farting on Meredith Kramer and getting smacked in the back for doing it. I was learning too. Did you ever get kicked out?

out of school? No. Did you ever get demerits? We had to sit on the stage during the lunch. That was, that was, like, fun. Why is there a stage at lunch? It was in the cafeteria. There was a stage.

Or if you were at recess, you had to stand on the wall. Stand on the wall. Yeah. I remember those days. Did you stay out of the wall? I think both of them happened once. Were you mortified? No.

What did you do? Just stand there all. He gets, what I've noticed about Rob is it gets extremely red-faced when he's embarrassed. So I bet you're all just red-faced. Your hair parted perfectly, like Pee Wee Herman. I had a bowl cut then. He had a bowl cut. Wow. Did you get girls back in the day? I was really short, so not, not. That was really short. Like junior high a little bit. Yeah, me too. I was super short. You were super short? I was still super short, but, you know. How tall are you? I'm 5'5. That's a good height for a woman. Thank you. I guess I feel short because I'm around

tall people often. Well, yeah, look at your co-stars. They're all pretty tall, right? Yeah, most of them are, like, a foot taller than me. What? I mean, you're excelling in school. You're getting all these grades. You're graduating early.

You got into acting like young, too. Ish, yeah. Was it your call? Was it your idea? I fell into it backwards, kind of, pretty much literally fell into it backwards. I was a dancer as a kid, and I wanted to go into economics. That was like my dream was to be a financial advisor.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, stop. How old are you when you want to be in economics? About 10? I can't even say it right. I said economics. I can't even say the word economics. And you wanted to get into it at 10. Yeah.

What do you learn in economics that is a 10-year-old? Supply and demand? Basically. Well, my grandfather started talking to me about it at a very young age, and I got really into it because I was a huge math nerd. I loved math. Eight times seven. 56.

Yeah, there go. Rob, that wasn't for you. Don't start bragging. She's not going to all of a sudden think. Rob, Rob's coming back. 56. But, yeah, you probably did calculus in high school. Yeah, I did. I took math as electives in high school and college. I was more into statistics than calculus, which is kind of where economics came in.

Never took those courses. Oh, so fun. Never. I couldn't do it. Trigonometry is like, oh, so fun. I could do that all time. Trigonometry. I did take trigonometry and I got a D because I cheated off Robin Moore. Well, what did you do that for? Because I'm just not a smart guy. Here's what it is. I have attention deficit disorder, which I think a lot of people now claim they have because it just gives it as an excuse. But I think if you know me, like right now, you're probably saying, yeah, I believe that. Maybe. I don't know. I feel like I need to get to know you a little better before I make that. Yeah, I appreciate that. I'll take that as a compliment. But I think that I just couldn't focus. And I wish my parents would have given me something to help me because I just could not focus on anything. I was like a fruit fly. I was just all over the place. And my grades suffered and I was like, you know, getting Cs, some bees. And when I was really interested, here was the thing. When I really like something, I did excel in it. But those were few and far between. You excelled in everything because you had discipline, you had positivity around the house, right? I'm just a big old nerd, to be honest. Are you really?

I am. Do you date nerds? Yeah, I have. You have dated nerds? Yeah. Are you sort of like, do you like dating people with problems so you could fix them? I try and avoid that. You want to do healthy people.

Yeah. I feel like that's a healthy choice. Like if someone you were dating had mommy issues or daddy issues, would you steer clear Is that a red flag? Well, if I was already dating them, you know, you'd care about the person, so you deal with it. So in other words, you want the person to lie to you. No. Until you gets to a certain.

Oh, by the way, you're later right before you're marrying them. Oh, by the way, I've got to say. No, if something happens to come up, then you, you handle it. You don't just drop something that you care about just because there's a problem. I just, I'm at a loss for words because you're, that's a genuinely beautiful comment to say. And that's really what life's about because I think people already, oh, are always scared of, you know, commitment. I've been scared in the past.

Now I'm not as scared. But, you know, commitment's a big thing in your mind if you think, you know, I'm going to be with some forever. And are they going to leave me when I'm old and shitting my pants or next week when I shit my pants? What's going to happen? Rob, do you ever feel like that? Do you ever feel like Natalie's going to dump you when you dump on her? No, we have a baby. So that's kind of like you can't.

But what do you feel about that, Kay Mack? I think, honestly, it depends. on the situation, to be fair. But I think it's always scary, especially when you are making a big life decision. But I think it's supposed to be. I think if it's not scary, then it's, then there is a problem. And you're not thinking about it realistically. And you're a positive person, always, as we know.

So, all right, go back on acting. You're dancing. You're doing all these things. What kind of tap dancing? Mostly ballet at that point. I just started to get into kind of everything. And I ended up running into a friend who was directed, a family friend from, you know, my childhood that was directing a my younger childhood that was directing a community theater show

and needed a dancer and I was the kid who would try anything once so I was like well sure I'll you know I'll try theater yeah true try any activity once I'll put it that way like I did everything from softball the science camp and just said you know why not and fell in love with it and it sounds so corny but I'll never forget the moment I stepped on stage on opening night for the first time something hit me like a brick wall and I just had to this moment of clarity where I went, wait a minute, this is what I was put on this earth to do. At 13? 10? I was, I was like 12-ish. I don't think that. 12? You knew what you wanted to do with your life. I'm 45. I'm figuring this out. Charlene,

do you know what you want to do? Do you want to be a publicist your whole life? No, you don't. You're good at it. You like helping someone who's so positive in Catherine, but you don't want to do it. Rob, you don't want to produce this show forever. He's fucking asshole. You got me to do this and you're not leaving. Back to you, Catherine. Uh-huh. You fell in love at 12 years old. You liked the, what was it? Was it the instant gratification, the feeling of performing in front of people, pleasing them?

It was a little bit of everything. I think it was the energy of having the live audience there and sort of the thrill of being a part of creating a story and of doing something that brings people joy and just kind of being a part of something where everyone's being creative and everyone's passionate, doing. what they love, and that comes together and create something larger than each individual's work. Wow. And just a year or two later, you would have graduated high school. Truly. And did you tell your parents when you got home that night, when you had that moment of clarity and said, this is what I want to do with my life?

I did. And they thought this girl, who is our daughter, who is so smart, somehow just got really dumb in one sentence. I did tell them that. And they said, well, okay, let's, um, let's, you know. let's see what we can do. And I just asked them to keep helping me find auditions and helping me find things. And every couple of weeks, my mom would be driving me to rehearsal or driving me somewhere and go.

So are you still having fun with this acting thing? How about that economics? Is this something you still want to do? And I said, yeah. And she's like, all right. As long as you, you know, you still go to school and you still keep getting an education and you get a degree in something, that's fine. I bet it rarely happens, but I think your biggest fear from just knowing you, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree, but this can be a therapy session, but I'm going to

throw it at you. I bet. See, my parents, I've disappointed them. They've disappointed me, ad nauseum. But I feel that that's something that would hurt you. If you ever let them down, that would be the most catastrophic thing that could happen to you. It definitely was as a kid, and I think it definitely still is. But I think, I don't know, if I had to quantify it, I think my biggest fear is ceasing to learn and ceasing to grow as an artist and as a human being. And I think stagnance is probably my biggest fear. Stagnance. Yeah. Stagnance is a good word. And what comes to stagnance for me is maybe my career. No, I'm kidding. No, I don't think so at all. What, that I'm kidding? No, no, not that you're kidding. But I don't think you were saying, no, your career is

stagnant. No, that's what I'm saying. I'm saying. I say the opposite. Schamanka. What the schlamak? What is it? Shlamal. What is it? Schmalaika.

Schmalaika. There you go. No, what I'm saying is when I think of stagnance, I think when something's not moving, which says the definition of stagnance. Right. Right. Stagnant. I think sometimes I choose to be stagnant.

I think stagnants can be good. I think I'm sort of equating stagnants with comfort. Comfort and rest and comfort. and not not having any responsibility and sort of just being and maybe that's more just being present and complacency and content and not stagnant but that's what came to my mind yeah but what's what's it for you it's complacency and mediocrity i think are are the citadems that i try and avoid do you okay that that makes sense now do you feel like you've been on any shows or any movies or anything that you're like, oh my God, I want this to end.

I feel like I'm not being creative. They're not writing well for me. They're not. Because look, as an act, you have to. You're shaking your head, no, but I could tell you time. I've been pretty lucky, not as of yet. I'm sure it'll happen to me at some point. But at this point, I've been really lucky.

And maybe it's just because I'm unrealistically positive. And I find a silver lining in every situation. And that's what gets me through. But at this point, I feel like I've been pretty lucky to have been excited. and motivated about any job I can think of at this point what are your jobs Michael the one who's interviewing

which ones what are my jobs what you mean which ones did you feel that way well there's always moments like I am here's the problem with me remember I told you about the ADD fruit fly yeah yeah right you have enough water hint water gives me all these waters for free they don't give me any money for saying this I love

them yeah and Paul over at hint gives me free ones and I think you know you have a way bigger following So I have a feeling I could just make a call And you can get free Hint Waters I mean, I love Hint Waters So I would be down Now, after you're saying that

Maybe I'll get a check in the mail What were we talking about? Jobs that you hated Look, like I said, the attention deficit Yeah, you know, I get bored So right when I get a series I'm thinking I forget that you're on a series And so I go, wow, that was great

We did the pilot, that was fun Michael, you're signed on for seven years I'm like, oh fuck but then I do it and I'm happy and I go through stages but there's like when I feel like I've done a role I kind of want to just like okay I did that I nailed that or I didn't whatever and I want to move on to the next one yeah so but that's not how the business is and talk about stagnance there's a certain seldom on a television show or a movie well movies different because it's sort of ephemeral right you're um it just doesn't it's short lived right it's fine yeah you know the beginning in the end and then it's over yeah but when you're on a series there's got to get times we're like oh I'm walking to the bar again you're you're going to be again with my glass of scotch. And I'm saying the same words, but a different way. And, well, I wish they could be a little more creative, but it's very difficult. That's what I mean about like going, oh, man, I wish I could play this, do this.

Well, that happens, I feel like, on every show. But I think the challenges for you to find ways to continue to make it fun and creative and to find ways to make it different. At least that's what we always try it to do. Even on Shadowhunters, we have certain scenes that happen in every episode that kind of set up the episode in certain locations where we're all around the table and we're all talking about things. And there are certain days where we're all like, okay, we're around the table again.

What are we going to do? I'm going to stand there instead of standing here this time. We're going to figure it out, whoa. But that's what we do. We always try and figure it out. And maybe it's because we've only done three seasons and we're still, you know, all young and motivated. But we try and find ways to make it fun and creative. Do you get tired?

I do, but that's what coffee's for. How often do you drink coffee? I try not to drink too much because, you know, I'm a very small person. I get that I get shaky. If I have too much caffeine But, you know, I'll have a cup of coffee in the morning You get me going, usually And then if it's a night shoot, that's a different story

Right. Do you sleep well? I do. You can, can you, are you one of those people who do, like, I have a feeling you're not the person who takes a Xanax to go to bed? No, I'm the person who hits the pillow And then you can't wake me up to save my life until I'm ready to wake up. That will change, sister. That will change because that once happened to me.

Rob, are you a good sleeper? I'm in the middle of those too I mean you have a crying baby Calvin's relatively young He sleeps pretty well though That's a cute name Yeah Calvin He's cute baby

I bet How when's your birthday November? November you're Scorpio I'm on the cusp Yeah I'm on the day That it could be either one So it's kind of a weird combination

Are you moody ever I wouldn't say moody You sleep well Yeah You only need a cup of coffee To get going Yeah. You have a great relationship with your family?

Yeah. Do you give them money? No. That's very, very good because I do. Well, I, like, yeah, like you do things for your family. You don't send them checks. Yeah. They don't ask you for money.

No. Do you see how good your parents are? A parent should never ask their child for money. Right. Regardless. Yeah. They should never. If my mother never asked me for money, our relationship would be so much better.

Michael, I need a house. okay Michael I need money Michael I'm broke again I'm in debt I need money and you see how that kind of makes it feel like advantage has been taken yeah and people some people say well it's your mother no I like my grandmother I mean I like my mother too I mean I don't I love her because I kind of have to it's like a Jewish thing okay but I don't like her I don't really like that's a human thing not just a Jewish you don't like your mother no I mean I like my mother do you love your mother yeah yeah do you love and like your mother I do yeah she's the greatest right but my grandmother blanche who's 90 has never asked me for one thing and when

i get her something she's like no stop wasting your money on me yeah that's love that's unconditional she just doesn't want she's always looking after me it is and it's wonderful but it makes it really difficult i have to say personally to like buy birthday presents or christmas presents for my mom and grandma because they're both like that i'm like but i want to do something for you and like no no no don't do anything that's a beautiful thing please do please let me i don't buy her anything for her birthday or anything. I say house out of debt 500 times. Just send her photo of the house you bought her? Yeah.

Here's a photo of the house I bought you. Here's a copy of the check that I sent you last week. These are issues that I talked about with my therapist. See, these are things like if I told you all these things, you'd be like, holy shit, man, it's a lot of stuff, right? It's like mutual therapy session right now. I like this. But you don't have, there's really, this isn't therapy for you, I don't think.

He's just dumping on you right now. Yeah, this is therapy for me. That's okay. I'm watching you and your mind. spinning like it's really an overdrive right now and I feel like if you were my therapist you could say so much but you don't want to say anything because you don't want me to feel like you're my therapist but I want you to because I feel like you know you've already got you figured it out at 22 oh I don't think I haven't figured out I think I I actually know I

don't have it figured out I mean I try and figure it out but I have to remind myself of a lot all the time what do you remind yourself all the things I've been talking about so You're not always positive. I'm in the moment that I'm not, I try and remind myself to be, and then it usually works out in my favor. Do you meditate? I've started to learn, but it's one of those things that I don't ever give myself free time when I schedule things because I don't like sitting still. So I find it hard to find the time to meditate. But I have to say, fitness has become meditative for me.

Because I never worked out before Shadowhunters. You never worked out. No, no, I was a dancer. Yeah, you always have you. So I was always active, but I never, I was never in the gym all the time. And now I am. I love it. It's my me time.

It's the time where I go and I do something good for myself. And no matter what kind of a day I'm having, I could go to the gym for 30 minutes. And I feel like a million bucks. I think I kind of get something, Rob. It just struck me. It just occurred to me. I found out what would make her unhappy. Uh-oh.

I just figured it out. Uh-oh. You have to keep busy. You have to always be. doing something or you'll maybe go a little stir crazy yeah definitely see that's the thing you can't relax katherine that's your weakness and that's a strong weakness let me tell you you're not perfect no oh god no i don't think you are i mean look you're close close to perfect but you don't know me very well yet are you well what i what i'm saying is from what i gather i i just feel like you had a great

upbringing and you're you're smart and you're level headed and your family's great but i think you've always sort of like been a workhorse, like, you know, that thirst for knowledge, that thirst of creativity. But it also has driven you to the point where Catherine can't really just do nothing. Yeah, no. I took a vacation this January for a week. For the first time in like 10 years, I took an actual vacation where I went and I did nothing and I sat on a beach for a week.

How was that? Not good. It was an interesting experience. The first three days, I couldn't sit still. And then by day three, four, five, six, I was kind of settled and I started having a really good time. And then day seven, I could not sit still. I was like, I need to do something.

I need a purpose in life. But it was perfect because I was able to settle into it, appreciate it, and then appreciate going back. Do you want to work to your 90? Yes. You want to work forever. I do. Well, okay, I had a bit of an insight into what that would be like. When I did the show in New York, I worked with Angela Lansbury and Elaine Stretch.

I was going to ask you about the end. What's her name? Somebody else, Zeta Jones. Catherine Zeta Jones. See that? But Angela and Elaine were in their 80s and 90s, respectively, when they did the show. And for me, that was so interesting to see that someone who'd been in the industry forever could still be excited about doing a show, you know, doing eight shows a week. Right.

And it was the best. And I look at them and I go, well, that's what I want to be when I'm done. Could you be with someone who isn't motivated or who just is content with doing a lot of nothing while you're so busy? I don't know. It depends. Because you can be motivated about things and still appreciate having free time to relax. And that's what I've learned from a lot of people that I'm close to. And that's what I'm trying to teach myself is to take those moments, those kind of mental health breaks where you can sit and relax your brain for a minute and still be motivated and still be busy and still accomplish things.

And maybe that's honestly what I've been doing because I'm 45 and I've been working, knock on wood, steadily since I'm, you know, There's no wood in here. Oh, yeah. Yeah, there is. Hold on a second. Rob. Ah, there we go. That's not wood.

Okay. But I've been doing it for a while. Yeah. And maybe I've just come to a point where I'm like, I feel like, I was on a series for seven years. I was another series for two years. I've done movies. I've done good and bad.

I've done all this stuff. So I got to a point where I'm like, okay, I've done a lot. 45. What's the next chapter? I called this year the year of discovery and recovery. It's like how healthy can I be? How much I want to think about? It just made me.

You gave me. a little hope because I realize you're 22, you're young, you're ambitious, you're, you want to take the world by the horns or the, by the horns. Take the bull by the horns, take the world by storm. You take the world by storm. This is why I have you here. I think you should be my partner on the show and you should just like fill words in when I need them. Sounds good. Yeah, because I think you'll find that after doing shadow hunters and then you'll, I know you'll work for a long time. I think you're really talented. Thank you. And I think that you're driven and you're really smart and you're fearless and I think you're going to have an incredible career but there will come

some moment in your life probably not soon but 15 years from now you'll say I remember doing this podcast in this dude's basement in the hills he said this time would come when I would just hit a wall and I just need to take some time for myself right and do some mindfulness and just take a step back for a second and say hey look look how much you've done this is good good job let's just give yourself a little break. Not seven days, but maybe a little more time to see what it is. Who knows? Because you do other things to you, part of an anti-bullying, right? Yeah, I do that. I work with Girl Up. I try and do what I can to give back in a sense, because I'm fortunate enough to be able to make a living doing what I love. And that happens to

give me a bit of a voice, especially now when actors on social media has become such a an influence on a lot of young people, which is kind of a scary responsibility sometimes. But I try and do some good with it. If I'm going to have a voice in the world, I want to use it for some kind of good. Yeah. I think that's really important because giving back is a lot.

People are so into themselves, you know, Rob. And I think a lot of people are. Charlene can be into herself at times. You could be in yourself. I'm in myself. Of course. And I think... It's human.

Sometimes you forget, like, there's other people out there, and there's people that need help, and there's people that need advice, and it's not all about you. And when you can sometimes give, you know, attention to something else, it makes you happier, like giving, right? Yeah. Well, and I think about it this way. You know, if everybody in the world did one nice thing for somebody else every day, there's a lot of people in the world, that would make a big difference.

That would be incredible. You know, even the littlest things can add up to be something huge. And if people do bigger things or if people work together to accomplish things, what could that do? I'm guessing you've never done a line of Coke. No. Never. No. I'm guessing you're Charlie just looked at me like, what the fuck?

I guess you don't do drugs. No. That's good. Never done them. I do like scotch, though. You like scotch? I love scotch. Now, that's a strong drink.

It is. Are you one scotch on the rocks? No, I just just, I don't know. I don't drink scotch. So I always need, like, I'm from Indiana, so we knew, Scotch and Coke. Okay. You know, that's good taste. Bourbon and Coke.

Yeah. But scotch, do you ever catch a buzz or are you someone who just like? Oh, no. Well, I'm a very small person, so it doesn't take much for me too. Are you a giggly drunk? It depends on what I drink. Like, when I drink wine, I feel like I think I'm very philosophical. What do you talk about when you're on wine?

I have no idea. You don't? You just start talking about? I just start thinking that I'm very insightful about things and I want to have deep conversation. Nietzsche once said, can I get another glass of a per se? Yeah, right? Like stuff like that. Yeah.

And then I think whenever I drink gin, I get bubbly because that's, I don't know. And then when I drink scotch, I just get feisty. Feisty? Yeah. Like, what did you do that's feisty? My gingerness comes out. Can you be a little? My Irishness comes out when I drink scotch.

Do you ever get belligerent? Oh, yeah, I'm sure. Oh, shut up! Yeah, well, okay, think about this. I was basically, I'm basically surrounded by like five big brothers all the time. And being the little sister, you got to stick up for yourself, you know? Right? Well, the five big, I'm an only child, but the five big brothers are, you know, the cast of Shadowhunters.

So it's a lot fun. When I say my five big brothers, that's what I mean. Because I remember reading you were an only child, so those are your big brothers. 100% do they is there who's the biggest prankster on shadow hunters are there any farters or any like uh well here's the thing there's a couple pranksters I mean Isaiah I'm sure you know is is a prank master

but he's he's quality over quantity when it comes to his pranks so you know when Isaiah pranks you it's gonna be good how did it get you I'm really easy when it comes to pranks because I'm I startle easily so he just jumps out from behind things but he'll like wait in the hallway after everybody's left, and then I'm the last one to leave, and he jumps

out of me after everyone else has gone by. There's several, there's several, like, video montages online. You like horror movies, though. I love horror movies. Me too, though. That's one thing we really have in common. Yeah. Because I am a diehard, horror fanatic. I read somewhere that you really loved a quiet place. Oh, my God. I enjoyed it. I think Krasinski's brilliant. I think he did an amazing job. I liked it a lot. Yeah. You loved it. I did. Well, what I loved about it is it, to me, it felt like it was going, taking a horror back to kind of the Hitchcock style where it allowed you to use your imagination more than seeing, you know, the blood and gore on screen. It let your mind kind of create however scary you wanted it to be, which I always think is much more terrifying. What are your

favorite horror movies? I love the original Carrie. Quiet Place was brilliant. Um, It Follows was one of my favorite ones. Me too. That was one of my favorite movies. I thought I was so original and creepy, the tall guy. Yeah. Oh yeah. And I love to psycho. I mean, he doesn't love psycho. When Anthony Perkins goes out in that wig at the end with a knife and he's just all crazy, that look on his face, there's nothing scarier than that moment, I think, in

cinema. That moment. The Exorcist, I love, the shining, all these movies. I like cheesy ones, too, that are a little scary, like Pet Cemetery. You should check out. I have a big list I could send you. Please do. But I'm a big horror movie. Now, we have horror movies here in my basement. My friend John Heater, who is Napoleon Dynamite. He comes

and we sit back and we watch horror movies. That's awesome. And he's like a really good dude, good husband, good father, has like four or five kids, Mormon, and just like, but he loves his disgusting horror movies. That's great. Yeah, that's what he loves. That's what movies are for. So maybe that's what it is. You're innocent, you seem innocent, you seem, you know, you're really bright, you're philosophical when you have your wine.

But then you have your scotch. Yeah. and you watch your horror movies and there's that little edge there yeah there's a little darker side of you a little bit that you're you want to be scared it's there it's there when you need it yeah can you cry like that I mean not necessarily like that but I can when I need to yeah do you have people blow glycerin in your eyes no not unless I really need to there have been there've been times where you know we're doing a scene where we're all crying for eight hours straight and you're like all right I need a little help after hours like shit after that

Don't your eyes swell up. But that's the fun, though. Why, your eyes swell up? I love scenes like that, though. And you're like, that's how our season two finale was of Shadowhunters. It was me and Dom and the brilliant Alan Van Sprang, just covered in mud. We'd all been crying for hours on end and fighting and throwing each other around and hitting the ground. We're covered in blood.

But it's one of those moments where you're like, I get to do this for a living. I get to sit in the middle of the woods and be covered in mud and just playing. Play make believe. Isn't that crazy? And get paid for it. And it's so fun just be completely immersed in a scene like that. And it's one of those moments where, you know, we spent two years kind of building up this triangle, this relationship. And it all came to fruition in that scene.

And it was just, it's one of those things that you have that magic moment where everybody clicks in and you're just in it. And we're lucky enough to have such an amazing crew that they kind of gave us the space and helped us. us to kind of create that and just kind of let us do our thing you really love i actually shot a movie called urban legend in toronto oh cool and it was a horror movie and um i loved it i think it's a great city it's amazing but that's nice that you talk about how much fun you have on the set and all this have you ever is there ever a director that comes in you're not fond of have you ever seen someone lose their shit on set because not everyone is as nice as you i think if you have an issue is it hard for you to speak up or you're pretty loud and vocal about what you don't

like it depends i'm learning to i try not to throw my weight around unless i really need to i mean ultimately i'm a business woman so that comes first and there are moments where i put my foot down and i say hey look this isn't cool or hey this is what i need or whatever but unless it's really important i'm i'm a team player first of all so you have become a you have become a business woman yeah a little 12 year old that was studying economics or 10 years old who wanted to get into economics there's a business side of you now that are you like when you negotiate things and are you a part of that Like, here's what I want. This is what I want a bigger trailer than Isaiah.

I don't care if he was the old Spice guy. Fuck him. He's a prankster. I want a bigger trailer. I want my hair colored every week. I want my nails done. I want, I want. No, not that, definitely.

But, you know, I did get a business degree. And so I am able to, like, read my own contracts and handle things from that perspective as well. I do. My attorney loves it, but also kind of has gotten used to it. it because every contract I get I'll read it over and then I'll send them 20 questions about it and they just kind of go okay I'll set a call because they were willing to teach me those things well it's that's why there's you're not going to have these horror stories about because you hear it all the time about business managers screwing over their client it's because it's a lack

of education it's an ignorance and that's what I wanted to avoid you got to avoid that and I do that like every week I'll go oh hey you know what's going on any residuals nope no you sure yeah pretty sure. This has been a real treat for me, by the way. Rob, how about you? It is. It's fun. And you've done so much work.

You've done so much, so many plays and things and you just, do you want to do Broadway again? I do. If someone said, we'll pay you as much as you get for Shadow Hunters to do Broadway for the rest of your life. Would you want to do more Broadway because you could make a better living? Because doing a lot of theater isn't a lot of money, usually. I would have to say I probably wouldn't want. to do it for the rest of my life. I'd want to go back and forth between it. But that's what I

love about this industry is you never do the same thing for too long. So you can go to theater for a little bit and then do film and then do television and then it, because it exercises a different set of muscles, I feel. And it, that's, that's the fun because you always keep yourself on your toes and you never kind of get too comfortable anywhere. Do you want to have children? I do. You do. It was up to you. I'm guessing one boy, one girl as everyone else would. Or do you want five brothers? I want three. You want three kids? Two girls in a boy? I don't know. Whatever. Whatever the Lord gives you, you believe in that stuff? Yeah. You believe in the Lord? I do. I do too. I'm a Lord believer, Rob. Yeah. A Lord believer,

yeah. Charlene, publicist, do you believe in the Lord? Do you pray every night? I do. I think this is my thing. I was raised Episcopal, but, you know. What does that mean? It's Christian, but... Little differences. A little, little differences. It's kind of like Catholic but not really, I don't know, somewhere in the battle, to put it broadly. But I think as long as everyone, I think it's just important to believe in something greater than yourself. And whatever that is for you. Have faith in something.

Whether that's an energy or the universe or a certain deity or religion or whatever. Yeah. That's what I think is more important than anything. What's more important than that is letting people believe what they want to believe. I don't care what you believe in. That's what you believe in. Yeah, exactly. I'm not going to tell you and just don't tell me what.

to do. I feel the exact same way. I was more people felt that way. Rob? I'm against people being able to believe. Such an asshole. Of course, Rob. This is really great. I mean, so you want to get married? Yeah. Maybe. Yeah. You want to have kids? Yeah.

You want to be loved? Yeah. You want to be in love? Yeah. Angelin Clace says, what can you tease us about Clace's relationship in 3B? What is 3B? 3B so when we shoot our seasons we shoot 20 episodes a season and they split them up in the way they air them in 10 and 10 and our first 10 have just aired so that's 3A and then 3B is coming up later this summer and the season ended kind of on a unpredictable note in that the last two lines of the season were somebody saying where's Clary and somebody else goes I killed her she's dead yeah yeah yeah you die so technically people think I'm dead but you know they don't Well, I mean, that's like, you know, on season three, you know, if Lex dies or people know that they're not going to kill me off. Right.

You're the lead. I mean, I was worried for a minute. I can't say that I didn't call our executive producer. You're the face of the show. Did I do something? Do I still have a job? You know why they did that? Because they, when you renegotiate because everyone always renegotiates after season

two or three. That's why they did it. They're like, oh, we can always let you go. Yeah. Don't even buy that. You negotiate. You business woman. You do that.

You get more money. So what I can tease is that Clary is, like, I'm still a part of the show, but everything's different now that all of this has happened. And now, you know, Lilith's, even though Lilith is gone, her effects will last throughout the rest of the season on every character, on Jace because he was possessed on Clary. Clace is Clary and Jace. So their relationship is definitely forever changed because both of them are dealing with. with kind of the aftermath of the final episode of the season. And also the fact that, you know, Clary's been through a lot. She got captured, almost executed.

Jace threw her off a roof. You also killed your father and brought him back and then killed him again. And they killed him again. So you're not that great. No, no, she's not. But that's what I love about her is that she has the best of intentions, but she makes mistakes all the time. And she falls on her face all the time.

I also fall on my face all the time, literally. But that's another story. I'm very clumsy It's got it's kind of bad It's gotten to a point on set Or even if there's like a wire on the ground People will be like cat There's a wire here

Please don't trip over this Please be careful Like a cat's got to walk into the She's got to walk over there Let's get a stunt double for her to walk Well it was bad as somebody else tripped on set The other day And they walked over to me and went

Oh geez I just pulled a cat And everybody left Oh my God That's mortifying But not really It's cute It's charming I'm clumsy I take it

We both worked with Todd Slavkin. This is Cryptonsight TV, who did a lot of stuff on Smallball. And Darren Swimmer, their EPs. They said, who's a better couple, Alec and Magnus or Clark and Lex? I don't know. I don't know. I think that's more of a question. I don't know.

Malik is like the end-all be-all. Yeah, a lot of good-looking people in your show. It's true. And every time they cast somebody, we all kind of look at each other and go, how do they do it again? Yeah. They got another one. A lot of good-looking folks out there. Yeah.

I've never gotten one called. be on Shadowhunters. You should be. Thank you. Maybe I will. You know what? We should talk to Todd and Darren about that. Yeah.

But you're going to have to do a lot of makeup so I could look a lot. I don't think so. So I can compete with you guys. It's not a competition. I love Todd and Darren. They were always sweet, fun to be around. They're just, they're good guys. Yeah.

Do you feel the same way? Yeah, absolutely. They've done great things for our show. If you can invite one actor, actress to guest star on Shadowhunters, who will be? Aside from you. Who, did you hear that? Charlene. Charlene.

Helen, Miren. Helen Mirren, sure. Actually, I keep talking about this because we have, Mick G is an executive producer on our show and on Supernatural. And I just have this kind of, I have this idea of a cool crossover episode because we both hunt demons. So, you know, there's demons that exist. And if the universes were the same,

what if we both show up to hunt the same demon? How would that work? Like, what's the, you know, who has jurisdiction? That's pretty cool. That's a good idea. And you know what? Jensen asked me to be on Supernatural. Well, you should be on the crossover episode.

You should be the demon. I'll join both of you. I'll be a demon. That made me look really ugly. That's the little the CGI on my face Like we talked about in the beginning Some of our demons are actually really handsome You should see

We have like a prince of hell Can I have an accent? Yeah You should have an accent I could talk like this Everything like this I'm the demon from Transylvania We haven't had a demon from Transylvania yet

It's Clary I kill you I kill you life Star Wars or Harry Potter Jess M. Serrano Oh my God Shall I rip my heart in him? I'm guessing for you it's Harry Potter I grew up with Star Wars more than Harry Potter

I mean I love Harry Potter but I grew to love Harry Potter later Are you really good in Star Wars? You know characters? Yeah, pretty much Okay, who said, who's more foolish? The fool or the fool who follows him? Oh, okay. Is that Obi-Wan?

Yeah! Okay. There's a point. Who said, O-D-D-D? It was a Java. That's not fair. It was a Java. They said O-T-D or something.

Out for the day? Man. Nessa, Glory Frey, which artists would Clary probably listen to? Oh, I would think, well, rock solid panda, of course. It's a band on the show. She not her best friend's band. Oh, it's a real, it's a fake band. It's a fake band on the show, yeah. No, it's very real.

Alberta Resenda is a fantastic singer. And he actually does get to sing on the show, which is really cool. Wow. Yeah. And you sing. I do. Really? What do you sing?

Do you sing in the shower? Yeah. What do you sing? It depends on my mood. Sometimes I'm like Cole Porter, musical theater, Steven Sondheim. Sometimes I'm singing 30 seconds to Mars and sometimes I'm singing Taylor Swift. Really? So you like country, you like rock, you like old, classical.

Yeah. I think that's pretty good. Thank you. This has been an incredible interview. I've really had fun with you. I think you're pretty damn dynamic. But I have to ask you. Okay.

So on Instagram, you have a lot of followers. You have a million. Yeah, and that's something that has become really interesting with Shadowhunters, because most of our audience is very engaged on social media. It's become a really big thing for our show, and I've learned a lot about it. But something I have learned about it is not to take it for granted. Because as an actor, you do so many things, and half of them go out in the world, and nobody cares. Nobody sees them.

I've done many of those projects. So have I. Yeah, nobody sees them. It's one of those things where when you have a project, that people care. Yeah, it's a huge responsibility. And yeah, you have to deal with everybody's opinions. But how cool is it that people are actually invested in something that you're also passionate about? And that people actually care and they are excited to learn and see more and talk about it. Well, to me, I'm not saying this as a kiss ass. This is just an honest opinion. I think

it's a fact that our fans, the people who are following us. And without that, without them, we don't have careers. We don't have and think, you know, as much as I hate social media. I also love social media because I could say, hey, thanks, John. Thanks, Sophie for that response. It really means a lot to me. And they could have, they could have a response from me. And we could have sort of a, sort of a cyber relationship out there. And they could like, you know, and what better way to say, hey, listen to my podcast and have a listen. And hey, here's the guest that you guys love. You may not like me, but you like KMAC, who's here today from Shadowhunter. So you might would be listening for Rob.

It's true. Or maybe you didn't know Charlene was going to be on the show today, just not saying anything. But that's the reason I live tweet every episode too because I love seeing

people's immediate reactions and I love interacting on that live basis when they're just on the edge of their seat because their reactions are way so, they're so intense sometimes

and I think it's so fun to see people just suddenly something will happen on the show and then Twitter just explodes with people all caps and gifts and gifts. and boomerangs and all this stuff. I met you at the, do you remember where we met?

Was it at Isaiah's house or was it somewhere else? No. Where did we meet for the first? We met at the pilot premiere party. That's right. For, um, uh, for Shadowhood. For Shadowhooders. Yeah.

What's that show again? It was at Mick G's house. It was. It was a really a big event. It was. It was. It was. And it went, did, let me ask you an honest opinion.

When you saw the show, when you were there, you're like, did you think, you think a this is not getting picked up b uh maybe we have a chance see definitely this is awesome what was your honest gut your initial my initial insane i was not based on the way you really liked it but when you thought it was going to be how it was going to be received i wasn't sure i try not to predict those things honestly because then you just get too involved in what if it is or what if it isn't or it's the same thing with seasons getting picked up or pilots getting picked up it's like you can't stress about those things because there's so many factors that have nothing to do with the quality of the show or anything um but i was just so excited that people were

excited and that whole night was a blur for me because we'd we'd spend the entire year no oh okay no i don't think i don't think i don't think i don't think i was such a blur no i that night was such a crazy blur because we had like all day of press and then all night like hanging out with everyone um but it was just so exciting to kind of have worked so hard on it and we weren't allowed to tweet a lot about it we weren't allowed to show a lot of people a lot of things because they were trying to keep it all under wraps and then suddenly for them to just throw it out in the world in such a big way the response was so huge immediately because people had been waiting for so long that it was just kind of overwhelming more than anything else we always

wrap it up and sort of talk about this is just in brief you may have nothing to say okay but i've said to you the one thing i look at you because i think you're a pretty amazing person inside out thank you but um you know if i were your therapist i would say hey learn to embrace those stagnant times or those moments where you know you don't have to do anything and you can just decompress and do nothing and be alone with yourself because that's what i'm learning to do is like be happy with myself. That's the only thing I would say to you. And that, I think, comes with age. I appreciate that. And this isn't condescending. I'm saying, but now we're going to reverse it. Uh-oh. If you were my therapist and I want you to be dead honest, I don't want you to be,

I don't want you to hold anything back. I want you to say, what would you say to me? Like your guy, I see it. I see the wheels. I'm trying to think. Rob, Rob, don't answer for her, because I know you have a lot to say here. Well, Rob knows you a lot better than I do. Well, he thinks he does. But I think if I were to tell you something, it would be And this is kind of, I don't know, it's sort of what I tell everybody, but maybe find those silver linings whenever you can. I don't think you're a person that doesn't, but I think it's always helpful. That's what you gather for me. Put me on the spot here.

Maybe, you know, learn to be okay with your loud socks and not let people's comments about your loud socks bother you because I like the loud socks. I thought there was going to be something profound coming. Wow, I really, I penetrated, she's going to say something. Really, you know, just dark or whatever, and she looks at my socks. They're Montreal Expo socks. I think that's awesome. It's on theme with the Canadian filming location. Yeah.

Do you talk to your mom and dad every day, your grandma? I talk to my mom every day for sure. FaceTime? Yeah. What do you talk about? My socks. Sox? Sometimes.

You wear socks? Or I do, yeah. Not with these shoes. Well, I mean, I have little socks on. You have a little socks because you don't want your feet to smell. I'm a smell person. Like feet, breath. like people to smell good.

Well, that's generally... Is that wrong? No. My grandpa is a dentist, so I get it. Do you floss every day? I do. Do you have incredible breath? I don't know if I have incredible breath, but I like to think that I have good dental

hygiene. How many times have you kissed a jace? A lot. And does he ever, does he always have pretty good breath? Yeah, well, okay, this is something that actually a lot of people know about me now because of the show, but I always have these in my pocket. Those are Listerine breath strips, right? Can I have one of those?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And even on set, I always have them in my pocket. Just because my grandma used to have them in her purse. And it's kind of something that I just got in the habit of. Can you give Rob like three? No. Do you like one, Rob's breath? That's good. Okay. Okay. Cool. But what if I think that if someone doesn't floss, it doesn't matter how many times they brush or gargle shit or, you know, their breath still will smell that you have to floss your teeth. I don't know. But Dom usually has really good breath. But, you know, we always, like, share these, too. But it got to the point, actually, season one where, you know, you always do the interviews. It's like, oh, tell us something that we don't know about your cast members. And everybody was like, oh, yeah, Cat always has Listerine strips in our pocket to the point where Listerine sent me a box of these.

Really? Maybe they'll send me a box. That would be nice. Hashtag Listerine. Hashtag Listerine. Hashtag Listerine. Yeah. Have you ever said to a makeup artist, oh, my God, can you tell him, can you give him some breath, man?

His breath is like he just had a shit sandwich. No. Never. No. but you don't tongue there's no tongue kissing no have you ever tongue kissed on set like on a scene because maybe some people here's the thing this is a good question listen listen listen kiss and tell either a lady doesn't kiss and tell either but this is business i'm not talking about your personal right still but hang on what think about this most people when they're doing plays or a movie

the audience thinks are they french kissing in the scene but there's this this protocol i don't know what it is but you don't really tongue but how but how will some people some actors know that that's what you're not supposed to do how come how maybe some actors when they're kissing they don't know it's their first time and they slip you some tongue you're like hey we don't do tongue has ever happened where you're like hey no tongue no I think because look is it I don't know it depends on like the character in the situation and and it depends on the two people have you given jace tongue no all right that was a fair question but I have a feeling you might have given tongue to someone.

I'm trying to remember at this point, because it becomes so technical, it's not something I really think about. So you don't, have you ever kissed someone on set and then gone, wow, that person's lips are supple and soft? Those scenes are always the ones that they try and make so perfect. And then you suddenly become aware of every little detail when there's 50 people staring at you and, you know, two or three cameras. Yeah.

But, like, at this point, especially with Shadowhunters after doing it for three years, we've all kind of shared everything at this point. Your sister, you're the little sister. You're the little sister that the older brother's making out with no tongue. Really weird. Especially on Shadowhunters. We talk about that because the plot is very interesting. It's like, oh, you have chemistry with this person.

And then, oh, he might be your brother. But, oh, wait, he's not your brother. This is actually your brother. Oh, but wait. Star Wars parallel. It's really Star Wars sometimes. Right? Yeah.

What's your Instagram and Twitter handles? My Instagram is at Kit Katz Meow. My Twitter is at Kat underscore Max. Numerra. What do you want people to know about you? They've learned a lot today. About me? Yes. What would you say if somebody said, who are you? If they didn't listen to this podcast. Who am I? I am a 22-year-old grandma, basically, who's also a huge nerd and is super ambitious. Kind of wants to do a little bit of everything. I like that. I could see you having your own album. I could see you maybe doing a horror movie. Yeah. I've done to do a horror movie. And you

were on in Mays, Maze Runner. Maze Runner. Absolutely. Was that an enjoyable experience? So fun. Right. Yeah. You enjoy everything. I do. I don't. That's the only difference. You know, this is something my grandfather always told me. He's like, if you're not having fun, you're not doing something right. Do you hear that, Rob? Catherine, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you today. This has been a real treat. Watch Shadowhunters. Where can they watch this? They can watch it on the freeform app internationally on Netflix. It's also on a lot of other platforms. And what else is going on? Anything else? I mean, you do that most of your life right now, so you're consumed by that, but there's other things going on? Yeah, there's some irons in the

fire. I'm hoping things pan out eventually on a couple things, but nothing I can kind of talk about now, unfortunately. Anything you want to say to Rob? Thanks so much for, you know, listening and putting up with this today. Thank you for listening inside of you. Football season is here. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros. One of the most interesting quarterback rooms. To college. Michigan is set at eight and a half wins.

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