Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Ep 18: Topher Grace

Episode Date: August 7, 2018

Topher Grace (That ‘70s Show, Spider-Man 3, BlacKkKlansman) joins me to talk about landing the role as Eric Forman on his first ever audition, the events that led up to him signing his contract without an agent, and how there was no sweeter first than that whole first year of the show. Topher discusses hanging out with Tom Welling before his wedding, gives me an amazing Michael J. Fox impersonation, and discusses auditioning for one of the most hated characters in US history in BlacKkKlansman. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum with my good buddy Rob Hollis. If you try to spell his name, you'll probably miss it. It's H-O-L-Y-S-Z. You got it right. I bet your other buddy, Dax, couldn't do that. He is afraid to pronounce it. Does he just say Holly C-Z? He just avoids it altogether.

Yeah, we got a great guest today. Thank you again for listening to this podcast. We started out with like, you know, a couple thousand and ten thousand. And now the numbers are just, they're huge. Huge. I love it. I love that people are listening in. I hope we're giving you a good show and just trying to keep it real, Rob. Yeah, we try to keep it real, real. And guess who we get real with today? I see Topper Grace. Yep, Tofer Grace. That's, if you didn't know that, we find out on the podcast, I'll just give you one treat away. Christopher, he just took the Chris off and it's just

Tofer Grace. And he'll explain why he did that and called himself Tofer. What was Tofer in? I think he did what, that 70s show? That 70s show. He did the movie Traffic with my good friend, Erica Christensen. He, uh, he and I were good buddies back in the day. Not that we're not good buddies now, but he's got a family. He's more mature and he does more mature things, I think, with his life. He's in this new movie, Black Klansman, which is going to be a huge movie of Spike Lee joint. Yep. I think he plays David Duke. David Duke. Oof. Kind of not a great guy. Not a great guy. Um, so we talked to him how he prepared for that because he had to use some vulgar language and some racist language. And, uh,

there's a great story about this, about how he just didn't want to even say these words in the audition for Spike Lee, and I'll let you guys listen to it. But this is a great story, how he won a karaoke contest at my house that I think Debbie Gibson and Tara Lipinski judged. This episode of Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum is brought to you by hymns, not to be confused with hymns at a church, Rob, HIMS. Are you aware of what they do for men like myself and yourself? I am very aware.

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It was kind of a look into your future. But I pretended to be bald. Like, they shaved my head and, you know, but a lot of, you know, it grew back, thankfully. But, you know, why not start before you start to lose your hair? And if you could do something about it before you lose it, wouldn't you do that? I would. What was it like being bald? Is that something you're looking forward to or?

I mean, bald is cool, but if you don't want to be bald, you don't have to. Do you want a bald spot to just pop up or you want to do something about it, Rob? Do you want your hairline a receipt or do you want to do something about it, Rob? I definitely don't want. Forhems.com. That's 4HIMS.com. Connects you with real doctors and medical grade solutions to treat hair loss. Well-known generic equivalence to name brand prescriptions to help you keep your hair.

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ForHems.com slash inside. That's F-O-R-H-I-M-M-E-M-E. dot com slash inside for hymns dot com slash inside my good friend tofer grace i hope you enjoy it it's my point of you you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum inside of you with michael rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience uh there's no surprises here we're talking to the about the Twilight Zone. That's the whole episode.

Were you a big Twilight Zone fan? Oh, yeah. How many have you seen? I've got all those DVDs you've got over there. Yeah, people say, why do you still have DVDs and Blu-Rays? I just can't put them away. I can't throw them away. They have the extended stuff.

Can you download all of the Twilight Zone now? Yeah, I think they have most of the seasons on, um, Rob, is it Netflix? I don't know. Oh, God, he doesn't know anything. Why did I start out with a question? He doesn't know. Thank you for allowing to be inside of you, first of all. Thank you for having me.

No joke, dude. I think you have done it right. I mean, without disclosing where you live, for years, you've had this amazing house. Right. You're always having fun. Like, I won a karaoke competition in this room. This room where we're sitting right now. And just so everyone who's listening knows, Michael was in the competition.

Yeah, I finished third, second, third maybe. I'm sure it was not first because I took first. And my friend, Jane, won first place. Do you remember what you sang? Yeah, because I thought this guy, you were doing footloose and you had dance moves and it wasn't fair. But in the home court advantage, you sang something in the finals. Yes, it was a home court advantage and you had all these moves and look, you're a better singer than me. I'm not really a good singer, but I thought this has to be funny.

It's the only way I can kind of like build an edge here. You were not only funny, and you're going to explain this, but you were stoic. You didn't move much. You were passionate. You sat on a stool. That's right. You're still mad about it, is what I can hear in your voice. Yeah, I am because I felt like there was a reason I didn't win.

I honestly, you know. Yeah, there's a big reason you didn't win. Because you were better. Yeah, basically, yeah. No, I clinched it with, we had partners you had teamed us up with, and we did a whole new world from Aladdin, which already was, you know, great duet. But then on top of it, I was pointing out sites from the magic carpet, which I think that's That's right.

That got me the win. Yeah. You were improvising. Yeah, I went off book. But it was kind of with the movie. I was like, you know, look, the pyramids. It was just so earnest. How did that song go?

Well, you don't want to do that. A little something like two, three, four. A whole new world. That wasn't yet, was it? The thing that really, if you want to do Disney really well, even though they don't do this in the movies, but you want to do it in a karaoke competition, is you have to speak the most earnest line. you and me you know what i mean like when the music is going softly yeah exactly i think that did it for me yeah you but i remember you i really think you were angry when i won yeah you know what

did you remember who the judges were i'm sure you do i think it was debby gibson and tera lopensky the figure skitter they were the judges that night and they chose you they all had a crush on you too i knew i had my uh do you still have that trophy uh because i know my name was written on the trophy Oh, was there a trophy? I really don't remember there being a trophy. Well, I'm just glad now we're the truth getting out there with this podcast. You also went somewhere with me, which was very special to me, because you gave in it as most people when you say the word, the words Gordon and Lightfoot in the same sentence. If you're not born before 1970, you might not want to.

By the way, I was one of those people before that night. Before that night? You kind of like, I might have heard his stuff on 70 show, right? So I knew who he was. But like, I was not a huge. huge fan and you said we're going to a gordon lightfoot concert you're a game i i'm i'm pretty easy going i'm down to you are easy not only that but you didn't you drove to anaheim with me we had look the main attraction was hanging out with you but then i mean nothing could have prepared me

except for a gordon lightfoot greatest hits album for what we were about to watch which we listened to in the way there i'm sure we i got you like you know up to date on the gordon life of jams yeah there was no like here's something off the new album yeah he just went straight to the sundown and uh sun down you better take yeah yeah it was uh i mean what year was that that was two probably 2003 four and do you remember his moves i remember being like really out of my depth at that concert i mean i might have been by three or four decades the youngest person there yeah but it was great it's so much better than going to i don't know whatever the okay yeah uh yeah whoever but you've always been like a shy person you've always listen you're a fun person you're

outgoing you can improvise you can you're entertaining but what i noticed to me when i went to the 70s show back when i was filming a show called zoe duncan jack and jane we filmed next door to you and we got canceled within a year do you remember that's what we remember i don't remember which one you were i was jack you were jack you were you why should you remember that actually no i'll tell you i remember it because it was on the wb and i really thought that was a good sitcom and i think it was probably just on the wrong network or something because that the talent on that show was Was Selma Blair, David Moscow, Azura Sky. Every one of those people is a great actor.

And, I mean, present company excluded. But, like, I honestly, I thought it was, like, maybe a little too hip for the room. Maybe, maybe. It was a fun show. What I'm saying is when I went to the 70s show, I know you're friends with everybody and you, but you were never, like, I'm not, I don't want to speak for myself. But I can't say you were very close with everybody. Like, they were all, I remember them all going out and partying and you didn't.

I remember hanging out with you. and they all partied and we didn't well i mean i'll i'll tell you i never wanted to be an actor you know i have a weird story like that i was found in a high school play which i wasn't even supposed to do that play i had an injury in tennis so it was like a weird set of circumstances that i even got that and so that was my first audition if you can imagine was for that 70 show and then just to be thrust into working as i mean i like wouldn't even do my homework in high school and all of a sudden i was this show where I mean the work was hard especially because I had no experience acting so I was very focused on that and I didn't really have a lot of time to endorse all that Hollywood

stuff and so yeah so I chose weirdos like you Michael to like go to you know because it was more kind of safe in a way I mean it's still you're talking 2003 that wasn't I was five I'd only been acting for five years at that point. So I'm really proud of the people that I hung out with back then. They were always very safe, cool people like yourself who you could have like a deep conversation with or go do something. You know, I'd go to like Universal Studios. Like that was enough input for me. I didn't go to like a Hollywood night club. I did, I had my moment of like going out to clubs every once in a while. And I just always felt the same after coming home. Like, why did I do? Why am I going out there? These are the people.

I haven't done it, but I mean... You've never done it. You never went clubbing. No, no, I certainly have, but I have the same feeling you're having, which, I mean, I certainly didn't... I don't fit in. I feel like I don't fit in. Well, yeah, I felt more like, like, what is the objective and, and who am I actually

meeting after having gone to a bunch of these clubs, like, no one that was that interesting or... And you're private. You never hear bad things happening about Tofer Grace. Well, I, you know, man, I really should have brought my wife to this, because she could tell you all of the horrible things I... You've got some weird shit going on? No, no.

She would just say, I got to take out the trash. Tonight's the night that the... What? And I haven't taken out the trash. That's one thing I didn't do. Is that what you're thinking about doing this interview? I got to take out the trash. If you miss the trash...

You know how it is here in the hills. If you miss the day, you're stuck with a lot of trash. Then you're behind the whole rest of the year. Yeah, not good. Not good. No, I would say, to answer your question, I was always really chill. I wouldn't have thought I would be that way. but the show that was so much 9 to 5 work.

I think a lot of people, even when they come in acting, if they're discovered somewhere, they do a movie, and then they have a long time free before their next movie. It was like, I hit the ground, like, just running, doing 19. I mean, 19 doing that 70s show, and you look at a character like that, which was great, because the characters all pop,

male were very different from one another. But you look back, did you think, I'm going to be a movie star? Without question, no. Without question. That's what I. I mean, it was obvious to me. No, I remember the director saying to me, like, hey, great take, you didn't face any of the cameras.

I was like, during the pilot, I was like, ooh, you know, all right, let's do another take. So, like, no, I wasn't thinking about films. I was thinking, like, can I survive? I mean, it's different now, network television, but at the time, it was like, we shot the pilot. I'd never acted before. That went out to 11 million people. I mean, like, it's still circulated. I didn't know this.

I felt like you were seasons. We never really got into these conversations. All I knew is from, like, you were from Connecticut or New York, and you went to Connecticut. And I knew a couple of things like your mom worked school. Yeah, she works at school, yeah, Michael. Right? Yeah. And your dad, what?

Was it a doctor? No, but that was a good guess. You almost say you got 50, one. What was he? He works in brand identity, but he was in advertising. I was wrong. He's a businessman in New York is probably all you knew at the time. Right.

But I think very few people have had as much of a, like on, Monday I wasn't an actor and on Tuesday I was an actor working in Hollywood, you know, within a period of like three months, I was on the air. You had a good head on your shoulders because it's because of them, by the way, it's because is it really? Yeah. See, because you're a product of your own environment. I've talked about this.

I mean, my parents are messed. You could look at me and see why I'm a little messy. I don't know about that, but I know. I'm a little messy. I'm definitely messy. I have my issues. I have my problems, but I'm not saying I just look at you, someone who says, you know, he's got it together.

He's focused. He's this. but I didn't know about the hell you started. The 70th show was really the first thing. So take me back to growing up in, you know, in Connecticut and how the parents were and how that started, how the acting started. And they were good parents. They were just the, were you disciplined? Were you in trouble?

Your parents did a fantastic job. You were such a nice guy. You're the kind of guy that, I mean, you know, now you're, you know, 10, 15 years older than me. Thank you. But like. No, no, I'm not 10 or 15 years older than you. Or 20, whatever. But, but you're the kind of guy.

that when, you know, I met everyone who was in town at that time, and your parents had such a wonderful job. However you got there, you're such a great guy, and you were so lovely to... Would you believe me if I just said I was a chameleon and I can sort of adapt? Like, I loved hanging out with you, but I could also go, you know, hang out and do whatever. I, you know, people have different lives where I could just sort of adjust. They never really fit in in high school, so I sort of adjusted to people. No, no, I don't think so. You don't think so. No, because you would have hung out with me. It would have been too boring for you.

Yeah, well, I didn't think you were boring. I thought you were funny. Well, for most people, I am too boring, and they're probably right. But I think, no, look, you're having a karaoke competition in your house. What you're a part of? How boring is that? Normal? You want it.

How boring is that? But if you're really trying to do the thing that whatever the objective is for most of these jerks in Young Hollywood, then, you know, yeah, you're like out of the club or you're doing hard drugs. I can't do it. I have to be in bed before midnight now. I just fall apart The next day is ruined It's ruined if I don't get to bed at a decent hour I don't even know

I mean we have a kid now Are you a good sleeper? I'll never know Again Last seven months no Because this little Bundle of joy Really like you rotate like the wife

Two hours than you like each or do you choose a night Has it work? You just you get on a new time zone It's like You know it's bad Michael you'll get this as an actor when you're like, well, I hope I get a movie and it's on nights and I can get some sleep. Oh my God.

Like working nights, I would have more time. Nights are the worst. Yeah, but this is like, yeah, it's more intense. But anyway, your folks did a great job. When your folks are listening to the show, they did a fantastic job. Talk to me about this. Talk to me about growing up of what was like with your parents and, you know, what kind of kid you were? Were you, you, you were a smart kid?

I, I know. I was really undecided as to what I wanted to do. I was in a really athletic town. The town was really into sports, and I wasn't, like, I liked being in the plays, but I didn't know if that could really be a job. All I knew was there were businessmen like my father. So, you know, I didn't know any artists growing up.

I didn't really think it was kind of possible. And from what I knew of it, it was too hard. So I was really lucky that I went to this boarding school. school, went to two boarding schools, actually. But the second one I went to the woman, she's now a woman, but the girl who did the sets, her parents, they were the headwriters on SNL. So they created Wayne's World, and they wrote Wayne's World. Come on.

They wrote Tommy Boy, and then they had just written and won the Golden Globe for Third Rock from the Sun, which was on at the same time, Zoe Duncan, Jack and Chain. Right, thank you. And the 70 Show were on at this studio over here. And they saw me in the play and kind of came up to me. I mean, this is really something I had only had little parts in the plays. And then I sprained my ankle in tennis. I was like, I'll do the play because all the girls are doing it.

And then, you know, I really, I love doing it, but I didn't have any. I mean, look, when you're doing a bad play in a boarding school in New Hampshire, you're not like, how can I kind of transition into Hollywood? But these people came up to me. And I knew what they did, certainly. And they said, like, hey, can we call you when you're going to USC? Because I'd gotten into USC out here. Right. What you left early?

Yeah, but I said, like, yeah, babe, like Hollywood. Like, let's do lunch. Like, have your agent, call my agent. Like, I didn't even, I thought they meant to be their assistant or something. I had no idea. But I guess that was the beginning of the development season. You know what I mean? Like, because it was the year before.

And then they called me when I was at USC and said, I mean, it's so embarrassing. I remember this woman. This is Bonnie Turner who, yeah, Bonnie and Terry Turner, who wrote some of the great things of that time that I was a huge fan of. She called me at college.

It was a landline at the time. And she said, Hey, it's Bonnie. And I said, all right. Like, Bonnie. Bonnie who? Bonnie lies over the ocean. And she said, like, where do I know you from at USC?

No, no, Lindsay's mom. And I was like, oh, okay, all right. like, yeah. Why is she calling me? Yeah, and she said, we're doing a sitcom. It's Boogie Knights that just came out. So it's like, Boogie Nights meets the graduate. That's what she said, which is kind of like actually a good pitch for that 70 show. How old are you at this point? I was probably 18. And I said, I mean, okay, like, best of luck with that. I mean, what do you call you? You know, it was like, I hadn't even acted since that play. I enacted in college. What was the play? That was the funny thing happened only at the forum. But it was the school

I went to a wonderful school. They were not, they didn't have a big drama program. So they only did plays that like didn't have a lot of scenery. So we did like Our Town and Godspell and these are the ones I had kind of smaller roles in. And she said, no, we want you to come read for it. And I had lunch with Tom Warner of Carsey Warner. A couple, like a year or two ago. And he kind of revealed to me that this is so true, I'm sure. But they were like, look, we're bringing in this kid from my daughter's high. school who's in L.A. It's not going to be the guy who's on the show. I mean, he's not even an actor. That's what they were saying, of course. But we wanted to be someone like this kid. We just can't find someone like him. And they said, you have to bring your picture and resume. I said, like, okay, so I brought like a, like a picture of me and my friends at six flags. And like the resume. I didn't know what they even meant, like a headshot. I didn't even know what that one. And they said bring a, um, the resume said like Dunkin' Donuts and Suncoast video.

all these places I'd worked. You're a liar. You're a liar. You said Dunkin' Donuts. This is my resume. But I will tell you the one thing that I got when I got there was that all these kids were too cool. They were, like, I had read the sides, and I knew like this. You weren't that cool.

Well, this character of Eric was not a very cool guy, and I could hear these kids through the wall, or when they were rehearsing outside the room, they were kind of like, you know, Donna, I'm such a dope. York, you know, and they all had so much gel in their hair, and they were such, they were good looking. Some of them I knew from, like, saved by the bell, the new class or whatever. And I was like, oh, man, these kids are all cool. Like, I'll show them what a, like, how a real loser. What a real loser sounds like. I went in there, and I mean, they were like, oh, God, this kid is such a loser.

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Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the service. so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. Do you have an agent or do you have to get an agent to negotiate? No, that's, you know, I went to two or three at just Carsey Warner, which is the production

company, where they had me come like a bunch of times to like, are we doing this? Like, are we actually sending this kid who's never acted to network on this thing? And I didn't know. I thought you just had to come and do a bunch of callback. It might have been more. It might have been like five or six times. I remember I took the bus from USC because I didn't have a car. Were you stressed?

Stress. It's a two-hour bus ride. And you have to change over on the 101 freeway. They couldn't pay for these things? I mean, they didn't know I was going to get it. I didn't know I was going to get it. So I started taking a cab. And they thought you had a car.

I don't know what they. I mean, I certainly didn't. Tell them you were taking the bus. I mean, it's so embarrassing in USC. Everyone has a car. Even these kids, all the kids have a car. So I started taking cabs, which were like $50 each way. And I thought, I better get this.

I am $300 in the hole. Like, it, you know, it made up for it. I remember they said, we're going to go over to Fox. You know, we want to test you. I said, okay, cool. I said, you need an agent. And I went and met with like an agent or two. And they wanted me to sign a contract.

It just doesn't feel right. I mean, I don't know anything about the industry. They didn't even want to go through an agent. They just go, he doesn't have them. Let's just sign here. No, no, the agents wanted me to sign a contract. Oh, okay. Like for three years or something.

Three years? Usually it's seven. It was, no, no, no. This is just with the agent, not with the show. Oh. So, like, I was clearly visiting agents who were, saw how green I was that they could. I mean, I've never signed a contract with an agency my whole life. Did you know what I mean?

I don't think anybody has. You just have an agreement. And then when they stopped doing their job, let him go. If you're that green, then they're like, hey, sign this so you can't fire it. I'll take advantage. So I knew that was wrong. And I kind of called the Turner's who I knew. And I said, I can't do this because it just feels like I'm out of my depth. And they said, we'll lend you our lawyer. So the lawyer then made me sign a six year contract or, you know, negotiate a six year contract. And look, by the way, it was the worst deal ever. I should, I was not deserve of getting any money. You never worked. So they were like, how little can we pay this? guy so if you can imagine i did the first season of that show without an agent or anyone like well that's good without an agent you probably at least it's not 10% more gone 10% of the five dollars i was making each week but you didn't care you're like i could pay for the taxi oh i paid back the taxi within one

episode i bought a taxi i have a taxi still in my my it's so funny i haven't talked about this in year you know it's 20 years ago right now uh what it was 1998 and this is you know, 2018, and I will never remember a year. I mean, we just had our daughter this year, but I would never remember something as in detail as that year because it was so many things changed for me. It was like I had never worked and then I was working. I was kind of like a kid and all of a sudden I was like in an adult world. You didn't start on a crappy show. You went right to a great show that made a lot of me. I did so many crappy shows. I still do them. I, you know, I had one big hit and you're lucky to have one big hit. You're lucky to be just, you're

working in this industry but for someone to be 18 and then 19 being on a hit show what was it like to be just in the room in the first table read when you met everybody and there's ashton kutcher he was a star by then right ashton had never acted before he hadn't so you guys he was a big model he was a big model he was a big model i'd seen him on a billboard uh in his underwear uh yeah how do you look uh fantastic good and uh who else did i see wilmer had like couldn't even speak English. Is that true? I mean, he was, it was pretty, he learned a lot that first season, like, really quickly. He had just come over, I mean, if you think my experience was crazy. I mean, imagine he'd just come over from Venezuela. And I think he did one pack bell commercial. And then

someone said, here's that 70s show. I mean, like, what an amazing experience for him. The two who had worked were Danny and Mila. And, uh, and Laura hadn't worked. She was a mom. I mean, it was, you know, I, look, I hesitate to like let this whole thing. become about like my nostalgia for that period of time. And now I love it. It's funny because it is in itself a nostalgic show, right? Yeah. But every first experience is great, right?

Like everyone, your first kiss is like so important in the first time, whatever. You're always kind of chasing the dragon of the first things in life that you, there's no sweeter first than like that whole first year because it was, I mean, the whole experience was wonderful, but it was like we were all new. We were very close in age to our characters. grew further away from the age of our characters because they kind of had to keep it in the 70s. But like we were together as a group and then doing shows about what this group is doing together. And then some of those things were happening in our real life. And it was like, I mean,

to me, I look back on it like boyhood. You know that, you know the movie Boyhood? I love Boyhood. It's the same thing for me. It's still, it's like eight years of my life chronicled in a row. It's just done on a sitcom. But it's that same kind of like I wasn't a man before. And then, you know, by the end of it, I felt like I was. It was just. what an amazing experience and you know and I knew before all those kids had all that success I just knew I was like these every one of them is so talented you know it's funny is like you know you could have come here today and there's a lot of actors who were like you know let's talk about today I'm doing because you're doing so much and people are doing something but I find it comforting and nice that you like to reminisce and you like to think of like the old days and how it started and because people probably talk about all the time but that's what the first thing you did so a lot of people might want to just back off and say, ah, you know, let's not talk about that. Oh, yeah, when people say, what's your favorite role? I say, I can never be anything but Eric Foreman.

I mean, you know, I think people have feared that they might always be identified with that role. But, I mean, to start in just virgin snow like that, and to the, you know, the first thing I ever did is still airing, it feels so, uh, that's how it should be for every actor. You cherish that time period. Yeah, I really do. Do you still get residuals for that? Well, that's why I cherish it. Yeah, I don't get small, though, residuals anymore. Oh, yeah?

Those sitcoms, they just go forever. Well, the sitcoms can kind of run longer. I think they're not as, you don't have to have seen the episode before or the episode after, kind of, yeah. Rob, did you watch the 70s show? Yeah, I've seen. Did you like it? Yeah, I loved it. Growing up.

Okay, that's a little insulting. How old are you, Rob? I'm 29. You're 29? Mm-hmm. That's your 28. Nope. Yeah, there's nothing better than when someone says like, man, I grew up on that show.

Yeah. That's what everybody says to me. It's like, oh, my God, I had the biggest crush on Lex Luther. when I was 12. I'm like, gross. Yeah, walk me through Lex Luthor, man. Yeah, no, I don't want to walk you through anything. Where do we meet?

I'm inside you. We met at, we met at. I think we met at, when I was doing Zoe. Yeah, okay, we met there, but we started hanging after Tom's wedding. Tom Arnold. Tom Arnold. Tom willing.

Well, Tom, I could have been Tom. I missed Tom Arnold. Tom's been married five times. I'm his son's God. Father of Tom Welling, we went to his wedding in Massachusetts. Like Martha's Vineyard. Martha's Vineyard. And I remember thinking you were,

hilarious and there was this whole other side of you i knew you more as like lex luther and i thought like well i love that show and like i'll tell you a great tom story people are so disappointed by the way i think when they meet me when they think i even see when i go to signings or whatever it's not that they're disappointed but they're like oh my god he's not cool at all he's not rich he's not a but they just i think that that's what they think they want me to be this like really smart guy well you well you played a guy very different from you i think when you play someone who's or you're most famous for someone who's very similar to you than, you know, people, whatever, identify with you more. But I'm going to tell you my Tom Welling story. This is before that took place,

his fiancé at the time. And I guess I met Tom through Ashton because they had met on a Abakramian fit shoot. Of course. We were never there. I'm not good looking enough to be. And Ashton was dating January Jones, who he had met on that same Abercrombian Fitzhute. And Tom was dating his fiancé, who was also a model. So they'd all met, you know, I'm the best-looking person in the universe shoot that they went to. And they said, hey, come. And all, a bunch of sweet people.

They were all great. And they said, hey, come get lunch with us. And we went to some Mexican restaurant. And I remember sitting in that booth with these four Adonises and being, what was that song in Schoolhouse Rock that was like one of these things is not like the other? Yep. And like when the waiter came, he didn't even take my order. You thought you were another waiter.

No, he didn't know what was going on. And I didn't even blame him. I was like, I get it, I get it. I get it. It was like, they're so good looking. Such a great looking group of people. I remember being at that lunch being like, I guess I'm in Hollywood now. I have a theory about this.

I don't think I'm ugly. I don't think I'm, you know, these guys are. Why don't you think that? No, no, listen, these guys, this isn't about me. This is about them. They are so good looking. Here's my theory about beautiful people. When you're that beautiful, as you get older, any nuance in your look or wrinkle or age or anything different, anything starts to deteriorate on you, people notice it right away.

With average-looking people or a little above average or below average, no, you, wow, you look good. You look great. But when you're beautiful, you could only go downhill. Ashton's not going to get better looking with age. Are you kidding me? He's better looking now. Yeah, you think Phil looks great. Show me a picture of him.

Bring it up. You're backing me up. He came on back to this podcast. He is a good looking guy, but like, you know, I'm telling you. He's a great looking guy. You think he's going to be just looking when he's 60? I think it looks better than when we were doing the show. So my theory is wrong.

Well, I mean, you look the same. You're a good looking guy, but you look the same. No, I think, I hear what you're saying. I mean, I'm just saying they notice it. People notice things different. Look, Michael, they love your personality. That's what I've always been told. I don't know if that's true anymore.

So your parents, were they always supportive with your acting? It seems like they, I don't know if it's something they thought, hey, this is what I want my son to go into. No, they had no idea. They weren't unsupportive either. I remember they, when I got 70 show, my dad ordered variety and it came to his house like eight days late and in like bundles of like five, which, you know, makes no sense. But they would read it and call up and say like, I remember my mom. would say, Christopher, there's a new Jurassic Park they're filming, Jurassic Park 3. I'd say, well, I would love to, I'm sure they'll let me know if there's a role for me.

Like, but they really tried, even though they didn't come up in that. I don't think they knew an actor when I was growing up. Why do parents do that? Why do people do this? Listen, people. Why do you come up and say things like, why aren't you in the new Private Ryan movie? Yeah, you just didn't want to do it, huh, Michael? Why don't you want to go?

You know what? I just, I was busy. You know, I just... I told Spielberg, fuck off. I need some E-time. I mean, my mother is still... I don't tell her anything these days because I remember when saving private Ryan came out

and I tested for it. I remember... I didn't know this was a personal... No, but it was eight years later. She'd say, hey, what's going on with the Ryan? Oh, yeah, I learned really quickly when I was auditioning to not tell them anything that I was... Like, by the way, I will tell you...

I told you every other time I got a roll. Yeah, I'm not like... Oh, I just got like the lead in the new sports. Spielberg felt. Yeah. He started making money here. Season three, probably. In Hollywood, you renegotiate after season two's over or three's over and you

start talking. But did you guys go in as a group saying, hey, we want to do this together and or separate negotiations? You know what happened on that was Ashton and I didn't renegotiate? And we never talked about it. We just didn't. And, you know, we're doing a lot of things during the summers, too. So it was like, you know, in our focus, you know, it.

It's great. You have this summer hiatus where you can kind of go do a movie and then you come back and you're on the show that you love. So it was like a great time. And it's an age where you don't really, you know, you shouldn't really need a lot of money. And then, um, Todd, are you just brave? Well, God, are you brave? You guys. Let me tell you what I was. It was the stupidity of we just assume the show would be a hit forever. Like, and that really is stupidity because the odds are, even if it's doing well, something bad can happen in the network or whatever. But we really loved what. we were doing and I remember yeah around season three or four I was like god this is such a well-oiled machine so what happened was I think between the season of the fifth and sixth year I remember ashton was doing punked and he uh has started dating to me and then he did that movie where's my car that was earlier that was like where but it was every you know I was on traffic have you done traffic oh I had done traffic I think I was on the in good company set or whatever right right I remember getting a call where they said some of the other cast members had signed on to do a seventh year and we hadn't we only had to do the six years and uh and they called and said uh you know

ashton's going to do it and i was like you know i want to do an extra year like six would have been too short kind of and so i said to my to my agent just said i'll take whatever they're given ashton and it was that was it but hang on did they retroactively pay you which means you know what it means but i just learn what it means through negotiations but rob Retroactive payment means pay you in past what you should have been making for that rate. Thank you. I like to think of what we got as being retroactive, but you can think about however you want. It was just the last two seasons that Ash and I did at a different rate.

We're adjusted, yeah. And it just sounds to me like if I were the network, I would have said, hey, you all renegotiate for a seventh season or no one's getting an increase. You know, it's funny. The people on friends, I guess, had a lot of experience in the business and they all. banded together and they were very powerful that way our thing was just so much more hodgepodge i don't think we ever thought about it it was uh not like at least on my part it wasn't like uh strategic it was just like yeah i i would do another season like at that after that other after that next season we did the headwriters that were on the show left and he kind of went like

well this this might not be good for other reasons you know right uh but it was it was like uh really easy. I remember putting a lot of sweat into thinking about, you hear from a friend's cast about the kind of the tactics they used and it was pretty easy. There was no tactics. Whatever Ashton has, I'll have. Well, sure. I mean, he was crushing it and, uh, and, and, uh, and they had already paid the others. Yeah. So, any, a little advice for up and coming actors who have zero experience, which I had at the time. In season two, they'll kind of say, you know, their season, seven, sell it to us now. Like, we own you for six seasons, or we own you for seven seasons, sell us season eight.

And you go, and we'll start paying you now for it. And you go, what a great deal. We might not even make it to seven seasons. But, you know, I'd been lucky when I did traffic, Stephen Sotabberg, he told me that whole thing with Clooney on ER, because they were very close. I think they had a production company or something. And I had never heard that before. Is Clooney didn't even sign on for the extra year.

He just knew not to sell a sixth year because he'd be a movie star by that time. And so he didn't have to do, like, this extra year of VR, he got to leave and go do, you know, Steven Sauten films. Right. I mean, when you first, did you think I have a chance at working with Steven Soderberg? Did I have a chance at this movie try? Because that was a big shot. You know, that really changed your life in a lot of ways.

That was the first movie set I'd ever been on. That was it. And coming off the 70s show, they're playing. He's this funny, talented, goofy kid, though. Right? Soderberg was not aware of 70 show. It was like, I think I'd done a season of 70s. I was in the second season, and I just went to read for it.

And that was it. But I kind of said, like, is he going to care that I'm a sitcom? And they said, like, kind of what sitcom? And I said, oh, never mind. And then by the time he figured out I was in sitcom, whatever, it was such a different role. Remember, I kind of had like a shaved head. It blew my mind. Like watching you really.

No, but I remember watching, you go, oh, my God. This guy's an act. You know what's so funny, dude? at the time, I went to the Golden Globes with Erica Christensen. Good friend. She goes right around the corner from me. Who's the best, man?

Who's the best? And we'd had such, I mean, she was like 17 when we made that movie. And people were coming up to her and say, congratulations, you're so great. And no one recognized me. They all thought I was the guy from the 70s because I had my hair grow back out for the 70s.

And I remember thinking, no one's going to know I'm the same person and being really bummed out about it. And only like a couple years later, I was like, oh, that's a great thing to, like, be able to be in a totally different type of art, kind of. But at the time, I was so bummed because I thought, oh, I don't get any credit or whatever. But then I thought, you know, later I went, oh, it's great. It allows me to do a totally different kind of thing.

Well, you always, I mean, obviously, you seem grounded. You seem like you know who you are. You seem like you. But I got to think. I got to, I don't hope. I think, is there any sort of, do you get any sort of anxiety? Have you ever had issues with like, I can't sleep, I'm too stress, I'm taking things too seriously, I don't meditate, I don't, I'm going too fast, my mind's moving, I'm falling apart

here inside and nobody knows it. Have you ever been like that? Uh, you know, I hate to say no because it sounds like I'm some kind of household. No, it's honest. Well, certainly I've had different chapters of really questioning myself more, you know, for me, it's been more about personal life stuff. I'm so happy. married and I'm so happy to now be a dad and to me it was kind of like look all my actor friends hate when I tell the story about you know my first show was 70 sure the first film I did was traffic um and I feel like I've worked really hard to try to earn it in retrospect but I was very very

lucky how that happened and for me before I even was in it I could tell it's dangerous to go to Hollywood just socially that's why I was using the word safe in terms of hanging out with you that's kind of well talk to me about that more talk to me about you you were worried about going to how you already had this amazing hindsight like you you you just or intuition or whatever it is that where you were going you can't was it was that you can't take it seriously you can't not take it seriously but you can't you have to take everything with a grain of salt yeah what was the approach well we've all seen the movies Remember I saw Boogie Nights the year before I started 70 show, and that's actually a great Hollywood, even though it's about the porn industry, it's the same trajectory as any of these Hollywood movies, which is Christmas and July when you first start, and then there's always an inevitable valley, and then people get into some weird stuff.

I mean, how many movies have we seen about Hollywood where, you know, someone falls in with the wrong crowd or whatever? But how many people actually pay attention because they're going to Hollywood and go, oh, this could happen to me? or do you get out because the mentality would be also hey I'm a kid from Indiana I'm sort of a loser growing up I don't know what's going to happen and I have an opportunity and I go out I'm going to have a blast look at me I'm in Hollywood and I'm going to the beach and I'm going to party and I look we know all those people I mean the sad thing is being older now we know the whole story right the beginning of the story is so easy to watch it's like young beautiful people arrive in Hollywood every day right the person from every high school who everyone said you should be a movie star they like get their train ticket and they come out here and i mean tell me if you agree with this too i was thinking about this the other day i think that the beginning of my experience there was a much bigger class out here like whatever class we was our freshman year class don't you feel like it was like a thousand people and now it's down to like 100 well explain more elaborate whatever the group of like it seems like there were a lot more

people announce that there's nobody new in a way. No, okay, if we're the class of 98, freshman class of 98, I feel like that class has really dwindled. Yes. And I'm sure that's true of every single class that comes through. It's just true, very true. And I think it's a combination of, some people aren't good at it. Some people are great at it, but can't adapt.

Adapt. Some people make really bad decisions. Yeah, but I just knew everything, every Hollywood story I'd ever seen. oh you know what was on that time around that time was behind the music which wasn't about hollywood yeah and v h1 but every single behind the music was the same it was like you know like everything was going so great we were ripping up the charts and then i met my little friend cocaine and then it's just like a spiral downhill and just uh i just knew like you know it's a cd place and you know look it's it's it's like it's like we were talking about it's really about your looks and it's really about rejection and

you know it's all the worst stuff about high school but they've uh corporatized it out here yeah but it seems like you matured you matured at a young age like you you had good parenting you kind of took everything in stride you're like this is what i'm doing but you had a good head on your shoulders you didn't you didn't like you said you didn't renegotiate it right away you said you know i'm to do that. You kind of just, it seems like you were level-headed at a young age where people are always trying to find that. It's really my folks, man. Like they still are living in the house that I was born in. So like... Have they asked you for money? No, no. I said, well, you laugh with that, but that... Oh, wait, right. I shouldn't laugh. I'm only laughing at Pat and John Grace. I'm

not laughing at anyone else. I know. They, uh, they are like the most wonderful people and probably in any industry. I was, God, it's too bad. They probably won't hear this podcast, but they should. You know, I remember calling them a lot at the beginning and kind of asking their advice. I mean, they didn't know. We're just trying to figure it out on the phone. But also, they had a house that I could go home to whenever it got too hard. It's really bad to complain about fame. Like, no one wants to hear anyone complain about fame.

But it is really tough, especially when you're like 22 or something. And so to be able to go home to my childhood house and have nothing have really changed. You know, I went to do a movie about eight years ago. in Greenwich, Connecticut, which is a couple towns over from where I grew up. And I slept in my bunk bed that summer. I mean, my mom would wake me...

This is like a De Niro movie. My mom would wake me up. Say, like, hey, the shuttle is here for... I get in the shuttle and then go work with De Niro. I know. It was so... But good for you. That shows you that, you know...

But I'm spoiled in that sense. Like, you know, it's not up to you who your parents are. You're not. It's not... Yeah, it's crazy. How that works. Rob, you have good parents?

Yeah, I have the same situation. my parents still have the home I grew up in and Chicago it is comforting knowing that I mean I'm married with a kid but if I needed to go home there's kind of that safety there

always there and not everyone has this and it's I mean I say the majority of people don't and I'm just very very lucky and I've been thinking about it a lot lately since we had our daughter where I'm like oh like I got to make sure that

I give that to her that feeling you put a lot of pressure on yourself like I got to step up I got to be the best dad I got to be as good as my dad I got I raised my voice there I shouldn't have done that I should you know yeah yeah do you get mad at yourself like that was a bad choice well she's at the age where she doesn't understand me cursing

but I'm like how is this going to stop like I knocked over a plate the other day and it broke and I was like oh like when does that stop that because I don't feel like I I think like oh shouldn't say fuck like you could it's an immediate reaction yeah I got a yeah all those things is it weird that my immediate reaction would be like how long can I say fuck before she knows to say it? That is exactly what I'm thinking. Right? You got another probably about six more months. I got a little cushion. How long? You're a year and a half

before they can start comprehending? We still swear in front of Calvin a little bit. You better to start knock that shit off. How old is he? He's 16 months? All right. Yeah. I mean he's starting to talk so we know it's, the end is near for that kind of talk. Can you raise a kid swearing?

I mean, my parents raised me. My dad was like Jack Nicholson sometimes a week 13 of the shining and he'd be like what the fuck you know my mother he's like shut out mark just help him with his algebra shouldn't even be an algebra he's an idiot you know I mean I it was a lot of dysfunction but it was it was you know I make fun of it now I'm good now don't I look good

aren't I good totally yeah you're fine you're fine you're fine well it's when they start going to school and start using it that yeah you have to be concerned they won't by the way what's his name her name Mabel. That's a sweet name. Mabel Grace. Mabel Grace.

I always wanted to name my kid, Grace. Well, you can't do that. Grace. What do you mean? Well, you can't, you can't steal my name. That's my name. No, that's your last name. I call it Grace, Mabel.

How did they get, people ask you all this time. Was it one day you saw Taufer? Tofer's original. Christopher, it's probably taken, right? Is that what you're going to say Christopher Grace was taken? No. This started when I first went to boarding school. I went to boarding school in eighth grade.

So that's young for boarding school. Why did you go to boarding school? I grew up in a really myopic town, and I went to camp, and I met kids that were, like, a little bit different from me. And I'm like, man, these kids are way cooler, in my opinion. What were their names? They had... Even instead of Stephen? They had...

Michael? Yeah. Yeah. No, to be honest, yeah. Come on. No, for sure. It was like, no, I was growing up in town that didn't have a lot of diversity. And then I kind of said, hey, I was.

want to, you know, I want to go to boarding school. My parents weren't thrilled, but God bless them. They sent me. And, uh, and, and I loved it. Uh, but the first day of school, I'd been such a loser in middle school living at home. Chris, Grace. That was my name, because I'd introduce myself as Christopher. Christopher Grace. My mom's kind of a, uh, Patricia trapped in a pat, so she really pushed it on me. You know, your name's Christopher. And I'd say, how my name's Christopher. And people would say, oh, hi, Chris. And I'd be like, defer. And that's kind of how it's up.

But then when I went to boarding school, like, I think the first day of orientation in the first group of kids I talked to was like whoever the hottest girl in the school was. And she said, you should just go by Tofer. And I was like, done. What? And that's it.

Just like that a hot girl says Tofer and you're in. Yeah, I thought I was like, yeah, this is cooler. And the irony is no one calls me Tover. They call me Tofer. You know, there's no like, what's your wife call you? she calls me Christopher she does yeah she doesn't call you Tofer at all uh no I mean I guess in public when when it would be weird or whatever and then my folks call me CJ because my

name is John so no one's actually ever really called me Christopher except for my wife how many people have ever said to you Tofer that's such an original name how do you how did your parents come up to that people say that's such a stupid name you're not Indian you know or whatever but uh but I I like it because it was like I came up with that you know what I mean it was the name I gave myself in boarding school and then what I well wait a minute yeah the girl gave it to you let's get yes yes that's right uh and uh I I ran with it and she was she was right I think she said oh that's cute or something and I was like okay do you think I should change my name to Owen Rosenbaum or Owen Michael since my middle name's Owen is it too late to change my name Michael really want to

work how about Owen Wilson oh it sounds like a great idea oh yeah I love it you do a lot of impressions but no i only do one of my yep and i know who it is back to the future that's all i do and you can't really do it because it's a physicality yeah but imagine michael j fox he love it because you're so good at just like you guys have to see him doing his mannerisms and his jacket because you were on

Halloween once right yeah yeah yeah go ahead no i i can't do the voice as well as i can do the kind of you know what it was he was a sitcom actor doing films right so it was actually a great i mean you would agree probably seeing it it was a great sitcom movie it's like hard to describe like that movie the reason eric stoltz doesn't work in that movie because he was probably like doing a great job trying too hard but everyone like crispin glover but every they're they're so heightened like across the board everyone is so heightened in that movie you're right you need to hire a sitcom guy to like and i was realizing when i was doing 70s i was like oh i guess

i was kind of i was such a big fan of back the future i was like i guess it's because i was I was really liking that sitcom, you know, that like where you load up the joke. Like, I got to a point on 70's show after seven years where I really felt like I could kind of get a laugh. I mean, there's so much love for the character and stuff that that's really what it's attributed to. But you can kind of get a laugh by pausing for a long period of time and just building the tension. And I always thought that scene where he's like, listen, dad, dad, dad. Like, daddy-oh.

Like, why would you pause for that long in front of the guy? You know, but he builds in all these kind of tics that, like, make it more of a joke just by creating kind of tension. I don't know, whatever. I love it. Do you still audition? Well, this new, this Spike Lee movie that I did, I went in and read for Spike. Because I'm playing the Grand Master Wizard of the Black Klansman. Yeah, but if you, if it's something that we're, you know, I think they kind of said to Spike Lee, what do you think of Tofer for David Duke?

and you know the answer wasn't going to be like perfect you know like right so uh it's on you i think to go in and spike lee jordan peel how do you audition for this larger than life one of the most hated characters people in in in u.s history if not history david duke how do you go in what do you i mean because i read somewhere where you said it was hard for you even rehearse by yourself because you couldn't say those words. The N-word I'm guessing is one of them or other words that were just as bad. But to me, I get that. Like, I don't, I don't like to hear people hear me rehearse anyway. But then to say those words when you've never said them and having to become this guy, how hard was that transition? I know people who, who I don't believe think they're

racist that want to find a safe place to use those words jokingly. And I don't know. Maybe some of them can get away with it. I am not one of those people. Like, I, those words are off limits to me. So yeah, when I first started rehearsing in my office at home, I would still kind of swallow the words and, I mean, you know, they sound through the audience, the office? No. And my daughter had just been born and my wife was like, hey man, can you like really tone it down in here?

Oh, so she could hear you in the other room. Well, he gives a lot of kind of speeches. So I was like giving these hate speeches basically in the den. But I remember. thinking how do these I read Django and Chain and thought I don't think there's a role in here for me

but how do these actors go I mean what's that like for Leonardo Caprio on set when someone yells cut and you kind of go like hey that was crazy right like just kidding and I hope you don't think I'm a real racist because these are just the lines that are written especially when you're doing that good a job at being a racist like how do you do that good of a job unless you're a racist

but nobody ever I don't know the answer to that question even having done the movie So I went in to read for Spike And you know, I have a great deal of respect for He's done some of the greatest work of our time But I still say, hey man, I'm sure maybe every actor who's coming in to talk to you says this But I feel really awkward about what I'm about to say

And he was wonderful in kind of really making me I mean genuine not just saying hey man yeah don't worry about it I think he really made me feel comfortable going to that place. And then, you know, I just unleashed like the worst, like five minutes I've ever said. And it's kind of a, so it's a weird thing. It's weird on set. You know, you know, it makes me feel like almost like, like, if you would have told me that as a friend, like, hey, I'm going to go in and I'm going to say Spike, I want to apologize. I'm going to be, I would have said tote for, or tof.

I said, don't, don't do that. And you'd say, why? And I'd say, because then he's going to think. He wants somebody who's really powerful who just can go in there and just fucking do it. And he doesn't want to see people apologize. He wants this guy to be. No, I debated it. I debated it for a while.

Yeah. And that's, but then you said, no, I can't. I've got to say this. You went with your gut and it worked. Well, I guess like, I guess the truth is that I felt the script was similar in that the script is, you know, tonally, I was really glad Jordan Peel was producing it because it's very funny, which is like. even more dangerous than how racist some of the characters are is that the tone of the film is seen in the room yeah I've seen it and it's it's in the room when you audition Jordan

Jordan wasn't um but uh but I I felt like I you know Blumhouse which did get out course um is doing it and Universal and so this is a big movie this is going to be a huge I just saw it at can for the first time it was like I mean I'm just so lucky to be in it David Washington. David M. Washington. John David. John David Washington.

I get why you don't fully know his name and you, after the film, you will. Like, he's, he crushes it. My friend Carl works with him on ballers. Oh, yeah. He's great on ballers. Great on ballers. But, like, this is his thing. Like, he really just. I can't wait.

And Adam Driver. Adam Driver's crazy. I mean, it sounds like I'm just giving compliments to everyone. But there's a lot of great people in it who apparently do a great job because the movie's getting a lot of hype now. And truly it's Spike. Like, Spike. I mean, you just can't do that. I couldn't do that role for a lot of directors, you know,

because you just, you wouldn't feel safe. But, uh, do you stay in character on set? No, I mean, I was joking around. Well, would that Jim Carrey documentary be for me playing David Duke? I mean, like, it would be like so insane. That would be horrible. I, uh, no, I'm not like that as a person. I did have one or two of my first, like, well,

kind of took it home with me, which I've never had before. I don't have a deep process, but like, I've never had like trouble with what we're shooting. But some of it, when I was leading some of this clan rally, I was like, you know, I'm like leading these people and shouting these things. I was like, hey, man, I really need like a, just a second to like regroup because it's so. Did you allow you that? You had your time. Oh, no, he was, he's amazing. He kind of said, like, this is, you know, just remember, we're shooting one scene, but the scene is in service of something that, that I'm saying, you know, it's being filtered through me. and it's a part of a whole thing.

So today we're doing like all just hate speech, but like, you know, I got you. Did you, do you walk out? Are you hard on yourself? Do you say, God, damn, you're good. Do you ever, can you say that to yourself? Or do you go, eh, I don't know. You answer the question for it.

I want to hear what you said. I can definitely, when I'm good, I can go, yeah, yeah, you nailed it. And then I go, nope, you fucking were doing your thing. You were kind of just winging it. You were, you weren't, you were just kind of. of being safe or you were uh oh god you look like shit you you know there's all these different things that go through my head but if i'm good i could honestly in my head go all right let's let's get that on the real yeah i guess it's a version of that i think uh the first thing is is the movie good

because nobody wins i mean i guess i've been good in a bad movie million percent yeah nobody wins that the movie's not good if you're great in a bad movie it doesn't matter which we've i'm sure you and i both it's all i do no i'm kidding that's not true I've been there's look I no no but I know it's yes that's amazing

yeah no it's it's that's how every actor feels fuck it that's so true it's how every actor feels all the time if you're self-centered enough to do the job yeah

yeah I think the first thing is does the movie work and in this case I was like that's a real question mark because tonally I honestly don't think there's another film that's really like it they showed me the trailer

and I was like oh man I hope we pulled this off like because the trailer is really funny and fun and yeah and certainly i i think a bunch of people like agents i worked with were like i didn't know this was going to be so funny you know like but then when i saw it i went like because he gets there man like he really gets there with that film it's just he uses the humor humor is very seductive as you know i know every girl you've gone after you've got all those jokes michael so like it's the same thing with this film in a way it kind of like draws you in with humor but then it's such a

profound devastating ending I don't want to give anything away but it's like he's a brilliant director do you this is a stupid question you ready for it yeah

would you rather be amazing in a bad movie or really bad in a great movie boy that's tough because if you're bad everybody sees the movie

that's great that you're bad in I don't think that question exists because what I'm learning I felt this way I had a small part in interstellar and I really love the film interstellar that was the I had a kind of a thing a couple years ago where I said to not my agents now but my former agents like I just want to work with autors and I was really not in the place to say that but it was a decision I kind of looked at my bank account was like screw it I'm gonna be dead and it's about 40 years and what am I doing so I really made that statement and I think they were kind of like

he's pretentious or whatever you didn't care what they thought you want to work with great directors i think i really stated it like not like go get me great directors it's more like hey i'd rather just not work than do you know what i mean if it's if it's between not working or working with directors that i don't like really respect and i don't want to do it so the first one i did was this uh chris nolan movie which you know i couldn't respect anyone more than him and being on that set was like incredible here was my experience just bear with me because it's kind of a long story but this is really how I felt about it. Please.

Just edit the whole thing. No, I want to hear the story. Of course I want to hear the story. I had just gone to the Kubrick exhibit. And there's some crossover between kind of 2001 and her style. The Kubrick exhibit had, you know, the monolith. By the way, I touched it illegally, but I was just, I want to see if something happens. And I, the typewriter and it had.

I was there. I love it. Okay. The furniture from 2001, that red chair. You know what I'm talking about. Oh, yeah. We're going to the Pan Am ship. and there was a whole story about I mean you saw the level of research you did it was like uh you know Kubrick went and met with the greatest furniture builder and they spent two months saying what will furniture look like in the year 2001 and if there was space travel and there was just gravitational and so they designed this chair and I at the end of it I went oh yeah that's why that chair stands out it's not just like make a future looking chair it was like they spent about two months designing the chair just the chair just the chair.

And then when I was on Chris's set, I opened one of the pantries, and there was like creamed corn and popcorn. And that chair. And the chair was in there. And I said, oh, my getting he ripped off a mask and he was Kubrick. No, he, like, there was just a lot of corn products, corn puffs and pop, you know, stuff you'd pop in the microwave. And I was kind of like, because that house, they built the whole house that was out by that cornfield. I said, Chris, what's with all the corn? It was like in between takes

And he said, oh, I got with a futurist And we determined He'd done a very similar thing That like because of our reliance on corn syrup now In the future, in the near future We'll have only corn products And that doesn't play in the film That's what blew my mind

I mean it does in the way That the chair seeped into the film Into 2001 But it was like It informed the film In a like kind of I don't know It was beyond writing

It's like great authors get that deep in it's how I know I will never direct they get that deep into this you know so when you watch inception you know what I mean or you watch a Batman movie that he did every little thing has been thought out that much I was like oh I'm so glad I'm on this journey with like I want to work with people like this because it was mind blowing it was like inspiring kind just as an actor you and working with Spike was like that like he went into it that and so so answer your question in the longest way possible, I don't think

you can have a good part in a bad film because I think every time at least I was, you know, and I'm working with Sotaburg or Nolan or whoever, they take care of you. Because they're so into the, there is into your performance as they are into the, you know, creamed corn or whatever, right, exactly.

So. Good way to think about it. But I have, yeah, I understand that. But I, I don't, I agree with you to a point. I mean, it all depends on the director. You could have something that's really bad, right? You can make a bad movie and someone stands out because they're on their own. I've certainly seen that. They're on their own.

They have no direction. They're going to do what they think in their gut or their instinct. I still think it's hard, though, because if the movie's bad, it's like the director probably dropped the ball. It's such a dictatorship. That's what I've learned over 20 years in the industry. It would be a democracy. Trust me, if the studios could make it a democracy. It's such a dictatorship.

Do you go into, like, in a good way, by the way. I mean, a good way. It's a dictator. But with Spike Lee, like Christopher Nolan. Yeah. Soderberg. Do you ever, like, first take, get nervous? Do you ever, hey, I'm giving a speech as David Duke.

I'm playing this. Do you ever? I like have a thing where my first aunt said, I think my voice sounds weird to me. Like you feel like, I'm not talking a little hot. Am I not? Yeah. So you do feel something. Oh, come on.

There's nerves. What do you do for your nerves? That's the end of the whole podcast. So you do have feelings. Yeah. I mean, for sure. Of course you have feelings. You're a wonderful father.

I'm just so glad that over, that films aren't filmed in order. You know, like that whatever my least favorite scene is in the film I just did is like buried somewhere in the middle. So you're like, oh, it wasn't great, but, you know, overall I was really. Don't you think that's great? Yeah. You kind of get used to it. If it was filmed in order, I mean. I don't know.

I think there's part of me that would kind of like to go in order and all, you know. Well, that'll be interesting now as an experiment. I've heard they've done a couple films like that. And now I think I could maybe swing it. I still think my first day would be my worst. Do you know Pet Cemetery was filmed in order? Why? I don't know.

It's one of my favorite horror movies, but it was. It was filmed chronologically. I mean, it was filmed. Yeah, that's Stephen King movie. I don't know why. Bringing the cat back, you'd think it'd be better to not go in order. Let's go. They didn't do that.

So you do get nervous. I just, yeah. But, and how do you, you don't let anybody know that. Do you take anything? Do you drink? I just look in the mirror and I go, you got a kid. Do you ever do that? Do you do the Tim Roth from Reservoir Dogs?

You're so fucking cool. They don't know who you are. You're too fucking cool, man. What does he say? No, I do, what is it, boogie nights? It's like, you're a bright, bright shining star. I take out my penis, like in boogie nights. You play with it yourself.

I say you're a bright, bright, bright, shining star. Then I go on, instead I go, I'm ready to fuck. Do you do, do you do anything? What do you do to prepare? Like, what do you, what's going on in Tofer Grace's mind? Michael, how have we not work together? That's what I want to do. I want to work with you and figure out like, and now, you know, I'll answer all your

questions on the first day and be like, leave me the fuck alone. Like, why are you talking? No, I, I don't know. I mean, do you do those things like this who you fucking got this. You're here for a reason. You're dope for grace. No, no, no, God. You have a house to go to in the summer.

You can live in a bunk bed. You're fucking got this. You're fucking money. You want a karaoke contest in the basement. I want a karaoke contest. in 2003. God damn it. No, my thing is I think I really

tear myself up when I go home the first day. I'm an acclimator. I've learned that about myself over time. I acclimate to whatever the situation is. Almost every film I'm on by the end, I'm like, this is really great, regardless of what the beginning was, because I kind of find the...

That's kind of a little bit of our job, too. Yeah. So Klansman opens when? August 10th. For a film, that's the fastest I've ever had one come out because we just shot it but uh i think there was a feeling on set of like we got to get this out now did spike was he usually like one two three takes or did you do like 50 takes no no he was like two or three takes that's it yeah so was there ever a day where he's like uh you're not getting it same thing with nolan by the way nolan was like maybe maybe one take

i mean sometimes come on wait this guy is all about art he's all about the perfect picture he's all about the perfect story, the perfect acting. He gets the best performances, but maybe that's what you're going to tell me is everybody prepares so much that you're ready to go that it's why it's so fast. Because you don't fuck around. All I can tell you is from my point of view.

I can't pretend to know. I mean, Chris would keep a he doesn't monitor so you can walk up to. He's a little kind of like a phone, something the size of a phone, dangling around his neck. He'll kind of watch it and go like, okay, moving on. And I go, you know, this is an

iMacs but do you want to take another you know what i mean like look at that but oh my god his level of confidence in his crew in his crew in his actors i mean you're you feel like you're being brought through that movie with such a sure hand uh i think i mean i'm just projecting because i don't know why he does it i can't speak for him but i think it's because that momentum of that confidence is so it just builds as you go and you go we're just we're just now what it does for the actor is you are ready to go like in a way

I mean this is true on those Clinties with movies you know what I mean like you I worked with Clint did you and it was the same thing I did a okay my first movie was with him and I remember I did this like seven minute scene

with like Kevin Spacey and Jack Thompson and I was being Crocs as in by all these lawyers and um he doesn't even say action right he just said whenever it was more like this thing he's just

Michael are you ready just give me a nod and I kind of nod and he goes Jack Jack's his DP and he gave this that little thing that rolling thing with his hand and we just started filming and then like

we did one take and he goes had it feel meaning if you said not good he would have given you another take well I go I felt pretty good how did you think he goes it felt great maybe just on this one just acknowledged the jury and I think we got it

I go what just did a seven minute scene yeah just acknowledge the jury I remember him and Spacey got it Like, Spacey was pissing him off. And, like, Spacey would go, what do you want me to do? Well, I want you to walk up. I want you to sit in your seat. And then I want you to just look at the judge and just kind of try not to make eye contact.

No, so you just want me to sit there. Where do you want me to sit, Clint? And he goes, and it finally got to the point where Clint was like, God damn, it, just sit over it. You know, he's just like, they were kind of not, they didn't seem like they got a long grate. Well, look, I, I remember. on my first film on traffic Saddberg came from documentary filmmaking and that was the same thing

we did one or two takes tops and I'd never done a film so like he would I remember going up to him and saying after the first take like was that right like should I have stood there and he goes I don't know just walk away and what he was saying

I now realized I mean I was like 20 and I wanted direction but what he would have done I guess I mean if you're a documentary filmmaker and he shot it himself he held the camera It was all natural light. So I'm guessing that his feeling was kind of like, I don't want to get in the way of what these actors might do with any kind of direction

because then you can't kind of undo it, you know? So he just puts jump cuts whenever he wants. And I mean, I was like, remember thinking, it's funny, all of the great directors I've worked with kind of have that in common, which is they just understand casting really well. And then they really just kind of have very, quiet momentum they're just making the movie i was really impressed this is a little non sequitur but i was thinking about it i was like in terms of acting stuff that you've done i like to gain 24 pounds for a

role i i could like i'm we're skinny guys that was you know when i well well for me when i um when i eat a lot i'm skinny guy with a gut and a fat little fat face but that's kind of what happens to me even when i work out it's hard for me to gain weight i have like you know some back and shoulder stuff but it's hard to gain a lot of weight so I I remember when you were gaining weight and I was like god he's like as skinny as I am I bet he's going through fucking hell like how much were you eating and I would have been throwing up eating so much uh yeah you know I did throw up one you the worst was I finally got on some way spider man three right yeah and then I got sick and I and I was like it was like one of those stomach things where you're just throwing up all the time

and I was like crying by the toilet bowl like no I'm just throwing up all these muscles basically. And for me, you're right. I think I got up to, like... What I was saying is when I was doing that is I was working out twice a day, eating. You know, the eating is really the working out. And then I got all the way up to Christian Bale level in the machinist. Wow. But like, I don't know if you know the machinist. He was like nine pounds in that movie. But like, I wouldn't do it again because my body doesn't do it. I was thinking the fighter. The fighter would have been a good one. He was even skinnier.

No, he was skinnier. Maybe he was skinnier in the fighter, yeah. Yeah. But, uh, maybe that joke is dated, but that really worked in 2006 or whatever. A deadpan humor. You just still got it, boy. You really fooled me on that one. Who do you want to work with? Who else? Oh, gosh. Spielberg, of course. Yeah. Guillermo del Toro. Damien, is it Chazelle? I don't really have known how to pronounce the last name. I don't know. La Laland is my favorite film of like the last.

Do you want to sing in something, dance and sing? would you do something like that? Didn't you do Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor? That was like second grade or something. I only want to sing if it means that I'm winning a trophy over you. You're such a bitch. That's really what I mean, that makes me feel like I left here. By the way, never invited back.

That's not true. Rob never invited back for a concert. No, no, for a karaoke thing. Never invited back for a karaoke thing. Because you know what? You don't beat the host. Yeah, he still has them every week. Is that true?

No. No. You've known me for a long time. We don't hang out a lot. You know, the therapy session is this. Usually, I like to evaluate based on the interview, based on knowing someone, just saying something about my evaluation on you as a therapist. Then you turn around and just give me therapy. It could be quick.

It could be online. It could be whatever you want. But what I get from you. It's going to be like, you're fired. Fuck you, I quit. Exactly. No, what I gather is I wouldn't change a fucking thing. You're the first guest.

that I've actually said that to. I feel like you just got it going on. I mean, you get nervous. You get hard on yourself like everybody else, but being hard on yourself makes you who you are and make sure it's great. Give me an example of what you told other people. Like, what do you tell you? I'd say, you know, you've got to give yourself a break.

You got to stop working. You got to figure out who you are more. You know, there's been a lot of different. No, no. Right, right, right. There's just, it's all different for every person. Let me, I'm shaking my head. That's why he's react to it.

I have so much wrong with me. I'm such a well of problems and issues. I can't believe. What do you have wrong with you? You throw shit, you break dishes every once in a while. You're a good husband, you know, you... I knocked it over by accident, by the way. I wasn't throwing dishes at my child.

Okay, so you just defended the one thing I said. So, you know what? Yeah, fuck you, I quit. Fuck you, I quit. No, I think. That's very nice you to say. You know, you're catching me at a good time, right? But why do you want to be flawed?

Like, I wish I could sit there and go, no, you know what? Look, you are flawed. We're all flawed. We're no one's perfect. We get that. I'm saying that you don't have, like, problems with, your mother and father and this and you haven't gone to prison

and you haven't gotten divorced. This is going to be the most boring episode of this podcast ever. It's not true. Yeah, because I don't have any issues. Let me think of something. Let me think of something. Oh, yeah. You just jumped into Michael J. Fox inadvertently. You just looked like in for a second.

You were kind of like doing the home. I'll tell you my problem. My problem is, Dad, like having a like a sit, it's a prom, okay? That's a problem. I'm a wolf, dad. I'm a wolf. I wish you could see his mannerisms. Yeah, no, I, you know, yeah, yeah, I am aware that I'm boring.

But I will tell you, I only recently have become not embarrassed of that. I would actually say one of my biggest problems when I was younger, probably when I was hanging out with you, is I was, you know, because you want to be more exciting. And, you know, I hadn't met my wife. So you go, am I too boring for another human, basically? But, like, I now look back and I go, oh, I, you know, like, you know, like, I, you know, like, I, you know, like, hope for my kid and you know what I mean that there is boring as I was and that there is you know it's respectful and you're not boring it's just like you look back and like hey my dad was a respectful guy like I've done stupid things like I do stupid shit I I you know I'm a child but you know I saw

Spielberg documentary and he said it's okay to be immature as long as you're responsible and fuck yes Spielberg because that's who I think I am I think I'm immature as fuck but I think I'm very responsible I would actually say I would turn around and say to you that would be my diagnosis for you for sure what exactly what you said I'm a mature as fuck but um yeah well immature in a way that's I mean we're sitting in a room with a lot of DVDs and you know a lot of star wars posters yeah it's cool I mean like you know you got a drum set like it's cool it's great yeah I know I like this room and I like you know the the times I've had with you and I think and they're like uh irresponsible to the wrong word it's like immature wouldn't be the right word but they're like uh fun and

spontaneous and you know and you're responsible so it's fine yeah all right i'm gonna read some final questions from some fans and then uh i'm gonna let you go ask him if you thinks you could take tom hardy in a venom fight robert mGM ninja mj ninja that's kind of weird question uh robert thank you for your question um obviously no that's um hardy is jacked and he looks like he's intense Let me just say, by the way, that I was a huge fan of the character of Venom when I was a kid, when Todd McFarlane started and brought him into the comic book. Yeah, I was a huge fan of it. And I was surprised and a little bit like, huh, when they wanted me to play it.

So when I look at it now, I go, in the movie that's coming out, I go, like, that's the guy. I mean, in terms of what I think the guy, how the guy should be played and who should play it. Fair. You know, this is the last question. Devon James, ask for your best Tom. Tommy Chong story? Oh, yeah. How does that origin?

Oh, because he was on the show? Oh, he was on 70s, yeah. Come on, was he ever high doing the show? Are you kidding? Like, I think, was he ever not high? I used to do a good Tommy Chong Cheech and Chong impression. Let's hear it. Hey, man, how am I driving?

Hey, group park, man. All right, that's good. We've heard enough of that. All right, thanks. I think, yeah, no, Tommy was really cool. Like, did not disappoint for what you wanted to be. and it was, like, such a perfect. He came in, like, I think, the second season of our show,

and he was, like, just great. The things I know, by the way, he went to jail and got out and then came back on the show during the run of the show. And... Do you know his lines always? It was... Challenging. Pretty good. It was pretty good.

Okay. It was not, you know... Hey, what was that line, man? Oh, my God. That was, like, a deja vu. But it wasn't anything that was, you know, you know, you were those people where it affects the thing, like... Yeah.

It didn't affect it. And he, one time, he made bongs. This is all, like, way more interesting in the early 2000s because it was, like, totally illegal in L.A., whereas now it's, like, you know, legal, basically. But he made these glass bongs. I said, how is that legal to make? And he said, oh, water pipes are legal, but, like, just marijuana is illegal. I said, okay. And I said, this beautiful glasswork or something, I don't know, I commented on it.

And he came in and he made me. I still have it. And so I would say he's one of my, like, prize possessions because it's like getting, you know, like a penny from Abraham Lincoln. Do you know what I mean? Like you're going to get a pair getting a bong from Tommy Chong? Yeah, dude. A glass handcrafted bong? Did he sign it?

Yeah. It said like to Eric from Leo, who's his character's name. And he was such a wonderful guy. The other story is when he had left and gone to prison for a while, he, uh, he, uh, he, uh, he, uh, he was. Oh, forgive me. One of the, an actress who was, um, Mo Gaffney, who was on our show, who was great, had moved into his dressing room and, uh, her daughter was there or something. I might be getting the story kind of wrong, but I think her daughter was like,

Mommy, what is this? And opened her hands and it was just like, just buds and buds and buds of marijuana. It's just, oh my God. I guess, uh, the previous tenant, uh, was Tommy Chong. Well, look, this has been a real treat. We don't get to catch up. You're a busy man. Your dad,

you're a husband. This is the most social time. How much time was that? That's it. An hour and 20? Okay, that was the most social. Do you not do a podcast? No,

I'm happy to do them. I'm just saying I, you know, it's rare to do anything with a friend and then to be able to sit and chill. It was easy, right? It was a piece of cake. But also,

it's fun. But I'm also saying this is like, you know, I'm looking after my daughter most of the time. So this is like a nice way to kind of, it's kind of work. It's more work,

but, you know, it's good clansman's out in august what else you got going on real quick uh i did a movie that i just came off of with christie metts that'll come out in the spring what's that called uh it's called breakthrough breakthrough very good and uh what's your twitter handle all that stuff at tofer grace that's it yeah look me up and uh you shoot me a note follow to per grace dude i'm not really that active on social media you're not you're not that active but look this is uh it was really fun thank you for allowing to be inside of you today Football season is here.

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