Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Ep 24: Michael Rooker

Episode Date: September 18, 2018

Michael Rooker (Walking Dead, Guardians of the Galaxy, Cliffhanger) discusses his childhood - how he got paddled in 1st grade and refused to speak the rest of the year, how he’d get run over by his cousins on their bikes, and how he realized acting was the creative outlet his artistry needed. Rooker tells me about blacking out all his mirrors as he went method for a role, how he almost didn’t get the role on the Walking Dead over a dispute with a producer, and how his cousins used to hit each other with rattlesnake whips. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. This week's guest is, uh, he'd like to be called this a badass. Rob, would you call Michael Rooker a badass? Yeah, he was a pretty tough guy. You pulled a knife out at the end of, uh, he had a knife on the podcast. He didn't whip it out right away. So much shit happens in this podcast. We learned so much about this guy.

I think at first he was a little bit, we know each other, but he was a little bit like, eh, what's this going to be about? And we went everywhere. And I think I became a little bit of his therapist today as he became mine. That always happens with guests. But you know him as Merle from The Walking Dead. Yandu from Guardians of the Galaxy. We worked together.

I was Martin X. I'm going to have to throw that out there. Or how about Marcus Wexler from TNT's hit TV show, Las Vegas. Did you watch that, Rob? I've seen a little bit of that. You're a liar. We talk about how crazy he was as a kid, how he played chicken with a knife in his feet. getting paddled by his teacher in the first grade

knocking himself out with a steel pipe it was the only time he was ever knocked out and breaking every vertebra in his neck and his huge threshold for pain inside of you is brought to you by policy genius what's policy genius Michael well let me just inform you that September the month that we're in right now Rob

it is national life insurance awareness month most people aren't even aware of that like you I had no idea they have months for everything now Oh, well, heck, yeah, they do. But I think life insurance is probably one of the most important things, don't you? I would say, like, Black History Month's pretty important. Well, that's, yes, that's true. But I think people's health and insurance is also up there.

It's up there. It's below Black History Month. We can agree with that. Okay. In fact, most people aren't aware they need life insurance, Rob. 40% of people don't have it, which is kind of sad, isn't it? I don't have life insurance. You really don't.

I don't. You don't pay me enough to get life insurance. Well, you're going to make money eventually if people listen to this podcast. Yeah. Now, life insurance doesn't need to be difficult or expensive, Rob. Right now, prices are the lowest they've been in 20 years, which is hard to believe. 20 years. Policy genius has made it easier than ever to get covered.

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Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. For some reason, your voice is grating. Some people's voices are grating. Really? Yeah, my voice is grating, too. This is just me and you talking. No one gives a shit. No one gives a shit.

Do you need, you want to move that around here? Let me move that one. I'm going to move this. Over to this side here. Oh, my God. You know, you don't need anybody. You could just, Michael Rooker, you could just do everything yourself. Yeah, do I do it all myself.

You don't need, like, a PA. I don't like people helping me. I'm like a three-year-old. I'm like a four-year-old. I can do it. You know, I can put on a button. I know how to thread a needle. I can put on a button.

I can stitch something that's a seam or something like that. Can you change the oil? in your car? I can change the oil in my car. Do you ride a motorcycle? I do. Really? Yeah. You're a badass. No, I think motorcycle writing is stupid. I think it is too. You know why I think it's stupid? Because it's not stupid. It's not stupid in that, don't get me wrong. I don't want to tell it. I don't say everybody who rides a motorcycle, stupid, but cars don't look at it. They don't see you. It's not you that's stupid. It's the people around you that are stupid. And our laws out here in California, especially in California, I think. I'm a firm believer in loud mufflers save lives.

Really? Yeah, well, yeah, you hear the bike before you see it. Is that why you have such shitty hearing? We just talked about this. Probably. No, actually, my hearing's due to medical operations when I was a kid. Really? I feel like an asshole bringing that up. At about three of them when I was a young. How old? From 13 to 17, I had three operations. So you don't like crowded places and people talking like that? You're right? rather be like sort of like an intimate situation yeah yeah so these comic cons are not easy for you

all the time the comic cons are not easy especially in the noisy when I'm out in the mist of all the like the panel on the panel no the panels are fine panels are fine you just went to Tokyo I'm going you're going to Tokyo you've been there a week after next you've been there I think yeah I've been there I was I was there maybe three years ago you did a panel there I did a com con there a small one and it was really nice. I ended up getting my dog there. How do you feel about Comic-Con's? Wait, you brought your dog there?

Yeah, I bought a dog there. I bought a Shiba-I-Nu. Shiba-I-Nu. And I brought him, I couldn't bring him back right away, so my friend Minu kept him for about two weeks until all the paperwork cleared, and then he brought him back when he came to L.A. to do business. So he dropped him off for me.

Do you like Comic-Con? I do, yeah. How many have you done, you'd say? I've done a lot. When did you start doing that? Well, no, I started them way before The Walking Dead. I started them after Henry. I did a few horror conventions, stuff like that.

And they weren't that big then, huh? They weren't that big then. But they were still okay. I didn't like the flea market atmosphere because I grew up going to flea markets and stuff like that. And so it just brought back memories and stuff. Right, it just kind of was too much? Too much, too many people, too much.

you know just sweat and hot and it's just like oh god and you have to be on the whole time right and i've talked to talk to other uh guests about this that's i don't i don't mind that i don't i'm you're really good with people i've noticed so i'm just on so i'm just on is that exhausting because it is for me i'm always on and i'm exhausted it is exhausting and uh i don't mind being on i'm i'm like i said i'm always kind of on it there's no there's no off switch unless i unless I choose to turn off. Is it something you've had since you were a kid? You were always on.

You're always this guy that just had to be going. And you just said, okay, this is who I am and this is what I'm doing. I'm not going to try and stop this. I'm not going to try and. Because my therapist is always telling me, you don't always have to be the center of attention. You always have to make people laugh.

I go, the being is boring. It's not. You're not boring. Thank you, Michael. You know, I've noticed you when you're quiet sometimes. Yeah. And you're not that boring. Do you hear that?

What is that? Oh, did he lean against it? My producer Rob was taking pictures, and he just leaned against the fire alarm, and he set it off. So there's a chance a fire truck could come right now. They're probably going to call my house, and it's going to disrupt this interview. That's a great system, though. That's okay. Yeah, well, you want when you press the fire alarm, you want fire trucks to come.

You know, but when the fire alarm's going on, last thing you want to do is answer the phone. Are you serious? Yeah, that's true. The fire alarm's going on. they want you to answer the phone and say oh by the way do you have a fire no bitch I don't have a fire the house is burned down

get your ass over here now the last thing you want to do is answer the phone you want to get out you know right oh he didn't answer the phone I want it maybe he doesn't have a fire but if you don't answer it oh maybe you know he didn't answer it you don't think they'll call you have to answer for some reason no no no if you don't answer the call

the fire alarm goes off if you don't answer the call that either means you're dead already or you don't have a fire. If the fire trucks come halfway... You're not home. You're out doing something. If the fire trucks come halfway through this interview,

I think is it going to, A, ruin the interview, B, make it more interesting. Good God, no. It makes the interview way better. Right? Yeah, way, way, way better. Stay tuned, folks. This could be a real interesting thing.

That fire alarm is perfect. Maybe this is what just happens from Michael Rooker's sounds. We were just talking about how calm and serene you are. And then the fire alarm hit. As a human being and then the fire alarm. Yeah, thanks. He was about to compliment me on my being,

me being, myself is cool Rob and what do you do you fuck it up you set the fire alarm off you know I discovered I was I was I was cool when I was quiet as well I don't stay quiet too often but when I'm quiet here's the weird thing though rook I've been out years ago and I'm out and I'm just like I don't know if I'm in a great mood or I'm just like you know a little sullen if you will or won't yeah and you know the people I attract like a girl like oh he's quiet he's and then if she likes me then she's not going to really like me later on because she's going to realize

you're a little jabber mouth right she's like oh I thought he was cool quiet guy not only you're a jabber mouth but you talk dirty you like talking dirty just to get attention you talk dirty you do too you talk more than you you talk oh well poopie talk like crap poopy and farting talk and stuff like that like a 12 year old kid well here's a thing

doing that kind of talk just because you can Rook I had arrested development as a child listen a minute ago How do you feel about it? You went to the bathroom a few minutes ago. Yes. So how do you feel about that? I feel fine.

Yeah. Well, I don't know. I go, you're on your way to the shitter. How often do you do therapy? I said, you're on your way to the shitter. And you said, I don't like. Who's doing this interview? You go, I don't like that talk.

I don't like shitter talk. I go, what do you mean? I don't like talking about when I'm going to the shitter. It's a weird thing. Yeah, I don't even call it that. When I go, when I go to a bathroom, I like to be quiet. I you know when you you know you go you can either you can aim to make noise or you can be quiet I'm a quiet I'm a quiet pisser do you want anyone to know you went to the bathroom I like to

keep my body functions to myself usually I I want to make an announcement here's my theory I've said this before if if you're going to make me laugh and we're going to have a good time here that's bullshit yeah okay if I'm going to the shitter if I'm going to the bathroom and I have to take a dump See, he's starting already. He's starting already. No, I'm just telling you how I feel. We're talking about serene, cool. You don't want to go after it.

You don't want to talk about that. You know, you're uncomfortable about the shit or talk. I am. I do. I do not like talking about stuff like that. I was just saying that I like to announce it so there's no secret. So people aren't going, where is he? What is he doing?

We don't need. That's too much information. Is it? Yeah. Do you not like farts? Well, I don't like yours. Okay. Good enough.

Michael Rooker, not to be confused with Michael Angelo Rooker. You know who that is? I do. He's a famous British painter and expressionists. Have you seen his work? No. The only reason I... It's amazing.

Would you known that name if you weren't named Michael Rooker and happened to see his name pop up and then go, oh, who the fuck is this guy? Well, I knew his name from a long time past. You know, I have friends that do this genealogy stuff. Right. So they were all wondering if this Michael Angelo, Rooker was related or any of those any of his offspring or anything like that. Michael Rooker, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you

today, by the way. Thanks for being here. I didn't even say that. We've gotten to a conversation. Is that what you say? Well, it's inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. So I'm happy for you allowing me to be inside of you. Even that name brings up really negative images in my mind. For you? Yes. Well, let's get there. No, I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back. No, I don't want you inside me. Ladies and gentlemen, we were going back.

to Jasper, Alabama. No, don't want you inside me. We got to go. What the hell? You got Rob Laughy's going to hit the fire alarm again. Fucking guy. Oh, my God. So what was the dirt that gun brought up?

I'll tell you. Well, we can get to that, but I... Oh, you want to go. You do your thing. No, no, I don't mind. No, no, I'm not doing this interview. You are. It doesn't matter.

I'll do my own. Okay, hey, I want to do one, too. Yeah, okay. Produce his one. I produced mine, too. He's already producing my friend, dad. This is called Michael Rozier bomb inside of you. Mine would be called like...

No shit with Michael Rooker. No, no, no, no poopie talk with Michael Rooker. No, poopie talk. Twinkle, no, twinkle talk. Twinkle talk with Michael Rooker. Because you did say I'm going to go twinkle. No, you said, are you going to go tinkle? You said tinkle, not twinkle.

Oh, twinkle. You said tinkle. Twinkle would be the wrong word. Did your twinkle is no. Twinkle. Tingling is different than tingling. James Gunn, he said to ask you about the time you knocked yourself out. Now, now I just, that is, that's not real dirt, but that's, I mean, it's not real dirt, but you knocked yourself up.

I did. It was the only time you've ever been knocked out. Is that true? I've been hit over the head, but I haven't been knocked actually. By someone? I haven't actually, yes, I haven't been actually knocked out. But you were knocked out here? I totally, the only time in my life I've ever been knocked out was when I knocked myself.

And how'd you do it? Just briefly. Briefly, I was cleaning the new property that I had purchased. Okay. So this was as an adult. This is recently. This was recent. Maybe about maybe 11, 12 years ago.

Okay, so it took to your 50 years old around before you knocked yourself. Yeah, yeah. And so I'm just cleaning. And I'm almost there, almost done. I see the last pipe. Go grab this pipe. and I fling it into the dumpster. I woke up sitting on my ass with my hands like this and my head like that.

Just the fronty on your knees, head down. I was on a hillside. Blood? And I was literally, I was on a hillside. I was on it. And I was actually sitting on one of the stairs. And I was just sitting there like this. But I was completely out.

So the pipe came back and must have come back and hitching the head. Well, I woke up, I didn't know who I was, I didn't know where I was, I didn't know why I was there, and of course, after a few seconds, maybe 30, 20 seconds, 30 seconds, things started coming back, and I started looking for the pipe, and the pipe was still almost where I left it. And I'm like, wait a minute, I threw that pipe. and but it's still I went to pick up the pipe and I realized that the pipe had an elbow on it

so when I flung the pipe it caught the back of my head and knocked me completely completely I don't know how long I was out still don't know how long I was in it concussion did you go to the hospital I won't eventually yeah because I felt fine

did you piss yourself or anything like that no nothing just knocked out just knocked out just knocked out and I felt fine, and I had ordered, I had ordered a rifle from my friends in North Carolina. So they do the rifles for the Marine Corps snipers and Marine Corps. They do all the specialty rifles. And so I ordered this great precision rifle, and I like shooting long distance and stuff like that. And it's very relaxing, very calming, and I was not about to allow them to send it UPS.

So I said, no, no, no, no, no. I'm going to drive. So I just find out, after I'd hit my head, okay, I found out like two days later, three days later, that the rifle's ready. So I'm getting my car, I'm going to go. Put shit in my cooler. I'm ready to get on the road.

So I go. I drive to North Carolina to get my rifle and bring it back. Maybe a quarter of the way through the first night. I'm looking over my left shoulder. getting on the freeway, check my right shoulder. When I go to check my right shoulder, I can't turn my head. My head will turn maybe a quarter, a third turn. I can't do this.

Boomerang pipe. Right? I can't do that. And I'm like, why can't I turn my head? I didn't even realize why I couldn't turn my head until I was like, the pipe. So I got to North Carolina. I got there, you know, asked guys. they're a good chiropractor in town. So I went and the lady would not touch me. She said,

no, no, no, no. Time out. You got to go get an x-ray, get an MRI, see your doctor when you get back home, but I can't do anything. So I drove all the way back to L.A. You're not being able to turn my head. And when I got back, I went, got the MRI, got the x-ray. The guy called me and he's like, are you sitting down? I said, what do you? oh hi what's up he says dude you you've broken every vertebra in your neck get out of man are you serious get out of here yeah every vertebra every vertebra in my neck is it vertebra or every vertebra every little neck bone has been broken and I'm like no no no no this is impossible I'm looking at it now dude every vertebra you got to

get back in here call your doctor I'll get the x-rays and everything over him and so that's what I did called my doctor he called me back and said you need to come in right away so I get in the car and I go to the doctor

and he says get in here come here and he's all serious he says first off let me tell you one thing you're an idiot duh yeah secondly you don't have a broken neck there are not any broken vertebra that's good i have never seen this ever in my life i've only seen this in books i'm like seen what

come and look at this he showed me the MRI the x-ray he says see that see that little turn every vertebra in my neck and probably in my spine has a hook on it and it's an odd thing but the doctor had never seen it before it's just one of those things that's sort of it's it's in my genetic makeup right so what happened I mean were you did you have to have surgeries and things like no no not at all that's just the way my that's just the way it was that's the way my bones are you know some people have like bone spurs and their heels I have a big occipital bone. You know what that is?

The backbone there? It's a big protrusion. Okay. It's like a matrix attachment. Done and done. See, that's what? That's unnatural. Some people have certain, the certain bone structures are made, you know, it's just the way,

it's just the way I was born. What was it like growing up in Jasper? It was great. Really? You remember enjoyable times. I remember enjoying it and having fun and climbing trees and having a good time. What were your parents on? I don't remember, I remember being,

hungry a lot. You remember being hungry. Yeah, we were hungry. A lot of money and not a lot of food. Did I have a job? No. Dad was Dad was driving trucks somewhere and God knows where. So, and they... What was his name? Charles. Charles. That was my grandpa's name. Charles and your mom? Hazel. Hazel. Charles and the Hazel. And they were good parents? Your dad was gone a lot. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if my dad was a good parent or not. He was never around. Right. So my mom was, my mom was, she made dude. So you had to make sure you got your education, make sure you were fed, clothed.

I sort of grew up in a single-family household. You had a sister. Before they were even divorced. They eventually got divorced. Right. But, you know, I hardly ever saw them. And you had a sister? I got five sisters.

You have five sisters. Yeah. Five sisters, two half-brothers. And one brother that had passed when I was only like maybe one and a half two. And your mom took care of all these kids? dude yeah how did she do that i mean what was it like i mean do you remember i have no idea how she did it it was impossible was she disciplined i mean did she discipline you guys she was not very disciplined she wasn't she didn't get spanked she was not very disciplined no she was not as not a disciplinary

you know she she she didn't do a lot of spanking a lot of that i don't even ever i hardly ever remember being spanked except for by my aunts or uncles that would chase me down with like switches They'd grab a switch off the tree, and I don't remember all this. This stuff is like, I've kind of blocked out. Me and my cousins must have been so bad. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money. Period.

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Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. I mean, we were, we were like, a little animal. Do you think something traumatic happened, Brooker, that you just don't remember things? Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah. Do you think there's some, like, most likely. Yeah, because usually you black things out and I don't remember that. I had, there's a little, a couple things when I was really young, maybe I don't remember.

But I remember for the most part, everything. There was something that was repressed, something that I, you know, didn't remember. And I came out like years ago, but there's probably some stuff. How did you, how did you remember it? Cognitive behavioral therapy, I think. I mean, uh, you know, uh, uh, you know, uh, um, um, um, you know, uh, um, um, um, um, um, uh, uh, I go to a therapist and he starts talking about something. I'm like, oh, my gosh.

And I remember something. I go, does that make me weird? He's like, no, you were five years old or six years old. It's not your fault. Blah, blah, blah. Things happen. So do you think, look, you're a tough guy. You were kind of doing your own thing at a young age.

That's right, doctor. But I'm just saying that maybe there was something that happened along the way. There's probably a lot of things that happened along the way. You kidding me? And do you choose, fuck it. I'm too big for a therapist. I don't need to know that shit. I don't need to fix anything.

My life is good. I don't need to bring shit out now. You know what? There are some reasons why there are some things you don't need to remember. Why? Because that's why you've forgotten them in the first place. But do you think it comes out in different ways? Sometimes it's good that you don't remember certain things.

But do you think... Tragic things. Your mind will not allow you to remember certain tragic things for your own well-being. So you keep dragging these things up and making them all fresh again. Why would you want to do that? That is absolutely a valid point, Michael. Well, you know, I mean, it makes a lot of people a lot of money. Let me tell.

That's why you have to remember. Oh, you must remember this. Why, right? Why do you have to remember? I don't give a shit. I think sometimes because you're doing things in life and you're acting out a certain way, maybe, and they're because. Well, it manifests in other ways in your personal life. probably. And if your personal life is out of control and you're doing things probably that are

unhealthy for you. Right. Then maybe you have to go and speak with someone and try to figure out why. And sometimes when you figure out why, it's because of something that's occurred in the past, right? Yeah. Right. That's what the theory is. Well, you didn't have a father figure really maybe if you're an asshole in real life right now you've got to try to figure out why you're why you're an asshole yeah you know right yeah i mean because not you're not supposed to be yeah i think people are meant to be kind and gentle to one of and if you feel you're doing that there's no reason to bring up things in the past you can be too kind and gentle maybe right you know maybe don't stand up for yourself you don't stand up for uh uh maybe people put in front of you

in line all the time and you just let them do it i think you have a point I've never thought of it that way. No. Like, you know, if life's going okay and you have some stress... You're successful. Stress is important in your life. You need to work through stress. So why bring old shit up if it's going to make things worse?

Definitely if it's going to make you stressless. Stress more. Are stressless. Oh, stressless. Like you're restless. No, no. If you're absent of stress. Oh, yeah, that's the first thing I said.

So if you're absent. Absent of stress, then you might be a more calmer, maybe more understanding, sensitive person. Rob, are you stressless? No, I've quite a bit of stress. You're only 28. None of us are stressless. 29. He has a child.

He's 29 years old. No one is stressed. Maybe Jesus Christ was stressless. I don't know. He had a lot of things to do. I mean, he had to sacrifice a lot. That's right. He did.

That's a lot of stress. when you're sacrificing yourself for a lot of people, if that's what you believe or not. Because he's stressless. He has plenty room. Plenty room. Yes. Your father's truck driving.

Plenty room to take on your stress. Your mom's cooking around. Michael Rooker's walking around barefoot in first grade. He's like going to school. Were you acting up in school? Were you doing things? Oh, I was always acting up. I was constantly acting.

You remember that. Oh, my God. Yeah, I was just a little rat. Dude, I was just... Did you get in fights? I was so... Well, I got in a lot of fights, yeah. As a young boy, to what age?

I got a lot in fights. Really? I got in a lot of fights. And was it your mouth that got you in trouble? No, no, no, not at all. What was it? Sticking up for your five sisters? What didn't you like?

I don't really remember getting into a lot of trouble. There are times when the aunts and uncles are talking about how you were when you're a kid. Right. When they talk about it. That's always worse. Obviously, we were bad. You're bad. We were really bad.

And I don't remember being really bad. I remember just having fun. And that's what kids are. Kids are meant to have fun. And their fun might be bad for the adults looking on, but they're having a blast. Yeah. I got paddled as a child. Did you get paddle?

Oh, yeah. I got paddled all right. I got paddled in first grade. Mrs. Ebley paddled me. First day of first. First day of first grade, so that had to be mortifying. It was. makes perfect sense on a therapeutic level yes i had self-imposed mutism

what is that so you're quiet you don't say you don't speak i did not speak i did not participate i did not do anything constructive in my very first year of first grade because of several paddlings that i had gotten for something that had happened isn't something is it amazing what that can do to a child it totally i was petrified I was a psychologically mentally verbally petrified. I couldn't talk. I was very stubborn little kid and I would not participate after they had done that to me. I remember I was in fifth grade and I was not a bright kid.

I just, I had attention deficit disorder, which they didn't discover back then. They didn't know what that was. So I was just, he's loud. He doesn't stop talking. He doesn't have an attention span of a fruit fly. And I'm in Mrs. I'm not going to say her name, Mrs. Ebly. But this is true even now.

Yeah. Well, yeah, yes, but I'm in the class, and I don't know the answers to the test. And Mrs. Ebly leaves the room. And I remember going, I remember walking up to the, with my test paper and go, like, I go, E, C, B, A, D, E, F, B, C, like, reading my answers off because they're all wrong, obviously. Yeah. And I put the paper in. Mrs. Ebly walks in about 20 seconds ago.

Was someone talking, and I remember this kid raises his hand. I'm not going to say his name, Jason Dix. And he says, Rosenbaum was giving his test answer. And I go, what? And she goes, Rosenmom, I'm out in the hall right now. And she comes out there and she goes, go get Mr. Figgly's paddle. She made me knock on Mr. Figgly's door. To get the paddle.

Yeah, of course. And I knocked on the door, and he got the paddle in front of the whole class. And they went, ooh, and I went outside. Mr. Figgily didn't paddle me. But Mrs. Ebly sit there and she said, did you cheat? I go, no, I did not. I don't know any of the answers. Look at my test.

I'm an idiot. No one wants my answers. What grade was this? Fifth, fourth. Fourth grade. Yeah, fourth grade. And so she goes, listen. either tell the truth and say you cheated

or Mr. Fickley's going to paddle you and I looked at him and he's much larger than her so I said I cheated and she bent over and I can remember seeing this girl I was looking through the classroom door as I'm bent over so you get bent over they go bend over and I look and I remember lifting my head up

and my vantage point I could see like a few people like leaning their heads over out the door watching me get just nailed Oh dude our school our school had every class had a paddle Every class had a paddle And, and folks got paddled all the time.

Yeah, I remember this one kid, Bruce Holder, he's dead now, so I'll say his name. Bruce Holder, he was going to get paddled, and he was so scared. You remember kids' name? Yes, he got, he fainted. He fainted, he got so scared. They took him to the principal. Before the paddling. They took him to the principal's office.

They called his mother and said, did he get on to the paddling? They said, Bruce did something like this. I don't know, he did something bad. And we were about to paddle him and he passed out. And his mom says, well, when he wakes up, you paddle his ass. And they did. So let me ask you this. Are you playing sports as a kid?

When did you get into acting? When did you start figuring out, hey, this kind of looks fun? That's a lot of questions. All right, well, try to pick one. Choose one. Answer wisely. I did all of the above. I played sports.

When I played, I was always the winner. Very competitive. No. I just liked winning. Okay. You know, is that competitive? It's probably part of it. Yeah, that's probably, you know, I just like being first.

I like jumping the highest. I like running the fastest. I like when we play chicken with the knife, barefoot, by the way. I always like being the person that gets it to like an inch and still throwing it. You know, I, yeah. You take chances. Probably stupid chances. I just...

You like being a leader. I did not think that it would be a bad thing if I had missed. Really? You didn't think playing chicken with your feet? Yeah. If you missed with a knife. Yeah, it'd just go through your skin. It'd be okay.

It'd be okay. Wow. That's why I won all the time. Everybody was like, no, no, that's it. That's it for me. You're kind of like that today in a lot of ways. You kind of just don't give a shit in a lot of ways. Yeah, that's true.

I mean, me and my cousin used to play chicken with our stingery bikes. Like, I would stand in the middle of the road, and he would ride his bike as hard as he could. I would do mine first, and he would jump out of the way. Then I, you know, we'd switch. And I would not move. And he'd hit you. He would run over me. And did it hurt?

He did not hurt a bit. He would literally run right over my. I remember his tires. I remember his tires going straight up my body and over my face. Over your balls? Didn't bother me. The balls would have. bothered me. At least were a cup.

Didn't bother me. You didn't think it. Didn't bother. You're just like, see, now I'm going to go back to the therapy thing. There's got to be something there, Rook. There's got to be something that happened young where you're just like, come and get me. Like the kid who's just like, I don't fucking care. Oh, I love, I, when I was a kid,

I much preferred fighting 10 people as opposed to one guy. Really? Yeah, one guy was way too easy. One or two guys, way, way too easy. I wanted to fight more I wanted to fight the whole group. Do you have any idea what that is?

What that was? I have no idea. You still don't know what that is. I don't know what it is, but it makes you unfearful of life. Physical combat and or life. You, if there's something you want to do, you just go and do it. Nothing scares you. Honestly, does anything scare you?

A lot of things scared me as a kid. You know, but I mean You know I mean you have a tire going over your ball sack But that stuff never scared me That physical pain never scared you No And you have a huge threshold for pain

I do You can get punched in the face Five times and you're still okay Unfortunately a lot of people think Getting punched in the face Is like the worst thing that could ever happen But getting punched in the face doesn't hurt Right you know

The boxing, punching physical combat stuff like that it's not such a big deal when did you first get in acting let's just jump into that when did you're doing all the sports you're competitive you're doing all these

don't take me wrong though let me let me continue I I'm not an instigator I don't cause fights or I do not want to fight right but because of my experiences

growing up I can tell you right now it's not such a big deal. It's not going to, you're not going to get hurt in a, in a one-on-one fist fight. It's not such a big deal. You may get your nose broken a couple of times, but, you know, during the process, it doesn't, it doesn't really hurt. I don't think Rob. You can get punched in the face and it really, I've been punched in the face. I've been punched. I've had that. See, it doesn't hurt that much. You know what it is? It's a shocker. It's like you're just the, I think your brain,

your brain instantly sends those endorphins. Right. It's like getting a broken leg. I've never had it's numbing it's numbing but you would you you may hear the snap but it's not going to hurt that much Rob you ever been in a fight I'm in like elementary school okay that doesn't count um let's go in those are the ones that are beautiful those are the ones that do those are innocent they're so much fun right you know they can be fun right and there you have a little dispute and you settle it on the playground I was kicked in the balls as a child oh I was too a girl kicked me in the balls and I rolled down a hill at a at a high school football game I rolled down the hill and I had to walk three miles home

because I was crying in so much pain. Yeah. Girl kept me for no reason, really. Oh, just to see it. I didn't laugh at her crying or anything, Mike. Yeah, yeah. I didn't do it. Yeah.

All right, so in high school, you're playing sports, you're doing all this, you're competitive, you're having fun. So what's the first time you acted? When did you get that bug? I was in my early 20s. Early 20s before you did a play. Yeah, I was late bloomer. No, I did a walk-on thing in high school

because I was dating a girl and she asked if I was, I would, if I would do this role. What role, what role was it? Do you remember the play? It was, the play was, and he gets your gun. And he gets your gun. And I was like, one of the, the, one of the farmer guys.

And I had like two words or something like that. You remember the words? I don't remember. I didn't remember them at the time. My God, I certainly don't remember him now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So from that, you were like, holy shit, man. It was kind of a joke.

No, from that, I'm like, forget it. I never would, I would never want to do this. So then how'd you get back into it? I think I've always been an artist and my creativity just needed to find the medium that my creativity can express itself

and I can be satisfied because all the other art forms that I've tried are not as satisfying as acting. Did it feel like for me being someone else was more fun than being yourself or were you kind of, that wasn't it? No, that wasn't it.

You just felt like it was an outlet for your expression. It was an outlet for my creative needs as an artist. And so being an actor was probably the most challenging thing I could think of doing. And I knew friends who were actors

and it looked really difficult. My friends were really bad. I think most of them were really bad. There were probably one or two that were really good, and I just didn't know what, you know, but most of it was, you know, it was the plays and the things that I saw them do. I was like, you could do this better. Well, I always thought if I couldn't do it any better, I wouldn't do it.

That's a good point. So I decided, you know what, I can talk the big talk, but unless I go and try it, I'm never going to know. So that sort of got me into, I took some courses, I took some literary classes and some scriptural classes and I was really good at that. And then I decided to, you know, in those classes, you would get up and reenact some of the scenes and stuff like that. And I found that I was actually good at the scriptural work. And I was, it was okay. It was very cool. But I got more satisfaction and i was more creative much more creative when i was physical i've always been very

creative physically so i'm the kind of guy that can see something being done and i can step in and do the same thing do you feel like when you're acting you feel better than after it's done and you see it are you do like the process of doing it more than the post-pros you know after it's done and the movie's done or you watch it or a play it's a little both i think I get a feeling of satisfaction and reward as I'm doing it. Do you ever walk through it, like, almost like sometimes where it's like, you're just like, I don't care? I prefer not walking through it.

I prefer having it be created instantaneously. Do you ever know when you're doing something shitty? I'm just like, this is going to suck and I'm not going to give it my own. Yes, of course. I know when I'm doing something shitty. I know when it's shitty, and I know when it's great. If I'm really true and honest to myself, it's always great. It's always exactly the way it's supposed to be.

If it's coming from where it needs to come from, truly needs to come from, then whatever I do and whatever I say, however I say it, and however I do it, is correct. You may have a different opinion, but for me, for my creative needs, for my artistic creativity, when I express through my body and through my mind as an actor, it is always correct. I know when I mess up, everyone messes up. So you just go back and do it again. It's a great thing about film work and TV work.

You go back and do it. They only need one, dude. You'd be 50 takes if you want. They just need one. So whether you find that one the first time around, the second third or the 31st time around that's an amazing way to look at things is it it is nobody else does i don't know no no no what you're saying right now just rings true i think a lot of actors who are listening to this a lot of people out there in general who don't know about acting you know sometimes

you're like i want to get on the first two takes because everybody's watching me and the director and all this thing and what i'm getting from you i don't care what you don't give a fuck as long as you get the one that they need that's right so i don't care if it takes 30 takes and everybody's pissed off and why can't this guy get his line out and why can't he do it and if you get it whatever's on film at the end he was great that's what everybody sees that's right and that's pretty amazing to have that feeling

because I think I'm always struggling or always wanting to be great always wanted to be dead on right away I want to get prepared so right away I could be right up I'm a hard of myself I'm really hard of myself I hate it I hate it but why are you hard on yourself though because you don't want to let people down

you want to that's the difference see I don't I don't much care about what other other people think about what I'm doing at all and you've never have have you not much somebody once told me that uh you know and by the way this is another point is when you're doing films or whatever you're doing if you just kind of say I fucking I don't care I'm just gonna they're like hey this is on film forever so you should probably try because it's your face on screen forever so that was years ago that happened sometimes the more you try the worse you get and the more you try the more frustrating you get And the more that happens, the farther and farther away you get from the end result,

which is to do it in an honest, sincere way. Yeah. And, you know, I don't want to get the wrong impression that I truly don't care. I care about people hearing me go pee in the bathroom. You know, so I do care, you know, about things, you know. But I don't, in the process of creating something, if I'm really into the role, it doesn't matter, to me, it doesn't matter

what people are thinking when they're watching. This is probably going to be taken completely wrong way. I'm not doing this to please you. I'm doing this to express my inner, emotions, feelings, frustrations that are being worked and molded with this role that I'm doing. This role is a person with problems and issues and stuff. So I enjoy exploring those and I enjoy having those be expressed in my work. I would say I feel that way intermittently.

I feel that way Sometimes I feel like I have absolute confidence I know exactly what I want to do And I and I just kind of Everything around me becomes just blacked out As an actor As an actor you There have been times where I just

I'm focusing on just getting these fucking lines out Or I just want to get through I want to get through this fucking scene And they'll find a way to edit it You know when that happens No I've been there we've all been there And when that happens The script is usually

wrong. Yeah, a lot of times. It's not that they don't trust what you're doing. Right. They don't trust the material. If I have the script, and I've worked it and worked it until it can go anywhere and still create what is needed to be created, right?

Usually, if I don't have enough time on a script, that's when I'm like, it's still lines to me. You know? You want the time. I didn't have enough time. I just recently, for goodness sake, I did the SWAT thing. The show SWAT? Yeah, I didn't have enough time. I did, I did a little, uh, uh, of the first pilot. I did one time around. They fired me, I think. Yeah. Oh yeah, God. I was, I, I did know my

lines, but I just came in from Europe. How many lines did you have? I got the script. It was, it's TV. It was a shitload of lines. It was like 500% more lines than you needed to say, you know. And here I am trying to be a good actor, learning my lines, and all this stuff, all you needed to do is nod your head or something like that. And so, okay, here I am forcing myself to learn these lines and knowing internally, this really sucks. You don't need this many lines to say to do and accomplish what you need to accomplish in this scene. But that being said, I didn't have enough time with the material.

Did you feel it? Did you feel? Oh, of course. Were you embarrassed at all? You always feel it. You always feel it. And you're always, no, you're soft on the lines. There's nothing you can do about it.

All they need is one. But in TV, sometimes that could piss people. It does piss people off, but all they need is one. And they don't even need a whole one for God's sake. Yeah. All actors listening in here. You do not have to do the scene as whole, as rich. and get it perfect every time absolutely not even one time for God's sake you don't need to get it

perfect ever they are never going to keep the scene as written they're going to be cutting in and out of every just if only you had a director or somebody smart enough to go you know I know we wrote three pages but all we really need is this line and this line and this line fear you know covering their asses yeah all we need is this because we're going to be on them at that moment. And then we're going to cut back to you at this moment. And so that's like so... Can I interject here, though, Rook? Listen, Rooker is an established

great actor, folks. Look, I'm going to preface saying he's one of the best. He's just been in, he's worked with everybody. JFK, all these big movies, Mississippi Burning, Henry Portch of a Circular, Guardians of the Galaxy, but I'm going to have to say, you're kind of wrong. Here's what I'm

going to say. Rooker is fucking wrong here. Because Why do you have to get the whole scene? Because sometimes it's a push-in with a camera, and they want that whole little... No, no, if that's the case, then you know you have to do it. But if that's not the case, and you know that's not the case, you know they're never going to do that. How do you know what the director's going to do that? They're never going to do that.

How do you know he's going to do a push-in? Because the star looks better than you. Because they're way sexier than you. They're not going to do a pushing on this guy with his... You're not going to do a push it on this mug. Let me tell you, for God's sake. I want you to ride a bike over my genitals right now. Can you do that?

Totally. Would you be fine with that? Do you have a stingray bike? I'm not going to blank. I have a huffy. A huffy would be perfect. But I have these. Extra heavy, extra weight.

Extra heavy huffy. Yeah. You got to promise not to move, though. You got to just stand there. Fuck that. I'm moving. I'm running for the fuck because you'll run as hard. I would totally run you over.

You'd run me over. You'd hurt me. I would instantly run you run. you. I'd have a huffy track mark on my scrotum. I would totally love to run you over. It'd go viral. Yeah. I'd run you over. But it would hurt like fuck. No, I wouldn't. Oh my God. We're going to get in the pain thing. Listen, my, I, I'm going to go back here.

Back to your childhood. You said something about artistic, like it was your, it was art for you, right? Yes. Being an actor. That's right. But we skipped over. You did Andy get your gun two fucking lines that you were like, I'm never doing this again. And somehow jumped into like, I'm an artist now. What made you an artist? What play or what you started taking courses I think I was always an artist You were taking courses you were doing these like you were acting them out and you were like I'm good And from there would happen no I was always an artist even when I was young kid Did they look down on you in Jasper Alabama like weird this guy's a fairy? Did they think like that? I didn't do any art then

No you can be an artist and not do anything about it Really? Yeah because you're being satisfied in other ways okay you know as a kid you just play I was very satisfied with my we'd go out in the morning and stay on all day long pretty much I think that's how you are now you like to play hard and live hard yeah we just play in the woods we'd climb trees we'd skin cats you know you know what a skinning the cat is I don't know it's like when you climb a big long it's a horrible thing to do for to the tree but you climb these really thin the thin pine trees you climb them all the way up to the tippy top and then you swing back and forth and you just swing back and forth and back and

forth and you're bending the tree back and forth and there's a horrible thing to do for this this growing tree and eventually it falls it doesn't fall it just bends and then you just hop off but why is it called skinning the cat hell if i know well i'm just glad it wasn't skinning the cat like literally because i was worried no i was like we might have to cut this out not skinning cats No. No, no, it wasn't that. It was called Skinning the Cat. So what was the first thing that you did that you found out there was an audition for?

Something was happening where you did it in that kind of thing. See, we skipped again. Well, that's what I want to know. Because I don't know. I have no idea. Do you know? I mean, do you were. Yeah, I did a play in high school.

So you were young. I was scared, shitless. I was 17 and I did it. And all of a sudden, after I did it, people were, like oh my god you're really funny and then i said okay i never i never got that i never got i and you wouldn't care anyway i got that satisfaction uh on the rustling mat or in the on the football field or in the track field i got that satisfaction that admiration and that wow oh you know look what that kid just did through sports right and i was very good at that and but those

creative juices that causes you to spin out of a tackle or or are you know just jump over someone instead of going through them or or even going through them you know that kind of satisfaction is the very same satisfaction is very similar to the satisfaction I get when when I'm working on a role and I'm and and it goes well that you know it's just like you're just killing it that day and it's beautiful. I read a whole thing about Henry Portrait of a serial killer where you blacked at your mirrors. You didn't want to look at yourself.

This is true. You're playing a real serial killer, Lucas, Henry Lee Lucas. Yeah. And you saw a few of his mannerisms. You watched some video. You saw, you heard his voice. That's right. You really didn't talk to anybody on set.

You sort of went method for one of the first times in your career or the first time in your career. Probably a few times because you haven't gotten method a lot, right? but you were method in that role I don't know what method is well you know you just kind of submerge yourself in this character so much that you don't see daylight you don't see I always I always do that you always do that yes so even but there's some many many many many times people will people will they'll come up to me and they will it's almost like a complaint that they would they can't tell when I'm acting and when I'm not you know it's almost a complaint

in that they don't know how to talk to you as Michael Rooker as opposed to Merle Dixon. And I don't really care and it doesn't bother me. Yeah, but I don't you think that you, look, there's some method actors who just stay in the role and there are Daniel Day Lewis and he's Abraham Lincoln for six months and his wife's like I'm having dinner with my husband Abraham Lincoln. That's right. You don't go that far.

I try to keep my work at work. As you know, your work can spill over into your daily life and that does occur and like for example Henry what's built over in Henry not what you're thinking but what's built over in Henry was that I discovered that I had very much this very quiet person inside me you know that was introverted that kind of things built over for several weeks. Is this something you had to work on? To be quiet? No.

No. You just sort of jumped into it. No, I didn't jump. It just happened. Is it something when you saw the character? When you saw him, you saw how he spoke, do you listen to how he spoke? Did you sort of go, I get this? I got it, but I, you know, you're always looking for those little handles on the role.

That little, that little thing you can grab onto and turn. and open and oh there it is you know you're looking for that and you're always kind of trying to find that that moment or that one thing that that clicks so that was when i discovered that that i had this this ability to um still be expressive in my work without ta-ta look at me Yeah. So, and Henry was when that was discovered for me, I think. And for someone who's always on, and I can relate to that, on a lot, that was probably very rewarding and comforting.

It was very rewarding and very powerful. Yeah. Extremely powerful. And power comes from within. And this power is much more visible and obvious when there's not so much much noise going on. But I use that in eight men out. Yeah. And in other roles, I try to find, there are moments I try to find in a lot of these roles where I can be quiet.

How do you, because you're playing a serial killer. Yeah. You're a bad guy. That's true. You're a troubled guy. You're like, has a lot of this one. I tried to, this was my first role, really. Yeah.

with any sort of through line. Yeah. I'd done other little TV gigs, day things, and stuff like that. You know, I don't even think it was even guest starring at that time. It was very, very early in my career. I was still doing theater amazing. So you didn't have any money? I didn't have any money.

No, no, no. I, you know, four, five, eight years, it's almost like I would pay you to give me a job. Right. So, anyway, Henry was the very first role that had, any sort of inkling of a through line. But just so you know, when I would do a small role, all of those small roles, those little dinky little things that you do as an actor, those roles, each and every one of those roles had a fully developed through line.

It didn't matter in your head, in my head, in my mind, in my creating of the The piece, every single one, even if I only had two words, one word, a look, it all had history, and it all was a fully rounded, fully developed person. If any actors are listening now. Yeah, it's really important. If you don't do that, then you're missing out and you're going to be unsatisfied and creatively. because concentrating this through line down, down, down, down, down,

less, less, less, less, less, into what could be just a look or a line, one word. There's so many meanings. It's so powerful, so strong. It's like the beginning of our universe being crushed into it before it explodes, yeah?

So even if in the play, even if in the film or the TV show, you only have one word. Well, who said, who said the, there was an old director, I forgot who said it, but he said, and he was like, what are you doing in the background in this play? He goes, oh, I just, I don't have anything to say. He's like, no, you have everything to say. You just choose not to say it.

There you go. I mean, there are a lot of phrases that people, you know, we actors and we artists, I mean, we're always like trying to, you know, find whatever moment that is you're trying to find. If sometimes when you stop looking is when you find it. And sometimes when you stop trying is when you find it. Or when you listen. And when you listen.

That's the biggest thing. And when you're quiet. You hear everything when you're quiet. And you find many, many answers when you're. when you're quiet. You don't like rehearsal. I do not like. You've never liked rehearsal.

I do not like rehearsals. I don't like rehearsal either. I prefer to have it as honest and instantaneous as possible. But all my rehearsals take place in my own world, in my own moments while I'm working the script. I absolutely agree with you,

especially in comedy. I feel like a lot of times. you go out there and you rehearse two or three times and do marks and I rather not I'd rather do the marks for the camera but you wasting takes it's almost because you're not

doing this this is not a play yeah yeah this is something that's that is going to be shown and it's going to be done and you're moving on you want to feel natural spontaneous exactly it's got to be

you get you can rehearse like just maybe a little bit but man don't go too far in there unless you have two weeks or three weeks to rehearse the scene. Then you're fine. If like in JFK, I did JFK with all of my favorite movies.

We had like two, we had three weeks of table reads, which were all rehearsing, and we're changing lines back and forth. But we got three weeks to do this, dude. We don't have like three days. Three days would be impossible. And he does a lot with the camera.

Yeah, you can't do that in three days. Three weeks, you can do it. You can actually rehearse. properly. But I have almost never, never had the opportunity to do a film or TV show where I had ample time to rehearse. Yeah. Maybe JFK, that was a beautiful rehearsal process. And that's probably the only time ever in my career that I had ample time to rehearse and to be free to create. because he would sit at the head of the table and just let us go at it.

Yeah. There's sometimes during rehearsal where some actors will come on and they just really want to rehearse because they've done it the same way in front of their mirror and now they want to do it this exact way. And that's one thing I've learned is the best way to do it is I want to learn the lines so well

that I could do them anyway. And I start to play with them and pick up things. If I have time. If you have time. If there's time to do that. If your personal rehearsal time, if you have enough time to get there and do that that's awesome because you know the work and you know the lines and you know everything so well they don't even they're no longer lines right there are no lines anymore you are actually there experiencing what you need to experience and and giving off what you need to give off you know you uh did you ever have a rut in your career where there was this sort of like there are many ruts in my career well where was it because really before before walking dead Which, I've read that you didn't really think playing this character of Merle.

It was a recurring character. It was AMC, right? Yeah. It wasn't a regular. So they probably didn't pay his shit, right? That's right. They didn't pay his shit. They're notorious for that.

And you're going to do this role when it's about zombies. And what did you honestly think when they first told you this? It's a one-off. And did you think the show was going to be unsuccessful? No, I thought it was a one-off. And six shows, and that's it. Oh, okay. I thought you meant your character.

No, my character was. was a one-off too because I'm handcuffed and are and that's and that's it at the top of the building and that's the and the show's not going to continue you know that was like in uh episode maybe episode three or four we did that and then it then it had so maybe two or three more episodes before the six episodes were ended had would be stopped did you read i had no idea i did not think this show was going to continue did you read for it i didn't read for it but it was quite an ordeal to get it was yes because um because of previous experiences with one of the producers that his name rhyme with pank parapount

me and me and frank had experienced we we had uh there was a there was a movie of the week or something like that there was a show So 15 years ago, 18 years ago, a long time ago, I was going to do it. I had signed on to do it. And all of a sudden, I got this other offer that paid a lot more money. So you screwed him. Oh, yeah. That's what he felt.

That's what he felt. That I just walked away from this project and left him high and dry. But in reality, I had not just walked. walked away. I it was very important for me to to let him know that something else was going on and and and all that and and what occurred was I didn't get to do the project with Frank because I got I took this other gig that paid a lot more money and I needed money at the time you know it was I think it was cliffhanger okay and I got I got paid a lot more money. money and um and so i said to my agents i said what am i what are we going to do what can we do and they were like we'll talk to them we'll we'll talk to them we'll talk they didn't call them they didn't call them they didn't call him no he's out it's fine he's out he's out they don't want to deal with it so of course they tell me oh no we talk to him everything's cool everything's fine he said go on

you know we'll catch you again we'll catch you down the road Everything is cool. And here I am, fast. Here I am young actor believing everything my agent is telling me. And they never, they never did that with him. And so he felt slighted and he felt angered and he felt all that was directed toward me for all these years. And I had no idea. There was that anima, that much animosity and bad feelings for between him, him and his producer,

were very much like this you know fucking actor geez he just walks away like that and it wasn't like that he had no idea of the personal that's right things that you were going to and so when my my friends who were the casting people told me about the role

they said oh yeah my god it's so perfect for you and the guy he's such a dick that you know they handcuff him to the rooftop and he oh thank you it's perfect for me And he cuts his hand off to get away and, you know, perfect for me because not everybody can play roles that are racist and sexist and plain evil. Sometimes you look at them and you think they're just plain evil and they just are dicks. And not everybody can do that well. Well, especially where you sort of like them in a weird way.

For some reason, inside of the. me, I'm quite good at bringing these people out, bringing this role out to be a real, not just a two-dimensional cliche thing. As I said before, you already heard that I like, even for two lines, I like to have my, I like to have that role be a full, well-developed, you know. Yeah. Or maybe you, back when you were younger, growing up in Alabama, you

might have seen things like this and you remembered certain characters. Well, of course I did. You know, I probably helped with my cousins, my cousins would fight with rattlesnakes. They had, they had killed rattlesnakes and they'd be, like, be whipping them at each other, take their shirts off and, like, fight like they had whips and they'd hit each other with these rattlesnakes. And I was watching stuff like this. And this is some of my developmental, my developmental things were from.

These are like kind of really rednecky, tough, backwoodsy kind of guys and tough, tough guys. And so, yeah, as a six-year-old, seven-year-old, you're watching, you know, all this activity go on in your life. Well, let me ask you. So, you know, you go through Ruts. You've had such a great career. You've done so many great movies. But let me get, let me finish on the Merle Dixon thing. and the Walking Dead.

Because if we don't, people are going to get half the story. My casting friend said, we got to do something. I said, well, what do we do? Well, basically, she said, look, we love you for this role. You're perfect for this role. You're like the only one that can do this justice. And I said, well, great. He said, but the only problem is the producer has a hard on for you.

And I go, there's a pause. And I go, so I take it. not a good heart on yeah and she's like no it's not it happens back in the she started explaining what happened and I go

oh my God I know I know who it is I know exactly what happened this is what happened this is what happened this is what really happened and she goes oh my God

he doesn't think that at all he thinks just the opposite and I said well how do we how do we fix it how do we fix this what do i do she said uh um and i'll go wash his car go you know do whatever you got to do to get this role you got to have this role and i said how about well how about if i write him a letter you know i'd rather write him a letter than wash his car or talk to him in person pretty much he probably wouldn't talk to me right so you're i'm more articulate when I write than I am when I actually sometimes they say the wrong

things they put my foot in the mouth if I write it I can look at it and change it and fix it right I wrote a letter I wrote him much more like a note right it's a long note hey Frank sorry for dissing you sorry for taking cliffhanger fuck you know no I almost remember it I can't say it all but I I I don't remember I still have it I still have it but I said this is me I introduced myself and wanted him to know that I have completely respected your work all these years that we've not worked together. And mentioning that, let me just clarify when our first encounter occurred. And then I went on to clarify what my side of the story was.

What your agents did articulate to get back one. articulate properly what was going on and and you know what I said I wrote the letter and after I wrote the letter I said I have it and she said you better give it to me first how he'll take it for me he won't read it if it's coming from me right so I gave it to her and she sent it to him and he read it and he believed it because it was the truth and it was genuine and it was genuine and it was the truth and so he read it he believed it and the rest is history I mean we eventually talked and and and work things out and and and I was Merle Dixon and it's great

all right so you go off and you do walking dad and you do the one you thought it's going to be one and could you believe I mean it was one of it dude I could not believe middle America got sold on that and our our our absolutely enamored it is the biggest thing in the world right now it's the biggest thing in the world my role

was so memorable I died in the latter part of season three spoiler alert if no one in the world has has not seen it yet too damn bad but the memories that the fans have

from my work in the Walking Dead has been a godsend for me, in the business and in the fan life. Explosive. Explosive is not even, it doesn't even give it justice. I remember watching it the first episode and then you kind of disappear. Yeah. And I remember going, that was one of my favorite characters all along.

Yeah, I disappeared after like maybe the third episode, but it was where did this guy go? Yeah. And, you know, I owe it. all to Frank Deribont. Frank Deribat. And Gellan heard these two guys cast me. And before them, my friends, Lisa May Fincanon and Craig Fincanon,

these casting people in Wilmington and Atlanta, I've known them since Days of Thunder Wow You know Prior to they're being married And now they've been married This whole time

And we've been dear friends Forever They're the ones Who first called me And initially told me About the role Without them I wouldn't be in the peace

Without Lisa Mayfin Cannon And Craig I would not be Merle Dixon in this show because even though Frank agreed he understood they still had reservations and well I hear he's he's kind of a handful

you know they're trying to talk themselves out of it difficult to work with me difficult to work with anything he's a handful and my my friends were like Lisa May with what what what what holly actor is not a fucking handful. Give me a break. Absolutely. What kind of excuse is that?

You want the right guy for the role or you want to get some schmuck actor, Hollywood actor out there to do the role who doesn't even have a southern accent. And if they didn't fight for you, you want to get a Canadian because they're cheaper. Yeah. Go to Canada and get somebody to play Merle Dixon.

Frank said to, I think Frank said something like Lisa, I trust you and you're like a sister to me and she stopped him and they said Frank stop where you're going and listen

to me. Michael Rooker is a brother to me we are blood we are made from the same cloth and I'm telling you right now

if you do not cast him you guys are going to be regretting it he is perfect for this role i'm telling you he's perfect for this role and they knew i was perfect for this role there you know how they you know how that stuff goes in casting they it's it's it's ego everybody thinks they want an opinion and they want to know what's yeah but she and her husband you they had my back i got to tell you something they had my back i just in this time for this podcast the passion you just put behind this story it's amazing because it comes back to the point i've talked to people about this you know we all need someone to fight for us yeah and you know because we can

fight it's so hard being an actor we hope and pray it's our agents yeah but that doesn't have guys i'm letting you know right now and let me tell you almost never happen and when your agents say oh you were great they loved you don't fucking listen to it in one ear out the other don't think I've asked a casting director once, a big cast director, I go, do you always say they were great? He goes, yeah, but we never meet it. We just, we never know when that actor's going to come back around and be big. So we always say, yeah, they were great. They did a great job.

We love them. They're going into, they love everybody. They don't love you. You didn't do a great job. And that's their job. That's their job. And you know what? You can believe it in a little bit.

If you want to believe it to make yourself feel good, then do it. You know, if it works for you, if that works for you. If that works for you to make you feel better about the audition or about the meeting or whatever it is, fine. But, you know, coming from you and coming from me, we've both been in the business for a long time. I'm sure there are many, many jobs that I have not gotten because people just basically talk their way out of it. Yeah. You know, and they have no idea. And I don't like, I don't like going in.

unless I really feel that I'm right for the role. Yeah! Fuck you, Rooker, you're right. I fucking hate it. I just went in for a big movie. And I'm like, I'm not right for this. And I'm thinking in my mind while I'm learning the lines. And I'm like, I know it's a big opportunity.

It's just not right for me. I don't want to go in there knowing I could just destroy it. And there's so much truth to that. Yeah. There's so much truth to that. So you're setting yourself up for a big disappointment. Yeah. When you want to go for all for all,

the auditions you want to go in for everything and you're not right for everything yeah don't waste your time you got to know you're not right for it in your heart yeah if you know in your heart you're right for it go and fight for it and give it your all if you know you're not right for it and you're just going to go do it for a gig to make some money go do it too you know but you you need you you got to have a reason for going in not just because you want to go in and be seen I'm constantly looking for for stuff that is going to help me create, things that are challenging. Fulfill you. Fulfill me as an artist, as an actor.

And also pay you, hopefully. And pay me, yes. So you could feed your family and you're having. Of course. Right. And it's, in that aspect, that business aspect, it's a gig and that's what you do. But deep down, you really, I'm really searching for material. material and it's not necessarily what the agent thinks is right for me or what managers think

are going to work. It's what you want to do. It's what you inside your your spirit needs to do. And that's, you know, it's funny. You say that with a smile. Like it's like, oh, am I being too dramatic or being, but you're not. And you know that. And I look at you and I think that it's like, you know, if you're, you don't want to be 85 years old.

in life going, why didn't I just do what I wanted to do? Why did I do what they said I should do? Or why did I do something, unless you have to feed your family, unless you have to do certain things. But if you can afford to do things, and if you could do things your own way and say, hey, I want to do something that really fulfills me. That's why I'm here. And that's hard. And a lot of people, we don't get to do that. But that's why we're here. And when you say that's why we're here, we can take it on many levels. And I like to take it at the level that is the most spiritually real. Wow.

That's why I'm here. I don't know about you or anyone else, but I know why I'm here. And... Why are you here? I'm here to find those roles where I can express my create... We are all these creatures

and we have ways of expressing ourselves. and to change a person's life, to make someone feel a certain thing, to help our fellow man in whatever way we can. And the way I have been chosen to help my fellow man in this life is to be an artist and to find my medium where I will, work the best in and where I can express what I need to express. And I have not even come close. So I am still searching.

I never thought I'd say, wow, that was really powerful to you, Rucker. But that was incredibly powerful to the point where I forgot I was talking or we were on a podcast. That was exceptional to me. That meant a lot to me. It really, it hit home. And I think if, you know, you really listen to what he said, that, you know, we're all given something. We're all given something.

You may not have huge success. But if you do something that you really love or you're good at, I mean, that's the biggest thing in life. And if you could make other people happy, like we were given a certain thing, you know, whatever that is with you acting. And if you can make people feel or appreciate you, I've talked about this before, but I've had. people soldiers fought in Iraq come back and say this got us through and like I don't know are you serious I couldn't believe it I didn't believe what I was doing I thought it was kind of trivial oh my god some of those trivial roles that you're thinking oh it's just an action flick it brought joy it brought entertainment men and women in uniform that are away from home for months and months and

their children are back here their wives are here their loved ones are here and they haven't seen them and the only way they can say hi to them is on Skype or something like that yeah And to give, I don't want to say give back is such a cliche term these days, but to do something creatively that they get to see in the PX or, you know, and they're watching and they're like enjoying it. And that's a, that is so amazing. That reward, I and, you know, and you get it. And because I've had people say guys and gals who come back who are away on,

deployment several times and and that some of these movies were the only one of the one of the ways they made it through dude yeah you know that downtime that time they got to go and watch

you know and I don't even say Guardians of the Galaxy but it's like cliffhanger and and Days of Thunder and and Mississippi Burning and Sea of Love and they love these whatever they want to watch it's there and they get to watch it

and amazing right unbelievable I could talk to you about that for hours yeah nobody knows this story pull into this Japanese restaurant I park and as I'm pulling in I see several people pointing and just standing there pointing and looking off

into the street and I look what they're looking at and I see a little head bobbing in the middle of the boulevard, and I'm going, oh, my God, it's a child in the middle of this boulevard, foothill boulevard, and nobody's doing anything. They're just looking. I get, I jump on my car, I jump over this stupid fence, I run out into the middle of the street, I stop the cars from running over the kid. I grabbed the kid up, and everybody stopped, cars like stopping

four feet from us, and I grabbed this kid and this little baby, and, and, you know, and, and, you And I start singing to him because he's nervous. He's scared as hell. And he's like, nothing's coming out of him. He's just frozen. And I start singing to him. And he starts bawling. He starts, because he hears my voice.

Of course, I'm not a singer. And so he's screaming, bawling. He starts bawling. I bring him over and there is mom coming out of a store. The kid had gotten out of the store and walked out into the boulevard, dude. And I swear to God, when I pulled. into my favorite Japanese restaurant and I saw

like, there were like eight people. No one doing anything. Just standing there. Not doing a single thing but pointing. And that's how life is. Sometimes, you know, guys. Sometimes people freeze. Freeze. People freeze. I'm not giving them a big negative, but people freeze. Some people

freeze and some people jump into action and I'm more of an action kind of guy. I've always been kind of an action. Garters, we're going to get through this because we're going to end this. You've been, this has been so amazing, but I just, I can't stop, we can't stop talking. This is good. Guardians, it seems like, has changed your life in the biggest way for, since probably your whole career. Of course. Yeah, now because, I mean, back then, I, I've done movies that were well received. Right. In the past. J.F. But never a blockbuster,

leading, like a big role. Not, not, I never gotten the opportunity to do a role like, Yon-Doo, yeah. This blue alien creature brought out more human qualities than any human role that I've played thus far, you know? And that's saying a lot because I've played a lot. And Merle Dixon was a great, a great through line for that role as well. Out of my mind, those two pop into my mind right away. because I got to go further in my artistic expression of this character. And I just being on set for the two weeks that I was on there and I did the small role,

Martin X, and I remember being there with Stallone, he worked with the cliffhanger. And I just remember being there with you and going, and I'd never really seen you work, like in person. Yeah, that's right. We never were. And just watching you, the first scene you have, the big scene, he's still on there, he's like, hey, you know, where were you? you know you did this and you start losing your shit and i i saw that passion i saw what you talk about in this in this podcast and what you take and how it affects you and how it exhaust you and how you sort of you're friendly you give a hug you're there you're present but you're also you sort

of keep to yourself you sort of rest you're you're one guy this is a story that's known during uh uh chris prats uh one of his big scenes you fell asleep to the point but he's just kicking you because you're snoring and he's like shut the fuck up shut the fuck up rucker i can't hear him because i'm sleeping well the next thing though they had to reshoot that scene and what happens the next time you fall asleep again yes do you want to apologize to chris no because he got to do it again and he did it better but you fell asleep again i i forced him i forced him to stay in character he's constantly jumping in and out of character all the time joking and stuff this is a serious moment

he was forced to stay in that moment and he did and he did beautifully and and but you can't apologize for something that just just came natural it's not like I wanted to fall asleep it's just that we were all very tired long hours as long hours very exhausting work I had to lay perfectly still very quiet so you almost had to play dead you know what you're playing yeah I was playing so you had to be so you so you fell asleep trying to be dead that was method sleeping yeah indeed i i had to i agree with you now i had to i had to breathe i had to breathe i had to uh i had to slow my breath down so that they didn't because they had a camera on the side of me right so i had to slow my breath down to a point where they couldn't see me

breathing so i did i keto for many years and i learned how to control my breath a lot true or false we're going to end that's how i did all right true or false questions real quick to wrap it up just true or false you can't you can only say true or false this is it there's a true or there's a false that's like a yes or no answer you got sprayed by a skunk yes true you duct taped a stabbing wound so your mom wouldn't find out true didn't think that was in my belly in my belly how long before you just out of idle curiosity how much before you got uh went to the er got yourself Oh, I slept on it, so my bed was filled with blood the next morning. When my mom came to wake me up for school, she almost had a heart attack.

Okay, moving on. Anyway, yeah, go ahead. True or false? True or false? You've had the hymline maneuver done to you because you were choking on a lemon drop, true or false? This is true, yes. On a lemon drop. Yes.

Is it embarrassing or you embarrassed? It was, uh, I was going to die probably. Do you wish it was a gobstopper? Forrest. His name was Forrest. I saw him on a corner of my eye running to me. And the next thing I knew. Was it forrest Gump if he was running?

I know, right? It's a gentleman, and he grabbed me from behind, and he gave me a hymnik, and the lemon drop shot out of my mouth and knocked a hole in the wall. You were a rookie lifeguard of the year in 76, 77. True or false. I think it was for one of those years, yeah.

You didn't have shoes until you entered the second grade, true or false. I had them in my second grade, but not in my first. This has been a real pleasure. I could talk to you for hours. I mean, this is just amazing. it feels like time just flies by there's some of these that time doesn't quite fly by but uh and it was it was tough to get you in here you're a busy guy yeah i know you're doing a lot of stuff but we don't

live too far away from each other this has been a real treat i'm always i've always been a big fan but then we became friends and i was just like you're such you're so full of life i you almost seem like a therapist to me in a lot of ways you need one i do you talk to me i need a better one i need a better one you talk about your sleep you don't have any sleep issues you could sleep anywhere you're a happy go lucky guy i do sleep anywhere you've been married how long 37 I think 37 years to Margo you have two children yeah you're a grandpa two times over now two times over yeah is life great is it the best that's ever been for you right now I love the grandchildren they're the they're the just the most adorable little kids in the world and

and Lyra is very much like me she's the the oldest of the two right now she's running her sister over with the bike she is a just a physical dynamo I just I just put in a zip line for her Of course you did. How old is she? She's almost four now. Perfect. My wife's telling me, Alin didn't have a zip line until she was seven.

But Lyra is much more advanced physically than she needs a zip line. She needs a zip line. She needs it. She has a fun time doing it. What's your Instagram? What are you? Where is it at? I'm Michael underscore Rooker.

This has been a real treat. Rook. Thanks for allowing me to be inside of you. Indeed. It's awesome. Hi, I'm Joe Sallsee. Hi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do.

Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody.

We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's follow and listen on your favorite platform.