Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Foreigner’s LOU GRAMM: Rock & Roll’s Greatest Voices, Finally Making the Hall of Fame & The Party That Never Ended

Episode Date: August 6, 2024

Lou Gramm (Foreigner, Black Sheep) joins us this week to share his story of growing up as a New York kid with aspirations in music, to fronting one of the most iconic rock groups Foreigner, and being inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. Lou shares the origins of classic songs like ‘Feels Like the First Time’ and ‘Juke Box Hero’ along with the push and pull that came with record label interactions during his climb in the industry. We also talk about lessons learned opening up for KISS, meeting Mick Jones, and what caused him to put the rock n’ roll party lifestyle to rest. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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land rover.ca. You're listening to Inside of You're listening to Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum and Ryan Tejas, of course, is in the studio. I'm here Brian we've been doing this for years we uh I think we have with you passed my fifth anniversary of this no yeah you've been doing it five years I want to see it was summer of 2019 holy crapzoids yeah I know that's amazing well the reason we're here is because of you guys um so thanks for uh you know listening to us every week even if you don't know a guest and you want to learn about something or learn about facing it or mental health stuff. Thank you for tuning in every week. Whenever you tune in, our handles are at Talk, at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook

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online store has tons of merch and autograph stuff and small bell stuff go to the inside of you online store um i the guest today ryan yeah is probably one of my I mean not probably one of my favorites uh favorite all time rock and roll voices period lou graham of foreigner is i don't know many front men who have a better voice than him i mean you think lou graham you think steve perry you think um robert plant um there aren't a lot that have the power and tonality. Yeah. He's just amazing, and he was on the podcast.

I was a little starstruck, and he's got a book, Jukebox Hero, My Five Decades in Rock and Roll. He signed it, but there it is. Make sure you order this because you are going to be pretty rocked out when you read this thing. His story is crazy, and I think you're going to love it. jukebox hero and the story today of how he came up with that song is pretty cool um i loved it um this this one was really from me i didn't even think but then i realized who wouldn't want to listen to

this guy uh i just wanted to interview him i wanted to talk to him i was starstruck and uh you know how many hits can you have there are so many hits i mean i listen to foreigner all the time And even a solo career. It just, it just, it's been ubiquitous and you don't even know it. Like, it's just all constantly in the background. Like, you can turn an radio station anywhere in the world and there's someone playing a foreigner. Urgent, waiting for a girl like you. I want to know what love is.

Dirty white boy. Double vision. Double vision. What's that something? That was yesterday. It feels like the first time. Feels like the first time. New Monday.

I love that. I mean, it feels like the first time. Come on. Yeah, it's endless. Great guest. Lou, thanks for coming on. And let's get inside of Lou Graham. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. This is more than exciting for me. Awesome. It is. I mean, I know you get this all the time. You've had this your whole career. But to be in the room with you, just hanging out. And the first thing we start talking about, because you're from New York at Rochester. Rochester, New York. And you've always been a Ranger fan. Well, when I moved to New York in 1976 to be the lead singer or foreigner, I've always been a sports fan. And I had a friend of mine who,

who was letting go of his season's tickets to the Rangers. Oh, boy. And he just happened to mention it to me. So I bought, I bought, because you have to wait years to get season tickets there. Unless you know somebody who has them and more or less sells them to you, like a parallel move, you know. Right, right. You save a lot of money that way. Save a lot of money and you, you save a lot of time.

How much were season tickets back then? I think they were, they were over about $22, $2, $2,300 a year for a ticket. Now they're probably half a million dollars. I had, I had nice seats that they weren't up in the nosebleed section. They were about eight rows behind the bench. When you were growing up, did you just have the ear? Did you have the voice? Was it at a young age that you started?

The people were like, hey, Lou, you got something. My parents were both musicians. My dad played trumpet in high school and started his own big band when he was 17. And I bet you sang with them. Well, my dad was a fan of Harry James, the famous trumpet player. And so when my dad started his big band, my mom, who went to another high school, came and auditioned his singer and she got the job. And they fell in love and got married. What?

Yeah. That's like a movie. It is like a movie. And so my dad had a regular job. He had to be at work at 6 in the morning. What do you do? He worked the shears at a sheet metal place that made desks and file cabinets. Good Lord.

Yeah. So he had to be there at 6 in the morning. Half the time when he was playing, well, his big band days were over back in the early 50s, the big bands were over. It was the combos, the four or five-piece combos. So he wouldn't get home until two or two-thirty in the morning. He had to be at work at six. Hard-working guy.

Hard-working guy. You guys were close? Oh, yes. So you and your parents were very close. You had a functional childhood. Very, very much so. I had an older brother and a younger brother, and they both were musicians as well. And so my mom gave my dad the ultimatum.

Either you put your horn away and stay working. or this family, if you continue playing, you're going to lose your job where you really make your money. Right. And you're going to lose your family too. Jeez, so he had to stop that. He put his horn away for, for 28 years.

Ah, it's probably sad for him. It was sad for him, but eventually... Family comes first. Let it go, but as we kids grew up and left the house, he started to pick up the horn again. Just to put his lip in. shape and his armature and just started playing again and it felt good and and uh within five years after my youngest brother was out of the house my dad was forming a new big band wow and we lived in

the town of gates right and outside of rochester and he called the band the gate swingers the gate swingers and and they had a lot of shows that they would play uh festivals and and firemen's carnivals are around, around Rochester and suburbs and stuff. And he actually got about six or seven guys that were in his high school big band to come and play with him 30 years later. That's incredible. Yep. Now, when did you know or your parents go, Lou? Lewis. Do they say Lewis? Lewis. Did they say, hey, you've got a voice here. And was it sort of like something you were born with? Or do you think people are born with just a natural ability? Because you could learn how to sing a certain way.

Like, I can sing, but I don't know if I'm pitchy. I don't know if I'm off-key half the time. Well, you know, I, uh, I remember my, when my mom and dad were, well, my dad wasn't working on weekends. And, and, uh, from the time I would get up on a bed in the morning, they'd have the jazz radio station on downstairs loud. and they'd my mom would be singing at the top of her lungs and she could sing oh boy she was good she had a very good voice wow and my dad would be be uh pretending he was playing and and and and to wake up and to come down to that was awesome you know wow and um so by by seven or eight years old i started playing drums and my my dad you know they didn't he didn't make a lot of money at his

job. But his brother, when they were growing up, played drums. He played for three or four years and then quit. Still had his set of drums tucked away in his basement. They'd been tucked away for 35, 40 years. And so my dad went down and gave him 50 bucks for the set of drums. They were old-fashioned set of drums. You couldn't tune the drums. The heads were calf skin and they were put on with pegs you know and uh i always forget you have to tune drums you think you just put the drums down and start playing you got to tune every the snare the everything has to be tuned perfectly yep and and uh so that was my first set of drums the the bass drum was a 28 inch bass drum i could barely see over it you know but but uh so then my dad would play horn and i and i would accompany him on the drums i started

learning all the big band arrangements. I certainly enjoyed playing drums, but, but, but, but, you know, that, that was the, the musician side of me, but, but, you know, I, I, I would sing along with, with songs on the radio, and, uh, after a little while, I, I, I knew that I had a knack for it, and, and, and, and then ended up getting into the school, uh, choirs and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and things like that. And eventually when I started putting together my own rock bands in my mid-teens, it just so happened that out of the guys I was playing with, I had the best voice. It wasn't a really good voice, but it was the best out of the bunch that I was playing with. So I ended up

singing a lot of the songs and started emulating the singers that I liked, who were definitely john lennon um paul rogers marvin gay wow aritha franklin were you a big hendricks fan yeah but not not of his singing yeah i guess the singing yeah i guess the singing was yeah yeah yeah that's uh but but but i got a hendricks story i when i was i think 13 or 14 years old. I knew he was playing in Rochester at the Rochester War Memorial. And I managed to find my way downtown and tried to get in the back door, the stage door. And there were people who had backstage passes and security would open the door to let them in. And I would get a glimpse of Hendricks on the stage. And the music was unbelievable. And then the people were

would go through the door and the door would shut and I'd be freezing outside, waiting for someone else to go in so I could hear a little more. Wow. That is such a, I could just picture you. That should be in a movie. The door opens and you get like 30 seconds and it closes and you're freezing and you're waiting for it to open. That is amazing. When did you start to go, yeah. That came, that came shortly after when I was in, when I was in junior high school, I was I was in the band and I joined the choir or the chorus right right call it choir yeah or chorus yep and that was a lot of fun and that's who is your teacher what was her name or his name that it was Mrs. it was Mrs. Tarbell and Mrs. Tarbell yes so what was

one of those days were just like Lewis let's hear something well I would be singing with the choir and then there would be a there would be a song where in certain sections there would be a little solo part and and i asked her if i could sing that part because when we first learned that i knew the part and i would go home and practice it but she hadn't picked anybody to actually sing it yet so i you're ahead of the game well yeah i asked her i asked her if i could sing it for her and i did and she says you've got it that's it and then and then uh the next year there was something else in the choir where where two people did a whole song, sung a whole song in harmony together and the choir backed them up. And I was one of those two people. And people started paying attention

to you, though. Yes. Yes. Would your mom and your dad say, hey, Lewis? Yeah. They said, they said, you, you sing really good, Louie, you sing really good, you know. Louis. Yeah, Louie. Louis. That's my grandpa's name, Louis. And so that just started, the floodgates open. Actually, I was playing when I first, when I first, I joined a band in Black Sheep. Well, it was the band before Black Sheep. It was poor heart. And I was one of three singers. Three singers. Yeah, it was like Three Dog Night. Ah, you got you. And we eventually cut us an album demo of original songs.

and we never got signed but that was it was a fun experience in a studio and how old are you at this point i'm 17 17 and so after that came black sheep after that came black sheep and i was playing drums and singing in black sheep so phil collins yeah i i'm saved enough money to buy a brand new set of Ludwig drums all black and they were my tom-toms i ordered them special my tom-toms were or 16 inches deep real real big tom-toms my snare drum was a field drum like the marching bands used the big deep ones yeah it had a sound unbelievable and i had a 28 inch base 28 by 14 inch bass drum and and uh those drums sounded like thunder and i had a ball playing them and i was playing and singing at the time.

And you liked that. I liked that. But trying to do both, they both suffered a little bit because you couldn't. It's hard to pay attention to both. That's exactly right. So we decided that we were going to look for a lead vocalist. And we auditioned about seven or eight of them. I didn't want to be the lead vocalist.

I loved playing the drums. Wow. And we auditioned about seven or eight of them. And, and, you know, I'd say most of them couldn't put the songs across the way they should be. And the ones that could were more interested in making money, they wanted to play, they wanted to play the top 40 songs. You don't want that. And make the money at the bar. No, I did not.

And so we ended up finding a drummer. And I moved up to the front. Wow. We got ourselves to the point where we were, we were going to be Kiss's opening act for the whole tour. That's incredible. It's incredible. And we were on Capitol Records, just like Kiss. And we played our first show in Boston at the Boston Academy of Music.

And our first show was with Kiss. We played our whole album. And that's just about enough time that we had to play. You know, you were given about 50 minutes. Yeah. And then they changed the equipment. The main act. The main act.

Yeah. So our first show, we got standing ovation. And we started coming off stage and I turned, I turned to Kisses' tour manager who was standing there with a big smile on his face. I says, what should we do? Should we answer our ovation? And he paused the minute. He goes, yeah, go on.

Go on. Go do one more song. So we went out. We did one more song. and and that got a standing ovation. But we were smart enough to know that. Get the fuck off the stage. Yeah, and we did.

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Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum, Rocket Money. We had a big old Pontiac station wagon, so all the guys in the band piled in the station wagon, and we drove back from Boston to Rochester on Christmas Eve. Icey. Night.

I see. And you know the story. Yeah. They hit a patch of ice on a New York State throughway. The truck slipped off the road and tipped over. And all the equipment was gone? Well, they had bumps and bruises. The truck was not in great shape.

and they couldn't tell how bad the equipment is because they couldn't get the back door open. The box on the truck was not square anymore, so the door opened about two feet, and that's as far as it would go. So we spent Christmas the next day with our family, but early, early the next morning, there were about two or three of us driving back to Albany to get that door open and see where we stood. because we're supposed to be in Florida on the 28th of December to pick up our tour with Kiss. And that's not happening. The drums were out around.

Heavy things had fallen on them and they were not round anymore. They were oblonged. So what you think, why not just get new fucking equipment? Well, we called Kisses' tour manager and told them the situation and they said, you just finished a new album with Capitol Records. They're going to want you to be out promoting it.

They should advance you on your role. royalties so you can get new equipment and another truck and get on the road again. So I thought, that's a damn good idea. So I called Capitol Records and told them what happened. And they said they'd get back to us. And they did about half a day later. And they dropped us from the label. That's, that's asinine.

Asinine. So black sheep's done. That was the end of black sheep. Now, we got our insurance money in April, but, but, but, but, but, but, our career was over then, you know. We missed our big chance. Do you think if Black Sheep would have survived that night and there was no wreck and you would have kept going, foreigner never would have happened with you? I do think that. You know, Capitol Records didn't do us right. We had finished our second album when all this happened. We were touring to support our second album. We

had a following already, you know, and this was going to break us open. And, and, and, And I think Black Sheep would have been the band. Really? I do. The band's very good. Very good. Great players. We had our own sound.

And you would have been okay if that would have happened. Yeah. Have you ever heard any Black Sheep music? Yeah. And it was good band getting better. And you could see the growth between two albums. Wow. And so we would meet about once a week to try and figure out a way to continue.

and and because we hadn't got any money for for the truck accident yet and so we were going to try and beg our parents to get us a small van and enough equipment to play local clubs around Rochester and Buffalo are you still friends are they still alive yes and you're still friends with them very much so I'm doing a reunion show with him in another month or two where are you doing it in Rochester that's going to be incredible yeah we we do I see you get excited when you start talking about this. Four or five years, we do a show. And it still draws a lot of locals.

Now, at this time, you had already met Mick Jones. Matter of fact, our Black Sheep's manager was an A&M records representative. And Spooky Tooth, the band that Mick was in was on A&M Records. So when they came to Rochester, they played the auditorium theater. and our manager says to the guys in Black Ship, would you like to go hear Spooky Tooth? And we said, yeah, we'd love to. So he got us not only tickets to see the band,

but we got to meet them backstage after the show. And I had the two foreigner albums with me. And I met Mick, and I says, you're Mick. I says, give these a listen. To Black Sheep. The two Black Sheep albums. Black Sheep albums. You said Foreign albums.

Oh, sorry. I got the two Black Sheep albums. And I gave him to Mick and I says, this is my band. This is what we're about. He said, oh, great, thanks. So we kept meeting and nothing happened. By the time we got the money for the truck and the equipment, we divided it up between us because we all needed the money desperately.

Right. And, you know, the record label dropped us. And we kept meeting, but we kind of knew that it was. over. Right. And just about that time, Mick called my parents. Somehow got a hold of my parents and my dad called me and said, somebody named Mick Jones called. He wants you to call him back. So he finally listened to the tapes. He got to the record. The record, right. And called me and asked me if I would, he wasn't in spooky tooth anymore. He was living in New York City. He was putting together a new band and wanted to know if I was interested in coming.

to audition as the lead vocalist and i says she's that's that's a great opportunity i says but but you know i'm i'm i told him what happened to to to black sheep and the equipment wreck and stuff like that and and i told them i still believed in in the band's ability to make great music and and we we may be all done i'm not sure yet but i i couldn't come to new york in good conscience without knowing that that whatever I was doing here was done right and so so the next time black sheep met I told them about to call to Mick Jones and they said and what did you say I says I told them that I was still in black sheep and that that's the band what a loyal son of a gun that's the band I believed in and they said Lou he says it's really great that we meet here and we

we try and find a way to keep going but but we all know it's over why don't you go audition and and at least one of us will make it further than we've been so if it wasn't for those guys sort of giving you the okay i wouldn't i wouldn't have done it that loyal yeah and so what was this audition like i mean did he say prepare a song nope so i went to audition and it was at a studio and they had had three or four songs recorded with no vocals. And they had been auditioning people right along. So every time somebody knew came to audition, they would sing on these pre-recorded songs

that the musicians of foreigner had recorded. And a new singer would sing along to them. Looking for the sound. They were looking for that sound. And so I sang. I sang two or three songs. Were you nervous? I was nervous, yeah.

I was nervous. You know, it wasn't like he sent me a tape or anything ahead of time. Yeah. The first time I heard the song, five minutes later, I was in the studio singing it. And you just had the lyrics in front of you.

Yep. You know, so it was a little stiff, but I was ad-libbing a little bit and trying to make it seem like I was... Those Lou things you do. Yeah, trying to make it seem like I've been singing it forever and stuff, So at the end of the day, Mick goes, want to come over to my apartment and have dinner?

I said, sure. So I went over and met his wife and had a nice dinner. And then we went over to the corner of his living room where he had a little lamp and a little keyboard set up and stuff. And he started playing the song that he was working on, you know. What was that song? Long, long way from home. Wow. And so he started to sing me the melody a little bit, you know.

And he says, oh, that's all I've got. He said, I don't have any words or anything. So I had my stenopad with me, and we listened to it a couple times. And I started writing down words, and I kind of started singing the melody to his guitar chords. And then he jumped in and suggest a little phrase, and we incorporate that. And then we cracked the title. And by the end of the evening, that song was complete. Now, were you guys drinking?

Were you having a little pot? Yeah. You're a little high, a little loose. Yes. And you felt good when you left that house. Not blotto, just a little bit, you know? And when I left that apartment to go back to where I was staying, I felt good. but it was still another two or three weeks of that type of thing.

And then during the day, we would go to our manager's office. He had the top floor of a building on 57th and Broadway. Right. And he had offices around the outside and on the inside was a big empty area where we rehearsed. We started rehearsing. Still, I didn't know if I was in the band. I mean, but you wrote a song with the guy. Yeah, I know, but I was.

Were you frustrated? Yes, I was. I was waiting for him in particular to say, Lou, you sound great. We'd love to have you in the band. But it was over a week of working without the satisfaction or the security of knowing that I wasn't just doing this to blow smoke. Right. And then I finally said, Mick, I says, I brought a satchel with me.

I said, I brought three pairs of underwear, three pairs of socks, a change of T-shirts, and that's it. I says, I've ran out of everything I had two days ago. I says, and I've got wet clothes hanging in the bathroom waiting to dry so I'd have something clean to wear the next day. I says, just tell me, am I in or not? Yeah, yeah, you're in. What did you think? I said, I've been waiting for you to tell me that I'm your singer. and he said oh my god he felt embarrassed he goes yeah he says we we've all talked about it

you're the guy we want do you want to be the singer and and i says yes i do that was it and that was it and then started you started the writing and you started the writing rehearsing and they wanted me to move down there they gave me a little money uh i couldn't afford and i couldn't afford a studio apartment in Manhattan that they were they were bringing about $700 or $800 a month at the time and in a decent section and

I and Dennis Elliott, the drummer lived in Armanc Where the hell's Arbong? It's, it's, you know where White Plains is? Yeah. It's it's about 20 miles north of White Plains and

White Plains is about a half an hour from Manhattan. And I ended up moving to a town called Catona. Right. And that was 20 minutes farther than Armagh. So Dennis and I would ride into Manhattan to rehearse every day together. And I would leave my car at his house. So we would rehearse and we'd meet there around 11 in the morning and rehearse until about 9 or 10 at night. I'd never get home before midnight. Are you someone like, if you compare you to the other members of the band, was everyone in it as long as possible, where you kind of like, all right, let's, this is a lot. Like, you know, you want to go home and like, or were some people just, we got to keep doing this. Yeah.

Yes. You were like that? No. No. You wanted to go home. If they wanted to keep going. If they wanted to keep going like that, yeah, my voice, number one. And the other thing is, you want to meet me there at 9 in the morning and we'll go till 11 or 10 or 11 at night.

That's great. We don't start at one in the afternoon and go till three in the morning. Then I got to drive an hour and a half home. Right. Okay. So that's frustrating. Yeah. The work ethic and the amount of driving.

Yeah. I mean, they lived a five-minute cab ride from where we were rehearsing. But you knew something, at this point, you felt something was special. Yes. Mick and I were almost every other night we'd come back to the rehearsal studio the next day with a song. that was either done or mostly done. And now we had those songs that I sang in the studio had my vocal on it. They were sent out to record companies to garner interest.

And now we had record companies from the West Coast come to New York to hear us rehearse. Was that nerve-wracking? Yes, it was. But you did it. We did it. And they all passed on us. All of them. All of them.

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He came? Yeah, he was head of A&R. He was the one. They passed. They showed interest, but they said they weren't sure and they passed. And Jerry Greenberg and the vice president left. And John came back and he says, he says, you know, your songs are really good. He says, but they're all six and seven minutes long.

nobody plays that kind of songs in the radio anymore it's three minutes three minutes and 15 seconds let's take this song which i really like and let's chop this out that's that sounds like filler and mick no six minute guitar solos you know 35 40 seconds and you're back into the song so so we took two songs what songs uh feels like the first time and and i think uh i'm not sure what the other one was. But we we systematically did that to about three or four songs that were five or six minutes long and made them about three and a half minutes long. Change the game. Changed the game. Brought the Atlantic people back on and they heard them and they had contracts in their briefcases. Are you serious? Yeah. And then our manager got involved and we signed with

Atlantic. That is an awesome story. Talk about work ethic and just like everybody passing and saying, oh, do this, do this. And you as artists, you're probably like, no, this is the way we want to do it. Yeah, but, but, but, but what John said about, you know, our songs were five and six minutes long. And we, we, we were listened, used to listening to hit radio from the time, from the time the Beatles and the Stones had their first hits that they were sometimes less than three minutes. Right. And the, and they were at the bottom of the fade. What is your all time favorite foreigner song? If you just had to pick one. I'd say jukebox zero. jukebox i remember listening to that in my parents attic on the 45 over and over as a little guy

just fixated on that song i know every lyric to almost every one of your songs but like jukebox hero is one of the that that's your favorite and when did you write that one i started writing it And my wife and I, from the money that we got from the first couple albums, we bought a, we were living in an apartment and we bought a little house in Catona. It was a two-bedroom, a colonial house on three-quarters of an acre. And it actually had a two-car garage. Wow. Yeah. And it was a cute little place.

And we had our first child there. And, you know, while I wasn't, I hadn't been playing drums now for a while, but I brought my drums with me and set them up in the basement. Boom, boom, boom. Yes. And, and, and I bought a, I bought a TEC four track recorder, real to real. Right. And I had a cheesy little used synthesizer.

Doom, do, do, do, do, do, boom, boom, you know, the beginning of Jupax, I mean. managed to get that sound out of it. Wow. And I had the drum beat, just the basic beat going like the beginning of song. And I started, just came to me, standing in the rain, you know. The lyrics just came to you. Well, yeah. I mean, I had to work at them, but, but, but, but, but, but it, but, but it, but, but, it

wasn't difficult work. It kind of, it kind of, it kind of wrote itself. I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted to play just the intro of it. Well, I get sued. standing in the rain with his hand hung low he couldn't get no ticket was a sold-out show damn heard the roar of the crowd dude i mean that is just epic so i had the teac going and and i put the drums down and and i put the drums down and the vocal down up to a little past that just where it comes into one guitar you know yeah and and uh and then i put the then i put the

keyboard down and and the keyboard pad underneath it you know but i didn't do any guitar because i couldn't couldn't play right guitar but but it was enough to to uh to to to bring to the band mix mix down what i had written onto a cassette and and and didn't bring it to the band brought it to mic first to what he say because i wanted to get his reaction on it and he liked it but but you know we hadn't we hadn't got to the to the course of the song or anything so so he started working with me on it and and you got to that yeah and and and and it it it became that monster isn't it amazing it's like you know I have a passion for music and I play and I have some albums and I just you know it's on a small scale but just a passion but it you know you hear

something and then then you have the hook and but that hook might not be that hook that that everyone gravitates towards and you don't really know that you think it's great but it to me it's so difficult to be able to like your intuition your gut and let it go and see where it falls and see how everybody else reacts did you feel like they're going to love the song this is going be a hit i i wasn't sure because because the the dynamic stretched the gamut standing in the rain you know against the boom right you know it was was very strange to start a song that way and and then word ended up joke box there you know it was the other end of the spectrum and and so atlantic heard heard you know when when we finally played some of the cuts for atlantic they liked the song but

But they came out immediately says, this couldn't possibly be a single, you know. It's just just not. And what did you say? It's just not cut out for a single. I didn't say anything. I left it up to them because, you know, there were other, there was urgent.

There was a bunch of good songs that were, that screamed single. Right. You know, so I just let it go. But AOR radio, album-oriented radio, picked up on Jukebox hero right off the bat. and that was getting as much or more airplay on album radio as Urgent was getting played on hit radio. Wow. Okay. That's incredible.

And that's how it kind of moved into mainstream. That's how it moved into mainstream and made that album fly up the charts. And you looked at your wife and you're like, huh? We did that. Yes. And I think I gained a serious modicum of respect from Mick. as as a songwriter on my own and now you're a hall of fame you know rock and hall of fame songwriters and musicians so so you know that that that kind of

solidified our part writing partnership what is the hardest song to sing from the even when you're the days where you're just young and belting it out what was the song that when you sang you even got a little butterflies like our nerves and going it's it's a hard one. It was that one. And I've been waiting for a girl like you to go way up there. I've been waiting. Yeah. You know, there were time. I try to karaoke that song because it seems, oh, waiting for a girl like you. That can't be that. Well, the verses are, the verses are nice and nice and easy. But when you say waiting, that's it. I'm done with karaoke. And it was that one in jukebox era were the were the biggest challenges wow and your riffs did they love that is it just something where you would

just do these extra things in the song and weave in and out of choruses and just give it a little punch and they're like more of that more of that everyone's into that well yeah um Mick liked when I did that and and and he got to the point where he would tell me what to sing he could hear it well he could hear it and and and and say try singing that try singing that and a couple times it worked and And more than a couple times it didn't work. So when I knew he had an idea to try, he wanted me to try, I was, I, I would, my stomach would do a little flip because there was, there was a chance that it wouldn't be something that sounded natural for me to do.

Right. But he would like it and want it on the record. Wow. Did you ever like sometimes say, no, I don't see it? I don't see it. Yeah. Yeah, I did. I have to really pick those battles carefully.

Right. And the ones that he wanted me to do, and I didn't like him, I would transform them a little bit as I was singing them into something that I could at least accept, even if I didn't like it. I mean, those risks, like, I want to know what love is. It's just like, you're going. It's so big. I want you to show. It's like you're going. And it's like that, I'm just like that is like, I mean, I always said that you have, you're one of the greatest voices in the history of rock and roll, which.

So many people obviously agree, but it's like a song like that where you just, the runs and the fullness and the power of your voice. It's just, it's just, I appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. You know, the thing I liked was that I was able to do that kind of thing and then be able to do hot blooded or jukechero. They're the opposite ends of the spectrum. Yeah. And I was fortunate I could do both styles well. Was there ever a song you're singing and you're just like, I can't sing this?

I can't, I can't do it. Yeah, there's a couple of songs that Mick, Mick wrote that, that, that, I can't, they don't come to mind right now, which ones they are, but, but you just couldn't. Yeah, I had a difficult time singing them because they were either to sing songy or, or, you know, he's a great songwriter, Mick, but sometimes you need Whitney Houston. Yeah, well, no, it wasn't that. It was the opposite in this record. Pee-wee-Herman.

Oh, that high. You know, no, that it was just so basic that, that, that, you know, it was something, I didn't feel it was beneath me, but it just seemed too simplistic. Yeah. You know, how could you go from Juke's hero and who I want to know love is into something that was basically, it sounded like some of the McCartney songs that are almost babyish, you know? Oh, like, Uncle Albert.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that kind of. Yeah, yeah, that kind of thing, you know. And I'm looking at Mick like, you want me to sing that, you know. You know, I'll give you the example. I don't want to live without you. I don't want to live without you. I don't want to live without you. Live without your love.

Right. And I had the toughest time singing that because I didn't want any part of it. Really? Yes. Yeah. You're like, this isn't what I want to do. And I mean, that's like, that's artistry, though. That's like, hey, this is, that's why bands, it's tough because, you know, people have their vision.

You have your vision. You're like, this is what I want to stick to. But my vision was very secondary to mix vision. Right. I don't want to live without you. It sounded like a school child song. It was a big hit, though. But when the second or third grade comes together, not even the choir, just the classroom.

And now children we're going to sing, I don't want to live with a. I don't want to live. It's very basic. I don't want to live without. I don't want to live. And I was, I was like, no. But you have, you have those moments in the song. Now, I don't want to live.

Like you have the big moments. Yeah. But by then, by then it's, it's, it's, it just, it was difficult. do that right right because those moments should come on the tail end of something that that means something you know yeah and i'm i don't want to knock knock nick mix great great song writer but but but like everybody else you know sometimes he just comes up with stuff that's that that you don't get you know get yeah the conjuring last rites On September 5th.

I come down here! I need you! Array! The Conjuring Last Rites. Only on Theater September 5th. You ever kissed someone in the morning? And you wish you hadn't? It's a real turnoff.

Bad breath, that is. is. And that goes for everyone. Yes, I created a product called Rosie's Puppy Fresh Breath. Just one full cap in your dog's water. And wow, it's odorless, tasteless. You'll be kissing your dogs all day. My breath is delicious. Yeah, mine too. It's awesome. Rosie's Puppy Fresh Breath. Get it on Amazon today. I mean, look, every rock star has it. You hear about it. You hear a about it. Did you deal with a lot of issues with alcohol and drug addiction and have to go to get help for all that stuff? Eventually, yeah. I realize that I was out of control and I wasn't the only one and I just didn't like living life that way. It kind of snuck up on me and before I realized

that my my temper and some of my mannerisms were were awesome. I didn't recognize my own personality. Was it a certain moment or just moments that just kind of added up? Moments that added up. And you just checked yourself in? I did. And when was that? That was 1991.

I was in New York and had played Madison Square Garden the night before. And I was supposed to fly home back to Rochester the next day. And all the Atlantic people were there. and after the show it just turned into the party that never ended. I remember wandering back into my hotel room at about 5.30 in the morning and I had an 8 o'clock flight to Rochester to catch

and I ended up calling my attorney who was a good friend of mine at the time and he was there that night the night before too and I says I says, I can't go on this way. I said, I, I, I don't like living this way. I don't like what I'm doing to my life or my family. I says, I have a tough time looking in the mirror in the mornings.

And I've got to take care of this now before, before I completely fall apart. And he mentioned a place called Hazleton in Minneapolis to me. and uh i i um called my wife and and told her about about the the great show and and the party afterwards and that i wasn't making my plane back home i says and and i told her that i decided to to get something done about my problem and what she said she was so happy for me wow that's that's an enormous thing to do i mean it's someone i love i'm very close with finally just got in a rehab and it's something that it you know our relationship kind of just you know it was it was fractured and and you know i did everything i could to help and i finally

i was sort of feeling what that person was feeling and and in my own way like just anxious all the time and what's going to happen to this person and and finally i just said i'm not going to do this anymore and so it was a surprise when they you know they finally got into rehab and they're taking care of it it was just like oh my god i was so happy i mean so happy that i'm not oh my there's a good chance maybe i won't lose this person now you know um and how long were you there like 30 days 30 days that was enough that was enough and ever since uh 30 32 years clean and sober 32 years what was it not 91 i don't know don't tell me about man So it was 1991 I went in there and it's 2009, 29, about 32, 33, 33 years.

33 years. And you don't miss it. No. Did you get, did you have drinks before you went on stage at that time? Not too, not too much. It was mostly after the show that, that everything just fell apart. Well, yeah, I mean, it was party time, you know. Did you ever have a bad show?

You're like, my voice sucked. It was blown. I couldn't get it. Yeah. Every once in a while, yeah. And what do you, is it something you're just like, hey, it's part of it. Well, a lot of it was because we played three shows in a row, had a night off, and then did two shows in a row, and had a night off, then did three shows in a row, and had a night off. And the more we recorded new songs and Mick would write songs that would test the very top of money.

range and you string over the course of an hour and a half of songs with about seven or eight songs that that do that and and it takes more than a day off to recover and you've got to do three in a row before you get your first day off there's no way it's impossible possible i started finding ways to sing around the high notes which which didn't didn't make didn't endear me to the to the to the audience that much they were they were waiting for those notes and i just couldn't hit him yeah understandably yeah i mean would you always finish with like jukebox hero and feels like the first time those were the last songs yeah there was no debate on it these are the songs we're ending with fuck you that was it yeah i can well it feels like

the first time opened the set jukebox hero closed the set close the set what would what is the one concert that you always remember this is this was the best concert of my life life. There was one in Madison Square Garden, for sure, one or two in Madison Square Garden, that were great. Atlantic Records 50th, I think 45th or 50th anniversary as a record label with Ahmed Erdogan there, the chairman, and all the great Atlantic artists from the time Atlantic became a label. Aretha Franklin, who wasn't on Atlantic anymore, but she came there to celebrate.

Phil Collins, it was a lot of people. And you blew it away. We blew it away. As a matter of fact, when we did, I want to know what love is, I was wondering who the choir, if they got a black gospel choir, and who do I think,

who do I see walking on the stage when it was almost time for the choir to sing? Phil Collins, the guys in Genesis, this. What? And you didn't know this? No, the guys in Vanilla Fudge, the guys in, you know, all these great Atlantic bands and girl bands and individual stars. That is amazing. And that brought the place down. I would say that brought the place down. I mean, when you look back at all this success, well, first of all, you were just congratulations on being inducted into the Rockinville Hall fame.

Thank you. How much, honestly, did that mean to you when you heard the news where you like it's about time yeah it it was about time it was it was 20 20 years at least 20 years after after our our peers from the same year range that we started our band and other people started their bands and they were already in the hall of fame 10 years and we were we were wondering what's wrong with us you know and we're going how many hits you know how many albums sold you know and we we just couldn't figure out what in the world was going on somebody at the head somebody who's making those decisions just didn't like you yes that's what it comes down to it's all politics oscars uh i don't know what it's

like in the other the other arena's but but uh i imagine it's somewhat the same did you get emotional when you got in? Well, I was emotional when we got nominated, yeah. And then the votes start coming in from the upper echelon of the Hall of Fame. Then members of the Hall of Fame also carry some clout. And then the public at large also counts. And I think for the most part, We started out behind Ozzy and Peter Frampton,

and then we passed Peter Frampton, and we were behind Ozzie. And then Ozzy was displaced by Dave Matthews. That's right. Dave Matthews. Yeah. And we finished two out of 13, number two out of 13. I think they took the top seven to induct.

Wow. What other bands in the 70s and 80s did you really go? because you're one of the best bands ever. And so, but do you listen to other bands? Of course. Like in the 80s, who is your top two bands that you would listen to and go, I really like this music? I liked R.A.M.

I liked the police. And that's a lot different from foreigner. Yes. I like the clash. The clash. My mother loves the clash. What about the 70s? Oh, geez.

Did you like Zeppelin? Yeah, I like Zeppelin. Yeah. As a matter of fact, they jammed with us. What? We were playing Munich. And we came off stage for our encore. We came off to Tala off, and then people were cheering and stuff.

Then we go back on. We came off in our dressing room in Robert Planton and Jimmy Page. Come on. And they were like, can we jam with you guys on something? so we we jammed hot-blooded with them and then then hot-blooded broke into a whole lot of love and you sang a whole lot of love of course you know every word yeah well i didn't sing the whole song we sang a verse and a chorus you know that is incredible it was cool great standing next to robert plant singing singing with him was just a thrill uh you know and that brought the house down they

wouldn't stop i mean how could it stop that's i mean you've had so many amazing moments you were looking at the Lost Boys VHS tape. You're like, oh, I did a song on that. Yeah, I was, I was recording my second solo album. No, my first solo album. And my, my producer, got a call from Joel Schumacher, who he knew, and said that they were looking for the title song to the movie. Did Lou have anything?

I know you're recording with Lou, does he have anything? and my producer goes, yeah, of course he's got something. I'll have him put a demo together for you. You didn't have anything, did you? Well, I had ideas, but they were all earmarked for my album. Right. And we shuffled through the rough ideas that weren't finished and found one that we thought, given what we knew the movie was going to be about,

we found one that the musical theme, And, and we could shape the lyrics into, into something that would be more. So that, so lost in the shadow. You came up with that to compliment the movie. Yes. Say hello to the night. Lost in the shadow. Perfect.

And they loved it and that was it. They loved it and that was it. And then we did done in the studio, the recording studio, they moved in some props and stuff and we did the video for it. That fast turnaround. Yep. Things happen fast, don't they? When they want to.

my god now a song like that in a hit movie do you make pretty good money yes it's good you negotiate that well yeah we negotiate that that that residuals it ran forever it it it it ran uh uh on on on cable you know it just goes into goes into circulation for years navy seals you had a song yes yes absolutely i mean that's got to be just a treat it's it's a it's a big treat to do that yeah i've always enjoyed it you know one of my favorite songs is just between you and me and midnight blue thank you i love those songs i love when i've seen you play a few times and uh i love your solo career um and you're touring now you've been touring you don't stop touring i even saw you at youtube theater when you kind of came back with foreigner and you got

up on stage and sang a couple of songs what is it about because you know i'm sure you've well you've before, right? You said, I'm done. What makes you come back? It's just a, it's, it's, it's a overwhelming feeling inside that I'm not done. You love it. And I, I, I, I have more creativity and more, more, more of, of the type of rock and roll I like to perform. I have more of that to give. I love it. So I'll be hearing you for a long time. You're touring. Now, where do you love playing mostly uh it could be tim buck too really you just want to play i like to play you like the guys you like hanging out yeah like to hang out uh i like to play good venues whether they're amphitheaters whether they're just regular theaters or or could be a football field

be fine with me now what's special about this i'm going to say some of these names from your band two of these guys are former former alumni yeah alumni Tony franklin on base bass. Yes. He's a great, great bass player. He played with the firm. Yep. And a number of other people. Scott Gilman. Scott Gilman. Sacks. And Rhythm guitar played with foreigner in the in the 80s and the 90s. Really? Yes. He wasn't a member of foreigner, but he was part of our stage show. Ben Cramm. Drums. Ben Graham. Graham. That's my brother. Wait, your brother plays with you? Yes. How cool is that? You're playing with your brother? Now, now...

You've been playing with him a while, though, actually. On and off. On and off. Now, do you guys ever get into it? No. You don't. No, he's got a real even temperament, and I get along with him famously. Now, he's the guy that learned trumpet from my father.

And when I had my drums set up in the basement, I would practice my drums. I'd put the sticks down and go out and ride my bike down the street and play ball or play catch or do stuff with my friends. Then I'd come back to the house and go back down in the basement to play my drums. And the stool was low and I couldn't reach the symbols.

And the snare drum was up to my nose. He was playing. He was playing my drums. He ended up going to Berkeley in Boston for percussion. So he's good. He's great. That's great, man.

Keep it in the family. Jeff Jacobs, Keys. Yep, he played with foreigner in the late 80s. He's in 90s, too. And Alex Garcia. Yeah, Alex is a great, great guitar player. He played with, what's that?

Do you hear a bad bunny? Yep, I've heard a bad money. Yeah. And Jennifer Lopez. Wow. And Jennifer Lopez. Yes. So these are a great bunch of guys, talented as hell.

Talented, funny. We get along famously. I love that. You seem happy. I'm at peace. I'm sure there was a lot of times where you weren't happy. There's a lot of times where I wasn't happy. Me too.

A lot of times where I wasn't happy with myself. or what was going on around me. Do you remember the moment when your parents looked at you and your brothers and sisters and just got to go, oh, my God, our sibling, our son is a rock star? No sisters, just brothers. Oh, just all brothers? One older, one younger. One younger.

So do you remember the moment where they said they looked at you differently in a way? They were very afraid when I started achieving real success. because they i don't know how they knew but but they they were savvy enough to know potentially what a life like that could could do to you you know it could break up your marriage it could ruin your health it could it could uh put you in a nut house yeah you know uh it almost did probably if you yes and and and i i i I would see and read and hear about popular musicians that I respected and thought were talented that just fell apart. Wow.

So they were scared for you. They were scared for me. They were excited, but continue to gently remind me of the pitfalls and that I should keep my eyes open. Did your mom ever say, I want you to come to my hairstylist with him? me i want i want you to meet them she never took it my grandma did that after i was on a show she go come with me when i get a haircut they want to meet you yeah they want to get their hands on your hair yeah i guess and you had some good ass you still have good hair not bad how do you still have such good hair i just take care of it that's all i train i wash it yeah i wash it

right with the right product right this has been yeah with the right but this has been a real amazing amazing time i really did you enjoy them very much this has been awesome i cannot wait to come and see you perform again congratulations on the hall of fame thank you so well deserved thank you thanks for uh signing my foreigner album this is uh this is awesome do you remember posing for that no they just drew it it was based on a picture it was yeah and then then then then somebody did a pen and ink do you have the original picture no did you keep stuff like that did you keep a lot i did but i think mixed the only one as the picture.

Oh, I see. Thanks for being here. This has been awesome. I enjoyed it a lot. Thank you. Bank more on course when you switch to a Scotia Bank banking package. Learn more at scotia bank.com slash banking packages. Conditions apply.

Scotia Bank. You're richer than you think. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true story. behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time.

With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off. We're here to explore the Wicked and Wicked. And Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Could you tell I was a little star-struck? I could. Could you?

Is that not good? No, uh, well. Well, my bad at the beginning for not getting him is close up signing your book. I missed the record button. Well, he was signing my album. He was signing your album. Yeah, so there wasn't. So, but hopefully Jason was able to put it together.

Sounded all great. Yeah, we figured out. So I'm sure Jason will make it look good. But I hope you enjoy that interview. And thank you, Lou Graham. Yes. Well, I guess we need to do our shoutouts to our top tier patrons. uh these are the folks that give back i you know i always say it's like a subscription for like a streamer

you know some people pay 15 bucks whatever some people want to give a buck five bucks 10 bucks whatever there's different tiers support the podcast patrine dot com slash inside of you here are the top tiers people we could not live without ryan nancy d also thank you for coming to the um our show sunspin thank you for coming to this well watch the band. And we played virtually for 55 minutes. And we had a great time. And thank you for all your comments. And we were responding to you. And I hope you had fun. We're going to do another one soon. So be on the lookout on the Instagram. Nancy D. Leah and Kristen, Little Lisa, Y, Kiko, J. L. Jolie, Brian H. Nico P. Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C. Jennifer

N. Stacey L. Jemal F. Janelle B. Mike E. L. Don Suprimo. 99 more Santiago M. Lian P. Maddie S. Belinda and Dave H. Dave H. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom and Talia M. Betsy D. Rian and C. Corey K. Dev Nexon. Yeah, I like those people. Michelle A. Jeremy C. Mr. M. Eugene and Leah. The Salty Ham. Mel S. Eric H. Oracle. Amanda R. William K. Jorell Jamm and J. Who we just talked to. She was at the show. Sunspin band. Thank you. Thank you, GM and Jay. Leanne, Jay, hi, Luna, R, Mike F, Jules, M, Jessica B, Kaley, J, Charlene A, Marlene, Marion, Louise L. Romeo, the band, Frank B, Jen, T, Nikki L, April, April, April, April, R.M, Randy, S, Rachel D, Jen, Carolina, girl. Nick W, Stephanie and Evan, or? Stefan. Charlene A, Don G, Jenny B, 7, 6.

Jennifer R. She's a pirate. Tina E. N.G. Tracy. Love. Love you guys. Keith B. Heather and Greg. L.E.K., Elizabeth L. Ben B. Jammin, P.R.C. Sultan. Ingrid C. Brandon C.

Thanks for all the newcomers joining patron. And for all the love and support. We love you. And couldn't do without you. So from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I am Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Day. That's Ryan Taye is right there.

We give a little shout, a little wave to the camera. All right, be good to yourself. We'll see you next week. A lot of great guests coming up. So make sure you tune in. And I'll see you soon. Football season is here. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros.

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