Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Hall & Oates JOHN OATES: Wake Up Call

Episode Date: December 20, 2022

John Oates (Hall & Oates) joins us this week to share his experience in the music industry and the ups and downs that come with being in a Rock & Roll Hall of Fame inducted, multi million record selling duo like Hall & Oates. John opens up on how he was able to pull himself out of the spiral his life was in during the late 80’s as he wanted to change his image, was dealing with a divorce, and found out that he was being hoodwinked by Wall Street money managers. We also get into the mental health messaging that John includes in his music, who he was most excited to perform with, and some unfortunate things to happen on stage while he was performing. Thank you to our Sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: betterhelp.com/insde 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum uh ryan taez is here yes i am ryan this is our last episode of the year i don't know what that was either this is our last episode of the year we're taking a week off for the holidays um happy holidays to everyone out there happy new year i certainly appreciate you for listening and supporting the show um we keep doing this i thought this would be over years ago ryan i never thought we'd be continued this and what's great is I promise you even better not even better I won't say better but great guests in the new year I mean I couldn't believe I got some of these people so it's going to be a great new year I hope you support the podcast if you can support us at patreon.com

slash inside of you there's different tiers top tiers get to ask questions they get to the guest they get boxes for me and notes and YouTube lives and an occasional Zoom and there's all sorts of but if you if you just want to be a just support the show anything helps a quarter a quarter i mean anything helps the show less than the price of a cup of coffee less than the prices of a cup of coffee and you get entertainment if you like the show a great show today um also a little favor um i want to say hey to tim's superman of steel group on facebook i want to say thanks timmy rock on brother uh also some great the holidays people in need there's obviously food on foot.org for the homeless situation, which is unbearable. Ronald McDonald House, there's

Echoes of Hope.org for foster youth that I'm on the board for. Also, what else? Arm, the animal rescue mission to saving animals, saving doggies. That's what my friend Shira does. And if you want to donate, do it if you can. If not, take care of yourself. Great episode today. Also, a lot of great stuff on the inside of you online store. I mean, there's two smallville scripts that are signed by the like pretty much the entire cast it's a rarity you'll never get these and they're mine that i kept and giving money to charity so there you go so i like doing that so um there's two there's arctic and veritas signed by everybody i mean there's like eight signatures or something on each one so check that out be a good holiday gift and you're

giving a charity so that's nice tons of other cool merch i can't even tell you funcop pop flash poplix, small little pictures, inside of you, tumblers, shirts, lunchboxes, small, little lunch, just tons of great stuff for the holidays. And why don't we give a discount code? Should we do a little discount? Oh, oh, yeah, we should. We should. Let's do 10% off.

Okay. We have everything in the store. Okay. The code will be happy, happy 10. Happy, happy 10. I think that's it. And also, hey, sunspin. It's my band.

You can get CDs and tons of merch on Sunspin. Our new albums out will be streaming in February, but you can get cool merch, new CDs, autograph calendars, all that stuff for the holidays, sunspin.com. And I believe that's it. Make sure you listen to Talkville. The new season's coming out with us, me, Ryan and Welling. Listen to that. We love all this support and it's fun.

I'm having fun doing this. And I hope you guys continue to have fun with us right now. The socials are. Socials are, Ryan. InsideVee Pod on Twitter at InsideVee Podcast on Facebook and Instagram. That is correct, my friend. And yeah, it's been a groovy year. This is a very special interview.

I'm a huge Hall & Oates fan. I have been listening to Holland Oates since I was young. They have so many hits. And John Oates wrote a lot of those hits. And he was wonderful. I was a little starstruck. I held it together. I think you're going to really love this.

You're going to learn a lot about John Oates and how they got along and his new album. and he's such a talented guy and a really great guy. Super talented and great. So, without further ado, let's get inside of John Oates. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Dude, I got to tell you, you look,

damn good, dude. Well, thanks. I won't take my clothes off, but thanks anyway. You sure? No, I'm serious, man. My dad is 70. You look way younger than my dad. Like, way.

Yeah, I know. Everybody tells me that. You know, hey, I went to some clean living and some good Italian jeans on my mother's side. So, you know. What kind of clean living do you do? Well, where's the start? I've been, you know, when I was living in Colorado for 20, years. I was a backcountry skier. I was telemark skier, cross-country skier, biking in the summer,

hiking. I started yoga during COVID, which is one of the best things I've ever done. Should have started 30 years earlier. But, you know, I don't drink or smoke. And my wife keeps me on a short lease when it comes to good food. So, you know, because I can go. I can go in the other direction. I can totally go, I can go sausage, steak, very easy, you know, and I still do, you know, but, um, but you know, we, we eat pretty healthy and I, I try to stay fit, you know. Yeah, I think that's my problem is like my diet is not great. And I don't have anyone barking at me or helping me. I just have me and my dogs. So wake up and there's no one saying, hey, you don't need a Snickers bar at 10 a.m. Yeah. And you know what dogs like to eat.

Everything. It's true. They do like, do you have dogs? No, we, we used to have. tons of animals when we lived in Colorado, but now we lived in Nashville. We actually don't have any pets right now. Cool. Working on a little house dog. Sweet. You know, I got to tell you, I've interviewed a lot of people. I mean, you know, I'm an actor and all that, but like I've interviewed, you know,

Odin Kirk and Judd Apatow and, you know, a lot of big actors. And I've never been more excited. I'm not kidding than interviewing you. Oh, I thought you were going to say, and none of them are as short as you. That's what I thought. no i i'm just messing with i know you can mess with me all you want but i was really excited about this i've seen you 10 times in concert uh i remember one time you were yelling out all right what do you want to hear to some years ago and i go adult education and you go did somebody say

adult education all right let's play and you just played it impromptu and i was like let me let me let me let me let me give you a little insight into some stage craft here all right so basically when you know And this is what I've found. I might be wrong. There might be some people who are actually more authentic and honest than me. But what you basically do is you know what you want to play. And you go, hey, man, what do you want to hear? And then regardless of what you hear, you go, oh, yeah, out of touch.

Man, that's exactly. Let's do it. And that's the one you're going to play anyway, so it doesn't make any difference. But there's ways around it. I'm sure Bruce doesn't do that because Bruce is so, you know, he's so New Jersey cool. is that he just actually takes an actual he's got such a repertoire and his band knows every song he's ever written so they just tried it out have there has there ever been a curveball where you're like let's play something you just haven't played in a while and you're actually

kind of nervous about or you don't put yourself in those situations um not very often you know the thing is we have we have this really amazing problem we have too many hits and it's a problem and it's a you know it's it and i say it jokingly but um but the truth of the matter is you you know, when we play shows, what we found over the years is that people just want to hear our hits. That's what they come to hear, and I think, in a sense, have a professional responsibility to play them.

And in addition to that, they're good, you know. They sound great. Yeah. And they don't seem to age. So, you know, we squeeze in a couple of album tracks here and there during our shows. But basically, the whole note show is a, it's just a hit after hit-after-hit extravaganza. You know, it's funny because, there's nothing worse i'm i'm glad you guys have always gotten this right because a lot of times

you go to see bands that you love and for some reason they don't want to play a lot of the hits they want to tell you what they've been up to they want to and it's not that you don't want to hear those but you really come the fans come for the hits and you guys never let anyone down that's the thing it's like hit after hit or you know and it's it's always a blast is it something you guys talk about beforehand like you know hey this is what we're going to do it's just how it's evolved over the years. We just realized that our show is really, I mean, our songs are good, you know, and they've said the test of time. They don't sound old. They don't sound tired. And I mean, look, you go see Elton John. You know, he's going to do basically the same thing. Go see Billy Joel.

He's doing the same thing. You know, I mean, it's very, it's a fortunate few that have that kind of repertoire that can lean on it. You know, I mean, but that, you know, the release for me is that when I do my solo shows, I do all sorts of stuff. I mean, I'm all over the map. I mean, I'm doing, I'm doing roots music, obscure blues from the 1930s. You know, so that's, you know, I, so I'm able to do that. So I don't feel like I'm constrained when I play a Hall & Oat Show. Because I have a total, you know, outlet to do basically whatever I want. Yeah.

And I want to get into, like, growing up and get into how it all started. But like, I got to say, I was just telling Sarah, your publicist, pushing a rock is a great song. Thank you. Yes, it is. It really is a great song. It's like, you know, people come out with new songs all the time. They're like, hey, this is our new track. And I was actually, I was watching the video.

I was listening to the song. And I was like, it's catchy. It's got a groove to it. Your voice sounds freaking awesome. I don't know how you still have a great voice like this. Yeah. Well, you know, I do a lot of, you know, on my own when I'm doing my solo shows. Obviously, I'm the lead singer, you know, obviously Darrell sings, you know, way more

the majority of stuff on the whole note stuff. So over the years, you know, I guess I've been lucky that I've been able to sing. save my voice in one sense. And the other way is that with my solar shows, I sing all the time. So not only that, you know, since I've been to Nashville, I've developed a relationship with a great engineer co-producer. And we've worked on my vocal. We've experimented with microphones. We've experimented with effects. We've experimented with certain techniques. And little by little, we've honed in on a really cool way to record my voice. Can I play a hair of pushing a rock? Yeah, man. Play more than a hair.

We'll put this in it. Come on. I mean, that's, if you guys don't all download that right now, it is just a at home. Thank you. Yeah, man. It's, I'm channeling one. I'm channeling one of my heroes, Curtis Mayfield on that stuff right there. You could totally hear that. You could totally hear that. You totally hear that. And what I love is that this song has a lot of meaning to it. And, you know, you talk about mental health and you're open with that stuff. And this is a lot of what this podcast is. I mean, I have people come here and we don't just want to talk about fluff and like, you know, we want to get to know people. But, you know, I deal with a lot of anxiety and

depression. I had a dysfunctional family. And a lot of people just don't know how to express themselves or talk. I finally got my engineer Ryan here in a therapy. And he's doing it. And people really respond to that. My fan base, especially, they love hearing about hardships. I love hearing how you face adversity and how you, the song, it's a rallying cry you say to everyone who strives to overcome life struggles and challenges. It's a universal theme, an important message for our time riding on a cool groove. There you go. I said that all by myself.

You did. Did it take you a minute to be so articulate? Yeah, it took me a couple weeks to come up with that. but I'm happy with it. Is this one of those songs where you could feel when you were singing it? Like the lyrics is just, it just, it was easy. Those songs tend to be easier, huh? This song has a crazy story.

I mean, I, first of all, I have never re, okay, this song was written in 2014, originally. I was doing an album called Good Road to Follow. The theme of the album was a collaborative album where I was going to reach out to people I really liked and respected and wanted to work with them. So, I mean, I had Vince Gill, Ryan Teter from One Republic, hot shell ray, young pop group, some country people. And so it was really just a great way to step into other people's creative worlds and see what they do and how they do it. So at the time, I reached out to one of the first people I met in Nashville years ago was Nathan Paul Chapman, who really started Taylor Swift off from the time when she was a young teenager to, doing demos and up until her first, you know, three or four albums, which were huge, you

know, and she became a megastar. Taylor had moved on around that time, and she was using different producers. And I called Nathan and I said, man, I'm doing this project and I know you're not working so much with Taylor anymore. Maybe we should try something. And he was like, man, he goes, that would be amazing. He goes, I could use like a creative, you know, kind of lift. And I said, and then I started thinking about, you know, maybe he, you know, what kind of struggles he might be going through or you know and there was things that they were going on in my life and i came up with the greek you know taking a take off on the greek myth of sycophis you know struggling to push a rock uphill and i thought it was a great idea i went to nathan's house uh in the same little room where he

cut all the tailor stuff and um i laid the idea on him and he said man this is great let's do it so we wrote the song recorded it back on that album but i was never really happy with it i i think I kind of let, it was kind of my fault because I did the music and I, it wasn't, it wasn't as good as the lyrics. Let's put it that way. And so over the years, I played it live over the years. And every time I play it, I change it because I just didn't feel comfortable with the original version, but I never locked into the right version. Then during COVID, I revisited the song yet again. And I looked at the lyrics. I said, man, this is just as important now, probably even more more pertinent, more on point.

And I said, man, I'm going to try to come up with some new music for this. And I used about 98% of the lyrics that are identical to the original. And then I rewrote the track. And then I called Nathan up and I said, hey, man, I got a surprise for you. Remember that song we wrote back in 214? Well, I said, I changed it. And I played it for him. And he said, man, it sounds great.

He goes, this is the way it always should have sounded. I said, okay. And I got the stamp, but I got a stamp of approval. So I went in the studio and cut it this way. I mean, how rare is that? Nobody does that. It's seldom that you go back to something you wrote seven years ago or how many years ago and go, you know what, we just didn't get it right when we put it out the first time.

Let's do it again. Yeah, yeah. You know, I have never done it. And I've always felt like personally, philosophically, I guess you'd say, is that a recording is a time stamp, has a timestamp. It's a moment in time. You're capturing something. It's who you were at the time, what you were doing, the play. the engineers, the studio, that thing, all those components that make up on a recording.

And I never wanted to mess with that. But on this song, I just something was telling me that I had to take it to another level. Yeah, pushing a rock. And you find that on Spotify everywhere, right? Well, if it's not everywhere, I'm going to be really pissed off. Inside of You is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before.

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Exactly. And are you releasing more singles as we go on? The whole idea is that during COVID and from the actually last year or so, I've been writing like a crazy person. And I have all these new songs. And I said, now I've got to get them out. And I have never done a totally digital release. This is the first recording I've ever done in my first recording I've ever done in my. my whole life, either with Darrell or by myself, where there's no physical product involved.

Now, not to say that there might not be down the road, but, so I reached out to the Orchard, and there's a company, a digital marketing company called Blackbox, and I talked about, hey, let me step into the modern world here and just do a digital release. And we came up with a, came up with a concept that I thought that I had never heard about before. And they told me it's called Always On, which means you're always there. Like you're in the digital realm on those digital DSPs. Your music is always there. There's always something out.

And you can release something every week or every hour or whatever you want to do. And I said, I never thought of Rick. You know, I always thought in the old school way, you know, you make an album. You know, you got 10 songs or 11 songs. You make an album. You release the album. They said, no, just keep releasing stuff. So the concept is to release a song every month for the next six, seven months.

And we'll see where that puts me. And then if people want it, want to hear it as a collection, sure, we'll make a collection out of it. I love that. And you also teamed up with Movember. I read the Rolling Stone interview, which is awesome. The leading international men's health charity ahead of the nonprofit's annual fall campaign where men grow mustaches to raise awareness and funds for men's health issues focusing on mental health, suicide prevention and testicular prostate cancer. I think that's badass. Does that mean you're going to grow it and then you're going to shave it again? Are you going to keep it this time? What do you think? I don't know. I mean, I always liked you with a mustache.

I read the Rolling Stone. I mean, I can't grow on. It just looks sloppy. I look like a frat boy or something. Like, I don't know what I. It just doesn't look right with me. Your face fits it. You have a good mustache.

That's only because you've seen me for 40 years with mustache. You're saying you're a facially follically challenged. I don't believe it. I mean, I can grow it. It just doesn't look right. It doesn't stand out. Yours is like, and by the way, I know I read a lot. of the article and I know that you're like, hey, you know, people, you know, there's a, there's a,

you were split on it. You like the mustache, but also people would associate you like, oh, the mustache, the mustache. And it's funny because my friend John Heater, he's, he's, he's, he's, he's Napoleon Dynamite. Did you ever see Napoleon Dynamite? Yeah. Yeah, sure. He's one of my best friends. And I always mimic him. I always, you know, I was just, you know, I was just, you're a freaking idiot. And he's like, he goes, are you, are you, are you talking like me? And I'm like, Yeah, he goes, you're just jealous because Lex Luthor doesn't have a distinct voice, you know, because my character didn't, he just talked like me. So in a way, I mean, it's like, it's kind of, it's you.

It's your trademark. It's like people recognize you. They remember you. I think it's a cool thing. I mean, I'm sure you had your ups and downs with it. What happened was at the end of the 80s, there was lots of changes going on for me. You know, we had done, had this insane decade of mega pop stardom. and my my was changing as a person and I I wanted to you know I wanted to leave that guy who jumps

around the MTV videos I wanted to leave him behind I was getting divorced we didn't we didn't have a manager there was some financial issues and I just said that the mustache seemed to to represent that other guy that I didn't want to be anymore and we're moving I was moving into the 90s and I just thought it I need to change I need to do something new and so it was represented of that that's when I shaved it off and then Then I moved to Colorado, lived in the mountains for, you know, 20 years and never really grew it back. It was a thing.

But now I'm more involved now. I can handle it. I don't have, I don't have that same connection to it. To me, it's just facial hair. Right. When you moved to Colorado, is that when you became friends with Hunter S. Thompson? Well, we were, yeah, we were his neighbor. We were his closest neighbor.

I'll tell you a very, very funny story about that. We, when I met my future wife, we were dating at the time, you know, we weren't married yet. And we were getting very serious. And I, we were living, you know, I was living in my little condo. I had this little condo out there. And we're thinking about buying a house. And she comes from a farm. She grew up on a farm in Illinois.

So she's always had tons of animals and things like that. So she found this piece of property out in Woody Creek, which is right outside of Aspen. And, you know, where you had a barn and you could have animals, et cetera, et cetera. So the real estate agent was a really good friend of mine. we go out there and we're standing on the property kind of looking around and all of a sudden we hear these two shotgun blasts and then all of a sudden and the little barn that we're standing next to had a metal roof and all of a sudden pellets going all over the metal roof and I'm like what the hell's going on he goes oh that's your neighbor that's that's that's that's hunter don't

worry about it he's fine and I'm like okay I said wait a second I said we're going to move into a house that's literally shotgun distance from this guy who's done. Oh, no. I think he should. No, I'm serious. I think he knew that someone was going to buy the property and he was putting a shot across the bow. You know, seriously, metaphorically, of course. Yeah. And I was like, and he said, no, no, he's great, man. Don't know, it won't be a problem. And so then over the years, we became friends and, you know, we'd go up there and watch Monday night football with him and the sheriff and all that. And, yeah, you know, he was, if he liked you, he was fantastic, you know, and he liked being hunter. You know, he liked being hunter. You know, he liked. He liked the slouch hat with the cigarette holder in the motorcycle and the big glass of, you know, gin or whatever he was drinking. But, you know, deep down inside, he was a southern, he's from Kentucky. He was a southern gentleman. And, you know, we didn't see a lot of each other. But, you know, we went to his funeral, the one that Johnny Depp, you know, put on where they shot his ashes out of a cannon.

We were there for that. Wow. It was, it was crick and crazy. So, yeah, even now, we still have our house there. And if you drive out our lane, you drive directly. into his driveway. It just seems like it'd be hard to talk to someone like because they're kind of out there and philosophical, or was he more down the earth that you can easily carry a conversation

once you got to know him a little bit. Well, you know, you fucking talk like this. You know, God, that's all the time. You know, it's funny. I was asked to write this article for a magazine in Colorado or Aspen. And what had happened was in that little barn that we were thinking of buying, his red landshark, the one from fear and loathing was in that barn. And I said to the real estate agent, I said, why is this guy's car in someone else's

property? He goes, oh, that's Hunter. Is it just? And he had put a padlock on the door. And it wasn't his property. And he said, well, this is Woody Creek. This is not like other places. He goes, you'll get to, you'll figure this out. So when the time came, we were going to use this little barn as a kind of guest house. We were going to convert it to an apartment, and live there while we, you know, built the rest of the house. And so the keys were in the car. So I jumped started it. And I, because I went to his house, knocked on his door, he never answered.

So I just literally pulled the car straight up in front of his kitchen door and just left it there. And 20 years went by, he never said a word to me about it. I think he just thought it appeared, you know, just like appeared in front of his house. That's funny. What the fuck is that. Yeah. No, no, it was great. You know, we, um, that's cool.

That's cool. We'd go up there and watch Monday night football, and I got all kinds of stories. We'll have to talk about those sometime because I am interested in that. Now, you grew up in Pennsylvania, right? Yeah, right outside of Philadelphia. And did you have a pretty normal upbringing? Were your parents there? Were they cool?

Were you? Yeah. You did. You had a pretty, I did. I had a very, very solid upbringing. My parents were together their whole lives. And yeah, it was a good upbringing. I have to say.

And I think that's why it was even more traumatic at the end of the 80s. when I went through this kind of change of life and I had all these challenges with divorce and all that and money, it was even more traumatic for me because I had never experienced anything like that. I had never experienced any kind of turmoil or upheaval. So it really hit me hard. And that's when I did some therapy and started to look at strategies on how I was going to go forward and, you know, and that led me to really moving to Colorado. inside of you is brought to you by rocket money if you want to save money then listen to me because i use this ryan uses so many people use rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps

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So I played something else. I got in a different sport. But you were a good wrestler. You went on to wrestle for Temple University? Yeah, I was pretty good. We had a great. The school I went to, high school was a great wrestling school. We had number of state champions.

I was a, I won a couple championships, league championships and regional district championships, things like that. But I wasn't that good. But it was, you know, you're right. Wrestling's like probably the hardest sport you can do. You have to starve yourself. You have to be incredibly fit. And yeah, there's a lot to it. But you know what?

It helped me in good. It kind of gave me some strong bones and connective tissue. Could you still throw the cross face cradle? I can do all that stuff. You can still do it? But yeah, I don't know if I'd be able to wake up the next day. It's the most exhausting sport there. As a minute wrestling feels like the end of the world.

That's it. You're done. Yeah, you know, one time, I think it was in the late 70s. I went back to my high school. school because I was really good friends with the coach. He was a mentor to me. And I went back to the high school. And I made the mistake of like trying to wrestle with the kids. And I got my ass kicked. And I was like, I was like, okay, I realized, you know, I'm too far out now. Yeah, it hurts too much. How old were you when you were playing music? When did you get in the

music? Was that an early age? I started when I was, as soon as I could talk. I have a recording with me singing, here comes Peter Cottontail at four years old. And then I have a recording of me at about eight or nine singing All Shook Up, the Elvis song, that we did in Coney Island in one of those recording booths, you know, where you put a coin in and sing and then the record sliding out. So, yeah, well, I was, I always sang, my parent, my mom was a bit of a stage mom. She got me up in front of people at a very early age. So I made my first money at the Jersey Shore singing Valore in Italian when I was like, you know, probably nine or ten. Wow.

I won a talent contest. I got 20 bucks. I thought, hey, this is the way to do it. This works. Did you think back then, what age was it? You're like, you know what? I want to do this. I think I could do this.

It doesn't seem like it happened that early, right? That you were like, this is my career. This is what I'm going to get into. I never thought about it. I just kept doing it. I joined a band, you know, in seventh grade. was in the same band through junior high in high school. Then in college

the band finally broke up and that's when I met Darrell. I just, you know, the way I looked at it is people never really stopped clapping. So I kept doing it. You probably told the story, but do you remember the day you met Darrell and something clicked? Yeah, I remember exactly. We were, he had a group called the Temtons.

I had a group called the Masters. We both had singles out. It was in the summer of 1967, in Philadelphia. They were both being played on the same radio stations. So I was aware of him. He was aware of me. We were invited independently to go to this record hop, which was what DJ's, you know, a teenage dance, basically.

And while we were waiting backstage, there was a gang fight. And so broke out in the crowd. And so his band and my band, we went in a service elevator down to the street, and that's how we met. And then we just, we were both going to Temple University. we kept seeing each other around. Then he lost a guitar player. My band broke up, two of the guys got drafted to Vietnam. And I joined his group as a guitar player.

That group broke up, and he and I started hanging out. Jeez, just by happenstance, if that elevator, you know, if that fight didn't break out, you probably wouldn't have met that night. There'd be no haul and oats. Yeah, well, you know, a lot of things happened. I mean, if I wouldn't have picked Temple University, you'd go to college. I mean, I had a bunch of other colleges I was looking at. you know was just hey things you never know how things are going to work out who is the more

outgoing of the two of you when you met were you both kind of outgoing ladies men like kind of like just having fun everything was simple then everything was simple then that's for sure uh it's not the same as it is now that's for sure uh no you know we were hippies you know we just kind of tripped around and did things and Philadelphia had this little hippie community downtown and we were part of that and so you know I was playing in a blues band Darrell was doing some studio work and then eventually he played in a bar band and none of the things that we did independently seemed to click and then the crazy part is is that after I graduated from college in the spring of 1970 I wanted to go to Europe so I had a motorcycle and I had a few other things I sold I got I think I

had 400 bucks and I had a backpack and a guitar and I went to Europe and I hitchhiked around Europe for four months and during that time I sublet my apartment to Darrell's sister and her boyfriend And so when I got back in October, after being gone for four months, I went to my apartment and there was padlock on the door because they didn't pay the rent. And I had nowhere to go. So Darrell was living, you know, not very close, a few blocks away. So I just put my backpack and guitar back on, walked down the street, knocked on his door and said, hey man, your sister kind of screwed me up here.

I got nowhere to live. He said, oh, don't worry about it. Why don't you just go upstairs and sleep on the couch up there? And so I went up to the top floor where, by the way, where his electric piano was. And then I slept on the fold-out couch and he'd come up. He'd start playing a piano. I'd pull out my guitar and we started. Next thing you know, we were writing songs and there you go.

It was that easy. It was that just messing around. And all of a sudden. We had known each other for three years prior to that, but we hadn't really worked together. And did you know you had something special or was it just two guys having a good time? No, no. In fact, we made a first record. at the Temple University radio studio because we could get in for free and we did this tape of a song that we wrote. It was so bad. It was horrible. What was it? What was it called? Oh, it was some stupid hippie dipship. And we both looked at each other and went, let's just hang out. This is never going to work. Because his voice was very high and pristine. My voice was kind of, you know, low and rough. And it just, it's just, it.

it sounded horrible. And little by little, you know, I guess, I guess, I don't know what, you know, he, he, he went this way and I went this way, and we kind of figured out a way of singing together. And what was the first song that you could go, holy shit, you know, this is better than that recording we did at Temple University. This is something cool. We had, we had, you know, the first album we did was just a collection of stuff that, songs that I had, songs that he had, it wasn't really conceived like a record. But we got a contract, so we made the record for Atlantic Records. And it was really the second. album, the abandoned luncheonette album, where it really came together. And that's what She's Gone was on. She's Gone was on that song, that album. And that song was, you know, I call that the perfect storm. That's the perfect creative storm. Everything about that was right, was the right producer in the right studio, with the right song that we had written, with the right players. Everything about it was just perfect. And, you know, it's just one of those things.

It's produced by Arif Martin, one of the world's great producers. One of, you know, one of the greatest producers of all time. That's Bernard Purdy playing drums, one of the, you know, probably one of the greatest R&B drummers of all time. You know, it's just, like I said, it was the perfect storm. It was the right people, the right circumstance,

and we had written the right song. And at first, it was just your guitars and singing the song. That's it. Well, when we wrote it, it was, I was playing acoustic guitar, and Darrell was playing electric piano. And that's how we wrote it.

We wrote it in about an hour and a half. You wrote that song in an hour and a half. Oh, yeah. If that. If that. I had gotten stood up on a date for New Year's Eve. And so while I was sitting in the apartment by myself, I just picked up the guitar and I thought, well, she's not coming. She's never gone. And I said, oh, she's gone. And I started doing this like fokey, like Cat Stevens kind of thing. And it was like, she's gone. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And I was kind of messing around with that for a while. And then the next day, Darrell came back to. to the house, to the apartment, because we were sharing an apartment. And I played it for him. And he sat down at the piano and he said, oh, that's cool. And he started going, oh, going to do, which is the piano riff that you hear.

Oh. And we just wrote it. And we just looked around the apartment. And I remember, like, you know, in the course of writing, just walking into the bathroom and it was toothbrush, you know. Hanging on the stand or whatever. Yeah. It's all, you know, afraid.

And, you know, I probably, I probably was using the same toothbrush for four years or something. but um and it was just that you know just taking these you know snapshots of life of loss and loneliness and just putting it together the right way you know and so you go back and forth like you did on numerous songs where you'd come up with a little line and you go how about this and you just go back and forth with like different yeah yeah yeah exactly um and i you know i can't remember you know who came up with it but it doesn't matter at this point but that that line everybody's high on consolation. That's like, I mean, you think about that line. That's a really good line. Yeah. You know? And that was, that was the kickoff. Once, once that line, that's the beginning of the

song was like, okay, now we know what this is about. Let's go. And, you know, we just wrote it. You know what else could have worked? Because I always used to mess up the lines when I'd sing it. Everybody's high on constellation. Oh, I know. And that's what everybody thought it was, of course. Of course. It's astrology. Just like, yeah, yeah, that was, well, we were. hippies. So, you know, maybe astrology thing could have worked, but constellation's way better. Consolation's way better. But, you know, just like people think it's kiss on my lips. It's kiss on my list. It's not, your kiss is not on my lips. Your kiss is on a list of the best things in life. It doesn't necessarily it is the best thing. I love that you're talking about this because it's like stuff that I'm

like, I grew up on. I'm like, you know, how did all this happen? Because I have a band and I had a band and we sold about 80 million records less than you guys sold. So, uh, that's a good one. And I know that it was very difficult for me. We just always, I don't know any band that hasn't gotten fights, hasn't gotten like, no, this is cooler. No, this is cooler.

And it would get, some of these fights were explosive. Like I'd be like, fuck you. Get the fuck out of my house. I fucking don't. I mean, I, and this was a band that was. nothing. So I can't imagine the pressures and your guys are making money and you're writing songs together. There's egos and there's, I don't know how you lasted as long as you did because I don't know one band. I was watching the Beatles documentary. You know, and then one day,

what's his name? George Harrison just goes, okay, well, I think I'm going to quit the band now. Like, what? Yeah, well, that wasn't a good career choice, but he did just fine. George It's just fine. Now, you know, I think Daryl and I both are very non-confrontational people. And we would rather, you know, kind of just go our separate ways and just let things simmer down and then figure out a way around it. Yeah, it's, you know, it's really amazing that we've been able to stay together this long. Yeah. And, you know, we've been together for over 50 years.

And the way I look at it, it's like 50 years is long enough to do almost anything. So, you know, at this point now, you know, we, we, you know, if we play a show again, which we will at some point, great. And if we don't, that's okay too. You know, it is what it is. So you've learned to like, oh, hey, there's been ups and downs. There's been all this stuff. But like at the end of the day, we did something great, you know, and it's a miracle as far as I'm concerned. It is a miracle that we were able to create what we created and to stay together long enough and have those amazing experience.

in life and traveling around the world and playing live aid and we are the world and you know all these Apollo theater and all these like kind of you know these watershed or not watershed but you know these these like iconic moments you know um and so you know what more do you want what more you want in life yeah did you ever were you ever like in a not a good place and you're both on stage and you have to pretend you love each other and you're like god I fucking don't want to be here neither to see yeah yeah last week are you serious how does that no no but what do you do you just you have to just move on right yeah you just you know what it's called being a pro you know look there's plenty of there's plenty of groups out there that

don't like each other necessarily oh yeah all okay and you know what so whether it's you know it may be greed it may be professional pride it may be um you know it may be because you're other you the next car payment and you can't figure out how to do it. Who knows what the motivation is? It doesn't matter. You know, I think there's a lot to be said for being a pro. You know, you can just get past the other crap and just do it. Yeah.

You know, I talked about I deal with anxiety and stuff. And I have some, I won't mention his name, but I have a friend who he has to, he's a huge musician. He's played one of the biggest bands in the world. You know him. You probably worked with him. I won't say his name. I love him to death.

But I say, I mean, how do you do it? You're in a stadium with 50,000 people and are your nerves going on a while? Don't you have anxiety? He goes, I take like a quarter of a Xanax before every show for his, that's what he does. Have you done something like that? Did you ever drink before you played? Did you ever get? Yeah, well, I have never been a big drinker.

I don't drink at all now. But even when I was drinking, I realized very quickly. And actually, it was mostly what I discovered when I was doing my solo shows. If I had a drink, I was sloppier. I wasn't as accurate, especially with playing. My vocals were okay, but my ability to play the guitar was not as good. So little by little, I realized that, you know, it's just I'm better when I'm sober. It's as simple as that.

Do you get anxiety? Have you dealt with anxiety in your life? Oh, yeah. Well, but anxiety from outside sources. Most of my anxiety, I finally realized that, you know, and now that I can look back on my life and, you know, with a little more perspective, most of my problems, in fact, all of my problems in anxiety had to do with me being trusting and having people who I thought I could trust not be truthful and not be honest. That has been the source of all my issues. I try to be a nice person. I try to. You know, I try to treat people fairly. I try and I try to be as honest as I can, you know, in a really dishonest business. You know, if you know anything, obviously you're in an entertainment business.

You know, it's a shit show. Yeah. So, but that's where my issues are. My issues are trusting people and having them stab me in the back and having them not, not be who you were hoping they would be, or at least giving you the, you know, the courtesy of being straightforward. That's a big issue for me. Reading, playing, learning. Stellist lenses do more than just correct your child's vision.

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has your best interest well they they all never have your best interest it's what's for me what how do i benefit from this person and you know in your lifetime if you meet a handful of people that you can really trust and you know and know it's unconditional the love and you know, reciprocation, you win. But you have to weed out. A lot of times you have to go through those things, as you know more than I do. What was the, was the hardest time in your life, really the end of the 80s, sort of like reinventing yourself, going through a divorce? What was it that? How empty or how low did you actually get? Because I know you talk about mental health, but what were, how desperate did you become? Well, I talk about it in my book, you know,

I have an autobiography called, A Change of Seasons. And I, you know, I talk. about it in the book, I describe it. Yeah, there was an issue. There was an issue with some money and things like that. And it was kind of a, I had, you know, and I'll just say it again, I had been called down to a meeting on Wall Street with some money managers who, here again, I had been trusting for years. And I found out that I didn't have what I thought I had. And it was kind of a wake-up call. And I remember, you know, kind of being shocked. And it was kind of an after hours meeting in this big Wall Street, you know, high-rise. And I remember the head of the firm, you know, this much older guy, you know, he walked me out to the elevator and he could tell

I was, you know, pretty shaken up. And he said, look, he said, I know this is, you know, you probably think this is, you know, the worst thing that's ever happened to you. He goes, but I'm going to tell you, I think it's going to be the best thing it ever happened to you. And with that, the door, the elevator door opened, I got in the elevator and went downstairs. So I got in a cab, and I head up to my apartment in the village. And at the time, I was separated for my wife. We were about to get divorced. And so I gave her all the furniture.

There was nothing in the apartment except a TV at a bed. It was very depressing. But before I got there, I was in the cab. And as I was riding uptown toward my apartment, I started getting pains in my chest. And I thought my, and I had never had experience anything like that. You got to remember, I was in my 30s. Yeah. And I went, oh, my God, I'm going to have a heart attack.

I'm going to die in the back of this cab. And I said, this is fucked up. I said, die by myself in the back of a cab at night in New York City. And I got pissed off. And I said, I'm never going to let this happen to me. And I, but I had pains in my chest. Look, spoiler alert, it didn't happen. Just saying that.

I want to let you know. But anyway, so I went up to the apartment and there it was this like really depressing, dark apartment with no furniture. And I'm standing there going, this is fucked up. I said, I'm, I'm doing, I don't know what I'm going to do, but it's not going to be this. And that's when the whole thing started. That's when I started therapy. That's when I made the decision to leave New York. I sold everything I owned, which was considerable.

I had a lot of, as they say, I might not have a lot of cash in the bank, but I had a lot of shit. Right. You know, I had apartments and a house in Connecticut. I had an airplane. I had shipped his car collection. I sold everything, literally wholesale everything. And I just moved to Colorado and start. it over again. That's where I met my future wife that had a house, I built a house, had a kid,

you know, blah, blah, blah. You know, it's amazing. You think about that stuff and you look back. It's like there's nothing more important than your health. I mean, they always say health as well. I mean, in the end, it's like money and all these other things, they don't, they don't matter. They really don't matter as they make life easier, of course, and they make, you know, but if you're not happy with money, you're not going to be happy, you know, or if you're happy without money, you're not going to be happy with my right if you're not happy with me you know what i was fucking talking about oh jesus christ um but everything got everything got better one of the best things i've heard in a long time yeah well you know if you hang around me long enough i put my

foot in my mouth quite frequently yeah good um i love it do you what's more important to you uh the rock and roll hall of fame or rock and roll songwriter's hall of fame songwriter's hall of thing, no doubt about it. Because, I mean, look, don't get me wrong. Being in Rock and Roll Hall Fame is a great career move. It's fantastic for your career. But if we wouldn't have written the songs we wrote, we wouldn't be in the Rock and Roll Hall. Right. So to be, and really, I like to, you know, I'm a history buff. I love the history of American pop music, you know, dating back to the early days of radio and the record player, you know, and I, you know, I'm a little bit of a self-styled, you know, music historian when it comes to that. And to be included in this

great, you know, honestly, a great pantheon of American songwriters, you know, I mean, you're talking about George Gershwin, you're talking about Cole Porter, the Brill Building, you know, all these amazing, you know, I mean, I think American pop music is one of the America's greatest export to the world. There's no negative to it. Everything about it is positive. It's one of the few things I think that we can actually stand behind and say we've never had a problem with American pop music influencing people around the world. And so, you know, to be a part of that, that exclusive club is pretty heavy duty. You ever fuck up on stage?

I mean, royally, like you just butchered a song in front of 50,000 people. No, but I pissed my pants once and I had black pants. So it didn't matter. So I got through the set. You did. You pissed your pants. Years ago, I drank, I drank white. too much espresso before I went on stage.

And you just sort of like I can't gleeve, so I'm just going to piss myself? Well, I wasn't about to stop the show. I love how honest you are with that. You know, it's funny. I remember doing. Hey, listen, I am so way past all this stuff. I don't care anymore. I love it.

I remember this director, he's a good friend of mine, Greg, and he was directing an episode of the show. I was on. And I was like, hey, listen, man, here's what I think I should do? He's like, uh-huh, uh-huh, I go, dude, what's the matter with you? Because I just, I go, I go. oh my i looked down and he had just pissed him to he wasn't wearing black jeans he was wearing beige he had pissed himself he's like i go gregg you just pissed yourself i know i have to go

it was just oh man but i've shit myself so we don't have to get into that so we're human we're human anyway um what's your the one concert you look back and say that was the most amazing thing i've ever been a part of that one concert the apollo theater with eddie kendrick and david Ruffin, when we brought Eddie and David out and reprised the Temptations medley, that we, you know, Darrell and I were both Temptations fans. Darrell was actually friends with the original group. And when I first met Darrell, one of the first things we did was we went to New York City and we went to the Apollo Theater and we hung out in the dressing room with the Temptations.

This was probably 68 or 67. And we sat in the front row and watched the temptations at the Apollo Theater, the original group with Eddie Kendrick, David Ruffin, you know, Paul Williams and, you know, Melvin, Franklin, and Otis Williams. And so then we were asked to reopen the Apollo after it had been renovated and it was a big deal to play the Apollo. And so we asked Eddie and David if they'd come and sing those songs with us. And we were on stage. We did the steps. We did the choreography. And it was like, honestly, it was like tripping. I thought it was like I could see myself. from above.

It was like I was not, I was, and you know, people talk about out of body experience. It sounds all hippie, dipy and everything. Right. Honestly, it was an actual out of body experience. I remember almost as if I was looking at my doing it in real time. You know what? Out of all the songs you've written, I mean, Sarah Smiles, she's gone out of touch, make my dreams. I can't go for that manny or adult education, uh, pushing a rock, all these songs.

What is the one song that you're like, I, I love that song more than any other song. I mean, I know they're all your babies, but if there's one, you had to choose like, this is, this is the song that I love the most. Well, you know, I'll always say she's gone because it's a song that put us on the map. It's a song that started our whole career. So how can you not, you know, choose that one? But I have to say, and I know, sounds like so, shameless self-promotion, but pushing a rock is a really important song for me. I think I've defined myself on this song as a singer, as an artist, as a producer, more than any other song I've ever done as a solo artist. So it's a it's extremely important to me. I'm going to post

the video too of the song once this interview comes out like separately. Because I love I love it so much. I think the song is is just super in your vocals and it just it just feels good. It's such a great song. I had no idea you wrote co-wrote one of my favorite songs, Electric Blue by Ice House. Dude, that is one of the best songs. It is a good one. It's a good one. Yeah. Electric blue. You know that song, Ryan? On my knees. I'm sorry, I don't have to sing it to you. You know the song. You know the song. Yeah. I'll tell you. Yeah, go ahead. You want to hear a story about that? Please. You got me going now. So, all right. I met, I ran into Iva Davies, who's the lead, lead singer and lead person, basically, in the group Ice House. I ran into him at a hotel in New York City that we're both staying in. And, And, you know, I knew Ice House. I was fan of the band, and we started talking. And I was kind of in a little bit of downtime.

I wasn't really working too much at the moment. And he said, hey, would you ever want to come to Australia and, you know, maybe we could write something? And I said, oh, I love Australia. Let's do it. So he brought me to Sydney. And we, you know, we hung out and we were there, you know, and I was only going to be there for about, you know, a week, five days. And we were messing around and things weren't clicking. And it was kind of like, you know, I was getting a little nervous because, you know, he brought me all the way down there.

felt like it wasn't delivering in a sense. And he was just, it was the beginning of when people were just starting windsurfing. And so he was like into windsurfing. And we were both frustrated. He said, oh, come on, let's just go to the beach, man. We'll clear our heads or whatever. And he goes, I'm going to go windsurfing. You can go hang out on the beach.

So, yeah, great. So we'll go to the beach. And I don't know if you recall, but back in those days, and all the beaches were topless in Australia. And so I was sitting on the beach. He was out there windsurfing. And so I'm sitting there and this gal comes walking up toward me and she's topless, but she had these incredibly blue eyes.

I was trying my best just to look at her eyes, at her face to keep my eyes focused on her face. And it just popped into my head, electric blue. I went, oh, okay. And then when we went back to the studio afterwards, I said, look, I got this idea. And I said, and I told him he laughed, you know, and I said, let's write a song about this girls. eyes that just penetrate you, you know. And, uh, and that was it. We wrote, we wrote it in like two hours. That is amazing. You know, I was watching the Eagles documentary and Don Henley and Glenn Frye were talking. They were at a bar one night and he goes, look at that girl over there, man.

She's trouble. She's got lying eyes. And that's, it's amazing how a little thing, whether it's a toothbrush, an animate object, whatever can just trigger like an idea. That's amazing. Another song that I love is, uh, Las Vegas turnaround. Yeah. You wrote that. Yes, I did. That's one of my favorite songs, man. Thanks.

Yeah. And that song was written, was inspired by Sarah Allen, who later became Daryl's girlfriend. And, you know, they were together for many years. And she co-wrote a bunch of songs of us. And she's the inspiration for Sarah Smile. But at the time, she was a, uh, well, she was an airline stewardess. Right. Um, her and her girlfriend walked by.

I was just sitting on the steps. And we started talking and we start, you know, what do you do? Where we're flight attendants or stewardesses at the time. And I said, what are you can do? And one of them said, oh, we're going to do a Las Vegas turnaround. I said, what's that? I never even heard of it. I didn't either.

That's when you, you know, when you get a plane full of people, you fly out to Las Vegas and you just load up the plane again and turn around and go back. You don't spend the night. And I was like, wow. Okay. And so that was all I need to hear. You can look back right now, obviously, and go, wow, I'm proud. of what I've done. Look at all the shit I've done.

You could actually, a lot of people, it's hard for them to take a step back and go, look at this. I have a beautiful home. I have a beautiful wife. I have like this music that is inspired people. Are you able to do that was a time where it was hard to look at what you were doing, step on the outside? Well, I think in the last few years, you know, um, you know, moving to Nashville, uh, our son went off to college. Um, my wife and I became empty nesters. We started to do things travel around a little bit more taking more time off from the touring grind you know not just staying with that constant you know touring grind uh life has just changed and um i like it i have to say that it's it's a good i think i'm settling into a good you know rhythm uh you know at this point

i love that all right this is called shit talking with john oats these are my patrons it's it's rapid fire this is it these are my patrons who give a lot to the podcast go to patron dot com slash inside of you. And rapid fire, these are the top patrons. Here you go. Little Lisa, what is one of your favorite memories performing on stage besides the temptations? You mean besides pissing my pants? Besides pissing your pants. Is there a memory on stage? I would just say, you know, playing the classics, you know, the Madison Square Garden, the Buda Khan in Tokyo, you know, that sort of thing. Doing these firsts, you know, especially early in your career. That's the kind of thing that stands out to me do you constantly i mean still to this day get recognized every day uh it depends on where i am and

what i'm doing you know i you know like living in living in new york city it wasn't a big deal because nobody cares in new york um and then living in aspen colorado with nobody seems to care either because there's a lot of celebrities live there now i live in nashville and there's a lot of celebrities live here too so it's uh you know go to whole foods and no big deal do you like it when people come up and say oh my god can i get a picture or you're fine with it i don't mind i don't mind as long as people are nice you know don't interrupt your meal yeah exactly kelly asked i remember as a little kid thinking the album cover for h2 o was awesome which album cover was your favorite wow you know that is a good album cover um that's a that was that that picture was taken by a very famous uh fashion photographer

named hiro a japanese fashion photographer he did a lot of like vogue covers and things that was a cool album cover. I like, you know, I guess, I think the abandoned luncheonette is probably one of my favorite album covers. The girl I was dating at the time, she was an art student in Philadelphia, and she did that as a silk screen. Wow. Patty Kay, do you remember singing at Naval Air Station, Willow Grove, Pennsylvania? I worked security there. Yep. Yes, I do remember that because I met the commander from the F-14 wing, and he was going to give me a ride. in an F-14, which I was very excited about. And it never happened because the Iraq war started right after that.

Oh, Jesus. Ray H. If you could only listen to one artist for the rest of your life, who would it be? Oh, boy, that's hard. Joni Mitchell. What's your favorite Joni song? Well, the album Blue is one of the greatest, is the greatest album ever made as far as I'm concerned. Yeah.

She actually lived right down the corner from where I live right there. I'm on Laurel Canyon where all the, you know, the hippies live and all that, the country Canyon store. All you hippies like to hang out for. Yeah. There's a lot like Danny Hutton from Three Dog Nights still lives there. Frank Zappel lived around the corner. Carol King lived up the street. Yeah, yeah. It's pretty cool. That's classic. That's classic. Last question, David H. Has there been a time that you were just gobsmacked when you started to play with someone? Yeah, but you're not, well, when I was doing, when I was doing a lot of folk and blues, um, even before I met Darrell, or before Darrell and I were working together, I got to meet and play a little bit

with Doc Watson and his son Merle in the basement of the Main Point Coffee House in Philadelphia before their show. That was a high moment for me. That was a really, that was a big deal. Wow. This has been extraordinary. 21 albums sold 80 million units worldwide, most successful duo of all time, Hall of Fame, Songwriters Hall of Fame, 10 number one records, an awesome freaking song pushing a rock is out now you guys got to download it please it's you know it won't let you down it's truly amazing and what what's your handle on instagram so people could follow you john oates official john oates official are you on twitter as well yeah i have no idea but i am i am uh dude this has been extraordinary i i can't wait to see you whether it's solo or with darrell again if you guys

go on tour this has been like a drink and true i couldn't thank you much more than this well it'd be great to meet you more these days we'll try to make that happen I would love that man take care of yourself keep making great music and keep up with the mental health stuff

and keep the mustache for God's sakes take it easy man thank you so much John appreciate you see Ontario the weight is over the gold standard of online casinos

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There you have it. John Oates, legend. I hope you enjoyed that. We don't have musicians very often, Ryan. No, and we should do it more often. We should do it more often. I'm going to try. I want to get Debbie Gibson on.

Paula Abdul and I have talked. She has a story. Okay. She's going to come on the podcast. Okay. And that's really it. I just wish you guys the very best. We're going to read the top tier patrons off to those folks that give back to the podcast the most, patron.com slash inside of you.

And I hope you have a really good holiday, Ryan. I know you're going to see your family. And it's important. You know, you're close with your family. They're not too far away. It's an easy flight. I might drive it this time because I didn't get the flight and I think you have some peace and quiet, you and the road, a man in the road.

I do, I do enjoy it. I've been doing it all my life this, this trip up to Sonoma County. It's, uh, I'm used to the drive. What's the address? Go visit Ryan. Thanks for all the support. All the love. If you didn't listen to the intro, you should, there's a lot of great stuff in there.

There's a 10% off discount for the inside of you online store. Great new stuff that's going to go fast. I'm getting new space ship keys from Smallville autographs. So those will be up again. We're getting some more of those, and that's all I have to say. We'll be doing a stage it in January. But happy holidays, happy New Year. I love you all.

Thank you. Here are the top tiers. Couldn't do it without you. Nancy D. Leah S. Sarah V. Little Lisa. E. K. H. Nico P.

Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Kristen K. Raj C. Joshua D. Jennifer N. Stacey L. Jamal F. Janelle B. Kimberly E. Mike E. L.on Suprema. 99 more.

Santiago M. Chad W. Lian P. Jine R. Maya P. M. Belinda N. Chris H. Dave H. Sheila G. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom N. Lillian A. Talia M. Betsy D. Did we say Betsy D already? I'll say it again. Chad B. Dan N. Big Stevie W. Angel M. Rian N. C. Corey K. Dev Nexon. Michelle A. Jeremy C. John B. Brandy D. Camille S. Joey M. Eugene and Leah. Nikki G. Corey, Patricia, Heather L. Megan T. M. S. Orlando C. Caroline R.

Christine S. Sarah S. Eric H. Shane R.M.R. M. Zadouichi 77. Andreas N. Oracle. Karina N. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Lina 82. Jarrell. Billy S. Jam and J. AdH. G. Rocks. Todd. It sure does. Luna R. Cindy E. Kade F. Mike F. could not do this podcast without you. I hope you are safe. I hope you are good to yourself. Most importantly. take care of yourselves. It's going to be a better year. Every year, it's just going to, you've got to look for the light, man. The light at the end of the tunnel, Ryan. Yeah, yeah.

The good one. The good light. Don't go into the darkland. All right, from Michael Rosenbaum here in the Hollywood Hills of California. Oh, you're Michael Rosebaum. I am Ryan Taylor. You're Ryan Taylor. That's right.

That's right. Jesus. We love you a little wave to the camera. What a year. What a year, guys. Lots of great stuff coming up. So I hope you stick with me. And hopefully I'll do this for another year, at least.

Hey, the power's in your hands. Power's in your hands. You could end it whenever you want to. Yeah, well, I couldn't. A lot of people would be unhappy, I think. Would you guys be unhappy? Probably. Then don't.

I'll try not to. You won't have to. I just have to, you know, make a living. Yeah. You guys got to get paid. Anyway, all right. Love you guys. I'll see you.

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To fantasy. If you feel that way, why didn't you trade them? Become a better fan and listen to the football podcasts from Believe. Just search Believe. That's B-L-E-A-V podcast. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.