Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Harry Potter’s Jason Isaacs: Creative Process, Believable Villains, & Perspective

Episode Date: March 16, 2021

The iconic Jason Isaacs (Harry Potter, The Patriot) joins this week and discusses his unique creative process that has contributed to his ongoing success and respect in this industry. Jason reflects in different moments on missed opportunities that he passed on while emphasizing the importance of not getting stuck in the ideology of the ‘grass always being greener’. We also talk about our legendary improv scene in Sweet November, Jason’s formula to a successful villain, and his experience on sets like Armageddon, Harry Potter, and The Patriot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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watching this maybe you're watching it years later months later uh you didn't watch when it first came out or listened but that you're here with us so i appreciate that we got a great guest today um i worked with him in sweet november we had a kissing scene that didn't make it that cut um you know i'm from harry potter the patriot tons of stuff we'll get into him but uh first i got ask ryan what the hell's going on with him today because he's a little out there yeah no i've got a lot of a lot of stuff going on this week and uh that's it well you know what it's either you do too much and you're stressed you do too little and you're stressed you the proverbial you or it's right in the maybe there's some porridge the porridge of the middle i think we're all missing

a little bit of porridge in our lives guys make some porridge just is that what it's Is that the right saying, porridge? Just say it, say the word. Porridge. If you're driving right now, I just say porridge. Porridge. It just sounds wrong. Porage.

Porage. Thanks again for everyone for listening to the podcast, for sticking with the podcast. Tell your friends, let them know. Subscribe. If you haven't, subscribe, if you're here for Jason Isaacs. Love for you to stick around and learn something with us. I'm always learning stuff from the guests. And I think you will too.

You could subscribe where are I am? at YouTube.com slash Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum for the YouTube podcast. Or you can just follow on Twitter at Inside of You Pod, Instagram, Facebook, at Inside of You podcast. They're right here. You can see them too. So at. And you can email hello at inside of you podcast.com.

That's right. If you have any questions, we don't answer them right away. We get to them quite infrequently. It's just I have so much going on and I don't have a lot of people helping me out. with that so uh you know ryan's editing bryce is producing i'm doing the show and a bunch of other stuff and doing the patreon if you if you don't know what patreon is um i have a lot of patrons and they support the show in other ways and it's a big family and uh join patreon dot com slash inside of you you and uh i'll send you a message after you join it's a nice family but thank you for listening

guys thanks for tuning in uh we've got some great guests and you know we've had some great guests Zach Levi coming back, you think, okay, it's his third time. Who wants to listen to the third time? But you know what? He really opened up, and I freaking loved it. I loved him. He was talking about the medications he's on. He's pretty much telling the world that it's okay to be a little broken, and you've got to

really do the work. You got to do the work. Yeah. Hey, guys, if you're enjoying, sometimes you hear the music playing, that's my band, Sunspin. We have an album out right here. You see that? it's called best days sunspin is the band best days is the album and you can get it at sunspin.com along with awesome merch and all that jazz and you could also get an awesome inside of you stuff

and lex luther autographs and all that shit at the inside of you online store we got small the lunchboxes we also have sunspin lunch boxes that we sign and so there's a lot of good stuff there and i just want to say thanks again for for listening and tuning in it's been you know a tough week i'm i'm having problems waking up in the morning. Really? I just have a tough time. I wake up the same time around 7 a.m. And then I make some coffee and I feed the dogs and I do my routine.

But I just feel heavy in the face. Just like, oh, I just could fall asleep. And maybe it's the meds. I don't know. I take meds when I wake up, a small amount of meds just for, you know, little anxiety stuff and whatever. But, you know, but I do feel heavy. Maybe it just takes some people a couple hours to wake up.

Is that possible? Because I never felt like this before, really. Usually I'm within an hour. Now it's like three hours. I think it having something to do, having a purpose in the morning as you suck down. Isn't that a merch? Is that a merch bottle? This is an inside of you, sipper.

I am sipping down some decaf coffee. Maybe that's my problem, the decaf. You need the coffee. Yeah, my coffee is just. hitting I'm like yeah I don't know um you know what I want to be on that hot wing show yeah you should do that but I think I would push I would be the worst guest ever because after three I'm not good with hot stuff everybody says that everyone who's on that show says that but they all they all make it no no I would make this I don't think I think I would die probably by

wing five what's it called hot ones hot ones but he gets huge guests I'm not a big star like that Who knows, man? We're going to go from Will Ferrell doing Hot Wings to Michael Rosenbaum. It's going to go from 10 million views to like 200. But I'll make it funny because I'll freak out and I'll probably fall off the chair. I'll probably scream. We could just do it here. You have your own platform.

Why don't we do our own hot wings? Since he won't beat me on his show, Michael Rosenbaum decided to do his own hot stuff. Hot stuff? Hot ones. Hot ones with Ryan. And we sat here for an episode in just eight, hot wings. This is, you know, it might get a couple hundred views. Anyway, I was going to talk more today, but I'm not going to. Let's get into this guest. This is, uh, you know, I've known this guy

a long time. We did Sweet November together with Charlie's throne and Kenner Reeves. He's done tons of movies. He's an incredible actor. My mother never talks about my acting, but always talks about his. This is, uh, he's got some great stories and I think you're going to really enjoy this. So, um, let's get inside of Jason Isaacs. It's my point of view You're listening to Inside of You With Michael Rosenbaum Inside of You

Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum Was not recorded in front of a live studio audience Look at that, you look good Thanks very much I got a little pro thing here What do you think? It's not as big and fluffy as yours, obviously What are we talking about?

I haven't got one of the What do you call the big, the spongy thing? I don't go one of those. Oh, you mean these little, the condoms for the microphone? Yeah, I've got a pop shield so that are all over the mic. Well, yeah. That's because you do a lot of voiceovers and stuff, right? You got to have that little...

Do some voiceovers. I've been doing, not recently, not for money. I'd be doing charity voiceovers and hosting charity gala's and charity appeals. Nonstop for the last six months, I feel so fucking guilty because people don't have any money and people are terrified. But on the other hand, the charities have all run out of money completely. So, yeah, I bought myself a bunch of equipment and then I've done a lot of charity work.

You've got to feel good about that, though. Come on. I do. I mean, I was encouraged to get it by my voiceover agent who said the work will come flooding in and it hasn't even trickled him. But, you know, mine is, ours is not the reason why.

It's all fine. Voiceovers are actually, I think, harder to get than actual acting gigs. I mean, not in England, in America, yeah. So when I moved to the States, I was doing a lot of voiceovers in England. And you just get booked. You just, they go, I would like you to do the voice

of whatever the hell it is. And you start up in the studio and you do it. So my agent goes, I have a friend in America who's an American voice operation. I'll, you can get one there. I went, yeah, shit. And I just figured I would just slide into doing it there. It's a very different world.

It really is. I go in somewhere and I didn't quite understand the concept in audition. It would be 50 people. It was like being on the voice and narrow it down to 10 and five and three people. You don't get it and you go, fuck this.

I've been here all day. I'm not doing that anymore. So I started to do cartoons. I did a lot of cartoons, which I know you did. Which I love, and video games. Yeah, and before, you know, we'll get into that. But, you know, how we met, obviously, we met.

Wait, oh, we're recording. We're on. Okay, fine. Oh, yeah. I mean, I just like, you know, it's me. It's just a candid conversation. Okay, so we should tell the three people listening or watching. Actually, you have millions of people.

I wouldn't say millions. We should tell them how we met. All right. Hold on a second. You look exactly the same. No. No. Hold on a second.

I got an old dog. He's barking. He never does this. He's old, though. It's control. He just, here's a Jew is. starts barking well trained here's a jew yeah here's two jews talking and it's just upset that's true two or two jews i never thought i knew you how do we be tell tell us how defamatory we're gonna be

do we want lawsuits here well you know it's funny because all right so we're not no i mean we could say whatever we want people uh people will like it i hope um so i auditioned for sweet november and i met with pat o'connor who directed he directed circle of friends and i remember uh i didn't know this but i auditioned for your role and i did know that you were already their guy but your your schedule was conflicting so like you were in the days when i had a conflicted schedule i'm telling you i remember because i didn't even know i was up against anybody i mean obviously you're up against everybody but uh pat o'connor calls me and he has a michael um you know uh listen you could have a great audition and um you know and that whole thing

you do it much better because you were in a show where you no no i was looking i wouldn't even dare to do his Irish accent. But he was very soft and it was like floating. No, I don't know what it was. But he said to me, he says, listen, you have a great audition and everything. And, you know, you're great for the role. But we have this actor that's on whole further. That's why we were reading other actors.

Because he's, he's, if his schedule doesn't work, I'd like you to play this character. So I was supposed to play your. You must have hated me for decades now. No, I never did it all. But he said, listen, there's this other role. It doesn't seem as important. But it's his lover. and we'll do what we can and we'll just make you feel like it's not a very big cast and we want

you to come play with us and so i came to san francisco i met you we went golfing we had time to do things we hung out with uh kiano and charlie's a little and i remember we were he pat said hey why don't you guys just start improvising something on set so we started let me just build back up to that so when i because i when i was off of the job i didn't want to take it i just on the Patriot. And I like the idea of playing someone who suddenly surprises the audience by turning out to be a drag queen. But it just didn't, I wasn't in love with the script. And he said to me, he phoned me up. He said, look, we have mutual friends. I know you like to improvise. You can't improvise most of it. Keanu's in the scenes with you. I don't think that'd be fair to him. But there

will be a scene where I will let you completely off the leash. And I think I have a very good time. We've got a fantastic guy playing your boyfriend. I think, you know, it's really going to kick off. So I was very well-behaved the rest of the film. I was so looking forward to our scene together. The audience doesn't know that I'm a drag. Or it doesn't know I'm gay. Keanu thinks that I'm a love rival for him. He turns up at our front door.

First of all, I had said, before we went out, I'd set the production, listen, I'm playing a drag queen. I don't know any. Is there anywhere, can you think of anywhere or find someone I could go and research him? They went, honey, we're in San Francisco. Throw a stone.

And so I went out to a bunch of drag bars. And it was quite shocking to me. You know, funny enough, I'd had a trans friend before, but I had never been around transvestites, you know, and I just didn't know that drag wasn't about passing for a woman, and I went to the bars. I'm like, oh, these guys, some of them have moustaches. They look like Puerto Rican truck drivers in the frock.

So I was allowed off the hook. I didn't have to pass for a woman. But I was given carte blanche to dress in anything I wanted. So I went and picked this stuff, and I got fingernails and a wig, and so. And they looked in the mirror, and I went, fuck me, that's exactly what my mother looked like. when I was growing up.

There's a picture. I mean, she was much, she was a very, very pretty woman, but I had approximated, unconsciously, my mother in the 60s. Anyway, but we get to the thing, it's you and I, we're going to do a scene,

and I just remember Pat going, okay, you've been very good, well-behaved, you've given Keanu his cues because he likes to have, you know, he's a different kind of act, he likes his cues. Now, fuck him up.

The character is to come in the room and not know what's going on and be really thrown. You and Michael, fuck him up. And then we just, I don't know. You take it over.

I had the best time. The best time. And I remember, do you remember he said, I just had the sound guy record us. So go listen to what you did and kind of fuck around and see what you can come up with. So we improvised. Then we heard kind of what we did. We'll keep that.

And then we'll add. And then we'll, it was just kind of light and fun. And I had so much fun. He rolled until the, this is back in the days of film. He rolled until the mags ran out and then rolled again. We were all under a good time.

Yeah. And he called me at some point. Or I had to do ADR or something. He said the scene is like 20 minutes long. and it's everybody's favorite bit in the scene. I've got to cut it down to like two or three minutes because it's upending the whole thing. You know, there's a lovely romantic film.

Then there's just a genius comedy set piece. And then it's back to the romance. You're like, bring those guys back on again. So somewhere there is a 20-minute short film starring you and I doing stuff which we probably wouldn't be allowed to do today. Oh, it was fun though. I had a great time and, you know, working with you. And I could see that kind of, you know, that flicker in your eye,

that sort of that, I don't know, you have that. that air about you, that energy that, you know, you're obviously super talented, but I could just- A long time ago. But you just, and by the way, I think you were probably just getting married right around then, weren't you? We were, no, no, we went, I went, when did we do it? We did 2000, right? Yeah, you were married in what?

2001? No, 2001. No, no, no, 2001, I went to black all down, and we were trying to get pregnant and we were trying to get pregnant and really let me out of the last scene. It was incredibly nice so I could go and see an IVF doctor in New York. So there's a scene in which I'm meant to be in, which I'm not in. And when we got pregnant, and then when we were pregnant, we were in L.A., it's so unromantic. And my wife was sick. And we didn't know whether to fly home or not. We phoned a doctor in the UK. And he said, you should go to an emergency room. The thing she's

got, you should go and check out for a blood clot. And I thought, well, we thought, fuck, we don't have any medical insurance. I've got sags. She's got nothing. So we went to a registry office on Wilson Boulevard. We called two of our friends who came, and we all swore an oath of silence that we would never tell anyone we were married there because we wanted to have a proper wedding and invite friends

and hoping they'd fly overseas and make a fuss if they knew, you know. So we came back to England, I didn't tell anyone, didn't tell my friends, didn't tell my family, and we were at dinner a couple months later with a friend of ours and actress and she said, you know, since the two, you guys got married. And I said, we're not married, and she went,

Jayce, Emma told everyone. Oh, my God. And she went, yeah, I could, sorry, I couldn't keep it in. So we never did do the proper wedding thing, but it was like a year and a half after we worked together. Wow. And you guys have been together for 20 years? 500 years, 30-something years.

We're still trying to get one continuously good week. When we do, we'll assess the situation. I don't know how you do that, man. See, I'm somewhat single, I guess, perpetually. And I just feel like, you know, I'm 48 years old. Could you imagine yourself alone? Could you imagine yourself not having Emma? No, no, we're actors.

I thought you're going to say no. She's my glue. I can't really. Well, the truth is we're actors, right? I don't know what I'm going to do when I grow up still. And I'm 10 years old, you're 9 years old. So, you know, I can imagine myself as a wizard. I can imagine myself on a spaceship.

I can imagine, you know, this is my life. I mean, you know, Emma is my life. My kids are my life. This is my life. But I also want 100 other lives. I want the life where I'm, you know, roaming around. I want to be David Caradine and Kung. I want to be climbing mountains, and I want to be a, you know, I want to, there's a million

things, lives that I'd like to live. I get to live, you know, barely a fraction of one of them. But at least vicariously, the most fun thing, I think the most fun thing about acting in normal times is they get to shadow people and then for moments pretend I'm them sometimes. So I've been lucky enough to shadow police and soldiers and prostitutes and pimps and politicians and many things that don't be going to pee, you know. So I, and each time I think, oh, that could have been me. I wonder what my life would be like as that person.

So, yeah, I love Emma. This is who I am. This is where I'm anchored in the world. But I can imagine a million other lives. What would you do with it? And the grass is often greener if you're not careful. The grass will always seem greener. Yes.

What would you do, though? I have a glass sound. I don't know if you can see this. What is it? Certainly you won't see it on an audio podcast. It says pessimist and optimist. But I wish someone had made a glass where you could just fill the top off and only had the pessimist half fill because I'm off from that too.

Yeah. I think we all are good God. I wish I'd get out of my head. Wait, so you're single. Have you had long relationships? Yeah. I mean, there we go. This always happens, by the way. I'm dying to know. I haven't seen you for ages. I've adored you and I haven't seen him for 20 something. I know. I know, I've had some, you know, three years or we saw each other once, outside a club, didn't me? Yeah. Yeah. A club. Outside a restaurant. A restaurant. Yeah. You call them clubs in England, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You know, I date. I've had a three-year relationship. I had a year relationship. I just I see all the dysfunction around me and I see the unhappiness around me and then the few moments you see that oh wow that couple really works or you see my grandparents married for 72 years and it gives you hope but then I think I had there was so much shit I went through you know growing up that you're like I don't think I should get married I don't I don't know I don't know a ton of compromise it is everything involves a ton of compromise being single does being in a relationship because I'm selfish you could probably be shellfish you could be selfish you could be selfish you could be selfish you could be selfish I'm extremely selfish.

And, yeah, I see other couples. I remember there was this couple when I was a drama school. My friend Eric's parents, they were both child psychologists. And they seemed so happy. My parents were not happy. I don't remember one moment of happiness growing up,

seeing any joy between them or, you know, from each other. And seeing this couple, they were incredibly happy. We all felt the same way, all of Eric's friends. And I went and asked them separately. I was staying with us, we shared a apartment. And I asked them separately. I said, why your marriage seems crazy happy? I've never seen anything like it in my life.

And they both said separately, well, I just devote myself to his happiness or her happiness, which at the time seemed great. Now I think that's the definition of codependency or whatever it is something. But whatever, it seemed to work for them. I don't know. I mean, it's, you know, in the end we're born alone and we die alone. And these are the choice. I mean, I'm not a lever.

Emma's not a lever. So we're in it for thick or thin. Is that a bad thing, though? Jason, is it a bad thing to, because, you know, some people say, you know, have your own agenda, have your own happiness. but is there something to be said about meeting someone who really just loves being around you and wants to make you happy? I mean, that is codependency.

I didn't meet that person. I think I met someone who is more healthy and more balanced than that. Exactly. But, you know, I mean, look, if you meet someone and they just love doing what you love to do, and that's their fun, they just love being around you and doing the things that you like. And you're like, well, let's do something you like, but they don't really have much to offer or they never really ask to say, you know, they never suggest, oh, why don't we do this?

They just go along with you. Will that get boring? I don't know. Yes, I think so. I think it would be very, very boring to be utterly dominant. I'd like it for a week or two or even an hour for anybody to think that what I said was impressive or interesting. On the other hand, look, I'm an actor and I get, um, sometimes I get a monstrously,

grotesquely, undue amount of status from people socially, certainly from people who like the work or are fans and a film set is a very rigid almost ancient Egyptian hierarchy and you get all that status too so if my wife was even microscopically impressed by me it would probably be you know

it would be awful and damaging so she's no interest in watching anything I do work-wise, she never read an interview she won't listen to this podcast no she's not just the public performing side of me She's not just not even vaguely interesting. She doesn't come to a premiere with you. She didn't see the Patriot.

Premier is different. Premier is different because, you know, it would be weird if she did. By the way, she doesn't come to all of them by any means. And she doesn't, you know, I've just been doing a bunch of publicity the last couple of weeks. This is not, by the way. And, you know, as you know, I'm not on the publicity trail, but I was last week doing a bunch of junkety things or a film called Skyfire, this Chinese volcano film. How is that? Was it fun?

Yeah, yeah. It was amazing. But anyway, what I'm going to say is, I was in the newspapers, there's magazines, on the radio stations, you know, the shit that happens when a film comes out. Emma has no idea. She didn't read any of the papers. She didn't listen to the interviews.

She hasn't watched the film, which we've got, you know, a link to and stuff. And that's probably incredibly healthy. But it doesn't feed my ever-grasping ego, my bottomless pit of need for praise. But it's maybe why we're still married after 32 years. Does she say, you know, you're raising children, she's doing her half you're doing your half every once in a while do you ever hear jason you're really great in that oh in that no i i mean if i if she comes down in the morning and i've cleaned

the kitchen up and done the bins yeah if i decide i'll do the school run although i did it in the morning yeah the normal stuff of life if i'm kind if i praise her if i you know if i uh do something that hasn't been asked for if i cook dinner and whatever just the normal things in life if i'm uh she's impressed by She's not impressed by those things I do professionally or how much command I have socially. And I think that's probably really healthy. Yes, it's really healthy. Didn't Gary Newman, the pop star, marry the president of his fan club? I'm not sure.

Well, you know, they're still incredibly happy. Gary, for listening to this, I apologize. But I'll tell you what, Jason Proustley married a fan of his, his wife, who's wonderful. And they've been married and have kids and are happy as there. So it's rare. It does happen. But it's probably not, you know, you tried to separate that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

The only thing is, so when you tell people you're married for 30-odd years, and, you know, been together forever, they always think, oh, it's Paul Newman, Joanne Woodbitt, and that is perfect. I don't know anyone who's got the perfect thing. I do know there's people I think from the outside, wow, if only we were like that. Look at how great they are with each other.

And then they break up where you find out that they've got a basement full of limbless children or whatever hell of this. So we're no poster children for how to conduct ourselves or sort out problems or arguments. We do our best, we're trying to better at it. There are times we're sulky and stupid. There's times we're loving and fabulous.

And, you know, it is, it's a marriage. I remember a meeting years and years ago You get to edit this when I'm really fucking boring, right? You're not boring at all. This is what, honestly. I'm about to be. Oh, well, then, yeah. Years ago, I met Edsvick and Marshall Hushkowitz, who did 30-something.

I met Marshall, I think, in London. And he said to me, look, you know, we've seen you working. I don't know where during what, but I was doing Harry Potter at the time, and it was in a gap. And they said, we used to make television. We did a thing called 30-something. I said, I don't know. I could recite every word.

every episode, you know, they said, well, you must be young watching. I said, I don't know why. I must have been 18 and 19. I loved 30-something. I love the fact he created Tim Busfield's character, Elliot, who was selfish and petting, spoil, and salt, and just felt like a real person. You know, everybody wanted to be Ken Olin, Michael, but I wanted to be Tim Busfield because I've never seen anyone like that before. He said, well, okay, well, I'm glad you know it because we're going to come back to

television. Ed's been making these giant movies, but we wanted to see, you know, we just don't know many people are being killed and we don't know any aliens and we don't need people with superpowers. We want to make a TV show about the shit in our lives, about a marriage. Just you know, about the ups and downs of a marriage and how to hold it together and what happens? Someone gets

cancer and your kids growing up and that should be enough drama. That's the drama that most people experience. And I went that sounds amazing. And anyway, I couldn't do it because of the schedule or something and they made it. And I saw Edewick in the park years later when I was living in Los Angeles she'd work your dog and I said, yeah. And I said

oh, it's Jason. I remember years ago I nearly did that pilot with you. I said, how did it go? You know, you wanted to see whether you could make a drama out of just the simple things in life. He went, yeah, you can't. I went, oh, okay.

So, yeah, there's got to be a murder or homicide or a joint. Oh, my gosh. Some kind of other thing going on. It's not enough to have ordinary life. Wow. Marriage, don't be envious of it. Be who you are and find your places where you take. I think it must be difficult to be 48

and be prepared to make the amount of compromises that it takes to be. You know, Emma and I have been together so long. longer it will be to consider not being together will be size me but when you meet a new person you start dating yeah they better be perfect you know what they better feel like that jigsaw better fit perfect they're just I think it's just it has to just be easy like it can't there just can't be drama there can't be like real sensitive about things you say I mean look you argue you have things but it just can't be combative I can't be in a combative relationship I never really

have. There was one, but I just don't want to argue. I don't want to like... You know, in relationships, and either this one with them or, you know, my friends, I see in new ones, that when something is going wrong or isn't going great, you think, well, that's because they fill in the blank. Whatever it is. Right. That's not crazy or they, or they brought up my mother. And the trick, and I don't have it, I'm not, I'm absolutely talking the talk that I can't walk here. The trick is to go, what did I do? You know, what's my bit? What can I change? But it's always they. Yeah, I found that that's a good line.

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unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions With members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features, cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum, Rocket Money. listen you were talking about i mean like 15 minutes ago you said something about you know when we're

doing sweet november and that scene got cut down to two minutes it was 20 minutes have there been roles where you're like when you watch you're like what the fuck what happened to that shit have there been moments where you're like oh it was so great and it's gone and no one told you yeah yeah always i mean it's not even just the uh moment well first of all when i did harry potter which i loved doing and i loved the people who made it was it was nothing but an unending pleasure I stopped reading the books because there were fabulous bits in the books that, of course, didn't make it to the screenplay because otherwise the films would have been 900 hours long.

But not in those films, but in other things, as you know, as an actor, part of what you do is you're shaping a story, like when you're telling a joke. You're kind of, you're gauging, calibrating, in order for the right bits to come at the right time in the right way. And then you see it, and the middle's been put at the end, and the end is at the beginning, or they've altered the timing so you can cut to someone else.

the reaction. Really, if you want to control over your performance, you've got to be on stage because it's a director and an editor's medium. It's very rare, unless you do a single take somewhere, that the performance is ever going to be the performance that you felt that you gave. And then there's the other thing, which is to give a really good performance, you shouldn't really be aware of anything you're doing. You kind of lose yourself in it. I mean, you still know where the mark is. You're not really punching someone, but you also shouldn't really be editing your head or aware of it. So when you watch your back,

it could be a surprise and not what you thought you were doing or not what it looks like, you know. I mean, I try not to think about acting anymore. You know, that awful thing that happens when you get on a set and there's some young actor and they've completely prepared their performance. And it's fabulous, an exquisite piece of self-sculpture

and you could just drop your pants and take a shit on their head and it would not alter one beat. You know, the set could be on fire. It does nothing. You can pull your nose off. And they're going to do that thing because they've worked it out with their manager or their acting coach. I've worked with people,

have an acting coach on set. I try to do no preparation whatsoever. I know the story, you know, and I trust myself to be in the moment. I hope that they're going to be alive in the moment. And whatever happens, happens. And so same with the edit. You just have to let go of it. You know, our experience, the pleasure we should get should be just the release of doing it.

You know, the release of dancing, singing, you know, acting, painting should be the doing. of it and then just let go. And if I could, I would never watch any of it. And I wouldn't care if no one ever saw any of it. But as long as I kept getting the opportunity to do it again. Really? So you sincerely, just doing it for you is the pleasure you don't need to see it. I've been with you on a set.

Look, I don't know how to apportion the pie, but like part of the pleasure is we get to be part of this community, this little village that comes together. It's a group of friends. It's not like a normal working environment. It feels like you're hanging out. We are doing the most childish job on the set, childlike job. set. So, you know, it doesn't feel responsible. We're not, you know, transplanting organs here and we need to keep ourselves loose and having fun and our emotions close to the surface,

so laughing is close to tears. And so people are always kind of clowning around and enjoying themselves. It's very social. And then there's a bit where you get to play like all humans would play if we were let completely off the leash. And like kids do play. We get to play pretend and feel what it's like to have another person's thoughts and needs and wants and and it kind of unpick the human condition and paint pictures with the building blocks of emotional stuff. I had this, okay,

this is going to sound like a non-secretor is not, I don't think. You know, the thing about good acting, bad acting, are people doing it well and us judging ourselves? Are we doing it well? I had this seminal experience. I was at drama school and I was in the common room,

the kind of hangout room with the jukebox and dot. I think I'd like bunked out of a lesson, whatever you call it, playing cookie. I was sitting there smoking a big joint. and in the doorway right at the other side of the room where there's two people from the year above the graduating year and they're rehearsing some scene like a really dramatic, like acting, shouting, arguing, crying scene

it was just fucking horrible. The guy, God bless him, was a terrible actor. He should have been told within a day of arriving at drama school. Listen, we made a terrible mistake. You know, we got your name down, we'd be confused with someone else. You're never going to be an actor. You don't have the thing, whatever it is. It doesn't say anything about who's a human being.

You just can't say your own name inside a man. and saying it's not going to happen. And I was watching him do this waving of his arms and shouting and stupid things. His voice was thinking, it's just cruel, pushing him out of the world. She was pretty good, but he was awful. Anyway, it was ruining the joy, and I was harsh in my bus. So I thought, I've got to get out. And I got up and I walked past him to leave the room.

And I realized they were having a real argument. And they were crying and shouting and screaming each other, best friends having it falling out. And it was a revelation to me, because that is as good acting as anybody will ever do. he was 100% emotional and present. I just didn't particularly like the way he looked or sounded. Something about him felt artificial to me. So when I watch myself on screen or other people,

it doesn't matter what I think of what's going on. I might think that person is interesting or true, and the next person next to me thinks that's ridiculous and fake. So I'm no judge of what other people will think of me anyway. All I can do, all I can control is in the moment, am I feeling it? Am I honestly trying to change the other character's mind? am I trying to make them love me or hate me?

Me assessing later on whether I think I've done it well and what reviewers think of it is so out of my control there's no point thinking about it. It's hard though, especially in the beginning. I think that takes maturity. It's a nightmare. Because in the beginning you want the awareness. You want the, you know, the articles written about,

oh, hey, he was great in this and he did this. It still feels good, but should you be getting sort of enveloped in it? Bad ones. You get the good stuff. It's great. And you get addicted to it. You get the bad ones It really sucks

I don't have the courage or strength of character not to look at them I've generally had pretty good ones but it doesn't make a slight bit of difference I can read now online social media

there's a billion reviews of things I can read hours and hours of good stuff and one person goes that accent sucked and I just walk around crushed by it so I should look My friend Lenny James You know the actor Lenny James

who's in Fear the Walking Dead He was in Walking Dead Yeah Doesn't read reviews Doesn't read them doesn't look at them, not interested. Do you believe him? Do you believe him? You believe that? I do. He's like my brother. I love him. I trust him.

Fuck, if he lied to me, I'd be horrified. I don't think he does. But so, yeah, I had this early lesson about reviews. I was a student, not even a drama student. Yeah, I was a law student. And we'd taken a play to the Edinburgh Festival, which is this giant arts festival in Scotland. Thousands of things go on. You can't get reviewed because there's thousands of things, but you don't get an audience without review. So it's a nightmare. And back in the day when I did it, I was young, there were only two things that reviewed you. There was two newspapers, one broad. Sheet and one tabloid.

So we open at lunchtime. It's this play, you know, there's a lot of nudity and swearing. We thought it was brilliant with students. A lot of sex and all this stuff. And at midnight, the Broadsheet newspaper came out. And that first day we have five people in the audience. We're six on stage, five in the audience. And at midnight, we're at this party where all the performers used to go.

And they would come in and dump the newspapers at midnight. Everyone would descend like vultures, rip it to pieces, see if they got a review. but they're only reviewing like 10 shows a day and there's thousands so you know fuck me we got a review first day, Viking George we get a review and it says this is the worst piece of shit

I've ever seen in my life these people should be shot they're what gives student drama a bad name avoid it like the plague so we'll we got the rest of the summer doing the show

and we walk up onto this mountain in the middle of bed and we're called off the seat we take some tequila probably some things that were illegal at the time and we sit up on the mountain just so depressed

and we come down at 5 o'clock in the morning and outside a news agent but of course, you know, a candy shop number is piles of the tabloid newspaper the shop's not open yet, so they're sitting there on the street. You grab one, we'd steal and we open it. And unbelievably, we'd been reviewed in that too, which means two of the five people in the audience were reviewers.

And it went, this is the greatest thing I've ever seen. Electrifying theatre, pulls no punches, go and line up round the block with the rest of us to watch these stars of tomorrow. And we got both reviews, we put them on a poster, we fly posted all over town, where these two people saw the same show, make your mind up, and we sold out.

But it was an early lesson that none of it means shit, none of it. It's somebody's opinion. They want to look clever. They've come up with a good pun, a bit of alliteration. They don't care about you and the work you've done. They just care about reading their column, you know.

So you shouldn't look at it. You have great stories. Are you an actor, Jason? For 30 years. You know, well, here's a review for you. My mother. Yeah. I say, what was that show you loved with Jason Isaac's brotherhood?

He is my favorite. He played a real badass Michael Caffey. Get it now on who. I've never heard my mom go on and on really good show, not known enough, ended too soon. And I'm like, all right, shut up. I just wanted to know what the fucking story of all my television series. Not known enough. Me too soon.

I won, but yeah, two years here. What do you mean? You ran for a lot. What are you on 25 years? You're playing Lex Luthorpe? No, seven, seven years. I left after seven. Seven is a lot.

I've never gone to be on three. Okay, well, I mean, you know, you were Lucius Malfoy, so fuck you. I'll tell you what I have done, but you took my voice service. This is a strange thing to say. You were Lex Luthor. Oh, yeah, I'd be Lex Luthor, Rassogel, Superman, Batman. I've been all the D.C. people, but on a microphone. You were Lex Luthor.

Well, and you were brilliant. You were brilliant. Thank you. Thank you. But what I was going to say was... I mean, that's your opinion. Exactly. You know, I mean.

I'm going to say, one of the things that I've been lucky about in my, you know, an actor's career is so easy. I could look at, I could paint a picture of tremendous, I wouldn't do it on a podcast because it's not very inspiring. But I could go, oh, woe is me, all the things I missed out on, or I haven't gone badly, but canceled. Or I could go, how amazingly lucky I am, done all these fabulous things. The truth is, you can wake up every morning and you just can decide if you're lucky enough

or if not, you use some tools, whether to be grateful. and you can be ungrateful, you can compare yourself to other people you think have better lives, they probably don't, or you can just appreciate. But I was going to say one of the things I've been able to do in my career such as it is often is choose because I've not been broke. And that's a huge big deal. And one of the reasons that happened is that very early on I started doing voiceovers. I had a voiceover agent.

I was doing commercials. It meant that when I was offered jobs where I thought the part was shit, not small, but bad. I didn't do them. So some of the praise I've got from your mum, for instance, is because I was free enough not doing other shitty things to go, that is a brilliant script, and that is a brilliant part. And I was lucky enough to get offered it. But if you're not able to pick and choose the really good parts

and you're not lucky enough to come your way, it doesn't matter how good matter you are. You'll never have a break. Wow. So I was lucky. I was after the Patriot, when I came to work with you, I was offered every one-dimensional bad guy in Hollywood. opposite all of the kind of big alpha male guys

because I'd just been opposite Mel Gibson were a really well-written part Right, what roles were you that you rejected? What roles after that came to you? Any big ones that you rejected after the Patriot? Oh yeah, you can't say things like that. Yeah, yeah, other actors did them. I'm a bit dumb.

I should have done them for the money and to cement my status. Instead, I went and did a play about the Northern Irish peace process. I played a third lead drag queen. I did a bunch of indie things. I probably should have listened to my agent and gone, just do three or four of these.

things. And I was going, well, they're dumb. The part of the Patriot was a brilliantly complicated, wonderful guy. And the story, and Mel Gibson and Roland, gave him status. I came on screen and shot a bunch of kids. I burned a church. But lots of the other villains I was offered was so wafer thin, I would have looked bad in it. And I wouldn't get any other work. In retrospect, it was dumb. I should have taken jobs, made money, and no one's, you know, playing three-dimensional career chess. I could have done some good stuff afterwards. But I was so proud and picky, I wanted only to do things I thought were great. And that's really been consistently the story of most of what I'd every night again, I'd just do a piece of shit because it's a good check

or it's a nice holiday, but mostly I try and curate for my own ego and pride. If I can't be the most famous or richest person in the world, I can at least look back at the work I've done and gone, that's good stuff and that's interesting and those are interesting parts. And when the credits run, people can have a conversation. Absolutely. I mean, is there one role that you were up for, or just say you were up for it. Not offered, you could lie. But just the role out there that was one of the ones that you're like, I should have,

I should have talked to them about them. Oh, fuck me. You're kidding me? I could write a book about the things that I didn't do. I either passed on that went on to be global smashes. What? Here's the worst one, which I can't obviously put the name in

because someone else did it and whatever. But here's the worst one. I'm, Brotherhood went to three seasons. They kind of wanted to cancel it after two seasons, really. They gave us a truncated third season. Late in the day, they went, you know what you can do any episodes? Because there was a writer's striker, and there was a writer's striker, and they didn't have any material

and developed anything. So they let us limp on for a third season, which is great. It's good work, but I don't think they really want to do any more of it. In the period of time when it wasn't going to happen again, somebody wrote a show that went on to be one of the most successful and awarded shows in the world, and they wrote it with a picture of me on the Colcboard, as they wrote it.

They were like, that you were being considered. picturing me up there, and they approached me and said, hey, you don't know me, but I'm X. And I've written this pilot that, you know, I wrote with you in mind, but you weren't available. Congratulations on the third season of Brotherhood. And I went, oh, that's great. What did you write?

And they went, oh, it's a show about this sort of thing. And I went, oh, good luck with that. Thinking, well, that's never going to be anything. And then it is now there are cabinets full of awards for it. And that is the one that got away because it's a great, great show. And it's a great, great part. On the other hand, you have to be honest. go, if I had done it, maybe it wouldn't

be successful. Maybe the actor that did it is the reason it became successful, and it wouldn't have been good with me in it. Maybe I would have blown it. I always say, and you could agree with me or not, but it's the perfect storm. You know, like, you know, I've talked about it. You win the Patriot. If, if

Heath Ledger wasn't very good, or it wasn't shot that great, or you know, whatever, all these things didn't add up and make it this really great movie. If one thing's missing, that could be enough to break the card down. Oh, yeah.

Francis Phil Coppola changed the score of the Godfather, like two weeks before it came out. The score is everything in that film. It's genius. No, it all just has to happen. You know, it's like when we're doing publicity for Harry Potter, we go around, you know, when we used to go around and do all these junkies everywhere,

and people go, so tell me, why do you think the movies are so successful? What is it about the books that really works? And then people are going, you know, all my esteemed fellow cast members are going, well, you know, it's about loyalty, You've got friendships. So's a million other fucking things.

And they've got kids and they've got magic and they've got... Who knows? It's the lay lines met. Something happened. And if you could repeat it, they would repeat it. So who knows when things work or why they work. But I'll say it, it always starts with a good script.

I've never been in anything good that came from a bad script, ever. Yeah. Have you? Can you think of something to turn that well? No, usually when I go in, I'm thinking, well, I bet they could do something with this. You know, it...

Maybe they're, who knows? I mean, certainly there are movies or scripts that you look at, and they're like, that can't be good. And the director's so inventive, creative, technological that all of a sudden becomes this huge thing. And you're like, you know, you read the movie like Cabin in the Woods. I like horror movies. And you're like, oh, I don't know. This is like. And then you look.

No, no, that works. I love that film. It was so fun. Tell you what I read that I didn't think was that funny, but partly because I was asked to audition for a part, but only one eye appeared. It was all prosthetics is Galaxy Quest. I remember thinking, well, it's kind of funny. I hadn't at the time been, obviously, in Star Trek or been to conventions or seen it and that stuff.

But, you know, I kind of had some understanding of it. But the aliens weren't even remotely funny on the page. There was nothing about them. I know. They just spoke like And then I watched the film, which is utter genius from start to finish. Every word of it. And I thought, wow, I should have.

But I don't think I should have seen it. And they must have come up with that in rehearsal. I don't know how they did it. Yeah, I went in there for that, like, three times for that alien. I come from the, you know, with the whole thing. the way they did it was genius I didn't even think of that I did something else

that was kind of corny and probably would have ruined the movie you're very good at boys I remember your impressions vividly really have you updated them with any new people

or is it still in the same because when they die you're fucked well I remember I remember Canner when we were working with Cano I just remember that's when I started

to develop a Canna Reeves impression and I loved him I just remember us sitting in the room and we love him adore him and he's the best but I just remember he's a lovely man you had to carry charliece or we had to carry charliece into the bathroom she had cancer

and we're sitting in there and keanu let's let's be honest she's a big lass yes she's a bag of bones it was very easy yes it's very easy she's very thin uh very lightweight uh but we're sitting there i thought you'd mean because she's so tall but we're sitting there and then keanu they say action and he comes in he has a scene and just goes sarah and he does this sarah i know doctors and he goes, fuck and he hits the wall, he's like, are you okay, Kiana? You need another,

you need a minute or so. He's like, no, no, I've got this. Action. Sarah. I know doctors. Fuck. Shit. And he kind of hits the wall again.

And then he goes, no, I got this. Kenney, are you sure you? Yeah. Action. Sarah. I know doctors. Yeah, I think that was it. And I remember all of us,

looking at you're like, what? What? It was just a funny moment. He was a phenomenon. He is. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses this.

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so you don't have to um i don't know how many times we talk about this but like you know you got it and they helped you in so many ways and with these subscriptions that you think are like like, oh, it's a one month subscription for free and then you pay. Well, we forget. We want to watch a show on some streamer and then we forget and now we owe $200 by the end of the year. They're there to make sure those things don't happen and they will save you money. You know, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going

over budget, and even when you're doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket Money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep

research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Wicked. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Let me ask you, you said you don't prepare. You said you, well, you know, when you, I know that's a loose term. It's like, you know, prepare. No, I don't look at the lines and I don't think about what's going to happen in the scene. Wait a minute. Wait a minute.

You know the lines. When you say, how long does it take you to memorize lines? I never learn lines. I never look at them. Like, I've read the script. You know, I know roughly what's happening. I don't know where it is in the story because you shoot out of sequence always, obviously. So I know where have I come from, what's happened to before, what's happened to the scene.

I get to the set. I have the sides, which is the little piece of paper, and I just, I familiarize myself as we're making some choreography or blocking. And then I just sort of know them and reach for them. Because, I don't know, I'm making this shit up when I'm talking to it. I don't know what I'm going to say next. So I have a very, very loose grasp of the lines. And occasionally I've worked with directors who think,

oh, he's taking it lightly, he's being an amateur or something. But it's an approach I've learned from much better and more experienced actors. But I just have a, you know, somewhere I'm, somewhere I'm, know someone some level beyond consciousness i know roughly what the shape of it is but i want to see what happens but what happens when you have to know words verbatim like the patriot or whatever it is and they don't want you to improvise and you have to improvise i mean i you know i do i respect the writer but just if they make sense and it's what you would say next because you've worked because you know what you're thinking if it's good writing you know because you know what ever says what they're thinking

they say what they want they say things to try and get the effect they want from the person they're talking to, they make sense that they come out, they're natural. And if you keep stumbling over the same point or transitions, because maybe you haven't got your thoughts right, or maybe sometimes the words need tweaking. So you just, you know, you have to do the work first to make sure it's not you.

So you read the script a few times. You know it, you know this character, and you say when you get on set, you'll go over it in the makeup trailer, you'll kind of like go through it and blocking, but you never really know, you guys should just watch the YouTube just to see what Jason did with the microphone.

but you never really see that my right now I get anxiety thinking about that even if it's pages of dialogue and I've never held up a shoot now they've never had to wait while I go wait a second I haven't got this down I mean look if it's if it's reams of medical stuff

that you've got to learn or him Star Trek when I was a captain of Star Trek and we're constantly trying to give the very scientific gobbledygook away to other people I'd be better if he said that to me but um right yeah I just I mean I I can learn things very quickly I have a lot of Rom and no ram or the other way

and whatever it is. I can get there and look at the stuff in the trailer and I know the words, but what I don't want to do is have a shape for it in my head. I don't want to have a performance before I'm engaged with the other person. It's like, you know,

you practice having sex by yourself and then slot someone else in. That's not the way it works. And, you know, the best acting teacher I ever had, I was so intrigued when I heard Jamie, Jimmy Lynn Siegel on your podcast say she's gone back to acting classes now, you know. Because nobody in Britain does that.

You leave your arms school. You never do classes again. But the best teacher I ever learned from, this director, never told us a thing to do. Never once suggested anything we should do in our performance. He just kept on asking us what we're trying to change in the other person. And then when he started answering, go, don't tell me, show me. And I wonder if you found this to be the same.

The best performances I've ever seen on a film set are always off camera. It's always the person off camera acting for me. 100%. I've said it. I've ever given were off-camera and it's because in life, now I'm talking, right? And there's a camera pointing at me,

but I'm looking at a picture of you because what I'm really trying to do is connect with you, get a reaction from you. I have scenarios in my head to play out. One is that you go, this is amazing. You know, that's my optimum scenario. The nightmare scenario is I'm looking at you and I see that you're actually texting someone

while I'm talking. Somewhere between the two is the drama and why I'm still talking, you know? And you can't do that shit by yourself in the trailer. You can only do that with another person and see whether they're alive, you know, whether it's working, whether you're going to get to make them apologize or say, I love you, or stop being angry,

or whatever the scene requires. So I have a very loose graph of the words, and then they get there and I see, see what happens. What percent of, how many actors do you come across big actors who just really don't give you much off camera, who just kind of throw it away and like, you know, you're kind of on your own. And can you deal with that?

Are you good with that? I don't know. Can you go over 100? It's not, it's not the people don't give you. a lot of camera, it's that if you shoot their close-up last, if they'd be doing wides, they might be working themselves into it. So when you finally do their close-up, someone's close-up, whether it's the star of the film, or someone who doesn't quite, you know, hasn't been around enough, doesn't know how this game works, they only really, really focus on what's going on for them and they're

close-up. Or when it gets to their close-up, they suddenly go, oh, this is the bit where I better cry. Or I better shout. I better do something interesting in my close-up, that's spectacular and, you know, is worthy of the ticket price. And you go, well, if I know you're going to fucking do that, when I shot my reaction to it,

you know, when I'm just talking and now I'm doing your close-up and now you're sobbing, I would have been talking to a crying person. It's a whole different thing. So good actors, generous actors, theatre actors, will very often, right from the beginning,

be present. It's a sign of inexperience, I think. Sometimes, you know, schematic selfishness, but mostly inexperience, that people don't really haven't found the heart of the thing until they do their own close-up

and what they should be doing is finding it always and finding it off-camera always and I find that most you know acting is a very generous thing there's very few people that are entirely selfish about the performance because they know you're only ever as good as the other person in the scene. Yeah.

You know, you can't be good in the scene where someone else is not believable so if you don't give it to them and they don't give it to you and then the thing dies. Hey, you know, when you worked I think about like the set of the Patriot. I'm just imagining it. And like it's, you know, it's like your first real big role. You were in Event Horizon.

You've done a lot of stuff. But like, I've done leads in British TV shows. Right. But Patriot was my first big role in a big American movie. Right. This was like, holy shit, everybody in the world's going to see this. And this is the bad guy. You're the Darth Vader of the Patriot.

And, you know, it's so you're sitting there and you're working with the Heat Ledger and Mel Gibson. And, you know, are you one of those guys that when you're the bad guys? you have to sit away from everybody you don't want to get too talky or you can just jump in. Well, some people are like that. I've read a lot about that.

Or are you sitting around talking to Heath and Mel and got along great? So we flew out there early to South Carolina. Mel Heath and I and an AD, I think, and for it feels like a month, but maybe it was a couple of weeks. All we did was ride horses, sword fight, load and fire muskets and throw tomahawks.

And every day we go back to where we were staying. We look at each other and go, we're getting fucking paid for this it was just we had a fantastic time and no it was an incredibly convivial collegiate set I mean I've been on those sets

where the directors think that in order to create the kind of alpha macho tension that is needed on camera they need to be screaming and shouting the set needs to be tense Roland wasn't like that he was on top of his craft Mel's a great actor you know he's many things but he's a great

actor very generous actor he's a guy that's really giving it off screen and he's one of those people I remember he did the scene with Heath dying in his arms, you know, or injured. I think I remember he was dying. No, I think he's injured in his arm. And it's a huge set.

I mean, like, there's a crane coming down, like five hundred people coming up on the hill on a horse, and it ends up in a close-up of him. And he's standing smoking a bag and smoking a cigarette for the American listeners. And he, and he's telling some hilariously blue, off-color story and gag. And then they go, ready, and he goes, oh, he runs over. they go action he sits down

he kneels down and he keens when he rips his soul up there's no all I'm going to do some crying noises Mel goes there he's got these wells of rage obviously and pain that he can access and he just tears are projectile

out of his eyes and they go cut 10 of the horses went left instead of right they've got to reset and he comes over he finishes the joke and he must have done 10 takes like that

and it was never him he was getting it perfect every time because the horses were wrong or because the camera didn't do it right. You never said, hey, listen, guys, I've done it now. You've got to, that's enough. And we were playing chess and scrabble in between and telling jokes. I've always been like that on the set. Sometimes there are people who want to keep themselves and go somewhere. My best experiences have been, not just joking to distract people, but you're keeping all,

you're keeping that sense of play so close to the surface that you can laugh, you can cry, you can rage, you can murder. It's all, they're all part of a spectrum of it. They're all, they're all, connected in a way. They're about being loose and letting things flow through you. So, no, I was on the set. What I was amazed by on that film is that Roland, the director,

and Dean, the producer, and Mel, gave me a seat at the top table. If I had an idea, we did it, if they thought it was good. And any time I wanted to change the script or come up for something, I remember we were going to, I was going to ride,

I was meant to get off my horse and go into the church and tell them all that I knew they'd been collaborators and I was going to burn them. And I said to Roland, I could ride into the church. church. How about that for disrespect? And I think the designer or someone's next to us said,

I don't think we made the doors big enough. And I went, hold on. What do you mean? I said, well, it's just nasty. If I ride into the church, I tell them that they will, you know, they can save themselves if they tell me where the guy is. And then once they tell me, I go, thank you. And I write out and burn it. And he goes, yeah, sure, I like it. And then someone else came over and said, mate, I don't think the doors are big enough. He says, sure. So we shoot it later. Make the doors bigger. And I ended up writing the church. They gave me a complete unknown. The license. The license to come up with stuff that I thought was fun. If they thought it was fun, we did it too.

That made you feel good, huh? But also, well, the best creative work comes when you empower everyone. I watch Chris Columbus, that lovely, lovely man and wonderful director. I watched them on Harry Potter. Ask 11-year-olds and 12-year-olds. You never acted people. What do they think? They have been in good ideas for the scene.

What do they think? And, you know, I saw the director of, I did a series called the OA on Netflix. And Zal, his genius director, who I adore, he had a number of people who'd never acted before you know, Ian who's in other people and he'd asked them what they wanted to say, you know the character better than me, what do you think? It's not that there's nobody in charge.

Far from, it's the very opposite. But if you empower everybody, then you can take the best of their ideas and that was what the set of the Patriot was like. Mel was always encouraging me to be, you know, he wanted me to direct the stunt stuff. He'd just, he directed a Braveheart. He was like, the stunt guys came and showed us the fight.

And he goes, no, no, no, no, no. Jason, you take over, tell them. And I'm like, these people have been doing this job for long long than I've been alive. He went, tell them what the fight needs to be. So it's just anybody listening. The point is not me telling a sober story. So if you're doing anything creative, empower everyone.

No one knows better than anybody else. I always say that's absolutely true. You know, whatever you're doing, I defer to other people, real people who know what they're doing. Hey, you know, when you're doing a scene and you're, I look at the camera guy and I go, hey, John, is that funny? He's like, not really. I'm like, well, it's not funny.

It's not working. If John's not laughing, he's our audience. audience. John fucking knows. I don't know. I would take odds with you that. I think there's something about comedy. If it's funny on the set, it probably isn't funny at home. That's true.

That's true. That could very much happen. You get in the crew laughing. It's just like, you get the crew applauding at a big performance? It's a big performance. And it's not going to work on camera. The crew shouldn't see it. The camera sees your secrets.

The crew shouldn't see your secrets, I think. That's, you know, that's happened where you're like, everybody's laughing. It's just fun. It's gone both ways. But I think you just have to know when something's funny and trust it and not try to overdo it. And that could be very difficult unless you're with the, you know, you have the right director. The thing is people try me funny. You've got funny bones.

Funny people are funny. And people are unfunny. It doesn't, I don't care who wrote their fucking script. They're just never going to get a laugh. They just don't get it. Just don't get the rhythm of it. Hey, this is called shit talking with Jason Isaacs. This is rapid fire.

You can be as fast as you want. If you want to talk about it, you can. My patrons, my lovely patrons, Emily asks, what's your favorite line or insult your character? on Harry Potter said. Oh, I remember being in Hagrid's house. And it's because I like the vowel. You know, I came up with this tortuous voice for Lucis Malpoit. It was meant to make you hate him before you understood a word.

And I said, I was in his house. And I went, you call this a heist. I just remember that. Say it again. I like it. You call this a heise. Maisha, you've had a long and very diverse career. Is there any actor that you absolutely loved, loved working with and why?

The one that just comes right off the tip of your tongue. Oh, God. Well, Lady James ended up being one of my best friends. So I loved for me. I did a TV series, but in the movies, I loved working with Richard Harris because he's a god. And I'd been in a drama school with his son, Jared. And the days when Richard came to watch us in the plays were like three sets of

white friends days. He was like, it was fucking terrifying. This Oscar winner was coming to watch us. And then I got to do a scene with him before he died, which I love. I just started watching The Crown. I hadn't seen him five episodes in, Jared Harris. Jared's fantastic. Oh, man.

He was a fantastic actor in drama school. He was what they call a dangerous actor. People think dangerous actors are people that, you know, swing the sword too close to your face. No, it's people who make bold choices and could fall flat on their ass, but could be genius. He was always brave for his choices. That's difficult. Most people want to play it safe, right? Yeah, you want to get the next job.

Maddie Wags, you're so good at playing a villain and making the audience and instantly hate you. The Patriots, Soldier, Harry Potter. My question is, what draws you to the role of the villain? and you mentioned this, it has to be well written and not just kind of paper thin. What character traits make for a good villain? Just believability. You know, Lucy's Malfoy is just a racist.

He's a scared, old racist with, you know, ridiculous blonde hair. Does that remind you of anyone? And those people, they look in the mirror. They think they're right. If you play in a character who's just doing shit to make the audience boo, they won't even notice you. You know, white supremacists think they're right. He's trying to make Hogwarts great again.

This is a guy who thinks the world was better and people like me ruled things and he can see it's moving. So I believe it. The guy in the Patriots trying to win the war. He's scared of going home because his aristocratic family

is broke. There's got to be a reason why you're doing things. Did you love working with Tom Felton? I still love Tom Felton. I talk to him all the time. I know. You do stuff online all the time.

Actually, we might do a podcast together if we could ever pin him down. We're always in different countries, different times. Yeah, he was a gorgeous kid. So lovely. I felt terrible bullying him on screen. And he's turned into a lovely. young man yeah Matthew jay do you prefer playing the villain or the hero good guy roll which one you like

uh i like the bits that are so well written that i get the credit for a writer who's created a three dimensional part good answer lian p you played a variety of characters over the years which one do identify with the most probably i did angels in america the first productions on stage and i was i went in to talk from about playing prior who is the drag queen who has eight and i said uh you know he has a very wingy, neurotic Jewish boyfriend. I never get to play that, and it's so much closer to who I am. So maybe Lewis in Angels is closer than any of the parts I play. Carly T.

Was Armaged as much fun to make as it was to watch? And what's your favorite memory from that show? No. I heard it was a pain of ass. Buck, no. I mean, the only reason why is I was offered one of the astronauts, and I couldn't do it because I was working. So they very kindly came back and said, why don't you play Professor Quincy?

I'm like, okay, great. And my agent goes, you should take it because it's eight days work over six months, but they'll pay for you to be in Los Angeles. We can look for other work. They'll actually pay for you to be in a hotel. I'm like, oh, that's awesome. I go into my first day's work. Michael's very nice.

He's very flattering about how I do the one day that I have a lot of lines. And he goes, do we have you for the run of the picture? I said, well, I mean, I'm here for six months, but I'm only doing eight days. No, no, no, bullshit. I'm going to put you in every day. We'll give you like a clipboard.

We'll put you next to Billy Bob. We'll throw your line occasionally. I just thought I almost vomited on the spot because I was there for six months. Mostly as an extra every day. and, you know, every two months out of line, and that wasn't that much fun. Janelle B, huge fan of the OA, there it is.

As it is such an original show, please tell me if it really, please tell me it really wasn't canceled and the finale is just a plot to set up season three. I emailed you and said, I don't want me to be therapy. I said, I'll come into a show. Is that question the first therapeutic? I could weep, the OA, I loved it.

I think it's so staggeringly original and beautiful and human, and I've been doing this job for a long time. I've told a lot of great stories with great people. I've never come across anything like the OA. And I don't know if I was, you know, other people watched it. Some people watch and went, most people I know who watched it. A, watched all eight episodes of season one,

then all eight episodes in one go because they couldn't stop. And were profoundly affected by it in ways that they can't even explain. I thought it was, you know, I said the laylines met with Harry Potter, the Laylines met with the OA. Well, Zal and Brick came up with it was something magic. They had all five seasons mapped out. never heard of that before really in great detail and I don't know

I was I was blown away and by this stage I don't really get blown away by many things like I go oh that's nice I'll do that oh that's interesting I just felt like I arrived fresh off the boat from another planet because I felt like they reinvented storytelling if you haven't seen it

watch both seasons please watch both seasons and of course brotherhood my mother's going to make me watch I'm going to watch not that she has to make me watch but I'm going to watch it in children and TV shows but you don't usually get like you said

connected to something like that were emotionally, did you feel, did you cry or did you, were you really upset, were you hurt that, that, that, when we were canceled? I was devastated. Wow. Yeah. Devastated. By the way, I wasn't, I wasn't the first choice for the path. They cast someone else. They shot with him and replaced him.

You know, I lucked into that. And I couldn't believe my good fortune. It was one of those things that, like I said, it was the doing of it, being around people, that creative, that generous, that supportive, that free in their thinking that, you know about, I don't know if you're like this, but I'm most. things I'm on. Like, I'm trying to help my God talk to write a script at the way. You know, if somebody comes up with stuff,

I'm filtering it through the thousands of hours of Drek that I have made and seen and thought about. And I go, hey, why don't you? And I come up with some idea based on shit I've seen before. I felt like they were untouched by all of the, you know, the poison of millions of hours of procedural TV that I've watched and processed. I felt like they meant it in you. And I'm just being on set with them telling this story so originally and the atmosphere in which

we told it was enough for me. It turns out it was a giant cult hit. Can you be a giant cult? Sure. And I was crushed, I didn't get to, but the agents were thrilled. Not that it was cancelled because they liked it, but like, you're not lead. You know, you've got out of it, what you're going to get out of it. I remember hearing that from a representative going to go, you don't understand why I do this job.

I'm not trying to build something on a ladder or, you know, get the checks to go up or my quote to go up. I'm in this job because I love exploring human beings with talented people. this it's never been better than this um so yeah i was crushed when it was over oh i'm sorry it just means i keep that child alive i keep that over in look at me i'm you know my age i'm i talk like a uh you know an overshugged 80 year old because i keep myself enthusiastic you are last question kelly asked what was it working with what was it like working with the late great allen arraignment man i was stupidly for years scared shitless off him timidated by me just

the way he spoke, you know. He's actually the loveliest, most generous man, very fiercely committed to political causes, you know, center-left and lepping causes. When he found someone he wanted a champion or help, he really helped financially and with his time. He was amazing. But I never really, I stayed intimidated by him.

And I never really got out of, got the benefit out of him that I could have done because it was an incredibly friendly set. The best moment on Harry Potter for me, by far, was right at the end. We're shooting the final big battle at Hogwarts. So everybody's in.

All the actors are in. And it rains. And so we're there every day, but it's raining, and so we don't shoot. And it being a big budget movie, they don't seem to care, which are any other film, they'd be pulling the hair out,

you know, so instead of going back to everyone's trailer, if it was an American movie, everyone would go back to their trailers and stuff. We all huddled in this tent, the sound of deafling rain. They had a very stale tea urn, like your spoon would stand up in your cup of tea. And we sat there around these,

her heaters, and Julie Walters told stories about her pig farm. And everyone, Alan told her, you know, Jim Broadbent was there and Imelda wasn't there, but Gambon was there. So many people were there. All the kids were there. And just told stories.

Everyone was telling us it was hanging out like we were doing a touring theater, you know, dinner theater production of something. And every day I get there and I go, please let it be raining today. Please let us not shoot this thing. And just to sit in the company of these great, great actors, the theatrical royalty

and the kind of, I don't know maybe you've noticed this before, but every set, every film, every television show exists on this undercurrent, this bed of terror and anxiety that nobody's going to watch. You know, everyone's going to lose their money, the show's going to be cancelled, whatever it is.

And on the Harry Potter's, by the time we got, you know, halfway through it, we go, these are the most popular films in the world. We're telling great stories, great scripts in a great way. and it just fills you with this confidence to be bold and to dare to do things and with a great bunch of people. So, yeah, that was my fact. I was like working with Alan Raymond, like it was working with everyone. I pinched myself every day that I saw my name on a list on the call sheet with these people that I frankly worship.

That is awesome. And I could picture it. I pictured the tent. I pictured everybody kind of in close proximity. I pictured someone just yelling this. And then kind of sharing stories and just it feels like camp, you know? Well, that's, so the public think of actors. When we went to Duke premiere the last movie,

they had to have like a dozen cinemas and it was just the biggest thing that that ever happened in Trafalgar Square and Leicester Square were full of tens of thousands of people. And, you know, I think sometimes when, I don't know if it happens to you, but my friends go, oh, my daughter wants to be an actress or my son was an actor when you talked to them. It's because they've seen stuff like that on TV. But that's the life of an actor, the stuff that's lovely is us in a tent,

shivering with the rain outside. sipping tea telling stories as if we were all starting out of students the fact that four of them have Oscars, you know, like there's no status in acting. They can't be status. There shouldn't be status in a group of players. Minstrels used to get kicked out or hung or raped or whatever wasn't. You know, we're vagabonds. We should be. And that's what that felt like to me. This has been an absolute joy. Honestly, I wish you all the best. I hope I get to come to America. What's going on? You have a place to stay. What's going on? By the way, what's your handle? What's your Instagram and all that?

Oh, on Twitter, I'm at Jason's Folly. It's mostly been politics for a long time. I hope to God it doesn't have to be for a long time to come. I try and do self-promotion. I'm tempted to do easy gags all the time. It doesn't live alongside Trump's hideous racism and intent to destroy the world. But hopefully we'll never have to mention them again.

So at Jason's following on Instagram, which I post once every six months for my daughter reminds me I'm the real Jason Isaac. Nice. And what's anything coming up? I know it's, you know, quarantine. Yeah, yeah, there's films coming out. but I mean, are they coming out? I don't know, there's a film out now called Skyfire.

There's a film coming out next week on Amazon, I think. Oh, no, in January called Dr. Birds of Vice for Sad Poets, which is a brilliant indie. There's a film in which I have a much bigger part. I'm incredibly excited about that I, oh, I can't say. I think about it. I was going to say, but no, it's called Mass. And it is the enticing scenario of four people sitting at a table talking.

Two of them are the parents of a kid who died in a school shooting. and the other two are the parents of the shooter. And some years have gone by and they've not been able to get over it, the kids are the parents of the victim. And their therapists suggest they meet the parents of the shooter to try and make him human.

And it's one of the most brilliant pieces of writing and acting masterclasses, not from me, but from the other people I've ever seen in my life. It was just, it was staggering watching them. I don't know how it works as a film. I've been given amazing feedback, but you always are. That's the one I can't wait to see that come out of the New Year.

Oh, fucking, you know what? There's a list of things. I don't know. There's a bunch of shit. I want to see, I haven't watched the death of Stalin. I want to see that. Death of Stalin's, there's only Armandiyan Nucci in the world that could make a satire about, you know,

one of the world's most genocidal maniacs and make it both funny and respectful of the dead. Ryan just went like this. My engineer just went, yeah, on that one. Dude, I love you. And keep in touch all my best with the kids and Emma and just life and be healthy and safe. And thanks for doing this.

What's dating during a pandemic like? Oh, God. we'll discuss after okay all fair all right man thanks thanks for allowing me to be inside of you jace great to see you great to see you're done hey thanks for listening uh you know i appreciate you guys tuning in and hopefully you enjoy jason isaics and you'll stick around for next week's episode and support the podcast and um i just want to say i really appreciate that it was a really fun interview talking to my old buddy i remember on sweet november us going like golfing and um hang around San Francisco and then being transvestites in a movie. And it was a, it was a treat. I definitely

have fond memories of that, working with Canter Reeves and Charlize Throne. And it was a lot of fun. Ryan, that was a good episode. Good editing, my friend. Oh, thank you. Yeah. It was, you know, he's a private guy. And yet I think he was open and very forthcoming. Is that the right word? Yeah. Yeah, I think he was. That's a word. I think it was a word. I took word power in high school. I remember ameliorate to become better. I remember exuberant, overwhelming with joy. I remember colloquialism. I'm not sure what that one meant.

I think it was like frat is a colloquialism. Yeah, it's a for fraternity. Right. It's a slang. It's a fancy word for slang. Yeah, colloquialism. Can I tell you my favorite word? Yeah.

Defenestrate. Defenestrate. does that mean take away it means to throw out of a window throw out of a window okay defenestrate I was I was close yeah in a way right right to be do away with

yeah it's just I defenestrated my father in smallville Lex Luthor defenestrated his father out of the fucking window that's right I am the villain of the story um hey guys this has been a real treat thank you for supporting the band

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Ojetta. Lorraine G. Olga. Olga. Oh, my Olga C. Olga ordered a bunch of shirts with my face on it for her school. Olga, you rock. Corey M. This has been a real treat. Ryan, what are we going to do this week that is going to make us feel better? Name one thing you're going to do for yourself this week.

I'm going to actually pick up my goddamn guitar. good because I think you're a fabulous guitar player and a singer thank you I do you're very very talented in many ways and I think I don't want you to forget the things you love and the passions you have because you're tied up with like lots of work yep you know I don't want you to stop working because then we'd be F you C K'd that'd be great but I want you to take care of yourself I'm going to try and take care of myself I'm going to I'm going to try and play some golf that's good I'm going to try you know I've been writing a lot but that's that's I got to, you know, I want to, I'm writing a new song, I'm writing a new song called

Movie Star and I played it for Rob and he loved it. And then Rob is bringing his brilliance to it. So we'll be getting that. Um, anyway, have a fabulous week guys. We love you from the Hollywood Hills. The lifestyles of the mildly famous. Lifestyles of the mildly famous and not so rich. Uh, I am Michael Rosenbaum. I've been Ryan. Hey, I'm Ryan Tayas. And have a superb week. Do something for yourself. Love yourself. Give yourself a break. We'll be back next week. Please join us. Please subscribe. We love you. Give a wave. Thanks for allowing to be inside of each and every one of you guys. Thanks. account the mortgage that's what we do make a down payment on a home something nice buying a vehicle a separate bucket for this addition that we're adding 50,000 dollars I'll buy a new podcast you'll buy new friends and we're done thanks for playing everybody we're out of here

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