Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Jaime King

Episode Date: September 24, 2019

Jaime King (Black Summer, Sin City) talks about the out-of-body experience she gets from acting by devoting herself to each role she takes, but also the anxiety and overwhelming feeling that arises due to her perfectionist nature that never lets her half-ass anything. She also opens up on her compassion and innate serving nature, while expressing the lonely and neglectful feelings that can come out of relationships when not reciprocated. Jamie shares stories from her past as a teenage supermodel, experiences helping friends in need like Selma Blair, and the thrill she has working on products like her smash Black Summer. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Light the path to a brighter future with stellus lenses for myopia control. Learn more at SLOR.com. And ask your family eye care professional for SLOR Stellas lenses at your child's next visit. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Hey folks, thanks for listening. Thanks for supporting me. And I support the new show in love with Michael Rosenbaum and Chris Sullivan. You could subscribe to that.

If you see it on the inside of you feed, that's because we're trying to give it some life. You know, inside of you never had life in the beginning. So we're trying to give a little boost in love. I love Chris Sullivan. I love working with him. If you haven't seen this as us, he's brilliant. He's got a heart of gold. He's making me a better person.

And hopefully you guys as well. What else? I am going to be in Columbus, October 18th, Columbus, Ohio for a convention with Tom Welling. We're going to be signing in Madison, Wisconsin on October 25th, November 8th, and Austin. And then my band, Left on Laurel, guys, is going to be in Germany. Left on Laurel, we made a debut album. It's on iTunes. You can go to the iTunes store, and you can look up Left on Laurel, the album saved by the ground. You could pre-order it now, and then it will be available on all platforms, October 4th. We're really excited about that. So, Check that out, merch to come, half, shirt, stickers, and all that jazz.

Today's guest, we're going to get inside Jamie King. I've known Jamie a little while. Her husband and I, we tried to write a couple of scripts and sell them, and we loved the work, but they didn't get sold. But she's been married for a while. They have two kids. She's got a pretty crazy career. Right now, she's on a show called Black Summer, which is really cool. If you're into zombies and it's shot really well, it's on Netflix.

So check that out. I mean, I think you're going to really dig it. She's got a pretty crazy career. She started so young as like a supermodel. Could you imagine being a supermodel at like 14 years old? I'm sitting there popping zits in the mirror at 14 years old thinking, God, get me out of this town. But she's been in everything, Sin City, Pearl Harbor. You've seen her in so many things.

And it's really exciting to get inside of her today. She's really open and honest. And some people I get a little nervous. Like, what did I ask the wrong thing? Can I ask? Fuck, man. She just lets go. Also, next week, I'm announcing it now. Supernatural Week. If you're not a fan of Supernatural, I mean, this show has been going on forever.

People love it, so I had to get the guys on the show. So, next week, starting Tuesday, October 1st, we've got four of the big guns coming on. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. All next week is Supernatural Week. So get your frosty, get your chips, get your friends, have a listen. You guys have been asking me a long time. Supernatural Week is next week. Let's get inside of Jamie King.

It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. All right. Oh my God. out of breath. I know. I'm always out of breath, though. I'm out of breath. You know, you should be out of breath because I walked outside of my house just now, and Jamie King is walking up the street, and I have a steep hill. And I'm like, why are you walking up the hill?

I saved three spots in the driveway for you. Did you Uber? No, I drove from Ohio. You drove from Ohio to see me? Of course. Get lost. No, I got, I was in Ohio. I drove from Ohio. That's like an hour. I know. It's like two hours. But do you have other things planned? No, I just, like you're going to go see Selma. You're going to go see. No, I literally came for you.

You know, it's funny is I got your message late last night. I swear to God. By the way, I really like that you're, I'm like, oh, I don't feel so bad that I never answered my phone. I never answer my phone because I'm so distracted with ADD all over the place all the time that if I start answering it or have my people always have their phone beeps and they're always looking at it. What do you look at your phone anyway, once every 20 minutes, 10 minutes anyway?

Can you wait 10 minutes? People can't. It makes me nuts. I mean, people, we, everyone, right? Are you better at it? I think I am probably because I sort of, I think it romanticized the idea of being here. You know what I mean? And it's the same thing.

Like, I'm not very good at multitasking. I think some people would be like, that's not true. But I don't like to. Like, if I'm doing something, I want to be present and I want to be here. I get really anxious. Yeah, but you have two kids. You have a husband. You have a career.

I can't be present. I'm alone. single. I have two dogs. I mean, I'm all over the place. Yeah. And on ADD medication. Yeah. Are you on ADD medication? No, but I should be. Have you ever been on medication? Is that a personal question? It is. Well, it's personal, but we're friends. Let's see. I was on medication after I had my first child because I had, yeah, James Knight. James Knight. No, I take that back. It wasn't James Knight. It was Leo. Leo. I said Theo.

See, I put Leo and Thames together. Leo Thames, yeah. Thames, like the river. T-H-A-M-E-S. Yes. In England. Yeah. I got it right.

See, that was pretty good. Did you know that, Mia? The River Thames in England? I've heard of it. I didn't know that was your kid's name. Well, you're 25. You can get away with not knowing the Tames. I'm sure I've seen it.

You probably would know most notably because Megan Markle got married at Windsor, which is next to the Bert Times. Have you been to Windsor? I have. I was married there. You were married at Windsor Castle. Nobody knows that. Oh, God, now everybody knows.

Oh, Jesus. Sorry. You were really married in Windsor? What? No one's ever married in Windsor except if you're royalty. I can't believe I just said that out loud. You must know someone. Does it rhyme with fail or swift?

Has nothing to do with that. Way before. Yeah, you were married. You've been married. I'm going to guess. I'm going to go 10 years. Longer. No.

Really? 13. 13 years. Crazy. With Kyle Newman. Kyle Newman. My good buddy. He's a good guy.

He is a good guy. And you met on fan boys. Yep. And he was directing fan boys. Yes. And you fell in love. Did you guys hook up on the set? Nope.

I've never hooked up, but anybody on set. You mean you wait till they call the day's over? Never. Not even that. Are you saying you wait till the movie's over? Wait till the show's over. I, when I'm shooting, I think I can be kind of like, you know, I'm very to myself a lot because I'm so focused on what it is that I'm doing.

And I'm not very good at being social and, you know, doing the work at the same time. It's just so gets in me that it's like a discipline. And so the idea of, you know, hooking up with someone on set seems so crazy to me because you think about all the dreams, right, that are on the line and all the money and all the time. And it's like one fuck, like you can fuck and then what? you fuck it up all that matters is between action and take right like that's what's putting you know food

on the table right for everybody so um when i met him uh i was sort of taken aback because i i i'd never met him personally it was you know someone had asked me if i would go do the movie and i showed up and um i couldn't believe how young he was and i and i immediately was like oh that's he's beautiful and oh wow he's really young and then like straight back into the work you thought Kyle was beautiful your husband when you saw him for the first time directing you he's beautiful I think that anybody that's doing what they love and you see them in the process of doing that that's beautiful yeah he is passionate deeply deeply passionate and that's what you saw yeah I'm passionate but yes I think you know I watch the two of you I remember just being at your place once and you were

just going over an audition once and I respected you so much because you cared so much about you wanted to be great you wanted it it to just pop and you were like you know you were working on this accent and i watched it i'm like she's so good and she's so focused and it's weird even when i get i'm always anxious so even when i'm auditioning even when i'm um for a for a for anything just like when i'm working on an audition i'm still nervous i'm always thinking about oh my god who's going to be there it's going to be this it's very hard for me to just not be distracted and it's hard for me to focus and you it seems like you really don't even though you probably do care what people think you don't

let it interfere with your work? I think that I, that's a really interesting question because I was prepping for this audition this week. And I started the work on, I got it on Saturday. It's for one of my favorite filmmakers. And a filmmaker that's been deeply supportive of me as a filmmaker too. And coached him on Saturday. Then I did the body work on Sunday.

It was like, I was just like really, you know, like I always used to do the work on it. And something kept blocking me. And it was this terror. And the terror was like, I can't do it. Like something doesn't feel right. It feels like I'm acting. I don't want to feel like I'm acting.

And I got really scared. I'm like, okay, what the fuck is going on here? Is this like my anxiety? You know, because, again, you talk about being anxious. I've always been anxious, like my whole life. And the natural tenor of my physicality and my body is so sensitive that I've had to find a way to put it into something because, you know, like Oscar Wilde, that I was reading this quote that he said last week.

And he said something to the effect of like, if you give a man a mask, he'll tell you his truth. When you could hide behind something. Exactly. And so I was like, whoa, that's what it is because my whole life I felt so out of place. So through acting or storytelling, I felt like it could be me because I could go into the deepest levels of my psyches, you know, whether it's the really very much like the shadow side and the light side and really unzip my soul. And merge that with the soul of the character and put that out there. Because as you know, like when we're in the process of acting, it's not doing anything. It's receiving and giving it back.

And it's like you're out of your body, right? Because you've done the work. And then you're liberated in the moment because it's just you and the people within the scene. And it comes to a place where it's actually transcendent because you're so connected. And that's all we really want, right? for me, like, that's all my, when I feel that anguish inside my heart, it's like, which is very consistent. I'm like, okay, what is that thing?

And it's this deep, deep need for intimacy, which is the into me see, which is the, Ooh, into me see? Yeah. Like, into me, see, into me, yeah. Into me, see. That is pretty intense. And I still haven't done the audition yet. I called my manager yesterday.

I was like, I don't know what's wrong with me. Bub, blah. he's like you need a break you're exhausted because I don't know how to do anything halfway right so it's like when you see people getting all this stuff done I'm like how do they do it like how do you're like how does he get it all done I don't know how to do it hasn't changed oh I know I know but it's the idea of like tasks right like people I admire people that are able to do a lot of tasks and just be okay with it not being perfect because it really is no such thing's perfection but my need for excellence is very uh can be self sabotaging you have no idea i just i've just been through this i haven't talked about it in full but i went to a uh a wellness center which my listeners another go here he goes good i went to a wellness center for three weeks and um which one did you go to uh it's called privy swiss it's up in connecticut and oh i know what when you're talking about right it was it was a beautiful experience and very very tough yeah one of my one of my best friends went and changed their life i feel like i grew up in three weeks i'm not saying

I'm an adult. I just feel like there's more of a sense of, like I feel more like a human being. I feel more like I can connect to people more. I feel like I want to love more. I want to feel like I want to be loved. Most importantly, that was one of their things.

They were like, you need to allow yourself to be loved. You don't trust it because, you know, of past and all this shit. And so you need to, it's going to go, Michael, it's going to be very hard for you. You were going to find something wrong with the other person. you're going to push them away so you don't get hurt if you trust something if there are red flags obviously if there are real red flags run but if there are things you can deal with then give it a chance

try and i do give it a chance but i always get in the way i always get in the way my mind always gets in the way and this thing just really uh this these three weeks believe it or not like four days before i'm like how am i going to be you know my friend tom goes what are you going to do in the real world dude and i and i thought oh my god but i have been journaling every day for 50 days straight meditating 50 days straight i have been doing the work and i sat with my brother who he's a drinker and he you know i could tell he wants to change his life and i you know i'm like dude look i was rock bottom man it all it is is taking one step at a time but really it's it's 21 days to break a have it but if you just don't like something about yourself and you see yourself doing the same

thing habitual right if you just change that instead of waking up and looking at my phone I wake up and I immediately meditate for 25 minutes there's no looking at my phone and then I go for a walk and then I feed the dogs and then I do and then when I eat breakfast that's when I can look at my phone and you have an hour and then you're going to get going and if you don't have anything you're going to keep busy you're going to go for a fucking hike you're going to do some charity work you're going to do whatever you're going to do hands on you're going to feel and I'm forcing myself to feel and it's really easy to feel once you start to understand like all you need is some connection dude you just need to really connect and not make it all about fucking you you know and you

have kids and you have a husband and you have work and you have all these things and I'm like oh my god what would I have done I would have fucking jumped off a roof well you feel like you want to I mean I felt like I want to sometimes you know because I know what you're talking about it's interesting because it's the idea of structure. So when we have a structure externally and internally, then it creates structure throughout our lives. So it's the idea that discipline leads to freedom. What does discipline look like?

And it's not strict or stern because it's all about the intention of where that's coming from, right? So when you get up and you meditate in the morning and then you go for your, you're creating a structure, but you're doing it from a place of loving, not from a place of when you go to a gym. And you see people on the treadmill, like, bab, blah, blah, blah, it's like, okay, you know, how fruitful is it of the things that we're doing? And how can, you know, sometimes I'm just like, can I just wash this glass and loving right now? Can I do that?

Because the idea of trying to change oneself or are out of circumstances, you know, all in one shot is so deeply overwhelming that it starts with one thing. One thing. And the movement, sometimes, you know, I just physically turn my body when I know. notice that I'm caught in a pattern of the mind or the emotions or whatever because it sort breaks something within my nervous, like, you know, when people say, we'll just look at it in a different direction. It's literally doing that kind of. Turning on a dime. Yeah. And I think that there's, you know, obviously with everything that's happening, not only in our country and in the world, you know, we are a collective consciousness and then we have our own consciousness, but

we're tapped into it all. And I think that it seems like we're more connected, but I feel like a deeper sense of loneliness and our society and within myself because, you know, people are connecting in these false ways. But this here I know is nourishment. Like this is like soul food. Yeah. What the podcast? Anytime.

Yeah. This right here. Like sitting. Connecting. Connected. I'm forced to listen. And not because I want to listen, but then I learn things. The thing is you're always learning.

We're always learning something. If like you might take one thing out of this. him and go, you know what? He said this one thing. Or I might say, you know what, I got something out of that. I'm so full of apprehension my whole life. I just am like, you know, I don't want to do that. Out of my comfort zone. I don't want to do that. I don't want to go to a museum. I don't want to go to a museum. I don't want to. And when I start my therapist is like, just write a number down of how you're feeling right now. I'm like one. Yeah. One in terms of if you want to, how badly you want to go to this museum. I'm a one at a 10 right now. I'm circling a one. Then go to the fucking museum and then come back

and what number and write down into the number you felt. Even if it's a two. It's better than what you did. And most of the time, it's really good. It's about the spontaneity, right? Because we don't, you know, the lack of spontaneity or wanting to try something is not because you're not spontaneous or we're not, or we're not adventurous that we don't want to see the world. It's things that are not necessarily physical that so bog us down and inhibit us from wanting

to partake of what else is out there. You know, it's like we create so many worlds inside of ourselves that we forget that part of it deeply. false you know and it's difficult because um you know it takes it takes a lot of support and i think right now now more than ever people need the support even if it's one person just like to like if you feel it just be like hey man are you how are you checking like but genuine person genuine hey dude love you man good see you later just one that was that was another fucking thing that they told me they're like you know what when someone says michael thank you it's not like every

time someone says thank you you have to go oh my god thank you but when someone genuinely has a moment where they go hey i just want to say that that really i really appreciate that like i get these letters and my jess my assistant sends them to me of the message board and you know i i would look them over but now i'm looking at them in a different with a different thought like of this person took the time and look what it means to them hey michael my name so-and-so um your podcast has really helped me in my life and I really feel it and then I take the moment to write them back and say you know how appreciative I am of them and that they can do this and we can do this and it's all about believing in not only yourself but in other people being appreciative they

said something to me like you know take a moment feel it I know Michael you're uncomfortable embrace the discomfort I want you to embrace it that's your biggest issue and I'm like okay so funny enough my grandmother called like the next day And she, at the same time I went to this place, she had put my grandfather in a memory facility. And it was very difficult because he's my best friend. She's my best friend. And I go, how are you doing? She goes, like shit, kid.

We started joking around. I started making her laugh. And she said, you're a very special boy. And I go, oh, come on, you are too. Or a girl. Well, grandma. I love you. And then she goes, no, no, no, no, no, no.

Listen to me for a second. I said what? She goes, you're remarkable. I go, all right, stop it. All right. Come on. And she goes, my. I want you to listen to me.

I'm 91 years old. I have seen a lot of remarkable people in my life. You are the most remarkable boy I have ever met. I just start crying. And I was like, this is the moment they're talking about. I'm just allowing myself to go, fuck, man, just feel, it's okay. It's like having, for the first time I'm having compassion for myself.

I'm not like looking at myself and going, who the fuck are you? I would look sometimes in the mirror. Not all the time because I'm not completely crazy. But I look myself in the mirror, Jamie. And I would go, who are you, dude? Who the fuck are you? And I go to bed.

Yeah. And now I'm starting to just have a little more compassion going, dude, you're flawed. We're all flawed. You know what? You're a good dude. Fucking be the best you can. And tomorrow's a new day. And, you know, that's what I'm working on.

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And because I was at a place where it was like, okay, what's really out there? What is, why am I here? You know, and it's like the higher we get, the more difficult it becomes because the negativity and our patterns, it makes me so much more, comes up in such a nuanced way to say, hey, do you really believe in yourself? Do you really love yourself? Like, are you going to be the one to stand up for yourself when you're reliant on structures or people around you to tell you where you are in your life and in your path? And it's an illusion. It's not real. You know, like this, I would say like the past like eight, nine months, I really had to like, oh, okay,

you know, when you're talking about receding, you know, when people like, oh, that was so great or like, thank you, thank you, thank you. And then like, and it was someone I was doing it. interview recently and the guy was like, you don't realize what you've achieved in your life, do you? I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you won't take any credit for your success or how you've changed things or, you know, like you really laid it on me. And I was like, well, what do you mean? And he's like, he gave some examples how I would answer a question, right? And I think one of it was like we were talking about when I did James is a girl with Nan Gold and Jennifer Egan, which is essentially, you know, when I was 16, Jennifer Egan and Ann Golden, you know, documented my life.

And when I first met Lena, Dunham, I remember saying that I became a writer because of that. And I, you know, I read that and I put it on my wall, et cetera, et cetera. And I sort of briefly started to speak about this and then I started talking about something else. He's like, he won't even continue to talk about, like, personal things are way. that your work has changed people or your life and I was like because it just feels so gratuitous he's like it's just it's not gratuitous to acknowledge what you've done and I was like it just feels very strange to talk about myself because I've always put myself in a position of being of service right of like holding for other people and listening to other people and taking care of

other people to realize holy shit like like I'm freaking out right now and none of these people will have my back because I've taken so much of the responsibility of taking care of them and being there that they've completely forgotten to ever ask if I'm doing well or if there's something that I need. And I have forgotten to say, this is a relationship, a friendship. This is not just about being the one that is of service to other people. It has to be reciprocated. It has to be reciprocated. But I set myself up in that way thinking that that was, you know, not in a false way. It was just very natural and authentic to me to then feel when I really deeply needed

it, who's going to be there? I don't feel safe right now. Oh, my God. I feel terrified that I can't keep this up. How am I going to keep succeeding, keep working, keep being badging, keep doing what I love, keeping there for everybody, being there for myself. When you talk about looking in the mirror and you look in the mirror, you're like, who am I?

it's like it just takes so much work and then the gentleness right it's that gentleness when you feel that gentleness come in and it's just a deeply provocative thing because that's when you really could see who's going to meet me here who's going to meet us here in this vulnerability who's going to meet me here in this truth because you say that you love me how much do you love me is it do you love all of me the places that I can't even love with them myself the places that I'm disappointed in where I have thought that I failed myself, but the fact is, is that if we could have done better in that moment, we would have done better. We could have, even when people are like fucking up or when I'm fucking up, I'm like, oh, man,

fuck. If I had the strength in that moment to do better, I would have done better. And sometimes it's reminding myself of that in times where, again, out in the world, you know, people are putting, you know, these museum-like ideas about what their life is like which is such an interesting lie you know it's just you can see it's instagram everything you do is look i drive this i'm happy i'm at a beach if the person in front of the pyramids in egypt or whatever just wasn't smiling right they look miserable and i'd go i don't want to go on that trip it's all about you know people put it on i think we all do well yeah it's it's a natural thing i think

now more than ever people are really doing it which makes me rebel against it it in a way, you know. Like now when everybody wants to take pictures and post them, you know, I think that's the thing about not wanting my phone all the time because the idea of having to document like this moment now. Someone texted me earlier and like, oh, we didn't get a group picture. And I was like, that never even crossed my mind that we should get a group picture to say, oh, we were here together. You know what I just don't, you know, I don't want to have to think in that way. And then I realize, you know, that's sort of what society is telling everybody. Yeah. And, you know, I was thinking when you were talking about this about structure. Yeah. And for some reason, I thought, why can't people be alone? Or why can't? Everybody has to work so much. I just love to work. What happens if you stop working? I just love it. I love it. I've never understood what people want to work so much. And then I realized once I go, you know what? Learn to be by yourself. Learn to be alone. That's okay. But it's a lot harder than I thought.

And if you don't have structure Like I always thought Why should you need any kind of structure Why can't you just be Well you're not a fucking hippie Living on you know The structure is part of the beingness We need as human beings

Like you can't just sit at home all day This is how depression starts If you don't get the fuck up Like my therapist said Michael what happens in the morning I have anxiety What do you do? I don't know I lie there for how long

I don't know Get the fuck up Brush your tea tell yourself you love yourself go lie down meditate for 25 minutes go for a walk go eat and get your day have a plan for the week because no human being is going to be happy doing fucking nothing they're all going to go crazy yeah period you get in your head and you just stay there and it's also about finding okay like like and this is also where it gets tricky right it's like okay because we're in a world where people are used to doing things but it's like okay what can you do and how do you

create doing something that is meaningful to you and that serves you, not just saying yes to doing and then call that structure. Like, yeah, I'll just say yes to everything. We still have to have vigilance, eternal vigilance. We have to understand, okay, if we're choosing into something, does that make our energy expand with enthusiasm? Does it make us contract? Okay, what's the contraction coming from? Is that from fear, worry, anxiety, concern? Or is it coming from, oh, well, that's not just really for the highest good for me right now? Like, you could get up and then, you know, get drunk where you got up and did something but that's not something you want to do right so it's it's about okay how do you how do we create a structure that supports us and rejuvenates us and fulfills us

and isn't it interesting though like when you're when you're meditating when you're moving your body or exercising all these things how how clearly who you are starts to come in you know what's crazy is this morning I was just like I think I meditate for 30 minutes and then I realize 20 of them like there's a possibility I might have been asleep yeah but that's not a bad thing I mean I don't know that's when you're but my mind is going all of like I am like people go my brother goes I can't do it my mind runs I go dude

you're talking to me my mind does not fucking stop yeah but that's the problem that people think that they can't meditate quote unquote correctly or they can't do it because of their mind there's no wrong way to do it yeah the only wrong way to do it is to not do it your mind is a part of your toolbox just like your ego and everything else right so the mind is going to do

so if you're going to sit down and you're going to meditate get a tone that works for you a chant that works for you utilize it as something like spiritual exercises right keep a drone next to you when the mind starts to go oh shit i got to get bananas and then i did it blah blah blah blah blah it's like okay and then you go back to your breath but it's the idea that like okay because we're here to complete right so the mind starts going in completion complete so sometimes if you just write it down quickly then go back and you keep doing it keep doing it keep doing it doing it. So what it does is it tells the mind, okay, well, don't worry, I got that. Yeah.

Put that there. Now I can continue to do this. And it's part of structure. It's part of like, it's part of a new healthy routine. It's the internal structure. Yeah, absolutely. That is the support. I even do like a guided sometimes. Sometimes if I'm like, I'm too like messed up, you know, my mind's just everywhere. There's this one guy who's like, today we're going to go over the seven affirmations. Yeah. And you think, okay, this is cheesy. Whatever. And then he goes, I've been meditating as I was 19. Like, I used to meditate. Six hours a day for my thesis. I'm not kidding.

Oh, my God. But this guy goes crazy. Too much. Be flexible. Say yes to things. Be good to your body. Exercise. Climb the stairs.

Eat fruits and vegetables. It's funny because I'm like, oh, come on, man. But then I start to go, these are all good things. And I honestly have listened to him like almost every day. It's his seven affirmations. The guy's name's Jonathan Lehman on Insighton.

site timer it's 10 minutes if you've never meditated listen to jonathan layman 10 minutes you're welcome john uh yeah and you know what i just do it and it's easy for me and it's if you have a dd just listen and you just breathe and close your eyes and do and you go hey i meditated today and the next day you'll meditate again and all of a sudden a week later you go you know what i'm 10 minutes without words and then you might do 20 minutes and then it's just it's an exercise that's really good for you it's like you do pushups for your chest or whatever to me it's everything it's for your mind it is it really is the it really is everything it is helping now you now did you always have like a support system like in terms of like family where your parents really were you guys close were you

yeah i mean i'm very close with my family but i think it was different because i started working when i was so young i started working i was about 13 14 it's crazy i look back i'm like what fuck do you have a lot of regrets or a lot of resentment towards did you have to get through things where it's like oh i had i mean so much therapy why did my parents let me just You know, because I came from a very structured, you know, happy-ish family, you know, that looked one way and my parents got separated when I was around that age and then everything changed. And, you know, again, it's like you, when you have kids, all of a sudden you realize, oh, my God, man, we're just like bumbling idiots that are trying to take care of ourselves and then we have children and we're like, uh, how do we not mess this up? You know, you start to have a lot of compassion for your parents because you realize, like, how difficult it is. And then you have this thing with, it's like someone takes your heart and they pull it out of your chest and they put it in another body and it's walking around.

Like everything you care about is just in the world in these humans, right? And you just don't want to mess it up, you know. And it's always a reflection of, you know, for me, for myself. And, you know, in terms of my own parents, you know, coming into the compassion of that they did the best that they could wasn't always easy. And I hit up against that a lot because I look back and I'm like, wow, no wonder I'm so exhausted sometimes because I've been working for so long. I've been exposed for so long. And you know that feeling, the feeling of like being exposed. But I was at 14 years old, you know, I was just like cutting through backyards and drinking out of the garden hoses and playing whiffleball and can.

Catching fireflies and just like, dur. Yeah. You know, I'm watching, you know, MTV and I just, and you were modeling big time, right? You became a big model, fast. Yeah, real fast. You were with, uh, I was a supermodel. At how old were you a supermodel? 14.

14 years old. A supermodel. Like you're hanging out with Rebecca Romaine Stamos. It was a little later. I was with, you know, it was like Kate and Naomi and. Shalom and Carolyn Murphy and Karen Elson and I mean at that time you know it was just a different time in fashion you know it was very you know it was just it was exclusive I guess you could say now it's just it's very different you know it's a very tight group of people but I look back

and like my God it's like child pornography it makes me sick it's like okay you can put a child in a bathtub and shoot them naked when they're 14 years old for Italian Vogue anywhere else in the world that be child pornography and I look back and I'm like how did that happen I've been very outspoken about it and the laws have changed but At that age, do you remember being incredibly uncomfortable? And were people making comments and guys making you uncomfortable? Did you remember just being like, this is wrong? Subconsciously, maybe?

I didn't know because I was so afraid that if I didn't do what I was told that I would be sent home and I would somehow mess it up. Isn't that funny how we always as kids think no matter what, it's our fault? Yeah. It's true. That's why I have to be so careful with anything that I say or do. I'm so aware with my kids. because now they're getting that age where they're starting to decide what is right and what is wrong and social structures and yada yada yada and it happens so young and i'm just like how does that happen so like i'm just you know how can i parent them in a way where they didn't mean where i just don't i just don't want them to you know build up a bunch of shit that they have to undo later you're in you're doing italian vogue are you shooting in italy obviously no you shoot everywhere you shoot everywhere it's not just italian vogue shoots there no no no no no no no no

Shoots are everywhere. They are. But did your mom go with you at 14 or your dad? She went the first summer and then they told her that I was going to be a chaperone. And at that time, I had gotten a scholarship to a gifted school back home. And I did not want to go, man. I never was able to go to school without being bullied. Like, I just.

Bullied. Why? I don't, because I looked a particular way, but I wasn't social. I only wanted to read. I lived in a fantasy world. Like, I was just. Kind of the opposite of me. She's a fantasy world.

Social non-reader. Inside you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses this. So many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? How cool is that?

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if you're close to going over budget and even when you're doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket Money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes.

Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. So when you went there, because that's when things started falling apart, when your parents weren't there and you started to get involved in all this stuff, that's when you kind of went downhill, right? Well, I mean, it's so weird. It's like looking at a different life.

I knew that I wanted to be a filmmaker. Even though I was young, I was very intentional. It was at a time in, you know, fashion where it was like, you know, everybody was on something. I was a kid that was told to do what these adults said. And when you have these adults that are. very famous and very wealthy, et cetera, et cetera. They're the power people doing these things. It's very hard to know what you are supposed to do or not supposed to do. But I realized by the time I was 17 that that was not the industry that I wanted to stay and that I was going to utilize it for everything I could and then be a filmmaker. So I saved all of my money and I quit at the height of my career and they thought I

was fucking nuts because at that time a supermodel had never gone to be a filmmaker or an actor. There wasn't like multi hyphenin it's in. Remember like there was a time. Oh yeah. You were either a TV star or a movie star or you're a model. There's no crossover. There was no crossover. So like who is this girl? She might as well be a wrestler wanting to be an actor. Oh my they were like you're making millions. Like they were they're like you're making millions of dollars. You were making millions of dollars. Yeah. Did you save a lot of that money? Oh, I saved almost all of it. Yeah. So you're good. Yeah.

But you started like, you got involved with people who were doing drugs and shit, right? Yeah. But you got involved with that. Yeah. How did you get out of that? And how deep did you get? I lost the first love of my life when I was 17 and I never picked up a drug again. You know, he was, he had a terminal illness.

He had something called talcemia, which is a very rare form of sickle cell anemia. And people that had this at that time really didn't live past like 21 years old. and I could see it, I could feel it, that he was going to go. And I remember we were out here shooting and I could just see it. And I said, I just want to go home. I want to go home. And I went back to Nebraska and 40s later he died. And it was really difficult because, you know, when you're a teenager and then you have

President Clinton, you know, using your photograph, our photograph that we did, he was a brilliant, brilliant artist and said that it was heroin. and we were glamorizing heroin, it's like, dude, we're artists and we're kids, and we took these photographs and you're using it, right? We didn't even know what was going on or what was happening. I don't really know how to describe it. It was the most horrific thing because it's like someone taking your art and then saying that we were the ones that were doing this thing.

It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. It was your picture? Yeah, a picture that he and I took. So we would always take pictures together at David Trenti. He was a very brilliant photographer. And they, and you're saying President Clinton at the time? Yeah, put it up and used that image because when he died, it sent shockwaves through the entire industry in the world. And, you know, but he didn't die of an overdose.

And that was the really difficult thing is that, you know, he, it wasn't. Sick of solenemia. Yeah. And so then, you know, here you have all these people writing down history in a particular way. And then I lost, you know, the love of my life and my best friend. And, you know, I was like, fuck this place. I got to get out of this place and everyone else was still doing all this

you know using and doing all this stuff and living their glamorous lives and I just, I didn't want to do that I just want I was done Was it just an easy decision right after that You're like I'm done or were you people I couldn't even take an Advil I had such severe anxiety

I thought I was having a heart attack all the time And I didn't know what a panic attack was It was a kid It was a kid and I remember I was on I was standing on the court I'll never forget this I was on the corner of St. Marks and second And I remember people like

getting out of the delis and they were walking around with coffee and like hailing taxis. And I was thinking, how is it that I've lost everything and the world just keeps moving on? I didn't understand death. I couldn't understand that the person I loved the most had been like ripped away from me and that the world just kept moving on. Right? And that's the interesting thing about grief. And I'm sure anybody that's experienced death and loss, understand what I'm talking about. And I remember, like, looking up to this guy and saying, if there's a fucking God, you better tell me, I need to know. Because if there's no, if there's nothing here, then I don't want to live. I can't, I can't live anymore.

I can't live. Show me, show me, show me. I was, like, crying out inside to, like, the sky, you know, because I didn't know what to do with all that. I was so young. And I went to the bookstore and I saw this book called Spiritual Warrior. It was written by a man named John Roger. And the opening of the book said something like, if you believe everything that you read in this book, then you're an idiot.

I was like, oh, this is cool. I dig this. And then he was talking about how when you read something or giving information that, you know, try it. If it works for you, great. If not have the wood to let it go. And in that book, I learned about forgiveness. I learned about free from writing. I learned about the Anahue and meditation.

I learned about spiritual structure. That's how it all started. That's how it started. And, you know. So God was that bookstore. God was that bookstore. God was this book. John Madre.

That changed my life. I literally cannot imagine my life. I could never function without it. Just think if you would have walked into a different store. It could have been way different. That's when you see, though, that there's. There is a higher purpose that comes through. I would have walked into Spencer's gift store probably.

And you know what? And looked for God on like a Morrissey T-shirt. And you would have found it. Maybe. Because here's the thing. When we really need it, I believe we find it. Yes. Because it was a prayer from my heart and I didn't know what a prayer was.

Yes, I went to church and whatever. But like when I talk about a heart's prayer, it's that thing that's so deep inside of you that you don't even know that you're asking for it. You don't even know what you want. But something bigger than you hears it. it and pulls you out of it. So when you're trying to make sure, when I'm trying to, like, oh, how do I say this affirmation this way?

Or how do I create a very intentional spiritual life? It's like, fuck the words. It doesn't matter sometimes. Sometimes when you're drowning and you're overwhelmed and your fear and all of this stuff, that thing that picked you up and took you up to Connecticut, you know what I'm talking about because that's the heart's prayer. And it just happens when we need it. I think you're right.

I think, you know, there is sort of that feeling, that innate feeling that you just you can't explain to other people you can't tell people to believe in god you can't look it's not our job because there's a thing once you that's what i loved about that book right because it's like the experience yeah no one can take away your experience no one can take away my experience and people may let's and be like oh that's crazy it's all how you feel yeah it's what you feel inside and that you can't nobody can tell you differently nobody could say yeah well where's this if you feel something it's it's like a gut reaction it's something that just goes, ah, I know what that is. And whatever that is for you, whether it's spiritual or religious

or whatever, it's something that only you can understand. And that feeling is a cool feeling when it happens. When you're just going, huh, oh, yeah, you know what that? I know what that is. That's special. That's different right there. Yeah, tell me this. Yeah. You know, I think, I think you're at your, you're absolutely right. And there's no arguing with it, right? And by the way, why should you argue with it? It's like, you believe what you believe and you love what you love and what works for you works for you and like whatever works for everybody else great you know we're all just trying to make it through this game called life man you know we're all just trying to to get through it so what what what supports you and getting through it you know do i mean it's that so you did uh

you did black summer i know how he jumped around there just boom i love that that's god death black summer sometimes like i'm always go from a to z i really liked it i mean it's really dark and i love zombies and it was different and it was chaotic and all I kept thinking was how the fuck is she doing this I mean how like physically and mentally like I don't know how you prepared like that and it was before you had a child right no before you had the second one right no that was after I just shot that last year how did you prepare for that um can you really prepare for that yeah so I mean you hired zombies your method hired zombies you know it was already in me you know everything here's the thing about the show that is really important

to me that it's the idea that we could utilize a specific or certain genre blending to tell our perception about what was happening in this country. And when I saw kids getting ripped away from the parents at the fucking border, I was done. You know, because I've been very politically active for a very long time and long before it was okay. You know, like when people were like, what are you doing? Shut up. You're going to get trouble. You're like, you're going to get fired. Don't rock the pub. You know what I mean? For real. And now everyone's like, you know, outspoken, but. Well, if someone's not outspoken, no one will ever well. be. Someone has to lead the, you know, you just, I mean, someone has to do it. Yeah.

You know. And we all have to do in ways that like, you'll know when you're, when that, when that comes. And with this one, you know, the quote unquote, there was never zombies even in the script. People were getting sick. Ah. And the sickness is a sign, yeah, for the division. It's awesome. Everything is symbolic in our show. Sure. So when you go back and you rewatch it, it's a meditation on what's happening. And so that's why it opens the way that it does. We barely. use any dialogue we tell we have no backstory we don't use subtitles we shoot you know we shoot it like a play like we do some ballsy stuff and and it was like okay let's just hope that it catches on and thank god for stephen king man because stephen king loved it i mean he wrote about it twice and i just i literally thought i was going to die because i don't sam jackson taught me something really good he's he's he's like we were in a press story for a film we did together and i was of course like asking him about his favorite movies he didn't blah blah and and he's and we started talking about

about reviews. And he said, I never read the reviews, Jamie, because if I believe the good ones, I'm going to believe the bad ones. And so I'm not really adept to reading about, just read the good ones. You know, I mean, how people receive it. But when he, when Stephen wrote about it, I was like, and then all of a sudden, boom, people could see it because he was able to articulate in the way that we were giving it to people. And by the end of that show, I thought I was losing my mind because when you're producing it, starting it, my kids were there. And I, you know, my kids are are always raised on set but like the last 10 days I flew them back so that they could start preschool and and I went back up and I was like I'm losing my fucking mind like I all my friend

Jason Dolan one of my writing partners thank God he was there but I remember we were watching a movie or something downstairs no we were watching queer eye no Hannah Gatsby Hannah Gatsby because that's the sheet like Hannah thank God kept me alive through that project and I remember going up the stairs and again I felt like I had a panic attack and I went out on the lawn in Calgary and I got down on my hands and knees, and I was like, oh, my God, I think I'm going to, like, what is, I felt like something really terrible was going to happen. Like overwhelming. Real, no, all consuming.

I thought I was going to have a heart attack and die. And I was like, okay, this isn't Jamie. This is Rose. What is this thing? Why do I feel like the world's going to end? You know, it's like when you, you know that, I'm sure you know what I'm talking about. When you're so merged with the character in the story, you're not even trying. It just is.

And I was like, uh, like towards the end, I really, you're losing it. I was losing it. You know, but it was It was really good to be out of the country I needed to get out of America And it was really good to tell this story And with, you know, great storytellers And tell this story about, you know

Our country and the way that we saw it at the time Well, if Stephen King likes it I think everyone out there should probably check it out Yeah Right? Yeah, very proud of it How to Cook Your Mother? Is that happening? How to Cook Your Daughter?

Sorry, I was thinking of the movie I would have done How to Cook Your Daughter. How to Cook Your Mother is what I would. But the movie is pre-production, How to Cook Your Daughter. Yeah, we started working on that like a year and a half ago. Is that going to happen? Because I just love the title I wanted to mention it. I believe it is going to happen.

It's just got to be like the right time because it's such a really intense film. But that's the one thing that I love about what we do is like right when you're getting ready to start one thing, then all of a sudden that pushes and then something else comes forward. Always, always you're like, what the fuck? And then it always, the storytelling seems to happen at the right time. You know, in the beginning of this interview, and God, this goes by so fast, but we talk about helping, you know, I think I took what's called an Indiogram. And you take an Indiogram guys, you can go online and take it. But if you, a therapist gave me it.

So there's a, there's one that's pretty specific. But you answer all these questions as honestly as you can. You really, you're just cheating yourself. And then you get to see what you are. And I was a helper. I was a loyalist and I was an enthusiast and they said you have to be really careful

you're a helper too and you have to you talked about how much you're a helper and you have to be really careful well because what happens is all your energy gets put into everything else everybody and then it doesn't come back to you and you don't have the energy

to really take care of yourself and I didn't really I didn't realize that and so when I think of you I see you all the time you're always helping like our friend Selma Blair you know who's an unbelievable human being and we worked together years ago and she got diagnosed with MS, and she's incredibly brave.

But I see that you've, you know, you were calling doctors and you're like, you know, you're there for her. You've known her a long time. And, you know, you, this is, look, it's easier. That was the first one that knew. Yeah. And it's easier for me to, to go, well, I'm a single guy. I got my dogs.

I could, I could help someone, but you've got your kids. You got your family. Got your career. You got this. You got that. And it's like, boom. Now you got to, you know, you're doing that. And it's, and that takes a lot out of you.

Yeah. I had lost my other best friend in my. teacher two years ago and she had cancer and I was taking care of her and she died in my arms and I just realized at that moment that it was like oh I've been writing these PSAs and doing all these things for this moment so that I could be of service so that I could help this person that is beloved and has given so much not only to me but you know to our community and help her you know support her in a way where she could live her life or remaining days with some kind of integrity and and it's like being a soldier

in a war really because you don't realize what you've done until after it and with selmy you know i don't know anything different that's one of my oldest best friends you know she's been my best friend for over 20 years and i know how to do that thing i know how to deal with doctors and advocate and and make sure that they're i can do that part you know but it's not easy because you know selma had called me and she had said i'm so sorry i'm so sorry that i haven't been this there for you when you were sick and she like it came from such a deep place and that you know I've never said this out loud before obviously it struck me that even when she said that I couldn't even take it in you know I couldn't even take in her sorry because the other part of me inside

that just wanted to keep her alive and healthy and here and now was still running and then and then it did hit me a couple of days ago and I was like wow I'm sorry too to myself I'm sorry that I couldn't you know that I couldn't take that in or that I can I can acknowledge when I need that kind of support you know and it's those moments where it's like oh okay when everything else is failing you and your physical body is failing you and you see people that you love and you yourself are coming these very big realizations it's like those moments that we must hold on to that you know because when you see when we get to that place where it's like oh everything's going to break that's where the truth kind of comes up it really comes up and we got to seize it

and hold on to that and receive of it, you know. It's just a very wild, interesting time right now, and it's beautiful to see you come back from doing this work, you know, because a very, very good friend of mine, like I said, you know, to where you went, it changed their life. Yeah, I think we know that person. Yeah. And that person got me to go there.

Yeah. So I also know this person. You do. Me as there and me also. So we, but yes. hey sometimes and it took me a while because i'm like wait how much is this and i know it's like and that's a thing that it's like it's like so expensive but it's not even about that it's like it's also then i get pissed off i'm like man so many people need this kind of thing

they don't have the money man and it pisses me off by the way zach as thoughtful and amazing as he is thinking that he's doing something he wants to do something where people can afford to do things like this yeah because it is important to be like you know i mean i'm lucky and fortunate like i'm not like fucking you know i'm not brad pitt's money i'm just saying i was able to afford to do this. If I could just get in a car and go do that for three weeks. Do you know I went in a heartbeat? I used to do those kinds of things all that go away and all that. It takes that. Yeah. And by the way. It takes that. And it's ass kicking, man, on every single level. Thank you. By the way, I'm taking a moment right now. Thank you. Seriously, thank you.

Thank you. Because it means a lot. It means a lot to me. And it was very hard. And, you know, I'm proud of myself for doing it. And you talked earlier. earlier and I just, I just rang a bell when you said something about you don't feel safe and you don't feel these things. I forgot the context you were talking, but for me, wherever I am, it's, it's not that I don't love. I love my friends. I love my family. I love, I'm very lucky to be doing what I'm doing. But for some reason, I didn't know it until I got there to this place in Connecticut. I realized I have never felt safe until that moment. And, and, and, you know, And when I felt safe, I started getting emotional.

Emotions came out of me that I didn't know I had. That I remember, this is also, I'll end with a funny story. This woman was so gentle. My name was Alicia. And she was like, you know, she had this voice. And she was like, you know, it's, it's okay to, it just made me feel comfortable. The way she was talking. And I thought I was already, I was done mourning my grandparents, my grandfather,

because my grandfather has been he's had Alzheimer's for five years and I feel like it's a long process and it's not something that but I thought I was I thought I was like every year I was mourning him and I'm just I guess I'm fine now I'm gonna be fine I want my grandfather to be out of this misery and all my grandfather had it too I know dude and all it's awful it's awful the worst thing I looked at her and I started fucking crying and I was like and my grandmother's going through this time and she's alone for the first time in her life and my grandfather's here and he was always there from me he was my best friend and he doesn't want to be alive he doesn't want to like you know he this is he's a brilliant man and he has to go through this and it's the only disease that kills you that there's no cure for and i was just getting so emotional and i realized i had not mourned him i was still i was bottling it all up which is so unnatural it's so unhealthy you have to let this shit out and i felt so safe with this woman alicia that i let it out and it poured out and she goes well you know we could i go no no no i feel like a human being i

feel like I felt like such a fucking psychopath my whole life you know and now I'm crying and I just want to keep crying because it feels like I am a fucking live right that's the thing right like in this a lot of the times in the city we don't feel safe because we always have to we're acting whether we know it or not yeah I was tired of putting shit on it's it's exhausting it's fucking exhausting I just want to feel and you know and be fucking honest about it and not have to explain yourself you know or preface it and say oh I'm not crazy but dot that dot dot or but that who fucking cares yeah And she looked at me and she said, Michael, we don't have to do acupuncture today.

I thought she was my therapist. I didn't put it together because I'm going on so many meetings. Yeah, but it's all. The light was already there. Dude, it was. I started crying and laughing. She's seen it all. By the way, she has.

She goes, she goes, this is exactly where you should be. And it was just, it was a magical moment. And you know what? This has been a magical moment for me. You know, a lot of times I think guests come on and, you know, we don't really talk about career as much as I just want to like, open your mind up to maybe the audience gets some advice or can relate to what you're saying or what I'm saying and it's like it's always therapy for me it is this is therapy right now

good good you know I love it and look I love you know we almost got that we never have worked together and Kyle and I wrote this and with Hans we wrote this I know man this cool area 51 movie and now with all the area 51 and Bob Lazar and all these things coming out maybe it's time to revisit this area 51 movie but you and I are supposed to be the We can make something new. Yeah, it was called The Sight. The Sight. Yeah.

Yeah, we made a cool trailer and we tried to sell it. Oh, it's not the right time. It's never the right time. It's never the right time. But I could have seen you as that role. I could still see you as that role. It was like a Sigourney Weaver kick-ass. Like, fuck you kind of woman.

We need a movie like that now. Yeah, we do. You know, where women just kick ass. Yeah, we do. Yeah, I think I died pretty early in the movie. No, I don't know. You killed you just love off. But Jamie King, so where can they find you on social media?

At Jamie J-A-I-M-E underscore King on Instagram and Twitter. Guys, check out Black Summer on Netflix. It's fantastic. Stephen King fucking loved it. I'm really excited. This has been a great interview for me. I really am glad. So glad you're open.

And Jamie King, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. Thank you. I love you. I love you, too. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stackin' Benjamins podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast.

You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. and we're out of here. Stacking Benjamins, follow and listen on your favorite platform.