Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - JAMES GUNN: Taking Over DC, Legacy of GOTG & The Future of Lex Luthor

Episode Date: June 13, 2023

James Gunn (Co-CEO of DC Studios) returns to the pod this week to talk about his takeover of the new DC content slate, the differences between DC and Marvel, and all the pressure that comes with creating a new Superman film. James goes back and discusses the impact that creating Guardians of the Galaxy had on his career and how ‘allowing himself to give a s***’ was a large catalyst to its success. We also talk about embarrassing Chris Pratt moments, whether or not there are too many superhero films, and the future of Superman’s bald headed villain. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🧠Qualia Mind: https://neurohacker.com/iou 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🐮 Moink Box: https://moinkbox.com/ __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum how are you folks uh great episode today it's really exciting um i you know i've been friends with james gunn for a long long time whether he likes to admit that or not um he always gives me shit but jimmy i know you love me that's all i could say and uh a lot going on you know he just went to ireland to uh i don't

to use the word dump but spread spread his father his father's ashes who i adored who anyone who ever came into contact with big jim gun loved him and uh i miss him and i think that was the whole family was going out there and it was very personal james has always uh you know worn his emotions on his sleeve and he's uh it's you know what you see is what you get sometimes he'll say stuff because you know that you know he's not going to bullshit you and um i'm just uh super proud of of him. I was friends with him. We were doing things like PG porn and he asked me to do PG porn and I did some interview show with, you know, that he wanted to do and just going to, you know, his screening for Slyther and, you know, he was always so passionate about everything he did

and he just put it all out there. Like you could see it. You could see the dirt. You could see the grime. You could see the work. And so I'm just, it's amazing. It doesn't shock me, but it shocks me. think that one of your buddies who you know you're roaming around the town with and doing your thing and making what you're making then all of a sudden you're doing blockbuster movies that you're directing and then you're running a studio it's assonine to think then you know someone coming from such humble origins uh you know it's just it's a cool thing i i think uh dreams do come true uh i think this is what he's always wanted was to make movies to tell stories since he was a kid making, you know, eight millimeter, eight millimeter, six millimeter movies with his,

with his brothers and his sister. Beth, I can't forget you. But, uh, I find it fascinating and exciting. And then, uh, watching him get married and going to Aspen and going to his bachelor party and, you know, no strippers or anything. It's just a bunch of guys hanging out at a house, telling stories. And it was emotional. And, uh, we, we talk about a bit about everything. Um, obviously, you know, me, I'm still like the kid. candy store like hey what about the you know we can only talk about so much and i can get so so deep but he's pretty damn open and i appreciate that jimmy and uh you deserve all the success in the world um i do a lot of voiceover work and i act um uh cheesy cheesy but what are you gonna do

um and it's awesome uh please if you if you like this episode you're like hey it wasn't a bad interview maybe you'll listen to it and the handles ryan at inside of you on Twitter at Inside of a podcast on Instagram and Facebook. That is correct. The store is the inside of you online store. We've got a bunch of new stuff on there. The Talkville podcast is going. We just finished season two.

So make sure you watch that. And what else? I will be in, I'll be in D.C. I'll be in Rhode Island. I'll be in a lot of cons coming up. So check it out. And the 24th of June, Sunspin, my band will be playing sunspin.com. Get tickets.

There's tons of cool merch there too. and you can go to stage it.com and type in sun, spin, and support the band. Support the band. And without further ado, why don't we just do this? Why don't we just do this? Let's get inside of James Gunn. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum.

Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. What were you just eating? What was it? A lozenge? Yeah, a cough drop. Is it a lot? Because I don't want to cough during this interview. That's good.

Is it a lozenge or a lozenger? When I was a kid, I always thought it was a lozinger. Nobody thinks that. Yeah, I know. I'm not, you know, I didn't get good grades. Yeah. Are you aware of that? Yeah, I could guess it.

I could trace it back from my knowledge of you today. Do you remember some of my stories at your, bachelor party? Yeah, you made everybody cry one time. I couldn't believe that I said to you. I go, I'm sorry for sharing that. You go, no, actually, you really made me emotional. That was the first time I ever liked you.

Is that true? I mean, you liked me maybe more after that, right? I did like you more after that. Really? Yeah. No, you really shared. You shared something incredibly personal about yourself. And everybody was crying. I didn't notice that. Even Chuck Rovin was getting teary out.

Chuck Roving, the big producer. Chuck? Chuck was like, wow he's fuck this is heavy well we all got a little heavy i thought that was what was nice about it it wasn't like your typical hollywood bachelor party where everybody goes to strip bars and girls it was just the guys your friends yeah at a cool place yeah at a house doing little things for you and eating well and telling stories yeah and that's what you wanted yeah that's what i wanted that's what i like because you've been to the other ones i have been but i haven't been to it i don't think I've been to a like a well let's see no I've been to strip club bachelor parties but it's been a long time yeah me too it's been a long time and last time I went to one I went to one I won't

say who the person is I went to one in uh Vegas and then a lot of the guys went to a strip club but I didn't go to the strip club why didn't you because I'm in a relationship now and you're like don't want to even go there don't you want to see you don't want to like just even put yourself any situation well it's it's it's not that you don't trust you don't yourself it's not even that i wouldn't go it's just i just don't have the desire to go also uh you know i get recognized everywhere now so it's like i don't really want to go to a strip club and have pictures show up somewhere or whatever it's like that's true you have to worry about that now yeah oh head of dc strip bar well this was long before this was long before that yeah that was a long time

but even still i wouldn't get like lap dance i mean for me in my relationship i would consider lap dances probably not kosher within my relationship really yeah So if I was in a relationship with a woman and I went to a strip bar and I had a lap dance, I guess you get aroused. I don't make, I don't make rules for other people. That's you. That's for me. Right.

Yeah. Yeah, that's for me. That's good. You know, I was thinking about this and. God damn. Well, we're going to use it. Don't worry. You won't be able to hear it.

It's your favorite. It's Toto. Oh, my God. You know my music. You know what's funny is you lambast me for my music. Yeah. Yet, sometimes in your soundtracks, there's songs that I'm like, that's a Rosenbaum. Yeah, I use some Rosenbaum songs.

Yeah. I know, but you have to realize my soundtracks are tailored to fit the movie. They aren't necessarily what my taste are. You know that my taste is very different from, you know. I mean, Guardian Street's a little bit different. There's a couple songs that are very much James Gunn songs in there. There's, you know, the song by X, poor girl. That's one of my favorite songs.

Right. There's the replacement song. I will dare. That's a, I mean, classic James Gunn's song. What would you say as a Rosenbaum song in that movie? In that one? That you go, oh, Rosenbaum would like this. Eh, you know, less than that one, but maybe, I don't know.

You like Hart? You like crazy on you? Yeah, come on. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Did you hear their rendition of the Led Zeppelin? I did, actually. Wasn't that great? Yeah.

Just, you're not a huge heart fan. No, I like Hart. You like Hart. I'm not a huge Rob Zeppelin fan. Are you really not? No. I like them. I have a problem with the fact that they ripped off a lot of those early songs.

Like which songs? Their first albums, they had to share all the credit with old guys that they ripped off. They now have to share credit with them. For big songs? All their big songs, bro. They just ripped them all off. I never knew this. Yeah, a lot of people don't know it.

They just stole songs from... Like Black Dog. They sold... I can't remember... What song? Stairway to Heaven. What song was that? That was another song, like an old, you know, blues me...

or something. I swear, look at the credits. They had to change them all. And they weren't like that when they first, you know, released the album. Was it so, so when you first heard their albums, you're like, this is amazing. And then when you found that out, it kind of tainted your, listen, I'm a punk rock kid, right? So I liked, you know, I was a, you know, I was, I was too young for British punk rock, but I remember I was very young when I saw the sex pistols on the American Music Awards for the first time. I must have been 10. Right. And I saw, and I saw, and I saw, saw the sex pistols and I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I mean, first of all, I can't believe that that was on, you know, it's like Dick Clark announcing the American Music Awards. And now live from

London, the sex pistols. And then they have the sex pistols and people have enormous safety pins through their chins and, you know, God save the queen. And he's just, ah, da, and I just, I couldn't believe it. I mean, I'm here a kid in rural Manchester, Missouri, like something I never thought I'd see. And I became obsessed with that. And so, you know, over the next few years, I just always, there was always this thing that, like, the sex pistols were the most extreme, like, they were the coolest. DRI, uh, Dead Kennedys. Well, that was more, so I was mostly into British punk. So it was like, you know, the sex pistols, the clash, the jam, buzzcocks, Generation X, um, you know.

Did you like the Smiths or anything? Or was that too melodic? I liked the Smith, but you have to remember the Smith was a little bit later. So this, I got into punk, I guess, I got into Smith in high school right after I got into but I was never like huge smiths I like the smith where there's some songs in guardians that you really wanted in there but you're like you know they fought you on it all no nobody ever fought me on anything really first one first one they probably did no no never felt me on anything they what happened was so uh you know on the first script you know because I write all the songs into the script right and on the first script you know Kevin Feigey read the script and he said, oh, you know, he says, he said this in interview,

so I'm not like betraying any confidence. He goes, oh, well, that's, that's cute. He thinks these are the songs that are going to be in the movie. Because that's a no-no. That's a sort of one of those. I mean, there's a lot of no-nows in script writing that are not necessarily no-nows if you're also the director. Because to me, the script is a blueprint for the movie.

So I put lots of things in. Like I put in Guardians 3 script, I have drawings of all the guys. characters that I put in the script. So, you know, there's drawings of floor and Lila and all those things that I drew and put in the script. That would necessarily be a no-no if you're just a because you wanted the reader to when the studio read this, you wanted them to see what you were talking about. Not just say, oh, this one's called- Yeah, I wanted you to know what kind of what they looked like. And the emotion would come out more. And I wanted to set a, you know, a design for them. And also, you know, there were little things like, you know, at the end when nowhere and

the arete line up in a certain way when Craglin and Nebula are driving them towards each other. I drew a diagram of what that looked like because it's kind of a complex thing to, you know, write out, but visually it's pretty easy to see. Are you a good artist? Or do you get help sometimes on the drawings that you want? I'm not a, I'm an okay cartoonist, right?

So I can, you know, draw okay, you know, enough to, you know, put in like uh you know what floor looks like or you might would you ever ask for help i want you to can you draw something a little better so they can get a visual of it you have those guys right gals no i mean i did have you know we did some of that but you know but at the beginning it was just me drawing it you know one thing knowing you is like i mean when you were a kid is there something you always wanted to be for lack of a better word in control of your own destiny in control of your like your visions this is the way i want to do it i've always have you always been like that i want it done this way and this is how we're going to do it success or failure this is my

vision and did you sway away did you veer away from that ever or did you kind of because a lot of people will be like okay the studio wants this i'm going to give them what i think they want and what i want no i don't i don't it's it's more complicated than both either of those things for me because i think the thing that you say that doesn't strike true is you know success or failure Either way. At the end of the day, once you finish a project, it is success or failure. It's either way. It's whatever it is. Like once I finish something, it's out of my hands. That's going to be whatever it is. It's going to make however much money it's going to be received by the audience and critics, however it's going to be received. But I want something to be successful. So when you're making a film and when you're making a movie for hundreds of millions of dollars, I don't sit there and go, oh, this is all about my expression. And it's going to be whatever I want it to be no matter what. right however so i listen to other people a lot like when you're on my on my set i'm constantly asking people questions i'm constantly you know saying what do you what do you think of that you know my vfx supervisor you know steff sits next to me and i'm constantly saying do you think you like that

or was it better when he did it the other way you know um do you think that shot works is that little hitch in the shot is that going to screw us up can you fix it you probably know in your gut but you want someone you respect and trust to kind of confirm that maybe i just want to know what other people's opinions are. So I like taking that into account. That's a part of the filmmaking process for me, other people's opinions. You know, the testing process for me is, is, is, you know, partially harrowing and partially really fun. If you use the testing process in the right way where you show a movie in front of an audience and you find out what works and what doesn't work, it can be really helpful to you. Now, it's awful because you're putting a movie out there. And when you're showing it in Los Angeles,

people are especially critical. Also, when your movies test really well, it feels really great also, I have to say, which I've been really fortunate with the past few. But it does help, you know, seeing what works and what doesn't. What confuses people, what doesn't. You know, when you're making a movie, you're making a giant machine

that's supposed to make people and audiences feel a certain way. And so you want to find out what works because sometimes something will stop people that you didn't intend. And sometimes something will stop people. confuse people that you didn't know about you know that you always are revealed something in those early test screenings inside of you is brought to you by rocket money i'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money period it's rocket money it's a personal

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today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. you can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices. Look, cooler temps are rolling in. And as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear nonstop, like Super Soft, 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters,

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Q-U-I-N-C-E. I'm telling you, you're going to love this place. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. Now, there's also this whole top two boxes thing where, I don't know if you know, you've done testing, right? Yeah, yeah.

So you know that in there's, you know, no SDs. For audiences, it's like in the top two boxes, there's, you know, it's, you want the movie to test in the top two boxes. So you want very good and excellence. And sometimes, you know, usually, you know, I've been fortunate because my movies have tested well in the top two boxes for the most part. Right. But that can also be kind of a harness trying to get those top two boxes because what you want to know from a test screening is what works, what doesn't, you know, what gets laughs, what moves people, what confuses people, you know, where do people go off course? And that really doesn't have anything to do with top two boxes. That has to do with more than anything else sitting in the audience with them watching the movie and kind of feeling it and then ask.

questions of a focus group afterwards. Right. That's what helps the most. But, you know, it's a process that can really work. And some directors have a big issue with it, but I don't. You know, we all, but also the other thing is I do a lot of what I would call really small test groups. So I have, I didn't invite you this time because you're in the movie.

Right. But I have a small group of people. You know, I showed a lot of groups, the movie of people I really trust. And you learned a lot from that. Yeah, filmmakers, directors, actors, writers. Do they sit in a room sort of in answer or say questions? Or do you like it blindly? Like they write it down.

They don't write anything down. No, I asked them questions. So we'll, I mean, they can send me stuff afterwards, but. But you don't get insulted at all? I wouldn't say I never get insulted. But yeah, I'm pretty open, you know, because I'm just, I realize everybody's reaction to a movie is just their reaction to a movie. So they may like a character, they may not like a character, whatever.

but I'll sit there we'll do all these mini test screens with like 20 to 30 people and we'll show them certain people have always been a part of this group like Jeremy Slater I show it to every time my brother Brian my cousin Mark Dave Yarvoe I show every time

Stevie Stevie not Stevie's acted in almost all my movies so I usually haven't shown him early on. He's got a big part in this one Yeah he's pretty big role Yeah yeah yeah Do quick Stevie nobody knows him but I do when I love him And he's been in a lot of you see him

low him but you do this it's for me just do it for me like saying james like i guess i don't know whatever you're talking about does he hate it he hates it he says that that doesn't sound like me at all um you know you there's so many questions i want to ask you he plays uh he plays stevie blackheart plays steamy blue liver in three he's a guy that sets out all the cannons at the very end you see more like in the ship and all these things and like you know john yeah um here's what i don't understand like you always what don't you understand well you always wanted to make movies right that's we know that well i mean for the most part since you started making movies you wanted to continue making movies now what's hard for me to rent my head around is it's such a daunting task to make a

movie let alone a successful movie but then you're getting you're doing all these things guardians one is a huge success guardians two is a huge success suicide squad peacemaker all these things and then someone's over at DC says hey we want you to run the studio yeah what would make someone first of all did you think about saying no that's not what I want to do and almost say no when it first came up I was like and it didn't come up nobody came to me and said do you want to run DC but it came to me very early in the process would that be something you would be interested this is very early and I was like nah I don't think so and The reasons were because it was me and it wasn't me and Peter.

What made it appealing to me eventually was because they also went to Peter early on. And he was like, same way. But what eventually became appealing to me was doing it with Peter. So Peter Saffron has been my manager. He's my manager. He's been my manager since I first moved to L.A. When he was back when he was the president of Brillstein-Grey, we're very close friends. We've traveled together.

we hang out with our families together we're you know uh close friends and we've gotten maybe one or two arguments over the past 25 years um of working together we work together exceptionally well we never step on each other's toes i respect his opinion completely about many things and he's you know he respects my opinion about creative stuff and so when it came to us as us as a pair and basically Peter sort of managing everything working as a producer and me basically working as a director directing the creative aspects of things. That became a different story. That became suddenly an opportunity to do something that had never been done before to create the biggest story ever told across, you know, film, television, gaming, and more. And to really create a

cohesive, you know, DC universe. I also knew that there was going to be many challenges as we embarked on that journey because people have different ideas about how things are supposed to be. People have all sorts of things that they love, whether they love things from, you know, the DCEU or they love things from the Aeroverse. They love things from the animated worlds or whatever. That is something that we knew was going to be a ring of fire we were going to have to walk through. And you knew you were going to be loved and hated.

hated at the same time? Because there's always people out there. I knew. I've been used to being loved and hated for a long time. Like, you know, this is, I'm on Twitter, you know. That's what the Twitter is. It's love and hate, you know. Twitter is like the prisoner with the love on one hand and hate on the other.

I'm just punching you in the face with both sides. Yeah. But I knew that it was, I knew there was going to be a period of hardship. you know and i knew that there had been spectacular uh missteps in the past with all sorts of different choices good answer uh but i'm thinking you know were you thinking it to be the head of dc was this going to hinder me from continuing my filmmaking and being so you know having all that passion into one focus as opposed to now i'm going to direct a movie but i also have to worry about running a studio how do we do that yeah i mean i think that kind of helps that out because he's

Peter helps it out. I think that it's always been, you know, I only have so much time in my day. I only have so much I can do. And I think it was always a question about how much am I going to spend on writing? How much am I going to spend on directing?

How much am I going to spend, ushering other writers? How much am I going to spend ushering other directors? How much am I going to spend mapping out, you know, sort of a story that other writers can follow? There's like, I only have so much I can do. I'm aware of that.

And so, yeah, it did. And I love direct. so it's i didn't want to lose that either um but at my heart i'm a storyteller in my heart i am i am not the same as other filmmakers i don't think some other filmmakers for sure but in my heart i consider myself a storyteller i don't consider myself a director over being a storyteller i'm a storyteller first and that means whatever way i'm able to tell that story i'm okay i have this conversation with dave yarva the director of bripern is one of my best friends because he wants to direct movies like he's mostly interested in directing movies. That's what he wants to do. I'm like, I, you know,

if I can tell a great TV story, that is like doing Peacemaker was absolutely great for me. You know, doing a movie is absolutely great. Like if I'm proud of what I'm putting out, I'm really happy. It doesn't really matter to me what that story is. You know, I started out, I wanted to write comic books when I was younger. If I was writing comic books today, I'd probably be, I'd probably be unhappy because, you know, so few people are reading comic books. Um, but I would probably be, uh, you know, really, you know, happy with what my job was. I'd enjoy that storytelling process. So that's what's important to me. You know, I just happen to be good at directing because directing takes a lot of different weird talents that I do many of those things, but not all

well. And, you know, being any director, there's always things that you do great and things you do okay and uh and it's a complicated job it's a very complicated inside of you is brought to you by rocket money if you want to save money then listen to me because uh i use this ryan uses as so many people use rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions crazy right how cool is that monitors you're spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings and you know what's great it works it really works ryan rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you

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Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked. And Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. I think it's amazing.

how I look at your career and I was there when you were like you know we were hanging and you know doing you were doing human z and pg porn yeah I met you when I was directing I met you when I was directing my first movie slither yeah slither yeah well I didn't meet you then I met you before then we met at the premiere for yeah paddle and everything and that's who we have mutual friends and then we hit it all um so I saw you doing these little independent like these little labor of loves like I'm going to do this with my brother and my friends and I'm going to do pg porn with the guys and I'm going to do this and you know and you were doing stuff and you're working and you were successful and you had a little money you weren't like whoa

yeah but and you're still living in the house over in Sherman Oaks yeah and missed that house is great yeah studio city studio city yeah yeah um should I get the address no no no no no no somebody lives there I know I know I do they like James Gunn lives here he he had sex in this room um but I look at that and I'm like did you really think because I'm sure a lot of people were like going hey he's he's a good director he makes some cool shit he makes a cool horror movie he makes a cool horror movie he makes says to for a studio to give you a movie like Guardians of the Galaxy to say here is it just doesn't it seems unheard of that they would be well what was who's his last movie oh it was memento okay let's give him or it was something huge something whatever and it wasn't like you did something that was a fucking

home run right it was good it was great but it wasn't so how to so i know the story but how hard did you have to push to really get something like that, to prove yourself, to prove your vision that it's going to work? I would say I pushed really hard, but also I didn't push hard at all. So it was a combination, you know, because I was ready to quit directing, you know? Really? 100%.

I was like, listen, I was seeing how the tide was turning. I was seeing that, you know, they were stopping making, you know, mid-budget films. And that I always liked creating things that were somewhat within the zeitgeist. and I was seeing that most of the movies that they were going to let me direct the $30 million movies were gone and that everything was big Marvel movies

and they're never going to give me that and yes I would love to do a Hulk movie that was like a big one at the time. But you didn't think it was going to happen. But I didn't think there was any way it was going to happen even though I'd met with Marvel a couple times about little things. I tried to get them to do Hit Monkey.

I tried to get them to do something else. I didn't think that they were going to hire me for some big movie, you know? so I was like I don't think it's going to happen I'm going to focus I see the future of television being really bright

which I was right about and I loved I just made a video game that did very well and so I liked doing that Is that lollipop? Lollipop change I was in it

which you were in I was the head of Nick I had no penis You were the male league I love that people still come up to me for autographs yeah yeah yeah so it's like I had so I'm like I'm gonna focus

on television and gaming that's what I'm gonna do I'm done and I told my agent quit putting me out for movies because I'm going to focus on television and gaming. I just tried to get some movie that I couldn't get, which I seemed perfect for. And then Marvel called up and said,

well, he come in. We want to tell him about this thing we're doing. And I was like, God damn it, you know, because Marvel's far away. So at the time, now it's in Burbank. But at the time, it was in Manhattan Beach. Oh, that's an hour. Dude, yeah.

That's a fucking hour. And this was like I was going to have to drive home in rush hour. So I was going to drive from Studio City in the Manhattan Beach. So they could pitch me and they could check me off their list and they're not going to, it's not really something that I'm going to want to do. You think you're wasting three or four hours of your day? I think I'm wasting four hours of my day. Right? But I'm like, okay, I drive down there.

I remember stopping and getting a bite to eat because I was early and talking to my agent or my lawyer Andrew Hurwitz on the phone and being like, yeah, I mean, I'm going to go on this thing. It's silly, but I go in there and then they pitch me guardians. and and that's really how it started. So it started like that. And then, you know, I've told the story many times about how it came to me and all this. But what I did was I worked really hard. Like there's that speech that Peter Quill gives

in the first Guardians of the Galaxy where he says, you know, this is about giving a shit. And that's what it was like for me for the first time because I had attributed all of my success to really hard work and not giving a shit. And I allowed myself to give a shit. I allowed myself to actually want to get this gig. And I sort of fell in love with the concept

of doing The Guardians of the Galaxy. I fell in love with, I had always wanted to do a space opera. That was my biggest dream to do a space opera in my own way. And I saw the opportunity here. And so I really worked hard. And I probably worked harder than anybody else in terms of, I wrote up this huge Bible on what the visuals were going to be.

I remember how. I wrote a big, I did storyboarded the whole first sequence from the movie and, you know, did a lot of work on the characters that, you know, all this art, all these things. It was harder to prep this and get this all. By the time you went on set, it was almost like probably a little bit of a relief.

Oh, well, yes. On this, on the first Guardians, absolutely, because you were prepared. I was, I'm incredibly. I'm incredibly prepared, but also I wasn't, what I wasn't prepared for was on the other movies I had done, I was better at most of the department heads at their jobs than they were. You know, I knew more about a lot of those jobs than they did because I couldn't hire the best and the brightest. Now, there's obviously some great people I worked with throughout the years.

But suddenly I'm making a movie for over $100 million. and I've got, you know, just the greatest, you know, department heads. And my AD was better than I was. My, you know, my DP, my camera operators. Has he been an AD on all three? No, no, no, no, Lars started on two. On two. I love Lars.

Lars, who is now a D.C. employee. Lars, who is now, you know, running a lot of our production at D.C. Love him. He was my AD. That was the thing that I went when I walked on set. The crew, they were so amazing. and your DP, sorry for memory lapse. Henry.

Henry Bram, who shot fucking. He shot, you know, Guardians 3, Suicide Squad, Guardians 2. He shot The Flash, which people are going to see is just one of the greatest movies ever made. So it's like, he's an incredible talent. And such a wonderful guy. He, you know, just the way he's like,

hey, Michael, how he been, man? Yeah. He's so laid back. He doesn't let it. He's not, he freaks out sometimes. Yeah, Henry's not laid back. Well, he's got to freak out. You have a big personality.

I didn't say he freaks. say he freaked out. I just said he's not laid back. All right. He's a little anxious. He can seem laid back, but that's, you know, just a man. I don't see those things because I'm not. He's an intense guy. Right. You know, I normally don't write questions down, but I did because I didn't want to forget him. But I have Suicide Squad and Peacemaker are stories about very flawed people, when you say? Yeah, I think they're all my stories. How do you handle stories about Superman or Wonder Woman who are not flawed and are basically gods? Well, I'm not writing Wonder Woman. I am writing Superman. I know. Um, but I think that's,

you know Superman's flawed I mean not all characters have flaws there's not it's not as if he's not flawed but he's also probably not he's not flawed in the same way

Peter Quill is Peter Quill's a mess right he's not flood Peter Quill isn't flawed in the same way Rocket Raccoon is flawed Rocket Raccoon's a real mess you know what I mean so it's like

these are really deeply injured characters and Superman is different than that But I think that it's, it's, it's very indicative of my own journey that I've been on, you know, personally, through my life. I think that I was a lot more flawed when I started writing Guardians than I am when I started writing Superman. I'm a lot less anxious. I'm a lot less. I don't have the same problem.

Which is amazing to me. How are you less anxious now with all that's on your plate? I was having this conversation with Chris, McDonald, our mutual good friend. And I said, I don't know how he does it. I don't know how he is not just, like, if you give me more than one thing to focus on, I'm stressed, I'm anxious. But the fact that you have a whole studio and all this TV and video games and Superman and all that and how are you not, how do you, what do you do to make yourself not stressed? Well, I meditate and I pray and I do things, you know, and I'm not going to pretend like I'm not stressed. but I think in general, I'm okay, I'm pretty fluid, you know, and I think that I have a great

acceptance in, you know, accepting what I cannot change and having the courage to change the things that I can change. And so I think that being able to be, you know, sober, first of all, is a huge, many years. Many years sober, being able to meditate, being able to, you know, realize that I can only do what I can do. When you have a job as big as what my job is now, like I could be working 24 hours a day easily. And kill yourself. And kill myself.

But I can only do what I can do. And I know that I need to take care of myself. Also, frankly, I love working. I'm not a guy who doesn't like working. Somebody wrote me on Twitter the other day. They said, you know, how do you balance, you know, oh, I know what it was. I was saying something I was reading as a comic book. I was reading Alan Moore's Wildcats.

comic. And they said to me, are you reading this for pleasure or are you reading this for professional reasons? And I said, and I didn't say anything. I don't think I just remorse you in the thing and thinking about that. And I'm like, why was I reading it? And I thought, I do everything I do for both of those things. You know, I mean, I don't. If you like something, you want to make it. Well, I'm inspired by things that I read and I look for inspiration. I look for new ways of handling superheroes and science fiction that are in comic books. Um, you know, I look for characters that we can use in the DCU in different ways that maybe I don't know so much about. Um, but I'm also reading for pleasure because I like reading comic books and that's, you know, I'm going to read that. Um, some things are much more for, you know, I read some comic book runs that I'm not a great fan of that are, you know, more specific to what our story might be in the DCU. That is a little bit more professional. And then I read other things like, you know, Alan Moore, which I am reading in a lot of ways for pleasure as much as I am for professional. but yeah everything's a mix i like working you know i like everything inspires everything else you know

do you think that there are two obviously i'm asking a studio head so this i you know i have a feeling what the answer is going to be but you know am i the first studio head that you've interviewed here yeah i know a couple i should invite them but no i don't want to why because no it's a different it's different you're a studio head but you make huge movies and you direct them and produce them and write them it's like yeah it's just more interesting than yes i say you yes or no. Do you think that there are too many superhero shows and movies and because I remember when I did Smallville, there were none. Yeah, I do think there's too many. So what do you do about that? But I don't think it's, it's not, it's, it's much less a problem of too many. And yes,

we are going to, we're not going to overextend ourselves at DC. We're going to be very careful with the product that we put out and making sure everything is as good as it can possibly be. but I think that what's happened is people have gotten really lazy with their superhero stories and they have gotten the place where oh it's a it's a superhero let's make a movie about it you know and they make oh let's make a sequel because the first one did pretty well and they aren't thinking about why is this story special what makes this story stand apart from other stories what is the story at the heart of it all? Why is this character important?

What makes this story different that it fills a need for people in theaters to go see, you know, or on television? And that's a hard thing, isn't it? And I think that it's just that that's kind of gotten, you know, people have gotten a little lazy and there's a lot of, you know, Biff, pow-Bam stuff happening in movies

and like I'm watching third acts of superhero films where I really just don't, and I don't feel like there's a rhyme or reason to what's happening. You don't care. I don't care about the characters. Right. you know and it's and and they've gotten too generic like there's this sort of um you know middle of

the road uh you know type of you know genre tone that so many superhero movies have as opposed to having you know very different genres i mean i like very serious superhero movies i like very comedic superhero movies i like ones that are really just just, you know, a murder mystery, but it's, you know, with superheroes. You know, I like to see these different types of stories as opposed to seeing the same story told over and over again. I don't know how many times I, you know, I don't want to go off anything. No, you're not.

Well, it's honest. And I think people really need to hear that because it's, it's sincere in a sense that you're also a fan. And you want to make movies that have impact, that have them, that people want to see and not recycle things. So you want to sort of condense it to a. let's make something that we really not that people don't work hard on everything they do everything everybody works hard but the stories have to be more compelling yeah and i i think that also like

and then people say superhero fatigue but i think that you know you see now that it's not a real thing people have are fatigued with repetition and i i don't think it's really just superhero movies i think you're seeing it happening now it's spectacle films in general you know i think it's more than that. I think when's the last great comedy? Can you remember the last great comedy? Yeah, but there are so few of them made that you don't have, you know, but, but there's a lot of spectacle films made. And they just have gotten really generic and they've gotten boring. And they aren't about characters and there's no emotion to them. And there's, there should be emotion and things no matter what. Like that should always be there. Some type of emotion. I'm not saying it can't

be really light. I'm not saying it can't be really heavy. I'm saying there should be some you're right and that goes with horror and comedy everything that's right it's just all the you got to care like in a horror movie if you like that main character then you're much more scared when they're about if you care about them exactly if you take the time to make the stakes matter and it doesn't even matter big stars think about it if you put out a movie let's say james gun put out a movie with dc for dc or you made another marvels a suicide well this guy was dc but if you put it out there and it was a bunch of no names if the trailer's great

people are going to see it they don't care if so-and-so is in my opinion especially horror movies maybe not as much in the big Marvel DC universe maybe you need some stars but like for the whole I'm telling you you know no it's much more important to me that the actor fits the role

and look I mean look at guardians I mean Zoe was somewhat of an established name when we started out but she you know she was the biggest star we had in the Chris wasn't and he was the Chris wasn't a star at all. Exactly. He was not a star, you know?

And Dave Batista was not even known to the general public. But don't you think that's why it kind of worked? That's why it worked. I don't think it's because of that it worked. I think that if we had a big star who came in and killed his star lord, it would have done well. But I think that it's about the performances first and foremost. And that when you have, you know, characters like, you know, and those were unknown characters, by the way. the characters were not celebrities nobody i mean a couple hundred thousand people read guardians comics

before the movie came out yeah and they also changed a lot over the years so there was no real fan base to you know i didn't know what the hell it was yeah i didn't know what guardians of the galaxy was i hadn't read the the comics i wasn't i was a horror movie fangoria i know you read fangoria so i wasn't so it was like it was all it was definitely a like a it was a risk yeah it was a risk because people, it wasn't something that they're like Superman that they know, okay, we know this. You know, Chris Pratt gave a speech at the end of, you know, as we were wrapping

up the third movie. And he gave this beautiful speech. And he was crying. I didn't cry at all. He was crying profusely, just sobbing like a baby. This is what he does with Pratt. This is their joke. So he was very much crying like a baby. And it was a little embarrassing in how much it went on and cried.

Like I got to say, this is not what the story is about. But it was sort of embarrassing how much he was a big baby. He was a big baby. And people, a lot of people were snickering. I wasn't, you know, a lot of people were laughing. His wife was embarrassed. Well, if we ever show the tape, like in the behind the scene, she's going to, it's

cringy. Oh, no, no, he gave this beautiful speech. And in the speech, what he was reading off, he went back and he looked up all of the articles that were written about the Guardians before the movie came out. And he's quoting, you know, this is going to be Marvel's first bomb. This is, and it was just all this stuff about. about nobody caring about these characters, you know? Wow.

And it was, you know, you cried. What? You cried. I, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got, I got teary. I got teary. I got a male, very masculine tear. But I will admit, I cried a lot. It's Zoe's speech, it was really, yeah.

Okay. I think, yeah. I don't know if you're fucking with Pratt again on that. I'm not. I think he probably gets jealous when I say that, but it's true. I cried, I cried a lot in her speech. I wish people knew about, they were there on your wedding day when Pratt read the um this so james wrote something for pratt to read

and i'm not kidding i could not stop laughing everyone was just and it was like i have everything i am to james gunn without me i'd still be the heavyset it was it just went and it was like his wife's much prettier than my wife i and it was just and it went on yeah i wrote his speech for Chris and he read it at the wedding I've never shared this but it's like I read this feet yeah and he wrote this and he comes up and he goes you know my name is Chris Pratt

and then he goes on I owe everything I have. Yeah he talks about how Foxy my wife is and how Of course he's reading with James Roe he's like I married Catherine she's pretty good you know he would break and he's like I'm sorry Catherine I didn't you know and he goes on and he talked about how much better

the Guardians movies are than Jurassic Park movie or Jurassic World movies yes oh my god that it was very funny i'm aging i thought it was the best part he was so funny he was so funny the way he delivered it and uh and people afterwards were like you know because his acting was so good people were like did you really not read that till you went up there well half the people were like Chris did you really write that i thought that at first i was like yeah actually write this and it's like no no i wrote it but he and then the other half were like did you really not read it before you went up there and because he goes uh because he acted like he hadn't read the speech before he started reading it but he had we had actually come up we were

flying back from san diego comic con and we were talking about what uh he was going to read at my wedding and then we came up with that concept together so do you know what the best part the best speech though and i'm always saying this because you talk about flawed characters yeah and i think you write about flawed characters knowing you because you are a flawed character and you kind of relate to those characters who you know are you know they're kind of that group of guys that are misfits it's like the the the land of misfit toys i think you called us once all your friends you know it's like uh what was it i'm a charlie in the box i'm not you know whatever that's you that's me i'm am i charlie in the box yeah thank you your voice is that

irritated uh but you you you said you had this speech and um it was really personal and there wasn't there was everybody there was just holy shit and it was the most sincere most i mean i've seen you honest but like this you said something because because I can relate to. That's why I think I was crying. I cried for sure. I know Stevie cried. Pretty much everybody cried.

But you said, I knew, I know intellectually, I'm not, I'm not quoting you exactly. You wrote it much better than I'm going to repeat. But you said that my friends love me, that my mom loves me. Yeah. I know that because I'm smart enough to understand that. Of course, they love me. Yeah. But I don't, I've never been able to feel it.

Yeah, that's true. Yeah. And that crushed a lot of people because I think that is where a lot of people can kind of relate. I always feel like I know I had these friends who love me. Yeah. But for some reason, I don't think I'm worthy of that. Yeah. Or I'm like.

And so, and then you met Jen and she taught you how to love yourself in a way. And there was, I don't know how you said it, but maybe you want. All right. Yeah. And I've shared this publicly before. Oh, you have? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. have. The thing is, is that I lived, you know, I love creating and I love telling stories. But like a lot of people in the entertainment industry, I think that I had an underlying desire to be loved. You know, that my quest for fame and money and notoriety and status was a quest to have people love me so that I feel okay about myself right yep um that's what the a huge part of my quest was now there was a healthy part of it which is the part that like to create that like to tell stories you know the part that my you know my brothers and i plan with you know fisher price characters you know in the basement

like you're still telling stories in that way you're still playing shooting eight millimeters in the forest all of that stuff but i really wanted to be rich and famous like a lot of people did i'm glad you admit that because i don't know how many times i said come on people will say oh i never want to be famous i want to i think that's a lot of bullshit i think people do want fame yeah yeah yeah until you get it yeah yes you're not happy before you get it you're in trouble yeah yeah so uh i think that you know um and when i got fired which people know happen um uh you know i was temporarily fired by by by disney and let go for a beat there it was like holy shit i've been working my entire life to be loved by all of these people by the world so that i can

feel okay about myself in everything i've worked for is gone like at that point i thought that i was going to have to sell my house you know move away that my career was completely over and for a moment a brief moment, it was really more than a brief point. It was devastating for, you know, but really devastating for about an hour. And then I started to try to take care of myself, do the best I can. But the thing that was so amazing to me was in that moment of, of lowness, when I couldn't help anyone, you know, because I'd had a fair amount of power for a while, right? And I couldn't help anyone is when people came to me and showed me the greatest love. People like you, especially my future wife, Jen, my family, my mom and dad, you know, Chris Pratt, Dave Batista, Palm Clementiaf, all the guardians,

you know, Zoe coming over and cooking me dinner, Sylvester Stallone, the amount of people, people, you know, that showed me this love in a moment when I was completely weak, my, you know, my agents, Simon Hatt, my producer, all of these people, just, it was stunning to me. And for the first time in my, I felt like for the first time in my life, I felt loved. And so that thing that I had been searching for my entire life to feel loved from something outside of me, to make myself feel okay, I could not experience. it until I let go of my desperation to receive it. And that was when I felt truly okay. And I woke up that morning thinking, this is the worst day on my entire life. I laid in bed that

whole night going, I hate being fucking famous. I hate being fucking famous. I hate it. I hate it. I hate it. And I woke up that morning. It was the worst day in my entire life. And I went to bed that night and I was lying next to Jen. And I looked over at her. And I realized how much I loved her. I realized that I wanted to marry her. And, uh, and I said, this is the best day in my life. I'm actually, you know, myself. And, uh, it only took me another five years to ask her marry me. But it was, but it was, but it was, that was, that was, for me, that was the beginning of everything. That was the beginning of the second life. That was, that was me really being able to then focus and say, okay, let go of the need to be loved. Let go of the need to be rich.

Like, what I need to just focus on is, why do I love making movies? And it's for the story. It's I love the characters. It's the collaboration with the other department heads, the other filmmakers, the actors. Like, that's why I love making movies and telling stories. I love the audience reacting to my movies. I love the fact right now that, you know, people all over the world every day are saying, you know, such sweet things.

And it really is about the creative process for me. And if I can focus on that, then that's what makes me happy, you know? That's awesome, man. That's awesome. It's amazing how you've told it, but you think something is going to make you happy. You think the money, the fame, this. And all of a sudden, you get thrown on your ass and you're just like, you're numb. I know that numb feeling, that numb feeling of just like, almost like, I'm embarrassed, shame, nothing.

And you're like, who really is going to be there? because you don't expect that moment to happen at this point in your life. And then boom, and they're like, we love you. Yeah. We don't care. Well, that's...

And the weird thing was, too, Michael, that, like, the thing was, was I think, oh, people like me because I'm smart and I make good movies and I direct them well. It's not for the real you. You know, that is part of me. I know. That's all part of me.

But the thing that really saved me was that I had been incredibly kind to people over the years, you know? And so by being kind of, to people, by being kind to my crew people, by making them feel like people, by giving them respect, by forming genuine bonds with human beings that wasn't just about career or getting something out of them or whatever. That was the thing that I felt that I had put into my life that had worked so well, was just a gentle kindness to everyone. And I'm not a saint,

right? I'm not kind all the time. It's not like there haven't been time. It's not like there haven't been when I've been unkind, but in general, I've been really kind to people throughout my entire career. And it makes all the difference in the world. And a lot of people aren't. You know, I was just talking about this, about, you know, especially with studio heads and, you know, ultimately, whether you're in the real world and you work for a corporation or you work for Disney or whoever you work with, a lot of times when you renegotiate, you really feel unloved and like um disrespected and you don't feel and i don't know how many times where it's just like well when you negotiate often times the first time it's the worst yeah but it could be so much

not even the money if creators or head of studios could just give a call every once in a while to just say or or talk to someone yeah not even heads of studios i'm talking about from whoever from a director to just saying hey i really want to say i appreciate your work and yeah and and thanks for all your hard work. That's it. Something, instead of just coming into, to, there's just like, if it's more of a connection,

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I'm still directing, right? I'm just directing bigger projects and different things. And so I think that it's through appreciation, you know, and, you know, it's something was modeled quite well for me by Kevin Feigey and Lou Diaspinsia. who are the heads of Marvel and who always let me know that they appreciated my work. You know, I always knew

that they appreciated it. Like, I always came in under budget and I knew they appreciated that. I always knew that they liked the movies themselves that I was creating. So I think that you need to let people know that. I think that my cast knows how much I appreciate what they do.

And the crew. The crew hugely. Like, you know, a lot of directors, you can just never hear the crew come out of their mouths when they're doing interviews. Yeah. But, you know, I talk about Beth Mickle, who's my production designer all the time.

I talk about Judeana Mikovsky, who does my costume design. Awesome. Those, by the way, my, you know, I hired a new editor yesterday. He came in and I said, you got to get used to. We do a different thing. You know, we, I really,

departments all work together. Like, I have a crew of people around me now, have been around me for a long time. And Judiana and Beth are on all my phone calls because the three of us together along with Steph, our VFX supervisor, and Henry, the DP. They're going to get the vision. We are all the aesthetics of Superman, right?

So we all have to work together to create this one unified aesthetic. The same thing that we all did on Suicide Squad, the same thing we all did on Guardians 3. We have to work together to create one unified aesthetic. And so it's not really a, there's, not a sharp division between photograph and set or between costume and hair and set and so there those people are a part of all these choices you know and we interact with makeup with hair with legacy or you know prosthetic effects department all of those things have to work together because one thing

I noticed early on when I started directing bigger movies was I would watch other big movies I don't want to name them, but occasionally I'd see another big movie where it's like, well, you can tell that the costume designer wasn't on the same page with the set designer, wasn't on the same page with the hair designer. And they're all individually great pieces of work, but together they don't fit. It has to be a palette. They don't look like there is, well, it's a similar palette, but it's also just there's a look. There's an aesthetic that you want to put against everything, you know, and so, and especially

with my movies with, you know, with how we're doing Superman, we're creating an aesthetic that hasn't existed before. So it's... What is that? Well, you'll have to see it. But, I mean, it's about creating something different. And so you really need to make sure that everybody...

I started talking about how those people aren't mentioned and I just went on to other stuff. Anyway, those people aren't brought up a lot. And you don't understand, like, everybody's actors, actors, actors, and the actors are incredibly important. They create a lot. But man, you know, if you're just... talk about an actor versus what beth mickle did who created all the sets like really the biggest voice is

beth's she's you know in terms of what guardians three is beth is as important as is anybody yeah um with superman i know you can't talk too much about it i mean you mentioned in a couple of tweets is that true there'll be a crypto dog crypto the dog is that what's called there is a dog named crypto in the comics yeah so was that just a tweet tweet you can't mention or you're smiling i didn't say that in a tweet oh you didn't no oh somebody else was doing that yeah somebody somebody mentioned crypto maybe it was a joke so who knows yeah i i like chris pratt and i were talking about crypto in a uh interview and i said oh that he could play crypto oh okay and then chris goes oh now we're saying that crypto's in the movie that's a scoop gotcha um do you feel like out of all the big movies you've done and you've done big fucking movies

is be honest you will be yeah do you feel the most precious pressure with Superman i did up until i finished the script now it's fun you love the script i love the script and people love the script and so like i feel great about the script right i felt a shitload of pressure at the beginning. Like, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Do you go through those phases? Why am I doing this definitely?

But I think that it was, you know, people know I was offered Superman years ago. I said no because I didn't know quite how to tackle it. And I think that, you know, but because of that, I kept thinking about it and thinking about it and thinking about it. How could I create a Superman?

That's true to the character of Superman that absolutely loves the character Superman and yet is a take on Superman that's different enough that it's worth you know making a big budget movie about it um that it's worth people seeing it that it won't be boring you know all of those things so uh so yeah so now i i yeah so now i feel good about it so now it's fun now we're just finding and and then i felt a lot of pressure frankly finding, you know, casting the roles. Sure. And, you know, saying, God, is there even?

I know how hard, it was so hard to find Star Lord. I can't tell you. I looked at hundreds of people before Chris. I met with you. You did. And I know, yours was the worst. It was the worst of all. I'm aware of it.

No, I mean, I saw so many people for Star Lord. I couldn't find the right person until Chris. And so I was worried about that. But now that we've kind of done a lot of auditions, we're narrowing it down. and we're not done yet. By the way, there's a lot of stories out there

about who were auditioning and all these screen tests and all that. You know, I'm just saying it's not all true. That's for sure. Like, there's things in there that are completely false. But I can't go out there and say, oh, this isn't true and this isn't true

without saying, you know, can I ask you this? Going through everything. And by the way, it's not the audience is, you know, right now at this point, I don't think it's the business of anyone who's screen test. for a role. That is a very private thing. So someone does that. Shut your mouth.

Someone's putting, well, listen, journalists have to do what they have to do. That's their job. How would a journalist find out? They're trying to get hits. They find out some things from agencies, but here's the problem is that they find out some things from agencies that might be true. They find out other things from agencies, which are agencies pushing their clients and trying to pump it up like, look, don't you see it? Because there's been some things out there. I'm like, what? I think my this person? I think my client. I think my clients. is testing yeah so it's like it's like there's a lot of nonsense that comes out of it and that's difficult because there's people out there that are supposedly testing that aren't and that must

be difficult for them as people and there's other people that might be testing that might be testing yeah and that are out there that might be testing and I think it's not it's a private thing between me and them or someone that puts themselves on tape and then they say oh I tested well that happens to that happens well the thing that you know that happens also is people say hey they offered me this movie like directors do that I had that with somebody who's on my podcast saying oh yeah they offered me the Rolex Luther I go no they didn't they didn't offer anybody the Rolex Luther then I called the creator and go hey dude I just no I think yeah yeah no we had somebody say that we had these directors say it about a DC project they offered us this project I'm like no no they met with

one of our executives about potential projects to pitch on that isn't the same as offering it probably you just have to let it go and go I'm not fucking even entertaining this yeah you know what I mean so but whatever the case there's a lot of untruths out there sure let me ask you this

or just promise that or will the Lex Luthor character there'll be a Lex Luthor right Finn isn't that already known yeah they think everybody thinks there's a Lex Luthor out there but I've never said there was a Lex Luthor in there. All right.

So if there were a Lex Luthor. If there were a Lex Luthor, okay. If there were a Lex Luthor in this movie, and there's a lot of other villains, so it may not be Lex Lent. And you are the best Lex. Let's admit it. We know you're the best Lex.

Come on, you're being funny. I'm not being funny. You're definitely the best Lex. Really? Definitely. But not right for your movie. Not right for my... I didn't say there was even a Lex in the movie.

I know. But if there were a Lex Luthor, promise me this. Uh-huh. you'll he'll be he'll have gravitas or he'll have uh he'll have a he'll he'll be lex luther he won't be playing lex luther but he's more acting like this character or this or goofy or crazy he's going to be something that's grounded in real i know you i'm sure that everything's grounded in real yeah yeah everything's right because i'm not saying anybody's done that i'm just saying that that you know

maybe somebody's done that maybe maybe that's happened but yeah anyway we'll continue on uh this is this is one of my last questions you've worked on marvel and dc films how do the two universes differ in terms of tone style and approach to storytelling and what are there some of the challenges and opportunities that come with working in each um i don't think that there's any you know i don't think you can because relatively um the mcc and now the dc u in film which really doesn't start. I mean, the first DCU character for sure is Blue Beetle. And the first full DCU movie is Superman. Um, you know, now that that's happening, it's, it's relatively new. The same thing

with, with Marvel. I mean, even MCU is relatively new. So I don't know if there's any innate things about tone because I think that what both MCU and DCU need to do is to have a wider range of tones than they presently do. I think they work to do that, but I think they can do a better job of it. Yep. The biggest, but, but if you look at the MCU, there are very few superheroes. The, you know, there are very few traditional superheroes. There was never a guy with a secret identity until Spider-Man in the MCU.

Their cap was turned into a soldier, even though he wears a mask. And that's all there was in DC. You know, Iron Man outed himself at the end of the first Iron Man because they don't want to deal with the secret identity stuff. So there is a bit more of a fantasy element to DCU because there are these larger-than-life superheroes. And you can't take that.

You're not going to make, I mean, people are going to do whatever they're going to do in the future. But for me, you know, there's Superman and Clark Kent. Like, they're two different characters and you have to find a whale to deal with them. that's as grounded as possible within this world of D.C. One of the things I love about D.C. and excites me about D.C.

is that in a way, it is, it's another alternate history. You know, it is Gotham City and Metropolis and Star City and Bloodhaven and, you know, all these different places in this other reality. And it makes it a little bit like Westeros in some ways. I love that about it. I love that we get to create true world building in D.C. It isn't just, we're throwing some superheroes on Earth. Yeah, yeah.

I like that. So I think that right now, that's one of the key differences. What's your favorite Marvel movie besides Guardians? MCU or Marvel. Both. My favorite MCU movie is Iron Man. The original. Yes. I think it's an incredibly great movie.

But my favorite Marvel movie is probably Deadpool, which... Really? Well, actually, no, my favorite Marvel movie is into the Spider-Verse. People love that movie. Yeah, everybody loves that movie. It's great. I haven't seen it. Yeah. You haven't seen it to the Spider-Ver's? I know. I know. I'm going to see it. Oh, dude, it's the best superhero movie ever made. Really? I think so. You love it that much. I do love it. DC, favorite movie of all time. DC movie.

For a Superman. I mean, it's... What behind you? Signed by Gene Heckman. Oh, that's pretty cool. You're better than... You did a better job. I love Gene He but he played, you know, he played...

I loved it. Anyway, I'm not going to get in the leg off at the end. I had to hear you bitch about your bald head for... Well... Years. Only because they wanted to shave it twice a day. I was getting nicked. I was bleeding.

I was like, I couldn't lay down because they would get makeup on there. I was a whiny bunch. The audience. I should have cried with Pratt. on that video you you complained a lot about your ball all right well is peacemaker really coming back or is there just no time for it no peacemakers coming back right after superman that's my next thing so then you'll just lock in the superman yeah i mean go straight from superman to peacemakers suicide squad too but wallers first and wallers a lot of the same people from peacemakers so i mean

this is all yeah but yeah suicide squad too is there's no you don't have any i plans for doing that all right this is last this is the shit talking these are my top tier patrons it's rapid fire all right all right shit talking with james gunn uh patron dot com slash inside of you thank you for listening you guys make the show possible uh james gun what is your all-time favorite tv theme song i thought you can name mine probably my favorites i mean i'm sure there's one than i i like more but i think of the taxi theme song oh that strings it talks at your heart yeah yeah because it gives you that feeling you know what was it done also welcome welcome back catter what about welcome back catter oh well the names have all changed since you

turn around and the dreams that you hang on wait what was it uh you got to be dude we'll edit this don't worry that is i think that's mine i'm not i swear to god i'm not saying it this is my favorite it's a different version yeah that's a weird yeah find the right but that come on that's a I mean, there's something about that driving over the bridge. Yeah, and you're just like, I think about being, like,

it's just so peaceful to me. Also, MASH. Yeah, MASH is good. Hill Street Blues. Like, you know, there's certain ones that I remember from childhood that make me feel like, you know, certain calmness.

Yeah, I love that. If Nathan Jay, if the Guardians of Galaxy fought the suicide squad, who would win? Uh, I think suicides got guys are more violent. They're more willing, but I just don't, I think that, listen, I always thought that

the guardians would beat the shit out of the Avengers easily. Like it's just, they're outer space. They have technology that is, you know, pretty advanced. So it'd be hard to beat them. Dave P., any more sleeper 80s hair metal bands you plan to use for the theme songs and upcoming projects? Oh, well, I mean, Peacemaker's Season 2 I've already got a... I love that music.

yeah that's a that's a great you know that's my i like that shirt and you like there's a lot of cool modern bands yes you know wigwam uh uh cruel intentions it's just goes with the show it's just it's it's it's like it's like you have your actors the music it all comes to you know what i mean man i got a new soundtrack for creature commandos which is that's actually the first full dc u project so that's the animated show we're doing you know and that comes out in um you know a year or so but it's uh we're recording it all now you know i do voiceovers i've been doing voiceovers for my entire life anyway michelle k what's something surprising you learned about yourself in the last year well i think we talked about that well that was that was more than a

year ago in the past year i'll think about it in the past year you got married you took over dc you you uh you bought a house uh in again i won't say it yeah Colorado You've been transitioned back and forth to L.A. and... Atlanta. Yeah, so how you feeling? I'm just trying to think of something I've learned about myself in the past year. Do you miss seeing your friends so as frequently as we always used to hang? Obviously, you can't because...

Yeah, I miss seeing my friends as often as I did, yeah. Good answer. Thanks, dude. Nick, Nico P, you do such an amazing job of weaving humor and emotion into your films. Who helped influence that for you?

Or was it just like something you just? I look to a lot of different, you know, filmmakers and storytellers that I like. But, you know, I go back to Preston Sturges, who was, you know, great comedy filmmaker, you know, from the, you know, the 40s, mostly. And 50s and who created just these really, you know, wonderful, beautiful, emotional and hilarious stories like Sullivan's Travels.

Yeah. You know, so, you know, but yeah, I think that there's that, you know, there's Superman, there's, the Star Wars films had that. Raj, tell me what you miss most about your life prior to finding success in the film industry. One of the weird things for me is my success has been, you know, there's jumps, but it's been incredibly gradual yeah really gradual yeah so you know i started working professionally in my 20s making movies for trauma and to me that was as exciting as anything because all of a sudden i'm making a living making movies i remember going on the subway every day to the set of tromio and

juliet and going oh my god i can't believe they're spending three hundred and fifty thousand making this movie that seemed to be an astronomical sum so everything's been pretty gradual you know and and and and i've been in the film industry for you know my adult life for the most part uh and was working professionally as a musician before that yeah so it has happened like you know for instance i always talk about it but like on on smallville tom welling had overnight success really just that's right i i never had that you never had that i was like doing uh independent or a short or whatever i had elements of it sure you know i mean i remember that you know the morning that uh scooby do opened up lorenzo de bonifatura called me at five 30 on saturday

morning and said the movie made 18 million dollars yesterday that was an enormous sum and i knew at that moment that my career as a screenwriter was sort of set so it was huge you know same thing with guardians when the first guardians opened up and you know i'm getting a call on friday night saying that you know the movie was supposed to make 60 and the movie and or no i think the movie was supposed to make like 45 or something i can't remember what a minute 97 i think opening weekend so it was like instantly i knew shit i'm a made man as a director like that was huge so uh you know i have had those huge those huge moments yeah you know what's great about uh being friends with someone who has you know a lot of money in power um when you took me to that restaurant uh the uh michelin

what was it i don't know what you're talking yeah for the bachelor party oh yeah yeah yeah we went to uh yeah i never would have ever i never really have good meals as it is the 13 course and i just was like rooker and i were looking at each other while we're eating going the hell man. This great. What is this? I don't know. Fuck it. I'm eating it. Yeah. We didn't care what it was. We just kept eating it. Rooker and I have eaten it a lot of nice restaurants together. Well, that one was holy shit. For me, I'm talking for me. Rooker and I went to Paris together. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, you're telling me. Yeah. We went on a romantic trip to Paris and just went every night we went to another, you know, three Michelin Star restaurant. We had incredibly great meals.

The funniest part was the first night. We went to like a place that was really delicious but not too expensive and I paid and the next night we went to the next place and Rooker's like, I'll take this one and it was 3,000. Did he mention it? He didn't. He didn't say like, oh man, maybe you want to chip in this one. He's like, he's like, yeah. That's what I got paid for Guardians one.

Last question, Jessica B, when was the last time you said no and felt good about it? Felt no and said no. That's a really interesting question. I mean, I mean, I think that the worst thing about being a studio person is I didn't know the amount of, I never really considered the amount of people we were going to need to say no to. No, we're not picking up your show or no, we're not going to, you know, whatever. Like, it is the freaking worst. And it's not a big part of my job, actually. But it's the, it's the worst.

Yeah. You know, because it's always been much more about me. I've always, as a director, I've always had to hire people. And, you know, I feel like I've said yes to a lot of people. I guess I have to say no, because people audition and they don't get the gig. Yeah. But I guess I just always focus more on the yeses than on the nose. Right.

And I feel the nose more in my gut now. Yeah. That makes sense. so but i say no every day and i feel good about it you know surprised you didn't say no to this podcast yeah i said no lots of times you did you did yeah i'm grateful that you came over it's the only podcast i'm doing is it true yes thank you i'm doing it because we're friends did you enjoy this no okay yeah last question uh i said that four times um no we're really almost done we started a little late but you got to get out of here lastly about your your dad i loved jibby senior

he was the best uh he just had such a presence every one of your friends i mean i would text him yeah i loved him i know he passed and i know that the family's going out to ireland to um scatter his ashes yeah when are you doing that i'm doing that on monday are you really yeah it's happening that soon yeah are you are you expecting a pretty emotional journey no family i don't know listen my dad want me to scatters ashes so i'm going to Ireland to scatter his ashes. We've had the funeral. I cry all the time about my dad. It's not like I don't

cry about my dad. Of course. I cry about my dad once a week at least. You know, cry about my dog. Cried about my dog this morning. I was telling my, the person cutting my hair about my dog Wesley and how he passed away. The best. So, just don't do it like Big Lobowski.

Don't do what by? Remember the ashes and Big Lobosky all over his face. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So no, no. So we're going to you know the county you know you know our home how many people how many family members all the kids so it's it's you know six kids and then a lot of the significant others are going so you know we're all married so there's i don't know maybe four four of the significant others are going nice maybe a couple that yeah some of the nephews and nieces are going too i think awesome this has been

awesome really i love having you i love it's like the most i bet well i came over your house a while ago and we talked but this is like one-on-one yeah and i want to take as much as i could with me yeah yeah so I love it. I mean, listen, it's always fun being here. It's always very natural. Yeah, it is. All right. Okay, buddy. I love you. Thanks, man. Bye. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece french toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more.

Limited time only at participating Wendy's taxes extra. I love that interview. And what's great is we didn't, you know, a lot of times you have to cut out a lot of stuff. You're talking to a studio head. you know, he wasn't like that. He's like, yeah, it's great. Let's do it. Bobb says we're cool. They're like, we'd like to hear it first. And, you know, we didn't change anything. It was, it was easy, fun. It just, again, felt like two guys, two buddies having a conversation. It wasn't hard for me at all. What do you think? No, I can tell you guys

have a history. And it's, it's got to be weird to watch, like, especially like, just to be in your 20s in L.A. and then just to watch everyone's careers go and then to watch some people like skyrocket and some people just plateau and then some people go the opposite direction. It's got to be weird. You insinuating my career is going nowhere.

You skyrocketed. You know, James Gunn is just plateaued. No, he has plateaued. He's just You know what? I was thinking about this. I knew a lot of people on the way up or the way down or you got your career goes up and down. Of course. you just can't keep going up people have lulls people have but it's the perseverance it's the

you know an adversity hits you like we talk in the podcast about all the shit that went down and you find your real friends that are there for you and still love you and that's when you really find happiness you know when you can say hey i i am i made a mistake and i did and you still have people there to support and love you it's that that's it's a it's a good thing it's a good feeling um i've had that in my life you know where I just really, for lack of a better word, hit a wall and went to a place to help myself and get my head clear. And so it was, it was, it's good. It's good to see.

And I've been around, I'm not that old, but I am old now, older. I look a little younger than I am. Let's be honest. That's true. That's good. Thank you. It's, it's lack of work. But, you know, I remember seeing Bradley Cooper at a bar.

talking to him and hanging out with him and he was going through a dark time on that show that he was on back in the 2000s it wasn't angel Dark Angel it was it was the one with Jennifer Garner Alias alias and

then look at his career it just couldn't have gotten bigger and then I remember seeing Chris Pratt at a party and hanging out with him and just a lovable guy and hasn't changed a bit and now blockbuster movie star and it's nice to see good things happen to good people um i've certainly hung out with people

that have skyrocketed that i'm like could have happened to a better person you know and then you see a lot of actors that are way better than me and a lot of other actors and they just can't seem to find their way or get that lucky break and uh but it's the work you got to put the work in and it's not going to just happen it's not with the old days or somebody sees a good looking guy and go, hey, you don't want you to be in this lead role in my movie. It just doesn't happen and people wait for that. I think people still think that's going to happen. You've got to go out there, man. You've got to knock on every door. You've got to look like an asshole. You've got to fail and fail and build some integrity and I'm boring myself.

Here we go. Thank you, James. Thanks everybody for listening. Please subscribe, write a review. It helps the show. Follow us on our handles. And here are the top tier patrons. Patreon.com slash inside of you. These folks do wonders for my career and the podcast. You guys support the podcast. There's a lot of perks. I send boxes every couple months and to the top tiers.

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I had to kick you out of the, I didn't kick you out, but the baby was crying in the Smallville Nights. And, you know, the people, we just couldn't have a baby crying the whole time. so she was a good support and uh but i hooked her up with some extra pictures at the table and

signed them and you know and i told them next time you guys come to us uh smallville nights it's on me it's on me and tom and uh also at that philly con ryan by the way i forgot i forgot to bring the cards we give these keepsakes and it's the first time i just i don't know i forgot and so that's why we gave like 15 or more prizes at the end instead of like four or five but some people i think were disappointed that they didn't get the keepsake, you know, that they were supposed to get everyone. And I just, I didn't know what to do. So if you're upset, come see me at a table at a con. I'll make it up to you some way. Believe me, I will. I apologize for that. Shit happens. So leave me alone. Corey, Heather L. Angel F, Mel, S. Carolyn R. Christine S. Eric H. Shinar,

Andrew M. Tim L. Oracle. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. J. J. J. M., Luna Mike F. Stone H. Brian L. Aaron R. Kendall L. Meredith I. Caracy. Jessica B. Kyle F. Marisol P.E. Estevan G. K. Brian A. Ashley. Ashley F. Marion Louise L. Romeo B. Veronica Q. Frank B. Gen T. Nikki. L. I love you. And thank you. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Thanks for listening. I hope you really enjoyed this podcast. California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Taylor. Ryan, how you doing? People miss. They like you. You have to come to a con with me someday. Did you get me a plane ticket? Yeah, I'll pay for you to come out. You just hang out with me. Great. You can just experience it. Yeah. Some place that's close. All right, guys, take care and be good to yourself. I'll see you next week.

Hi, I'm Joe Sol C. Hi, host of the Stackin' Benjamins podcast today. We're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice.

Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here.

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