Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - JAMES MARSTERS: Path to Self Acceptance, His Darkest Day on Buffy & His Dragon Ball Apology

Episode Date: September 3, 2024

James Marsters (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Schmactors) joins us again this week to share gratitude for his tenure as an actor along with his path to self acceptance after realizing how empty the pursuit of external validation can be. James also talks about the misinterpretation that got him kicked out of Juilliard, his darkest day on set while filming Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and his star struck geek out moment with the one and only Leonard Nimoy! Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You know, Baum is the right way to say it. Yeah. Good for your robot. Yeah, the robot is calling you a Bown. Wow. So there you go. Wow. I kind of like it.

I think it's kind of neat. Yeah. Great episode today. James Marzder's is in the house. And if you're here for James and you're a big fan, and you like this podcast, you like this interview, please give it a chance. Please listen to other people and listen to other interviews. I think you'll learn a lot. We talk about adversity and life and death and a lot of mental health stuff.

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It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. All right, Mr. Marsders. First of all, do people get you confused with James Marsen? All the time. Don't you hate it? Like, guys, I loved you an X-Men. I'm like, that was not me.

I like James Marsen, though. Yeah, he's good. Yeah, he's fine. But you wish he didn't have a name like James Mars. He's better looking, and he's been a bigger project. Oh, he's better looking than all of us. Oh, son of a bitch. Son of a bitch.

You know, West World. That's when I really lost it. Yeah, he was really good at it. I thought that because I say I'm having James Marsers on the podcast. Like, oh, dude, he's great on that new. And I go, yeah, he's great, but he's not that. He's not James Marsden. James Marsden's a lot younger than us, I think.

He's probably 40s, early 40s. Probably, or it's just that pretty. Hey, fuck you, James Marsden, for being so handsome. Some of a bitch. Yeah, I consider changing my name when I came down to Hollywood because Marsters, I was told sounds like mouse turds. And so I thought, you know, maybe you want to take a look at that yet. I never thought mouse turds.

Now you will. But what if it was James Wesley? That's what I thought. That's a great name, James Wesley. I thought so good. But you've also changed your name or use pseudonyms for like voiceover work, like Dragon Ball. Then you like use a different name? You're going to get me in trouble.

Will I? Yeah. Why is I get you in trouble? Well, because I changed my name. I just didn't want any credit on Dragon Ball because I wanted it just to be known to people at conventions to like real Dragon Ball. fans that I meet at conventions because I was getting people were coming up in my line going what happened with that film I was in this really uh not a good live action dragon ball movie called dragon ball evolution and it wasn't good oh boy was it not good it was he experienced at least good

bad offensively bad really oh my god I never heard him it thank god that's the one good thing about the movie is and not a lot of people saw it and if anyone's watching and everyone is don't go see that film. Does the director get mad when you say that? Well, he was a good guy, and he did a lot of good movies, but that was not one of them. I think he knows it, too. I think we all know it. It's impossible not that.

Did you have to promote it when it came out? Oh, yeah. Oh, we went all over the world. We went to, oh, my God, we went to Japan, and they were very quiet. You know, there was like 5,000 people watching the movie, and there was like very polite applause, and I was like, well, they weren't very excited about us. Because I was still in denial. Maybe this is a good film.

Oh, so yeah, in the beginning, you're like, oh, wait, maybe I just, I'm just too close to it. Exactly. And then you realize quickly, what's that feeling like when there's 5,000 people in an audience and they're not responding the way you were hoping? What does it do to you? Well, the first thing that I thought is, well, how rude? Japanese people were supposed to be so polite. What are they doing?

Or, you know, you go like, maybe it's cultural, maybe silence is good in Japan, but it wasn't silence. It wasn't like respectful silence. it was more like oh well now we get to leave you know and and it was like this slow dawning uh sinking feeling that that it was just really horrible i remember i went to the the american uh opening night and my son was like i don't know 12 years old at this time so it was the perfect age for this for dragon ball and we had been watching the anime together for years and uh and he and my daughter and i were all going out to see the film together on opening night. And he's running ahead of us. And I'm

like, wait for us, son, wait for us. And he leaves us into the theater. And it's packed. And it's all teenage boys and their younger brothers, their tween brothers. And it smells like body odor and hot dogs. And it's wonderful. I'm like, it's a hit. It's a hit. And we sit down. And something, this voice goes off inside me. And I think this is too good to be true. And I turn to the kid next to me. And I go, hey, excuse me, man, is this dragon ball? And he goes, what? And I go, is this Dragon Ball evolution. He's like, no, man, this is fast and furious. Jesus, Dragon Ball. You were in the wrong theater? Yeah. So I get up and I, and, and I'm just thinking to my mind, oh, please, just let there be a quarter of a house in, in the correct theater. Let there be at least

a quarter of a house because I'm on three picture deal and I, and I have big plans for the rest of the movies in this. And we get into the actual theater and there was four people, five people, including the three of us on opening night. Were you horrified? I was horrified. I was, I'm a dad, and I'm showing off for my kids. Did your kid like it? Yeah.

He did. Yeah. He was 12, you know, and his dad was in, he was playing piccolo, you know, so that was good. But, yeah, the best thing is, if people haven't seen it, I hope that that stays that way. You know, we've all done that. Go ahead, the point. The point is that I was tired of catching guff at, at conventions for this. film and so when i got a chance to be on dragon ball super i was like oh okay let's do this little trick

and let's let's put a fake name so that i can tell people oh just for conventions i'm actually you know zamasu in dragon ball super and just for you it's an apology for that film yeah wow did it work yeah yeah you know it's like secret knowledge now well now of course everyone knows because right because i just said it no before that they've known that they've known that Um, I, look, we've all done movies that we're not proud of. We've all done them. I have, I did a movie, uh, I've talked about this called rave Macbeth. And it was in a rave and I was Macbath. And you know what? At the halfway point, the Germans decided to do a screening of it for everyone, but they put music over and Pink Floyd. It's a very sort of, uh, I don't know, it's, it's a very underground kind of cool. weird film and at the halfway point my friends were there they came and visited the set and they were all like this is dude this is going to make you a star this is unbelievable this looks the look of it and then at the end of the movie about a month later the director called me god rest of soul he

passed away claus klaus nosel i think his name was class says michael how are you doing i'm like good claus what's going on he goes well i don't have good news I go, well, what was the news? He goes, we lost the sound. I go, where? Which scene? He goes, it's the entire movie. I go, what?

What? It was just unusable. The sound, something happened. We have to do ADR. We have to loop the entire film. Every actor, every character. And I go, my heart sank. And I go, I'm not, I can't do this.

And I had to go into a studio for five straight days as the lead for seven, eight hours a day and loop all my stuff to try and no matter what you do people know and i saw it and it was you know i had these guttural screams and like you try to recreate that and it's a d r and it's over that it just isn't there there are people who are good at a d r i'm good i'm not one of them i'm okay i feel like what I'm trying to do when I'm filming is to give myself a real experience that the camera can document. Now, I don't always do that. Oftentimes, I'm kind of posing, trying to look cool. But what I'm trying to do is just forget all of that and just experience something with another actor and not be aware of what's happening. And then something real happens and the camera can actually

get what it's hungry for, which is something real to photograph. And how do you recreate that? when you're in a booth you can create it's okay if it's just intermittent or little bits but when you're doing every moment every dial every oh yeah i can't oh my god i would have no idea how to do that it was an abomination and i didn't go to the premiere i said i'm not i saw saw it and i said i'm not going and uh i didn't and um yeah it just it sucked because i thought it would it could have been a lot better it was just so different at the time and it just ruined the movie and i remember one i directed it's gonna look like a 70s porn film and i also directed a movie called back in the day is this raunchy comedy that i love and but i remember you know they a lot of distributors they have

you know in your deal they say we're going to release it in 20 or 25 or 50 screens across the country yeah you know that was part of our deal so they had to release it so they they put it in like these really whatever theaters you know around you know so my dad It was like my sister, Ava, he goes, Dave and I went and saw your movie. There was nobody in the theater. It was just us. And I go, yeah, it's, yeah, that's all he said to me. He didn't say anything else.

I was like, all right, how's your day? It's par for the course. Thanks, dad. Look, you've done a lot of things you're proud of, right? You know, my parents never saw anything that I did. Nothing. Are your parents still with us? No, that's why I can diss them.

Were you not close with your parents? Yeah, I was close, but they, I realized, you know, when I, the kinds of characters I'm playing, I wouldn't want to watch my son do the kind of things that I did on film. Why? And I wouldn't want to watch my dad do those kind of things. Because they're either violently evil or sexual. Right. And you don't, you don't want to watch your dad.

So you told them not to watch anything? No, no. I was like, have you seen it? They're like, no, get around to it sometime. And they've never seen, they never saw your work. No, I used to, I kind of forced my son to watch. of it and i think he was very politely sat through it but i don't think he was interested like what i would just show him the fight scenes i would just say you know and finally he was i what was the

role i got i was i was doing torchwood for the bbc yeah i was like i was like that's like the doctor who spin on yeah yeah yeah and i'm like this is the best role man i've got a samurai sword i've got two guns these oozies i've got i've got this watch that sends me through time and he's like dad do you win he was like he was like 13 years old do you win and i'm like What are you talking about? He goes, you always get in a fight at the end of the thing. And you always lose the fight. Or do you win or lose the fight?

I was like, I lose. I'm not the hero. Oh. It's like, come on. Next. I just still can't. He doesn't want to see his dad lose. No kid wants to see that.

They just want to see their dad. No, they want to see their dad win. So you never won? Did I ever win a fight? Your son never looked at you can go, you won, dad. I did win a fight on Angel. I kicked Angel's ass on his own show. That was great.

And your son liked that? Yes. Okay. Yeah. So you won? Yeah, I got one once. Yeah. But your parents never saw any of your work really.

No. Did that upset you? Yes. But now I understand. At the time, at the time, it did upset me. Well, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Did they tell you why?

No. No. I had to guess. So that's very hurtful. Well, really well. well it's like it hurts me too in my i'd rather you know it's funny i don't even tell my dad when i'm really in anything anymore yeah because i i don't want to set myself up for a disaster i don't want to set myself up for like oh yeah we saw that that's that i do it for different reasons yeah yeah

like i don't want to be crushed but for you i mean did they ever see you perform live like in a stage point okay and they like do they say they commend you yeah yeah more or less you're still kind of thinking about this you're starting i had not a great childhood so like the fact that they didn't watch that stuff i wasn't surprised if i put but you say you like your parents but now you're saying you had and i had a great childhood i didn't say i like my parents oh so you didn't like i like my dad you liked your dad you didn't like your mom my mom was not a healthy person it wasn't the best experience as a child? Not really, no.

And you kind of let it go and have you dealt with this stuff? Yeah. Do you go to therapy? I did. Buffy sent me into therapy, actually. Buffy crushed me. And so... Why?

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kicks me through a wall and like like it it's a problematic scene for a lot of people who like the show. And it's the darkest professional day of my life. The thing is, is that one of the reasons that the Buffy writing was so good was that they were being asked, the writers were being asked to come up with their worst day, the day that they don't talk about, their dark secret, the one that keeps them up at night, when they really hurt somebody or when they really got hurt or made a big mistake of some kind. And then slap metaphoric fangs on top of that dark secret and tell everybody about it. So it's not really, it's not a show with a bunch of writers telling other people

how to live their lives. Like, this is the moral of the story. This is, it's just a bunch of human beings saying, hey, man, this hurt earlier in my life. This was a sucky time in my life. Does anybody else have that experience? Yeah. And I think that's why it resonates. And this, this was one of the women writers, actually, had coming up with this idea.

because in college she had gotten broken up with and she went to her ex's place and thought that if they made love one more time everything would be fixed and she kind of forced herself and he had to physically remove her from the premises and that was just like one of the most painful memories of that time of her life

and they thought that since Buffy was a superhero that they could flip the sexes since Buffy could defend herself very very easily from this They thought that they could have a man do it to a woman, and it would be the same thing, I think. And I went to them and I said, you know, guys, we're providing a vicarious experience for the audience. That's storytelling in general. We tempt the audience behind the eyes of the lead so that each the audience can have that journey.

So hopefully people who are watching Buffy while they're watching it, they are Buffy. That's how the thing works. If I'm watching a James Bond film, I'm like, oh, they're shooting at me. Oh, I better duck. Oh, I have a gun. Oh, I'm great with a gun. I'm going to kick his ass. You know, like, that's how it works.

And so I was saying, you know, everyone who's watching Buffy is Buffy and they're not superhero. So I'm doing this to every member of the audience. And they're going to have a very different reaction. And this is Spike? Yeah. You didn't want to do it. No.

Like, I don't even, I don't, like, sexual predation scenes, anything that has that to do with it, I don't audition for those things. If it's, if there's a movie with that kind of material. I don't go to see the movie. If it pops up on television, I've got to turn the television off before I break it. I have a very visceral reaction of that stuff.

And I was contracted to do this. I couldn't say no. And so I remember making my entrance for the first line of the scene. And I have an injury on my neck from doing too many stunts. And sometimes it pops off and it'll just, it'll pop.

And I'm just like, you know, and I, like my tongue goes back on my mouth and my, what do they call that? It's not stinosis. Yeah, it's something. It's like a pulled nerve or something. Yeah. And it popped off like a gunshot. And I went like that and I just collapsed to the floor. I was like, hello, Buffy, crack.

Just down. Was everybody just freaking out? Yeah, they all surround me. Are you okay? You know, I'm like, I guess I'm kind of tense right now, you know. and and we we got the scene in the can and it was it was hell it was i was i was in the personal hell or you also in personal hell not only because you had to do it but because the repercussions of doing that would would um sort of you make people dislike your character i wasn't thinking

of that i was just i was just having to do that to sarah you know i was just having to live through that reality. That's the film acting is that you make it real for yourself. That's the whole point if it's going to work. Right. And if the scenes, because you don't want to film a scene like that and then have it suck on top of having to do it.

So you want it to actually be good. So I was really releasing into the, you know, oh God. Like it's still, I feel it's pain. Yeah. And you went to therapy because of that. Yeah. Like I was, I was like doing a take and then going in the corner of the set and going

into the fetal position on the cement. Oh my God. Did Sarah come up to you and say, you're okay? Yeah, they were all worried. You know, they're like, be worried. I'm not okay. You're like, I don't like doing this. Yeah, yeah.

So you're doing something against your will. Yeah, very much. So the good thing is that I found a really good therapist. And in putting me back together from that, got into all the other stuff, as their good therapists will do. Right. And I was very painful and very destabilizing,

but I came out of it, a much happier person right so it's all good i mean it all led me to being pretty that's amazing how a scene can affect you a moment on a on screen that's not real that you have this visceral feeling and just um disdain for that so obviously all the disdain for that sort of behavior but for to even play a character like that to play it you know um yeah to this day there's a little tiny sunny dale in my mind and there's a little tiny spike and he's in love with a little tiny Buffy. To this day, it's still real.

Like, I've created a world in my mind. That's how you do it. That's the method, basically, of acting. You make a little playpen for yourself, and you put as much detail into that as you can so that you can just go play in that little box. And once it's constructed, it's there. What has changed in you over the years,

coming to Hollywood, going to Juilliard, going to studying theater, doing all this Shakespeare and all these things and having a band and being on a hit show and doing movies and all these things. That sort of feeling or passion or mentality during that time period, juxtaposed to now, to how you feel about all of it now and how you deal with things now. I think I was, I had to do this. I had to be successful. I had to prove myself. I had to and slowly that starts to go away a little bit or a lot and it also um what goes away is that sort of freeness of not being worried not being scared not just going and doing it and then

the older you get we think about things more and more and it hinders us from achieving our greatest achievements yeah and i just want to know your journey in terms of like who you or then, and now if you look at yourself as, I don't even know how old you are, probably my age, but you know what I mean? I'm 62. What? Yeah. Yeah.

You're 62? I'm 60. Well, maybe. I would have thought you were like 52. So old that I don't know how old I am. You're not old. I was born in 1962. I was born in 72.

I was 61 or 62. August 20th. You're going to be 62. I'm going to be 62. And I'm guessing September. August. Very good. Well, that was close.

Very close. Yeah. August 14th. Why did you pick September? 14th? It's amazing. 20th. Damn, moving close.

Long again. I know. But go ahead. So you kind of get what I'm asking. I just forgot what you were asking. No. I was driven like you, like a lot of people who come down with some ability and some experience. And I think what's changed is that I've come to realize that anything external is not going to make me happy.

it can make me pleased, it can make me comfortable, it can make me self-satisfied, but that's different than happiness and I find happiness in coming into contact with other people. Like today, I'm happy because I'm seeing my friends. Interactions, it's moments. Yeah, yeah. And most of, most of the way, the best way that I found to come in contact with other people is to help them or to allow them to help me. And it's easier for me to help people than allow myself to be helped when I'm working on it. But that works really well, actually. And like if I buy something, like I'm talking about external things because I thought that external, I thought that external success professionally would make me happy. Yeah. Didn't. But just the analogy being like

something external, like something buying something. So if I buy a toy, it might be, make me happy, well, not happy. Pleased, entertained. Momentarily. Maybe six hours. Yeah. You know, I could buy a car, probably six weeks. I'd get out of it like, well, I'm driving my new car. Yeah. And after six weeks, I'm like, yeah, I got to get to the grocery store. I could buy a house and I'll bet you six months into living in that house. It would just fade into the background of normalcy and I would be worrying about something. It doesn't last. And so I guess that's the main thing is that I've learned how to, or I'm starting to accept myself, and I'm starting to learn that I just need people. Why do we start so late? Why do we, why does it take so long to

figure out what's important? For me, I don't know. I think other people might get to that earlier, but I think that I don't know. I'm so envious of like certain people that have figured it out or at least my perception is that they figure it out or just that they figured out more than I have at this moment. I think it takes, like self-acceptance, I think, I think it's normal that someone, it takes until middle age to get there. I think, I think I hear that from a lot of people. I think, I think that we're trained in this culture to think that we can buy our happiness. I think we're told that all the time with commercials. So it's not surprising that it's taking me this long to be like hey wait a minute commercials are lying actually like i can't buy a car

and get a good wife that doesn't really work that way does it you know damn really that sucks yeah i i feel the same way um you know i buy things i have a lot of posters and things and you know they're exciting for six hours like you say or and and i and i really like things i like you know i don't go out and i'm not a materialistic person where i have to get the fanciest things. I'm more like, I'm still that dude. I'm still that guy in college. And you have a great place, man. And I love it. I love your house. It's a wonderful place and it makes me feel welcome. I have the same thing. Like I have a house where when I go into it, I feel welcomed. I feel like I'm kind of giving myself some love. And I spent some time decorating. I didn't spend a

whole lot of money on it. Can you at least sometimes take a step back? You don't have to do it often because it'd probably be weird, but sort of look from the outside in and say, hey, you've had a great career. You made a lot of money. You have a lot of fans. This is great. Be proud of yourself. I am just amazed by the whole roller coaster of my life, the whole thing. Because the years before I came to Los Angeles was real poverty because I was a theater actor. And I was about as successful as anybody else, but you're still making $3.75 to $500 a week. I mean, this is a while. They're probably making a little more now, but not a whole lot. So like 15 years, I didn't have a dentist, you know, no health insurance at all. So I was one injury away from homelessness

for 15 years, you know, like that's pretty intense. But you don't think about it. I do. You did think about it? When I look back in my life, I'm like, wow, what a roller coaster. I mean, did you think about it then as much as you do now? second. Really? And I didn't really realize it until I got health insurance and it went away. It was like this background tension. I was just like, I'm relaxed. Why am I so relaxed? Oh, that's why. Right. Yeah. And I'm not thinking, I have enough in the bank that I, that I can pay rent. I don't have to worry about. You pay rent on the first and then you start working trying to scrounge it together. And then the first comes and you don't have it. And you're like, I think we got a week. I think we got over three or four days to get it

together and you're scrounging more. Like my first wife and I, there was a period where we ate oatmeal for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And we got sick of that. We'd switch over to cream of wheat, breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And we got sick of that, we'd go back to oatmeal. We have no money at all. Yeah. Yeah. And so, so, so my life has just been this incredible twisting, turning. Can you deal with, obviously, in the past, when you're the roller coaster, when you're going down, whether it's a divorce or whatever it is, or whatever the moment on Buffy and going to therapy, do you, did you deal with it a lot differently than you do now? Very different. Did you use alcohol then? Did you use anything external, yeah, alcohol, just to disappear, to be numb?

Yeah. Yeah. And do you do that anymore? No, no, I had to clean up my act, man. I had to, I, I remember telling my father I was helping him, he had Parkinson's. So for 10 years, I was helping him financially a lot. And then a lot I would go and make sure he was okay and make sure the house was okay and everything. And his doctor was telling me, you know, you got to get him off sugar. And I was telling him, dad, we can all have good health outcomes. But as we get older, the margin for error gets a lot less. So we got to make really smart choices. and for you right now you just got to quit sugar and he never could but but what it did for me was I was like you know I should take my own advice yeah and I should start cleaning up my axe so at this point I don't eat sugar I don't drink I don't smoke I don't do you think that cutting out sugar is honestly do you think it made a world a difference in your life phenomenal yeah just just how red how do you feel what did how differently do you feel um I just I feel I just I feel younger. I feel more energetic.

You don't get tired as much? At all. Yeah. You have pains, less pains? Yeah. Do you think it has to do with inflammation and like pains and aches? Sugar is an inflammatory. So I shouldn't drink Coke zeroes. Well, they taste like crap. I love the way. It's crisp and refreshing. Dude. The first sip of a Coke to me is just like, I'm in ecstasy. Get a soda stream, dude. I know, but I don't, I don't drink it a lot, but boy. You could,

I have a soda stream. I'm addicted to popcorn and soda. Me too, but I make my own. I make my own, too. I have grapefruit soda, and then I have cherry soda, and then I have lemon lime soda, and I'm like, I have a little... But they're without sugar? Soda bar. Yeah, no, no, no sugar at all.

But how do you make those? Are you just buy... You just, like, filter your water and put it in this little, the soda stream thing, and you have little, you know, canister's for it. And you can carbonate it, like, I carbonate mine, like it punches you in the face. Can you carbonate cranberry juice? I have never tried. You could try. Why not?

You know what? Can? You got a soda stream you can afford to break the thing. You know what I wanted to ask you? I don't remember us talking too much about it, but I know you went to Juilliard for two years. Who was going to Juilliard with you? Any famous people while you were there?

Ving Reams was there? Wow. I didn't know he went to. Yeah. He went to Juilliard? Yeah. You never would have thought he went to Juilliard. Oh, bees.

I remember. We have the meats. He went. He went. he was all it was mission impossible did he graduate oh yeah oh yeah i did you saw him perform you acted with him he was incredible so good i remember i went up to his place in harlem to watch the the final episode of um mash because i didn't have a television show and him michael beach who's also a very uh talented and a successful actor they were roommates up in harlem and uh it got over

like at 11 or 12 o'clock at night for some reason and i was like and i said to mike okay, I'm going to walk into the subway. And they turned and they were like, why? And they said, and I was like, well, it's Harlem, dude. It's midnight. I'm not saying I'm a white boy. And they were just like, oh, my God. And Ving was like, okay, dude, I'm going to help you.

I'm going to show you my neighborhood. We're going to take a walk before we take you to the subway. I'm going to walk you around my neighborhood. And don't worry, we're going to follow you like half a block behind so that if anything happens to you, you'll be safe. don't worry but you will find that it's a really nice neighborhood and you're totally fine okay and they did it and I walked around for 45 minutes of Harlem at midnight and I was totally fine and it was amazing and then they got me to the subway did you you haven't talked to him

since uh since school I don't think so if you saw him would it be like hey probably yeah I'm just trying to think there was a we went back there was a 50th anniversary for Juilliard He might have been there, but I don't think I saw him. And who else was there? What's the name of that? What's the woman in? Jessica Chastain. Mate, no.

What's the Ryan Reynolds superhero thing? Marina Baccarin? Yeah. Marina Bacru's the wife. The girlfriend. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's wonderful. Yeah, and she was also in the Jawswee.

She was in my movie. I didn't know she was peculiar, though. Yeah, she's incredible. I love Morena background. She's just a wonderful person. Yeah. But you got kicked out after two years. Oh, yeah.

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show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them. from my show. Oh, hi, buddy. Who's the best you are? I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us.

Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. They hated me. Why? the first play that we did was called the discovery play and we were doing troilus and cressida which is not one of shakespeare's better plays it's one of his worst plays then why do it good question and we were getting we were getting no direction we were getting marian selde's uh who's one of the

best broadway actors she's gone now but she was one of the best broadway actors alive she was an amazing actor and as good as she was as an actor she was that bad as a director she was freaking horrible, giving us nothing. She just keep saying, oh, my birds, keep experimenting. You're beautiful. You're wonderful. And I'm watching this happen. And we are three days away from opening. And we're not getting a real audience. It's just the teachers coming in to see us, you know, and that's it. But I feel a responsibility to the audience because it's been drilled into me that the human beings are going to spend three hours of their lives with you. You better not waste their time. This has been just ingrained in me. And I'd just come from a

an apprenticeship at a really good theater in California called the Pacific Conservatory, the Performing Arts. And professional actors, some of the best West Coast actors, it was voted the third best West Coast theater. And, you know, really good stuff. And I'm used to that. And so we're doing this play. And it's just got awful. And I'm like, I'm a Juilliard. This should be one of the best plays I've ever done in my life. Like, what is going on? And I thought, well, there's something happening that I'm not understanding. Well, maybe it's the title. It's called the discovery play.

I'll ask why it's called the discovery play. And I asked the staff why it's called the discovery play. It's no one knew. And I was like, okay, they know. They're not telling me. This is ridiculous. And I thought, okay, I have to figure it out. Something's going on.

Maybe they're setting you up to fail. I don't know. And so I thought maybe it's not our discovery. I was thinking of this, like we were supposed to discover something. maybe it's actually the staff is going to discover who we are. And maybe the whole point is left to our own devices that they're going to discover, are we the kind of classes wanted to tell a story, or are we just going to jerk around if they let us?

And I was like, well, they got me. So I stood up three days before opening, and I said, this is the biggest piece of crap I have ever been in. We are horrible. In front of everybody. Yeah. We have got to tell this story. We've got to make choice.

we have got to remember that people are going to spend their lives three hours with us. And it is a crime to waste that time. So we have got to give some form to this thing. What they say? Mr. Mastres. Oh, my God. I was wrong about the old discovery play thing. That was not what was going on.

What was going on, I think, is that because they weren't having a real audience, they couldn't get real directors to come do this. And so they were just getting anyone they could to direct and they just got Marion to do it. And she just, frankly, doesn't not a very good director. And it was awful. It was just terrible. But I got, they thought of me as this opinionated, uh, cocky, uh, actor that no one that didn't. So they, they just, they rode me for two years and then kicked me out.

Rode you, like just were hard on you. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I got a, were you upset when they kicked you out? Oh, massively. Yeah. I almost jumped off the building. I went up there and almost threw myself off the roof. You were that upset?

Really? Who told you? You remember the... Well, they said you're not an actor. You have no instinct for acting and you need to quit before you got bitter and you're horrible. That's what they said? Yeah, yeah. They told you that you're awful.

Oh, yeah, in no uncertain terms. How many people told you this in the... Well, I was awful. The thing that happened was is that they were, because they were riding me, theater had always been my safe space. It was always the place that I could go to because my family was not healthy, so I could go to theater and have a harmonious...

Well, it was really about being with a group of people that were working together to make something to give a gift to the audience. And that was kind of an alternate family for me. So because in Juilliard, it was just hammering me the whole time. I just collapsed creatively. And so the best acting I did at Juilliard was my was the the monologue i did to get in how many times you auditioned just one you gave one monologue

and what monologue was that oh i forget was it shakespeare it was one shakespeare and one modern i've no idea but you killed it obviously i guess i were you surprised you got in or did you no no i uh in high school i i i they interviewed me for the school paper and i said i want to My plan is to go to the Pacific Conservatives Performing Arts and then go to Juilliard. That was what I was, that's what I thought I should do. And so when it, when it happened that way, I was like, yeah, okay. I think, I think the plan's working. All right.

So you're 60 years old now, which is around 60. Yeah. You've had a roller coaster of a life, a lot of great moments. I mean, I hate to say, are you happy? but are you somewhat content? Are you more relaxed now? Are you, do you still stress a lot? No. I am, if anything, I feel guilty that I have it so good. Like, I don't know how, how does someone who decides to be an actor have two kids in college and be able to pay that? Very fortunate. If you make the decision to be an actor that,

deal is poverty. And you cannot expect to have kids and be able to provide well for them. I mean, like, if there are any actors out there that are doing this, hats off to you. But, but I don't know that I, I just, I don't understand. How did I get here? You know? And the answer, how did I get here is really one audition one day for Buffy the Vampire Slayer. That led to everything else, you know. But for that, I would have been just doing, recurring roles and guest stars like I was doing when I auditioned for Buffy and I would have been making, I'd be selling

cars. I think that too. I think if you look back, if you looked at me in high school, you would never think I would have done anything. I would have worked at Wesselman's grocery store. No. Or I would have been a DJ at the roller rink, mechanic at the, at the go cart track. I don't picture you as like

always this lovable maniac at the center of all attention. I was the shortest kid. I wasn't popular i was just like i was no one listened to me my family it was like i didn't exist and if i look back at that kid crying in his room or watching horror movies there's no way i would have bet on him no on my on my holy crap hand of god um and so when i look at that i look at this it's almost like I think in life it's like a car you know you have a car and it goes the battery dies yeah and you get jump started and you go again and there were times where I think I had a few of those jumpstarts that that kept me going just when I thought it you know it was here something

would happen fate whatever someone would say hey this and that would go in a direction and just when i thought i was going to give up so it was almost like it was destiny to do something whether it was to be um it just i i can't explain it yeah but um you found a way to be beautiful you found i guess i'm still figuring it all out i think i was so immature growing up and still immature now but i think um it's taking me so long to figure this out to really understand what life's about and I'm look I'm I'm still trying to get I think that's true with a lot of artists I think that we we often our childhood was not really great and we found a way whether that's acting or painting or or sculpture or whatever it is

music we find a way to be beautiful and powerful and you know what being around people who want you to be funny, powerful, uh, yourself. I mean, when I say powerful, I don't mean like socially powerful. No, but just like having some personal, um, uh, power. Some, I don't know. Just having empower empower empower. Empowerment. Yeah. You know, empowered. And but those people along the way, they give you that juice. They give you that jump start. And if you have a couple of those people in your life, it helps you get through life and hopefully be the best you can be. Yeah. and be successful, but also then surrounding yourself with those people, with those people who believe in you and you feel that will be there even if it all goes away. Because a lot of it

goes away. I had a trajectory at one time that, you know, this is, you're just going to keep, and I'm like, you know, and then it kind of, you know, plateaued. And it was like, okay, this is, and this is great. Yeah. And I work and I do my podcast and I write and I, and I, But it's, you know, there were people then where there was like at the height of Smallville and height, whatever, and they were there. And then when that kind of went away, they kind of latched on to the next person. But now you know how to, I know how to read people. I'm a really good judge of character. Maybe, you know, but maybe that's why I'm single. Tell me about your podcast. Tell me about your podcast. That was the best joke.

doing a podcast called Schmachters with Mark Devine and Jason DeFillopold. We do half hour. We do just Audible podcast because what we're doing now with all the lights and all the cameras and stuff, I'm like, you don't need it. We'll just do that. So Mark Devine is the funniest man I've ever met in my life. And I met him when I was taking myself very seriously. and I had lost my sense of humor. Parenthood did that to me.

They think you'd get more of a sense of humor with parenthood. You'd hope so. You'd hope so. But between the experiences of celebrity, which tempts me to take myself seriously, or did, you know, and then parenthood, which is not easy, and I wasn't perfect at it.

I had no sense of humor. I had lost it and then I meant Mark and I just I just started ripping off his jokes and I would tell his jokes back to him and he would laugh politely and I would have just I just adopted the character of Mark Devine and just tried that on and rediscovered my own sense of humor through that and he really saved me as far as that side of me you needed this didn't you really did yeah he was one of these people that that you talk about yeah he's that there's a big jump start in my life and um We became fast friends, and then he moved to Atlanta because his wife, he had had a son, and his wife wanted to be near her family to raise the kid. And he called me, he's like, James, I don't feel funny anymore. I'm doing parenthood, and it's hard, and I've lost my sense of humor, and I want to do a project with you. Because I miss you, and I miss talking with you, and I want to get back. And so we put together this idea where we just sit down and take questions from the house,

you know, from the audience, and we just expound. The basic premises are all actors self-entitled pricks or do they actually have any interesting ideas in their head? That's awesome. Yeah. And or is it a little bit of both maybe? Yeah. And, you know, when I was listening to you, I listened to one episode and it just, it felt so just raw.

It felt raw and like you were doing your thing. And I could tell there was so much enjoyment. And I think that's so important when you're doing a podcast that if people know that you're confident what you're doing and you're enjoying it and you have something to say, that, I mean, you've won. That's the thing. It's like when Mark and I get together, everyone's just like, we love you too. You know, like just when you guys are like bouncing off each other, it's just amazing. And so I knew that the magic is just Mark and I talking about anything, really, because you can tell we're having fun. We're enjoying ourselves. And it was just finding a format that would allow us to do that. How many episodes have you done? Done 10. Is it hard or just Zoom? Just Zoom. And then edit. Oh, it's great. Because I get to go into a podcast studio and I have like a little light in a professional microphone and I got a little coffee and I've got that little mince in case my tongue gets. dry and Mark is in his house you know and he's on his computer and you just shoot ideas like

hey let's talk about this today let's yeah we we we get the call-ins the call-ups yeah we have call-ups and then we're getting call-ups that's a new thing that we're getting in right but just you know questions off the people will ask us questions they'll go into schmachters.com by the way it's S-C-H-M- Actors. Like Schmachs. Like, yes, but it's, a lot of people think it's maybe S-H-H-M-A-S-M-A-S-M-A-C-T-R-S. Very good, I couldn't do that, yeah. So Schmachters.com, you can go in there and put questions in, and then we go through questions

and answer some of them on the show. And you usually, are there certain questions you won't answer, or you're like, no, no, there's just something you're looking for when people are. Like most of it, there's not much that we're like, oh, we can't talk about that, but there are some things that we think that we've got more mileage out of. It's kind of weird. We finally did a Buffy question. And then Mark just went off and interviewed me because he wanted to know the minutia minute to minute of auditioning for the role, getting the role, driving to the first, you know, like all the little tiny things. Did you love it? Yeah. Like, like I've talked a lot about Buffy, but he's an actor. And because he was on, he was on a lot of, a lot of, oh my God, I forget, a lot of really good stuff. Right. IMTB.M. Moss Devine.

So he knew really good questions to ask, and he got me to really remember things I hadn't thought about in years. And we did two shows off of one question. And people loved it. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's all this new stuff. Schmactors.

And they can listen anywhere, any platform? Yeah. Anywhere you get your problem. Who edits it? Jason. Jason does it. Really? Yeah, yeah.

I help him, but he does most of it. Really? Yeah. All right. This is called shit talking with James Marsters, not James Marston. Exactly. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime.

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Learn more at land rover.ca. Okay, these are questions. James Marsden doesn't have a podcast. Yes, true. Now he will. Now he will. will something different and it's not as interesting as mine yes thank you because he may be pretty oh does he have a podcast i have a brain um no i have no i don't think so probably not he has enough

ha ha he doesn't need to do this no leave us so long james don't do a podcast please please just come on get me break all right these are my top tier patrons um i love you patron dot com slash inside of you join patron today support the podcast we need you little lisa says favorite breakfast cereal as a kid When I was a kid, we made our own granola, and it was God awful. It was just, we were hippies. So, and we would always overdo it. So it was slightly burned. It was just horrible.

And then we were made to eat it. You had to eat it. Yeah, yeah. Like I said. And then with your first wife, you had to have oatmeal and cream of wheat and then back to oatmeal. Breakfast was never really good for you. No.

I don't eat it now. Well, there you go. You fast to like one or two. Yeah, breakfast. Yeah, two o'clock. have a little piece little spoon of peanut butter in the morning until about two o'clock that's it there you go sarah g is there a role you haven't played yet that you really want to play badly i missed my chance at hamlet that would be the one yeah because hamlet's young yeah that's the

whole point like hamlet you can play him in your 30s right yeah you had you would have to believably at least in stage be be able to be 18 and have that be believable so if you're 30 you probably Because Hamlet, like the whole point of Hamlet is like, to be or not to be. And that's basically a teenager turning to the audience and asking them directly, hey, guys, I'm thinking of killing myself. And I'm just asking you, why haven't you guys killed yourself? What is it that kept you from killing yourself? Because I'm looking at the world and it's really messed up.

And I kind of want to leave. So help me out. What kept you guys here? And when a teenager asks that question, it's a profound question. When a 40-year-old actor asks that question, you're like, oh, shut up. Yeah. You know, so you have, you have to be able to bring off. Could you recite Hamlet right now easily?

Yeah. And you hadn't never done it. No. And you could still recite it. Yeah. Can you recite many plays? Some, but not all. What's your favorite play of all time?

Macbeth. Macbath. Yeah. You did Macbeth. Oh, yeah. I did Macbeth. I played Ross. It's called The Evil, the most miraculous work of this good.

king which since my here remain in england i have seen him do how he solicit the aborn oh my god yeah yeah i still remember some of that is with shakespeare it's hard to forget it it is yeah because you're so focused on the meaning and like really like this is the best one i know this is the best and this is caliban from the tempest be not afeard the aisle is full of noises sounds and sweet airs that give delight and hurt not sometimes a thousand twangling instruments will hum about my ears and sometimes voices that if i then had waked after long sleep would make me sleep again that i think is the most beautiful thing you that's great yeah i would have loved to seem like olivier or somebody like you know uh william k what role have you played that you thought was amazing but hasn't received the attention you think

it should. I've been very lucky. All the things that I've felt really needed to be seen have been seen. We're seen. Yeah. That's fine. They tended to plays that I was in that I'm really proud of. They tended to sell well.

The shows that I would hope that it would be forgotten or forgotten. Yes. The movies. Well, maybe not now that we brought them up. If you notice that I didn't give you a long list of the movies that I did. To pay the bills. But I'm very lucky. I don't feel underappreciated at all.

I feel probably, if anything, over-appreciated. Good. Elizabeth L. If you could work with any actor or actress, past and present, who would it be, Meryl Streep. Merrill Street, Merrill Street, Merrill Street. Have you ever been? She is like Miles Davis and the rest of us are like Millie Vanilly. I swear to God.

She's on a different level of artist. I got to hang out with her. She is like. I was enamored. If you go back and look at Brando and then look at Meryl Streep, it's obvious. obvious that, okay, Brando was coming from people who weren't doing it this way. They weren't being real like that yet. And so he was revolutionizing everything.

So you can excuse him for not being nearly as good as Meryl Streep. Yeah. Meryl Streep built on what Brando and everyone who came before gave her, you know, but she just took it to a whole different life. Yeah, I love her. And you know what I noticed is when I met her and it was through one of her friends and I was at their house. I hung out with

I'm glad I have not met Merrill Street but let me tell you something she made me feel at ease like that and I was like yeah you know blah blah and she goes and she starts laughing and she's so her voice is so soft and she was just she was like oh my god

I remember that I remember and we were telling stories and she was she just felt like just she was a fun person she wasn't all serious and Jessica Chastain who I like a lot. See, that he makes me even more like her even more,

which means I would just fanboy out even more. Kristen B, any behind-the-scenes stories you could share working with me and Tom Willing during Smallville, which you probably talked about last time, but it's been a while. Yeah, we talked. I just remember that, yeah, we talked about it. They wanted us to fight so bad.

They wanted us to hate each other for the press. And you and I liked each other. We just gave them nothing. I was like, yeah, he's great. he's perfect it's like we're having a great time he's a great actor yeah fun what are you to do don gee what do you love to act in movies tv or theater the most theater theater theater without a doubt yeah are you going to do more theater i don't know like i was thought at some point my kids would get out of college and i would go back and do theater um and they're

still in college man it seems all that the further you get away from doing theater that's what happened to me, the less I wanted to do it. Because I did a lot of theater in college and then I was doing some off-Broadway stuff in New York. And then I got flown out to L.A., landed a movie, landed a show. And the next thing you know, 20 years passed me by. Yeah. And I haven't done a play since. And I'm not so sure I could deal with a schedule of eight shows every night, the stress, the, you know, I'm not sure I would enjoy that. But maybe I would. I would like to find out if I would enjoy that or not. I'll be honest. I would like to go back and see if I can still swim in that pool. It's like riding a bike probably for you, but you did a lot more theater. I've probably done

25 plays in my life. That's about it. That's a good amount. I've probably done 100. Yeah. I've done 100. Well, no. I mean, that's 25 is a lot of plays. Yeah. Who is your, who have you gotten star struck by when you've met them? Leonard Nimoy. Really? It was horrible. I wish I would have met him. I was such a Star Trek fan. What'd you say to him? I just climbed all over him. I was at a convention.

And sometimes when you're in the green room, you're actually still on because the other actors are actually fans of what you've done. So they're asking you for autographs and the other. And there's nowhere to go to relax and just have some downtime. So you can recoup your energy and go back and be with the fans and have a good time there. And so you need a break. So sometimes they'll give certain actors their own room

so they can have some quiet. And I was experiencing this in the green room. I still had blonde hair. I was on Buffy and I was getting a lot of attention in the Greenwood. So they shuttled me off to this private room where Leonard was also sitting. And he's trying to have a break.

And he's like 70-something years old. He needs a break. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm the biggest fan of you. This is what happened. Thank you. Oh, my God. And you could just see him going, oh, God, there's no safe place.

Blonde. I was just like, not that he thinks I'm a bad person, but he just cannot get away from the fact that everyone wants to talk to Spock. No, not in the green room at the time. Was he smoking in the green room? But yeah, I always felt bad about that. I could not be cool. I could not keep it together in front of him.

There's nothing wrong with that. Well, what I realize is that I just wanted to applaud. I just wanted. Like, like, when you're in a- Did you get him to sign something? No, no. They got him out pretty quickly. I would have gotten to sign something.

He signaled, he signaled somebody and he was whisked away. And he's probably, he was probably in the bathroom and the stall, because that's the only place that he could get private, just sitting there. You know. But, yeah, I think what, what I realized was is that I just wanted to applaud. Because, like, I was in plays where you'd be in the first act and you wouldn't be in second act or third actor or you wouldn't be in the last scene at least and you could go home early you could go home an hour and a half early but you have to sit backstage like a good little boy

just so that you could go on stage and bow and then then you go home right and when you're doing nine or 11 shows a week you really wish you could go home you just like the applause is not like that's and you realize that the applause is not for the actors everyone thinks oh actors live for applause no we really don't it's for it's so the the audience has a chance to join the conversation and and and have their voice and there's different kinds of applause there's like wow we think you're amazing there's yeah we're not going to ask for our money back and there's why did you waste our time you know like there's all you can tell you know there's a message given in that applause and i had been watching lena no more for years and i had never had a chance to applaud

and i just had this overwhelming need to say he smile i love you he grimaced in a friendly way So, you know, yeah, yeah, but I was like Yoda. I was taking away is one moment of silence. I've had some moments where I was Starstruck, like meeting Jack Nicholson and hanging with them back at the Lakers game in the chairman's room at the time when they used the chairman's room. They think they still do, but he was in the cigar room. And I just went in and I didn't know who was in there, and I was having a cigarette at the time

years ago. And I go. I just was like, oh, man, I hope we could win this one. He goes, well, you know, Shaq's hurt right now. And, you know, you hope Kobe can. And he starts talking about the game with me. And I'm like, yeah, you know, blah, blah, blah. And how long you've been coming here?

And I was like, you know, hockey's my sport. He's, well, I never really got hockey as much. But, and we've had this, like, all of a sudden I'm, and I'm starstruck. There's no way around it. And I'm doing the best acting of my life to make him think I'm not starstruck, that I'm just a dude. And this one guy walks in and goes, Jack! And I go, oh, fuck. And he goes, this game, man, not as good as he gets, huh?

And Jack goes, if you'll excuse me, and walked out. And I go, you fuck? And the guy goes, what? He goes, you just ruined my moment. I was talking with Jack. And he goes, dude, sorry. I'm like, God, damn. Because you were just talking to a human being.

I was just talking about sports and having a nice moment. yeah this has been a joy yeah oh my god is it over it's over schmachters damn it well i do have to pee again so yeah well schmactors listen to this podcast if you like this guy if you love this interview give it a shot i know you will you're gonna have a lot of fun with it too and um i always root for you anything else that you want to throw out there promote do it yeah there's a really good show on amazon prime called casa grande that i'm really proud of yes really wanted to get a second season. It's an update of upstairs downstairs. A third of it is in subtitles because it's it's about wine growers and ranchers in Napa Valley and then the Latinos that work the land

and both sides are human beings and there's a cultural gulf in between them. And it is, it is phenomenally beautiful. It's really well shot. There's an award-winning Argentinian director that came in to do it. I had such a good experience. And who do you play? I play a jerk, a lovable jerk. Yeah? Yeah, with a cowboy hat. It was cool. Did you have to speak any Spanish at all? No, no. You have to know a lot about wine? I had to act like I knew something about wine. But my character made the bad wine. I was the richest guy because I made the, I made the mediocre wine. And I was all after money. And the first is Casa Grande? Casa Grande. It's on Amazon Prime. Large home. Is that what it stands for? Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's just very well acted, very well written. I'm very proud of it. And I'm really hoping to do more. Any cons coming up? oh yeah oh yeah so look on your if they go to your instagram at uh real james marsters real james marsders marsters and you can see his like mouse turds where he's gonna be all that stuff you could talk to this guy ghost the robot just put out a new album ghost the robot you started that band in 2004 2001 2001 yeah but yeah we just put 10 men out that's available on

it dude place yeah with it and that's a really good album we just we just went into the studio and just played as a band. Live? Yeah. So you didn't really click track. No, it just was live. Well, we all have to,

well, the drummer has a click and then we're all following the drummer. Oh, gotcha, got you. And we did some overlaying afterwards. We did some harmonies and some extra guitars in it, but the spine of the thing we got just in one take, just boom.

And it's, so it's kind of like the stone's placement tapes. Yeah, yeah. So what's the name of the album again? Tin Man. Tin Man. Yeah. And, you know, you can get it. We're on Spotify.

We're on iTunes. when you can get it anywhere. I mean, he's done a ton of stuff. Check out Casca Grande. Check out the band. And curses on Apple Plus. Jesus, curses. It's for kids.

It's a cartoon. But it's really cool. It takes like Indiana Jones where white people are going into foreign cultures and stealing their stuff, which is, you know, really problematic if you think about it. Yes. So it's a bunch, it's a family that is trying to give back the artifacts that their, that their dad stole. Ah, that's really interesting. Yeah.

Yeah. Gosh, if we could really do that in real life. Wouldn't that be nice? You know, like give Mexicans back two million square miles of their land. Wouldn't that be nice? It would be great. You know, maybe the Native America. I mean, we can go on.

Anyway, thank you for being on the show. I love you, and I always wish you the best. Hell yeah. It's so good to see you, my brother. Wait, I didn't get charged for my donut. It was free with his Tim's rewards points. I think I just stole it. I'm a donut stealer.

Earn points so fast, it'll seem too good to be true. Plus, join Tim's rewards today and get enough points for a free donut, drink, or timbits. With 800 points after registration, activation, and first purchase of a dollar or more. See the Tim's app for details at participating in restaurants in Canada for a limited time. He's just, he's, he's so articulate and he's been around. He's like, you know, he's maybe a little older than me, but like, I kind of feel like he's got to figure it out. now you know it's like i don't know how long it takes to figure out who we are who we think we are you know um but i feel like a lot of his wall the walls that we have as we're actors and this and

trying to be relevant i think those walls are sort of stripped down he knows who he is he knows what he wants he knows what he does and he does it well and he's a talented talented guy and i really loved having him on the podcast again he's a great guest james you'll have to come back and uh thank you and again, if you enjoy this podcast, please support the show and come back and visit us and join Patreon if you want to. Patreon.com slash inside of you. And right now, all the top tiers get their name shouted out. And we love all of you equally. You're amazing. And also, September 28th, we're doing another Sunspin virtual show. So get tickets. Go to sunspin.com. And we're doing a show because we're preparing for our album and trying to get enough money.

to pay for all our studio session members and band members studios uh session players uh you know all that stuff but the album's going to be really cool in fact blake lewis is producing my album cool me and rob's album son's been's album and blake lewis a friend of mine he was like the runner-up on uh american idol many years ago and he's incredibly talented and so this album has a has a chance to sound different and we'll see what happens but uh let's get into the top tiers thank you guys so much Trune.com slash inside of you. Nancy D. Leah and Kristen Little Lisa, Eukiko, Gle, Brian H, Nico P, Robert B, Jason, W. Sophie M. Raj C. Jennifer N. Stacey L. Janelle B. Mike. L. Don Crono.

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P.R. C. Sulton, Ingrid. C. Brandon. C. Ronit. L. Ronan's back. Oh, Ronit. Thanks for, uh, you know, giving back to the podcast and becoming a patron. Give some love guys to Ronit. Write him on a patron. You guys should all be talking. It's a family here for God's sakes. All right. That's it from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I love right days. I'll be here too. Yeah, a little way for the camera. We love you guys. Be good to yourself. And I'll see you next week.

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