Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - JOEL KINNAMAN: Controlling Rage, Overcoming Eating Disorders & Reaching Another Level

Episode Date: March 31, 2026

Joel Kinnaman (Robocop, The Killing) joins us this week and gets real about anxiety, identity, and doing the work to change. From developing an eating disorder as a kid to dealing with panic attacks as an actor, Joel explains how therapy, meditation, and intense self reflection helped him regain control. He also reflects on his career, admitting he has spent years making projects that did not fully align with his creative goals, and why he is now trying to shift direction. Thank you to our sponsors: x __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou⁠⁠ 👕 Inside Of You Merch: ⁠⁠https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: ⁠⁠https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🤣 TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast⁠⁠ 📘 Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🐦 Twitter: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod⁠⁠ 🌐 Website: ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I was like literally at the edge of like, do I give up on this and go back home? We've all had those thoughts. Yeah. And I realized like, I have another gear that I just haven't been using. They need to build themselves up by pushing other people down. And to me, that's like the. Yeah, I can't deal with that. Yeah, I can't have that around.

I had a, actually had eating disorder when I, yeah, when I grew up that was like connected to nervousness. It is sort of a right of passage. If you go through that, then you have faced, like, scary things in your mind. And if you're able to, like, breathe your way through that, even though it's scary and hold on and, like, stay centered, then, you know, whatever life throws at you, then, you know, you've been to boot camp. You know, that that's sort of my mission in life that I'm not going to pass that family tradition down to my kids. Do you feel more comfortable performing emotion than expressing it in real life? Can you let things go? Do you still feel like you have something to prove?

What helps you now if you get anxious and nervous? What do you do? Did you get hurt? You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thanks for joining us. You know what? We've got a dog in here. Ricky likes to stay here.

That's Ricky. He feels safe. Ricky really likes to hang out. I don't know about you, but do you, well, you don't have an animal, but how many of you guys out there just wake up periodically or you're just lying there and I just want to kiss and hug my dog. I do it all the time. Like I bother them.

Like my dogs get bothered. It's too much. That's how much I love on them. It's they provide like comfort. A comfort, a warmth. I know when I look after my sister's dog, he's yay big, but he's like compact and cuddly. He likes to sit on laps for leverage. And I enjoy it.

I do too. I love my dogs. I don't know why I said that. All right. Look, a great show today. a lot to unpack. Joe Kinneman is here. You've seen him and everything.

So good looking, but also a great actor, really great actor and a great guy. And we had a lot of fun today, and you're going to really enjoy it. A few things. If you're new to this show, I urge you to follow us and support us.

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Inside of you online store. And my Instagram, Matthew Michael, Rosenbaum, and the link tree's there, cameo and cons going to Cruiseville. Get your tickets for cruise. get on the cruise with us. Ryan's going. Ryan is going on the cruise. It's official. It's official. I'm doing it. I'm very happy, Ryan. I did what I could and with the helps of some little friends. There was a lot that went into it. People want you there. Yeah. There were a lot. There was a lot of forces behind it. Yeah. You know, I had made peace with maybe not going and then, but there were. Are you sick of smallville yet? Uh, I can't be. Yes. Uh, it's also very new to me. Yeah, because we're doing the, when I'm talking about the podcast,

3-Watch podcast Talkville. I don't have to talk about it when I go to Mexico. I got to do other stuff when I went to Mexico. We got a lot of great stuff for you coming up. So let's get inside of Joel Kinneman. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

So I was talking to our mutual friend. James Gunn and I said, I said, James, I'm having Joel Kinnaman on the show. What do you, what do you think of him? He goes, absolutely love that guy and fuck you. And I thought he was saying, fuck you to me. I go, that's really. No, fuck you to him. Yeah, fuck you, James.

Yeah, fuck you, James. What was it like working with James? I loved it. He's, uh, I mean, he's, uh, he's kind of a genius. He's, he's so dialed in on what he wants to do and his vision's so clear. he's edited the whole movie in his brain and he like knows what part of the song is coming in like it's like he's already seen the film in his mind and then we come there and then we get to play you know and then you know so I'm sure that like there's some shapes that you know he hadn't

imagined that you know take place but it's yeah he just he really knows what he wants yeah that scene between you and Sina at the end yeah it just doesn't end the fighting yeah suicide squad it's like i i kept thinking oh my god this had to be physically mentally exhausting that that scene where you're just beating the shit out of each other especially for me because yeah he's beating the shit out of you he's a really big guy just did you get hurt no no really yeah i mean that's one thing with uh you know someone like john he really knows how to do fake fighting was it exhausting though i mean it is yeah i mean it's uh but it's fun you know it's when when you have a good fight scene and there's like a good story in the fight yeah then

And then, you know, that stuff is fun. Yeah, I mean, I just was like, holy shit. How do you just keep the intensity? How do you keep the, you know? And that's one of the through lines that I want to talk to you about today. Because it's like you have a lot of, the first thing I saw you in was the killing. Yeah. And I remember going, this guy is great.

Who is this guy? I kept thinking that. This character that you played, it just felt like I could smell the B.O. off him. I could fucking, I could see the history. I could see a lot of darkness, but there was a purity to him too. There's some kind of, you had all these elements that you were playing. Was that kind of the real role that kind of took you off?

Like, not took you off, that got you going? I mean, it literally was. It was my first job off the boat. It was. Yeah. So I moved to the States in the end of 2009. And, and then, and I came out here and, you know, doing the whole auditioning circus and wasn't going great. Really?

I mean, it was like I had a couple of, it's, I was doing really, I thought I was, I had like the whole Hollywood thing on lockdown before it even started when I was back in Sweden. Because I was, I did one tape, one self tape from Sweden. It was for Thor. And then I was sort of the runner up all of a sudden. And I didn't really understand the process. I was supposed to do a chemistry read with Natalie Portman, but then I was shooting and doing theaters. I couldn't do it.

And then, you know, I didn't get that. But I was like, oh, this doesn't seem so hard. You know, I should. And then I came close on another thing that I just sent in a tape on. And, yeah, so I thought I was like, yeah, maybe, you know, this is going to be easy. And then I came to the States and, you know, I didn't get an audition for months. And I was, yeah, my confidence was just going in the tank, didn't have any money left. So I was like literally at the edge of like, do I give up on this and go back home?

We've all had those thoughts. Yeah. We've all had those thoughts of like, I remember just in New York doing like off, off Broadway, like New Jersey Broadway, you know, and just trying to keep it together and living with three guys in a one bedroom. We had bunk beds and my friend, I slept on this futon mattress. and Dave had to wake up to do telemarketing every day. So he jumped down. And every night I go, Dave, don't fucking land on my legs.

He's like, dude, I got you. And I was always fearing I had nightmares of Dave falling on my legs and breaking them. I mean, it was just like, and I was like, man, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't think this is going to work out. I just try and audition. I was like, people were auditioning me for commercials. I wasn't booking any of these fucked up teeth. I was just trying to like, you know.

Teeth look great. Well, now they do because my, because a manager in L.A. years ago, goes, listen, if you want to be considered for lead roles or character roles, good looking roles, decent looking roles, you got to fix your teeth. He's the first one who said it to me. Everyone else was like, no, they're fine, man. And I got a retainer, and it's straightened them out. Life changed.

So this is a thing that's very different with Europe and the U.S. I mean, now I guess it's maybe, you know, shifting a little bit, but we were never that obsessed with teeth and uh you know and americans are like really obsessed with teeth right and i feel like in in the u.s you could always like see in a person's mouth if they had money or not and and and is in in in in sweden and in europe and england you know you see a lot of rich people with really fucked up teeth now it's kind of changed right now everyone has like a like a perfect Hollywood smile but it's uh i don't i don't i don't to me i don't mind bad teeth that much you know i mean if you're like supposed to be this good looking guy that the women are all falling over and this

and that and you smile. It's like character. And you're Steve Bouchemmy when you smile. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. Like, you know, it's like people have fucked up teeth. But, you know, I think what it is is distractions. Yeah. They don't want to see distractions when they're watching a movie or this unless it's a certain kind of character. Yeah. Right. Did you have always good have good teeth? I mean, they're pretty straight. But, uh, yeah, but I think it's because I've like grind them down, you Are you, you give anxiety? No, I think it's just when I'm sleeping, you know. Everybody grinds.

Yeah. Do you? I'm on the grind. Do you, it's like my wife, you know, she's like one of the hottest women, the most beautiful women that's ever existed on this planet. She's going to listen to this. She's got some fucked up teeth. Right.

Yeah. It's like, and it's one of the things that I love the most about her, you know? It's like, because it's, for me, it's like this kind of perfection when there's no flaws. That's not attractive. Right. Yeah. You know, I think it's like her, it's one of the things I love the most about her.

And when she hears this, she's going to be like, you said my teeth are fucked up. She's probably going to kick me in the throat. You have that kind of relationship where you just, you just say what you want to say and that's why it works, you think? I mean, we fight a lot. You do? Yeah. What do you fight over? You know, it's hard when there's like two people that are both number one on the call sheet, you know?

Yeah. No, I mean, we, we'd have a fiery relationship. Fierry. Yeah. It's a lot of passion, yeah, for sure. Right. So you could be just like, oh, my God, I can't fucking deal with this in the next minute you're just, yeah, can't get enough.

Yeah. It's, I mean, we just got it over like a four-day fight. Four days. Four days. Usually they say, you know, a good fight is you fight for a little bit and then you're able to make up right away. Yeah. But four days.

Four days. Was it some, I bet it wasn't even a big deal. No, I mean, it was about nothing. You know, I'm a fucking idiot too. So, you know, so that that doesn't help. Yeah. I get it. We're idiots.

Men are idiots. We are. But you can't, like, I always say you can't expect too much from us. Like these things sometimes that they want, it's just like, I, my mind is like, it doesn't mean I don't want to try. I don't want to, but I forget and I don't think. And I, I work so much. Like, I mean, we both do.

I mean, I've taken so much psychedelics. and therapy and, you know, I mean, one day I'm getting there. I'm getting it. I'm like, it's so hard with this, you know, to communicate in a healthy way. You know, that's just not how. We're a work in progress, man. Yeah, and like my family, my, the men in my family, you know, we communicate through, you know, rage. It's like, uh, or grunts.

What? No. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, yeah, we're, we're plagued by it. So, I mean, this whole thing of like being. on the same team while in conflict, to me, that just doesn't make any sense. If we were on the same team, then we wouldn't be in a conflict, right? Right. Yeah. So that's the stuff that I'm

working on. Were your parents, are your parents still with us? Yeah. Are you close to them? Yeah. What was your upbringing like? Was it, uh, was your dad really just laid back and cool and supportive and incredibly loving, um, incredibly loving guy, but also like, uh, I mean, he definitely made his mistakes with me. and had an issue with his temper and rage. I mean, I probably got 10% of what he got from his dad, but that 10% was not the 10% that you should have. When the weather cools down, Golden Nugget Online Casino turns up the heat.

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Oh, yeah, yeah. You know, it's been a big topic. And, you know, we've had our sort of, you know, when I was in like in my mid-20s, we had, you know, we had our big sort of adult come together. there he you know apologized really yeah yeah well that's great yes it's it's it's where it was it was beautiful you know that that's sort of my mission in life that i'm not gonna pass that family tradition down to to my kids yeah it's hard it's hard it's like you get something you're a product of your own environment right so yeah you know it's like you know you get some of your dad you get some of

your mom and you're like all right well i like this about my mom but i don't like this and how do i work on that and sometimes it feels like it's part of you like how do i how do i how do i how do i how do you have kids no no i mean either yeah do you want kids yeah more than anything really yeah wow yeah i'm dying what kind of father you think you'd be uh fun always goofing yeah fun um present probably not enough discipline probably not um and and i know i already know like all the fights me and my wife are going to have over kids. She's going to be furious with me for taking too much risk. Right. And like, yeah, but he was like, he wanted to drive, you know. He was four. Yeah. He can take a couple of shots. You know, like, come on. Let him fall.

Let him, let him learn. No, but I think, you know, and when I go back and I see sort of like how my parents, you know, some of the things that they did. And it's like, they definitely like had a long, I had a long leash. And when they tried to put it on me, I snapped it and ran away. So, I mean, I don't know, you know, like, it's a, I was very, very wild when I grew up. Party and drinking. Yeah. I mean, too much too early.

Like, I was going pretty hard even before my teens. Wow. Yeah. When I was like 12. Was that the Swedish thing to do? I mean, I was early in Sweden, but I think it's earlier in Sweden, but yeah, I was, I was out smoking hash when I was 12. And how they discipline you?

I mean, they tried to, you know, tell me, you know, I was grounded for a month or whatever, but then I'd find a way to climb out the window and run away for a couple days. And, you know, so I was not easy to race. This is like your character in the killing in a way. This is like, this is probably what his upbringing was like, you know, just kind of a rebel. You probably used a lot of that, right? I mean, I think we always use what we always use what we grew up with.

I mean, that's one of my favorite things about this profession is that it's like this, this process of transforming the ugliest, dirtiest, you know, most negative experiences that you've had into something that is creative and something that, you know, hopefully connects to your vulnerability and to other people's vulnerability so they can not feel alone when they see something in someone else. Yeah. I always feel like, you know,

I could definitely, you know, my dad, when he snapped, like, you know, just, you know, he was just, he's a big guy. And his voice scared me more than anything. Yeah. So you have a good voice too. Well, it's the thing,

when I have to tap into a darkness or something, that stuff's kind of easy for me. Yeah. It's weird. It's like I could go crazy. I could get pissed. I could be fucking scary. Yeah.

I can. I don't do it unless I'm filming for the most part. I don't, I mean, very few times if I let it out where I just kind of lose my shit. Do you ever lose your shit? Yeah. Are you kind of a yeller? You know, as I said, I've, you know, done a lot of plant medicine and. What helps?

What helps? For me, meditation and yoga is like kind of key staples for me. I meditate almost every day. and I do, I mean, it kind of comes in phases, but I do yoga three, three, four times a week. Yeah. I mean, when I have those practices, it's just like I get a couple of extra, I get five, 10 seconds more of like time to like settle my mind, take a couple of breaths. Like, okay, is this really like I can feel the sort of.

You're not reactive. Yeah, exactly. I become less reactive. And then, you know, and then when you're stressed or you haven't eaten or, you know, then of course, it's easier to be reactive. But for me, that's like, that's the sort of the process that I've been working on in my life of like finding the sort of inner piece to deal with like that chemistry when you get like the adrenaline shock when you get pissed or, you know, like I don't, I used to, I used to be a lot

angrier and i used to like snap and traffic and yeah and if someone like bumped into me on the street or i i would i would be in that sort of uh i would be easy it would be easy to get me into uh like a bad situation or an altercation or you don't do that anymore someone does that you're very yeah i mean i mean a part of it's just like becoming an adult but but but even that it's like I think we're all kind of wired with both different chemistry and, you know, conditioned from our upbringing. And like, I really needed to find sort of a mindfulness practice and to sort of create a layer in my brain where my chemistry could bounce off of. And you're sold on it. You think meditation helps you substantially. Oh, my God. It's, yeah.

What about diet? like what won't you eat the day before you film like because you know you're going to feel like shit if you eat these things i'm i'm pretty um i'm pretty dialed in with what i eat i am and i kind of eat the same all the time so i've found a way you know to eat that i like that kind of keeps me in shape but i'm also getting the amount of mouth pleasure that i need i mean taste the savory i mean like i i will i will have a pizza and and a burger every now and then um but otherwise i i eat mostly like fish and vegetables and i'm we we cook you know nine times out of ten is it yeah is that a game changer though if you're having vegetables and fish and you kind

of get into that routine of eating that every day do you think it makes a huge difference in how you feel oh my god yeah it's uh it's i don't eat a lot of i almost eat i mean i don't eat i don't eat sugar. No popcorn? Yeah, popcorn. I love popcorn. Popcorn. Popcorn is a great snack. Yeah. But I don't eat any like, you know, refined sugar. So I'll eat coconut sugar or honey. And I personally think it tastes better. And you don't get that like insulin spike and then you feel like jittery after. I drink a lot of coffee. So that's like sometimes you can get a little cracked out from that. But I really believe in that. you know, that the sort of how your gut flora and how much that affects your brain and your mood,

it's, to me, that's like if you eat good and you don't have a lot of inflammation, you're also going to have like much better thoughts. Your brain chemistry is going to be at a much better. The amount of shit you're doing right now, you have to eat healthy. You have to meditate. I feel like everything you're doing you have to do because if you changed or you started eating like shit and this and that. I don't know how you get through it.

I mean, you got, you're a beast, man. You're constantly working. You got all this shit coming out. You got imperfect women on Apple TV with Elizabeth Moss, Carrie Washington, and Kate Mara. What was that experience like? It was honestly one of my favorite experiences in a long time. Also, it was,

I've come off with just many projects in a row that I was carrying. That I was like, you know, in every day and the kind of project was and i was also producing a lot of things i was doing so the relationship to the other actors out you know you come from a place of responsibility and you know setting that you're taking responsibility for the crew setting the tone you know all of that it's like uh which i really enjoy but it takes a lot of energy um i mean you get a lot from that too but it's definitely like it's a bigger investment and here you know it was the girls show and and I was just, I got to come in and be, you know, the toy boy.

And I just got to play. Or the toy boy boy. Boy toy, yeah. So you had fun. You were able to just like, hey. Oh, it was so fun. And it was like a real girl power show. It was like all the producers, writer, directors, stars of the show, all women.

And you loved it. It was great. Like, I had such a good time. And, yeah, and also, I mean, the, the, the, it was great writing. And all my co-stars were top shelf actors, which just makes things so fun and easy and playful. And yeah. Yeah.

So it was, it was a great experience. I think he was going to turn out really well. I was, I was really happy with that performance. It was, I felt like. So you've seen it all? No, I haven't. Just the experience. Oh, just the experience.

So you have no idea. Yeah. Can you let things go? Can you watch yourself or do you not like that? No, yeah, I watch what I do. Some people don't like watching the show. Yeah. No, I think it's really educational. Yeah, and then, you know, sometimes when I go back and watch things that I did like back in the day, I'm like, oh. Fuck.

What was I doing? Yeah, I learned a lot from like looking at stuff that I did. I realized there was a period of my career where I was really upset. obsessed with dialects and like doing the dialects. Yeah. And then I go back and look at some of those performances and I realize like, yeah, sounds pretty good, but performance is a little stiff, you know? And so they're hard on yourself.

Yeah, for sure. But then, so then they made me like rethink, like, how do you do dialects? It's like either you kind of just throw out a dialect and you just don't think about it so much, or you got to go so deep that, that you basically learn a new language and you're completely fluent and you can just be in that dialect you know effortlessly and you know like you can go you know you can just improvise and you have to be able to speak in that dialect if you're in the space where you're like you've learned your lines in the dialect to me it's like it just doesn't really gel with the way that I like to work I can't like

improvise I can't like pick up on yeah impulse you want to be really comfortable with what yeah It's got a flow. Yeah, do you ever watch, like, watch yourself now and just sometimes you're like, you don't say anything, but in your head you're like, that was a bullshit moment. I didn't believe that. That was all right. That was better. That was, are you like that? Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, yeah, I'll definitely look. I'm definitely looking critically. I think I'm more, like, interested in, like, how, how free I was, you know, and how loose. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, if you're loving inside of you and you want to keep the show going, I encourage you to check out our community at patreon.com slash inside of you.

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All right. So Joe Nesbo's detective hole. Yeah. So they sent me the episode last night. Okay. First episode. I ended up watching both that they had. Oh, cool.

Dude. Talking about a, just a contrast in a lot of of roles you played from um for all mankind for this imperfect women it's like you know right off the bat like you're not a good guy and i don't and i know there's more twists and turns that are going to happen yeah but some of the shit i'm like oh my god i mean what was that like playing that role and and you it was swedish right yeah yeah so you were like you said comfortable because you know you mean you're Swedish. Yeah. What was that experience like? Yeah, it was great. I was pretty pissed at myself afterwards because like this is the first thing I've done in Swedish in like 13 years.

Wow. And I realized like, fuck, like I have another gear that I just haven't been using. It's like that that was my feeling when I, what gear is that? Just like in Swedish, it's, It's, you know, I grew up speaking English at home with my dad, but I grew up in Sweden. So, like, I didn't move to the States until I was 30. So it's just like I have a playfulness with the language and dialects. And it's just, there's just like a little subtle. When I, so when I, when I, when I came to the States first, like, you know, the killing was the first thing. I was I was very really preoccupied with that it was going to sound American because I had a bit of like a Swedish accent.

And I realized when I looked at a text in English, it was like, okay, how do I make this sound right? But when I look at a text in Swedish, I would be like, okay, which of these different five ways do I want to do? And I immediately got like a bunch of ideas of how creatively I could play with the language and emphasize different things and rhythm size it. And I didn't really have that in English. Right. And then I've been here for, you know, 15 years. So now I have that feeling in English.

And at first, when I went back to Swedish, I was like feeling a little stiff. Or not just not stiff, but I was like, I just felt like an older version of myself in a way. And then just a couple of weeks into it, there was something that just happened. and I just I was

I have like another gear and how loose I can be with the material and how easy it comes for me to improvise for any role now. You tapped into it. It was just like in that language, you know, it's because it's just like the language

I grew up in and, and you know, it was the language that I had in my teens and in my 20s. I guess, you know, like, that's the language that I had when I was, you know, goofing around with my friends

doing a bunch of different. different accents, impersonating people. You know, I just have like a different repertoire in Swedish. So it was like, but that was a really fun character to play. It's great. It's very fun to play. It's something I haven't really seen you do. No.

I've played a sociopath before, but it was in a movie that seven people saw. So. So who is like, I'll go watch it now. That's called Child 44. Child 44. Yeah. It was like, it was a movie where we all thought we were like, going to the podium.

I'm going to win an Oscar. Got my speech. Yeah, it was like an incredible cast. Tom Hardy, Numeropas, Gary Oldman, Vincent Kassell. Gary Oldman, you had scenes with Oldman? Oh, yeah. I've done two movies with Gary Oldman.

He's my favorite actor. He's incredible. He's the best. Want to hear my Gary Elman impression? Yeah. When you're dealing in an industry like this, you've got to have a great ego. And Francis Ford Coppola has an ego

the size of San Francisco. And I've got a pretty big one too. I don't know, that's it. That's pretty good. I remember him. He used to get in, like, he didn't like working with Francis. They had like this like relationship in Dracula. And, you know, he was trying to be nice about his.

Yeah. Oh, you're dealing in an industry like this. I love Gary Oldman. Yeah. You know, what's your favorite oldman movie? Maybe Leon. I was going to say that. Yeah.

But then also. Everyone. Yeah, that was a that was in wild wild old mid days. Oh, wild woman. He was probably smashed. Yeah, yeah. But then also, have you seen No By Mouth that he directed? Dude, I loved it.

Yeah. I went to the screening of it in Santa Monica. I love, I love that's a great film. Talk about a raw, like, that's his life. Yeah. Like that was just a slice of life of Gary Oldman. Right Winston. Yeah.

I also loved him in true romance. Yeah. Oh. Who are you? I'm her husband. That makes this practically related. Remember that? Yeah.

That whole shit. But you talk about the language and like how you can be so. Almost blackface. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was close.

That was close. But I think you got to get them. It nick them. You know, it was just. But you got to give yourself like credit because, you know, you are from Sweden. And so it's like you're getting comfortable with languages. And like when somebody says, I want you to do this language, you could learn it. But you're not going to have that innate sort of a.

to unless you have years to work on a part yeah what's the most you've had most time you've had to work for on a on a part that you've got uh and it's yeah it's funny that's probably also the thing that i'm most proud of still which is sad because it was like fucking 18 years ago um i did a crime and punishment played raskolnikov but that was on stage in sweden um and then we we had a really long we had a long rehearsal period and then there was like delay in construction yeah so then we got like another i think i did we rehearsed for like four and a half months um so you were prepared yeah yeah yeah and you like that when you're prepared the most you love that yeah i i overprepared because i've also had my stints with like panic attacks and uh i used to

throw up all the time before i went on stage sounds like me yeah no one ever knows knows that i never tell people really about but like you know i'll come to the to the theater if i was doing theater i would do i'd come a couple hours early and i'd walk through everything i would do i was just like so i had to go like my blocking i'd walk through it i'd get into the part and then i'd go throw up or i'd have to go the bathroom my stomach's upset i cared so much and i was nervous and you know i was able to turn it on once that once but yeah the process was so difficult for me it was exhausting you go from sheer exhaustion to feeling oh my god this is great yeah and it was just back and forth all that time and so i've always had you know problems with anxiety riddled since i was a kid did you always have anxiety um yeah i had

a had a lot i was very i was nervous uh i had a yeah i had a actually had eating disorder when i uh yeah when I grew up that was like connected to nervousness was it overeating no no I had I had this anxiety over being too skinny and I also had this like conditions called pectus excavateum where my like my chest goes in right and when I was younger it was a lot deeper and I had an operation that sort of mitigated it but now it's kind of coming back but and so I felt like deformed. I felt like I was deformed. So I would never take my shirt off in front of anyone.

And I felt like I was a freak. So then my I was trying to train to like build up my muscle so you couldn't see the cavity. I thought if I built muscle around the cavity.

And then I tried to like force myself to eat more so I could get bigger. And then, and then so I developed this really unhealthy relationship to food where I would like this shove food down my, I would be full. And then I just kept trying to eat. And then, and then I'd be like nauseous. And then if something like a little nerve-wracking happen, then I'll throw up. And so I had there for many years.

And then when I started with acting, like it kind of hooked on to acting. And, yeah, it's a lot of these sort of like negative mind patterns. that actually they keep migrating in different ways over the course of your life. But for me, it's like the most profound, like, dent that I put into those was actually ayahuasca. My friend Dominant Monaghan just told me about this, and he says it will change your life. Yeah, I can. Did it change your life? I mean, yeah, for so, I mean, I think a lot of things change your life.

Because I have a lot of demons. I have a lot of insecurities and anxieties and things like that. And it forces you to face them, right? Yeah, for sure. It's like you can't escape. It will like really, it will really go to the source of, you know, whatever you are holding on to. Like, whatever you are not accepting about yourself, whatever. And it will just like fucking like put a floodlight, floodlight on that.

and it will not let you go that scares me so it's yeah it's terrifying um and and if you're able to like let go and surrender which is can be very difficult and when you're not doing that it can be very painful and you can get like ragged all by it you'll be okay though yeah i mean it's it's really i i i know that there are people that have it's not been a good thing for them. I think it's really important like the set and setting and like the

facilitation of it is like crucial. Yeah. Like you have a shaman. Yeah, but there's a lot of fake shamans out there. Yeah. No, you have to find the right person. Yeah. And and I, but I think the most important thing is actually the integration afterwards and like how because you stir up a lot of

shit and even though even like in the experience if you're able to like surrender and let go and sort of get the messages that that you need and and you're able to let go of the stuff that's not serving you and like holding you back and and and realizing the things that you're holding on and and then and then you know it like opens you up to you know and you feel incredible it opens you up to this possibility of a life that feels free without of these negative stories that you're telling about yourself. But if you don't integrate that in a good way and a really thoughtful way over several weeks afterwards and, you know, like if you jump back into, you know, taking drugs or drinking alcohol and like kind of numbing yourself, then I think there's risk of like you

ending up in a worse place than you were in the beginning. Wow. But it really is like a, I mean, I think I got insights and realizations that, you know. You never would have gotten. You know, I also have a therapist that I work with and he was like sort of like what you're describing, that sounds like a three-year therapeutic process that you, you know, did over a weekend. But then, you know, but then to get the lasting benefits of that, then for me, It's about like, you know, continuing to meditate and to journal and to, you know, that's,

and for me, that's where, you know, I'm still challenged. This episode is brought to you by FedEx. These days, the power move isn't having a big metallic credit card to drop on the check at a corporate lunch. The real power move is leveling up your business with FedEx intelligence and accessing one of the biggest data networks powered by by one of the biggest delivery networks. Level up your business with FedEx, the new power move. Before we jump back in, I just want to say thanks for listening and hanging out with us today. We've had the chance, Ryan, to sit down with over 300 guests on the show from people like

Alan Richardson, Kiana Reeves, Kristen Ritter, Bob Odenkirk, and so many others along the way. So if you're newer here, or if you've missed some episodes, there's a ton of great conversations in the archives worth. checking out. And if you're enjoying the show, make sure you're subscribed wherever you're listening. It helps support the podcast and make sure these episodes show up for you every week. And before we get back into it, here's a quick preview of what we've got coming up next week with Frankie Munez. Almost to clear the air a little bit. The story of that kind of was taken out of context in a sense. Oh, it was. Right? I have memory, not memory issues. I have a bad memory. And I,

I've thought over now all these crazy stories have come out where people are like, you don't even know that your wife has to wake up every single day. And that's not the case. No, no. No, I mean, I have a great memory. Bad memories. How did you do Malcolm in the middle? No, I can remember lines and I have a good memory.

But like I equated to this after this is now years of like trying to figure out like maybe why I don't absorb so many things. Well, A, since I was eight years old, I have been nonstop. doing things, flying here, doing that, and just crazy cool things and to, you know, like to where and then I've also been an actor my whole life where every single day I'm pretending to be somebody else and having somebody else's emotions and somebody's happiness or somebody's sadness or somebody's anger or someone's love interest, right? And all these things and they say cut when you're done with the scene and you forget about it. All right, let's jump back in. Do you still get

panic attacks or are you able to keep them in check? what what helps you now if you get anxious and nervous what do you do meditate obviously yeah i don't get that anymore you don't get panic attacks you don't get too nervous where it's interfering with your no and you used to i've sort of conquered a lot of that um and um and i have and you know that's not to say that i'm like not susceptible to it again but now i know what to do you know i know how to breathe i know I know. Yeah. It's also like when you when you do like heavy psychedelics too, it like puts you in a state where that is very scary. It can put you in a place that's very scary. And and that is also a challenge. So it is sort of a right of passage. So when if you go through that and then you have faced like scary things in your mind. And if you're able to like breathe your way through that even though it's scary and hold on and like stay centered even though it's. you know you want to not be there yeah you want this to be over yeah then then you know things whatever life throws at you then you know you you've you've had some like you've been to

boot camp Ryan do you want to do ayahuasca with me no I don't think you need it I think you're okay I got some in the back dude I got some high Olasca I got some high Olaasca you want to smoke some pot um for all mankind fifth season yeah were you surprised did you know this was going five seasons you knew the plan yeah i mean i i i got the i got when we uh when i signed up for it i got the five year pitch so uh yeah and they stay kind of you know the the outlines of that pitch is sort of what what happens uh people love the show i mean yeah rotten tomatoes which i can't really stand but you know because it's just like it says everything's great and you're watching you're like what the fuck are they watching but everybody loves this audience and rotten

tomatoes yeah it's uh now it's it's it's pretty deep in the fifth season is dope ed baldwin i mean you've aged yeah you came from this astronaut who missed you know landing on the moon yeah to now to going to grandpa mars you know running the mission of mars to what what can you say without giving too much away about what people could expect with the show this season and and maybe with ed yeah i mean uh ed's in his 80s now and uh how much makeup did you have? The funny thing was that the fourth season was took a lot longer than the fifth season. So, you know, in the show, I aged about 10 years every season. So I went from like 40, 50, 60, 70 and now 80. And now it was like a much bigger piece. This, I felt like the fifth season is where

we really like nailed the age makeup. Dialed in. And it was a lot easier to play 80 than to play 70. because you look around and you see like seven-year-old guys that there are a lot of seven-year-old guys that are they just have a little stiffness to them but otherwise they're very mobile. So it's really hard to play. Like what do you shift? But when you watch it, it's like I can see the body language

like it doesn't really, you know, like does it look 60? It's really hard to like define it. But when you get to 80, it's like it's easy because then you can like play into the age in a different way. So I found it a lot easier. And when I watched it, I was like, I felt like it really worked. I was really happy with it. But yeah, it's, you know, in the fifth season, it's the Mars colony is becoming its own thing.

And the sort of this idea of Mars independence is growing among the people. And there's, you know, there's sort of the class. struggle that that had begun in the fourth season about, you know, the sort of the working class on Mars, the people that were workers and that the sort of caste system that had appeared between the sort of astronauts and space administrators and the actual workers. That is like intensified. And now there's even like Mars, margin immigrants and migrants. that are coming in and being smuggled in. And so the conflict between Mars and Earth is like intensifying. And Ed Baldwin, old man Mars, always the rebel is at the center of it. I love that. I mean, all the Imperfect Women is out now because this will be airing when it comes out.

Yeah. Joe Nesbo's detective hole, Netflix, out now. Yeah. for all mankind out now yeah no i mean dude i've never had this before i had three shows come out in a week i mean that gets people looking like dude that that guy's in that too is that is that that guy the old guy is that him yeah and there's three different characters yeah very different which is really cool yeah it's fun oh man uh do you feel more comfortable performing emotion than expressing it in real life at this point?

I'm pretty comfortable with my emotions. I'm pretty comfortable with my vulnerability. I cry a lot. You do? Yeah. What do you cry at? I cry being moved by something that I watch or even if I see some art that moves me if it connects with me and somewhere.

I get emotional quite easy. Does your wife like it, that you get emotional? Yeah. She's like, oh, you're crying. Why are you crying? Yeah, I often cry when I watch movies. I'll hide behind a pillow. Like, you know, Jack will be on the couch next to me and I'll be on a chair and I'll just be reclining.

I'll just keep reclining back. Yeah. And there's like a pillow in between us. Like, there's a couch and a chair and I'll just go. God damn. And then she'll kind of peek over. And she goes, and then she'll give me a hug. You know, it's sweet.

I mean, it happens. I think I used to have this sort of sense of embarrassment around, which I think is really normal. You feel embarrassed about, you know, becoming vulnerable and sad. That's just kind of disappeared for me. Yeah, you seem like you got it under control. You got, you kind of, I mean, you went through a lot to get. get there though it's not like you didn't have a lot of demons and a lot of shit going on you did the work and that's that's the key man it's like you got to put one foot in front of the other you go to

therapy you you know you had this eating disorder you know you got through it you got through insecurities and we all still have our insecurities but you know a lot of times we talk about mental health on the podcast and like you know and people always looking for an answer and i guess the answer really is how much work you put into it yeah yeah Yeah, for sure. You know, it's what you put into your body. For sure. Exercise.

Your mind, strengthen your mind, expanding all these things. And it seems like a lot. But I think that's why you're able to do all these shows and continue working and not, you know, you probably, do you sleep pretty easily? Yeah. You can just fall asleep. Yeah, it depends on how much coffee I've had. Yeah. If I go over the two doubles presses a day, then I'm in trouble.

You ever work with any assholes? Yeah. Like you can't say, but how do you deal with them? Have you ever confronted one? Yeah. Yeah. You don't have to say his name or her name. Just say, I just did a project.

I just did a project. Yeah. Yeah, this guy that was supposed to direct something that I was part of and producing. Yeah, just unprepared, huge. ego, treated the crew like shit, and just made a mess of everything, showed up, coked up on set. So what did you do? We had a few long conversations, but then, you know, right to part ways. That was it.

Yeah. I can tell it's still upset you all the way. I wish I could fire him again. Yeah. You come across this thing where people have not done. The work. They've not done work on themselves. And they are governed by their insecurities.

and their egos and and the way that they tried you know they need to build themselves up by pushing other people down and to me that's like the yeah i can't say yeah i can't have that around you know it's like i i i would never have a friend that behaved in that way and and if and i will i will do a lot more diligence to make sure that i don't work with someone like that again i mean sometimes when you're you know and an actor you're not you're not casting it yourself so you don't really know. I feel like the overall, you know, how society has evolved over the past 10 years. And I think, you know, that's one of the good things that's come from social media. And, you know, there's a lot to be said about sort of kind of virtue signaling and all that.

But I think that one of the things that's really good that's happened is that the more, the more, the more virtuous qualities of how we deal with each other, they have been amplified. And there's much less room for that kind of sort of asshole-blowing behavior. Your reputation precede you. And it's so much easier to be kinder. Yeah. You know, it's so much easier. I mean, we were all assholes at some point and just, you know, said the wrong thing,

did this. But at the end of the day, it's like, you know, it's frustrating, especially when you're working someone, I want to be working on a project. And this is like, I love this project. And the people around me, and this person is just, fucking it all up yeah what do i do i'm just gonna punch this guy i bet you thought of it yeah um you still feel like you have something to prove yeah yes though i mean i you know i don't really have that sort of chip on my shoulder i mean in some ways i do it drives you yeah i mean i'm not where i want to be

really and i don't not really doing the things that i want like i have like a direction i'm not quite where I want you know every now I do a project where I did a film like it's the smallest film I've ever done tiny budget and first time director

called Clayton Villa and he wrote this beautiful script and I just haven't been doing those kind of films before it was like straight up drama me Paul Racy and a bunch of other great actors.

And I had so much fun doing that and I felt so good. It felt so important doing it and I realized like, I spent a lot of time using my talents to kind of make mediocre, you know, crowd-pleasing scripts work. But don't you think that's where that gets you to where you want to be? It does, but then you also get, you have to actively, like, get out of that lane, too. And I don't think I've been quite as active as I need to be.

So, you know, it's a learning process. But, you know, it's these, like, directions that we take in our careers. But, yeah, I still really love this profession and this craft. I'm still, like, utterly in love with it. I'm finding new ways of approaching it. And, yeah, so I still really love it. Yeah, The Beast with Samuel Jackson, Ronnie Harlan's The Beast. What can you expect from that?

Yeah, that's, it's, it's going to be a, it was actually a surprisingly good action script. How was Sam Jackson? So fun. But were you just like in awe? Yeah. Were you just like, oh my God, I'm working with Sam Jackson? That's funny. I'm sure this moment it will be in the trailer.

I had this like little improvised moment where he was a, he had one of, he plays the president. He had a very unpresidential moment. It was like, there was a moment where, like, you know, San Jackson plays his president. And there was a moment in the movie. I don't know if it's in the cut or not, but it turned into this, like, Richard Pryor sketch when he's like, when he turns into the president.

And he's like, motherfucker, motherfucker, told that motherfucker. And then in the script, I was like, Mr. President, I just got to say, I love the way you say. a motherfucker. And he was like, yeah, you gotta, you gotta drop the R. I was like, he was like, yeah, motherfucker.

And I was like, motherfucker. And I was like, motherfucker. Yeah, mom, yeah, motherfucker. And it stayed in? Yeah, I think that made the cut. It was like, Sam Jackson teaching me how to say motherfucker. Do you think that you like,

when you're on a set with these other big actors that you, that you respect, that you love, that you're working with, do you think there's part of you But like, you know, I want to let, I want them to fit in. I want them to know, hey, I'm one of the guys. I want them to like me. Is there still that kind of feel?

Yeah, to some degree, I think I've become less like that. I care less of what people think. And I think I'm more okay with not everyone loving me. I think it's, I think it's healthy to allow yourself to be somewhat disagreeable. Yeah. I mean, I'm definitely like that when I'm at work and I have an opinion about something. I think, you know, the opposite of that is being a people pleaser, which I think is also unhealthy. It's like, you got to find the sort of the balance.

But of course, you know, like someone, like Sam Jackson, I want to have fun with him. I want to have a good experience. Yeah. So, but, you know, I don't know if I would necessarily put in more effort because it's Sam Jackson than I would. I mean, that, that, that, that movie was like a two-hander, right? It was just me and him. We were the only cast. And so, you know, anyone that I'm like in a situation like that with a, you know,

I want us to have a good experience. Yeah, you want to have fun. But, but of course, it's like there's some good Sam Jackson stories. All right. This is called shit talking with Joel Kinneman. It's rapid fire. You just answer fast. Okay.

This is my patrons, patreon.com slash incite. You could ask questions if you're a patron. I love you. Thanks for the support. Gary F, have you ever turned down apart because it didn't align with your personal beliefs? Yes. Little Lisa, what about yourself? Do you have trouble acknowledging?

That's not a rapid fire one. I don't know. You have to answer it. Yeah. I'd say with me, it's like sometimes the ego gets in the way. I mean, that's definitely true. But I think I'm just very aware that I have an ego. Me too.

And that sometimes it gets in the way. Yeah, and sometimes it's good. Yeah. Raj, tell me by the time you had an out-of-body experience by Ayahuasca. Yeah. Yeah, that was a couple months ago. I want to talk to you about that later I mean after this

Linda M, what is your number one goal in life? Right now, it's start a family. And then win an Oscar. Families. Yeah, that's good. Do you do impressions? To everybody, every actor they say has to have one impression. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, I have a pretty decent in the cage. Let me hear it. Come on. I want to learn how to do that. I don't know how decent it is, but I'll definitely do it at parties. I did a movie with Nick. Oh, that's great. That's great, man.

And me and Yvall, the director, we show up at Nick's house. And, you know, on the outside is kind of this big pink house and it looks very friendly. And then right when we get up to the door, like, we're about to knock, like the door just like slams open. And he's like, fuck! It's like, my wild cat just ran away. Fuck, it's the third time he does it. And you're like, okay. And he's like, come on in.

And then we walk in. And inside, it's like a gothic church. And I was like, fuck, this is just as advertised. And he's like, welcome. And I just see like these animals, like moving around. Like, this is a huge cat. I was like, that's bigger than a bobcat just walking through, like grazing. And then in the whole living room area, this massive bird cage.

And he walks by this cage. all of a sudden he just like turns to the cage and he's like hoogie hoagie hoagie hoagie and he's like yelling at this like massive like fucking falcon or whatever that's in this and then and then we walk in and then in the kitchen there's like just like terrariums of like with lizards and then there's like two big ones and he's like heaven and hell and then like on the top there's like a white lizard and there's a black lizard and he's like here's my He's my reptile manager. And I was like, what's up, Miles?

Oh, right. Like, let's go down in the basement. And then we went down in the basement. Oh, my God. That's hysterical. He was amazing. And this was like a week before shooting. Hogi, hoagie.

And he was off book on the entire script. It's just on his feet rehearsing. I was like, that's where you're fucking in the cage. Dude, that is fucking genius. Um, did I love? And lastly, what was it like working with Gary Elman? I mean, the best. Yeah, I love working with Gary.

He's, uh, yeah. He's silly too. He's very silly. We laughed a lot, like, particularly on Robocop, because there we had like a very intimate relationship in the characters. We were in it together, you know, for months. Um, on Child 44, we actually didn't have that many scenes together. So we were just, uh, yeah.

No, I love working with Gary. all mankind uh the detective hole which when i first heard the detective hole i thought maybe what kind of movie is this yes but it what kind of show is this but it's it's fucking great doesn't translate that well dude i'm in i am in um i saw the trailer for uh imperfect women and it looks great and your character looks great i can't wait to see what you bring and yeah because those those actors they're all great yeah it's it's a super polished fun show uh i'm pumped for you man you're on obviously a great, great dude. And thanks for being so open and honest.

Like, you know, I think it will help a lot of people hearing about shit that you grew up with and the eating disorder and things like that. That helps people. It really does out there. They listen and because, you know, it's just, it makes you more human, you know, because I appreciate it, man. I appreciate you. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Yeah, that's great. You come back sometime? Yeah, for sure. Is that a promise? Yeah, for sure. I think my girlfriend would like that. Thanks, Ben. Cool.

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Travel back in time with us and actually travel with us at westjet.com slash 30 years. I thought that was a really great interview. I love how he opened up. I love his Nick Cage impression. The story. That story was a riot. Thanks, Joel, for being on. Hopefully you'll come back soon.

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