Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - JOHN BARROWMAN: Full Transparency, Reclaiming Control & the Fan Who Saved His Life

Episode Date: September 23, 2025

John Barrowman (Doctor Who, Torchwood) joins us this week for a transparent conversation about the facts and fiction of his contentious actions on set in the past and the dangerous fallout as a result of it in the present. John owns up to his actions while reflecting on how this period of time lead to some dark thoughts and plans; one of which was avoided thanks to a Cameo from a fan. We also talk about his evolution as a control freak, his feeling of betrayal from cast mates, and the idea of paying forward ‘good luck’ to those in need. Thank you to our sponsors: 🏠 Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com/ 🍽️ Factor: http://factormeals.com/inside50off 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🚀 Rocket Money: ⁠https://rocketmoney.com/⁠ (tell them we sent you!) ❤️ This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/inside and get on your way to being your best self __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you so much for listening to the show for all these years. And I was just at a convention signing autographs in Chicago. And there's so many people who tell me how much the episodes help and the podcast, how much it helps them. And it means a lot. I never thought this journey would be about mental health, about, you know, trying to get through things, facing adversity. and my guests opening up, they've helped people so much. They've helped me.

And thank you for listening. So thanks to all my patrons for supporting the show for so many years. And if you want to continue, please do. Please write a review. If this is the first time and you're just here for John Barrowman and you never heard of me, that's cool. But look, let's make a deal. If you love the episode and you're like, that was subscribe, follow us and start listening

to episodes. of the podcast that would be amazing a few things before we get into it if you want to join patron it's p a t r e o n go to patreon.com slash inside right inside of you of you patron dot com slash inside of you i think it's maybe whatever inside of you and uh join give back uh i always say this is like a streamer you know it's like people pay subscriptions well this is free so if you're liking it And you want to throw something to the show, it truly helps. And there's so many great perks. I talk about it all the time, but I send boxes to people in the top tiers with a bunch of goodies and a note by me.

Of course, I put the box together. I write the note. And there's so many other perks. Being on the show is a perk. You could actually be on the podcast. So take a look at that. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you. And thank you.

A few more other things. The Instagram. My Instagram is at the Michael Rosenbaum. Go to my link tree for cameos and all the cons I'm going to, the Smallville Cruz, Cincinnati, Liverpool. Also, Rosie's puppy fresh breath for your doggies. If your dog's breath is crap, smells like crap, all you do is put a cat full in your dog's water in the morning and it's odorless tasteless. Your dog won't even know that they're having great breath as they lick their water. Lick their water? I guess they drink their water. Lap. They lap it up. They lap it up. The Inside of You online store has a bunch of special Smallville stuff along with Inside of You merch, ship keys, Lexmus scripts, pilot scripts, autographed by me, lunchbox is signed by me and Tom, and much, much more.

So check that out. The Inside of You online store, I usually have discounts. Sometimes I have discounts for those patrons or folks who want to get some stuff. And another cool thing is my book. The Talented Farter that's on Amazon, my real farts, it's a sound book for kids and adults, a great birthday gift, but they're going to do a Latin version. So my book will be able, it would be in Spanish. Oh, in Espioniaiaia. What did I say?

He's in Latin. Oh, I thought. Latin America will be in Latin America. Claribus, Unum. Yeah, not in Latin. Oh, my God. What, what's, could you imagine? Talent Titus. Quad, no, me, he asked.

I have no idea That's cool though Yeah I'm very pumped about it I just want to say I had an absolute blast in Chicago It was spectacular We had a smallville con It was all smallville actors We did Q&As and we did a smallville nights

With me and Tom that we do at all the cons And there were like 270 people at smallville nights And it was just It was exciting And Ryan was there Ryan signed his first autograph, took his first picture, and people were asking you for your autograph. It was fun.

It was cool. It was very heartwarming. I loved, I, part of my being is I have always, what makes me happy or I have more fun when I see other people having fun. So when I see you having fun and you enjoying something, it truly, I swear to God, may I drop dead, it makes me happier. It does. It makes me like, I just, I like it.

If you're having fun, then I'm like, great. This is so. And I was having fun, so thank you. Yeah, it was awesome, man. So thank you. And look, let's dive into this. We've got a great episode. John Barrowman came on like a year or two ago, and we had to just cut the episode because he felt

like he talked about too much stuff. It was too early and a lot of stuff that happened in his life. And I was like, okay, I've never had to do that before, but we just axed the episode. And then he came up to me at a con, practically in tears and so wonderful, and said, I really want to come back on and I really want to talk this time. And if you'll have me. And I said, absolutely. And so he came on and we had a wonderful conversation. And here it is.

Let's get inside of John Barrowman. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael. Rosenbaum You don't take notes Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum Was not recorded in front of a live studio audience I mean, if you're here, you'll...

Yeah, if I'm here, it helps. That's the kind of thing that bothers me That worries me when I go to a restaurant And they take an order And then they don't write it down And they go, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, and maybe 50% of the time, it works. Yeah.

But the other 50, they always get something wrong. I'm not saying you're going to get something wrong. Also, you know, when they do that, it gives me anxiety because they're like, I go, yeah, I'll have a hamburger, you know, no bun, no tomato. And they're like, yeah, yeah. And then they go to the next person's order and it's a bunch of shit. I'm like, how are you remembering mine? You're, you're fucking this up. I'm an actor and I can't remember what I just ordered.

You know what I mean? It's a little bit, yeah, little things. stress me out. Things that are out of my control, like I can't, I can't tell her to write. No, I want you to write it down. I've come to the kind of realization. Just let, don't worry about it. If it's wrong, tell them it's wrong. If it, if it's right, celebrate it. But don't like freak. Don't, no, right, but don't freak out about it. Do you think you freak out way less now? Yes. You're older. Were you just like, did you ever, were you a control freak? I still am a control freak, but I've learned to let it not control as much.

Like, do you catch yourself? Yes, all the time. And my husband will look at me and go, he gives me this face. And I'm like, what are you doing? He's like, you're controlling again. And I'm like, I know, but I'd rather be honest about it than pretend I'm not doing it. Yeah. And if I'm honest about it, I know I'm being controlling, but I just want to get, it's always

when I want to get something done. Right. I want to do something, or if it's not getting done quick enough and it's going to cost more money. Right. I'm like, can we do it this way now? Oh, so you're good about sort of seeing into the future how things are going to turn out. Well, I was a time traveler, so. Ooh, Doctor Who reference.

There you go. See? See that in there. No, I, yeah, but I guess it's not seen into the future. It's just, for instance, we're renovating our house in South Wales. on the beach. It was meant to be done. It could have been done about a month ago, but I allowed other people to do their thing and do it. And I wasn't getting involved because I thought I'm going to let them do it. But when I went back a couple of weeks ago, I specifically had to get

a cabinetry. I had to get certain tiles. I had to do stuff, right? So I went in and went, pop, pop, pop, pop, done in like three days. And they were all like, didn't expect to get it done that and I'm like, okay, it's taken too long. This needs to be done in a month. And did they do it? And it's, well, this is the month. This is the month. This is the month.

Are you checking in with them? No, I made the statement because the guy who's our contractor, he laughs at me and he says, he, he, uh, with my husband, who's the architect and they have this kind of like relationship, which is like the buddy relationship and I'm, and I'm the bad guy. Right. I come in and he always says, Florian's his name and he says, I always want to make John happy. And I'm like, okay, just get it done. Yeah. Do your job. I don't want it to cost

10 times as much. No, I try not to micromanage, but I have a propensity for doing that. But it's hard. It's really hard because I know that I'm like, I know this, unless I do this, unless I say something now and then say something, it's not going to get done. Now, that being said, with Jason, my editor, I almost never, ever, I'll just say, hey, we need to cut this out of this. Done. I don't normally harass you, right? No. But if someone's good at what they do?

Exactly. That's a big difference. If they're good at what they do and they're confident and they do it right. Then you're confident in them. Correct. Let them do the job. And I've always said for when I work with people or when people work for me, I've said, look, if there's a problem, you don't try to hide it.

If something goes wrong, tell me. me let's sort it out we'll fix it i may not be happy about it but we'll get it sorted and then we'll move forward yeah it's when people are afraid i don't know to speak up yeah to speak up and to do things or it's ego i don't want to i it wasn't my fault this happened i'm like well oh you know what i'm talking about when people don't take responsibility for what that kills me when people can't admit to doing something wrong like i have an agent and this agent i'll say say, well, you know, why wasn't this there where it was supposed to be? And they'll go, oh, well, they messed up. And they go, they do that. They forget that. I go, no, you were meant to read

the contract. It's never happened before. So why wasn't it in there? And immediately, well, it's like, well, I'll tell them. I'm like, no, it's you. But no, I, and that pisses me off. There's something about being humble. It's when someone says, you know what, that was my bad. I let that slip. I have so much more respect for them. Yeah. That they do it three times. They're fired. But now you, you've had an illustrious career. You really have. I mean, you've done, nonstop work. You're the kind of guy that has to work, though, don't you? Do you go crazy if you don't go work, if you were not working? I used to. It used to be a thing where I always had to be busy. I always had to be doing something, had to have something on the next, the burner next to me.

and so that when I was done with this, I could go to the next thing. Yes. My husband says, Scott, he says, I'm a nightmare if I'm not busy or doing something. But I've actually come to enjoy kind of sitting and watching television and having some chips. Yeah, I have too many chips. I have a lot of popcorn every night. Yeah, but that's okay. Popcorns, have you had your appendix out?

No. not your appendix um what's is it your appendix yeah appendicitis no i haven't had okay eating popcorn apparently can can trigger an appendicitis are you serious well so i'm told because the colonel's it's the only thing i really do i don't have an addiction to alcohol or drugs the kernels get caught in the little bits and bobs and your appendix is part of it's part of your intestine isn't it yeah you're telling me it's off the side i think now i'm gonna eat a lot you know i've made a commitment to myself no don't panic because you're going to panic about eating popcorn no don't have anxiety about eating popcorn i mean i use olive oil okay so it'll go right through you

all right so working but now you're saying you're not working as much well no i'm still doing stuff but it's not yeah i'm not working as much as i did consistently consistently and like every day going to some god no no no no no not as much no because i i read a lot because i know you know you went through a shitstorm with everything that happened yeah it was a shit storm yep we can you talk about that but like I just feel we'll get to that well it's you know we talk about it now can I can I just be up front and say something right a hundred percent you and I sat and did this earlier we did a couple about two years ago yes when it was starting yes and I want to say to you how grateful I was that you wanted to talk about it and you wanted to bring me in to hear my side

however yeah I was in a very bad place yes and I went home from that, from us talking and doing the podcast. And I went home and I went back to Palm Springs. And I think I let it sit for maybe 24 hours, 48 hours. And I was, I was in a very bad place. Yes. And I called you on the phone and I asked you if we could scrap it. And I said, you know, I didn't say do it. I don't know if I remember if I said we would do it again. I just said scrap it because I've said some things. I said some things and I reviewed what in my head, I was angry. I was so angry. And it came out not the way you wanted to. Came out not the way I wanted to, but also I didn't feel I was representing the situation as it was

and also how I was and how it was affecting me. It just was, and then I saw you at a con. You were so sweet. You came up to me and you just put your hands on my shoulder and said, hey and you said i'm sorry and i know we had to scrap the podcast but i want to come back i'm ready yeah i want to do this yeah and it was just it was so it was beautiful well i appreciated that you did what you said you would do yeah which was honor that there's not many people that would do that a hundred percent i i i'm not here to make someone look bad i i if someone wants me to cut something out if somebody doesn't feel comfortable i what am i getting from that yeah no i but i But I wasn't, I wasn't worried about looking bad.

I was worried about, I just didn't like how I sounded. And from that point after, there was, it's been about two years. Right. And within that, as soon as that happened, I went, I tanked. I tanked. Yeah, because, you know, I'm sure if you're watching John, you could look up there. Obviously, there was some stuff, your behavior on sets in the past years ago and things that you thought were playful. Which I talked about.

Which I wrote about. What you wrote about. Yep. And people use the word now. They're like allegations were made. There were no allegations. None. It happened.

Yeah. I'm fully transparent that I did silly things. When I was doing nude scenes, I was making myself comfortable and doing stuff. Yeah. Other people were laughing and everybody was involved in joyful. But then one person or someone. No one complained. No.

No. It was an article that was written about somebody else who had allegations against them, which I don't want to bring all that up. But they mentioned a story that I had told numerous times, and they kind of like the fish that you catch, it got bigger and bigger and bigger as people started repeating the stories. And it blew up into something that was not factually correct. Right.

And people didn't care about that. whether it was factually correct. No, they just lambast. They did. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

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monitoring, or just a VPN. ORA gives you all of it together. At the same price, competitors charge for just one service. Start your free trial today at ORA.com slash secure. Protect yourself now at Aura.com slash secure. And all of a sudden, it was on the 3rd of May 2021 that the article came out, and that was the day I say that my world collapsed around me. Now, I'm saying right off the bat here, I don't want your sympathy. I am not doing this to say, poor me, poor me, because I'm, I did what I did. what upsets me the most and where I am now and able to talk about it in a kind of calm

manner, the silence that happened. The silence was deafening from cast members, from friends, literally overnight, everything turned around. People were dropping me from things left, right and center. I do know that there was an email sent out because someone from one of the productions that I was working for contacted my agent and said, we have been told to drop him. Otherwise, we lose our licensing fee for merchandise and all that kind of stuff. Not even the, you know, and I'm just going to say, the BBC never came to me to ask anything. Right. They just literally shut it all down.

now behavior then you'd never behave that way now I would never behave like that now right the world's different world is different however it's the kind of the entitlement of people who think they can bring things up that was already out in the open and change the narrative right and destroy some that's defamation well it's defamation but you can't say defamation if you if I mean again I've talked to lawyers about it. The way things were worded by the press and things like that, you couldn't fight it. Because I said, I was silly. I did stuff. You know, you look back like on threes, not three's company, Mork and Mindy. Yeah. And Robin Williams used to run across the stage in front of everybody naked. Oh my God. It wasn't sexual. It was just ridiculous physical comedy. And it was like,

yeah, that's that. And no one on set ever said, like, they're like, he's just a child. he's like he's a child he's like it's not sexual it's not making me feel uncomfortable but again times have changed yeah i'm not saying right or wrong it's just to destroy someone's career for something that you know and i think what hurts you the most is in your mind you know exactly what you were doing and how you felt and how non-sexual it was well the thing so it's like being punished for something in your mind you really didn't think you did anything wrong well that's the big thing um it it might it might have been a little silly and stupid to do it but i what the words that they used and continue to use online that really i'm well they upset me to a certain extent but

you know people can talk and they're allowed to say what they want but when they tried to say i was a sexual pred that's just ridiculous that's wrong when they tried to call me a pita wrong there was all the different words and all the labels they tried to put on me I did it for stupidity and for fun to make people laugh. And even when I was doing nude scenes in the show, which were written, and I was never asked if I wanted to do them or not. And in those days, you do it.

You do it because you think you'll lose your job if you don't, because there's all that thing they talk about. Now, power dynamic, we can talk about that in a second. But I just thought, okay, I've got to do this. And then sometimes to save time, rather than going back to my trailer every 10 minutes between takes to put a new little socky thing on, I just said, look, just let me stand there naked.

Now, maybe that was my big mistake in doing that because comments were made by producers and by show runners and all that kind of stuff that when I was naked on set, the office cleared out and everybody came down because they knew they were going to have a laugh and they're like, John Bowerman's naked on set, let's all go down and watch. Now, is that right?

It doesn't, I'm not asking you to say, yeah or nay. It's rhetorical. It's rhetorical. But what I'm saying is that there's all these, maybe the stupid things that I did were to make myself feel comfortable in that situation to have a laugh. Now, I have firmly said always, and I'm saying it here, the no one, apparently with the, when the newspaper has asked,

the producers and all the other people who are the heads involved, they said they had no complaints. There was no complaints. So I've always said, if anybody was offended, upset, or complained, please come to me because I will come to you personally, and I will apologize to you. But nobody's come, no one come forward. It's almost like, in a way, and how many years was that prior? 15 years ago, 15 to 20 years ago. So it's almost like 15 years later, you know what? He did that. And that was, that wasn't right. And I'm going to write about that. And I'm going to write about that.

That's what it was. Again, I've said this before. And I've thought about it a lot. They couldn't get me for being gay. They couldn't get me for a lot of other things. So because I'm, you know me, I'm very, I'm an open book. Yes. So they had to find a way to get me. Yeah. And this was the way that they chose to try to demolish what to demolish me. Yeah. And you were clinically depressed by this. Clinically depressed. I was suicidal. Um, I actually at time, I drove out to the desert quite a few times to figure out how I was going to do it. You really went that far yes i went that far did scott know anything no i didn't tell anybody what is going through your mind when you're driving out to the desert and you're sitting there and you're looking at the sky

and you're contemplating this you're not looking at the sky you're looking at the dashboard of the car and you've got your head your head in your hands and you're thinking how am i going to get out of this i don't see myself coming out of this and you're you're looking you don't see what's around you you're just focused on where you are at that moment. And I'm thinking, can I drive the car into something? Can I pull into traffic and go head on into something? Can I drive it off the edge of a cliff? Unfortunately thing, I've got a Tesla.

It'll stop. That was the, that was the gag line in the back and that. But anyway, I did that quite a few times. And then I would, something would. Click? Well, no, I told the person this story. And I actually said to the person, I met the person. They ordered a cameo from me.

Oh. And I was out there contemplating it. And the came through. And I did the cameo because they wanted someone to help them feel better and do all this stuff. And I don't like to disappoint people. And I did the cameo. And they met me later at a con and they said, that cameo you did for me in the desert, in your car, all that stuff. And I went, can I tell you something?

that you ordering that cameo pulled me out of that moment because I was thinking about killing myself at that moment. Oh my God. And their face. I can see how you're emotional now thinking about it. Their face just dropped. And I said, so you're thanking me for doing that for you. I'm thanking you for ordering that cameo because I turned around after it and I went home. And I'm not saying this was the exact moment, but there was another day maybe that I came back and having gone through it again. And I actually was hitting my head on the countertop in the kitchen. And Scott came home and he's like, what the hell are you doing? I said, I can't take any more. I can't. And that was when I told him I was having these moments of going out and thinking about it and thinking about killing myself and

that's the only way I could see out of it. Wow. And part of me, you know, I think the group of people who continue to attack, because they still do. They're always going to, and I'm, I'm, I'm past it now. I don't read the comments. Sometimes I do just to wind them up to answer them back now, but, uh, because you have to. Because you have to. But they're, the thing that, uh, having gone through it and, and, uh, that group of people, it's like, they're so worried about mental health and about, you know, having their

mental health be okay and they, how dare you. you say this to me, it's ruining my mental, well, how dare you? What gives you the entitlement to think you again can do that to destroy somebody? You're preaching about mental health and you're destroying somebody else's. It's a, it's a, it's a, it's a vicious cycle. It's ironic. It's very ironic. Yeah, man, it's just, it's, because I've been, I've been there. I've had some dark moments where it's amazing how other people's perception or a Like you, it's not, what you feel is so much bigger. Your mind makes it just enormous.

Like this is, this is worth taking my life. And if you really look at, you know, because you forget like, I mean, what are we here for? We're not here that long. Life goes by it so fast. It's cliche. We know it. I know I'm here to entertain people and make people happy.

And that was stripped away from me and I couldn't deal with it. Yeah. I couldn't handle it. But then you had a revelation, I'm sure, that you could still make people happy. And you will make people happy. It was going to speak to somebody. It was being honest about how I felt. It was coming to terms with the situation.

It was no longer dealing with anger. It was, I had to kind of flip it and understand. And I know people are thinking going, what did you have to understand? It's none of your business. I had to understand. I'd figure it out. And for me, it was about the disappointment and the lack of support from cast members, from, you know, friends, from production, uh, from companies that I had helped build and made a lot of money for who literally within 24 hours just gone. Gone. Gone. And they were there laughing. They were there enjoying the fun.

They were, you know, and it was one point, at that point, when I got to that really bad, dark spot, and I, you know, Scott was, we were trying to figure out, I was going to therapy. I was talking to somebody about it. But actually, Scott had to call and beg some people to come out and publicly say, knock it off. And those were cast members. He had to beg them. Wow. To come out and say it. Are there any cast members or any people from your past who were there? Yes. Yes. There were, and I don't want to like, you don't have to list them. No, no, I'm not going to list them because, again, it's, I'm not here to go, me, me, me, that kind of stuff. But it was, there were cast members, yes, who from Torchwood, from Arrow, who were right there and going, this is ridiculous. But there were also cast members from Torchwood, from Doctor Who, who just said nothing. And it bled into our world, our convention. world to the aspect of that I would go to conventions. And some convention promoters, again, wouldn't have you. Wouldn't have me. But the people who I'd always done photo ops with, you know, duos, signings and all that kind of stuff and done the panels with, all of a sudden that whether it was their reps who were saying, don't do it, don't do it with them. But

they did not have the guts to stand up and say, this is ridiculous. We're going to have him still. So that was the disappointment. And that's interesting because I have always been that person. If you called me, anytime even in these two years that we haven't really spoken, or you called me in six weeks and said, I need help with something, I'm there for you. I am there. And what upset me most was that people who I would have been there for at the drop of a hat were not there. wasn't something like you were convicted there were these allegations that were you know people were bringing you to court there were like it was an article right it was an article yeah

and these people are jumping on the fuck barrowman well but also they're creating things that never happened i know exactly what happened i know exactly what i did and like the other day someone said I left polaroids all over set of pictures of my genitals for people to see. That's an absolute lie, right? But, you know... It was my genital. That's why I know you're telling the truth. Oh, hi, buddy.

Who's the best you are? I wish I could spend all day with you instead. Uh, Dave, you're off mute. Hey, happens to the best of us. Enjoy some goldfish cheddar crackers. Goldfish have short memories. Be like goldfish. During the Volvo Fall Experience event,

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And, you know, you get special shoutouts every week. There's tons of stuff. Your support really keeps this podcast alive. So jump in and be a part of what makes inside of you special. Well, there's someone who has a ton of allegations in this, and they're cleared and all that. But, you know, people would say to me, it's like, oh, my friend, and I go, I hung out with this person many times, been on sets, this and that. I'm, from my experience, I've never seen this. I've never seen this.

So I'm not saying you're lying. I'm just saying that I've never seen this. And you don't know the person near as well as I do. So, you know, it's, I think, I think things are getting better. they are you know whatever happened to being kind and forgiving and and and uh you know letting people have second chances and but it's not it's even about that it's it's it's you know the it's a certain group of people right right right right it's a certain minority group of people who are creating the issue very small and they're the ones who are creating the problem and

they're the ones again who weren't there who know nothing about it i mean because i could open up and say, let me tell you what so-and-so did. Let me tell you who had an affair with who, who was, you know, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, we're talking about that whole people come and say, well, you were the lead in the show. You had the power dynamic. People maybe didn't want to say anything. Hold on a second. Let's just rewind a little bit. The power dynamic, that is, you know, I didn't even look at it that way. Yeah. Look at it that way. No, it was about silly fun. But, you know, there's other aspects of that. it just reminds me of, like, when we were,

the power dynamic thing, we would be asked to work for free, free at times by production. They'd come and say, can you give us an hour? Can you give us a half an hour? And, you know, people are saying, well, why, you know, if you did the nude scenes, why did you bother doing them? Because you felt like you had to do them

because it was written in the script. Because when we were one time asked about working for an hour overtime for nothing, and I would go around the cast and the company and say, do we want to do this guys to finish? And everyone would then say, yes. So again, I was basically in a way being used to make that decision. But I didn't see it that way as being used. I was doing it because I felt we wanted to get it done.

However, there was one night where I said, because one of the cast members came to me and they said, it's my anniversary with my wife. I don't want to work. So I then said to production, no, we're not going to do it. And the next day, I got cleaned for how dare you stop production. I mean. So there's a lot of stuff that went on that wasn't right. Right.

You know, that people did and it was silly and or fun and blah, blah, blah. Can we just move on? Yeah. I'm like, can we just move on from it now? Yeah. And I, but do you feel like, you definitely feel like it is going in a different direction? Do you feel like, you know... I just did a concert tour in the UK.

Great. And the thing that I've noticed and learned, again, that minority, brush them aside. And now that it's happened, it's always going to be there. And I have to accept that. And I have to deal with that. And anything I put online, for instance, when this goes up, there's going to be comments. Of course there are. And I'm ready for that. And also, I'm not going to read them. I've said my piece and I've moved on. And I'm probably not going to talk about it much anymore if I'm asked or if I'm challenged by it, then I'll, but I'm ready to speak up and push back. Are you sorry for your behavior from the past? But when to say I'm sorry for the behavior in the past, I didn't do it any way malicious. I didn't do it to harm anybody. Right. I didn't do it to make anybody feel bad. But do you think it was wrong? I think it was probably deft and dumb of me to do it. I wouldn't do it now. I think that is completely understandable. I mean, I remember showing my butt going, hey, guys, check it out. My ATM won't work with the ATM swipe.

Done it. With the, with the, with the, with the, with the crew guys. Let me check your, let me check your credit. And I used to hang out with the crew guys. We go out for beers. JD did Coke. I didn't. But it's like, you know, somebody could say he showed his ass.

And I was like, oh my God, are they going to come after me? It scared me. When I read all this stuff, I just started going, my dad goes, there's something I'm going to come out. You want to go, no, I never. I never know, maybe. See, that's the thing. I never had that thing in the back of my head that I'd done anything really wrong

that something was going to come out. Yeah, I never thought of either too. But then that comes out and you're like, wait a minute, 15 years ago, everybody was laughing. They came down to see it. I was just goofing. I was trying to be, they've seen your shows where you dress up like a woman and you do stupid things and you bring that to real life.

And it's just your personality because a lot of people who know you know you're harmless and you're you know so it's it's you know again i i wasn't there i didn't work with you the one thing the one thing that i didn't want to want to happen and granted my decisions on certain things that i will do now will be different decisions however this whole thing of i was one of the people in the past who was fighting for the rights so that a lot of people today are able to be their their true selves and what they're trying to take away from me is the the the silliness and the fun that I have in me, and I did not want that to change me.

So I had to figure out a way that I could still keep that without what happened destroying who I am inside. And I think I figured it out. I think I figured it out. That makes sense. No, it does. Do you, I, you have to think that

your agents could call the BBC or call these productions. No, I was dropped. What about for auditioning for movies and shows? No. It's very hard to get him because what they do now is they go on Wikipedia and Wikipedia is not controlled. And if you have anything that pops up there, anything controversial, you're fucked. Yes. Or, but there are some people who are going, this is ridiculous now. They're saying this is

outrageous. We know him. We're going to see him. It's starting to come around. And right, you know what? I may never work as much as I did before. But what I said earlier is I decided I'm going to get back to do what I do best, and that is perform and make people happy. So I started my friend, well, he's more like a son to us to Scott. And I've known him since he was 19 when I did one of the TV shows for the BBC where we were looking for a Joseph with Andrew Lloyd Webber in London. And we were, all these guys were trying to, you know, they're singing and they're doing their stuff and wanted the lead role. Keith, Jack, who I call him Weifosh, he was 19. And there, I kind of championed a minute, but we've stayed in touch and I've kind of mentored him.

He now is producing and he came to me and he said, you need to get back on stage. And I was frightened. I was scared. I didn't know if I wanted to do it. I said, but if I do this, I got to do it on my own terms. I got to be able to talk about what I want to talk about. So we called the show Laid Bear and I did a journey from, you know, still telling my stories, fun stuff, doing all this stuff, but then there was a point in the show where I did a recording of the song, Skyscraper, going and try to tear me down. I will be rising from the ground like a skyscraper, you know, and I sang that and in between it, I couldn't tell it without, because sometimes you can't say, you know, I use a line, sometimes it's hard to talk about something,

but if you write it down, it's easier to read it. So I read it, and I read the whole thing, interjecting with the music, and I told my story and my side of what it happened. And, you know, I talked about suicide. I talked about everything. And people were stunned. So I did it. And because of that, I realized after doing that show, and I'm truly grateful to Keith for doing that because it put me back to where I knew I needed to be, the audience is still there. The fans are base is still there. Isn't that something? And that is totally something. So for all those people who don't want to put me in a gig and put me on a show and do all that, or cons or whatever, you're missing out. Because I finished that tour and immediately all the theaters in the UK came to me

and said, we want him back. Can he give us a Christmas show? So I'm writing that now. Oh my God. And then they're also saying, can he do something in the spring in the fall of next year? So I'm doing a complete, I haven't really talked about this yet. So you're getting the scoop. on it. I'm doing a show that is all musical theater stuff. So that's where you thrive. Yeah. So that's that in a way is the kind of the light. There's that light at the end of the tunnel and that light is just getting a little bit bigger and bigger. And I've just had a conversation with one of the big con companies because I went to them because they brought me back and I was appreciative of it. And how are the fans?

Fans are great. They were all there. Listen, listen, the people who don't like me and the people who are the ones who say all the shit about me, they're never going to come and see me in a Conner's show, they're not going to buy a ticket.

So I'm not bothered about them anymore. They can say what they like online, but they're not going to come and see who I am, John Barrowman. They're going to bitch about me. And you can bitch all you want because you know what I do? Delete, delete, delete,

move forward. Yeah. you've got a big mouth and you're very confident you know sitting in your parents basement or the back room on a computer keyboard with your emoji as your face because you won't show your face and what you say and they keep writing they keep why are they oh and it's the same it's the same people all the time it's like why are you obsessed with me why I don't I don't understand why don't it's almost like if you don't like something you go this sucks and then you move on done so it's kind of an obsession maybe

it's an obsession with you probably and that's why i said in the beginning it's uh uh they had no other way there to get me so they're just hounding on it but i'm moving on yeah i'm doing the concerts and uh i've also spoken with the a large convention company because i want to bring the show to the states and what a better way to do it than attach it to a con so like on a Friday night, I'll do, you know, let's say laid bear, John Barrowman laid bear, and then on Saturday I'll sign and Sunday I'll sign. You know what I kept envisioning when you're doing laid bear? I was thinking it would have been awesome in the middle of it if you're kind of going through your life and whatever, just to walk out completely naked in front of the audience.

No, honestly, honestly, there's nudity. You tell them there's nudity. They go see it. They're not, they're not shocked and you're like and then walk off stage get back in your clothes continue the show almost like this was a part of my life i'm doing it for a laugh and you're laughing listen you said it i would love to hear the comments from my fan base they would they have loved that i somehow think they probably would have but i but it's all in good fun i know but i wasn't trying to make it sensational right right i wanted to tell the truth i wanted to tell my story i wanted to lay it out lay it bare on stage. That was the concept. There was a picture of Scott and I that I was going to post about it, post, you know, to pre-show all kind of stuff to kind of generate a little bit of

excitement for it. Scott and I, by the swimming pool, we're laying on a faux fur blanket, and it's just me laying there, you know, I don't have a swim trunks on. Scott's sitting next to me, and then we've got Keith, ironically, in the background, pretending to be our pool boy. But I never posted it. maybe one day i will yeah i mean ultimately you're going to come out i mean i mean that was a long time ago but no you our personalities always shine they always you you have to show the world who you are and you have for so long and so if this kind of hindered you for a while and kind of kept you quiet and made you angry and did all this the world still wants to see all the talents that you bring. Yeah. So that will, that has to come out. Yeah. And it's, uh, just deciding how I want to do

it. Yeah, yeah. And I have, but I have decided. I mean, I've, I'm, I'm, I am moving forward to do it and that's the thing. I'm not going to, you know, quote the song. I'm not going to go on to try to tear me down. I'm going to rise from the ground. And what do you think, honestly, I know that fan sent you a cameo and all that stuff but what do you think deep down made you realize that this isn't the way was it it wasn't the cameo necessarily but it was just there is love out there there is hope i i also thought i couldn't how can i do this to my mom and dad oh how can i do this sorry you know no no how can i do it to scott how can i do it to the people who have supported me and stood by me. How could I do it to, you know, I have fan family. How could I, how could I do it to them?

I'm the one who stood there. I have it. I've had it. You know this. You know this when you're talking to fans. They come and they say things like, it's because of you. I didn't take my life because I see how you are and you motivate me and you give me strength. And then I'm sitting there going, I need that. I need that right now. But I've done that to you. So how can I, how can I do what I've deterred you from doing. Isn't that something? Wow. That's powerful.

That's what partly brought me to the realization and also being able to talk about it, to not feel any shame or guilt. And, you know, again, say what you like, but to not feel shame or guilt about talking how you feel, how you're, how what you've gone through, how something has affected you, it's it's good to do that i know it's a uh a what's the there's a phrase but it's good to talk it's a cliche but it is yeah it really is a therapy we talk about all the time talking to someone objectively and and just balancing thoughts and ideas and where do these come from and is this a real thought is this because a lot of times our thoughts aren't real and so we think we just

make things so much bigger than they are and it's like is it worth your life that you know No, it's, it's just not. And when I do a post now or something, you know, because we have to be involved in social media because it's part of our gig. It's part of what we do. But I also like doing it. I like, that's a way for me bringing people into my life that I don't get to show them, you know, on stage or at a con or in a TV show.

So I get to bring them into it. But when I, you know, say something where I, there's a couple of things I put there, about a suicide hotline, all that. So I, you know, I've, I don't know, it's, the experience that I've had wants to make you help people even more. Other people, yeah, because I also, at that point, I actually was trying to think, should I go to a clinic? Do I need to go to a, to book myself in somewhere to, to, to sort this out because do I need to take myself out of the, the, the public? The public or the line, not just the line, but just out. out of circulation and go away for a while and figure it out.

People do that. I did that. Yeah. I mean, but then in thinking about it, I thought I've got the emotional support around me and I've got people who are objective around me and my husband is the one who'll say, you're being stupid, or, no, I've got your back on this one. So that honesty also helps. And also, you know, Michael, I hate, I'd say this truthfully. I went through it all, but Scott went through it all too. He did.

Oh, yeah. He went through it all. You forget about the other, you know, people. I didn't think about that until after I was coming out of that light of the end of the tunnel. But he went through it all also and didn't say anything. He just took every, he let me go to him. And he, but he was there. He was going through it.

too he watched me go through it and he tells me now i saw you in your pain and i couldn't i couldn't i couldn't grab you i couldn't pull you out of it and and his pain you forget that when you're in the moment and you're it's just a one way sort of road it's like this is what i have to do i feel shame i feel embarrassment i feel disappointment i've let everybody down no one could love me no one could love this. And you just forget to just, hey, look at your rear view mirror for a second. Look, look at the side view. Oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, there's Scott. There's my folks. There's, there's my friends. There's my fans. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's, uh, well, the analogy I used, I was the car or the truck in front dragging the trailer behind me. Yeah. And it wasn't on the

hitch. It was the two chains attached to it. So it was going, and how long did that go on two two and a half years geez that's a long time every day and you feel it right here don't you every single day and i would go and i would go to bed anxious well i'd go to bed and i would i would lay i'd fall asleep i'd calm myself down and i would then fall asleep for about an hour two hours and i'd wake up at two o'clock in the morning and then i'd lay in bed and just mull over stuff and try to figure out and go through scenarios in my head of if i'd met this person again, how would I talk to them? And also the fact of actually seeing people and going up to them and talk, I do that, do it. Now, I don't feel this way now. I did then,

and during those two years of going up to people and talking and thinking, do you feel, do you dislike me? Or do you, you know, why are you just talking to me to be nice? Do you not like me anymore. So having all that in your head is just you got to clear it out. It's also by proxy, if this is the right terminology, the sense that if someone feels some way about you, people who know that person, then alienate themselves from you. Oh, so-and-so says this about him. I'm not talking to him anymore. Oh, they wrote an article about him. I'm not talking about him anymore. They're not even going to someone who they've known for so many years and they've liked and they love be careful with the word love love you because are you there are you going to give me the benefit

of the doubt you're going to listen to my side of the story you're just going to cost to ostracize me like everyone else the other the other phrase that i got a lot in which i and then you know and again scott was like don't say anything don't say anything just let it go was oh my god i didn't know that was happening to you. It was front page news. It was all over the internet. You're still going to cons. You know it was happening. Don't play stupid. I lost a lot of respect for people like that. How easy would it have been to just stand up and say, this is ridiculous. He's not that guy. He's not that guy. He's not a sexual predator. He's not this. He did it stupidly. He did something dumb and fun and silly and we all laugh you want more people to stick up for you yeah i guess i did

that's where the that's where the anger happened at first but now it's just i'm disappointed i think i think you know people were scared people were scared if i yeah no and i do i do realize that sorry no cut you off people are people were scared because they were afraid of what would have could happen to them because i'm just saying bluntly i'm i'm you know no one's got a clean slate No one. No. No. Yeah, it's scary.

It's scary to think that, like... But hopefully we're moving away from that culture. Yeah. Because I think the public have kind of gone, wait a minute. Why? Why have they done this? Why have we done this? Summer's here, and you can now get almost anything you need for your sunny days delivered with Uber Eats.

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what got you watching inside of you so um you know basically it was i had never really listened to podcasts or had followed much um was you know out of the youtube videos this stuff like that but i went to a phase of my life where i'd gotten separated actually and um so i count all of a sudden, I had a lot of free time, and I was just, you know, when it wasn't working, I just wanted to kind of relax and, and, you know, enjoy content, if you will. And I had actually started with a wrestling cast from going back to my youth and, you know, hearing all the inside stories of the old days of wrestling. And I really got into that.

And then I started just checking out of the material, and I found yours. And it was just something while I was working, you know, just sitting around. I can listen to it and the conversations. It was interesting people and, you know, really enjoyed content. And, yeah, ever since then, I've been an avid follower of the podcast. Oh, I love that. Where do you live? I'm in London, Canada.

London, Canada. Wow. Yeah, I always say I love Canadians. They're very even keeled. And you work? I do. I do. I own a, I own and work as a CEO for an insurance, soft.

for a company, as well as a few other businesses, yeah. Is it stressful? No, you know what? I'm very blessed at company, Bifi 2 IQ that we started. And I've always been blessed in my career, work with great people and friends. And, you know, it's one of those things when you work with people that you enjoy around, and they're all smart people, and we get along great, and we build great things. I love that.

So I've just been lucky with that. So it's a great team. We meet every day. we actually just met for our daily meet. We all work from home. My wife works for the company, too. Nice. Oh, that could be difficult.

Working with the wife. She's in the basement. Well, I stay in the office. She stays in the basement. So it works so well. Do you ever get overwhelmed with work? Like, you know, we talk about mental health. And, you know, these are segments that, you know, hopefully, you know, respond to just, you know,

normal folks that are just like working like everybody else. and, you know, is there something you do to recharge or is there something when you know your stress that you do, or do you exercise? What is it you do to keep you going? I should be exercised. Unfortunately, no, I don't do that yet. But I think other than works, I'm a workaholic. So I work a lot, especially late at night, especially with having your own companies.

You've got to put in the effort, as you know. And, but, you know, it's the downtimeers. I've got four kids, four boys. and I'm very, very blessed where, you know, after this effort, I didn't get as much time with them, but now I see them almost every, pretty much every day and they live here. And so it's fantastic.

And, you know, we like to hang out. We'll have movie nights. We're the six of us just sit down and watch a movie. And we get through three years of a move. We're in the Borgon series right now. Oh, boy. And it's just fun. We like to, you know, we'll go out to different places.

We love going to the, going to the theaters, et cetera. They told you we saw Super Rand two weeks ago. Love it. You know, we love to. We love to fight that. So for me, it's about hanging out with them because it's, you know, you hear this all the time. But as they've gotten older, it becomes, I'm going to miss them.

Yeah. He starts to miss the younger, so I'm trying to enjoy as much time as I can while they're still want to be around me, you know. Yeah. Is there, is there a moment that you can remember? You don't have to. but on inside of you that stuck with you or helped you in any way that you were listening and you thought, oh, you know, this is kind of good advice or was there, do you remember anything?

I know one of the ones I found interesting from a more recent one was I'm really interested to listen to Tom Welling talk about, you know, his mindset when it came to, you know, how he interacted with people. And, you know, I tried to, to, you know, look at that from, from my other career perspective on how I interact with people. Because, you know, I've always been in very senior positions at companies that I've been at, even back in my 20s and on. And, you know, it became really mowed out in my age in just trying to relax on how I deal with people and how, you know, and taking ownership around, you know, what I'm responsible for. and, you know, making sure I, you know, I just trust people. And, you know, for a work perspective, trust the people I work with it.

Like I said, I'm blessed with now where I can. But, you know, I think I went through a lot of stress with that in my past, especially with larger teams reporting into me and, you know, in times of micromanagement and stuff like that. But, yeah, so there's been, you know, lots of little moments, but a lot of it makes me reflect on just how I act. in how I behave. I try to,

the people that know me now, it's, you know, wherever I go, whether it's the grocery store, they all know me there because I smile. I say, hi,

I, you know, you're a good guy, Kevin. You know me. But what's, what's one thing you wish people, more people understood about mental health?

I mean, is there, is there something that, you know, it's become sort of like, it used to be something that no one talked about, and now people are talking about it more, or more,

people are more open with their feelings. And, you know, my father comes from more of an old school where he doesn't talk about his feelings. He locks it up. And we know how dangerous that can be for people not to just be a little more open and just express themselves. You know, what do you do when you're upset? What do you do when you want to get something across that's bothering you? Or, yeah, what's one thing you wish more people understood about mental health? For me, I'll be a lot in my earlier days.

I didn't understand it. So me, it was always, I was very much, um, with my father and, uh, you know, some of the my grandparents, etc. It was very much, uh, suck it up and work through it. Uh, and, and I was, I, I think I, I inherited that kind of belief of it with, you know, if you got a problem, that's your, like, just deal with it. Um, and, uh, until you actually start to have problems and you start to experience. And I meant, for me, a key point sticks in my head is separation. And, you know, you've heard that expression, having that sinking feeling. And I had one for the first time of my life where I actually felt like I was, I was sitting in my car outside of my office.

And I just had a conversation with my ex. And, you know, it wasn't a positive one. And I felt like I was lowering into the ground. And I thought, oh, my God, this is, I have a problem right now that I need to deal with. And I don't know how. And, you know, I think the most important thing for me is, and especially with dealing with my kids now, is, you know, my immediate reaction to problems is, you know, first, I admit I'll sometimes get very frustrated, but then I try to always, I kind of settle down and try to explore, you know, with my kids right now, I talk a little time about it. Well, you know, here's my issue with what just happened, let's say, and about how you're feeling. like what was your issue oh see that's good so i still call them out on their crack but you also say you know i want to hear your perspective what a voice right and listening listening it was yeah

for me it was i don't think i spent enough time listening to people in the past um you know when when they did have problems or it's kind of yeah yeah we all got problems you know i get it yeah and now it's like yeah you know what it's there's a lot of bad times that happen to people and And we just need to support each other in whatever ways would help them feel support. And so that's more of what I try to do now. How can I support people? And, you know, I think in my, in my younger days, it was, well, you know, I support charities, isn't that financially. Well, that's, you know.

That's nice. Yeah. But also like taking the time to sort of, you know, what you're saying is, I think a lot of people don't do is like, it's not necessarily giving people the benefit of the doubt, but also saying, hey, you know, this is how I'm feeling right now. This is my perspective of the situation. Tell me yours because this is how I'm feeling. And so by listening, it's it's almost saying, hey, I care about what you think. I care about your problem.

I want to know how we could fix this because otherwise it's just like, just deal with your stuff and do your job or just do your stuff and do this. And it's, it's a very old school mentality, but it sounds like you've grown over the year. So that's great. I like to tell. But, you know, it's, it's, I wish I had, you know, realized this a lot earlier. But, but, but yeah, I mean, communication, obviously is the, is the biggest step on, on dealing with, with anyone and anything, quite frankly. It's always the, it opens up the conversation.

And it might not always be positive. Yeah. Be negatives to at least you're having that conversation. Yeah. Well, look, I really appreciate you coming on here and talk. talking openly. I feel like, you know, you've definitely grown. I could tell by someone who would never do this, would never talk about these things or never. And the fact that you got up here, you're brave and it's nice to hear. And I want to say thank you again because you supported the

band, Sunspin, my band. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. So we'll talk about that. Yeah, you're going to be a producer on the album. And I really appreciate all your support. Kevin, if you had one bit of advice to say to someone who's been in your shoes or someone who, um, you know, you, you could see a little bit of them and you, or you and them. What would, what would you say? What would that one thing be? Uh, you know, there's, there's two things that come by the one of the most important ones that I kind of learn, um, uh, more professionally is being able to say, I don't know when someone asked you a question. It's okay to say how, but from a personal perspective, it's, it's also okay to ask for help or to let people know what's going on in your head i think too many people

are afraid of what the reaction would be and i think these guys especially from friends and and family what what reaction they met if they were just more here's what's going on here's what's going on in my head and just being candid about it i think not trying to you know i think that's awesome i think that's just that's a that's a good step to take to and it's all about listening and i'm trying to understand each other and being kind and all that stuff. So thanks for being here. I appreciate. Thanks, Rudy. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned player or just starting,

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This is called shit talking with John Barrowman. These are my top tier patrons. Patron.com slash inside of you. And they're just going to ask you questions and you just answer them however you want. First thing that comes to mind. First thing that comes to mind. Okay. Flortatious B is the person's name. Both yours and James Marzger's takes on kissing each other are different and hilarious. Did you really mess some takes up just to have him do it again and mess with him? Yes. Good answer.

Yes. And his girlfriend, or was it his wife at the time? So correct me if I'm wrong, camera. If it was girlfriend or wife at the time she was on set. And, you know, James actually came up to me at one point. And he said, can you not kiss me so hard because your stubble is kind of rubbing. It's hurt in my face. I'm like, okay, no problem.

I'm always very conscious. of that. But I also knew the fan base. And listen, it was spike. For me, it was spike. It wasn't James. So I'm, I just thought it would be fun to do, you know, to fluff a few takes and have to do it again. And his girlfriend was, you know, was on set. She's like, I, this is wonderful. Oh, man. Little Lisa says, what qualities. I was always upset because on Smallville, they always cut my sex scenes. I'd work out. hard for two weeks. I looked sort of ripped, like a tenth of welling. And then they cut my sex scenes. And then I did a movie Urban Legend, cut my sex scene. So I'm starting to get this

image of myself, like, maybe I'm not very attractive when I'm making love. So now I do it in the dark. Best place to do it. Little East, so what qualities do you value in a person? This should be easy truth honesty loyalty um integrity integrity integrity and humor all those things in scott yes and he's pretty hot very he's very very i mean he's he'll kill me for saying this he's 62 is he yeah i never would have thought that 62 but he looks way younger than i do and when we're you know people are we're together they're like i'm like oh i'm 50 i'm 50 i'm the young one i'm gonna be 50 this year and they're like, uh-huh. Yeah. You look like, you look like you're 80. No, they don't. You look great. Listen, and the thing is we, you know, Scott's dad is 100 in January. His mother is 93. My dad is 93 and my mom is 91. All still here. You have good jeans, my friend. Mine are better than Calvin's. They are. Melissa M. Were you happy with how Torchwood ended or was there a way that you wanted it to end? Torchwood is not really, I guess you can say the BBC don't really finish things.

They leave them hanging or they just shelf it. I was happy with what was done because I know some people didn't like when we came to America and did it, but I was always happy that Torchwood was being made. You love doing it. I love playing Captain Jack Harkness. I just adore him. I adore what he stands for. I, if anything, he's a lot like me because he's compassionate to friends.

He's funny. He's flirtatious. He's silly. He is a control freak. He gets to the point. He has a group of people around him who follow him and love him. And, you know, he knows who he is. And that's one thing I know exactly is who I am. Would you play him again if you had a chance? At the drop of a hat. I would not question it. It's like when they asked me back when Jody Whitaker was playing the doctor, literally on the phone, they said, would you come back? And I'm like, yes. Yes. Heartbeat. Heartbeat. I love that. Linda M. How do you handle life's uncertainties and challenges? Life is not going to go the way that you are expecting all the time.

However, and I've used this analogy before, look at it like a, we call them sleeping policemen, the humps in the road. Are you going to stop your car and panic about it and freak out about it, which I have done before? Or are you going to slow down and go over it? or are you going to just get right over it and move on i'm kind of of the attitude now i'm not going to slow down and take a look around i'm just going to go foof and move on nico p who is someone that has a lasting impact on you's had a lasting impact on you that's a tough one um because i'm not ready for that question so i'm i'm having to think a bit the person the last person who's had a lasting impact on me. Okay, one thing popped to my head, and this is going back a little while because I'm

sure there are other people, but again, trying to think on my feet. There was a young person in a wheelchair who was not as mobile as everybody else. I'm not sure the correct words we use at the moment, so I'm just going to say that. And they came up to me, and they, it was after a show or something, or a convention, I'd done my panel, and they came up to me and they gave me a $2 bill. And I said, why are you giving me a $2 bill? And they said, because I want to give you luck. I'm giving you luck. And I went, oh. And I literally took a moment and went, shit. And I said, okay, I'm taking the $2 bill. Thank you for that. And do you know what I do now? I carry $2 bills around. If I go somewhere, go to a kind of whatever,

and if I feel that I'll give a $2 bill out to people. Really? Yes. Isn't that something? You're like, oh, yeah, hi. What? Take a drink. No.

Oh, you have a $2 bill? I'm just because I must have, I don't know if I've put it in the. I like your fanny pack. You have a $2 bill in there. Here. Really? I'll give me a luck. Oh, my God.

I just read somewhere where if you have a $2 bill, it could mean you're worth thousands. Well, can I tell you something? If that's worth millions, I want at least 10% or 50% of it. That's so nice to you. Because I haven't checked that. But that is, so you can keep it right here. That is, so you can keep it or you can pass it on. So I went and I got a wodge of $2 bills.

And what I give them to people, even if it's people that I know, they get, they well up about it. But you know what, John? This is my luck right here. This $2 bill is my luck. So I'm going to get other $2 bills to hand out luck. But if I get, I don't want to give away my luck because this is for me. So I'm going to give other $2 bills. That's what I did. I love that. It's amazing how you sit there and someone who, you know, can't walk, can't do the things that you love. They love and they want you to have luck. Correct. It's just something. correct there's there's a humanity and i wish i wish i knew their name angel was that the name angel well let's say it is uh teapaw 12 what is your go-to comedy film show for a mood boost

will you watch to just get you in a good mood well it's a musical and it's uh singing in the rain um because i i love jean kelly and uh if there was somebody that i've never really thought of myself as trying to mold myself or look like or be like somebody, but as I get older, I look back on my career in musical theater and in the West End and on Broadway, I wanted to be very much like Gene Kelly. So I love, and I just love the silliness of that movie.

Yeah. You know, it's the transition from silent films to talkies where, you know, you have someone behind the scene because the person who's actually in front of the camera, sounds like this. Oh my gosh. And the voice is not going to take. And you've got, you know, the other person behind doing the number.

So, yeah, the singing in the rain. If it was like stupid, stupid, comedy, dumb things, I'd have to say. And I'm going back to the airplane. Oh, airplane's so funny. Airplane. So funny. Joey, you ever been in a Turkish prison before? Joey, you have a dog?

What's his name? Scraps? You like it when scraps rubs up and down on your leg. I picked a bad day for this is a story. I picked a bad day to stop sniffing glue. I got to watch that again. And there's all those lines. I mean, they're just, they're just, it's like nonstop.

Bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum, bum. Oh my gosh. A plethora of one liner laughs. Stryker. Stryker. He just punches the woman in the face. That guy, that character. What was his name?

Do you remember the actor who played the gay guy? He passed away recently. did. Yeah. He was so good in that. Yeah, funny. So I don't know. Do I want to do it? And that was, but again, when I was in younger and see. Can make a hat? You can make it. Yeah, I was like, oh, that's a gay person knowing that I was gay. But that was, you know, those were the only images we had of people like that. I didn't know Paul Lynn was gay as a kid. I thought he was just a quirky, funny guy. I didn't know what gay was when I was a kid. Yeah. I can't even do Paul. I can you do his voice? He goes, uh, Paul, the queen dissolved members of parliament. Can you

you explain this well maybe she does magic tricks he would say oh that is so good this has been delightful it's just like i'm glad you got a chance to just like and i love how you started it out with i don't want your sympathy you just are telling your story yeah this is this is your side of the story and a lot of times we don't get to hear that no we don't get to hear how you felt what you went through the uh you know and and if you if you met a hundred percent a hundred let's say a hundred crew members that you've worked with how many people you think would be happy to see you a hundred of them the hundred percent would be because i do meet them when i go back to wales and i'm in wales i you know i still uh i still talk to them i still see them and they're

one of the things they say happiest time we ever had on set and how many times are there actors out there that if you ask a hundred crew guys, 50, 60 would say, dude's an asshole. Dude's a nightmare in set. Didn't even know our names. How many of those are there? That would say that to me? No. How many of those actors are out there? There's a lot. There's a lot. As you could, as I could, I could tell you their names. I know, but I'm not going to. Because having come out of that, I don't believe in shaming people anymore. Yeah. Unless they're harming, they're like doing severe harm to somebody. I just don't believe in going online or doing anything, you know.

Yeah, no, I agree with you. This has been awesome. I'm so glad you came back. I'm so glad. I didn't think you would. It surprised me. No, I knew I would. I just was like I love John.

It's good to see him. But I had to, as I said to you. You had to figure it out. I had to figure out, but I also, and I'm, and again, thank you for having me back. Of course. Thank you for doing it the first time. But as I said to you, when I put my hands in your shoulders, I had to see you face to face to say it. Yeah. I couldn't send you an email. It was so honest and so it just

was a moment that I won't forget. I just and I walked away. You were watching a baseball game. Yeah. And I told my girlfriend, I said, that was the sweetest thing ever. And I told her what happened. She goes, oh, man, that's really sweet. So I thank you for coming here. I adore you. I think you're super talented. I hope the world continues to get to see your talent. And you just make them. Yeah. Because you're going to be doing stuff. And one thing will lead. do another, like the band The Fix said. Remember that song? One thing leads to another.

Oh, yeah. No, that was the fix. They also sang, saved by zero. I don't know save by zero, but I do know. Maybe someday, save by zero. Yes. Well, there's a difference when you sing it sort of in tune as opposed to kind of like, I had to kind of get it out of tune.

Yeah, well, I have, yeah, I tend to be out of tune. Don't think needed to don't tell me, baby, one thing leads to another. That was out of tune, too, anyway. Yeah, but you can definitely sing. Yeah, but I, yeah. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for having me back.

I appreciate it. Yes. When your investors, customers, and workers demand more from your business, make it happen with SAP. The AI-powered capabilities of SAP can help you streamline costs. connect with new suppliers and manage payroll, even when your business is being polled in different directions. To deliver a quality product at a fair price, while paying your people what they're worth, too. So your business can stay unfazed. Learn more at SAP.com slash uncertainty.

You know, I loved having you on, John. Thanks for being so open and candid and, you know, down to earth. And, you know, as an interviewer, I'd just try to be objective and ask the questions I think are interesting. And but you were so open and forthcoming and it meant a lot to me. So thanks for coming on the podcast. You know, because, you know, there's always controversy. There's controversy everywhere you go. And it's nice to hear both sides, you know, someone like John who's been working in an industry a long time and hearing what he has to say. And I think that's important, listening to each other.

Sometimes in the past, I've gotten a little hell for having a certain guest on. And because, you know, beliefs are different. And I don't talk politics. I don't talk, you know, I just try to have candid open conversations about, you know, with people. And I do the best I can. That's all I can say. I'm going to miss this one. John did, John was, it was very intriguing.

I will say. Again, if you want to join Patreon, patreon.com slash inside of you. I'm going to read out the top tiers names. These are folks that really give back to the show. And without them, I would be here. Well, I'd be here, but I wouldn't be on the show. I wouldn't be doing the show because they truly make this show possible.

So thank you. If you enjoyed it, support it. Here we go. Nancy D. Little Lisa, Yukiko, Brian H. Nico P. Rob I. Jason W. Sophie Amraj.

Library Jen Stacey L. Jamal F Janelle B. Mike Eldon Supremo 99 more Santiago M. Leanne P. Kendrick F. Belinda N. Dave Hall. I miss you, Dave.

I'll see you in Liverpool, I hope. Brad D. Ray Hadaada. Tabitha T. Tom N. Talia M. Betsy D. Reann and C. Michelle A. Jeremy C. Mr. M. Eugene R. Monica T. Monica T. Mel S. Eric.

Like H. Amanda R. Kevin E. Jorel. Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Jules M. Jessica B. I met Jessica B. Yeah. Charlene A. Frank B. Yes.

Gen T. Gentie. Randy S. Claudia. You met Jen Toctrine too. She was there. I did. She had glasses.

You were talking to her at the end right next to me. Yes. Yeah. Yes. She's a doll. I met a lot of people. She's a doll. They'll all come to me at random moments.

Yes. That's how it works. works yeah uh who's the last one rachel d rachel d nick w stephanie and evan stephen charlie a don g jennie b76 angie tracy keith b the lovely heather and gregg grether ellie k ben b pierc sultan dave t b b t paugh yeah gary f nile m yes nile it's nile not neal jackie j ritzel bitzel Ritzel-pitzel, Benjamin R and other brother, Darrell.

I love you, couldn't do the show without you. Thank you for listening from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I am Ryan Tears. Ryan is here.

He's here. A little wave to the camera. We love you. And as always, be good to yourself. You know, and we'll get through it. I'll see you next week.

Hi, I'm Joe Saul-Ci. I host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamins, follow and listen on your favorite platform. Thank you.