Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - John Glover

Episode Date: June 18, 2019

Smallville week 2 kicks off with my Dad, John Glover (Smallville, Batman & Robin, Annie Hall). John discusses when he came out of the closet at 21 years old, his iconic career working alongside legends like Woody Allen, Diane Keaton, Bill Murray, George Clooney, and Charlton Heston. John reminisces about his days on the set of Smallville, how miserable he is when he doesn’t have a job ahead of him, and the time he had sex with Freddy Mercury in London. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Smallville week continues, folks. It's this final week. We did two weeks. Last week, if you haven't listened to it, please listen to Kristen Crew at Glano Lang. She doesn't do very many interviews. So go back and listen to that one. That's really good.

And the creators of Smallville, I don't think they've ever done any interviews. Well, maybe they have. But this week, the guy who played my father for seven years, I think six before I killed him and threw him out a window. What a glorious man. such great stories you're going to have to listen i don't want to give anything away but uh anyway john glover is on the show we talked about how i was so nervous because i thought he didn't like me in the pilot but he was just he was nervous and that's why he was like what are he talking about

i was nervous and i don't hear very many interviews from him either so let's get inside the one and only i'm very excited about this let's get inside of john glover it's my point of you You're listening to Inside of You With Michael Rosenbaum Inside of You Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum Was not recorded in front of a live studio audience

How can you hear him Can you hear him nice and clear? What? See, that's good right there. What? You haven't missed a beat, John Glover. And the beat goes on. And the beat goes on and on.

You have always been, God, man, it's just this energy on set. Like people always say, I have an energy on set. Yeah. When I come on, I think it's insecurity. I think I come on because I have to be on. I want people to like me. You're just innately, just ready to go. You're on.

No, but I like people to like me too. On sets and things, or rehearsals is the place where I'm the happiest. Is that true? You're most happy on set. Working, yeah. Because I can be somebody else. that's true and do you remember how we met it was on the pilot i believe yes and i was really nervous because i sincerely i told you this i sincerely thought you didn't like me i thought the guy who's

playing my father and granted you're a method actor you're not supposed to really like me so to speak but that's part of your your makeup sort of you you sort of startle people and i mean i remember on the set when we were shooting scenes and things that you you'd sort of misbehave i What would I do? Well, you just shake it up, but you were looking for, you know, so it's fresh and everything. So, because a lot of actors plot things out. And when my teacher used to say accidents are kind of the best thing that can happen to. Accidents, how?

Like making your pants, accidents, or what kind of accidents you're talking about? You mean crapping in your pants? No, no, no, no, like that. It's just stuff, if stuff goes different, it forces you to think to be, you know. Present. Yeah, yeah. And that's what you... I figured out that what you were doing was great for me

because it just, it would sort of make me a little tense. Really? Well, but that's what our relationship was like in the play. So you enjoyed working with me in those first few days of the pilot? What? Well, I didn't know if you particularly liked me, because I knew you... Look, all I had heard is, sorry if I sound like a little bit on Norco because I had a neck surgery, so I am a little bit out of it.

If I scream. Well, you took a pain pill before we had this thing? Yeah, because I had to. I'm in a little pin. I'm not a threat. That's what they all say. I had to. Yeah, well, I had to.

I was in a rough show, but I almost canceled. And then buyer and your buddy here, my buddy, said, hey, John's not going to be available until March. If you don't get him on the show today, you're... So you, in essence, you are blaming me for taking the Norco today because you had to, you know, be able to think. Well, no, I was going to take the Norco anyway. I needed to feel good today

You know, because I don't like to play the blame You don't do drugs, do you? Oh, no. Do you drink? Oh, no. Is this a lie? Yes. You're lying to me right now.

I drink red wine, and there's something about Mary Jane that just thrills the crap out of me. Thrills the crap out of you. Marijuana does something to you? Yes. Now, does it free you of inhibitions? Does it awaken you, the spirit of John Glover? What does it do for you? Oh, God, yes.

But when it started, when I first smoked it, it wasn't until I was out of college. Right. It was a different time back then, you know. The weed was real. I guess. But now, at first I was very paranoid when I get stoned. Do you get paranoid every time you get stoned?

No, no, not anymore. Not anymore. No matter how bad the weed is or strong the weed is, you don't get paranoid. You know, I don't want to boast something like that in tempted providence. What is it about weed for you? Do you feel sexually adequate, more adequate, when you're stoned?

Mm-hmm. I think so. Do you feel, what do you feel? Well, all the touch is different, you know, it just has to do with your attitude, I guess, which everything in life is dependent on, you know, or determined by your attitude and how you deal with it. You taught me how to. What? I don't know.

A lot of things. But I always give you credit for the man, the. actor who taught me how to touch people on set now what this was was you know i was 26 coming into smallville and i had done plays and things like that but i had never experienced another actor when it wasn't written when it wasn't subtext was it when it wasn't directed at the actor i wasn't used to someone touching me oh now this was a very unique thing you would do there'd be a moment where you'd look at me in and then you'd grab my cheek and you'd say son or you'd rub my shoulder you know the one i hated that they cut was that time when i when i took your your face in my hands

and just stuck my tongue down your throat oh yeah they cut that out well just thought what are they doing just i don't remember that maybe i was stone you were so stone that day now do you did you did you learn that from someone else because what does is it throws the actor off in a good way for me and that's what i'm saying that you did for me so you're you're saying you like to be uh on on on edge. You like to be on your, you know, just like a little bit loose, a little bit like unpredictable. Yeah. And that worked well for us because I, you know, when we're in the middle of it, it's just like, what the fuck is he doing? Yeah. Because he's changing things up. That's not what it's, but then I just would use the, um, it was good for our relationship. It was. I tried

at once with a guest star and it didn't work out too well. Who was the guest star? I don't remember. I think it was Sean Connery's son. But I remember, uh, you know, I, I touched him. I grabbed his face. And the director said, hey, Michael, on this take, don't touch him. I'm like, why? He's like, you don't know him? He's a guest star or it doesn't make any sense. I have a friend who was on, who is that girl that was on the, um. Amy Adams?

No, no, no, no, no. She was on that thing with, um, that show when we were doing Smallville with all the four kids. And, uh, I don't know, but I think. Anyway, charmed? Was it a charmed show? No, no, no, it was, it was the, why is it so hard for you to remember that? You're a young. I'll remember it.

Well, because I'm old. You're not old. How old are you? Seventy-four. That's not old. In today's market, I said market. Today's market, John, 74 is not old. You have 16 years left before someone's going to go, hey, that guy's old.

Anyway, this girl, and my friend was on the show, she was playing her mother. Right. So at one point, she took the, you know, took the hair and brushed it behind her ears and everything. They finished the take. And the young actress, who was the star from. Brokeback. Brokeback Mountain, hunchbacked mountain. Wasn't her Michelle, there was a blonde girl?

What was that? Michelle Williams? Michelle Williams and the other girl. Oh, Gossons Creek. Dawson's Creek. And the other girl, who was the other, who was the dark girl? And that was, uh, who? No, wasn't Ann Hathaway.

It was a guy, girl was. Katie Holmes. Yeah. No, but anyways, she was the one that said, don't touch me. When this was a woman who was playing her mother. She didn't like it. So have you ever had an actressy, don't touch me? I don't want to be touched on a set.

Not that I can remember, but that, That's a mean the thing. Well, I remember you were in a movie called, some of you might know it, Annie Hall. Oh, yeah. You had a nice moment, and you guys were touching and making out against a wall, if I recall.

I was sort of rubbing up my finger up and down her bare arm. And who was that actress? Diane Keaton. That was Diane Keaton. Touch my heart with your foot. Did you just make that up? No.

It was in the script. And Woody Allen was going to cut that line because he had us in a beam bag and stuff like that. So he said, well, you're standing. standing up so I got to cut that line and I knew that was the money line so I sort of said well wait look like that so I started sliding down the wall as I said it then how was it working with Woody Allen were you nervous working with Woody Allen it's just strange why is it

strange because he's they say or they what the word they use is shy see I was I was working on a play up in Harvard the devil's disciple and I had met him one So they just called me and said, you've got this job. So I had to come in from Boston to do this one scene. And when I got home, they had put my sides in the mail slot in this loft where I lived. So I got home. I learned the scene. When were you shooting the next day?

The next day, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I had no idea what it was about or anything. So I went in sort of like a freak or trying to, because bananas was, I think, right before that. Right. Which, Annie Hall was the first. in that new kind of style that he was doing. And was what he sort of kind of knew, he wasn't tremendously famous yet,

or at this time he was? I think he, yeah, he was. He was already famous? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that was there, but the fact that I had no idea, except for these strange lines, you know, like how I want to be

as an actor torn apart by wild animals and stuff like that. So I was trying to make it bizarre. So he just came up and sort of showed me. But what happened was because it was the split screen. I did mine first, and then they worked for a long time on the scene

of them watching us. So I thought I was done. I was just waiting around. And then they said, okay, John, you're back on. And I thought we did it already. They said, no, no, no, no, we've done the first time, but now we're going back to do yours again. And each take that we did,

because I wasn't ready, and I just learned him the night before, I went up on. You messed the lineup. I ruined the take because it was a very specific thing. do you get in your head when you mess up a line do you remember well that's when i got got in my head what i should have said was after the first one that i uh messed up on i should have said give me a minute now because i didn't know i was but i wasn't confident enough i mean it was like the first you in your 20s yeah yeah it was the second movie i'd ever made the first was shamus

did you ever see that movie with bert reynolds and diane can no i was a junkie so you know there I was on a Woody Allen set and I just tried to do it again and again and I could see the script supervisor who was sitting next to Woody Allen just starting to flinch and so... Like getting upset a little bit.

Like, well, this guy get his fucking lines. Well, they only had four takes for me to do it. See, because then they had to wait for dailies and so I had to come in to the set where we were. I remember when he drove up and gave him the okay to let me go that the first four I did were going. enough so until the movie came out i had no idea if i was still going to be in it so now when you

you get these sides that are slit through your door the night before you're in new york you're probably not making a lot of money as an actor at this point exactly you're broke yes they say you're going to do a scene with michael keaton with a diane keaton i keep wanting to call her michael though when i see her on the street of course why wouldn't you and and michael when i see him I'm tired. How are you? But don't you, how do you control your nerves? Are you, are you a guy that's still to this day gets nervous?

Yes. Or do you, nothing's changed? No, it's changed. It's like re-channeling your iPhone or something. So I've got to learn to myself to say, okay, you're getting nervous or you're flinching because of da-da-da. That just happened. Okay, this is all in your attitude, John, you can take care of this yourself. You just need to change your attitude.

attitude and relax a little. You talk to yourself. You look in the mirror and say, you're good enough, you're smart enough, and doggone at people like me? Is there a sense of that? Do you think that you kind of talk yourself into things like,

I'm here for a reason? I'm fucking good. Yeah, but I can't look in the mirror when I'm doing it. No, it's not only in your head. I'm so vain. Oh, I bet you think this thing is about you, don't you, don't you?

Did Woody ever say? Great job. It was great. It was great. I liked it. You were great. Or did you never hear that? I never heard that.

You never heard that. Well, when he released me, I figure. That could be it. I don't know. Do you need that as an actor? Well, I'd like it. I remember, I recall, season one. I hadn't done a ton of work, but I've done plays and things at this time.

And there's a scene in the Luther Mansion, and I'm supposed to knock all this shit off the wall and these books, and there's a tornado going on outside. It's like the Wizard of Oz. Yes, it's the Wizard of Us. And I'm bloody. and you and I have this huge scene together and I can't get it I just can't get the scene I can't get the lines out

I'm fucking them up it's not organic for lack of a better word I just feel like I suck as an actor and I can't get this and I don't know what to do well how'd you solve it well I solved it because you solved it how did I solve it you took me aside and Michael can I talk to you for just a second

and you were very soft-spoken like you always are and you just said just listen to what I'm saying as your father just listen to what I'm saying forget about all the action and all the things you're doing just listen to what I'm telling you and respond and you're in you were very I'm very sorry if I'm stepping on any boundaries or whatever I go what John that's it I knew what I had forgotten was the thing that every actor forgets listening yeah and I swear the next take was golden I didn't care about anything other than and listening to what you said, the simplest thing, listening. Do you still forget to listen? Sometimes when I'm nervous, you know. When you're nervous. When I was a kid in my 20s and 30s, I don't remember having to really learn lines. And now the, it's getting...

What do you mean? You could learn them so easily, you don't even remember learning them. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, I felt like that, too. I didn't care about it. I was going to replace, this was in the 60s, I think. It must have been the 60s. Andy Robinson, he was in a showdown of the public, subject to fits,

which was based on the idiot by Dostoyevsky. Yeah, yeah. And he was playing Prince Mishkin, the main character. And you were going to take over his role? And take over his role. So I went in, I guess, on a Thursday maybe or whatever, to read for it. And they gave me the part. And you had until Monday to learn it all.

No, no. They said you'll have a week's rehearsal while you're learning the script and everything. I said, I could, I can learn it over the weekend. It was this bold thing that I said. I mean, it was a huge part, but I went home. I just sort of learned it page by page. I never went back over the whole thing again before I came in, so it stuck in there somehow. And I started playing on Tuesday night. I couldn't do that anymore. You couldn't do that. You'd freak out. Immediately the fear would take over and you'd say I can't do this but I I couldn't the memorization now I don't

know how I I had a younger brain then were your parents supportive as an actor back then you had to think acting uh-huh please don't do that yeah well they became more supportive the first time they saw you on the TV when they saw you on TV on the TV what TV show is it was they did up the name has gone the TV show that you were on back in probably 1950s It was a history lesson. And Walter Cronkite was the MC. You were there, and it was on on Saturday. And back when I was a little boy, it was a big, big show.

But they put it back on the air with Walter Cronchite. And you watched it with your parents? No, no. They were at the country club. They played golf on Saturdays. So my dad was in the bar at Greenhill, and I came on the TV. And that made him really proud. And then on, it was really nice.

Were you close as a child where you and your father, your parents, did you get along? Were you in a different mindset? Were they conservative? Yeah. But both of them were very athletic. So I once had a therapist who said, what's the first image you remember of your father?

And I thought, oh, okay, we're out in the side yard in Wilmington, Delaware, where we did Edgemore Gardens. And that first image was me with a bat. And my dad throwing balls at me. But I wasn't that interested. So when I was in junior high school, when we really had phys ed, when I was in the seventh grade, I think, the guy was sending us out, you know, to catch the ball. So when I did mine, it was great because somehow my dad, all that came in me. You always gave it the old college try whenever you were doing.

Well, it's because you knew me grown up. Right. But kid like that. Well, you always, like, you know, and I read about this, but you've always been, I wouldn't say always, but you've been openly gay, right? Oh, no. You haven't been, how long did it take for you to be openly gay? Well, wait, I didn't come out or realize or take charge till I was, it was the summer I turned 21. 21.

Summer stock, you know. Summerstock theater. You learn a lot in summer stock. Is that where you kind of were educated? Yeah. in many ways. Yeah. 21 years old.

No, well, I started when I was, I turned 19, I went three summers. But you're born with it. So you knew at a young age, I'm having feelings or seeing, you know, I'm attracted to men, right? Okay, so the first time I realized this, you know, the movie A Star is born with Judy Garland and James Mason? You mean the one that they just remade that I haven't seen? Listen, you have to listen to me now with Judy Garland. Sorry, Father, yes, yes, yes. All right.

both of their performances in the Star is born. And this was in the 50s, we're talking. Right. You know, you weren't even a twinkle at that point. No, I was nothing. But there's a scene very early in the movie where James Mason's really drunk. He's a drunkard, an alcoholic.

And he's in the bed when he gets home after he's met Judy Garland and talked to her and everything. And he's in this white t-shirt, a white little short-sleeed t-shirt. And I started feeling really, really, strange. Well, right now I would have called it sexual or something. Right. Then you were confused. I was, I was 10 or 11. It was just these strange feelings about, but I didn't. You didn't act on anything. You didn't have any. No. Were you nervous about these feelings? Well, they weren't right. They were wrong. What do you mean they were

wrong? I grew up in Salisbury, Maryland. It's a very flat and bigoted part of the town. And what about your father and mother? Were they, would they, would you say liberal? No. so okay this it was a secret it was something i had to hold on to for years i mean even when i started working with professional actors in the regional theaters and stuff i would i was uptight about because you play masculine characters did you kind of hide that yeah most everybody did gave men because you you feel that you lost you you'd lose your job right McCarthyism or whatever sure all those things take away your uh yeah see that had to be really hard it's hard enough being an actor and then when you have to cover up who you really are i know yeah it's tricky i mean when did you

tell your parents it probably didn't happen until years years later um oh i thought this is gonna be like a lot of jokes and stuff well it is but you know what i like about this yeah this is what i do you're a funny guy you're an enormously talented guy but i also like how it started i like how your career started i like to see adversity you faced things that people don't know about people that, you know, are in the industry that go, oh, God, look what he had to go through to become what he had to become. So to me, that's what I find interesting. I had a lot of dysfunction growing up as a child. I had daddy issues and mommy issues and all these different issues and, you know, a little suicidal maybe during high school. And I kind of am free and open

with all these things, which I think people who are listening sort of kind of can relate to. So, you mean, we don't have to talk about things, but. As I started going around to schools and things, my dad had a kind of dementia. I don't know if it was Alzheimer's per se, but I would try to help them raise money for this and that, like we didn't smoke a lot of the big auction stuff. Yeah, my grandfather, who is dying from Alzheimer's now, and my grandmother passed away from it. So as I went to these schools and things, I would see that they have, they had gay clubs. And I thought, my God, it's a whole different time now that people are growing up except

accepting things like that. But I, even from my parents, I, I mean, they knew I lived with men, as opposed to women, but they didn't think you were gay. Well, I don't think they thought. They stopped. They blocked it. They never questioned you. No.

They never said, your father never, once you really developed Alzheimer's, he never said anything to you or I said, I love you, I accept. Oh, yeah, yeah. And when they both died, they knew who I am. Yeah. And they accepted it. And what did that mean to you? You probably met the world.

Yes. Well, I think that's beautiful. I love you, Michael. I love you too. I love you for being so open with me about this. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before.

I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices. Look, cooler temps are rolling in. And as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear nonstop, like Super Soft, 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at just 60 bucks. Yeah, I'm going to get you one of those, I think.

I like to see you in a cashmere. Maybe a different color, so we don't look like twins. Their denim is durable and it fits right. and their real leather jackets bring that clean, classic edge without the elevated price tag. And what makes Quince different? They partner directly with ethical factories and skip the middlemen. So you get top-tier fabrics and craftsmanship at half the price of similar brands. These guys are for real.

They have so much great stuff there that you just have to go to Quince. Q-U-I-N-C-C-E. I'm telling you you're going to love this place. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staple. from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money. Period. It's Rocket Money.

It's a personal finance app that helps finding cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings this is just a wonderful app there's a lot of apps out there that really you know you have do this and pay for and that but with rocket money it's they're saving you money you're getting this app to save money um i don't know how many times that i've had these unwanted subscriptions that i thought i canceled or i forgot to you know the free trial ran at ryan i know i know you it. That's why you got rocket money. I did, yeah. And I also talked to a financial advisor recently and I said, I had rocket money and they said, that's good. This will help you keep track

of your budget. See? See? It's only, we're only here to help folks. We're only trying to give you, you know, things that will help you. So rocket money really does that. Rocket money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. If you see a subscription you no longer want, rocket money will help cancel it. Rocket money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. They'll even talk to the customer service so you don't have to. Yeah, because I don't want to. Press one now if you want, oh, get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going

over budget, and even when you're doing a good job, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions. with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money.

When you first got smaller, because you've done so much Broadway, man, you did, I mean, you've done, you still, I've seen you in many plays, and I know that Broadway is really your thing. You love acting. You love to work. Are you one of those people that, if you don't work, you'll probably go crazy? Oh, I'm miserable when I don't have a job ahead of me. Explain the misery. Are you hard to be around? You'd have to ask Adam that. Yeah. I will ask. Yes, I am. Yeah, I am. I just, it's like all my self-worth. I feel like, oh, my God, they found me out. They found that, oh, John's miserable. He's not a happy person. No, then I'm faking. I don't know what.

It just, and then I try to fix it. Do you go to therapy? Not anymore. You went for years, though. I graduated. See, I still go to therapy. You go to therapy, Rob? I do not.

Have you ever gone to therapy? Yeah, when I was a kid. Yeah, that's right, because your mom put you on some antidepressants. Because of the therapist? Or she decided it. to do it herself uh i was kind of an introvert so she thought i was depressed and then my brother was already going to therapy because he was he had ADHD how did you feel on it um i didn't feel that different on it it didn't really help you or hurt you no not really so they didn't see a change

so they just would get them off so you didn't become more gregarious no no no no i think i was only on it for like six months or so how old were you what are we talking like probably 15, 14-50? Oh, the puberty had started. Yeah. Yeah, you're trying to figure yourself out. Yeah. Yeah.

It's tricky. Yeah. But you always liked women, right? Yep. I was going to try to get deep with Rob for a second. Uh-huh. No, no. I like this.

And we'll get back to the misery point because I feel like I've learned to live with myself in a way that when I'm working, I have what's called structure. When you work and you have to wake up every day. and 8 a.m. And you work till a little eight hours. You come home, you're tired, and you do the same cyclical thing every day. You sort of forget about life for a while.

It's like, you know, like Billy Joel. It's true. You sort of forget the important things. You're like, I'm working, I'm making money, I have purpose, here I am. And the second you stop, you deal with you and what you don't like and what you do like. And I've gone through this.

I've gone through like, God, I'm depressed. I don't want to get out of bed. Or how do I get out of this? How do I face myself? How do I look in the mirror every day and say, hey, what is this? Maybe this is a good time to just reflect and not keep busy and not do all these things. And what is it like to just be you and hang with you? Have you done that before?

I hang with me every day. I mean, how long has that lasted, though? How long? Well, every day's different. I mean, can you last two, three months without a time? having a job and be all right with yourself? I would say it's hard. It's just, yeah.

But what is it? It's my insecurity. I did this production of Juno and the Peacock at the Mark Taper here in L.A. with George Seton, a really nice movie director, directed it. Walter Mathau, Jack Lemon, Maureen Stapleton.

Jesus. They filmed it. They moved the set down to one of those streets in Hollywood that used to be Charlie Chaplin's They moved the whole set down there the day after we closed or two days and they're going to film it for, you know, videotape it to have it on record.

And so when we'd almost finished, Jack walked up to this market where they sold beer and cheap stuff to get a bunch of beers for the crew and everything. So when they wrapped, but he went up in his, they were poor Irish people. So he went up in his costume

and he came back like white as a, I mean, he just was horrified. I said, Jack, what happened? He said, well, there I was, buying the beer. And this guy comes up to me that's like a little better dress than I am. But, you know, that he's there looking for money to get some beers. And he just came up to me and sort of pulled my coat. And he said, Jack Lemon, God, oh, you'll never work again.

What? Well, the guy was drunk, and he saw him dressed like he was, who hadn't worked for a long, long time. So he figured he was. But in Jack. In the back's head, I could see that, I mean, even with somebody like Jack Lemon, he came back thinking, Oh, my God, I'm not going to work again. Because that production didn't get good reviews at all.

So he just, you know, they just kind of buy into this. Yeah, well, we're insecure. Actors are insecure. But you've got to get over it. We've got to get over this. Like, we've got to, there's got to be something along the way that you say, hey, it's good enough. And people say, what have you done? And I said, oh, I did seven years of small.

I did two years of another show. two years of another show. I did some good movies. I did some bad movies. I mean, we're all insatiable. We all want to be better and better. But at the end of the day, when is it enough? When does John Glover look in the mirror and go, God, I've done tons of Broadway. I've done tons of movies. I've done tons of shows. I've won Tony Awards, for God's sakes. I'm good. Just won Tony. The other was a nominee. And you were nominated for an Emmy, too. Oh, five times I've been nominated for an Emmy at all. I was nominated for an Emmy at all. I was nominated for a year. Award, I believe, Saturn.

How many Uranuses do you have? Do accolades help you with your confidence? Do you like receiving awards? I was an accolite at church. And I wore this kind of black, long thing with this white thing. I would carry the cross down the aisle in the center aisle. And then put the can...

I'd light the candles and put the candles out. I'd collect the money right at the end, put them all. Were you ever embarrassed by a row? role? Well, just if I thought I wasn't good in it. Yeah. What role did you think you weren't good in? I can't remember them. Really? You can't remember the bad ones. What roles were you good in? You were like, I was fucking good. Because I could tell you your greatest Lionel Luther. You know that. I had a good time. And we had a good time. We'd had a good time. You taught me a lot. I think you taught everybody a lot. Even when Tom and I go on tour for these

little signings, we have the Q&As. And Tom will always say, John Glover, what one of the best actors that ever lived. And I agree with them. And it's true. You have a certain confidence, a certain stature, a certain, and it's a lot of experience that it shows, it shows. But there's also a kindness and a versatility that I think that, you know, if people don't know you, they could see if they watch you, watch your performances.

Even in that fucking show, Brimstone. You liked doing Brimstone, didn't you? Well, I was the devil. You were the devil. You were the devil. I came, you know, it was all surprises and stuff. Do you ever want to play a good role? Do you ever want to play like somebody who's really charming and lovable and likable and people are like...

You know, when I had trouble, I have trouble with roles like that because they're not... Challenging? They are challenging to me. When Tom and I were in that smallville years... You had to switch roles, right? And so I'm used to... It was very hard to not just be. There's a simplicity.

to Tom's performance. Yeah. That's actually really difficult to sort of convey if you're not. And he was doing me brilliantly. There was a thing I would do back then, I guess from dry mouth where I'd take my tongue and kind of swipe it between my bottom teeth

and my lip. I don't remember that. Oh, it's really sexy. Yeah, that's really good, yeah. But so he put a lot of that stuff in there. So it was just genius the way he was, you know, Simone. And so my mom.

Who was your favorite? It's hard to say that, but who are you? Who did you love seeing every day in Smallville? Who did you, like, wake up and go, God, I love seeing this person? I'm going to get Steve Oban. Yeah, Steve and I had a great time. Yeah, sure.

Was it more of the crew you love seeing every day? Were there any cast members that you're just like, oh, fuck, I got to work with them. Another scene with them. This is going to be difficult. No, no, that's not true. Was I difficult? No, we've already talked about you.

You just, you would, no, you were good. You have a good body. You work out a lot. You worked out religiously on the show. I did. Yeah. I don't. Have you ever showed your, um...

Penis on a, uh, in a movie? In a movie. Or a play? A play, yeah. It was at arena stage, which is a, a theater in the round. It's raked, sort of. It's not raked. It's a flat thing, and all the audience members on all four sides go up.

Mm-hmm. So I was on a mattress. Right. Plenty. It's called Plenty. It's a David Hairplay. I did it with Blair Brown. But I'm there.

The scene starts. I go out in the blackness, completely naked. I go under a sheet. Two women are on stage talking. Joan McIntosh played the second woman. She would come over. She would take the sheet and lift it off me. So the whole audience.

What year is this? Was it the 70s, the 80s? Late 70s. And then she would, yeah, so she'd pull the sheet off me, and there it was, and then she'd take my penis in her hand and say turkey neck and turkey gristle, isn't it? Turkey neck and turkey gristle, she's holding my penis. Let me ask you something. Would you do any exercises, like, you know, for my penis to make it bigger? Stretch it before. I don't think they had, I didn't know about those things.

If, for instance, you know, well, you know, you stretch it, you pull it. Oh, well, I spent a lot of pulling time. Tugging, just because you don't want it to be. If you go in a cold pool, it wouldn't be a good idea. Shrinkage. No. Shrinkage, you don't shrinkage. No matter how you...

You probably have a nice penis, I'm guessing. No matter how long or hard I pulled. No. I mean, it just... You're a grower, not a shower. I wouldn't even say that. Are you average? I don't want to pass judgment on myself.

I bet you have a nice penis, John. The first woman I slept with... How many women? I have you slept with? Five, say five. Did you enjoy the sex? Yes, I did. But the first woman, I mean, I was kind of uptight about the size thing.

I'd be more uptight about keeping an erection. You know, if you're having sex with a woman and you're gay, because you're not really bisexual, are you? Well, but at that point, I wasn't bisexual. I was just with women, but I was young. It was six. I was hard most of the time. You were? You could do it.

You could perform. Or it's nothing to do it, but to do it. Did you think of it? That's hard. Anyway. Anyway, back to the growing child. But after it, she at one point said to me, I was saying, you know, like, is my penis enough? She said, long enough, fine.

It could be a little girthier. Gerthier, yeah. Any penis could be girthier. Rob, do you have a girthy penis? I don't know. I mean, you're, you proud of your penis? Yeah, it's fine. It's fine.

Stand up, Rob. You said something to me I hope you won't make me edit this I don't think you will Because I don't think this person's gonna listen John But you said something to me We were in the makeup trailer Circa 2003

Yeah And the music was playing What music? I had music playing in the trailer Oh you always did I always played 80's music And I and you said Michael What is this?

You're as cold as ice You're willing to sacrifice your love I said this is Hall of Notes John And you looked at me and you said I know I had one of them You said I think I fucked the small one In the 70s

Was that true? I think I did You think you did Yeah And the other guy Darrell Hall wasn't No no not that I'm talking about

John Oates No no no no He's the English guy Freddy Freddie Mercury Yeah yeah You had sex with Freddie Mercury Yeah yeah

No In London You had sex With Frederick Mercury I don't yell. People are, like, can I hear you? This is phenomenal. I think I would have had sex with Freddie Mercury back in the day. How old was he when you had sex with him? I didn't ask.

How old were you? It was in the 70s. Seventies. Was it good sex? You know, I'd had a lot of wine that night, and I think he had two. So I remember it. You remember it? You remember what you did? You remember his body? You remember his teeth, of course. Oh, I remember that.

Remember the teeth? It was fun. He was a fun guy. Did he sing to you at all? I don't remember. He don't remember. A long, long time ago. He didn't sing, can anybody? He didn't sing anybody.

But you had sex with. Any other famous people you had sex with? Nope, two's your limit, buddy. Two's your limit. You have had an illustrious career. It sounds to me like you've had, look, you've been the partner with Adam for, I'm going to guess, don't tell me.

I'm going to guess 28. years. No, it's only 26 or 27. So I was really close. We just had our third wedding anniversary. Third wedding anniversary. He got married. Because you two are a fascinating couple. I mean, he's an artist. He makes the most amazing things that are unique. Amazing, unique. What would you say? Like, what are some of the things he makes? He's sculptors. He makes these little light fixtures, I recall. He's doing lead and glass now. So the, I mean, he can work. He's done incredibly. paper mache. You wouldn't believe it's paper mache. And he sells these things. Bronzes, yeah. Does it turn you on his work, his artistic ability? It was interesting because

I knew him for maybe at least a month before I'd seen his work. So to both of us, our work, he actually thought I was Bill Atherton when we started. Bill Atherton? Do you know who Bill Atherton is? Look him up. Who is he? Well, down in the public. theater days during i i was in um house of blue leaves and he was in pablo hummel so we look similar we're both tall thin man he was in ghostbusters yeah and he was in those bruce willis uh diehard diehard movies yeah now you are 10 years his 13 years his how would you say 13 years his junior his senior how do you do that how do you say that i'm 13 years older he's 13 years younger than me That's right.

Yeah, it was pretty simple. Were you ever worried that he's going to leave you because you're older? Because I think that's always an issue whether you're gay or whether you're straight. People are always like, you know. Yeah, we went to therapy together, at least seven or eight years. Did you think you might break up at one point? Well, we just weren't happy with each other. What was that?

What caused that? Bad communication. Yeah. And sometimes it still happens. Yeah. Yeah. So. Does he tell you as it is?

Does he say, I don't particularly think you were great in that role? Yes. I'm very insecure about my. my singing. And I, because when I've done musicals, I mean, I sing all the time. It makes me happy. When I shared a dressing room with Tony Roberts, I would sing, and he'd go, John, that is not the tune. And then he'd sing it for them.

But you didn't care, because you love singing. Well, I cared that he got pissed off about it because he can, but he heard, I mean, he could see where the notes sort of change. and I sort of flatline when I sing. Yeah, I can't tell whether I've jumped a key or sometimes. But so they do this thing for Broadway Cares Equity Fight States, where it's called Broadway backwards. And the guys do girl songs and the girls do guy songs.

And that's how they raise a lot of money. So I did, there's a song that she didn't write it, but Bet Midler does hello in there about the couple. Right. So this was about two men. but I was very I mean it's almost a talk song and everything but I worked on it and worked

on it and worked on it I didn't even get Adam a ticket I was so You didn't want him to say it Well he's so musical I mean he can he just He never sings off key Were you good? Well I found a way to do it

That it was like a little play So it was very successful But I knew when I did it That I sort of went off key So he went upstairs where we live Because I didn't want to watch him watch it So he watched it thing he said was you went off key a couple of times it was all right didn't it bother the shit out of you

well i just wanted to say you know it was beautiful it was so moving or whatever yeah it was you know yeah i've always wanted that from my father like wow you you really you're really so good michael you're so you're so talented you really nailed that i love you son did you get that from your dad i could feel it yeah i got that from you i did i felt like on the show you were like michael you were so good in that scene. And it meant a lot to me coming from you, you know? Well, there you go. And I know that you're still giving and doing your walks for Alzheimer's, correct? I haven't done one for a while. Maybe we should do one together. All right. Why don't we? Why don't I email you? Because I know there's one coming up. I did one in L.A. last year. Yeah. But we should find one

and do it. All right. You know, there's vaccines that they're coming out with. They're going to do human testing soon. There's a lot of things going on with it. Too bad they couldn't have come out with these during, you know, your father's living years, you know, but, uh, did you have fun today? Oh, you mean here with you? Yeah. Always. Wasn't this fun? Yes.

You didn't think it was going to be so serious. I didn't know what it was going to do. But it wasn't that serious. We jumped all over the place. All over the place. Right? Yeah. You're a good talker.

You're a great listener. Oh, thank you. By the way, what was it like working with Bill Murray? People ask you that all the time, but was he awesome? Yeah. I mean, there was this one, a shot where we had to walk across two. sound stages that were sort of... Scrooged?

Yeah, Scroogeed. You still get residuals for Scrooge? I don't know. You should? Well? Gremlins, too, probably as well. Oh. Tell me about Scrooge. You were walking on parallel sets. Yeah. Oh, but the line, there were no lines. So it would sort of help me. He gave me a great line.

And don't ask me what it is because I cannot remember it right now. He gave you a line. Yeah, he was very generous, very, very generous. Really? Was the crew love him? I think so. He was pleasant to be around. I think so. Who's your favorite actor you've ever worked with? Because you've worked with a lot of people. Most of them, I don't even know their names half the time.

But the favorite, the one that goes... There's not one, there's not one. There's probably someone that you go. It just makes you smile when you think about it. Jack Lemon. Oh, he used to play the piano while I sang it's the shine on your shoes. And I know his granddaughter now, Sydney. Really?

Yeah, yeah. Walter Motho. Walter? Oh, he was a lot of fun. Yeah. He's doing it all. wrong asshole Walter Mathel

Walter Mathel yeah Who's the biggest act you've ever worked with The one that you were like This is I'll never work with a bigger actor than this Oh these are hard these are hard questions Yeah probably you know if you asked me I probably you know I worked with Stallone I worked with Clint Eastwood These were these were big actors that were idols of mine

I did a scene with Charleston when he was bare ass Completely naked And was it the scene when you were holding your turkey dick? That's going to happen? It's called the Mountain Man. The Mountain Man. Did you have a nice ass?

Well, I only saw the front. Right. He was standing in, yeah. But I didn't know he's going to take all his clothes off for the shot. Well, he's not rehearsed it like that. Did you watch it? No, no, no. I'd drive up and he's a ride up, in a horse.

But he was standing in front of the campfire, and as I rode up, I could see that he'd taken all his clothes off. so as I walked up to him I kept thinking no where do I look what do you would you ever do another series I don't know another hour long series that films in Vancouver at this point of my life I that would be really hard because there's some show came up after we finished smallville that was going to be a shot yeah a series and you know what I do it but I was on the phone with the writer of it, before I went in for the, where they'd give you the, the, where you have to go do for the studio.

You're testing. The test or whatever. So I was there and I sort of told her on the way to the, I was really, but wasn't interested so much in doing another in-and-out of Vancouver. And that probably said, all right, well. Well, I did the thing and my phone went off in the middle of it. So I picked up and answered. I tried to use it.

But I think because I told her that I wasn't so interested. I didn't have to choose. You knew in your gut you didn't want to do it. No, I did. Yeah. So you'd be happy and contentious doing plays for the rest of your life, occasional movie here and there.

I mean, you're fine. You're financially fine. You don't have to worry. What I found and what I lost when I first came to L.A., I stopped enjoying or doing the work. So it became more about success and money, and that's when I found my teacher,

Milton Gatsalas, who I knew I needed something because I wasn't enjoying. the work anymore. And that's what I would tell the students at Tauson University when I go back, which is where I went to school. And it's what's going to get you through it is loving the work part of it. How do you learn to love the work again? Because I sometimes find myself like, you know, I'm happy doing a podcast. I'm happy occasionally doing this. I like to write. But what's going to help me get that edge back, that lust for? I think it must be picking the work. I remember when

I was in Batman and Robin and George Clooney played the Batman. But he wasn't happy. He didn't want to put on the, apparently put on the whatever that outfit is, which is really hard to get into. But after the movie, I read

something about him that he said I made a decision then not to take a job that didn't mean anything to me. So, I mean, I think that's where you've got to go is be selective and not, because I was doing everything. So no matter what,

choose something you actually will enjoy doing. Yeah, yeah. And know what you're getting yourself into. Yeah. I mean, that's good advice. It's got to be about the work. Not about how much money you're going to make from it or how much more famous this is going to make.

I'll give you $10 million to do another one-hour series in Vancouver. I don't, see, it's a hard decision to make it turn down work. It is. But, I mean, to go to work and not enjoy it or find a way. because how many years you have left? Not you, the proverbial you. Like, how many years do we have left? We could die tomorrow. So if you're getting stuck

on something you don't love, and you don't have to. There's that line in network where William Holden says, I'm closer now to the end of my life than I ever have been before, and it's scaring the shit out. My brother reminds me that. He goes, when I turn 46, he goes, you know you're closer to 92 than you are zero.

You fuck. Sobering. John Glover, thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. Well, thanks for letting me But this has been a real treat. I've been wanting you on this show for a long time. Many, many people have asked. And I wanted to have you on here. It feels like old times.

And I appreciate you not staring at my scar on my neck. That will heal. I don't think so. I think you look great. I really do. I think you look great. I mean, you're 74 and you don't look 74. Thank you, Michael.

Yeah. How could you say anything else? Well, I wouldn't say anything. Oh, God. John, you look so old today. You could have that cup if you want, inside of your cup. You could also get them online inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. I do love this man.

Football season is here. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience. From the pros. One of the most interesting quarterback rooms To college Michigan is set at eight and a half wins To fantasy If you feel that way, why didn't you trade them?

Become a better fan And listen to the football podcasts From Believe Just search Believe That's B-L-E-A-V podcast Follow and listen on your favorite platform