Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - JOHN GLOVER: Acting Into 80, Smallville Secrets, Career Regrets & Being ‘Less Than’

Episode Date: November 7, 2023

Go follow Glover‼️👇 📸 https://www.instagram.com/thejohnglover/ ✖️ https://twitter.com/realjohnglover John Glover (Smallville, Tony Award Winner) joins us in studio for an open and honest conversation about aging in this industry while wanting to stay busy amidst all the craziness that has surrounded us over the past few years. John talks more about his desire to act until the day he dies and how we share similarities of starting to act by chasing peer approval at a young age. We also talk about his opinion on the writing for Lionel Luthor during Smallville, who he regrets ‘chickening out on’ working with in his career, and the praise he receives by bringing complexity to the villains he plays. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🧠 Neurohacker: https://neurohacker.com/inside 😌 Nutrisense: https://nutrisense.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I appreciate you for listening to the podcast and supporting it. It's a little podcast that keeps going thanks to you guys listening. And patron, my patrons, if you don't know what a patron is, there are folks who support the podcast by getting back. And you can go to Patreon, p-t-R-E-O-N.com slash inside of you, become a patron. I'll send you a message. And there's a lot of perks and it's a lot of fun. It's like a big community now.

A lot of people have become friends and family. And it really supports the podcast and keeps a sucker going. So if you like what you're listening to, appreciate it if you did that. Also, you can go to my Linktree on Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum on Instagram and go to the link tree and you can see Cameo and I'm on Cameo and the what conventions I'm doing and anything else I'm doing. Music, my band Sunspin.

You go to sunspin.com. There's merch there. You can get zooms. You can go to Talkvillepodcast.com and get Zooms with me and Welling. You can go there and buy some cool merch. And the inside you online store has a bunch of cool stuff like Lexmas scripts signed and ship keys and tumblers and a lot of pictures, autographed pictures. So you know they're coming from me. Cool stuff.

Very exciting. And I also want to give a shout out to spooky empire in Orlando. I had an absolute blast. Peter, thank you for having me. Um, it was just a great time being at a horror convention, Ryan, with, you know, like Robert England, Freddie Krueger and Heather Lane camp and nightmare and other nightmare and Elm street people and the lost boys, my friend Jason Patrick, Kiefer Sutherland was there, Nick Frost, who we love, he was there. Um, it was a great time, great time. So thank you for

that great weekend. I'm going to go there next year, whether they invite me or not. I'll just go and shop. I bought so much stuff. Uh, it was so much fun. It's, uh, they do, it around Halloween every year so you guys got to go to that um what else what else the animal rescue mission if you want to donate they're amazing my friend shira animal rescue mission.org a homeless situation food on foot dot org um ronald mcdonnell house helping families while their children are going through major surgeries or dealing with a lot um these are places that i give back to and i appreciate and uh yeah you know it's funny as we have a big guest potentially coming on it sounds like it and Ryan might not be here. I can't tell you the guess in case they cancel, but it's like

the biggest guess we ever have. And Ryan is going to try and work it out. Well, yeah. Oh, you can't miss that one. Um, I don't know. Uh, great show for you today. I mean, it is a, it's a good one. It's John Glover. I mean, he was my dad on Smallville. You can't beat that. It's so much fun talking to him. I'll tell you, it was serious. It was funny. It was, um, It just was, I learned a lot, a lot more than I thought. John's been on before, but this one, you know, made me tear up a little and very honest and raw. I think he felt like it was therapy at times. And I hope you guys feel the same way.

What are on our handles so people can follow us? Well, they're at Insideview Pod on Twitter and At Inside Be podcast on Instagram and Facebook. And you can watch on YouTube if you want. Let's subscribe, write a review on Apple. It really helps the show and spread the word. Without further ado, let's just get into it. Let's get inside of my father, John Glover. It's my point of view.

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. All right. We're here with Mr. Glover. Uh-huh. Uh, you know, what's, what's kind of funny is, I'm going to speak for Ryan, but Ryan here, he doesn't have a microphone today because we didn't set it up. But, uh, so don't talk to him and ask him questions. You could talk to him, but he just can't answer. But Ryan, uh, has been watching smallville for the first time on our talkville podcast. So he's a little, uh, would you say you're a little excited? Yeah. Okay. It's cool to see you in person. Yeah. Yeah. After, what, we're three and a half, whoa, two and a half seasons in. Yep. Uh-huh. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh Three and a half. Two and a half.

Oh, yeah, yeah, we're almost doing. Anyway, we're watching, you know, we watched Talk, Phil, and most of these episodes I never saw. I didn't watch him. You never saw them? I didn't watch the show. You never once saw yourself on Smallville. I did in the beginning, and then I stopped watching. Why was that?

Because I didn't want to, I just felt I would be better if I wasn't aware of, if I wasn't aware of, that I didn't want to look that way or this way or whatever way. You were self-conscious. I didn't want to be self-conscious about it when I was working. That I, you know. Do you do that a lot? Have you done that with a lot of your work where... In the beginning, I used to look at myself all the time and love to.

And then as I get older, I stopped. Why is that? I don't know, maybe because I'm older. I was going to talk to you about that because, look, you're not old. you're very youthful you move around like you're still how old do you feel by the way because you're 79 yeah how old do you feel 11 most you feel young adam looks at me he says you're 11 uh no i i i still feel like i was when i felt i was in my 20s really yeah so you still have that do you wake up? Does it take you longer to wake up? Because for me, with my back,

it takes me a while to wake up. I'm kind of like out of it. Do you wake up early or you have a thirst for life? Yeah. You wait, what time? Well, this morning I got up at five. Why? Well, because I thought it was six, but I was up. What do you do for all those extra hours? Well, I get the papers. Okay. And the woman across the street from us, Bev, She's, you know, so I get her paper and go put it over up on her, right. She has a sort of a thing right on an outside her front door. And I just put it so she doesn't have to bend over. Is she older?

Yeah. So I get her older. First, I get her paper. Yeah, I get her paper and put it up on her thing. And then I came and come and get our New York Times. She gets the L.A. Times. Right. We get the New York Times.

and then an Adam maybe gets up at seven or eight usually right and so so I have that time to read the paper and you do this every morning you wake up you get her Bev's paper you get your paper you have coffee you get going right do you feel like you know I always feel like if I wait the later I wake up the less time I have to deal with myself that I have not as much time to fill the day so if I wake up I still wake up early I wake up at eight but you know there's a lot of hours in the day to do things. So, you know, do you, are things different now that you feel like you're older? Like you don't feel like there's enough to do. You're not doing enough that you feel bored or you're always keeping yourself busy. Well, see, when I'm not, well, I don't know what the

busy doing what. I mean, I knit scarves all the time. You do. You've always done that. Well, not always. Well, yeah. On Smallville, you used to knit scarves and things. Yeah. Well, yeah. But so I'm making things. But, but still, I mean, if I'm not working, I don't have a job. You know, I'm much more comfortable being the characters I play that I am being me. So it's because I, I understand that. I'm not me. It's freer.

I can do things that I wouldn't do for me. Right. So do you feel like you're learning how to be comfortable with you more now? You're forced to be more comfortable with, especially with the strike now. Are you, is that? You know, I don't know. I haven't worked in a while. No one has.

Yeah. But I keep thinking something that's wrong with me. Well, you can't work because there's no work to be having. And I have a fear now because my mind isn't as sharp as it was. Because I don't even remember having to sit down and learn lines. I mean, I would read, you know, I could read a speech and pretty much get it. So, I mean, it just, they came in my head. That doesn't happen anymore.

So you have to go over your lines a lot more. Well, but I have. I mean, do you have to go over them significantly more than you? Well, I don't remember because I don't, I mean, this is only recently. How recent? Maybe a year or so that I've just, but I, but I haven't, I don't remember. I don't even remember what the last time I worked was. Well, you did The Walking Dead, Fear of the Walking Dead.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you had a lot of lines in that. Oh, yeah, I talked a lot. And you managed to do it. Oh, yeah, I did that, yeah. So I guess that was the last one. And that wasn't that long ago. Was it?

Well, that a year or two? Yeah, well, that's a long time. I mean, that's a lot. But it sounds to me like you have the same kind of thing as I have is it's not always comfortable being, you know, you're used to playing a character doing things. And when you don't, you're brought to, you're in a situation where, okay, now I'm with myself a long periods of time yeah and that kind of fucks with you and the and the day is boring it's like okay how many scarves can I knit so there's a point where I have to stop and then what do I do

every day I mean I do my hike in the morning Adam and I go walk around the top of the mountain to start today and then I think what the fuck am I going to do today is what I did yesterday or yeah so it's kind of mundane yeah I think but I think you're not alone I think a lot of times you're probably in your head, you're thinking, what am I doing? What am I? What am I? I'm not working. I can't, you know, but I think everybody feels that way. What do I do with myself?

That's why, you know, people usually have kids. They have to tend to their kids. They have 10 dollars. You don't have children. You have your partner, Adam. You have a life. You can go out to dinner when you want. You can travel when you want.

You can do all these things. But it sounds to me like your whole life and it's obvious. You've been acting since how old? Teenager? Yeah. Yeah, it started in high school and then college. And then I moved to New York when I got out of college. And I started working almost right away.

It was when all the regional theaters were starting around the country, you know. So I learned in front of audiences because I was too chicken to take a class because I thought that the other actors were probably going to be better than me. And it wouldn't be. Well, we all go through that. Yeah, yeah. You know, you started doing all this theater. You started doing all these things.

I think your whole life. My point is your whole life you've been acting. And also I have also realized that, you know, for a long period of time, even today, I need validation. I need like, I'm on a set. Great job. You see it. People like you. People.

And when you're not doing something, when you can't get that away from work, where do you get the validation? Mm-hmm. And do you think that's part of it? Do you think you miss that validation? I guess the camaraderie and all the other things that, you know, take place on a set. But do you feel like you like to be validated? Yeah. That's what I do.

I act. I be other people. You'd be other people. I be other people. I create other people. And you do a great job of it, obviously. Thank you. Do you want to do this until the day you die?

Do you want to act as long as possible? Yeah, I'd like to say, oh, I saw John Glover on stage when he died. I'll die on stage. Really? Yeah. You want to work to the last minute. Yeah. Why?

Why? Because that's what I do. That's what gets me off. Well, there are other things. Yeah, but that's the best thing when I'm doing somebody, being somebody else. It's freeing. Really? That's how your excitement is being someone else is how you, how you thrive.

Yeah. Pretending to be someone. else is it is it do you do you love yourself i know that's a really weird question but i mean do you like yourself can you look in the mirror and go you know john i think you're a good guy i love you sometimes i like myself sometimes i don't what don't you like about yourself uh less i see i grew up less than because i was different than the other little boys i you know my dad my dad was so athletic and he taught me how to hit a ball and throw a ball and do a football and throw football and throw and he taught me well but I wasn't interested in it so so I you know what I was made fun of a lot

when I was in school because I you know because you felt you were different people thought you were different yeah less than and that and that gave me this feeling of being less than so but I found I remember in high school I we were doing the importance of being earnest I think that was the play with June Allen Kitzmiller right yeah June Allen Kittsmiller. She was a good actor too. And she could sing. I sing off key, so I can't do musicals, but I love musicals.

I do too. Yeah. Yeah, but I remember we had a, like a, in the cafeteria, there was a, where we did the play, the whole school came. You did a play in a cafeteria. Yeah, well, we didn't have a. stage so in the cafeteria room they put yeah they took the tables out and set a platform up and they did it there and there was an assembly where we sort of did a preview of it and so i was sort of you know it was english accent everything and i was doing the thing and people started laughing at me and it felt

i i i had control of of of all these people that that i went to school with a lot of which did who didn't like me or anything, but I could make them laugh. Inside of You is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices.

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Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. Do you know I had I talked about it, but I had the same Same thing. When I was a little boy, I was the smallest kid. I was not popular, all the stuff. You guys, listeners have heard this. But I finally did a play. And it was the first time anybody paid any attention to me. We're the same. We're the same people. Any attention. A popular kid walked down and said the hallway the next day and said, you're really funny in that play. And I from that moment on, from a 16 year old boy, 17 year old boy, I said, not being me is what I'm going to be. We're the same. Same. And I think that's why a lot of my depression, a lot of my anxiety throughout the years, and I'm, you know, I think it's because all of a sudden you get to a certain age and you have to spend more time with yourself. And I spent most of my time on sets and making people laugh and entertaining and being the clown. And but when the clown, yep, yeah, when the clown comes home, you know what happens. So dealing with yourself. And I had like a midlife crisis. And I just, I didn't know what to do. with myself and you know all I can say is at least it's happening now but you know do you think you know who you are at this point at 79 years old do you feel like I know who I am I know who John Glover is or are you still kind of figuring who you are out now that you're spending more time by yourself

well what I'm trying to figure out is how to make the the day is not so boring I used to work all the time people would say that oh oh you're always working you're always working and I was always working because i would take jobs sometimes i'd take jobs that they my agents would say don't do that don't do that don't do that but but i hope i just wanted to it was my play so what can we get john to do to fill these days you know um an acting job there are movie theaters there are there's a lot of things to do in l.a there are parks there are events there are why don't you put yourself out there you say you're going to do something three times a week three nights a week and during the days, a few days, make a sort of a write down a list of things. My therapist told me to do

this. Like, fill your schedule with things. They don't, you don't have to pack it, but like, have something. What's Monday? Oh, it's going to be another boring day. Well, what can you do to change that? What can you do for Monday? What can you, where can you go? What can you experience? I mean, at 79, you've probably experienced quite a bit. Yes, I'm not going to get into Freddie Mercury again. I can't believe you don't remember having sex with Freddie Mercury, although you know you did. I mean, if I had sex with Nicole Kidman, I would go, I remember sex with Nicole Kidman. Yeah.

Anyway, we don't have to get into that. I know that recently, I heard that you quit drinking wine. You've been hanging out with Paul Williams, and you've been doing these cons and Batman stuff and the great Paul Williams, who wrote so many great songs. Do you know he wrote The Carpenters? He wrote that song. We've only just begun. No, Monday.

What's that one? Monday. Monday, Monday. No, I think that's Mama's in the Pompers. I thought so. Anyway, but you, you supposedly, did you quit drinking or you quit drinking wine? And why did you do that? Because I found if I drank one glass, it threw me off.

In a bad way. Yeah. so I stopped and I thought okay I thought first I could just drink one and then I just drank one and it was it tilted me and you didn't like how you were acting did people ever say hey I don't like you know yeah how yet they did that's when I had too much because I used to you know go to dinner and have a just keep you know a bottle of wine a bottle of wine and then another bottle bottle of if there yeah but but it

it got so I could only if I had one it would it would throw me off kilter and I thought can I can I really do that stop and I and I don't miss it now are you that's good that you don't miss it

but I but I remember there was some I remember there was somebody else a guy in Baltimore that used to be very very funny he was older than me but but but started when he would drink it changed who he was and i and i thought that's that's happening to me now yeah and i i didn't like it here's what people don't understand you alone are enough you're just

enough you're you have such a great personality you're so much fun to be around you don't need it especially you say it alters you it makes you someone else that's sort of i don't need a lot of People said, oh, remember when we got shit-faced at that? I go, I wasn't drunk. I'm just fun and I probably look like I'm drunk. I don't need it. I've never really loved alcohol. But it's good that you're aware of it and that you're like, you know, why do I need this?

Mm-hmm. You know, I know that we've talked about this in the past. I know that you're a big Alzheimer's advocate and you do the walks. You did it for your dad who passed away from Alzheimer's. My grandfather died of Alzheimer's. My grandmother died of Alzheimer's. now being like 79 years old are you sort of obsessed or thinking oh my god what if i have alzheimer's because every time i forget something i'm like oh why don't i know this why don't

why can't i think about this you just said this does it kind of like uh weigh on you like i got to go to the doctor i got to get a cat scan or whatever the hell they do i i yeah it's i i i wonder if if it is uh yeah i wonder about that so i i mean my memory's not as good as it you used to be like I say so i don't know if it's going to get worse or or if if and then uh you know if i got a play you know you usually have at least four weeks of rehearsal so maybe i could get that you know i want to play a i want to play prospero before i go that's a demanding role yeah big big i did a stage reading of it once with some people so we read it but we but I didn't so we didn't have to learn it and I think could I learn it now I mean is is my mind that that okay do you would

you would you say yes even out of fear yeah you would do it even if you were like I don't know if I could do this I you would just take the chance you know if if if if scary to you yeah yeah um but i i i what i what i'd hope to do if i if i you know could find a place and to do it and a good director who would work with you yeah um um you know jack o'brien is who i'd want right because i've worked with him a lot and shakespeare and stuff down at san diego Yeah. Yeah. So, but if I had enough time to just, you know, if I just read it, read it every day, every day, every day, every day, every day. I think you could do it. I think I could too. And I think it probably gets in your head because I haven't acted in a while. I haven't done this. This is how we all feel. When I don't act for a while, I'm like, I don't, I don't think I can learn these lines. It would take me forever. And you know what? It would. And then once it's kind of you got it and your memory, your mind, it's amazing how you train it you train it by learning and learning and learning and memorizing and when you don't it slows down and goes back to that kind of the way it might have been or worse but it's it's like

anything else it's a muscle so i you know the fact that you have the bravery to be like fuck yeah i do it is amazing that you you take it because i would be chicken shit i'd be like no i'm gonna start out with just a couple scenes and if i like that and if i'm doing it i'm managing i'll work my way up I'll build it. You're like going to Prospero. I'm like, Jesus Christ, John. But you've always had that attitude. Since I've known you, you've always been one to take risks, to try things, to be creative, a good scene partner. I mean, you know, working with you, I think I improved substantially as an actor because I would learn my lines even more because I wanted to, in a way, impress you i wanted to i wanted you to almost like a father figure like i wanted you to be proud

i wanted you to i wanted to show john tony award winner all these things i wanted to i wanted you to like me and respect me and and and uh i always put a lot of weight on that sort of thing just because just to make me better and it and it did um but i guess you don't lose that you still have that that in you you know i hope so well you do you do do you want to just do you i think that maybe you know it would be good for you maybe good for me what if we just got into an acting class what if we got into something fucking just to sharpen our skills and start working on scenes i did that when i was here because when i moved out to california and i started making money then I would take jobs and make money

but I wasn't enjoying the work yeah and I there was a teacher that I know a lot of people worked with out here a man named Milton could sell us and I thought I should go to him and so I asked somebody at the gym one day that I knew that studied with him can I go to a class and look at a class

and he asked Milton and Milton said yeah bring him bring him bring him And so I studied with him. And he said, Milton said to me one day, he said, you'd closed up shop. You'd stopped. It's like you weren't working anymore. So he got me back to enjoying the work again. See, that's interesting.

Because I think it's the enjoyment I miss, but I don't look at anything as enjoyment in terms of acting. Nothing really inspires me. So I wonder if I could bring back that element of like, you remember in college or high school when you're just reading scenes with people or you're just improvising or you're playing games or tongue twisters and there was an element of fun. And my therapist told me,

you have to do, whatever you do, there has to be an element of fun in it or you're not going to enjoy it. So maybe that's also what I need. Maybe it's getting a teacher like that goes, let me bring the fun back. He died. Oh, that's not fun.

That's not fun. No. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses this. So many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right?

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Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors, one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. what um what fun things did he bring back to you that he just i don't know i mean i started i did more scenes than anybody in the class because i mean i just i i started acting again i started working again and i and i was loving the work so but but yeah this not working and and this you know or this strike that we're on who knows

It put you in a little bit of a lull. Yeah. So I don't know where to go. But, you know, but it's, but that stage actors, we're not, we can work. That's true. I mean, yeah. Stage actors can work. Yeah.

I believe, right? Yeah. I mean, it's not part of the AMPTP, is it? I don't know. Have you struck? Have you striked? No, no. No.

You haven't? No, I don't want to work. No, no. I mean, have you, do you want to get out there and strike with your fellow SAG members with other actors? Yeah, I understand it, but I haven't gone out. Would you? Yeah, I guess I should. Well, why don't we go one day? Okay.

Me and you, just go strike for an hour and have lunch. All right. We could just strike and support, support the cause. Okay. I think we should. All right. Do you, obviously, this is a stupid question. Theater or film, if you had to choose.

Theater. Why is that? Well, that's where I started. And when you're doing it, you kind of know if it's right, because you can feel the audience, whether they're listening, whether they're laughing or not laughing, or whether they're weeping or not weeping. But that's sort of where I learned in front of an audience. And that's sort of also the instant gratification, the immediate validation. Right, exactly. Do you go to therapy? Yeah. you do you have a therapist yes and what do you talk to him about i don't know i sometimes i don't feel like i don't know what else to say like the other day we were talking he said you got 10 more minutes i said i don't know what to say so he said okay and we stopped so i think well may i don't

know maybe i'm not being honest with myself and there are things i need to talk about that we're not talking about so I don't but but now with us talking I we do Tuesdays so maybe next Tuesday I'll talk about some of this stuff I think that's I mean that's that's it's it's you being so honest and open like I said I mean before it people listening they can people can understand they could it's just it's real it's real and it's you know it happens to all of us and we all have our demons and it's like you know for so long long, I wanted everybody to like me, including my therapist. I don't want you to think there's anything wrong with me. Then why are you going to therapy? You know, but ultimately, you know,

you have to, we have to dig deep. I just had therapy right before you came. And I started talking about disappointment and how much of a disappointment I think I've felt as a child that I was always disappointing everybody, my parents and people and I just wasn't this, I wasn't that. And no matter how much you work on things it carries it stays with you even a part of it will always stay with you that's what i call less than when i said less than that's that's what i feel about myself a lot but less than and exactly me too but but you shouldn't you shouldn't feel less than because look at everything you've achieved you have to and that's hard sometimes you're like i know i know i've had success i've made money i've worked with great people but i don't feel that and that's what

therapy is for is to try and break through where you feel it, you understand it, you connect with it, and you don't let it rule your life, and you try to make changes that will fulfill that void. You know what I mean? So I think that you deserve it. I mean, you're a wonderful human being. There's not a more giving, lovable, talented guy out there. And you deserve to be happy, even though you know you may not feel like you're trying to understand all these things and look i'm saying this because i feel the same thing i i struggle with it constantly and um but it's worth it's worth it to just say you know do you tell him i feel less than you do tell him that and he says why i don't know what he says well get a new therapist i mean that's what you need do you uh do you think

about do you you know i i used to obsess about death do you obsess with with death do you think about oh my god how many years do i have left or how many or does it not concern you yeah i just wonder how it's going to happen i hope it goes quick well of course yeah i don't want to suffer well here's the thing you know i'm i'm i'm i mean my next birthday i'll be 80 which seems sort of i've never been 80 before that's big yeah that's a big number it's you know my grandfather lived till he's 95 he got Alzheimer's though at 90 but like his body and everything was like if he didn't have Alzheimer's he would have to 100 and he had a good life so I think what we do too is I you know I'm like oh my god I'm 40 I can't believe I'm 40 I'm so old then I'm 50 and I'm like why was I fucking thinking that

when I was 40 stop thinking about how old live now yeah there's no reason you can't start doing things that make you happier there's the strike's going to be over you will work again you'll be doing those things but in the meantime now's a chance to work on you now's a chance to find out what makes you tick what makes you sad what what drives you what holds you back it's like work on all that that should be your mission now that's your work do that and try to fill your schedule with things to do you know go to new york more often. How often do you go to New York? I'm going next Friday, Saturday, Sunday, whatever day.

What are you going to do? You're going to go see some shows? After Salt Lake City, I'm going to New York. And you're going to go see some shows, I'm sure. Sure. And you love that. Yes. But when you're sitting there watching it, you're like, I want to do this. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Are you, do you feel like you're more critical as an actor watching other actors? Or are you able to sit back and really just enjoy things? I remember there's this thing that when I was doing Lisbon Traviata, I was studying about callas. And she said, you can learn from anybody, good or bad, good and bad. So, you know, I've tried to look at that. If there are, you know, some actors that are doing something that's not honest or truthful or whatever,

I try to look at it and think, well, da-da-da-da-da-do-do-do. right yeah yeah right so what he's doing is so you just learn from everyone yeah but you still enjoy shows you go to shows and you really enjoy them sure yeah is it like a whole night out that you and adam have a nice dinner you go see a show well sometimes yeah it depends i mean that some stuff i see on my own um very rarely usually we we look at those things together uh but uh yeah what about what about shows here. What about Los Angeles? What about there's so many shows they're doing here at the Pantages and things. Why do you go to more shows here? You know, I don't rightly know. And I'm glad I came here today. So, yeah, we should go see some stuff here. I would go see a show with you. Yeah.

I think that would be a blast. Yeah. Doesn't that sound like fun? You're like, what am I going to do this week? Well, I'm going to go have lunch with an old friend. I'm going to go to this park that I haven't been to. There's so many places that I haven't even been to, and I need to do these things, too. So, you know, I think sometimes we have to open up her eyes and just, and there's more to it than just what's in front of us. You know, a lot of times I'm in my house, and I'm like, okay, I just interviewed John. I guess I'll take a nap. I like naps. Do you nap?

Sometimes. What time do you go to bed? around 10 or so and you wake up at 6 yeah that's a long day that's a long day yeah it is it's hard to fill your days no matter what I mean look at Ryan over here don't ask him a question because he can't talk like you know you know he probably has days where he just bored off his ass and he's a lot younger than we are bastard son of a bitch do you do you uh look you're known a lot well in the film world not so much in the theater world as being of like playing great villains do you love playing villains was there a time in your life you're like well i don't want to play

the villain anymore i don't want to play that bad guy i don't want to i want to play you know this or did you how how did you work with that i don't know what i i'm kale what's a critic's name from the new yorker all i remember is can be kale Yeah, she called me, in the New Yorker, she called me the prime rotter of the 80s. The prime rotter, meaning rotten characters? Yeah, yeah, villains, yeah, prime rotter of the 80s. That's awesome. I know, it was awesome.

Well, how could you, yeah. Yeah, but the villains move the play along. Yes, they do. They're the most interesting. They're the most interesting. Yeah. Especially when there's subtext and there's development in the character and reasons. why the character is bad.

All that stuff. You used to play Lionel Luther, and you always told me, and it just resonated throughout the run of the show, for me, was that you have good intentions. You're like, I'm not evil. I love my son. Yeah, because people, you know, the villains, they don't, I mean, nobody, yeah, they don't think they're old. But see, but they started writing, they were going to make me a villain.

when we started. And I thought, well, no, no, no. And this was when I was studying with Milton, when all that happened. And he would use to say, you're not going to get this all together, just start sneaking this stuff in. So that's what I started doing.

Because I realized, no, this man is a father, and he's trying to make his son a better, stronger man. And slowly the writers started picking up on that. yes and and going with it so i felt i felt i had a lot of power with them i don't know if there's a character that we talk about more than you on the show about how much your performance like we talk about a net's performance a lot but you we always talk about on our other podcast how much you bring there's a there's an episode well we'll bring that up later but there's there's just these moments where somehow you feel for Lionel even though you hate him he does these things to you

or to people to other characters and then you're oh but the way you play it it's so ambiguous it's so uh subtextual or whatever it's so uh just it's it's layered it's not just bad bad bad because it's easy to play that and how many roles do you see where a lot of times you're like oh that guy's just bad i saw this movie they remade fright night too i know i'm a big horror movie nut nut i have the poster tom holland signed it but they made fright night too and i liked the movie but the thing i thought didn't work was the lead character that was originally played by chris sarandon who we both love uh Chris Sarandon played the next-door neighbor, who was the villain, was such charm. And you liked him.

And, but he was so bad. He was the bad vampire. And in this one, they just, he was just bad. And it just wasn't, didn't have near the impact. And so that shows you that a lot of times it's in the writing. If they would have written a scene or something showing that he wasn't, he was layered and Chris something right and a lot of writers failed to do that and the fact that they said they started catering towards that um that sort of gift that you brought to show um you know i've never done a

character they've set seven years because they they killed me in in um i killed you yeah i know and that was i killed you and i and i talked to the writers and i said listen when you do write me off let licks kill me, because I figured that that would really be who you became. That was the thing that pushed me over the, no, but intended, pushed you out of window. Yeah, yeah. You told them that. I asked them, I said, listen, when you kill me, let Lex do it, and they bought it. That was one of the most pinnacle moments of the show.

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Bring out your adventurous side. Mitsubishi Motors, drive your ambition. To me, for my character anyways. For us. Yeah, for us. And the look you get. me it was almost like i remember doing the scene with you i remember and i don't remember a lot but we're standing there and i'm about to push you and you just looked at me like letting go and when you're

falling out the window sorry for spoiler alerts for ryan did you know that happens yeah anyway he uh you fall and just the look in your eye it's almost like you're at peace with it like it's time it was time And this is the way I wanted to go. It was just, I don't know, it was enigmatic and heavy. But you always brought that. And it always, like, because I would get bored. I would do scenes with certain people or, you know, and it was like, oh, I'm going to the bar. I'm getting another drink.

I'm sitting at my desk. I'm getting knocked out. I'm going, you know, this, that, the love triangle. But when I saw that I had a scene with you, I knew it was going to be 10 times better than it was on the page. because we were going to bring it. We were good together. We were good together. We were really good together.

Yeah, we were. There was, yeah, there was an excitement. Did you enjoy, if you look back, do you think you really loved working on Smallville? Was it something that you go, you know, this was a, many years of my life that I spent on this show and playing this character? It's probably one of the most well-known characters you played, right? Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. You loved it.

And then, you know, then. then seven i was gone and then nine and ten yeah they made him just a villain the writers were they didn't i was i was so excited that when they said an alternate universe that they were going to come up with some great stuff but they just played out and out stereotypical villain so you didn't like that no did you tell them what did you say yeah they it was beyond them they had yeah there was no imagination in that alternate universe yeah well at least

you had seven good years remember you were I had seven great years I really were I had a ball it's the longest I've ever played one part what was the second brimstone oh they pulled the plug so fast on that show really yeah

well what was the second long what other shows were you on for one this was the longest because mostly you were filming in theater I was what mostly you did film in theater so you didn't do a lot of like tv series where you were regular yeah yeah you played parts like you were in law and order right yeah yeah different part done many many parts but i've never spent seven years with the same character same character so it was one and it was wonderful because they were writing good stuff until nine and ten came yeah that's why i left in seven

when alan miles left and you know christin was leaving uh john schneider was there already dead. I'd already killed you. I'm like, there's nothing left for me. There's nothing left for Lex to do here. He doesn't have this antagonist anymore. He doesn't have the antagonist of John Schneider's character who always had a thing for Lex. It was just sort of, I need to move on. I need to move on. And you moved. And it was funny because I remember the president of the studio took me to dinner and said, what will make you stay for another three years? I said, nothing. And he was so insulted.

He goes, look at Julianne Marguerlis. I go, what about her? Well, what is she done since ER or whatever it was? And I go, and now, fast forward, she did the good wife and got awards and is making so much money. But he was just, you know, using whatever tactic he could to get me to stay. And then I said, well, you know, just made me an offer. And they offered me the same money. Not a dime more.

is that how you get somebody to come back for three years you just say hey you're mowing my lawn right i know you want to mow someone else's lawn but you know if you mow my lawn for three more years i'm going to give you the same money i don't know if it's the best analogy but you get what i'm saying but uh yeah i said no i said no on that um this is awesome i feel like this is just having a conversation right that's what we're doing yeah i mean i really didn't think of what i was going to talk to you about i just felt like i'm just going to talk to john when he's here we've gotten to therapy we've gotten into your days you've gotten into your you know getting older um does does adam do you guys you've been together so long since what 80 30 years 30 years yeah do you call each other out on

whatever you don't even hesitate you're like john you're being an asshole john this adam you're being a dick do you guys say that uh huh and you talk it out yeah we're learning sometimes but we're yeah well we get we're better i mean it's taken a while to to really iron them out but we get through them what's the key to a good relationship or one that lasts 30 years what do you think honesty i guess do you think you weren't always honest in the beginning and throughout you just it's sort of developed yeah yeah yeah yeah who's the best actor you ever worked with oh the one that just sticks in your mind you're like this this is this is the best actor i've ever worked with besides me oh boy you know i i i wanted uh uh it's almost that i did and i

chickened out to geraldine page had a company she worked for a little company right she made no money but she did all these plays that she wanted to do and there were they were with some replacements because I worked with her in White Nights. Yeah. And so I guess it would be Geraldine Page. Because last night we watched Sweet Bird of Youth. Have you ever seen her to do that? No.

Okay, you've got to watch her do Sweet Bird of Youth sometime. She does the film of it. And she's just genius. But she offered me, she wanted me to, when this one guy was leaving, to replace him. And I thought, I don't know if I could do it without a rehearsal period. So I made up a lie that I had another job

and couldn't do it. When was this? It was years ago. Years ago. Yeah. You regret that? Yeah, because I could have worked with her. You know, in a, I mean, when we did the movie,

it was, I mean, I played, we were in the same scenes together. But it wouldn't have been, like, really playing with her. Right. So I regret that I was chicken that I didn't know. But it was because I didn't know if I could pick it up out of midair and without a rehearsal period. Yeah. Fear. Fear got in the way.

Yeah. Well, fear gets in the way. Sometimes I think fear is okay. Sometimes fear is telling yourself. Usually it's because, you know, you don't think you could do it and you should try to overcome that fear but sometimes fear kind of tells you this is going to be a lot of work a lot of stress it's going to fucking kill you it's going to be like exhausting mentally and physically do you want to do that do you want to feel like that but no i don't so i'm not going to do it but but but but i like

to work so much that i probably would have done it right but it was that it was just the fact of of of going in being thrown into it without a real rehearsal period right but who's the best the best actor you've worked with you think geraldine page is the best actor based on the movie you did with her or is there someone else whether you did a play when you won your tonies uh someone you were like this was one of the best actors i've ever worked with i've well i i've worked with so many good actors i but i don't know nothing rings as the most special one. Right. Just a lot of good actors.

Yeah. Have you worked with any actors that it was miserable to work with them? Yes. Where it just was not fun. Yes. Was Bill Murray one of them? No. Oh, okay.

He was in Scrooge, right? Oh, no, he was great to work with. He was. Oh, yeah. I mean, there was one line that after we was walking, Anyway, I couldn't figure, the line in the, they wrote didn't make much sense or anything. But right after lunch, he just said, I got it, this is it, say this, right. So right when he was, I was walking him to the elevator and I knew what the line was and everything.

And just, just as the elevator door was closing, I threw the line at him. And you could see him go like that. He was terrific. I loved working with Bill Murray. Really? Oh, yeah. Why? Does he have a reputation?

No, well, you hear some stuff, but he's one of the legendary, you know, actors. But, like, you know, some things came out. And some people have told me he's not the most pleasant person to work with. Oh, I found he was great. Yeah. Great. I like that. Who was an actor that, I mean, you don't have to throw it.

Maybe, hopefully they've died. I'm not going to name anybody that I didn't like. Is there someone who intimidated you? I know I can't think of anybody because I usually sort of know what I wanted to do yeah with it you know yeah and I'm alive to I saw Geraldine Page in one of these plays that at that little theater where she made no money just doing these things and there was a moment she had it was an Ibsen play it was about the son I think there's somebody get syphilis or somebody and there was this moment that she did with her son where you thought

I mean, she was trying to love him, but she sort of went like something. I can't describe what it was, but it was something, it was something that was just so whatever. And when we were flying back from when we were doing white nights, we were flying back on the airplane together. And she was talking about, you know, Rip, her husband and da-da-da, and this play and that play. And I said, there was this moment with your son in the play.

and she said, oh, that boy, he used to drive me crazy. I hated acting with him. And what I saw was herself being, but it worked in the play. Being upset with him. Yeah. But it worked. She used it. Yeah.

I mean, she hated working with him and probably he said something that was like, blah, blah, blah. Something. She was like, oh. Yeah, she just took it away. She was in the moment. I mean... Did you, when you were younger, when you started doing plays, did you want to be famous?

It was not fame. I wanted to be an actor. But you didn't care if you were famous. You just wanted to be an actor. Well, the famous part would be nice. But, I mean, yeah. Yeah. But that was not my...

It wasn't your goal. My goal was to play parts, to be in plays. But I think that's partly true. I think that we... you know like we talked about earlier the validation you get and like that feeling you get when people immediately respond to you and like you and validate you and the audience i think that it comes with that it's almost like i i love this and i want to be great and with that i want to be famous and do all these big parts and people to know me did you want people to recognize you and

know you and and give you adoration that's not bad no that's not bad no that's pretty good but it was it to have to do with something where where uh you know you get this adoration you get this and with that because you become you get the fame you get the fame and you get you get both if you're a good actor if you're good enough you'll be famous and was there a point where you thought i should be more famous i'm like you had such an ego did you ever have such an ego where you're like i'm so good i'm a tony award winner twice i should be getting these bigger roles why am I not being considered for these blockbuster movies? I only won one, Tony.

Oh. I was nominated for two. Oh, yeah. And I only won one. Oh, okay. But did you ever get thinking cocky where I think we've all thought that? At once, one time I thought I should get a press agent to, you know, to sort of, yeah. So I guess I did.

Promote you and give you more than you more. Right. But I thought if I did, I could get maybe better jobs. right so so i don't know what it was did you but i do i mean i've written oh here's what it was there's this show that was uh once upon a one more time it was all the once upon a time no once upon a one more time oh it was a musical with all of brittany uh what was spares spires oops did she do oops i did it again okay so but it had nothing to do with that It was a, but that was a song in it, but the male song sang it.

I had to get out of it because I, Adam was sick and I, and he said, I need you to take care of me. It was going to open in Washington, D.C. So I got out of the, I had to quit the show. Oh. I decided to. It was a very decision, but it was my partner, my life partner. And he wanted, didn't want to be separated because he needed me to take care of him. Yeah. And, and I remember I've, I wrote a couple of, like, letters or whatever, or somehow, or found their emails and, and, and, and, uh, complimented their performances.

And, and I heard back from them, oh, my God, coming from you, I think you're a wonderful actor. I mean, that's, that to me makes me very happy if other actors, it goes back to, yeah, when I wouldn't take. an acting class because i thought the other actors would would laugh at me or or not laugh at me if i was being or would judge me so so to hear from a fellow actor go i'm this coming from you who makes me so happy yeah i mean it just that your colleagues your your peers yeah when they yeah i feel the same way all right this is called shit talking with john glover it's rapid fire these from the top tier I love you, go to patreon.com slash inside of you. I have to think fast.

Rapid fire. You just have to answer fast. Oh, no, no, no. You don't have to be, you can answer it as slow as you want. Okay, all right. Nathan, do you wish your walking dead character had become the Negan? Is that the character? Negan of the spinoff.

Do you hope to one day have a role like Negan and be a visceral bad guy? Negan. Was that the character I play? Megan. No, he was. No, it was Bobby. No, anyway. Oh, no, no, I know what he's saying.

He's saying like the Negan of the spinoff. Like, Negan was a big role. And so do you want to be like the Negan of the spinoff? See, I didn't watch the show, so I didn't know what that is. But do you wish the Walking Dead character had become a lot bigger? Well, yeah, I think they, I was sad that they killed me off so soon. I thought there was a lot going that I, that they could have, yeah, I wanted to stay on the show longer. David P. John, you're an amazing man. I have no questions, but just want to thank you for your amazing

talent and sharing it with us. Well, who said that? Dave P. Who's Dave P? He's my patron. Tell Dave you love him and thank you. Dave, I love you and thank you. Perfect. Gen T. Your partner is an incredible artist. Are there any artistic hobbies outside of acting that you like to partake in during your free time? Well, scarf making. Scarf making. Yes. Leanne, if you could go back and give your younger self a piece of advice, what would it be and why? Well, if Geraldine Page wanted you to play with her, I would play with her now. She found it. Yeah.

That's amazing. Michelle Kay, out of all the amazing roles, you've had the opportunity to play, what one has stuck with you the most and why? This could be your own thoughts of like, which role that you're like, this was the role. for me. This is the role that I loved, loved playing. This is the one that sticks with me. You know, I did this movie several marches ago. It was

in March, I remember. It's called the home. It was James Demerre James Demonico. Right. Did you watch those purge movies? Do you wear these purge movies? I know them. Well, they scared the

crap out of me. But he wrote this movie called the home and it takes about an old age hole. and I was a resident of the home but I also taught an act and I was an off-broadway actor and I taught a class an acting class to the other residents

in the home and and I thought this part was when I read the script he offered it to me and I read the script and I thought how does he know me so well? I mean this guy wow yeah

it's not it's not been they don't they're looking for a distributor of it it's called the home you've seen it no i've seen it yet but i i want to see it now well i want to see it now too they said they'd get when i got to new york they'd screen it for me so i could see it oh good yeah you got to let me know how that goes i will i will you seem excited about it i was i was so excited about it i even did a uh one scene where um where i was naked but but naked really yeah they don't show anything I remember her, them saying, because they were talking about the way the scene was set up and the way the camera moved. And I heard the one woman was, two women, camera men, the camera operators, and said, well, okay.

No, the chair is hiding his penis, so we don't see his penis there. Are you happy with your penis? Well, it could be a little larger. Okay. All right. Raj, tell me about a recent time you felt war. Free. When I was doing this part, I just told you about.

Really? That's when you just kind of... Well, because I felt it was me. I thought, how does he know me so well? Yeah. It was, and I had a great time, waking, making, making that movie. Rachel D. Okay.

John, I was fortunate to see you on Broadway and Nikolai and the others. Do you have any plans for future stage work? Is there a dream role you'd love to play on stage? well you said that already prospero yeah there you go okay um anybody else there want to make a do a tempest man that's a tough play yeah oh it's so beautiful though so look you have a lot to talk about with your therapist thanks to you well i have a lot to talk about with mine it's it's just part of the you know at least there's not so much of stigma not as much of a stigma attached to therapy and you know being less than or feeling less than it's like for so many years it's just like you know i felt like uh i

i don't i shouldn't my dad doesn't go to therapy he doesn't do that he must be a real man and i'm like no dude you want to become a better human being talk to someone get rid of your shit you want to feel better uh about yourself and you deserve we all deserve to you know to love each other and all that but i love you i do mutual seriously i i love you and i would be there for you in a second if you needed me and i feel the same way about you you're my baby yeah thank you thank you dad this is always a pleasure and uh thanks for getting so personal and deep and honest with me thanks thank you michael michael well i love you johnny glover you're a tremendous tremendous talent tremendous man and um i really really appreciate you so thanks for coming on again and supporting your

boy i love you why don't we uh get into the top tiers let us do it top tiers these are the top tiers they get their name shouted out in every episode they support the podcast by going to patreon com slash talkville or patreon dot com slash inside of you become a member today become a patron today and we love you without you guys i couldn't do this and a big shout out to my producer bryce who i love and and jason and ryan who's here do the show that you guys love you Ryan are you good I'm good yeah I got up early this morning and I'm tired

and we're recording this in late afternoon and we generally don't yeah and that's why we're tired yeah it's hard to get through it but it's it's fun when we know we have a good 11 am. 10 a.m. start yeah oh I'm so tired but today yeah and also it's November we're recording this on November first I don't know look it's November has just started and it feels like

the end of the year already and I'm sad you know yeah I know I'm kind of happy that for the next two months i don't have a ton of stuff to do yeah um not for the most part i hope everybody's healthy and happy and uh i also want to give one of my best friends who i love and adore and is a big supporter of this podcast Alex fatovich i want to give her all my love and i want you to give all your prayers because her her papa passed away and um she loved him dearly and he was an awesome awesome man i got to meet him a few times and he was what an energy ball of energy. And Alex, I'm almost tearing up, but I'm not going to do it. I love you and I'm

thinking about you. And we'll help you get through this. We will. There's a lot of love. Here are the top tier shoutouts. Nancy D. Leah and Kristen, little Lisa, E, Kiko. Nancy D, it was good to see you in Orlando. Damn good. You Kiko. J. L.E., Brian H. I miss you, Brian. We got to go to a concert. Nico P. I miss you. Robert B. I I missed you. I'm going to just say it to everybody. Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C. Joshua D. Jennifer N. Stacey L. F. Janelle B. Ashley L. Dan Supremo. 90 more. Santiago M. I got the statue. Chad W. Leanne P. Matty S. Belinda N. David Hila G. Brad D. Rehaada. Tabitha T. Tom Antalya M. Betsy D. Reanne and C. Corey K. Dev Nexon. Michelle A. Jeremy C. Brandy D. Joey M. Eugene and L. Leah. So good seeing you in D.C. and all the rest of you. Corey, Angela F. Mel S. Christine S. Eric H. Shane R. Andrew M. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Jorel. Jamminjee. Leanne J. Luna R. Mike F. Stone H. Stay wild. Munchile. Brian L. Kendall L. Caracy. Jessica B. Kyle F. Marisol P. Kaley J. Brian A. Ashley F. Mary and Louise L. Romeo B. Frank B. Gen T. Nikki L.

Did we say Little Lisa? I don't see your name on here. April R. Randy S. Derek N. J.D.W. Orl P. Ginger Insomniac. Rachel D. L. Lerla, L. Melissa, Nicholas W. Stephanie and Evan. Charlene A. Don G. Do we not say Little Lisa? Little Lisa is in the three spot. As per usual. Was she? Yeah. Did I say that? Not clean up today, but she's a bat in third. Oh, Lil Lisa. Lillisa. Thanks for the shirt too. Well, Lisa. Thank you. Everybody who sends me things.

some people send me things and it's like a stop stop sending me things you're too nice and you don't need to i have enough stuff you're so nice gosh all right thank you so much for listening i love you um for the hollywood hills in hollywood california i am michael rozenbaum i'm ryan tails a little wave to the camera yeah be good to yourself please just do it love yourself it's the holidays coming up it's important and we'll see you next week Hi, I'm Joe Sallsee. I host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice.

Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's, follow and listen on your favorite platform.