Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Jon Cryer

Episode Date: March 19, 2019

Jon Cryer (Two and a Half Men, Supergirl, Pretty in Pink) discusses the impact his parents' divorce had on him as a four-year-old, how his father being out of the house stunted his masculinity and coming into his own as a feminine intellectual dork. Jon gets brutally honest about his experience with Charlie Sheen and where their relationship is at now, how much he loved Gene Hackman as Lex Luthor as a kid, and the inside scoop on playing the new Lex Luthor on Supergirl. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Hooray! Hooray! Array! Array! The Conjuring, last rights, only in theater September 5th. You're listening to Insight of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rob Hollis is here with me.

Michael Rosenbaum is here with me. Michael Rosenbaum is here with me. A lot of cool stuff to talk about, Rob, before we get into this great interview, because this is, I thought it was pretty fascinating. Well, I didn't. You did you, you're right. Well, first of all, I want to say thanks to all the fans for, you know, when you guys are following the show, please subscribe, please write a review.

It really helps the show. Podcasts are free, and we're trying to keep them that way. and we love what we're doing. We're trying to make it so Michael doesn't have to go sign up for a movie, doesn't want to do. Well, I would just like to do this. To tell you the truth, if I could get more people listening to this podcast, this is therapy for me.

I know it's therapy for a lot of people out there, and I love you for listening. So we're just trying to grow the audience. So tell your friend, tell your mom, if you sit down with your family at dinner, just have everybody grab their phone, subscribe to the podcast, write a review, and this thing's going to start blowing up. And we'll do more and more interviews. We'll get bigger and better guests. I don't know if that's possible because the guests are pretty,

amazing like the one today but thank you for all the kind support uh throw out to fat scooters who uh just brought me the most dopest little fat just check their fat scooters out you got to get one i'm gonna get you guys a code hopefully to get a discount on these things but they're incredible our guest today uh rob did you know a lot about john crier no i mean i i knew he was on two and a half men that's good i did not watch that show but my brother and dad watched he was in pretty in pink yeah he's done a lot of shows he's in ryan hansson solves crimes. Yeah, I love Ryan Hanson.

Got to throw out Ryan Hanson. He's been through a lot in terms of, like, you know, shows that didn't last. And I can also been on a show that lasts a long time to. I can relate, but he waited and waited and persevered and then got two and a half men. What's great is he's so candid and open about talking about Charlie Sheen and the shit that took place, which I didn't, I, you know, I was just going to talk about Lex Luthor and him appearing on Supergirl as Lex Luthor, which is pretty freaking cool. So it was Lex Luthor, interviewing Lex Luthor. But then he started opening up about Charlie Sheen and the, and his experience. And it wasn't like, I think, you know, no matter what he says, he's so genuine that it comes off.

Like, he just is a guy that wants to work and enjoy life and enjoy people around him. And there was some, you guys know the deal with what happened. And the whole show kind of fell apart and with Ashton coming back on. So he'll tell that story. And he's very open. I didn't expect him to get as open as he was. and he talks about being in drag, which I've been in drag many times, as you know.

You're in drag right now. Yeah. And, of course, we talk about Lex Luthor and the... What was Lex Luthor? Lex Luthor was a supervillain, one of the, probably the best supervillains in fantasy or... Oh, that Gene Hackman one. He was my favorite, yeah.

I think he's... The quintessential. Yeah. No one should have done it. No one should have done it after him. I think nobody should have done it after him until a certain person came along. Oh.

Jesse. Eisenberg. You'll enjoy this interview. We talk about Lex Luthor. We talk about Supergirl. We talk about expectations. We talk about how hard it is to do a new role when people are expecting so much and how he takes it in stride and just a great guy.

We talk about how he showed up a week early to the podcast. Let's not give it all away. Let's get to this interview. Let's get inside of John Cryer. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. It's, hey, I saw that episode.

You're looking at an episode from, it was an episode of Smallville called Onyx where I wore that mask, right? I think. Yes, it was the one where you split into two lexes. Yeah. Yeah. Why did you watch that? Well, because I used to see the show. Right.

You know, I wasn't, I mean, I didn't see every episode. Sure. I watched every episode of two and a half man, you fuck. It's got ugly very quickly here, folks. No, I remembered that episode, partially because, you know, obviously I'm playing Lex Luthor on Supergirl. Yes, you are. First of all, what was great about the Lex, as presented by Smallville, was he was a very nuanced character. He was very, you know, it was a little bit of a departure from the comics.

You know, I guess it would be closest to the... the superboy Lex Luthor. In terms of like, you see his journey. Yes, you see evil as you see young Clark kept becoming, you know, Superman. Yes, exactly. So it's, you sound like you knew your comic books, like, before you got this role. Yes, to a certain extent. Not, obviously, I've delved into Luther a little more recently.

And then I, uh, you've got a great head. Thank you. Like you've got a really wonderful shaped dome. Is it called a pate? Is that what it is? It is called a Pate. A Pate. Yes.

And my wife is a very big fan of it as well. And actually, when I was first approached about it, when the producers called me, I was, first of all, I thought, why me? I wouldn't be the first person I would choose to play. Wait, wait, wait. They came to you first. Yes. And it was a weird, circuitous thing, actually.

First, I got an email from Bill Prady, who is one of the producers of Big Bang Theory. Right. who said, want to let you know, I've been hearing through the grapevine that you're about to get asked to play a character that rhymes with Schmex Schmuthor. And I was like, what on earth is he talking about? You didn't believe it. I did not believe it. Then I got a text from an old friend of mine from Summer Camp who said, one of the producers

of Supergirl is looking to talk to you. What? And why are, you know, I was like, this is a very unconventional approach. You know, they find my old friends from summer camp. He said, hey, can I give her your number? I said, sure. And then Jessica Quiller, who's one of the executive producers on the thing, said, I just happen to know some of your old friends from summer camp.

I swear to God. And would you be interested in being Lex Luthor on the show? Because D.C. is only letting us have him for three episodes. So we're trying to make it into a big deal. You know, it's funny is, you know, online people are like, are you going to play Lex Luthor on Supergirl? No one ever asked me to do any of this. No one ever.

So people are still like, why aren't you doing this? I'm like, well, the one asks me. There's that big hole in the plan. And, you know, by the way, first of all, uh, something funny happened that I got to tell you folks out there. Last week I was sitting at my computer wearing probably the same sweatpants as I am today. I like to be comfortable. Thank you.

Thank you. Um, and I see at the door on my, my, you know, the cameras, the security cameras that there's a, uh, you know, a bald man. at the door and I think oh it's probably a delivery could be anything so I kept writing stalker and all of a sudden a good looking bald man comes up and walks into the office with my assistant Jess and I look at him and I go oh shit that's John Cryer and he's a week early I okay you know timelines have never been my strong suit so yeah no no you know you You said, hey, let's get together on Tuesday, and, uh, but you did specifically in the email

say exactly which Tuesday you wanted us to get together. But my mind only listened to the, oh, Tuesday, which I just assumed was the next Tuesday, but it wasn't the next Tuesday. So I, you know, what's funny is I am always wrong. Rob, you can attest to that. He's over there. He's on the microphone. But, um, I, I get things wrong.

My mind is all over the place. So I need people to just be very understanding with me because I don't mean to. I'm like, well, what's this? We're like, did you read your email? I'm like, not all. of it that's kind of me I'm a scatterbrain and so I need people who are patient go dude this is

but you you were it was so funny you're so kind we walked around the house we talked for a bit and it was like I don't know I thought it was just it was endearing it was sweet it was like I felt back because I was like you're not going to come back next week now yeah you're busy you don't have time for me that I'm coming back no you know

this is this is not sadly this is not atypical for me I I love having a lot of things going on but I'm actually not good at keeping track of them. You showed up to the set a week early for lecture at 3rd. Yes, exactly. Ready guys?

We're not ready for you. Let's start shooting this. No, that did not occur, thankfully. I have to always have a bunch of things going at once, or I just feel bereft. I feel lost as a performer. Explain that to me. Do you feel like if you really don't have a lot going on,

do you get depressed? It takes a while to sneak up on me, But I would say that that comes into play because you just feel, you feel irrelevant, you know, if you don't feel like you're applying. Irrelevant to whom? To whoever you're trying to reach. I mean, you know, who do you perform for? Well, when I say that, I just think, you know, my whole goal now is to try and not think of it like irrelevance as much as it is like I'm doing things for me and what I want to do and whether it is relevant to other people. people and you know i'm trying i'm sort of figuring that out now maybe it's a midlife crisis i

it could be it might be just get a nicer car you'll be but uh but you know i do notice like i just uh i went and did my buddy dax's live podcast in san antonia which rob also produces that show right rob yep which is fantastic by the way yeah show is he he's he is a magnificent host he's great and we had it was like 2,500 people and um at the majestic theater it was me Monica and Dax and we just sat there and for two hours it was just this energy and afterwards I was like oh I want to keep doing things like this I want so when I do things I feel more energetic I feel more relevant and when I don't I sort of I do slip into little bouts of anxiety funk do you get anxiety oh yes terrible anxiety still get terrible performance anxiety I do too which is crazy

why I don't there's no reason especially when I used to do to an half man which Live studio audience. Yes, live studio audience, which is a little nerve- For 10 years? For 10 years? 12 years. He said, that's a humble brag. Only 12.

12. But long as running multi-camera sitcom in the history broadcast. But anyway. No, and it actually is no longer. Big Bang Theory just passed it probably last week. But anyway, neither here nor there. I'm not angry. I like it better.

I like 2 and a half men better than Big Game. Thank you. But no. But performance anxiety, go ahead. But it was, it's ridiculous because in multi-camera comedy, you can screw up in front of the audience and the audience loves it. Yeah. They could not care less. They have a great time no matter what.

They're here to have a, they don't want you to do the show exactly as planned. You know, exactly. They want to be in Hollywood and see how the, the, the sausage is made, you know, see all the ugliness. Yeah. See the disgusting underbelly. And so that should have been. in an area in which there was no, where I was absolutely free and just enjoying myself and performing the comedy I love with writing that I loved, by the way, the wonderful writing on that show.

Terrific. But you got nervous. But, but no, every Friday, a basket case. Every Friday. Isn't that something? Why? Why? John, you and I have the same problem because this is what I don't understand.

I tell people this. I go and do stand up and if I kill it, if I do really well. but then I wake up and the whole next day is stressed out, freaking out about the next night that I'm going to do it. And it's like, well, it doesn't make sense. If you did well at something, what's the psychology? There's got to be a psychologist out there. Please, if you can help me, help John.

We should be like more confident with what we're doing. We killed it. There's no reason for the next Friday in a 12-year show. You're doing all these episodes. You should have eventually just been so comfortable by the 50th Friday. Absolutely. And you weren't. And I was not. And I was not. Usually for me, it was because there was bits I really wanted to do really well. So I would be overthinking it and thinking, okay, how am I going to, you know, do this? But for me also, I couldn't tell if the anxiety informed the character in a good way. Wow. Because I always, I always play anxious characters. I mean, that was one of the things that's fun about Lex is that he's not anxious. He's not anxious. Which probably gave you anxiety.

no i had i had a blast i felt uh i felt honestly more comfortable and confident playing lex than than anything i've done we're going to talk about that but i'm going to save that so people just keep listening in here okay because we're going to talk about the episode and your experience at the end because i definitely want to talk about that but i think it probably stems from childhood right were you always sort of a were you nervous kid were you did you get anxiety oh yes were you picked on um i was picked on a bit you know i wasn't like a i was a little chunk of You know, I wasn't. You were chunky? Yeah, I wasn't. I recall a couple of instances of bullying, but nothing terrible, you know, nothing, nothing like that a lot of people, a lot of people experience much worse than I. And so, but I, I never felt confident. I never felt, uh, worthy. Yeah, I never felt, uh, like at home in my own skin, uh, growing up. I don't know why. Did your dad tell you he loved you? Uh, yes, he did. Um, my parents were divorced. So I, I could, go and blame it on that perhaps sure how old how old were you going to have i was four and i'm and i was

vaguely i was only vaguely aware of a lot of it but um but that being said who knows uh you know i i think it's just part of my being i persona because so many times in my life i revert to that even when the external triggers aren't there you know i think it's just me is is there a feeling of I mean, there's probably there's different versions of anxiety. Is it like, I'm not good enough? I've got to prove myself. Or is it just something innate?

There's something that's just part of you that... It's just something innate. Usually what I will do is I'll fixate on an external problem that needs to be solved somehow. Like what? Or like my co-star is having a mental breakdown on the internet. That's only happened on one show. Granted, it lasted 12 years.

It was Ashton Coucher, right? Yes, Ashton, you called it. Sorry, Ashton. Sorry, I got to out you, Ashon. But no, but my point being like some, I, you know, I would go through some drama and I would fixate on the external aspect of that. But then when it was solved in some way, I would just move on to another one. Another problem. Yes.

That for some reason, you know, I needed to worry about. And then I, and so I've looked at it. and said, you know what? Maybe I just need to worry. There's just this part of me that needs to be hyper aware of my surroundings. Boy. And always trying to figure out how am I going to get screwed. I mean, if you're embracing that, if you're embracing that, maybe that's a real healthy thing to do. It's like, hey, I'm neurotic. I'm a neurotic Jew. I freak out about everything. If I just embrace this and just let everything go and know that this is how my, then when anxiety comes, it's just anxiety. It's just part of me.

It may be that's it. I don't have the benefit of being Jewish, so I don't have that cultural information. Cryer? What is Cryer? What is Crier is probably Welsh? I am, I recently did that whole ancestry thing, and they actually, I did a show called Who Do You Think You Are, where they give you a book that is this incredibly encyclopedic. Yeah, you see that with other celebrities, right? Yeah, yeah, and it's an incredibly encyclopedic look into your ancestry, and I,

am Scottish as fuck. I am so Scottish. It's crazy. Really? And I did not know that. I assumed that I was from, you know, generally Great Britain in that area, but, but it's super duper, who, Scottish. I could see it. If you grew a bigger beard and it starts talking like this, this, yes. You could fucking do it. I, yeah, I don't know, don't have, you know, the, the classic red hair or I'm not comfortable in kilts. Have you put on a kilt before? I have not. I have. Okay.

How did you feel? We've got one. We've got one. Do I have a kilt? I think I do have a kilt. Let's get it. No, if it's your kilt, that just feels wrong. And I free ball.

See, you don't want any part of that. That's the whole point of a kilt. That's my understanding. Yeah, they breathe. You could just breathe. Yeah, you're wearing a skirt, but your balls are. Hanging out there. Fresh.

Yes. Hello, ladies. So you got along with your mom. You got along with your dad. They were split up, but did they get along? Or they did. And the hardest thing was my dad was a performer, was an actor. He remains an actor, even at 80 plus years old, still auditions for stuff.

And he moved to California. That was the hardest thing when I was, he moved when I was about six years old. And I grew up in New York City. So that was the hardest thing was that he remarried and moved away because, you know, that was sort of the next phase of his career was trying to. make his way in the movie business. And how old were you? I was six, and that happened until I was about 15.

Then he moved back to New York, actually, when I was about 15. Because in those years, though, you feel abandoned, no matter what. Yeah. And what had happened at one point, you know, when my dad had moved out, you know, obviously there was the abandonment issues and all that stuff. But then at one point, he tried to move back in. But at that point, my mom was done. And my mom said, no, thanks.

Wait, so he was like, I want to be. make this work? Yeah. And my mom no longer did. Shut him down. Yeah. And I totally get it. They've remained on good terms, but you know what? They should never have been married. Does he still want to go there? Does he still try to creep in every once in a while? No, no. He's remarried. I love my stepmom. Well, the crazy thing is my mom and my stepmother are great friends. Who are you? I know. My mother and father hate each other. Oh, no. I'm sorry. They haven't talked in 15 years. My mom just hates, I mean, do you don't understand? My mom and my sister don't talk. My mom and my brother don't talk. My mom and my dad don't talk. We barely talk. It's the most dysfunctional. Oh, I'm so sorry.

Oh, yeah. But you're talking about two people that get divorced and now their their partners are all friends and they talk and they. Oh, yeah. How lucky and weird is that? My half brothers and sisters, my stepmother's children with my dad used to live in my mom's house occasionally. I swear to God. What it was was my mom and my dad loved each other, were great friends. They came from small towns in the Midwest to the big city. We're in the Midwest. My dad from Ohio, my mom from Indiana. I'm from Indiana.

I grew up in Indiana. Oh, well, there you go. Okay. I used to go for my summers there with my grandparents all the time in Dunreith, Indiana, which is, yeah, it's tiny. There's eight people in Dunnree. There's a filling station. And that's all you need. That's it.

That's all you need. They loved each other, absolutely. but the reason they got married was because everybody was just saying, hey, when are you two getting married? You know, they probably should never have been married. And, you know, my dad wanted to be a performer and, you know, actually, actually he started as a minister. She thought she was going to be a minister's wife. And then he realized, no, I'm an actor. Was she his first?

Yeah, I believe so. Wow. I believe so. So, you know, he basically wasn't made for that relationship. And so when they split up, he fell in love with my stepmother, but felt bad about leaving the kids, you know, and at one point tried to move back in or hoped to move back in. And my mom said, no, you know what, we're better separate. You know, this was, by the way, blockbuster information to me because all of a sudden I understood why my stepmother wanted to move to California in addition to the career thing was, you know, you've got a guy who still wants to. move back in with his kids, you know.

So it's really a, a, a, a very, eye opener. Yeah, it was a big eye opener. And all of a sudden, I understood the motivations of everybody involved. Right. Don't you wish that, you know, like Sandler would have done in Wedding Singer, information I could have used yesterday. Exactly. Right.

Well, no, you know what? I understand why parents don't fill their kids in on every aspect of, of why they're getting divorced. You know, there's some stuff the kids can't process. My parents didn't need to tell me anything. I was pretty much aware when my dad, oh, boy, I got some stories. So you got them contemporaneously. You were aware as this stuff was going on.

I just was like, what is going on? There's so much passive aggression. There's so much like just you could feel the energy. The tension. Yeah, it was one of those things where my mom always needed attention. You know, she was always like, am I pretty? Am I pretty? My dad's like, yes, you're beautiful.

You're beautiful. And eventually, God. yeah you're so pretty everybody thinks you're so oh my god boys isn't your mother just pretty gosh and it got ugly and i was we were around it you know but my they were also like weird they were just like you know they well look you got to respect they told it how it was but you know they'd be like michael how are you this stupid how could you how could you not figure these math problems out how could you it was a very you in it was very very it was very very it was very very dark. I was very young. I was probably eight or nine years old. Oh, God. I don't know. But that's when

you're totally sentient through the whole thing because you really get some of the sophisticated stuff. I mean, I don't know. Sorry, man. It was just the weird thing. I was colorblind and I didn't know it. So I again, I just thought I was really dumb. I went to get tennis strings at my, at the Gus Durner Sports in Evansville, Indiana at the mall. My dad goes, what strings do you want? I go to those yellow ones. He goes, what strings do you want? I go with the yellow ones. He goes, those are green what the hell's wrong with you i'm colorblind dad i didn't know that but anyway it was like it was and i'm i'm forgiving and i you know i talk about stuff but like you pretty much had a good childhood your parents i mean this is i've never heard of anything like this where now everybody's so

close and rob you're going to say something yeah did you resent your dad when you thought he left and didn't try to come back and then um did that kind of change things no i didn't uh i didn't at the time the crazy thing was that divorce was still fairly uncommon back in those days, and I got this just overwhelming amount of sympathy from my friends and my schoolmates. So at the time, I didn't think being a child of divorce was a terrible thing. Wow. Because suddenly it defined who I was as that strong kid who went through the divorce, you know, and you survived, man. And so to me, it was like it made me special, which was ridiculous. But at the time, I don't recall feeling horrible about it. Also, by the way, my mom flourished as a single woman. She became a

playwright and had a great circle of friends and our house was just this happy place full of music. So your dad was holding her back. Well, I don't know. They were only together until I was four. So I have no idea what it was like before then. I didn't perceive it as, you know, we stayed in the same apartment. We went through some financial difficulties, but it seemed like, you know, this was the 70s in New York and everybody was going through. financial difficulties at the time. So it didn't feel like we were the only ones. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money. Period. It's Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that

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Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. it's pretty obvious why you became an actor with your dad as an actor your mom playwright you were around it you just there's no other choice i always loved it i recall going to the fantastics which was an off-broadway show one of the longest running shows ever my dad was actually in it when i was born uh is he is a great singer he is an amazing singer uh my mom is too are you a good singer i am not well okay here there's a story there too uh a crazy thing all through my youth i was always never i was never very good singer because because I couldn't breathe through my nose through all of my youth, and I can never understand why everybody was resonating in their, you know, there's a whole, you know, you go to voice classes and they're always like, you know, breathe through your mask. The idea being that you breathe through your nose and all the stuff there, and I could never do that. So my singing was always very hampered and not very good. So I just like, you know what? I'm just a, I'm a straight actor. That's what I do. I don't do. I do straight plays. But you can sing a little. Did you ever learn finally? Well, the crazy thing was probably 10 or 12 years ago, I went to a doctor who did an MRI just of my sinuses.

Deviated septum. Deviated, no, nasal polyps that totally filled up my sinuses. So there was no, there was no room in there for me to breathe. So he gave me this steroid, this corticosteroid, and suddenly I could breathe through my nose, and I could sing at the age of like 48. or something, 45, 46. And what do you like singing? What do you, what do you say? I'm a showtune guy.

You are a showtune kid and I always loved musicals, just couldn't really sing. And so suddenly I could sing, but there's tragedy ensues because then probably four or five years later, I develop a stomach problem where I've got acidy reflux all the time and it fries your vocal cords. And so I can sing now on days when my vocal cards aren't fried. So, like, doing actual musical theater is probably not a realistic. Like, what would you, do you sing any, like, 70s love songs or, like, the Eagles or? Who doesn't sing the Eagles? Don't you sing a little Chicago?

No, I'm generally, when I want to mortify my wife, it's generally... Show tunes. Like what? Like, what's a show tune? Like, you know, company. You could drive a person crazy. You could drive a person, Matt, do-do-do-do-to-do. I mean, it's the, you know, nothing masculine about that is a song sung by three women.

Listen, I love musicals. I love musicals. I love barbistrising. And I read something where you and I have something in common where some people assumed we were gay. Yes. Some people thought, Rosenbaum's gay. Uh-huh. Gay, gay as a French horn that Rosebaum.

Yeah, he's too comfortable with, you know, there's something. So I think people assume, in fact, my mother asked me once. She said, I came home from college because I was doing theater. Mm-hmm. Theatur. Theater. Is that with Dax says, Theatur? Yep.

With the British spelling. Yes. The theater. And she goes, Michael, it's okay. I have many friends that are. You can tell me, I'm very, this is a very liberal family. Mm-hmm. Are you gay?

And this is the best acting I've ever done. I go, yeah. And I let it go for about a week. And to this day, she was so much, she's like, Oh, why didn't you just tell me? Why would you? She told the whole city. So I would, still to this day, I think I come home and like Lucy or Peggy or Diane, her friends,

they'll give me that look like, mm-hmm, mm-hmm, yeah. You have a girlfriend, do you? It's called a beard. You know what I mean? But you experienced that. They know all about the gay subculture. They watch Will and Grace. Yeah, right.

They know it all. But people thought you were gay. Oh, yes. Yeah, because I also, I never felt comfortable being masculine. that always felt other to me. Was your father masculine? Yeah. Yeah, he was.

But again, he was mostly out of the house when I was four. Right. But even so, I think that was me. I think that, you know, I, you know, even if I had seen him sort of model it and I decided that was what I wanted to do, it would always be me modeling it. It wasn't authentic. It wasn't authentically me. So people thought I was gay for the longest time.

And, you know, and... Did it bother you? No. I mean, it bothered me in that I was a little... I would say I was a little ashamed that I wasn't a masculine kid, that I wasn't good at sports and I wasn't, you know... By the way, not that that's necessarily masculine, but... Right. But the stereotypical things that people think about masculinity, I didn't have a particularly commanding presence.

I wasn't, you know, assertive in the way that you're supposed to be. They're just who you were. I just wasn't who I like to say things They like to judge They like to no matter if you are gay You're not gay Oh Rosenbaum I remember people saying you know

Back in the I don't know if you experienced this But when I was in high school Rob I don't know if you did Because you're a lot younger than me What are you 29 with two kids This guy already Geez with two

One kid and I'm 30 Yeah I can't believe I fuck that out He's a Mormon He has eight children He's going on his mission Right after this You're coming up with a whole alternate history

Oh my God I'll be working with Rob for a year and a half I don't know anything about him but um rob is a jesuit priest interestingly but interesting backstory rob has uh tell tell him your story no i'm not a jett i don't know what you're talking about michael think you were gay rob ever no no never maybe they just didn't say it yeah i mean no not right i didn't get that no i was just always shocked like really you think i'm gay my um wardrobe guy on smallville steve used to go michael you're like a half a bottle of tequila away from being gay let's be serious here you're

listened to Barbara musicals. I mean, we would sing all day. Yeah. We'd sing musicals together. And he's like, are you sure? I'm like, no, I mean, I would tell you. If I was gay, I would go around S and D's, man. I mean, like, I love, I love women.

So if I love men, I would not hold back. I'd be like, I love D's. That's just who I am. And I know it's very difficult. You know, I had Fortune Feimster, you know her. Sure. You know, and we talked about, you know, growing up and being gay and, like, how hard that is. You know, it was just like she never would tell anyone told, and she was in her, like, 20s.

I just can't imagine having that sort of, you know, and I grew up in Indiana, being a Jew. I mean, people thought it was hard, but it wasn't that bad, but I remember there's a couple of gay people in our school, and I remember wanting to be friends with them because I could tell that they were treated a little differently. They were kind of loners in a way. I mean, this was the 80s, you know? Yeah. Mid-80s. So it was like... Well, yeah, I had a very different experience because I went to a theater camp in upstate

New York for my summers that was the first place where being gay was not a subculture there. It was the culture. You know, there was a lot of gay guys. So that was fascinating because I went from, you know, New York City schools, which were, there were definitely gay kids to a place where there was a whole gay kids. culture. And if you're in the theater world, that's just, that's just a huge part of this culture. So I feel kind of lucky that. Don't you feel sort of lucky that you got to experience

that? Because being in the theater community, it's just, it's so diverse. And it was almost like it was this little subculture, this little world where everybody could sort of be themselves, at least, at least most of themselves or some of themselves. And that was kind of cool to be around that. And I experienced that a lot in college. And that I think I grew up a lot, knowing that, hey, this is how things work. This is the real world. Yeah, well, also that summer camp was great because a lot of kids went there whose parents just didn't know what to do with them. So there was a lot of kids who would bloom, you know, and that was really remarkable.

You know, because kids are mean. Kids are clicky and mean and say mean things and stuff like that. And there would be kids that everybody would sort of write off. Suddenly they would, you know, bloom as performers. And you'd be like, whoa, who is that person? you know, they would find who they were, which was amazing. And so I sort of came into my own as an effeminate heterosexual dork because I was there with a lot of women, the girls, you know, obviously I was, you know, 12, I went there from the

time I was, I think 13 through the time I was 17, you know, with a lot of girls my age, who I was, you know, infatuated with because there was just these amazing girls there. But they didn't want any part of you? they did they no see i they absolutely did they knew it i knew it because you're charming as shit you're sweet as hell that was a place where the fact that i was a feminine did not hurt at all they totally got that that's just who i was you know didn't work at at uh my regular junior high in high school and i was fine with that but it was interesting it was because i realized you know that that's just me uh and i could try to be you know i could butcher it up as they say um or i could just be me right

uh uh you know and that's one of the great things about being an actor too is you just get to be different people all the time. Well, people are always saying, well, you were gay in Midnight in the Garden, Good and Ebel, you were trans in Sweet November, you were in Dragon Sorority Boys. Is there something you want to tell us? I feel really comfortable in a dress. There's

nothing wrong with that. I'm so comfortable in a dress. I'm not. Are you not? No. Why is that? I, mostly... I'm not. I'm not. Just because it always feels like there's just not enough clothes on me. Really?

You're a private guy. Yeah. You don't like to be your shirt off. You don't like your pants off unless it's with your wife. It's fun to adopt it as a character. You could do that as a character. As a character, I could absolutely. I mean, I've done it.

I did it. There was a, they made a female persona for Alan on two and a half men on one of the last episodes we shot with Gene, as a matter of fact, where they made me up in full, you know, and I was adorable if I'm just going to put that out there. What was it? What was it about you? Your legs? What was good about it? I had a low, I had a very sunny disposition as a, as a, as a woman. I look a little bit like a, uh, Jennifer Love Hewitt. I, wait, I have a picture on my phone. Let me see it. I have a picture on my phone. I might have to post that. No, I'm not. Oh, wait, why, why not posted? Yeah, it was on the air. It was on the freaking air. At one point I was, uh, they, they had a scene in two and a half men where I was tied up in lingerie. I was wearing lingerie. It was an episode with Alice and Janney.

And my wife came over and took a picture of me all tied up to the bed. She just was giggling the whole time. And I said, don't put that on the Internet. And then I was like, why not? It's in the freaking show. Yeah, 10 million people are watching. Exactly. Nobody.

Go ahead. Correct me. You're like, uh-uh, 20. Yes. What were you going to say? You're fuck. 20 million. We used to do like 16 million.

That was our, that was our weekly. I've never been on a show that got 16 million ever. Never, never been on a show like that. No, it's fine. It's fine. You want some blueberries? No, I'm good. Now I'm going to, I'm just going to idly go through all my, my pictures here.

There's a photo, you can't even see it in a podcast. So what's- Yeah, but I could see it and then I could, you know, you could relay it to them and say, it's true, he looks like. You know, I email me that picture. You and I also have something in common in that we both were replacements in a lot of things in our life, and we both had a lot of things canceled. Yes.

You know, and I think that that creates, you know, there's a, there's something humble about that. It makes you like, you know, I think. think it's frustrating and then you get to a point where you're just like you know what things happen and you've had a lot of success so you know if that was all you were was like one failure after another we didn't have any failure i think it wouldn't be as good it makes me so grateful for the times when it's good and you know you have a job next week and boy i i treasure that stuff they fired jeremy renner and hired really hired me they fired simon it was a pilot called zoe duncan jack And Jack and the, yes, Selma Blair.

Yeah, and I was Jack and she was Jane. Oh my God. Oh, my God. I remember that show. That was a funny show. It was funny. It was short-lived, but, you know, but that happened a lot of times where people say, hey, so-and-so can't do it. Will you do it? Someone-so's fired can, we'll get Michael Rosenbaum. I was never the guy who got the part. I was the guy who took over.

Uh-huh. Which is fine. Which is fine. No, it doesn't matter. You're still, you're still the one who gets on the air. Well, no one knows who Jeremy Renner is now. Exactly. That's the great thing. Oscar nominee.

Has he won an Oscar, he won an Oscar, No. Hurt Locker, maybe. He might have been nominated for Hurt Locker. I think he might have been nominated. But did you ever go through with all these, like, when you had failed shows and things that didn't work and you got, did you? Boom. Yeah, let me see this.

Okay. I just found the photo. Oh my God. See, I'm adorable. I'm adorable. I swear to God, I'm not even kidding around. I would fuck you. Yeah, thanks.

Look at this. This is not where I thought this podcast was going today. You're really cute. I'm just going to say that. Your short hair and your little smile. When you invited me on Inside of You, this was not where I expected this is going. And perhaps that's my fault. The show is called Inside of You.

I want to get inside John Cryer. You know. You are adorable. You send that to me. I'm not kidding. Didn't you think he was attractive? Mm-hmm. Thank you, Rob.

Rob, by the way, is a unicyclist. And a father of two? A father of six. Six. He's a professional. unicyclist in a circus Vargas over in Burbank, a wonderful family circus that he's been in for how many years now, Rob? About nine or ten?

Yeah, nine or ten years. But did you ever get like depressed from like things that got canceled? Did you ever like, did you ever really get in your head like, they don't love me, they don't like me, they don't want me? Yes, I will tell you a story, young Michael Rosemale. How old are you, by the way? How old am I? I am 53. Are you?

Yeah, but I look great. You look great. But shaving off all your hair. I drink to you. I do. Cofiously. You look really good. I'm 47.

I think you look younger than me. No, I don't. Yeah, I think you do. I don't agree. If you had hair, if you had hair, you definitely look younger. And you have a little beard, for sure. Well, thank you. But go ahead.

Go ahead. Tell me this story about. No, when I, the first show I did on television was back in 1989. It was called The Famous Teddy Z. And I had done feature, I had started in feature film. Well, I started in theater, obviously, and then I started getting feature film jobs, and I had this great run of, I, you know, did a movie called No Small Affair, and then Pretty in Pink, and got very lucky, very fast, and had a blizzard of film roles. But then I did, I managed to pick a bunch of duds that all came out in the same year. In 1987, I had like four bad movies come out, and all of a sudden I was done.

That's how the business is. That's how the business is. And so in 1989, I got offered a chance to work with a guy named Hugh Wilson, who had done WKRP in Cincinnati, which is one of my favorite shows. And he was going to develop a show for me. And so he wrote this thing called The Famous Teddy Z. It was about agents. It was a very inside show. It was a multi-camera comedy.

And when I first read it, I thought, you know what, I'm actually not the right guy for this. I know he developed it for me, but I'm not the right guy for this. because he wrote me as the sort of nice guy in the middle of all the crazies. And I was like, I don't want to be the nice guy in the middle of all the crazies. I want to be one of the crazies. At any rate, everybody talked me into doing it. They said, you know, you should do the show. Everybody's excited about it.

You love Debbie KRP. You know this guy's a great writer. And I said, okay, great. We started the show, and it was the critics loved it. Critics went nuts for it. They loved how inside it was. and it was very mean to Hollywood and you know and and and I was okay with it but I I didn't I didn't like being the nice guy in the middle of the crazies it was always going to be a little bit of a

square peg in a round hole for me well we were on they gave us this primo time slot we were on I think after Murphy Brown or something and you know the the elderly among you will remember that show and but that was a that was a you know incredibly sought after place it was on CBS on Monday nights. And we out of the gate did very well our first couple episodes. And then we started plummeting. And the show, this awful tension crept into shooting the show. And they, they fired the writers and hired a bunch of new ones and this and that. And it was just, it, it just the, the atmosphere became acrid with, you know, just recrimination. No, we didn't, we lasted half a season. And I took that so.

personally because for some reason I decided that show that it was my job to carry that show and it was my job to give the audience somebody to latch on to the audience would see all these crazy characters through me the nice guy and you didn't want to do the role and I didn't want to do it but I so personalized it by that time that I just crushed me when that show got canceled did you fire everybody around you no no I didn't no I just I turned my hatred inward as one does in this business were you still married to your first wife then no no this was was, this was long before my first life. Oh, yeah, yeah, it was the 90s. Yeah, this was 1989. Follow the Soviet Union, dude. This is that far back. But you were just like,

hilarious. This is a while ago. So at any rate, so I took that one really hard because at that point, also, I had bought into the idea of you having, you know, the flip side of you deciding, I have agency over my life. I decide what happens to me. I decide, you know, uh, uh, you know, I, I manifest the good things that happen in my life. The flip side of that is when things don't turn out that way, no matter how much good energy you put into them, you say, oh, wait a minute. I'm responsible for the way this didn't work.

You know, and. And how do you turn it around? To me, well, I, I, how did I turn it around? But without, of course, the easy answer is get another job. Yeah. Is that like, but you got to turn it. There's got to be something in your mind that, for all of us, there's people out there all the time that do something and they fail or they get fired from a job they loved or whatever. And the question is, how strong are you? How much do you have to dig deep? Because the easier way out is like, I'm done with my life. Fuck this. Or you have to say, you know what, fuck it. I'm going after. I'm going to keep going. Because really, that's what you have to do. Yeah. No, I just kept going. I just kept going. I did. I did break up with my girlfriend. That kind of helped.

It did. It did. You need someone to love on you, boy? No, no. I was in a, I was in a bad place. And it was not, it was totally not her fault, totally my own thing. But I needed to reset. I needed to start over and do theater. I did like, I did a play downtown in Los Angeles. And the thing is that was, this was back in the 80s when doing a play downtown, nobody is going to see your play. If you're doing it downtown, if you're doing it, you know, it's just not happening. Nobody is seeing it. But it was just to make me, make me feel a little. part of it. And, you know, and I just, I spent a few years. I went back to New York City and spent a lot of time back in New York City, which always makes me feel better. Because as an artist, when you're in New York, you're getting constant input, you know, just because life is just this, you know, the nastiness of life is just all around you all the time. You know, in L.A., you can really take yourself out of that if you choose. If you're in a performance art, you often need a lot of input to put a lot out, you know, and I've always kind of been like that, you know, so I, so I, I try to go back to New York and spend time in New York where I grew up a lot. Do you like being recognized? Do I like being recognized? Was there a time when you were like, you know, because, you know, people obviously would come up to me, hey, Lex Luthor, hey, nice ball, that, whatever. Yeah. People come up and say, oh, Ducky from, did it ever get like, oh, fuck? only the only there was a couple of bad periods during during the sheen craziness it was bad because it was

paparazzi and and sheen fans wanted no information from you you were on set what did you see and also there was a contingent of people who were mad uh you know who were mad at they felt that uh sheen got a raw deal like hugh was the bad guy Hugh Lorry right now not Hugh Lorry Chuck Lorry Chuck Lorry yeah Hugh Lorry is not a good guy either I'm here to tell you you better stay away from you, Lori. Wait a minute. Is Chuck Lori a good guy? Chuck Lori is a good guy.

I've heard a lot of stories. I've heard a lot of things. I've heard from a lot of different people. And I've heard impossible to work with. That's not for actors, not for actors on the show. And certainly not for Charlie Sheen. That was the crazy thing that Charlie and Chuck didn't get along was absolutely nuts. Because Chuck did whatever Charlie wanted.

So what was? So there was no. What it was was that, that, Chuck was, Chuck had gone through AA and so had Charlie and Chuck was seeing that Charlie was starting to use again and was saying, dude, you have to get your life together. You cannot keep, you know, you're going to sink into this and it's going to get worse and you're not going to be able to do this show. Which sounds like friendly advice.

Yes, exactly. And Charlie was like, I don't want to hear that from my boss. And I don't want to, you know, I don't want to be in a situation where, where I'm going to be. held accountable, you know, for my off, you know, for my out of work behavior at work. Because he was going supposedly he knew all his lines. He never missed a beat. And his work ethic was pretty good. Now, you look at me like, that's not entirely true. Because that's the persona that he had it together when it was when he needed to get it together. Was that true? That was mostly true. He was remarkable in terms of being able to perform when he had been partying

How do you do that? I don't know. I drink three drinks. I can't remember my lines. Me too. Me too. I don't know how he did it. He did it way back in the early 90s when he and I did the hot shots together.

He was, you know, he was still partying a lot. And I would just hear stories and he'd come in and hit his marks and know all his lines. And he would get it in two takes and be terrific. And I was like, how the, would you smell his breath? Could you smell his breath at all? No, not really. He's fucked up. He was a big, you know, breath spray guy.

And lovely to work with, by the way, super friendly. We'd come in first thing in the morning, you know, big hellos to everybody in the trailer, you know, and lovely guy. I met him a year and a half ago. I was asked, he saw a movie I directed, and he wanted me to direct this movie that he was starring a couple years ago. And I went in, I sat with him, and I went out with him and had a cigarette, and I immediately loved him. He's one of the most charming people ever. I don't know him other than I was and then I I said hey you know I I'm not going to do the movie or whatever and then he called me and goes yeah I quit too I'm not doing it either

I was like it just needs too much work it needs too much right but what I know look it was one day with Charlie and that should be a movie one day with Charlie and he was totally you know yes he's essential but but you were there he's capable of being incredibly charming and my my experience with him was great 90 for six years it was fantastic. But when he started using again, he, you know, he showed up less. You know, we would have days where, oh, no Charlie, you know, today. We're just, you know, we're going through with his, you know, with his, you know, no, he was, uh, uh, his wife had gone, gone through difficult, uh, childbirth with their kids. So there were, there were issues with their

kids that he was trying to attend to. So sometimes he was missing it because of that, but sometimes it clearly wasn't that, you know, um, and, and, and we still functioned. fairly well because he would come in on Friday and he knew his lines, you know. He did. Just he knew his lines on Fridays. But I would say the last year. And also, by the way, he was good to the crew. He was nice.

He was not being a jerk. He was, you know, until that last season, that last season, there was, there was stuff going down that was, you know, he would, I could see him throwing a fit backstates. It was uncharacteristic. His timing was a little bit off. he he would come in and he seemed wired you know and you could see it in his off time that he seemed wired but when when he had to perform he could still do it did you feel an energy like throughout the crew and everybody just going like are you guys witnessing what i'm witnessing yes you can definitely feel like this there's something it's uncomfortable yeah it was uncomfortable well it was fascinating because the day that ashton came to work it was like we all exhaled because even though charlie was not a a jerk there was just this underlying tension because you didn't know if he was going to show up. You didn't know what crazy thing was going to come out of his mouth. You didn't know what he was going to insult? Well, yeah. I mean, you know, it just said whatever came off his mouth. Yeah, exactly. So there was

just this tension that was in the air. And, and it was crazy because Charlie totally, whenever he was unhappy with the show, whenever he was unhappy with lines that he had or whatever, he could have just said guys can we beat this joke because this is just this is a locks there's nothing this is not good but what did he do um he didn't say it he would come to me before that and he would say oh this whole run is just terrible then we would do it for the run through and it would kill and then he would shut up and not complain and instead of just saying guys i know you like this but it this really doesn't work for me which he could have said and you know what they would have just totally rewritten it written it and it wouldn't have been a problem um but he he couldn't bring himself to do it so then it all

just exploded in this anger at chuck uh at the end of it that that was like we were all we were all blindsided he never did that in front of chuck or to chuck's face never once it was just on the internet in the middle of the night so him and chuck never really had it they never fought isn't that something they never fought it sounds like one of my girlfriends i dated a while we just fought on the phone not in front of people not in front of me it was always in the fun Not in person. It's very sad. It was just on the phone.

Well, they, but no, but Chuck was absolutely blindsided by the whole thing. He hurt. Yeah. And he always felt like I was just trying to get Charlie to get help. Basically, the explosion happened when Charlie wanted to come back to work and get paid again. And Chuck said, you're not ready to come back. You know, he did a week of at home rehab and he was not ready. Right.

And just tired. Yeah. No, his voice was still a mess. He, no, he was. still clearly using, and, uh, and Chuck said, you need a lot more time. And that's when the diatribes began. Did you, did you like, did you find yourself like, you're like, you're stuck between a rock and a hard place because you're like, I love this guy of six years who's been part of my life and like a brother. We worked on hot shots. Now all this shit's happening. I don't

want to be stuck in the middle. I love him, but there's obviously some fucked up. He's, he's fucked up right now. Yes. Oh, yeah. And he was taking it out on his family. Remember, he was arrested for battery. That's horrifying. You know, and so you don't know how to, you don't know how to support somebody like that. You disconnect. You disconnect, you know, and, you know, and you know, and you want to support him. But I also, you know, his, his, you know, he's got a wife and kids, you know, people who are getting hurt by this on a daily basis. Plus, everybody was losing their job. You know, that was another thing. You got a whole crew of, you know, 130 people. So you built some resentment. I think everybody has a lot of resentment. It just built and built. It was like there's one of, you get a, you get out of jail free card a few times. A few times. And then at the end, you're like, you know what? Now you're hurting other people.

And that was it. So have you heard from him since? Do you talk? Yeah. No, we don't talk. He's occasionally on, on, and he does shit on social media that's like, what the fuck? You know, like, uh, he put out this gif of, that was a moment from two and half men of, of Alan sort of groveling.

to Charlie because he's begging to stay in the house and he said and he was like this is crier wanting to do two and a half men again I was like like I'm begging him to do two you know it's it's actually you know it was like what so you're just insulted it was a weird swipe out of nowhere

for no reason for no reason because you've never been some of the talk about badly about the guy these are just facts that people on that's gotta be tough it was very weird and just, you know, an odd thing. I could tell you, you know, just by you talking about it, you were hurt. Like, it was a hurtful time.

Like, it was like, well, sure. It was an awful time because I was also worried that he was going to die. So this is something that everybody who's related to or in the orbit of an addict goes through. Sure. You know, and so it's, I was not, I was not alone. And I, you know, I have my own issues with him. I wish him the best. I really do.

I've heard that he's getting healthier lately, which I'm thrilled about. You know, I hope he gets his life together. But, you know, it was an awful time to go through. And I, you know, I wish he had stayed sober because he had everything. Because he's brilliant. Because he's, he's a brilliant actor. Brilliant. Made it chops like nobody else. Yes. I wish he, you know, stopped hurting people. And I, I, you know, he. And himself. But, you know, there are a lot of addicts, you know, when things are great. And he was the highest paid performer. Million an episode. In one of, something around there. I don't, I never knew the exact figure. Um, but. in, you know, in an already ridiculously overpaid profession. Oh, yeah. And he had everything. He had kids.

He had a family. He had, you know, he had whatever he wanted, and he had to blow it up. But something was broken inside. He had to blow it up. And, you know, and it's, you know, I'm sad for him. I hope somebody else gives him a chance, but it's probably not going to be me. Right, right. Let's get into good news here.

Yes. Let's get into good news, and that's that you are Lex Luthor on Supergirl, and this is what so many people are just, the internet's booming. It's like, holy shit. This is like, it was controversial. But everything is controversial on the internet. It is. And, you know, I didn't have to experience that on Smallville. I didn't have to experience the internet.

Yeah, it was free. Yeah, I didn't have to experience like, oh, Rosenbaum, he's going to suck. He can't fill Gene Hatman's shoes. He can't. But like, when you're getting a role that's. someone else is played you're always compared you you're being compared before you even like give me a fucking chance before you start and i'm reading these go you motherfuckers leave the guy alone he hasn't even done this yet but a lot of people are like hey i can't wait you could see the some people

were excited and i immediately remember i was one of the first one i was like retweet and said hey man kick some ass or whatever i said like i was like dude you know go have fun and you're a great actor and you're gonna fucking kill it i was so appreciative that you said that by the way because that carries a lot of weight with the fans and the people who care about the DC universe and, you know, people like me, people who are geeks like me, although I was more of a Marvel kid growing up, but I all respect for the DC universe as well. But my point being, I want to respect that universe and respect that character in that universe as well. And the great thing about Smallville was it was a great reimagining of the sort of Superboy mythology. Exactly. And I thought,

I was so clever. But this isn't. You're not given time to say, here's my backstory. Yeah. You are just Lex. And let me tell you something. If I was just Lex Luther when he was already Lex Luther, I don't think anybody would have cared for me at all.

So it's such a, it's hard to do that. And you're going in, it's like, I don't envy the position of going into something that's so, you know, there's so much history behind it. And you're just going, were, did you get anxiety? Did you be nervous? Interestingly, it was a weird process because, as I said, I first got the call from the producers, and I thought, why me? Because I, as I said, I would not be the first person that I would think of to do that part. But once they sort of filled me in on where they wanted to go with him, I thought, oh, well, yeah, I can do that.

And so I have not been anxious about it. I have been just excited. You know, a little anxious once we actually started shooting because it was like, you know, now is put up or shut up time, Cryer. Yeah. Spoil alert. Spoil alert. Again, if you're listening to this, you know, John might say some things that this is, this is aired. So, yes, hopefully you will have seen the show because you're, you have to watch the show on the night it airs because that's how you are. So hopefully you're that much of a fan of Supergirl. Yeah. So stop. And if you haven't, watch it and come back to the rest of this interview. Yes. If you're worried about spoilers, there will be spoilers. What was the first scene?

Like the first scene that you set that up for me. Well, what's great about what the writers wanted to do was the very first scene you see me, you know, is in full Lutheran grandeur pulling off a huge anti-superman, basically a genocidal plan that will kill Superman, but, you know, probably a million human beings at the same time. So this is when Luther is in his glory, you know, doing what he loves. best doing what he was he was put on earth to do but then they switch it up where you realize that's a flashback and he's actually been released from prison on a mercy furlough because he's deathly ill and he's coming to his sister who lena luther who's this uh uh you know amazing scientist for her help uh to to find a cure for himself right it's you get you get a glimpse of luther um but then he's just this decrepit dying soul, and you've got to wonder where he's coming from.

You know, he's, he's, he's absolutely the opposite of what you would expect from Luther. So it's a little convoluted. It's a little, uh, yes, it's a little ambiguous, a little bit like you're like, what are we, what are we dealing with here? Yes, you don't know, you don't know what he's actually up to, uh, you know, is he just begging for his life, you know, from the sister that he's trying to dredge the last bit of love between them up from, you know, or, uh, or is this part of some bigger plan you know uh uh and and that was really fun to play when you when they say action and it's your first words coming out of lex luther's mouth it was a party that's still in that moment going on i'm playing lex lutherans i'm like abs of a fucking luther's well well because

the first shot was actually in a helicopter and it's the first time i see supergirl in the flesh i've not i've seen i've seen superman but this is the first time i'm meeting supergirl and i'm just spoiling for a fight and uh and it was and and but it's but the line is supposed to be whispered so it's like the smallest little moment you know and uh and i and i and i realize this is the first time i'm being committed to film as this character you know that a lot of people really care about sure uh and so i was probably overthinking it a little and what was that line uh it's just it was just it was just super girl it's nice to finally meet you you know so uh uh uh How many takes did you do different versions?

Not that many. Not that many. I mean, what's nice is they actually have a lovely brisk. They shoot a lot of it with a lot of handheld and quick and dirty and everybody's having fun. It's good. It really is. It's a great set.

It feels wrong. It feels alive, right? It's a great set. Performers are just so lovely. And, you know, a lot of time when you're a guest performer. So hard to be a guest. It's so hard because everybody's got their friends. This is the family.

Yeah, exactly. And now you're going into this family going, oh, hi, guys. I'm here today. Yes. And I'm here to do awful things and then leave, you know. But they were, they were fantastic. But also, this was also very freighted for me personally because seeing the first Superman movie with Christopher Reeve was just this jaw-dropping experience for me as a 14-year-old boy.

I just loved it. It was one of the things I fell in love with movies for was, you know, that scene in the Fortress of Solitude where he just leans forward and starts flying for the first time. You know, and it was, you know, at the time, it was a big deal to have such a beautiful. beautiful, seamless shot of somebody flying in such a, you know, a believable way. You know, the whole selling point was, you will believe a man can fly. And I did. I was 14 and I bought it 100%.

And I love Gene Hackman in that movie, even though he was a bit of a, yeah, he was a departure from Luther from the comics, you know. He was a little different guy. And, but I still loved him. I thought he did a great job. So he was kind of the definitive on-screen Luther for me, obviously, until small bill you don't have to say that i did love smallville uh but again that was a i think a departure from the comics yeah um but in a great way and a lot of times you're only i mean honestly

you're only as good as the production value the writing what's around you if i i've said this before i think i think i've been pretty good in some stuff that's just not good and if you're if it's not good then you're not good yeah it doesn't i mean no one cares it's it's it's nice to be good in something that's not right i yeah but nobody wins Yeah. Exactly. So unless the writing's good, unless the production's good, if all these things come together in the perfect storm, that's a thing called luck. It is. Oh, absolutely. And it's flip and loop. What it is? It is a commodity of preparation and opportunity. And, you know, I feel like, you know, and I hope this is for you. I hope this is like, you know, this people are loving it. And I hope so too. But don't you admire those amazing performers who manage to do that a lot, who managed to. somehow the stars align that they end up in a lot of really good things. And you're like, wow, you know, obviously they're good, you know, but plenty of good people don't end up in that many good things. That's true. Very true. And I admire the people who either through its, you know,

astute choices or great management or who knows, just end up, you go, wow, they just, Matt Dillon. You know, I always thought, he's a good actor, you know, he's terrific. But oh my God, the body of work out from the outsiders to something about mary exactly exactly and it's rumblefish to yeah and so you know he has taste he has there's something there that he just ends up in a lot of great things you ever see the bodyguard not the one with Whitney Houston but maybe it's my bodyguard it was with Adam Baldwin yeah Adam Baldwin yeah Dylan's the bad guy yes wasn't that a great that was a great Ruth Gordon you come over here you little yeah I love But I was bringing this around to, when I got my chance to be in a Superman movie, I was in Superman 4, playing Lenny Luther, Lex Luthor's evil nephew, who was basically a replacement for the Ned Beatty character.

You know, it was basically this stupid sidekick. And I, and I was so excited because the script was terrific. And Christopher Reeve had written the story, and they had gotten the whole cast back together. You know, they'd gotten Margot Kidder back. they had got, you know, a lot of them had fallen out for Superman 3, you know, the one with Richard Pryor, and, uh, and they had gotten Jackie Cooper back and they had gotten, you know, they had really assembled this great group and Gene Hackman came back. Uh, everybody had thought three was a misfire, but four is going to fix everything.

Uh, and we got into production and clearly the producers who had been known as kind of schlocky producers, uh, they were Golan Globus who had done Delta Force, you know, all these like schlocky movies that had made a, bunch of money. They ran out of money. So they started cutting weeks out of the schedule. I remember hearing of that. It was a nightmare. And the movie's terrible. The movie is absolutely terrible. I don't think I ever saw the fourth one. It's terrible. But you got to work with Christopher Reed. I got to work with Christopher Reed. Margo Kidder. Who I got to meet both of them. Yes. So lovely. And, uh, and Gene Hackman. I was his sidekick. You know, I got to be Gene

Hackman's sidekick. So can you call Gene? Have them on the show. Uh, you know, I, you know, we've, we're out of touch. We haven't kept, we haven't kept up, unfortunately. But my point being, this ended up being a very, very painful experience for me. I literally felt like that I had let down the 14-year-old kid in me, you know, because I really, I wanted it to be the thing that resurrected the Superman franchise, not the thing that really, that put the nail in the coffin, you know. So I was devastated about it. And they gave me this chance to be a part of that legacy in a really good way that I just had this opportunity. I was so jazzed about. I was so excited about that. And that the writers really paid it off and have come up with a really fun way to do it. It's been an ideal experience.

But, you know, I think I look at you and I'm like, this is a guy who's faced adversity and had failed projects and had some big success and then you know this it's the cyclical thing right you have a big success and then all of a sudden you're in these projects that just don't happen like you want them to and you just keep coming back you keep fighting you're you know you're a good actor you're a you're a good guy you're just like but you just keep where a lot of people would say fuck this I can't I can't do it these are why these opportunities will come back they will come back around. If you just stay with it, these opportunities. And then the two and a half men out of nowhere just blew up. And it was the biggest success probably on television. One of the biggest success

stories ever. So to me, I would have quit right after that. I would have just on an island and the Bahamas. I'm done. No more. I'm on the top. Let's get out of here. But you know, you just keep going. And that's, I love it. I love that you got this opportunity. This has been an incredible trick because we didn't really know each other other than you showing up a week early. And practically moving into your house. But yeah. But this. This has been, so Supergirl airs Sunday nights. Yes. What time?

I believe it's, is it eight o'clock on CW? This has been great. You have such a huge career. You've had done so many things. And will you come back sometime? Sure. Sure. I'm in the neighborhood.

You live like right over the hill. Yes. You don't, yeah. I could make it seem like it's a pain in the ass, but it's not. Sorry you had to walk up the hill. I saved you a parking spot. You did, which was very cool. You needed some exercise.

If I come back, I will swing by before I move the van. Yes. Thank you. Yes, by the way, that is a very disturbing van. I've had it 15 years. It was just my parents, you know, I used to have friends that parents would have vans and they would take their kids in road trips. And my parents never had one. So I always said that if I ever make any money, $40,000.

I'm going to buy a van. I'm going to take my friends on road trips. I'm going to go to all these places. And, you know, that's why I have. And I can't get rid of it. It's worth $7,000 blue book now. But I can't get rid of it. You tried to sell it this weekend.

Oh. Yeah, I tried to sell it to Dax, Shepard. And he goes, I go $7 or $8,000. No, that's too much. But going on a road trip in a van, it's not actually the ideal vehicle for a road trip. You know what? Screw you, John. Screw you.

By the way, what's your Twitter and your Instagram? My Twitter is at Mr. John Cryer on Twitter. And I'm not on Instagram. Well, I am, but I just have a placeholder account because I was, because I, there was a lot of fake accounts. And so if you don't know, John, as well as you should, he's been in pretty much everything. He's worked with pretty much everybody. and that's why I think the next time we could talk there's so many other things. Oh, there's many

things. You didn't even tap into it. No, no, no. We're just getting started. This is going to be a whole offshoot. This is a pot, just inside of John Cryer. It's going to be its own offshoot. This is good, yeah. Thanks so much, thanks to allowing me to be inside of you. This has been a real trait.

Again, I should have seen that coming. And you're a really good human being. You know, you're just you have, don't you think, Rob, it's this disposition that's just so genuine, nothing to hide. Here I am. What do you want to know? This is how I feel. I'm Lex Luthor. I wish Michael was more like you. Yeah. Oh, yes. If you could finally talk and, you know. All right, John. Okay. Thank you. Thanks a lot. The pleasure was mine. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about

what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. stacking Benjamins follow and listen on your favorite platform