Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - KATIE CASSIDY: Eating Humble Pie & New Perspectives in Life

Episode Date: March 18, 2025

Katie Cassidy (Arrow, Gossip Girl) joins us again this week fresh off the wildfires that devastated the city she was born and raised to share her perspective on the situation and how Angelinos are moving forward. Katie channels her moto of ‘being happy to be here and easy to work with’ as she reflects on her early acting career and the gut punch she received while filming Arrow. We also talk about her experience stepping behind the camera as a director, the ins and outs of Arrowverse crossovers, and not taking story telling too personal. Thank you to our sponsors: 🍓 Strawberry: https://strawberry.me/inside 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside 📞 Mint Mobile: https://mintmobile.com/insideofyou ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You meet your best friend. She asks you how it's going. You immediately begin to laugh. Then cry. Then laugh cry? That's totally normal, right? She smiles. You hug. There's no one else you'd rather share this with. You know, three and a half hour sleep is more than enough. Starbucks, it's never just coffee. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum.

Ryan, that's a new song that's coming out on my new album. That was just a little taste of it. You're not going to add that vocal intro to the song? No. Just do one of those spoken word things like a... Yeah. Hello. Welcome to... Or you could do like a boys to men song. Yeah, we could do that.

Um, thanks for listening. Uh, we got, we have great, great guests coming up. And I'm trying to get, she looks like it's going to happen, Tony Colette. Ooh. Hopefully in studio, which would be great. Naur way. Naur. She's Australian.

Yeah. Yeah. What a fantastic, brilliant, wonderful actress. I just love Tony Collette. Oh, man. I'll be star-struck. Um, I just saw her in Mickey 17. I just saw that.

Is it good? Yeah. It's fun. Okay. I'll check that out. I think that's what she's probably going to promote. She's also in this other. And they'll make you 17.

I think that's it. Thanks for listening to the podcast. If you're here for the first time and you're a big Katie Cassidy fan, I appreciate you here. And look, all I ask is if you like the interview and you say, oh, he's a pretty good interviewer, then subscribe and listen to others. And that would mean a lot to me. And it's the least you could do if you like the interview, right?

I appreciate you. Another thing, you can go to my Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum, my link tree. It's got everything there, cameo, all the cons. the Cruzville. You can go to cruise with us with the Smallville cast. Chicago, there's a big Smallville con. There's so many things that are so much fun this year. Ryan, and Ryan's going to be at the Chicago con. I'm going to try and get him to go to some others. It's nice to have Ryan around. I just like having them around, man. If you just hang out, I'm going to pay you to hang out with me. I like traveling. I like going. Yeah. I like going to a little place.

We had fun. Yeah. Also, the inside of you online store, there's so many new cool things. There's the Smallville pilot signed by me. There's the Lexmus script signed by me. Ship keys from the show signed by me. Lunch boxes signed by me and Tom Smallville. There's some cool shirts if you want to wear me on your shirt. There's great new tumblers that are awesome. So many things on the inside of you online store.

So check it out. And Lex Luthor Funkos. You know they're real and you know they're signed by me. It's on my website. So if you're getting them elsewhere, you're doing the wrong thing. These guys selling them for like $300 and, you know, who knows if it's even my signature. So be careful. If you want to get them, go to the inside of you online store and get those.

Anyway, look, thank you for supporting the podcast. If you want to help the podcast, if you like the podcast, please join Patreon. P-A-T-R-E-O-N, Patreon.com slash inside. And there's all different tiers that you can join and get back and help support the show. there's a new tier coming out it's already out so check out the new tier it's uh zoom with me every three months um what else come on the show get extra gifts that no one else gets so it's pretty cool and you're really helping the show more importantly so that's awesome uh rosy's puppy fresh breast breast rosy's puppy fresh breath on amazon my product i hope you you check it out it's for

your dog's breath it's great people are digging it so write a review and and and and get some and tell me what you think and maybe i'll uh zoom me on the show to talk about it or something i don't know or maybe you'll leave a message and you know we could we could air it i love rosy's puppy fresh breath it was good wait it's supposed to be for your dog um anyway katy cassidy is here she's back and you know you know her from the arrow and the dc universe and but now she's she's doing a lot of other things and she's getting her life together and she's directing and producing and it's really exciting to see uh it was wonderful to have her here i think she was a different person not a different person but just her aura her what's the her disposition yeah it was uh she just felt

confident and happy happier happier and i loved it and um it's it's always the joy to have her on. So why don't we just do it? Let's get inside, Katie Cassidy. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Katie. Yo, I'm back. Are you excited to be? here a lot you came here in the i'm super excited you came here in the pouring rain like one of my other

guests canceled on me i'm not crying by the way i just put eyedrops in i'm just glad you don't look like you're crying okay great i hope you don't cry in this i mean it'll be nice if i might listen we're just going to be real talk here so that's if i feel like the older we get the easier it is to just cut through all the bullshit yeah i don't have time for it and i've been there we've all been at places where we're like, I didn't really love myself then or I wasn't great then. I'm better and it's just about getting better. Have you had that? Oh, yeah. I mean, I definitely have had that moment of like, what the hell was I thinking or doing? And also, I'm just happy, like I've said before, happy to be here, easy to work with. It's my slogan. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.

I mean, easy to work with. Were you ever not easy to work with? Oh, I'm sure. in my early 20s, I probably, I don't know. I think, you know, and you probably had this experience, too, when you're working as an actor and you're shooting and you're on set and everything is happening all around you all at once, your head just is sort of spinning and you're trying to stay focused. Yeah. I mean, I just was, there's things like I've learned along the way that I certainly know now,

like I wasn't aware of when I was in my early 20s, late teens, but also now, you know, as I can get into the directing conversation, but we will. Going on the other side of the camera and stepping into that. role, I get it. And I just have so much appreciation for the creative process and the collaboration and being behind the camera. And I get it. You now know how difficult it is as a director to deal with everything. And then if you have either a bratty actor or somebody who's causing it just, it's energy. It's an energy sucker. What's that show, what we do in the shadows?

What is energy? What was his name? Colin? Colin Robinson. He's a character. He's an energy vampire. He just takes your energy. Yeah, no. I know people like that. And I don't have, I don't mess with those people. We don't have time for it. No, but as a director, don't you see like, have you directed where you work with actors? You're like, oh, boy. Yes. But I've also, I have to say I have a really, I have an appreciation for them. And while I am one as well, I'm still acting. Yeah. They're like, are you not acting anymore? I'm like, no, I just shot a movie. It's still acting.

I love acting. But, yeah, I think it's also about communication and just making sure your actors are aware. And no, like, listen, please, when I was shooting Arrow, I remember, you know, I was close with the cast. We were like family. And when I was directing, you know, my episodes, I was like, listen, please, please, please, please, please, please, like, be on time for me. And not that they ever weren't on time, but it just think it's... Times everything in TV director. Oh, yeah.

And any directing. Yeah, it's just being aware of the clock. You definitely get a greater respect. I know when I directed, it's just like, wow, this is what they have to deal with. Because I'm usually a goofball and all over. Michael, attention, attention. Yeah, we're rolling, Michael. We're rolling, you know, and I was never an asshole.

I mean, I'm sure there were times when I didn't like a director, but ultimately, like, you know, I'm goofing off. I'm trying to make everybody laugh. I'm trying to, you know. I'm just on set 12 hours. That's how I, how I work. Uh-huh. So,

but you also have- You would drive me crazy as an actor. No, I, the crew and everybody would be having fun. Yes, which is important too. But sometimes,

I mean, back then I think I would like, you know like, dude, I need you to focus right now. And I go, okay, sorry, and that's it.

That's all I need to hear. Right. Communication and self-awareness. Um, but I also appreciate that too. It's like, you can't also take yourself too seriously. I mean, we're not making,

we're not saving. lives here. We're making, creating something and telling story, which is beautiful, but it's, you know, sometimes you have, you need people like goofballs. Maybe, yeah. Lighten the scene a little bit. Maybe we are saving lives in a way. Yeah, that's true. Invertently, like, you know, this podcast, people have come up to me and I'm like, they're like, you don't understand your podcast has got me through so much. And I'm like, what? What do you mean? And they're like, you know, I listen to this Alan Richon episode and Alan talks about almost trying to kill himself. and somebody just came up to me at a con and it was like you know i listened to that episode

and i saw exactly what he did and it and helped me get through it and i'm i was in tears i was like because i never thought this is just trying to be honest trying to be open and then when you hear that when you actually do something inadvertently you know you didn't know that you were helping someone you were just trying to be honest and up front yeah and same when that's right because when I go to these conventions and it reminds me, I'm so grateful because the fans that are the reason why we're on the air and successful and there's this genuine camaraderie almost with us and fans and everybody, you know, everybody loves superheroes, but fans have come up to me at conventions as well and have been like Laurel Lance during this season or

during this time, you know, really helped me through my alcoholism or help me, you know, when I was in high school with drugs and struggling because Laurel, her journey was quite a wild one. And it's really, it's really a beautiful thing to hear. So you're right. It is for saying people can relate to these stories that we're telling and characters we're portraying. And I'm just grateful to have been able to do that. Do you like the cons?

I do. I love them. You do? Yeah. They're fun. It's like a good energy. And it's almost like sleepaway camp. Like I get to see you.

That sort of is. I get to see Zach Levi. I get to see, you know, Jared Pettilecki, like people who I haven't seen in so long. Yeah. And so you go away to this random city for a weekend. And we're all there, like, hanging out together and doing the thing. I really enjoy going to the cons. By the way, people don't realize how exhausting they are.

Yeah. I mean, you're on all the 24-7. Well, you want to give everybody that moment. Yeah. You don't want to be like, oh, cool. Like, you know, I hear some actors just sign and move on. And I'm like, no. Yeah.

You're going to get it. at least 20 seconds from me of like, hey, what's going on? Where are you from? You know, something, you know, it just also depends on how many people are in line. You can't. Yeah. And to be honest with you, it's, it's, I have to say during especially like COVID, I, the conventions, like you've got fans who are there and sure that there's money involved,

but I, it's there, it's like has supported me at times when as an actor, you know, ebbs and flows and and this is life and like something you know it's been helpful but they're happy to be there and they want to meet you and they want to know that they're having an impact on you as well so it's like an interesting exchange that is I think a night like I said genuine camaraderie and like a nice beautiful thing that I really appreciate and I have fun and it it does bring me up like yeah and like yeah get to go to this city or see I mean come on people are like I'm going to a con if I'm not doing anything in the weekend it's like oh am I going to to watch another movie and sit around the house or maybe go to a dinner or go to a con make some

money make people happy and get away yeah and see people who i've known who and i haven't seen that's the thing you see all these people at these conventions you went ryan ryan was there um he's on he's on our talkville podcast he's one of our he's one of our dudes yeah me and tom let me ask you this i know that your house didn't burn down in the palisades this may get me emotional talking about, but I'm okay with it. Well, what exactly happened? Because, you know, I evacuated, but I was lucky because they stopped the fires and I was able to come back into my house.

But I have so many friends, my friend Kim Painter, who lost her house and Chad and so many. And it's just, it's horrible. And, but what was your experience? So, um, I was born and raised in Los Angeles and my childhood home that I grew up in, um, burnt down. like 15 years ago luckily nobody was hurt nobody my parents didn't own it still but you know you've have history and memories and all that um but you know I'm aware of the Santa Ana wins and always happen and uh so the morning of the fires you know it was I think it was about 9 a.m

and my partner he lives um he lives with me and he's from Canada he sails and uh he sales he sales he sales some Canada he sales well he does a lot of things but he also sales. Is he in sales or he sails? Well, no, S-A-I-L. And I say this because he opens the door and he's like, babe, the weather is crazy. It's like, it's like kind of warm, but there's this like, it's like, it's like, what's hot, but there's just like crazy wind.

And I was like, oh no, no, no, no. This is not. He's like, it's awesome. I'm like, not awesome. Not awesome. I walk outside and our umbrella had like, blown, it like snapped in half. And I smelled fire. And I look over and, you know, in the highlands, I saw smoke and one of my dearest friends

lives there. And so, and she's got two kids and I'm super close with her. And I call her immediately. And I was like, um, Elisa has everything. Okay. What's happening? And she's like, what do you mean? And then she's like, oh, my gosh, I have to call you back.

Wow. And then, you know, I had like some work calls and I started hearing some sirens and helicopters. And then I don't know. I just, like, started to assess the situation as I was taking work calls. This is about, like, 10, 10, 30. And it got obviously progressive. And you weren't thinking right away. You're thinking, oh, this will pass.

And it's not going to be as big as, there's nothing to worry about right now. Very weary. I wasn't like, oh, we're fine. No. I was like, let's just, I'm not sure. Assess. Yeah. So I was kind of also, as it got worse, starting to put stuff in suitcases because I just, it

wasn't sure. Wow. And I called my neighbor and I was like, are we, she's this older lovely lady. And I was like, are you leave? Are you like, should, what's going on? I hear more sirens and I see the smoke. It's getting worse. Like, are you, should we leave? And she's like, no, you're fine. Don't worry about it. It's going to be fine. You know, she's like a very calming, lovely lady. And I was like, okay. And then, you know, we go about our calls. And as it gets worse and where Stephen comes in and he's like, oh, babe, there's like women and children running down the street with their strollers

and suitcases towards the ocean. And I looked outside the wind. I mean, obviously, it went from zero to a thousand, like, immediately and police everywhere and those were the people who abandoned their cars on Sunset Boulevard, which is near where I live. And so I basically, my sister called was like, are you leaving? I'm like, I'm not sure you're essay. I think so. I have to call you

back. And then I saw I had miss calls from Essie. I called her. She's like, you got to go. Get in your car. We left. My friend's house in the highlands is burnt down. You have to leave. She's not from New York, is she. Yes, she is. Come on. So I threw everything in the car, got my animals, got, we were, we vacuum. We, I mean, there was, it was raining ash by the time we got out of there. PCH. I'm, Stephen, I had him, like, driving literally on the sidewalk because there it was bumper to bumper traffic and I was like I don't care ruin the car just get out of here and we were lucky enough that's scary out did you were there flames all around you um I didn't see flames but we were in the smoke pile like this dark I'll show you pictures dark cloud yes it was

awful yeah so we leave we go to my mother's house in Encino um and I turn on the news and there's my home and the house next to it and behind it was on fire and then the east side of my building the buildings made out of cement um the east side of my building caught fire and i'm just sitting there watching and i'm like oh my god this i'm like this is it it's this is it and basically no fire trucks and then fire truck comes they start shooting water and then the water stops and it's still up in flames and it's only getting worse and then they drive away the fire truck and I don't know they probably went to a different area because my what ended up happening to put out other flames but what it ended up happening they my building there was two jacuzis on the fifth floor that melted into the

water pipeline and it caused the pipes to burst and it flooded the entire building which our building then it acted like a sponge so it saved the building actually so we had the opposite problem so The firefighters, what happened is they realized the building wasn't going to, they put up. Right. So that's why they moved on. But how many houses around you were? Every structure behind me, around me. We're all burnt down. All burnt down except for the pocket. And I don't want to give exactly where I live. Right, right, right.

The pocket I live in, there's about five buildings or their stores, there were businesses. Gone. Those five in this little tiny pocket are still there. every house east of me it literally stopped at my building every house east of me and south of me is plummeted and including my friend like i drove i haven't gone through sunset until yesterday i had to meet my contractor and i'm so grateful and i'm so lucky but if there's guilt almost because so many it's like why didn't my place burn down everybody else's did how why not what yeah and it's It's, it's, it's just, it's so tragic and it's so sad.

And I, I, yesterday drove through sunset and I was telling you my friend, one of my good friends who I called that morning, I used to go to her house every single day. And I couldn't even find her street when I was driving through yesterday. And I couldn't find her house because it's not there. And it's just, it's so different when you see it on TV and then when you actually drive through sunset, Boulevard and it's just sad and I'm my heart goes out to everyone who has to deal with this and going through it and it's yeah it's been a lot I'm sorry and I have to say though I appreciate you because you were like it's raining I can't even believe you came here in the rain but it's like I can't just sit and like I've been dealing with the insurance because my house is all the

infrastructure is gone like and probably the smell right it's totally just like smoke damage You can't live. They're unenhabitable. Exactly. So it's good to like, you know, I like that thank you for asking me to be here because it changes shit up, you know, and it can't just like wallow in my sorrows. And, you know, there's. Yeah, I think you're right, though. I think when you actually are there and you see it, you see it on TV and everything is sort of like it's real, but it's not real. It's like you understand what's happening, but in person when you are there to see it. everything that you've been living around gone has to just be breathtaking, you know, in a obviously terrible way. Just, just, it's devastation. It's all around you. And it's not even, you get off to 405. It's, I think it's like a seven-minute drive.

You're driving through a war zone. It made me reevaluate sort of, you know, where I live and how close it was and what could have happened. I remember I walked out of the house and I just remembering I remember turning around looking at my home and saying hey thanks for all the great times great memories and I had a tear in my eye and no one knew I did this my friends were in the background getting in the car and stuff and I just took a deep breath and I turned around I said I got my animals I got my friends that's good that's all I need and but I was lucky but it made me think wow humidity levels at a certain you know If it's really low and the winds hit the right way and something catches a flame, this neighborhood could be wiped out like that. So I started thinking, where else can you live? What's another place we could move to?

Yeah. Well, I don't know, but I do love California. Of course, yeah. It's all you know. Exactly. Yeah. Born and raised here. And especially like, you know, our industry in Hollywood and where we live, being third

generation. It's just like, this is where I, my roots are. So, but, you know, there's, there's certainly places in pockets outside of this Los Angeles, the city, you know, I'm currently up near Santa Barbara, staying, um, with my uncle and, and, and, and in the guest house. And I'm grateful, even though I can't go to my house. I mean, I can go. We can always visit here. See it and say, okay, great. I'm so grateful it's still there, but it's not a fun. situation, but it also, what I do like, I will say this, is Los Angeles as a community. We always have each other's back, especially when it comes to disaster. And I think the community really has come together and help, you know, support one another. And we will rebuild and we will,

the palisades will be back. And we will get through this too. And, you know, it may take some time, but it'll be, it'll be back. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money. Period. It's Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors you're spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings.

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Switching gears. Tell me something about the new guy or do you not talk about the new guy in the podcast. Stephen? Stephen's amazing. There you go. You mean Stephen. You mean Stephen. How long you've been together? It's been almost two years. Wow. I know, bro. It's like three years. Two years. What is it about him that makes you glow like that? What is it about Stephen that maybe you didn't get before or you just have this now? He's, I'm going to get emotional. Um, he's just the nicest, kindest, thoughtful, most thoughtful person I've ever met. And he's truly a partner. Like he, he wants to go through the stuff with me and, and together. And not everything is easy. And you talk through stuff, you work through stuff. And it's just about picking and choosing who you want to work through stuff with. Yeah. And, um, he's just great. And, and, you know, we, look, we've, Like I said, working through stuff, like everybody has ups and downs. And he's just been such a great partner and somebody to lean on.

And I'm just, I'm so grateful I met him. Do you feel like you can tell him absolutely everything? Oh, yeah. And I have. Oh, yeah. Like even if it, you know, you just let it all out there. It went as, I mean, I can't. I feel like there needs to be more time even not because I'm not ready to talk about it, but or anything.

It's just, I have 38 years to share. with somebody I feel like, you know, it's a lot. But yeah, anything that comes up, I'm very open. Do you get bad anxiety or have you controlled that? I've gotten better. It doesn't just go away. What do you do for it? Deep breaths help. Really, you don't, you don't have any medication or anything? No. Or therapy? I'm in therapy. Yes, forever and I appreciate it and always will be. Do you go every week no matter what? I try to. There's been gaps in times where I haven't been able to, but I try to. I also, like, you know, when I'm working, it's tough because it's different. I have to compartmentalize, and it just sort of depends on what role I'm playing or what

job it is. If I can, I need to take the space and have the time for Katie myself, individually, rather than just playing this character and avoiding my own emotions. But I'm not saying I'm avoiding, but you just, I need to have the emotional capacity in space. Do you ever think, oh, I have therapy today i have nothing to talk about and then all of a sudden 10 minutes and you're like and you just start oh yeah that's what happens to me every time every time i'm like i've nothing to talk about you do that ryan yeah i've said that to my therapist i'll be like to be honest with you like i wanted to cancel because either a i don't feel like getting emotional and did get heading into it right now um it's too much or b i don't really have anything to talk about and then you know

it's just how you feel how you're sleeping how you're You start to go, oh, wait a minute, I'm not sleeping well. I'm thinking a lot. I had the craziest nightmares last night. I was at my friend Howe's house, and there was this horrible storm, and there were, like, waves coming in in front of his house, and he doesn't even live near the water. And my dad was there, and he was just a real. No, this is a dream I had last night. Literally.

Yeah, my dad was just sitting there at a table at my friend Hal's house. and I was worried about my dad being bored. And I just remember like, you go, okay? Oh, check this out, Dad, check this out. I don't know what the hell was going, but there was this awful storm. And then we were trying to get out. And it was really scary. I mean, I'm talking like, what was that movie with Naomi Watts where the tsunami comes in?

It was that kind of feel. It was just like really crazy. And they always say dreams tell you something. I was just going to say there's something behind that. I know. I'm sure it's daddy issues. I'm sure it's like fear of everything. Yeah.

Fear of the future. Did you get depressed or do you? I definitely have been depressed before. Yeah. Depression and anxiety, they come hand in hand. But I, yeah, I definitely think like probably something to do with water with your or, you know, the brain and every. I mean, I don't know. Maybe that's it.

Maybe the rain subconsciously was, you know, saturating into my dreams, man. I don't really have like as of lately. you don't remember them you probably dream you just don't remember i have a dream catcher which i do think works and correct um i wait i don't really remember most it depends on my psyche yeah think if i remember them or not sometimes i guess i think i used to have vivid dreams but i don't know something's going on subconsciously which i know yeah i think last time we talked it was like you were just dealing with your dad's passing maybe right uh probably um but he passed in 2017 and we talked during COVID.

So I'm thinking. Oh, so no, it just happened right after. So a couple of a couple years. I'm like, you're always sort of dealing with it. I think it's. Do you still deal with it? Well, yeah.

I mean, when I say still deal with it, he's part of me and always will be. So it's just knowing that piece, though, that I can, like he lives within me is something that helps, helps me be okay or accept. the fact that he's not physically here but do you emotionally spiritually he lives you know inside me in a way do you feel like because i went through this with therapy and stuff a lot of the past that you just that just consumes you often you know growing up or whenever that the more you let go and and just you know like i say certain things like did the best they can absolutely did the best can love them did the best they can let it go exactly

it's almost like a forgiveness because something yeah that's what it is happened to them that made them that way or that's what they were taught something you know it's it goes on for generations and ancestors and you know my dad might have been this way but that's because of his dad or his dad passed that on to him and that's all he knew and so he it's not okay but it's sort of understanding it exactly And accepting it. They did the best they can't. Right. You can't dwell.

I tell my sister this all the time ago, Laura, you're going to be 60 years old. When are you going to just live your life for you? When are you going to just accept the fact that, yeah, your childhood wasn't great. And I feel bad. And you should feel bad for that kid. But now you're an adult. And you have to do things that make you happy.

you have to hang around people that are positive that people have your back but she sort of has you know a firm foot at least in the past you know one of my therapist once said this is like you got one foot in the past you get one foot in the future you're pissing on the present hilarious and well the present is a gift yeah live in the present moment yes yes but you know I always think like let it go let it go you know my mom's dealing with some some cognitive stuff and you know it's like i'm sorry yeah and so yeah we don't know exactly what's going on right now we're hoping for the best but my sister has just has become so much closer to her and i just i don't understand i don't understand it are you close with your mom i love my mom you know close i'm there for her i

you know, take care of her, but I don't talk to her all the time, you know. And that's something I've had, you know, a tough time with growing up. I think I always wanted to be close to my parents, but it's just impossible. It's impossible. It's just really difficult because, you know, I feel a lot of times that they, it's not just one person's effort. it's got to be both and eventually you kind of give up you kind of think this is what it is this is what I get I love you both that's it yeah and I strongly believe that I don't I don't think I'm going to have any guilt like you know like oh you should uh there'll always be that right I'm

sure did you feel that um yes a little but also I had accepted you know where our relationship was at and and he had his own my dad had his own struggles and demons and stuff you know that he tried at times to get a hold of and couldn't and you know um i wish i could have i thought you know i could have been the one to save him but i couldn't and after all you just have to it's like you said you just have to let it go and understand that people make choices and you can't control them um yeah and you just have to accept and And do what's best for you and take care of yourself, even if that means, unfortunately, you know, cutting off the communication or not having a relationship because of somebody's, um, well-being and it's not serving you. And I feel like that's where people, that's a piece. I think a lot of people miss. They think like, oh, well, we're blood. And so we have to do this. And you have to figure it out. It's blood. It's your blood. Yeah. I hate that. This is your so-and-so. You have to, I mean, you only get one mother.

You only get one. I hate when people guilt me into that shit. It's like, I don't know. I just don't have, I don't have the relationship that, you know, some of my friends, but then some of my friends don't have mothers or fathers anymore. And some of my friends do. But I don't know. It is what it is.

It is what it is. I definitely don't think family needs to be blood. I think like you have. My friends are my family. Exactly. They really are. to lean on who you create community and people who lift each other up in positivity. You just call on me, brother, when you need a friend or a hand.

Do you ever think you'd do an Arrow reunion? Because they're doing reunions with every effing show now. I think Buffy's doing one. I mean, could you see Arrow doing a reunion? Would you do it? Totally. You would do it? Yeah.

I love, like honestly, that was like some of the one of my, favorite times in my life is, is we were shooting in Canada. And what was cool about it is like the arrow, it wasn't just arrow. The arrow verse was in Canada and not, and they were, we were in Vancouver. And in fact, you know, Katie Lotz on Legends, she was my roommate. She played my sister, Danielle Pano Baker. She was my roommate at one point. So like, you're in Vancouver and you've got.

It's a family. It's a family. And then you're like crossing over on each other's shows and you're like, it feels like a little bit like Comic-Con. Did you get paid for doing, like, crossovers? Well, yeah, that's just legal. Like, if you're doing a show and you're still on Arrow, but you're also doing legends or doing- Was it a good month? Was it your rate? Yeah. I mean, the- So they have to pay you twice? Well, yeah, that's sort of the deal. Like you're working your- Wait. But hold on, you know being on a series, like a series regular on a show is exhausting, right? Yeah. So you're working 15 hours a day on your show. And then you find out you're going to go to the other show, but you can't get your turnaround.

You, like, are working a sixth day or, you know, you're working a lot. And it's up to you if you want to do it. You can always say no. But, like, we worked it out. And you're tired and it's hard. But they figured it out, too. They figured out how to cut, how to kind of do a schedule across all four shows. Crossboarding or something.

Yeah, exactly. But so you're saying if you did 22 episodes of Arrow, you probably did another. or eight episodes on different shows. So the crossovers were only usually, like the crossovers were usually just, um, the crossovers were usually just one one episode, a season? Sometimes two. Well, yeah, because you can't do that to like it's. What if you just said, no, I'm not doing a crossover?

Probably say, okay, fine, you're out, your loss. Or what if we double your rate? Yeah. Oh, did that happen? No, not, I mean. Not to me. to me because I was like sure but you happy to be here easy to work with it's my slogan is it your slogan now was it then it was okay but you know what I will say this I had to eat some

humble pie when they killed me off that show which it was really hard did you know it was going to happen no what's hilarious is I had no idea and Danielle Pana Baker was my roommate this season season four and she's like who do you think is in the grave because episode one we see a grave And I was like, no one is in the grave. This is television. No. She's like, are you sure? You're not worried?

I'm like, no, it's fine. It's you. And it wasn't. I think I talked about clairvoyancy the last time we spoke, but I do know something before it happens. And not exactly what, but I got a email from my showrunners that was like, you know, It was like episode, I don't know, two episodes before this, or an episode before this episode was when somebody was going to die. Right.

And I get this email and it's like, to the whole cast, hey, Katie, you know, Mark and Wendy would love to sit down and have lunch with you. We're going to meet with all the cast just to like do a little catch up on, like, what's going on for the next few seasons. It might have been a mass email. I think it was. And for whatever reason, like my stomach just like, like, bleh, like, drivet. like dropped and I immediately text Mark Guggenheim who I adore and I was like I'm fired aren't I

I said Mark it's like a it's a Thursday and they wanted to meet on Monday and I was going to a comic on that weekend with my cast and I was like Mark I just got this email that we're supposed to have lunch and I have a like sick feeling in my stomach please don't make me wait the weekend like please can we get on a call tomorrow he said wow you're really intuitive I'll call you tomorrow and so and that's when your heart sank you're like fuck you're hoping he'd say no don't worry about it and it was the opposite yes how did you feel do you remember the feeling you had well yeah I was sad I mean I mean were you numb um I was sort of in shock because well the next day they did call I was in New York by that point going to the Comic Con with my whole cast and it was Greg

and um Andrew and Mark and Mark you know said listen And unfortunately, you know, I have to tell you, like, you're the one that's in the grave. I was, yeah, I was angry at first. And I was emotional because I was sad and I was angry because I was so happy. You know it had nothing to do with you. It was just like the beginning of the season. They said that. I think it was a couple of things.

I have theories. I think it was political. It's a lot. Regardless, I said, you know, I'm a professional. And I was just like, okay, I just have to say, this was my only anger moment. I was like, I just have to say, I feel like I've always been given the short end of the stick. And I have to go. And I didn't yell.

I just cried because I was sad. And I, you know, Stephen called me immediately and was like, I'm so sorry it's you. Like, I don't want it to be you. I worked really hard on that. show and that character and I just, I loved it. And everybody was like, shoot, because there maybe. But didn't you come back? Oh, yeah. I got a call like two weeks after that was from Andrew Kreisberg, who's great. You called and was like, hey, I just wanted to find out, would you want to come on Flash and be your doppelganger and play Black Siren? And I was like, yes. Oh my gosh,

this is such great. I get goosebumps talking about it. I was like, this is so cool. Yes, I would love that. So basically, I came back on Flash, played the opposite of Laurel. How many episodes? It was just the one. Just the one. And so basically what happened is, and thank you to the fans, is I had to go through the weekend, by the way, with Comic Con and every question, who's in the grave? Do you guys know?

And so our whole cast is on stage. Just looking at each other. And I'm like, maybe no one's in the grave. I don't know. So I had to just play like I wasn't crushed. Stephen was like, I'm really proud of you that you're like able to get through this. Yeah, you could have been just like, it's me. they fucking fired me.

Could you imagine? No, I would not do that. But I definitely, you know, had the support of the fans because that flash episode I went on, ratings, I guess, were great. And arrows, unfortunately, I guess, after they killed me, I guess their ratings went down a little. I'm not sure. But I did get a call after Flash aired from Mark Guggenheim that said, we come back as a series regular i think we may have made it mistake and that was season

that was season uh six season five i was on arrow for recurring i think it was like eight episodes and season four was when they killed you and then you're back and then i was back and like better than ever and like happy did you get the same contract um yeah it was as though i you're like well you fired me so now i get to renegoti you know i probably should have done that yeah but i was just grateful and I think that's what we started this conversation about a humble pie because you asked if I was ever difficult and I there were probably times early on and I asked everybody that like I asked Stephen he's like yeah sure you know there's there's times when people like especially when you're younger you don't really know yourself you're insecure that's a big thing insecurity it's it's it's

you know you think it's all about you but it's not it's all about the big picture right that's what I what I was saying at politics like I get it and it's storytelling and quite frankly them killing me off I got, I understood that it took every other series regular and their reaction to my, like, you know, a main pivotal character killing them off that sends these other characters spiraling in different directions and reacting and it's storytelling and I don't take it personally and I think they did a great job in writing for me, quite frankly. Like I went, they wrote for me and I got a lot to play with. So for that, I'm grateful.

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Get almost, almost anything delivered with Uber Eats. Order now. Alcohol and select markets. Product availability may vary by Regency app for details. Every time something's happened where, I got let go from a show before it ever. It was a pilot. And the whole time, I mean everybody from McKay,

Will Ferrell's partner, Adam McKay, coming up to me and saying, dude, the dailies are fucking hilarious. You're great, man. You should be so happy. And the director and everybody. And I was like, yeah, I feel good. And then one day after the podcast,

was shot i got a call from owen this guy owen who's one of the executive producers and he says hey rosy how are you doing i go are you crying he's like yeah man i'm just gonna say it i i i i've we fought them on this but uh they just they think your two your character's too chauvinistic and they're just they just want to write the character off and they want to us to come up with the Yeah, that probably really. And I go, I just took a deep breath and I go, hey, dude, I love you, man. I love working on that show, man. It was great.

I loved everybody. It's like, let's not make this weird. Think of me in the future and I know we'll work together again and it was a joy and thanks, man. He goes, thank you too, man. Thanks for, you know, and he hung up and I remember sitting at my desk. I told the story, right? Not too many times. but I sat there and I go

you have a nice house you have two great dogs you have great friends you're healthy you're good and I remember I was kind of a numb feeling like I asked you if you were numb and then I kind of just go

I kind of made it like into a funny like text my best friend they just fired me made it dramatic And just, you know, and I'm telling you, it wasn't two months after that or a month. I get a call from this guy, Eric Tannenbaum was a big producer. And he goes, I got a show for you. You the lead EP.

Read it. It's awesome. And I went and shot it for a couple of years. Oh, that's great. And it wouldn't happen if I was on that show. And so, and I remember Bruce Campbell, Evil Dead. He goes, hey, bud. Sorry to hear that.

I go, yeah, he goes, why don't you come over and get high and we'll go ride bikes? And I go, okay. So we went and got high and rode bikes all around Burbank and shit. And I was like, this is cool, man. I'm hanging out with one of my heroes, Bruce Campbell. It's, you know, there's always going to be something. You never can understand why, when, what the reason was. Like, you just have to go, it is the way it is.

someone didn't like it someone didn't like what i was doing and that's that's their opinion and that's just life you can't control it if you can't control it i always say shelve it yeah well it's like they say you know that saying of one door closes the next door opens um and so yeah it it is everything happens for a reason and i truly believe that have you ever been fired besides that that wasn't really firing um no i've been killed off other shows before but like harper's island for example um that was everybody basically i made it to the second to last episode but harper's island was everybody dies though with john turtletop every in every episode in that right that show was great it was i think ahead of its time but we didn't know going into it we all had the same deal seven out of four

seven out of 13 episodes are guaranteed this is your payment someone's going to die every episode you know what you're getting into you don't know who the killer is and you don't know when you're going to die you never knew when you were going to die so you're like i'm on it again another episode. It's great news. So you never knew when it was going to happen. No, and Christopher Gorham didn't know he was the killer until, like, episode seven. So when I got to episode eight, I was like, yes.

When I got to episode nine, I was like, yes, I got to episode 10. I think I made it to episode 12 out of 13. And I got that call from Kareem on during Christmas, my call, I saw his name on my phone. It was like, you know, Christmas break. And I was like, oh, shit. I pick up the phone and I'm like, hello? I'm dead, aren't I? And he's like, yeah, but you made it to 12.

You weren't upset, right? No, I was like, I know, I don't care. I'm just happy. I'm happy you kept me around this long. Do you want to direct? What kind of movies do you want to direct? Like, you're scouting now. I'm scouting now.

We can't say the title for a feature that I'm directing. Does it start an S? No. It starts with a W, but I'm not allowed to say what it's called. Okay. But what is it? It's an independent feature takes place. What genre?

It's a suspense, thriller. Love, love. Thriller horror movie. Love. Based, yeah, it's a... What's going on, Light? Just talking about it, you know? See, talking about horror and then, boom.

Thriller and then... It's funny because I wrote a horror movie, and a lot of times in different scenes, like lights kind of flicker. So maybe the ghost of Amy Kemper is here. Maybe. but but you like horror well i do like horror i like horror i mean i've i've done a lot of horror movies um but you know it's a suspense thriller horror a little it's it's dark but it deals with uh mental health mental illness russia 1894 Jesus um my grandfather actually

had some mental illness later in life and he was actually put into his psych ward at one point So, you know, and I'm super excited. It's such a cool story. Is that Jack Cassidy? Yes. Who, by the way, he was a, he won, he was a first person to play Superman on Broadway. Really? Yeah.

Jack Cassidy. Yeah, Grant. I didn't know that. Yeah, superheroes are in the Cassidy, Gene. You were too young to ever have met Jack, right? Jack died in like in the 70s. Yes, he died in the 70s from smoking a cigarette and dropped a cigarette on the carpet. it and unhappily.

Are you serious? Jesus. That's a where, you know, I think he must have been drinking. I had a, my grandmother's, whatever, father's father, or maybe his father. He was in an apartment complex in the Bronx. And one day he's just sitting there. And the whole ceiling just collapses on him, but just collapsed and killed him. What?

Yeah, this is life, man. I appreciate you. No, but I'm like, what that's the act? He's like, yeah, that's what happened. I go, well, tell me more. It's like, what do you want to tell you? What do you want me to tell you? The ceiling collapsed and killed him.

I go, but he just died instantly. It was concrete. It did something happen. He died. I don't know. I'm like, I wanted more. And he never gave me more about that. Oh, wow.

Yeah. But horror, thriller, would you ever direct comedy? Yeah, I actually wrote and directed and produced a short called America's Next Best President as a spoof on American politics. Nice. That is actually, I shot it during lockdown COVID, but released it 2024, and it's still even actually making the festival circuit. So you're still like, you're always doing something.

I like to just create and tell story for the better of this universe, because that's That's my purpose here. Where are you filming the movie? You can't say. I can. I'm shooting. Let me guess. Serbia.

Yeah. Yeah, you told me. Oh. Hmm. Also, we're going to go scout Latvia this summer. Latvia? Latvia. Yes.

I love Serbia. It's beautiful. I can't do a Serbian accent, but I try. Is that how the Serbian accent is, right? Is this a real accent? Well, you could get away with it because most people don't know. Yeah. It's sort of like sounds of the Russian.

They're the nicest people. and I need snow So Latvia's going to be explored a little bit A lot of snow Are you going to be in it? No Isn't that a treat That you can just sit back and do your job

Yeah I want to stay focused And you know I think we talked about this last time as well I have ADHD so it's hard to like But I also think it's a gift Like it my brain just works differently It's sort of like my therapist I'm really creative

Yeah do you get kind of just tired all the time Yes Because your brain works, so you need to nap all the time or lie down for a minute. Yeah, but I can't stop. I have a very hard time. But it's good to just lie down. I know. Yeah.

All right, this is called shit talking with Katie Cassidy. These are top tiers, top tier patrons. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Thank you for the support and love. So this is rapid fire. Oh, if you really want to answer a question. Wait, I want to give you, I brought you to two crystals. What did you bring me?

You brought me crystals. I brought you crystals. Do I need to do anything with them? Do I put it in my ass? What do I do with these crystals? Two rose quartz, crystal skulls, positivity and love, and the skulls are like, you know, ancestors, meaning of life. We're all. Do you have one for health and pain?

Well, yes, I do. I'll bring them next time. Do I do just hold them and breathe? Can I tell you what's amazing about these crystals is the energy that comes from them? And also, I say, we were talking about wildfires. I have a lot of crystals in my home. and their protection and I'm like maybe it's the crystals and the pot like they kind of face west like and maybe that's what saved the pocket that I'm in maybe they just have this incredible grounding energy

and when it comes to Roarscourt's it's for you know it's for love and light thank you you're welcome I really love it all right shit talking with Katie Cassidy rapid fire William Kay what role project do you wish got more attention than it did and why the scribbler It was based off a graphic novel. I played a woman who had disassociative identity disorder in an insane asylum. And I actually sat down with my therapist and worked on creating seven different characters that we see throughout the movie and creating backstory. And I sat down with somebody who had disassociative identity disorder with my therapist. And she allowed me, I mean, she got permission, of course, from the lady.

And I watched her. She transitioned in front of me. Is it crazy? It was the most wild experience I'd ever seen. And you believed it. Oh, yeah. She like there. Became a different person.

Multiple times. And then at one point she started, she was Native American. She started, she like jolted her head to a different direction. And she started speaking Native American. And my therapist actually recorded the session and she took it to the University of Arizona to try to get it translated. And they said, we can't translate. because she had never heard, that's the side of this lady that she had not met before. But it sounded authentic.

Yeah, but they were like, we can't translate this for you. It's too, like, evil or dark. And so she never got it translated, but she's like, I never saw that side of her. So working with my therapist and building the backstory of seven different people and then, you know, like the movie I'm directing, it deals with mental health, mental illness and explores, you know, sort of this nature. So that's definitely the movie that I wished got a lot more attention. It was cool. It was like a great role, a great character.

And I sunk my teeth into that role. That's when it sucks when you really. Yeah. All right. Close your eyes. Who am I? Ready? Close your eyes.

Listen to me. This next pod is very difficult. They're going to take you. The question is, do you have any Liam Neeson stories to share his dry humor. It's hilarious. Liam Neeson is great He's the sweetest man A set of survival skills

Yes He's I don't really To be honest with you He's just a nice lovely man And like He was just grateful He was like I was so glad So like thank you for doing this

And I was like Thank you Oh my God You're Liam Neeson Taylor R Anyone Anyone I don't know because I can't get involved in the drama.

It's too much for me. So I love Leighton. Layton is a dear friend of mine. And she and I became really close. She's hilarious. She's actually, you know what? I want to give it to her. She is the one who taught me happy to be here, easy to work with.

That's her slogan as well. Yeah, spread the word. Yeah, by the way, Bob Kay was the one with the Liam Neeson question. And Taylor R. was the question of Gossip Girl. I will say the one thing I remember from Gossip Girl, and I found out once we started shooting because we were rolling in the middle of a scene and like here's the camera and just to the right of a camera is another camera but it's a paparazzi camera and it's just like and I was like what what what what is going on what what it's distracting and they were like we can't do

anything about the paparazzi it's the it's the law in New York they can be wherever they want so like even the paparazzi were like eating cross services this is crazy how do you guys do this, but okay, we just learn to block it out. Janelle B says in, I'll sum it up, you play iconic characters, black canary and black siren. If you choose, who would you choose to play if you had to be one of those characters again and why? Probably Black Siren because she, I mean, Laurel was so emotional and it's hard to go there all the time.

So, you know, it was fun. Both were incredibly fun and I'm incredibly lucky and grateful. I think probably Black Siren just because you're not having, you know, she was a badass and like, you know, powerful woman and like, yeah, she's like, I got this. And that's how Katie Cassidy feels. She's got this. I like that. Yeah. Raj, tell me about a recent time you felt on top of the world. Oh, how late recent time? Probably. I was just going to say when I was scouting. Scouting. I was just going, it's a cool feeling of going, no, no, no, I want, I think this is cool. We should do this. You know, this is. I want to say, by the way, thank you. Because you, the last, again, I think it was like two years ago, the podcast we did, your podcast, got me the job to direct this movie. I swear to you. I swear to you, the woman, her name is Shruti. She said, and she. Shrudey is a gem. I love her. She, her, her, and her, and. And the finance or writer, director, or writer producer, I had him, you know, she connected us. And I built a deck based off his script.

And, you know, we had a couple of meetings. And then I put together all of this, you know, 20 pages and then a digital deck. I did all the time of work. And she saw the podcast. And she saw the podcast because I talked about directing and how I went through the Warner Brothers director's three month program and how much I love it. And I'm like, this is also what I'm supposed to be doing and creating. and still, of course, acting.

But she said, she's like, I watched your podcast and with Michael Rosenbaum. And that's how I knew that you were directing and that you went through and that you shot a short and directed it. So that, yet, that's how we knew. And Emma hired you out of, you know, meeting several people. I love that. Thank you. But Trudy, what about me? You didn't call me.

Oh, well, maybe you'll be getting a phone call. You never know. What makes you smile, says, Leanne. or asks just everything life I mean well you go through ups and downs

my animals certainly make me smile oh you know what I want to give you oh oh this this is my new product cheap plug but it's for your dog's breath you just put a one cap in your dog's water

it's odorless tasteless and their breath is so much better This is a wonderful gift. Rosie's puppy fresh breath. Just a cap full in your dog's water. Oh, I love it. People love it. My uncle has a pet show.

He's talking about it on the pet show. Yeah, you're welcome. Lastly, I know you wanted to bring up your charity. Well, talking about help Malawi and talking about disasters, I wanted to mention also I'm working with this company, C-polar technologies. And it's, I know it's actually very interesting because I started talking with this company a week before the fires happened. And Stephen was like, hey, my friend's going to be in town.

He invented this technology in this filter that's not in the U.S. yet, Cepolar Technologies.com. And it's a thousand times better than any, because we're all about clean air and obviously being aware of wildfire smoke. So like a purifier. No, it's a filter. Like it's a plug in. Yeah, you can just change the filter you have.

And you put this seapolar filter in. And it's a thousand times better than any other filter. that is out there. And the technology doesn't even exist in the U.S. yet. So these people are from, they're from Canada. And it's, it's insane. And so I got, you know, they came in and I want one of these. I know. And it cleans the air. It cleans the everything you touch. It also cleans your water. It's everything. What's it called? C polar technologies. C polar technologies. Dot com. Yeah. This sounds great. Yes. And I got. How much are they? It's like a filter. So it's not expensive. How much is your filter? 399, 299. 99. 99.

It'll fit in my other purifier. Yep. Yep. not your purifier in your ceiling. Yeah. The vents. Yes. I'm doing that. Yes. So it's like a square filter. Hold on. If you pull out a filter. No, I brought you a mask. It's a seapolar mask. A sepolar mask. This is way better than those N95.

All right. Yeah. So when the fires happened a week after, those were the masks we were putting on. I love it. This has been great. Thank you. I don't, you know, it's funny because you're like, can I listen to the episode after? I go, of course. I don't even think we talked about anything that you want it was all great right there's not there was not one thing that even jumped at me oh you but you can listen to it i'll listen to it i'm sure i'll say it's fine listen i wish you the best on the new director gig thank you uh you're always busy you're always

acting you're always directing i love this i think this is a new chapter in your life i love that you're happy with stephen thank you um good luck with the dogs and the puppy fresh breath um you have two dogs. I have one dog, a greater Swiss mountain dog, and I have two little kitties. Oh, beautiful. Yeah. Thanks for being here. Thank you for having me. All right. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot trackside. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at MX.ca.c.com.

This episode is brought to you by Defender. With its 626 horsepower twin turbo V8 engine, the Defender Octa is taking on the Dakar Rally, the ultimate off-road challenge. Learn more at landrover.ca. Thank you, Katie. It was always a treat having you on. I hope you guys enjoyed that.

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They're supporting Food on Foot and not my buddy's non-profit organization, FoodOnFoot.org to help the homeless situation here in Los Angeles, and they bid on a lunch with me, and so we're going out to lunch. Nice. Yeah, soon. So I'm excited to just sit down with you and have a real nice lunch. Ellie K Hello Ellie

I like the name Ellie Don't you I do too Like Ellie I wonder What her accent is Do you think it's just

English Or like an American accent Okay Yeah I kind of think it might be English Ellie Ellie It sounds like a

My I have a cousin in England Her birth name is Matilda But we call her Tilly Tilly Yeah My great-grandfather

when my grandma rose died he started dating a woman named Tilly and she had this crusty mole on her forehead and I just kept looking at it like oh my God Ben B Ben B Pierre C

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my g kareem kareem h cream's probably powerful like my name's kareem yeah yeah and don't forget b we love you guys thanks for supporting the podcast and uh for the hollywood hills in holl california i'm michael rome oh i'm ryan i'm here too yeah that's right there see a little wave to the camera a lot of great guests coming up please uh write a review subscribe uh join patreon and uh we'll see you next week be good to yourself Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice.

Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamins, follow and listen on your favorite platform. Thank you.