Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - KELLAN LUTZ: Losing Himself After Twilight, Blacked Out Childhood & The Rowboat That Saved His Marriage

Episode Date: August 11, 2026

Kellan Lutz (Twilight, The Legend of Hercules) joins us this week for an unexpectedly deep and disarming conversation about leaving California for Tennessee, the intensive couples therapy that cracked open a childhood he had completely blacked out, and the post Twilight pressure that made him lose his secret sauce while chasing roles like Captain America and Thor. Kellan opens up about the rowboat analogy that changed his marriage, the Jeff Bridges advice he carried with him from his very first movie, and why he walked around doing press in a fake Hercules accent for months. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/inside and get on your way to being your best self 🔹 Blue Chew: bluechew.com + “inside” 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou⁠⁠ 👕 Inside Of You Merch: ⁠⁠https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: ⁠⁠https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🤣 TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast⁠⁠ 📘 Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🐦 Twitter: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod⁠⁠ 🌐 Website: ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thanks so much for listening. Hello, Ryan. Hello. Do you think people like us talking or they want to get straight to the interview? You know, I hope people stick around. Yeah, I hope people listen to the whole thing. I hope my voice isn't too annoying. Maybe we should like drop some trivia so that people like, we'll learn some stuff in the beginning. Trivia question. What voices does Nancy Cartwright do on The Simpsons? No looking it up. Or what is the player represented in Michael's shirt today?

I know. Yeah. What is it right in the YouTube descriptions and comments? Thanks for, like I said, thanks for listening and supporting this podcast. I've been doing it for a long time. And I hope there's so many great guests and so many great conversations that I've had. And I learned so much. And it helps me.

It's almost like therapy for me. And the community on Patreon has been. just wonderful and I want to shout out all the patrons again for supporting the show over the years and without you I could not do the show period so I want to say thank you and if you want to join patron please do support the show give something back patreon.com slash inside of you and there's so many tears and wonderful things about the uh about patron and most importantly it's created a wonderful environment for uh fans and friends and uh so many relationship relationships have been built on patron and the community is amazing.

Everybody's so supportive and loving. So join and you'll see you'll build a wonderful network of people on our Talkville podcast too, the patrons. I have to say it's true. It's like the patrons give us the opportunity to make the show. Yeah. You know, we're not the biggest show out there. We're not the smallest, but we, we got a fight.

We got to keep going and, you know, Ryan works really. hard and timmy our wonderful editor who i adore is uh kicking ass and bryce producing uh it's a lot of work and it's a lot of um you know i had to buy new cameras and setups and and uh so the patrons really support us if you want to join join support the podcast patron dot com slash inside of you um kellen lutz what a treat man i had no idea he was going to open up like he did it was so freaking refreshing. And I mean, I think I said in the interview, I was like, dude, I love you. This is exactly what the podcast is. This is what it wants. This is what people want. Conversations like this. So just dig in, sit back, listen to this episode. I think you're

going to dig it. And that's Ryan Tejas. That's me. Yeah, yeah. I was there for all of that. Yeah, he was there. All right. Let's get inside of Kellyn Lutz. Where you get nervous for a role. Oh my God. I get panic. Do you get anxiety? Yeah, I live with anxiety. What are you doing? I was just taking a live picture. I always get nervous, but that's fun.

I look forward to it. Let's get everything out of today we can. And how much time do you have left? And how are you going to use it well? So come on now. We would have to do another inside of you. But actually, that's kind of what you're doing, Michael. I mean, you're going on this road, this journey of what's inside of you.

Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Dude, first of all, I love the place. It's like very rustic, cabiny. Where are you? I am in Pigeon Forge right now. Where's that? I live in Franklin, Tennessee, and it's about three and a half hour drive east.

And it's where it's Dollywood is. I've heard of that. I've been to Dollywood. I love Dollywood. Yeah. So that's in Pigeon Porge. And just Easter came. And we're like, we got to do something.

something. I'm someone who wants to always be doing something in a healthy way, not escaping, but just we live here. We moved from California three years ago, and I don't know how long we'll stay in Tennessee. So I wanted to do this, check it off the list while I could. So yeah, that's the answer there. It's funny because today I was looking at this house that's in Brentwood, Tennessee. Yeah. And this is the most amazing. amazing house. I'm going to send this to you afterwards. Okay. And I was like, I got to get this house. But then I thought, okay, well, you're going to be in Brentwood, Tennessee and all your friends are here. And like, you know, is, is Tennessee a really

great place? I assume it's a great place to raise a family. Brentwood's great. There's a lot of actors, musicians, people in the industry. Big houses, great people. They're beautiful homes. They really are. They're big, though. They're like really big. Yeah, this one had a basement. And in the basement, it was designed by a guy who worked at Disney. So it felt like it was a town with like a stage with like a hundred seats for like a concert and stuff. So I could have my friends over and do concerts down there. And it was just, I was like mesmerized.

Send it to me. I would love to. My wife loves real estate. More so Orange County, because that's where we moved from. So she's trying to get us back there someday or maybe be byish coastal. Obviously, Nashville's landlocked. But we want another place in Orange County again. So she's always like, what do you think about this one?

But yeah, the houses there are incredible, especially in Brentwood. And you left L.A. really for more family life and to get away, right? Yeah. Was that something that had culminated over the years that you're just like, I just need to get out of here? I need to get out of here. you finally did it and did it change things? No, I never wanted to leave.

My wife and I, our hearts are still in California, especially Orange County. When I moved from Arizona and I started acting, I lived in the Valley. Like no one told me where you should live. So I got a place in Valley Village. And I bought a place in Valley Village. Didn't really go up in value in 15 years.

I wish I had gotten a place in Toluca Lake or Studio City. but the valley moving from Scottsdale, Arizona, it was very Arizona adjacent. Like the valley got hot, not as hot as Arizona. And being there, I'm like, I'm in California. Like my father always lived there my whole life. And I was like, I got, I'm living here. People called me the Cali kid growing up. So it was just fitting for me to finally be in California.

And I love California. I really do. The whole Tennessee, move happened when we had her second kid. And my wife is born and raised in Orange County, City of Orange. Her family's awesome. But post-COVID, a lot of people fled California. A lot of people lost jobs and wanted to move somewhere a little bit more

peace-given, teach their own. And so her family chose to leave California. and we followed. You know, mainly when I'm working, my wife didn't have a support system, someone to help with the kids when I'm away. And one of the kids got sick. She felt really out of control as far as not being able to bring both kids there or just kind of helpless.

So she's like, can we move? I'm like, yeah, of course. And a lot of times, a lot of men have told me when you have kids, And this is something I always ask people ahead of me in life. So I know what to look for. I don't like being caught off guard, but I had some men in my life of good. Older men who are like, hey, just so you know, usually moms want to move where their mom is just to help with the kids. And my wife was homeschooled.

And so I was like, okay. You know, and then when they decide to move, I was like, okay, well, we're going to do it. We're going to give it a couple years. And we have. And it's great. There's a lot of great things about Tennessee. especially Franklin, where we live, we got some land, got great Bible studies that were part of, great churches, great community. There's a lot of actors. I've gone to probably more movie

premieres in Franklin, Tennessee than I have in L.A. you know, the last couple of years since I lived there. It just, for whatever reason, the industry is still there, which I'm grateful for. But there are things that are hard for us. Like we aren't seasons people. There's tornado. my wife goes on red alert, especially when you have kids. And we do miss good sushi and good Mexican food. This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. You have heard me talk about BetterHelp for quite a while. Ryan, we've been doing this for a while.

We love Better Help. Therapy is so important. And I know a lot of people, there's a lot of people that love it. And there's some people that don't want to try it. And I would say, you've got to try it. With Better Help, it's amazing because you, you know, You don't have to go to your therapist and sit there with your therapist if you're a little feel awkward.

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Ryan, how many people have used BetterHelp globally? Over 6 million. Globally. Globally. That's a lot. You know, the consistent feedback from real users makes it easy to see why so many people continue to choose BetterHelp. Better Help therapists have at least three years and 1,000 hours of hands-on experience.

They also hold all required education, training, certifications across a range of mental health specialties and BetterHelp makes it easy to get started. So easy. Answer a few questions, get matched with a therapist based on your needs, and switch therapists at any time if it's not the right fit. No questions ask. See the reviews, see what stands out, and see if BetterHelp is right for you. Visit BetterHelp.com slash inside. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P. BetterHelp.com slash inside. I mean, you grew up in North Dakota in Arizona, right? I was born in North Dakota, Dickinson, North Dakota. I actually just asked my mom all this information. My wife and I are going through this amazing couples therapy and individual therapy. And it is, I highly recommend therapy.

We're doing an intensive one where it's like four and a half to five hour sessions each time. which is amazing. And I've done, and I also go to a couple 50 minute ones. And I'm like, there's not really, I can't really dive deep into the 50 minute things. You bring something up and then your,

your clock's going, yeah, but to each their own again. But this intensive one, really grateful for it. It's really, because my childhood was a little, unpredictable.

Me too, yeah. chaotic, like most are. But actually like, like dig into that with someone and then when you're married they really get to like walk with you through that and and get understanding with what you went through. So it's amazing. I wish I did it before I got married. Honestly, I wish I, I thought I was healed of a lot of stuff, but there were a lot of things that I just didn't know where there's a stigma. There's a stigma always attached. And I think

that's, you know, sort of going away where, you know, I always say like, you know, but people work out their bodies every day to get stronger, but no one works out their mind. No one works out with all the shit that you're going through. And I'm glad you said that, you know, therapy really helps you because, you know, my girlfriend and I, we decided to just go to couples therapy. It's not that everything was like it just, you needed someone objectively to sit there and kind of listen to both of us and kind of, you know, kind of figure out, okay, let's, let's figure this out. And I'm telling you, we had a two sessions with the therapist and two individuals. And everything got exponentially better.

Just off that. It was just hearing from someone else. You think maybe she needs this or you think maybe he's, this is what, you know, just putting things into perspective. And I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. Without doing that, I'm like, okay, someone understands where my point of view. Someone understands her point of view.

And you kind of meet in the middle. And because, you know, your significant other doesn't want to hear you say, well, what if you do this? What if you do? Because you're like, you're not an expert. You don't know what you're talking about. But when you hear it from someone else, you're like, oh, okay, maybe I have to kind of take that in. Exactly.

You know, because I always wanted to be married and I always wanted to have a family. And I learned how to be a husband and a father from what I saw. And I learned what not to do. So usually the opposite isn't always necessarily the best because you kind of swing the pendulum too far the other way without getting the meat of the inside. And so we had these great marriage counselors before we got married. And just had, and there was a husband and wife. He was an ex football player.

So he was a man, right? He's six, seven, has seven kids, all homeschooled. And I'm like, dude, I respect you just by looking at you. And he was just like, Kellyn, you're going to be fine. You're going to be fine. And she would say, Kellyn, you're going to be fine. Brittany, you're going to be fine. And having a married couple, man and woman.

because it was really great having them be there. Because when I would say something, he would be able to translate it to her with all the tools that he has, coaching and be like, hey, what Kellynne's trying to say is like he's just trying to be seen here. And when he comes to you, if you can just like acknowledge,

acknowledge, affirm, you know, active listening. And I was like, yeah, exactly that. And a lot of things, it's just equipping us with tools. And so that's what we got with our girl out here in Tennessee. And again, we wouldn't have met her unless we lived here. So we're really, really grateful to be in Tennessee.

Fate, fate. Sometimes it's those little things that just can change your life and just let you see the light, you know, say, okay, you know what? There's, you know, we're going through a little rough patch or maybe things can just be better. And it's not always that things are going terribly wrong. It's more about, hey, how can we make things better? How could we understand each other better?

Yeah, one million percent. And I feel like. I not out of pride or ignorance, but you don't know what you don't know. And so a lot of times, even in my earlier relationships, I always thought they needed therapy. Not me. I'm even cute. I'm good. Yep.

Yep. I don't stink. You know, I might have an off day, but it's not. I'm fine. I'm fine, right? And so, but also, like, I love growing. I love, like, there's people in my life. after learning about fixed mindset and growth mindset, I love growing. I love learning. And I look back in my past,

after our therapist described, like people who have a fixed mindset who are just set in their ways, I'm like, oh, wow. You start taking inventory of all the friends that you had like that, family members. You're like, yeah, I don't want to be that. I don't like being around those people. I like being around people who can look at themselves in the mirror and have other people bring stuff up that they see in them. And then back, wow, okay, thank you. I trust you. I don't like that about myself and I want to be better. So yeah, therapy is great.

I'm really grateful for it. And I get the stigma. Like no one, no one wants, no one used to want to admit like they're going to therapy. And now I feel like everyone I know is going to therapy. Now it's like what level of therapy are you finding and how much growth are you developing within that. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you opening up because a lot of people listening to this podcast, You know, you know, BetterHelp is one of my big sponsors.

And I wholeheartedly believe in therapy and talking to someone about, you know, because we just get so many things bottled up inside us. And I think that it's like if you're not talking about it, if you're not releasing some of that stuff, you're just hurting yourself and you're hurting the people around you. And you're not growing. Like you said, growing is an important thing. So I appreciate it because a lot of people listening will be like, oh, this is cool. Oh, wait a minute.

He goes to therapy. This guy has it all. he's a movie star why is he why is he going there because we're humans yeah because you know and especially in our business you know people are always like yeah you're great you're great you're great you're no you didn't get the part you didn't get the part oh my god there's all your it's all all your life's all over the place you know and you need somebody to sit there and just go hey what's going on what's in your head do you know who you are because i sometimes i there's a point where I'm like, you know, you don't like yourself necessarily or you don't like things about

yourself. And you're like, how do I improve that? How do I let go of that stuff from the past and just go, God, I feel shame. I feel, you know, so it's, you know, I'm glad you talked about that. So thanks, man. Yeah, yeah, of course. And shame is a big part, like what you just brought up at the end and we can move on from it. But, you know, a lot of stuff does come down to shame. And a lot of shame that you don't even realize is there. And so it's, it's great that you touch. on that and being open with that and talking to someone because I remember and I don't know for you I don't I have a lot of friends I don't have there's maybe one guy I could call up and man to man be like hey dude I'm having a tough day yeah like do you have a good circle of friends I mean

yeah I think that's the I think they've kept me alive I really do because yeah I just have really good people. I mean, my best friend of 42 years grew up down the street for me. He was popular. I wasn't. He kind of took me under his wing. We went to college together. And then he just like was like so supportive and things happened for me. And then he would him and his girlfriend live with me in Los Angeles. They live with me when I was doing a show in Vancouver. I mean, I could tell him anything. And he's very honest. But you know, sometimes he'll go, nah, come on. It's not that. Like he'll he'll level with me. He's like, dude listen this is what being in a relationship is like i know you don't know that because you haven't been a ton but like you'll be like you know when you're in a relationship you're her problems are

now your problems too and vice versa yeah it's not just your shit it's her shit and you have to help navigate and you have to be support like you know and it's just like stuff that you you know and it's just i have i do i'm lucky i'm really lucky that i have a good group of friends because frankly frankly Tennessee I didn't have that growing up I'll just be honest with you I didn't have a support system I didn't go to my dad and can I wouldn't confide in him or my mother I just didn't do that I just you know it was old school mentality I had you know my feelings were sort of like all inside I couldn't yeah you know I so it was you know and then to be around people who love you unconditionally is a shock to the system. You know, it's like,

the way, am I capable of being loved? Do I deserve this? Do I, you know, all these things and what do I bring them to the table? So, but long story longer, I definitely have that group that I would, I don't know where I'd be if it wasn't for them. That's amazing. I'm really

grateful that you have that. This buddy of 42 years is he in the industry at all? No. Does he understand? Because I have a lot of friends not in the industry. And obviously our industry is very fluid. And I'm sure you have some actors who get it, you know, if you have industry feels, right? But for him, but there's a lot of people like, I'll explain or I'll share something, right?

So it may be fame from Twilight or dips in busyness. And a lot of my civilian friends, people who don't understand the industry or the flow, ed, eb, and flows of it, like, oh, come on, you know, oh, you're a six special. Come on. Come on. And it's like, ah, that's not the response I'm looking at. And I clock it. And I really do. I'm like, okay, I can only go so deep because they look at our lives. Yeah.

They look at fame. They look at being on TV or doing a movie or being in Hollywood. They assume you've got it going. What are you worried about? Yeah. And I wish that I could just absorb that and go, you're right. I shouldn't worry about anything. I'm not going to worry about anything.

My feeling's nothing. I got this. But that's not how it is. Yeah. So is your buddy of 42 years. Have you talked shop to him? Whatever the issue was, industry or, you know, fame and all of us. He knows it inside out now. He's learned a lot, but he still thinks he knows more than he knows. But he will like. I'm happy for you. He'll go, dude, you live in a beautiful house. You got your dogs that you love. You're doing great. You're in a hit show. You know, it's like it's still great. Yes, you're going to hit, you know, lulls and you'll feel like, yeah, you know, no one wants to hire you or, you know, no one, it's just, you know, what it is. What you're talking about is just an understanding or trying to understand and be like, you know, take everything more like, hey, I, it's educating them.

So over the 42 years from the time I was started getting famous or whatever, he watched the rise of me and he watched all the parties and the, fun and the drinking and he watched he saw the lulls and he saw this and so over the years he really he kind of gets it he kind of understands because it was like why aren't you on that show why aren't you dating Nicole kidman why aren't you doing this I'm like because that's not how it fucking works most of my friends in indiana just assume like dude you're good you don't have problems you shouldn't have problems so I have those like I said those close friends and it sounds to me like with therapy it's like your wife's your best friend she is my best friend I never had a best friend growing up

And what I learned again, I love that this is all going into therapy because there's been so many tools that I've learned that even in coffee shops, just the other day at my dentist, I got to share stuff. He's like, wow, that's really great. He's about to have a second baby. And his wife is dealing with morning sickness. And I learned a lot from my mistakes. But co-regulating. I didn't really know what that meant. It's about getting in the same robo as your person, as your spouse.

And what I used to do is if my wife was having an off day, I'd be like, okay, cool, I'm going to go take the kids, I'm going to go do chores, I'm going to clean the house for you. And my therapist is like, yeah, and how'd that work for you? At the end of the night, was she still in a bad mood? I'm like, oh, yeah. She's like, because you aren't co-regulating with her. You're in your own rowboat. She's in her rowboat. Storm's happening.

You have one paddle. You're making circles. You aren't doing anything together. And from that day and me learning, having that tool of co-regulation, getting in her book or getting in her boat, be in there and be like, hey, I notice that you're a little off. Like, what's going on? And like sharing, when you get to share your emotions with someone, because you can divide and conquer tasks, you can't divide and conquer emotions. Emotions need to be felt together, handled together. And when the storm comes and you're together in that rowbook, you can row through that storm.

And like that analogy that our therapist gave me, I was like, boom, light bulb. And so like any time. It just hit me. It's, I mean, it's beautiful. Although I'm going to now, it's going to be a non sequitur. I'm going to be like, hey, you're not feeling great. You're not, I'm in this rowboat with you. And she's like, what the fuck are you talking about?

I'm like, I'm in the rowboat. We're going to go through this storm together. She's like, go walk the dogs. Go, go. Get out of here with you. No, no, no. That's not what I'm supposed to do. I want to get in the rowboat. But I understand what you're saying. It's more like, hey, I'll go do this. I'll go do this. I'll go do this. I'm right here. You need me? I'm here. I'm here. I'm just want to talk about you. I just want to talk about things. Whatever you want to do. I'm here with you. We'll get through this together.

You know, that's all you can do. And isn't that beautiful having someone there that will be there for you instead of avoiding you? Because that was my whole MO where I'd be like, okay, you know, she's a thermostat. I'm filling the pins. Let's go this way and try and make her happy by doing all this stuff. And it just wasn't, especially when you live in the same house, share the same bed, you got kids, you got to do life together. And I've just been learning so much. And that's why I say going back to it, I wish I had started this a long, long time ago.

But I'm glad I'm doing it now because I do have two kids and I want to be the best debt for them. And it's cool. It's cool kind of healing stuff because I have a son who's three and a half and that was the age that my parents divorced. And I see little killing in him and I get a hold to him and I get to like heal from things, which is beautiful when you have kids. And then your kids are half your best friend, your spouse and you.

And there's a lot of healing. There's a lot of magic that happens. And it's special. Inside of you is brought to you by Shopify. If you aren't with Shopify, I don't know what to say. Shopify is where you start your business. Okay, that's where you go if you're going to start your business. This is what I did for this podcast.

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Build your own business with a free trial at Shopify.com slash inside. All you need is the idea. Shopify handles the rest. Start your free trial at Shopify.com slash inside. That's Shopify.com slash inside. I take it that your childhood wasn't easy. Nope. You know, people, I always say, like, if you're a parent,

the best thing you can do, and I'm not a parent. But growing up with dysfunction, listen to your kids, listen to them, love them unconditionally, tell them you're proud of them, be there for them, ask them how their day is. I just, I didn't get any of that. I didn't get any of that. And it's, it's a hard pill. I just didn't know, I guess that's normal.

And then I woke up, you know, in my 30s and 40s going, you know, you're emotionally immature because you don't really know what unconditional love means. You don't know what like someone wanting to do something for you and letting them instead of being like, no, no, I can do it. I can do it. I don't need anybody's help. I'm, I can handle this. Now I'm like, I'm scared or I got some fear here. What if I fail, you know, and talking through it.

And, you know, it's, it's amazing what childhood can do to you if you don't get the things that are so important. Well, and I also have a lot of empathy for our parents' generation. And their parents' generation, right? Like, I know my parents did the best that they could. And they still dropped the ball in a lot of areas. And it's something that thank God for us. And if he ever decided to have kids, if not, you know, you still have the wisdom of that.

But we do have information now. We do have resources and tools. And, you know, our parents would never go to a therapist. Like, that was that thing like, the shame. I'm not going to therapy. I'm not going to marriage counseling. You're the problem. And it's it's something where I'm glad that that swing has happened,

that now it's something you can talk about it or not, but it's still important, like you said, your mental health. You can work on your physical, but what about your mind? Yeah. You know, a lot of this, I will say, maybe you'll agree, but these experiences that you had growing up, and it makes you a better actor, I think, because you're able to tap into that loneliness, that emptiness, that not feeling love,

that at least for me, that anger, like I was just talking to Fred Armisen, who was on yesterday, which I was like starstruck, I just love him. And we were talking about it, and I go, I could just tap into an anger because of what I saw as a kid. And it's easy for me. And he's like, really? And so I think it helps. You don't even realize it until. I mean, do you use it as a tool?

So it's interesting that you mentioned that because I'm the opposite. I blacked out my childhood. Oh, wow. So for me and my growing up and me going back, like my wife remembers coming out of the womb, she's like, I have a photographic memory. I remember that as a joke, but she does remember as young as one, you know, and then two, my memory blocked until I was about five or six. And so those key emotions, anger, all those developments were so stuffed down that I felt

becoming an actor trying to pull from my core memories, that person, those things, I felt blocked. Oh, wow. So I would try and tap into these feelings that I think I thought I had or like, obviously my parents divorce. That doesn't bring joy. So I must have been sad and angry. well let's act sad and i had nothing to pull from right so when i would be trying to do that in my acting when every teacher's like pull from your past i'm like oh you know you do these like fake

crying nothing and i got that in the earlier years of my crew until i learned how to like create emotions and you know think about the character and different sort of techniques okay if it's not from your own memory you can still sympathize with your character and going through something and create that emotional onion that you're peeling back. And that worked really well for me because I'm very sentimental and emotional. But I wasn't able to tap into those core emotions, like anger like that because I was just so closed off emotionally. And if you don't have those joys or allow yourself to have those joys or those depths even,

like if you don't remember the sad, angry, then you don't also get to experience. the highs. So it's like, yeah, it's very complex for me. Yeah, that's, that's interesting to hear, but I bet like through therapy and stuff, you've been able to kind of go back now. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Ugly, like hyperventilating tears. Like, yeah, me too. Where's this coming from? And it just, like, comes out. And my wife's like, I'm so sorry. I'm like, oh, you know, but it's freeing. And, and again, that's my mission. I love acting. I'll always want to act. I fell into it when I was going to college, but I always wanted to be a dad. And being able to be the healthiest that I can by doing this and being able to, you know, just be free for them is like the biggest gift. And,

and, yeah, so it's, yeah, it's cool. That's cool. I love that. What was your first big break? I would have to say, um, I'd have to say the comeback probably. Yeah, the comeback for HBO. So they just did season three, which is out now, I believe. Yeah. And Lisa was so amazing to work with. Lisa D. She seems that way. Yeah, just so talented.

And I remember because I was going to college for chemical engineering at Chapman University. And whilst there, because I had started modeling when I was 14 and traveling the world, making money. Thank God my best friend's like, you should model. And I'm like, what is modeling? And she's like, da-da-da, you know, and it, you know, God really just orchestrated that career that led into acting. And I've just loved it. And then I did, so I kind of put my full ride of college away, which was hard for my mother. She's like, what?

What are you doing? What is this acting thing? And she just had no idea. And I had no idea that you can just become an actor. I thought it was like NASCAR or something. Like you had to be born into it. You had to be a certain look. And so it just kind of worked out.

And right time, right place. This was the time when there was One Tree Hill, the O.C. If you're blonde hair, blue-eyed, you'd book some guest star. And so when I booked that TV show as I think it was recurring, maybe seven out of 13 episodes and the money with it. and the prestige of being on HBO and with Lisa Kudrow, it really just sort of solidified that I could take care of myself with my mom, like with her being like, okay, okay, you know, you got this. Yeah.

I get it. And, and yes, so that was great and did some other things like Stickett was my first movie. Yeah. Jeff Bridges was amazing. That's my wife's favorite movie. Stick it. And then, yeah. And then Twilight came really quick after that and really grateful.

Yeah, do you remember like the audition process of that? Yeah. Yeah, I had just gotten done doing Generation Kill in Africa for seven months. And that was an amazing experience. I remember the day I left, I love adventures. I love experiences. I love to travel. But I had never been away from my family.

family for seven months. Like it was the first time they're like, hey, this is a, you have a passport, you aren't coming back. There's no time to come back. You know, you're so far away. And if you only have one day off, you just can't. And so I had a girlfriend at the time, had a dog at the time. I remember leaving my house. And the nerves finally hit of like the reality of what I'm about to partake on. And I threw up in my, in my bushes right outside my house. Just like, like the nerves. And the only other time that happened was when I was playing a big football game in high school, you know, and you like throw up beforehand just to get the willies out.

Yeah. And then I went there, did that. And it was seven months of my life. It really, uh, it was really special because I, I made friends with all the Generation Kill guys. Alex Scars guard was in that, uh, the late PJ, um, you know, really Wilson Bethel, Eric Layden, Eric Neninger, uh, John Wirtes.

I mean, just 32 amazing actors from all around the world playing, you know, Army Man, Marine. And I drove Humvee, shotguns, seven months in Africa. So I was done. Like, at the end of seven months, I was like, I am, I need a break. This is a long time. It took a month to shoot one episode, proud of it. Really, really proud of it. So I flew back home, and that's when the audition came in.

They're like, hey, there was already actually someone who was cast as Emmett, my character, which I didn't know about at the time, but that role came back up. And my team, who I trusted, they're like, hey, this is going to be big. I know you want to break. You just got home, but can you audition for this role? I was like, just because it's you, I'll do it. And so I did, I changed my flight back to Arizona because that's where my mom was at the time. And I did this audition.

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And so I go into this audition and I had four lines to read, I think. and it was more of the physicality, how big this guy was. And I remember watching other guys doing pushups in the room, in the waiting room. And I was like, you know, I do that as well to get that bulk. And then I did the audition and they liked it and they called me up to Oregon to meet with Catherine. Red for her. She's like, you're my Emmett. Go to baseball training.

I'm like, okay, what does that mean? And so everything was just like, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then I started shooting Twilight. And it was wild what it turned into. And I'm grateful. I'm really grateful because as an actor, I never really had the vision to, like, I wish, I wish and curious for you, did you do theater growing up? Did you know you always? Okay. So you knew you always wanted to be an actor. Sort of. I went to college after I did a play and took drama in high school. And then in college I found myself and I started auditioning and getting cast and lead roles. And then I started to fall in love with. They did a repertory theater and then was like, you know, wait a minute. And then it kind of took off from there.

Where did you go to college? Western Kentucky University in Bowling Green Kentucky. Okay. So was that, was that theater program a known theater program? Good theater program. I don't know how well known, but good. How did you become an actor from, like how did you books up? Did you have an agency over there and.

No, I just went to college, right? I went to Western and I took the drama classes and all these different things and started can cast and plays and built the confidence. And then I went to New York afterwards. Okay. And started doing off-Broadway stuff and like it still wasn't booking and then booked a couple of voiceovers for a while. And then I got cast in Clint Eastwood's Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil and a TV

show right at the same time and flew to L.A. and did the TV show and been there ever since. And it kind of just took off from there. And it really, it's a crazy story. I want to write a book some time of like the craziness that. Yeah. Like, you know, yeah, but what about you? Like theater and all that stuff?

No, I didn't. There wasn't, I had, no, there was nothing. I played sports growing up. I grew up in a big family. My mom said, do marching band. So I chose the trombone while playing football. It was just never on our radar at all growing up in Arizona. And so I wish I did because I really do love it.

and I found a passion, probably my favorite passion in my life at the age of 19. And so I've made a career out of it. When Twilight came, because a lot of actors like, oh, I want to win an Oscar. I want to win an Emmy. I want to win in, was it, Egot? Is that what it is? An Egot? I don't care about awards.

I like what I get to do. I like playing characters. It's adult make-believe. and I really do love it. But with that being said, where was I going with this? Oh, as far as the fame. Like I just never, I didn't realize what Twilight would be. I'm so grateful that I got a taste of the dragon.

Yeah. However, people say it where like, oh, fame, because a lot of people strive for that. I still have friends who, unfortunately, even post-COVID, I mean, times are tough right now. They gave up their families. They gave, you know, they're still staying there. They've sacrificed a lot in unhealthy ways to still chase this dragon of fame.

And I remember Jeff Bridges when I was on a stick it. He, uh, his advice to me, I always love asking people for advice. He's like, Kellan, make your life outside of the industry. Because if you make your, your life the industry, it is made to chew you up and spit you out. Great advice. And that was during stick. In my young years,

I always clocked that. And there were times, even post Twilight when I was, you know, going out for Captain America and Thor and like, you know, really the pressure was really, really on that I was like,

this, da, da, I need to be so regular and strict and, and do this. do that and then I'd get so bummed on myself. I'm like, man, I lost me. Yeah. I lost, I lost, I lost, I lost that light. I lost, I got so, like, stressed and desperate and tried to be, there was a part where there's a, there was a period in my life I remember, because I love Jason Statham. I'm so grateful I got to work with him. But he was the action hero to me. Like,

Sly, Arnold, all those guys, like, being a part of Expendables Three was a, amazing. Yeah. But Statham having that voice, you know, and the look. And so I would, I would, I would go into auditions thinking my voice was deep like that and sexy like that. And, and like, I think maybe it was my girlfriend at the time or maybe it was one of my agents. You know, I think it was my manager who was like, hey, you know I love you, right? And I'm like, yeah, what do you mean? No, I love you as like, uh, you know, you're like a brother to me, can I ask you why you're doing that with your voice? And I was like, what do you mean? He's like, you're just not you anymore. And are you, do you think it's working? Do you think it's? And I'm like,

oh, you mean this? And he's like, yeah, that. And I'm like, does it sound cool? He's like, no, it doesn't. Don't do that. He's like, don't do that. I'm like, oh, okay. And then there was another time when I had, I'd finish Hercules. And I learned the accent. And I thought my accent, are you good at accents? You got a good voice. I mean, I think you probably are really good. I mean, I could do accents pretty well.

I mean, I'm not great at all of them, but I could do, I do a lot of impressions and things. I could definitely do Southern real well. I could do New York really well. I could do, yeah, I mean, for the most part, I think I'm pretty good. Like when we did Immortals and Hercules, we even had accent trainers. So every day they would work with you for like an hour. You'd have a cork in your mouth and be like, you know, my mother, and you'd be saying this British PR or old English.

And so in my head, I sounded like I had this great accent. And it worked in the movies. Like I think I did enough training that I pushed down my contemporary self. And with enough training made it sound. Like I was really happy with how I sounded. in Hercules post movie. I think I saw someone who was British, like continue on with an accent

because they had worked in. I'm like, oh, that's what you do. That's a real actor. You had it. You embody this character so much that you can't just shed it within a day. And I started doing press for my movie. Months later, still it with my Hercules accent.

And they're like, oh, you saw it. Is that your normal accent? Is that your, I'm like, no, it's for the role. And I look back at that interview in a few interviews. I'm like, and I don't get embarrassed. I can laugh at myself, but I'm like, man, that sounded so corny and so fake. I love that you did it, though. And now you look back and you could laugh and go, you know, fuck it.

I mean, I honestly, I wish I could do accents. I wish I could do impressions. That would be really. I wish I could sing. I wish I could. I can work on it, but there's only so many hours in a day. Yeah, but you know, use your strengths. You have a lot of strengths.

Go with those that people that people don't have, you know? Exactly. Be me. Be me. And if something calls for it, like I have this one movie where I have to play the guitar in it. And I really do want to learn. Now you don't need to learn. You don't need to be John Mayer, you know, but I can learn these songs to be.

That's the work of the actor, right? That's the job for it. And so even when I do my action movies, it's like I want a certain physique when I do it. Now I might not have the Jason Statham voice or the shaved head, but I get to be me out there in the Kellyn Lutz action world. Even though I'm pivoting more to comedies and dramas again like I did earlier in my career, there's just things that are within the realm of Kellyn that I can work towards.

The best advice I got was because I tried to interpret. emulate Gary Oldman. I had his hair in the 90s. I watched every Gary Oldman move. I knew every part. I knew every line he did. And then my acting professor, Dr. Leonard, goes, they're not looking for Gary. Another Gary Oldman. Yeah. They're looking for Michael Rosenbaum. Yeah. Everyone's different. Go with who you are and what you're doing. Don't try to be someone else because they don't want that. They already have that. So it's like the more you just kind of embrace who you are and what your abilities are, like you said, I think the happier you'll be, the less stressful you'll be.

And you're like, you know, the more individuality you'll have. Yeah. You know, it's easier said than done. But like, look, we all want to be cooler. Look, at my whole life, I've been chasing cool. And I realized you're just not a really cool dude. You're just kind of a fun sort of. What would you say, Ryan?

Ryan's over there, my engineer. Fun? I think you're cool. I think you're fun. I mean, I know you and I don't know us, you know, too well I haven't watched.

But every time in person, like you've always been very, very kind, very fun, always smiling. Yeah, I'm always like, you know,

I love how Ryan, who's known me for years, can't come up with anything to describe me the fuck. But, but, he's like, I don't know.

you're you're you're asshole inside of you is brought to you by Patreon that yeah you know Ryan I'm talking about Patreon this is this is a place where people can congregate online and talk about episodes talk about life people have made friends there's so many perks and most importantly you've certainly helped this podcast and I know a lot of people have come up to me about you know, their health, their mental health and how I open up about that stuff and talk to guests. And it really blows me away. But it's such a wonderful community. And you guys have really helped me. And if you're out there and you're listening and you like the podcast and you want to support us, patreon.com slash inside of you. There's so many perks. And I always look at it like, you know,

people pay streamers for a lot of entertainment. Well, you got our regular YouTube channel for the episode. You got our clips channel. You got the Patreon. You got so much fun. You could be on the show you can get boxes for me every couple of months um you can ask questions to guess and much much more and i really appreciate your help and support of the podcast so patreon.com slash inside of you if you want to support and give back to patron we really appreciate you thanks let me ask you a question like what what was the what was the hardest part in your career was it once like how was it once smallville and because how long did that go i did it see Seven years.

Seven years. Was it hard having that end or was work pretty consistent? Or was there a period that was, because post-Twilight for me, having paparazzi outside my house all the time, I wasn't able to leave. And then I lived at the beach and, you know, I'd be in magazines, stoppage. It's like, oh, look at this guy. He just cares about his physique. I'm like, I love the beach.

I live by the beach. But then like the pressure, I think, for me, I lost my secret sauce. I lost Kellyn trying to be these other things post-Twilight that just wasn't working. And that was really hard on my mind. Yeah. No, I get it. I think for me, I always, I never looked at it as like, you're in a show and now you have to top that. You have to be, you know, you have to.

It was more like, hey, I was on one of the biggest shows ever. And that's rare. Exactly. And I did a great job. And that's enough. So I'm never going to get to that height again. And if I do, amazing, but I'm not striving for it. I'm not looking for it.

I'm looking at experiences now. I'm looking at, well, I have fun. Is there an element of fun in this project? Am I going to, you know, if it's too stressful, it's too, you know, you want to be challenged as well. But I don't look at it as like, oh, he was Lex Luthor on Smallville and then he did some shows and this and that, but they weren't as successful. Of course they're not.

So I don't get all caught up in all that. And I think that I'm grateful because earlier on you were talking about fame. And I think a lot of people want to be famous. I'm not going to lie. I wanted to be famous. I wanted to be an actor. And I wanted to be known. And I wanted to be with cool, you know, act with other great actors.

And, you know, and things sort of shifted when I realized, okay, I've had a taste of all this. And I'm lucky and I'm grateful. But, you know, I'm cool with whatever. And I hope that the things, the endeavors that I sort of, you know, go after or the things I do, I hope people see them. I hope people listen or watch or I hope people, you know, want me. But I can't control that.

Yeah. I can never control that. No. At 53, almost 54, I'm just sort of like, hey man, I'm making a living. I'm having a good time. I'm going to these cons. Fans still love me. And it's about hanging out with family and friends.

friends and my dogs and those are the, the older you get, the more important those things are. Because everything fades, you know, when we die, we die, it's like you just have memories. You just have, you know, that's all life is, is creating these memories. Like you say you're an adventurist, you like to do these things. You know, you with your kids and being a dad, those are the most important things, always. And some things will sometimes feel bigger than they really are. make them out to be bigger. Oh, you don't understand this is this. Look, it's still a movie. It's still a TV show. It's pretend time. Let's have fun. Let's do the best. If we get fired,

that sucks, but, you know, moving on or if people don't acknowledge it like we were hoping, no expectations. Just go into it, and I know you know this. I mean, nothing's going to be as as big as Twilight. I mean, it was one of the biggest sensations in the history, you know, and that's a huge achievement. And you were an integral part of that. And that, So I understand my family and counseling and like being closer with your wife and all these things. It's like you want to be the best person you could be. And that's life because it could all end tomorrow. We don't know.

And it's happened. You know, I just lost a friend two weeks ago who directed this movie Urban Legend who passed away. Unexpectedly of a heart attack. It was like he was such a great guy and just had a just loved life and made you laugh. and was interested in you and he's gone and that's it and that kind of sucks you know so i always i try to count my blessings and just uh and i get caught up in my own shit i'm like oh this could be good this could be this this could be that then i'm like all right just hang on get off your high horse and just go do the best you can and see what happens well if it's yours it's yours right like there's

there's we all have competition out there i was talking to another buddy of mine who we look different So we've never really been competitive, but he gets second place all the time. Right. Tests for things. And he's like, man, it sucks. I'm like, grass is always greener, right? Because I either, I don't get a callback or I book it. And so it's like, man, I wish I could just get second place.

He's like, bro, you don't. Because that yo-yo of emotions of you might have a job that you really want and then it doesn't come. I'm like, yeah, but at least you know people like you because you're getting second place. place all the time. He's like, yeah. But again, I just always held on to the belief of there's enough work. Now times have changed. But pre-COVID, there was enough work that so-and-so couldn't do all the jobs. And the one that is right for me, as long as I'm prepared, as long as I'm ready when the audition comes, I'm there, I step in. I like, I miss being in front of casting directors. I miss having that rapport with them.

I sell myself great with that first impression or when people, cast directors know you and you get to play catch up in the beginning. I miss that so much. Now we have these self-tapes. I'm like, oh, man. It's hard to show your personality

in a self-tape. I think it's all luck. You know, it's all luck. And what do they say? Luck is a commodity of preparation and opportunity. Yeah. You know, if you prepare, when that opportunity happens, that's luck.

Do you know that Fort Minor song? No. You know Fort Minor Ryan? 10% luck. 20% skill, power and will. That just, you remind me of that one.

Oh, really? You got to look at it up. It's one of my favorite songs, but it's like, there is luck in there, right? Like, you got to be prepared.

You got to have skill. You have to have talent. You got to have the end factor. Yeah. And going back to like the whole thing. Like, thank God you and I, like,

we're a part of a hit show. Like I didn't know. No acting teacher says, hey, be a part of a Marvel, a DC, a vampire or a zombie. You don't know.

Right? Yeah. But like being a vampire, we get to go to these conventions, especially nowadays, where people are dying to have this in person, human to human interaction. Isn't that awesome? Not with AI. I mean, now my show, your show, everything is multi-generational. And it's really special to be able to do that.

And yeah, it's cool. When you go to these cons, how awesome is it that people want to see you? All these people want to see you? Yeah, I got to say it's multi. I layered as far as how amazing it is because I do love to travel. And being in Tennessee, you know, feeling landlocked, I'm like, oh, man, I'm itching to travel more. Whereas when I lived in California in Newport Beach, I'd go to Corona or I'd go to CDM beach and I felt, I mean, in California, like you live, it's a vacation destination.

People come there to vacation and you live there. So I really do miss that feeling. But I get to travel. And one of the great things is, yes, the fans are amazing, especially the multi-generational ones, where Twy moms who had kids, who are now older watching the movies with them, now they have kids.

And it's like these three generations of watching Twilight that you then get to hug, you get to talk, you either share stories. They're blown away. Another great thing about that is having my kids so young, daddy working is only three to four days away. And my wife and I, we have a two-week rule. Good.

And it's nice that I get to just leave and come back and get to be super present with them. Because I don't feel like I had that growing up. And that's always been a top priority for me to be present with them. And with that, I'm grateful for these cons, because even financially, right, they've been really great. And you don't have to worry about how slow our acting industry is. or I've never said more no than I have these last five years to projects because there's just a lot of crap out there. And it's really, it's sad. Like I've read some really great scripts that just aren't being made or able to be financed.

And then I've read some really out there ones. I'm like, okay, this budget's $1 million and you want to do all this. Yeah, good luck. Yeah, good luck with that. It's weird, man. It's because how long, how long, have you been acting 30 years? 35 years. I was, I guess, professionally.

I got my sack card in 95. So that's 31, 32 years. Yeah. So you've seen it change just as much as I mean. Oh, yeah. I miss those old days of seeing like all my friends out there, the Lillards and the Seth Greens and the Zach, you know, all these people in the room, you know, in the waiting to audition and go, oh, yeah, dude.

Yeah. And, you know, and going up for big parts and me, going in with the. getting that nervous energy and then going in there and killing it in the room and still not getting it or getting it you know back then you would get feedback at least because you're in the room that yeah yeah you know you get feedback i like what uh lillard said he's been great he worked on the fbi i most wanted with peter facheli uh in the but he just did an interview and i saw a clip i don't go on social media too much but i saw this and he's like yeah you know there's there's dips there's years where you don't work and it's dry but you always need to be progressing in your crap you always got to have

you know be working on something taking classes doing life like filming something writing something being prepared when it is slow so when your opportunity comes again and he's had really cool successes oh yeah it's it's fun to see him and he's so humble and he's such a great guy such a great him and skeet yeah that's great oh i love skeet skeet's a close friend of mine too he's just the great guy dude emick cohen at twilight a poseidon and immortals tarsian the animated film was amazing the expendables three, the comeback. You've done so much. What is coming up?

Anything coming up that you want to promote? Yeah, I'm writing. I mean, I'm finally like writing a couple of scripts. My wife and I, we just wrote a book that Penguin Random House, we're going to be publishing with them. I think we're going to be doing more books. My wife wants to do some more fiction. That's great.

And just doing stuff that you can control, right? Yes. The industry's there. I've been a part of three or four independent movies that still haven't gone, right? The financing. So it's more her and I doing stuff writing. I'm going to be doing a men's devotional. You know,

my faith is really big to me and start every day in my Bible. And so I'm going to do a men's devotional. We have our book that is coming out next year. And then probably some speaking engagements for my wife and I. We really love marriage and we really love helping couples with what we learned. So I can see that in the future. But I would love to do other movies and, you know, anything. I really wanted him in.

that didn't happen but maybe in the sequel I can play a role in that hopefully I just pray masters of the universe is such a success because that would be a dream come true yes well you know here's the funny thing I had all these questions and we started talking about mental health and life and all of a sudden I'm like well so I'm just going to have to say hey you got to come back at some point of course would you do it we'd love to you're an amazing dude and I had no idea other than the cons and meeting him going this guy's really he's a nice guy i don't know a ton about him but he's really cool and you know i bet you know and talking to you from the get go i was like this is going to be a great interview because it's just honesty and it's life and it's about

being grateful and it's about moving forward and it's just uh i just really appreciate you being here with me today because it means a lot. It does. That blesses me. And thank you for what you do. I don't, I don't do podcasts. I don't really, I don't know. I don't know why. I think, uh, I have a lot of friends, even Peter every time. He's like, Helen, you should start your own podcast. And I can see myself start one. I just like talking to people. I like going deep right away. Yeah. I, I really respect you and what you do in your career and then with your podcast. And I remember when you asked me, and I know Ashley had just on yours and you get a lot of friends and celebs to do, especially at these conventions, right? We work with, like, everyone at these cons for the most part are really nice, amazing human beings.

Yeah. So when you ask me, I'm like, I would love to do Michaels. You know, I would love to be a part of his show. And so thank you for asking me, and I would love to do it again. And Ryan, what's up, man? Don't see you, but good job what you're doing. It really is. You're a great.

You're honestly one of my favorite guests already. just because it's it's just you're so disarming and so uh you just real it's like it's see who you are i see who you are how faith is important how family is important how you know um your past doesn't define you yeah doesn't define you and like how to get better how to move forward how to broaden your horizons and yeah i loved having you on i'm going to keep all these other questions for next time as well yeah all right guys take care of yourself we'll see Kellen You rock, buddy

there's also a movie My buddy's trying to get made And Killen's Supposedly going to be in it Ooh Well, that's what he says He says he's, you know, got him attached,

But that would be cool Wouldn't that be dope? Maybe I'll be in it I'll do something with you, Kellen. That'll be awesome. Again, I couldn't do this

Without the patrons And I'm going to read out their names They get their name shouted out The top tiers And I always say it's like a It's like a, it's like a streaming service, you know, you pay for content. Well, here you get clips and episodes and tons of stuff on Patreon.

So if you want to get back, get back. Patreon.com slash Insight of you. Help the freaking podcast. Here are the names. I love these folks. Nancy D. Little Lisa, Ukiko, Nico B. Rob B.

The fourth. Jason. Christop. Christo. Christoph? It's his birthday. Nico. Happy birthday.

I want to say Christo I mean, will it be? This is No, it's past his birthday But just, you know Jason W. Raj C. Stacey L. Jamal F Janelle B, Mike Eldon Supremo 99 more San Diego M. Kendrick F Belinda N. Dave H.

Bill O'Dave. Hello Dave. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom N. Talia M. David G. Betsy D. Rian C. Michelle A. Jeremy C. Mr. Melski. Eugene R. Monica T. Mell S. Eric H. Kevin E. Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Jules M. Jessica B. Frank B. Gen Tocterman. Talk to me. Talk to me. Talk toman. Randy S. Randis. Claudia. Rachel D. Nitt W. Stephanie and Evan. Stefan. Stefan. That's correct. Charlene A. Don G. Jenny B. 76. N. G. Tracy. Kee. Heather and Greather. Heather. I don't know why I went so high with it. You went high. You got high. Pierre C. Sulton, Dave T.

David L. Brian B. T. Paw. Gary F. Bradley H. Ritzel Pitzel. Benjamin R. Other brother Daryl. A. B. Kilby. Elizabeth R. Or Elizabeth R. Elizabeth. We'll never know. Yes. Eduardo Roman V. Julie F. J. Wayne P. and Merritt. Badge. I want to see Merritt's face. I want to know who merit. I want to know who all these guys are. You know, I see a lot of them on when we do Z. So I'm going to do a Zoom for the top tier soon after I get back from the cruise and we'll We'll see each other for sure. We are going on the cruise digitally, but personally. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Thanks for listening from the Hollywood Hills and Hollywood, California.

I'm Michael Rosenbaum. He is. I'm Ryan Tayas. Yeah, a little wave to the camera. You like what we do? I mean, we give a little intro, but then we move. We do the interview. Don't people appreciate that?

Yeah. So it's not like a bunch of shit. and I let the guest talk. Yeah. Fuck. Give me props. All right. I love you guys.

Be good to yourself. See you next week.