Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - KEVIN SMITH: Bottoming Life, Embracing Fandom & The Current State of Filmmaking

Episode Date: June 4, 2024

Kevin Smith (Clerks, Mallrats) joins us this week to share the duality of having immense gratitude for everything he’s been able to accomplish throughout his career, all the while being cursed with ambition that drives him to create more. Being a trailblazer in independent film, Kevin gives us his opinion about the current state of filmmaking post pandemic, the cyclical similarities between major sci-fi franchises, and the problem with today’s movie rating system. We also talk about creating a legacy off of a basic name, bottoming your way through life, and embracing fandom. Thank you to our sponsors: 🚀 Rocket Money: https://rocketmoney.com/inside 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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work at participating restaurants in canada you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum we had two uh sold out live podcast shows for for Talkville last week and still buzzing, still buzzing. The crowd was insane. Speaking of buzzing, I'll turn this light on. Oh, yeah, look at that. That's nice. We've got the inside of you light on now.

Brian, you had fun. You were a bit of a rock star. I had fun. I wasn't sure what to expect. And it was cool. It exceeded all expectations. There was a warm reception. Yeah.

Which I didn't expect. Yeah. Thank you guys for joining us and supporting that podcast. And thank you for supporting. this podcast if you're new to this if you're here for kevin smith and you enjoy the podcast hey if you really enjoy it i ask you to follow us on our handles or at inside of you podcast on uh instagram and facebook at inside of you pod on the twitter you can go to my instagram at the michael rosenbaum and the link tree for cameos uh the inside of you online store where you can get uh lexmus scripts signed by me

lunch boxes small the lunchbox is signed by me tons of stuff there's so much cool merch also sunspin uh com for my band there's cool tumblers and hats and you can support that we're doing a another stage it which isn't um it isn't listed yet but it's uh i can't speak today but it is july 20th we're going to do that we're going to do a show at five o'clock p.m pacific standard time and we're going to do a virtual show and that's fun there's zooms and stuff tom and i will be doing the washington State Con, which is exciting. We're going to do a Smallville Nights, so make sure you get tickets to that on my link tree at the Michael Rosenbaum.

And thank you to all my patrons who really support this show and support Talkville and keep this show going without you guys. I don't know what I do. But if you want to join and give back to the podcast for some entertainment, go to patreon.com slash inside of you, P-A-T-R-E-O-N-com slash inside of you. And, you know, last but not least, my new product, Rosie's Puppy Fresh Breath is out. So if your dog has bad breath, you just put a couple drops in your dog's water, boom, tasteless, odorless. Your dog doesn't know it.

It's drinking water. And all of a sudden, the breath is good. So you can get that. The QR code is there. It's on Amazon, Rosie's Puppy Fresh Breath. And you can pre-order, which is the talented farder, which is on Amazon pre-order, which comes out in October. It is a sound book of farts. They are real farts.

They are my farts. And it is a great book. Simon & Schuster's putting it out. And just a lot of groovy stuff going on. We've got a great guest today. Ryan, Kevin Smith is back. It was good. It was cool to have him here because the last time he was over Zoom.

He's such a great personality. And having him here was, for me, it was electric. It was just like bouncing off each other. And he's so, he's just full of knowledge and full of honesty. You know, and I try, I would say things about rotten tomatoes. and like, oh, I don't like that. And he's just, he's a positive guy. And maybe that's through experience and just doing it so long and so much that he has

a different perspective of how to deal with things and how to take things and just try to make things that he loves and go with that. And it's the process and it's making something. And I like Kevin a lot. I think it's just he has perspective on things. He does. You know, it's just the act of having perspective. Yeah, which is very good.

It is. And I think I have perspective on some things, but after listening to him, I found new perspective. Yeah. Perspective of seeing through other people's perspective and kind of grasping at certain things that I just admire or gravitate towards. You know what I mean? I understand him. Yeah. Yeah.

Great podcast today. I think you're going to really love Kevin Smith, having him right at the house. And we talk about a lot of his new projects and everything he's doing. and I hope someday he'll put me in something because I'd love to work with Kevin. He just seems like such a great guy to work with. And again, thank you for coming to the sold-out Talkville podcast shows at the Bourbon Room. It was crazy. And also, don't forget on the Link Tree, the New Jersey, it's a Smallville Con the first time ever.

You got to get tickets now. It's in New Jersey. It's in October, plenty of time. Come see me and Tom. It's a smallville event. There's going to be a lot of guest stars and, you know, folks from the show. And maybe Ryan will come. Who knows?

Maybe I will. Maybe I will. Maybe you will. That'll be fun. Yeah. I loved it. I think you should maybe come to a con and just like, you know, I'll take care of your flight and your hotel. And, you know, you'll just go there.

There's a lot of the country I still have yet to see. Yeah. You just hang out in New Jersey for a weekend with me and Tom. Yeah, Jersey. Had dinner, walk around, look at shit. and go, okay, I don't ever want to do this again, or I loved it. You know, meet all the other actors that you've been watching on Smallville for the last. It'd be probably weird for you.

That would be strange, but it would be cool. I feel like I know them, just because I know you and Tom now. Yeah. I feel like I already should know them. You know what I mean? Yes. I feel like they're co-workers. They're co-workers, yes.

They are co-workers of yours. Just go up to Chris and say, hey, we're co-workers. I don't know who the hell you are. Yeah. She knows. Yeah. So anyway, look. What?

I hope. I hope. Yes. She'll love you. She's a sweet, sweet girl. All right, let's get into it. Let's get inside of Kevin Smith. It's my point of view.

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. I'm very presentational. So when I begin a podcast, there's a, you know, hey, man, fucking blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. Now, that is how I fuck as well. I'm very presentational. I'm about to go in.

Yeah, you just did something real subtle and like, fucking all of a sudden, we were fucking. I was like, oh, shit, I didn't even realize I was that seduced. Me, I'm the other guy who's like, oh, my God, we're going to have some fucking tonight. Let me tell you what the lineup includes, man. Some licking, some dicking. It's going to be fantastic. Ladies and gentlemen live from Los Angeles, California, director, writer, producer, actor, author.

I'll take all of that. I love all the titles. Kevin Smith. But more importantly, don't you go like, you know, hey man, this is fucking Rosie and I'm inside of you or what? I have an intro. We do an intro later and we talk about like all the shit. That's where you say.

And then we say, and let's get inside. So the show has already begun. Right. So let's get inside Kevin Smith. But whatever we do is. I am. This is this right here. I right.

Now I'm showing my bias, right? because I assume the show begins with me, but no, it begins with you. It begins with me and it ends with me. I guess you're right. What you can tell me, Michael, is like, hey, you're not directing this. Just be a guest. Is that hard for you, by the way? Still in your lane.

Do you like, yeah, it is probably hard that you, you're always seeing like, oh, this angle. I want to do this. Not at all. Like, I can go to a movie and enjoy it and I'm never like, I got it on that better. Not one. Really? Never. Never.

Because when I go to a movie theater and it's not one of my things, I devolve right back into fan. And I don't mean devolve like, because that's a lower life form. I started as a fan, a film fan who aggregated toward making films. I'll finish as a fan. I've remained a fan all throughout, right? So I started as a fan, remain a fan. And one day they're not going to let me do this anymore or my body won't let me do it anymore

or whatever. And so I'll finish as a fan. as well. So for me, I watch a movie never once. Never once do I sit there and go like, I could have done this and I would have done that better. Do you still say bad? That's terrible. This is terrible.

Never. Oh, my God. You never watch a movie and go, that's fucking terrible. I just wasted my money. No, I'll get out before then. Because chances are I'm not in a theater when this is happening. And if I am in a theater when it's happening, chances are I own the movie theater. Like I own Smodcastle Cinema's, my movie theater in Jersey. So that's where I get it plug plug that's why i get to see movies for free more or less so if i ain't into it it's just

like streaming at home where i'm like oh i'll pause and i'll move on to things and the difference between this iteration of kevin smith at age 53 and the one that most people met at the beginning of my career when i was say 23 24 when clerks happened is that back then i would have told you all the movies that i hate and here are the reasons why they suck and whatnot and you would never hear that from me today you'll never hear me say what's the point man life is too sure it i almost died of a heart attack six years ago and then last year i lost my fucking mind so broke my heart broke my fucking brain any minute now i can like leave this place i don't want to spend any fucking seconds going you know what sucks instead i'll tell you i i will spend hours telling you about what i love that's a better use

of my time your time that's healthy if you're if you're looking for negativity like you don't need me You can find it like on the internet for free. Well, here's the thing. When I watch a movie, so we have a horror movie group. And it's a bunch of us that watch only horror movies on Tuesday nights at my house. Are you serious? Yeah. Can I ask a question?

What is it like, like, just having friends and doing a thing? You don't shoot that or nothing? That's just like what you do for. And we are, it's so funny because we have a rose and bomb rating system. So it's three rows, two roses, one rose. And John heater is in. And so it's a heater is right down the middle. And then one bomb, two bomb three mom.

He was in, Napoleon Dynamite. Napoleon Donovan. Yes. And so... Name drop a little more. Who else is in this group? But it's funny because... I don't know what other celebrities are in this group.

I just spoke to fifth and sixth graders at my movie theater the other morning and the talk after 45 minutes devolved into, who's the most famous person you ever met? And I really like had an existential moment going like, I've never, never met anybody important like a president, but I don't know if you consider politicians important or not. And I found out what fifth and sixth graders in the role? You want to know who they wanted to, who like, have you met this one? one, because I told him, I said, look, I work with Ben Affleck, Jennifer Lopez, Matt Damon. I said, I work with both Will Smith and Chris Rock, and neither of them smack each other.

I was like, you know, I've worked with some, you know, so I felt like I had a pretty healthy list. Will Smith was that in the name they seemed most impressed by and stuff. Then they started asking me, like, have you met, have you met Jack Black? I was like, I did meet Jack Black. They were, oh, do a Lepa they want, Lippa or Lippa, Lippa? Do a Lippa. I know who you're talking about. Yes.

The one that really surprised me is, like, have you met Ice Spice? And I'm like, I think Ice Spice just happened. Like, she's happening as we speak. Like, I saw RNSNL. That's the only way I'm familiar with, with this artist. I said, but, you know, suddenly I wanted to have a discussion with a 10-year-old about, like, why would I meet Ice Spice this early in her career? And I'm sure they'd be like, look, I was just throwing names out.

Who else? Tom Brady, they wanted to know if I met? I said, no. They wanted to know if. if I met Doja Cat, Doja Cat, Beyonce. And all these were Nose. Of the ones I mentioned, yeah, those were Nose. But I did blow their fucking preteen doors off when, who do you think is the most famous person in the world to 10, 11 year old?

Oh, that's tough. You're asking me. I'm stuck in like 85. Me too. So I'd say Lex Luthor. Exactly. I don't know that answer. Um, think, think.

Oh, Taylor Swift. Bang. See? Look at it. You didn't even require like, prompting Watson. Right. You're Sherlock by herself.

You believe it? The other guy is all fucking cumberbiotch. I mean, I. So. Yeah, yeah. Wait, where were we? But that was, that was the famous person was Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift.

So they're like, what about Taylor Swift? And I was like, well, I said, years ago, I got thrown off an airplane for being too heavy, too have to fly and this was like some of these cats weren't even born when this shit happened so i was like i couldn't fly i could fly so i didn't want to because there was a bounty on my head paparazzi i saw on a paparazzi website if you can get a picture of kevin smith at an airport it was like almost 10 000 bucks double that if he's eating at the airport and shit so i was like are you serious this is true this true story so i was like i'm not going near the airport i tell the kids i said i had to find different ways to get to the gigs i do a lot of live gigs i said so i wound up

rent in a bus and it was so fun it was like being the partridge family but just one and and i said this is this would work for me and i said and one of the kids is like like john madden i was like well i guess yes i'd heard that he also had a bus i said but i bought a bus and uh like i when i was buying the bus i bought it from the state down south and uh the the man who sold to me the older gentleman was just like uh you know whose bus this is and i was like i i should i not do the voice i don't know anymore do it can you get away with a southern voice or is that considered i think you can get away i know it's a very divisive year and i don't want to add anymore to that and have people be like there he is doing the voice we're turning a corner just know that he was a southern man and a gentleman and uh so i'm

not going to do the voices so he was like uh you know who's let me do the boys you know who this this van belongs to and you know that's better can i all right let's say we're not doing him now we're just doing a sketch all right a couple southerners i'll tell you what you know who buses is who buses is oh man i'm i'm asking you but I don't know how I was asking you. But you're the one who knows the answer to who the buses. I can't answer that question because the interview is you and you telling me about this man who said,

wait, I thought we were doing a sketch. Oh, we were. I fucked it up. Oh, for a minute, I thought you bought into the performance so deeply. You fell down the rabbit hole and I was just like, oh my God, this is going to be an amazing interview. I'm going to trick fucking Michael into constantly thinking we're in a different scenario.

They said, do you know who in this bus? I said, no. He goes, Taylor Swift. And this was like back in 2008, nine. So I was like, who's that? I had no clue. And he's like, oh, she's an amazing little kid who sings and she writes her own songs. I was like, oh, this was her bus.

And he said, yeah, this was one of her four buses. I was like, why does she get four buses? Oh, she's huge tours of the country. She's got a huge act, entourage. Like one of the buses is just her merchandise and stuff like that. And so when I told the kids that, that's what they, this is awesome, right on a podcast. We're a great host. You know, I put mine on to airplane.

I don't think it was. I don't think it was, Mike. I swear to God. we heard it was not but what do you and if that's what inside of you is all about it was actually a sound effect interrupting the guess it was a sound effect for the the the retort now go ahead the i love when human shit like that happens yeah i know that's all right but i really forgot where i was in the store no so it was tells us and tell uswhip and these kids were like what can we see it and i was like oh i sold it years ago and they lost so much interest in me um

but yeah it was it was fascinating to find out what kids were like who've you met who've you met But to be fair, I do that. I'm 53. I've been in this business 30 years and I still get like, you know, somebody's like, oh, I worked with it. What do they like? Yeah, I do that. Well, look around me.

I mean, I have posters everywhere of people that I love and I would love to meet. I'm sure I'm not the first. I mean, look at all this shit. This is a great room, number one. Great house. Thank you. Number three. Oh, my God.

Who knew fucking the WB paid this well? You should see this fucking place, kids. Like, you see this room all the time. The W. Outside of here is like, gaudy wealth think of like trump's penthouse and like double that and that's what my house is gaudy no no way it's class is this total class it's very tastefully appointed yes and as you walk around you as one should in i feel in a home know the homeowner walking throughout this house is like walking

in your head and heart as you look up on the walls and stuff so thank you what i'm sure a guest has brought it up before um and i don't know the cameras go that high but my there's a michael has a framed article from people magazine jesus the top 50 bachelors and i'm still i wonder what i'd be right now probably be number 900 on no you're so i fucking bro if you're not in the top 50 you're in the top 60 but let's take take me back to this moment in time what year is this uh that is probably 2002 are you still in smalls or no yeah i just started smalls so this is like year one or two of probably and then they wanted to do an article in people and say one of eligible bachelors and i and if you look at the picture it's me drinking a glass of freaking milk i mean it's kind of embarrassing

that's not embarrassing a glass of milk sends a real message and number one that's yes he's holding milk let's tell him where you're holding the milk suggestively between your your akimbo thighs that's true it's between my legs yes it's so great we're going to have to get a picture ryan people knew what they were doing they were just like you know yeah we're saying he's as wholesome as a glass of milk but look where that milk is, drink deep, got milk friends. And probably since it was people in 2002, on the next page was an ad with some person, famous person. Yeah, I didn't do that.

No, but right next to you, it would have been perfectly. Now, in a world of press. I love how this has become his interview. And it's great. Well, yes, your fault for putting interesting things on your wall. In a world of press that you've received many. And I see your, one time, maybe, because I like I clicked on an article about you. You have lived in my algorithm forever.

So I know what you're up to. Oh, wow. You too. In case, I don't follow them, but I do follow you. I follow them since they put music on my phone and I want it. You too. No, that was a bad dad pun. But I'm a dead.

So you, with the show, which I've been on before, but via Zoom. Number one, I've met people in real life who gave me artwork posters based on the show that I was in. all the guests you had and me and jay were there as well um but in my algorithm in my news feed i i've always see articles written about the guests you have and the people and the things you talk about so you're doing well you know what you're penetrating i've said this a million maybe not penetrating like you know that picture yeah i know i know so let me ask you something what the bus let me call no so here's the thing i started out doing this for probably all the wrong reasons somebody said you have good voice you know people you'll make some money none of that was true

Except maybe I had a decent voice. Rose, the wrong reasons is like I started out doing this because I wanted to manipulate people and fucking steal their souls. No, but I thought I would make some money and it would be fun. Right. And then I realized nobody cares until I started being vulnerable and talking about my life and dysfunction and mental health. And I, but that was subconscious. I didn't, that just came out. I was just like, I'm just going to throw shit out there.

Right. And then people started to attract people and people started to, you know, gravitate towards the podcast. But, you know, you're only. good as your guest. If you have a good guest who talks about, like you, who opens up, who tells, you know, because people don't want to hear celebrity talk per se. They want to hear, they kind of want to get behind the curtain like a fly on the wall. And like, I almost feel like I'm Chris Farley in those interviews on SNL where he goes, oh, Paul McCartney, you're awesome. Oh, what was it like being a beetle? You know, it's sort of like me. Remember that time?

Yeah, remember that time? That was awesome. Yeah. I mean, nobody funny than him. But let me get into you real quick because I love us get in your you're getting inside of I'm going to get inside you but you know as the brand says but you talk about like you couldn't get you got kicked off a plane and you're yeah and we won't talk about humiliating trauma the weight stuff but it looks so great now you look like you're happy you're healthy still never getting in the top 50 bachelor's primarily because I've been married for 25 years but nobody's asked you to hold milk between my fucking spread spread thighs I'll tell you that much you get mad that people uh that you my friends say they see you hike every day

constantly doing it and do you get mad that all of a sudden ozempic comes out and now everyone's on a guy Ozempic eyes and losing all this weight What I get mad is apparently I'm being spied on by your fucking friends and they report it back to you like we're fucking dating and shit or that we broke up and fucking like

you know what he's up to now. Suck heaven Smith again He's there every day. No what I get mad about is I got a fucking hike running at all which I like I started doing that back after the heart attack and and you know it was beneficial but I hate exercise you know some people I hate it I love fucking getting out there and I fucking like work it out and I like I sweat and I think and blah blah blah like I'd much rather

just stay home why do you hate it I don't like physical exertion like I don't like getting sweaty I don't like your heart rate heart rate going up yeah and like I've spoken about for years and most people like we didn't want to hear it but like I'm the guy I lay down and get fucked I'm not a fucker like my wife rides me I'm I've you know for years since I was the larger the two of us utter bottom you know and it's up to her back in the day when i was having to manage to fucking balance and stay on top and stuff she doesn't ever say switch god bless her no 25 years she's every once in a while she's like it'd be nice if you got in top i was like yeah it'd be nice but be nice but i ain't going to be broke don't fix it this is the way it works and here we go um so yeah

i i mean not only i'm a bottom in fucking bed but i'm like total bottom in life as well i do tend to to top from the bottom. But I'm such a people pleaser. There's such a codependent fucker that it's like you can get away with so much with me. It's shocking to me that I haven't been scammed more or taken more advantage of. I have not, I think, only because I don't really spend a lot of time out in the world. I'm on a stage or I'm making a thing or I'm at home or something like that. But I'm so like fucking gullible and such like a bleeding.

fucking heart at all times that I'm pretty easy target. Yeah. So this is, is that my camera? Are you looking for money, kids? Do you want to build a one-time millionaire

out of whatever he has left from his Jane, Silent Bob, dynasty, and fortune? How many? Play me like a fiddle. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money, period.

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and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-A. n c e dot com slash inside of you free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash inside of you how many times have you thought in your lifetime of quitting about of quitting the business of just general i was like quitting directing 489,000 no but i know you've quit in the business yeah there's one point where i was talking about retiring after red state because I saw Steven Soderberg talking about retiring. I was like, that's a fucking possibility?

Like, nobody ever said that. Like, oh, my God, yeah, I guess you could just like stop and be like, that's something that I used to do. So I became kind of enamored of that idea. And did retire. I took three years off, essentially. I thought I was just like done. But then doing a podcast with Scott Mosier, my friend,

who I did a podcast with and he produced the movies and stuff. We did an episode called The Walverson, the Carpenter, episode 250. And that was where Tusk came from. And so then I was like, oh, I'm going to write this as a podcast, write this podcast as a script. And then suddenly I was like, you know, nobody's going to make this but me. I guess I'm back.

And so I came back to Tusk had such a blast doing it that I was like, well, maybe this is how you survive in this business. Just make the shit you want to make. And that means like, you know, I don't have the luxury of just telling the world. I want to do this. And the world's like, okay, generally it means that you have to modify your expectations. It's the best piece of advice I can give anybody in this life, let alone young creatives, is modify your exposition.

Nothing wrong with that. You know, a lot of people in this business are like, you can't compromise. You got a vision. As a director, I'm supposed to talk about my vision and how, like, you know, we have to pursue that to the ends. It means, justify the ends and telling the story. I don't fucking subscribe to that. I don't stretch of the imagination. I've, you know, I'm easy to work with because.

I know how to be pliable. Like, if somebody's giving you money to make a movie, you can't be like, hey, fuck you, man. I got my story to tell. I got my vision. You got to hear them out. If it works, you adapt that into what you're doing. If you can't, you know, and you make your case and, you know, hope that maybe you could accommodate somewhere down the line.

You know, and a lot of folks in my line of work would be like, you can't ever fucking compromise. Once you got the money, fuck them all. I don't feel that way, man. Especially because, like, my job is so fucking goofy, which is if I was a, you know, if I could self-express in another way, it'd be so much cheaper. Like if I was a singer, I'd open up my mouth and you'd hear what I was singing, you'd know how I felt.

If I was a painter, I'd take that blank canvas, throw some color on it, and there would be my self-expression. But I chose directing, which is like the dumbest form of self-expression, where you say things like, I need to self-express, give me $25 million in Ben Affleck, or I can't do the job. So you find different ways to kind of, you know, ameliorate over time. you find ways to better a little bit yes truly ultimately it does yes and so you it's uh you know some people hear this and they're like oh yeah you can't you can't compromise you can't bend if you

bet and that's when they get you it's not true at all man it's not about bending it's not about compromise it's about modifying expectations case in point i'm married to a beautiful woman 25 years now and shit and i guarantee you when she was in fucking high school in college banging way fucking better looking dudes than me she was not going like man i I hope I marry a fucking dude who wears hockey jerseys and weighs 330 fucking pounds one day. But we met. She fell in love with me.

And she was like, you know what? Not what I was looking for, but I will modify my expectations. Wow. And because of that, we've been together about 25 years. Thank you. Well, let me ask you this. Are you, if you look at your career, are you able to step back now and go, I am proud of everything I've done?

Yeah. I'm proud that I did all this. And when you say not having no expectations, do you go into things thinking, I'm not thinking about how successful it is. I'm thinking about I want to do this. I want to tell a story. As long as I can justify its existence and cost, then I'll feel okay because it's a weird job where you ask people for money so you can tell us a made up story. So I, you know, I learned early on. I was raised Catholic, so I carry a fucking huge cross. And when it comes to like borrowing money to make a movie, that cross like don't go away. I've never reached a point

where I'm like, well, that's just how we do it in this business. It's fucking millions of dollars. Like, that's what's nuts, man. It's like two things I always say, like, after I've accomplished a thing, good or bad, whether it's been successful, rather, or unsuccessful. But these words tend to be more effective when something's been unsuccessful. First thing I say is, oh, you wanted this. Like, you wanted this so bad that you willed this into existence.

you convinced people to spend millions of dollars to tell your story. You can't back off it now just because people didn't receive it the way you want. That wasn't part of the deal. You wanted to make the fucking thing. You wanted this, stand by it. And then the other thing I always say is, what was the alternative? Like if I didn't do it, what was the alternative? I'm a person who knows how to do the thing, has done the thing professionally many times and whatnot,

and knows exactly how to get it accomplished. And if I don't do it, it lives in me like some form of cancer. Yeah. Like it just eats at you knowing like, oh my God, I could have and I didn't and whatnot. Wasted opportunity. That's where regret is. Some people have asked me, you regret any of the movies you made. No, I regret not the movies I made, but the movies I was too scared to make or the movies that I didn't do.

What movie were you too scared to make? That you can say. For a while, like Red State, man. Red State, which was a flick I made years ago, then I took up to Sundance and then we distributed it like i i was like i'm going to take this movie out on tour and it kind of created the model by which like i've lived since then um make a flick and then take it out on the road and play it like a theatrical performance you know to like 15002 000 cedars and that becomes like a concert it's less a movie and more like a concert experience so i've like ways to kind

of like you know make sure that like whatever's being put out is going to come back because tough to live with like oh my god i borrowed i got them to give me three million dollars and fucking like it just and it was yoga hosers fuck like you know that i carry that shit like herpes and whatnot um nobody remembers the failure of a a movie a book or anything like the creator of that material it doesn't matter what happens to it over time case and point marats came out in 1995 died a horrible fucking death cost five million to make made two million at the box office every critic shit in its mouth and whatnot it was the joke movie of mine it was my second movie it solidified the idea of people like that movie of a sophomore slump 10 years after that movie died

fucking because people had seen it on cable and fucking VHS and DVD like people didn't see the movie or have the same experience with the movie I did people be like come up to me and say oh I love mallrats and my go-to joke is always like great where were you when it happened we could have used your help and I like what do you mean and I was like well that movie flopped when it came out like not i can't be true i own it on DVD and i'm like well those two things don't necessarily equate to the same thing yeah and then you realize nobody remembers except the filmmaker i'm the only one that remembers like we made 2.1 million that's not what people remember what people remember is like oh i watched it with my boys when i was a kid i watched on my first

date uh with a woman who i eventually married shit like that that makes you feel good oh that makes me feel good so to answer the question you put forward first yeah i look back at the career Kevin Smith and like I don't always talk about them as in the Royal or whatever to fuck. But to talk about the career of the guy that I play from time to time. Well, I mean, it's legendary. What you did, no one was doing. That, well, you're very common. I mean, Slacker gave you the idea.

You watched Richard Linkletter Slacker. Yeah, yeah. And you were like, can't see it. It can't be it unless you see it. And I saw it. Yeah. Richard Linklater doing a thing that seemed like I could get close to that. And that was it.

that the idea happened and you did what i always wonder i mean but i will say this legendary is very kind but i don't think it's legendary for the same reason that you think it's legendary i think what's going to be legendary for me about my career is no one is ever going to bother to try to duplicate it like nobody's ever going to be like well i'm going to do what kevin smith i'm going to take out all my money not it's not that it's just the career spans 30 years and starts with like this Cinderella story of a movie like a punk rock movie that just captured imaginations at the right time said the right thing at the right time if I made it a year before a year later nothing fucking happens and then going like oh I'm going to write comic books

oh I'm going to start doing podcasting oh I'm going to fucking talk to the audience engaged the audience early on these are all things that like I was doing when everyone else was going like why would you waste time on the internet and stuff like that It's always finding a different way to engage with the audience beyond the obvious and beyond how we started the conversation, i.e. me being a filmmaker. Because as a filmmaker, I get judged against other filmmakers. If I'm a director, they go like, well, you're no Martin Scorsese. But I became Kevin Smith professionally at that point.

Who are they're going to hold me against? Like, well, you're no, you are him. You know what I'm saying? So some people are like, the artist should disappear and the work should speak for itself. And I agree with that on some levels, but I also feel you get to a place as an artist, if you're lucky enough, like where I've had three decades of this fucking shit, where you could just start playing variations now. Like the thing you came to accomplish, you did. So you're like, all right, well, let me just see if I can try this now, if I could try this. And somewhere along the way, it became less important for me to be identified as one thing, director Kevin Smith, which, oh my God, I wanted that more than anything else when I was a kid.

but suddenly it became more important to be identified as like oh that that's that Kevin smith like he does these things and the further the you know i went and the longer the tail got the more interesting and weird and stupid the career got and you know i remember this is like so crazy man but like this means the world's man i've never met the guy but like we're talking a fucking a decade or more ago erin ecart the actor was on a podcast it was after like dark night and he said he was talking about something and then I don't know where he goes like Kevin Smith he just does whatever he wants like that's the career I want and I was like is that what it looks like like is that how it's perceived that I just do whatever I want I was like fuck and then

I thought about it and I was like Aaron Eckart's right like I do just kind of do whatever I want it is kind of an ideal career now it's I've never been one of the top 50 bachelors and damn I will never be considered one of the top 50 directors and stuff in terms of pure craft but i've notched a place in cinema history because of clerks being just a magic trick clerks is barely a movie it is you know i'm when fuck motherfuckers out a party's like come here and they pull a quarter from behind your you're like that's fucked up that's all clerks is it's the little ear magic trick and people go oh my god that's cool you can do it forever don't fucking matter man like don't matter if people have seen you do the trick

before right you whip it out they're like oh i like that fucking trick and for years i was like like what is it like why do people like the movies black and white is because like it's jersey what is and then it took me about 20 years and of you know this is 30th anniversary this year the 30th anniversary of clerks congrats that's amazing jane sol and pop i think what it comes down to is this simple that movie is about what what it's like to have a shitty job and literally everybody uh except people who inherit have a shitty job sooner or later so even if you've never worked at a convenience store you can be like oh i remember being at this job and it was like that because me and my friend would sit around and talk anything to fucking not think about what you're doing and

stuff because of that the journey begins in such a way that i get to go on off a bunch of different tangents and whatnot so when i look back periodically when i stopped and see how long the tails become i am satisfied but not enough to stop you know because what would i do just sit around and be like well that was fun you know i did it yeah i'm done you never what do you think about I have a problem with rotten tomatoes. The vegetable itself? Just put it in the crisper. No, no.

There are simple hacks. I do have a crisper. To these fucking problems, Michael. No, these, I don't, I know you got a crisper. I came through his kitchen kids. Fucking, who knew, who knew that playing Lex Luthor would pay this well? Now I want to see Gene Hackman's place, John Cryer's place. None will be as cool.

Fucking nickel. And friendly and comfortable. You know what? Not even joking. 100% he's right. Like, fucking, oh. It's me. This is, I'm telling you, it's like being in your big brain, your big heart.

But more importantly, for a person like myself, eye candy. Like, it's a museum. Yeah. And you're the me in question. I appreciate that. Not many people will say that. But what do you think of rotten tomatoes? Because every time I look at a movie and it says 90% and I go, oh, wow.

And I go and it's not good at all. Every, I'm talking 90% of the movies we watch on Tuesday nights that have 90%. I could sit here and start spitting out names. and I won't, but I'm like, I'm wasting all this money watching these movies that are not 90% that are not 95. And I don't, I think there's something wrong with the system. Generally, easy fix for that. The fuck you go on a website for and listen to strangers anyway. Like, you know what you want to see. You see a title. You see a trailer. You know whether you want to see it or not. Don't read anybody else's opinion. What does that matter? That's just noise. But don't you think that

somebody's getting paid by studios? Yeah, Fox owns Rotten Tomatoes, if I remember correctly. They bought years and years ago so something's in the water i don't think it's i don't think they fuck with the algorithm i think the critical community likes but likes well maybe the critical community needs to wake up you see i look get new critics i got a movie coming out in a couple months let me tell you something i have nothing but just admiration just slobbering respect adoration for the critical community what do you think about movies right now that you know most of the times they just go right to streamers these big movies do you does it upset you do you want more movies in the theaters or do you think there's just there's a bigger audience and and so be it nothing about

entertainment really upsets me um particularly like how movies are consumed i i i started as an independent filmmaker i'm still an independent filmmaker um i know how difficult it is to get any movie made um now there are different avenues by which to distribute a movie and have your work scene far more than when I first entered the business. So there are more tools to be able to make films as well. Films like clerks and my story helped, you know, launch a bunch of ships where people like, well, if this counts as a movie, I want to make a movie too. So, you know, with that comes more people. When I first started filmmaking, there used to be like one of these specious little factoids it was like there are more kids in law school than there are lawyers in the world and then

it switched to there are more kids in film school than there are filmmakers in the world or something like that now there are more places to carry all that product and so you'd imagine like oh my god everyone's going to find a home but it's not necessarily the case in fact it's become more competitive because the business is constricting because of the streaming model where suddenly the audience is like you know we lived through a fucking traumatic once in a hopefully once in a hundred year pandemic and suddenly you know we were happy to be able to watch something um on tv and then we realized the comfort of like well if i spend a little bit more money you know i can watch any movie i want on a big tv in my house on my couch i don't have to be in

public or anything like that and slowly people have kind of moved away from the mass cinema going experience i discovered that um by buying a movie theater by owning a movie theater for the last year and a half like you know avatar two and arguably one of the biggest movies that opened in the last two years and shit you know when it opened it had some sort of ridiculous like 200 300 400 million dollar number on its way to four billion or whatever opening friday night at smod castle cinemas 12 tickets um creed three huge movie opening friday night six tickets seven but one of them picked the wrong movie and asked for a refund uh the The opening of the nun, two, one creepy person sitting by themselves on Friday night watching the movie.

Because they're watching. Because film exhibitions in the toilet. But I mean, I like the theatrical window. I like to go. Sure. But you know what? Do you, looking around here, are you the type of individual that also likes vinyl? I have vinyl.

Some people are like, hey, man, vinyl, I swear by it and shit. Cinema is going to become vinyl, which is like, you know, it's never going away. But you keep looking at what's happening. to multiplexes around the country they're closing their 300 seat venues their 200 seed venues and they're putting in those like you know couch chairs with the feet that go up and stuff like that so suddenly you'll deliver your food to you they'll bring food right to you but you're going from like the mass experience of like 250 300 people in a theater to like 50 will sell this theater out because the ticket price has gone up and hopefully we're going to sell you food

been booze as well um that model seems completely fucking untenable um and you know i think that's why amc big companies like that you know they they're sweating and they're going like this up and down you know the business still hasn't completely righted itself post pandemic yes barbenheimer was great for things and whatnot but there's not a barbenheimer every week and and i don't think some of those cats are ever coming back for the theatrical experience. Or maybe they'll come back once in a blue moon for something big. I think it's going to probably start being like Broadway. Broadway used to be everything, right? And then now it's like $150, $200 a ticket for the rarefied few who love it. But that's not mass consumption at this point.

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doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. How do you feel when people are saying that the superhero, the market's oversaturated TV and movies, it's just all superheroes, you know, back when we were younger, it's like every year you're waiting for the big movie to come out now it's every weekend or it's you know it's do you think that's real i think uh with i think like in battle star galactica that show like this is all happened before

it will all happen again uh in the 70s there's a motion picture called star wars that like kicked open the doors for sci-fi movies left and right and then at a certain point people like nobody wants to watch this sci-fi stuff anymore and they thinned out and kind of things went back to normal um i've enjoyed the run-up of comic book movies as a big comic book fan and stuff as an enthusiast what's your favorite of all of them probably well i i think iron man is a perfect film i i love that i love end game as well and i think it's perfect but you need a lot of movies for end game to make sense iron man you can go in cold and it's it's it's star wars wonderful yeah um so i've loved this period i'm shocked it's gone on as long as it has

i don't think it's ever going to disappear i think we'll comic book movies like herpes will be with us always another herpes two in one conversation you watch the third one's gonna be mad it's gonna be right on your look um great the uh but i think um you know people are like we get it you know look superhero stories are perfect for the movies because it's three-act structure and you got a hero and there's a villain and shit and that's what movies are about but you know i i think they're going to have to be more selective in in what they put out do you like three-hour movies

When every movie's two and a half, three hours, do you like that? Don't you miss it? I like any three-hour movie that keeps my attention for three hours. But I mean, you know, that's a high bar. That's hard. Even Oppenheimer, I was a little. Oppenheimer, you know. Oppenheimer. Look, it won the Oscar.

Let's all agree that it was the best picture of the year. I agree. My nickname for it, homework, the movie. You know, it was very, it's very smart. It was very educational. Yes. But, you know, I, you know, I'm, God, I hate saying. anything because then the internet ripshire no an asshole but like i i thought that was incredibly

well made and he's a genius and whatnot but like you know i think my favorite movie of the year was godzilla minus i still have to see it minus one or zero minus one minus one i'm like my favorite movie the year is movie how can you be minus zero that's what i that's i thought it was meant to be profound yeah minus zero is that an integer i didn't know i was going to have to do math to go see fucking Godzilla, but I also didn't know that they would make a Godzilla movie so fucking beautiful. That's what I heard. That I was like, get the fuck out of the way. My whole life I've been watching these movies. And I'm always like, I hate the human story, man. I wish it would just be like 20 minutes of monsters fighting each other. This is the first time I was like,

you know what? Move, Lizard. This is compelling what's going on in the foreground with the human characters. Wow. It's worth seeing. All right. I'm going to see it. Yeah, it's pretty much. You have a lot of projects in production. Whenever I look at your IMDB, there's always a script in production, pre-production this what which ones are going to get made if not all of them what a good question which ones are on the fast track let's see four 30 430 movie is done uh today i just had an mpa a appeals hearing for the rating they gave us an r rating on a movie that i i intended to be pg 13 my argument for the uh for the appeals was was very much that i was like kids there's three things i know how to do in this world, Matt. I can play foosball really well. I know how to walk two German

chevers on a tandem leash, and I know how to make an R-rated movie. I said, so I know not how to make an R-rated movie as well. That's why I intended to make a PG-13 movie with this. The fact that you guys made it R means that this sweet little pay-on to youth, about 16-year-olds in 1986 who hopped from one theater or to another, who, yes, make a lot of sex jokes, but no more than any other teen movie, is the equivalent to the human centipede. And for those in the audience who don't know what the human centipede is, as this is a movie

where a bunch of people get so nasty mouth and shit all the way down. So how on earth are these two movies in the same category whatsoever? R. It was R. And deservedly so. But we don't even say, you know, you get away with the use of one fuck

in a PG-13 movie. We didn't say fuck once. There's no nudity. There's no sex whatsoever. They just said, yeah, but it was just like a lot of a lot of innuendos but i was like yeah of course i was like but there's no more innuendo than it's in the than in the average like fucking eight o'clock sitcom and they're like well it was just like pervasive i was like great then you write that pervasive innuendo

but i don't see and they were kind of admitting too they're like well yeah there's soft ours there's hard hours and you're right we had a hard time coming up with the rating on this and they were also not 100 percent committed to who are these people that do that so there's the ratings board the MPA. Does anybody know who they are? Yeah. And it's not, they were lovely. They weren't like fucking antagonistic or anything. They just got a job and shit. And their job is to like, you know, hey man, parents get mad about sex. That's and but my thing going into it was like, look, I've been through this process four times before. This is my fifth time doing this, my fifth rodeo.

Clerks, they gave us an NC17. I argued it down to an R without having to make a cut. Jersey Girl fucking befuddingly, befuddlingly, they gave us an R. And I argued that down to a PG-13. team without making a cut. Zach and Mary McApornow that gave us an NC17. I argued that up down to an R without making a cut. And then yoga hosers, they gave us an R. And when I announced that I was going to appeal it, they gave me a PG-13 because I think they were like, we don't want to fucking hear them again.

Just give them this. I'm writing. So that was the last time I did it was back then in maybe 2016 or something like that. This movie I designed completely as a PG-13. And using Jersey Girl, which we received a PG-13 for as a model, as to like, this is the line you can't go past this and still they couldn't like you know i was like look i know we're never going to figure this out on this phone call but what what you're telling me is like a movie like this can be rated the same as a movie like human centipy perhaps the system is faulty or at this

point let's be honest unnecessary yes in a world where like any child who you're trying to protect can literally pick up their phone and access porn hub why are you talking about sexual innuendo who are we protecting you know there's one guy who was just like well like like I'll be honest with you. I have a 16-year-old daughter, and it'd be weird to sit next to her and hear the boys talk about jerking off in the movie. And I was like, well, not for me.

But, you know, that's a matter of taste. So they're not like horrible people, but like they got a job to do and shit. It bums you out, though. It is because it's just like, even they were like, it's not the movie you wanted, you were making. No, I made the exact movie I wanted to. No, I just don't think it was an R.

And so my point to them is like, I've had a career of making R-rated movies, right so people hear oh Kevin Smith made an R-rated movie they think they pretty much know what to expect they're going to come into this movie nobody fucking curses beyond saying the word shit or asshole nobody's naked

there's no fucking sex there's no violence people are going to be like befuddled you're setting them up for a movie that doesn't exist because you don't have a PG-16 rating or something like that but in a world where it's arbitrary like why not lean toward the PG-13 that we were going for

so it was 12 people and 7 to 5 voted to to uphold the R. So I didn't flip this one. But I was very surprised and not angry that I was won away. Won away, I would have split the vote and stuff. Go back, get a revote. Yeah, I'm all right.

Like, I thought about it. I didn't, you know, I don't believe in relitigating. You know, it's like they taught us one when I was in the nut house, man. I'm not supposed to say that, but that's what we called it there. You know, the past is where we spend an in an order. an amount of our time. We're always in the past. We're always in the future. Very few of us spend time in the present, right? So the past is where depression lies because that's where you relitigate everything. Why did I say that? Why did that happen to me? Why did we get in that argument? What the

fuck was wrong? Why did I drink? Why did I do this? Anxiety is the future. Anxiety is the future, man. When you think about like what's going to happen? What if I don't get that job? What if I don't make more money? You cannot control either of these places. This is what you control the here and now. You don't even necessarily control that. But that's the only place that you can maybe exert some minor degree of like I got this. Like if you're okay in the moment, you're okay. Don't think about, yeah, but what about when I wasn't okay? That happened.

You can't change that. Yeah, but what happened in the future? I'm not going to be. Who knows? You can't write the fucking future. You don't know it. So for all you know, future is going to work out. So don't fret about that.

Don't live up there, man. Live right here. We spend so much time in either direction. we don't we lose this yeah and then fucking you know i'm 53 the older one gets the more one you know starts being like oh shit why didn't i or oh fuck and you start figuring out what's important and shit so be in the moment kids what what was your what was your biggest fear when you were younger maybe as an aspiring filmmaker and what's your biggest fear now how they changed my biggest fear my entire life i think was being irrelevant you know that's why i do what i do right it's like look

at me. It's a version of bringing home a good paper and your mom putting it up on the fridge with a magnet or being in the local paper for something ridiculous and your mom clipping it out and putting it up on the fridge with the magnet. Clearly, these things happen to me. Desperate to be relevant, I think most people in this business are. They want to be heard. When you're an entertainer, when you're an artist, when you're one of these artsy-fartsy types like us, you have this mindset of like, you know, I got this thought and people really should hear it. You know, most people don't think that way. Normal people don't think that way. Even in the age of the prolific podcast, most people don't really think that their thoughts are worth sharing with others.

But people in our world do. We wake up every morning and go like, people have to know what's here and what's here. I got to share this and stuff. So I realize, you know, I have to do it for 30 years. Like, of course, there are reasons the journey started. A young man who loved moving. movies who saw Slacker and was like, oh, fuck, maybe I could do this as well. But what was behind that? Never mind seeing Slacker and going, I want to try that as well. What was behind all that? And what's behind all that is fear of being forgotten, fear of being irrelevant,

fear of not even being known in the first place. Never mind being a has been, being a never was. Somebody who, you know, life just. But you already are relevant. Yeah, but that's what got me here. But now that I am, it's a drug. You think I'm going to put that down? Like, oh, I had relevancy once.

It was nice. It's like chakobotsy, man. You can pop a new bottle and start drinking as an old 70s. But relevant for what reason? Because there's a void in me, as I'm sure there are in many of us in this field. Right here. That needs filling and can't be filled by people who have something real to offer. For example, I have a wife.

She's amazing. I have a mother. She's amazing. I've got friends. Dogs amazing. And they all fill something. And yet still there's this little guff. Why do we have this emptiness?

Well, I was just talking about it with Ryan here. I was talking about it with Bill. It's like I feel like I'm successful. I'm doing good things. I'm helping people. I'm writing. All these things. And I go, I still feel like I'm in a rut.

Cursed with ambition. Yeah, and it drains you. It's like, I just want to be free. Because there is, you know, free. Yeah, fucking we'll never be free. Because we've tasted the good life. Like, you know, I've walked through your fucking castle.

Oh, it's not a castle, for God's sake, it's 3,400 square feet. You're not going to, you can't be free. And I'm not, this ain't the things you own wind up owning you, but it's not, that's not, it's not the chotchkes and shit. It's like you got yourself to a place in life solely based on something that's almost intangible. You know, motherfucker invents a widget and makes a billion dollars. You're like, all right, I guess it makes sense. You fucking have all this because of some indefinable, unquantifiable

opinion called talent because somebody's like, I think you're fucking talented and you're more importantly, you start the journey by being like, I think I'm fucking talented. Somebody agrees.

And it's not something like you could point to. It's elusive. It's, you know, they always say like, can't put my finger on it, but they just got that something. There's a reason that that fucking

trying to show that. You still want to... For me personally? Yeah. Why would What would life be like if I had to let that go? I haven't had to let that go for 30 years. And I suspect for as long as you've been doing your thing, you have not had to let it go.

What if that was severed from us? I don't know about you, but I don't know how upright I can stand in the winds that would blow at that point because I'm used to being beloved by strangers. Which means I also like have to take, you know, strangers hate from time to time. I don't care how much hate I've received online, and I never get it in the real life, in the real world and shit. The amount of affection, deep abiding affection, and I would go so far as to call it love from utter strangers that I feel on a daily basis, never mind going online to social media, if I just step outside my house and go to a public place invariably, as I'm sure you're

well aware in your life, there's going to be some people who are going to be like, you know, who that happens to in the real world fucking nobody i'm from the east coast they don't look at you and smile and point they if they look at you this usually follows if they look at you at all strangers don't make fucking eye contact we're discouraged from that sort of thing but i live in a world where i leave the house and someone may stop me and go like oh my god can i just tell you how much i love what you do and then tell me like an insanely moving story about how they tried to kill themselves but didn't because of some goofy-ass movie I made. Oh, my God.

To let that go, to let any of that, but all of it, it's the Gestalt. It's like, right. It's like having a name like Kevin Smith and making something with it. You know what I'm saying? Like, that's a fucking standard-ass, lame name and shit. But to be able to, like, to have made it like a Rosenbaum. It pops, man. Rosembaum.

Multiple salomic. You know, there's a promise in. Michael Rosenbaum. It's angelic at first. And then it gets real Jewish. And so you got both. You got surf and turf right there. Surf and turf.

And then the very... Kevin Smith says like, you know, here's your driver instructor. Kevin Smith. Or like Kevin Smith, please come up to aisle one, please. Kevin, one of the most universally loathed names on the planet, apparently. So to be able to have taken Kevin Smith and turn it into something that has currency with some people. That'd be tough to let go But

One day I will I have to There's no You don't get to hold on to Well maybe you do if you die Maybe I'll die on a movie set I want to go out like Robert Allman No

Yes, motherfucker one fucker went up Toes up on a movie set He was making a movie And he was in his 80s Yes Oh good And he smokes weed all the time Like Robert by all fucking reports

Robert Alman Very happy individual And died doing what he loved Come on in his 80s Yeah Well, you're right. You and me, we got a fucking, like, we still have work to do this shit.

We have work to do. Yes, because we got, we're cursed with. Is there something you've always wanted to do that you just haven't been able to do? Is there some movie out there? Is there some script? Is there some story? No, but not a movie, not a story. But there's a thing I've been, I've not been able to do.

I don't think I'll ever be able to do it. And it was not a goal coming in, but. And it's also predicated on old data. I always wanted to make a movie that made $100 million. Because when I was a kid, that was fucking huge. But when I got into film, like, you know, I wanted to make indie film. Slacker is not a movie made $100 million. So that was not a model for me.

But when Pulp Fiction made $100 million, and that came out the same, we were trailered on Pulp Fiction, man. So when you went to see Pulp Fiction in one of those thousand screens that they were crazy enough to open it on, Clerks was the fucking trailer that was attached to it. When that movie made $100 million, I was like, maybe maybe there is a slim path by which one of these things I do rings that bell and when I was a kid it was never a drive it was just always something in the back the older I get the less it matters to me and stuff like that and honestly I don't even know if it's possible the way the business is structured and based on the shit I make but it was never enough to make a movie that was like well give me a script this will make a hundred million dollars it had to very specifically be one of my stupid ideas so never that bell. I'm still here. Maybe it's possible. I doubt it. And if I die and it doesn't happen,

I'm not going to be like, what was the point? I'll be like, it all worked out. But that still be nice. You got to have a dream. The problem is like my curve is ruined because I've had dreams and they've all come true. I whimsy and then I try to bring it to life. It sounds very twee and fucking Wes Anderson, but it's true. I spend my life chasing whimsy. My father used to wake up and be like, what do I have to do today? I wake up and I'm like, what do I want to do today? And I dream about a thing

and then it's my job to make that thing happen in the real world. And he hated his job. He was a postal worker. He hated it. And you don't want to come home every day going, I hate my job.

As long as you're doing something you love, you're doing something right. Yes. How much, look, this, God, this flies by. You're so good. It's, it's the host.

I'm talking to my friend, Bill wrote this hilarious, it's not hilarious, but it's a scary. movie it's got some comedy in it but it's you know and it's like he comes so close to making this thing and then he needs a name then we need no that name's not going to do and it's just it's this cyclical thing and now of course it's become harder because the directors if you're a white director i mean not to say it's but it's it's it's a little hard it's harder right now how to young

filmmakers actually because they get you could sit there and say shoot it on an iPhone you could do this and you could do this and it's it's easier said than done but i guess what would what would the answer be maybe there maybe it's more ambiguous maybe what is the aim the aim uh tell a story to tell a story great then yeah you've got you got a fucking studio right there next to your hip oh yeah as you said you were like going shoot it on an iPhone yeah shoot it on an iPhone motherfucker just make it yeah doesn't matter was in a world here this is the sad fucking truth and i say it everywhere so this is not revelatory no help is coming nobody wants to help you nobody's coming to help you i've learned that i've learned that

everyone's in it for themselves more or less and like sometimes you're lucky to find people who are like hey i got some time for you but like no help is ever coming i get people come up to me is one thing that always rubs me the wrong way where they're like um hey man help me do my thing and i was like uh i can't and they're like you i am where you were once and someone helped you you got to help me and you know i always my i bristle at that because i didn't get help like you know my my mom and dad helped me and if you got parents then fucking you know you had the help i had and stuff i didn't ask somebody for money i put that money on credit cards that weren't even fucking mine and shit and prayed to god i was going to be held accountable for that money either fucking way and

stuff but this kind of like hey you were where i was once i was like no because i literally never went up to somebody and was like hey you were where i you know what i'm saying i was like I'm just going to do it because I didn't believe in myself. I'm still to this day. I really like get embarrassed when I try to engage people in like the work I'm doing because I'm like, it's Kevin Smith movie, but like we'll have fun doing it and shit like that. I hate bugging people.

And so that's always been a part of my matrix. So anyway, aren't it? No, that's true. Make the fucking thing by hook and by crook. Because that way and make it for, for you. A lot of people are like, I'm going to make this thing and it's going to sell. But some need a budget. Some need a budget. Well, then don't make that one and figure out how to make it for less. You're talking to, you know, modify your expectations. Yes. Yes. Unfortunately, those of us in the arts have this level of expectation of like, well, somebody's going to be money to make pretend. And it's like, that's, think about that. Think about how amazing that concept is. Yeah, it's not shocking that everybody doesn't fucking bump into somebody who's like, here's a bunch of money. Go do your thing. It's fucking, what are the odds that it happens, like ever, let alone as much as it does happen.

But if you have a thing that's like, yeah, but I need millions to do this. I'm like, great, put it on a shelf until you get that millions and make something that's cheaper. But make a thing for momentum. Because if you have something to show, that's better than just like, I got the script. Here, nobody likes to read scripts. Do you like to read scripts? Hate it. Everyone hates reading scripts.

Hate it. So if you're out there and you're like, but I got a great script, you know, that may be the case. But guess what? Nobody likes to read fucking scripts. You know, it's much easier for people to do, watch something when it's done. Also shows people that you've got the wherewithal and the drive to make a thing. You know, not just like, well, I wrote words, now what? It's like, all right, go shoot the fucking thing.

And if people are like, well, I can't afford that. And it's like, well, neither could I, man. When I was a kid, my parent, I come from a lower, lower, lower, lower, lower middle class family. And my mom would never let us say poor, right? But we were fucking poor. So I got credit cards. when they were predatory lending to kids going to like junior college like in 1988 89 90 as you walked on to the campus of brookdale community college it's fucking eight to 10

tables of people with like little stuffed animals thermuses and shit like that all trying to jam a credit card in your hand fill out this application you get this me and my friend brian johnson got into a contest when we were at brookdale was like let's see who get more credit cards And so we would apply like all the time and shit and I had NED because I worked at RST Video, the video store in the movie and so I would write in 1990, 91 and 92 that I was the manager of RST video and I made $50,000 a year, which would be a ridiculous salary at that point So invariably the credit card card company calls to check and I'm the only person working at the store So I would answer and be like RST video like we're doing a credit check on Kevin Smith. I was like oh, that's my manager. I paying $50,000 a year like okay, thank you And I'd get a credit card.

So I had a bunch of credit cards sitting in a drawer and I never touch him because my mom and dad were like plastic is the devil, cash only and stuff. So I beat Brian in the contest, but I didn't use them for anything. And then, you know, I'd heard an interview that Robert Townsend had done. He made a movie called The Hollywood Shuffle and wonderful comedy. And he had financed it himself and he used credit cards partially to do it. And I was like, you can do that sort of thing? And I realized, like, you can go into a place like Speer Corp, which was a company in New York, where we rented the camera equipment from, where we rented the Steenbeck from the editing, six-plate editing deck.

They would only take cash. Most other places, you could use a credit card. So I actually had to borrow my parents' own, like their life savings was three grand. And I needed three grand to rent the equipment because we couldn't use a credit card for that. my parents were like you know what he didn't go to college he dropped out this he'll do this and then he'll be a waiter one day and thank god they were able to do that um that was everything though like literally not them going like we're okay that was like their bill money and shit like that it was a pretty cool move power move and it worked out in my behalf so you still i could see get a little

emotional thinking about it oh my god you know my parents they they did the it may not have been for the storybook reason of like we believe in you tiger you know like you know like Like, I come from a generation where, like, your parents are like, see that mountain? Never climb it. You'll fucking fall. Let somebody better than you do it and shit like that. So it's not a romantic story of like a, you know, like I tell my kid from the moment she was fucking able to put thoughts together.

Like, you can do anything you want, man. Anything you want in this world except fly without a jetpack. Other than that, fucking sky's the limit for you and stuff. They didn't say that to us when we were kids. And so even though my father took me to the movies every week, took me out of school at half day on a Wednesday to go see a matinee because it was like a dollar 50 and shit like that never once my father turned to me and be like you could do this you should try this one day but when the moment came when somebody else inspired me i saw slacker richard linclair slacker and i

put it together there was no internet i started reading everything i could and figuring i think i can make one of these independent gorilla films or whatever to fuck my parents you know when i turned to them and i was just like i can't rent the i never wanted to bother you about this and and but I can't rent the equipment on these credit cards. Like, I need $1,000 cash. And it will be three by the time this is all over. My parents were like, and waited heavily and then fucking gave it to me. Made all the difference, man.

Wow. And the old man, he got to see my career. He was never really big into the movies I made because they didn't have Clint East put in him. But he appreciated the fact that I would go do Q&A. Like, if my old man was alive, he would love this. He's like, oh, I'll just sit there and watch him talk. Because he knew that I became a good talker. because he used to buy me comedy albums.

Like, here's George Carly. And here's Richard Pryor. And so he could make the connection. He saw it when I was doing Q&A. You could tell. He was like, I had something to do with that. I don't know about the movie shit. I did take him the movies,

but I never once told him he could fucking make one. But I did have something to do with him standing up there talking. This has been, it feels like time just flew by. It did fly by. I'm so delighted that you were able to pause. for me because we were supposed to do this last week dude anytime and then you're busy man you waited i just wanted you to and then i was the other day i was like oh now i can't be there at 11 because i got the mpa thing so it was very kind of you to move shit around well i'm glad after the mpa is mpaa is mpaa is i just

make it one one long mpaa but yeah it's nice to you to come after they turned you down on your rating you win some you lose some and i've won a lot with them you had well you've won a lot in general and i came close though that's the thing and i'm not like when i'm like fuck i was this close but i was i was one off you know and and i there's nothing honestly that i could have said to make the difference i don't believe so i'm not like re-litigating it i did i ended with like you know kids i've been doing this 30 years man and like please don't disillusion me by by giving me a rating i don't deserve a little bit of your heart i think that's how i got to five i think somebody was like i fucked up all right that's fine but i don't

I bet you I might have lost one or two with that, too. They're like, I won't be manipulated. Yeah, that's it. He's done. I love you, and I thank you for coming over. Thank you for being so inspiring. It really, some of these things really hit home, and it makes me want to even be a better person and go out and make stuff and not depend on people and really just go your own way, Fleetwood Mac.

Look at all this. You've got this, Lindsay Buckingham. In fact, you got this so much. You're fucking Mick. That's who you are. Nick Fleetwood, baby. Thanks for being here, man. Thanks for having.

ever wonder how dark the world can really get well we dive into the twisted the terrifying and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes hi i'm ben and i'm nicole together we host wicked and grim a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time with deep research dark storytelling and the occasional drink to take the edge off we're here to explore the wicked and reveal the grim we are wicked and grim follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform that's it i mean what else can you say great guy great conversation i hope you enjoyed it if you did uh follow us um go on my instagram at the michael rozenbaum and the link tree and all that stuff the cameo con's coming up the small volcan rosy's puppy fresh but it's all there um on my link tree and uh if you want to become a patron and support the podcast patreon dot com slash inside of you right now we're going to just go right into it these are the top tiers these are the folks

that really give back and support the show so we can keep doing it. I can't emphasize that enough. So I genuinely appreciate it. You know, what's cool is my back's been really, really bad lately. And I got these injections, and I'm 65, 70% better in my back. Nice. I was, like, hopeless. And we were supposed to do these one injections.

And the guy I was like, I go, let me show you my pain. I just want to make sure we're doing it in the right area. He goes, you know, let's do a facet joint block. We haven't done one of those in a while on you. And I go, okay, so we changed the game right before we're about to go in. And they put you under. And then I woke up and I immediately felt better. And I was like, wait.

So it was a blessing. It's amazing when you have, you're hopeless and you're like, I'm just going to be living in pain. That's why you always have to hope that there's something out there that's going to work. So hopefully this works and it lasts a while. It made me happy. I hope so, too. Yeah. I like that.

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newbies here. Thank you for joining Patreon and supporting this podcast. It means the world to me. And thank you guys. From the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I am Michael Rosenbaum. I am Ryan Tayas. A little wave to the camera. We thank you for being here. We thank you for taking the time to join us every week and keep making time for us and we'll make time for you and be good to yourself. I'll see you next week. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice.

Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamin's follow and listen on your favorite platform.