Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Kiefer Sutherland & Jason Patric: Lost Boys in Los Angeles

Episode Date: April 27, 2021

Amazing episode this week. Kiefer Sutherland (24, Designated Survivor) and Jason Patric (The Lost Boys) join us this week to talk about their bond built off of The Lost Boys, being intimidated by other actors, and what it was like growing up with Hollywood royalty in their families. Kiefer and Jason reminisce on how they met and how they each developed as young actors by helping certain productions of movies. The guys reveal some funny stories while on the set of Lost Boys and Kiefer’s wedding and later we discuss how social media and cinema coexist in modern day entertainment. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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We did. We went to, I rented a theater out. You could do that so it's safe and everybody wore masks and there was 20 of it. Well, it was probably like 15 of us and we saw Back to the Future at a private theater. I hadn't been to a theater. I didn't realize how much I loved the theater or the theater Until I was there with an E at the end It was really fun

And Back to the Future was so good And I hadn't seen it a while I think the last time I saw Back to the Future Was also in a theater for like the 25th anniversary Which would have been 10 years ago Wow and you loved it just as much Yeah It's one that you have to see in a theater

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Ryan's Ryan's discount 15 can you remember that Ryan's discount 15 you know it's been it's been a couple weeks now since since my pup passed Irv and people are like how you doing and always asking me it was just beautiful thing how folks have been just sending me all these messages and it's you know some days are tough

when i really start to think about it when i'm not busy it's it's always about distracting yourself but also you have to feel it you have to feel the love and feel how much you loved him and you know i definitely get those moments and i have his um collar that i put a little shrine for irv uh in the living room and um and so it's been cool people have been uh awesome so i thank you guys immensely for that cool stuff going on man you know me and welling um i'm not going to say anything but you're working on a project together hopefully that will happen but uh i'm sure a lot of folks like to see us together again doing something yeah man just been uh been writing and trying to pitch shows and come up with ideas and do things and um doing the podcast and trying to get people to join

patreon and uh listen to the podcast what do you've been doing bud editing the fucking podcast The fucking podcast. Well, you know, this week's really, I thought this was really great. To get Kiefer Sutherland and Jason Patrick over here. And they both have, you know, they come from Hollywood royalty. I mean,

Jason's dad was the priest, the head priest in Jason Miller and Exorcist. Just brilliant. And won a Pulitzer for that championship season. Oh, yeah. Championship season, right? Yeah, yeah. The play.

And just, you know, and of course, Kiefer Sutherland's dad, Donald Sutherland. And just two amazing guys, and they were really, they gave a lot of insight into this world. And we talked lost boys. We talked about family. We talked about a lot of stuff. So I think you're going to really enjoy this.

So without further ado, why don't we get inside? Kiefer Sutherland and Jason Patrick. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. You guys met obviously in Lost Boys, right? We did, yeah. Did you meet?

How did you meet? Do you remember the day you met? I don't specifically remember the day. I know it was up in... We shot the film in two places. We shot it in Los Angeles, and we shot it in Santa Cruz in the very, very beginning. And in Santa Cruz, it felt very disjointed. there were two units it didn't feel as cohesive an experience for me at least uh when we got back

to los angeles so i know kind of when i met jason it was like hi this is jason he's playing da da da da and it's like hello and here's your mark and hey well nice really nice meeting you man i'm thrilled to be working with you okay and look over there and okay rolling just like that it was kind of like that. And I remember we became... He's looking at like, well, I remember it a little different. You remember him? Well, he's right in that it was disjointed. And it really probably was just a handshake hello. But I do remember that I actually had my birthday up there because my birthday is on June 17th and I turned 20. And they made me a cake. I guess it was me on a motorcycle or something like that. And everyone said, happy birthday and all that. And I specifically remember Kiefer coming up and taking the knife and just cutting

my head off for his piece of the cake, taking a walk away. Now, that was before we worked together. And then the first day that we actually worked together is the first day those characters meeting the film. Yeah. Yeah. On the motorcycle. Did you hit it off right away? Or was there, you know, there's always that thing. I hope this guy's fucking cool. I hope he's not a hot hat. By the end of that night, I think. Yeah, I think so too. I mean, I was, I really appreciated the fact when I first read the script of Lost Boys, you know, I came from the world. of get whatever job you can and just deal with it later right uh but lost boys was written for much younger characters uh they weren't supposed to be in their 20s they were all supposed to be

kind of peter panish 13 12 13 year olds and and joel had made the change that he wanted it to be kind of 20 kind of early 20s and stuff like that and so a lot of the dialogue had to change and I really appreciated how seriously Jason took it, you know, that he was there to try and make the best film he could. This wasn't, I need this much money to get me to my next job. This was, how do we make this really cool and special? And so he did a lot of, you know, Joel Schumacher, who we both kind of love and adore, but he did a lot of the battling with Joel kind of on behalf.

half of the rest of us to make the script what it ultimately became and and justifying certain actions for our characters, et cetera, et cetera. And so I really appreciated that he took the lead on that and that he was kind of an adult, serious actor. Because a lot of the stuff that I had done, I'd done with very young people. Right. Stand by me was with 11, 12 year olds who were amazing, by the way. And they were fantastic. And you were young too. I was 18, 19. Yeah. I was a year. I was a year younger than Jason. And so you guys would get, as a collective, you and Amy, Amy, Gertz? Jamie, Jamie, Jamie, Gertz.

Fuck me. I make mistakes. But you guys would all get together and go, this, this, this, and you'd be the guy, the point man, to sort of talk to Joel about it. I think sometimes, but it was more that I spent a lot of time with Joel because he tried to get me in the movie for a long time. And once we started going, because I had a lot to do, it was all. always about the piece, whoever else was in it. So if I felt that there was an issue that

it wasn't quite working, it was more going to Jamie or going to Kiefer and say, what do you feel about this or this? I would never speak for them. And then I would take the lead and go in there and say, look, and I got to say, look, Lost Boys is Lost Boys because of Joel. And when I say that, I mean, he got the guy who shot Raging Bull and Taxi Driver, Michael Chapman. You know, that guy doesn't come off that and shoot teen vampire movies, but Joel got him. He got Bo Welch, was an amazing production designer. And then he got all these actors. He get Diane Weist right off an Oscar, Ed Herman, Bernard Hughes, you know, and young guys like me and Kiefer. And he would be open to those ideas and open to dialogue and to make it interesting and different. I think

the reason the movie has lasted is because of that effort and because of the involvement of the people that he picked. And our relationship as adversaries grew. But as I said, after that first night, we were thick pals for the next week. Did you guys go out a lot? Did you party? We used to go out. We'd go out for lunch in our makeup. You got to tell that story. We're, we're sitting in it. Driving off the Warner Brothers lot in his convertible Mustang. No, Porsche. And it's, oh yeah, it was an old, it wasn't, it was an old 1970, 9-11 T. It was an old, old Porsche. And we were in full vampire makeup, but we had, we just couldn't have any more the catering lunch. And we just wanted to go get a burger or something. And so we pulled out.

Who's with you? Just me and Jason. Just it to you. In full vampire makeup. And these girls pulled up. And I guess we'd been wearing the makeup so long that we forgot it was on. Yeah, we couldn't see it in each other. And the two girls in the car next to us, we were like, hey, how are you doing? and they did not appreciate it us. They called us a variety of names and squealed out. Literally the light turns green. We're looking over as 19-year-olds in the portion of everything. And right when the light turned greens,

they just look at us and say, pigs. Pigs, yeah. And drove right off. Yeah. Perfect. Yeah. That's a perfect day. It's a perfect lunch.

Yeah. We laughed about it for a while. The look on their faces was worth a million bucks. Because then we were silent. What the hell was that, man? Because you didn't register. And then we looked at each other going, oh yeah i mean look it's a stupid question but like i've been on projects where i go oh this is

going to be good this is going to be a big big piece of shit did you think this is going to be big didn't have the experience to to know yeah uh you know i look back on that time and whether it was lost boys or stand by me or even flatliners which joel's directed it as well those experiences kind of start to shake what you think when you're going through another experience, oh, this might have a shot. But it was such early days for me. I can't speak for Jason. But for me, it was such an early time that you just did the best you could with the job and you were grateful to have the job. And I had never experienced a huge hit. I don't think stand by me had come out before Lost Voice started shooting. So,

It didn't even cross my mind. You just were having fun as a kid. Yeah, just, and not even as a kid. I mean, I took it very seriously. I was living on my own and, you know, it wasn't even as a kid. It was the beginning of what I knew the rest of my life was going to be, or at least I wanted it to be. And so that was really exciting. All right.

Well, you, Jay. You know, we were shooting for the sky. I know that. I know that I was determined to make the best coming of age beat. vampire movie ever made. And honestly, you have to understand that, and you've made movies in the genre, we had high level people as young, these young men working with. As I said, Michael Chapman, the sets. It was a perfect storm. Yeah. And look, you know, soundtracks weren't everywhere like they are today. That

Lost Boys soundtrack people still play. So it was a meshing of all these things, but once again, Joel's greatest strength as a director is seeing talent and not being intimidated by that. He welcomes it all in because he's going to create this collage and you have a big say in that collage. And as young, you know, man, that was only the second thing I'd ever done. That's a lot to say to have. That's a lot of say in a big move, in a big studio movie. I think that's important, right? I mean, when somebody who's helming the ship, it's, if you see any cracks or he's, you're nervous about so or it can't it bleeds through right have you felt up before like this guy doesn't know what the fuck he's doing oh gosh yeah yeah it's got to be the worst feeling as a director but worse

as an actor because you're like we're gonna fall we're gonna we're gonna fucking sink oh there's ways there's ways around it and then the trick is to try and be as helpful as you can when you you know when you realize that someone's inexperience uh is going to be problematic you know because there's some people that are inexperienced and find a new way, you know, and that's really exciting and cool. But there's some people that don't. They get lost. And if you can help them out, it's easier than complaining about it. But Joel didn't, Joel, Joel was an incredibly confident guy. And again, had a sense of, I think he had a sense of the future or what was coming down the line or how to be a part of it than most people.

And whether you like those films or not, you know, when you can't argue with the fact that three of his films are arguably, you know, benchmarks for 80s filmmaking. Yeah. Have you guys ever been intimidated by another actor or a director where you could actually feel that intimidation? I'm intimidated by Jason Daly. Still is. I'm glad he said it.

That's why I get his autograph every time I can. You've worked with some of the biggest names. I mean, both of you. I mean, you've been around it, your Hollywood royalty. I mean, you're, you know, you've got to think there's somewhere along the line where you're like, I mean, was it, was a few good men with Nicholson? Was it? That was great.

That was, I mean, that was the only time I've ever gone to work. And actually half our cast went into work on their day off. Because the only two people working that day were Jack Nicholson and Tom Cruise. And I just sneak in the back of the courtroom set and I just want to see it. And then I look around and every other actor on their show and a couple others, I think Bruce Willis, because he was with the me and, yeah, the gallery was just full of people. And he did that in two takes. The big one. Yeah. You can't handle the truth was two takes. He did the whole scene in two takes. And he had such a great way of learning it. He would record, he would read it and record

it on a tape. And then he would just play the tape in his car forever until he had to go do the scene. And the dialogue, he just memorized it, it was a part of him. And so when he went to go do that scene, I mean, he just blew the room away. And it was the first time I'd ever seen it. And Rob Reiner just said, well, there's nothing else we can do with that. Thank you very much. And he rapped everybody early. That whole speech, you need me on that line.

You want me. That whole was two takes. The entire scene, which has got to be 15. to 20 pages. It's the whole crescendo of the film. Did it in two takes. But you weren't intimidated by him. No, because he made a point to make sure,

I mean, I certainly knew who I was working with. But he made such a gracious point of making sure I felt comfortable and welcome. And J.T. Walsh was on that film who has since passed. I was friends with him. He was great friends with Mr. Nicholson. And so, yeah, I've found that the people that I've worked with that are worthy of being intimidated are also really kind and go out of their way to make sure you feel comfortable so that you can

do your best work with them. Wow. Jason, I'm about you. I mean, you worked with Gene Hackman, didn't you? I work with Hackman. I worked with DeVall. I mean, those guys seem like. Hackman seems like he'd be difficult.

He's one of my favorites. But he seems like he'd be like, you know, he had a limited few days on Geronimo. And I got to say, like Keeper said, one of the first things he came up to me and said that he had seen a movie of mind, or two of them, that he really liked. And that helped and that helped out. And but I don't, you know, I don't, that did help. But I, I was excited to work with people. Like, it's like playing, you want to play with tennis with people that are good. And it was a similar situation that Keeper said when I did sleepers because Hoffman and De Niro were wearing it and they'd never acted together. Because, you know, this is back in 93 or 94. So, of course, everyone showed up, and it was in a courtroom. So in the same thing, everybody was in the gallery. And it was funny because Levinson was the director of Barry Levinson. And for the first few takes, it was almost like no one was acting.

He sort of had to stop and then call them over and say, so, hey, let's act. Everyone was underplaying everybody. But I don't know. No, I like that. Look, if the person in front of you, the more real they are, the more real they are, the more inventive they are, that gives you better choices. It's better to play off that. It's better to reflect off that.

I've always felt that. What if you have an actor that you look up to that's just brilliant? That is just like you're going, this is fucking terrible. This person's just fucking shit in the bed in front of me and no one's saying a word. That's exactly what I felt when I did that guest star on Smallville. You're a fuck. Because Lex Luthor had always been my hero. Yeah, yeah.

So, I mean, that's had to happen where you're one of your icons and the guys, and no one's given direction, like, this is not going to be good. In all fairness, I'm not trying to be politically correct. I have not had that experience. You know, I think for me over the course of my career, sometimes maybe I've misjudged the quality of the material. I think we all have. You know, I think, and that's no one's fault but mine, right? But the actors that I've worked with, you know, not only have I been really lucky and fortunate to work with some incredible actors that everybody knows and that are huge icons and they were not disappointing, they were phenomenal at what they did, I've worked with day players

that'll blow your hair back. I mean, that are really great. You know, that's as exciting as anything. It is exciting because you're also never going to see those day players again. Yeah, and you get in there with a day player and, you know, every day you go to work, I'm going to dance and to have a good dancing partner, wow, you know. And it's, by the way, that's the hardest to be a day player and come on and not be like, this is a family, and all of a sudden you're stepping in and being great.

Yeah, yeah, and so experiences like 24 and designated survivor really allowed me to have that kind of moment with other actors a lot. And I valued those moments as much as anything, you know, period. And it was just like, man, this guy or this woman is just kicking this shit out of what is maybe not a very great scene. It's just kind of, you know, get us to point A to point B. And they nailed it and they killed it. And I've just, those are the moments that I remember that I really, really do love what I do.

Do you go out of your way sometimes to say, hey, I just want to say that was great? If I see someone who does something that I think is great, I will do everything I can to make sure they know. And by the way, that goes far. I mean, people love hearing that shit. Well, if they've put the work in and you can see it, they deserve it, you know. And so again, you know, my experience with actors has been pretty extraordinary. And I know I've been really lucky because I've sat at a bar more than once or twice and heard the stories of some of the crap that goes on. I just haven't run into a whole lot of it.

Right. Jay? I think I've been pretty lucky. I mean, I haven't worked as much through the years as Kiefer because there's a while there where I would just be selective in every year or every two years, just not work. So usually the projects I was involved in early on, especially were stuff that I had a lot of saying. So I worked with the people I wanted to work with. And I got to work with directors where once again I had a lot of input.

But I've definitely had difficulties. I mean, anyone would. But it's a business filled with narcissists and vanity. And, I mean, Kiefer and I have been in it for 35 years. So there's going to be difficulties. And there's going to be things that, I don't know, make it more difficult to get it up these days. For me. Literally and figuratively.

Well, certainly working-wise. I don't know. Kiefer's different that way. He can get into a mode and really chug it out. But in all honesty, I'd be a little more dispirited. I think. You regret being more selective, being too selective at one point in your life? I don't regret it because it led to certain projects that I'm proud of. Do I think that selectivity has a respect and integrity that ended up working in my favor? Probably not. I mean,

the business changed so much. It really became about fame and how many titles you have and things like that. And I mean, I could remember even back, I mean, geez, when I did NARC, I mean, Narc was on a shoestring budget. There was nobody. And then Carnahan and Leota, you know, they met me, wanted me to do it. And there was a nothing company making it. And this was back in 2000. And they didn't want me because they literally said I didn't have enough videos on the video show. And I'll give it to Carnahan. I mean, he said at the time, I'm going to at least meet with Patrick. I don't know if he's going to do it, but if you're not going to let me meet,

then we're not making the movie. So, I mean, those are the kind of difficulties that came from that. Now, there would be some people that would stand up like that. But once again, I hadn't worked for three years before Narc because I did your friends and neighbors, which I had produced. So, but I also got to say, I've always looked at different points in my life is, what is this project going to bring to me? What can I give at 22?

What can I give it 35? Do I have something to say with this director, with this project? Because I really just looked at having a life, honestly. I never really tried to build a career. And I think now maybe that bites you a little bit, but I wanted to live life. And these stories that we'd ultimately act in, for me anyway, were going to be a part of that life. So that's the way I approached it, not what would be the next best move.

So you still love... He's so full of it. Why is he full of it? He was patient. He'd find the right film to do. He basically liked having lunch with me and hearing me go, man, I really wanted to do that film. Did you like making it? And whether it was Belly of the Beast or Rush or, you know, those were the jobs that everybody wanted.

I mean, and you have to understand, you know, Robert De Niro, who was probably the actor that anyone in the early 80s kind of wanted to emulate. certainly in the kind of career and work they were doing. In that situation, you did maybe one film every three years. I remember telling my daughter, when she started, I said, you want to have the perfect career? Do two films, one in your 20s and then one in your 40s. And then be done. You know, and everybody will call you a real artist.

And it's the truth. And I think at a very early age, as much as I believe there is an artistry to it, This was how I was going to raise my kids and I had kids when I was really young. I was 19 and so I took a left turn and Jason went straight you know and I think you know I've always taken my hat off to Jason because there was a credibility factor that he had that I don't think anybody you know or you know the Gary Olman's at that time did and the Sean Pans but it was That was a tricky wire to walk. So I always took my hat off to that,

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I never really understand why, you know, you hear about, oh, well, what happened to that person or what happened? You mean, they're a great actor and they're available and they, you know, it's, you know, I've had these conversations with you or it's like, you know, you were so selective and then you went off and, I don't know, pretty much got your son back for many years. And there's that whole story. But it's not like you go anywhere. It's not like your talent escapes you. But it's got to be frustrating sometimes when you're like not being considered for certain things. It's like, you know, what the fuck happened? What time?

Time happened. Yeah, time happens. You know, father time undefeited. Well, it's not so much that you're not being considered. People just think you're impossible to get. You know, so it's a double-edged sword. And it's, you know, but I think you have to look at the root of why the decision was made. And I will always have huge respect for, you know, the films that Jason's made and the choices that he's made.

And I'm not joking. Every year we'd have a meal. Man, I really wanted that film. Congratulations. what was it like to make that you know i was just watching for uh your friends and neighbors and i that scene in the shower or it's like a five minute push in on jason's character and i'm just like it's one of the most powerful like even if you don't want to watch it or listen to it or you're doing tweeting and doing you're so drawn to it that i am just completely focused on that

it was one of the most amazing monologues like i've ever seen it really truly was like i'm sure you're aware of that. No, thank you, thank you. Let me guess. Kiefer was two takes. I wasn't there for that one. I know, I know, I know. Actually, you know, one of the reasons I think it was so well written by Neil Lebutte. And as I said, I produced it and put it together and cast it. And I said to him, everything was filmed on location, except obviously that we built that one steam room. And I said, you got to build. I never wanted to tell him how to direct. I said, this has to be one take. Build a long dolly. and just come to me. And I'm not saying it for me.

I'm saying for your language, you don't want to break away from it. And he wanted, in a way, to make the longest monologue in American film at the time. But as you know, the content of it is so difficult to try to pull off

because of where it goes. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. Yeah. So, and once again, to go back to what you were saying earlier, the degree of difficulty, like a dive, I love that. We rehearsed every scene.

We did that movie like a play. We had three weeks of rehearsal, five days a week, culminated with a three-day retreat in a house we got in Arrowhead. Now, you could never do that with actors today to get me, Catherine Keener, Ben Stiller, Ben Stiller, Nasajikinsky, Aaron Eckhart, myself. And the thing was, if one doesn't show up, nobody shows up. And don't forget, there's no iPhones then, no one brings their kids.

So when we started, we were ready. Ready to go. And the one scene that we never, ever rehearsed was that steamroom scene. Jesus. By the way, I'm getting uncomfortable because I know. as Kiefer's been looking around at all these posters. He's like, what the fuck's wrong with this guy? No, no, no.

Did you notice one over your left shoulder? Yeah, I saw that as I sat down. No, always just take in one's environment. How do you feel about that? How do you feel about actors getting autographs from other actors? People collect baseball cards, cars, you know. I mean, if, for whatever reason, if it's something that you dig, I'm back on it. You don't do it?

You don't have any autographs, do you? Yeah, I signed for him before he got to. up you. I got Jason's autograph. Hell yeah, you're done. That's about it. That's about it. I think I'm looking around at the posters kind of remembering when they had posters. I remember when we were

doing young guns. We were doing young guns one and the first thing we shot was the trailer. Is that true? Yeah. You shot the trailer, shot for shot. The very first day, the trailer was us coming over the hill and all of us raising our weapons

and firing into the camera. And And then it went Young Guns, you know, February 1987 or whatever it was. And we shot the trailer and then we went straight from that and we all shot the poster. And I remember looking at Lou Diamond Phillips and went, I hope no one fucking dies. And he went, why? And I said, well, because they won't be able to, they put out the trailer saying, you know, We're doing stuff on horseback. We're doing this, that.

Yeah, there's no digital erasing. A lot of accidents can happen here. And if someone were not able to complete that film, the whole ad campaign is just shot to hell. So we started in a time when the poster and the trailer were as important as anything. Absolutely. And in the case of Young Guns, in someone's executive's opinion, more important than the film, which I thought was hysterical.

Because there were newspapers. There's no newspapers. Not newspapers, when you got that big full-time ad, I remember with Lost Boys. Now, look, that's a classic poster, and that's all Joel. Warner Brothers didn't know what to do with this movie. And the movie did good. It became huge on video, but that's all Joel. He put that whole thing together, and that wasn't a shot.

He took pieces from things, photo shoots, pieces from the film. He did the poster. Oh, yeah. That's all Joel. That's all Joe. Everything they had sucked, Warner Brothers had no idea what they were doing. that's all him. But Keepers right, there was also, there's a romance to old posters, as you know, because you have them here. And it's the same thing with the trailer. And we talked about this

before. I mean, I think that we both find that we're lucky that we've been around a long enough that we experienced when it was a big deal when a movie opened. Because there weren't a hundred of them and there was no streaming. And you knew from the trailer that this movie was coming out a few months, or whatever your favorite movie was, and premieres were real. So we had that last sort of wave of that Hollywood history and also being part of films like Lost Boys that didn't have digital effects, and it makes a big difference. Yeah, if you, I mean, back in the day, if you had a premiere in Westwood, that was it? There was a shot you were going to do pretty well. And definitely get laid at least. Yeah. Without question. Although I think I screwed that up,

do well let's say almost definitely for some of us look you both come from hollywood royalty and i've seen so many like documentaries and i've seen the true hollywood story whatever that you know you've done all these interviews and stuff but like growing up like i grew up with a guy who was a manager at a pharmaceutical plan who worked his ass off and you know i didn't see him all that often until he came home and you know we have we had dysfunction in my family for sure like everybody else But I couldn't imagine, you know, your father, late father, Jason Miller, was a Pulitzer Prize winner. He was the priest. Everybody knows the priest and the exorcist, which was like unbelievable performance in that.

He was a great actor. And of course, your father's Donald Sutherland. So it's like there's no fucking way that it's easy because your fathers are probably both out. They're all doing their things. They're having careers. And like being a kid, it's got to affect you as a kid. There's no doubt. not having them around all the time and so i mean but growing up a sutherland growing up uh you know

i guess like a miller at the time at the time i mean how how difficult was that and is it something that you know because i have stuff that happened from childhood and you let things go i'm an adult you know my father i've talked about he's never capable of saying i love you i'm proud of you good job i've never heard those words even just still even still you don't hear those words you don't hear them that's just not in this. But I've learned that that's just who, you know, he can't do that. That's not who he is. And I, and I forgive him. I love him. But as a kid, not hearing you're really good or you're smart. I love you. Those are fucking difficult things not to hear. So I'm just wondering, did you guys hear that stuff? Was that the constant or is it something

you always were chasing or was it hard growing up? I had a great childhood. I mean, I honestly, Pretty awesome life, actually. You know, I didn't grow up with my dad. I grew up with my mom. Great theater actor. Every night after school, I have to go to the theater, do our homework, wait until the play performance was over, and then we'd all go home. So I was around the theater a great deal.

That's where I started. That's where we ended. you know so and as a kid you just what you get is what you know so i didn't have any trauma or drama you know and yeah my dad was was working and and i think probably one of the most prolific important careers in english language you know and i'm his son and i'm hugely proud of him uh did we spend a lot of time together no um Do I understand it? Absolutely. Yeah. And we tried to make up for it as years went by, you know. Did that work out? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's our thing is our thing. And it's, it is what it is. So,

you know, but I'm hugely proud of him. I think he's an incredibly smart, sometimes very, very funny guy. And he's a brilliant, brilliant actor and was really important, I think, to cinema. And so it's what it is. It also allowed me at a very early age to go, I'm going to do what I want, you know, because everybody else did. So I found that to be really helpful. Yeah, I always felt like there was a little competition with my dad and I. Like, there was always like, you know, when I was an actor and he's working his ass off and making a, you know, go to school and study and run a plant.

And I was like, oh, you're making all this money being an actor? That's not fucking work. I mean, obviously he was an actor. So you were both doing the same thing. But did you ever feel like there was a competition? No. No. No.

I mean, it was interesting for me, things timing worked out. My father had moved to France and decided to take a few years off. He has three younger sons with a different mother or wife. And so he took, you know, a sabbatical for really almost a decade. And that was right when we started doing lost boys. our and my films so and i've asked him he didn't do it on purpose but he left a window open for me that i thought was you know pretty cool and and so yeah so i never felt that i just uh i'm sure you've had your moments no i mean i i honestly i'm thrilled when he's happy with the stuff that

he's done uh and i'm thrilled when things are going really well for him uh and equally i'm grateful for the opportunities I've had. And he commends you. He'll call you after something. I love that. Yeah. And you do the same. Yeah.

Yeah, absolutely. Wow. How did it affect or did it affect how you raised your kids, you growing up, an absent father? Did it have the change? Well, it's not so much. No, because, I mean, I worked and I made a point of kind of being in the same town. as my daughter. I think the biggest change for me was I got divorced from my daughter's mother

when my daughter was quite young. And I think I made a point of handling the divorce in a certain way that I didn't think either of my parents and did that very well. So I made a point of really trying to do that well and camellia and i are still really close friends uh to this day we still have thanksgiving and christmases together uh so i think we've done that about as well as as you can't it's not something i'm recommending for anybody out there uh try and avoid divorce right and uh you know i'm i love camealia and always will and this is why we got married uh and we were lucky enough to be able to kind of take care of each other financially and in other ways, which is generally what makes people kind of go crazy.

It makes it easier on the kid, though, when you're friends, I mean, no doubt about that. And the, you know, the one person in the group that didn't get to make any of these choices is the poor child. So, so. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And she's extraordinary and Michelle.

And so, yeah. So that was probably, you know, in looking back at. as a parent looking back on my life, if there was one kind of moment that I tried to do differently, it would be divorce. Hmm. You got to tell them the, uh, your wedding story. And then I want to hear you about your, you have to tell them about your dad. No. Well, what about the wedding story? No, no, it's, uh, I was very young. Uh, we're all young. And Jason was worried that, that I wasn't making a very good choice.

and he had offered up his companionship and basically said, you know, if you start running right now, I'll run with you. And he said this at the wedding? Yeah. Well, we were in the backyard. And I said, no, I'm good, man. I'm good. Thank you, though.

There was a big wall in the back and there was lots of people. There's a lot of drunk people and a lot of people and other substances. And we were just talking. And just in a wistful way, looked at that wall and said to Kiever, said, you see that wall? we run to that wall we climb that wall we just keep running and we just shared a little laugh about that laugh well what about you though with your with your dad i know i mean it was different it different than kefers because my dad had a brilliant burst and then that was it as kefer said his dad had a much more sustained career and and was famous my dad i i never felt fame in my family i mean we're

very poor, lived poor for a while. And my mother's father was a wealthy man, but gave nothing. Jackie Gleason. Right. Your mother's father was Jackie Gleason. Right. But you guys were poor. Absolutely.

So Jackie was Jackie Gleason at the time. Tipping doorman $100 bills. But, you know, meanwhile, you know, hot dogs for Thanksgiving for his daughter and her husband. Yeah. And kids. What was? Is there a reason behind that? I don't know what the reason was, to be honest to God.

I met Gleason twice in my life. So I think there was probably an actor idea that he didn't approve of, which is strange because he was and he came from great poverty. But my dad wrote that championship season and then became a very big success, had never been in a movie and got hired in The Exorcist, which is a story for another day. It's a great story how he got that. So, you know, he went from cashing $3 checks at the bank to a year and a half. when he appealed surprise being nominated for an Oscar in the biggest movie of all time.

And he's a kid, ultimately, aside from his talent, from Scranton, Pennsylvania, coal mine. And he couldn't handle it. So that was as great as it was lifting us out of poverty and all this wondrous stuff. That was the end of dad because he was gone after that. Well, what about, I got to, I'm thinking about Jackie now. Now there's all the success. Did Jackie come back into the picture? Absolutely.

He did. Oh, yeah. And absolutely, because they wanted to make movie versions of that championship season. So Gleason then wanted to play the coach. And I think that's at the point that my dad said, go, fuck yourself, which he had every right to do. Look, there's a lot of crazy, you know, Shakespearean fear and vengeance and anger in our business. And I can't explain why, as a father, I can't explain why you wouldn't help your child. I don't know, but that was the case.

Look, from my dad's standpoint, it made him, you know, delivering welfare checks and driving cabs and being a waiter, it made him say, I have to be a success. And I think I told Kiefer this when we were doing the play, that he came home one day. We lived in Flesh and Queens, and I was pushing my brother on a broken down playground in this building we lived in. He said he came up the subway stairs. He looked at us, and I was pushing my brother. and he said he started the cry.

He said, I'm getting them out of here. And he went up in the elevator and he started writing that championship season that day. Wow. And so, you know, you go with what you go with. And what was your relationship with him? Was it pretty, I mean, pretty solid. No, definitely fraught because he was gone,

had, you know, major, we've talked about, you know, your dad, I don't know, but mine had major alcohol issues and drugs. And the truth is when he had this amazing sort of common of fame and couldn't take it. We lived back east then. He moved to California, you know, bought a Porsche, sort of lived his James Dean Fantasies out, and sort of sadly pissed away this amazing, amazing career that he had. Because at the time, championship season was the longest running Broadway show since Streetcar Name Desire. And he was, gives one of the penultimate performances in The Exorcist, the 70s performance. The movie doesn't work without him.

He can write his own parts in his own ticket, and he just got caught up in the typical Hollywood sort of downturn, the spiral. So from that, you know, as a young man, you look up to your father, and you also need him to be there. But in some edible sort of way, when I decided to do what I wanted to do, I just cut that line, man, and wanted to become my own person. And so I never talked about him or my grandfather or any of those things in the early days ever. How was the relationship towards the end before he passed? Did you kind of salvage things a little

bit? There was times where we were restrained for a while, but towards the end, yes. I mean, because you just have to look at for them as you said, this is who they are. You know, he didn't change them. It's crazier for us to think that we're going to change our parents. This is all he could do. I mean, in 1938, you're born and then you, if you want to have sex, you marry someone. Right. And then you have kids. You're not ready to do anything. And then you all of a sudden follow your passions or your mistakes or your demons. And so, So you have to see, you know, who they are. Look, doing the play all those years later, not only reignited my relationship with Kiefer,

which, you know, I love like a brother, but it also, in the court battle later on, because I did that play and I did it in New York, that's why I got Gus back. So in some carmic way for everything he did, if I didn't do that play at that moment, you know, and have my son visit me at that moment, that piece of evidence that I used, I never would have wanted to see my son again. And when you and Kiefer did that championship season in 2011? Yeah.

Yeah. Did you, you said something about, didn't you take some of his ashes? I had his urn for the ashes, and I just put it on the stage as part of the things. I figured I knew he would love this cast and figured he might as well put him up there.

What was that experience like? I know it was short-lived, but was it an amazing experience? It wasn't that short. We did two-hers. He did a couple months, right? No, I mean, seven months. With rehearsals, we were there at least five months.

And we've played it. We played it out. It was the best experience I've had because not only we're doing this play every night, I mean, I'd say to Kiefer, every night, he'd be in the wings, but I started the play on stage alone. And he'd be sitting in this window, you know, he doesn't come on for 10 minutes ready to go. We'd do the same thing every time. We'd give a little fist bump and say, time of our lives.

And he'd say, go kill it. my head so it's not wow when you asked before do you know when something is going to be magical yes we did and even if it wasn't we wanted to appreciate all that moment right yeah it was a it was definitely was not a short time and it was a but it was it was an incredibly balanced cast and and everybody went for it you know it was it was i miss The film industry, my experience in the 80s where, you know, you would go shoot a movie up in Oregon and the entire cast and crew would move into a hotel and you'd take over the bar and you just, it was a very communal experience.

Much more fraternal over that. And obviously that's changed. But when we went to do the play, you know, there was never. night that the five of us weren't every night out together and every night after every show they're finished we go grab something to eat have a chat visit laugh about someone did this or that and visit our various haunts and it was great that's great yeah it was awesome inside you is brought to you by rocket money if you want to save money then listen to me because i use this ryan uses so many people use rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your um

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bower of 24 and the one thing i always look at because my fucking mind goes there you know me i'm like god how does he learn all those lines how does he fucking work that much the guy who's always working why does he work so much are you someone that just has to work i've asked this question other actors I just, I enjoy it. You really enjoy it. 24 was an incredible experience. It was the closest thing I've had to a regular or real job. And I've had actor friends of mine, you know, who were really nervous about doing television, and I spoke glowingly of it.

And then they went and did it and hated it. You know, they hated the repetition. They hated. for whatever reason I didn't feel that way about that character I didn't feel that way about the show you know if you want what I ended up walking away from with that

is you know if you want to go to the Olympics and be a sprinter you train you know and for me as an actor to be able to work five days a week 11 months a year you're going to learn some shit and I did how do you train for that

What do you do to prepare for something like that? Well, no, I mean, you train with the regular things that you would do as an actress. So, you know, after a certain amount of time, you start to realize your ability to absorb dialogue is exponentially improved. You realize that your ability to walk onto a set and figure out how to block a scene exponentially improves because you're doing it every day. And when we started, we were doing, you know, sometimes a film a year, which is just a few months. So it taught me a lot, and I loved doing it. Is it for everybody? Oh, my God, no.

Because the people that I told them, you know, you'll love it, do it. They fucking hate me. They didn't like it. And, you know, it's not for everybody. But I do. I have always liked working. You know, you guys talked about Gene Hackman. It's my favorite actor.

I've never met him. I've never worked with him. Very jealous of that. You know, he would do eight films in a year. You know, whereas Robert De Niro would do one and a half movies every three years. But De Niro would do that in the first 15 years. Yeah. You know, now you will see him.

Now he does eight movies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But Gene Hackman literally did. I remember the closest I ever felt to Gene Hackman was one year I did more movies than he did. Yeah. You threw yourself a party. Yes, I did. Eight movies in a year?

He did, yeah, Gene Hackman. Obviously, if he's done that many movies, there's probably a lot of Gene Hatman movies. I always assumed everything he was in was great. Oh, no, no, no. But these were. One of them was the package. There were some great films in that. But look, he had, I think, three ex-wives, which is one of the reasons he's doing a lot of movies.

That could be part of it. But he was also in, you know, invasion of the killer bees. But he was fucking great in it. Not a good movie, but he was great. Like, the thing I've always admired about, you know, Gene Hackman and the Poseidon adventure, the guy does not have a false moment. No. The film might not be great, but boy, he's just, I've never seen anybody that watchable

and that can take me from point A to point B easier. I just, he's a marvel. And the most believable temper. Yeah. When he loses his shit, what was that postcards of the edge? you go home and you get your shit together. Yeah. And he just loses his mind for a second.

I'm just like, whoa. He can go zero to 70 better. Yeah, that's explosive. And I don't, you don't see that very often. Somebody that could just go fuck up. Yeah. And just snap like that. I really.

I mean, you take a look at even the performance that he gave in Bonnie and Clyde, which was so nuanced. I mean, he's kind of playing the, the hick, dumb hick in the back of the car. And kind of bemused by words and what he doesn't understand. It's just the delicacy that, because he's a brutish kind of guy, the delicacy with which he can do some of that work is really exceptional. I also like guys, as Kiefer said, and he was a Marine, and guys like that that come from something so totally different.

I mean, we both understood somewhat what theater was, what acting was. was doesn't mean we'd have to find her own ways, but it wasn't a foreign concept. I just love the idea how some big glute who's a Marine and then somehow stumbles into the business and brings that. But it was also one of the qualities of those great 70s films that a guy like Gene Hackman, who looks like Gene Hackman, a guy like Elliot Gould, a guy like Donald Sutherland, a guy like Al Pacino could be major worldwide movie stars. And very hard to believe that that could happen today. Well, yeah, I mean, the two biggest stars in the world at that time were Robert Redford

and Paul Newman. So when you think of someone like my dad, I always thought he was the bravest man in the world because at that time to go, yeah, I'm going to go become an actor and kill it. Yeah. Really? You don't look like Robert Redford and Paul. Newman, you know, and neither did Gene Hackman, Elliot Gould, Robert DeVall, or Pacino, or Hoffman. Yeah, so it's, it's, uh... Because it's just acting was all that mattered. Do you

have the chops? Yes, that's what mattered then. And that's also that mystery, which I, Kiefer was alluding to, of doing a film every year or so and disappearing, and then coming back into that character. That definitely influenced me in those early choices of mine, without question. Well, and it was a big difference. I mean, certainly I can reference my father's work. If you wanted to go see Donald Sutherland in a movie, you had to go to the movie theater. There was no option to watch it at home. And so there was a big separation between film and television.

HBO, the movie channels back in the 80s, that started to blur the line. and then the internet just demolish it. But it was even more than that. It wasn't just if you wanted to see a Donald Sutherland movie. If you wanted to see Donald Sutherland's face, you had to go to a movie theater. Same thing with the De Niro. What does he look like? Who knows?

Let's go see. And I always thought that why it was so powerful is when you did show up, you got to learn about them through that. Not this mindless crap that everybody has to do. I've got to see it. And I've seen De Niro and Letterman with... Hoffman and others people. It's completely boring to me. It's not interesting. Um, and they're uncomfortable. But to see them expose himself in a movie. I'd like to just point out that Jason said

that. Not me. I knew that was coming. I thought your stuff was extraordinary. Kiefer loved you on Letterman. I did. Yeah. No, it's not interesting to me. And it's not just him other actors. I'm much, it's much more interesting to me. And I'm much more involved watching them in what they do, as opposed to satisfying, and these days, satisfying all this mindless platform junk, to me, it waters down the power of everybody's gifts. And you can make the musical reference of, you know, David Bowie was the perfect example of what you're describing, is David Bowie didn't even stay in the same kind of genre, musically, aesthetically. So you never really knew who he was. And the mystery of who he was,

was as exciting as the product that he was making. Right. What was that album cover going to be? And that is, that is, that is changed. The mystery is gone is what you're saying, Jason? What absolutely is. I mean, Bowie's a good example, but there are actors who are similar is that the trends that were created was coming from whatever their artistic expression was, where they were

in their life. Now it's the opposite. Whatever the Zekegeist is, you're supposed to fold into so you can get as many eyes as you can. And it's gone the opposite way. Now, you know, and that's difficult. And look, I have a big problem with, you know, social media. First of all, it's a misnomer. It's antisocial. There's nothing social about it. You're not socializing. But the problem is that people are appropriating other people's lives by what is popular and living in someone else's virtual now. And I think it's very hard for kids. That's why you have all these studies now that talk about

the suicide and depression rate of people doing all that. And, you know, we're actors and that's the way things get seen now. So you have to sort of, I guess, find a way to meld into it. I haven't been good. It's been good with it. But, you know, also, if you're a guy like Kiefer or certain actors, they don't even need to do social media. It's not going to affect their career. Their careers, you know what I mean? I mean, you're lucky in that regard. But for like someone like me or something, it doesn't affect Jason's either. I mean. Well, Jason doesn't do any social. do you? No.

Yeah. So clearly ads. More than anybody's. Yeah. I mean, it's a tough one. It's like, I hate it. I hate always feeling compelled to do it, but you got to get your face up there. You're showing what you do and you're not melding.

By the way, Kiefer's Instagram or whatever is mainly about his music, which is amazing. So it's not, hey, here's my donut and here's my puffy pout. This is what I'm, this is what I'm about. And I think that you do a really sort of classy, very sort of underhand way compared to everyone else now, you know, man? But you have something to talk about with that, and it's the music. Well, and the main benefit for me with social media. Look, I've been incredibly fortunate, and other people have backed me up on that. And so, you know, to be able to have a moment where you get to thank an audience that

that's true collectively enjoyed something that you did, man, I'll take that any day of the week. But I agree with Jason that it is, it's unfortunate. You know, when you get to the bullying and you get and you see young people think that, like the number of young people that I've seen said, well, whole world knows, you know, what I look like naked because someone posted this picture. I'm like, well, the whole world's not looking, you know. I think we had to remind ourselves back in the day that if a review was bad, you know, it was wrapping fish the next day. And it was. You know, and, you know, we need to kind of dial back the whole, this idea that the whole world is interested in anything, any of us really do and just kind of take a deep breath and go, ah, cool. But it, but it is true.

that if you make a mistake in youth or even have an opinion that at the time is not where the wave of opinion is going, that is there forever. And we're not have to get into the cancel culture, but that is another thing. And I think that's the problem of appropriating other people's behavior and living things. You're not able to just feel who you are and be able to speak and make those mistakes or, more importantly, have your opinions change. Yeah. That's, your opinion. opinions change. Yeah. We grow.

We evolve. I think you've said some things maybe in the 90s. Maybe you didn't mean it. We say shit all the time. So you definitely have to watch them out. People get fired immediately for certain things. And it's, you know what's good, though, is that you were just talking about, like, for someone like Kiefer, who doesn't really use social media except to talk about, like,

you know, let people know about the band. Right. You love your music. It's probably your first passion. It sounds like it. I mean. No, I love them both. I love storytelling.

And so whichever kind of medium you want to use. used to do that. Storytelling, you know, we did that championship season. We told Jason's dad's story. Yeah. Write a song about a moment or a thought. I love to do that. And then to go do a film or do a show like 24,

it's all storytelling to me. And it's just different ways you can present that. What I love is the fact that there's a lot of actors. I have a band called Sunspin, you know, and I love them. I love the album that just came out. really busted our ass but you of course people look at you go oh actor trying to be a musician oh keeper southern's good but then i'm like wait a minute these guys are fucking on tour 200 fucking cities across the country he's got all these albums and i started listening to it and

i was like wow not putting my band down but it was really impressed thank you you you know and one song that really touched me was not from this album because reckless in me is the new album right it is or did another record in the pandemic but won't come out for another few months yeah sweet but I love that song from Down in a Hole, the album Down in a Hole called My Best Friend. Yeah, yeah. Because I just, you know, I just, I felt it, man. I think we've all been there where you kind of wake up one day and go,

wow, I'm the one hurting myself, you know. Find a way to make me my best friend was just like that lyric. It's great line. Thank you very much. Great line. Yeah, because I always think like, you know, people so many times in this podcast or like, dude, be better to yourself. Don't, you're not dumb.

you're not that you know they're all and sometimes my perception of myself and then I listen to that song and it just was exact like it's like love yourself dude fucking just love your fucking self and I don't know a human being on the planet that hasn't needed to be told that once you know uh or reminded uh you know it's look it's been it's been an interesting time the thing that made uh kind of caught my ear when you said you know an actor trying to be a musician I'm not trying to be anything. I can play. I can write.

I'm not trying to be anything. You either like it or you don't like it, but I'm not trying to be anything. And I'm not doing it. And there is a big difference. This is not how I'm putting food on my kids' table. This is not how I'm making sure that they're all right. I get to do it how I want it the way I want it. And again, the first tour we ever played, I was happy anybody.

showed up. Literally, of 10 people showed up, I was thrilled. The fact that more people did, I was grateful for that. Do I understand why 50,000 didn't show up? Oh, my God, yes. You know, I mean, it's no big deal. You know, so it's, again, I think, especially at this stage in my life, when you start to realize you got more years behind you than you do in front, do it because you want to do it. You know, if you're lucky enough to be in that place, then do it. Can I play one hair of the song? Sure. Is that you playing?

Most of the people that I've known that let me down or cause me pain. Most of the people that have known me too. probably say the same i don't know when it got so bad or how it all went off track all i know is i can't waste more time no more looking back so goodbye to the past it's time to start again i'll find a way to make me my best friend. Come on. That is songwriting. That is pen to paper, folks.

Thank you very much. It's really, really good. I really, really love it. I really love it. Touch the soul. It really did. You got to see him in concert because he's got a really tight band, and it's a really good show.

Please, let's go. You've got to see his dancing moves. Yeah. I've seen, you know, look, I was watching some concerts online. I was watching one time you were telling a story on stage. about how you wrote a song for your mom and then you told about her then she looked at you like she was upset yeah because well i wrote about her passing because she had had a really bad stroke and uh and then of course the plane landed and she had my sister had said she wasn't going to make it

and so i flew home and she did make it and then i'd had this song for a long time it was called Saskatchewan. And I said, look, I want to play this for you so you know what I'm going to be going through because I thought you were going to pass away, and I wrote this. And I just thought, maybe I play it for you so you know how much I'm going to miss you. And I played it as a song. And she looked upset. And I started thinking, oh, my God, what have I done? This is the dumbest thing. why would you do this? Why would you play her this song? And I start to apologize. And she says, no, no, sweetheart. You know I don't want to be buried in Saskatchewan, right? And I said, yes, I know. It's a metaphor that that's where you're from. And she says, oh, then I love it.

That's amazing. And my mom has since passed. So if she can hear me now, I miss you. And she was funny like that. And Kiefer did put you in Saskatchewan. I'm sorry. No, I did not. No, he didn't. Hey, really quick, this is called Rapid Fire. This is just patrons, my fellow patrons, just ask questions. You can do it really fast. There it is. Jason, you found a new guilty pleasure during the pandemic. If so, what is it? Uh, pickleball. Kiefer. Have I found a guilty pleasure? Yeah. Pickleable. Cooking. Cooking. Cooking. Uh, Leanne P. What character have you portrayed? Do you relate the most to? For me, it would be Jack Bauer. Jack Bauer as well. It'd be Jack Bauer. Come on, is that sure who? There's got to be a character that you. I really could. No. You couldn't tell it.

No. All right. Lisa H. for Kiefer. So many great roles in films, but one of my faves was flashback. What was it like working with Dennis Hopper? Dennis Hopper's amazing. I'll tell you a very quick, funny story about Dennis. Please. We're coming back from work one day. and I had only known him for about two or three days and he was getting married or he just got married and I had just gotten married too but I was 19 and he was closer to 60 and I was in the truck with him and I said you know I think it's so cool that you waited to get married to you absolutely knew you were with the right person and he looked at me and he said are you an idiot when I said, what? No. Why? And he said, it's my fourth marriage, you moron.

I literally was so naive that I thought that he had waited until he was 50-something years old to get married because he was holding on for the right one. Oh, I love Dennis after that. You Canadian, you? Michelle Kay says, did you keep any souvenirs from lost boys, either of you? I kept a leather jacket and the sunglasses and then gave them both away. I think I kept the jacket for a while, and I don't know where it is now. Well, you know, somebody who would like it. Maisha. Is there an artist, Kiefer, you love to jam with?

And also going home is my favorite song by all. Oh, that's very, very sweet. Oh, my God. The list of people that I would like to play with is just ridiculous. You know, again, the aspect of music that I like the storytelling. I'm not the greatest guitar player. I'm certainly not the greatest singer. But I've loved the storytelling.

So there's so many different players that I would love to play with. One of my favorite storytellers, though, just from a very early age, was David Bowie. I think I would have loved to have been able to visit with him for some time just to talk to him about songwriting and get a sense of how he visualized so much of the stuff. stuff he did. Yeah, that would have been awesome. Eating Bowie, heck in the day. Cynthia, I remember watching the movie Rush, Jason. You and Jennifer Jason Lee were extraordinary. What was the way you approached this role and how emotionally intense was it to portray that character? Yeah, it was rough because it's so totally different than me, that type of character and someone in that deep, deep, especially how old, I was 24. So at that, someone who had lived

that kind of life and that kind of desperate addiction. So, as I said before, instead than going on doing a bunch of drugs and hoping to get filmed that way, I feel you have to find those places in yourself that are that desperate and that dark, and I didn't have the technique at time to find it and do it. So for that four months, I stayed in that type place. And it was pretty heavy, pretty heavy, man. Kiefer, will we see Jack Bauer again? Are you done with 24?

I have learned to never say no. When we finished season eight, I said we were done, and then we went and made season nine. Look, there should be no mistake here. I absolutely love the character, and I love making 24. With television, the burden is on the writers. And if those writers, Howard Gordon, were to come up with a great idea, I would always be open to us. You'd shave your beard for it? Oh, my gosh, yes.

He'd shave his balls for it. Kelly S would love to hear you say, Damn it, Chloe one last time. Damn it, Chloe. He did it. He fucking did it. All right. Now, look, this comes to the end of the whole interview,

but there's one question, is elephant in the room I've got to ask? Has anyone ever asked? I'm sure. When you were going to get married to Julia Roberts, I know this is old fucking hat. This is 30 years old. 30 plus.

30 years old. So who gives a shit at this point? Right? It's been that long. I mean, you were kids. Then, Supposedly, you had a thing with Julia Roberts. You took off to somewhere.

Where'd you go? Well, I mean, that was all the press. I mean, the fact was from my story. Ireland. Yeah, it went to Ireland. Ireland. I was just going to say, have you guys ever talked about it? Was it always the other?

Yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. Sure. Well, because, go ahead. Go ahead, Jason. No, we talked about, we hadn't seen each other. We hadn't seen each other for over 20 years. And then we contacted.

if it was that long, but yeah. Sure it was, Matt. Yeah, we probably, I think we hooked up again in 2009 or 2010 and I hadn't seen, and I didn't see, yeah, over 20 years. Before that. Well, so long time. Yes, we had talked about it. Look, the thing is, is that she's not here. So right in this room, so I'd feel strange talking about what she told me or what she told Kiefer because she could speak for herself. Right. But the large stuff about the press and being invited to the wedding and then taking off at the bride and all that. That's all bullshit. That's all bullshit, you know, I mean, I don't, Kiefer's specific relationship and what they

were at the time, that's theirs. I mean, he can speak about that. But ultimately, there was a thing in Rolling Stone, and Kiefer said something, and then you called Kiefer. Right. Well, I was making a joke about the country song, and someone had asked me a question about Jason. I said, well, I mean, you know, I lost my pickup of my dog and my best friend.

friend and I miss my best friend you know and so look the press can make whatever it does and that was a difficult time for me and I think it was an uncomfortable time for both of them but look honestly the truth where I'm coming from you fall in love you fall in love there's nothing you can do about that and and she's an extraordinary person and he is too and you know timing is what it is and you know everybody moves on from that well the maturity though because i mean most people could never you know get over something like that or they would hold grudges or whatever but you guys had a bond i don't know i mean george harrison and eric clapton were best friends till the bitter end you know but it wasn't it you know it wasn't to and it wasn't that

by the way right right i think if they could deal with what they dealt with we could certainly Look, when I saw him again, whenever that was, 12 years ago, whatever, it sort of, it was a few words of this and that. It was more of a laugh and a toast. And I've said in the press before, they've both been subsequently married since a couple times. I think they're both very happy in their lives. And what lasted after all that is me and Kiefer is, you know, 35-year buddies. Never got the truck back.

So, Keith, when are you guys playing again with all this pandemic? We've got a tour in Europe in October, and hopefully we'll be able to play here in the States come July. And where can they go to get some information? Your Instagram? As soon as we have it, we'll put it up on an Instagram, and then it'll also go through Ticketmastering. And your Instagram's at Key for Sutherland. I hope so.

I think that's what it is. Cool. All right, that sounds good. We're going to go. But you're going to play anywhere in the States before you go, like a little show here or two? Hopefully in July. And then, you know, as stuff is opening up, and I think it needs to go slowly. and I think people need to be smart about this.

But there's a couple of opportunities that might come around in June where I'll just go out and do kind of solo shows with a guitar and stuff like that. So I'm excited about that. It's definitely worth it, you guys. Yeah, if you ever need, like, the opener and then there's a second band and a third band,

then you need the first guy to go, second guy, Gus and I, your son, Jason, we can go, you know, on stage. Well, Gus is a much better guitar player than anybody. Gus is awesome. The kid's unbelievable. Yeah, he's special. He's special. Yeah, Gus, we love you, man. You're incredible, buddy.

That he is. He loves Kiefer. This has been, by the way, congratulations on quitting smoking. How long have you quit? Oh, seven months. Dude. Seven months. That's, how hard is it? Is it still hard? I miss it. You know, uh,

I'm glad I'm not smoking. How much were you smoking? I was a pack a day. Oh, stop. It packs. a day before noon i've been trying to get him to stop smoking since 86 without question i really liked it you know i really did uh i did it for a reason you know and uh i'm really proud honestly i don't i don't feel much better for it but everybody around me uh feels better feels a lot better for it how about that so well you probably smell better your clothes smell better

you don't really care about that you smell really good today yeah really uh was it Is that Dracara? What is that? It's one of those little fresheners? No, Dracar. Oh, Dracar. Remember Dracar? I thought it was Draccar.

I thought he said his car. It was one of the air freshener. They smelled good. What are you talking about? But to all those folks out there that have quit smoking into people that are considering quitting smoking, I mean, it's hard. And I never thought I would quit. I had taken the long-term plan.

but it is possible. Do you feel better right now than you did when you were smoking? I felt pretty good when I was smoking. You know, and I ran and I did a lot of stuff, but yes, I feel better. You said your voice is better. Yeah, there's a lot of, there's, there are significant benefits. Including life. Yeah. Including life. Yeah.

No, and the truth is, you know, it's made such a difference to people. people who are around me. And for that, I feel really bad, but for 40 years. Plus. Yeah. Plus. But honestly, if you're out there and you're considering smoking and it just seems like an impossible barrier, it's not. I mean, if you did it. If Keefer's selling to stop smoking anyway. That's what you said. That's what you said. By the way, I read an article that Jackie Gleason, your grandfather, smoked six packs of cigarettes a day. At least four, without question. Just light the last one. With the next, like the last one with the next.

Well, guys, I hope I didn't keep you too long. This has been really awesome. You rock, brother. This has been, yeah, this has been really fun. Thanks for coming in. And you're the first guest I've had in over a year because I've had to do Zooms. So hell yes. Awesome. And thanks.

Thanks again for coming over. I really appreciate taking your time. Thank, Jay. We'll do you next time so we can talk. We have so much more to talk about. All right. Inside of you. Inside of you.

Thank you for allowing to be inside of you, Kiefer, today. I really enjoyed the conversation. between these two and when i brought up uh julia roberts at the end i saw kefir kind of gave me that look a little bit and but he was so sweet about it and jason and uh you know he gave that little wink when i'm like well so who went to ireland uh where did you go with julia and keifer goes ireland they went to ireland uh but you can tell these guys have been friends for a long time and you know it's great that they could still be friends after all these years and some of the you know you know hollywood always yeah um amps everything up

Like, I'm sure there was a, there's a lot of reasons behind why, you know, the wedding didn't happen and, you know, and then how Jason got involved with Julia and it just gets blown out of proportion and you got to choose who you're going to believe. And the fact that their friends and their friendship has stood the test of time is, is, it shows a lot. It tells a lot about these guys. They're mature. And so I really enjoyed having them on here. It was weird because I haven't had someone in the studio for over a year. So I was a little nervous and I was just like sitting across and these guys going, okay, we're talking, we're talking.

And it went well. It went well. So it was so weird. Once again, if you want any Sunspin merch, go to sunspin.com. You could book the band. You could book us. You could also book a Zoom and Zoom us. Zoom, Zoom, Zoom, great merch.

You also get any inside of you merch and Lex Luther stuff, Smallville stuff on the inside of you online store. Use the code, Ryan's discount 15. Ryan's discount. Never what I think you're going to say. 15. Ryan's discount 15. Shout out to all my patrons, all the patron love.

And thanks to everybody for listening to the podcast every week and staying with it. I mean, there's so many choices and you choose to stay with this. So I hope you continue to stay and support the podcast. And, you know, I try to get the best guests on that I can. And more importantly, have just good conversations with people and to the point where I hope you learn something at the end of each episode. That's, I learn a lot from listening to people. And with my ADD, it's good to put these cans on and just be able to focus for an hour.

And hopefully, uh, you're enjoying it too. I learned that I'm taller than Jack Bauer. That was exciting. Oh, yeah. You are taller, but you're a tall guy. All right. Here's a shout out to all the lovely patrons who make this show possible. And thank you, uh, to Bryce and thank you for Ryan.

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S. Thank you guys all for being here, for being a patron for supporting the podcast in so many extra ways. I love you. And I've got to be doing probably in the next month. I have to be doing a little Zoom with all you guys. I could zoom a Zoom, Zoom, Zoom, and the boom, boom. Thank you

from Ryan here and myself, Michael, in the Hollywood Hills. Hollywood, California. Hollywood, California. Wave with the camera, Ryan. We love you. Thank you for allowing me to be inside each and every one of you. And you mean a lot to me.

So be good to yourself. And I'll see you next week. All right. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account.

The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends.

And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's, follow and listen on your favorite platform.