Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - KUMAIL NANJIANI: Career Changing Anxiety, Wrong Priorities & Marvel  Disappointment

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

Kumail Nanjiani (The Big Sick, Silicon Valley) joins us again on the podcast after several years to reflect on his career taking off with The Big Sick, Obi-Wan Kenobi, and Welcome to Chippendales - along with the untenable anxiety that came with it. Kumail is really open about how he has misguided priorities after The Big Sick and why he was used to associating work with stress. We also talk about his friendship with Dave Bautista, disappointment with Eternals, and getting back into standup. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. You like when I say baum sometimes. I know that's how you say it, but you put it an inflection on it that is silly. It's Michael Rosenbaum. How's that? Michael Rosenbaum. Well, that's the real expression. It sounds like you're doing a soundtrack for a porn.

Baum. Baum. Boom. It's a great. Now, I guarantee Jason just put porn music on there. Thanks, Jason. I know you did that. You're smiling.

because you did it uh thanks for being here on another glorious tuesday or whenever you're listening to your podcast and thank you for making this podcast your choice your choice i mean there's so many podcasts but you know we've been around we're not one of those podcasts that just jumped on the bandwagon we've been doing this when we had no listeners and now we have a loyal fan base and uh my patrons who really support me and support the podcast they get back to the podcast to make this podcast possible A-T-R-E-O-N.com slash inside of you. Join, join Patreon today. Become a member.

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tree shake the link tree and uh it will show you the cons i'm going to that me and welling are going to and doing smallville nights and everything is on there um my rosy's puppy fresh breath uh dog breath additive you just add a little to water tasteless odorless um it's on there please check it out it's on amazon and it really works i love it i use it on my dogs and so much more on the link tree on my instagram um camille nangiani this is his second time on and uh This was recorded actually during the, um, strike. Yeah, uh, Kamail is just, uh, such a great guy and super talented and always so busy. People always want to work with this guy.

And when you know him like I do, you know, we're not tight, but we're like, we're friends. He came up with when I had a party and, um, I love him. I love his wife, Emily. I think they're the sweetest souls out there and he deserves all the success. He worked hard for it. And, uh, so. We get into a lot of his life, and I thought it was a really good episode. Also, if you want to go to Sunspin, my band, sunspin.com, support the band.

We're trying to make a new album. We do stage it, which are live performances, virtual. We might do one on December 10th, or not December 10th, February 10th, which is a Saturday at 5 p.m. So I think we're going to lock that in. And you go to Sunspin.com for merch, which I have, there's so much cool merch there, these wicked hats. and tumblers and other stuff too so check out sunspin.com and without further ado let's get into my inside of my buddy comal nangiani it's my point of you you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum inside of you with michael rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live

studio audience inside of you is brought to you by rocket money i'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money period it's rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings this is just a wonderful app there's a lot of apps out there that really you know you have to do this and pay for and that but with rocket money it's they're saving you money. You're getting this app to save money. I don't know how many times that I've had these unwanted subscriptions that I thought I canceled or I forgot to, you know, the free trial ran at Ryan. I know you did it. That's why you got rocket money. I did. Yeah. And I also talked to a financial

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Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. Back then, what you had to do to get into premises was so easy. Like in weird science, they're just like, we should have a girlfriend. Let's make a girl on your computer. And then they just make it.

And that's it. That's the whole. That's the whole setup. There's no like breaking into a lab. There's no lightning strike or, magical ambulance. Stories were simpler in the 80s. I mean, just getting into it was like, we know you just want to get to it. So let's just do it. It was also a different thing was like, now every story has to, every character has to have some like backstory about why they are the way

they are. And it has to be allegorical. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Everything has to be thematic. And it's also like, this bad guy's not really a bad guy. He had a rough childhood. Like, sometimes I don't care. I just want someone to be really fucking evil. And that's it. Do you though? Do you not want to have some like subtext, some like backstory on the evil guy. So you like at least go, okay, because usually they're just bad. Not always. I don't always want that. I do want it sometimes. Right. But sometimes like, you know, it's sort of this thing that became like, you know, these horror icons that we grew up, grew up with like all the big, you know, Jason and all those guys who we love. And then at some point, yeah, Jason's next to me. Freddy's up there. You know,

but sort of became at some point like, well, well, how did they get this way? What happened to him? I'm like, I ultimately, I don't really care. I guess it's a, it's a slasher flick. But think about it. What if Michael Myers, was there a backstory to Michael Myers? Really? Yeah, I mean, sort of. He was in an insane asylum, asylum. He's just the shape. He's just evil. So I actually like that backstory because they're like, no, Halloween, the Rob Zombie ones had backstory on him. He had a fucked up childhood. Whereas in the original one, you know, Donald Pleasance is just like, this thing is evil. And that's it. And I thought that that was cool. It gives me more, you know, have my mind swim around in. Whereas, you know, I think Rob Zombie is a great filmmaker.

He just, he does what he does. I just sometimes feel like I don't need backstory on all the, you know. Yeah, I agree. Brian Possein, I think, had a really funny. bit about like Darth Vader's backstory. It's like, I just want to eat the ice cream. I don't want to know like what, you know, that we first rechurn the butter or whatever. I think there's a balance because I think with some things, having a bad guy who's a bad guy is good. But then sometimes I think, this happens with like notes, you know, we get notes from studios

and stuff. And it'll always be like, well, what's the bad guy's deal? And then you spend all this time making them. the bad guy's fucking deal. And then suddenly you're like, it's true. Yeah, focusing on something that was never really part of your story,

doesn't really care about it. It's taking away from moving the action forward. Yeah. I understand. Sometimes you just need an obstacle. You just need an antagonist, you know? Do you love horror movies? Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Emily and I are both hardcore, old school, since I was a little kid, horror movie fans. And we watch everything. Great stuff, bad stuff. What's good? Did you see talk to me?

That just came out. I liked it. Yeah. Okay. I thought talk to me was really good. It was good. Yeah, it was totally good. I liked the new Evil Dead, too. Evil Dead Rising? Yeah. I had fun with it. Yeah, I had fun with it. Those were rarities, though, because there aren't many good ones. It's tough because I think horror has become very popular and it's become like a moneymaker.

And whenever that happens, it was always like a niche, you know, and now it's sort of the only thing that performs in theaters. it's superheroes and horror that really performs in theater. So now suddenly horror is getting a little diluted when it used to really just be a real expression of the filmmaker, like some of the stuff that Wes Craven did, was like, you know, it really felt like nobody but him could have made it. And now you watch a lot of the horror movies that get big where you're like, oh, I could, the process that sort of dilutes other movies

is now diluting horror movies. So I like when something like talk to me comes out where it's like, oh, clearly these two guys made this fucked up movie. Yeah. And it's cool that we look, it's hard to come up with a really cool concept, something that hasn't been done. And also when you're dealing with the 70s and 80s, you're dealing with no technology really, no cell phone. So it's creepier. People can't make the call. They can't go online. They can't do all the things. So now you're really going. Well, why didn't he just do that? Yeah. Why don't he just call them? Dude, I used to when I used to do a lot of stand up, I'm back

to doing stand up now again. But I used to have a bit about that where it was like before you go to the horror movie, they have to have, like, oh, no, I dropped my phone in Sprite. You know, everyone has to, like, I forgot to charge my phone. It's dying. Yeah, every horror movie in the first act had to be like, I don't have any bars. Like, that just became. We have to know that right away. So we, yeah, exactly.

Yeah, it's hard, you know, like movies like The Hitcher and stuff, much harder to do now because it used to be you could go to the middle of the country. There's nothing around. And there's one guy chasing you? What the fuck do you do? And I think that sort of, you know, mystery and magical nature of, like, those weird parts of the country have kind of gone, too, with the connection and all that. But, you know, you have this poster of Ram Stoker's Dracula here. And do you see that it's signed by Gary Elman?

Oh, my, fuck, God. I have crossed the oceans of time to find you. What a great line. See, what's great about that movie? I had watched it when I was a kid when it first came out. out. And I played the video game and I liked it, but I feel like I didn't get it. And then in the video game. Does the video. Does Bram Stoker's Dracula video game? Yeah, they thought it was going to be like this huge

blockbuster thing. Instead, it's this really fucking weird idiosyncratic movie. Right? So they had a video game for like, it was for the Genesis. And I think they had it for the Sega CD. You play video games like crazy. I still do it. I still do it. Does Emily hate it? Emily loves it. We both play video games. We both watch horror movies. We both play video games. We both love it. Wow.

We're playing Zelda right now. Zelda? Yeah, it's great. You mean back in the day, Zelda? There's a new one. There's a new Zelda. Yeah, it's called The Tears of the Kingdom. How many hours do you spend a day on your video games?

It's pretty limited. Rarely more than one hour. How do you really get into a game only with one hour? Well, that's the thing. But on Saturday or Sunday, we'll do a longer session. So you got to, that's the thing. Like Emily's always like, you have like a problem starting games because you know the first time you need to do like a three-hour session

to really get into it. Otherwise, you're just going to be bored. What are the great games right now? I'm playing while bridging the horror and the thing. You know, they just remade Resident Evil 4 and Dead Space. They like, they look like brand new games. And both those games are fucking fantastic. Are they scary?

Dead Space is really, really scary. With Resident Evil, you know, it's more of an action game and as like a real, I'm getting real nerdy. I love Resident Evil because it was always about, you have three bullets and you got to like, you are completely underpowered. And then Resident Evil 4 made it an action game and suddenly you have like a lot of bazookas

and shotguns and suddenly it's an action game and it's not as scary, not as atmospheric. And at the time I didn't like it because I was like, this is not my Resident Evil. Now playing it again, knowing what it is, I really loved it. Wow. Yeah. I don't know how you have time to do anything.

I mean, since we talked last and it's been years, but your career has just taken off even more. It's like, well, no, it's just obvious. It's like, you know, the, the, uh, OB1 series and Eternals and Chippendales and getting nominated, and all these things. And it's weird, I look at you, and you came over the house, like a couple weeks ago or whatever. And you just don't feel, now, I don't know if you're a bullshit artist or you're really good at playing, I'm cool, I'm fine, I'm not stressed. But, I mean, even with the, I mean, what, how do you, are, do you stress out? Do you freak out?

Do you, do you get, are you getting the anxiety? Do you, are you overwhelmed by now being, you know, really up there? now with all these opportunities? That's an interesting question. I do have anxiety, and it's been an issue for many, many years. And it's sort of, it was a few years ago, actually, where I realized, like, oh, this is untenable. It's too much anxiety. And there was a few things.

I realized that I had associated work with stress and nerves and anxiety. And it had become, like, because of stand-up, you know, right before you go do stand-up, and that was the first work I did. You've done stand-up. your heart beating and I used to smoke, you know, back then I would just be like smoke four cigarettes and drink a Red Bull and then go on stage completely like wired and so up. And so I sort of associated that body feeling with my work. And it was really hard for Emily. And it was really hard for me. And it was really my work suffered. And I realized it was right before Eternals actually where I was like, this is by far the biggest thing I've ever done maybe the biggest thing I'll ever do. This is so important to me. But if I'm like nervous or anxious about this, I'm going to choke the fuck out of it. So I need to relax. And so I started seeing a therapist and learned the ways to like really sort of let things go.

And I've realized that when I'm relaxed, I'm better at my job. I'm better at acting. And now I'm better at stand up. I'm a better husband. All that stuff. So I've, I meditate every day. And I still have anxiety and stuff, you know, but I've, especially those middle of the night thoughts you know when you wake up and you're sort of like what is this thing um i had one last

night yeah what was i i just i you know i don't remember exactly what happened but i had one of those dreams where people that i don't like were still a big part of my life and dictating what i do and sort of like it was just and i don't know what that means but uh it was almost like they were telling me something. Yeah. And I don't know, but I have, I have some dark dreams. I should write them down because they're Clyde Barker's shit sometimes. I find, at least for me, you know, the way I can, like, interpret my dreams. And I don't, I'm not one of those, I don't believe that they tell the future or anything like that. It's just like, to me, it's just a snapshot of your subconscious. To me, whatever my biggest clue to what my brain is trying to tell me is the emotion I associate

with the dream and the emotion I associate with the people that are in the dream. So, for instance, for a long time, Emily and I, you know, we've been married 16 years now. We have a cat. She's 15, so she's been with us. How old's a cat? Fifteen. I mean, what's the name I meant? Bagel. Bagel is your cat. Yeah. Now, what last name do you use, Nangiani? We use Gordon. Gordon. Gordon. Gordon. Bagel Gordon. Bagel Gordon. Bagel Gordon. Yeah. But she's been with us the whole time. And I, for a long time, if I had a dream about her being in distress, something happened to her,

or she's missing, or me worrying about her, that was about my relationship with Emily. It was about some, I realized that the feelings associated with that. And it always seemed to coincide with when, you know, Emily had and I had an issue we were dealing with or something. So I realized that it was about that. Since then, you know, more recently, she's an older cat. She's had some health problems. So now I had a dream last night that she wasn't doing well.

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Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses as so many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? cool is that monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings and you

know what's great it works it really works ryan rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and it goes to work to get you better deals they'll even talk to customer service thank god so you don't have to um i don't know how many times we talk about this but like you know you got it and you got it and they helped you in so many ways and with these subscriptions that you think are like oh it's a one month subscription for free and then you pay well we forget

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Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket Money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money.

Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today. and tell them you heard about them from my show. And you go to therapy every week.

Yeah, I go basically every week, right, right. And are you like me where you're like, I'm going to cancel? I have nothing to really talk about. And then you get in there, and all of a sudden it's the floodgates open. Yeah, I do cancel sometimes. I do.

And sometimes the floodgates open, but my last recent one where I was like, I think I'm doing pretty well. There's no much to talk about. And then I think even she was bored. like we're both just like i've done that i did this once with a therapist it's about 40 minutes and i go all right well my time's up yeah so uh thank you to schedule something else looking at the although dude i had another session that i i sort of you know i started doing stand-up again and it's

sort of opened up some interesting old patterns for me that we can get into if you want to but it's sort of like uh regarding anxiety and so i was like i need to have like two or three sessions with you in a row because I need to figure out what's going on. And so the last session of that, we were just talking about it. And I was sort of talking about the strike and how I can't work. So I've had to do stand-up. And she's like, describe yourself without using your profession or your work or what you do. And I had a panic attack.

I was like, she's like, what are you if you're not like an actor, comedian writer? I was like, I don't know. that's that's weird yeah right so you can't associate yourself other than who like who you are is what you do i yeah man you don't have that issue i i really i mean yes i mean to a point but i've been working on it for like five years where i just i kind of like took a break from acting and i'm starting to get the bug back yeah because i've my anxiety is it'll better a much better level and i'm working on a lot of things but um I think it was always about that.

I think it was always about, you know, because people think, they say, oh, what are you doing? And you have, you're compelled to say, dude, it's so hard. Oh, well,

I've done them doing. I'm doing that. Nothing is coming to fruition. But I, you got a lot of, a lot of pans. I got a lot of things to stir. Sput in a lot of plates.

A lot of plates spinning. But then I'm like, because I felt like they needed to know I was important maybe. Or I felt like I needed to be important. And it's, and really it's about, you know what? And people say, what are you doing? And I go, you know what? I sort of got this is what I say.

And I go, I'm just trying to have fun. Yeah. And when I say that, it means fun with everything. I'm trying to have fun with work. Dude. I'm trying to have fun. I want to be present and fun with you. I want to be present and fun with my friends.

I want to be a present fun when I'm writing. And I'm thinking, well, what if they hire a different, you know, writer and fire me. I'm like, I can't control that. That's the future. Just have fun. do what you can, and whatever happens happens. Dude, that is... I'm trying, I'm trying.

That's the key to everything. And I'm trying to, I mean, you bring up anxiety. And I, you know, for me, anxiety is a constant... I don't want to say battle, because it's not a battle, but it is a constant thing that you have to work on. Like, it's not like, and now I have no anxiety. Yeah. Anxiety comes back.

You need to know how to see it, understand it, and deal with it. But that shit, what you said about control, is so true because for a long time, I mean, the last few years of my career, when I had a lot more opportunities, I found myself, you know, it was after the big sick and then suddenly, you know, I was getting offers and I had never gotten that. I had fought to get like one scene in the movie and suddenly I had all this stuff. And I realized that the way I was evaluating what I wanted to do and what I didn't want to do was all completely messed up. I was looking at like, okay, if I do this, this movie's going to come out in theaters, it's going to be a big hit, then I'll get more.

I was always results based on my decision making for those like three years or so. And then I realized, you know, I did stuff that should have been a home run and then it wasn't like Eternals. You know, it's it was, it was Oscar winning director, one of the craziest casts, you know. You had like legends, you had Salma Hayek, you had Angelina. Julie. You had new people who were amazing. Brian Tyree Henry, Barry Keoggan, who have both been nominated for Oscars. So you thought it was just a slam dunk. I was like, there's going to be a slam dunk, and it'll be great. It'll open all this stuff for me. And going into it was great for me because I was like, I need to have fun doing this movie. And so I just, and I did.

And I was like, I understand this movie in my bones. I understand superheroes. I understand sci-fi. I understand like sci-fi epics. And so I had the best time doing that movie. And I realized this is what work should feel like. However, when that movie came out and the reviews weren't good, that was very, very tough for me. And I realized that too much of how I'm evaluating what I want to do

is based on the result what other people think of it. Me too. My whole life was that. I remember doing a movie and saying, oh, these people learn it like you said. And, you know, it's a big studio. And I remember even being so obsessive. Is that the right word, I think,

with each scene. going okay this scene i was really good in that's that that's good that's going to be good this scene you know oh my god good in that yeah i think i was good in like evaluating every scene yes i go that scene i wasn't quite but i think it'll be okay because the one before i was good in the one after i was good so that'll bridge it yeah and then you know they'll see this and then this this should be you know i should be projecting all this stuff that i my therapist says if you can't control it if you can't change it yeah shelve the fucker just and what you're saying is enjoy the ride. Yes. One of my friends said, he had a movie that bombed. I mean, Rosen bombed. And he said,

I go, how do you feel about it? He goes, well, I thought about it like this. If I was the young me and somebody says, you're going to be the lead actor in a movie and you're going to direct the movie. Yeah. Would you even be thinking about and you're going to make money? Yeah. Yeah. And you're going to make money. Yeah. I mean, crazy. You wouldn't be thinking about anything, but just like, this is great. This is fun. Let's have fun. And there were moments on set where I was having fun and enjoying it in the moment. But we can't control that. And the more I try to enjoy what I'm doing, the process. Yeah. It makes life so much easier. It does. But it is a constant, you have to be intentional about it, you know? So now I'm trying to make decisions about what I do based on,

like, oh, I love this actor. This is a small movie, but I love this actor. I want to learn from them. I want to watch how this guy works. So I'm going to do this movie. It movie may be great. It may not be great. It may be a hit. It may not be a hit. But I know that experience of working with this guy is going to be phenomenal. Like I did this movie Stuber years and years ago. Didn't do well, but I met Dave Batista and we're still like really, really good friends. And it was worth doing that movie from just like that connection I made you know boy he's blown up huh I love it too I text him I'm like I'm so damn proud because I remember having conversations even on the pockets he's been on a couple times and you know when I saw guardians he was on smallville years ago

I did not know that and that's how we met and um one time I was at a convention and there was an announcement Michael Rosenbaum Michael Rosemom can you please go to the back somewhere And I go, yeah, I'm about to leave on a plane. What's going on? They go, hey, Dave Bautista really wants to say hello to you. And I go, okay. And I went over, and Dave's, he's at a little private table or whatever in the back. He's doing like a private signing or something.

I can't remember, but, you know, Dave, are you sure you want to see me? Yeah. Because I didn't really remember. He goes, you didn't remember. Yeah, man, I heard you were here. And you were always just so nice on set. And I just remember you're such a really good guy. And I just wanted to say hi.

Oh, man. And I just go. I love you? Yeah. I love you. Wow. And then I saw him, I think it was before that, when I saw him in Guardians, and it was really Guardians, too, his performance, I said, this guy's special.

Yeah. He's not just some wrestler who became an actor. He is working on it. Then I saw him and knock at the cabin. Best part of the movie was him. Yeah. Like he is consistently working, and he works hard. And I just love it.

I love seeing. his success. I mean, I saw, you know, what I've sort of learned. I'm always like, if I get to work with amazing people, what's my, like, takeaway? And there can be many. And with him, it was like, oh, working hard is cool. You know what I mean? Like, as a stand-up, you know, that's how I started. The whole thing of stand-up, at least the way we talked about it, was like, working hard isn't cool. You have to, like, it has to be effortly. It has to be whatever. I don't care. That sort of attitude was pretty big then when I was starting out. And that sort of seeped into it. though I think in my bones, I'm a very hard worker, but I didn't want to present as that.

But with Dave and the way he talks about acting in interviews, I was like, no, I'm a hard worker, and I like talking about my work, and I like talking about how hard I work. Like, I really fucking love doing this, and I want to give it my best shot. And so working with Dave, I really learned that he's so good in a Blade Runner, too, which I think is... I didn't see that. Oh, my... Do you like the original one?

People are mixed on it. I'm not really a Blade Runner fan. I mean, it looks amazing, but I'm like, eh, it's kind of boring. See, I have a lot of patience for like... Like the original Dune you probably liked. Yeah. I mean, the original Dune is a wild movie. There's like, you remember there's like a huge...

I haven't read the books, but there's like a huge brainfish in it. That's like fucking weird looking. And I was like, wow, why is that not in the new movie? And they're like, oh, David Lynch made that up. That was in the book. That's not in the book. And it's like one of the best parts of the movies is this huge crazy fish. Spina, Joe, our friend Joe Spina, he loves Dune, the original.

He's like, you're an idiot. You don't know what you're talking about. That's it. I've read the book. The original is brilliant. I like the new one. Yeah, I think the new one's fantastic. But the Blade Runner, you know, I have a lot of room for like ponderous, heady sci-fi.

So the original Blade Runner, I love it because no movie to me feels like that. There's like a couple of emotional beats in it. like when Rutger Howard's giving his like speech about as he's dying because the whole thing is like are these replicants human or not and then he gives this speech about all the things he's seen before he's dying and you're like oh that answers that question they can they can feel they're human I'm getting emotional thinking about it in high school I could I could recite that whole speech because I thought that that would get me laid and it it doesn't work It doesn't work.

It does not work. But the new one, I think what it does is it. All right, I'll watch it. It takes that world and it gives it a real, like, narrative drive. Like what you're saying, the first one, you found boring. I get that. It's very much like a tone poem. But the new one has a mystery at the center.

It really works. The story really works. It looks beautiful. Harrison Ford's great in it. Ryan Gosling's great in it. Batista's in one scene. He's great in it. I think it's a phenomenal movie.

When you talk about Eternals, and it wasn't the response that you were hoping, how did that affect you? Did it really consume you for a while? Did it something you had to get counseling on? Is it something where you took it to heart? Like, was it me? What was this? I knew it wasn't me. I think that there were a lot of things that went into it.

I love that movie. I'm very proud of that movie. I'm proud of everyone's working it, and I'm proud of my work in it. And I've seen that movie, you know, I've seen it a bunch of times because it's like, like my kind of movie. And I don't watch stuff I'm in a lot and a lot of stuff I'm in. I've never watched. It was really, really hard because Marvel thought that movie was going to be like really, really well reviewed. And so they lifted the embargo really early and they also put it in some fancy movie festivals. And they sent us on a big like global tour promoting the movie

right as the embargo was lifted. And so we had to like sort of travel the world while they thought we'd be going on a wave of raves, you know, and it wasn't true. It just sort of was, the reviews were really bad. And you were aware of it while you were on tour? Yeah, I was too aware of it. I was too aware of it.

I was reading every review. I was checking too much because this thing had become too much in my head because this was also right after the pandemic, you know, so we're coming on after this. crazy thing. And I'm like, okay, this is going to be the coming out party. I worked so hard for this. And everything's heightened. Your anxiety in life, everything's kind of like, and now this happens. Everything's heightened. And I don't know. I mean, I think that there was some weird soup in the atmosphere for why that movie got slammed so much. And I think not very much of it

has to do with the actual quality of the movie. Anyway, it was really, really hard. And that's when I was like, this is unfair to me. It's unfair to Emily. I can't approach my work. this way anymore. Some shit's got to change. And so very intentionally, I did start counseling. I still talk to my therapist about that. Emily says that, you know, obviously, that I do have trauma from it. I actually, Emily and I just got dinner with someone else from that movie. And we were like, man, that was tough, wasn't it? He's like, yeah, that was really tough. I think we all went through something kind of similar. And then this guy that I'm talking about is, has, is like, truly one of the best actors of our generation

and has been nominated for an Oscars since then. So I realized I can't be so results-based in my work anymore because I can't really control it. I can control my experience. I can control how I am to the people around me. I can control what I learn from it.

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two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. I, on a smaller level, you know, it was one of my first,

it was my first movie, really. And it was called Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil and it was with Clint Eastwood. And I played one, I had two scenes, but one was cut, but I had one big scene. Is that John Cusack? Yeah, I had like a seven-minute scene in the courtroom.

And I really love my performance and I really like the movie and the script was a bestseller, John Barron. I think that was right. Yeah, that was a big movie. But it, it bombed. And I was like, how am I in one of the only Clint Eastwood movies to bomb? How am I out of all his movies? It sucks, so, that this would have been a huge success, more people to end. And it just, but a few, if you casting people saw the movie and said, I like this kid.

And it helped me out in ways. But, you know, I was like, oh. And then, you know, I did many movies that I thought were going to be. And then they buried us or at the same weekend came other movies out. And then I look back and I go, I really love that movie. And I really enjoyed doing it. And the process was really fun. And that's what you got like.

You can't predict success. No. All you can do is strive for it. All you can do. And enjoy it. Yeah. You really have to enjoy it. We get to live our dreams.

I mean, it's, can you? Living our dreams, man. Yeah, we really are. And I know it's a tough industry, and there's a lot of fucked up about it. And a lot of it is based on how well things are doing and how well things aren't doing. But you can't control that and just be happy for the opportunities you have. I mean, this, all I say this, it's still a struggle. You know, I talk to my therapist about it a lot.

I talk to Emily about it a lot. And does she go, oh, come on, come out. I mean, she says I have career dysmorphia, which I think is probably a little bit, true. So I still have like that thing of like the underdog, like, I'll show him. I'll show them what I got. Yeah, we all have that. Now that's healthy. I think it is healthy. I think that's a good thing. Well, part of the thing for me that I have to a little bit, the chip on my shoulder about that specific thing is I'm a brown guy who's a comedy guy. And so it's very easy to get put into a certain kind of box. And then when you change the box, suddenly you're in a different box. And you're

like, no, the point is I don't want to be, I want to do shit that I, that like really, I want to really challenge myself and learn and do shit I've never done before. And it's hard because in this business, for the most part, you are looking for other people to like, see that in you to give you that shot. Validate you and kind of give you, yeah. Yeah, give you that shot, you know. And so to me, that's that. I just want to be like, all right, what can I do now that's like totally different from anything I've done before? Or what can I do that combines a bunch of things that I've we're learning the last few years in a new way. Yeah.

So I'm always, that's sort of how I try and make my decisions. Well, I think some people are, you know, they do a part and, you know, they're good at that part and they continue to do stuff like that and they don't have a big range and they get stuck sort of, you know. But with you, I think after you've obviously proven yourself dramatically and comically, comedically, comedically, not an English guy. Sometimes comically. sometimes comically. You've really done a good job. Yeah, but I was thinking about this when you're, you know, striving to be a comedian and going up every night and putting yourself out there, did you ever seriously think in the back of your head, whether it's ego or drive or aspirations or perspiration, like that you wanted to become a serious actor, that you were going to be a serious?

serious actor? Not at all. I didn't want to be an actor at all. I kind of fell into it. I think what helped me when I was doing stand-up was I never had a big plan in mind. It was always just like the next step is what I was looking for. So when I was doing open mics, I was like, I want to be booked on a show. And when I was booked on a show, I was like, oh, I want to be booked on the road outside of Chicago. And when I did that, I was like, well, I don't want to host. I want to feature now. I want to go from doing 10 minutes to 20 minutes. See, well, that's healthy. look at that back then you were going from step to step you weren't jumping steps exactly i want to be huge yeah i want to have my own net foot show and there were certainly people who thought like that

oh yeah who did get that you know but i never had a grand vision i just loved doing stand-up and i wanted to write funny jokes and wanted to do well and each time try and like take a little bit step forward and it sort of hurt me a little bit because i started i was in chicago for six years which is too long. I should have stayed, I mean, it's fine now, but I should have stayed there two or three years, but because I was just, I sort of got stuck in a rut a little bit, and part of it was because I didn't have any kind of, like, grand aspiration. So I sort of fell into it. I fell into acting, but when I look back, you know, my favorite, like, like Robin Williams is one of my favorites, right? And who's funnier than him and who's, I don't think there's any, I can't think of a stand-up

comedian who's pivoted to serious acting as successfully as he has while still doing comedy. Like he was kind of going back and forth. But his like serious performances are so good and so varied, you know, so as in my uncle always says, Rob Williams puts on a beard when he's serious. Yeah, he puts on that Goodwill hunting beard. Put the Goodwill hunting beard on. You're serious, but go ahead. There's a monologue he has in it where he's talking to Matt Damon. You see. Go ahead. you're you can do impressions i don't do robin williams but i'd like to i could hear i could see you know i could see his mannerisms i bet if i worked it i could do it yeah go ahead some people

have the ear for it and i could do a lot of impressions but not i don't i've never tried oh oh oh that thing um yeah he gives this monologue about you know it's a very famous one when he's in the park and he's talking to good will hunting and he's sort of like you know you know all these things like you've read shakespeare but you've never been in a war. You've never seen your buddy, like, die in your arms. You could, like, quote, sonnets about love, but you've never watched your loved one die of cancer.

I'm getting emotional talking about it. Oh, wow. Is this really, like, it's like a seven-minute monologue. And the first five minutes are just on Robin Williams' face. See how that affects you? You could see the tears in your eyes. Yeah. That really still lingers with you.

That performance, you just channeled it. It's so open-hearted, that performance. I love it. And it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, yeah it's hardly a performance because it just feels like he's just telling the truth and it's so magical and it's so interesting because he can do that which is very natural and very like open-hearted and then he can also do genie and aladdin which is very much a performance yeah it's so it's he's brilliant he really is brilliant i think one that you can pair to but i uh a lot of

people will say i'm kind of weird is jim carey yeah jim carey at times there's There's been moments in Jim Carrey's career that I'm like, wow, that was pretty impressive. Well, Jim Carrey, I think, when he was in his, like, comedy zone, I don't think there was ever been any comedic actor who's beaten that. When he was like, you know, Ace Ventura, Dumb and Dumber. The mask? I saw the mask again recently. Hold up? Yeah.

And you forget that it's mostly just him in a green, like, in green makeup. It feels CG, but you're. watching you're like, oh no, he's just doing that. He's moving his body like that. He's unbelievable. Obviously the special effects. The best physical comedian there ever was. I mean, you think of who's the, you know, Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin. So different, right? They're so understated. Yes. Oh, they're brilliant. They're about the tension between their body and their face. Whereas Jim Carrey is really the whole thing. And then, and then Eternal Sunshine is such a magical, one of those perfect. How about what's the other one where he plays the-

Man on the Moon. I've never seen that. Oh, I love Man on the Moon. Did you see that? No, you don't have a mic. Sorry. But you were going back to, you know, the comedian and being a comedian and taking everything step by step and like being this. So you never had that in your mind to be a serious actor. When did you realize and there was a moment where you realized, I'm good. I'm really good. Well, something's happening. I'm good. I'm good. I don't know. I feel. I'm trying to, I mean, I still don't have, I mean, you know, I really feel like I'm learning. I really am learning. And I can feel, I know the things that I, I don't know, that's a hard question to answer. Do you know you're good at least? Do you go, you know, I know I'm good without being ego. Like people tell you, but you go, I must be doing something right, obviously. I do know, and I know when I'm good and I know when I'm not quite as good.

And even if other people can't tell, I can tell. And I know I can do more that I haven't shown yet and that I haven't learned yet. Like I will sometimes, I'll watch a movie and I'll watch like a really, really great performance, you know, and I'll be like, I want to be able to do that. I think I could. I'd have to work and really, you know, but I'm like, that, I want to try and do that. I've done that where I look at someone and I go, there's three ways, maybe two. I'm just spitball in here. but the first way the first thing is i see some performance and i go i could never do that i

totally that is absolutely beyond the realm of my capabilities a lot of like jim carrie robin williams those like comedic well just certain performances that like yeah exactly and then there's sometimes where i go i could i could do that yeah i could really do that yeah like i'll be honest with you um it's not that i would be better it's not that i would you know for instance breaking bad but okay to say that you would be better no but breaking bad brian cranston i watch and i go he's fucking phenomenal could i do better no could i play a part like that fuck yeah how awesome i would fucking love to play that yeah the juxtaposition of good and bad and like yeah and just kind of comical at times and stuff i would fucking i know i could do that i know i could do that i know

know from the work I put in and my life, I could do it. What a great feeling. But I'm not saying I'm better than him or anything. I'm just saying I could play a part like that. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's how you feel, right?

Yeah, sometimes, you know, the hardest one, and this is me being petty, is when you watch a big thing and someone in a big thing and you're like, I could be better than that. Yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And I'm not talking actors at the level of Brian Cranston. No, but I do that, but I go like this, I go, I go, I go, I could. fucking, I could do so much better than this dude.

And then I go, but he's so much better looking at me. I mean, that's usually. That's what I usually say. That's part of it. He's just so much hotter. There's also actors who I find. Like, I certainly have my opinion on actors and acting. And there are certain actors where I'm like, everyone loves them.

And I'm like, I could see all the choices you're making. I could like, with that, I can see your script right now and what notes you've written on the side. You circle that. Yeah. And I could see. every like pivot you're doing to me the real magic which I aspire to is the I don't know how that happened and I think there was like maybe one take where you did that or or someone like Jack

Nicholson who could do take after take from what you read that is just as good and when you watch it there's no seams there's no like decisions or choices it's him just living expressing I think that comes back to what you said before to be able to be really relaxed and confident in what you're doing, knowing that you can do it and just being, because there are actors who I call mirror actors who look in the mirror the night before and do the scene to the mirror. And this is the one way and the only way they're going to do it. Not taking account in account the other people, because acting is listening. So when you're talking to an actor, your response could be different every time depending on how they respond to you,

like I'm responding to you. And that's all of it. That's all. That to me is. all of acting. And you have to be prepared to be malleable. Yeah. You must be present like I'm trying to do in life. But I've worked with actors. I've worked with both kinds of actors. I've worked with actors who are in a bubble where you start working with them and you're like, oh, you've decided you've got some target you're trying to hit. And each take, you're trying to hit that target. And I see what decisions you're making between takes. And I'm also seeing what notes you're getting and how you're taking those notes, you know. Um, those actors, sometimes when you watch them, you know, most people can't tell.

There's big actors who work like that, the big, very successful actors. But when you're working with them, it's not that exciting. What is really exciting is when you're like, I don't know what you're going to do, but it's going to change what I'm going to do, and that's going to change what you're going to do, and every take's going to be different. When we did the big sick, worked with Holly Hunter, right, who's like, one of the greats. One of the greats. Every take, all 28 days of our shooter, 26 days of our shoot, no, it was like a five.

five-week shoot. Every take was completely different. There's a big scene in it where her and Ray Romano, who plays her husband, have this big argument in the hospital and it's like everyone's got to be there, you know? They're like, they can't like really yell at each other. It's in the waiting room, right? It's in the waiting room. Yeah, yeah. One thing was interesting was they, so her and Ray rehearsed that on set, and they'd rehearsed already on their own 14 times because they're blocking it as they're going. And I'm also a producer on the movie, so I'm like, fucking we're going to go to lunch. What are we going to do? So 14 takes we do. 14 rehearsals, literally. And then Holly's like, all right, let's shoot. Because the whole time

we're like, let's shoot. You guys are so good. Let's shoot. Okay, let's shoot. And the 80 goes rolling. And she lays down on the floor of this hospital. That's a real hospital. And clothes is the eyes. And everyone's just like silently like looking at this. It's completely quiet. And she's just laying in the middle of the floor. Holy shit. What is she doing? What is going on? And I guess the 80s like cut, I guess. And for like five minutes, she lays there completely still. And then she wakes up and she's like, all right, let's shoot. And then they do three takes.

Each take is completely different. And she crushes it and Ray crushes it and it's great. And three, we make our day, you know. And then that was like one of the first days of shooting. So then a week later, and now I've gotten to know her, we're shooting the scene in the middle of the night where we have to eat. And I was like, I got to ask you, when you lay down in the middle of the floor, what were you doing? And she said, I'll just relax it. She was just forgetting everything.

You know what? I think that's so important. I don't think we tell ourselves or allow ourselves to relax before things. We're all intense. Cameras rolling. Make up there. All right, makeup out. You got to find that space.

You got to take your moment. Yeah. You take it. Actors ready. Give me a minute, please. Yeah. Take your moment. Get in the zone.

Yeah. Breathe. Do whatever it takes. I remember quitting Tarantino. watch this interview. And I don't think anybody else has ever seen this interview, but it was like a, it was on TV. And he goes, the, the interviewer says, what do you like with actors? What do you, what kind of a device would you give actors or something? And he goes, oh, excuse me, could you, could you zoom in? Can you zoom in my face? And the camera guy zooms in on him. He goes, listen, you guys don't know how much power you have. In an audition, it's your time. you guys it's yours you're bringing whatever it is and he goes off on this thing it's like this is and he filled me with confidence like this is you this is your power this is your time to shine you do it you want yeah and you know and he goes on about that and i was just like holy shit

like when you can actually relax and you're more capable i think of doing the things you want You really are. And I had this two things. One little quick thing when I was doing Chippendales, you know. I was working with Anna Lee Ashford, who's like one of the best actors I've ever worked with. And every take is different and exciting. I love that. There was a part where we have this big fight with each other.

And after a few takes, I was kind of just feeling a little bit stuck. And I didn't know what to do. And she's so good. And I was feeling a little bit stuck. And I was like, all right, I'm just going to, in between takes, I'm just going to touch this table. And I'm just going to really feel what this table feels like. I touched the table and I almost started crying because I had like sort of gotten locked down or stuck or whatever in my head. And you just really like that got me present immediately.

Yeah. The other thing I've noticed, you know, I started doing stand-up again during these strikes. So I've been doing it about a month and a half now. And it's interesting because I've learned because I had never learned to relax during stand-up. It was always like really tight and go. And I was found myself defaulting into that mode when I started doing stand-up again because it's the same like body memory.

You know, you're like walk out the feeling of the mic, looking at all the people with anticipation, the clapping going down. You're like, feel a little bit of sweat on your temple. What does that mean? I'm going to pass out. All that stuff. And this last week and a half, you know,

I do the old shows. I do Largo and those crowds know me. I can sort of be very loose and it's fun. But I've also been doing the clubs. So I've done the Hollywood improv and I've done the comedy store a whole bunch. And those places, they really want you to do tight jokes and they really are, you know,

it's a lot of tourists and stuff. So you really got to go and hit them. And so I said, all right, when I do these clubs, I would get so fucking nervous. And I was like, I'm just not going to be nervous and I'm going to meditate right before I go on stage. So it's the opposite. Instead of going out being like,

I've got to grab him by the throat and kill, it's the opposite. it. I'm not going to kill. I'm just going to go on stage and be completely relaxed and see what happens. You're like a python. Yeah. Just slowly crush it, slowly kill them. And it's, the reaction has been so much better. For the first time at like the comedy store, I've, I've been having like great sets because I go out and I'm like, all right, let's see, let's see how this goes and really lean back. And it's been really, it's been a great lesson in exactly what you're saying, which is like relaxing.

Look at what that says there. Just relax. Look at that. Perfect. That's your vantage point. Yeah. Perfect vantage point. Remember that.

What makes you happy? What makes me happy? That's a big answer. But really, the thing I love doing most is spending time with Emily. Me and her. Oh, come on. You made me cry now. Genuinely, like, at home, watching movies, playing video games.

Or what I really love is me and her going to a restaurant. like and just eating and just having a just the two of us for hours that's my favorite thing to do i honestly i'm not just saying this i love her she's the greatest i love her i really got to hang out with her the first time at james's wedding james guns a wedding oh she's name drop but yeah and then just hanging out with her here she's just so funny she's and she's so genuine it's unbelievable she just the you know it's amazing how like it's 16 years and you guys been together it's not amazing because I see you together. And it's just like, what I see is that you both just let each other have their moment and just do their thing and just let them be who they are.

She's one of those magic people. Like truly, and I say that to her and she's like, oh, you just love me. I'm like, I do love you, but everyone else sees it too. Other people see, she has that thing where people immediately connect with her. And she's so fucking funny. She'll just say things that I'm like, or she'll say something really profound. And I'm like poetic. I'm like, where's that from? She's like, oh, I just said it. I'm like, write that down.

So she has a document of just stuff she just randomly says to me that I'm like, write that down. Because she just has, she was a therapist, you know. So she has this, like, she understands people and loves people so much. And it's also just really funny and really insightful. And she's one of those people. I got a book idea for you. It's called Emily Write Stuff Down.

And it's a book of all the things she's written down over the years, profound, poignant, funny, ridiculous, you know. I'm trying to think what she said just yesterday that I was like, that's like two words, but I think there's no better combination of two words in this context that right now. I'd have to like look through my text. But she's just so, I'll be like, what's, what is you, is that, is that, you know, who quoted that? I'm like, I just said it. Is that anything? I'm like, yeah, that's like, the cool. listing i've heard in weeks you know it sounds like uh we talk about listening is the most important

thing obviously in that in acting yeah but i i i'm not married i'm single i'm you know i'm figuring it out just that's all i'll say but would you say that that's the number one thing in a marriage keep it healthy it's the hardest it's it's going to sound the most pat and the most like but the the most like cliche communication there is nothing listening and and telling each other what's really going on inside that's the most important thing genuinely because for a long time I would keep stuff from her like I mean like I have a job coming up I'm scared I'm nervous what if I can't do this what if I'm not good enough I just keep that inside because if I say it it becomes real I found if I just say it to her like hey just so you know I'm scared about

this thing coming up I don't know if I can do it it actually takes its power away and so really telling each other what's going on inside, by far, the biggest breakthrough we've had in our marriage is that, and it sounds so, like it sounds cliche, like I said, but you really have to be intentional about it. There was a time where we were like every day, both of us have to say three things to each other. This was when we went to couples therapy. Three things to each other that are vulnerable, genuinely vulnerable. And so we did that exercise for a few weeks and it was fucking great vulnerable yeah i i of course think of me saying that to someone yeah i immediately thought of like what would i say every day three new things that they can be big things or

small things sorry about premature ejaculation yeah sure that's embarrassing that's vulnerable it is um sorry for always crying during movies do you cry during movies no but you do i do i've started to no i i do i do cry i do cry i get emotional i get emotional when it reflects something that's happened in my life or it's parallel to things that i have witnessed as a child or as an adult and i can relate or victims or whatever or people in general when it's real it can be pretty visceral yeah i mean that's the magic of what we get to do right like when it's good you really have you're like people can see themselves you know emily says that she does what she does because she

wants to make people feel less lonely because loneliness comes from not sharing yourself you know and wow and and you see people going through the same things you go through look at this and you realize oh we have a visitor oh but finish that that was an important thought oh that is what a beautiful hold go go say a letter come out hi hi how beautiful come here how beautiful are you hi hi baby baby she's he all right get out guys get out get out get out in the middle of an interview are they like best buds hi the blanche is my beauty she's five look at this guy oh my god you know what this is a great way to end the interview isn't I mean there's no better way you have to you can't plan and stuff and then suddenly you can't plan this beautiful dogs

come out you're beautiful man this has been a real treat we come back again some time of course this is so easy it's so easy of course of course you're so open yeah I love you I love you, buddy. Bye, bye. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben.

And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and reveal the Grim. are wicked and grim follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform what else can you say about the guy i mean funny smart talented he's the real handsome he's all the things he's the real

deal that was a cool one that he's one of those guys that i've been watching for a long time also was cool to see him in the flesh and cool that he's you know a good good so good egg a good egg he's really a good egg i've had some good conversations with him and he's just got a big heart and a dark sense of humor too which i love yeah i like that you can just talk you know how his mind works it's uh you know you could say something so really funny and dark and then say something so beautiful at the same time and emily is a genius oh yeah his wife i freaking love her she's uh she and i have some good laughs uh thank you for for listening to that and make sure you follow us on our handles and all that at inside of you podcast on instagram and facebook

at inside you pot on the Twitter and support the podcast go to patron.com slash inside of you and join today and you can give back um you guys keep the show alive so whether it's a dollar a month or five dollars and whatever it is but the top tiers here give a lot and they get their names wrote out and other stuff so we're going to jump into that now we're going to do the top tier podcast shoutouts top tier patrons I love these guys and I love all my patrons so let's just do that. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Let's go. Why don't you lead us off with old Nancy D? Nancy D. Leah and Kristen. Little Lisa, Yukiko, Jill E. Brian H. Nico P. Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C. Jennifer and Stacey L. Jamal Eapj and L.B. Yes. We're doing a YouTube live.

So make sure you guys get on that. And my YouTube, a YouTube live is next week. And then we're going to, I'm going to schedule a Zoom with the top tier patrons. So you guys be aware of that. And also, if you send messages i know on google i don't check them often but um i appreciate them sometimes they're so long i can't really respond i just i but i do look at them and i do appreciate it if i don't respond you i still do look at them so um it's just hard to respond to everybody i get so many messages and i appreciate you mikey yelled on supremo 99 more hello dan hello 99 more santiago m i can't wait till glover gets a statue lian p Maddie S, Belinda, and Dave H, Sheila G, Brad D, Ray H, Tabitha T, Tom, N, Tanya, M, Betsy D, Rian, C, Corey K, Dev Nexon.

Michelle A, Jeremy C, Brandy D, Eugene, and Leah, Corey, Mel S, Christine S, Eric H, Shane R, Andrew M, Oracle, Amanda R, Kevin E, Stephanie K, Jor L, Jammin, J, Leanne, J, and Luna R. Mike F, Stonehenge, Brian L, Jules M. Kendall L. Jessica B. Kyle. No, that was still me. No, you were, whatever. I know, I was slow. Kyle, I was thinking of an impression.

Kyle F. Kaylee J. Brian A. Marion Louise L. Romeo the band. Frank B. Gentie, Nikki L. April, Air, M. Randy S. J.D.W. R.P. R.P. R.L.D. L. L. L. L.

Lorelei Lorelei Lorelei Nick W. Stephanie and Evan Charlene A Don G Jenny B

John It's just John Just John It's not just John It's John It's John It's not John It's John

It's John John Well John Jennifer R Tina E NG Tracy Junie Junie's relatively

new And Tasha S. That's some newbies. I love that people are like, you know, sometimes I look and I'm like, oh my gosh, I have another top tier or another patron and I try to send messages and stuff. So it's cool. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Thank you for listening.

As always, we'll try to bring you the best guests we can and give you the best conversations and hopefully it will help and hopefully you'll enjoy it. And thank you from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I am Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Taylor. We're doing this voice again. Yes, we are. We'll wait with the camera.

Thank you guys always. I love you. And just be good to yourself. I'll see you. Football season is here. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience. From the pros. One of the most interesting quarterback rooms.

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