Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Legends of Tomorrow’s CAITY LOTZ: Creatively Stimulated

Episode Date: June 7, 2022

Caity Lotz (Legends of Tomorrow, Arrow) joins us this week and shares her evolution from working as a dancer for Avril Lavigne and Lady Gaga to gaining the respect of her cast and crew as a director on Legends. Later in the show Caity sheds light on her opinion of Legends of Tomorrow ending and how the working conditions, writing, and morale on the show improved with time. We also talk about her first gig in Mad Men, her emotional drive to continue acting, and her desire to distance herself from the Hollywood scene. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Td Bank knows that running a small business is a journey, from startup to growing and managing your business. That's why they have a dedicated small business advice hub on their website to provide tips and insights on business banking to entrepreneurs. No matter the stage of business you're in, visit td.com slash small business advice to find out more or to match with a TD small business banking account manager. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Hey, thanks for listening. Ryan, it's a joy, always looking at you. That's nice. Thank you.

You're going out of town, so we're getting some work done the day. We're doing a couple of episodes today, a couple of ads, a couple of the... Yeah, no big news, better break. Yeah, that's true. What was I going to say? Hey, thanks for making our podcast, your podcast this week. I know there's a lot of choices out. out there, but you made ours your choice, and we appreciate that. If you really like this

episode, if you're a big Katie Lotz fan, we urge you to give the podcast another chance. Listen to it. If you liked it, why not? It's like, well, that was a really fun interview. I really liked that interview. Well, let's give it one more chance. Tell us the handles that you could follow us on, right? At inside of you pod on Twitter, at inside of you podcast on Instagram and Facebook. That's correct. That's correct. So follow us. There's an inside of you online store. You can get cool merch, autographs, all that stuff. There's my band, Sunspin. You go to sunspin.com for band merch

and all that stuff. I'm going to some cons. July 10th, 11th, and 12th, I'll be in Illinois, Metropolis, the Superman celebration. Tom Wellie and I will be there in Illinois, Metropolis, Illinois. It's really a place called Metropolis.

I've driven through it. Yeah. Yeah, it's off, what is that? Highway Interstate, the 80. I wouldn't remember that. But it's not too far from where I grew up, I don't think, either. I drove from Nashville back to California

through that way. Really? Yeah, it's fun. It's a good little trip. Metropolis, Illinois. It's in that bottom. I hung out with Margo Kidder in Metropolis, Illinois one year. We gambled together.

God rest her soul. But we're going to be doing the Smallville Nights. Supposedly we've already sold a whole bunch of tickets. So people are going to come see us do a show, a two-man show, which is a lot of fun. It's called Smallville Nights on Saturday night, June 11th. And I'll be signing June 11th and 12th, as will Tom. And then we're off to Australia.

Australia, yeah, down under might. So if you want to get tickets to come. see us uh will be signing autographs and doing shows uh june 18th and also in sydney and then june 25th in perth both those weekends and small little nights and all that stuff so if you're around also become one of my lovable patrons join patreon uh they support the podcast i love them they give back in many ways and there's like different tiers and you can get all sorts of cool perks and merch and go to Patreon p-a-t-t-R-E-O-N-com slash inside of you and I will message you back after you join I hope you become a patron anyway let's get into this episode I thought it was really

fun I really loved talking with Katie lots yeah I liked her lots she I bet you have I bet you've heard that one haven't you Katie uh it was really fun she was very open and I've been trying to get her for a while and our schedules didn't match up and we finally got her in-house right here in front of me it was it was a good time didn't you enjoy her she's great she was she was really fun she's sarcastic she's smart we talk about her directing her life uh we get personal we always do so without further ado let's get into katie let's get inside of katy lots it's my point of you you're listening to inside of you with my Michael Rosenbaum.

Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Well, something happened, folks, if you're listening now, you'll kind of, well, Katie, why don't you tell them what happened? The card was full. So basically we got, I think, what, five minutes and then... And Katie here, Katie, lots who I'm talking with she definitely saw the director in you because the first thing you said well let's just roll and let's just do it I saw this calmness about you that's okay it's a problem

let's solve it let's start recording let's do this again I could see it because now I know because everybody's like you know Brandon was telling Brandon Routh was saying what a good director you were and and I know it's something that you really love doing now and who who got you into directing What was the thing that kind of just where it took off? Well, I mean, I guess I shot a short film called Twin Turbo. Twin Turbo. Yeah, it was a fun thing. And then that got me into the Warner Brothers directing program.

And then after that, I was able to. And then it's shadowed James Bamford and our producing director, Kevin Mock. Um, and then I directed for one of the episodes of Legends of Tomorrow. What's it, what's it like directing? What, the first time you directed on set for Legends of Tomorrow was the first one? Yeah, first episode. Because you directed a couple, right? Uh, I've done three Legends and one Flash.

Jeez. Has anyone else in the cast done any or done more than you? Um, more, no. But, uh, Masey, who used to be on the show, she's not anymore. She's directed. and then Jess McCallin as well as directed. Do you have any other actors? I think that was it.

How did you feel like the first time I said, were you nervous? Be honest. Oh, I was so nervous. It was quite terrifying. Just because you're not sure what is fully expected you or what, you know, how to, how everything works. I think the most nerve-wracking part was always, when it came to blocking

because you're like, okay, and then everyone's just, you know, and you're like having to communicate with everyone at the same time. You're the director. All eyes are on you. What are we doing? Yeah, and you're trying to explain

to the actors like and hoping to try to, if you have some idea that you want them to do. And so you're, especially on legends, there's so many people. And, you know,

I like to design a lot of like camera movement things. I got it now. I got it. Okay. I got it. I got it, right. You sit. And it just, it kind of requires maybe specific movement from the actors and the camera. And it's kind of like a dance. And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. And it's just all eyes on you. And everybody has all the questions. And, you know, you're supposed to know all the answers. And it's. Do you ever say, I don't know. Let me think about it. You do. You don't have your ego. You put your ego, leave your ego at the front door. I think in the beginning, I was more, I didn't want to say, I don't know, because I didn't want to, people think I don't know what I'm doing. It would show weakness or whatever, right?

Yeah, or I just felt like, as the director, it is my obligation to know. And like, so I should know because it's my responsibility. And now, way more often, like, especially I noticed this time on Flash, you know, with, there was a question it would be, and I didn't know. I would be like, I don't know, help me figure this one out. Or what do you think? And I think that's also really helpful with actors, too, if you say, like, you need something or you don't know how to, something's not working, but you're not sure how to fix it. And to just be like, I'm not sure how to make this work.

Like, can you help me figure out this? And everybody then is also kind of then gets to shine a bit, too, so people can offer something that maybe you weren't thinking of. It's also like, because I got to direct, I directed a feature and I directed an episode of small and a short as well. And I remember the one thing I hated as an actor was when a director came, okay, so you're going to be over here and you're going to be over here and you're going to take your glass and you're going to walk out. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, bro. I'm not doing, I mean, let's talk about this. Yeah.

Why am I going there? What's my motivation? Not just because as a director, you go, he'll go over there. Yeah, yeah. And actors don't like that. I don't. Some don't give a shit. Some are like, put me wherever you want. I don't care. Yeah. And that's the hard thing, too. It's like you, it's different for every show and it's different for every actor. How, because some actors are like, just, just tell me, tell me where to stand.

Like, tell me where to stand. They don't care. Yeah. And like, if you get to like, it's like, don't stop. Just tell me where to stand. And then there's other actors who really want, like, the, you know, the reasoning behind everything. But, but yeah, I think it's, you know, Like, if you want the actor, go over there, then put some prop that you want them to pick up for something and place it there, whatever it is. Have you had toughies? People that you're just like, oh, my gosh, they don't trust me. Because in the beginning, when it's your first time directing, you're like, oh, Katie Lott, she's directing. Or Michael Rosenbaum, he's directing the episode.

The other actors, whether they tell you're not, are going, huh, can she do this? Can he do this? Do they have the, are they going to make my, is my performance going to suffer because they're not giving me what? I need. There's all these things that they're probably thinking. Yeah. I think I had built up a lot of goodwill with the cast and the crew. So it was it was a friendly set. And I think people, you know, trusted me already because they, they knew me. Right. There was definitely like, I think it was a little harder with some of the camera team. How so? Um, if them feeling like you know what you're doing and that you are worthy of being

in that position, uh, or are you just like an actor that's being appeased and getting this, you know, huge opportunity and it's not fair. Um, and people that have been in the industry for a very, very long time. And I think a lot of times too, if when you want to do something different than it's and people have been doing it for a long time and everything's been done that way for a long time it's like that's not how you do it this is not and it's like i know but this is why you know i'm here is so we can do things maybe try something different and um but it's also it makes sense you need to earn people's uh respect you might not have it right away but um but then you just earn it.

I know what it's like the first time you direct on an episode of with other actors that you've been working with. And I just, I was not going to do it. I was too nervous. I go, fuck, I don't know. I don't know if I could do this in my head. I didn't tell anybody else. I was like, you know what?

I don't need to prove myself. I don't need to do this. I don't need to. So I was starting to do that. And I walk into the makeup trailer and Steve Obin, who's the wardrobe guy at the time, wardrobe who I adore. goes, I said something. It was like, everybody knows you're not going to direct.

Everybody knows you're not going to do it. You're going to like, you're going to say fuck it. You're like, oh, really? That's, that's what it took. It took someone's disbelief in me. Is that the right word? Disbelief in me? It probably works.

All right, I'm fine. And I went outside and I go, you have to do it now. You have to prove to all these people that you can do it. And you know, prove it to yourself. And I felt like I, there were. You know, I felt like I knew how to talk to actors. I knew how to, you know, get good performances. But the technical stuff, you know, and you have this team around you.

Thank God. It's not like you're directing your first thing and you're like, the camera guy doesn't know me. I'm not, he's not, he's been doing these episodes. The lighting, the makeup. All these things are there for you to make it easier. Right. Mm-hmm.

So then going off and doing your own thing, it's, it's a little different because it's a little raw it's like you're hiring everybody oh my god it's so much yeah that that that to me the whole benefit of working in television is like you come on and you just get to be the director you're not having to produce and figure out like craft services and hire all these things it's like you just go oh i would love to have you know this prop or this set and then everybody's like great let's make it happen and like that team is already put together to just make those things happen which is amazing yeah have you had that moment where you're just like as many moments i'm sure as you had were like oh fuck i didn't i should have done this i should have done that do you ever do

you ever well go answer that you're going to answer that oh i mean yeah of course all the time i think when is it when does it occur to you does it occur to you on set sometimes it does occur to you when you're watching dailies um both i i don't i don't i don't i'm not a big fan of watching dailies unless I need to. Let the editor call you and say, uh, we need this. Yeah, I mean, I usually always have everything we need. It's just sometimes it's like, uh, that could have been, I'll think of some, a cooler shot later or a transition or something that I could have done that I didn't do, that I

wish I did. Um, which in, yeah, and I think, you know, part of it too is like you have to just like be decisive on things. and just keep moving forward and you don't have a lot of time. So that stuff when you're rushing and is just bound to happen. Yeah. How many moments do you have where you're like, I'm good, I'm fucking good. This was a good moment.

I was really a good director today. Do you have those moments where you feel very confident and very sure of yourself? Wow, you're really hard on yourself. If you have to think about this, you're incredibly. fucking hard on yourself. Well, I was trying to think, like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. No, maybe.

But I think I'm good at it. Like, I'm not to be like. You do. Somebody said, are you a good director? You'd say yes. You wouldn't hesitate. I think I do have, like, a knack for it. I think that.

What is it? What is it about, if you said, somebody said, why do you say you're good at? What is it that you think, why you think you're good? or have potential to be like you know uh we're all working hard you want to get better and better yeah i think i have a good balance of like right and left brain so i i can be very creative and and have all of those things but i also understand like getting things done in a certain amount of time and being efficient and uh all the other elements that come with directing that have are about you know leading the the team as well um being a leader on set so i think directing is very

much like you've got to have both sides uh not just being creative and not just being you know logistically figuring things out it's like kind of having both um so i think i kind of have both of those sides inside of you is brought to you by quince i love quince run I am. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices. Look, cooler temps are rolling in. And as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear non-stop like Super Soft 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters starting at just

60 bucks. Yeah, I'm going to get you one of those I think. I like to see you in a cashmere. Maybe a different color so we don't look like twins. Their denim is durable and it fits right and their real leather jackets bring that clean, classic edge without the elevated price tag. And what makes Quince different

they partner directly with ethical factories and skip the middlemen So you get top-tier fabrics and craftsmanship at half the price of similar brands. These guys are for real. They have so much great stuff there that you just have to go to Quince. Q-U-I-N-C-E. I'm telling you, you're going to love this place. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince.

Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E. dot com slash inside of you free shipping and 365 day returns quince.com slash inside of you inside of you is brought to you by rocket money i'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money period it's rocket money it's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions monitors your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings this is just some wonderful app there's a lot of apps out there that really you know you have to do this and pay for and that. But with rocket money, it's they're saving you money. You're

getting this app to save money. I don't know how many times that I've had these unwanted subscriptions that I thought I canceled or I forgot to, you know, the free trial ran at Ryan. I know you did it. That's why you got rocket money. I did. Yeah. And I also talked to a financial advisor recently and I said, I had rocket money and they said, that's good. This will help you keep track of your budget. See? see it's only we're only here to help folks we're only trying to give you you know things that will help you so rocket money really does that rocket money shows you all your expenses in one place including subscriptions you forgot about if you see a subscription

you no longer want rocket money will help cancel it rocket money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you the app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals they'll even talk to the customer service so you don't have do. Yeah, because I don't want to. Press one now. If you want, oh, get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions. With members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features, cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial

goals faster with rocket money download the rocket money app and enter my show name inside of you with michael rosenbaum in the survey so they know i sent you don't wait download the rocket money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with michael rosenbaum rocket money do you ever lose your cool um have you ever just been like shut the fuck up yeah yeah really but uh sometimes that to me it's not even losing cool it's just like what's necessary in the moment if if it's you know like things are out of hand it's like sometimes you have to it's like real things back in and if doing it like okay guys like okay guy everybody like isn't working like you then you got to do what works and is it do you find that you have different

ways of directing to different actors like oh brandon brandon could take direction I'll give it to him this way. I could be hard on him and he could just, he can go with it. This one, I need to coddle a little bit. This one, do you find that? Oh, for sure, for sure. It's kind of like, too, especially the, some actors want to know why they, you know, and they want that explanation and they want to get into the feelings and all the stuff behind it.

And other actors are like, you know. Just do it. Because sometimes, too, it's like if you need, say you want them. an actor to do the line facing turn like you want them to do the line facing this way right because if they turn over their shoulder like that you have a whole other setup you have to turn around yes and get that line and it's going to take you know and if you don't have that time you need them to say it that way and so it's some actors you're like hey we're going to get out of here way faster if if you play that line forward the actors didn't kind of know what they're doing they'll

say those things yeah i think a lot of actors who've been in tv for a long time it's they they can rationalize it and do it themselves easily other actors do not want to hear about camera don't do not it's insulting to be you know like hey can you throw that line like for this way for you know it's like you need to be like you know I actually think you know they you're so mad at them right now they don't even want to look at them and so you know it's like don't even like it's you can't even they don't even deserve your your eye contact you know whatever it is it's there was something i forgot like who it's maybe a cindy lameh book or but there was a direction about he needed the actress to uh fire a gun and she was doing it so

quick and it was like couldn't even see it but you could tell that actor like hey you're going so fast like we can't even see you so just you know um be up there a slow it down and be up there longer or you tell the actress like you need to make sure you really get a good aim because you can't just fire it without taking aim so make sure you've got you know you lock eyes before you fire and now that actress instead of being like boom it's you know she's coming up and actually has something to do motivation yeah which is such a gift because that then you know and if you can communicate something like that quickly i think every actor would prefer that then then the you know just being like camera need you longer because then they have to come up with their

own justification but it's it's sometimes hard to think of a concise way to say things and so a lot of times directors if you're like oh i'd you know because you don't want to look at that person and you know and it's too long um but if you can be concise about everything i think everyone would always prefer an action to you know kind of do you really love it i could tell your passion You're just like when you're talking about it when you're it's it just you could see it how much of a passion you have for it. I think I needed the challenge too after being playing this character for so long. Sarah Lance. Yeah, Sarah Lance Lance.

Sarah Lance. Sarah Lance. Sarah Lance. And I needed to be creatively stimulated and challenged and directing is incredibly challenging. stimulation it's i mean it's so much work um so much work it really is and i think i'm assuming it gets easier the better you get because you just you know you know yeah uh whereas right now it's like i really think everything through um and so it's just a lot of and and there's just some little time to do it too which is hard like i just directed an episode

so to flash and I got the script the first day of prep. So I read it and then it was like I had my first meetings for prep and it's hard because you get on those meetings and it's most of prep. Anytime you're in a meeting, it's mostly for all the other departments for you to answer the questions and give you all the information. And so it's like, okay, well, with this, like, do you think, you know, you're going to need like how many like VFX shots do you think you'll need for this? And I'm like, I have no idea. I literally just read this thing. right right and so you you got there's so much and it's you have to do like all of the work to know for me it's like I want to have time to do think everything through because you know

what camera equipment you want for the type of shots that you want or the the prop like everything has to be pre-planned because if you get there on the day it's like then you don't have the whatever it is that you need yeah you know one of my friends he was a producer on smallville I remember he said, I go, just give me some direction. Give me some insight because he's directed so many things. Greg Beeman. And he says, don't give an actor more than two notes at a time. And I go, why?

Most of them can't handle it. If you start, they start drifting off after the second one. They're, because they're thinking about the first and second. You're giving them too much information and you're not going to get it. Get these two notes. Be clear about it. Just go, hey, just two things. Do this.

Do this. then the next take you could say okay great get to that third and fourth thing it was a great note for me because i didn't want to overnote someone is that something you had to learn um i think in the beginning i was a bit more uh i i had a very specific vision of things like how i wanted it to be done and when you do have that then you have a lot more notes uh because you're trying to shape it into this thing that you want. Right. And I think as I started to do it more, I had less, I would have less notes because I was more just

working with what they gave. And I would only have things that I more really needed story-wise. Right. But yeah, I think it is, and some actors can handle a note, a lot of notes, some none, none. and especially like with uh blocking like if you need like that's sometimes really hard for people moving to places yeah uh while they're doing things yeah what about directing yourself uh that is i it's not my favorite to do uh to act and direct at the same time because so much of the work is like done when you're sitting there behind a monitor and and

watching like okay i got that shot i need still need this and oh that performance or whatever the camera move and if i'm on camera i can't see but they have they can't write you out of a show they need you in there um well in the beginning they they wrote me out and like gave me a lot of time and it was awesome i think i was like in one scene in my first episode and then this this last one which was for the hundredth episode when i directed the hundredth you directed the hundredth episode boy they must really believe in you for the director 100th episode seriously um that's pretty incredible it was cool it was i felt really lucky um but it was incredibly challenging because i was working a lot during prep i was in the episode before and i think maybe because the one before i was like oh you know

this isn't so bad like i can i could do this and but i i lost a lot of my prep time or i was trying to prep in between takes on set and so I just I didn't get as much time we had a late script and it was really technically challenging because we had like a lot of motion control stuff with with the camera and you know one actor playing two people I had a scene with like 16 actors in it it was it but but like I don't like I can't there's not a enough time. If I had enough time to go and watch playback, I would love it. Because I actually would prefer watching myself and I can go, oh, this would be better. This is the beat I'm missing or. I like that too. Yeah. And also, so much of acting is, is with the camera, what the camera

catches. And I think in the beginning, I was like to, I was very, you know, like, oh, it's just about being real and um and even now like i actually watched uh for we had my boyfriend and i were watching madmen to just see this like 60s we're trying to for something and you were in that and and we watched i and i couldn't i couldn't watch it i couldn't watch it but the like just seeing a little bit of it i was like wow i am completely unaware of the camera and which also i think is that good um i think there is a like a rawness that's that's nice to it um but there's also things where i'm like it would be better if you could see your face and you know things if you're you're looking down and you're because you're thinking or you're emotional and this is where you would be but it's like no one

cares it like can't see it no one right and so maybe that's what feels real but like this is going to come up so much better. And I think I'm having the, I used to like pride myself on being like, it's just raw and like, it's not about the camera. And but now I'm like, no, I think having the technical, being able to keep that with a sense of the camera is, is better. Inside you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me.

Because I use this, Ryan uses, so many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? How cool is that? Monitorers your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And you know what's great? It works. It really works, Ryan.

Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better. are deals they'll even talk to customer service thank god so you don't have to um i don't know how many times we talk about this but like you know you got it and they helped you in so many ways and with these subscriptions that you think are like oh it's a one month subscription for free and then you pay well we forget we want to watch a show on some streamer and then we forget and now we owe two hundred dollars by the end of the year yeah they're there to make sure those things don't happen, and they will save you money. You know, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total

of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget

online casino is live. Bringing Vegas-style excitement and a world-class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a seasoned play, or just starting. Signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best slots and top tier table games. Make the most of your downtime with unbeatable promotions and jackpots that can turn any mundane moment into a golden opportunity at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Take a spin on the slots, challenge yourself at the tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less? When you can go for the gold.

at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866-531-260-19 and over. Physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. The conjuring last rites on September 5th. I come down here with you in your house.

Hooray! Hooray! Array! Array! The Conjuring Last Rites, only on theater September 5th. Do you feel... I don't know,

the way you talk about directing kind of makes me feel like you're going to eventually gravitate towards just directing and not act. Do you love acting as much as you used to, or are you just, you found a new love? Or you think you can do both? I think I can do both. I always just follow whatever I'm curious about, like whatever I'm passionate about. It's always led me down the right roads. And I never thought I would be an actor. I didn't start even thinking about it,

really. How old were you when you started acting? I think it's 22. 22 when you start. Yeah. And how did that start? Well, I, so I came up to L.A. for dance, and I was dancing. And then I moved to Germany to be in this girl group. And so I was like kind of doing the backup dancing thing. And then I was in the forefront. And then I came back. And because I was like, and the girls still wanted to do like the senior group. Like, this is not, singing is not my gift to share with the world. But you could dance. And I could dance. And I went on tour with Avril Levine and like.

How did that happen? How do you just tour with Avril Levine? Do you audition for Avril Levine? Mm-hmm. So how many girls audition for an Avril Levine video or tour, tour? Tours are always like, tours are big ones for dancers. So you get a lot of people. I don't know.

How hard is it? How many, I mean, how many did they choose? How many? Well, maybe 20. Like, to go on tour? Yeah. Oh, not even close. There's like, I don't know, four girls and four guys.

So you were chosen at the four girls out of probably thousands. Yeah, I don't know how many thousands auditioned for April maybe, but. Did you like her? Um, not particularly. Really? Did you not talk with her much? No, she was very. she wasn't very outgoing

she didn't make much effort to connect though I guess I also didn't I've never been like a Hey let's be friends Yeah yeah so you feel like it was partly your fall Partly her fall probably no well I think I mean You've seen pictures where like she people fans pay like $500 to take a picture with her or something and they, like, have to be, like, two feet away?

You've you seen that? Only during the pandemic. No, I think this was not a pandemic thing. No, no, I'm saying in the pandemic I can understand two feet away, but. Wow. And I just kind of remember thinking, like, if you really, like, do not want to be around people that much, like, and don't want them touching you, like, then don't offer photos, ops, you know, like, where you're going to be like, give me your money, but don't touch me. Or maybe there's something. Who knows?

I don't know. Like, who am I to judge what her reasonings are? But that's just your experience? Yeah, she wasn't particularly friendly. And there was her manager or whoever it was at the time, there was like this just drama stuff. And they felt like we were leaking stuff to the press about things. And it was like, this is. And I didn't want to, she didn't want me another like blonde on stage.

I didn't want to dye my hair. So I was like in a wig. And I just was like kind of on, I remember like looking at myself, I'm on tour. I'm, you know, back up dancing after kind of more being in the front and I'm in the back and they're like, not very nice and have this wig on. And at one point I got an eye infection. I was like my had like my eye got infected and I had like a sinus infection. And you're like on a tour bus like this tour of life. They don't care. You're dancing. Yeah. I had like and it was like I remember I had to wear like my glasses because I had contacts and I infection.

And I couldn't, and I couldn't not have my glasses, like, glasses on. And so I was on stage with, like, glasses and this big wig. And I just was like, who am I? I don't even know. Like, this is not me. What am I doing with my life? And, and then I came back, and that's when I started taking acting classes. Because of the bad experience you had, you felt like I want to do something else.

Well, it just wasn't me anymore. Like, I wasn't this, I've, it's time for something new. And, um, these tours are mostly designed for, younger people young dancers who have a lot right so did you feel like I mean I was like 20 so that's pretty young yeah that's pretty young when you're doing it and you quit probably by the time you were 22 yeah wow um did you like it for a while did you like dancing didn't you go on tour or you did a video for lady Gaga yeah dance with lady Gaga I bet she was cool she was cool I didn't like hang out with her or anything but she would come to rehearsals and and put the work in and she was like

Lady Gaga all the time. I remember doing the paparazzi music video and it was like four in the morning we show up at the set and she shows up and it's like she's got like I don't know the you know she's full out already. She doesn't show up in sweatpants and like go get dressed and stuff.

It was like she arrived. Lady Gaga has arrived you know and she hasn't even gotten into the Lady Gaga look yet. So I was like but she's you know and she she worked hard and she really like showed up. She showed up. like, yeah. And I think that actually, like, I got called to go on tour with her. And I had

just started like my, my two-year Meisner program in North Hollywood. Sanford Meisner. Yeah. And I was like, I can't go on tour because I am in, you know, theater school. Like, I am in, I'm becoming an actor. And was your agent like, come on, what are you talking about? This is a big opportunity come on yeah it was i mean for as a dancer it's like that's the top but i look back of myself i'm like good on you like to like have that uh belief to like turn something like that down because i was like no i'm gonna be an actor now like well maybe it's that that sort of decision making which makes you a good director you know to be able to say no i know this sounds so appealing this but it's not right it's not right right now this is what needs to be done yeah i need to focus on this

So maybe that was it. What was the first acting gig you got? Madman. That was the first gig you got. That's the big show for your first gig. I remember going on to set and like, you know, kind of, I had no idea that because my acting school was not like for camera. There was no, it was like more theater type, just learning how to actually act and the craft

of acting. And they, and I remember like, you know, kind of doing it and then coming back and there's like all this tape on the floor and I'm like like what like what why why is why is their tape why is the tape on the floor and they were like those are your marks and I was like oh oh yeah yeah myzner didn't teach me about marks no no they didn't no same too where it was like you know we were drinking or something and they were like oh you drink on this line and I was like oh yeah but like and they were like you need to every time and the same and I'm like I have to do every time on the same line because I was so just like, I'm real and I'm in the moment.

Like, there's no. It's a lot. It's harder than it looks. It's like, you have to do all these things. Script supervisor keeps coming at you and go, yes, you drank at this line. Hey, you walked over here when he said this. Or like, your hand was open, not closed, you know? And so you're like, okay, yeah, yeah, fingers here.

And then like, and then you switched it. And then you're like, God damn it. Why did I move so much? How about I just, the best take. Just use fucking that. It gets so frustrating. Yeah, because, and you do it. so many times and from all the different angles and was it something that you but did you love it

enough and obviously you loved it enough that you wanted to keep doing it oh i loved it when i was even studying it i loved it um what was it what is it about acting that you really love i think i liked the i i got to feel things i got to feel everything anything and everything good or bad and i i don't not to say like like i'm an emotional person, but I'm very, I'm pretty in control of a lot of my emotions in life and can be quite even keeled in things. And with acting, it's like the, I love the up and downs of getting to feel things that you might not get to feel in life and in a safe place to do it where you're not like destroying your life by emotionally losing it. And I think for me

acting always was the my favorite part is when you're when you surprise yourself when you don't know what you're doing. So like you're in a scene and the way you respond is you surprise yourself and that being able to like the unpredictability of that and just the things like coming up it's like who where did that come from and it's like that and which is kind of you know what I learned in acting class you're doing scenes like that all the time and then when you're you're working in like television it's rare you get to kind of those are very special moments when you get to have scenes like that do you still take acting class you know I I took in like my last break I did um and then I I I I

I want to do another one. And I've been actually looking for a teacher and I've been reading like a few people's books and trying to find like what's what feels good. Because also like when you start to have your own way, after I started working and I got back into a regular scene study class, I didn't like it because, but it maybe was just this one. But it was very, it was competitive.

And like the teacher encouraged this like, I don't know. Competitiveness. Competitiveness. On and off the stage. You didn't like that. No, I didn't like that. It just, it was like there was a safe place and then she was taking away that safe place.

And when a teacher tries to like shape you into what they want, but it's like, you know, you need to always have that humble openness of a beginner and, you if you close off to like things you don't get better but there's some you can get shaped in a way that is not you know kind of what you want so it's like finding that balance and making sure you're with the teacher that helps with that yeah do you get nervous still do you get nervous auditioning do you get nervous on set playing a character before you start going is there always the nerves going or is it something that you can put aside and just focus on the work um on legends I don't get nervous anymore. Not at all.

Acting, no. Because also it's like you've got it. You could do it again and again. You know this character. And I know this character. But auditions, yes. And I think, you know, when I go on my next project

and I'm playing a different character, I'm sure I'll be. I'm sure I'll be. Every actor is right before the. get a part. They're always nervous as shit. I hear from the biggest actors and then once they do a take or something and just get it out

then they could kind of relax but they're all, everybody's the same. You just want to impress, you want to be good, you want to be on it. And I fucking hate nerves. Yeah, and it doesn't help your performance. It doesn't. It doesn't. Some people say it does. It gives you that energy gives you that drive, but for me it's debilitating

sometimes. It's too much. And just ultimately it's like just fucking listen. Listen to the other actor, which is something we all forget. Yeah. But when it comes down to it, that's the number one thing. Just listen to the other person and bounce off that person. They talk about that

with improv. They talk about that with acting. But I found that. When I'm not listening, forget it. You're talking a beginning actor. I could be really kind of like winging it, but it doesn't seem connected. And sometimes I've had like, I don't, I don't know what's going on. I don't know what's going on. The other actor goes, are you listening to me? And I go, fuck, do another take. I got

this just forgetting that I wasn't really listening I was thinking of my shit yeah do you deal with that ever um I mean for sure for sure I think we everybody does um and I think I'll notice that sometimes where oh you're working with an actor and it's like they have something that there was response to what you say and then like they repeat it but they repeat it as written not how you said it and you're like you're not listening not they or they or were the night before they were in front of the mirror running their lines and this is how i'm going to do it this is how i'm going to say it and you didn't realize by but it changes by the way you know you respond to other by responding to what the other actor is giving you that's why i really like myzner because it's all about it's all about that

it's the pinch out like uh nothing you you don't do anything unless something makes you do it and everything is off the other person and i actually i went into i think it was season six or something with and I had all my like acting icons and things on my trailer wall and you know and it was the whole thought of all of those things where it's like you don't do anything until something the other person makes you do something and nothing not self-generated and then I the first scene that I come on and to do they're like okay but like um we need your eyeliner tight so like don't actually look at the actor and we need to and it was like okay and all of these things that were just stripping away everything that you're used to doing

or or that make you feel like you're it's real and it's in the moment and because so much of acting is where you're like okay now I'm there's a dragon and it's flying and I'm I'm looking at it and it's like you're not looking at anything there's nothing actually there and you're having to self-generate things and so it can be hard to kind of keep that balance that is is hard um especially do you have to deal with a lot of that on legends like seeing things that oh this is how it's going to be this is going to be the cg i thing and you guys got to react to it and just trusting do you is there a lot of that yeah oh yeah for sure do you hate that um yeah i think so it's it's just harder it's so much easier when you have anything even if like

they give a laser pointer like that moves is like thank you so much because it's like everyone's trying to like have matching eyelines and in the same with with directors where like you're like please talk me through it give me something you know see i think i would be that guy i would be like it's it's just it's just a giant dragon in the sky follow that light and it's the fire comes out of its mouth and it's fucking just would you hate that no that's what you want okay good because i felt like i would annoy you but some some directors that if they don't some directors it's where they're like you're scared and now and it's like and they're like don't it's it's better to be like whar and you're like have anything anything to react to right do you get I want to know this because no I've never asked this one anybody like Brandon Ralph Stephen when you do the multiverse when you do flash batwoman um legends arrow you get the picture Do you get paid for extra when you go on the Flash? You get paid for it's an episode of...

An episode of The Flash. So if you're doing an episode of Arrow and at the same time you're going to do an episode of The Flash, their eighth episode and you're on your 15th, you're getting paid for a full episode on Flash and a full episode on Arrow? That's dope. Yeah. How many episodes do you cross over a year? Well, we don't do them anymore, really.

You don't? I think Flash did something. thing this year but the the big crossovers yeah but how many did you do would you say crossovers did you do well I mean in one year I what there was one year where I was on arrow flash legends supergirl and batwoman I think so how many episodes if you added all those episodes up how many would there be so like smallville let's say there's 22 episodes but if I did arrow and I did this ultimately I did 40 episodes of television you mean in like a season or in a season yeah I mean, this year, it was like I didn't do any other ones, but that season, however many we did on Legends, say it was 16 plus another five.

It's, you know, so it does, helps those numbers for sure. Wow. Did you like doing the Arrowverse? Did you like doing all that stuff, crossing over? Well, do I, so the crossovers, not Arrow. Crossovers, yeah. I'm not the most articulate when it comes to that stuff. Yeah, I mean, it was fun.

It was fun to go on other shows. and see how their shows work and see the work with the other actors for sure. But sometimes it sucked because there's just too many people and you're like feeling like an extra because you're just there

and you're like maybe say one line, you know? Yeah. But they're fun. Yeah. If you had to name your top five actors that you've worked with on these shows, who would have picked? Who's the first person you think of?

You just love working with it. No disrespect to anybody else. You love everybody. But if you're just like, oh my God, this person has just become a real close friend. Or I just love, there's something about working with this person. Nick Zano. He's just like, he's just such a gem of a person. I really like the way.

I really, I just like the way that his mind works, you know. And he's such a, he's just a sweet, really sweet person. I really like Nick. Cool. Yeah. How long is, is that will. legends last well i don't know we don't uh the they just announced early pickups for a few of the shows and legends wasn't one of them are you concerned or do you do you care um yeah i care it's interesting

like in in the beginning in the first after like season two or something it was it was so hard and like pretty miserable um that and i like wanted off i didn't want to do it anymore why was that we were literally working 14 hour camera days almost every single day and they we were not very well taken care of um that it was like LA there was nobody from LA no writers no producers anybody up in Vancouver so they had no idea what was the conditions were like on set and we had a few actors at the time that really did not want to be there um And there was, everyone in, in Vancouver was not in charge. They weren't, they, they had to just get it done, like what L.A. says to do.

Right. And so then the people that were actually there and could see what was going on didn't have the power to make changes. And like, they were just beholden. And so it, and then there was a lot of like, just, it wasn't very good. And then the L.A. started sending people up, like a writer up, and to make that bridge. And then we got a producing director. And that helped a lot. I don't remember where I was going with that.

Yeah. Oh, the pickup was. Oh, and if I wanted it to go. Yeah, exactly. If you wanted to go. But now, everything is. Worked out. Yeah.

Everything is, it's much more, the working conditions are good. All the relations are good. when gets along, has a really nice time. We like the writing a lot. It's a family. Yeah. And we were proud of the show. You know, I think there's times, too,

where we didn't like it was like, oh, what are we doing? And the show is its own identity and it's, you know, the writing's good. Everything is, it's fun. So I would love for it to go for another season because also I think it sucks to end it like that. Right. after so so many episodes and you know such a long time and cw is you know historically always told a show when it's on its last season so that you can do it justice and and wrap it up and give it a proper you know ending yeah and i i think everything's there's like you know there's

the cw they're selling the cw so that's changing things and um but i really would love to do another season to like you know end it properly i wanted to and it's cool that you feel like that a lot of people are like oh we've done enough we're like you know i'm done at the end of seven seasons small but i was like yeah what else could i do i'm done i don't want i want to go off and do something else i've done this i did this i my contract's over i want to you know but to say yeah i'm ready to go back that's that's kind of cool and i think too is because i'm directing it also it's yeah like a I don't know. I want to go back.

I'm going to take what I've learned from directing on a different show over there. I think it's different, too, when the, I think, tell me from Mom, but I feel like you, you feel like they respect you, the powers that be respect you. And there's something really important. I mean, that's incredibly important. I never really felt that. I just felt like, you know, your, your gun for hire. And I just never felt that love from the crew and cast, I did.

But from, you know, I just never felt. There's something so, like, demoralizing about it. it when you don't and that's in the beginning i felt like that too right and it's like and there's just this feeling of like they're pushing on you that you have no power and like you were going to do what we say and it's very yeah it's that that's not a good feeling like you said earlier but you just don't have control it's not you have no control over what's going on stephen emel i asked him about you what can you tell me about katie she is the og mask wear and the Aeroverse, the original gangster.

Please tell her to move to Austin. What do you mean by that? I just went to Austin, actually, this weekend. I've lived in L.A. for a very long time now, and I mean, I'm a SoCal girl. But I, lately I've just been feeling like I kind of want a change and I want an influx of like new people, new, I mean, I love my best friends and most of my friends are here. So that's the only hard part. But a change of pace, a different atmosphere, something.

And I want to be a little more removed from the industry, I think. Like, I love the creating in the industry. But I think it can become an echo chamber of things and less, you know, new ideas and new inspiration when you're just in it all the time. And that's all you know. Right. So I've kind of exploring the idea of maybe like going on a. some feeling a call to adventure all right uh lastly this is this is shit talking with katy lots this is the these are the fans okay rapid fire you just answer them if you don't want to answer

them you don't have to but this is these are my patrons i love you guys go to patreon dot com slash inside of you to become a patron and support the podcast i appreciate it you get to ask these questions uh raj what were some of the non acting jobs you had to take on while trying to get your career going uh i was dance teacher you were yeah a dance teacher did you like it um yeah i did for how old how old people are older no younger younger kids little kids how older were people older people younger but i started uh dancing like in getting jobs as a dancer when like my when i was 17 so i was able to financially support myself through that mostly um or fully Zach p what has been your favorite thing about playing

Sarah Lance I mean her evolution is so cool and I think being able to go on such a journey with this character

for different things and especially being able to get her like I loved being seeing her become happy too is really nice and yeah I guess the evolution

cool Michelle Kaye what's the biggest challenge you're facing right now that's a tough That's a great question, Michelle Kay. Yeah, Michelle Kay. I mean, my life's pretty good at the moment. Like, if you'd ask me, knock on wood.

I think I went through a really hard time, as probably most did, like at the beginning of the COVID, aside from COVID, and have come out of that much better than ever before. So I'm feeling in a pretty good place. my what's my biggest challenge um maybe leaving l-a could be one of them i don't know it's a tough question sometimes when questions are really good i'm like i got to really really like think about it and have a good answer but i guess on a smaller sense trying to get some schedule like a routine into my life a healthy routine because I've I've just been so on the go I'm never in one place for a long time to be able to get healthy habits and I'd like that's that's a big challenge for me right now yeah like what do you do for your well-being what do you do you are

a big advocate for exercise and activity I mean what is it you do to keep your mind straight um so i journal that's like a big one every morning a journal and how long however long i feel like sometimes i write like a paragraph sometimes i write like three pages wow um but and it's just like dumping things but i i think i think it's really important to take some time to reflect on your life and and think about your life because if not it'll just go in a direction you have to take aim like you have to curate your life uh and i think journaling is something that really helps me feel like i'm active in being a creator of of my life and how it's going and and who i am and i think a lot of times we just get swept up in in the momentum of things and the

next thing you know it's like a year has gone by and or 10 years or 10 years and have you done what you wanted to do, are you, you know, going in a direction you want to go? Are you the person that you want to be? And that was a big one for me learning when I was going through that hard time is like the, if you, you can be whoever you want to be, like just start doing the things that that person would do. Like, you want to be the person who works out every day, then just work out every day. Like, just do it. Like, start doing it. Yeah. Yeah. It takes one step at a It sounds so cliche, but like you have to start somewhere. It sounds so overwhelming when you're like, I have to do this.

I have to lose weight. I have to do. Yes, if you think about the whole thing, but tomorrow or right now, do it. Go for a walk. It's those little things that just add up, add up to get you where you want to go. Small manageable goals. Yeah. But you just do them.

And like the more you do them, the smaller things, you're like, oh, okay. And then you're proud of yourself. feel good about yourself, you know, you feel good about who you are, and that gives you more strength to do even more things. Last question, Nico, what do you consider to be your acting role model? Who? Whose career you'd like to emulate a little bit? Hmm.

First person that comes to mind. Charlize Theron. So I might say even saying her last. Yeah, Charlize Theron. Yeah. Strong woman, too. Very strong. Yeah.

And does like a nice mix. of big blockbustery things and also like incredible indie um indie films are you know direct features do you want to direct features

that's what you want to transition into that yeah I think there's a creative freedom and like that you get in a total world building that you get to do with with a film and the time to like really really like

craft and curate it and have that. Yeah. Control. Control. Control. What song was that? Who sang that? Janet. Control. You don't know that, Ryan? Janet Jackson. That's because he's really young, although you're young. Yeah, but Janet Jackson. Yeah, Janet Jackson. It's the mustache, Ryan. I think it's the mustache. He just trimmed that. I know Florence Welch. We can talk about that. Yeah. I know her. This has been great. Thanks for being so open and honest and just really cool. I mean, I had a really good time talking to you. This is cool. Yeah, thanks. It's nice talking you too.

Thanks. There you have it. Another episode in the can. I hope you enjoyed it again. If you really liked this episode and you enjoyed listening to Katie, I urge you to stick around next week, give the podcast a chance. We're always trying to get new listeners, new people to come on board and spread the word, spread the gospel, if you will.

You know, it's important. So, again, our handles are at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook and at Inside of You pod on the Twitter. Ryan, get anything going on? I mean, I'm just traveling a lot, finally. You are traveling a lot. Yeah. You're going to be exhausted.

I am. Are you going to be grumpy when you come back? I hope not. Yeah, I hope not either. I hope I get a little respite, get a little clarity, see a little different part of the world. It's not my apartment. You're going to Ireland. Not yet.

Not yet. Not yet. Yeah, France, England. Spain. trying to pack it all in in one pack it all in might be too much fun that might be too much fun yeah i think you're gonna have a great time but i think you are going to be exhausted about a week into vacation i'm kind of like i want to go back home i just want my bed i want clean clothes i want a hamburger just want my own shit you can get that anywhere yeah i guess you know you

sort of can almost anywhere it's probably a parisian a parisian um uh hamburgers probably expensive. But it's tasty though. But it's tasty. I'm not French bread. Brioche bun. Brioche bun. Ooh. La la. Sassee. Hey, check out the inside of you online store if you want some cool merch. We got Funko Pops of Lex Luthor and scripts signed and lunchbox assigned by Tom Welling and myself and a bunch of other stuff,

Tumblr's inside of you merch, blah, blah. And I forgot to say in the, well, maybe I did because we'll do it again. But join Patreon. My lovable patrons, if you go to Patreon, dot com slash inside of you they support the podcast in many ways there's different tiers i send merch boxes blah blah blah check it out i'll send you a message after you join uh patron dot com slash inside of you so i think we should get right into it we should get into the top tier patrons let's do it let's do it let's do it here we go give them shoutouts nancy d lea sara v little lisa ukeko jill e b brian h i just saw bryan h at the umd concert i went to a

concert OMD orchestral maneuvers in the night I touch you once I touch you twice I got the shirt on you have the shirt and I saw Brian A good to see you Brian Nico P Robert B Jason W Kristen K Raj C Joshua D CJ

P Jennifer N Stacey L Jamal F Janelle B Kimberly E Mike E L Don Supremo 99 more Ramira San Diego M Chad D W W is correct LNP Maya P Mattie S Belinda and Chris H. Dave H. Sheila G. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom N. Liliana A. Talia M. Betsy. Hi, Betsy. Hi, Chad. L. Richelle. Marion. Meg K. Trav. L. Dan. Um. I don't remember. L. Close. M. Closer. Yes. It's Dan N. Big Stevie W. Angel M. Rian and C. Corey K. Super. Sam.

Nexon Michelle A, Jeremy C, Andy T, Cody R, Gavanator, David C, John B, Brandy D. Yavor, Yavor. I met Yavor. I met Yvore at a con. Sweet man. Yvore, it was a pleasure meeting you. I met I'm at a convention. Camille asked the C, Joey M, Willie F, David H. Omar, I, design, OTG. Our good friends Eugene and Leah. Chris P. Nikki G., Corey, Nicole, Patricia, Heather L., Jake B. James B. James B. Bobbitt, Joshua B, Tony G, Megan T, Mel, S, Orlando, C, John, B, Caroline R, Rob, E, Paul, C, Christine S. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes, Christine, yes. I just want to keep saying it. Sarah S. Eric H. Spring. Jennifer R. Shane, R. Shane spelled S-H-A-Y-N. I've seen it. Shane R. M. R. Mark M. Jeremy V. Andrew M. Robert G. N. This is a difficult one. Z-A-T-O-I-C-H-I-77. A new one. Zatuiti Zatoichi

77 If I messed your name up I apologize but I love you You're awesome We'll figure it out We'll figure it out We'll get there I'm sure you'll send me a message

It's saying this is how you pronounce it But I mean how the hell would I know how to pronounce that But I'm glad you're with us Again thank you for listening to the podcast I hope you enjoyed it today I don't have too much to say I felt like today in today's podcast It was you know it's just like hey

Let's get into it Let's do it let's listen i hope you enjoyed it um i know some people say oh you seem a little like you i don't know there's you didn't have much to say you want your jovial self but i am i'm just a little tired i went to that concert last night and i just feel like let the episode speak for itself you can't be on all the time it's ridiculous it's hard to be i mean could you imagine though if i was just like this hey um sir ryan um yesterday i was uh well i don't think anybody would want to listen heard me like that so that's why i pick it up a little bit see that's why i talk like that's why i

you know but i am me i am myself damn it i love you guys thank you for allowing to be inside of each and every one of you thank you for um choosing our podcast inside of you with michael rosenbaum as your podcast this week continue to listen follow uh and i thank you from myself michael rozenbaum in the hollywood hills of california i'm ryan tanis over here also in hollywood hills of california that's correct a little wave to the can Cameron, Ryan. Hey, guys, be good to yourselves. Please be good to yourselves. You are all you've got, really, at the end of the day. All right. We'll see you. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would

you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this. edition that we're at it. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacking Benjamin's follow and listen on your favorite platform.