Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Mental Health Week (ft. Zachary Levi, Sandy Daignault, and Ellen Wasyl)

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

Zach Levi, Sandy Daignault (LCSW) and Ellen Wasyl (Chief Possibilitarian®) join me tÏhis episode for our first ever Mental Health Week. With this pandy throwing off everyone’s routine and tossing expectations out of sorts, we thought an episode like this would be a helpful check-in to maintain sanity and take a pulse on our mental well being. We talk about the idea of being responsible for your health during these times regardless of your responsibility for the situation itself, the idea of being together while in isolation, and how to overcome anxieties that plague people day to day. Plus, we get a special check-in from a friend of the show that I think you’ll enjoy. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Good morning. If you're listening early, if you're a early riser, a Paul riser, you just feel like you wanted to listen to my podcast first thing, hear my voice. I appreciate that. I like that maybe we're the first two people, I'm the first voice you're hearing. I hope I'm. That'd be pretty cool. You know, I mean, it's hard not to, you know, talk about the elephant in the room.

I mean, obviously, it's been a little crazy. The world's upside down. And I have hope. I just, I do. I'm just going to say it. Stay positive. Try to love a little more. Try to understand.

You know, you get sort of in these situations where you just, you start to spiral. I've talked about that. I get ahead of myself. I get anxiety. and great because today we have amazing guests. Guests that I, they prove that therapy works because they were my therapists. One was my life coach when I went to a facility, Privy Swiss. And they don't really, they don't ever need publicity at all.

They don't, you know, I really ask because I really love this place so much that I just said, hey, can I talk about it? And so, hi, Heidi. Thank you. My friend, Zach Levi, good friend. He's been in the show a couple times. He's an advocate for mental health. You know, he's going to do an intro here in a minute. I get to talk to him.

And he went there, and then he talked to me. And finally, I figured it out, and I had to go. And you'll hear all about that and talk to these two amazing women, Sandy, Daniel, and Ellen Wessel, who you'll be watching and listening to, are two amazing human beings who genuinely care. And I think, for me, it all starts. starts with safety. If you're scared of going to therapy or you're scared of, you know,

tapping into the unknown or maybe things that you, you know, that you haven't tapped into and you know that you want to just feel better and be better and have a better outlook on life, it's important to feel safe. And I feel like Privy Swiss gave me that safety. I opened up. I was so vulnerable.

I became a different person in a good way. I mean, I just, you know, safety is so important. And these two women are phenomenal. Hey, guys. Also, I say it all the time, but it really helps if you're listening and you love the podcast. You want to keep hearing it. I'd love for you to just send an email to people or go to our social media handles, follow, write a review. All that stuff really helps. And I say it all the time because I want to and I enjoy the show so much. And I hope you do. And if you are, maybe you can contribute by getting other people to listen. I don't know. Just a thought. I just want to give everybody my love out there and say, hang in there. And, you know, you're hearing that every day with this. news and you know it's uh the corona virus is rising again and there's a second way well you see these dipshits on the fucking in the ozarks and you see them everywhere and you know people don't want to wear masks and i'm not even pull this isn't political this isn't politics this is just stupidity okay i mean if you're listening going hey i think everybody out you know can

understand that it's not even about you wear a mask so i don't have to get your shit just follow the rules everybody's like oh man i don't want to what obey anybody i don't want to do i'm like hey what are you obeying you're saving lives maybe let's just we're figuring this out nobody has the exact answers i mean but i i try to listen to scientists people who are smarter than me which is a lot of people um i found myself uh protesting one day a few weeks ago and uh i never really protested per se and i just you know i i just walked and said hey I want to walk with all these beautiful people who were trying to make change and it was peaceful

and I immediately got fucking emotional. I mean, the second I just was with a part of something that was just trying to, you know, it was just, it was so important. It just felt it was powerful just to get and walk with people and hear their love and their passion and their sadness and their emotions. I encourage you to feel.

When you're watching TV and you're seeing these, I don't think you understand as much. Get out there. Feel it. Talk to your neighbor. Talk about it. Try to have an open mind. I want to give a shout out.

These guys aren't even my sponsors, but the fat scooters, they're friends of mine. They'll probably come back on board sometime. But they just sent me this awesome freaking scooter. So this is good news. I'm getting into good stuff. This awesome scooter, I'm telling you,

I left the house. I had them to design it because I'm a big Warriors fan. You know, the movie The Warriors, old 70s movies. And they decked it out. And it's just, it's just amazing. And not only that, but, you know, they don't want me to commend them. But one of my buddies, my good friend, Preston Christensen, Preston, it's Maude Michelle and Chris. I met them at the Ronald McDonald House.

And Preston, as you've heard me talk about, is going through chemo and he has cancer. And he's an unbelievable dude. I love this guy. So creative, so smart, so awesome. I love you, man. And they were like, hey, let's get him a scooter. They sent them a freaking scooter. So I brought it to them.

And it's just like, that's, you know, they're really cool guys at Fat Scooters. And Peter and Drew, thank you for that. And Preston thanks to you. And check out Fat Scooters.com. They're phenomenal. And they didn't even ask me to say anything. I'm just saying it because I love them. And every time I get out of the house and ride a scooter, people are like, where did you get that?

And they're, you know. The other guy is my good friend, Mike. He has this vodka called Poppo Jays. He's just a buddy, and it's amazing. And let me just say something about it. Here is the, here's a little bottle. I just want to give a little shout out to my good buddy. Again, not even a sponsor, just a good buddy.

Popo Jays, vodka. Yeah, he gave me a case of it. Shit, if I'm going to talk about it, right, Mike? It's vodka. It's like vodka, only different. It's made out of the nectar from the flowers of a coconut tree. It delivers smooth, crisp taste, perfect for cocktails around the rocks. A lot of history there.

It's a great company. You need to check it out. I mean, it is, it's really amazing. And they're going to give you a code here. PopoJ's.com. Go to popojs.com. P-A-P-O-J-S dot com. And look it up.

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It's like you're at the beach when you drink some of this stuff. What else can I tell you? Thank you to my patrons. You know I love you. We talk a lot. We did a private YouTube live. We do a lot of those where they request songs

and I play them and you have these chats. It's pretty amazing. And I just really enjoy it. It's my community. community my my my peeps over at inside of you on patron if you got a patron and you want to be a patron join because a lot of people become friends and it's pretty awesome and there's a bunch of extra stuff that you get for you know if you like the podcast you get cool extra stuff and also the other patron I have is with john heater if you like horror movies and that's called where have all

the good horror movies gone and john and i do that and that is a blast look into that we want we tell everybody we're going to watch we watch it uh we talk about it we have a rating system it's a lot of fun So those two patrons, uh, that I really, uh, freaking like. Also a big thanks to Omaze and, um, my friend Amy Malin raised a lot of money here. Tom, Kristen, I from Smallville, we did this. We raised a lot of money for, for the Ronald McDonald House of L.A. And I'm really proud of that. And I'm happy and thank you to everyone who donated, everyone who, uh, is just listening to

the podcast and supporting my, my passion and, um, you know, Thank you. All right. So someone who went to this place, Privae Swiss, which we'll talk to these amazing therapists in a moment. But first, Zach Levi, who I've talked to before, he got me to go to this place. He didn't really get me. I got myself, which he'll probably talk about. But we're just going to talk to him for a few minutes.

He's so insightful and he's such an advocate of mental health. And he's so open and honest, which helped me be open and honest and get my ass to a place where they could help me a little bit. So, uh, uh, Zach Levi. Thank you for coming on. I know you're just a big advocate for mental health. You talk about it. You're open with it. It's just great for people listening.

You've been on the show twice. I know you're going to interview my ass. Oh, yeah. I'm going to get all up in your ass. Oh, inside me. But today is, it's kind of special because we're having a mental health week. And, um, you know, I know there was a mental health month just passed and I missed that. I think this is as good a time as I need to be talking about mental health.

I love it. it. And it's safe to say where you and I both went to the same place, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we went to a place called Privae Swiss, which you told me about numerous times before I finally said, all right, I'm going to do this. And it did change my life in many ways. I mean, and I know it changed your life in many ways. So I said, you know, I asked people that I still talk to, and that's Ellen and Sandy, behavioral therapist and a life coach and sort of get an idea and understanding about, you know, what they think in this environment were in. And, you know, what did you get from, you know, from going, from just from your experience

ultimately? Well, I mean, I got so many things. And I think that, you know, as with any therapy, it really just depends on what you need therapies that you're ultimately going to get out of it, right? Like you and I could have, we both went to the same place, but both of us, while we might have some crossover in some of our, you know, reprogramming or things that we needed to be done, in our lives. We might have had some similar issues. I'm sure we had very different ones as well. So what you take out of therapy is what you bring into therapy and then decide to work on

in therapy. And, you know, ultimately what I took away from being a previous wish was my own life back. I didn't ultimately want to live, which led me there. And then I left there very much wanting to live and very much being hopeful about what my life could be after having been awakened to a lot of, not all, you know, because there's still a lot of therapy for all of us to do throughout our lives, but awakened to a lot of what my major malfunctions were and where they were rooted in my past, in my family, and my mother specifically, my stepfather, how they treated me, my father, not being around, forgiving myself, the empathy that you build for, yourself when you learn how to do that and then how that then translates to the empathy you build

for your abusers because at the end of the day I think one of the biggest revelations I took away from all of it and when I continue to champion or try to champion even now is people are doing their best even the let's say quote unquote worst people in the world are actually trying to do or think they're doing their best given the world that they were brought up in the programming that they received, the reality that plays in their head through their eyes, through their ears, you know? And we're all, we're all just traumatized, all of us. We don't realize it. We've all been told that, you know, trauma is like either massive physical trauma like a brain injury or massive psychological trauma like you went to war and you were fighting in

the trenches. But what we now know in modern psychology is that trauma is a massive spectrum of very intense moments that happened to us throughout our lives. Subconscious. Some people do. Some people, like if they hear somebody, I don't like yelling. And you're like, well, where did that come from? Not that everybody likes yelling. Yeah.

And we don't even really think to unpack that in our life. We just assume that, well, that's just who I am. And look, there's all kinds of parts of us that we are, I believe, inherently, deep down in us. It was, in fact, one of my biggest fears about going to Preve Swiss was, or really any kind of intensive therapy was that I was afraid I was not going to be me when I left. and nothing could be farther from the truth. Not only was I me when I left there, I was a better and healthier and stronger me.

I still had all the same desires and passion that I had when I went in there. It was only amplified and made more clear and more strong for me to go and I think approach and attack the mission that I think God has given me in my life and what I want to go and accomplish and I'm continuing to want to accomplish.

So I took hope out of my time there. I took, you know, taking back again my own worth in life, things that I didn't realize I was struggling with. I didn't know that I didn't love myself. I didn't really understand even the concept of self-love. I thought I did. I think a lot of people think they do. I don't think most people actually do.

If you love yourself, you don't speak ill of yourself. You don't chastise yourself. You don't hate on yourself. You don't speak down to yourself. And I did that ad nauseum. And I didn't think twice about it. And I did it because my parents did. And they did it because their parents did.

And they did it because their parents. And breaking that cycle is the hardest thing in the world to acknowledge saying this is wrong. This is why this doesn't work. How do I change directions? And it's not easy. And it's like you got, like you said from the beginning of this, you've got to want to do it. What you put into it is what you're going to get out. I mean, you cannot go in there thinking, fix me.

I think that's the notion of everyone believes that you look at help. And they're just going to give you all the answers. The answers are there. The more you allow yourself to be vulnerable and open, at least for me, then I have a better chance of just finding out what's causing certain things that are going on in my life. Yeah. Yeah. And look, at the end of the day, as someone who is of a, let's say, a spiritual Christian ilk of sorts, it's what I grew up with and I've read my Bible, you know, a good bit.

And I feel like so much of the ethos that Jesus was talking about are very much the things that are ratified, that are validated, within modern psychology, meaning if you want to live heaven on earth, if you want to have life abundant right now in your life, there are some very key things to getting there. And one of them is forgiveness. You have got to forgive yourself. You have got to forgive yourself. You've got to forgive everyone else in your life.

It'll kill you inside. It'll kill you thinking that there are some set of rules that everyone has got to be following. and if you've been following me, I mean, that's one of the things that was driving me crazy. I thought I was following the rules. I thought I was doing right. I thought it was, you know, doing what we're all supposed to do and called to do. Like, you know, it's still, not that it still doesn't tick me off sometimes when people drive like assholes, but, you know, like my road rage.

I would get so frustrated with people that were taking advantage and it would cut in at the last second, like, you know, going over Laurel Canyon. I was just going to say Laurel Canyon. Yeah. You know, like all of that stuff when I would get so agro and because I hate. that people weren't being fair and they weren't they weren't playing by the rules whatever the hell rules i thought that we were supposed to play by and by by the way everyone has a different opinion kind of i mean we all different countries have different rules we there are some rules that we all kind of agree upon but i mean even those aren't all entirely agreed upon right

and people all come from their own backgrounds and their own traumas and their own abuses and their own fears and their own insecurities and we have got to be able to look at the child i mean this is modern psychology 101 it's inner child work it's it's restorative healing work that you need to with your five-year-old self, really any age self of yours, but in order to forgive yourself and have grace with yourself and love yourself. And these are all age-old tenets that people have been trying, like Jesus, have been trying to tell people forever, forever.

Because if you can do that, if you can go do the work on yourself and realize that it's not your fault, very similar to what Robin Williams says to Matt Damon and Goodwill Hunting. You know, it's a powerful scene. And Robin Williams basically just saying, and over and over again. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It's not your fault. It makes me cry just thinking about it. I know. You know, that is the truth. That is the truth. And if we can look at every single person in this world through that lens, through a lens of love and

compassion and grace and empathy and forgiveness, ourselves starting with ourselves, and then allowing that to go out into the rest of the world, if we can genuinely care, about every single person know that they're acting out, their anger, their frustrations. I mean, look at what's going on in the world right now. And both sides of this argument are looking at the other side going villain, evil, monster. Instead of saying, hurt, lost, scared, child of God. That's how we come together.

Ultimately, you know, we're all work in progress. and you're always a work in progress. And I know that after Privy, I know that something happened dramatically in your life and you got Shazam and it happened. And it's like, you know, and it's not saying like, hey, go to a clinic and Bob and then when you're done,

you're going to be, you're going to hit the jackpot. That's not what it's about. It's about going to feel better to learn how to love yourself, learn how to be a better person. And I think, you know, I was just so lost. So thank you again. I mean, you really, you really,

you got me to go and it changed my life. No, no, no, no. I know. I got me to go. I did it. Yeah. You got you to go. you dance around it like you were saying earlier

and you would kind of check in what about this place and I'd tell you some and then you know sometime will goodbye and be like hey man tell me about that place again and we talk about it but that's the thing like you know it's a beautiful and still true to this day adage you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink

nor should we try to make anyone drink thank you for this this is important and I will always be open and available to talk about mental health and my love for you any time. I love you, buddy. Love you too. I'll talk to you soon. Zach Levi.

Great dude. I hope you like him as much as I do. I think we should probably get into this. We have two guests today and they're going to talk to you about, you know, this is a world we live in right now that there's stress and anxiety in the world before this. And now this new COVID thing and, well, it's not new now. We've been sitting in our effing houses for quite some time.

But, you know, and then you get the protests. and all these things. It's a new level of anxiety. And I can't even imagine how a lot of people feel who are really, really into it, especially African Americans who are dealing with this. And, you know, I used to think, you know, I want to relate. I can relate to it. I watched this documentary 13th years ago. I called my friend Chris McDonnell crying. Chris, remember that? I was like, I don't understand. I never understood. No one could possibly understand. It's true. you can't. And all you could do is try to empathize or sympathize or just try to understand and just be a human being. That's it. There's nothing else to be said. Just be a human being. I think that's well said, Rosenbaum. Probably not. So today in the show, we have amazing guests. We have a life coach who's a lot more than a life coach, Ellen Wessel, who I met at Privy Swiss. When I went away, I said went away. Sounds so dramatic. Executive and life coach at Privy Swiss, an executive coach in chief possibilitarian of the possibility experience.

I love this quote. She does. She didn't create this quote, Ellen, you quoted someone else, but I'm going to quote you who quoted, if you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you. I like that a lot. Then we're going to talk to Sandy Daniel. I want to keep saying wonderful because these women are wonderful. Change my life. Licensed clinical social worker who brings 25 years clinical experience and a reputation is one of the top dialectical behavioral therapists in Connecticut. Her resume is just ridiculous to both of these ladies. And they're going to give you some insight. And I hope you'll learn something. I think you will on this very

special week of Inside of You. And without further ado, let's get inside Ellen Wessel and Sandy Danio. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Do you have pants on? I just saw your knee. Yeah, I have pants on. It's shorts. Because you warned me last week that you may not. It's shorts. I am wearing, I'm glad we started with that.

I'm in California. Hey, you are a life coach, right? It's right. So I think, you know, I could tell you what's going on in my life, whether I'm wearing pants or not. It's unconditional. Most of my listeners would probably not be shocked if I wasn't wearing pants. I've seen some of your Instagram.

Have you? yes so are you thinking that therapy really didn't pay off did it or it really did or it really did you know that's that's the thing so ellen wossel thank you so much for being here uh you help me so much at privey swiss and i always you know i always think of you we've talked we've kept in touch it's just awesome to have you here and i think the world needs this right now it's this this health week i call you know i always say health as wealth and if people could listen to a few people who do this for a living and know what they're doing and know what they're saying Then maybe they might get something.

Maybe they might get something from this. That's all I want is you're giving back. I'm trying to give back. And thank you for allow me to be inside of you today. My pleasure. That's what we say on the show. Love it. Okay.

So in a nutshell, life coach, what does it mean to be a life coach? Like if somebody said life coach, what does that mean? What would you say that means? So it's all about development, right? I'm always curious about what's going on in your life right now. Where are you? And where do you want to go? right and and what's getting in the way what challenges what opportunities what

curiosities do you have what is it that's blocking you from getting to point A to point B and so it's all about curiosity it's all about possibility it's about really teasing into that so unlike therapy which has got a healing agenda coaching has a development agenda I want to help you get from point A to point B okay well that makes perfect sense but now I don't thinking your education, maybe it did. Maybe it was one of those things in there. There was a class called coronavirus pandemic that said, okay, we're going to learn what to do during a pandemic. But people might say, well, how is a life coach going to help me now? Like during all this. Well, I can say why. But, you know, why do you think it's so important? Yeah. So, you know,

this is, it's unusual times, right? We're not prepared for this. You know, bad stuff happens in our lives and hopefully less of it than more. And, you know, usually, we kind of figure out how to get through it, but the more of it is and the more, you know, grand scale it is, it's so overwhelming, right? So it's like people just forget. It's like common sense. People forget what they need to do to get through. And maybe they've never done anything on this scale before. So it's about having somebody kind of go through the journey with you to kind of share tips, give you some ideas, ground you a little bit, and to share some real practical advice about how to keep your wits about yourself, right?

And to take care of yourself, right? Well, how do you, what have you noticed with clients that you're talking to now during this whole thing? What have you noticed the biggest issue is? Yeah. You know, so every week it changes. So most people are in like week seven, week eight right now. It depends on where you are geographically and what's going on in your local areas, right?

But, you know, I've watched people really go through the shock and awe, the, you know, trying to wrap their heads around what's going on. Then there's just, you know, every day is a new normal and trying to make sense of that. And then, you know, the last couple of weeks, I really say it's really been about grief, right? And it's, it's grief over what we're no longer able to do. You've got kids that can't graduate from college. You have people that can't get married. You have, you know, people who are passing away and you can't go through those rights of passage of, you know, burying your loved ones. So there was so much grief. So last week, this conversation would have been very different because I just feel that it was that great epicenter of grief.

This week, I feel like people are starting to really think about what comes next. I really feel like people are starting to step into possibility. They're starting to curate curiosity, creativity, and they're starting to think a little bit more about, okay, what comes next, right? And so it's helping people, like holding that container for them to be in that position of wonder and to start thinking about, maybe my kids are going to go back to school early. Maybe my business is going to reopen. Maybe I actually will have a paycheck again, right? So people are starting to think about what's possible for them.

So this week has been very different than the past weeks. And that has been the reality of coronavirus. People are on a different curve of change and they're grappling with the unknown. and kind of going through that morning process, if you will. So what do you do if I said, you know, what do I do about the unknown? I'm a teacher and or let's say I'm a, you know, I work at this local business and it's closed. So, you know, what can I do? What can I?

Obviously, it's a difficult question because it's like, you know, I have to make money and that's not exactly, you know, the easiest. No one has the answers exactly. But I mean, how do you talk to someone that's just, you know, dealing with that, which are a lot of America. A lot of people in the world. It is. And it's a lot of my clients right now. And so I'm going to go back to the word that you said is the unknown. How do I deal with the unknown? And, you know, that kind of practical, pragmatic is when did you ever know? Right. Like, how is it that we have come to look at this as this control? We're needing to know what comes next. And when did we ever know? So there's been a predictability to our lives. You know, you get up every day,

you do your thing. And, you know, unless something tragic happens. you know, there's a pretty good chance that your day is going to follow a normal credence, but we never really know, right? So my first thing is, let's get real about not knowing. I know it's uncomfortable. You're not supposed to like this. This is not normal, right? So don't even try to be comfortable with it. Don't try to like this. Like, it's okay to be really upset, uptight, uneasy right now. But you never knew. You never know what the outcome of something is. so let's think about what we can control right let's take your power back so who do you want to be in this right who do you want to be on the other side of corona when this pandemic quiets down what do you want to

notice about your life who do you want to be as a result of this right there's been so much time now where people are they're isolated they're connecting in different ways they're reassessing things are getting back to simplicity. Like, there's a lot of cathartic moments where people are starting to really think differently about their lives. And to be honest, we're not going back to anything, right? People say, oh, I just wanted to get back to normal. It's going to be a new normal.

So I think, you know, a lot of people really struggle with change and the unknown. And that is the reality of this. And so what we can control is how we show up. Who do we want to be? right I know you want to work I know you want to make money I know you want to go back to school I know you want to send your damn kids back to school right like I get all that what's within your control so it's a day by day practice right and what have you found that is something that you have control of like what is it that you sort of the advice you give to like hey this is what

you can do because there's obviously you know people always think I can't do this so that's it without that I can't so they fall apart you start to see them fall apart obviously having a routine, I would assume. That's what I always think, right? Absolutely. I think right now the most important thing is self-care, right? You know, thankfully, so many of us are not on the front lines. We're not health care providers. We're not, you know, first responders, right? That's a totally different response. But for most of us, we're taking care of our family members and ourselves. And so self-care, we've got to take care of ourselves before we take care of others.

So one of the first things is to have a gratitude practice, to think about something positive, right? What's good in your life? Starting your day off with something that, you know, you can hold as true, right? The sun's out, the grass is green, you know, different things that kind of buoy you in the morning. Kind of get you going, right? So thinking positive, right? Checking in, taking your own temperature on mental health. How am I feeling today, right?

Like checking in on yourself, what are my habits? Am I eating too much? Am I drinking too much? Am I not moving my body? What's getting in my way? Right? And then being really clear about what do I need? What connections do I need to create?

Right. Being isolated doesn't mean we have to be alone. Right? So how do we connect differently? And I've really seen people move through that process and get really creative. Right? But we have to almost do that every couple days, if not every day. you know there's clients where i'll talk to them one week they're great they've got this they

you know they've got plans in place to doing great and then three days later they fall apart right because this is overwhelming yeah well i think people uh you know especially if you have a family you have putting kids through school or whatever the situation is your only job was a bus boy at a local restaurant and now it's like you're waking up going well how do i stay optimistic about this how do i you know and it's all i'm guessing it it seems like the mind is the most important thing, like keeping your mind strong. I mean, we could all fall apart if we allow ourselves to. Like you were saying, you know, the routine, the, you know, you said, what are you eating? What are you drinking? And I'll tell you right now, I, so many freaking excuses, I'm like,

it's the pandemic. I'm going to have pizza again. And I'm going to have a soda at 10 o'clock with caffeine. I wonder why I can't sleep, you idiot. And then you'll realize that and you go, oh, damn, I need to stop doing that. And that's where I'm seeing people right now, right? You know, it's like, yeah, we could be doing all these amazing things to take care of ourselves and we're not because we're resisting, right? We're a little bit angry, we're depressed, we're anxious, we're fearful, right? All of these things do not allow us to take really good care of ourselves. It's like counterintuitive, right? Yeah. So, you know, allow yourself to have the bad day is what I say. You know, I said to somebody earlier today, you know, if you need to eat another pint of ice cream,

like just do it, right? You're in this cycle right now where you're still, really, you know, struggling with what's going on. And she named it. She's like, I'm grieving. I'm like, then eat the ice cream, right? On the other side of this, a week, a day, a month, whatever it is, you're going to be fine. And that's what I'm telling most people. You're going to be fine.

We're going to be okay. And that brings me to another really important thing is ask for help and be willing to receive it, right? Yeah. Whether it's calling a friend, calling a health care professional that you've worked with, you know, talking to a group or community, so many gyms and studios and places that are usually filled with community that they're making this accessible online for free, right? So ask for help.

Let someone know you need something and then be willing to receive it, right? It's okay to accept help. Yeah. It's not like there's one person going through this. There's millions and millions of people around the world going through it. So obviously there's different degrees of it. There's, you know, obviously you go down to people who are homeless when you thought things can get worse.

It's worse. There's all levels. But that's not to make your, you know, you don't make your level insignificant because it's not as bad as someone's. It's still some, it's a change that you're not used to, right? It's something that you. And, you know, no, I think that's important. I think that understand that you're not the only one going through this and you're not

alone. I think we all feel alone and we forget that, hey, everybody's going through this. Some people are more fortunate than others. you know what I learned from you is one of those things were it's not like you told me you were pretty you're so straightforward but it's it's things to get rid of like okay I explain something to you and you go okay I wish you could listen to yourself just now explain that because it sounded like all that all that is stress could you get rid of that do you want to do that why would you is that I'm like uh yeah but then I disappoint other people that was always

I remember what I said to you. And what is your response always when you're like, oh, I don't want to do that because it's so stressful and I don't really, I'm not enjoying it as much and I'm doing all the work, but I don't want to disappoint someone. Right, right. How do you respond to that? How did you respond to that? Like, what is it serving in you, right?

Like, when we do these things, we get into these habitual loops where we've done something in the same way forever, right? And you stop and you look at it and you ask yourself. what is this feeding in me? What is this serving me? Right? The answer is never anything good, right? Torturing ourselves, beating ourselves up, limiting ourselves, right? It's such a punishing nature. So I always say, what is the cost of letting this go? Who are you without that thought, that activity, that habit? Right. Yeah. Who are you without that? It's the power of no, too. it's like when you really don't want to do something learning how to just say no say i'm not going to do

that because it's it's going to take time from the things that i really want to focus on and that's hard to sort of understand right you and i think i do that still in my life where i have so many things and i'm like you don't have to do all these things in fact you're wasting so much time with this that's not contributing to your mental health or your physical health or any part of your health so i remember like looking at you and just having these conversations with you you without you forced like saying this is what you need to do it was something that you just you allowed me to really take it all in and sure it took a couple of weeks before i said i'm letting go of this i'm letting go of this and i'm letting go to this and i think i called you oh uh two weeks after i got

back home and i said hey i got rid of this and i got rid of this and i did this yeah i remember exactly what those things i know and we don't have to talk about them no we do not but it made my life easier. It was just a weight off me. It just helped me so much. And I think that was, uh, I think that we tend to do that a lot. I think people want to make, they want to appease. They want to, I want to, I want to, I want them to, I want to, I want to, our ego loves that, by the way. I remember one time years ago, somebody said to me, oh my God, like you, you show up is the capital, like, yes to everything, right? And I was like, yeah, I am, right? I was burned out. I was stressed out. I was over committed, over-caffeinated, right? And I was like, wait, why? Why am I saying yes to

everything? How is that even possible? Right? And so it's, it's discernment. It's energy management. It's time management. It's resource management. Like, we only get so much of those things, right? And if you give it all away, what's left, right? You're exhausted. Exhausted. Exhausted. And I remember when you let some of those things go, nothing happened right yeah like nothing i didn't lose friendships i don't lose friendships i didn't i was i think that's a thing too how you handle things right uh just saying i love you i this is too much for me and i know that you'll understand because you care about my well-being right and if they don't then that person was never that important to you really at all anyway it comes down to

we don't need to ask for permission or give justifications for our decisions, right? Like if we choose to give some context, it's out of respect, but we're not required to, right? Just a simple no, I'm not able to. Thank you for thank you, we know thanks, right? Like, we don't have to go into these long, drawn out diatribes as to why we did or didn't do something. And that's what we tend to do, right? Yep. And then we end up saying yes anyway, because we kind of convince ourselves in the conversation that, oh, yeah, I should just do it.

Like, just don't do that thing. Free yourself up. And I think that's what's going to happen, honestly, for a lot of people as a result of this pandemic. We're going to get much more clear about how we want to spend our time, how we want to work, who we want to spend our time with, you know, the quality of connections. you know, all of this, this discernment, as we start to turn the lights back on and we start to do this differently, I think we're going to make really good choices for ourselves. Keep, by the way, this right here, I think is the most profound. This is the most important thing we're talking about.

And I didn't know how we got there, but we got there and that's all that matters because I don't have you very long. But, you know, when this all ends, life will change. Things will be different. Right. But now, I think we've had so much insight into, you know, isolation and being alone. And you really have had a lot of time and may have some more time to think about what is important in our lives, right? Is that what's important and what's not important?

Get it the hell out of there. I mean, you think about it. It's just such a trickle-down effect, right? You know, so think about these companies where thousands and thousands of employees have been working at home, right? how many of them need to come back? What if there's different ways of working? What if there's different ways of, you know, educating our children? Like here in the Northeast, there's never an excuse for a snow day ever again.

I'm sorry. Like, I feel bad for those poor little kids because who doesn't love a snow day? But we know how to do online learning now, right? We know it's winter. We can have a lesson plan ready. Like, these kids never have to have a snow day again, which means you don't go to school until July. Like, you actually get your summer back. because you didn't chew it up on snow days, right?

Like, we are learning how to be resilient, how to use our resources and to be creative so that life can keep going on. All of this is an opportunity to do things differently. That's absolutely right. We've had so much time. I think all the time, you know, we waste all day. I have friends that, like, just when I thought I'm wasting my time,

I'm like, get off your video game. Get off your fucking couch. What are you doing? And it's just like, wow, that's, I can't do that. I can't waste my whole life. This is, we have so much time. What am I going to do?

And I was nervous about this. I know it sounds pretty stupid, but like, for instance, how am I going to do podcasts? I just go in and I talk to a mic and Ryan does it all and he uploads everything. And I'm like, well, if I want to do something I love and I think that helps people and I love and helps me, I am going to do this. And I, you know, and I have to sit there and go, okay, well, I got to learn this camera and I got a focus on an inanimate object and I got to make sure it's in focus on both cameras. I got to make sure this is recording and I got a whole soundboard and I got to

record and I got to upload you on this thing. And I'm like, you know what? Wow, I could do that now. That is really cool that I could do that. And I wasn't expecting to do it. Hey, I'm just a fucking talent here, Ellen. I don't need a fucking, but you know what? I can do it. Everyone else knows that. But I can do it. And that's just, it's, it's fulfilling. It's, it's, it's something that take this time. People, you know, I'm going to learn how to play guitar. Hey, I'm going to do, you know, I don't like my job. And I know, I don't want my job. And I know, not working right now. So let's take online classes. Let's do something else. So I can start applying for things when they come out that I can do something else. This is the time that you've

always asked for if you, if you think about it. People have always said, God, if I just said, you have so much time. All right, look, go ahead. And that's our choice, right? That's the choice. How do we want to use this time? How do we want to use this to our benefit? And who do we want to be on the on the flip side of this, right? Yeah. So much possibility, right? As a possibility, what do I say? I believe that everything that always, anything that happens in light, everything, is either a gift or an opportunity for a new possibility, right? This is just ripe with possibilities. Amen, sister. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions from my patrons who are amazing and support the podcast. Mary, for the life coach. I'm a child of the 60s in my 60s, and I'm going

through an identity crisis. My husband of 37 years died in 2018. 2019 I had a double mastectomy then she said discovered smallville I was on chemo but that's another story mary I've been teaching since 1988 I've been mrs broke up for more than half my life but now I'm sort of being pushed into retirement I don't know who I'll be if I'm not mrs broke up anymore most of my friends acquaintances really and even my therapists are related to the school where I teach I don't have anyone to complain to I put on a happy face because of the crisis I've lost my classroom, which has been my refuge, refuge, and being forced to learn new technology, which confuses me.

Sounds pitiful when I say that inside of you has become very important to me, and Michael Rosenbaum makes me smile. Thank you. So what would you say to someone, like Mary? That's a real tough one. I mean, that's a lot of change. It's a lot of disruption, right? And so I think that's where really digging deep to see, you know, what are those

opportunities to maybe ease into. that technology a little bit and think about what she wants to do with it. It's something that makes her uncomfortable and that's my first clue. Anything that kind of makes us a little uncomfortable is an opportunity to grow, right? She's stretching herself a little bit. So it might feel a little scary, a little foreign, but that's the perfect opportunity. Maybe lean in in the safety of the environment that she's in. She can't fail it. Right. And that's where you can ask for help. You know, whether it's, you know, a neighbor or one of her girlfriend's children or like young kids know everything about technology. And so there's an opportunity to maybe get on a Skype or Zoom and

talk through some things and share the computer a little bit and just like get a little bit more familiar with it. And for fuck's sake, Mary, you're in your 60s. You're not in your 90s. I love you lady. I mean, I know you. But come on. You're not old. Just, you know. And you said it. You said it though. You said go at your own pace. Take your time with it. Don't get overwhelmed because that's, I do. You have to do this. I'm overwhelmed.

I'm going to push it away. I'm going to push it away. Just slowly get in there and start getting dirty. And you'll find out, huh, I figure that out. And that will give you enough confidence to maybe figure the next thing out. I mean, it's all about doing, man. And we never, we all do the same thing. We all wait and procrastinate.

We can't do it. We can't do it. But most of us, we can do it. And I think about learning some new technology compared with losing her husband and a double mastectomy. Like, she's a badass already. A little technology, she can do it. Right? Let's put that in perspective, right?

Yeah. Angelina Gonzalez, in my late 20s, and I feel very stuck in my life right now. I have a degree in photography, but it's not my passion. Honestly, I don't know what my passion is yet, and I want to do more with my life and just get up, go to work, repeat. But I feel like I'm too old to start over, i.e. go back to school, considering I have rent, billing, blah, blah, blah. I feel like this is a young person's world. Not a, you're almost 30. We want you.

What? world. I'm very discouraged, but hey, I'm not knocking you. I'm just saying I'm a lot older than you. What steps or advice would you give to someone in that position? Now, this is something that comes up all the time, the sense of purpose, right? Like, you know, somehow she got into photography and now she's doubting that that's her passion, right? So, okay, that's good. Make peace with that and be creative and explore. If you don't know what you're good at or what you're passionate about, ask your friends, right? Ask them, what do you think I'd be good at? Be amazed by what people will tell you because people who know you see the light in you right they see these

how you show up how you talk about something what you get excited about they often see something before you do right and so just have the courage to make peace with okay so it's not photography and go back to school for god's sake like who says you can't go back to school after a certain age right like people do that all the time sometimes they have to right they lose their jobs and and and they've got to go reinvent themselves. Like that, that is the fabric of being human. We're constantly evolving and changing and challenging ourselves, right? So don't be afraid of school, right? I believe that purpose is a multi-horizon, right? You have many different horizons of purpose. It's all a collective build. So something that she's done with photography, everything she's done up into this point in life

will prepare her for what comes next. Just trust the process. Yeah, I think it was you who said something to me, it was like, you know, just because you are good at something or it's what makes you money, it doesn't mean, I'm trying to remember exactly what she said, but it was like, you know, like, it doesn't mean you have to do it because everybody else thinks you should do it. Oh, well, you're good at that and you make money at that. So this is what you should do. But I'm like, well, that's hard. If that's your moneymaker, but you don't exactly love something.

Yeah. Well, you know, there's a quote. If you bring what's within you forward, it'll save your life. if you don't bring what is within you, it'll kill you, right? Like, we have a purpose. Everyone has a purpose. I remember one time somebody, I was working with somebody and they said their therapist told them they had no purpose. I was like, wait, whoa, everyone has a purpose.

You just might not know what it is right now. Maybe your purpose is to figure out your purpose. Like allow yourself to be okay with that, like exploring it, right? Like, we all have a purpose. And so, you know, if you're doing something, that's not fulfilling, start to explore, right? See how what you're doing can bleed into another area. You don't have to quit.

You don't have to, you know, go on this big epic journey to find yourself. But allow yourself the permission to explore what else it is that excites you. What do you love about your job? What is it that? Because I know you did something else, corporate thing. And, you know, there was a day where, you know, I'm not going to tell you about your life. But there was a day you just said, eh, not going to. do that anymore. Something you made a lot of money in, something you could, whatever. I remember

it because it made me feel like, oh, she's opening up in a way that I could relate to. And you, what was it? Because you didn't know you're going to be successful as a life coach, right? I mean, you probably. I have no idea. But you know what? Here's the thing. I, there was a repeating pattern, right? And I'll ask people, what's your word? What do people say to you, right? And so there was this word that kept coming up, right? You're an awesome. listener, right? You're like, I sat down in your office and it was like I took truth serum. I just out came something I didn't prepare to say to you, right? And so I was like, oh, my nickname as a kid was Tabby. My grandmother named me that because I was curious like a cat, like always asking, always

inquiring, right? And so I think I've been a coach mind. No, I know I've been a coached my entire life. It just didn't know that's what I was meant to be, right? And so what do I love about it? It's meeting people like you. It's changing lives. I have been doing this since 2012 and I still have clients from 2012 that will reach out and say, hey, just want to let you know what's going on in my life or, you know, hey, want you to know I just achieve that thing. And that is like the most amazing thing. Like I know what I do matters. Like I help people find their truth. Like it's all inside of you. I didn't tell you anything. I didn't ask you to do anything. I didn't make you do anything. I just was there for part of the journey asking really good questions and helping you see it

differently. Right. Right. Like what an amazing privilege to be part of somebody's journey. That's sacred. What was the quote you just gave a few minutes ago or it was about if you're not, if it's something inside of you is not leading the way. What was it? If you bring what's within you forward, it'll save you, right? So it's talking about your purpose. Right, right. But if you don't bring what is within you forward, it will kill you, right? It's like knowing you were born to do something, but you didn't give yourself the opportunity, knowing that you really want to try this thing, like you always wanted to be this thing, but just don't have the courage, or maybe somebody didn't support you or you've got self-dows, like, that will eat you alive, right? It's like, if there's

something that's within you that you feel passionate about, you've got to explore it. You've got to let it out. Ellen Wassel, you are a, you're a gem. You really are. I love this, and I hope, I know people will get something from this. And I just can't thank you enough. You know, we'll be in touch. And I hope you'll come back sometime. Absolutely. This is a joy. Thank you for having me. Thanks for allowing to be inside of you, Ellen. Yeah, okay. That's the, that's the show. Thank you. All right. Thank you for being inside. All right. I love you. Thanks so much. Love you. Bye-bye.

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Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. I hope you really enjoyed that. Ellen is a fantastic woman, and you just got to see. It's like the tip of the iceberg. It's just the tip. You're just seeing a little bit of all the genius and a little more genius coming your way. Let's get inside behavioral therapist, therapist of mine.

I love you. Let's get inside Sandy Daniel. I'm surprised that you are, you know, you're willing to do this because, you know, mental health is so important. And I always say health is wealth. That's, it doesn't matter how rich you are. We all have one thing in common and that's, you know, health is a number, number one thing that we have to sort of, we have to take care of ourselves. And you know what I mean?

And so first of all, tell me about what is DBT? Dialectical Behavior Therapy is a philosophy and school of thought created by a lady named Marsha Lennaham, who herself had. some mental health challenges and quite honestly she found that when she had been a recipient of mental health services that it didn't quite do it for her they wanted to do more medications it was more the traditional medical model and having the schools of thoughts such as cognitive behavior therapy which are super successful along with her her idea to really bring in eastern medicine too, meditation, you know, kind of getting quiet within oneself, reflection, and then some basic skills training about how to manage your life, how to manage your feelings,

how to manage people. Right. And not make it worse. Right, because I wanted you to describe it because, you know, I could do that, but, you know, all I could say is it works. And, you know, you use a combination of a lot of great therapies, right? You don't believe in one. And I think, you know, as an actor, it's like, you know, you learn all these things.

It's like, oh, Stanislovsky, and people are, oh, I studied with Lee Strasbourg, and that's what I believe. And I'm like, great. But I like to believe in, like, I take things from everywhere. Oh, Strasbourg had this cool thing, and Stanislauski had this cool thing, and Uda Hagen had this. And is that sort of what you do? It's exactly what I do, because I think everybody has something to offer and some wisdom when it comes to providing somebody therapy or counseling. There's a lot of different perspectives, and you've got to meet the person where they're at.

So I think you kind of, I think it is in the best interest of your patients and in your clients if you're able to be flexible and adaptable like that. Yeah, I didn't know what to expect. When you first met me, you know, I guess my personality, I'm sort of all over the place. And I was like, you know, I don't, do you remember me saying, I don't think I could be helped? I just feel like there's so much and I don't know where to begin. Do you get that a lot from people where they're like, I'm just so complex. Like we have this theory. Everybody thinks, oh, but my problems are too much for you to handle it.

Do you hear that a lot? All the time, all the time. And everybody's problems are different, but suffering is suffering. And I think that that's one commonality that we have to lean into versus what makes us different from others. And that's a whole part of willingness of being in treatment is being willing to join your comrades or your peers who are also trying to find their way in life and not separate. yourself so much and kind of come at it from like people could never understand. That's a great way to resist treatment. It's just to say, I can't be helped, so I'm going to just do my thing. You know, I'll say, look, you haven't tried it with me. That's true. And I think resistance is the

biggest problem. We resist it. And I think nowadays, isn't mental health being more normalized in society than it was? Absolutely. Especially young adults. They're really embracing it. And, you know, I've always said to people who come into my office, I worry more about the people who don't go to therapy than the people that do. Because if you go to therapy, you're willing to be self-aware, know thyself, and kind of take responsibility, right? I mean, we're not responsible for traumas that necessarily happen to us, but we are responsible for being healed and getting better and not letting those traumas dominate our life.

And that is the true challenge, you know, does trauma? has lost, does deprivation become one's identity? And is that the life that you want to create? Yeah. You have to kind of get there, right? Yeah, and I think, you know, especially with the pandemic, the coronavirus and all these things that are happening and the world is changing. It is.

And hopefully for the better, with all this crap that's going on, you hope that the, you know, all the divisiveness politically and all this stuff, it's like, you know, just forget about that. Let's try to connect. Let's try to, you know, it's so easy to say, but. I had the feeling that once it's all over, and I'm sure I'm a cynic, but do we go back to the same way it was? Or do we really create this environment where we own it and we're lucky. We're so lucky to have connection and be able to have the freedom to do the things we do.

And we should take advantage of that and not sort of, you know, people are always on their phones. People are always, you know, it's just there's this disconnect. So this pandemic, you know, it's really fractured society and it's testing us. You know, how do you do when you're all alone? How do you do when you sit with yourself? What do you think about? Where does your mind go? You know, do you catastrophize and kind of think about worst case scenarios and how does that impact

your mood and then how does that then affect your behavior? So it's sort of this painful day-to-day self-awareness of, you know, what is it about myself that's working? What is it about myself that's not working so good? We all do that. Yeah. I mean, people think and think and think and think all day long. And that is, I think, what a lot of people are struggling with right now.

No distractions. Yeah. So what will you do in your quiet time? And who are you? Who am I? That's the big question. You sent me this list, which was really helpful. And I read it a few times of just things that, you know, people think about and they do.

And it was just sort of like a simple guide, if you will. And one of the things that strike me is you said, you know, people and I do, I'm going to be honest with you. I had a cigarette. I had a cigarette right before this. Yeah, I know. And I have, I know, I know. I was, I've been stressing a little bit. I've been dealing with it.

I've been trying to get into routine. And when I do, I notice like today I had so much anxiety. And I said, I don't want to work out. I want to lie in bed. I want to bed. And I remember what you told me early on. You said, what is that doing? Lying in bed, is it helping you?

I'm like, no, I just sit there. and anxiety. And you're like, get up, do something. And I, I remembered that. And I got up and I went downstairs and I just started lifting weights and getting my blood going and went for a walk. And the anxiety just started to go away. It was just, it's not, I mean, it is science. It's just, it's amazing how if you just go and do something, because you could get so caught up in your, your anxiety, in your world that you almost start to feel sorry for yourself. I forgot how you talked about that to me. But yeah. Look, we have over 50,000 thoughts a day.

You've got to pick careful, which ones you're going to invest with and run with. And the strongest emotion tends to get the most attention. So if you're worried, the natural mind inclination is going to be to look for the situations that validate the emotion. Right. So because we want to be right. It's just human nature. But we have to challenge ourselves not to sit in the sadness, not to sit in the sorrow. not to sit in the lost.

Just because we're feeling it doesn't mean that we need to react to it or do anything with it. It's a feeling. Feelings come and go. They give us important information. I'm not saying discount them. But we don't need to set up camp there if it's ineffective. And it's a barrier, right? Oh, I don't feel like it.

Well, you're not going to feel like it. It's telling one of my clients the other day. I said, you know, I care for you deeply, but how you feel right now is irrelevant. You need to do what you need to do. and I know that sounds strange coming from a therapist, you will not always be motivated, but you do need to get disciplined to figure out what works and what's better and what is effective. Well, you said something like, you know, people using the pandemic as a reason for engaging in

self-destructive behaviors, drinking during the day, going back to relationships that may be toxic, engaging in things that they normally wouldn't do. And it's just, I think that's human nature. It's like, oh, let's go back to a place that you think is. safe, but you know is not good for you. It's like, why are we doing these things? And then you get mad at yourself and there's a cyclical thing that goes round and round. Here I go again, doing the same shit.

And what's wrong with me? Stop it right now, right? Look, do not give yourself dangerous permission. We don't look back. We're not going that way. Okay? You have a lot of time to think right now. Can we lean into what we would like versus what we had versus how we feel?

What do you want to create? How do you want to be? what are the things getting in the way of that right i mean i think it's super important that we hold ourselves accountable and be mindful of where our head is going and be actively working to avoid avoidable suffering okay not to re-engage not to use these as this time as an excuse to really go down yes you don't have work but that does not mean you should go and start drinking during the day right yeah well especially if things were going relatively well if you're getting your things together and all of a sudden this happens you're like oh it's the end of the world i could

have a smoke i could have a drink you're just going to fall back into those bad habits and you know one thing the thing that resonates with me is when i was there while i was there at privy you know it's 21 days to we've talked about this 21 days to break a habit right well then i assume it's 21 days to create good habits correct 21 but like really i mean If you're really, they say 90 meetings and 90 days and they say those things because the more time under your belt, the better. But yes, three weeks to start for sure. Right. So simple things.

I wake up in the morning. And let's say it's any listener that's out there, they wake up and they have anxiety. What do you recommend they do first thing? What are some of the coping skills? What are some of the things that you would say? Well, hey, good morning. Here we are again, right? I don't know why I'm feeling anxiety, maybe a little bit of self-reflection, but I've got to get up and get going.

I'm not going to entertain it that much. I'm not going to feed the beast. I'm feeling a little unsettled today. So let me go ahead and keep my normalcy as much as possible for my anxiety sufferers. Routine is huge, okay? Staying in a routine, staying in some level of structure and certainty is one of the few things we can do right now. So you need to do that. You don't sit there and lay and think about, oh, my God, what if this gets worse, right?

We don't want to create the emergency. We want to respond to the feeling. So I'm having a lot of discomfort. I'm not sure what's going on today. We want to speak on it. And then we want to get busy and active. Now, that could be whether you're hitting the gym or that could be doing your meditation for the day.

You know, pick however you want to then begin your day. But the feeling should not be the dominant factor in what. why you do it, okay? Feelings are super important, but let's be honest. Some of them are skewed. They're based in trauma responses. They're based in our perceptions. They're not always accurate.

Yeah. And if we live very emotionally, we tend to live more impulsively. An impulse sometimes creates a lot of regret. Emotions don't make sense sometimes. We don't know why. So, you know, what I would say is that sticking to your almost seeing your routine will be of most benefit to you because that is what you can control. We don't need to sit there and dissect every feeling and every thought. You feel how

you feel. Maybe you watched, you know, SVU last night and it was like, bad. I don't, you know, what they mean? Like sometimes it's just that simple. And people will say, like, you know, I need to get to the bottom of this. But, you know, anxiety, when people come in my office and they tell me they're anxious, it tells me they care very much, which is a beautiful thing, and that they think a lot. Yeah. And I have to help them figure out if they're part of the solution or part of the problem. Yeah, I think that's been an ongoing thing with me is, you know, thinking too much, worrying

too much, stressing too much. I mean, talk about sleep disorder. I was starting to sleep really well for months and months, and I had things, and I don't know if it's subconsciously with this whole thing going on. I don't know what it is. Maybe you could tell me, but I'm having problems sleeping, staying asleep, waking up, feeling arrested. And I'm like, what am I doing wrong?

I'm doing the same things, aren't I? And then you look back and you're not exactly doing the right things. You're drinking sodas. We're quite sedentary, right? I mean, I don't know. It's challenging for me to get my 11,000 steps in a day right now. I'm walking laps in my backyard, you know, trying to create that same level of activity, just so I do have a healthy ability to try to sleep that evening.

But I do think we're all sort of in a state of hypervigilance. And this is such a bizarre time in the world. I mean, I never remember growing up not trusting, like, if the news was accurate. Or, you know, I never remember this stuff being even contemplated. And now we're very much suspect of many things in our world. and even just the way the pandemic is going, right? Every state's doing it different. Right.

Well, what the heck does that mean? You know, that's anxiety, you know? Florida isn't doing it the way Connecticut's doing it. You know, I got to get on board here. And we're all sort of responsible for ourselves. And I think people are feeling kind of hung out there. Like, oh, my gosh, this is unprecedented. And there's so much news.

There's so much going on. Whatever sides you're on, there shouldn't be any sides at this point. There should just be scientists, things and those things are real so anybody who says anything else is not real that's if you're a scientist for instance if you think you know a lot about therapy but you're not you didn't go to school and study to be a therapist why would anyone want to listen to you if i was talking to you and you were my sister people would be saying writing and saying um i think your sister needs therapy she shouldn't be talking about therapy absolutely and i love that you're saying that because what we're talking about

is look at the facts, okay? Facts and evidence is how we need to kind of move forward. We don't want to live in, what if, what shoulda coulda wooda, if only is we want to live in what the facts are. I tell people, look, I don't want you on the media all day long with CNN in the background. I get a couple places you get your news from. That's it. Are you saying maybe in the morning, get somebody the source that you like and then at night

try it again, but don't all day. go into this because it's just going to make you anxious? We're not going to perseverate on it because we can't control it. We can do our part, okay? But we don't need to suffer every moment of every day in order for us to care about something, for us to feel that it's important for us to be somewhat frightened about it, right? You want to give yourself some mental respite because the supply runs dry after a while. You have to refill, you have to rejuvenate, you have to refresh, you have to step away.

Right. For some reason, I didn't ask, I have this Patreon account. So my patrons, you know, they ask questions. And I was like, oh, shit. Because this was sort of spur the moment with you guys. And I was like, oh, you know, I want to do this. I want to have a mental health week. But there were some questions.

And Patricia says, as so many of us deal with the repercussions of negative mental programming from our childhood, hello, or past relationships, what is the best way to reprogrammental self-image to embrace our essential self and begin to identify and live our best lives. Right. All right, Ms. Patricia, awesome question. Right. First of all, I want to know what her narrative is about that time in her life.

The story we tell ourselves is huge, okay? And there's a lot of different ways to look at how a person grew up and what they got. You know, what's the difference between the kid who succeeds on? from the same impoverished circumstances from the kid who doesn't. It's their mindset. It's how they tell themselves their story. It's their ability to kind of say, well, that was one chapter. And what is the good that comes out of adversity?

A lot. Does that mean we like to go through it and that we shouldn't hold people accountable? Of course not. But we don't want to live there. We're so much more than those moments. And when we're children and we go through trauma, we tend to get stuck in those moments and still respond as an adult in many ways like that. So it's super important that, yes, you acknowledge where you come from, you don't forget your humble beginnings. But as you grow and as you age and as life changes, it's important to look at that narrative and come up with different insights, right?

we've gotten some difficult memories that we want to be mindful of. But we don't want to sit and view the rest of our life from that hurtful perspective or happiness will be very hard to find. It's part of your story. When you say part of your story, part of my story. I mean, what do you notice? Like, look, I'm open. You know, I'm open about these things.

So I give you permission. But what did you notice, like, you saw a transformation, if you were, like, of, You know, when I walked in that room and then we started having a couple sessions a week and we started talking about things and the more I was open. What did you notice that I was stuck on? Do you remember kind of what I was always stuck on? It was what if so the time, right? What if my physical health changes and I'm not able to do something that I would like to do, right? What if I can't feel better? What if I wake up with this anxiety forever, right? It's a lot of projecting into the future. And what I found really helpful was just to help bring you back to where you're at now

and how much you've been able to do and try not to get too far ahead of yourself. You know, there's a lot of wisdom in one stuff at a time, as simplistic as that phrase is. We can't possibly prepare for every possible scenario. Well, there are some things we're going to have to cross that bridge when we get there. and you don't need to grieve and react and respond and prepare for the pain, okay? Yeah. And let me so choose. Yeah, it's almost like you're living, what am I?

You know, somebody said, you know, if you stand up and you look down at the ground, you have one foot in the past, one foot in the future, and you're pissing on the present. It's kind of true because the past is depression, right? Anxiety is the future. You're thinking ahead. Anxiety is, I don't know if I can do it. I don't know if I'm going to land on my feet. I don't know.

Right? It's a lot of lack of self-belief, a lot of lack of hope. And it also can come from when people who you thought would be there couldn't be there. If your people couldn't do that for you, it really kind of makes you rethink the whole idea of being able to trust the world. Right. But where I think we grow is when we realize, look, we have to look at our parents. And as a parent now, I so see this. Hopefully I'm not damaging my children every day that passes. But, you know, I have to take a look at what part of our past do we want to bring along.

How do we take what happened to us and make it wisdom versus continuing acting it out? So like going back to Patricia's, you know, question, I'm having anxiety. Okay. I don't know why. All right. What do you want to do? Something. I got to get out of bed.

I don't want to sit here in this. Like for yourself, you know, you grew up. You took care of yourself. So it's hard when you're sort of a lone soldier to let people back in and know that, right? So you had to retest some of that. And you had to believe that you became who you are. Yeah. And I also think that for me, you know, and a lot of people out there, one of the biggest things for me is letting go.

If you could just forgive. It's not that you have to forget. It's not that you have to, you know, that's what I learned with you. It's like you can forgive because if you don't, what happens? It just keeps lingering around, right? It'll make you sick. It don't make you sick. It makes you feel resentful.

It makes you feel sad. It puts you in more of a victim stance, you know, and you want to be able to take these difficulties and make them into a positive part of your story for the best that you can because it wasn't because you weren't a good enough kid that you didn't get what you didn't get. it was because caregivers weren't able to provide it for whatever reason one way or the other. So sort of take, you know, when we get hurt when we're little, we always carry that. And it's super important as adults to be like, wait a minute.

Okay, that was what you thought when you were eight. All right? There was no good reason for you to get the heck, you know, beat out of you or whatever. When you were eight years old for doing something that was really benign, okay? That was kind of outlandish. So you don't want to carry all those false beliefs and falsehoods that it was always your fault. And I think therapy can really help people kind of untangle that web. Yeah.

It's not like you go to therapy and you're like, oh, I'm fixed. Right. It's your, you have to do a lot of the work. Like you guide me and you're like, this is what you, you know, this is what you need to do. And you don't tell me what to do as much as you let me sort of figure out, we talk about things. And then you make it so much more understanding from me where I can go, oh like do you remember this is something where you're like when you start to think of something that hasn't happened you say stop stop stop that hasn't happened that's two weeks from now we're

not going to spend our time on this right now that was something that for a while after i left i would people probably look at me but stop oh shit not you sir not you sir but stop and then i could do it in my mind, I'm like, stop it. Dude, this is in a week and a half. You're not going to worry. You can set time. You said you can set time another day for 15 minutes, and you can think about that if you want, but you are not wasting your time and getting anxious for two weeks until that happens when you don't know what's going to happen. You're going to be fine. And it's like, it's these little things like that. Right. Keep it in the moment. Look, there's a lot of common sense in therapy, be too. That we can't grieve or commit to feeling about things in the future. We just don't know

what's going to be. And we don't know how we'll respond. And by the time that comes, you have no idea what situation you'll be in. And you could absolutely handle it in a magnificent way. Yeah. It's keeping busy. It's not allowing yourself to get overwhelmed. It's, uh, all right, Vanessa in the sky says, I've been dealing with depression lately since my dad passed away. Sorry, Vanessa. I am a lot better now, but I'm still not enough. Everything kind of triggers me still. So my question is, are there techniques or thought processes I can follow to not let everything get into my brain so much?

I feel like no matter what someone says lately, I take it too personal and will fall back into a deep, dark pit of depression that I'm trying to climb out of. You're a little raw, Vanessa. right? You just lost your dad. They say we lose a parent at any age. We feel like an orphan. So you're feeling a little bit more exposed. You don't have somebody that's been in your life for as long as you've lived. And maybe there's some element of loss of feeling protected in the world

and feeling safe and secure. And as you continue to live your life and with each day that you're able to accomplish things and go to work or do those responsibilities, you will start to gain the confidence in yourself again that you have always had all along that maybe you attributed to that was because my dad was here. Your dad taught you well, okay? And he's coming up, and I think that's a beautiful thing,

and I think you should honor his memory. You know, I always say to my clients, if my kids remember the day I die, I'm going to be so pissed because there's so much I'm trying to do for them while I'm living, right? And I think a lot of parents, like, don't concentrate on the date. Concentrate on the life he lived and the lessons he tried to teach you. And how is he still within you?

And is he popping into your head because he's trying to give you a sign because you're dating a guy that's not good for you? I don't know. Okay. But there's a lot of reasons why you're thinking about him. And some of it might be circumstance or situational. It's not a bad thing. Don't push you to let. You loved him.

Yeah. Right? I think that's. that's profoundly um wise uh you know as you know i lost my grandfather who was my best friend in november on thanksgiving and see got me a little emotional and you know sandy sometimes i get emotional i get a little choked up and i just read you know when i was reading her letter i get you know i started thinking about her and i get it like you know it's it's it's difficult and i you know i remember at the end i just i didn't even want to see my grandfather he had Alzheimer's it was late stage and

It was like, you know, I, he was, then went to a hospice and they were like, do you, do you want to see him? I'm like, no, he knows how much I loved him. I know people can do what they want and some people have to see him. My uncle had to see him and people, I did not want to do that. I go, I, Irv knows more than anything that I loved him and love him. And that's something that I think, too, that to know that Irv, you know, whoever you lose, they loved you. You never get to say what you want to say. It's almost like there's never enough time.

but you have to know that you know I was loved he knows that I loved him and there was no I never looked back on that I didn't want to see him like that that was just me yeah everybody grieves differently everybody has their own ways yeah and I think that was a wise choice for you because you tend to be a person who would remember that visual okay and that's not going to be helpful for you when you think about herb you want to think about the loving memories yeah and the great go. That's exactly right. We don't want to think about what he looked like on his deathbed because that will break your heart. And the human mind has this funny way of like not knowing sometimes, whether it's

happening now or whether we're remembering something in the past. And what you end up doing is re-traumatizing yourself sometimes. Again, one of these notes here you said, and I'm going to let you go here in a second, and I hope you come back because it's just you have so much information. And there's something about you and that's why a good therapist is so important to find. It's because And for us, it's an emotional connection. I just feel safe with you. I just feel safe. I feel like I'm not being judged.

And I feel like a lot of guys, a lot of, whatever it is, you know, they don't want to go to therapy because, you know, they're afraid they're going to be judged. I don't want to cry. Crying is not for a minute. I've never seen my dad cry. I never saw my grandfather, Irv, cry, I think, once. But so what would you say to people out there who have always said, I'm not going to therapy, I'm not going to therapy, have been putting it off? What would you say to someone? What are you afraid of?

that you will find. And you know what? How bad could it really be? And if you think it's as bad, it's probably not as bad as most. And I mean, unless you're harboring something like he killed someone, you know,

God forbid. But like we all have our shit. You'd be surprised at the shit that Sandy hears. Look, pain is inevitable. Suffering is optional. There's a gain for every behavior, right? So if you're holding on to stuff and you kind of have that barrier, maybe you're just not comfortable because maybe there's been some bad

therapists out there that you've had bad experiences with. Therapy is for you. It's for you to evolve, for you to try and figure out what your best life would look like. Nobody's there to strip you down or to be standing in judgment. You know, like when people come to Preve, oh, I was so nervous, you know, they might say something to that effect, and I said, look, where else are you going to go where you have some of the brightest minds

who want to share with you their insights about how the great life you made could even be better? That's a gift to give yourself. I think therapists need therapists. There's just some stuff in your head sometimes that doesn't make sense. And it's really helpful, first of all, just to tell the story, but also for the story to be heard. And for the, you know, you know me, I'm very authentic. I'm like, really?

Do you really think like that? Yeah. And, you know, there's some levity involved. There's got to be. Everybody has something. Everybody has something. Everybody has something. And that's another thing.

It's like, you know, I try not to judge anymore. I mean, I do. I mean, we all judge in some way, but it's like, you know, especially after all this, it's just like, dude, just love each other, respect each other, find time to call someone because it might make them smile, spend an extra five minutes with someone instead of, you know, I could be very selfish. I could be doing things.

But sometimes I'm just like, you know what? You're going to spend today calling all the people that you really do love and you're going to tell them and you're going to talk to them and you're going to see how they're doing and that doesn't take a lot of time. And, you know, again, with this pandemic and everybody's, you know, the anxiety and all these things. You said, you know, watching inspirational speakers helps, try to keep close to your time schedule so you won't feel so run down when it's time to reintegrate people.

Explain that really. quick. Yes, totally. So I continue to get up early every day, as much as it may pain me, because I'm doing a lot of work from home. But I'm doing that because I want to keep my sense of normalcy. And I know this is temporary. And when I go back to work, I don't want to suffer. And I want to make sure I stay on schedule. And it's actually good for me to get up and work out early and get that stuff done. Remember, we don't want to give ourselves permission to just fall apart here and be a hot meth, we have to figure out, you know, and stick to our morals, stick to our values, stick to our priorities, and do what's in our best interest, even if we may not be feeling

like it because it feels like things are so chaotic right now. But don't add to the chaos. Well, look, by the way, I didn't bring up all your education, all these things, because that will be in the intro. No, but people should know that this, you just know, like he didn't even say, you went to Yale, you've written a book, you've, you have, you have, you have, you have, you have so much education and so much wisdom and I know it firsthand by by talking to you and you working with me and I could not be more appreciative that you came on today and I don't know why but like I feel like you know when you get like a little emotional like it's behind your face like it's just like I don't know I think just because I haven't been talking to you as often as we were and I think you know

it makes me feel like dude this worked I think I think that's what it is it's like this worked why aren't you looking at this woman weekly you know what I mean and it just kind of makes me go do let's go you know and And I think another thing you taught me was stopping so hard on yourself. Like, I'm not going to sit here and go, you know, you didn't talk to Sandy for a month. Okay, you didn't. So start fucking talking to her. You know, out there, you're listening.

You're like, oh, you know what? I haven't been doing, well, then do it. Stop saying, oh, and be so sad about what you haven't done and just do it, turn it around. And I think that's what we all have to do. And the goals that you get better and you come back for sort of a tune. Right? Yeah. I mean, the times you need me more, I'm here.

We don't want to make people into professional patients. We want them to live and succeed and love outside of our office. But, you know, we can feel some good voids, too, where some of those needs didn't get met. And it is a privilege to be on your team and to help you on your journey. Well, thank you, Sandy, Daniel, for allowing me to be inside of you today on inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. That's kind of a saying we say at the end of each episode. It wasn't perverted.

It sounds perverted. But this has been awesome. I love you to death. And I hope some people learn something today. I think they will like this. Yeah, tell them to reach out. All right. I will.

Thanks. I'll have a great evening. Love you. Love you. I love you too. Bye. Thank you guys for listening today. I hope this helps.

You know, it's when you have someone that has so much knowledge about, you know, these topics and anxiety or depression or whatever it is or, you know, getting your shit together, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. isn't going to do it, but it can give you an understanding, hopefully, and just an idea that, hey, maybe this will work, because not maybe, it will, it will work. You just got to, you got to commit. So I'm going to thank my guests. I want to thank Ellen Wessel. I want to thank Sandy Daniel from the bottom of my heart for doing this. They didn't have to. They're so busy and helping other people. I'm going to read you a little fan letter. Apropos comes to mine. It's just, it's a very

fitting for this episode. Rosie, in one of your episodes, you mentioned the Wellness Center you went to in Connecticut. Can you share the name? Today, you, Preveiseuze. Thank you for your great podcast. It's so helpful to hear you and your guests be so open, KB. Well, KB, you're very, very welcome, I'll tell you that much. Also, a reminder about Patreon. The Inside of You, Patreon, join it if you want.

And where have all the good horror movies gone? Patreon is pretty fun with John Heeter and I. We talk about horror movies and watch them, and it's a big community. all right calling out all my patrons here it is inside of you patrons thanks for the love i couldn't do this podcast without you period the end you leave but who knows maybe i'll leave how do you like that you know who you are nancy d mary b lea s trisha f sarah v ukeko jill e b b b brian h won't up lauren g nico p barry l angelina g jerry w kevin r emily k B. Robert B. Jason W.

Kristen K. Not Kristen Kruke, but cooler. Allison L. Raj. Raj. Sean W. Joshua D. Emily S. C.J.P. Samantha M. Hamza. Hamsa B. Jennifer N. Stacey L. Carly T. Reme. Jennifer S. Janelle B. Tabitha 272. Kimberly E. Melissa C. Mike E. Jake M. Marissa. N. Judah D. Ramira. Beth B. Chris F. Sarah F.

Add W. Leanne P. Darla. Darling. Jackie P. Rodrigo S. Radrigo S. Rachin 77, hi. Ray A. Maya P. Megan D. DeMario. Jennifer C. Maddie S. Tiffany L. Kendrick F. Ashley F. Kelly W. Margie M. Sigourney P. Thomas T. I love you guys all. You know, it's funny. I'd love to say your last things, but that would probably take forever. I don't know. Maybe we'll do that next time. Say your names. And then everybody's looking. you up and you lose your privacy and you'd probably hate me all right there those are all my patrons thank you for all the love um and uh guys be safe and love one another it's it's so simple thank you for allowing to be inside of you thank you for taking the time to be with me and um it's pretty uh it's pretty awesome that you guys listen to the show it's uh it's just cool that alone is just cool if anybody listens to you so i hope you got something from today um I'd like to say I did it for you, but I did it for me too. I wanted to connect with these therapists and Zach and hopefully help someone.

It helped one person that makes me happy. So, all right. Much love. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account.

The mortgage. That's what we do. down payment on a home something nice buying a vehicle a separate bucket for this edition that we're at 50,000 i'll buy a new podcast you'll buy new friends and we're done thanks for playing everybody we're out of here stacking benjamins follow and listen on your favorite platform