Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - MICHAEL DORN: Setting Star Trek Records, Embracing Worf & Escaping the Hollywood Hamster Wheel

Episode Date: October 1, 2024

Michael Dorn (Star Trek, Steelworks) joins us this week to share his record setting tenure throughout Star Trek as Worf along with the grounding and gratitude that has allowed him to maintain a love and passion for his character and cast mates. Michael talks about auditioning for the role with the likes of the late great James Avery and how embracing ‘being outsider’ helped throughout the series. We also talking about escaping the Hollywood hamster wheel, his life changing prostate cancer diagnosis, and a great story onset Rocky where he was uncredited. Thank you to our sponsors: 🏈 PrizePicks: https://prizepicks.com/inside 🛍️ Shopify: https://shopify.com/inside ⚕️ Lumen: https://lumen.me/inside 🦰 Nutrafol: https://nutrafol.com + "inside" __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Thanks for making this show, the show you listen to. I know you probably have a lot of other podcasts and all that, but it's awesome. It's awesome that you're listening. If you're here from Michael Dorn, if you're a big fan, look, if you like the interview and you don't know who the hell I am, which is very possible, Ryan, all I ask is, hey, if you like the interview, you're like, hey, you know, that guy has a good interviewing style. Give it a chance. Listen to more episodes, right? That's not too much to ask for. No, that's pretty easy to do.

Yeah, if you like the episode, if you like, if you like us talking, subscribe, it's free and support the podcast. Also, to all my top tiers. Oh, by the way, Ryan's here. Oh, yeah, I'm usually here. Ryan had COVID. I did. Yeah, you're better now. I'm better now.

You can't smell. I can't smell still. That is good for you today in the studio. Fantastic. You know what I'm talking about. You claim that your farts don't smell. They don't. They really don't.

99% of them don't. And that's because I use rosy's puppy fresh farts. Yeah. Listen, if you love the show and you're a patron, patrons are those who get back to the show. It's like a streaming thing. It's like, you know, you don't have to pay, but if you want to give back to the show and keep it going, if you like the show and you want to stick around, go to Patreon, P-A-T-R-E-O-N, Patreon.com slash inside of you. And there's lots of tears and I send gift boxes and some, there's just so much stuff.

You get your name read out on each episode. Also go to my Instagram, at the Michael Rosenbaum, my link tree. You'll see our Smallville con. It's the first one ever in October. October. Ryan's going. I have to book your flight. I booked your flight.

I booked your flight flying in Newark for it's October 5th weekend Tom welling's gonna be there a bunch of people it's gonna be fun Chris and crew I had to put in my my traveler number so I get that pre-check oh yeah oh yes a little pre-check little pre-check action yeah so in that link tree is I'm on cameo my cameos are fun people always like them and Rosie's puppy fresh breath my new product for your dogs if their breath's bad I just the reason the reason I got, I made this product is because I didn't like my dog's breath. So a capful in the, you know, in the morning, I just put in both their balls of water. It's odorless, tasteless, and their breath is so much better. And I use it every day. I'm not just saying get it. I'm saying I use it. So Rosie's puppy fresh breath on Amazon and got to mention the book. The Talented Fartor is on Amazon and pre-order. It comes out October 22nd. And it's a sound book with farts and it's meaningful and great illustrations. And I think you'll love it. And please get it. And Make it a New York Times best farder, smeller, seller, seller, seller, smeller.

The inside of you online store has some great stuff, some scripts from my collection for charity and other Smallville stuff and tumblers and whatnot. Yeah. So that tells you everything there. Michael Dorn was awesome. He was, you know, I knew him from conventions and things like that. And again, I love it when people get personal and open. up and he's had a great career and um he just seems like very comfortable with himself you know what I mean just seems like I know who I am and I hope you would know who you are by you know he looks

a lot younger than he is I don't even remember holy he was but I remember going what yeah looks a lot younger but I think we're all starting you know trying to find ourselves and find purpose and all that stuff and I think this is a good interview and thanks Michael for joining us. Let's get inside of Michael Doran. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. First of all, now that it's on, it's rolling, I definitely want to say.

You've listened to the podcast, even before you were on. Yes. Before you asked, before you asked you. Really? Mm-hmm. I love that you listen to it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

No, it was, you know, everybody has a podcast. I've had it for a long time. Yeah. Yeah. And some of it is sort of like you see a lot of it, you know, and you kind of go, yeah, for about a minute, you're like, okay, no, 30 seconds. Yeah. You're like, okay, that's enough.

Trying too hard. or just not interesting not interesting no not interesting you know and even even the ones that have been around for a long time that are getting you know a lot of airplay and things like that you know you they they tend to lean one way or the other and i don't do politics no not politics but lean one way the other in terms of the the style right of the interview and then sometimes you kind of go no yeah let me ask you does the voice matter when you're listening to someone's voice no turned off you don't care if it's a good interview you don't care who's interviewing no not at all because sometimes if someone has a voice a whiny voice or high-pitched or whatever i can't

really listen to ben shapiro can't really take his voice that long uh-huh because it's really rapid and it's really sort of direct this that that's right you know and sometimes you just kind of go Yeah, I get it, you know. Insincere maybe? No, I don't think so. Just the voice. Just the voice. No, I think he's an intelligent guy.

I think that all of those, all of those political people, they're like lawyers to me, where they're going to say whatever it takes to win their case and leave out all the other stuff that may not win their case. Like they'll say, well, you know. Yeah, yeah, all of them do that. I mean, anytime, sometimes you just want to watch the news and just go, just give me the news. I don't want to hear your opinion on it. No.

Let me decide what my opinion is. But like, for instance, he'll say something like, you know, well, you know, African Americans do this and do this and do this. And it would be true. But there's a lot of other things that you're leaving out that you're leaving out that it's kind of important. Yeah. I can't believe how good you look. Oh, thank you. Why do you look so young?

Diet and exercise. What is your diet? I'm a strict, avid, vegan. Strict, avid, vegan. You don't veer away from what you're supposed to be doing. Not at all. Why is that? I was, long story.

Oh, I had. In about 20, almost 20 years ago, I got diagnosed with prostate cancer. Right. And when I got diagnosed, the doctor comes in. And he says, Michael, you got it, 25% of your prostate, which is in a lot. It hasn't migrated to the outer part. So you're fine. And prostate cancer is the slowest cancer.

And the older, you get it slower, slower. No, it's always slow. It is. Yeah. And so he said, we caught it early. And he says, you know, you don't even have to decide today. You can, you know, take six months, get, you know, second opinions and, you know, do whatever you want to do, all the research. And then you kind of put you at ease.

He says, look, all men get it. They don't die from it. Is that true? Yeah. Yeah. So I'm going to get prostate cancer probably? You may have prostate cancer at some point, you know, you won't die from it, but you have it. That's kind of scary.

But it's so slow growing that, you know, you'll be a hundred before it doesn't. anything unless you don't do anything unless you don't do anything and that's a big deal so he said and this is the crazy part i had already been moving towards eating healthy but not completely and then he says all men get it except vegetarians i go what and he goes he's never seen a vegetarian with prostate cancer and this is the guy that's seen a thousand prostates and so that sent me to the internet and to people that I know. And I don't like to keep secrets. And so I would tell everybody, yeah, I got it. I got it. And they'd have all kinds of information for me. Right. Overflow. And it was really great because then you can pick and choose. And so I went to the internet and to the people I know that do

that. And man, it was like we put so much crap in our bodies just on a normal basis. Even if you think you're healthy, there's a lot of crap. Yeah. Sugars. Sugar. Big one. Yeah, that's a tough one for me. Yeah. And it's just, it's not like I eat sweets all the time, but I like a soda. Okay. You're like, get off that.

You got to get off it. And it's not, and it's so logical. It's not something that, you know, that I'm going and making up because sugar feeds cancer. It's just the way it is. It's just, you know, like in high school biology, when a cell device. It needs food to divide. It needs to, you know, it's energy. And so sugar feeds it.

And in fact, when they look for cancer cells, they put in glucose. And the cancer cells go and they can detect. So anyway, so that's what led me down that. And then all of a sudden I said, well, you know, veganism and I was already headed that direction. And so I, let me give it a shot. So within a week, I'm completely vegan, and my whole body started to change. Honestly, like you're saying you felt better? Immediately.

Immediately. Energy, sleep, those things? The only thing that wasn't easy was I play a lot of tennis. I play, we got to play tennis. I love it. Played my whole life. I was just playing this morning. Where?

In Pasadena. That's where I'm, that's where I am right now. Oh, you're good, aren't you? I'm okay. I'm like, and I'm constantly taking lessons. So I'm. But you can hit the ball. You could serve.

You could play a game. I could play a game. All right. I like it. And so I, the energy level, I'd have to, I could only go for like a half an hour. And then I'd have to take a, you know, five minute break. And then I can go again. And so that was the transition.

So it's with staining or like having that energy where when you eat. and things like that. It kind of lasts longer. And now that you're vegan, it's, you notice your energy levels are a little different in terms of you just need to take a break and then you're okay again. Well, that was the first month or so. That was just the first month. Now it's fine. Now it's fine. Because, you know, when you eat meat, meat stays in your body for seven days. It's just there. I'm slowly going vegan right now. And so. I can feel myself. Yeah. So what happens is that, you know, all of that food is still there. So you can run and jump and no problem.

The body is feeding off that stuff. But when you're vegan, it's almost like, like, you know, charging your car. Yeah. You run, run, run. You need a charge. You put a charge in for an hour. And you go, okay, I can go for another, you know, except it's not hours. It's like, you know.

What do you eat? You know, it really kind of depends. But usually carbs in the morning before I work out. Like what kind of carbs? Blueberries, green apples. nothing sugary except for if I'm really going to play hard I may have a banana

right and then at lunch I'll have it's one of those meals is a small meal like the lunch if I have a small meal for lunch I'll have a big meal for dinner but the big meal is just like pasta with with fake meat or something like that

or just pasta and you cook yeah wow so you don't miss it no I didn't know I was going to get an education on this and I like it well you know and and that's the thing like in 2012 I was kind of you know heading towards retirement right and not you know being not retirement how old are you 71 what yeah and so but I wasn't I wasn't going okay I'm not going to I'm not going to act anymore it's just that I wasn't going to be on that hamster wheel of always no go auditioned have to

yeah yeah there somebody said you know I did this interview what do you want to do now and I at health and fitness. I want to kind of get that information out there. So people have, they don't have to do anything they want. They can do anything they want to do. But just so that they have the information that if they say, you know, I'm not feeling good about this or my body's not doing this, then this is another avenue you can go. Wow. What about inflammation? Do you notice like less pains and aches being able to be? You know, I haven't had any pains and aches. I mean, The pains and aches are head. Stress.

You know, people. People. Are you a people person? Very much. You are. You love going to conventions. You love meeting the fans? Not that much.

I love, you know, meeting people and, you know, like on a regular, like on a just a one-on-one. One-on-one. You know, you're socializing. But the fan thing is really interesting. It's a great way to get something out there. if you're doing something and also it's you know the fans are great and but my thing is that it was really tough because I was getting kind of crabby because I was doing so many right that I was just tired yeah and so I said you know I don't want to give the fans a you know a tired warf so uh

tired nothing worse than a tired worse than that and so I just cut back so now you can go and and have more fun and enjoy yeah because if you're doing because you were I mean you were how many were you doing a year uh all of us we're doing like 15 and 16 and that's a lot that's all you could start to get even tired of each other no no we'd never go how is that possible i mean you did more episodes as a character consistently than any other character right and i mean you were on set with these people like frakes and jonathan frakes and um i mean all uh gaiton and just i the list goes on there's so many will and uh was it really that because it seems like you're all really good

friends. And was it always like that? Was there ever like, uh, Spiner's being a pain in the ass? Franks is being a dick. Gaten's mad at something. Gates. Gaten. Gates. What I say? Gaten. Oh, I said Gaten. You know why? Because I interviewed a guy named Gaten. Ah. Matarazza. So I got a little. Yeah. Sorry. Sorry. Gaten. Um, you know, it was, it was odd in a way. And I don't mean odd in a bad way. It was just odd that. You know, after being in the business, I mean, all of us had been in the business for, for a few years. And, you know, we do guest spots or run a series and, you know, you like the people you work with or you really enjoy them or what are the case. And then you just kind of go, okay, that's over and you're going about your business.

But it was just lightning in a bottle. There was just something. And the producers weren't aware of anything like that. They were just hiring people. Right. They didn't. but something happened some spark or was it an appreciation you felt like you they everyone have each other's backs no you didn't feel like that we just liked each other you just liked each other

we just liked each other we thought each other were very funny who's the funniest to you who makes you laugh who makes you laugh the most I can't say how about on set when I can't say you can't say You can't. No, no. And again, it's not that somebody, because they're all really funny in their own way, you know, just Marina is that, you know, that English cockney wit, you know, and Patrick has that dry English humor, you know, and Jonathan is big and, you know, and he says this stuff that is, it's really just, and Brent is, it's totally invent. yeah um just you can't really put a who's the funniest i mean it was great for me because i loved it because you can no matter who you're working with and i always you know you work with everybody and then there's episodes where you work with one person in particular right and um and

that would be a joy and we would be laughing about stuff we always when they said action we were on it you know we never wasted time everybody knew their lines oh yeah and and um although they would say i never did why would they say that because you had the most had the least they said no i don't know but anyway they um so it was just i don't know i i couldn't explain it but um i kind of feel that way yeah i kind of feel that way on on small bill uh everybody was just really it was easy to work with everybody and i think we got closer after the show ended yeah it was weird it was like it was work no one wanted to hang out with each other because you're with each other all the time and then when the show ends tom and i become like best friends like i'm as like brothers

we're brothers yeah and christin you know it's like she's my sister and i mean the three of us have become you know so it's it is lightning in a bottle and there's nothing worse than having a leader on the show or someone who is not in a good mood who's always combative who's always and sure you dealt with that. Yeah. And there was nobody like that. Nobody stormed off the set. Nobody, you know, said, I'm out of here.

You know, it was always. And, you know, we were brave enough to where we would, you know, if somebody was acting like a dick, you go, you know, that's a little dickish, you know. And they go, oh, sorry. Yeah. You know, oh, is it really? Yes. And they go, oh, sorry about that. You know, and also with, with acting, you know, we're brutal with each other, you know.

Like, didn't believe it. Or, you know, we're like, you're going to do it like that, you know? And there was one time where we were, we were just, something was going on that we were possessed by something. And I was in my quarters and I was just, just emoting like, you know, because it was just to myself and I'm, oh, you know, and I'm, and Marina walks in. And she goes, whew, there's some heavy acting going in here. I went Marina I'm doing my shit

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Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum, Rocket Money. I mean, did you always, because when you were young, you were born in Luling, Luling, is it Luling? Luling, and then you moved to Pasadena. Yeah. But you really were interested in music. Yeah.

You eventually had bands and toured and things like that. Was that the dream to become a musician? You know what? It was at first. And in fact, music was kind of always a fallback for me. Because I had played when I was in school. and, you know, in the orchestra. You play something?

Well, when I was in school, I played the flute. Wow. And before that, I took piano lessons and had recitals with piano. And then in high school, I switched to the bass. And so I played bass for a while. And I was always kind of going, you know what? I'm young enough. I can go back to school and learn how to play.

And I wanted to be, what I really wanted to be was a session musician. That's what I really wanted to be. Yeah. The touring and just was really hard and trying to keep a band together with eight people. It's so hard. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's just, it's just a good friend. He was the singer and he was just amazing. He was, you know, Lee Powers and he was just superb. And but when people and it happens all the time, you know, one day he said, Michael, I can't do this. I, I, I have something else, you know, and the band breaks up, you know. And everybody gets pissed off with you. Oh, oh, and it's just, and so I decided that if I was going to screw up, you know, I really wanted to be on my own terms.

It's my responsibility. Right. And so I just not flipped a coin, but one day I said, okay, I just can't do this music. Do you play at all anymore at all? Yeah, I'm supposed to play in Vegas coming up. Well, with what? A band? Yeah, there's a band.

that plays at all the cons or something like that in Vegas. So you keep up with the bass. Yeah. You go home and you play and you do these riffs. What I do is it's so nice these days. And the old days, you had to listen to a record to get a bass line. But everything's online. Yeah.

You know, the music is online. And so if I hear a song that I really dig, I'll go, oh shit, now look up the music and everything like that and I'll learn it. Like what kind of songs would you look up? Oh, it's all. Can you listen to, do you listen to anything from 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, everything? Yeah, like we were, I thought we were going to play the Beatles because I, because I love Paul McCartney's bass playing. And so I had learned a bass line from that.

I have his bass guitar signed by him in the other. It's a replica, but it's, it's the one that he used on the roof. And it's he signed it. That's so awesome. And he's underrated. He's underrated. Because everybody is so, you know, fast and slapping. and he can play anyway yeah so um so we're going to do that and then but there's another song that

i heard is return of the mac i love mart morrison right so i'm going to do that return of the mac yeah so i'm going to tell i hand and i go do i love that song i know i don't know why but i know maybe a month ago i just was kind of listening and i went i love that song i know it's it's a song Every time you hear, you got to play it. So I hand to let you go. Yes, I didn't. What is it? Well, I thought I told you so, but I guess you didn't know.

As I said, the story goes, baby, now I got my flow. And I knew it from the star. A baby, when you broke my heart that I had to come again and show you that I'm real. You lie to me. All those times you said that I love you. You lied to me, but I tried, but I tried. You lied to me. I love it.

Even though you know I die for you, you lied to me. But I cried, but I cry, cry, cry. Come on. Now everybody's going to go listen to it. Totally. So when you started to get in acting, what was the acting bug? Where did that come from? I was in at Pasadena City College for two years, and I went.

I went to, I was starting psychology, then I went, psychiatry, psychology, that I went to, um, um, um, communications, radio and TV producing. And I found a love for directing. And so then, uh, I moved up to San Francisco. And I was going to go to San Francisco State. Got accepted, but I got a job and then I dropped out. I was having the time of my life. Right. And so when I got back down to L.A. I knew this guy from high school, good friend in high school. His dad was assistant director on the Mary Tyler Moore Show. In fact, the last two years of the Mary Tyler Moore show in the newsroom, you'll see me in the background. And so through a couple of tricks of fate, they encouraged me to get into, to do commercials, get a commercial agent. And he says, you know, because it's going to take a while for you to get a directing thing. We really like the way you act, you know, do this. And once I got into acting, I just fell in love with it.

I went back to school and I started that. I always thought I could do the directing thing later. And I'm glad I did because I understood actors a lot better. And so I was able to navigate that pretty easy. That's amazing. What's amazing is I know you did Neutrogena commercial. You were the face of Nutrugina? No, no, the voice.

Oh, you're the voice in Newtragina. T-Gel shampoo. For how long? Oh, it was a year. It was a year. Good money, though, huh? No, it was decent. It was decent.

Because you never get those. Unless you're a big name at the time or something like that. Or that commercial, the, um, the progressive. Progressive. Unless you were the face of. Oh, yeah. You know. Like flow.

Like flow. Yeah. Or Dennis Hayesbert. Right. Or, obbies. we have the meats it has been 30 years he's been doing that I mean how much money

is he making yeah good Lord you were in Rocky uncredited first first gig real gig who is the scene with it was a couple of scenes with Apollo Creed Carl who just

passed away yeah and then it was supposed to be only a couple of days in his office we were like his bodyguards this other guy and I wait that you're in the office while he's he's figuring out what he's going to do yeah yeah now we're going to give it to yeah now you got a there was a couple of scenes and there's a couple of that i'm not in there's a couple i am in then there was uh we were with him at the rink right uh at the

ring right they was when he was fighting and that was really fleeting uh but it was uh it was a great thing because for whatever we think of Sylvester Stallone, he really had a vision about it and he was going to stick to his guns. And I remember in between shots when he was doing the fights, he was on the table getting the massage and writing and rewriting scenes. Wow. I mean, that guy is one of the hardest working. Yeah. I mean. And I met him. We did, I met him again 10 years later, I mean 10 years ago, I was doing a movie called Shade and it was a poker scene and he was like one of the poker guys and I was sitting next to him and I said, I got to tell you something. And he says, oh yeah, and he, you know, he remembers me or he said he did and I said,

well, you know, I just remember. I told him that story. And he says, yeah, he says, nobody wanted that show. Nobody wanted that movie. The producers. Nobody. I mean, they didn't want the director. the studio didn't want it. And he said there was a scene, and I didn't know this, there was a scene that he really had to shoot. Right. And they said, no.

You can't have that. No. It was going to cost him like an extra $20,000. I mean, it was something ridiculous. And they said no. And he convinced them to give him one take. And if he didn't get it in one take and tried to do another take,

there was a guy at the general. that was literally going to pull the plug. Wow. That's, you know, that is great confidence. Great story. And he got, he got the scene and it was, it was important. Wow. Yep.

Do you remember auditioning for Worf? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Was it, were you nervous? No. No. It was one of those auditions where you went in and you just had confidence. Well, there was a whole thing that goes along with that.

But from the time I started, I went to acting school, but they never taught you how to get the job. They taught you how to act. And I could act, but I was having a problem getting the job, the cold readings. Right. And so I went to a class, Brian Reese on Fountain Avenue. And I went to that class, and it just opened me up. And so we were doing cold readings every week. And as you know, if you're doing cold readings every week, you know, one more is gravy.

right and so I and I knew the show very well because I grew up on it and I loved it and knew all the characters and so it was just actually just another audition that I went to not that I didn't want to do it I was like going oh my God but I had been doing really well yeah I've been getting a lot of stuff you're on chips for a series you were on you know you done a lot of stuff yeah and after that you know at that time I'd go out for there was a lot of auditions and I go out for there was a lot of auditions and I go out for three and I'd get two I go out for one and I get it you know I go out for two and you were very confident I was yeah and so it was very fast it wasn't like the original I mean the um the rest of the guys because they had months of audition months really long time so you just

had one audition or you had a callback I had one audition where I think it was 15 or 16 other guys and then You remember any of the other guys? Sure, there was Well, the two that I do remember Well, there was a guy named Gene Who's a good friend and he was in there But, you know, it was those days

We all knew each other Because there weren't, you know Oh, he's here, he gets everything Yeah, or we'd go, he got that one, great He's off the list now Yes, yes, I know that Yeah, and so And so a bunch of guys

But James Avery Who was the Fresh Prince of Beller The grandfather and another guy named James Watkins, Jr. Or James Watson, James Watson, James Watkins, Jr. And so I saw those guys. And then I get a callback. And it's just three of us.

And it's James Avery, me, and James Watkins. And they have us go in twice and come out. And then they said, okay, thank you guys. And they said, Michael, we have a video that you sent us and we want to give it back to you. Could you hold on a second? And I go, yeah. And then everybody leaves, and I'm waiting around.

You know, I'm thinking about what I'm going to have for lunch. And they come out and they said, the director comes out and he goes, it's going to be nice working with you. Right there? That never happens. Yeah, right there. Usually they call an agent. They have their, you know, their talks.

No. You're the guy. And they got on the phone and called me. agent from the office. And they were very happy. And that day, I think the reason they had to do it is that they had to get me in makeup that day. They had to start doing the test. And you had no idea what this was going to entail. I knew the makeup. I knew the makeup. It was going to be a lot, but I didn't mind. And really? Yeah. And I went to, I went to Michael Westmore and had the makeup test that day. We did, I think it was a week.

makeup tests. How many hours was it to get in the makeup? Three hours. Three hours for the entire run. Towards the end, no. Towards in it was about an hour and a half. They got it down. They had probably two people working on you. No, they had one person, but the problem, what happened is that my skin started to rebel the second season. And so they had to make some changes. Wow. Do you remember your first day on set coming in this Wharf? Yeah, I totally do. What was it like? It was because I wasn't part of the group. It was sort of like being that guest actor where you just come in.

The groups, they're off doing their thing and they've cemented relationships and everything like that. She's going to be nervous. No, not at all. I was like, I was looking forward to it because I was just kind of going, oh, this is going to be cool. The guy says, the guy goes, okay, and Michael, you do this and do this and do this. And I stood there and I, Jonathan walks in and I say something to him. I do the scene with him and that's the end of it. But you put on a voice, you do a different voice.

The first two episodes was this voice. And then Gene came into me and said, you know, we got to do something about your voice. It sounds too American. And so I went home and I came up with three voices. And when I got to the war voice, he goes, that's it. That's the voice. Okay. And that's how I got.

out the voice. Wow. Did you dub the other two episodes? No. You just kept it in and it just evolved. Do you think that this character was something that you got right away, you knew what it was, or did it take time to evolve into what you knew, would it all, would it became helpful? Actually, I have a thing that I do, which is I give the character a backstory. No matter what they say, I give the character unless they say they give me a backstory this is the backstory but jean was very good he said hey michael you know just make the character of your own because i ask him what do you want from this thing from this character and he said just make the character of your own i go okay and i realized that the other actors were all very comrades you know and we're going out in space and they liked each other

And, oh, you know, this is funny. And, you know, I mean, it was this really nice group. And I went, I'm going to do the opposite. And that's how the wharf came along. He was an outsider. He was angry. He was an outsider. And he loved being an outsider because he felt he was better than everybody.

And he just didn't like to be, didn't like to be given orders. He would do him. He'd carry him out. But he'd bristle. at everything. But in terms of hanging with the cast and all this, where you method,

where you wouldn't hang out with them? Oh, no, no, no. You could easily turn it on and turn it off. Yeah, but the thing is they didn't, they didn't see me. They didn't know who I, you know, out of makeup for a couple of weeks because I was there before everybody

and I left after everybody left. So they didn't see me for, I mean, I come on the set and a lot of them are just going, I go, hi. And they go, what? What? Yeah.

I mean, you look completely, different totally different it's crazy we'd never recognize you no isn't that good perfect the people come up to you no now now they even now uh a lot well during this during the run no but once you started doing interviews and things like that once we started doing the movies then there was a lot of interviews you know national interviews where people would see and they they would i'd get more um play that way people would say, yeah. But before then, no. You buy a pair of socks, that's two socks. You buy a pair of Bomba socks, that's four socks. Because one purchased is one donated. Sox are the number one most requested clothing

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Yeah, mine too. It's awesome. Rosie's Puppy Fresh Breath. Get it on Amazon today. Did you ever feel? feel because I'm sure I went through this with playing Lex Luthor, but did you ever feel like a time where you were just like, I'm done with this? I don't want to do this anymore. I'm looking at you shaking your head and I find it astonishing. No. That there's not one moment, two hours

in a makeup knowing you have three and you've done a hundred episodes, you're thinking, I'm, I'm ready to be done with this. You know, I think there's two things. You know, my upbringing, very kind of middle class, you know, you go to work and you work until they tell you to go home, you know, or until they tell you we don't want you anymore, but you go to work. And so, and also in those days, for me at least, and maybe it's different for a lot of actors, but, you know, being a black actor, you know, those things don't come along. Yeah. At all. And so if you're lucky enough to get on a show that's, going, you know, being in makeup is nothing. I mean, that's like, who cares? What was your average

day length? I get there at 3.30 in the morning. Yeah. And then I would leave probably nine or ten. At night? Yeah. Well, that's 16 hours. So how do you time to learn lines? There's plenty of time. There's plenty of time. Doesn't seem like it. Oh, yeah. I mean, you're, you know, there's lunchtimes and there's breaks and stuff like that. You know, it's not.

Were you exhausted? No. You were never tired. I mean, you were tired, I'm sure, but. No, not really. Not really. I mean, the weekends come along and my weekends were to myself. And so I recharge then.

Were some of the other actors exhausted? I don't know. You didn't see them kind of like, oh. Let me tell you some. that I think that we all were the same way in terms of that way of we have a job that's a great way to think about it

it really is I got a job you know like and a good job yeah you know so I do know that the first six months was a little rough because it seemed to be that people were were really jocping

for position And because I was the low man on the totem pole, it was very difficult to sort of have the power to say something, you know? Right. And it became very clear. And I actually, there was a moment there. That was a moment that I was kind of going, I call my agents. And I said, I just don't think this is going to work. This is like too difficult politically.

You know, not the work, but just the politics was a bit on the difficult side. And to their credit, and I, I'm very pragmatic, and they said, Michael, we understand, give it a year. After a year, if you still feel that way, I said, yeah, okay, I'll tell you what, I'll take your suggestion, but if I say no, I don't want to hear a discussion about it. I don't want you to, you know, sit me down and try to convince me. And they said, okay, you got a deal. So it worked. It worked. You saw things change.

A lot. Yeah. A lot. You felt like you were part of the gang. Well, not part of the gang, but I felt like that the producers and the writers liked my character because they started to write some really, really good stuff. And you're not going to get a show every, you know, out of 26. I'll get five, four, five.

right out of 26 but those four or five were great episodes when did yeah when did you realize people really are responding to my character this is oh not not for not until they asked me to come back to a deep space really yeah was that like season four no deep space was after seven seven years wait they called you back to when no uh We did seven years. We did a movie and then they called me back to do Deep Space right after we did the first movie, which was 90. And that's when you realized, what was it that you felt sort of like that? That the producers and the fans were in sync that this character is worth the trouble.

Because, you know, I'm a pretty good negotiator and they don't like that. Right. And he was, he was worth the trouble to bring him back to, to help with Deep Space Nine, to add to that show so that, you know, they could go for their seven years. And at that point, I went, okay, the guy has, you know, there's something there, whatever that is. What about, did you know you were going to ask to do Picard? No. He really had no clue. No one said, hey, season three, we're bringing you in.

Oh, God, no. You think that they would give you a little notice like, hey. No, I got to tell you, that's a very long story, too. But I was, it's a funny thing that I was asked several times to be part of that new universe. But because of just circumstances, just that sort of, you know, that one thing that happens, you know, nothing to do with me. but just something happens like on Discovery. They said, hey, we want you to come back and do this character. It would be great.

We'll show you that. Scripts, everything. I was talking to the producer. The producer gets fired. And they bring in a whole other crew. So it's those type of things. So that was going on for a long time. And then one time, you know, I just went, okay, that's it.

You know, I'm not going to think about this anymore. And then they called all of us. And they said, we want you all to come back at the same time. Wow. I mean, we were all like, what, huh? Sure. Everyone was like, yeah. Why?

Was it Patrick? Was it that it was a final goodbye? It was, it just seemed intriguing. What was it that brought you back? They paid us so that we couldn't say no. we could not say no. No, it's not astronomical by no means. But it was enough money to say, I'm coming back.

My thing was, I don't know about the other people, but my thing was, that's fine and I'd like to do it. But it's got to be interesting. And I can't be background. I can't be standing there stoic and mad, scowling. You know, the guy has got to have an arc. it doesn't have to take up the whole show but whatever he's doing it has to be an interesting arc and they did give it to me it was lovely that michelle heard was was amazing to work with and we had a great time and our characters were you know meld very and so it was it was fantastic

do you think in your heart of hearts you're done with the character do you think that hey i i think that wharf is one of the characters uh the speaker for myself. I think he always has a place somewhere. And you'd always consider it. Totally. If it's interesting, yeah. Wow. If it's interesting. You have, I mean, have you always had such a great attitude? I mean, your parents must have been great raising you, like really taught you the, like what you're supposed to be doing and what, you know, how to do it and how to, I mean, you just have a very, you look like you don't stress a lot. Well, I've been on this journey since my prostate thing about, about, about,

stress and, you know, how stress causes a lot of diseases. But the one thing is is that I've had a, I have a strong family. And we were raised very, we were raised strict, as they say. And, you know, like I said, we weren't, we weren't poor, but we weren't rich. And so we just appreciated everything. And, you know, also, you know, what we do. Like, I'll tell you an interesting thing. My family always keeps me in check.

Always. They'll look at me like, really? You're telling me this. Because there was a, there was a, and you know this. When you go to, what do they call it, business affairs at the studio. You know how they are. and how they treat you like you're nothing like you know he's lucky to be here yep he's not even that good you know oh oh yeah oh i've been i've been down that road oh my god i've been down a few times

to it it's like really and i don't get you know i just go they said that he goes yeah my lawyer who's you know ralphi and so anyway um and so they said there was a a thing that they wanted to do with the episodes. And we said, no. I said, that's not the way it's supposed to be. And so they were offering, like, not your salary, but less than your salary for, you know, if you worked a certain amount. And so I'm going, my cousin, my cousin Donald were talking.

And I go, yeah, you know, they want to do this. I can't believe it. You know, they want to, you know, they want to, you know, they want to. want to pay me this instead of that. And he goes, Michael, how much are they going to pay you for like a couple of hours? And I go, uh, I see what you're saying. Calling you out. I go, yeah.

And I call my agent. Okay, we'll do it. And luckily they, we, we, we voice of reason. Voice of reason always. And they've always kept me that way. And, you know, they, they, everybody I know that isn't. in the business and that is in the business they have a lifestyle you know and they're they're they can feed their kids and send their kids of school um and it makes me not complain about somebody wanting to pay me

to do to do something you know how to do i know how to do and i love doing and i have a passion for you. Why why do people love Star Trek? You got to ask every person that love Star Trek that question. For me, on a personal level,

when it was on in the 60s, it was a morality play every week. You know, it was a beginning, middle, and end every week. And it was a morality play. And in those days, because science fiction was still relegated to the, you know, B-movie kind of genre, they could do so much stuff because they weren't mainstream.

And they spoke to racism. They spoke to balance of power. They spoke to all of these things. Sexism. They spoke to, I mean, if you look at these episodes, it's like religion. one of my best my favorite lines was they were debating this society where it was like the Romans had never lost and the whole planet was governed by Roman but there's this these sun worshippers that were worshipping you know and at the end of it they say you know it's kind of weird that they worship the sun you know that doesn't make

sense. And O'Hura says, he got it wrong, you know, to all the guy standing around, you got it wrong. He says, they're not worshiping the sun in the sky, the worship in the son of God. And they just all went, holy shit, you know. It was, and so you could do that. And we, we love that. And plus, you know, you saw O'Hura, you know, a black woman. Yeah. Oh, yeah. A beautiful black woman. Oh, yeah. And you saw Chekhov and Sulu, and it was a multicultural. Yes. And they continue that.

And escapism. And escapism. And then with our show, too, they continued. You know, it was a morality play every week. Yeah, I love that. Except for one episode, Code of Honor. What about it? I actually thought it was maybe the.

third or fourth episode, I actually thought that we weren't going to make it from that episode. I can't, I'm not, it's not that I can't tell you. You got to watch it. If you can just find it someplace and sit down and watch it, it was, it was of one of the worst episodes. Really? That's the one episode you think of when you're like that. That's code of honor. And I don't think they did it to make a bad episode. I think that they actually, when they went through the whole process, they went, this is a good idea. This is a really good idea.

Oh, my God. And it wasn't. And I think they were watching the show that, you know, put together on everything. And they went, oh, my God. oh my god because i tell you they aired it and they took it out of rotation it wasn't in any of the reruns wow ryan i got to watch that you got to watch it um tell me quickly about the uh the comic that you wrote oh uh i got um a call because i had done a um a character voice uh john henry steel and um they

just had an idea that wouldn't it be interesting to have me involved in this six issue volume that they have out and um they called my agent and they said well what does he want to do and i said you know what i like writing so i'd like to write it and it was it was better than than my other experience with writing because i wrote a i didn't write a book but they put my name on it and took out everything that I wrote and yeah it was it was horrible um but it was I'd say 95% you know everything that I wanted but they had to do as editors and they know the character and they know the thing they had to say Michael we need to put this in or we have to do this or you have to explain this.

There was one thing where I said I wanted one of his niece to fall in love with I think his name is Connor. And they said, well, that's a very good idea,

but she's a lesbian. Can't fall in love with a lesbian? And they said, no. And I go, okay. It's not, you know, it just was a thought I had. Right. But they were, Very good. And I really liked the way it turned out because, you know, the character wasn't about, you know, going out there and flying around. He really was introspective because there's a old cartoon that was bizarre and racist at the same time about John Henry.

And he was fighting against the machine, you know. Yeah. And he, whoa, and he was this. and all I want to do is lay track, you know, and I'm a steel driving man and he fights against the machine and fucking dies. His fucking heart bursts.

Right. You know? And I go, well, I don't like that. And so I told him, I said, you know, I wanted the story to be that he says, you know what? And he says, you know, this John Henry, And Lada goes, what are you talking about? Well, you know, he's fighting against the machine.

And the machine wins, basically. You know? And so his armor is that machine. And he doesn't want to lose himself. Right. To the armor. Now, where can people see this? At any, any comic book store.

Any comic book store. Or online. And it's called Steelworks. Steelworks. Yeah. And you wrote all six? yeah wow it was fantastic yeah i can tell how passionate you are but you know the funny thing is that was and that's the thing i love about the business that sometimes you know you you really

appreciate every part of it because uh i was writing and said michael we want to show you what it looks like and they showed me and went my god that's fantastic you know it looked really good these are great artists it's awesome i can just Just come up with this stuff. Yeah, something you can't even see. Can't even see. Yeah. All right, this is called shit talking with Michael Dorn.

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for SLR Stellist lenses at your child's next visit. Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for four dollars new four piece french toast sticks bacon or sausage wrap biscuit or english muffin sandwiches small hot coffee and more limited time only at participating wendy's taxes extra patreon.com slash inside of you if you want to support the podcast and give back uh brian h what's your favorite aircraft you've ever flown and it just amazes me that you're also you have time to do all this stuff and you're a pilot and you own a plane but go ahead f-16 you flew in f-16

a couple of times, a few times. What did you love about it? It was, you sit in it and you're reclined. And a little stick, but the turning and the G forces, it's like a pure dog fighter. Like where a guy, if you're here and a guy is on your tail, by the time you get to the full circle, you're all the way around inside his turning radius. Can you handle the G-Force? How much G-force can you handle?

In the F-16, it was 9-Gs. Gee. Yeah, and I got a little, they give you a little pin, a little 9-G pin. Is there someone there in case you passed out? Oh, no, no. I'm in the back seat. Oh, you are, but they let you take over.

Yeah, no, we did dog fights and air air air refuelings and stuff like that, And they let you fly, especially if you know how to fly, they let you fly. Wow. What a damn tree. But you had a G-suit. And in the other airplane, I flew with the Canadians. I flew with the Blue Angels. And in those, they don't have G-suits.

So I was able to do seven and a half without passing out. Wow. Have you ever passed out? Yeah, a couple of times with the Blue Angels. I passed out too. I was in a mig. And I was in the back. This guy was trying to get me to do this movie.

And he goes, all right, take over the controls. And I took over and he goes, do this and moved to that a little less. And he was kind of showing me and I was taking over the control. I could feel the controls in the plane. And then he goes, all right, let's go for a ride. And he starts going. And he goes, all right, you're going to fit. And he just goes up.

And then he did this turn. And I just go. Yeah. Who was the guy? Do you remember? I don't remember his name. I could look it up. I have it.

I have the video of it. But it was, it was incredible. Yeah. I'm a little claustrophobic. So up there, it's tough. Yeah. You have to, you know. That was my first time, and I was just going for it.

And I was like, this is a lot on your first time. No, the Blue Angels, it was like when we take off, they go, boom, and I just, blah. And then the second time, it was funny, they got the video, and they edited it out my second time because they said it was just too violent. You know, just I went, you know, and they said, they can't show that to people or else people wouldn't go. Wow, you're like, I want to see it. I really wanted to see it. What I know. Melissa M.

I love the cartoon gargoyles. Was this your first animation and how did you approach your character? No. My first animation was, I did a lot of animation. But the one that stuck out was I Am Weasel. There was an I Am Weasel, Cow and Chicken. And I did a lot of that. And then there was a lot of Warner Brothers cartoons and then that.

And you also did tons of video games. You did fall out. You did a bunch of stuff. Mutant Ninja Turtles? Mutant Ninja Turtles. Right? Did a bunch of those. Yeah.

Gen T. What has been your most meaningful interaction with the Star Trek fan? Anything you can remember that some fan came up and said something to you? Oh, totally. There was one guy that, that, it was in Vegas and we went to a, they invited me to a Klingon party. I go to the party. everyone's dressed up his klingons. He's really pretty fun.

And this one guy comes up and he goes, hey, Michael, you know, I really, and his stuff was great. He looked great. Oh, he looked fantastic. And I go, God, you're, that's, and he goes, he said, you saved my life. And, you know, I never heard that,

but you don't really kind of, you know, like, what do you mean? And he goes, well, he said he lost everything to drugs and alcohol, lost his job, lost his family, lost everything. and he had nothing, and he just loved Wharf's bravery, and he loved that he was honorable, and despite everything that's happening to him, being an outsider and all that type of stuff, he said he just clicked with him, and he said he got his stuff together, he's working, he's sober,

he's got a family and he says you did this and i went i said thank you you did it but you know i'll take it do you ever get emotional or do you try to hold that's when i got emotional you did get emotional that's when i got emotional yeah it's tough it's tough that's happened to me before and you're just like you're like thank you so much i mean that means i'm so glad you and but sometimes i just can't control and it and it sticks with you for a while yeah you know he walks away or I go by and I'm signing it or just still going, you know. And there was another time, it was in Philadelphia. I remember this old Philadelphia.

We were selling our pictures. And this guy, Orthodox Jewish guy, comes up with his daughter. Lovely person. Sarah, I never forget her name. And his name is Malachi. And he comes up and he says, how much are there? And I tell them. And he said, oh, God, I don't have that.

And she looks so, oh, I don't know, sit here. Yeah. And she was so happy. I said, here, just don't say it. Yeah. And he said, you know, I really, I really identify with your character. What are you talking about? He says, because in his religion, because he is not a certain type of Jewish or he doesn't follow a certain type of

Orthodox or whatever it is. You know, they don't consider him a real Jew. And, you know, I'm looking at him going, well, you have the this and this and, no, he didn't have that. I didn't have that. He had the string down the side. Right, right. They're going to kill me for that. What is that?

I should know, I'm a terrible Jew. And I should know that. And, you know, with the Yamaca and everything. And I'm going, you're kidding. And he observes. I said, you have. He says, oh, yeah, but I'm not that kind. And so he felt like an outsider.

Like Wharf. Yeah. And I went, well, you know something, man? I'm not, I can't talk to you about religion, but just know that you are, you know, everything that you think you are. I would have looked at him and said, you're more of a Jew than I am. I wish I had thought of that, you know. Hey, I'm not even close. I'm not even close to Vian.

Yeah. This has been great. I hope you had a good time. I did. So easy to talk. Is there anything coming up that you want to talk about or? Actually, yes. I wrote a Western.

What? You like Westerns? Are you? I love Westerns. I grew up on Westerns. Favorite Western of all time. Oh, that's too tough. Good, the bad, me ugly.

No, that's too tough. I'm forgiven. No. Well, okay. The John Ford Westerns, the three, the trilogy, Real Grandi, Shoe, Oriola Ribbon, and Fort Apache. That's one. The one that I can watch every time it comes on was Rio Bravo, which I'm like. Okay. And then Magnificent Seven, the original. I read in TV Guide when they had TV Guide one time they said oh it was you know it wasn't very good what are you kidding me so you wrote a Western I wrote a Western and Unforgiven oh yeah that was the last one I was just like okay yeah so yeah I wrote one and we've been trying to get it through the normal channels which as you know is really brutal yeah it's it's hard breaking. A producer told me, oh, it's going to break your heart. And so I decided to do

another avenue that people do is they'll do a very small movie. And, you know, with your friends, not a lot, make it a, like, claustrophobic, a couple of actors, you know, in a one set and then take it out to the festivals. Yeah. And so I decided that You know, my wheelhouse is science fiction. It's Star Trek. So it's not Star Trek, but I'm using Star Trek actors. And they are the core. And it's only three.

Only three of us. I love that. And so the way I wrote it, it's really claustrophobic. Put it in a little set someplace, not a bunch of dials and stuff going on, and have it a character piece. And so that's what I'm finishing writing. that. And once that gets done, then I go to the next stage, which is to get it filmed. That's awesome. Yeah. So that's what I'm trying to do.

Doing what you love. Yeah. It's great. I know. Well, this has been a real tree. I'm so glad. I really appreciate you coming finally. It's been a long time coming. Yeah. But it's done. I totally enjoyed it, man. Yeah, you're awesome. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. With Amex Platinum, access to exclusive Amex pre-sale tickets can score you a spot track side. So being a fan for life turns into the trip of a lifetime.

That's the powerful backing of Amex. Pre-sale tickets for future events subject to availability and varied by race. Turns and conditions apply. Learn more at Amex.ca. slash Yanex. It was great. He's great. Yeah.

Yeah. I really liked that. I know there's a lot of Star Trek fans out there. So I'm curious to see what the message board will say and what they think. Hopefully I ask some of the right questions. But remember, this podcast is a more about. life and story and facing adversity and all that stuff so it's not always about like all star track and like why don't he ask him this because i i you know i love star trek but i wasn't as big of a

fan as most of you are out there so i'll admit that no he's just got a cool story i mean just i mean i like when you get guys in here who are of a certain age who have been around and have stories to tell and yeah of you know how things were and you know how they're dealing with it now and aging with grace yeah i i love that i love that because a lot times you see people you know his age you know not make it that long and their life you know sort of they don't take care of themselves and and see what he does to improve his life and continue on so thank you uh michael and thanks to everybody for listening today again if you enjoyed it give the podcast a chance and subscribe and listen every week our conversations there's there's so many in the can that you can go back

and listen to and i really appreciate you and now it's time for those top tiers the top tiers who give back to the show in more ways than more ways than one yes yeah these are the top tiers who get their name shouted out i send boxes to them patreon dot com slash inside of you and here we go we're going to do it we're going to read them i love all these ladies and gents all these peeps uh nancy d little lisa ukeiko jill e brian h nico p rob l jason dream leave us sophy and Sophie, hello. That was English or something. Raj C.

Jennifer N. Stacey L. Jamal F. Jan, B. Mike and El Dan Soprimo, Dan. How are you? Ryan?

Sorry, wrong page. 99 more. San Diego M. Leanne P. Maddie S. Kendrick F. Belinda N.

Dave H. Dave. Hello, Dave. Brad D. Ray H. Tabitha T. Tom and Talia M. Betsy D.

Rianan and C. Corey K. Devnexon. Michelle A. Yes. All these wonderful people. I feel like I just know these people. I kind of do know all these people. At this point,

it's like, I'm not only reading their names, but a lot of them I've met at cons. I'll probably see a lot of them in New Jersey. You know, a lot of people were talking about having a, a Patreon hangout. And the problem is,

is we just don't have any time because Tom gets there late Friday and I get there. And I'd love to do that, but I think there would just be too many people to do it this time. But we're going to do one next year for sure. At one of the cons,

we'll have a meetup. we'll decide and give you guys a heads up but this is going to be you know busy time with pictures and autographs and our show saturday night and it'll just be too much i think and uh i want to put a good on good show on for saturday night in fact the show is supposed to be an hour and a half our small nights but we've got a lot of people coming and we're going to make it at least two hours so we're just going to it doesn't say that it says an hour and a half or an hour but we're going to make it two hours. Nice. So what I'm saying, Ryan, is these people are going to get sick of us. You are going to get so sick of us, you are not going to know what to do. You are going to get just like, we've had enough

Smallville. We don't need any more Smallville after this weekend. Where do we stop? Michelle A. Michelle A. Don't ever stop with Michelle A. Jeremy C. Mr. M. Eugene and Leah. Love Eugene and Leah in the Salty Ham. Mel S. Eric H. H. Oracle and Amanda R. William K. William K. Kevin E. Jore L. Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Mike F. Jules M. Jessica B. Caley J. Charlene A. Marion Louise L. Romeo the band. Frank B. Gen T. Nicky L. April R.M. Randy S. Claudia. Claudia. Rachel D. I don't forget, Jen, the Carolina girl. Nicked up of you. Stephanie and Evan. Stefan.

Charleney what accent is that That was a roughly Australian Don G don't G don't G Don G don't G Jenny B, 7, Zix Jennifer R Tina E

NG Tracy Keith B Heather and Greg Hi Heather and Greg And hi Ellie K and Elizabeth L And Ben B Jemann P.R C, Sulton, Ingrid C

Brandon C, Ronit L Ronit L Mrs Lex Luther Who's Mrs. Lex Luthor? I'd like to know Jesse Jay thank you all I appreciate you I couldn't do this without you thanks for being patrons and supporting the show and and I just got back from Vegas so I'm a little little tired today but I can imagine huh I can imagine but it was

fun yeah I'm not a partier I don't I think I might have had one drink the whole weekend I had a pinia collada nice by the pool because it was fruity tasting yeah but but I had fun I had a lot of fun I saw some friends so it's good connecting connecting is just to just to stop what you're doing and just enjoy so thank you for everything and from the hollywood hills in hollywood california i am michael rosenbaum uh i'm ryan tias little wave to the camera we love you and as always uh be good to yourself i'll see you next week Football season is here Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience from the pros

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