Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - MICHAEL JAI WHITE: Lucky to Be Alive, the Truth About SPAWN & Never Losing a Street Fight

Episode Date: September 29, 2026

Michael Jai White (Spawn, Black Dynamite, The Dark Knight) joins me this week for the longest conversation I have ever had on this show, and I did not want it to end. Michael opens up about growing up in Brooklyn and Bridgeport where violence was right outside the doorstep, being on his own since 14, and the lunch with a friend who served 30 years in prison that made him realize how close he came. We get into where his anger really came from and the mindset that ended it, his honest feelings about Spawn, what Heath Ledger was like when cameras were not rolling, playing Mike Tyson, and the night he got jumped by five men and walked away. He also breaks down the generational conditioning he caught working on himself, and why he calls poverty a gift. Thank you to our sponsors: 🧠 Mod: https://mod.com/ ✨ OneSkin: Get 15% off OneSkin with the code INSIDE at https://www.oneskin.co/INSIDE #oneskinpod 🔹 Blue Chew: bluechew.com + “inside” __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou⁠⁠ 👕 Inside Of You Merch: ⁠⁠https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: ⁠⁠https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🤣 TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast⁠⁠ 📘 Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🐦 Twitter: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod⁠⁠ 🌐 Website: ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca. Or call 1866-5-1-2,600. Terms and conditions apply. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. And I just want to say shout out to everybody who's continued to listen to this podcast or even the new folks who tuned in and what's taking you so long.

But we've been doing this, you know, 450 guests, eight years. And I just want to say thanks for keeping this going and supporting the podcast. And really the patrons. My patrons, patreon.com slash inside of you. Patreon.com slash inside of you. Yeah. The patron's really, it's unbelievable. The community, the friendships that have started,

and the support for this podcast, and they keep it going. And there's so many perks for a patron to be a patron inside of you. You'd be on the show, you ask questions to the guests, Zooms, gifts for me every couple months, and so much more. YouTube's, like we do a lot of things. And we do a thing called doing the work where you send a video of you doing the work and like what you're working on and Mentally and you know working with your mental health and it's it's just really fascinating and it's turned into something bigger than I

Something I just didn't I didn't think it would turn into and I'm Pleasantly surprised and I thank you guys so thank you if you want to keep this show going join Patreon Patreon.com slash inside of you and I'll send you a message right after and Ryan is here and And I couldn't do this podcast without him. Or could you? No, I don't think I could. I wouldn't want to. I could just hit record and leave.

Yeah, that would be lame. I'd be so lame, bro. Bro. Yeah. No, I'm happy to be here. Yeah. It's, uh, I mean, you know, it's a pretty easy gig, right? Yeah, this is perks.

We're never in here more than an hour and a half. Sometimes we're just here for a half an hour. But, uh, it's good times. And it's good for my mental health, too. it really helps me and I hope it helps you so I hope you're doing something for your mental health and paying attention listening to your body and all that stuff you got a great podcast today uh michael jai white is here he was phenomenal um I'm honestly saying phenomenal this is the kind of guy you want on your side he is a tough man but he's been through it all and he's got a heart

of gold what a great story and I think you're going to really love this if you already love him You're going to love them even more. So Michael, thanks for doing this. Lastly, before we go, the Inside of You Online Store. Go there right now. Get yourself some good goodies, podcast, Tumblr's and Smallville stuff. There's tons of great stuff.

Just go there and check it out. Trust me. Inside of you, online store, and on the Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum, cameos and all that stuff. Without further ado, right, right. Are you doing well? I'm doing great.

Are you? All right. You're in there, man. We're just doing the thing. thing. We're just doing our thing, man. I've always got so high. I'm just doing my thing, man. I'm just doing my thing, man.

Oh, then I'm sending this to my friend, Matt. There we go, a little texty text. A little texting. I'm about to go shoot a little movie. My friend Bill Wordy, his little movie. I can't say the title, but I'm excited. I'm a little nervous. I'm excited for you for this, TBH.

Yeah, I'm either going to hate it and go, I really don't want to act again, or I'm going to go, you know that wasn't too bad you've been thinking about this a while you've been like rehearsing it just impromptu just walking in the room and walking around the house I think you're ready I think this will be interesting for you

yeah I think I was ready as I'll ever be I think I just you know what it is I would I never lose is the perfectionism like I want to be fucking on I want to fucking know it I want to fucking go in there and kill it sorry for F bombing constantly but I haven't really acted it in a while by choice.

And because I was like, I don't know if I really love it anymore. Being on set all the time doing this and learning the lines. But maybe this will give me a little spark. I'll let you know. I think something like this, doing it with a friend, probably a lower pressure set,

different energies, like different vibes. You'll sort of, you'll feed off the crew. And yeah, and it's it's low pressure. It'll also be like riding a bike, I would imagine. for you. Yeah, I think so too. I think I'm not, you know, I just want, I just hope that I have afterwards I say, you know what, I want to do this again. I hope that's the case. I think a little

indie like this is exactly the right kind of move for that. And that's what I told my agents too. I go, I got to do something really like, just a small little fun thing before I could go into something bigger. I can't commit to something big before seeing if I really want to do it. So this is, Maybe what that will take is me really enjoying this. And we'll see where we go. Yeah. You know, life short, we don't know. If I decide I don't want to do it, then I don't do it.

But who knows? I don't know yet. Without further ado, let's get into this awesome podcast. Let's get inside of Michael Gai White. Where you get nervous for a role. Oh, my God. I get panicked. Do you get anxiety?

Yeah, I live with anxiety. What are you doing? I was just taking a live picture. I always get nervous. But that's fun. I look forward to it. Let's get everything out of today we can. And how much time do you have left?

And how are you going to use it well? So come on now. We would have to do another inside of you. But actually, that's kind of what you're doing, Michael. I mean, you're on this road, this journey of what's inside of you. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. What were you saying right when you got in the house? Just briefly, we were talking about horror movies.

And your wife likes horror movies. She loves them. But you have a problem, and I found this to be pretty interesting and funny. Well, I'm such a protector. And so my thought is like, I don't know, just like with self-defense, whatever. Like, my natural inclination is to outdo the killer. Like, I focus on wanting to kill the killer so bad that it just takes me out. I'm like, whoa, no, I'll just want to, you know, it's just this weird thing.

Right. And so that's with, you know, kind of think I think growing up with there's, when there's threat, my default is to outthreaten the threat. Have you always been like that? Yeah. How young, how young? From the very beginning. It's just I hated bullies. Like with passions, I hated bullies.

If anybody was getting picked on, you'd step in? I did that all the time. I mean, from my earliest memories, I could not stand bullies. And I would beat up bullies. I had a lot of aggression. and then I needed a good excuse. So bullies provided a good excuse because basically you can go to any bully and just, you know, threaten them and like, hey, so you like fighting.

Let's go. And you're not the bad guy. And so that's kind of what I would do. Man. Were the people that were picked on that were bullied that you kicked the bullies at, were they sort of very grateful? and come off to you a lot of times. I was, man, thank you.

Well, yeah, but it was my own, my own little, like, twistedness. Because it was really for me. I'm like, I grew up, I was, I know if I had grown up in this day and age, I would have, I would have had to have been on all kinds of drugs and everything. I mean, because, I mean, I really was, I really took my, you know, to my environment and, which was rough, you know, I, I didn't know I was an artist. You know what I mean?

Not that early, right? No, no. Growing up in Brooklyn and in Bridgeport, Connecticut, in rough places where, you know, any kind of weakness is exploited. You know, my waking moments was, I don't know, it's just kind of like I saw red a lot. Really?

When I was young. What do you think, Carl, is that just the environment? Yeah. Because there was so much fighting and so much, were your parents together? No, no, no. No, I think I was a very sensitive, you know, like I said, I didn't know I was an artist. And so what happens when you're in a situation like that, when it's in, you see people, you know, getting killed and, you know, things are right there.

Like violence is right outside your doorstep. You build armor. And see, you know, I had brothers. They're older. The engineers, they're just very straight down the line. not emotional people. But me, I, you know, I had this mercurial kind of attitude. And things affected me, right?

So. Yeah. What's your sign? Scorpio. Aha. Yeah. Yeah. So, like I said, you build armor because you're protecting the fragile inside.

You know, it's just like you, if you have something fragile, you put it in a safe. And you become the safe in that type of environment. So I wasn't much unlike people like Mike Tyson. and people like that to where they have this rough exterior, but inside you know that they're like, they're so loving to the people that they care about that you'd see someone like Mike Tyson and you see him, you know, go to tears

and, you know, in front of an audience because he's, he feels so much good. So it's like you grow up with this twisted thing where you go, wait a minute, I'm supposed to be this hardened guy, But I, you know, it's, but I don't feel. I feel more than any. Well, what is violence other than emotion? Yes, exactly.

So I was far more emotional than other people. Like I said, didn't know I was an artist. But you see the connection of a lot of people who are fiercely loyal, fiercely, you know, have that violent, that violent nature. And a lot of times they're artists. These guys can draw. They, you know, they have some kind of a connection to the, They have an outlet.

But like sometimes that the, the emotions overtake them or they get cut up in things. It's the two sides of the same coin. See, but it's kind of confusing a little bit because you feel so strong about things. I mean, I could go to tears seeing a dog abandoned. You know, you know. And but I could fight to damn near the death in a street. Like, you're not afraid. Yeah, remorseless.

Like, it was like, what the hell is this going on? You know, and so what, you know, to grow up to understand that that's part of the whole thing. You know what I mean? Yeah. That's part of it because if things just rolled off my back, like with my brothers, well, you know, they're not affected. Me, I couldn't take injustice. I couldn't take seeing, you know, innocent, harmed. You know what I mean?

But yeah. I understand, but were you, were you ever the kind of guy that picked fights? I picked fights with bullies. With bullies. They had to be someone who was picking on somebody else or someone, or someone who gave you lip. No, if, I mean, honestly, if somebody, I mean, that's one thing that's kind of interesting, because if a person that I felt like was smaller or couldn't really defend themselves said anything to me, I really wouldn't hurt.

Yeah, I couldn't do that because I'd look like a, a. But if someone was starting somewhere, Oh, yeah, yeah. There was, the twist of the thing is there was an enjoyment in fighting. I really enjoyed fighting. Why? What was it about it? Oh, my God.

When you're in that moment, walk me through it because, you know, most people, you know, they get hit. Their eyes are watering. They're like, I don't know what's going to, am I going to die? Am I going to, what's, you get overwhelmed. It's an overwhelming feeling. And you're in this thing. And you're like, I'm going to be exhausted.

And how am I going to fight through it? And all these things are going. through your mind right with the fight. You didn't feel that. No, the weird thing is I never felt so alive. It's like the knee-jerk reaction whenever I'm hit good is I laugh. It's not trying to intimidate anything, but it's like, like, oh shit, that hurt. You know what I mean? Yeah, they got me. Yeah, it's like I celebrate it. And it's a weird thing, but I always enjoyed fighting. It was like the

ultimate game. You know what I mean? It's like it's, I understand. I have a really strong connection with fighters because we all had this kind of a thing. And I was really weird in a way because I didn't

I was not nervous during this. I enjoyed just the immediacy of it. even if someone outweighed you or outsized you, it's still you didn't get nervous. I had this real masochistic thing where, like, I enjoyed if somebody was really good, right?

I mean, I remember in college, I, you know, I was, I went to college, I was a decathlet. Yeah. So I'm very fortunate. I was, I had gifts growing up. Yes. And so, you know, and then in college, we had this, like, triple, like, he was one of the greatest wrestlers, one of the most highest contending wrestlers in the country named Maurice. And just daily, I busted the wrestling practice and just go against this guy, 265.

He'd mash me all around the place, right? But it was just fun going against him. And then eventually, I started doing well against him. He was like, man. Yeah, but it's, I, oh, I just enjoyed that. I just enjoyed combat. It just felt good. And so even in streetwise, it, there was, it was kind of an outlet.

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we thank Mod for sponsoring the podcast. I mean as I got older I wondered if there was something wrong with me. Did you go to therapy? No, but I mean, I think it was the day and age because I think back then I would have been forced to go to therapy. But I think man, with this job that we do, it forces you to be introspective. Yeah. It forces you to see the connections that you have with others. Yeah. And from there, I understood a great deal.

And the main thing is I understood where my anger was coming from. Where was it coming from? Oh, man, it was, because I didn't know who I was, I think all anger is connected to you not knowing something, right? Anytime you're angry about anything, the first thing that comes out of your mouth is a question. What the hell is this? Why is this? It's what, when, why, how?

You know? You want answers now. Everything, it was because there's a piece of information that you're not getting, right? And so when I learned that any time I was angry, it was connected to some piece of information, I realized I'm so much more in control than I think. And so I go, what the? And then I would stop and go, let me answer. that question. And so sometimes

it's like, hey, I know the answer to that. And it's hard to get angry at something when you understand where the answer is. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I always liken it to a traffic jam, right? You're in traffic and you're pissed off because you don't know what cause it. Right. You get up

in front of it. Why does this guy slow? What's going on? Yeah, exactly. So, you know, you see there's an accident, you get past it. You're not mad anymore. Right. So you could switch that off. Exactly. You could choose. How many traffic jams, does it take before you realize it's not a conspiracy against you? That's so true.

Honestly, but that traffic jam analogy really applies in everything to me when when emotions take you a certain place. And you can decide to get in a traffic jam tomorrow or today and get pissed off. It's your choice. Or you can go, there's a logical explanation to this. Yeah. And I just don't know it yet, but this is silly for me to become angry for this. Like, let me make some calls.

Let me do this or that. Yeah. It's ridiculous. It's amazing when you could just sit back for a second go, breathe. Exactly. Okay, let's assess the situation. Okay, I can't control it. I can't change it.

Yeah. Shell it. Let's do something else. Yeah. So, I mean, honestly, from being a person who had the worst temper than I've ever witnessed, you know, to, you know, my, my youngest, my two youngest, one's 18th birthday is today. Happy birthday. Right, Niala, happy birthday, baby.

Niala? Niala? Yeah. Niala, happy birthday, Niala. She's in college now and then. She have a temper? Yeah, yeah, yeah. She can get there.

But, you know, but see the thing is, one thing I'm very happy about is, you know, she's 18, and I have a 17-year-old. And, well, about to be. be 17 and they've said, Happy birthday! Right. Oh, Morgan. Morgan, Morgan, happy birthday.

But so I'm very proud that they, Morgan has never seen me angry or raise my voice. Nealah one time. You know, when, you know, there was some conflict with her mother and I and I. Right. But I really, from where I started. Have grown. Yeah.

I really, I don't, I don't find a lot of things that trigger me. Did you ever go to jail? No. Never went to jail. All those fights, were you lucky? I'm extremely lucky. Because you get in a fight, you're going to go to jail even if you didn't start it. I'm extremely lucky.

How close were you? Oh, my God. I'm extremely lucky to be alive. And I think that's one of the reasons why I'm the happiest person I know. A couple of years ago, I reconnected with a friend that found me on Facebook. He'd done 30 years, basically, in prison. And, you know, I went back to East Coast, and we sat, and I was, you know, taking them around, introducing them people who had different businesses and get him a job. We were sitting over lunch, and he'd gone into these stories.

just about the third or fourth story they were saying and I thought he was embellishing. I'm like, no, man, dude, stop making these stories like more grand because you're used to telling him while you're locked up, you know, being entertaining. But, you know, talking about stories between he and I, like things that we've experienced.

Yeah. And I'm, you know, and this thing, I'm very, I'm a stickler on being honest. Mm-hmm. And so I was getting ready to tell him, Hey, man, I don't know how you're going to take this, but I'm going to say, you've got to stop doing this. And as he was explaining, I started remembering the things he was talking about. And then I realized, holy shit, he's telling the truth.

Not only that story, but the other ones. I just swept things under the rug. I didn't realize that, I mean, there's a lot of horror stories I could tell you. But those I forgot. And then I started really finishing his sentences. I started remembering these things. And that's where, man, I am immensely lucky that that wasn't me. There were several times, man, one thing I think is I find beauty in a lot of things that other people may not.

when you are in the streets, you know, I've been basically on my own since I was 14, there's a beauty in the ghetto that nobody ever talks about. There's a beauty in living life like there's no tomorrow, right? Living life in the moment. And that's the thing that gets addictive in that lifestyle. When people don't have anything, relationships mean a great deal. And just the moment is just so freaking alive.

When I was in college, I don't care where I went. I went to the projects. I went to the ghettos because I was addicted to that feeling. People are just so vibrant. Like, this guy's as funny as Richard Pryor. That guy is. Engaging, connecting. There's talent.

So, you know what I mean? You see a little bit in the rap world, but everybody, there's, the characters are so. Authentic. Yes. And the perspectives are pure. They don't give a damn, right? You're getting pure perspectives. You're getting, you're living in a, in a situation where it's just like, it's so special

because I think on one level, you know. know it could be taken away. And therefore, it's that. So live in the moment. Yeah. So that's the thing is that the living in the moment part is something that a lot of people don't understand that you could be these successful rappers. Why are you still hanging out in the hood?

Because it's that damn addictive. I tell you, because you're not going to get relationships like that anywhere else. Right? Still in my day, you know, where I am, those are still the relationships. that are the standard for me. Wow. You know what I mean? Yeah.

So, you know, if you haven't felt that, you don't know. So my life, my balance that I feel like, you know, that's helped me is that I take the best of that life that I, you know, bring forward with me. Of course, the downside of living in the days, you're not thinking about the future. because, you know, the moment is so vibrant. Yeah. But so what I do is I live every day I do something for the future. Once I'm done with that, I live in the moment. That's correct.

Because you'll never see that day again. Right? So that's something I wish I could do more. I really try. But like, yeah, being in the moment, just like turning off your phone, disconnecting, just go do something, just go do something different. Yeah. somebody haven't talked to in a while.

There it is. There it is. So satisfying the future and then like, you know, I always think like this analogy, it's like, you can look up in the sky and see a cloud and say that looks like rain, but what if that cloud looks like a penguin? You know what I mean? That's part of coloring your day. Yeah.

That's part of something that, you know, it's been brought to you. And just living in that moment, just. You know, like my wife and I, we go to eat. We don't know where we're going to go. You know what, just drive around? Yeah. So it's just like, yeah, let's start doing that. Yeah.

Let's just drive around until we figure out where we're going to eat. Yeah. And what we feel like? I can't plan on feeling like something. Yeah. So it's that place. Yeah. Exactly.

Adventure. You know, the world is yours. So, yeah. So that thing is like, I'm so happy that I came from that place. It's kind of like I borrowed from a Roberto Benini. when he's life is beautiful. And when he said he had the gift of poverty, I feel like that was such a gift to me.

Because when I look at things from the perspective of old Mike, man, there ain't a whole lot to be mad about. And there's a lot to celebrate. That's pretty amazing. What's more amazing is how you transitioned into, you know, because you were doing martial arts at a young age, right? When did you start martial arts? like seven or eight. And you excelled? Yeah, I mean, you know, it was therapy when I really look at it.

You know, and like I say, I, you know, I had gifts growing up. I was fast, strong, big, you know, that, all of that. And I think it's not that different from the animal kingdom where you have a pit bull that's just powerful being. And it's got to tear. It's got to act out in certain ways. And for me, and other people who were like me, you needed that outlet. And I really needed that outlet with martial arts. Probably disciplined you too. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Absolutely. You know, so, yeah, you get in there because, you know, honestly, insecurity first, you know, and hopefully you get into the right one. It teaches you really what the martial arts is really about, which is developing the individual. A lot of people think it's about kicking somebody's ass,

and that's not it. Right. Yeah, because, I mean, you may not have a fight in your entire life, but you damn sure will need discipline and, you know, health and those type of things that really that martial arts has an abundance. So then non-martial arts, you know, of course, they're going to see it as, well, can this person be this person, you know, that thing. But the thing about traditional martial arts

as far as you against yourself, really what it is, because it's about pitting yourself against obstacles and your biggest obstacle and your world is going to be you. Always. Overcoming yourself. But that's where the danger in the mystique is, because if my will is that strong and that says, I will run right through,

you and everybody else and you will not stop me you know that kind of tapping into the the resources that that every human has if you learn to marshal that that's what's what makes you dangerous yeah you know there's the tools yeah but it's that mindset that mindset is the powerful thing and that tells you know I will defeat you or I will get a third job to take care of my family. It's everything. Confidence. Yeah. Confidence and loving yourself. Yeah. You know, I mean, for me, it's been a journey of like going, I don't really like this guy and doing everything I can to make myself like my, you know, love myself. And that's been taking a long time. And was there ever a

time where you didn't love yourself and you found that, you found that? And what did it feel like? Oh, my God. I mean, there was things that, you know, I'm sad about when I think about it, there was, when I wasn't living to my potential, man, I, I justified not being here. And I did things, usually by the end of the year, if I didn't, if I didn't do what I was capable of doing and, you know, I wasn't a person that I wanted to be. And there's times I found ways to sabotage myself and I found ways to punish myself because I didn't like that person, you know. And yeah, yeah, so yeah, there was a, you know, There was dark times when I said you're capable of more than this. Yeah.

Yeah. Sometimes it takes like a hero or someone that believes in you, you know, and whoever that person was, you know, my grandparents. Mm-hmm. You know, just feeling that love, you know, feeling that I'm good enough. Yeah. Yeah. You know, everyone needs a mentor.

Everyone needs somebody. I mean, you can't do it alone, can you? No. I mean, we're all a product of our influences and, you know, when we come to crossroads and find out who we are, you know, I mean, I didn't know who I was growing up, but thinking, okay, you know, I'm this eclectic person. I'm supposed to pick a side, right? And, you know, I was just misfit. Like, I was. Yeah. Yeah, I was a misfit for, you know, my family and everywhere. I was like, and thought that I'm supposed to be able to pick and stay there. Growing up, I listen to all kinds of music. And other friends were like, you know, who's, whose tape is this? And I said, you know, it's mine.

This is Aerosmith. Like, you're in the hood. Like, yeah, but I like this. Like, I didn't limit any. I didn't look at anything like you're black. You're supposed to... That never occurred to me. Whatever you liked, whatever connected with you.

Yes. And so I never looked at the world from one perspective. It was one of the reasons why I did all kinds of different martial arts because I felt like everything has something to offer. And I didn't understand. anti-Semitism. I didn't understand like how

how are the how are people the whole idea of the racist kind of stuff. Yeah. And I looked at it as kind of like a disease and I'm like wait, this makes no sense. But I, of course, I

recognized that. You saw it. I saw it, but you know, but growing up, I would never assign something as racially motivated. if somebody did it unless I knew. And I don't care. It could look just like that to someone else, but I'm going, I don't know who that person is.

That could just be an asshole. You didn't assume. Yeah, I didn't know if anything. I think a lot of people assume now. It's easy to assume go, oh, it's racist. They're racist. Yeah. You know, but, you know, so I look at it.

You know, I never had, I never looked at it from that box. Right. You know, and therefore I, I've had friendships with people who you wouldn't, think. I mean, I have a buddy who was a skinhead. You know, shoot, the first movie I ever did and met my buddy, my name, Jerry.

He was a skinhead, like, tattoos on his head, all that kind of stuff. And he was a leader of his group. And, you know, I'm fascinated. I'm like, hey, you know, here's a human being coming from a different perspective. And

you know, like I connected with him. And of course, like, there's stuff that he just never heard of, you know, that, you know, from, okay, I couldn't believe in some of the dogma that he came over. But I was fascinated with, hey, how did you get to that? Right. And did he change? Yeah, we're friends to this day. Because he changed. Yeah, because he couldn't. He wasn't looking at you as a black man. He's looking you as a human being. Yeah. It kind of freaked him out a little bit because I'm going, you know, I see your perspective.

I don't agree with that. Right. You know you're wrong here, right? And so, and then it was like, but I, my thing is always understanding where somebody's coming from. Yeah. And I first try to prove you right before trying to prove you wrong. I see what the connection, oh, I get. You, because you think this and that's, oh, all right, there you go.

And then when I do that, then I say, well, now that you know I understand your perspective, now you're willing to hear my suggestion. Because you know, you know, the fight is not me trying to understand. Yeah. I do understand. Right. But you might be missing a large percentage. Right.

Yeah. And a lot of times, educating each other by talking about things. Yeah, because, I mean, a lot of times, you know, our blind spots are connected to some kind of pain. Yeah. Just human being wise. So if I see somebody who's like, you know, spouting something that's ridiculous, I'm going, wow, how do you get to that? Yeah, let's find out why he believes that.

Yeah, and the way you do it is just really here, really, you can listen really well. You can find, oh, really listen to you can't listen anymore. Oh, yeah. You know? Inside of you is brought to you by One Skin. One Skin is nothing like your typical skincare brand. And it's why I've loved using their products. Most anti-aging skin care is built to react to smooth over lines and run.

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and tell them that inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum sent you. I'm looking at like, you know, you've done so much. I just watched Black Dynamite for the first time. Oh, okay. Man, that was, I mean, I've never laughed so hard. It was so, I mean, the fighting, the style, just everything. I mean, Tyson's spawn. You just directed Trouble Man.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. You directed and started it. Yeah. I mean, so you're doing all these things now. I mean, did you ever, when you look back, what was the point? where you went, I'm going to try this. I think life just brought me that direction. Luckily, I just kind of, you know, as a fluke, I went to college, right?

Kind of me too. Yeah. And luckily, I jumped in a, I jumped in a, there was a track practice, and I happened to just jump in a race because the, the guy who was the 100 meter champion just talked crap. Right. They were lining up. I was actually cutting class. I was actually walking through just as they were about to run.

You're always walking through, whether it's a wrestling class, wrestling practice, or it's. Yeah, it's like, you know, it was this Forrest Gump moment I had, which was. I'm going to try that. Yeah, exactly. Running. Yeah. And so they, you know, so I lined up while he's in the block. and the other guys were running.

I just lined up just standing there. And then, you know, they shot off the gun. And I beat him in a hundred meter. And the coach came out just as we were running. And when I beat him, this man who was like this legendary coach was screaming at me. I thought I was in trouble. He was like, do you know what you just did? You just beat so.

And he's, and you did it in Roach Killers. You're on the team. I'm like, what? What? That doesn't happen. That's like a movie. Exactly. Exactly.

And, but I didn't have, uh, an adult that was, you know, that's, you know, kind of had some status who took an interest in me. Said you got something. Right. You never heard that. And I never heard somebody. I said, you're on the team. I'm like, okay. And I was Mr. Tough guy to the school and everything.

I'm, you know, I'm the king of the bullies because I beat up all the bullies, right? Which is weird, you know, and I was actually going to hang out with some thugs. And that one moment changed my life. I wound up getting, you know, doing track and jumping into different things. And he's like, you're a decathlet. And I went to college, you know, as a decafally got me into school. Just the craziest thing.

So, yeah, I was always doing martial arts even at that time. Yeah. Then, you know, with that whole martial arts and then learning the track stuff and shaving off a second. A millisecond. And then I started applying that to fighting and kind of developed a lot of techniques that were, you know, pretty. solid.

They work with me. Like I said, man, I am so incredibly lucky. Oh, man. I, yeah. I could tell. I can tell how grateful you are. Yeah. You're a passionate guy.

You've had passion with everything you do. You put passionate to it. No, it's about giving back. It really is. It really is. I know how freaking lucky I am. Like, nobody knows how lucky I am. I mean, honestly.

It's, it's, It's crazy. I can see you get a little emotional. No, no, seriously. I love that, man. I think that's passion. That's real. I mean, you talk about, you know, going to the ghetto or whatever.

The projects, are they, can you still say ghetto? Yeah, yeah, projects, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I'm just making sure, you know, I want to get slammed. Oh, man. You know, people know what you mean. Yeah, yeah, but the projects and going back and like, like, it's home. It really is. I don't care where I go.

I feel very comfortable in, the downtrodden areas in the ghettos. And I devote a lot of time to those places. I do a lot of motivational speaking. I've been doing that for over 30 years. Well, I don't know if you know, but I became a school teacher. Yeah, I knew about the school teacher. Yeah, yeah.

When was that? Right. Even while I was in college, I was a permanent sub. And then I kind of focused on EMD, emotionally disturbed, you know, the special ed. Yeah. Kids who were very much like me. So it was valuable because a lot of kids, a lot of teachers, they don't come from that same background. So these kids, they couldn't fool me.

I mean, you could give me the biggest sob story about your mom on crack and this and that. And I'm like, okay. And you think I'm going to let you fail because it's some kind of sob story that's going to affect another teacher. You learn to use that, right? So they'd be straight up with you. Yeah. Because they knew because you read right through it. Yeah.

I'm like, you can't fool me. And you loved it? Oh, yeah. It was something that I've always been proud that I had a talent in. That's why I've never left it behind. And I have some, you know, I've, I kind of consider it my real job, but what I do on screen and stuff helps, helps me help a lot of folks who need that. What do you like better, fighting or acting? Oh, yeah.

I like acting. Well, I mean, you know, I like the whole business, the directing, the writing, all of that. You like the creative process. Yeah, and I like the collaborative process too. And I so enjoy the fact that, like, I always say this, like, when I'm working on a movie or anything in the TV movie or whatever, it's like we all ran away from home and joined the circuit. and we're making a living at it. So there's no reason to, yeah, to look at anything as negative.

Like, we're all going to win. Yeah. You know, it's like what are the chances? So it's such a joyous thing. So I really love what I do. Yeah. And I find times where some of my background is really useful. Mm-hmm.

Because a lot of people, I don't know too many people who have come from where I came from, who can, I think, apply some of that in... Transition. Yeah, in their art, you know? Yeah. And so, you know, I'm blessed to be able to... I'm creating a lot of my own things. And they're working well.

They're working well. I've got seven movies coming. out right now. Seven. Yeah. Yeah. What's ones that we look forward to soon? Well, well, there's, why did I get married again? You know what? Dean Brown. He's the dean at Western Kentucky University on the college. I just talked to him today because I'm thinking about giving back, going to Western, talking to the students about, you know, how to, you know, what I learned from going to college and all that stuff. But he's like, can you ask him about why did I get married three? Okay, sure. I think it's, I think it's Tyler's best movie.

Really? I really do. I really, from the, from the page, he took on something that I've never seen in movies. Like, well, think about, you know, as we're parents, right? Parents naturally, we kind of shield our kids against our wrong doings, you know? And it's just natural. You want to be that image to look up to. And so sometimes the kids grow up with this imbalance image of who the parent is.

they think they're perfect. I did. Because we naturally are shielding them from there. We want to be that example. And sometimes the kids are like, oh, my God, how can I compete with that? You know? And so what's in this movie is they really talk about that, how the kids sometimes have this pressure of following behind the parent that they see all the accolades.

Be honest with your kids. Right. And so sometimes that, damages them because they're like, oh my God, how do I compete with that? They don't know how many times you messed up. You know what I mean? Yeah, I thought my dad was perfect. I thought he never did wrong.

I thought he was, you know, and I believed that until my, my 20s. And then I finally was like, wait a minute, wait a minute, this is not adding up. Yeah. So I called him. I said, I don't know if I ever want to talk to you again. And he says, what are you talking about? I go, well, you know, I always had this vision. You're perfect.

You don't drink. You don't smoke. You don't do this. You don't do that. you don't do this. She's like, you know, just I don't know who you are. You know,

he goes, what do you want to know? I go, you drink? Yeah, of course. Do you do drugs? Yeah.

A lot. Did you, you know, I just kept asking questions. He was like, yeah. And so there was at least the first break. That was like the only time.

I was like, oh. But it was, you know, if I was younger in hearing these things like, okay, I made a mistake. I did this. We all make mistakes.

Seeing your father flawed, seeing, you know, these people that you put on a pedestal, it's only going to help you say, oh, okay, they messed up too. I messed up. So it just will help. And I see that, you know, a lot of parents start to, I don't do this, I don't do that. You have to do this.

This is what I did? And that's not the way to do it, is it? Right, right. But that movie talks about that. First time I ever seen it. I have not seen that. And that's such a human thing. I mean, we do that.

And it's not like we're bad people for doing it. Because, of course, there's reasons why you do that, you know. But sometimes you set it an impossible example. Yes. You know, for the kids. Yes. Yeah. And I'm glad you said this.

This made me go, man, that's just nailing the head right there. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, you know, when we think about our kids and it's like, ooh, okay. Let's let some of the pressure off them sometimes. This episode is sponsored by Blue Chew.

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I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. No hard feelings, Kevin. Just faster payouts from Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older. Ontario only. Please play responsibly.

If you were someone you know as concerns about gambling, visit connectsontario.ca or call 18665-3-1-2-600. Terms and conditions apply. Do you still text with Tyson? Be friends with them, Mike Tyson? No. No. No.

Oh, we had friends in common. Right. Right. Yeah. When he was incarcerated, a buddy in mind, Frank, he was one of his. Was that in Indiana? I think it was. Yeah.

And so we were talking while I was doing the movie. So I wanted to get, you know, insight on things like that. And I've been, you know, we have a lot of friends in common. But we never really spent any time together. Right. You know, for me, it feels a little weird. I mean, I played you. you know, it's kind of, it's kind of a little weird.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I've played somebody who was basically right around your same age. Do you think he liked it? He liked my performance. Ah. Yeah, of him.

He didn't like certain things about the movie. He said he was upset about a few inconsistencies. He was saying how, I forget, one guy when he was at the, the Spinks fight had broken his leg and he was on, crutches and and I'm like, yeah, we, we know that, but if we showed that, it would have to explain, you know, it was kind of this thing where we had to take dramatic license with, right, right, but, you know, it's like, why go and explain all that? Yeah. But I was like, if he's upset about those kind of things, well, then, you know. He liked your performance. That's really all you could,

you're in charge of, right? Yeah, my thing, but, you know, honestly, if he, I'm, I'm glad he did, but if he didn't, it's okay because all I could do is my best. If I did my best, there it is. You know, if somebody liked something or not. You can really put that to bed. Oh, absolutely. That's, that's exactly the thing about anything. The only reason I could be remorseful is if I did not do my best.

If I, there was something within me and I shortchanged it. Yeah. That's the only time. And I never want that. You never have done that. Yeah, yeah. I never want to do that. You know, so even in competition, I try to explain to people.

If you lose, you can only lose if you really didn't apply yourself. If you lost, well, damn, if you tried your best, you won, really. That's it. You know, honestly. You can never say it, gosh, I didn't. Because honest, honest to God, Mike, when I, I, I had actually. I grew up with, you know, it was fast, powerful. I had gifts.

And the fact that I was faster, I had these advantages on people, it's just how I just, I came out of the womb with that. I was not the best martial artist during those times. because even the people who were my instructors, they give all this praise to me as a fighter. That's only one aspect. And sometimes that can screw you up. When I had to look at the truth of the matter for martial arts,

I was, I got comfortable being a dominant fighter. And other things kind of went to waste. I mean, so I'm supposed, it's about balance, not doing the thing that you can do best. Right. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, so think about a curriculum in school. Oh, I only want to do math.

No, there's a lot of other things. Right. that other people in that class, they worked harder. And here's the philosophy, really. If it takes you 100 kicks to become fatigued, and it takes me 1,000, and you push to 120, and I'm, I rest on my 1,000 because it's so much more than yours.

Who's a better martial artist? You are. You pushed that much more. Right. What happens when you, you get to 200, I'm at a thousand. You keep pushing, right? And I'm, I'm comfortable because I got you beat. Yeah. Right. Right. Uh, well, slowly, hey, okay, all right, I can chill, rest on my laurels. Um, you,

I keep fighting. I keep pushing myself. What happens when you get to a thousand? What, what's your quality of your 1,000, as opposed to mind. I'm mentally there. It's like, I'm at a different level than you are because you're not pushing yourself anymore. Nope. So it doesn't matter how good you think you were and pushed yourself if you're not continuing to push yourself.

Right. And so the comparative method is that's a trap. You know, the ego, that's a freaking trap. Oh, I can do more than it. Hey, I was born with that. But you're better. I know you're better than me because you're pushing yourself. Yeah.

So when I realized that and I said, no, no, no, I need to be the best I can be. No comparison. No, no comparative stuff. So I should be heading to 2000. Right? Mm-hmm. I should be doing my best regardless of what anyone is doing. like an analogy would be, you know, even the big actors nowadays, you know, if they're not still

working on their craft and working on being better, they're just kind of stagnant, you know, and these up-and-comers, they're putting all the working and pushing and like, you know, and you got to keep doing it. Yeah, you got to test yourself. I mean, just resting on your laurels. And when I'm talking about martial arts, you know, like this is the subject, the tenants of what martial arts are supposed to be about developing the human being being the best version of yourself being satisfied with being better than someone else is not the best version of you

yeah has nothing to do with that okay so you know the truth of the matter is I wasn't I really wasn't the best because I really was not pushing myself to be better right and so that when I apply it to other things. And when I started to go, I don't care that I have this, I'm going to push myself every day on that training floor. If I'm sparring with somebody that doesn't have my

ability, I'm going to handicap myself. So I developed something that was my weakest techniques. Right. You know what I mean? This person... Sort of your Achilles. You work on that, whatever. Yeah, because. this person might think, oh, Mike's not as good as I thought, well, that's fine for you to think

that. But I'm only moving when your fist gets an inch close to me. Or I'm going to use my left ridge hand, which is terrible. I'm only going to do that because I'm going to bring that up. We're both going to get better for our time here. And that's where my bow is coming from thank you for allowing me to get better. Me using my attributes, I'm a bully again. You know, I'm right. I can easily take this guy down. Well, if you can, work on your other crafts.

Exactly. Yeah. So I apply that to other things in life and it really works out for me. I got to talk about Spawn a little bit. Do you like talking about Spawn? Sure. I'm just honest about it. Some people don't like my honesty.

If somebody handed you $150 million tomorrow and said, make the Spawn movie you wanted, what would it look like? Oh, shoot, it looked like the comic book. It would be dark. It would be like, man, I'd be ripping out spinal cords. Yeah, man, Spawn, to me, you know, I had problems with the movie. It was like, okay. It is what it is a wonderful opportunity.

But I feel like, you know, it should have been like the comic book instead of us trying to go for a PG, kind of PG-13 times in the middle, right? Yeah, I'm like, what are we going for? People love that movie, though. Yeah, they do. But you want more. I wanted a story more. The first cut of the movie, the story was intact. You saw the beautiful life I had.

And then what I lost. And then over the different iterations of it, you see none of that. Yeah. It kind of a lot of the special effects and everything took over. And I thought, wow, we were missing the story. I like movies where, okay, just like my mark of the movies I like to do, it may have action in it, but if you take the action out, it's a good movie. Right.

Still has heart, substance, something. Yeah. Character. That's the stuff I like. Right. That you take all the fanfare and all that special effects out, it still should be a good movie that you care about. Again, you're hitting it on the head. I think what they do is how do I appease this group?

How do I make everyone happy? How do we got the effects? We've got this. We brought this character. You're forgetting about the one thing that makes, makes a movie is the story. And the characters, you've got to care about. You want to follow them.

I want to get the 80-year-old white woman to like my movie. Yeah. Yeah. And so if I get her, I got everybody. If I get her to care about it. That's how you look at it. I want everybody to like this. Yes, yes.

But I'm going to take that perspective in also because I'm selling this to the world. And there's the greatest thing is I think, you know, we can see humanity. You know, you know, I mean, I think that's our job is to recreate humanity honestly. Yeah. You know, and see people who don't think that they have something in common with you, you know, kind of prove them wrong. Yeah. Yeah. What would you say about Heath Ledger when the cameras weren't rolling? Great guy. Playful, you know, it's like on set, we try to give him his birth and just, you know, like, you know, give him his space.

And he was engaging everyone. And so it's like he's just, he wasn't going for that. He's like, hey, man, what's happening? And we were, we were kind of like amateur magicians. And so we were. We were. We were. We were. We were. kind of trade different like slight of hand stuff and all that kind of stuff he was a real cool guy man it's real cool yeah he didn't take himself too serious at all that's that's the key isn't it i remember i saw him i was at a club and it was a few years before he passed but i don't know it was many years ago but i was driving and he just walked right in front of the car and he turned his head and i stopped and i was driving he looked at me like and we just looked at each other for about i'm telling you it was like 20 seconds and then he went

they went oh yeah he recognized you well i don't know he just looked at me pointed give me a thumbs up and i went and he goes and he smiled and walked off that was my only meeting one chance meeting him yeah and i was like i don't know what was going on but he was there's something really genuine and sweet about him yes i just felt it i felt like that was really weird and nice. You know? Yeah, that's one thing about cinema. Like, you can't hide who you are.

People are looking in those eyes. And, you know, there's something that they connect to. You know? And if you just do the work as a human being, sometimes it pays off. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It does. Black dynamite. I got to talk about it. I loved it. I loved it. I mean,

what was it like? Because there's like this sense of humor, but you got to do it right. It's a balancing act. Yeah, it's a line. So did you ever, like, cross those lines and the director kind of goes, all right, let's get more back to here, or did you think, or both you guys worked on making it sort of like seem like, all right, this is the tone, this is the tone and getting there. And once you had it, you had it.

Yeah, I really worked with the actors separately on that and really tried to make sure the tone was kind of uniform. My friend Cedric was in that. Yes. I love Cedric. Oh, my God. Cedric. He's so talented, man.

He should be in everything. Yes, he should. He's great. Like, I see him at the groundlings. Just kills it. Kills it. He and Gary Anthony Williams. Oh, Gary Anthony Williams, man.

Those two guys. They should have their own comedy. They can do no wrong. Just watching, just an amazement. Amazement. What they're able to do. Yeah. It's incredible.

Yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize how talented they are. I think that happens a lot where you don't, a lot of people don't realize the talent that someone has and all the things they could really do. And we're all still climbing up that ladder, trying to fight our way in, trying to say, hey, I can do that, you know, and it's, it's tough, you know. But two movies, I mean, they, they both came up with the greatest improvs, things that, like, honestly, Cedric, like, he came up with the line, which one of funniest lines in the movie, almost, like, I tell you, 97% of that movie is scripted.

scripted, right? His line of, you know, but black dynamite, I sell drugs to the community. That was off the cuff. It wasn't written. One of the funniest lines average, just like, oh, my God. And I could barely keep a straight face. I sell drugs to the community. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that was this, yeah. Was that a great experience? Oh, yeah. That was difficult, wasn't it? A lot of fighting, a lot of action, a lot of, I mean, you cared it. I'm careful to cause something difficult. I remember when things were difficult. Yeah.

You said that earlier. Yeah. So, yeah. So that being able to have a movie, write a movie that was in my head and, you know, make it come out just like I pictured it. Yeah. And, you know, you take that risk that, you know, I think this is funny. Maybe other people will don't.

It's so funny. So you can just put. put it on. Some of those movies you just put on. Thanks. You know, it's just so enjoyable. I mean, obviously, you know, I know, it seems to me like your family is the most important thing in the world to you. Oh my God, yeah. My friends and my family. Yeah, of course. You always make time. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's, that's such a blessing, man. I mean, I don't know. I mean, people coming to your life. I mean, I've, I've been a pretty good judge of character, I think. And

I know, you know, I go back to, like what I said, my gauge is that ghetto friendship. Yeah. And I know what I would do for friends. And that's a valuable thing. Yeah, so I wasn't that close to family growing up, but my friends are the family that I get to choose, you know? Yeah, me too.

Every year I have Thanksgiving dinner. for 20, 30 friends, you know, and it's almost never with family. It's always my friends. Yeah, man, sometimes, oh, man, sometimes folks grow up with things that, especially in my community, oh, man, there's so, there's so many dysfunctional things that we inherit. But we don't know any different. Yeah, you know, it's hard to sort of change your ways.

Yeah, one of the things that's really kind of interesting. especially in the black community that I could speak on, there's this thing where, you know, I want to, I try to bring into people's consciousness because I feel like, again, like the traffic jam, I understand where the root is. Well, there is this thing where, well, I'll say it like this, you know, part of the nucleus of this.

A generations ago, several generations ago, when a young person, young black child wanted better for their life, say, I'm going to read, I'm going to do this, I'm going to do that, you know, I'm going to hold my head up high, I'm going to get educated. The people who love them said, no, you're not. You ain't nothing but a, you're no better than anybody else. And they did that to keep that child alive. Wow. Because so many children wound up hanging from a tree who had that same notion. And so you pull that person back down to earth and say, no.

No. That's gone on for so many years. Imagine the child of a slave wanting to do better. Then the next generation. and the generations after that. And there's a lot of protection. It comes from love. You're no better than anybody else.

Let me keep you down. So what happens is you grow up with this knee-jerk reaction to that person that ascends, you pull that person back down because the people that loved you did that. You know? And so there's this. tendency to put that person in the crosshairs. And you hear it all the time. You ain't no better than anybody else.

Oh, you think you're, and to this day and age, there are people who go, oh, now you, so you big and back, you're an actor and whatever, you ain't no. I understand where that comes from. There came a time where that's, you know, know, it's a learned behavior. Just like in other cultures, there may be a guilt thing that's put on people, you know, that kind of a thing. But the older generation died not knowing that you can ascend.

You can get educated. You can do better for yourself. And those, there's so many people. who feel guilty ascending. Yeah, having success. Exactly. They feel, and then there's so many people that's like,

you ain't one of us anymore. And that is something that has gone on and people are plagued with that, not realizing where it came from. It came from a place of love. And a lot of people think it's coming from a place of hate. It's not. Man, that's profound.

It's what they learned. Yeah. You know, and I realized the, I realized the conditioning in my own life. I remember one time, a long time ago, there was an actor that was just a, it was an actor that's kind of like was in my same category and some bad shit befell him. And I was happy. And I was like, wait. wait a freaking minute.

Hell with this. I actually felt some kind of way like I celebrated his downfall. And I realized that freaking conditioning worked on me too. Had that been another actor my age that was white, I wouldn't think the same damn thing. I was pissed that it worked on me too. I hated that.

And I'm like, man, never again. Never again. No. And I exercised that part of me that was there. Yeah, man. You know what I mean? Knowing where that came from. And I don't care if a peer group is going to be,

they're going to revel in it and they talk about it and they just kind of celebrate it. And I go, uh-huh. Yeah, I'll say, well, I'll give my opinion on that. But we got to think something differently, you know? Yeah. But yeah. So that conditioning worked on me as well.

That's crazy. You know? How it's embedded. How you have to want to change, I guess, right? You want to, like, you notice that. Yes. And it's surprising that you would even notice it, right? But you did.

Yeah. Which is a good thing, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's, you know, we grow up with a lot of, yeah, you grow up, everyone has their, you know, has their obstacles to get over. Yeah, you should celebrate people as much as you can.

Yeah, yeah. For me, celebrating someone's downfall is just not a good thing. No, it's not. I don't care what color you are. It's like, you know, but I recognized that conditioning that came through. my, you know, my ranks, my, you know, racial conditioning, about that whole. Yeah.

And it happens, I mean, even with white people. I mean, people, you know, comparison is the thief of joy. It's like, fuck that guy, you know, oh, who, you know. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, of course. But on your, yeah, it's a different level what you're talking about. Because this happens with family. Well, of course, white and black. You know, with families, you know, certain people ascend, they want to pull them down.

But there's, but I think it's just, it's really another level. Oh, yeah. With, with black folks, there's a, yeah, it's deep. You know, it goes, you know, there's. And you don't know unless you know. Yeah, yeah. You know, it's not something you could really. I mean, you explained it really well and it was profound.

And it was like, I was in there. I was thinking about how difficult that is, not only for the parent, but for the child who wants to do something different. And they're keeping them back. And it probably kills them that they're holding them back, but they're doing it for their own safety. Yeah. And that's terrible. Yeah. It's kind of, you know, there's these laws called Willie Lynch laws, right, that was designed to kind of divide black folks.

You know, and it really connected, even just crazy. but my own grandmother didn't like me because I was lighter than other people because that's how she was conditioned. She's coming from another place, right? And, you know, there was this color issue that's within there. Yeah.

But, like, you know, how do you, you know, look where we came from. So, I mean, we can understand how if you talk harshly to a child, that that could affect them. Yeah. Well, what about, like, hundreds of years of that? Right? So, you know, so yeah, of course, it's hard to get to where you are unscathed.

There's something that, you know, that you're going to probably have to, you know, it's great to look at and examine, you know, that's the traffic jam. People don't realize that, you know, lynchings and these things wasn't that fucking long ago. Yeah, wasn't that long ago. You know what I mean? Yeah. And then, you know, people grow up with this hating. It's like you kind of go, wow, you're growing up and you're hating.

the victim? Just think about that for a second. There are people out there hating the victims of prejudice. I want to ask you one last thing. Don't worry, it's not like a Joe Rogan

three-hour interview, man. I can't talk for more than an hour. But I listened to it, too, and there was some great stuff in there. I remember when you were talking about some stuff where you had eaten before you were in this competition or the training and, you know, you had to fight. and you're like, and you felt like shit, and you're like, but you changed your mindset

where you said, this is the beginning. You're starting over. This is the beginning. And that's how you put your mind. Like, hey, we're going now. Let's change how we're feeling. Exactly.

Let's go. And you just go. And you just, I mean, that's genius. But my real big question was at 58, I mean, you're in great shape. You feel great. I feel wonderful. How do you, what things would you do?

What things would you do if someone was in their 50s and wanted to change it up a little bit and just getting better shape and feel better? What are the things you do? I say, man, I tell everybody, get up an hour earlier and do something for yourself. Get up and start moving, right? You know, you're in the mornings, you can have some me time. Yep. Work out, put on your favorite music. Yeah, because I get up early, yeah.

Yeah, put on your favorite music. And work out, you start your day with a success. Yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? And that kind of sets you on a really good path. I like that because I listen to music in the morning sometimes, but I go in my office after I get a cup of coffee. But I'm like, instead of working right away, put some music on downstairs,

do 50 push-ups, you know, play with the dogs for a minute. Just like get ready for the day. Yeah. You eat really well? Yeah, I do. Yeah. I mean, and it's not a discipline thing. It's really the things I enjoy.

I mean, you could change your eating habits. It doesn't take that long. And then, like, you end up tasting everything even stronger. Yeah. Yeah, so it's like sugary things and whatever. A lot of, like, bad food does not, it's not a temptation to me because it doesn't taste good because it doesn't really feel you very well. Makes you feel like shit. Yeah.

Yeah. So I'm like, man, it's like, you know, people. was like, oh, man, you're just, no, I'm not. That's just going to make me feel like crap. A pizza? Yeah. You ever a pizza? I never, every now and then I think I could, I don't think I've had pizza in years.

Burgers? Yeah, yeah. You love burgers. Oh, yeah, all the time. Chicken, fish. Oh, yeah, absolutely. All that stuff. Rice?

Yeah, yeah, me and rice are like, like this. Yeah, I like rice too. So chicken and rice, fish and rice every day is all good. Yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, I just, I, I, I, too, well, it's kind of like a fuel. I use fuel when I need it in the early part of the day, but then I taper off. I don't need fuel or rice at night.

Right. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I don't need energy to go to sleep. That's true. So, yeah, and so, you know, I don't want to eat something that's going to keep me from sleeping. Right.

So, yeah, I'll taper off. Right. Just kind of do, you know, protein and vegetables. Have you ever gotten your ass kicked? Wow, you're thinking about that. I can easily say, yes, I have. Well, yeah, yeah, I would say yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

You know, but it's a frame of mind, I guess. I have the, like, shift, you know, frame of mind wise. Because, yeah, and kind of figuring out what do you really mean. Like in a competition, ever get your ass kicked or some, or a street fight? Oh, never in a street fight. Never. How many street fights you think you've had, honest to God in your life? 100?

No, no, no, no. 30. Maybe. And never lost. Never. Did you ever fight two people at a time? Yes. I fought four people at a time before.

And you took them all down. Yeah. Yeah. I used acting as well. I mean, that's something that... Making them think you're tough? No, make them think I was going to run and cry. That's something that I think I'm alive today because of that.

I mean, I was jumped in, what's that area? In the Heights, you know, part of New York. It's a Dominican area. I was jumped there by really five guys but one guy ran but like I was in a situation where I knew it was going to go down and since I knew it was going to go down and I was going to get out of it I acted like the biggest wimp in the in the world and just like my thing is even with my wife I tell her this if we're in a situation you're going to see me behave in some kind of way that will take everybody off guard. Don't be confused by that. I may go, hey, man, look. Hey, I just want, and then I'll hit two of them before they even know what happened.

And so that's kind of what I do. So you get tears going. Oh, I will, I will make them think that I'm the, You don't want any part of it. Like, if I, if it's going to go down, I'm cheating. I am not going to let you know what's going to happen. I'm not going to lift my, I'm not going to say, let's go.

No, I'm just going to destroy the first person. And by the time that happens, the second person is hit. And now psychologically, you're at a disadvantage because you got four people. And two are down. Well, yeah, if I move one direction, I use something I teach self-defense wise. if, I mean, if you got four dogs trying to chase one cat, only one dog could bite them at a time. And for that moment, it's a one-on-one situation. And so when you've, you got numbers, it's four against one.

And I get to a one-on-one situation, you're not thinking about defending yourself. Last thing you're thinking about is blocking. Right. So I move, and psychologically, you're way behind. So when those four guys came at you, that's what you did? Well, I moved first. I wouldn't let them come. It was going to happen.

Right. And so I knew it was going to happen. Luckily, while that was happening, right? While I was like this, because I was thinking, there's one guy that was talking more so. I'm like, moving, I'm thinking I'm going to hit him. Thank God I was doing this thing because then I see a guy with a gun in his room. waist. The guy had a blue jean jacket and does this and I'm going, now I know who I'm going to get first. And it was that guy. And so that's, that's what happened. And so that, that occurrence,

that taught me a lot as far as, you know, the subterfuge part of it. Like, defending myself and just, I love the psychological part of it anyway, even normal. normally fighting. I had this innocent look where I was fighting grown men in competition when I was 15. Yeah. And so sometimes, you know, I'd be fighting some hard rock dude from New York and, you know, looks fearsome of him. And I had to act like like this, right?

You know, I called it coy boy. And like, they say, go. And I start to run around like, you know, like. And then I get a warning, you know, from the, from the ref, right? And then like they say go again and I go and I tear at the guy like a maniac and they would it would freak them out. And I'm like to where I'm hitting them and screaming in their face. And they're like, what the hell? You know what I mean?

And I enjoy doing it. I enjoyed the psychological part of it. That kind of chess game. That was fun to do that. And then the whole match, they're like, what the hell is going? They can't catch up mentally. Or like, I'd be, you know, lining up against some guy and, you know, trying to do the tough guy, you know, kind of the stare thing. And I'd go like this.

And I'd wave at nobody. Nobody. Just like this. And that guy would go. And I'm like, I'm in his head already. I'm in his head. He has no idea where I'm going. I don't want to fight you.

But that was, that was like a fun part of it. Yeah. The chess game. Yeah. You know? And so, yeah. So I, you know, like I, in the street, of course, most people have no idea how to, how to really fight or block certain things, you know. And I came up in this style called Kiyokushin, which was very brutal.

And so, man, you're, in Kiyokishin, they, you're. They're trying to knock you out daily on the, on the floor. And it was bare a knuckle. And so on the street, it was like I had a really unfair advantage. It was, and plus that part that I kind of enjoyed it. Yeah. You know, and the fact that I loved fighting. Yeah.

But that's something that over the years, you know, I so hope that I've kind of gotten out that that I wish a motherfucker would kind of attitude to say, hey man, I will walk away from something. I hope, you know, I think I'm at that place where I don't want to do that. But yeah, I had that attitude a long time. Yeah, we evolve.

Yeah, it's not that important to me, even though there's a slight still twinge of enjoying the combat part. Yeah. This has been amazing. This is the longest interview I've ever done. Really? I went an hour in like almost 20. Really?

Wow. Probably. Yeah. I never go over an hour. But I was just like, man, I can talk to this guy forever. Well, thanks, man. You got to come back. Well, hey, you're right up the street, bro.

Dude, this is great. Thank you. This is really great. I loved it, man. Thanks for being here. Man, thanks for having me. Really. Our fantasy commission says for him it's all about the friendships.

Cute, Kevin, but I disagree. Like with Bet365. I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout and can cash out at any time before the game ends. No hard feelings, Kevin. Just faster payouts from Bet365. The home of winning early. Must be 19 and older.

Ontario only. Please play responsibly. If you were someone you know is concerns about gambling, visit Connectsontario.ca. Or call 1866 5 through 1-2600.600. Terms and conditions apply. What does a sunny getaway with Air Canada sound like? Sunny Jamaica moves to its own rhythm.

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You just, very wise, my friend. A lot of great stories. And thank you. Thank you very much for being here. I hope you guys enjoyed that. I did, didn't you? Yeah.

It was intense. It was heartfelt. It was all over. It was all over the place in a good way. It was all the things. It was all the things. It was all the things. And he spent a lot of time with us.

And it was really, really good. Yeah. It was really, really epic. All right, we couldn't do this without our top tier patrons. Patreon.com slash Insidi, like I said in the beginning. I mean, these folks give back. It's such a wonderful community. You're going to feel welcomed and you're going to feel like you're part of something.

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Yes, we love you. Thank you so much for the support of this, for this podcast. I mean, I feel like, you know, beating a dead horse, but it's true. But it's a good horse. It's a good horse. It's a good horse to beat. If you're going to beat any dead horse.

If you're going to beat a dead horse. All right. From the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I hope you enjoyed today. Teas. I'm Ryan Tayas. I'm here as well.

Yes. A little wave of the camera. All right. We love you. And thanks. A big shout out to Timmy, our editor who busts his ass on both podcasts, talk to one inside of you. Just want to give a shout out.

Love you, Timmy. You came through. when Jason left, I was worried, and you put my worries at ease. My concerns were no concerns after Timmy showed up. So I love it. And we got a great team here, and Bryce and Ryan and Timmy and me. That's it. That's all you need to run two podcasts.

That's the team. We'll see you next week. Be good to yourself. My reg league goalie says he plays for the love of the game. You gave up six goals last week, Steve. maybe play to win, huh? Like with Bet365, I get paid the second my team goes up big with early payout

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