Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - NÉSTOR CARBONELL: Leverage on Lost, Family Fleeing Cuba, Shooting the Dark Knight & Overcoming Impostor Syndrome

Episode Date: July 25, 2023

Néstor Carbonell (Bates Motel, Lost) joins us this week and shares his experience coming from a family of Cuban exiles, following expectations of going to Harvard, and then using leverage to make a name for himself on one of the biggest shows of all time… Lost. Néstor was great this week. We talked about his humble beginnings, and never ‘taking for granted’ his countless guest-starring roles. We also talk about his curveball on The Dark Knight, handling rejection, and the funny story of his first gig in a Zest commercial. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you for joining us. If you're here for Nestor Carbonell, you found the right place. If I messed up his name, he'll kill me. He's awesome. This guy is so awesome. I met him at a con. He couldn't be nicer.

He's not only a great actor, but he's a great guy. He's a director. He does it all. But what a sweet man. And I've always been a fan. I've seen a lot of things he's been in. And I'm a big fan. So listen to some stuff that we're going to talk about and then we'll get into that.

But if you really enjoy the podcast, it helps us so much. If you write a review, subscribe, tell other people you really liked it and to give it a chance. At Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook at Inside You pod on the tweeter. And look, it's the SAG after strike. And what that means for the podcast is a lot of these, all these as of now are pre-recorded. so we're okay and we put a little disclaimer but um you know uh the podcast will continue it's continuing we've got permission other podcasts are doing it we just have to find uh you know you know what's the word um listen to the guidelines and uh yeah follow follow follow follow follow follow follow follow me follow me follow me

follow me that was snoop dog who said that but um but yeah we've got a lot in can so nothing to worry about we've got at least another couple of months before i need new guests so no need to worry but if you want to join patreon to support the podcast and keep it afloat like my patrons have done patreon.com slash inside of you very important um top tiers get there's a lot of perks and we're adding perks but the top tiers get a box sent for me every couple months in a personalized note um they get uh youtube lives where we they ask questions They get to ask shit talking questions on that are now, I think, going to become a patron exclusive and so many more things. So join Patreon, support the podcast, become a top tier patron if you want or just give it any way you can.

I will be at a bunch of cons in September. So go on my link tree on Instagram, the link link tree. And you can see where I'll be. I'll be all over. So come see me. I'd love to see you trying to get a big Patreon gathering, probably in D.C. Even if it's for an hour or so just to see all you guys, I would love that. But yeah, that's what I'll say.

That is what you said. That's what I said. Yeah. Inside of you online store, tons of cool merch, new zip-up jackets that were a bestseller. Inside you, Ryan has one. I have one. I love them. They're the most comfortable things you'll ever wear.

I promise you. They're on sale along with a bunch of other cool, cool stuff. and I'm on the cameo as well and the band sunspin sunspin.com to get merch, zooms, all that stuff. You could also get zooms with me and Tom Welling on the Talkville podcast website. Neat. Okay. I guess we should get into it.

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's time we get into it. Do you have anything else you want to share? No, this is a good. You were in the same shirt last week. I was. Was I?

Yeah. Yeah. We all. We are homely people. Oh, God. No, this one's a fun one. I'm excited for this one. And by the way, how are you guys doing?

You know, I don't ask all the time, but I do care. Ryan cares. Ryan, are you, you feel like your mental health is in a better place? It's in a place that's of constantly being worked on. It's constantly being worked on. And I think that's good. You're still with better help. Yep.

Yeah. Some days are better than others. Yeah, absolutely. But it's important to keep doing it. Um, you know, you're going to have those weeks. You're going to have good weeks where you don't think you need therapy. And then people tend to not go to therapy. Oh, save a buck and I don't need it because I feel good. Yeah. But it's, it's a, it's a checking. It's like working on your body. It's like physical. You know what I mean? You got to keep that up, man. Um, so I hope you're all doing well and taking care of yourself because you're the most important things. If you're trying to take care of a million things and you're not taking care of yourself, you're not going to be good to anybody, including yourself. So I'm just hoping you're looking out for yourself. All right, without further ado, let's get into it. Let's get inside of Nestor Carvinell.

He's got a wonderful career, and you're going to love this guy. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Hey folks, wanted to highlight something important before today's episode. In case you weren't aware, myself and many of the guests are on strike alongside SAG after NWGA. Today's episode and any we air before the strike ends were recorded before it began.

So this is just a heads up in relation to some for the topics we may discuss. If you want more info on the strike, visit SAGAfterStrike.org. Now let's get into it. I want to make it like a sort of a retreat in a way. You come over, you put your feet up, you relax, we karaoke, we watch movies, we hang out in the back, we have drinks, we play games. You know, it's kind of like, I'm a big kid and I just want, you know, my grandma's house was always open to everybody. But my parents, it wasn't. So I never was allowed to have friends over.

That's interesting. So like, what was, everything was meticulous and very normal? You know, it's really weird. It just, it makes a lot of sense. So my mother, if you walked in the house, like perfect carpet, you know, how the, you know, how The vacuum, it's perfect. Everything looked perfect. Right.

But if you ever opened a drawer or a cabinet or everything would fall apart, I mean, it was just in shambles, a mess. But was it disorganized or just like broken? Just disorganized. And the drawer, you realize, oh, my God, this is broken and just things stuffed in there. Like everything on the outside. And, you know, it's funny. We're recording, right? It's funny because a lot of times I look at my.

And I go, okay. And my therapist said this. They're like, you need to keep everything around you in order. You need to be, you know, I guess meticulous is the word you used. But if everything around you is not in order, you will not be in order. And so it seems to me like there's so much going on in my mind. There's a lot of chaos. There's a lot, you know, I grew up with a lot of dysfunction and stuff that I talk about. But I just, this is so funny. I'm just thinking about this for the first time, but my mother, everything on the outside appeared. So it was almost like her personality. She would pretend that I've got everything going on and she didn't. She like inside, she was like dealing with a lot of stuff and anxiety and, you know, just. So I wonder how many people

do that. Like how many people sort of like, hey, you walk in, their house is really clean and but they're a mess. Well, let's start with Instagram. I mean, you know, yeah, you know, that is sort of an extension of what people of essentially what you're saying your mom would do is as you paint a picture for the outside world that isn't entirely accurate you know right and and it's you know i think that a lot of us do that you know i mean a lot of us are no i'm certainly guilty of that and then you have to check yourself you have to be like dude let's get real you know there's uh it's not it's not what i'm portraying all the time right and as as i know you know because you're such a i mean i just you know from when i met you, you know, in Cincinnati, you, when you talk to people, you want to get at the truth.

You want to, and you're open about how you truthfully are as well, which disarms people in a great way and allows them to open up. And that is how you connect with people ultimately. When I meet people for the first time, you know, usually everything's surface. You know, it's like, you don't have time to like, you know, it's usually, hey, how are you doing? No one's going to be like, oh, not great. You're like, oh, shit, what happened? You know, usually it's just like, Hey, nice to me. Oh, yeah, great. You know, and it's like... Well, it's a quick one, yes.

Yeah, of course. But like, when I met you, however brief, when we talked a bit, a little bit and we were on the plane together. Yeah. But I told Ryan, I go, this guy is like the most down the earth just, I mean, it just feels like you're just a regular good guy who, I mean, on the outside at least, it looks like he has shit together. No, but thank you. But no, I'm like everyone else. You know, you know, full of a thousand contradictions, you know, a mess many days, sometimes less so than others, you know. When you say a mess, what does that mean?

I mean, you know, like anything, you know, I mean, I struggle with just, you know, any, any, the typical fears that people struggle with, you know, day to day. The voices in your head that they're saying that the criticisms and all that stuff. And a lot of it is like, okay, let's manage those, you know, and, you know, you pick up things along the way. You lean on things that you've learned. But by and large, you know, for me, you know, and as an actor, you know, Ryan, you're an actor as well, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes, you are.

I've been on the YouTube, yes. Yes. I've been on the YouTube. Or are you saying like in life, like, yeah. Sure. We're all putting on a face, that kind of thing. Well, there's that too. There's a double entendre.

But, you know, but, you know, in this business, you know, whether it's on YouTube and any medium, you know, it's tough. And it's tough not to hear the voices of. criticism in your head and how do you navigate those things and how do you deal with anxiety and how do you deal with you know a career that is like it's so unpredictable you don't know there's no consistency necessarily unless you get on a show and you hope that there's level of consistency there and even then that goes away that goes away it's ephemeral everything's ephemeral there's no question you know um what's crazy is i look at your um by the way how would you say your name like the real way you say it uh nester carbinelle no in english i mean i mean you

I mean, like, if you were in Cuba or you were somewhere, like, how would you say it? My parents would say Nestor Carbonell. Nestor Cabanel. Nestor, yeah, there's an accent on the E if you want to throw that. So Nestor Caronet, but, you know, I mean, it's Nestor Carboneau. Or many other things that people have called me, it's fine. What's crazy is when I first got to see you on TV, I think the first time I saw you, you've been in tons of stuff. And I know I've seen you, but the role that really probably everybody was like, whoa, it was lost, right?

that was the big one one of the big ones i mean you were on suddenly susan you were on yeah tons of stuff but like no the most impact for sure i mean i yeah that that that opened up the world right certainly for tv for me in a different way but i had i'm sure a lot of other people didn't realize that you know you had this i i didn't know you spoke like that you could speak spanish like that you could speak you know that you know where your roots are if you just look at you You don't think that. You're like, I'm sure maybe is, is it Italian? Is it, is it Jewish or is he?

Yeah. Yeah. And then you start speaking. I'm like, Everliss him. How did he learn all that? Well, he actually speaks the language. You know what I mean? Well, thank you.

It's a cool thing. Thank you, but I mean, I, I, I was born to Cuban exiles who exiled Cuba in 1960. My parents both, you know, exiled. They met actually. Was that hard to do, by the way, to leave Cuba? For them, it was brutal. I bet they, I mean, they had to, they had to, what they were facing at the time. You know, I mean, but our family's history there is, is pretty, is, it's very tragic, you know, certainly within the, after the Castro's revolution, I had an uncle who was executed by Castro, another one who's, in prison for 17 years, you know.

Was this your dad's brother? My dad's cousin, cousin, absolutely. And my father participated in the Bay of Pigs. uncle in prison for 17 years and tortured for rejecting indoctrination into Marxism. So we have a long history of, you know, so they fled, you know, hoping to return or fight for, you know, freedom of Cuba. And, you know, and they didn't, you know, they never returned because, you know, the Bay of Picks fiasco. And so, so, yeah, it was brutal for them to leave. My mom was 15, you know, didn't speak of much English at all. So. And they moved here?

Yeah, they, my mom landed in. In New York, no, in Miami first, in different homes. Like, they were just sent to, like, there's an aunt or uncle living there at the time or had a place, temper, with the idea that they were going to go back. There was no way that the U.S. would allow this, you know, Marxist, a stronghold, you know, 90 miles off they're short. And they never went back. My mom didn't see her mom, my grandmother, for nine years.

So, because her mother stayed in Cuba and sent the kids off to relatives in Miami. So it was really tough for them. So I grew up with those stories, you know. Was it hard for them in the United States? Because people are like, oh, you're Cuban. Oh, we're at war with Cuba. There's just, was there any of that? Like sort of like Pearl Harborish, you know, Japanese, Americans and dealing with all that shit.

I know that there were, there was tough transitions, you know, in the beginning in Florida. You know, I mean, there's a language barrier. There's, you're right. Anytime a new immigrant group or exile group comes in, there's always like, you know, what do we do with this? You know, and understandably, you don't know, and to a certain extent who, you know, why they're here, what's going on. So I could see, you know, why, I could, I could understand why that would happen. So, yeah, they encountered some of that. And yet they also encountered a country that opened them up, were open to them, with open arms

and quickly embraced it as their own. And thank God for this country, you know, I mean, and thank God that this country was here for them because they would never have had those opportunities anywhere else. Yeah. Were you privy, I mean, to seeing the strength of your parents? was it pretty apparent how strong they were and how hardworking they were and how, you know, was that apparent to you?

It's a great question, man. And I'd love to hear your end of this too on your parents. Well, I don't know if you do. I do. Well, I do because I'm, well, no, no, no. I want to, I consider myself incredibly lucky because they didn't, they came with nothing.

They came with what they had in their pockets. They came from families that were prominent Cuba politically and they'd done well over the years. they lost it all. It was all taken by Castro. So they had money and they were doing really well in Cuba. Yeah. Like, yes. They were, yes. And they, they, and they were fighting for democracy. They were fighting against the incumbent dictator who was Batista. Right. As much as they were against Castro. They're trying to restore democracy. So, you know, so they were, yeah, they were, but they lost it all. Like every Cuban exile, they came with what they had in their pocket. So

I grew up with those stories with stories of them having nothing. Um, my, the only thing my father did have was it was a great education and that's no small thing that is no small thing inside of you is brought to you by quince i love quince ryan i've told you this before i got this awesome sixty dollar cashmere sweater i wear it religiously you can get all sorts of amazing amazing clothing for such reasonable prices look cooler temps are rolling in and as always quince is where i'm turning for fall staples that actually last Last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear nonstop, like Super Soft, 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at just $60.

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in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket money. So, you know, they, they both work so hard, incredibly hard. My mom was a tour guide at Rockefeller Center. My dad, you know, had a law degree. He was nine years older than her. So he went to Harvard, right? He went to Harvard and he got his master's there. And your sister went

to Harvard. He got a, she got a master's degree there. And you went to Harvard. That's so annoying. It's not annoying. It's like, wow. I mean, it almost seems like my real reason I'm sort of saying that is because what I'm thinking is how hard on you would it have been to see your parents? And I want you to keep talking about what you were talking about, but seeing them how hard they were in their education and your dad being a lawyer. But also, was it a stress on you that I have to follow in my father's footsteps of the education and I have to work really hard and I have to, was it ingrained in you? You know, it's another great question. Dude, you're full of great questions. You really are. Get ready for the bad ones. Get ready for the bad ones.

No, because it, yeah, I was very lucky in the sense that my father struck this balance, and my mother as well, where it was not about the result and it was always about the effort. I remember, like, I had, we lived, we had the privilege of living in London three different times because my dad worked for Pepsi International. We were moved all over the world. Right. And I remember I was there, it was third or fourth grade. I was in the American school in London at one point.

And, you know, he came back. My grades came in and he was like, okay, we need to talk about this. I go, what? He goes, the B minus the C plus here, I don't care about that. He goes, it's this section here on effort where you have a C. That's the one that bothers me. And I was like, and it sank in. I go, what? He goes, I don't care about the result. I want you to work hard, whatever you do. And since that moment, it's interesting how that stayed with me. I was like, okay, I was a work, I'll just work hard. I work hard. And it did stay with me. So I never had that, they never imposed on me. you have to go to this school or that school.

It was never about that. But it was understood that we were expected to work our butts off, you know, and not take these opportunities for granted. That's awesome. What about you? Well, this is the podcast about you. No. It's a give and take people.

Look, I didn't come from a very, you know, I wouldn't say normal family. You know, definitely dysfunctional as I talked about, non-seum. But, you know, in terms of education, I've always had attention deficit disorder. I've always, I mean, I know that sometimes it feels like an excuse to people. Like, everybody's got attention. If you get to know me like Ryan or if you get to know, you know, it's like, squirrel, it's like it's really hard for me to focus. And being a child, you know, I wasn't drugged up, which I'm grateful for.

But at the same time, there wasn't a lot of patience in my household. No one sat me down and said, hey, let's just take our time, take a deep breath. Let's learn this and let's, you know, and no, I had, there was no, it was just like I'm not getting good grades. Why? I don't know. Get better grades. There wasn't any of that. So for me, it was just growing up feeling really stupid.

Like I felt I wasn't intelligent. I can't do things. And my grades are bad. Why can't I do even simple things? And no, it's like, it's almost like no one just really paid enough attention or any attention. So I felt like I was colorblind, yet I was going to art class and getting Ds and Fs. And no one was figuring it out. And I'm like, why are you failing the color wheel?

Primary colors, secondary colors. I was like, it's all, I don't know what any of this means. So it just felt like I had a learning deficiency. And so I look back and I definitely am able now to think, hey, you didn't have the things you needed as a child. You didn't have the patience. You didn't have the understanding and the love and all the things that a child in his developmental stages needs. So I'm aware of that and it comforts me knowing that, you know, that was unfortunate and it wasn't my fault. And I wasn't dumb.

I just didn't have the right circumstances. Right. I think my parents did the best they could. Right. You know, my dad worked, never missed a day of work, worked from 6 a.m. to 6 p.m., came home, had dinner, you know, hopefully he was in a good mood. and then I left and I was so we didn't have really the best relationship it wasn't it really affectionate or anything like that so it's different it's different um but I do I am what's the word I respect that my father really worked hard and provided for his family but I

think um some men or women think that just providing alone you're a great parent if I put a roof over your head. Right. And I give you the things you need. That means I'm a good parent. And that's not true. It's more about the affection, the love, the understanding, the patience, all the things that go into parenting. And I just think he knew that. They did know that. And my mother, I think, was the center of attention. She wasn't ready. She shouldn't have had children. You know what I mean? She was out for herself. She was more interested in her life than she was ours. And that's just, that's just a reality. I don't, I don't hate her for it. It's just like that's. So it's a different mentality. That's why I was like, hey, listen, night and day. And look, listen, I'm a parent now and

God knows. You make mistakes. Do I ever, man. And constantly, and I think what's the old adage that you try and screw up your kids half as much as you thought you were screwing out? So, yeah, I don't know if I'm doing how I'm doing on that regard. Are you patient with them? You know, I try. I try. You know, there are things I think I do. better than other things and what's your strength what's my strength i i try to lead by example i try i don't always right um i try to uh own up to my mistakes and and let them know you know i just messed up you realize that and i'm owning it things like that if they ask you a question if they say dad did you ever drink would you go yes i did yeah and that's an interesting question though

it depends at what age of course you know dad are you a drunk yeah You're eight years old. No, I'm not. No, I'm not. You know, but, no, that's a really layered and interesting question because I think there is a time when you can tell them that stuff. Sure, sure, sure. But no, I think in terms of if the, you know, trying to pass on things that I find helpful, you know, particularly as we were talking about things that are challenging in this industry, just like, you know, how to deal with mental health, you know, how to deal with, you know, the voices of criticism, how to deal with anxiety. you know things that i think i find helpful uh things that i find you know and you know how the the old

adage of success leaves footsteps is seeing how other people have done it you know and and and being open to the world and saying look you know you take from this example in this example being malleable right just soluble make your bed you know at least if you had a bad day at least you know you made your bed yeah you know it's things like that or it's or it's gratitude i know i listened to your interview with robert patrick it was amazing and yeah it was beautiful and you spoke about that about how he gets up in the morning and he prays and he puts a pillow and he kneels on it and he thanks god for waking up that morning do you do that you know i don't do that specifically but you know not not too long ago we've been implementing this notion of like three things that

you're grateful for at the you know when we have a meal that's awesome and it's and it it does affect your day you know if you start the day or at least or even in the middle of the day if you do that it puts everything in perspective it just you know and you know so so that that the someone else the other day, we were having dinner and someone, I'm sure this is something a lot of people know about it. I didn't know about this. But he said, instead of saying, I got to do this, you say I get to do this. I got to.

Ryan, think about that when you wake up and I'm like, I got to go do this damn podcast. Hey, I get to do this podcast. It's kind of fun. It's incredible. I need to do that too. Not the easiest. You got to do that. No, you get to do that.

I get to do that. No, I get to do that. I get to make that choice. You get to make that choice. You get to make that choice. Yeah. just get instead of have to. And it's amazing how a shift in a word, you know, the way you ascribe a word, you know, how, how it changes a meaning or you're, so it's things like that

that I hope as a parent that I'm able to impart on them, you know, that I think are more helpful than not. When did you decide like, I'm sure you told this story, but, you know, you got a degree in English, right? Do you get your master's in Harvard? No, I just, it was just, it was just a Bachelor of Arts. But were you doing theater at Harvard? No, here's the thing at at school in Harvard at the time is that there was not much of an acting program at all. I didn't know what I was I wanted to do. All I knew was, you know, I applied to all these schools, you know, and then I was like, okay, I guess I'll go there, you know, and I had no clue. I had no idea. I didn't know that. I had no, I'd never acted, you know, at that point,

I hadn't even been in a school play. I had no interest in it. And then, and I thought I'd be a lawyer. You know, I thought I didn't go to some kind of business. And then there was one elective at the time at Harvard that was taught by this man named David Wheeler, who was an incredible acting coach. I think he coached Pacino for years. And, you know, he was well known. And I didn't know anything about him at the time, but, you know, later found out, oh, he's like a big, he's like a big deal. Yeah. And he introduced me to this book, you know, the class Meisner on acting, Samford Meiser and Act. And it wasn't until I read that book,

you know, front cover to back, that I realized, wow, this is something I want to explore. And there was nothing else, no other electives at Harvard at the time. There was one other one at the American Repertory Theater that you could take, a Shakespeare thing. That was it. Other than that, people were doing plays

in the basements of the houses. So what did you do? So I did plays in the basements. Really? You did that. And then eventually I was like, I got to study this technique. And so I had to wait until I graduated.

which was a bummer but you know but I couldn't wait and I did I was like I got to finish for my parents say because I was like there's nothing here is going to be particularly applicable to what I want to do but I can't do that to my parents now and did they know you were doing this place in the basement or did they see you ever no because it was in the basement who's going to go to the basement it's not like I was selling out the ART so so no so I dropped the bomb on them you know and I don't know how that went over with you you know because i think i'd heard you say that yeah i just remember we were in denny's after i did a play i think it was prelude to a kiss or something and i just looked at my dad and i was like i'm gonna be an actor and he goes eat your steak and that was that and hold on it was this you

went to college right you went to indiana i went to western kentucky university in bollandre in kentucky all of it yeah my life is just a lot of lucky in the right place at the right time making the right decisions and some of it being very prepared, luckily. It was just a lot of, you know, just things that just happened that I could have gone in so many different directions. Not many. It would have been like I would have been a DJ at a roller rink or a working at a go-car shop or nothing wrong with that.

Wesselman's groceries, sacking groceries, or working at Sonoco gas station. And, you know, it was one of those things where all of a sudden, you know, this guy that live down the street goes, hey, and he was popular. Hey, you want to, hey, go to Western Kentucky, man, we'll be roommates. I'm going. I go, okay. And I just, and I got in. It was easy to get in. And then I went there. And that's why I went college. And did you, did you apply to other schools or that was just the one just to go that guy? That was it. That was, that was it. That was it. That was it. But it was an easy school to get into. And by the way, I'm glad it was that school because I learned so much. Because, you know, college really isn't all about or the majority isn't

about, you know, great grades. And it's really about how learning how to be social, learning how meeting people that are on the same wavelength, being creative, growing up. There's so many other variables. It's just not, I got to study and get to do this to get to this job. Of course, there's that. But, you know, I think it's experience and experience not only with, you know, work, but experience with who you are and growing up and becoming the individual.

that you know you're destined to be you're absolutely right i mean it's the first time for most people that they're out of the house and that they're they're communing they're living with people you know roughly the same age and they're kind of on their own is you know so there is that you're right all the interpersonal stuff all that social stuff is sort of the first time you're exposed you're kind of thrown into the deep end in that regard so that is yeah but you're right i mean for those who are studying for you and i who went for more of a bachelor arts degree it's less about okay what grade you're going to get unless you're going to go into academia and some some level but yeah for the people who are trying to you know or you can be a doctor's obviously

lawyers you know they got to put the work in you got engineers there's for me there's no way around that wasn't in the table no we're neither from it wasn't for me either i was not a math genius was or anything like that so i was never 12 times 11 132 that's right yeah because uh then you had 12 144 is 12 times 12 so i mean nicely done hey hey you know but what uh did you have like i'm obviously doing these plays in the basement and you're getting some it was there one person in particular that you remember going he looks at you and says or she and says hey you've got something there i think you should do that was there because we all need that person it's such a great um yeah it's a it's a really good it's a great point because i've never thought of it like that you had to have

someone along the way even if you started to make it you were wherever that projector are you know I don't know that there's any one individual who said that's like, dude, you got to, you have to pursue this, you know, I was terrible in the beginning. I was awful, you know, it was all, I was like, I don't, you know, I was in my head. I was like, what is? Nervous.

Nervous. All of the above. I wanted it, you know, once I knew I loved it, I wanted it too much. All those pitfalls, you know, I fell into. And it, it just was a gradual sort of progression of, I thought, of like, okay, you know, I'll find this. I'm going to find it, you know. So there was one guy.

at Harvard who did have his own company and he used students, his name was Eric Engel, and he did do a few productions that were not in the basement. And he was pretty great. And I remember he had an impact on me because I just, I don't know, that was one guy who definitely did. So yeah, maybe it was Eric Engel. It might have been.

Eric Engel. Look at that. You haven't thought about that name for a while, have you? Man, it's been a long time since I thought about Eric, yeah. What is the first gig you got that you're getting paid, you're on TV, it's something like, do you remember that moment when you found out you got it for the first time? I want to hear about yours too. All right.

Go ahead. We will trade. Okay. But this one is, I find, I thought it was quite epic because I was a kid. You know, I already knew what I wanted. So in the summers, my parents live in Greenwich, Connecticut. So not a long commute to New York City. I was able to get a waitering job.

I met waiters who had commercials. agents i got with a commercial agent started going out for commercials in the summer and so i went up for all these you know national commercials for you know just an all-american kid and i just wasn't i wasn't getting the all-american roles and i wasn't even getting close callbacks and a buddy of mine who would book a bunch of these he's like dude you know you got to work the the latin angle got to work that latino angle and i go yeah you know they are going to send me to some you know spanish speaking ones it goes yeah dude and it goes whatever you do you know you've seen those things they're really like sort of exuberant They're just really,

he goes, man, he just go for it. I go, really? He goes, yeah, man, he just go for it. So I went up for the zest commercial. Zest fully clean? You're not fully clean? Until you're zest fully clean. Okay, good.

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Can you do it? Yeah. If you stay banja with a jabon, look what you get. Yes. So that was the copy. And it was like, I remember like going in there getting this copy

and there's like 400 dudes had signed up before me. I'm like, oh my God. And then I had my friend in my head saying, no, you got to, you got to. And I had like this awful like cliched moment in the mirror outside, you know, in the bathroom outside the casting office.

I'm okay, do you go for this thing. You're going to go for it. You're going to go for it. And I did, and I went for it. And I got in there and I go, Si Uste, se vajun, and the cast director goes,

great, give me more. So I just kept amping it up. She, ste, I go, haon, look, see, that's amazing. So I went home.

I booked the job. I was, I was like 19. I was going to get my sag card. I was over the moon. I was like jumping up and down. I got the calls like, I got my,

I'm, you know, I get to the sack. And I remember meeting the director and he goes to me, hey, do you remember what you did in the audition? And I go, yeah. He goes, don't do that. I'm like, oh, no. I was like, what? He goes, don't do that.

I go, oh, okay, we're not going to do that. Obviously, they just hired me for my look or my, you know, I don't know my. But it was in Spanish. It wasn't Spanish. I just had to do it. So you just did it very calm down. I brought it down a few notches. But it was, to me, I hit the lottery, you know.

And it ran for a while. It ran. It ran for enough. It didn't pay much. The Spanish ones don't pay. But who cares, man? It was exactly. It was more than I was waking as a waiter.

And it was my side card. And I was 19. And I was like, I want to hear yours. You know, I think I got this part on, it was a CBS show, Matt Waters, educating Matt Waters with Montel Williams. And he was the lead. And Selma Blair was in the episode. It was just an episode. It was the only, it's one of the few episodes of television I've done, if not as a, but as a guest star.

Oh, really? And I had the best time. We shot for like two weeks and I was just in heaven. I got to improvise and have fun. I felt like I was a kid. I didn't care about where the camera was, what it was doing, how I looked. I just was enjoying life. And, you know, I made like, I remember it was like $1,800 for the episode.

And I was like, oh, my Lord. That's amazing. Actually, rewind that. My first gig was, I was on Late Night with Conan O'Brien. And this is when nobody listened to him. Nobody. Late night with Conan O'Brien and the character, I was a character who didn't make the show. But they still showed the character.

So it was two. That's funny. It was the Amsterdam kids. And it was two kids who were misinformed about Amsterdam's liberal social policies. Maybe I'll put this on air. It's, and it was just like, hey, Conan, man. I had this long hair down to my shoulders. I'm like, he's like, yeah, so it's the Amsterdam kids, folks.

And I go, yeah, Conan, you know, man, in Amsterdam, you could just squawk down in the middle of the street and take a dump and no one will care, man. It's performance art, Conan. He's like, no, no, no, that's not true. No, it's true. And we, I went on and on. And it turned into like six episodes. What?

And it was so heartbroken when they stopped. But you know what kind of always bothered me? I was a guest on Conan of Ryan. and I like Conan but we did a pre-interview you know the pre-interviews and I said oh I have a great story because I used to be you know recurring character when the show when he was just first day he goes and comes back to me goes yeah Conan doesn't want to talk about that he doesn't like to talk about that old I go it's epic I was like it's epic I never understood it but I was like oh okay well let's talk about I guess today's news oh my god that's it was fine it was fine so that when you book that

What was that for you emotionally? And how did you tell your parents? Did you tell them? I still have the message. Oh, wow. You know, they, I don't remember them going, wow, this is great. You're playing this, you know, character on the show that nobody watches. I don't remember them being, but I remember my friend Kent Brennaman left a message, which I still have.

He goes, Rosenbaum. Good Lord, son. I'm turning on the TV. And I see you on there on this Conan or. whatever dude give me a call and i gave him a call i hadn't talked to him for a while and it was a good buddy growing up and after after that we just remained close friends but i remember i was like wow he's excited so it's always fun when your friends are excited or your friends might watch a show that you do or because most of the time they're like most of the time you do a lot of work that

no one that goes unnoticed sure most people don't have time like okay man i'm doing this everybody watch nobody watches do you ask your friends and family to watch stuff you do no Now, very, very seldom. You know, with music, I'll say, the first album, I was like, hey, guys, worked really hard. Could everybody do this? You know, they sent out like 50 emails to friends, just a shit thing. But I don't really do that a lot. Right.

I don't, you know, I don't say, hey, watch this, do this. Yeah. I just kind of like, you know, if they know a minute, you know, you hope they'd go see it. It's interesting. I feel the same way. I mean, I do do some, you know, obviously the Instagram, the, you know, and, And but I feel and I'm wondering if it's if it's more of, you know, you don't want to, you know, burden people with like having to watch it as much as it is preserving that fourth wall. So that when you're performing, you're not thinking about like who's going to be watching this.

You're in the moment. Yeah. I think if you think too much sometimes and like having people on set always bothered me. Can't have it. And I have had it before. Like even at a convention that I was at, one of my friends, you know, hey, come me and the family. and seen them in so long and they moved and I felt like I have to see them. Right.

But, you know, it was, it was like, you know, I had to, it's energy. It's a lot of energy. And when they're on the set, you know, it's always like someone's watching me. I can't really focus. I'm not. Well, you're not in it. I'm not in it. Have you done that before and regretted it?

Oh, yeah, no, no, no one, you know, now. No one anymore. No one comes on. And now with COVID and you can't anyway. Right. But even before that, yeah, very, also, you know, you know, after a half hour of craft service and them hanging out their trail. They're bored. Everybody's bored. No one cares. It's like no one wants to visit it. You're doing this scene for four hours now. Exactly right. Yes. Are they going to move

on? Yeah. I'm like, I hope so. Now you know that it's not that glamorous. Did you ever deal with like, I mean, we're getting into like, you know, the career and stuff because I know you did a lot of TV guest stars. I know you did a lot of soap opera and you did all these things. Um, were you always, did you, were you excited about the things as they started happening or was there a time when you said, oh fuck another guest star for this when am i going to get or were you always kind of excited and eager and like living in the moment you know i mean i get to do this i always got to do those guest stars and no listen there was a time when when you're like no no i i don't know that i ever fully fully you know took those opportunities for granted especially at the time because i was

trying to build you know a resume and also trying to with a guest spot usually it was like oh i haven't played this role before. This might be interesting. So is, you know, and at the time, it was really the only way to cobble together a year. It was like, you want to book, you know, a guest spot and that kind of thing. I'll tell you the most impactful guest spot that turned into probably one of the biggest opportunities of my life was, was lost. You're a guest star. Lost was, lost was, I'll tell you quickly how that happened. I, my wife was a huge fan of the show. I'd watch the pilot, and I was like, cool, but I lost the thread, so I stopped watching, you know, a few episodes in, but She was like a devoted fan.

Me too. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And a year and a half, endure. And I like the ending. I don't care what people said. Thank you for that. I really did.

You and me both. So you were along for the emotional right. Exactly. I'm really emotional at the end. Well, there you go. So I remember she said, look, and she was acting at the time. She goes, if either one of us gets a job on that show, we're all going to Hawaii. If it's a guest spot, we're all going.

That's the rule. And I'm like, all right, Shannon. All right. Fair enough. Sure enough, I get an audition. I got an audition. This is the beginning of season three. And I'm like, oh, man.

And we had to go to a kid's orientation for a preschool for our oldest son. And we're like, I got to do this. This audition. It's 13 pages of material. I go, I'll never know this by tomorrow. It's not going to happen. And my wife's like, look, just don't say no. Anyway, long story short, I looked at the material.

But you didn't have it memorized. No, it wasn't a book. And then I woke up in the morning saying there's no way I'm going in on this thing and blow and my shot and lost and then I read it and I was like you know what to hell with it I'm gonna go and I bailed on my kids education basically and I was like I'm going in this room and I didn't know the material all that I certainly didn't know off book I knew the essence of it go in there but usually I don't know how about you I like to be off book look I have to be off book I think you know and the thing is it's I've talked about this but it's not easy for me to learn lines as fast as

most people but I like to be off book yes always always but go ahead so you can relax and you can play and you can truly be there of course i and most actors do not all but most and so i wasn't obviously and i go in there and i and then i see guys who are completely different age you know uh you know uh race everything you know types and were like wow this i don't know what i don't know what they know what they want necessarily for this role i was like i was just doing my thing and i went in there and it was one of those i'm sure you've had these where you're like i don't know I don't know what's going to happen. And it somehow comes together in the room.

It doesn't always happen. Certainly not for me. But I was like, I think that came together. I think there was some connecting and I think it kind of worked. But you never know. But sure enough, I get the yes. And I'm like, yeah. And it was almost like that Zest commercial.

I had that same sort of reaction. It's like, we're going to Hawaii. My wife's like, we're all going. And I was like, okay. So we all went for the guest spot. Sure, you know, did this backstory for, you know, Elizabeth Mitchell's character. And I was like, that's it. I'll never I'm not coming there I was in a backstory there's no way and then I get a call

five weeks later they want you back on the island in present time and that changed everything so there was an opportunity there was when they said that at that point I was like what does this mean is it one episode they said no they just said they couldn't say and they didn't know they didn't know and they wouldn't give you a guarantee of at least three no nothing you just went I just went and I was like I'm not going to question this we're just going to we're going to go with the flow and I went And then I kept coming back and coming back. And then the role sort of is this role that was shrouded in mystery. And so I benefited from that because it was like, well, who the hell is this guy?

He's weird. Such a cool, weird. Looks like he's got eyeliner on. You hear that a lot because you have, I wish, you don't understand. You've got the best eyebrows, eyelashes. I mean, you're just so, like you look at you're like, you're striking. But for me, I have to have my friend Joe come over and talk in my eyebrows. I look like an albino.

I swear to got you. It's my eyebrows. When I'm on set, they have to do that. You know, I'm just kind of like playing Jane here. But anyway, go ahead. So that becomes something. But they still don't make you a regular until season six. And in fact, the head of ABC, didn't they were like, no more guest stars for him?

Or they were like, it was like, you know, it was during the rider strike. And a lot of shit was going on. But did you ever think you could be a regular? Well, it's interesting how this, how this happens, you know. And this is told this. I don't think I've told this particular part of how this works out. So they didn't know. And to be fair, to the writers, they didn't know where the role was going.

They sort of went with it. They knew where the show was ending and where it was the beginning. It was going to start on Jack's eye and on his eye. And emotionally they knew and thematically they knew. Everything else was movable parts, which was what was amazing about the show. It's like what Damon said is like, you know, once they, you know, they hit the walls. They started like their, like their bottom. boxed in while they started to climb up the walls. And so, so they were so inventive. And the show

was so rich in that way. And it was amazing. And my character benefited from that. So lo and behold, it gets to a point where, you know, I love guesting on it. I've been recurring on it now for a season a bit. But I need, I need pilot. I need to get a pilot. I need pilot money. If they're not going to commit to anything, you know, I got to support the family. My wife had just, you know, essentially quit, you know, acting. So I was like, it's on me now. I got to get at least a pilot fee, if not a pilot that goes, to start paying for these schools and, you know, and just life. And so I was like, well, just, you know,

and so I did this pilot called, or Kane for CBS. Kane. It's about a Cuban family of sugar, you know, in the sugar business in Florida. And with Jimmy Smiths and Hector Elizondo, Rita Moreno. It's a great cast, amazing cast. And, but I was like, I hope this doesn't jeopardize my role on Lost. Yeah.

as we asked we said look I may do this pilot but if you guys offer us something just even a six minimum episode thing I won't do the pilot because I want to preserve this on loss because you know I mean I love the role they wouldn't do that and they're like we just don't know we can't so I was like well you know I got to pay bills man I got to you know and look the cane was a great opportunity in and of itself it was like these great cash so I was like and but I've got to also feed the family so so I went I did cane I had a blast on cane and then I go back then they call me back on lost and I was like, oh, they need me now and lost. And then I remember landing in Hawaii, and I remember telling Jack Bender, I go, don't kill me off. Do not kill me off on the show. I don't know that this pilot's

going to get picked up. So I, please don't kill me off. And he goes, what's it about? He goes, well, it's about this, you know, wealthy Cuban family and, you know, that is in the run business and, you know, in Florida. He goes, it's about rich people in Florida. I guess, that's never going to go. You know, so just conceptually, he's like, that's not going to get picked up. And sure enough, it gets picked up and they don't kill me off and i'm like oh no no i mean i'm like now wow i hope i didn't put the show in a pickle but you know but your fault but it's now you know so not my fault so sure enough you know but now i was like i hope we're able to work around you know and i did 13 episodes of kane it didn't go beyond that but as i'm doing that i'm hoping i hope they bring me back on lost and sure

enough, Kane, you know, Ken gets killed through the writer's strike. And then, and then Lost does call me back. And I go, great. And then at that point, we're like, hey, can we do a deal, anything, you know? And they're like, we just don't know where the role is going. And they didn't know. So, very long story. I, you know, continue doing Lost. And then another opportunity comes up. And it's just a six episodes to test for Kath and Kim, you know, to play one of them. And they're forced. You forced their hand inadvertently. And that's when they made the deal. Those bastards. But listen, it's just the way of the business. I know. They're trying to save money. They don't want to make your regular. It's like, you know, they knew how

integral, you know, the part it was. They do and they don't. To be fair, I don't, you know, when it's that. And there's a lot of characters. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I know. That's true. And if you get on the other side of it as a producer, you have to think, look, it's not an unlimited budget, you know, and these things get inflated very quickly. And it's crazy where they start cutting and they have to because they have to justify it. So I get the other side of it. You know, it's just the business. It's just the nature of it.

And until you learn leverage, you don't know what, you know, what you have. And it's not, you know, there's no animosity there. It's just, it's just understanding how it works, you know. Yeah. You know, you, we were talking originally about before that story and the other story, which are great stories, but we were talking about like, you, you know, you didn't mind being guest stars. And that's because you especially have, I mean, I don't want to say lucked out, but you have

worked hard improving yourself. And they're like, whoa, we got to bring this guy back over and over again. It even happened on Bates Motel, right? Weren't you a guest star on that? Well, like a recurring. The Bates was different. Bates was, you know, I'd worked with Carlton Cuse on Lost. You know, he was one of the exact producers on that show.

And so he asked me to come and do Bates. But it was, again, they didn't have the money to make me a regular. Right. So it was like, look, this will be recurring. We'll give you this is what we can afford first season. If there's chemistry between you and Vera, we're thinking long play there and then we'll make your regular second season. And so that's what happened.

But still sort of like that's sort of the same thing. There wasn't if it's sort of, but you proved yourself as an actor and they're like, oh my God, we got to give this guy. Well, you're right. But then again, you know, Michael, you know this more than anyone, is that as an actor that you're always kind of auditioning for your job. Yeah. You know, until you somehow become.

somewhat indispensable to the storyline and it's rare that that happens you're you're always kind of auditioning for that role to stay relevant as a part of the show and to be asked back season after season because yeah you have to get that letter every June that where they pick up your option and and you have to be integral to that show so I learned that the hard way on suddenly Susan you know or I didn't I learned it that I saw it you know Brooke Shields right yeah great loved lovely great great group of people all amazing incredible that was the Andrew Green what's up yeah there you go we love you absolutely Steve Peterman Gary Donzick incredible and I just had lunch with him he did that three years right we did four

years four years yeah and so but I remember I don't know if if you read for now I'm blanking on his name but head of casting of Warner Brothers for the longest time Tony Sepulveda yes Tony Spolvita I call him Sepulveda oh Tony good old Tony man So Tony cast, suddenly Susan, amongst many of the NBC shows. He was my Groundlings teacher. Yes, he was. That's right. He was a Groundling's teacher.

He's incredible. He kept trying to recruit me to go there. I was like, no, I'm too scared. It's great. I heard it's amazing. Oh, man, it really loosened job. I loved it. I loved it.

But Tony, I remember at the end of the first season, he said, do you realize that every, at least one guest spot was hired, was fired every week after the table read on the first season? And it was, and I look back and I go, he's right. Somebody was fired. And I won't say what names. Some names. I've been fired off the table. And it's, and it's especially in that world, the sitcom world, it's so, unless you're hitting it at the table, there's no job security.

And you're proving it at every run through. And you're fighting for those jokes at every run through. And it's very much a fear-based medium. We've done a bit of a half hour too, right? Yeah. Exactly. You know, my buddy John, I won't say his last name. I don't think he gives a shit.

Grocery shopping. Cho-ching. Ordering food? Cha-ching. Filling up on gas? Cha-ching. Commuting? Cho-ching.

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We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast, PLEF. form. But he did a table read for a Will Farrell, who is Farrell's partner, Adam McKay at the time. They had this TV show. And he flew to her ever. And he did the table read. And he went to his room. And his agent called him and said, hey, man, they let you go. He's like, what? He's like, yeah, the table read, I guess didn't go well. They're looking for somebody different. And he's like, so he had to get on a plane and fly back. Sure. Yeah. that's fucking brutal yeah it's happened to me do you get how do you how do you

how do you remember feeling awful just completely ejection oh listen i remember it happened to me and then i i got off the phone and my son was there and i was like i just got fired and he's like and he's amazing he's responsible you get another one and he's like i was like thank you for that and i was so sweet of him but it's it's one of those things where you just go you take the blow you take the hit and you know obviously you you pick yourself up and you know day at a time kind of thing but you can't help but take it personally there's a million reasons why there's what's wrong with me yeah yeah am i not maybe i'm not the great they found me out i'm not a great actor yeah i'm the imposter that i was thought i was it's there's a million reasons it's bullshit it's

because fear-based and they didn't come and say hey um let's talk to you about the role you know the reading we would cast you for a reason you could more energy whatever they just fire you it's so stupid arbitrary or there's always been uh a hang up about hiring in the first place you and they had someone else in mind and they never got their way. And so there's all of these things that are layered with these decisions that some of your control.

Some of them are out of your control. Some are not, but some are out of your control. You can't guess which ones are which, you know? I hate table reads. They're awful. They're awful because you don't know if you're giving too much energy.

They think I'm going to be like this in the show or maybe I'm like this. I'm like, oh, no, he's kind of boring. Fuck you. And listen, and you, and you, Right. I know you're right, right? You're right? Yeah. So you know, do you find that a table read is helpful to you as a writer? Oh, absolutely. Just to read, I've had some pilots read that I've written and having friends come over and read them and bring them to life. Absolutely. It brings life to them. And I also, when I hear them out loud, I go, yeah, yeah, that's not what I want in my head. Interesting. Obviously. But yeah, I think it does help you as a writer. It helps you, you know, what you have on the page. Sometimes is your own voice, is what you're hearing. But one people when you actually hear it out loud from other people it can make you just change directions or go yeah yeah I need more of that I need less of that but um that's not the answer I was looking

for it no I write and I I I don't need to hear other people say you don't I mean I normally don't but I have done it no but I know other writers are like you most of them are like I need to hear it I was like no no you don't my writing is I'm a Harvard grader you don't I studied English I I don't need people to hear, you read my shirt. It's flawless. It's absolutely not the reason. It's because I feel like it's, the table read's never going to be an accurate representation of how this is going to play out on its feet, what actors are going to bring to it, you know, how they're

going to interpret it. It's never going to be that. And, you know, you can kind of already hear like, I know it doesn't work on the page when I'm reading it. So I know it'll definitely, there's no one who can make this work. Yeah. You know, that's just the way I feel about it. I understand.

I don't know. Let me ask you this real quick, because there's. There's a couple more things I want to talk to you about. And then we get some rapid fire questions. But, I mean, there's so much I want to talk to you. I want to talk to you about. We're going to definitely talk about your wife's book. And it's great.

It looks amazing. You've already told me you'll fill me in. All is not lost, Shannon Kenny, how I friended failure on the island and found a way home. If this doesn't make you like our listeners, I mean, go ahead. Listen, I can't gush about my wife enough. She's incredible. You brought this and you're like, I think it makes sense. for your show.

And I'm like, please. I didn't wanna do a shameless plug, but I thought having listened to your show and thinking, this might be right up your alley. This is about, my wife gave up her career to be a full-time mom when her second son was born. She was pregnant with Marco as she was working on seventh heaven. You know, she was on that.

And when soon as she was born, she's like, I just can't do it. I go, not that women shouldn't be able to do both. She goes, I know myself, I can't not be home and give this child, both of them, what they, you know, all of me. And she's like, you know, if it's cool with you, it's on you to just be the full-time actor. And I was like, are you sure you want to give that up?

Because this is a woman who had no money when she came here, got into Juilliard, couldn't afford to go to Juilliard, was able to win a scholarship at Cal Arts, did every job you can imagine scrubbing toilets, anything, just to pay for, you know, the living expenses to be able to go to that school. And then she, this is all she ever wanted to do. and and she paid for the first year of actually from working as a soap opera in Australia her first year of college and then subsequently won that scholarship so this is a woman who sacrificed everything for this career and then she gives it all up after a 20 year career in film and TV and theater to do this and then she's like after the kids are somewhat self-sufficient she's like finds this cavity in her body is thinking like oh my god this creative spirit that I had nurtured for years what do I do this?

this giant hole and I know I should be grateful for these kids but by the same token I'm like I've just there's a death inside me spark is yeah isn't is gone and I you know so it it brought this incredible spiral and this all came to a head while I was shoot while we all moved to Hawaii and and I was for me to do loss they all we put the kids in school there and it was all all kind of come into she sort of crash landed on the island kind of like the plane did and it was her whole experience that year that book is all about that and And so if you're ever going through, you know, a moment where you are completely lost as she was in, in terms of your identity, she identified herself so much as this actress and you've lost that identity and you're no longer that. And you've lost this dream and you've come short of your dream in the way that you envisioned it.

You had to give it up for something else. This book is, I think we'll really speak to it. Wow. That's amazing. I mean, just the thought of, you know, sometimes even like on another level. it's like maybe you've um that thing that you've always wanted to do and that was what your most your part a big part of you is gone but maybe you have a different path or maybe you have a different whatever or you're trying to get that spark back or there's all these different things and thoughts

and on the back of the book the personal memoirs i guess i mean look look at this you say vera fermiga right yeah um Shannon's touching chucklesome and shoot from the ovaries testimony reminds me that those obligatory ruts in life, be it bereavement, heartbreak, or stuckness are things that are happening for me, not to me, for me, not to me. How do we unleash the energy to move ahead of our creative dead ends? How do we overcome the unseen forces that stand in the way of inspiration? Read this gorgeous narrative. You just may give yourself the confidence and permission to move past your feeling of being stuck. Beautiful. I think that speaks for itself. Holy shit. It's incredible and and and she's she's right on every level and and it's also

she's right. It's a chucklesome in the sense that the there's a lot of humor in it and Shannon you know even though she's going through all this pain is not she's a very funny person and yeah and so she finds the humor even in and the irony in a lot of these situations but it's yeah beautifully written by all is not lost how I friended failure on the island and found a way home get this book Shannon Kenny. Oh, thank you, buddy. I mean, this is just apropos. Oh, thank you. Thank you for this. I wanted autographed. Also, I have to ask you, what's it like kissing Vera Formigo? All right, I can't plead the fit there. Come on. You can't answer that, can you? I can't, no. She's a lovely, listen, she's a very good friend. You're very professional.

No, I always talk about Kristen Kruke kissing her on the small valve. I was like, it was amazing. Listen, it's, great breath. Listen, it's, you don't have to answer. No. Oh, she's a, listen, she's a very good friend of mine. And she is, I have always loved her. I think she's brilliant since I saw her in The Departed. She's incredible. I was like, this is an actress I will always watch. She's extraordinary.

She really, truly is. And even, you know, we did five years together. We worked five years. And there was never a moment where I wasn't just, like, completely shocked or impressed by her insane range, you know. Oh, man. You know, one of the, here's one thing. You always pick up things from actors that you admire. And one of the things I picked up from her

because she had so much material. She had these huge speeches and monologues and stuff in the middle of these scenes beautifully written by Carrie Aaron. But she would get these and she's like dealing with kids, you know, at home and this and that and they're young and trying to memorize this stuff at three in the morning and, you know,

crying, the kids crying. And she would get there and, you know, and she would flub. And it's interesting when you watch actress flub and they go up on a line, how they react. And usually I know I'd heard that you were an athlete or you did sports growing up. about hockey and everything.

Yeah. You know, and there's just, to me, I bristled and I, you know, I played soccer and it was not particularly good, but I, you know, I loved sports, but I, if I miss up, I try to muscle through it. I was like, you know, and I tend to tighten up a little bit. I would see her flub and I'd do the, and I'd see her do the opposite and she would just kind of do this thing where she goes, aha, and she would turn into jello and I was like, what is she doing?

And then I was like, oh my God, of course, you know. You can't remember anything when you're tight. How could you possibly feel anything when you're tight, other than tightness? You're not going to be open to anything. And it's certainly not going to help your memory to suddenly beat yourself up because you forgot the line. And I was like, I was like, I'm stealing that. For sure, I'm stealing. That is awesome.

And it is. And it's like interesting what you learn from different talents that you admire. And that was certainly one thing. I was like, oh, my God, I'm taking that home. Well, we didn't even get into this, but it's like, you know, I didn't know. You directed a lot. You direct a lot. You create your own stuff.

You're doing it. You're not just an actor for hire. You're like a triple threat. No, I don't know about that. You are. I mean, I'm trying. And, you know, Michael, it's like anything. You have this incredibly successful podcast.

You're doing things outside. Not really successful. No, incredibly so. Incredibly so. And, you know, you too, Ryan, both of you guys have this incredible podcast. And so, no, as you know, we all know, you kick around along in this business. So you have to create opportunities for yourself. You can't simply wait for that phone.

to ring. No. And I was lucky enough at Carlton Cus and Carrier, and they opened the door for me to direct on Bates Motel. So they opened, that opened up. Do you direct to like three, five or something? I did three of them and it was an extraordinary experience. I mean, that was the biggest, one of the biggest gifts I've ever been given. You know, that opened up a whole new world. So I'm actually now going to, I think next week, I go to New York to direct law and order, which is kind of full circle because that was the first thing I guessed it on in prime time 31 years ago. Wow. So now I'm so blessed to be able to. That's amazing. go and direct itself. And you, you did the good doctor. You worked again, what you directed an

episode with a couple episodes. Freddie Highmore. Freddie Highmore. Who's awesome. Who was in Bates Motel, who then the good doctor, you went and directed that, which probably had to be special because you know him and you probably got the best out of him. And he loved working with you. He probably said, yes, bring him. Yeah, I'd worked with the writer, you know, with David Shore, but for one on another show, obviously with Freddie. And Daniel Dick Kim produces on that show. And I worked with him I love him. So I happened to know three different people, you know, so that was a, that's another gift. And yeah, I've been lucky enough to, you know, do a few other shows, New Amsterdam. I most recently, I did three episodes on that show. Was such a... Do you feel like you're sort of gravitating

towards more directing and you're not as much acting or you'll just want to do whatever? No, I think I'm open to whatever and I think, you know, I mean, I don't know how you feel about this. Whenever I'm doing one genre, I'm, as soon as I finish that, I'm aching to do something completely different. Do you feel that way? No. No, I don't. I usually do something and then go, let's take a little break. Let's relax. Okay.

No, I don't mean like you have to jump right away. But in terms of creatively, do you feel like? My mind now, I think I was dealing with a lot of anxiety and depression stuff for like a last year or so. And I wasn't in the greatest place. I just didn't feel like me. And now it's starting to come around. In fact, someone said last night, I started going on about, I got this project with my, my buddy that these guys want to do. and then I got this other thing

and then I wrote this one and I start talking she goes, do you hear yourself right now? And I go, what? She goes, this is three months ago this is not the person that I was talking to. This is like, I just want to move away.

Well, let me ask you something because I know this speaks to so many people, particularly with the pandemic, the shutdown, I think just in general. How did you come out of it? Like, what did you use to come out of it? You know, it's a combination.

things. I think it's, you know, it's therapy. It's exercise. It's the right, you know, meds. Yeah. Not for all people, but like, you know, sometimes it helps. I notice a difference with me. But also a good group of friends that are here for you. They've been there. They've seen it. Remember when I had an anxiety attack at my birthday? Dinner? Read there? No, I don't think so. I invited you, didn't I? I think we're out of town. Oh, thank God. that would have been awkward but i remember going hey i'm having an anxiety attack i think i should go and they're like i just don't don't go we're aware of it it's okay and i'm like and i'm just like you know i feel like i was gonna pass it was just a really rotten time and i was just on the

wrong meds and getting on the right meds and it just was like i just was at me and for the last couple years i just felt like i'm just drifting away from who i am and exactly your wife's book you know all is not lost which i'm going to read um and with a combination of all those things that I spoke of, I feel like I have, I'm putting it all back together. And yet there's sort of this, there's less pressure on myself now and more excitement knowing that I have the choice,

which we always do, most of the time, if you're lucky, to do what you wanna do. And you don't have, try to do something you enjoy. Try to add an element of fun in it. So I think it's a combination. And it's like, you know, and so that's what I'm going through now, but yeah. I know you told me about your back problems, which I'm sure has precluded you from doing certain kinds of activities, but you say you did some exercise, right?

Yeah, look, I play ice hockey on Monday nights. I play tennis, yes, on Tuesday. Non-contact hockey, though. No, yes. But still a very physical game. Yeah. But we don't hit each other on purpose. But my thought is I could either have back pain and not play hockey in tennis and do these

things and being a little more pain than that. Or I could, you know, just. say, screw it. I'm going to, you just, from my mind and for my body and the feeling of just disappearing for an hour or two while you're playing sports, I don't like hiking. I don't like doing things like lifting weights. I like competitive sports, football, baseball, hockey, tennis, golf, even golf's a little slow for me. I like a little, but I like the competition. I like the adrenaline. I like the, you know, I'm like, okay, this is exciting. This is a game. There's two teams. We have to win.

I have to get some hits. I have to catch a ball. I have to, that is what I really love. And that keeps my mind a little sharper than it normally would. No question. And it's scientific from what I've learned through my therapist who basically said that if you get your heart rate up to 135 beats per minute for 25 to 30 minutes, four times a week, it's the equivalent of taking an antidepressant for 24 hours.

Wow. Yeah, I don't do that. Well, you essentially do when you're playing hockey. You're getting hockey in tennis. You're getting your heart rate up for at least 30 minutes over 135 beats. Maybe not continuously, but over the course of it, probably can't believe you will have. Right. That's amazing.

I notice now, I box now, not like sparring, but I trained, you know, if I don't do it, I feel the down. But if I do do it, I feel an endorphin rush that does laugh to me 24 hours. It's extraordinary. And I think, I don't know if you saw the Jonah Hill documentary. Yeah. Okay. I've got to finish. I've washed half of it, but 85% stut, is it, Stuts?

Stuts, yeah. Stuts, the, psychiatrists or psychotherapist, yeah. Yeah, he says, 85% of your therapy is working out. It's physical. And it's no, so it's, it's, it's extraordinary what that. I think that's true, but I also think there's a big component in therapy in working your shit out with someone. Oh, there's no question. Yeah, yeah, there's no question.

But yeah, I think exercise and therapy, those two with exercise, you're, you know you're you have the ability to yeah but exactly in terms of getting yourself off of that or having a baseline there to work with certainly exercise is is as valuable you know in some cases as an antidepressant it can be yeah can be all right this is shit talking with nestor carbonell say your name again in Spanish Nestor Carbonell Nestor Carbonell you say Carbonella no Carbonell Carbonell yeah sure yeah Ryan your half Mexican hey that's pretty good Nestor Cabernet. A vast Spanish.

Ah, yes. Yes. Bienniko to the States United. Yes, yeah, me am I,

say, Lex Lutor. Wow. You all are very very well. Yes, yes, yes, many,

my dad never learned Spanish growing up. Did you learn it in school? No, I took Latin. And I didn't

remember that either. Very, very useful. Quad nom in me he is. Not Latino. Quot nom and me he asked. La plume de matant. It's from the exorcist when she speaks Latin.

You know, I remember I went to, to Cabo or something. I got the plane. This guy recognized me years ago. He's like, Mr. Lutor, or Mr. Rosem, give me a call. I don't want to take care of you. It's pretty cool, man. Yeah, I still have a message. He called me. I don't know why. I gave him my number, and he goes, hey, Mr. Lutor, it's, hey, I need, I want to give you a deal. But he's so cool. I want to make a deal with a Luthor. Mr. Lutor, we go to, we'll go swimming. We'll do all these things with your group. Come on, give me a call. That's pretty cool.

Shit talking with Mr. Carbonell. These are from my top tier patrons. The patrons, Patreon saves the podcast. It's folks like you. Patron.com slash inside of you. Here we go. Rapid fire. You got to answer relatively fast. Kelly S. You're simply charming. I love your work. Lost, Bates, the morning show. We didn't even get into the morning show, The Weatherman. They're my favorites. How did you prepare for the role? as Alex Romero in Bates Motel and really get into that character. That's so sweet of her.

How did I prepare for Alex Romero? I remember coming to the set. You know how in theater you put on the shoes first when you get the first day of rehearsal. You start with the shoes because you get into the thing. I remember I came in with a mustache. I had grown a mustache because I was like,

this guy's got a stash for sure. And I was like, you know, I had this like massive thing that I was really happy about. I land in Vancouver and Carlton Hughes is there and it's like, hey man, I like the stash. but I think we're going to lose it. And I was like, oh, no, that's like my theater shoes.

So I was like, but at least the stash gave me a grounding to start with like, this is a guy who makes no bones about who he is even. You know, it doesn't care. So it started with a stash. Do you grow a good one, don't you? Yeah, back then it was not bad. It was a bad.

I want to see it. You got to email me one. I won't. I actually have, yeah. Do you have one right now? You know how you like, you have a picture. Let me see it. I got to see it.

Get it out. Ten minutes for me to scroll through this thing. because I can't throw a mustache. Ryan, you're going to have to edit this. Now, I got to turn the phone. Just turning the phone on is going to be 10 minutes here. Let me turn the phone. Jason will edit this.

Okay. Real quick, Jules M. I love your performance on Syke. Was the experience as wonderful as it looked. I love James. I love Duley. Maggie was on the podcast. Maggie Lawson.

It's amazing. Such a blast working on that show. I mean, so much, as you know, improvising. Did you do the show? No. The Nebraska. Amazing. It's okay.

Sorry. Little Lisa, do you have any behind the scenes stories you could tell or share when filming dark night with christopher no one oh my god dark night with yes i do a quick one all right so i uh i have to do a speech on dark night that it's not scripted on the page you know it's just like oh the mayor says a few words this and that and i'm and i'm thinking oh so you know what i'll just write something you know because i'll give this speech and then the joker's supposed to kill me or try to kill me and i'm like i better write something so i wrote something here i am writing chris noland's and so i get to i had done a scene the day before i get to the hotel this in chicago and all of a sudden

there's a speech waiting for me there and I'm going, they're giving me the speech now. And it's like this long speech. And I go, I had this idea of what I was going to say. I was like, well, I was I thinking that that was ever going to go. But now I was like, now I'm going to matter. It's 10 o'clock to memorize that. Yeah. And it was like 10 o'clock at night. I was like, were you stressed? Yeah. Were you nervous? Of course. Anxiety. Massive. And it's like, there's going to be 1,200 extra. How did you do it? Awfully. So I, I was up all night learning it. Finally, I remember being there with 1,200, you know, extra background workers there in the middle of the Financial District of Chicago.

I'm supposed to give this speech, you know, and he's using an IMAX camera, which is like 200 grand a take, is what I'm thinking. Like, these things are massive and so expensive. And sure enough, I'm doing this, after walking this parade with Maggie Gillenhall, you know, and then, and so I go to Maggie, I was like, Maggie, can you just look at this? I don't even know. I was like, I just see if I'm off book here. So I'm like running lines with Maggie as we're walking.

And finally I get to the podium and I like, I got to give the speech. And I don't want to read off. I was like, that's so lame. They had it though? They had it there if I wanted to read. Oh, I would have done that. I would have. No, but then it's like, then you don't really know it.

I got to read this. But that's what a mayor would do. You kind of read things and go, hey. Or usually they have those prompters where you know, you know, you know, like they would cut away. Yeah, but I was like, but no, but no, but I didn't want it. So I wanted it. I wanted it to be. So sure enough, I'm like going off.

And then like on the first take, like I kind of go up. And then all of a sudden, I'm like, fuck, I'm going up. And there's 1,200 people. And then there's Chris Nolan. There's got an iPad that he's suing it, seeing it all of an iPad, not far off the set. And then I'm like, oh, sorry, sorry, can we go again? He's like, and he goes, and that's true. It's just me.

It's just me. It's just me. Oh my gosh. But it was in that moment, he really truly relaxed me. And I was like, this guy is like, amazing. So, you know, it was like, all of a sudden, I was like, dude, you. He is super cool. And that was that.

It was pretty cool for Maggie to read with you. How cool is that? Raj, where were you when you found out your first cast on loss and how did you react? Well, we already know that. You already answered that question. Yeah, yeah, but I'll tell you when I got the dark night where I was. Where? I was in the jungles, in the jungle in Hawaii, shooting loss in my phone rings as my manager.

Oh, actually, this is interesting. And he goes, I had read for Chris Nolan four months ago. And I was like, whatever. Obviously, it didn't happen. And so I'm there with Michael Emerson, you know, in the middle of the jungle, in between takes. And I'm going, I picked it up. My manager's like, hey, so Chris Nolan wants to, wants to know if he can see some tape on you. And I go, for what movie?

He goes, the Batman, when he goes, that was like four months ago. And I go, yeah, because I should send him this reel over this stuff. I go, no, I had just done smoking aces that hadn't come out. And it was like, Matthew Fox. It happened to be. I ended up killing Matthew Fox, which was another weird coincidence. And then I'm going, I'll see if you can get Joe Carnahan to send him those scenes

because that's the most recent stuff and it's universal. I don't know. Carnahan was such a mensch. My manager calls Joe Carnahan. They sent over a spliced together performance, 15 minutes of my work to Chris Nolan. I get a call back, you know,

days later in Hawaii. Dude, you're doing the dark night. I mean, you know, so those are those moments that you're like, you know, those are the highs for sure. Jeez. Plenty of lows. There's plenty of lows. Oh, I know.

Oh, I know. Last question. Ray H. Hadda. Have there been any characters you played where it was particularly hard to connect with them? With the character. Many. Many.

Many where you're like, wow, this is like my foot doesn't fit in the shoe, you know. And usually sometimes those are offers where you're like, I didn't read for this. And they got me. And that is the beauty and the curse of an offer. I always say that. You know, you just, you're like, I didn't read for it. So I hope they're cool with this interpretation of this character. Yeah, there have been somewhere that it doesn't, it's not organic and you got to make it work.

And then eventually you hope you do. And yeah, but there have been, there's been more than a few for sure. This has been awesome. I love, honestly, you're just this, I thought it would be. It's just, just so easy. I told him, I go, this is going to be like such a, I go, I wish I was this laid back or a peer to be laid back. But you're so honest and humble too. It's like you're telling your story and like, you know,

between your family. You are, Michael. As are you, Ryan. Here's the thing, dude. I mean, look, we get the privilege of being this incredible business. We get the privilege to tell stories for a living. I mean, that's an incorrect. And help people.

And you hope that if you can give somebody's respite from their day and so if they've had a bad day, you do. If you happen to inspire them in some way, fantastic. But we have to have perspective. We're not curing cancer here. Yeah. You know, I mean, not that those are, it's a binary choice, but I'm just saying, you know, you know, you have to have, you know, you have to have a binary choice. you know we're part of we're a cog in the wheel that tells a story and if you don't if you lose perspective of that oh good luck to you man amen on that uh what's your handle so people could

follow you oh on instagram i'm um at nestor carbonell and then on twitter uh at carbinell nestor at carbinell nestor from the people who you know on the back of this book that you're your uh your wife you guys are friends with these people and people just i mean people like working with you. They like you as a person. They like your wife. You're just genuine people. I think people want to work with other good people. They want life to be as easy as they can. Well, thank you. And I know people feel that way about you. And I appreciate that. I know they do. I've heard that from so many people. I know that to be true. Thank you, buddy. I think, you know, I think being grateful for what we get to do. I think it helps. You know, I think it helps in

terms of keeping perspective like we were talking about before you know and then and just staying grounded man i mean you know yeah you know and having your friends around you to keep you grounded no question we as you spoke to before that i would love to speak to all my lows because i've had plenty of them you know you you you kind of i feel like someone said it really was like i want to operate at a 7 out of 10 i don't want to get too high and i don't want to get too low if i'm at a 7 i can deal with the ups and down. It's a bit better. And I think it's finding that seven and not getting too worked up about those highs, too worked up about the lows and give you some sanity. Are your parents still with you? Yeah. Thankfully, yes. How old are they? So my dad just turned 87 on the fifth and then my mom

is 76. And they're in New York? They're in, yeah, in Connecticut. In Connecticut. You still talk to them a lot? Are they proud of you? They're sweet. Yes, they're very sweet. Yeah, I mean, you know, like my mom's like my agent, you know, my dad too. I love it. Super sweet, man. But I I wish, I wanted to get more into you as well and into the... Maybe next time. I would like, if I hope there is one. Maybe next time. I love you.

Hey, thank you. Thank you. That was awesome. Thank you, buddy. Thank you, Ryan. Thank you, Nestor. Although he, he, in the podcast, he says, Nestor. Nestor.

Nestor. Nestor, Nestor Carbonell. Nestor Carbonell. Dude, you guys got everything. He's got talent. He's got looks. He's a sweetheart. He was a great guest on the podcast.

married to an author Married to an author He's really done it buddy All right Top tier patrons You're gonna help me out with this Sure Let's do it

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So, well, I got, I got, give me a couple more. All right. Ray. Hadada. Tabitha. T. Tom. N.

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Michelle A. Jeremy C. Brandy D. Yvour. Joey M. Eugene and Leah. Corey. Jake Busey. Angela F. Mel S. Christine S. Eric A. Shane R. Andrew M. Tim L. Manda R. Jen B, Kevin E. Stephanie K. Jarrell, Jam and Jay, Leanne, J, Luna, Mike F, Stone, Henge, H. Brian L, Kendall L, Meredith I, Kerasi, Jessica V, Kyle F, Marisol P, Esteban, G, Kaley, J, Brian A, Ashley F, Marion Louise Liface. L. That's how I'll remember that. Marion Louise Dreyfus Lifin. Romeo B, Romeo's bleeding. Monica Q, Frank B, Gentine, Nikki L, April R, Cassie B, Derek,

and thank you guys for all your love and your support and Patreon.com slash inside of you. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I am Ryan Tayas. From the Hollywood Hills in California. All right. Give it a wave.

Thanks so much for listening today, guys. I hope you enjoyed the podcast. Be good to yourself. Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here.

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