Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - PAULA ABDUL: The Reality of American Idol, Lying Her Way to Laker Girl & Lots of Crazy Coincidences!

Episode Date: May 23, 2023

Paul Abdul (American Idol, Forever Your Girl) joins us for (quite possibly) our longest interview with story after story that will leave your jaw dropped. From changing her identity to become a Laker Girl, to being baby-sat by Michael Bolton, to choreographing the Jacksons, to surviving a plane crash, to having a psychic tell her about her future with American Idol years before it aired… Paula shares it all this week! Huge thank you for her openness, especially when it came to our shared experience with spinal injury (and surgeries) and how she never gave up after nearly 2 decades with excruciating pain. Too many good stories in this episode, hope you all enjoy. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🧼 Dove Men Plus Care __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Ryan, hi. Hi. How are you? Good. How are you? Good. Your hair is a little longer.

It is. It grows fast. It's been a month. Yeah. Yeah. Is it time for a haircut? It'll be time for a haircut at the beginning of June so that it grows out at a reasonable length for my sister's wedding.

Oh, congratulations. I don't want to have like a too short haircut. I want it to be like a. Do you think people are excited to hear about your hair right now? Yes. Especially if they're listening. Great episode. Before we start it, you're going to love this one.

I'm so glad. I was such a big fan of hers. Still I'm a big fan of hers after this interview. Paul Abdul, but before you fast forward, I just let you know that patreon.com slash talk inside of you. Patreon.com slash inside of you to support the podcast. I thank you all of patrons for really supporting this and keeping it going. I want to do it.

I'd love to do it forever. So if you wanted to continue and you're liking these interviews, support us if you can. And if you can't, at least listen and write a review. Follow us on our handles, Ryan. at inside of you pod on Twitter at inside of your podcast on Instagram and Facebook Yes that's right Inside of you online store

I still have a few of those Lex Luthor statues They just went on sale They're bronze their art pieces I sign them their number There's only nine I think there's like four left And if you want to get one But there's a lot of other cool stuff

Autograph Lexmas scripts And talk or inside of you mugs And tons of stuff So get there inside of you online store And also I'm going to be in tidewater and then i'm in virginia beach for a con i'm going to be in uh niagara falls coming up i'm going to be in philly um so get out there to see me damn it welling and i will be in philly to do a uh a smallville nights in a con do you drink some water yeah have a philly cheesecake

oh yeah what am i doing that accent i don't know i don't know uh paula abdual what can i say about her i mean i just love rush rush want to hear you breathe with me i have so many songs that I just love that she did and um she has so many great stories that I had no idea. Her Laker story is unreal. Um, I think we should just get into it. Um, all my love to you guys. Let's just let's just rock into this. No too much talking. Let's get inside of Paula freaking Abdul. It's my point of you. You're listening to inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Ryan, before you got here, I was doing my research, you know, my quick kind of like scan of the earth for my guests, see, you know, what they've done.

And obviously, we know some of what you've done. But it's like endless the amount of shit you've done. I mean, don't you ever get tired? Yeah, I do. But I figure I'll sleep a whole bunch later on when I go. Do you sleep well? That's a really, I have not slept at all. Like last night I was up all night, like bad insomnia.

I go through bouts of insomnia like every six weeks or so. And it usually lasts like two to three days. And I'm a zombie. So I was like one of all days I'm coming here for my first podcast. You don't look like a zombie. You're the most beautiful zombie I've ever seen. Oh, you're so kind. That should be a movie, beautiful zombie.

Has it already been done? Probably. Apocalypse zombie. I'm sure that's been done. She's just going to keep going. Bloaded, bloated zombie? Yes, I think that's been done. I think that's my brother.

Blooded zombie. Hey, Fatso. He looked a little bloated the other day. Hey, Patty. We were in Vegas. Oh, yeah, I said that. We were talking about, that's an inside joke. That's just like, you know, did you, be honest about this?

Did you always have, like, aspirations of being, like, a rock. and this amazing dancer choreographer. Did you even dream about that as a kid? Or was it something that just kind of kept happening? This is crazy because let me back it up. I was born three months premature. I weighed 2.8 pounds. I had terrible hip dysplasia. And in dance, you have to have turned out hips. But I had braces on my legs, completely inverted. Like old school braces. I was born with a broken windpipe. So almost the first three full years of my life, I was the first fainting goat. Like, I was fainted all the time.

If I wake up when baby cries, they make the face, and it's an inhale, and I couldn't even hold that. So I would pass out. What? Yeah. And I have a sister who's seven years older than I am. Her name's Wendy. I love her to death.

But because I was the freak of nature that came along, ruined her life because she's seven and a half, and now this little peanut that everyone's afraid to touch. And she can't play with me. But what was cool is that she would escape the dinner table and go into my room and provoke me to wake up because she was adamant that, damn it, I'm going to play with my baby sister. But what she did, which was interesting, and the doctor said, like, she just taught you like a life coping mechanism. As soon as she provoked me to wake up, and I'd make that face, she'd go tickle me. And she'd go, bleh, and she tickled me. And I'd like, you remember this?

This is, no, this is what I was told. This is what you're told us. Gosh. And laughing is an exhale. We're crying's an inhale. Ha ha ha ha. It is. Isn't that crazy?

Well, you can if you do the, that kind of laugh, you know? Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't do the snorts. But sometimes I do it. Do you snort or you snort? Sometimes it just kind of leaks out of a laugh and it's embarrassing. It catches me by surprise. But I learn to laugh all the time. So when I get.

punished, I'd laugh. That's not good. But seriously, look, I was four years old. I do remember, I do remember glimpses of this. And my family sat down to watch an MGM musical called Singing in the Ring. Oh, yeah. And I remember seeing, because it's something that ignited in, like that spark ignited and changed my life. At four years old, I remember walking up to the TV set and pointing the TV set, like, that's my dad to Gene Kelly. And my dad behind on the couch said, no, I'm your father. That could be your TV dad. And at that point, my family said that I said, I'm going to do that.

I'm going to be that. At four years old, I knew what my life's calling was. And I never looked back. I like, I knew like a child believes in Santa Claus that that's why I was going to do. So you had everything going against you. But you're like, you're four years old and you look at the TV and it's singing the rain. You're like, oh, this is me as a little kid. At four years old, Ryan, what are you doing?

I'm going, you know, my dad's, you know, looking at me like, what the, what's wrong with you? That's what I always, I was, what's wrong with me? I always was wondering as a kid, what is wrong with me? Why do they keep asking me that? What the hell's wrong with you? What's wrong with you? Why are you doing that? I don't know.

And so I felt like finally acting was sort of a home where I could kind of be anything I wanted to be and be provocative and get away with it. I'm an actor. I could do whatever the hell I want, sort of. But you sort of know. So take me through it. Were you starting, like, always dancing in the house and playing around and... Well, okay.

So were your parents cool? Did you have good parents? Okay. So let me tell you. Great parents. Both completely, like, served a major purpose in my life. My mom was tough love. My mother was one of the most celebrated pianists.

And she learned to play by key. And she was celebrated in the, she's Canadian in the Philharmonics on radio shows. and the first thing she said to my sister and I, you can play any instrument, but you're not playing the piano because she didn't want to have the headache of hearing. My mom is born with perfect pitch, and the best thing, just smash her to, when my mom would come to American Idol,

I could see her peripherally. And if I heard one of the contestants go sharp or flat, I would look at my mom, and this is, my mom would go like this. Her eye would twitch. So my mom was very particular that you're not playing the piano. So my sister took up guitar, and I decided I'm going to play the tuba. You played the tuba? No, that was a disaster.

Then I went to upright bass. You're so small. Upright bass. I just leaned it against the wall. Okay, good. But then I fell in love with the flute. And in orchestra and band, I'd be fainting all the time. And the rest of the class would be counting, like wagering bets of, okay, how long is she going to be out for it?

From just playing the flute? You lose your breath and you pass out. Dancing, pass out. I'm telling you crazy. Like constantly pass out. Yeah, it's, um, it was, it was really weird. You are that fainting goat. I was the first fainting goat.

Is that what it is or a sheep? It's a goat. It's a goat. It's a goat. Thanks. You're like, it's a goat, sweetie. But, but the craziest thing is this shows the tenacity of, of a fighter because I bought it from birth.

I became first chair floutist all throughout. or high in high school. And I was determined, like, you know, certain things I couldn't do in PE class because I couldn't run. But I learned to create my own style of dance because because of my body and having hip dysplasia, I never was born with the extension and the flexibility as dancers. But I had a keen mind that would dream like full-blown production numbers in my sleep. and like in Polaroid pictures, you know, or I say Polaroid pictures.

Polaroid. You get that, Ryan? My mom was tough love. She worked for the studios. So she worked for the president of United Artists and Warner Brothers. So she saw a gazillion young girls, ingenues, all these people want to make it and the hardship of it. And my family, they're doctors and lawyers. And it's like, you're going to go to school to be that.

And I would say, okay, but not really. And my dad was the other one who said, as a little girl, God damn it, you're an abdool. You can do anything you goddamn want to do. And I thought, God damn, it's like the coolest thing. I was good. And then... God damn, you're an abdol.

So here's the perfect visual of my mom and my dad. I'm in first grade, and I'm starring in the spring musical called Jill in the box. And I'm messing up. And I look out into the audience, and I see my mom like this. Oh, God. And this is my dad. gets up. He's going, excuse me. And he's passing by people. Excuse me. And I'm watching my dad. And now he's walking towards the stage. And now he's on the side of the wings. And he's going,

Ketabler. And I'm like shuffling off the buffalo to my dad. On the stage while you're performing, you go over to your father. And he goes, God damn it. Go out there and show him who you are. You're a goddamn apt wall. And I went, okay, okay. My dad was my cheerleader. My mom was just wanting to make sure that her daughter, doesn't get overwhelmed with rejection from trying to make it in the business. And my dad always said, God damn it, you can do whatever you want. But he did tell me at nine years old, because I'd say, Dad, I'm going to make it one day. I don't know how, but somehow I'm going to make it. And he said, honey, I think we need to talk. You're not going to be the obvious choice in the

nicest way. He's trying to tell me, you're never going to fit the mold. And I'm listening to him intently. He goes, you're going to get rejected, which means you're going to feel bad but that's okay it doesn't matter just remember this no is the beginning of a negotiation oh my god at eight and a half turning nine and i carried it with me for the rest of my life jesus were you but i have to tell you one of can i just tell you the crazy aspect of where i grew up yeah north hollywood and i was in a three three condominium compound right where the old van eyes in victory driving was cold water. And this is crazy. We lived in the middle condominium. Our condominium was separated by a pool. And my sister's high school boyfriend, I was seven. My sister was at

Grant High School. And her boyfriend was this genius savant drummer, like incredible. His older brother or cousin, I don't, someone how related to him was the band leader. So there's a little nepotism going on. But they're like my sister, white Jewish kid named Mark Sanders. Great guy. And one day, he gets a phone call from the band leader saying, my old college roommate, don't know if you remember him, he's now the MD of the Jackson's. They're opening up at the MGM Grand. The MD? What's MD?

Musical director. Oh, okay. Sorry about that. Yeah, well, I should know that probably, shouldn't I? Anyway. Well, you know what an AD is. I know what an M-C was. I wonder she met M-C.

No, the musical director. Right, right. Not a doctor either. No, not a doctor. Wasn't a doctor. A doctor of music. Talking well. But Mark said, well, I'm white and I'm Jewish.

And they go, yeah, we're well aware of it. And they're fine with that. And my mother loaded up the station wagon. He learned the entire set for the Jackson's. They were opening up at the MGM Grand. We drove in the station wagon. My very first concert at seven years old was the Jackson's. Ten years later, I'm a Laker girl and I'm choreographing.

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Rocket Money. Do you know everybody? Oh, it's almost like, it's really like one of those, it's like the Jack Nicholson stories and like, but the Paula Abdul is all, it's, it's wedged in history as like that almost like folklore. That thing was like she was a Laker girl. Paul Abdul was a Laker girl. And that's what started a career and all these things. And I, whenever I go to the game, I always laugh. I go, I want to be the guy who announces the Laker girls. This is all he does. Literally goes, Laker girl. Yes. That's all he does. It's the famous Lawrence Tanner. Is that his name? Laker Girls. You know how I became a Lake Girl? You're hot and you could dance.

Hardly. Well, I could dance. This was a fun story. Again, not the obvious choice. I used to teach dance in cheerleading camps. One's a teenager. And some of the girls that were on staff with me, 17 years old, these beautiful 5'7 foot seven, you know, about the figure for days, blonde hair, blue eyes.

They come and they go, hey, Polly, do you want to try out to be a Laker girl with us? And I'd look up with them. I go, no. They go, why not? Because I don't look like you. I don't fit the mold. But you're so good, Paula. Come on.

What do you have to lose? And that was a challenge to me. Nothing, I suppose. And four girls picked me up. We carpooled all the way to the... None of them got it. You got it. Well, no.

But you had to be 18, 17 and a half, okay? So I remember when we got down there, I bought a dance bag with me, and I noticed the other girls didn't. They just had their leotards, and we were walking in, and we were in the 700s. They were close to 2,000 girls, and they'd line up 100 at a time at the form. And I was 742, and the other four girls were relatively around that number with me. and I remember on my toes and I'm hitting my hips and they go okay if we call your number please step forward and numbers are being called and then two of my friends like one after another got called and I'm like yeah like that and then my numbers called and the other two girls

weren't called and I'm just going oh my god and I'm on my tiptoes they go state your name I go Paula Abdull. Spell it, A-B-D-U-L. Like Kareem Abdul-Jabbar? Sure, whatever. They go, how tall are you? I go, five-foot-two. I'm five-but-nothing. So, lie, lie, lie. But this is the coolest part. I think we're going to be able to dance and move forward and the rest are going to be cut. You hear the voice from God going, all right, ladies, we have to thin the herd. If we called your number, thank you for coming down. Come back next season and try out. Wait, you were the guys, the girls that weren't? Warrant.

Didn't even get to dance, okay? I am like going, I can't believe. I didn't even get to dance. Aren't you guys pissed? Now, three of us were cut, two girls. So the two girls I thought were being cut, they're left. And I just go, I'll be right back. I went into the bathroom because I had a plan.

You didn't change your outfit. I certainly did. I put on a different leotard. I got a different number. I had my hair down. So now, well, I'm going to put it in point tell. And I entered as my middle name, Julie. You cheater.

And I spelled my last name, A-B-B-A-L. Funniest thing is, there was a guy that actually saw me do this. And I'm going, how in the hell can one person hone in looking at me and laughing? And I went out of the bathroom, and the two girls that were cut with me, they're like, you can't do it. And I went by, and I ran out onto the forum floor right up to my two friends are there, and they're all, they're negotiating. You can't do that, Paula. This is against the rules. I go, my dad taught me if it's not written in the rules, there are no rules.

Yeah, and you're already cut. What could you lose? Right. So I entered as my mail name, Julie Abel, new number, put my hair in a ponytail. I got to dance, and all three of us got cut. So now all five of us are done, gonzo. And all that they're pissed off is that the two girls that originally got cut are mad at me. Now the other two girls, they're mad at me, and I'm going, aren't you mad that we got cut?

And I said, guys, please, can you just wait one more round? I still have one more outfit. No, come on. I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. Did you know this? She changed into another effing addict. Oh, but I saved the best for last.

What did you put on? Well, first of all, I said, can you wait? And they said, hell no, you can take a taxi or a bus. And then I went, really, like a really. And I went, okay. I went back into the stall. This time I saved the best for last night. The old Jane Fonda red and white chevron striped leotard.

Ooh, I want to see pictures. leg warmers. No, I don't. You were 17. I don't want to see pictures. Yeah. Wristbands. And now I had a headband like Olivia Newton, John. And I'm like, okay, dear God, please, I got to get this. I've got to become a Laker girl. I got to prove to my dad, like as if this is going to make my career. Little did I know. I ran out there. And as I was running out of the bathroom, oh, I entered my first initial P, my middle initial J, spelled my last name, Apple, A-P-P-L-E. Paula, Julie, Apple. And what am I going to do with my hair?

I've worn it down. I've put it in a ponytail. I'm going to put half up and half down with a hair scrunchy. I started the worst hair craze ever, the half-up, half-down palm tree on the head. It all started as me trying to figure out how I could look different to be a lady girl, got a different number. As I ran out of the bathroom, I heard back half of the arena come forward. and the front half go back. And it was perfect.

I just ran to the front and the middle. This guy is still laughing at me, a young guy who ended up being an intern from UCLA who got the job of being in charge of the Laker girls. His name was Lonn Rosen. I know Lonn. Lon Rosen was my first boss. I swear to God. I know Lon. He started an intern.

He's a good guy to know. He got me Dodger tickets. Yes, because he's been in the business a long. time. As her intern, then stuck with Magic, became his agent, his manager, and has everything to do with the Dodgers. And it's just crazy. So I got to dance. And then I heard front half of the arena go back and back half go front. And at that moment, I'm pivoting. I'm going, they're going to forget about me. God damn, they're going to forget about me. And I said, I promise to God, I'd be bold and daring. And I literally turned around. And I ran. And I ran. back squirmed my way to the front and center and lawn was laughing and uh that's how i made it i got the third attempt you i mean and i became the leg tenacity but guts risk taking what here's a difference you notice this because i like to get in mental health and stuff like that on this podcast because a lot of people go through it and a lot of people really respond and we face adversity we face it the stigma's

going away with mental health. And I like that finally. But we have a long way to go. But I look at you as like this young teenage girl who's just going for it and has just no fear, very little fear. And let me ask you, why is it that when we get older, it creeps up on us? Like all this confidence and all these things that we exude like that make us who we are, then start peeling us or breaking us down. It's the most difficult thing to sustain because when we start, we don't care how we do it. We are just going to figure out how to become. So you have reckless abandon and you have that I have nothing to lose. And so you don't.

Then when you start becoming famous and recognized, you start having things to lose. And then it chips away at that reckless abandon and that what do I have to lose mentality. It's the hardest thing to come back, but you have to find a balance in that. Can you come back from it? Yes. Can you really come back from it and be stronger even than you were? Well, that's called having the ebbs and flows in your career and creating renaissance of reinvention all the time. And I've been that girl, you know.

You certainly have. And I've gone through tremendous adversity. And, you know, when I stayed, I was made the headlaker girl and choreographer right away because the girl who was in charge named Lori Ryan fell in love with another basketball player and got traded. And I think that was the story. And she was moving. So, I took over and I was, of course, I was like the little short one right in the point.

I'm probably nervous. Like, oh, my gosh, this is a big, you know. You know what? I knew that I always knew that I had a gift of creation and forming something. Like, okay, so my condominium, not only did Mark Sanders, my sister's boyfriend, go on to be famous musician and the Jacksons and all that. Two doors down were these two brothers named the Piccaro brothers. What?

You didn't know. I'm good buddies with Steve. I hate name dropping. Is this great? Steve was on a podcast, but, look. Look, Piccaro brothers were just genius. I mean, they started that band when they were in high school. And then there were four college roommates in the first condominium that ended up becoming members of the Tower Power Horn section.

So this is all in my North Hollywood. I'm a little girl who would get, I would get the musicians and go into the playground at the back of the three condominiums. And I'd direct and produce the spring musicals and the Christmas plays. And I had a knack for putting. things together, organizing, and seeing a full picture. That was your gift. You knew you had a gift for that. Yeah. For seeing things and creating things and movement and all these things. There's one person that I left out that was very influential. Well, how do I say influential? I couldn't stand him. He was my babysitter. I was seven years old. My sister and her best friend, Maureen, worked at this

in the mall, the store called Contempo Couches. By the way, drink some water. You haven't stopped talking. bad you're talking so much are you am i if and if i'm if i'm if i'm overwhelming or boring just no this is awesome i just was like i feel bad because i keep like throwing this stuff out you you just want to open up about it i love it the babysitter the babysitter so my sister's best friend maurine they they worked at a place called contempto casuals which was a clothing store very hip back in the laurel canyon mall okay the laurel plaza or whatever um so when they when they were working, my mom would have to get a babysitter. But see, my sister's best friend, Maureen, had a boyfriend who was an aspiring singer-songwriter

from Westport, Connecticut. And in the summers, he'd come out and he'd spend half the time with Maureen and her family, his girlfriend's family. And the other half, he would also stay with my sister and hang out. They were best friends. And I used to hate when he babysit me because he's an aspiring singer-songwriter. He would always go, I'm just going to be a person. outside. I know he's going to be with the parcaro, but he's going to be with the musicians.

And he pays no attention to me. And I remember that was so angry at him at seven years old. I'm in my brownie uniform and doing my homework on an L-shaped couch. And he goes to leave. And I ran on my knees to lock him out. But my pencil from doing my homework, it was stuck up in between the cushions, went into my knee. And this aspiring singer-songwriter who, had his driver's permit. I had to get stitches in my knee. His name was Michael Bolotin, who became Michael Bolton. I can't make this shit up. I can't make this shit up. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses as so many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your

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singer. How can I? Sorry. Yes. Damn. But remember, he used to babysit me and sing me lullabies to Beatles songs. Probably kept you up with that voice. And he'd sing and use farm animals for twist and shout. He'd do twist and moo. Are you still friends with him?

Okay, so all these years go by. You dated him. Oh, God, no. Okay, all right. Well, I mean, you know, once you're all. That's the funny part because I can't make this shit up. No. I'm driving.

And straight up is now number one single. We are driving. My sister are getting our nails done on sunset at Jessica Nail Salon. We are passing right at light before Tower Records. My sister goes, oh, my God. The whole side of the wall is my album. I'd never see anything like that. The whole, like, big, the whole, forever your girl album.

Oh, my God, what an hour. And at the red light next to me, you hear straight up being blasted, and these girls are like lip singing and scream. And then they see me, and they see me and scream. I go, ah! And my sister's one, this is so weird. Because I was Wendy Abdul's little sister all the time. It was just a weird transition when this happened because now,

it's so crazy. We pass the line. and we're laughing because it's such just bizarre. Still, I'm trying to get used to the fact that my song's on the radio. And she flips the station and it's a ballad. My sister goes, do you remember Bolotin? I go, yeah. She goes, just kind of sounds like him.

Very distinct voice, right? They back announced, and that was Michael Bolton from the Hunger album. My sister turns the car around, pulls into Tower Records. go right in, straight to Michael Bolton. And there's his bin, and he has the same damn mullet hairdo that he had. It's him. At the same exact time with my little flip phone, I get a call from one of my good friends, Julie, who became the first ever dance agent.

She goes, what are you doing? I go, Wendy and I are getting our nails done. I go, why don't you meet us? She goes, I'll see if I can get an appointment. She goes, I have something weird to tell you. I just got a call from a manager named Mr. Levin, Lewis Levin, and he has a client. And the first thing he says, you need to, can you please find out if she's the brat that he used to babysit? I go, huh?

She goes, a guy named Michael. I go, I'm standing in front of his bin. I go, Julie, I'm putting on speaker. Wendy, come over here. Come over here. What? Yeah. And I go, say what you just said, Julie, a guy, a manager who has an artist, his name

as Michael Bolton. And I go, Julie, I'm standing in front of his bin. I go, tell him I'm not the brat. She goes, wait a minute. He babysat you? I go, get the guy. I'm not kidding. My sister at night, I said, I'll meet at the sunset marquee once me at 4 p.m.

My sister and I hadn't seen him since I was seven, since she was 17, 18 years old. And you went and had lunch. No, we went to the sunset marquee at. 4 p.m. He came out of the elevator. He sees my sister and I, drops to his knees. And we ended up staying and talking until 4 in the morning. And it ended up being, wait a minute. He was like, you little shit. My whole career. I am just now having a hit with adult contemporaries. And your album has to be out. And he goes, you little shit. And I go, sorry. And I go, what do you? I go, what is, but you want me to choreograph you? Like, he goes, well, yeah. I go, my sister goes, you have no rhythm. My vibe can recall correctly. And I just started laughing.

And he goes, you like give me something. And then he goes, and by the way, I'm nominated at the American Music Awards. Will you be my date? He's nominated for Best New Male Artist. And I go, ew, my sister's laughing. And then it was just, come on, do it. What are the odds of this? I'm his date for the American Music Awards.

What does Dick Clark give me as a category? Best New Male Artist. I was laughing and went, Michael Bolton, I announced his win. It's first, his first American score. This universe is small, as vast as it appears to be, it's amazing how. It's like Celestine prophecy shit. It is. It's weird kind of this energy that would create and it's.

But this is a question. This didn't happen when I was a kid. I grew up somewhere where the guy behind me was car. an aluminum shredder and died another guy went to prison another guy uh went to prison for you know killing somebody uh there was uh there was no a lot of very no creativity where i grew up in indiana the fact that i got out and there was like i can't go and then who do i bump into the guy who murdered the guy in high school yeah and then they his parole officer asked me to come over Anyway, you and I share something that you could elaborate on, but I have, since I was 18,

I've had a lot of surgeries. I've had a lot of chronic pain. I've dealt with chronic pain my entire life. I've had eight? No one. No one understands it. No one understands it. Unless they've gone through it.

No one gets it. Like I said, six lower back surgeries, fusion, fusion in my neck, you know, sports and that. And I still functioned and I try not to talk about it. I don't like to, you know, bother people about it. I've had my times where I've just thought of giving up in terms of like, you know, I don't, the pain's been at certain points in my life. I've tried everything. I might try the stem cell thing.

I've been, you know, I've been stuck on pills for a while. And then I get through that somehow. And then ultimately I figure out that doesn't work. It's just numbing the pain and masking it. Once it goes in acute pain, no one, like, I was, I've never been contrary to what people believe and how they made me to look on American Idol without letting me know the red lights on. And me, I'm a goofy girl. I'm, needless sake, I haven't even gotten into American Idol.

But pain is daunting and it's isolating. And you may not, like, look how awful you feel and the quality of your life becomes something. that is so abnormal and your pain tolerance, it's just horrible. And I, you know, I've gone through 15 cervical spinal surgeries. 15. Yes. Now, I want to get this out here because people go, she, there's no record of her ever getting in a crash landing.

And I was on tour, my first world tour, big tour, the biggest tour, touring act. and I was at the height, height, height of outselling a lot of artists, and I was leaving from St. Louis going to Denver in a seven-seater jet, private jet, and 30 minutes, 35 minutes into the air. I had just gone to the bathroom and climbed over luggage to get back to my seat, never got to my seat. One of the engines blew up in the right wing caught on fire, and we plummeted. and I hit the top of my head on the plane and I was knocked out. People say she's making this up. You know what?

These young reporters don't realize. While I was on tour, there was no computer. There were no paparazzi. It was tabloid reporting. And after watching the horrific spinal cord injuries that Gloria Stefan went through. The car crash. For me, I did my whole career by myself. I didn't have anyone I could go to and say, what was it like for you?

Because I started at 17 working with the most genius, egomaniacal, like, egomaniacal, genius. I helped win Academy Awards for these directors and producers, Tony Awards, Emmys. I worked with the cream of the crop from the time I was 17 years old. And all of a sudden, now I'm in this crazy accident when I came to the plane was in flames. And there were six other people on the plane that experienced this too. There's no reason I would make this up and have to lose my career at the biggest catalog selling art. I don't think you were lying about this. Because it's because it's not documented in the private plane.

And because I was able to have people sign NDAs, I didn't want anyone to know that I might perhaps be damaged goods. I worked really hard to get the career that I have. Did you go right to the hospital? I was, I woke up in the hospital. I was, God bless, Merv Griffin's crew saw that a private plane went down that it was mine and they rescued us and in a cornfield. And I just, I remember coming to and like my tour. manager was a guy named Marty Haum and I had this incredible manager Bob Taballo who was managing Prince at the time and and you know wait a minute you know the first thing that I think of Ryan I know

people are thinking about it because I'm a little morbid at times but I I want to know what you're thinking when you're looking what you remember as you're going down your heart rate your your mind the thoughts that go through your mind because most people don't survive a plane crash at least as far I know. And I was the only one that didn't have a seatbelt. So what were you thinking right before you remember waking up? I don't remember anything. That's the thing. Do you remember anything in the plane?

I remember climbing over. I remember seeing an illumination of light. And I saw my hair makeup artist who was, I had my hair makeup artist, my tour manager, my tour accountant. I'm missing some people here. I remember seeing my hair. makeup guy Daniel, a light just illuminate his face. And I saw fear of God. And I must have got hit with my head and I was knocked out. You were surprised you lived. Well, not when I came, I came

to and we were all holding hands. I'm going, wait, it's not our turn to go. This is crazy. And we, the co-pilot was able to crash land us. Did anybody die? Nobody died. Some people had stitches from a, from gash over forehead, gash on the knee. But I was the only one that got spinal cord injury. And the thing, you want to hear a crazy thing? I was, I had already started a lot of my tour. I had a really incredible agent. He wasn't even my agent at CAA, a guy named Kevin Hubein, who just believed in me. And this was after the tremendous success of bodyguard. He said, I just, watching Paul in her video, she's an actress. I want to gun for her.

I was a client at CAA, and I just had a music agent, you know, Rob Light and at CAA, but Kevin Hovein kind of championed me and got me in to read for a film, and it was the late Howard Viewer, who was the casting director, and I was told that Academy Award winning Australian director Stephen Frears is directing, and I'm going to give you the punch, line at the end, but I started coming in, and they would fly me on the northern part of my tour of school in San Jose. They'd fly me back in at Paramount, and I would be reading with Stephen Frears, with Howard Fuhr, and I'd see different actresses from Patricia Arquette and Winona, like a lot of people, and I keep getting flown back to, now I'm screen testing, and I keep getting

called back. And now it was down to two people, another actress and me. Who was the actress do you remember? Rosie Perez. Rosie Perez. So now here's what happened. I screen tested with Jeff Bridges. I kept getting called back. It was just the weirdest thing. So now it was down to the two of us. And Paramount, I hadn't done anything. So they were skeptical. And they sent Howard fine at the time with late acting coach and a woman named Janet Alhonti who had contracts with Paramount and wanted to know what their opinion was because they got the they got the nod from you know from Howard from from Stephen but I understood I didn't I have nothing that I've proven myself with so guess what I'm I have a day off in Denver so I'm flying

from St. Louis after my concert to Denver half hour in I get in the plane crash landing wake up in the hospital all I wake up to I said get me out of the hospital I have to get to the hotel room because they were flying Howard and Janet O'Honty the two acting coaches who paramount and it was from the movie fearless Jeff Bridges the plane crash movie and I'm going method acting method acting this is my role this is my role oh my God but Rosie Perez no plus the fact that with I had a cartoon lump on my head. Like, seriously, a cartoon lump. That big. And, um, but I was like delirious thinking, this is it because I kept screen testing it. And thanks to Kevin Hubein, that was like, but

that's crazy. So I can't make these stories. Let me ask you this, though. Um, was there a time where you just were kind of like, hey, I needed, I need like, I was hooked on pills for a while because of my back were there are times when you were, I had to go withdrawal and shit. Well, here's the thing. Because I was the perfect pain management. patient at Cedar Sinai. I had never gone through anything serious like this, but like I went paralyzed my whole left, the whole right side of my body and even like, even partial like temporary facial paralysis.

I was now damaged goods and I got dropped from, I was biggest catalog selling artists. I ended up having to be dropped by my record label. I remember I was dropped by my agency and I learned how horrible this business can be when you don't mean anything and you can't deliver. If you don't have something to give people, they don't need you anymore. They don't need you. And it's all, yeah, it's all very superficial. You have to be tough to whether this business, you know, people mistake that my kindness is weakness and my kindness to me is king because, you know, it's easy to be someone like the guy. the British guy who I sat next to you and left me, but it's, yeah, that's another, it's

really, it's really, it takes love, it takes patience, it takes stick to witness and, and the belief in talent to, to be able to weather shit like that. And, and so now when you go into acute pain, as you have experienced, you are now naturally addicted to whatever pain, pain medicine they're giving you. So I had never been on drugs to, but I had nerve damage and structural damage. In order for your nerves to grow back, it's like watching paint dry or grass grow. It's not an easy thing. And I went through traveling the world, and there was a brand new thing called stem cell research back then.

And I tried to get into trials all over the world. I went to Dusseldorf. I went to China. I was in Japan. I went to Thailand. I was in Canada. You've done it all. I kept getting cut from the front.

And each neurosurgeon said, I've got, I have these plates that are going to be perfect for you. It never worked. Never works. I get fusili, like, scar tissue that would wrap around like a fusiline noodle around my spinal cord. It was one failed surgery after another. Rosotomy's nerve, nerve burning, nerve blocks, nerve blocks. Stellic gangland blocks. Right.

You've had it all. So a lot. Yeah. So, and here I am in like 92 pounds taking, taking drugs, having to be on fentanyl patches. The pain was on a scale of zero to 10, 10 being natural childbirth. My normal way of living for almost 17 years was seven and a half. And yet I never gave up. always knew that the most powerful muscle in your body is your brain. If I could divert my brain

away from the energy of focusing on pain, maybe you could kill yourself. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horror. one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the wicked. And reveal the grim.

We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. You know, I disappeared for seven years, a little like seven years, three months, three and a half months. You know, that's a long time to be away from the business. However, I had the biggest catalog. So I was the biggest catalog selling artists at the time. with my debut album. So, but seven and a half years, you know, people go away and stuff.

And I showed, showed up on a brand new show called American Idol. And it was like you were, it was like yesterday they saw you. Here we are. Oh, yeah, Paul. And it became. Well, no, it was, it was touted as going to be the most velvita cheesy show that's going to ruin the music industry. I couldn't stop watching that show. I couldn't stop watching it for years.

He became like the death star, like to every other network. If network dropped 50% in all their ratings, we still were like 100%. You know, it's funny because when I was doing Smallville, I remember them saying, oh, well, all our other shows, there were kind of tanking. So this is helping us break even. I'm like, what? It was just weird. It's American Idol's that show. You know, the only thing I think about is I remember, like, people remember how nasty Simon could be, of course, how sweet and lovable you are and how laid back and cool Randy was.

I just don't like Morgan Freeman. by like Morgan Freeman. Oh, but you. I remember the first day I met Andy to frame. That's good. You're good. But no.

So when I look back, I remember going, why? He's so mean. Like, I know he stuck up for you a lot too. What? Did he not?

What are you smoking? I thought I read somewhere where like when, I don't know, like he stuck up with you about the whole thing with the guy, one of the contestants,

and he had your back. So he didn't have your back. Oh, my. I'm wrong. I'm wrong. I guess you're watching a different version. So you didn't get along with him. Oh, it was like brother's sister kind of like when you say brother sister are you the sugar coating it because it was like half brother half sister. I don't

really know you. I can't stand you. Half Satan. Yeah. It was it was probably the most difficult job challenging job that I ever had in my career. Every day when you were on your way to work were you having anxiety and stress because you had to deal with that. I'll tell you. I started the first season, the first month, going to therapy once a week. When it was going eight times a week, there was something wrong. This, I'm telling you, I, you never, ever read about me being a partier, because I'm not. I've been working professionally since I'm 17 years old. Right. In real heavy situations with James L. Brooks, Oliver Stone, you know. Rob Reiner. Well, no, who directed Big?

I didn't. That's, I knew he'd say it. There was a big mistake with that. They lied? It's not, I didn't choreograph big. What ended up happening is I did a Diet Coke commercial with Elton and I danced on a piano. Yeah, that's right. And then it was at that, then, then. That's what they think of it as. And so Big ended up saying, oh, well, there's a, you know, that must be a great scene.

So I, it wasn't me. It was just because it. Is the doors real? I did choreograph the doors and Oliver Stone is a. historian. It was a different kind of choreography that I said, do I really have to do this? But I turned Val Kilmer into Jim Morrison. And because Oliver Stone is such a stickler for history, he gave me boatloads of tapes of watching the doors and watching Jim Morrison be drugged out of his mind, body surfing, tipping over. I had to recreate every nuance of how Jim Morrison stumbled.

performed. One of the toughest jobs because Val Kilmer also was just a natural genius. Was he tough to work with? It was not the most pleasant job for me because I'm dealing with an amazing actor who actually can sing. I know. I know that whole story. He sent tapes to Oliver Stone. Oliver Stone didn't know who was listening to and it was actually Val Kimmer singing the door songs. Oliver Stone was like it was in between actors and it was you work with these actors. Tell me what I mean, I'm 17 and a half, 18, 19 years old when I'm working with all these James L. Brooks and all these people being given tremendous responsibility and me and me and all the while I remained as the Laker Girl and choreographer because I was afraid I'd lose my day job.

So I became the biggest choreographer, choreographing the door. And coming to America. A lot of people don't know that I choreographed, the big African wedding scene and coming to America to this day. Was that big money when they asked you to choreograph stuff like that? I thought, did I just die and go to heaven? I cannot believe I'm making this kind of money. That kind of money for doing these big movies. Well, you get paid, she gets paid by, you probably worked for weeks on something.

Yeah, because I was given the response. First of all, I was called in by John Landis to, well, let me get back to Oliver Stone. We're going to get back to Simon Cowell just in a second, too. Go ahead. This is a problem with my life story. It's, you're coming back. There's too much to talk about. It's too much to talk about. I haven't even gotten.

I know. But like, and the fact that my roommates, after I had, I lived with four Laker girls, I got them all their sad cards and after. And I said, I have to hire other dancers. And they would, I'd have the old-fashioned machine and you have the, you know, checking your messages. And I'd get to the two-bedroom apartment and my liquor girl roommates are going, okay, George Michael's manager call, you need to be at Sony. Come on. I choreograph the Faith Tour.

What? Yes. And then Prince wants to meet with you. You're going to have to go to Sony. And you've got rehearsals with, you got to Tracy Allman show. That was a brand new show. You want an Emmy for that. Two Emmys from that.

Shut up. Sorry. I'm a little shit with... You are. I mean, I just... God, there's so much I want to talk to you about. So as someone who's interviewing you and talking with you... And Whoopi Goldberg was my roommate.

I just have thrown the eye in there. From four Laker girls to... How old were you when she was your roommate? I was 22 at the time. Did she like you? I love Whoopi. Did she like me? Yeah, she loved me. She hated my pug because a pug would jump in the pool.

Jesus. All right. Let me just ask you. You jumped away. It was my fault probably. Sorry, listeners. But listen, when you were talking about Simon, you said you got up to maybe going to therapy like eight times a day. I'm joking, but you're joking.

But, but like, you know, it was. I never experienced anything like that. What was it? Was it just when you saw him, you get anxiety? Were you intimidated by him? Because I think I'd be maybe intimidated by him. You know, I have crazy stories, and they're long and crazy, and I tried not, but, but if I don't tell you how I got American Idol, which is the craziest story of forget Laker Girl. That's like a pimple on an elephant's behind compared to how I got.

Are you going, are you, uh, I'm trying, yeah, I'm, listen, you got to steer me here because I'm just too much my life story. But I'm saying about Simon, are you done talking about that? No, I'm not done talking about that. because it's how I got the job. So. Ryan, we're going to go a little over in this one. Great.

It's too interesting. You know, I'll, I'll, no, I just love it. Okay. I could talk to you forever.

I didn't realize how I just always, when I met you, how I pictured you was just very, you know, you're not loud. I'm saying, I can't think of a better word than sort of reserved. And,

And very, and you are and very classy and all these things. But when you get going, you're like a kid and you, and you tell these stories. And like, I just don't want these stories to stop. But it's awesome. So go ahead. What do you want to talk about? It's crazy. It's crazy.

Tell me a short story, how you became, got American Idol. I'm going to tell you the shortest way possible. Go ahead. So I am literally in crying pain, quality of life sucks in and out of surgery after surgery. Blowing money, money from all these surgeries and all this shit. Horrific quality of life, trying to divert my energy away from pain. All of a sudden, I mean, one of the, I think I was in Canada when I got phone call because I, oh, I forgot to tell you, on my 12th surgery, a neurosurgeon cut me the wrong way, and I got this, it's called RSD, which is horrific. It's on the scale of natural childbirth, and it's horrible.

Your body can't even, it's spinal cord injury. Your body can't handle the amount of pain. You break out in lesions, like horrible shingles, open stores. And then whenever it wants to die down, he magically goes back in your skin as no scar. It was like the craziest pain. And every doctor, neurosurgeon. Stayed away from you. Because there's no cure for it.

Right. All right. So at the worst and worst times. While this is going on, I have a song and songs I had been working on, but I can't, because when he did that, he also scraped my vocal cords. Now I don't even have a speaking voice, let alone singing, and I can't, I can barely walk and I couldn't dance. Good Lord.

Bad joke. That's okay. It wasn't great. It wasn't great, but it was, you know, sometimes I just, a 14-year-old of me comes out. I get it. We'll cut it. the 13-year-old name. Go ahead, go ahead.

So, worst time of your life, your vocal cords, all these things, what happens? I was going to New York to meet with my publisher, because now I'm in a predicament. I can't work. I can't, I can't, I recorded background vocals on certain songs.

There was a song I was working on that, it was a retro disco type of feel song that I wanted to do about my divorce. And it was, I wanted to be fun, but it was like, kind of like a, but it was a great dance record. And I met, I remember saying, you know, to my publisher, can I sell some songs? And I remember I was in pain and my publisher's greatest guy in the world, Evan Lamberg. And he knew what I was going through. And it's just so weird because it was a rainy, rainy day.

I had to get back to L.A. I'm in terrible pain. And I go, I'm going to miss my flight. I can't get a cab. I got to call the hotel, book. I mean, the pouring rain is the wind chill factor. My umbrella's like torqued upside down and broken. And I'm soaking wet.

And this girl literally crosses the street, walks up to me and says, are you Paula after all? I said, yeah. And she goes, oh, yeah. She goes, my boss has a framed thank you letter from you. He has no thank you letters from any other. artist. Yours is framed. I go, who do you work for? She goes, the president of Billboard magazine, Mike Ellis. I go, oh, my God, I remember writing him a letter. Because he gave me a really

fair, equally pointed critique that from Madison Square Garden, I believe it was Madison Square Garden. And he pointed out real strengths that puts me in a lane of my own and real weaknesses that I'm aware of. And I learned how to get over the, whatever bad, you know, review you get, you got to understand, you got to remove the things that you have no business even caring about. If they attack you on a personal level, it's not in your business. But the things, you can improve. You have to take, do you have to, constructive criticism. And he was really equally fair. And I thought, this was, I remember that. I remember. And I, I wrote a handwritten, And thank you, I go, wow, I remember that.

I go, are you on lunch break? And she goes, yeah. And I go, well, I'm missing my flight. You wind up lunch with me? She goes, you're shitting me. I don't know. She goes, God, you really are the girl that you seem to be. And I said, Brooklyn Diner's right across street.

Let's have lunch. Oh, I love the Brooklyn Diner. And I said, so are you an aspiring singer, songwriter? She goes, everyone is who works at Billboard, but we can't solicit ourselves. And I go, I hear you. I go, are you good? She goes, oh, I'm damn good. I went, wow.

I go, well, you said you live close? Can you bring me some of your demos? She goes, really? I goes, tell me what you want. And on a napkin, I wrote what she wanted to eat. She went, she came back. She goes, I can't believe I'm doing this. I listened, literally four bars in.

I took the headphones off. I said, you are that good. I said, wow. I said, she goes, I go, I'm going to be coming back. She goes, where have you, like, where have you been? I said, I explained to her. It's been a really tough road for me. I've been, I sustained so many bad injuries and surgeries.

And she was like, I go, but I want to reserve three songs I just heard because I will be getting a record deal. I will be doing that. She goes, are you kidding me? I said, no. I said, also, I want to. want to put it out there that if you really are serious about this, I will let you come and stay with me in L.A. And I'll introduce you to riding camps and things like that. And I said,

all I ask is that you give enough notice to Mike Ellis. And two weeks later, she said, are you still willing to? I said, absolutely. And she gave enough notice to Mike Ellis. And Mike Ellis had said, of course, it's Bala. I moved a complete stranger. Her name was Kara. I okay this is important she comes to live with me the first week she's living with me in my condominium in west hollywood i from like a recommendation from jim brooks from james l brooks talking about a psychic this woman and the and you know she's apparently great you go see her i had maybe been a couple of psychics in my life not and i but it was like i are it was already paid for and I decided to go.

Okay? I started to go. I said, Carrie, do you want to come with me? Sure. So it's this amazing woman named Dolores Catalucci. Italian broad, a woman who finds missing children and works for the police station. She's an amazing psychic, and she's in Banais, like on Calvert Street. You stay in your car until I call you.

When I call you, get out of the car. Well, obviously, because I saw Brad Pitt and Jennifer Aniston walking out of this house, like, major people. So you walk in, the first thing she does, she goes, give me a keys, give me jewelry, give me your phone, give me something. She disappears less than 30 seconds later. She comes back. She goes, put your tape recorder on, get your pet, start writing, and she starts spewing out a whole bunch of information. And she says, you've had a rough go at this. you're going to be okay.

Your health is going to figure itself out. You're going to be okay. Not without struggle. And she's starting talking to me about my dad and that my dad was going to develop dementia, and he did in Alzheimer's. She told me that my sister is going to be in full remission from breast cancer.

That happened. And then she told me you're going to be doing a TV show and I'm going fantastic. And I'm thinking, okay, it's this MTV show that I pitched. She goes, no, no, that's not that one. And she goes, look, she goes, it's a talent show. I go, like Star Search, she goes, I don't know. But it's going to be the biggest thing of your career.

You think music's big? Really? She said all this. Not only did she say all of this, she went as far as telling me that I'm going to be sitting next to a hole from across the pond and eight. And then African-American guy that you somehow know. I'm like, I'm not even paying attention because I'm not like, I'm not doing a talent show. That's crazy.

Not doing a talent show. And she goes, honey, you willed it to happen. I can, I read from three years from now to three years. And I, you willed it to happen. How long after you saw her did you get this call? Almost three years later. So, remember. Oh, she asked me, do you want her to be in your reading?

I said, I don't care. Yeah, fine. So Tara was in the reading with me. I forget about all of this. I'm paying attention to my sister's health and my dad's health to watch your dad because he's going to start losing his motor skills and he's going to fall and break his ankle or something. And he did.

It was just sad. Things were happening. I didn't, I never paid attention to what she said. I had a tape recording of it. I had notes from it. And two and a half years later, where this thing? I get a phone call from my attorney and business manager to sing and my publisher. Because what I didn't tell you is when I missed my flight and I had to stay over another hotel,

Kara worked on this song for my post-divorce, the vintage, you know, retro disco song that was doing. About Emilio Estavus? No. No. The second one that I don't. get to, I don't even have to talk about it. Oh. It was an old. It was another one. It was an old. But we finished a song and that was how I'm, and then two, two and a half, three weeks ago, she was living with me. And she was in that reading with me. And I, I introduced her to

different writing camps of people that I know. She was a funny roommate. And the reason I'm telling you all this, because you know my stories are crazy as they are. Two and a half years later, I get a call, I'm in a hospital bed. And my publisher first says this, not my attorney. My publisher says, are you sitting down? Little did he know I was two days out of it. Yet now my 11th or 12th surgery, 13th surgery, it was like towards the tail end of them. I go, yeah.

He goes, that song that you worked on with Kara, I pitched it to an artist that was huge before you ever came out, Paula. But Australian girl, I go, Locomotion, Kylie McNogue. He goes, yes, she's on a very small label called London Beat Records and loves the song. And she removed scratch lead vocals. She put her lead vocal on. And he goes, Paula, it looks like it's going to enter the charts number one. the U.K.

Blessing. Kara's first number one record. Was with you? For another artist that was given to Kylie Monogue. It went number one in every territory, except it wasn't released in one territory, the United States, a song called Spinning Around. Now, that's the first number one for her, for Kara, and it's a renaissance for Kylie Mano, because it's a renaissance for Kylie Minnogue.

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Several months later, I get a call for my attorney and business magic when, Paula, you need to sign off on licensing and mechanicals for the song that you did with Kara and this guy, Ira. And it's for a show in the UK, some kind of talent show. Nothing's going off in my brain. No, Delars Catalucci. And there was another psychic name is Faye out here who I saw that predicted the same exactly, all within relatively one year time.

Same thing. Same people. All right. Keep going with this. So now I'm going, I go, can I get the number of the producer you're talking to? And my attorney, my publisher, everyone who's worked with me, my agent, they know I'm tenacious. I'm looking for a way to help these artists. I hear it's a talent show. And guess what? Every kid in this new UK show called Pop Idol is coming in and auditioning singing

Acapella spinning around the song that went number one from Kara, myself, and this guy I wrote. Now, I call this woman, I keep getting hung up on because they don't believe it's me. It's not the opulics, it's not impula, that kind of stuff. And it's like, oh my God. And I keep calling. And finally, I just started humming straight up. And I could hear the phone. Oh, Plex, it's her.

It's her. And this woman, Claire Howell, got on the phone, who's a producer, and she went and on, I said, I would love to somehow get involved in help. I'm a choreographer. And I work with artists. I work with Michael for Jackson for six years. George Michael, I give signature. Let me work with.

I'm thinking anything and everything I can to get away from, I'm in the hospital right now. on my 12th surgery, 13th surgery. And she goes, oh, my God, that would be fantastic. She goes, listen, we're at still. I thought she was English. Well, I, what accent am I doing now? Oh, did I go into it? No, go ahead, go ahead.

Well, I'm back to the American because I'd like to save the British first, Simon. She went on to say that, you know, we just begun. It's the biggest show in the UK. The Queen clears her diary to vote. I went, what? Oh, yes, the country boats. I went, huh? She goes, and it's brutal.

You know, everyone talks behind you back in America. But here, there are these two wretched guys. One is a big producer named Pete Waterman. I go, I know Pete, the banana, Rama, A's the Base. And this other guy who's an ANR executive named Simon Cowell, they're horrible. They make young men fall to their knees crying in embarrassment because they tell you that you suck. I went, oh my God.

And there's a really sweet girl in the middle who's a radio DJ. And it's hosted by these two comedians. And I said, I said, well, I would love to. She goes, listen, when we get down to the top 20 or top 12 or whatever, we'll fly you out here to work with the kids. I'm great. I go, in the meantime, can you send me any tapes? Because I don't know what the show looks like. And later on, I got sent some tapes to look at.

And I watched and I saw how wretched it was. I was like in shock. But I didn't hear back from Claire until I just accepted choreographing, even with, because the beauty of choreographing, I could be, God forbid, God forbid, I still can choreograph. And my dancers know my lingo, my language. And I, you know, that's a beautiful thing. And I was still coming out of surgeries and I just signed on to do. Dana Carvey's comeback movie after he had

the wrong part of his body operated. Do you remember when it was Master of Disguise? I just signed on principal photography starting. I get a call from this woman, Claire Howell. We're ready to bring it to London. I said, I can't. I can't. Just no worries, no worries.

The show is the biggest show in the world. I bet bet you there's going to be a bidding work. We'll be coming to America within nine months to a year. I did. I forgot all about that. And then I get a call. It's almost three years to date. It's almost a year from when Claire Howell said she would call me.

And I get a call from, not Claire, after I said, you know, I can't do a master of disguise. Almost a year later, I get a call from my business manager and attorney saying, Fox is trying to get a hold of you. They want you to come down and an interview for a TV show. show. I go, what kind of TV show? It's their new division, like, of reality shows. And, like, all that we knew about was, was you all the weakest link. That was Anne Robinson. And that was the first brutal take on what this. So I'm hearing it's a town show. I don't put, I don't, I'm not thinking Dolores Cartilucci. I'm not thinking Miss Faye. I'm not thinking of the tapes.

Right. And so you go in. I go in and Nigel Lickgo. There's, There's like 18 people from Fremantle and producers and Fox producers. And you just have to audition? Are you just? No, I was called in. So I was called in. And I'm not thinking about anything. And then I'm, then I hear it's, there's a wretched guy named Simon Cowell and I'm still

not putting two and two together. And then there is, there are these two hosts. One is a radio DJ at Coast 103 FM. He's a new guy named Brian Seacrest. And this budding comedian that's won the Aspen Comedy Fest named Brian Dunkelman. And I'm just, I'm listening to all this. Oh, and then you're sitting in between Simon Cowell, the wretched guy,

and an African-American, Randy Jackson, not the fat member of the Jackson's, but another fat member. That's what they said. This is like, I'm going, I'm in shock. Right. He says it's not the member, not the fat member of the Jackson's,

and I'm going, does he not know that I worked with the Jackson's? Like, rude. And I'm going, this guy is bold. And then all of a sudden, bullet start flying. George Cartilucci, Claire Howell, Miss Bay. Oh, shit. Simon Cowell.

Like, everything. made sense yet my heart is in my feet now because I willed this to happen I will this to happen that's what I was told how did I will this to happen nothing's making sense to me other than if this is supposed to be my job why am I feeling so shitty right and what ended up happening was I said when is this job starting well that's the thing Paula you got to pack your bags because in three days, we go to our first city of auditions. Now I'm knowing it's that pop idol show. Oh, my God. But why is this bill so bad? I said, when is it starting? Three days? I said, you know, I'm really sorry, but I have fiduciary responsibilities that I bought. And I said, I wish I would have known

earlier. And I'm dying inside because I'm still thinking of the missiles. It's never enough. It's like, there's just some stupid. There's an old show called Eight is Enough. I remember A's Enough. Right. And there was, I wrote this script that got sold but never got made. But I remember the two kind of has-bens on the show that I wrote. I love has-bens because-well, they're guys that had been something and they're not.

And they're looking at the TV. And he's like, Willie Ames was an actor on that show, eight is enough. He goes, Willie Ames, man, whatever happened to Willie Ames. He's like, dude, he did Charles in charge. He did this. He did this. Isn't that enough? And I go, eight is enough.

That's a really stupid moment. But it's so true how you could be famous and do all these things. And all of a sudden, where's that guy? Where's she now? Why isn't success success? Because you're taught in this business that you are. Oh, fuck, that changed the stigma. It changed the trajectory of it.

If you were successful, you've made it. A hundred percent. You were famous. You made it. That's the way the business wants to make you feel. But the truth of the matter is, you've got to believe in yourself. You got to stand in that light and know, hey, I broke the odds. I'm in the less than one percentile who.

Oh, my God. You know what I mean? It's like. You're like, when I told my friends, Paul Abdul's come to the house to, I'd, to be interviewed. They're like, what? I interview so many people. And they're like, oh, that's cool, dude.

Really? Cool, man. And sometimes I get really key for Sutherland. That's cool. But when I said Paula Abdul, they're like, you're fucking kidding me right now. Like you're, like, just to have a name, Paul Abdul, what you've done and what you've accomplished, I hope you know, and you should know that it's just like, that's enough. Oh, that is, you have done so much.

I've done crazy. Listen, this has been the longest interview I've ever done. I'm really sorry. No, it's not. But the thing is, is my life story is no little, it's had it or not. Do you understand? I've already thought of filming this movie called Paula. And the movie starts out with narration.

And hang on. And then you see this little girl. She's like, I was born prematurely. I had this, blah, blah, blah. I had this breathing thing. When I inhale, blah, blah. And all of a sudden, it shows you going, oh, I got three to one says she's going to pass out before she gets to the leg and it shows you his little girl in these leotards and

boom passes out and then she passes out somewhere else and it shows you rapidly growing up and all that shit i can see it my last question to you and and we got to make it short is just because i want to talk to you again because you're awesome to talk to but when the simon cowell stuff you don't really get into that other than you had anxiety and things like that but just if you can kind of like did you ever get through that with him did you ever confront each other and kind of make it cool. Was there ever a moment where I can't, I can't work with them.

I'm not going on stage. I'm not doing this. Kind of wrap that up. You know, it's like, look, I've been working since I was kid and I've been working in really high pressure adult. You know how to deal with it. But I'd never gone.

First of all, reality TV live, live, live was a brand new thing. So it's awkward, it's intimidating. You don't know. I had to learn, oh my God, if we're typing in front of live audience, they can alter and edit my words to not eat. I'll never forget having entertainment tonight in my house, in the Liberman, with my family.

And I can't wait because I work for entertainment tonight. I'm going, guys, wait to you here. What Simon says and how I defend this amazing girl. They cut it. I was saying like this is the most, insane statement you could ever make that all you have to say is you look like a fat version of Jessica Simpson how can you say that she said that he said that yes oh yes and that was cut and all of that's cut and this is what you see you're so pretty

I had to well but you know what the truth of the matter is I've always been the girl that I am I mean you are an idol and you are amazing and it's fun meeting you at the this con that I met you at and it was your first con and it was in Pittsburgh and I see you just so many people over there and you're signing autographs and you're making so many people happy. Do you get anxious at these cons or do you feel do you love being around the fans? Is it something new to you and that you want to experience more? I'm a people person. Obs. Obs as you are too. I love being able to meet people that have like so richly honored me. and paid honor and respect and have been there as fans for so long.

It's overwhelming when you see, you're kind of sandwiching in the area, and your backs against the wall, and all of these people, and you're up close and personal with them. It's a little overwhelming. It's a little overwhelming. It's a little overwhelming. But it was a great gift because any time I can connect and make a difference and be present to acknowledge these amazing people who have stood behind.

buy me and beside me it's awesome well look i mean there's some work you're coming back will you come back you ask me out my life story do you know richard branson who signed me by the way i was one of the first four artists that richard branson signed and virgin records was a studio apartment on santa and doheny they signed roy oberson steve winwood a group called the cutting crew and and And Paul Abdul Paul Abdul For like I knew I'm the underdog

I know this position very well Throw me up against the wall See if I See if it sticks And when I tell you The ROI of what they gave me And what they would say Oh the airline that Paula built

Oh the Frank Lloyd Bright building is that Paul built The Mercedes and the Rolls Royce that Paul It's like the joke was that within a year and a half time from like under $100,000 to an entire album, which I bartered deals on

and said, Prince, you write the song for me, I'll choreograph. Just making deals to get things made. And teaching cheerleading camps and dance camps. Just to make ends me, to make your dreams come true. And you know what? In a year and a half, Roy Everson died that year

and sold a million albums at a platinum record. and Steve Wynwood, I think, sold a million albums. And then I broke records as a debut artist, the biggest album. And by the way, everyone says, well, because she's a video artist. Well, people, the truth is that all of my songs went number one, and I was scrambling to catch up and make a video. That's why my album stayed on the charts, record-breaking amount of time, because I had number one songs

and I had three weeks later a month later would come a video which prolonged the success of my life. Wow. Well look I love the story. You've done we're going to get into it but it's like your residency in Vegas, your jewelry, your you have a clothing. I mean there's so many things you go to your

Instagram. There's just like it's it's endless. And you want to know the groove gear collection right? Yeah. And you have these glasses. Do you want to hear the craziest thing? No artist can say like no No. So Richard Branson signs me. Success beyond success. Last April, I got a call from Richard Branson's office, and Richard wanted to know if I'd give him permission to name his next rocket straight up. I went, watched the rocket get built. I was there. I filmed. I actually saw my rocket straight up take launch on July 1st. Who gets to say that? That is beautiful.

Well, look, this has been a damn joy. I'm going to hold you to it. You're going to come back and we're going to talk more. This is awesome. Thank you. This has been great. This has been really, really fun and great for me too. So thank you.

And we never. We made the time because we don't, we usually do it in the morning, late morning. But this is kind of like a Friday, early evening special before the weekend get started. It's like the jazz session. Yeah. I like it. All right. I love you.

Thanks for coming here. Thank you. Oh, I loved it. She was so sweet. But, you know, after that, she's like, text me, we'll go out to dinner. And she never texts me back. I thought we're going to have, I'm going to have dinner with Paul Abdul. Paul Abdul's busy.

Paul Abdul has been busy for a long time. That's Abdul shit, man. That's Abdul's shit right there. Thank you, Paul, for coming on the show. I love you. You're fantastic. You're beautiful. You're a talent that needs to be recognized and is recognized.

and just so much going on with her. She said she'll come back on and talk more about Simon and stuff, so that was fun. If you want to listen to any of the other stuff that I mentioned in the intro, do it inside of you online store, patron.com slash talkville. And one of the perks for the patrons is I get to give shoutouts to your names, all my favorite people here. If you want to become a patron, support the podcast. We need you. Here we go.

Nancy D. Leah S. Little Lisa, Y, Yiko, J.E., Brian H. Nico P. Robert B. Jason W. Sophie M. Raj C. Joshua D. Jennifer and Stacey L. Jamal F. Janelle B. Mike E. L. Duns Supremo. Raj and other horror people. Leanne likes horror. There's some others that like horror. Brian Henningham. Nico. But there's this movie go, I see you. It's on Netflix. I had fun with it. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of problems with it. But it was kind of fun. I kind of liked it. The movie air is awesome, by the way. oh gosh 99 more santiago m santiago the uh the bust here is awesome if you guys could see that in the distance it's a small bell bust ryan want to hold that so santiago made this bust and it is just freaking fantastic and he's also making me some inside of you like uh figures that i'm going to put on the site it's uncanny i mean look at that oh it's kind of creepy looking at myself all right there you go be careful we'll break

Chad W. Lian P. Janine R. Maya P. Maddie S. Belinda and Dave H. Oh, Dave Hull. How are you, mate? I love you, man. Sheila G. Brad D. Ray. Hadaada. Tab of the T. Tom and Liliana A. Taga. M. These names. That's their family. Betsy D. Chad L. Angel, Amrian, C. Corey. K. Dev Nexon. Michelle A. Jeremy C. Brandi D. Joey M. E. Eugene and Leah. Corey, Heather L. Jake B. Megan T. Angela F. M. M. S. Melle S. Orlando C. Caroline R. Christine S. Eric H. Shane R. Andrew M. Tim L. Karina N. Amanda R. Gen B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. Jore L. Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Cindy E. Mike F. Stone H. Ms. S. Brian L. Kdi B. Aaron R. Kendall L. I love the newbies too. House J. Meredith I. Charlene C. Caracy. Mary R. Sheena L. Jessica B. F, Marisol P, Estevan G, Kaylee, J, Megan Kay, Mickey L, and Brian A. Could not do this podcast without you, guaranteed. So thank you for your love and support. And I love you. And from the Hollywood Hills in Southern California, Michael, Michael Rosenbaum.

I'm rioting. Right there. Right. Southern California. Right there. We'll wait to the camera. We love you guys. Please, please, please be good to yourselves.

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