Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Revisiting Smallville Episode 2 with Tom Welling | Metamorphosis

Episode Date: July 21, 2022

Little bonus drop of Episode 1 of my new show Talk Ville: talkvillepodcast.com/show⁣ Tom and Michael address the step back in the second episode of the series Smallville where the ‘freak of the week’ concept gets solidified with our introduction to a buggy individual. The guys reflect on the suspension of disbelief that it took to shoot certain scenes and what it was like shooting the special effect shots that involved kryptonite and bullet time. During this episode, Michael points out scenes that didn’t flow after remembering cut dialogue and Tom looks for answers on the floating that never got addressed. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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I'm Michael Rosenbaum Hello, I'm Tom Welling That's right, Tom Welling is via Northern California Ryan Tejas is here Hello Ryan, how are you? I'm okay. I'm good. Did everybody

watch the episode last night? Oops. What episode? The one amorphosis. I'm going completely on memory. Welcome back, folks. If this is your first time with us today,

I'm going to tell you about what the podcast is. This is pretty much a rewatch podcast. What you see is what you get. You like the new sign. We have a sign here. We had this made. I want one. You want one, too.

We got to get you one too because we see the Smallville poster back there, Tom, that you have. Well, very quickly, I was like, I got to put something for Smallville, and I was like, I think I have a poster. Of course, the only poster I have is the only one with only me on it. Most of the posters had only you on it. No, but I really wanted that one of, like, you and Kristen and me. Like, that would have been so much cooler. but I guess I got to order some posters. Well, we'll get you something.

We'll get you a Talkville poster, so it matches this room, and we'll have that in the back, and it will look nice. But look, look, the podcast is a re-watch podcast. We've always, you know, it's 20 years now that have passed since Smallville aired for the first time. And, you know, in the beginning, right when you're done with the show, the last thing you want to do is talk about the show. But enough time has passed that I feel like we're excited. people are doing these rewatch podcasts. It's fun to go back. It's fun to talk to you guys. So we include you guys. Also, look, if you're returning, thank you and get ready because we've got a lot to go through in this next episode. Episode two is metamorphosis. If you didn't get a chance to call in and leave your questions for this episode, make sure you get some in the future by calling our hotline. You know our hotline, Tom? Our hotline number. Do you haven't memorized yet? Not yet. 213-538-283.

That's 213, 538, 288.3. I'm sure they're going to put it right in front of us so we could see it. But you could leave messages. I urge you not to last long. That sounded like me in the sack. Whoa. Or it didn't sound like you in the sack. Or it didn't sound like me in the sack.

But make sure you leave these messages like 30 seconds or less and make it a question. Come up with a question from the episode that you're interested in. you want to know what was going on during that time period. By the way, that's a good point because I called and left a message. I didn't know to keep it under 30 seconds. Great. I'll do that next time. You shouldn't be calling, Tom, with your own questions.

This is your show. I do have questions. Well, you can ask us these questions. You could state these questions. Look, if you want to follow us, we'd really appreciate it. We're just getting going here. Our socials are TalkVille podcast. That's T-A-L-L-L-E podcast on Facebook, Instagram.

and YouTube talkville podcast and also on Twitter it's talkville pod so you know there's conversations that go on after the show's over during the show whatever it's it's there it's a platform for you we appreciate uh your support and you know really launching this thing it's and it's also fun i mean this is our this is the second one we've done we've already learned a lot from the first it's only going to get better yeah but i i find that the participation is fun like some of the questions we get are like oh i didn't even know that about that scene that's a good question So it's funny. Yeah, I agree with you.

I think there's, boy, I'll tell you, the more I watch this stuff, the pilot and now metamorphosis, I started taking notes while I'm watching. And there's a lot of stuff. Like, I have some notes here. And I'm sure you guys have some notes as well. Well, I'm starting to gain respect for Al Miles. The creators of the show, yes. Now that I rewatch it, I'm like, maybe these guys were on to something. I see this now.

You know what, though, I have to say. And look, I love those guys madly. And, you know, this is, this is, I, I'm very self-deprecating. I know you are, Ryan is, it's, it's a good thing to be. But what I noticed is I had, I had a problem. I had a problem. We're going to talk about metamorphosis. I'm going to tell you what it's about and all this stuff.

But, you know, before I do that, before I speak my mind, let's just tell you, metamorphosis aired October 23rd, 2001. The director was Philip Garcia. And Michael Watkins. I remember Watkins. I remember Michael Watkins. Yeah. He was very prepared.

He wasn't there very, I think he left rather quickly from the show. A lot of people were fired from that show in the beginning, if I recall. Or some. Yes. For a couple different reasons, I think we were trying to find what we were. But we needed those guys like Michael at the beginning who knew how to, I mean, if you watched the show, one of the things that I get is how many beautiful shots there are. Yeah. Like the cameras are always moving.

The shots are David Nunter. Oh, yeah. started that. But as time went on, we did sort of narrowed down to really five or six directors who were on our rotating schedule because then, like, they knew us, we knew them. It was just very, like, creative at that point. I agree. The writers of metamorphosis were Al Miles, Al-Goff, Miles Miller, the creators of Superman,

obviously, Jerry Siegel, Joe Schuster. Guest star was Chad Dinella, who was Greg Arkin. We'll get into his performance and all that stuff. Uh, synopsis, briefly, Greg Arkin has a passion for insects and Lana Lang. When Meteor Rock infected bugs swarm in, he takes on insectoid characteristics. Clark wakes up to find himself floating above his bed. Lex tries to help Clark Wu Lang, Lana Lang, by giving him her necklace. Clark discovers that he can protect himself from its effects with lead, the effects of

kryptonite. And Greg kidnaps Lana and Clark battles Greg to rescue her. That's ultimately the synopsis of what happens in the episode. I mean, there's obviously the plot, right. You know, ultimately, here's what I thought. We'll get into what we really thought, but the, going from the pilot to this episode, it sort of took a step back. You went from, holy shit, this is just a powerful TV show. We've got media showers.

Obviously, you can't be as big as you are in the pilot. Pilots are always the biggest episodes, and then they tail off. But I thought the story could have been a little more of a continuation, even though it hints at like little parts. I just felt like it was too bug boy, and, you know, it just, but it was entertaining. I respect that, but what I watch and what I see is we have a pilot that is so outstanding and introducing every character in such a beautiful way. that took a month to shoot. And then you go into the second episode and it's like 13 days. And what you're doing in the second episode is you're establishing what the show is really going to be.

We would call it on the show, they'd call it Freak of the Week. Correct. But I do agree. Like when you watch the second episode, the introduction, like the, I love the recap. It's only the second episode, but they recap. Yes. That recap is like, holy F. You know what I mean?

Like, this is astounding. There's a lot of quiet moments in this episode, dealing with a little more character, trying to bring up the heart of it a little bit, less pacing, in a sense, because the pilots are always amazing. I mean, they should be. Usually, I mean, it says the guy has to sell the show. It has to get people hooked. And look, I wasn't saying that I thought the show was terrible. I just thought it transitionally, it went from a solid, look, people a lot of times would say, freak of the week.

Why is it such a freak of the week? when you're writing 22 episodes a year, you have to have a freak of the week. You have to have episodes that are, you know, catered towards the Meteor Rock and things that have happened and, you know, people infected with the Meteor Rock. I understand that it's an easy way to go, Clark battling these people. It makes sense. And there are a lot of those episodes. I think as the show progresses into seasons two and seasons three, we start to see more character development and less freak of the week. Am I correct on that? I think so. I think I was going from, holy crap. I didn't remember how good this pilot was to, okay, because it opens up metamorphosis on this beautiful aerial shot that I'm like, holy crap, smooth. It goes right into the house.

It goes up, turns around. I actually wrote that done too. How did they do that, first of all? Do you know how they did that? Is that just an aerial shot, like a helicopter shot? And then all of a sudden, when they get to that, they use some kind of special effect, obviously? Yes. Transitionally?

Yeah. I don't know, man. But I like what they did. A lot of shows, they'll pan up and then pan down. What I like is they went up, they kind of like rotated. It just kept it alive. There's a lot of good shots in this, in the series, but also this episode. Yeah, absolutely.

And David Nutter started to direct this episode. And here's an interesting tidbit. David Nutter, who directed the pilot, started to direct this episode, but had such horrible back problems that he had to bow out. And hence, these two guys. well he wasn't doing any bowing that day he had back problems Garcia and Watkins yeah he wasn't bowing out

his for another joke there it is Ryan's here for the one liners there we go but so he had to take off he had to take off and leave it to these two guys to take over which is a big step a big what is it a big seat to fill would you say choose to fill I mean because David Nutter

going from David Nutter did these two guys that we haven't heard of I mean that's it's a lot to you know live up to the good news at the time I didn't know any of these people. So as far as I knew, even you, I was like, these people are all more qualified than I am. I mean, I used to think that you were a really good actor,

especially at the beginning. And I was just like, oh, my God, this guy can play a guitar upside down, and left-handed. He's like really talented. He's really weird. I don't even know how to hold a guitar at the time. So it's like, yeah. Look, there were so many good things about this episode.

There were good things. There were things that weren't great. But ultimately, this bug boy, he lives with the, his mom. He's not very popular in high school. He's got these zits, which I thought were zits on his face. But now Tom's wife was watching the show and here's her take on him. So we're watching the show and my wife has never seen Smallville throughout. I mean, I think I'm pretty sure she's aware that I was on the show. But now that I'm rewatching it, she's like, oh, I mean, I haven't seen that episode. I'm like, well, you didn't see the pilots. I showed you last week. So we're

watching it. And it's the bug boy. And he's got all these things on his face. And she's She goes, oh, look at all those bug bites. And I was like, huh? She's like, there's a bug bites. And I'm like, oh, honestly, I didn't, I never got that. I thought there was Zitz. Yeah. I thought he had a bad case of acne.

Yeah. What do you guys think? Let's start a little, a, what do you call it? A, what do you call it? A, um, online, a chat. A little forum. Forum. Well, the funny thing about that, too.

What do you think it was? Zits or bug bites guys. One thing that they talk about in the show is that Clark used to be friends with this guy, him and Pete used to hang out in the, he had that little tree house, another other stuff. You're talking about Greg the bug guy. They used to hang out.

Back in the day, you would hang out with him, right? Or no, or it was Pete? Yeah. So we both did, apparently as kids.

Right. Then he just kind of did his thing and relationships move on, and that's a theme of this episode as well. And then one of the things further on the episode, I know we're going to get to that. But when he sees Greg again, Greg is like this adult with, like, perfect hair.

And I just look at it. back i wish clark would have been like you know great you've you've grown up or something like yeah there's really no nod to that so that's a well i guess these bugs that he's been raising uh ryan you tell me what you thought but they they had uh crypt they were infected with the kryptonite rock right the media well kind of what what tom was saying like it was weird that lana like off the bat like recognized him when he like showed up at the farmer's market like that's the first time like he just shows up and he's like Greg and I was like well I'm glad she said it because I was like who the fuck is that looking completely different yeah 10 years older right right yeah uh you know he

so this guy has this infatuation with insects and he lives with his mom he's not popular like we said and somehow you know he's he's going to be sent off to boarding school so his mom's about to call the boarding school and he's a military school and he takes off gets all his insects gets in his vW bug by the way his bug and he's He's listening to Papa Roach. Papa Roach, he's listening to. If you're listening carefully, there's a post. There's a bugs.

Nice. There's a post in his room when we find his dead mop. Sorry, the spoiler alert, but yeah. Yeah, so two quick things about that is he's not popular in school. He's not even popular with his own mother. Yeah, his mom's a real bitty. And if you notice when she says, I'm calling the boarding school on Monday at a military academy, and shripping you off his first line is

who's going to take care of my bugs he doesn't even care about himself at that point no he doesn't even say I'm not going to military school he's just worried about his bugs loves his bugs yeah I wonder what do if he got crabs would he be excited about that I don't know I wasn't excited when I got them in college tell you that much well they're not bugs

I know the crabs but anyway we could erase that no I don't know I don't give a shit I wouldn't I don't care I don't give a shit I mean I was so 18 years old You know, so it was on a couch, it was dirty, I got crabs. Happened 40 years ago. Yeah, I mean, what are you going to do to me? By the way, he's got this infatuation with Lana Lang.

He makes videos of her. He's always shooting her with a camera. You know, he's just a really troubled, troubled kid. And ultimately, he's in his car, and the bugs get loose. They bite him. They do whatever. They infect him with meteor. They swarm him, and he gets bitten.

And the next thing you know, he's, He's transformed into this non-bug-bited, bug-bitten face. He doesn't have any bug bites anymore. His hair slicked back. He's cooler. He's got superpowers. He's mullting and he's about to... He's about to mate.

He's about to mate. And he finds his mate is Lana Lang. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. you can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices.

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Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. by the way credit to christin in this episode how many guys are trying to try to that down we've got and if you watch it Kristen and i would imagine in her life christian gets a lot of attention in this way anyway but she's so good at sort of being polite and deflecting and moving and not insulting and that's that's a that's a character trait for her which i respect but literally what are there four or five guys well like solana what's up i mean you got draggy

You got Clark, you got Whitney, and then Lex is kind of show, what is this about? Midway through this episode, Lex Luther shows up to the barn. Now, you know, I would defend Lex and say, hey, he's looking out for his best friend, but he's kind of lurking. He just shows up. He's a little older. He's kind of giving you this look. I mean, do we think that he likes her then?

I don't, I think it's not, he doesn't have, he doesn't have ulterior motives. I think he's trying to help Clark. At this point, he's a good guy. What I get from that scene, and she and right away they talk about you know the pool and her seeing you in the pool teaching the breaststroke and that sort of and it that scene is actually two scenes to me and I think this is funny that um she you kind of show up she kind of tells you you're a creep what are you doing here and then all of a sudden you turn to the the awards thing and now you guys

are best friends like all this you know why I remember I remember what I remembered is they cut a lot of the dialogue from that. So they just cut it to me turning around and it doesn't really tell that part of the story where I transition to looking at the awards and things. But what did you gather, Ryan? Oh, you did a lot of lurking in this episode.

A lot of lurking. It was creepy. Was it kind of creepy here? It was a little creepy. Yeah. Yeah, but I, but I looking back what I see is you're setting it, you're setting it all up. I mean, I think Chloe says or Lana says that Lex puts on the breadcrumbs and that they follow it

and that's something that your character always did you're always like a step ahead which I thought was really interesting what I also thought was interesting about your performance is I saw like a John Cusack like 1980s sort of like I'm just going to talk a little bit slower so I can control

the rhythm of what we're doing here like I saw you doing that and it worked because it was creepy you know what's funny is I remember being really nervous in this episode too i remember i took a while to get the nerves out but i remember i was a little bit i i didn't have the swagger but you know it was just kind of like i didn't exactly like i noticed these things and that kind of came as i grew as an actor and grew as a character um but you know you know

telling you the trojan horror story which is explain that because it's there's a parallel there's a there's a parallel with the trojan horse so this is something that i learned having rewatched it because first of all when i watch these episodes and i see Clark. I was telling, I was telling my wife that she's like, what's it like watching yourself? I'm like, I really don't think I'm watching myself because I'm so much younger and I look so different, but I, but I feel like I'm watching a character, but I know what he's thinking. That's how I feel when I watch these things. I don't, I don't actually think, oh, there I am. It's really strange. But in that Trojan horse scene, what I think

is interesting is Clark definitely doesn't get the parallel, which is that Lex is handing him a Trojan horse as he's, just as he described the Trojan horse war, you know, uh, description. Right. Clark just doesn't, he doesn't get it, nor should he. And there's a lot of things as we'll get into the episode. So the Trojan horse kind of is, is where they put soldiers in there and they didn't, and they led them through the gates and then, you know, all hell broke those.

Well, the actual story. Yeah. So the, the warring party trying to get into the fortress says, hey, listen, guys, let's be friends. here we made this horse here you go well they bring the horse in in the middle of the night the soldiers pop out and from the inside they guess right right it's a very yeah it's a very if you don't know about the trojan horse you should look it up because it's a yeah also what what i'll say is the the kryptonite this is what kind of bothered me they lingered on this kryptonite

where he lex opens it and clark sort of like is is is crippled by it and he's like oh oh and lex looks at him goes you okay clark and then he looks back down at the the kryptonite necklace and then he looks back up to he figured it out what does it take another 10 years because he was gonna i i like to think that lex had a bigger plan if he had just said oh clark it's a kryptonite that makes you wake here let me put this on you and control you right and we would have been done in episode two uh yeah i think lex was smarter than that i what i do think is funny that if he wasn't, then he's going like this and going like, bro, you're right? Like, imagine I came to your house and you were like, hey, check this out and I got sick.

You wouldn't just move on from that. No. Hey, that's weird. I opened this box and you started to kind of get nauseous. What's in this box? Is there shellfish in here? I don't quite understand what's happening here, Clark. I like the theme of seafood.

Yes. Interesting things of note, I said before. It's funny that Greg drives a VW bug. Oh, the hand effect. I thought that was really cool. That kind of like swollen, vainy thing. I thought they, again, the effects were really good, top notch back in 2001 and onward. But, you know, obviously today they've done wonders with special effects.

Well, and maybe no one cares about this. But what you have to understand is when you're in the scene, you know, I'm looking at my hand, believe it or not, my hand's not actually doing that in that moment. That's something that's done later. I mean, it's obvious. And like many of the things that happened on Smallville, we'd go to shoot whether it was heat vision or super speed. And they'd be like, okay, action. And I'm like, well, what?

And they're like, well, look at your hand. You have to really use your imagination and create these things very quickly. Yeah. By the way, do we know what the save count is? By the way, we're going to go over this every episode. The save count, Clark's save count. What I have right now is in the pilot who did you save in the pilot you saved the dude on the cross remember you saved him yep okay uh who else did you save in the pilot because in this episode you saved whitney with the fire with the explosion you saved lana lang inadvertently uh you know he

Whitney thinks he did it and uh and your dad when he fell off the uh the uh scaffolding or whatever ever the hell in the uh in the in the barn i have i have a note about that as we as we get let me hear it what's the note in the barn what's the note in the barn well the thing of the barn is we're they're fixing a tiller that attaches the back of a of a tractor to till up you know that's a very sharp heavy piece of equipment and when we do get to that point and clark breaks the fall of jonathan i thought it was really funny that and john and i remember talking about john So I'm laying on it, and this is thousands of pounds, this piece of equipment, and my body protects it, breaks it, and John falls on me. And then John gets up and just puts his hand out and lifts me up.

And I remember on the day, John being like, if he could fall on that piece of equipment and break it, wouldn't he be heavy when I picked him up? And that's like, you know what I mean? Like you got to be bigger, you got to be heavier than the thing that you broke in in order to break it. And that was just something that, you know, I ended up just getting lost in the... I'm sure the director goes, ah, yeah, let it go, John. Ryan, what did, what came across for you when you were watching this episode?

When you're tuning into Smallville, what was the ongoing, the theme, or not, or what you kept thinking of when you were watching? Why would you keep watching? Why would you keep, why did you notice? What jumped out at you? The music. The music.

It was good. music was very good yeah this is the first one with the theme song right because there wasn't one of the pilot the the Remy Zero title Oh really? It wasn't in the pilot It wasn't in the pilot I didn't even think about that So this is the first time

Remi Zero yeah Somebody save me So real quickly you know JP Nobody watching this really knows the JP is But we're in Mexico City three days ago And he's down having breakfast at the hotel And I'd go for a walk to try to wake up and I come back, he's the only person

in the restaurant and I walk in and he goes like this and I'm like, what? Dude, that song is playing as I walk in the restaurant. And I was like, what, like, I could win the lottery before this ever happened.

I wonder how much money they spent on that song. How much money did you think the band made? Well, I don't know if we heard about them again. So maybe they retired off. I think they made some good money off that show. You got to figure they're making a couple hundred thousand a year. Or they're like, we took that buyout. what a bunch of more yeah right what's that right well it's it's them and the rembrandts guys did the

friends theme it's just kind of like that was their calling card would you do that question would you rather have a song that is the title song for a tv show for five to 10 years yes or would you rather have a couple hit songs and not either i know of course yeah what i yeah that'd be amazing to write one song that just infiltrates the zeit guys like that that's true That would be so cool Yeah You could write other good songs I mean and then that just like

You could you could ride that forever And you could continue writing your shit Well I saw that long ago The guy who did that Superman Or the song with Superman like I'm not there to fly I'm not that night They still go around singing that's

Man want men to fly What episode does that appear Because that was a head when this was happening I was on small though I know that I'm for sure it was the music was really good on the show. It really was.

You know, they did a good job. They definitely did a good job. They spent the money on that. They spent it. They spent money on the show. It was a quality, the look, the look, the sound, everything about the show was really top-notch, especially at that time. What else jumped at you, Ryan? I thought you would have liked this one more because it kind of felt like a horror B movie.

You know, like a- I did like a couple things. When he goes, when he's talking to his mother and he just shoots that web at her, that was cool. I was like, oh, I jumped a little. I was like, oh, this is, that was kind of scary. And the peeling of the skin and the skin on the shower. There was some really cool stuff there. I think, but going from, you know, going from the pilot to, I'm not saying it was a bad episode. I'm just saying going from the pilot to this.

Right. It was a little bit like a drop. Certainly a drop. The pacing was very, you have to understand it. Like, the pilot was like bang, bang, bag, bag. Yeah. Every scene was bang, bang. bang, bang. And that's, it's not actually sustainable, but yeah, maybe this should have been

episode three, not episode two. Yeah, and by the way, they didn't explain the bug thing right away about the meteor and it took you a long time to go, how did, what is, how did he become bug boy? And then Allison starts talking about the wall of weird and, oh, and you kind of put piece it together in that scene. She spells it out for you. And there it is. That's why it's the meteor rock. And when you get a swarm of these insects, uh, this is what happens. but why if if he's infected it reminds me of like spider-man or even the fly yeah if he's infected by kryptonite infected bugs why can clark even put his hands on him like when you know shouldn't he be like like vibrating kryptonite through his bloodstream like

well in that case in that case good point good point but in that case wouldn't it be everybody who was infected with kryptonite so then you'd have trouble with everybody throughout the uh the years that's where we'd be like man that was a good pilot thanks for watching the podcast a podcast about a pilot that's it i do think it was dark i think the episode was dark i appreciated it um i like when they get dark i like when um you know we aren't so cookie cutter so uh and you know it pushes the envelope a little and that was a dark episode I'll be honest with you. I was watching those guys, all the actors on the show,

and I noticed, I was like, oh, Whitney, when did Whitney, when did he not come back to the show? How many seasons did he do? He did a lot. I don't know exactly, to be honest. I do know that when he didn't come back, I was surprised, and I remember Alan Miles being like, whoa, what did you think?

And I was like, oh, I felt kind of stupid. being surprised that he left. Right. Again, I guess that's the beauty of the ignorance that Clark had and I had is that I didn't know. Yeah. He didn't know. I guess it was like one of those characters that was he did a good job. He fulfilled what he was supposed to do.

And then they were like, hey, after season, we don't really, you know, we have nothing else to do with that character. We don't want to keep going down the ex-boyfriend or the boyfriend and then having the conflict between Clark. It will get old pretty fast. And that's probably true. But Eric Johnson, great guy, went on to do a lot of things. I think he did 50 Shades of Grey, the sequel. He's done a lot of things. We could probably get him on the podcast.

He's a great guy. And also, you know, Pete, SJ3, he actually lasted, what, four or five seasons, right? Yep. So he was around for a while. But, you know, I guess that's the thing with Clark and Lex. You always thought, well, they can't get rid of Clark. They can't get rid of Lex, I don't think. So we felt kind of safe with our jobs, but everybody else was, I guess, expendable.

I mean, maybe, maybe. Well, you know, you and I have joked about this in the past where, you know, during the contract phase of the whole thing. They're like, it's an ensemble. It's called Smallville. It's not called Clark. It's not called Superman. And I remember being like, oh, that makes sense. And then we go to shoot and I'm like, why am I in 99% of everything?

And like, even you, like, you are in four scenes, three scenes an episode at this point? That's what I noticed. I'm in everything. You are in every scene of this show. there is no doubt it's your show you are in 99% of everything and the more I watch I felt like man it had to be if you weren't 25 starting this show

I don't think you could have done it if you were 35 40 years old maybe 40s no doubt I don't think you can do it now could you I wouldn't do it now yeah I wouldn't I turned down a show I literally just turned down a show because it first of all it filmed in Toronto second of all they wanted to prosthetic. I'm out. I'm out. I just, you know, I understand it. But at my age, I just, I have to have an element of fun. I want to do something that's, you know, if I'm going to film a TV show, it's got to be relatively close. Well, I was advised during that experience

that if this goes well, your work will become easy. And they didn't mean easy like no effort. They meant like it will just, it will be all consuming and your life will become impossible. And I remember being like, uh, whatever. Looking back, that's exactly what happened.

My life became impossible and the show became my life. Yeah. I mean, poor me, like whatever,

I just wish I would have had more of a, uh, I wish I would have known how to enjoy it more. I understand that. I understand that. And I feel for you,

I do. You know, it's not poor you. Fuck that. I know you're thinking you're trying to defend yourself and people are like, oh,

he's rich. He's playing like, but like guys, Listen, you're giving up 10 years of your life. He didn't have 10 years. You might have seen him on TV and magazines, but 10 months a year he's on the show, working every day.

10 years is gone. From 25 to 35, yes, he got paid a lot of money. Yes, he was compensated. Yes, he was the star of the show. But also, there's a sacrifice. There is a sacrifice of missing out on 10 or so years of your life. And, you know, it's a little bit of a, you know, it's like, hey, are you willing to do that?

And you are. well and coming out of it and hopefully realizing some of those things you're not wanting to do that again or not or just changing your mode I the funny thing is like I'll go to like the dermatologist whatever good things looked at and they're like oh your skin looks really good I'm like well I was inside for 10 years of my life yeah not a lot of sun rainy Vancouver right let's let's talk about the things because we talk about highlights I mean some of the low lights as we'll call them you know the cobwebs I didn't think they looked very real on Lana. It looked like that, you know, that stuff you get at Halloween and you kind of rip apart. It didn't look like a cobweb. But, you know, I guess you let that go, right? Suspending disbelief. Yeah, it's suspension of the sleep was a big theme in the show. You know, when Clark goes and finds and reveals the mother in the cobwebs, I kind of remember being like this is ridiculous and stupid, but maybe this is what cobwebs look like. Yeah, like I convinced

myself with that. Oh, this isn't what I thought. You have to as an actor, don't you? Yeah. But I'm just like, oh, this looks a little different and creepy and there's probably nothing behind this. And then, you know, the head pops out because of the pharaoh spider, that whole thing. If you see the episode, that's what the pharaoh spider does. It's born and kills

his mother. Huh. Interesting. What do you think, Ryan? What do you think were some of the low lights? Some of the moments that you're just like, that didn't pay off. That didn't work. Because a lot of moments were great. We could talk about aerial shots. We could talk about the fire, the explosion in the truck.

We could talk about the fight when Jonathan Kent falls off the barn and Clark saves him. There's a lot of great moments here. But there are also some moments that just weren't there. I mean, well, 20 years later, the explosion, it's a little iffy. Right. The scene was good. It was like an emotional sort of like tying cart. like tying Clark Kent into the universe and showing like, you know, like his morality all in one

swoop. Mortality. And mortality. And mortality. Well, I'll really quickly about that. What I learned, I'll tell you what happened on that day is they set it up. It was really cool. To me, this is like, wow, this is like going to be a big explosion.

It's really great. And then, you know, the character Whitney's there. And they're like, all right, so, like, basically, when we say action, pick him up and just, you got to walk from point eight to point B. I'm like, okay, action. This dude's 180, 90 pounds of dead weight. You know what I mean? Like, people usually train for this stuff. Oh, God. Carrying dead people like who just don't have any weight in their body. So we'll talk as the podcast goes on about things that I learned along the way. But there were a little

tricks that you can do. But that's one thing I remember. It was like, like this, I mean, I don't think I was not strong. And I don't think I was like super strong. but like who picks up a guy like that it walks yeah well you know what i i i would think you know as we get go along and we'll see some other episodes they're definitely in the beginning i was like no i'll do my own stunt i'll do this and i remember falling i remember hurting myself i remember just and i'll let your fucking stunt guy do their job and don't be a hero they get they get paid for each stunt they do so every time an actor says i'll do it the stuntman's like yeah great do you know there was a guy uh we'll get to this episode down the road where he's three two one he's

like nope i'm not doing it and they're like what he's like i'm not doing it i can't he just freaked he froze i'm not i'm not falling off this thing into a couch i'm not doing it i can't do it and they had to let him go and they had to get another stunt guy because he wouldn't do it and he had shaved his head for the part you know to be my stunt guy yeah we never really saw him again Never really saw me in. All right, the phone line is 213-538-28-2883. But you could leave messages for this episode, and some did. And why don't we play those right now?

And there's only a couple. But here we go. Rosie, Welling. Hey, man. Jerich, here from up in Canada, Toronto area. wondering who chose music for each episode or the series whatever because bang-up job like the music was always on point oh always like just awesome job also did you guys create a bond with each other right from the beginning

or was that work over time or all right? Cool, man. Thanks. Bye. The first question, we were talking about the music and I did it and they did a good job but I don't know. Yeah, let me look that up Ryan. Look who's the music supervisor for Smallville from the beginning. I forgot the name and I should know. I think part of the the inside question to his question is

you know who decides. Honestly, we don't know when I agree that they did a good job. I think it comes down to the creators when they watch the show and they're like, yep, that song works, that song works. They have to approve it. A lot of people have to approve it. But the music supervisor has the daunting task of getting each song in and approved and getting the rights and spending a certain amount of money for the budget.

What was his name? For this particular episode on INDB, it's listed as two women, one named Jennifer Piken and Madonna Wade. Oh, I remember Madonna. I remember the name Madonna, but they did a top-notch job. out there. Top-notch job. Did we know we were going to become close?

I don't know. I think we had a respect for each other. We wanted to help each other out. What did you think? I think very early on there was a, there was just a, I don't know, like,

it's not like in a slow motion shot that like you walked around a corner and I saw you and I was like, wow, this is going to be great. I think it's, we're going to be the stuff of legend. I think it's like such little thing.

that happen in the moments that matter that just naturally occurred between us where we protected each other. Yeah. On both sides. I think, you know, you definitely helped me very clearly to be getting performance-wise

and just, you know, and I look at the time I looked up to you, it's different now. Yeah, of course. I understand that. But I think that it was, it was time in the trenches together where you just, you know,

and I think that happened, so for me, with a lot of the cast, it was about the performance it was about the show it was never really about anything other than that it was all consuming yeah i agree i think that look we all get help from like the people our peers are peers that you know john glover who played my father i learned a lot for him i know you did even john and annette being older veterans uh just having them on set it just was a certain energy and that mix with these young actors me included just to

it was a nice it just was a it was just really good having on said this dynamic it was a really good support system and I don't know how we were surrounded by so many good people whether it was you know Greg or you know whether it was

Glenn Winter whether it was you know JD all these guys everybody who sort of had this mentality of like let's make this really great let's focus make this great and I don't think I remember somebody it was a guest there that we had years later and he was like man you know you had a good show here

I'm like oh man thanks he goes no I don't I'm not talking about success I'm talking about all these people around you he goes it ain't always like this when this show ends be careful because most likely you're not going to have this and I was like I don't know what you're talking about and then you go on to some other sets and you realize that people are kind of looking out for themselves or they're trying to rush other people you know it happens we were very it was a very supportive environment yeah also let's talk about the dead count we talked about the saves so far Clark has saved

Whitney Lana Lang his dad the dude on the cross and the pilot I think he has four saves as of now I think dead people who died on the show how many people the bug guy died you saw those little bugs come out I thought that was a really

great effect I thought that was really cool he gets smashed at the end Clark smashes him with the machinery and those bugs and those bugs I feel like on this show unless unless we had a scene I think he's dead. The person maybe didn't die.

How about Lana's parents? Can we safely say they both died in the pilot? I think that's safe to say they were blown to bits. By the way, we never were talking about the butt boy. Holy crap. I mean, they're like, hey, sweetie. How are you?

My little three-year-old, boom. Dead. Explosion, meteor kills them. So three deaths. I'm going to go with three deaths. Back to making audition tapes for those guys. Hey, boom. Great. That's it. I wonder if that's on the real. Here's the next question.

Hey, Rosie. Hey, Tom. Thank you for doing this. Way cool. So this is Leanne here. I have a question for you guys. So in re-watching these really awesome episodes, Hothead, Metamorphosis, and X-rays that, you know, were filmed over 20 years ago. I'm curious what goes on in your mind, since you both have produced TV shows and directed as well. what goes on in your mind when you're watching it in terms of say special effects from 2001 as opposed to now or when you're watching it you go oh my god this is such shitty special effects as opposed to nowadays um would love to hear your insights on that and again thanks you guys for doing this this is really really cool i feel like i know how she feels yeah geez louise no i don't think she was trying to be insulting but i think she was something that we've talked about is you know it's it's 20 years later my man, my lady. And things happen. And, you know, it's called technology, technological advances.

Cameras are better, sounds better. Everything's better. So, you know, it's what it was. We were one of the best shows for special effects back in 2001. Do they hold up? Not a lot of them. Some of them do. I thought the bugs, a lot of the bugs held up, didn't they?

And the hand. And the hand. The kryptonite hand, I thought, hold up. Yeah, for the most part, that held up. So there's some good things that do hold up. Tom? I think what's important to remember is when the show first came on, it was filmed and it was edited to be formatted to be aired on television. And I think that, and then you get DVDs, which I think, you know, when people are like, oh, let me rewatch Metamorphosis, most likely they're going to stream it.

There's a disconnect there. If you watch the DVD of Metamorphosis, those special effects, visual effects, actually, are much, better than if you watch it on a streaming service that's just that's a reality i think they're great i think they're effective i and i think that they i think the show did a good job of earning a lot of the visual effects and not just putting them in there i think they you know they came from a story perspective which i is probably one of the reasons why the show lasts as long as it did i agree with you well said uh you know one of the things we were thinking about what did friends what did relative significant others think about this episode or maybe you know the first two episodes

i will tell you that i watched both shows with my friend rob the pilot and i think he was mesmerized he was just very intensely watching the show and then this one i found him playing in and out with my dog i noticed he was watching and then he was playing with blanche and then i go rob rob rob come on what are you doing and he's playing with blanche he was in and out he wasn't as interested perhaps because i think the spectacle the scope of the first episode was so big. So again, then we're going to this episode. And as you'll see, I think episodes, it's waves.

Sometimes you get a great episode. Sometimes you get a, you know, a mediocre episode. And sometimes occasionally you get a shitty episode. That's TV, especially when you're doing nowadays with only streaming of eight to ten episodes, which they're doing a lot. You have the whole hiatus for these writers to get eight great episodes. But now, but back then, 22 episodes. How do you like 22 great episodes? You do not. You do not. You don't. And what happens is it becomes a ratio, and this is my own pocket theory, that it's a one to four. And it doesn't mean that you're not trying to work hard or do good work. But from a production financial budget point of view, one out of every four things matters, one out of every four episodes, one out of every four scenes. Where are you going to spend your money? It's a one to four. Because you have 22 episodes. If you have 10 episodes, every single thing, see if you have a film every single scene so there is a bit of pacing and and and even for yourself

as an actor you kind of got to maybe not try to well i don't want to sound lazy but it's like you got to pace yourself a little bit if you're going to survive 22 episodes you were so innocent when i watch you then it was just like this young sweet boy he doesn't know that much tom was learning himself he didn't know that much and as the years went on then he's started directing and he started making the money and now he felt the power and now he's like gonna start boss no i'm kidding but you know it's it is crazy even rob said he's like god you look so young you look like you're 20 years old and i'm like uh yeah i guess i do i guess that means i'm old as food you uh you're i mean it's just it's that's what happens i was 26 i mean you

were 21. I mean, I don't know if we've said this already. I don't know if we said this before we started talking or not, but like when I watch these episodes now, I told you I can't watch them at night because then if I go to bed, all this stuff comes into my head and my dreams because of all this I had a dream about Kristen last night. Yes, after I watched it, I had a dream that we were making out. I was so excited and then so upset when I woke up and it wasn't real. Jesus, hope she's not listening to us. have to watch it like, you know, early in the day so I can forget about it.

But I, anyway, real quick, when I watch Clark Kent on Smallville, I'm like, I don't think that's me, but for some reason I know exactly what that guy's thinking. And it's like a really weird thing. But I don't, I'm not like, hey, check me out. I mean, with my sons, I'm like, who's that? And they're like, that's that's cool. At least they see a connection there. But yeah, it's, it's definitely an out of body, it's like a reverse out of body experience.

It is. It's crazy. Ryan, Ryan, hold it in your head. You have a favorite scene and don't say it yet. I do. He has a favorite scene. This is game number two. We did one on the pilot. Neither of us guessed it. So we're at zero zero still. I'm going to say your favorite scene. And don't say yes or no, because Tom will then chime in. You'll mention it. Tom, do you want to say it first? I think his favorite scene I'd like to think it's the Trojan horse scene With Lex and Clark And with Lex and Clark I feel like yeah I feel like that he would like What that meant for the longevity of the characters

Huh I'm gonna go I'm gonna go with I think the part of him like the barn stuff Where the father falls on the on the machinery and I'm not going to hold on I'm not saying it I'm not saying if that's the one it's either that one or the telescope scene or when he leaves the necklace at the very end he leaves the necklace for Lana Lang I got a little emotional she looks out no one's there who left this was probably Whitney but it wasn't that's my guess Ryan those are great scenes you almost had it I for me it was the one with where you you save John from falling on the plow. It is. I should have stayed with that one.

But those other ones you mentioned are great. But this one, it was like, it was a one action scene where I was actually like, oh shit, because like they actually got the slow motion falling and then they got Clark figuring it out in his head and like actually going to save him. It was like one of those like practical Superman.

The funny thing about that, though, so that we always called it in bullet time. Yeah. So here's my first. Here's the funny thing about that scene. When I watch it, Clark is moving faster than everybody, right? But he's also moving, but leisurely. He's like not really in a hurry.

So then I think about every time like Clark, every time Clark super speeds from like across the town, is he sort of jogging? You'd like to think he's going as fast as he can. But he doesn't have to go that fast. He's just like, I'll get, I'm going to get, they're just as fast. It gets better. They get better at that effect. They certainly get better and it works better as the season goes. Well, you're probably figuring it out and like it's, it's

hard when, when like the director like has the visual effect in his head and he's like telling you what to do. Like he's got the whole thing in his head and it's hard to articulate and like for you to understand like what exactly the process is. But I loved it. I thought it was really fun. All right. So we're still zero zero. Did you have any say and taking your shirt off? Was that your choice or was that the producer's choice? Do you fight them on that? Just curious.

Thanks, man. Wait, that might be my friend John for some reason. Did you hear the question? Somebody, I didn't hear if it was for you or for me about. It was for you. It was like, it was me, by the way. It was my voice. My question is, my question was, did you have any say in whether you take your shirt off

or did you ever fight it? Did you ever say, now I'm not taking it off? Yes, so it's, at the end of the day, it is the actor's choice because it's the actor's body. That's the legal stance.

Early on, there were some scenes where Clark didn't have his shirt on, and I remember having very constructive conversations being like, well, why has his shirt off? And then being like, well, you know, he just woke up.

And I'm like, I don't think Clark sleeps naked. I think he sleeps with it. You know, like, honestly, like, you had to really earn that. Right. You know, like, okay, we're at the beach. We're going swimming.

Okay, my shirt's off. I did it. But if it's just a, let me pull this on to give some body candy. No, because Clark wouldn't be that way. Whereas, and you can probably speak more to this, I feel like Lex would have used that to his advantage at certain emotional situations. He would want to make some uncomfortable by being naked. Right.

Yeah, I agree with that. What are you going to say, Ryan? Nothing. You're going to say anything? Do you remember the, I remember these first, this first year, maybe two years, the days were so long, like they were, they would work us 14 hours a day. They, I mean, especially you, back to you, but these weren't like 12 hour days or a 10, 10, these were 14 hour days

we would work some weekends it was raining it was pouring the old man was snoring but you know do you remember those long days can you do you remember those I do and I did make a note that one of the last scenes of the show is Clark leaves the necklace and looks from afar

that Lana finds it and it's a long shot of him you know it's a profile he backs up two steps turns and sort of walks down this dark path I remember that we shot that while the sun was about to come up. That's how long we were there all day. And I remember, I remember just doing it because, as far as I knew,

that's what you did. Years later, you realized that could have been anybody. That didn't need to be me. And I don't mean to sound lazy, but you start to learn these things like the stunts and stuff where you can maybe find a way to sustain your creative energy a little bit by not being so exhausted.

But yeah, the days were very long, but I will say this, because we did that, I think the show was good. Would I do it again? Probably not. But a lot of other shows now, I can see where they cut corners for shots so that the actors don't have to be there all day. And to be honest, the show wouldn't have been what it was if we didn't do it the way we did. And folks, this is something to think about. We shot on film. Yeah.

till the end of the show through season seven we shot the entire one hour show on film no shows do that now no shows these are all shot digitally and they all look great but we were shot on film so it was much more expensive it took more time to get things done to get things right and you know they would they would the film uh which is not light and it has to be done with the film would actually be taken to the airport, put on a plane, and flown to Los Angeles. Oh, yeah. And then when you go digitally, it's a file that gets set. Right. Like, it's, it's, uh, and the makeup was different. I'm sure, like, even with your head, like, we went from film to digital.

I mean, we could do a whole podcast just about that, but, um, one thing that I, I want to make sure that we don't pass up because I think it's important. And I want someone, I'd like someone who's listening to this to answer this question for me. In this episode, Clark talks to his dad about how he was floating above his bed in a dream thinking about Lana. And Jonathan says something, well, once you start to find the laws of gravity, you know, we're not in uncharted territory. To my knowledge, that never comes up again ever in the series. And I, or if it does, I don't remember it. I'd like someone to please take the time to let me know when,

because it's kind of bothering me a little bit. I like it. Guys, help Tom out, please. Listen, we hope you enjoyed this episode. I hope you're excited to dive in all things small, though. We've got a long year to go. Hopefully a couple of years. If you guys will join us, if you guys will, again, follow us, our handles,

Talkville podcast on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube, Talkville Pod on the Twitter, write reviews, write reviews. Tell us what you think. Start chats. Maybe we'll chime in occasionally. We've got a lot of good stuff going on. We're going to get a store, hopefully soon. We're going to have the Patreon set up. I think it's also, and this might be wrong, but I'd like to encourage anyone who's interested to do so is sort of get ahead of us a little bit in the episodes so that we can address your questions and fun comments while we do this because we're doing this. We're already doing it. So, you know, if you want to make comments about the pilot, well, we've already done that podcast. Yeah. But you know what? If it's a good

enough question, we'll revisit it. So leave a message. If it's a good enough question, we'll revisit a question from a past episode that maybe we didn't answer that maybe you're curious about. Now we can take the discussion online. Let us know your thoughts on the episode over on our socials, which I just gave you, Talkville Podcast or Talkville Pod on the Twitter. And if you want to let us know your thoughts on the episodes, leave a voicemail. And those, please don't make those longer than 20 to 30 seconds or I'll throw up on myself. 213, 538, 2883. That's 213, 538, 288, 2883.

This is a joy. I'm having more fun than I thought. It's nice to have Ryan here. It's nice to hear his perspective coming from someone who had never watched the show, even when he was younger. and coming from our perspectives of guys that did this show and now we're reflecting and it's amusing, it's fun,

it's different. We're going to try and get some guest stars on here as well and we just wanted to take off these take off with these first few episodes to sort of kind of feel it out and see how we're doing. So, Ryan, tell us what you think, tell us what you'd like to hear, tell us what you like to see more of.

It's all a learning curve. Anything else, Tom? No, I mean, I obviously, I made some notes, and there's, I mean, I've tons of stuff to talk about. But at the same time, we got to, you know, you can't just talk about how I learned how to use a flashlight when it comes to the camera lens in that scene that Ryan likes. Oh, yeah.

Tell us about that real quick. Well, it's a scene where, you know, our bug boy is up in the rafters. John Schneider pulls out a flashlight, right? And he kind of goes like this, and Clark Grudge the flashlight. I remember it took about four or five takes for them to communicate or for me to understand that, like, how to use a flashlight when it comes to the camera lens. You can't point it into the lens.

And then you work with a guy like Glenn Winter. He's like, I know that it's an emotional scene, but can you just find the way to go across the camera lens a little bit? There's like a whole art to like acting with flashlights. Right. You want to see that flare. You want to see that light go past the lens. You know, you want to.

I don't think there's an acting class where they use flashlights. You know, acting for camera with flashlights. But things like that, I have a million of those stories on every episode about, especially at the very beginning of me learning these things for the first time. Like, you probably knew that stuff because you were like an actual actor. I was just the guy who got the role trying to figure it out. So there's a lot of those things. That's interesting, though. And I felt like you probably learned a lot from everybody.

You were always like, you know, you were just. Dude, I really believe the best thing I had going for me was. Somehow, and I remember pulling in the first day into the lot, I remember, and Tucky, remember, and Tucky, remember Tucky. I love Tucky, yeah. He was going like this, and, you know, here I am pulling into this parking spot for the first of my life. I have the number one parking spot. And I remember thinking like, yo, dog, I don't know if it was yo dog, but it was like, hey, Tom, you better learn real quick what's going on here. because you don't know anything right now.

And I just remember with you or John or anybody, camera, I just remember just knowing I had to learn. And I thank God, because I know this thought it was the case. I know some actors who came in as guest stars and had it all figured out. And they wouldn't listen to things. So I don't know, I'm babbling on a little bit. No, you absorbed a lot. You absorbed a lot, especially early on,

which gave you the tools to continue, you know, acting and all this. Do you look back and do you ever go, God, I miss, I miss that guy. I miss being young. I miss being 21, 25. Do you miss your 20s? Do you miss? Oh, I didn't. I didn't have my 20s.

Well, you had. Yeah, I guess you didn't. I guess you did. I mean, I know that's a whole other thing that we can talk about on your other podcast, but, like, I don't miss those days at all. It's a slippery slope of like, would you have done something differently? Well, the show did pretty well. If I had changed anything, maybe it wouldn't work. But no, my life is, I am so happy right now.

Like I would not change what I have at this moment to go do that again. I would. I know you should. People always say that. If I could go back, I wouldn't do a thing. If I can go back, I would do a lot of things differently. I really would. I really would do a lot of things differently.

I don't have to express those things now to you, but I would like to do a few things differently. I would have chosen. I probably there's, I probably, yeah, things that probably don't even reflect Smallville or, or, well, I mean, there's so many things.

But, you know, with that scene that we were talking about earlier where you, in the barn where you're confronting Lana, there's a point where you do turn to the trophy case. And I'm like, you know, I'm like,

Lex doesn't a little bit of a bald guy. Lex looks like a guy who might be going bald and shaved the rest of his hair off. Like, it just wasn't, it hadn't been figured out. Did you notice that, Ryan? No, I didn't notice that. Bryce, make sure you're on top of the Bryce is our lovely producer.

Also produces inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. My other podcast, which you can listen to. Great guests like Tom Willing are on there. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Write a review. I appreciate your love and do that. We have so far two episodes. It looks like we have five saves.

Clark has saved five people through two episodes. And three people have died that I, I believe Lana Lang's parents with the meteor and I believe Greg Bug Boy died and those bugs went out and that was his death. So Bryce, if I'm wrong about the saves or deaths, maybe tally him up for next time and we'll continue this. How many people do you think you saved throughout 10 years? Would you say probably 100? More? I would have to, I would bet it's more than 100, but in a weird way, just like Clark, I didn't keep track.

If you know what I mean. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I, I, it might be fun to figure out, like, how many times did I save one person? Like, who is the one person I saved the most? Was it Oana? Was it Lex?

Was it my... I wonder who I saved the most. Ooh, that's a tough one. I'd say you probably saved Lex or Lana the most. You know, like... I mean, you saved me many times. Remember the car almost hits me in an episode. It comes right, and you crash through the middle of it.

you just block yourself. So many things were, you know, yeah, how many times was Lex hit in the head? We'll get into that. You know what? Let's start a tally. Real quick, that was pretty funny. I do remember you being like,

I remember you like in an attempt to stand up for your character being like, come on. All this stuff happens. I finally get it. And you just hit me in the head and I figured everything. I didn't take notes. I didn't like keep a file where I could reference. There's no video.

record is in my home. Yeah, I agree with you. I remember, it wasn't this episode, it wasn't this episode, but soon after, probably like 10 episodes in, we're in freezing December weather, Vancouver, and it's just, it's three in the morning. And I have, and I am exhausted. And I'm just going, and I'm sitting there, and all of a sudden, it was like some crazy person.

I went, oh my God. We've got like six more fucking years of this. And the hall crew just started laughing because it was just pouring and cold and they had heaters on. And I'm like, oh my God, this is what I'm going to be doing for. I mean, you never know. I mean, it was a lot of fun too. But on that note, and you can cut this as well, but I remember like there would be times where I'd be so exhausted and so tired. And you'd come in and you'd be like, hey, man, you're all right.

I'm like, I'm just tired. You're like, that's cool, man. Hey, let's do this. I got you. You know, let's run line. And you'd get me going. cut to me finding you

you know exhausted and charred I'd be like you get a kick out of it well because I'd be like yeah you must be exhausted you heard two days this week like I would just

I'd be like well you must be really tired you know you know we should do lastly we should have a a rating system of the episodes oh like what we thought like honestly like for movies

for horror movies I have a thing called the rose and bomb and it's like three roses is the best two roses one rose in the middle is a heater it's nothing it's like it's not good not bad just right in the middle and then one bomb right then one bomb two bomb three bomb and you could also have half so i'm going to give the pilot i would say the pilot was a uh a three rose to me that was a great pilot and i'm going to say that this episode was a half a rose it's just funny hearing you say this

but I Tom I think the pilot is four rows even though it's not allowed only because like that's that pilot is awesome and that's a three rows watchable still so three but you know I think this episode half to a one

okay that's interesting there's some character development but I don't know if this is an episode that like I I would go back and rewatch. Correct. You know what I mean? Ryan, how about you? What's the pilot?

Pilot, top, whatever that. Three rose? I'll give this one to 1.5. This is episode 2, 1.5. One and a half roses? You gave it more than we did. Yeah. Well, because this is number two for me.

We'll probably get like hundreds of episodes deep and I'll look back and I'll go, man, that was a pile of shit. But for now, but for now, I enjoyed it. like season seven episode four right will be like can we go back to that second episode metamorphosis and i'd like to change my rose uh guys this has been a real treat for us tom anything left to say no i mean this is fun i could do this all day with you um i i know that at some point we just can't keep talking about it but we got plenty of time we got the next episode yeah the next episode my friends is hothead no heat heat heat isn't it

Heat, heat's the next one. We're looking at up. I know, I think Hothead's four, isn't it? It says three. Three is Hothead? Yes. It's not called Heat? No, that was a Michael Man.

Oh, Heat is yours later. Oh, yeah. So this third episode is called Hothead. Please watch it. Have your questions. Call the number that I gave you, the 213. By the way, this is a big episode, I think. I'd like to make people aware if you forgot.

We were filming this episode when 9-11 happened. I don't know how many days we were into the episode, but I specifically remember going to the football field on the day of 9-11. And it was, I mean, you know what to think at the time. But there was, you know, there's a thing about the aftermath of 9-11 and what this show is about, which is by a hero, I think there's parallels. and, you know, maybe I'd like to hear what some people think about that as well. Yeah, that sounds good.

We appreciate you listening and tuning in and writing reviews. Have some questions lined up. You know the number. It's right there in front of you. Or you can rewind. Write a review. Tell us what you think. Spread the word.

Join us. Make sure you watch Hothead. We'll talk about it. I can't wait to talk to you guys again. Tom, good seeing you, my man. Good to see you. Ryan. Great seeing you, buddy.

Good see you, too. Thank you, Ryan. all right thank you guys we'll talk to you guys next time on talkville don't think we forgot the big shoutouts to our top tier patrons we have a lovable patron family if you want to join patreon and give back to the podcast and keep it going go to patreon.com slash talkville and now for the uh the shoutouts to our top tier patrons thank you guys niki g lean p rise c jean janine r san diego m santiago m Suzanne B. Leah S. Corey M. By the way, happy 12th anniversary, bud. Tom T. Mark A. A.J. underscore 800. Sophia M. Betsy D. Liliana A. We keep messing that name up, but that's okay.

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Teresa, Justin, S. Eric W. Tom and Juan V. Tony V. Veronica D. Rodolfo J. and Jason W. thank you guys so much we love you couldn't do it without you we're really excited about talkville we'll see you next week hi i'm joe i'm joe salci hi host of the stacking benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax advantage retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody.

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