Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - RON PERLMAN: Sons of Anarchy Lessons, Weinstein Run-ins & The Art of DGAF

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Ron Perlman (Hellboy, Sons of Anarchy) joins us for an unfiltered and captivating conversation about authenticity, creative rebellion, and the madness of Hollywood. Ron opens up about calling out powerful figures, feuding with politicians, and why he once sullied himself before shaking Harvey Weinstein’s. He talks about the genius of Bob Dylan and Marlon Brando, the magic of true artistry, and how therapy and age freed him from caring what others think. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/inside and get on your way to being your best self __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Kevin Harlan here. Tomorrow night, 5.30 Eastern, the NBA on Prime crew is back as the Emirates NBA action heats up from Vegas for a thrilling semifinals doubleheader. Then on Tuesday night, December 16th, at 8.30 Eastern, the last two teams standing will square off in the championship game for a shot of the cup, bragging rights, and a place in NBA history. And Prime is your exclusive home for it all. Not a prime member? Sign up for a free 30-day trial to get started to day. Restrictions apply. See Amazon.com slash Amazon Prime for details. Don't miss the thrilling conclusion of the Emirates NBA Cup live from Las Vegas, starting

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and a 2026 holiday caravan stop. Learn more at Canada's Wonderland.com. You're listening to Inside of You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Ryan Tejas is here. I'm here still. Thank you guys for listening. Honestly, I just think. think it's terrific that people listen to this podcast. Listen to me. I honestly thought no one would

ever listen. And there's some people that listen. There's a lot of people that don't listen, but there's people that do listen. And I love those people. I mean, statistically, most people don't listen to this podcast. Yes, thank you. But a good number do and they return and they come back and they love it. Yes. And if you're here for Ron Perlman, I thank you. I love Ron. And if you don't want to have anything to do with me, that's fine. Just listen and then you can go away. But if you want to stick around and support the podcast, I appreciate it. If you like the interview I'm asking you to subscribe and and listen but that's up to you. If you want to follow me Instagram at the Michael Rosenbaum the link trees there with the cameos and all sorts

of fun stuff cons my puppy product Rosie's puppy fresh breath which is on Amazon and my fart book the talented farter it's a sound book and it's great it's great for the holiday so pick one up and and when I see you I'll sign it I'll just sign it just carry one with you wherever you go and if we happen to bump in each other I will sign it. What else can I tell you the inside of you online store has tons of stuff also for the holidays autograph smallville ship keys and lunch boxes but for me and tom what else is to have it just a smorgas board of just great merch so go to the inside of you online store and uh yeah i appreciate it anything else ryan uh on the topic of stores uh the talkfield store there's stuff and there there has been a lot of stuff that has been the company that's distributing stuff they got bought by somebody else

and they're having trouble getting stuff out so I've been responding to as many people as I can but that is what's up if you're missing your thing yeah they're gonna come it will come we're getting it sorted I'm talking to a guy named Hector okay Hector I'm sure knows what he's talking about and it's gonna happen guys

okay I have responded to the people that I can and everyone seems to be in good spirits they just want their yeah they're cool They want their stuff, man. There's cool stuff there. I want my stuff. I haven't got my luggage back from Amsterdam.

Really? Yes. What? Yeah, it's already over a day and almost a day and a half now or something. I don't talk about the time I lost my luggage for like a month. I'm pissed because I have like meds and stuff in there. It's not good. Yeah.

I didn't have meds. It's not good. Anyway, listen, thank you for listening. If you want to join Patreon to support this podcast because we need your help, we need your love. Patreon really supports this podcast. Give so much back. I love every. one of you out there that have supported this podcast and continue to support it after all these

years. It means the world to me. I don't know what else to say, but I think it helps a lot of people and it helps me and you help me. So patreon.com slash inside of you. And I love Ron Perlman. And if you can hear the leaf blower in the back, that's okay because it will go away during the interview. And I will apologize. I'm going to give you, I'm going to preface this. This is kind of fitting, actually, yes. Yes. The interview is great. But the close up, uh, we had a, an outage and there's no power. It came back on. Well, anyway, Ron's footage of the close-up was not great. So we use a wide shot and we tighten in and so for the first half. But the audio is all good. And I mean, the other thing, the audio, the generator is right behind where

you sit. Right. It came on and yeah, it remained on. And you guys continued. But that was just a weird, weird moment. It just like all the powers went out. Yeah. So look, the interview is great. but it's not the best quality, I would say. No. Is this sound not good? Have you listened to it? I'm sure it's great. I'm sure we did what we could with it.

Yeah, I'm sure it's great. Tim's great. Tim, our editor now, I love you, Tim. You're kicking ass. I appreciate it. Let's just get into it. I think you're going to like this interview. Ron's a great guy.

He's a tell it as it is kind of guy. And I love that about him. And he's funny and he's charming and he's a great actor. And let's just do it. Let's get inside of Ron Proman. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

So you got a good voice, too. You got like that chill. I got a tequila cigarous voice. It's a good way to start. It's a first thing you say. It's the first thing I do in the morning. What's a tequila cigar? Tequila slash cigar voice.

Oh, so you have tequila in the morning? If I can. Really just like one shot? No, no. I mean, no. No, I don't want to give you the wrong impression. But if I'm playing golf, then I'll have a margarita for the front nine and another one for the back night.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It just, it helps in, you know, just caring less about what a shitty golfer I am. So you're kind of a, you know, you voice your opinion. I've always been one of those guys that what you see is what you get. You don't like something. You let people know. Has that got you in any trouble? Yes.

Look, what's the most trouble you've gotten? Well, aside from the fact I haven't worked in six years, that's... That's not true at all. That's not true. It's never, it's gotten me into what John, what's his name, would say, good trouble. One of my proudest Twitter moments in my... in my abbreviated Twitter career was when Donald Trump Jr. came after me.

Oh, yeah. And then I came right back after him and then he blocked me. The best. That was good. And then there was some sort of an announcement about a soccer league that Trump had something to do with

and this was, I think, in his first term. And I made some sort of a snide comment And Matt Gates came after me. Do you love when they come after you? Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's a lift. This was good because I was at like 735,000 followers.

By the time I got finished with Matt Gates, which was 10 o'clock that same night, I was up to a million two. This was a really good exchange. I know why you do it now. But he said for a guy who, he said for a guy who, who makes a living playing assholes on television, you know, gun runners, and, you know, wanted to talk about the hypocrisy of leaning left, you know,

but playing violent, you know, drug-infested motherfuckers. You know, he came to me with his talking points, and so I said, yes, Matt, it is true. I do play a lot of assholes on television, but let me ask you, what does it like to actually be one? And that was the beginning of, that was it like 10 o'clock in the morning. And we did this till 7.30 at night, back and forth.

You just kept going. Did your wife try to stop you? No, no, no. She knows better than to try to stop me. I mean, you know, she makes a feeble attempt every now again. Ronnie, Ronnie. But I keep going. But anyway, this was so much fun.

And by 7.30, I used that one of my favorite lines in The Hustler, which is one of my favorite movies. Oh, yeah. where I said to him, Matt, I beat you all day. I'm going to beat you all night. This is getting old. I'm out. An hour and a half later, Ted Cruz comes after me on Twitter. What?

Because I stop engaging with Matt Gates. So Ted Cruz now wants to climb out. And I now am realizing that these guys are addicted to any kind of notoriety. Confrontation. Mostly, I mean, if. They actually like negative shit more than they like positive shit because it gets more clicks and, you know. I mean, they're so, they're so fucking beholden to maintaining

the low lives of the world following them and, you know, and like enabling them. Right. And so the more they can get into, they can tangle and look bad doing it, the happier they are, which is sick, man. It's like so fucking counterintuitive. But the thing, I'll end with this. Ted Cruz challenged me to a wrestling match with Jim Jordan.

He didn't even challenge me to wrestle him. He challenged me to wrestle a friend of his who didn't even know who was being spoken about. And I said, okay, I'll do it. You name the time and the place. It's $50,000 to the winner. And everything that I win, which I will, is going to go. go to Black Lives Matter, which is your charity? And that was the end of that conversation.

Did you really, this is probably bullshit. Did you really piss on your hand before shaking Weinstein's? Yeah, that was, that was why Donald Trump Jr. came after me. His response to my, when I told that little anecdote on Twitter, which is a true fucking story, his response to me was, here you had a chance. to save all of these women from whatever he did to them. And the only thing you could come up with was peeing on your hand. I think it's pretty genius.

Well, the way he fucking talked to me and treated me, like he said, you make sure if you're going to come to my event, you make sure you shake my hand, Ron. And I said, sure, Harvey, of course. After I piss on it. Well, I mean, I called him up because I wanted to come. he was at the can film festival and there were the biggest event at the can film festival has been for the last 25 30 years the amphora event it was started by elton john elizabeth taylor and harvey winstein and it raises a tremendous amount of money for aids and you know

yeah and uh i gave like somebody gave me his his number he has an office at can and i called him up to get tickets and he said to me wait a minute and the only reason he returned turned my call us because he thought I was the other Ron Paroleman. You know, the one from Revlon, the guy who invented the hostile takeover. These guys hang around in groups. I mean, you can't make this shit up, man. So anyway, don't interrupt me, okay, Michael. Ever.

So anyway, he calls me back. He says, hello, Ron. What can I do for you? And I go, hey, Harvey, thanks for calling me back, man. I really didn't expect this. Listen, I was trying to get a table at the M-Far dinner tonight. And so, you know, I thought I'd give you a call and see if there was any, you know, a way I could sort of get in. I'm a big believer in the cause and donate all the time to it.

And he says, wait a minute, is this Ron Perlman the actor? Yeah. He goes, I'm not in the fucking ticket business, Ron. and i go well it's funny because since i left the message for you this morning i've been invited to sit at tarak ben-a-mar's table so i'll be there he says oh you're coming i said yeah he said well make sure you shake my hand out of respect i said sure will harvey and we get out of the limo and there's a receiving line elizabeth taylor elton john shirley bassy you know and fucking you know the star set of the elite was it a job of the hut and and i said to my friends i said i'll

be right back and i went went to the men's room i peed all over my hand i went on the receiving line i shook his hand i said harvey had a respect just like you requested he goes thank you round you're a gent too what a genius you know you know what that move was for that was for you that wasn't for anybody else really it was for you what do you mean i mean it was for everybody but at the same time like you like this guy kind of disrespected you you didn't really like this guy you thought you know what i'm just gonna piss him my hand i'm gonna shake his hand well what a fucking dick wad yeah make sure you shake my hand who says that well of course he says that you you fucking imperial imperious didler you

Dirk Diggler That's what you are Hey All right listen So let's get into this Fucking interrupting me No You're done with your story

What is it with this guy What is it? You know How did you get your own show I love that you're lying in bed Stoned with your wife Last night And she says she knows me

We're not supposed to mention The fact that I was stoned Okay You weren't stone She was stoned Yeah There was some stoning In the household

Right I get stoned I'm not gonna tell you Everybody must get Stone. Everybody must get stoned. Follow Bobby Dillon. You love Bob Dylan? I love Bob Dylan. He's, he's like Zeus for me. Favorite song? You know, it's really, it's hard. It's hard. But it's a tie between, it's a hard rain going to fall. It's a hard rain. And it's all right, Ma. Advertising, Jose Khan, you into thinking you're the one, that can do what's never been done, that can win what's never been won. But meantime life goes on all around. All around. So anyway, I'm fascinated with genius, as all artists are. And I'm a student of everyone who's creative.

Like, what's your fucking, tell me, you know, especially people who I know are occupying a space that I can't even dream up, much less, you know, execute. And I'm fat. And so, you know, when you get a shot, And most of them are very enigmatic. Most of them are very kind of weird at describing their genius. They don't want to describe it. They're reticent.

You know, the three most reticent people who were all geniuses of my generation were Dylan, Orson Wells, and Miles Davis. And they all, you know, you ask Dylan like, you know, what does it feel like to be the spokesman of a generation? He goes, no, no, man, I'm just a song and dance man. And he knows he's not. he knows he knows he's a fucking Nobel laureate you know but but he he can't own it he won't own it and stuff so he's doing an interview this is my my favorite interview i've ever seen

with a with a fan somebody who inspires so much inspirational love out of me 60 minutes and the guy says to him something about um you know his writing process And he says, can you still write like you used to? He said, yeah, no, I used to, but I can't anymore. He said, I don't know how those songs were written. And then he quoted himself saying darkness at the break of noon, shadows even the silver spoon, the handmade blade, the tors balloon, eclipses both the sun and moon, to understand you know too soon. There is no sense in trying.

He said, I don't know how that got written. Isn't that something? He's the author of that. Doesn't know how he wrote it? He says it was a magical thing. Divine intervention. It was divine intervention. And, wow.

Yeah. Those are the kind of things that make life worth living. You know, it's like. Yeah. Tapping to someone else is brilliant. He's getting a brief glimpse into somebody who's guarding. their genius as effectively as Dylan has. I wonder if those people are really happy, those true geniuses, those people who live

with such, you know, people just are always enamored by them and just, you know, in awe. It's just like the pressure, I guess, you have on you from a young, you know, from a younger age and just I have to continue this. I have to continue this brilliance. I have to put more pressure on myself. And, you know that DB Penny Baker movie, don't look back. Yep. The last shot in the film is he's just played the Albert Hall in London

and the Beatles who were in the audience, everybody was in the audience. And he was at the top of the top of his game. He was at the top of his acoustic, you know, little moment. Yeah. And he's in the limo and Albert Grossman, his manager, sitting next to him and he's just they've just driven away from all these fans who aren't banging on the window and yelling his name and stuff and he's like getting out by the skin of his teeth and he lights up a cigarette and he goes I think we really did something here

and it was just the fact that he could take in that he that he had an impact that he moved people yeah and that he in turn was moved that's a moment i mean i you know i i feel like when you're driven with that kind of genius you're only going to get moments of happiness because you're too driven you're too driven to to to live in a reward oriented reality you know yeah i think that reward was almost for for him like i did something to have an impact on people like that was a moment where i was you're aware because normally you know you do your movies your shows you're this and has an impact on people and you see it and people come up to you and they you know cry or they're like hey it meant so much but those moments they're not they're

few and far between and I think you know to be able to sit back and say I had an impact on people that's it's profound right it's it's I think it's what we all need as human beings it's like what makes us the happy I can count on two fingers the time I finished the project and had that kind self-satisfaction yeah isn't that something yeah it's always like oh man i wish i had done this i wish i could i wish i'd have another shot at that scene i wish i had thought about spent more time thinking about that moment you know it's always like what what i might have done better and then okay what's next yeah very rarely am i you know capable of taking a moment and going wow that was exactly how I intended it to come out.

Very rare. Yeah, me too. I don't think it's happened many, many times in my life at all. But like, I think honestly, believe it or not, this podcast, it helps. I didn't realize the impact it has on people and mental health and just people's lives and sometimes seeing them at signs and them explaining to me how they were, you know, in a really dark place. And one of the episodes really helped them.

And then just seeing how honest. and pure it was it it hit me and it was shocking so I think that's true I think the older you get the more you can make an impact on other people's lives makes you feel better than having any kind of impact on your own life and like doing things for yourself and you know getting roles and being enamored or whatever but but you know they always say when you help someone else out and the cameras aren't rolling and you do it because it's um you know it's altruistic I think that's when I've been the happiest, when I've been able to help somebody and nobody else knows.

No one needs to know. It's a moment between us. Have you had any of those moments? Well, one of my other role models, who also lives on Mount Olympus next to Zeus is Sinatra. And he had a couple, you know, he was a complicated motherfucker. I mean, you know, he could be very, very kind of ruthless and very kind of short and curt and cut you the fuck off.

man if you if you crossed him but he was also as charitable as anybody who ever graced the the the entertainment industry and his thing was there is no act of charity other than the anonymous one the minute somebody knows you've done it it's no longer valuable yeah and he would go around you know find out somebody he hadn't seen or spoken to for 10 20 years we're having trouble And all of a sudden they'd wake up one day and their rent for the whole year was paid. There was a new car in their garage. He would do shit like that and never ever let anyone know it was him.

So I'm obsessed with giving back, but also giving back in a way that doesn't shine a light on, hey, look how good I am. Look how cool I am. Yeah, this hockey player, Mark Messier, he once said, he goes, you know who someone really is. when you see them doing, being kind or doing something when the cameras aren't rolling. But they don't have to be. They don't have to be. That's just the moment.

Do you still love acting as much as you used to? More. Why? I'm one of these guys that, you know, I'm obsessed with just getting better at it every day. And the only good thing about getting older is the best thing. Maybe the only good thing about getting older

is that you just don't give it. a fuck anymore about anything or anyone i mean i spent so much time you know obsessing over the impact i was having on my audience and almost engineering my trajectory to to to get the to get the approval of that that's gone because i'm an old man now and you're not old and with that has come this this kind of I don't get there all the time

but I get there now more than it was something that I've always long to you know my my heroes are the ones who are in a state of flow where you don't see the rehearsal you don't see them

regurgitating a line reading they gave and take two you just see them alive with blood flooring through it and you see it and you and they're alive and they're present and and they don't even fucking know what's going to come out next and it's just this you know riveting moment of humanity and you're that's what you strive to continue to strive to do that's i've just been wanting to get closer and closer and closer and have that happen more and more often and that's when i will be able to finally say okay yeah we can move on yeah it doesn't

yeah so the combination of i don't give a fuck what anybody thinks and i'm in a job and i'm in a job where it's only important what everybody else thinks yeah is kind of um it's given me a new lease on on on being an actor yeah i'm having so much fun i'm having more fun now acting than ever before do you put everything into a role do you never just i'll learn the lines i sort of got them let's do it or was it from hellboy to fucking sons of anarchy to romeo's bleeding to fucking don't look at what all these movies and shit do you put every ounce of you into these roles um i put as much i mean you you all you have your your your whole tool is is is you and you know the the supposition is is that all of the things live inside of you they're all in there

the serial killer you is in there the greatest lover in the world is in there the funniest motherfucker in the world is in there you know and we all end up being who who we are you know in society because of how we've been socialized and what are you know but you'll you become an actor um to well i became an actor to get right somewhere what i could never get right in life so when the cameras so you're playing a character and you're have a shot at at we have a greatest shot at being effective as that guy than you do as this guy and it becomes very kind of like an aphrodisi yeah and you want more and more to to turn me into somebody that I don't have to be me for a minute but I really have a shot at being

great at him you know I can relate to that I never wanted to be me I always needed an escape I was not popular in high school, never went to high school dance. And I finally did a play in high school. And after that, people were like, the popular kid was like, hey, you were good in that play last night. And then I immediately remember thinking, okay, not being me is good. You know what I mean? I just, that's how I felt. And so I felt that the only way I'm going to get attention, the only felt, in the beginning, it was.

It was all attention. I was just like, oh, my God, this is great. I can do something. And that could be very unhealthy, too, you know, thinking that, you know, I'm just going to play someone else. And that's, I'm hiding behind these characters. And the real me, no one wants to get to know. Were you, were you popular in high school? Among a very, very tiny little swath of guys.

Yes. But, but I wasn't, I wasn't a leader. I wasn't a leader. Yeah. me neither i wasn't later but um high school is where i did my very first play so high school who was it it was a french farce called thieves carnival that was the first play i ever did and i played the lead the number one lead being thrown into something having never acted before now i'm the lead so now i'm you know i'm carrying the fucking play that's a lot man and uh discovering

Holy shit. I'm discovering for the first time while I'm over in rehearsals, I found my community. I finally found a group of people who I could look at and go, I'm not the most fucked up person here. Everybody here is way more fucked up than me. This is my community. And then, so there's that part of it,

the recognition of the fact that you found your, you know. Your way. Your water level, you know. Then there's the trippiness of the discovery process of the four or five weeks of rehearsing where you're learning how to play the guy effectively and you're in this sort of like very, very, very creative kind of modality.

That's trippy. And that's, I didn't realize, holy shit, this is like, I know why guys do Rubik's cubes i know why guys climb mountains you know they this is your thing they're just looking for their thrill right and this is it and then the and then you get to the in high school it was four nights of performances Thursday friday saturday sunday and you get to the first performance and there's a thousand people out there because we did it in this we had this huge auditorium in george washington high school in new york and um the the footlights are so that you can't

see them. These footlights are blinding you. So you can only hear them and feel them. And you're doing this play and it's a comedy. And so I do something you respond. That's, you know, comedy is the best version of that. Yeah. And a minute or two into it, you realize, I am holding a thousand people in the palm of my hand. There's not a sound in the house except the one I'm making. And they're all waiting for me what I'm going to say or do next. And you go, what a power. I mean, I never imagined I would ever have that kind of power. But the only place it existed was when I was on stage giving a performance.

Kevin Harlan here. Tomorrow, the NBA on Prime Crew is back. as the Emirates NBA knockout rounds continue. The action heads to Las Vegas tomorrow for a thrilling semifinals doubleheader. Four teams remain, but only two will move on. The last two teams standing will then go toe to toe Tuesday night, December 16th in the championship game. For a shot at the cup, bragging rights, and a place in NBA history. And Prime is your exclusive home for all the action.

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All right, sorry for the rest of this interview is a little bit sound in the back because our power went out, but I'm not losing this opportunity to have the wonderful Ron Perlman in the studio. So, Ron, we've gone dark twice now, and I thank you for sticking around. You know, I couldn't find my way out if I wanted to. Have you ever been embarrassed by a role? Oh, my God, yeah. You have?

I mean, you've done how many roles, hundreds. Yeah. What's the most you're ever embarrassed about? I'm not going to get into that. No? What about a role? That's, you know, because i've been embarrassed about roles yeah but that's first of all like a lot of people

come up to me and and and and want to talk about a movie that i was in it that i hated i hated the movie i hated me in it and and but they loved it and i'll start that's right me too i know and i'll start with my you know like i have to tell the truth i cannot tell a lie bullshit and i'll get into telling them and but they'll walk away with their head like shaking their head going what a fucking dick all i wanted to tell the guy was how much i liked the movie and he gives me this this this this recitation on what how wrong i am you're right and so i was just at that point i said what what what i think of me is none of my business you know wow what what it's no one you know it's like if you got a problem with something because it didn't

you know keep it to yourself yeah you're absolutely right because i've had fans come up and say hey i love this movie i go oh you were the one that saw that you know joking around and they're like i loved it me and my family we love that movie and i'm like oh my god so you just don't know right you know you're absolutely right is there something that you look back and you can say i'm really proud of this i'm really proud of this like those roles you could say like the roles that you just kind of go, hey, I'm really, I'm good with what I did there. I'm good with the project. Yeah. No, I have more than my fair show. One of my favorites is City of Lost Children. Thank you.

Brilliant movie. Thank you. Oh. And that was a movie that didn't turn out anything like I imagined it was going to, when I read it. And I was, I've been an asshole talking about that movie with certain people. And then I realized, who am I to fucking, you know step on their experience i know when i'm watching a movie and i'm just like blown away by it and i may be the only one of them i'm you know there's there's been a lot of movies over the last few years that i said that was my favorite movie the year and everybody says i walked out and i hated it so you know i don't want anybody to fucking ruin my my little wet dream you know yeah yeah but what do you think like if you have to name one like off the

top of your head just uh one that you're just like i just love playing this role um shoot i mean so many there there are I mean sons of anarchy yeah what a role

great role hell boy was a great role you know um I think the you know if I had to pick what I'm most proud of I had a production company for about five years

we made about 11 movies The first one we identified was ended up being the last one we made because it was fraught with problems. And we had to shut it down twice, which meant we lost. We had spent $700,000. And by shutting down, then coming back to startup again, that's just lost money. There's a term for it. Right. And we finally ended up.

By the way, no one has seen this movie. Nobody. Nobody has seen it. I mean, a small handful of people, but the fact that we kept coming back with bloody noses and, you know, I'm not even going to tell you how much of my own personal money I had to put into it because we would get to Thursday night, Friday is, is payroll day, and we're driving home in the car. My buddies would say, we don't have payroll for tomorrow. Oh, shit. You had to write a check. And luckily, I had been doing a TV show, so I had some cash.

But we were able to save this thing. And by the time we shot the last shot of that film, that was one of those few experiences where I went. You did it, man. You fucking did. You hung in there. You got the shit beat out of you. You had everybody telling you to quit, stop. You did it.

You made it. And it ended up turning out close to. how I first imagined it when I read it. That's amazing. It's amazing how the accomplishment is coming in life. But it's not because it was a commercial success because no one saw it. It was just a very like a personal thing where, you know, against all odds. Yeah, I had that too with, I directed a movie and it was the hardest thing I ever done.

I should never been the director and the lead actor and then I shot in Indiana. We had no money back for, um, what do they call it when you get um incentives no incentives nothing it was just like you know uh we had 17 days to shoot it and i remember we wrapped and the ad looked at me and said you really need to understand how difficult this is and how you accomplish this and she said it and i just started crying yeah i just felt like this visceral like it didn't matter in that moment whether it movie anybody saw it or this or that all that matter was that I accomplished something that I said I'm going to finish it and I did it and that meant and you were going through this whole thing

thinking that you were the only one and then this AG comes up to you and and you realize people were watching people were clocking yeah you know all the all this this this this this fucking huge hill we were climbing every day and that's what that's what triggered the release is like wow i thought i was all alone in this yeah yeah yeah that's an amazing feeling it really was one of the it was the best feeling remember i called my brother goes are you you fucking crying dude i go yeah man but i'm happy i'm happy we fucking made this movie man i i got through it and i did what i wanted to do and i just i'm so happy i don't think i've ever felt like that before you know have you ever worked with actors and what do you do when

you're working with an actor that's just not giving you what you need or just having a lot of problems or didn't prepare first of all probably not preparing will piss you off yeah but what do you do what do you do to get your performance to shine to be present you just imagine you know you're working opposite Gregory Peck. You like, you're like, you like transfer what that person is giving you into how Gregory Peck would have said it. And then you respond. That's really what you do. That's what, that's what you do.

Have you ever gotten upset? You can't let anybody fuck your performance of. You ever said, like, come on, learn your lines, man. I was directing, um, an ever. episode of a TV show I was doing and one of the key actors revealed without saying it that she hadn't read the script and I'm giving her a direction and she had this fucking blank look on her face and I'm going do you even know what I'm talking about and she took she kind of she was befuddled and bewildered by life. but this was like do you have any idea how many people would like to be you right now on this show with this opportunity with this writing how dare you and you know i didn't say any of that i said that to myself right but i wanted to say it but it was so disappointing that like are you kidding me you can be blase about the hardest fucking business in the world to make a living in you know so yeah i i i you don't like it who does gave it away what gave it away uh clay morrow uh well i mean what was your time

like on sons of anarchy was it um just a whirlwind was it uh are you very close with all the actors because i've had a lot of them on the show um was it difficult was it a fun role to play Did you really love the show? I loved the experience. I used to get speeding tickets going to work on that show. That's how much I couldn't wait to get there and hang out with those fellas. And those scenes in the chapel, we were all sitting around the table and plotting our next moves

and talking about pussy and the shit that bikers do and drugs and rock and roll, you know. the you know and yes i'm still very very close to almost all of them we see each other a lot we go to comic cons a lot uh together we hang out whenever you know we'll find out it you know we're all in the same town at the same time um and uh interestingly enough i found playing clay morrow to be as challenging as any role i've ever played because I'm doing all these roles earlier in my career where I'm covered in makeup

and I'm a monster or a creature and anything. I didn't have any problem with those because I understood their hearts. But with Clay Morrow, he had a ruthlessness and a violence to him. And I could not, I had nothing in my field of experience to understand what made him tick.

And I knew I was in danger of maybe looking a little inauthentic place. you know and there was a moment where i considered turning it down and then i had those two you know the angel and the devil with each other you know arguing with each other and uh you know the devil was saying don't do it ron don't do it don't stink up the joint and the angel was saying you fucking pussy man because that's what the angel said you i have a dark angel dark angels you call yourself a fucking man you're going to consider you know got not doing it because you're scared Yeah, fuck you.

So the Dark Angel won the argument. And I'm very happy because I ended up doing the show. I don't know if, I'm sure people have asked you all this all the time. You can just say, I don't want to talk about it. But I don't know if you liked him or not. Did you get along with Brando? Oh, I fucking loved him. You did?

We got off to a really rocky start. Really rocky start. But he was the reason I was there. I mean, he was the reason why, you know, I had sworn off doing all these prosthetic makeup jobs. And I hear, you got a shot at working with Marlon Brandeis, and I didn't give a fuck how much makeup I had to put on, how long it took just to be in his presence, just to study him. I mean, he's one of those guys I referred to earlier that is a true genius, but all he can do is belittle it because he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, he can't, everybody's an actor. We're all acting all the time. Bullshit, bullshit, you know the fucking difference.

You know the difference. You just, that's part of what genius is, is that, you know, you know that it's a very precious little secret. If you talk about it too much or you analyze it too much, it'll go away. I think maybe that's why Dylan and Brando always deflected. Yeah. Any kind of question they got about their process about how they do what they do. They deflected.

It's all they did. Was there one magical moment on the set? I never deflect, by the way. I'm happy to tell you everything because I'm a fucking journeyman. I'm just a guy trying to make a living. Yeah. Was there any magical moment or some conversation you had with him that you just go, I'm going to remember this forever? So the scene, I was only really in one sequence with him, which was scheduled to shoot one and a half days.

And it ended up shooting five and a half days because the whole movie was a cluster fuck. Right. And what he didn't know. We were on this platform together and conducting a trial because one of the community does something, you know, untoward. What he didn't know was that I was playing the Sayer of the Law, which is this beacon of justice in this community of man's animal. I was playing him blind, and I actually had them put lenses in my eyes, you know, the white, you know. milky lenses, that made you blind. Yeah.

So when we were in between shots and they were lighting, I didn't want to keep taking them out and putting them in. So I would just sit on the set waiting for them to get ready to start shooting again. And Brando always left the set and came back. And I was always in his way when he had to get to. He was 375 fucking pounds. I was always in his way because I didn't know he was coming. I'm blind.

And he's constantly always having to like, so at one point, on the very last day we're filming, we're almost, we got like two, three more shots to go. I feel these two hands grab my shoulders and I jump. And I go, ha! And I turn around and I'm blind. And I hear him say, holy shit, what is that in your eyes? No, we've been shooting the scene for five. and a half days. And I said,

what? He goes, wait a minute. Wait a minute. Are you playing him blind? I go, you're kidding, right? You're fucking kidding, right? He goes, holy shit,

you're playing him blind. You're playing justice blind. If I knew that I would have done everything differently. And he says to John Frank and I'm like John we got to start again and that was like and then he said to me

and I had had very few exchanges with him because I was like at that point I was like I'm not worthy if there was going to be a conversation I was going to shut it down because I was like I'm not worthy to talk to fucking Marlon Brando I'm just here to watch him

and then he said to me is it true that when I arrived you sent me like eight latin jazz albums i go yeah i was wondering if you ever got him because i never got i never you know i never got um any kind of like confirmation confirmation confirmation he goes confirmation i've been fucking dancing in my trailer for the last week and a half how come you don't come in and join me and then he starts talking about quest for fire oh yeah and then he starts talking about

name of the rose and he says do you know that every scene that they wanted to give to val kilmer i said to frank and i'ma give it to the quest for fire guy he's an actor this is brando talking to me oh my god after five days of me having nothing but one awkward trip on your dick kind of exchange you're about to rap and we're about to rap and so you know it turned out okay the kids stayed in the picture the kids what a great documentary huh the uh robert evans documentary holy shit um i i could i could honestly talk to you forever this is this has been awesome i mean honestly welcome back yeah because i there's so much i want to talk to you about i mean your career and then we had the blackout here um but this is extraordinary is there anything coming up

that you're doing that i should know about besides the stuff we can't talk about No, we can talk about it because I'm going to launch it today. You're going to launch the studio? Yeah. Asylum. I'm about to announce a new movie studio called Asylum Studios where the inmates will be running it because it's got no executive level whatsoever. There are no executives. There are no guys who are just swinging their big dicks and taking a half a billion dollars a year and then telling you that they're, they're not.

don't have enough money to pay you there's none of that wow in fact this whole impulse came out of like i can't just i i just we we as artists are every artist that i know loves what he does so much he would do it for free if he had yes and every executive i know wouldn't pick up a fucking pencil if there wasn't something in it for him and and there's always been this gap but never has this gap done to the industry and the art form what these current cropper motherfuckers have done they've diminished it

they've made it small they've made it all home entertainment they've taken all the pageantry and the glory out of the marketing decides what makes movies they've introduced this fucking algorithm thing where their reverse engineering it's not about a good script anymore they're trying to figure

out what the audience wants and then pander to them that's not fucking art That's pandering. That's what politicians do. And so Asylum Studios will endeavor to create an environment for artists where they're ruling the roost, where they're calling their own shots. I love it. And they'll always have people, the great producers who will also be on the board of directors of Asylum Studios. you know like the brian grazers and those guys it's when they think of artists they think

we're all kids irresponsible fucking kids whereas we know how to bring in a movie on time and on budget but also get the director's vision on the screen yeah yeah so i'm just trying to i love that i love that there's people like you that are doing stuff like that i'm just trying to and it's in l.a i like that the studio's in l. it's like it seems like every studio's not in hollywood which is kind of ironic. Yeah. But that's amazing. Lastly, if you could go back, if someone said, hey, we're doing a reboot of this,

or we want to do another Hellboy, or we want to do another Sons of Anarchy, or we want to do, would you even consider any of that? Well, I wanted to do the Third Hellboy because it was designed to be a trilogy, and then a bunch of bullshit happened that prevented us from doing the third and final chapter. And I call it bullshit because the audience really designed. to get that third film, but we never got it made. And then I had a kind of an itch to take the very first thing I ever kind of did that was mainstream, was Beauty and the Beast. Yes.

And, you know, we did it on a small screen, and it was a show that, that at its foundation was very magical. You had a fantasy, Jonathan Swift kind of fantasy underground thing that was fraught with, with, with, with magic and alchemy and i thought that would be fucking cool if we could figure out a way to translate that into the big screen hell yeah but that never happened well this you're you said you're coming back i'm coming back anytime you want bro dude i love this uh you're so easy to talk to you i learned so much from it i just we'd be not even tapped into your your work and you're just like the people you know and you've met and uh your stories and uh i appreciate you for coming out here man Thanks for having me, Michael.

Awesome. Yeah, man. Hey, if you're loving inside of you and you want to keep the show going, I encourage you to check out our community at patreon.com slash inside of you. When you join, you get access to bonus episodes, early sneak peaks, and a real spot in our Inside of You community. It's really awesome. We're talking episode discussions, exclusive Q&As,

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Jesus! I wasn't counting your mother! It's a perfect holiday comedy about an imperfect family. You can use a screen, Ella. Starring Emma Mackey, Jeannie Lee Curtis, Camel Nanjani, Iowa Debrie with Albert Brooks and Woody Harrelson. You should do that every afternoon. Ella McKay. Next role with Vernon Davis, the transformative journeys of athletes, artists, and entrepreneurs.

We have very special guests. Ladies and gentlemen, the Bon Franklin. Whether it's the movies I'm doing. whether it's TV shows, just tap into the truth. That's what I bring to every project. Ladies and gentlemen, Isaac Keyes. People always ask, how do you make it to the NFL? How do you get into acting?

There's a story behind all of that. It's about whether you want to tell your story or not. Next role isn't about what's next. It's about why they do it. Next role with Vernon Davis. Follow and listen on your favorite platform. Thank you, Ron Perlman. I hope you guys enjoyed that because I really did.

I've been trying to get Ron here for a long time, and he finally came to the house, and then I said, we might have to do it over. And he's like, all right, just let me know. I was like, shit, man. I disappointed Ron. But I think it came together nicely. And I think he'll like it.

Yeah. I hope so. Just things that are out of our control. Yeah. There's nothing you can do sometimes in life. If you can't control it, if you can't change it, just, you know. Frighton, Perlman was here. Yeah, Ron Perlma was here.

A lot of great people. William H. Macy was sitting there. Keanu Reeves was sitting there. It'll be the following week. That one already happened. Yeah. A lot of good stuff.

Thanks for listening, guys. I appreciate it. We're going to give the shoutouts right now to the top-tier patrons who really give the show life. Nancy D. Little Lisa, Ucico, Brian H, Nico P, Rob, I, Jason W. Raj, C, Stacey, L. Jamal, F, Janelle, B, Mike Ldon, Supremant, 99, more, San Diego, M, Kendrick, F, Belinda, and Dave H. Belinda, and Dave Hull, Brad D, Ray Haada, Tab of the T, Tom, Man, Talia, M, David G, Betsy, D, Rian, and C, Michelle A, Jeremy, C, Mr. Mugine R, Monica, T, Mel, S, Eric, H, H, H, Amanda R. Kevin E. Jammin J. Leanne J. Luna R. Jules M. Jessica B. Frank B. Gent or Gentie. Randy S. Claudia. Rachel D. You got Rachel D. Nick W. Stephanie and Evan. Stefan. That's right. Charlie Ney. Oh, yeah. Don G. Jenny B. 76. N. G. Tracy. Keith B. Heather and Greg. G. Grether. Ben B. P.R.C. Sultan. Sultan. I just sent you another box, dude, because it came back to me. So I sent you more stuff in this.

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California I'm Michael Rosenbaum I'm Ryan Deyes yes a little shout to a little wave to the camera guys we love you and we can't do this podcast without you so thank you and come see me next week or whenever you want to I'll be here and hopefully

this podcast is helping you in some way it helps me and be good to yourself. I'll see you next week. See your on. Bye. Check out the podcast that inspired Taylor Sheridan's latest series. Landman.

There's a stretch of road in a royal rich region of West Texas. This region of West Texas, known as the Permian Basin, is in the midst of the biggest oil boom in history. This is a story of roughnecks, billionaire wildcatters and wannabe dreamers. my name is Christian Wallace from Texas Monthly and imperative entertainment this is boomtown boomtown follow and listen on your favorite platform