Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - SAM WITWER: SiFi Snafu on Being Human, Harmful TMZ Rumors, Kicked Out of Julliard, Lucasfilm Favors & Smallville

Episode Date: March 7, 2023

Sam Witwer (Being Human, Star Wars) joins us this week and we get deep. He opens up about reassessing his life and how people’s impression of him being a screw up molded his self image for years. Sam talks about how this industry encourages people to hide vulnerability and put up a front; and how some of the false fame that can come as a side effect of this can be harmful to your mental health. Whole lot of real life talk in this episode, but we also get into Sam’s love for (and career with) the Star Wars franchise, how some of the SiFi issues resolved on Being Human, and his experience in Season 8 of Smallville. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ Betterhelp: https://betterhelp.com/inside 👨‍🍳 Home Chef: https://homechef.com/inside 🟠 Discover: https://discvr.co/3Cnb1V8 🧼 Dove Men Plus Care __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou 👕 Inside Of You Merch: https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🤣 TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast 📘 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/ 🐦 Twitter: https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod 🌐 Website: https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Ooh. Yeah. Hey, how are you? Thanks for listening. Doing some late night DJs. Oh, yeah, man. Late night DJing with y'all.

I'm losing my mind. I'm losing my mind. But that's cool because these conversations help me get my mind together. Good save. Yeah, good save. We're going to dive into some stuff. And I like when guests open up. Sam Whitwer is here.

he was in smallville he's done so much for the star wars universe he's uh he's done a lot of stuff he was in the mist did you see the mist i never saw frank deribats the mist really good doesn't matter if you haven't seen it i've seen it uh so check that out but uh i want to say thank you for listening to the podcast if you're here for sam whitwer this is a little podcast uh we have loyal listeners and they listen because it's not celebrity shit we really get to the nitty gritty we talk about real stuff and I hope you'll enjoy it and you'll subscribe and tell your friends the handles are at inside you podcast on Instagram Facebook at inside you pod on the Twitter um the patron family go to patreon.com slash inside of you they do wonders for the for the podcast become a top tier

patron I'll send you boxes of stuff merch and notes and we do YouTube lives and I give you shoutouts and it's just a big family join inside of you uh inside of patreon.com slash inside of you and of course the inside of you online store great stuff there tons of smallville merch autographed check it out and also the talkville podcast you should check listen to that you can hear me and ryan talk about and tom welling talk about smallville yes but uh exciting stuff and um please write a review it really helps the show um and uh listen to the sponsors sometimes when i talk about sponsors because it's sponsors i care about and believe in and uh they help the show. So if you like a product, it only helps the show. And that's about it. I'll be in

Wales. I'll be in, I'll be in a lot of places. Just check out my Instagram, the Michael Rosenbaum. And let's just do it. Let's just freaking get into it. Let's get inside of Sam Whitwer. It's my point of you. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. You know, we finally have someone in here. No, we have someone in here who has a great voice. What are you talking about, Michael? You do so much voice.

I'm so jealous of your career. You do tons of voice. I don't do like, I mean, I did the flash and I've done some characters, but Star Wars, you're in that world, dude. that but did you know that that you know when i was uh when i was going to come on smallville i educated myself as to who you are and i remember feeling this this great sense of like god how do you get into voice over how do you do that it was lucky i talked about it last night i had the whole justice league over that i recorded with for years yeah all the cast members except of course kevin conroy because he passed but we were doing a celebration for him so the whole cast came over andrea romano

I was a big director who has directed since the 70s. I've only worked with her once. Brilliant. She's the sweetest woman. She's done everything. She worked with Kevin Conroy from the first time he did Batman through the end. I mean, she worked with him on hundreds and hundreds of episodes. And we had a really nice night and it was cool.

But was it a celebration for Kevin. So it was like social and hanging out. Yeah, it was just like 10 people. I ordered a bunch of food and we sat around. We watched an old episode. We watched Kevin's first episode that he ever did. And then we watched a little Justice League and we just talked and hung out and had some laughs and talked about Kevin. People brought pictures of Kevin.

It was really nice. But, you know, again, Kevin, what a voice he had. I mean. Now, I think I've never met the guy face to face, but I met him on Zoom over the lockdown. I think you may have even been part of this sort of virtual con. And he hung out a little bit longer to talk with me because it turns out we went to the same school. So I didn't know that He went to Juilliard.

He was a Juilliard guy So I didn't know that about him Yeah But wow that guy's terrific You know I went to see Mask of the Phantasm in the theater That movie that no one went to see in the theater But now is considered a classic Batman

Animated film Yeah Oh it was so good You loved it I loved it It was on Christmas Day The Me and my buddy went to see Mask of the Fantasim

Have you ever seen that Ryan? I think I saw it in the theater But it was a child who did not quite right get it didn't get it because i was i think it was too young for like the adult themes of brian's younger than we are right yeah nine's thirty four four yeah so he's 11 years younger than you and 16 years younger than me wow he's my child old and he has more facial hair than i can ever grow that's right it's an impressive beard yeah yeah and he's Hispanic half Hispanic right

this is true yeah i'm i'm a quarter Hispanic so a quarter what else are you a whole bunch of like europeanasi jew yeah that's So I am. I don't know what that means. Yeah. Everything is in Europe. And then like 25% of my genes says, you know, I did the DNA test and stuff. I got 25% of my genes are from Spain.

But, you know, what's cool about, you know, you came in the house. And unlike many who come into my house, are like, well, I got a lot of toys and stuff. Do you? No. But you do. Oh, yes. You have a, your place is filled with memorabilia. Same type of stuff, except you have way more.

signed stuff, which makes me now go, I need to take advantage of when I bump into people. If you are a fan of someone's and you see them at cons all the time, bring something if you want. Just say, hey, would you mind sign in my evil dead poster? Look at that. But their thing is, is I think you have a way of saying that where they would just go, well, yeah. Whereas I think I would ask for it.

Hey, would you mind? No. But you ever went, hey, hey, I got an evil dead poster. Bruce, can you sign it? Well, I always do, like, if I'm working with someone, I worked with Bruce, you know, Tom Holland and I became friends who directed Fright Night. Jason Patrick from Lost Boys is a buddy of mine. I played hockey with Kiefer. Oliver Hudson's dad is Kurt Russell.

He said, you want me to get him signed? They're like, they're easy ins. So I'll be like, yeah. I'm like, so I don't feel too weird. Sometimes I feel weird. I won't get him to the Chevy Chase story. Oh, God. Oh, my God.

Don't do it. Do you tell you about it? Oh, no. Chevy Chase? Yeah, I heard about it. Oh, boy. Oh, no. It was, it made me sound.

I mean, I'm already imagining what it is. He was one of my heroes, and it just wasn't a pleasant experience. And I had met him before, and I was just like, but he's older. And I don't know. I just was expecting, like, you know, everybody always said things. Like, you know, he's not that nice. He's not that. I'm like, no, Chevy's great.

I love Chevy. He's a legend. I defended him. And then all of a sudden, I saw the dark side. The dark side. But, you know, but, you know, he's older and he's got some issues. So I don't, I don't hold it against him. Maybe he was having a bad day.

Right, Ryan? it's possible it's possible yeah uh really quick to steer towards sign memorabilia yes up there you have the thing poster i don't know if you have it on camera but he's got the poster from the movie the thing yes and john carpenters john carpenters the thing just still it's one of the most shockingly great movies oh man and that poster was done overnight by drew struzen that piece of art right there overnight he did in 24 hours because they needed it in 24 hours and he had to come up with the concept do this do that and execute on it and it's one of the most brilliant posters it is because it's so ambiguous but like dark yes well i've also noticed

notice that one hand is flexed like this and one hand is reaching for you it sort of it's sort of suggests that the thing doesn't know it's the thing at that moment just like in the movie that the copies you get the sense that the copies of the people are not aware that they're copies until a mouth springs out of their chest, you know, they're like, wow. That's true. So one hand is like a victim. One hand is reaching for you. Yeah, I never noticed that. And I asked Drew, I'm like, why did you do that? It's like, I don't know, it just felt right. He didn't have time to think. I don't know why I did it. I do. You seen a cons? Yeah. Well, no, I've, I know him personally through Frank Darabond. Drew actually did a poster for being human as a favor to me.

And you run that for a couple years. Yeah. Yeah, I was that, that being human was, uh, went four years. and drew this is kind of funny since we're i would only say this on the michael rosenbaum podcast but since we're talking like about you know we say people say things on this that they just should never say so i think people just open up and uh you know whatever so so here's something that has never been publicly told um sci-fi at the time was trying to do a bunch of different stuff being human was coming out with our third third season and the material was really strong I felt like we didn't have as strong as second season, but our third season was really funny and really strong and really great. And all of our publicity budget was siphoned over to a new project they were doing.

So there was no publicity, no publicity. So I said to the cast, I'm like, guys, I can get Drew to do this. He offered to do it for a fraction. He says, he's got to pay me something because, come on, I got to keep the lights on. But I'll not charge you anything near what I charge. For a poster? To paint a being human. poster and he'd already done a piece of art for me for free that was being human just

out of the goodness of heart i said could you do a full poster he's like that he's like you have to understand the commitment how much let me guess he gave you a discount i'm guessing 10 000 uh it was a little bit more than 10 000 it was a lot less than 30 000 25 000 it was 20 20 000 did you ask the cast members to chip in no no what i did was this i said cast members if i gave you a bunch of drew strews and posters would you sign them and they said Yes. I'm like, great. I'll sell those to make the money back. And that way, we get a publicity piece for our season three. And Drew, who usually charges astronomical prices way, way, way higher than that, I said, Drew, would you do this? And he said, yeah, okay, I'll do it for that.

So he gave me the sweetheart price, you know, and then spent weeks, weeks doing this. It was a great. I loved it. Love it. Now, did you get your money back? Oh, yes. So you sold him at cons. Yeah. And people bought them. How many did you have? Oh, I can't remember. I have a few left.

I sell them on Etsy now. Like 80 bucks each. 80 bucks. That's it. So you just made copies. Yeah. Well, yeah,

I made these sort of prints, the really high quality prints and the cast signed all of them. And I still sell these on Etsy and stuff. So I have some left. So you're the one who paid all of it. I paid the $20,000. Yeah.

And so have you made your money back? Yeah. You have. Yeah. That's ballsy and cool. Yeah. Well, I had to come up with something.

I'm like, we're not publicized. what's so far our best season? Did the publicist or publicity department really like it and use it? Yeah, they did a little bit, but they were also, they didn't use it as much as I'd like because I think they were a little embarrassed that the actor is paying his own money.

Yeah, because you guys aren't doing shit. Dude, so I remember going into a meeting with sci-fi and we presented the poster and it was gorgeous. It was legitimately gorgeous. And I remember the execs at sci-fi. They're like, well, you have to understand, Sam. I just want to, we want to open up the popular. that we use, this photo shoot that we did for season three, that we are really proud of.

We're really proud of these photos. And I'm like, these photos right here, they're like, yeah. Well, I put together that shoot too, guys, because I did. I organized a photo shoot because we didn't even have so much as a photo shoot. They really didn't. They didn't do anything. So I pointed to photos. I'm like, you like those photos?

And they're like, yeah. And I'm like, well, I did that. That was something I organized with the cast. And so I'm like, so this poster, you understand. I'm like, see these? And I pulled over open a few photos for them. Like, see these photos? Interesting how they're in the same position as in the poster.

This is reference for the poster, guys. I put it together a photo shoot that doubled his reference to give to Drew so he could make the poster. So they are embarrassed again. Probably not the best move of my part of my. Maybe you should have said that. Because were they, were they? I said it with a smile. Right.

Yeah. By the way, I got to ask it's a Rosenbaum question. I always think, you know, my friend John Heater, name drop, Napoleon Dynamite. He, uh, he always, gosh, you always want to know, like, what things cost or what people get paid or like, I'm like, yeah, because I'm interested. It's like, cool, because I know people get shined a lot. Some people, you know, work really hard and the networks, you know, you figure when you make to a certain, you know, status or you get a show that you're going to get paid well.

But obviously, you know, that's not always true. And I want, I would think sci-fi probably doesn't pay well. Well, it's interesting. Sci-fi had a reputation and an earned reputation. Here I'm going to, I'm going to boost them a little bit. They had a reputation for being really great about renegotiations past. season three or something like that, right, where they started really paying well and they had a really great reputation for that. We were on the cusp of that, but there was a strange

snafu that happened in our show that caused us. A bizarre snafu basically. We were getting ready to shoot season four and five back to back. We were going to be renewed for two seasons, not just one, but two seasons because they liked the numbers. I mean, my objection was, guys, if you keep promoting the show, you can grow the audience even bigger than what it is. because we're delivering, I think, a really good show. And they were busy trying to make other shows. And they actually, again, I had some people admit to me like, yes, part of the large part of your publicity budget is actually going to the budget of that show.

I'm like, that's great, terrific, which caused me to, you know. That's what it always is. We were just talking about Tom and I about Smallville. It was such a success, but they're like, yeah, but all our other shows are bombing. So we need to take the money from Smallville's earnings and give it to these other shows. frustrating because you're like you could have a bigger hit it's bullshit you could have a because the the math that was done was like well you guys found your audience so now we're going to try to build other audiences for other shows be like yes but our audience could be twice as big if you

guys just publicized us anyway now here's where I'm going to give them credit we were going to everyone was going to sign the contracts for two seasons of being human four and five and we were going to shoot it nonstop kind of like what you guys have small but we're going to shoot 26 episodes 10 months. Yeah. And we, which we were 13 episode orders. So we were like,

oh boy, here goes. And it was a, being human was only ever 16 to 18 hour days every day, you know. So it was a brutal show to do. But we, but as brutal as it was,

we liked the story. The maniacs that we were working for, our producers and writers were hilarious. And so if you wanted to be working for someone, you wanted to be working for them. Right. And if you're going to be trapped on set for 16, to 18 hours you wanted the maniacs that we had for casting crew we ever

love them oh my god i love those people all of that that's important so so you were exhausted but you know and you'd be dude and i played such a moody character so i'd be sitting there brooding and my character's just brooding and i'm and i'm getting into this broody place and it's like our you know this one this day was going to go 19 hours so i'm sitting there and i'm in a bad mood and then sam hunting in comes and farts on my leg and i'm like i'm like you know it's not that he farted on my leg his comedic timing on the fart and the placement of the fart did it vibrate on your leg yeah i was like i was like i could feel that it went to my bone my you know it sounds like my kind of guy and and and and and and and at that point you're like i can't be in a bad

mood now he just farted my bad mood away you know i understand that's how i feel about farts they you can fart bad moods yeah inside of you is brought to you by quince i love quince ryan I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously. You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices. Look, cooler temps are rolling in. And as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last.

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cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the service. so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. So anyway, we all felt very strongly about the show.

Clearly, we all loved it. So we were going to do seasons four and five. And then an international finance partner, the day before the contracts were signed, fell out of the deal. So suddenly there's a whole chunk of the show that is not being paid for. Mark Stern, the head of sci-fi,

and this is where I'm going to give sci-fi series credit, he jumped to action, made universal by that chunk of the show, but because they weren't expecting to buy a chunk of a show, like a third of a show, it was sold for fire sale prices. So they couldn't give you raises.

They couldn't give us the raises, and they legitimately couldn't. They had a really good reason not to. As far as you know. Right, exactly. But then the other part of it is that our budget went down. So what happened was this.

I remember Anna Fricky, the showrunner, she contacted a lot of us and goes, you remember, she contacted me. And I know she contacted the other leads. And she said, what do you think, Sam, if we ended it on season four? Because we could ask them to end on our, you know, and she knew that there was a new regime coming for sci-fi and all kinds of stuff. She's like, with our budget going down, we can ask for favors from some of the department heads, but people are going to be taking pay cuts. And you can't ask people to do that for more than a year. And she goes, so we're going to lose those. people and then eventually if we get a season five it's going to be a lesser product we're not

going to have any money to do anything to bring in cast you said let's just finish it on four we we all agree that we're like if we're going to have this show and let's end end it with the good version of our show let's end it on our steam because of this weird thing that happened with this international partner so we decided and we we we asked sci-fi can we end it on this season right and they said yes but the only problem is they didn't tell the fans so the fans were a little bit blindsided but we at least had a whole season to to end our show and I was very I think we ended it very very strongly so sci-fi I got to give them credit yeah one they saved the show would have just gone away and then two um they let us ended on our own steam which when does that

ever happen never I can count on like never one hand how many shows I've heard where people get to go hey can we end it like this give an ending yeah I've been on many shows that get stopped abruptly um let me ask you this you were born in Illinois Were you the kind of kid that was like, were you just all over the place and like creative and just like, you knew, people knew this kid's gonna be an entertainer. He's gonna be an actor.

Is it something you wanted to do since you're a kid? Where did you grow up? In Indiana. Indiana. Right. So you were probably, we were probably in the same boat, I'm guessing because no one knew what to do with us, with me.

Oh, was that how you felt? I was just annoying and I didn't, I was just weird and I had a lot of energy. I know focus and you know no one was taking me under their wing and saying let's okay it was it was tough it was very tough for me growing up but what was it like for you did you have supported parents were they they were supportive in some ways but imprinted some old school programming that was not necessarily helpful and I think you're going to relate to this because I'm seeing you talk about I wasn't focused and I was you know you're even your body language seemed to suggest

like ah it's just like kind of a mess up as a you swear on this shirt i didn't yeah yeah i felt like i just didn't have any purpose right yeah yeah so so i you know with the lockdown on the global pandemic i have only now at my age reassessed whether i was the fuck up that i always believed i was because i'll throw it my whole life even you know until like a couple years ago i'm like i'm a fuck up. I am an airhead. I'm there. I'm fuck up. Whatever. Yeah, yeah. And then I, you are. I'm not at all. Total fuck. But no, I would describe myself the same way. I'm like, my grades were terrible. Terrible. You know, couldn't focus, all that stuff. Parents didn't like you. Parents were like they thought some of the things that I could do were cool, but I was not doing the one thing

you're supposed to do grades and supposed to go to school and focus. And, and Instead, I was this long-haired, bearded kid who they- Bearded? Yeah. In high school? Yeah. You have to understand. I didn't start puberty though I was like a senior.

When some of your genes are Spanish, right? Put it up. Put it up. It happens, man. I had a thick beard. At times, sometimes I shaved it. Sometimes I did. Wow.

You had hair in your balls like at 12, didn't you? Yeah. Thick Spanish hair on the balls, right? Another high-five. So, just saying, um so so i was you know i i looked like a fuck up i probably talked like well i was swearing all the time and i was hanging out with a bunch of musician people who all i'm in a band i'm in a band plumber love plumber love plumber which is a very respectable respectable name yeah but dude

it's like no one no one knew what the hell to do with these kids and and they all soon we were on drugs and stuff like that we were weirdly enough the most like chilled out we didn't drink we didn't smoke we didn't do drugs we were just all we wanted to do was huddle over a computer or play d and d or record music play music out for with our friends stuff like that and people you know there were a lot of people that assumed that we were bad news now funny enough my high school many of the teachers saw through it they're like no he's a great kids and they treated us like that that's unbelievable just fucking what a rarity yeah so the parents had me tested for drugs all the time, right? But the people at school were like, I mean, they would say shit to me like,

you're going to be fine. Like, what do you mean? I'm going to be fine. I'm like flunking out of this class. I'm getting a deed. They're like, it's not what you're for. And I'm like, what are you talking about? Not what you're here for. So, so if you and I were born in Los Angeles, it would have taken people all of five seconds at an early age to know what we were supposed to be doing. And they would have sent us in that direction. Yeah. Think about that. Think about what you Yeah, I was already, I was doing impressions. I was making people laugh. I was just all over the place.

You're right. You're right about that. I feel like, you know, if we were born out here, that all that energy and the channels, oh, this is a kid's an entertainer. He's an actor. That's what he's supposed to do. And they would have been very clear on that, but put us in Indiana and Illinois, even in the suburb of Chicago where I was at, where John Hughes is from, they still didn't

have a sense for it. Now, thank God, my high school had an incredible arts program and all kinds of activities. So I was applied hardcore to that stuff. So you did a lot of theater in high school. Yeah. Starting when? Starting when as soon as I got there, freshman year. And you had no acting experience really?

No, and I didn't take it seriously, but it was fun. And I was told, you know, the traditional wisdom is, well, that's all fun in games. But eventually you have to get a real job, doctor, lawyer, or whatever. Do you have to, you know, not going to happen? Never. Not with my grades. No way. So, you know, so my whole life I've had this sort of.

of subconscious belief that, you know, that I never updated the file of, oh, you're a fuck up. And over the lockdown, I was like, well, well, let's break it down. Played D&D with my friends all the time. I was huddled over a computer doing weird technical experiments because, you know, the Amiga 500 could do some incredible things. Sounds like weird science. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. We tried to create a girl, right? No, we didn't quite get that far. But, you know, it was recording music and playing with my band um you know was acting and uh and also was playing a lot of video games okay oh yeah that that doesn't make a lot of sense he's a fuck up be like wait a second playing video games oh i make video games now d and d&D well i make d and d books and something like that um

the acting thing oh yeah i'm an actor uh what about the weird technical computer stuff yeah yeah i do that now too although i'm under nda so i can't say what i do but i do weird bizarre stuff that's kind of cutting edge stuff and the music thing oh yeah I draw a paycheck from that as well so it's like wait a second and I started during the lockdown I'm like maybe I was never a fuck up

maybe it was like oh but why weren't your grades good be like because try concentrating in class when you discovered at 11 and 12 years old what you're supposed to be doing for the rest of your life all I could think about was getting home and recording that song or mushing around with the computer I have the same thing it's like you know back then jerking off in a sock now jerk no that was it it's the same a more expensive

that's right armani socks you know um no i get it um you know uh i remember things like i i'm the best armpit farter in the world my brother was pretty good too so i say hey they're they're auditioning people for america's funniest videos at the mall and i made my parents take me out there and we did jingle bells with our armpits. Jingle bell. This happened. This took place. Yes, I auditioned and we didn't get it.

But I remember going to St. Louis with my parents to a Cardinals game, a baseball game. And I was a Mets fan. I hated the Cardinals. And they had, it was Ozzy Smith. They were doing an Ozzy Smith, the shortstop for the Cardinals. And they were interviewing people outside. They're like, oh, I got to be on this. So I went up and I go, hey, I'm a big.

And I'm like 10 years old. And they go, hey, so what do you like about Ozzy? And I go, oh, he's really smooth. And he's, and I just was making up because I wanted to be. I still have that video, the VHS tape. They made it and I got in. I got in that little thing. It was like three seconds long. It's me as a little wiener. And, uh, you know, so these little things along the way, I look back and just making jokes and I used to, I never was able to go out my friends. My parents made me babysit my brother. So on Saturday, nights they'd go out and get drunk man i don't know my mom got drunk my dad wasn't a big drinker but maybe he did maybe smoking pot he was coke yeah maybe it's coke uh but i remember learning everything that

happened in s andl and they'd come home and i go well i'm the church lady and this is church chat that's right and i would do that and i would do him here yeah that's the ticket me and my life morgan fat time and i would do all the impressions so i knew that there was something but i didn't know what it was you were doing is you were practicing dude maybe i was in yes no but no in a very real sense you were practicing i remember talking to uh i this crystallized in my brain when when this friend of mine you know she was like i want to be a voice actor but she was always very irritated when i would break into some weird voice and i'm like what's interesting because my friends a lot of them are actors they never get irritated when i break into a boy they

break into something similar and we're always imitating something or doing some sort of weird voice or something like that and i was like wait a second people who enjoy doing that well they're doing it for fun, but you know what they're doing while they're doing it? They're learning how their voice works. Right. They're learning how to change their voice, their mouth, their articulators to create different types of sounds. So you were practicing, dude. Absolutely. I remember taking a dialects course in college and we had to go and give, you know, a reading in different accents, different dialects. So first there was an Irish accent, then there was Scottish and then there was, you know, and we'd do English and all these things. And we got to one. And then I just,

I just, I got up there and I go, oh, Agent Stirling, you think you can dissect me with him, a little tool. It's so ambitious, aren't you? With you. And I started doing this Anthony Hopkins or whatever the hell it was. And I got a D on it. Right. He was like, I didn't want you to do impressions.

We're doing. But I was always like, I need to get things out. I need to get things out. So I get it. I get it entirely. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because. I use this. Ryan uses this. So many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? How cool is that? Monitorers your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And you know what's great? It works. It really works, Ryan. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better.

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Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that I'm impacts real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the wicked and reveal the grim.

We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. When did you know that I'm really good? When was at that moment? I had a teacher, her name is Beth Barber. Beth Barber. And she was the, you know, one of the drama people. at the high school.

And she said to me on more than one occasion, she would take me aside and she goes, hey, listen, I wanna talk to you about something. I'm like, what, what? I'm attracted to you. Yeah, yeah, no. I will do, oh, thank God, all of my teachers were extremely appropriate in terms of,

because I got really close to them. We became like friends. I still contact these people. Mrs. Barr, was she was, no, mine was Mrs. Barr, science teacher. And I wish she got inappropriate. I see. She was so hot.

Yeah. And she was like, you know, I'm like 15 years old and she's like 23 teaching. And I'm like, oh, my God, dream. But I hope she likes guys with no hair on their balls like little weaners. How do you bring that up? How do you bring that up? Anyway. By the way, there was this one.

That's what you think is a little kid. You're like as a 15, 16 year old boy, your hormones are going nuts. Like, oh my God, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. You're reminding. Keep it down. Keep it down.

You're reminding me of an intro that me and Glenn Howerton did with this producer we were sitting down. We were trying to get this movie made, right? Which never got made. You still friends with him? Yeah. Yeah, I went to school with him. He's like one of my best friends.

Philadelphia. One and I have been close since we met when we were eight. Well, no, I was 18. He was like 20. He was a couple of years older than me. But I remember we were meeting with this producer. And I don't know what we were thinking. I mean, well, look, the script was totally, had a lot of inappropriate humor.

So we're like, let's, you know, we're like, let's make an impression. And so this woman sits down at the table with us. And we actually said the following. We'd had some conversations in the phone. So she was aware we were goofy, right? So she sits down and I'm trying to think, who opened this? Yeah. And like, so I, and I, she sits down and me and Glenn are kind of like looking at her, like, like this.

And I said, and we said, and I said, hey, do you like big dick? And then Glenn goes, how about two tiny ones? And then we were just both like, like nodding, giving us like, yeah? You want to have a threesome with two tiny little dicks? Two tiny little peepies. She laughed her ass off. I'm like, okay, let's get to work and stuff like that. But it was like, that was our way of breaking the ice, which would not fly today.

That would fly. This was like in 2002. It's a shame it wouldn't fly. It's like, it's harmless. Well, it's totally. Yeah, like, hey, you like big dicks? Yeah. How about two tiny ones?

How about? Ah. Yeah. And again, because she had read the script, she was already on board with that kind of humor. We were like going nuts, you know. But I mean, obviously, like, always sunny. shot their second pilot I was their camera operator oh my god so we were all and they never put you in the series they did once I was trying to bang rob and didn't succeed I was trying to I was trying to I was

trying to get men to come to the party part big it's not nothing you know as they were like no gay stuff but you know and my character was like I get it no gay stuff got yeah sure understood I'm gonna bang the shit out of you so so yeah that was my character um and then funny enough So I'm trying to bang Rob in the Always Sunny. Well, I have a different relationship with Rob in his Mythic Quest show. It's not, it's quite the opposite. I wanted to bang him in one show. I play his dad in another show.

So there you go. You play his dad. Play his dad. So you have this teacher who's like, you got something, all that stuff. So she blew my mind. She said to me, she said to me, she goes, you know, you could have a career at this. I'm like, and I've like, long, I'm like, what? What do you mean?

She's like, no, no, no, you have something. You could do this for a living. And I was like, that doesn't make any sense. Because I'm in Chicago, and it's not anything that my parents could imagine, you know. Right. But she said that several times. And then where my parents came in and they deserve some credit is that out of desperation, they ended up embracing what it is that I do.

Because they were like, well, you got to go to college. I'm like, good luck with that. My grades suck. I barely graduated. And they were like, well, then you're going to. be auditioning for the drama uh department of various colleges and i'm like and one was juliar and one was juliar and that's what i got i mean out of all the ones you could pick the hardest one to get into what are the in brief you don't have to get really into it but just like what do you do for an audition

what do you have to do to get into julia made it up i did i learned the audition that i learned the shakespeare piece that morning what do you mean you learned a shakespeare piece that morning i know you memorized it there was another there was you have that kind of a memory where you could just memorize so fast? I think I used to. Not anymore. I'm an old man now. No, but like how long is this thing? Is it a monologue? We were just talking about monologs. Put out thy light, uh, Othello. Yeah. And you did it impromptu almost. I was procrastinating. You weren't nervous. And Barber helped me work on it that morning. She's like, get, get the hell over to my office. We're going to work on this monologue. And I learned it right then. And we did it. And I must have read it the

they before um how long is it five minutes i can't remember i don't know okay maybe two minutes so you got how many people are you auditioning for uh michael con was there john sticks and i think liz smith there were some of the founding members of the school were there they were in chicago right but do you have to before you even auditioned do you have to send something in like i have to put in a application i don't know how the hell i got the i mean i think they they auditioned like lots of people and then there are 20 spots and you went to new york uh no they they they They had a, they would go to San Francisco, New York, and Chicago to audition and Los Angeles. Did you think any chance that you were going to get in?

No. No. No. I showed up. Everyone was all dressed up and looking great. And I showed up in like a trench coat and like long hair and looked like, I don't know. Whatever. Yeah.

It's like, whatever. I ripped jeans. And I was asleep when they posted the callbacks. It's like on the floor. And they're like, oh, we're calling back so and so and so and so. and I thought I heard my name and I'm like what the fuck I go up and like did you mean like Sam what were yeah okay and then I left I just didn't I didn't take it seriously and when did you get a call it was a went did the call back and then it was maybe a week or two later that I was

called into the student activities office at high school and there and it was Juilliard on the phone waiting for me to talk now how much is it cost to go to Juilliard I do you know a way too fucking much how did you do it at that point at that point My parents, again, with the whole North Shore Chicago thing, could pay for it. But I think I gave them a half off with Juilliard because I got kicked out after two years. So I was half. Why did you get kicked out? Because it was a terrible fit.

It's like not a good fit. Were you a drinker? No. Were you doing drugs? None of that. None of that. Although everyone in high school said that I was. So that was great.

The rumor is I got kicked out because of cocaine use. I'm like, I didn't do it. So what did you do to get kicked out of Juilliard? Well, I liked some things and I didn't like other things. And I could apply myself to the things that I liked, but I couldn't apply myself to the things that I didn't like. And the other thing was that I hadn't really made a commitment of being an actor because I just didn't take it seriously.

That didn't go over that well. But did you do enough in there that you learned enough to help you? Yes, I did. I've stolen their stuff, you know, shamelessly. I think some of these teachers would be horrified to learn what I've used their training. for. But here's the thing. You know, Juilliard, Glenn and I talk about this to this day. Glenn said not a year ago, he said to me. And if this shows you that the people that went to Juilliard all share the same trauma, he said, can you imagine what, how good the Juilliard School of Drama would be

if they were interested in helping young people? And I was like, yeah, that'd be incredible school, wouldn't it? Maybe something else. Because some of the teachers were incredible. They're like, For example, there's a teacher named Ralph Zito, voice and speech, he was unbelievably great. And hard on you at times when you were messing around, but like just terrific, Richard Feldman, another one who could be hard on you. Oh, Dickie Feldman. Oh, Dickie Feldman. Dickie Felds. Dickie Felds.

You know, and, you know, there were various teachers there that were wonderful. Becca Guy was really sweet to me and also hard on me. But then there were teachers there. I hated you. well they hated everyone i weirdly no one really got on my case but i watched those sometimes they did and i watched those teachers really hammer mercilessly on some of the actors so much so that like i i worked with keep you seen people cry oh yeah all the time it was traumatic dramatic i never did because i never took it seriously i was like whatever man you guys are all

trying to learn how to be actors i don't know what i want to do for a living um and that didn't go over well over there you know what I mean you have this you have this innate confidence about you that I think that's I mean that's what's gotten you that and town obviously talent but to have such a confidence is a big part of it huge you don't seem like someone who really gets nervous before an audition who gets is it has it changed I get nervous now are you second guessing yourself are you are you too hard on yourself do you get anxiety what is it well you know what's interesting and you're i think because i'm you know watch your podcast and listen to it a lot so i you've talked about this type of thing always yeah and the thing is dude in this career you better accept that sometimes

you're going to be the be the be so important you're so important you're the lead of the blah blah whatever and then the next week you can be nobody i mean maybe not the next week but like you alternate from being someone to no one, so you eventually got to go, it doesn't, it doesn't fucking matter. Who cares? Who cares? Who fucking cares? I get uncomfortable when, when people, wow, walk the red carpet. I don't want to, I don't want to do that. You know what? That's funny. You said that. I, uh, I remember my, my manager and I was never good at this. Go, I want you to go to the Golden Globes. You need to be seen. I go, I don't have a project there. I don't want to go somewhere where I don't belong. No, a lot of actors go, I go, I'm not that guy. I went to one Golden Globes.

and I just felt weird. Took my friend. It just, I always feel like nobody knows me. Who am I? What am I doing here? I don't belong. So I don't,

I never did a lot of that. And it might have hurt me. He might have been right. I need to do that. But a lot of people can do that. I'm not great at it. Here's the thing. Here's the thing.

Your manager's totally right. Uh-huh. He's totally right. But, but you're the guy. Again, there was, there was an episode of,

of this where I was just, I, I, so happy you were talking about this because you were breaking open what the reality is, not the, your manager at that time, if he had learned that Michael Rosenbaum was going to say on a podcast, we're like, well, yeah, no, no, you're a big deal and you're the lead, and then you're done and get to the back of the line. Yeah. That's not what you say if you're trying to sell the idea of like, this guy's a huge actor. He's the next big thing. Oh, he's really important.

You never, ever show that, you know, because that would be like showing weakness. Vulnerability. Vulnerability. That's what it is. And so you're encouraged to act like you're this big, important thing. But here's my argument. By being honest, that's a different thing. And that is really appealing, I think, to be completely honest about what this business is.

So I have a friend. I was tired of lying on myself for so many years. I just felt like, you know, I feel better just this is who I am. This is what I dealt with. is, you know, hire me because I'm, you think I'm down and I'm, and I'm, and I'm easy to work with. And so, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, but no, but that's the thing, man. Like, like, there are people out there who that message is going to be far more useful to them. Especially now. I think people are opening up to mental health and all that stuff. And like, hey, we're human. Yeah. Yeah.

You know, something that, that you're, okay, when I was finally after Julia, after I got kicked out, I had to make a decision whether I was going to pursue acting or not. I'm like, okay, now I actually have to decide. And I remember writing on AOL because the internet was brand new. This is like 2000 or something like that. I wrote on AOL an actor named Bruce Campbell. Do you know him? Yeah, he's right behind you on the poster.

Yeah. So I wrote Bruce Campbell. Bruce Campbell wrote back. And the question was, how do you decide to be an actor? And he wrote back some of the most amazing advice. You still have it to this day? I don't unfortunately but I remember what he wrote he wrote well he's like a couple things one you make the decision and then you don't look back I'm like that's interesting so he's saying make

a commitment right but then he said also he's like you know and also don't expect that when you get the job that you're going to be magically happy take the tools you have right now make yourself as happy as you can be and I thought that was such a realistic human way of thinking about this stuff Yeah, you know, it's funny I had a conversation with Bruce not that long ago. We were smoking grass and riding bikes. And he says, well, this is my third act. And I go, what? He goes, it's the final act in his life.

Because he's, you know, at that age, he's like, this is it. I got to do what I want to do. This is my last chance to do what I want to do. Live on my terms, you know, not, I'm not doing this kind of shit anymore. doing that this is and we talked about that and it's like you know there are three acts and i think you know i'm in my second act and it's like you know the third act's coming up and i want to sort of get a hold on you know what i really want i'm spending so much time trying to figure it out what it is i really want what do you want well that's the question it's i you look it's it's

it's the it's the question that everybody it's you know it's it's you know some people get mad at me when I say this, but, you know, it's the quest for, I want to want to say happiness. I want to say fulfillment, content, being content, being, just enjoying what you're doing, if you can, just trying to feel good every day, try to feel good every day and tell the people around me that I love them. Can I ask you a question? Yeah. That's the last part is wonderful.

I love that. But can I ask you a question, do you feel like, do you feel like Smallville and the success of that warped your ability to suss out what's going to make you happy and what isn't? I don't know. I don't, you know, I'm certainly grateful. I always look at it as, you know, how many people in their lifetimes, even an actor, how many actors are there? And what percentage of the world are actors, right? I'm like get to be on a hit show something that's universal

that you could still that people watch after it's gone You could still go to cons And the fans are still there And it's like it stands the test of time No one gets to do that No one So I always said if that's it

And I do a bunch of other fun things Great I think I just You know I'm glad small though happened I mean I was I went through some tough times Where I don't think I was happy at all. But I think that stems from childhood. I think I just, I wasn't working things out. Things weren't getting worked out. So I would, things would weigh so heavily on me where I felt just empty all the time and like not good enough and insatiable. And, uh, and I didn't know why I had

these things. And until I started working on myself, until I started understanding the connections, the parallels and going, oh, that's why I do that. that's what and now that I understand that I could sort of assess it and go okay why do you feel this way right now you feel rejected or you feel this right and and sort of figure it out and let it go more than I used to and that's I'm finally I finally feel like I'm sort of growing up I fart and I do stupid shit but I feel like I'm starting to grow up I'm starting to enjoy things maybe it's then finally I got on the right meds I don't know but and that's true i was just having a conversation with uh a good buddy of mine who is a great

actor you know him he was over the house last night and he's like yeah you know i just having myself for a couple years i you know my person i'm with it's you know it's just not really it hasn't been working and i go is it your fault you think he goes yes it's my fault and i don't know i go and we started talking i go listen For the last four years, getting me out of bed wasn't easy. My dog was the reason I got out of bed because I know that I had to take care of this pup. And I didn't leave the house a lot. My anxiety was through the roof up and down and this and that.

I was living a life that I couldn't live anymore. I really just, I go, there's got to be. And I told him I spent two years, the last two years, trying to find the right meds because I felt like there was just something in my brain that would not. allow me to um be motivated or enjoy things or you know it was just I was depressed I was all these and people think you're depressed when you when you're just

you know you're just constantly I don't want to do this I don't want to I wasn't like that and I could fake it and people would think you're fine right and I said I really think you should consider seeing a psychiatrist and talk to him about these feelings because he hadn't and maybe there's some med an antidepressant that could change your life and give you a boost to help you now for me I was never on antidepressants growing up never on any anti anxieties never dealt with it the funny thing is I did dealt with it and I didn't know it I didn't know all these things growing up were all anxieties I was always in a perpetual state of anxiety constantly anxious about everything and I didn't know that that

was anxiety this was this was depression you're down you go and entertain people at a party and laugh and everybody loves you and you go home and you're sad why and until i got to talk to a professional and realized i need a little help this this was something that changed my life and i said i think this could change yours seek it out try it and i think that's why i started opening up here on this podcast because i think being vulnerable and being real is i'm not not lying to myself anymore i'm going you feel this way talk to someone you've got to talk to someone don't just let it build and build and and why why make yourself suffer so i don't know if that was the answer but i just got on a tangent no no no it's because again it's it's with what

the world has been through recently sure we all got to be talking about this stuff and the thing is is i think it's useful for actors and stuff to talk about it because everyone thinks because we're constantly projecting hey we're not only is everything great with me but i'm special as hell and it's just perfect what what's your next project oh yeah i'm doing this thing i'm writing this i'm doing this i'm making this i'm working what about nothing how about just working on myself yeah just trying to be happy and yeah that's the thing it's like it's the thing that i try to tell people is it's like listen, it's not, it's not what you think and you're dealing with, especially, you know, talking about mental health. People in our profession deal with a kind of astronomical

amount of the word no and disappointment. Sure. And all that stuff. And you almost have to just jettison any, for me, it's jettisoning the expectation that anyone, anything should happen makes me happy. Yeah. Thinking about, you know, when they're like, what do you want to do next? Be like, how about this. How about I don't know and I don't want to know? Because if I start thinking about that, I'm going to start, it's going to drive me crazy. Oh, why did I get that? Oh, why did that person get that? And no, no, no, fuck it. You know what I think it is a lot of times? When people say, what are you doing? What are you up to? You feel compelled to tell them, pop up your chest that I'm doing this. I'm this. I'm, I'm, I'm, what's the word? I'm, um, important. Well,

not, not important, but, um, what is it when you cast somebody, they're worth there. I am, I I am valuable, valuable. I'm valuable. See all the things that I'm doing? That's right. I'm valuable. And the reality is... And that's why I asked about the warped thing.

Because hitting that thing that you said, no one gets to do what we've gotten to do, right? And be the lead of a series and stuff like that or, you know, or a series regular or however many times or whatever it is. No one gets to do that. I have found there is a real mental health risk in that. Because you will eventually return to real life. and you're not going to have a publicity team

it's constantly rotating around you. You're great, you got a magazine thing. All that shit. All of a sudden it's gone. You're like, whoa, oh, oh. If you start buying into, and thankfully I was always skeptical of that shit.

I'm like, don't buy into this. Don't think that this is, this means anything. So, so when, when, you know, you get back to the back of the line, thankfully I had a, I would leg up in terms of making that adjustment because I'm like, well, you never totally bought into that shit. Now you're learning you did a little bit, though. because it's bugging you, it's bugging you that you're not getting this or that someone isn't

calling you for that, but it shouldn't. Yeah. Because fuck it. Because it's not, these are goals that are not necessarily going to create happiness, especially, dude, series work, man, all you're doing is going to work. There is no personal life. So how can you say that that, you know, like I was very happy doing being human, but I didn't have a personal life, not at all.

There's no time. And when you probably got really depressed when it was over each season. Right. or when it was over for good well is you know and you you you make that adjustment so it warps your ability to sort of take these things in yeah you know um it's funny and this i realized i this happened from childhood is that i've never felt worthy i've never felt like i'm good when i was on small or when i do shows when i do movies or whatever i do i'm always it's weird it's like man i nailed that I did good and I did really well.

I'm really good. And then you're like expecting that everybody should notice that. And what a mistake that is or comparing yourself. And so what happens is, wow, I'm really good. They're giving me, I got this award and then, you know, blah, blah, blah. But still nothing's changed. I'm not getting what I thought I would get. I'm not getting the publicity.

They're not making me the priority. I've always felt like I've never been the priority and that always made me sort of what's the word resentful. I always felt like fuck or jaded like I never get any fucking

this funny thing is now that I'm working on myself and doing this I've gotten more credit for like playing Lex Luthor or things than I never even I never thought I was appreciated on all these projects from the studios from anything

I always felt like I was this this the other guy not the lead guy not important you're yeah we'll get you some publicity i was always never important enough and i never should have looked at it like that i should have been like dude look what i'm doing i'm because it all stems from not being good enough not getting attention all these things that i had to work on and and and tell that little inner fucking child that these are great things and you should be proud of these things and nobody owes you anything no and and and you no matter how great you think you are or want to be, it's not what's important.

That's right. It's just, it's a lot. It's a lot of shit. Well, you know, and the whole thing of like, oh, it's going into the third act,

that whole thing. Yeah. And what do you want to do? You know, I have no answer to what I want to do at this point. And my reasoning is, I'm like, yeah,

but I've already gotten to do so many things I want to do. So why don't I just go in not fucking knowing? I don't know. What do you want? What kind of roll? Like, even my managers, they get frustrated with me and rightfully so.

They're like, what role what do you want us to look for for you i don't know i don't know i got to do cool shit and they're like that's useless to us but thank you for being you're just kind of like you're not trying as hard no you're not going oh i need this i need this you're like whatever because you go through that and then i'd be like you know what makes me really happy is hanging out with my dogs because i feel like i have like i'm like and ryan and ryan and ryan like i'm like i'm like in ryan right like a dog too i know wait wait wait i'm at ryan and hanging out with ryan I want to hang out with your dog, though, is what I'm saying.

Yeah. Okay, cool. It brings me joy. And that honesty brings me joy. Whatever. Yeah. You know what's funny? We have even got into, go finish your before.

Oh, but I was going to say, like, I have learned, like, the life that makes me the happiest is far more simple than what it is that I was reaching for before. Thinking that would make you happy. It's the little things holding your dog. Yeah. I love. And I got three of these guys. So, and I live in, I've lived in Los Angeles now longer than I had the entire time.

that I'd been working as an actor because the lockdown and all that stuff. But, I mean, you know, I was constantly being transplanted to some other city for, you know, jobs and stuff like that. I love being home and I love hanging out with my dogs. And that makes me really, really, really happy. I hear you a million percent. It's amazing how things have changed. Yeah.

Things change, but you start feeling is important. My dog's important. My feeding him, feeding her, making her happy, giving her the things she needs, giving her love, making sure she's healthy. Look, we're almost, like, we're running out of time. But I got to tell you, we didn't talk about, like, Battlestar Galactica, the whole season of season eight of Smallville, Davis Bloom, which were well received, and, you know, they offered you a part in the next season to play.

And you were like, no, the audience, it was Doomsday? No, it was Doomsday in season eight, and then they wanted me to play Zod. In season nine, and you're like, the audience won't believe it. I'm not doing it. Yeah. which is ballsy and by the way they didn't pay you a lot they kept you as a recurring

no no I had a series right you remain because I've never seen season eight because I left in seven yeah so now that we're doing Talkville I'm gonna see your whole performance for the first time Jesus well just know that you were a major building block in that because

I well no no because I had to study what you did to see what's possible on the show and I was like oh the answer is a lot the answer is you can do a lot on the show because you were going for it. I mean, I was, and I was just, so I was paying special attention to your role,

not also because I knew that I had to do something different. Because I'm like, I can't, and if I cover the same ground as Rosenbaum, performance-wise, that's not going to win. Well, it's not you. It's not me. Right. And he's already done it.

And he won. He did it. You know, everyone loves that character. So I've got to do something totally different. So I, but watching what you did, uh was a huge thing that convinced me to do the the job because they were sniffing around me for i don't know why but they were so it was really a do you want to do it or do you not want to do it and watching your performance convinced me i think i want to do it because you can look look what he did look what he did

so thank you yeah well and which is a good thing because that led to being human same casting director and they were like in and in smallville my character's kind of a monster who didn't want to be a monster and And being human is a slightly more comedic version of that, a vampire who doesn't want to be a vampire. And the casting director eventually was like, I think I know a guy he does this because I had a lot of practice on Smallville, but just not the funny person. So from your performance in that, you got,

hey, I didn't know, is this true? You were engaged to Allison Mack? Oh, God. See, this is the great thing about rumors and the internet. This is all before all that shit happened. And this was like 14, 2014, 15. Yeah. So, so, you know, so let me take you back to just before Supergirl.

TMZ runs this whole information about me and, and that, that, you know, I was engaged to her while that nexium stuff was happening. So I started getting all these social media. So you were engaged to her. According to TMZ. And so I started getting all of this social media harassment, really. What do you know? What is Whitmer know? What does he know?

Were you part of this? Is it, are your initial? I mean, like awful, awful stuff. So I, I contacted my publicity people. I'm like, this has to be squashed. Because if I'm anyone who's hiring people, they're not, why would they want to deal with this? Why would they want to deal with all of this?

Whether, whether, you know, and I'm like, well, so you weren't engaged? I'm like, I don't know the chick. I worked with her. You never really knew her. No. No, no, no. So here's the deal. The fans really liked our relationship on the show.

So I was aware that the fans were like, We think that they're actually dating in real life. And I'm like, oh, great. They're spreading rumors about that, but whatever. Okay, fine. Then that story took on a life of its own, and the fans then decided, oh, not only are they dating, they just got engaged. And I'm like, what the fuck?

Couldn't be further from the truth. Which is just a fucking invasive thing when people are making shit about you, which happens all the fucking time. People said I've dated, look, Michael's dating history and it's girls I've never heard of. Yeah. Never heard of a lot of them. Yeah.

Candace, I was happy about vampire diaries. I said I dated this girl, Candice, who is great. she's great in the show we went on two dates or something yeah we had a great time she was awesome that was it yeah you were engaged you're engaged to her that's what i heard yeah never engaged anybody that illegitimate child let me ask you so but really quick so dude i thought i i had my publicity team write TMZ and essentially say hi you didn't do your due diligence this is going to harm sam's ability to get work and if you can't provide one fucking photograph of these two people in public retract your goddamn story or we're going to sue you

and TMZ then suddenly started issuing retractions and then the little sites issued retractions and within two weeks I was hired for Supergirl and I remember being like, guys, good thing we did that because of this story, because it was getting bigger and bigger and bigger would have gotten the role and it's not because they would have believed it, they would have been like, that's too much drama around here.

Whether he did it or not, let's not deal with the drama. Yeah. Did you ever? Because it's like Superman, Supergirl, Allison Mack, this and that, oh, this, you know, What does Sam know? You like how my mind works. Get ready for this. Oh, my God.

Did you ever kiss Allison off screen? No. Okay. Never. Never. Never. But by the way, it was a shock. It was a shot where you completely shocked when it all happened.

You're like, what the hell? Shit. I think we were all just shocked. It was crazy, crazy time. And, you know, um, you know, look, as people could say whatever they want about Allison. I knew her has really sweet. She was always good to me. She was always great at her job.

She was a great actress. And I couldn't believe it. So that's all I'll say about that. Look, you've done so much, you're going to have to come back on. But Battlestar Galactic, Smallville, being human once upon a time, Supergirl fourth season is the main antagonist. Riverdale Dexter, The Mist with Frank Darabont. You also did a little Walking Dead playing a zombie.

You did voice stuff on the Mandalorian, Star Wars, Star Killer and Force Unleashed game series, Darth Mall, Palpatine and Clone Wars and Rebels. unbelievable. How, why can't I get one audition for a damn Star Wars voice? Dude. Ontario, the wait is over. The gold standard of online casinos has arrived. Golden Nugget online casino is live. Bringing Vegas style excitement and a world class gaming experience right to your fingertips. Whether you're a season player or just starting, signing up is fast and simple. And in just a few clicks, you can have access to our exclusive library of the best and top-tier table games.

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It's so look, that was because a friend of mine. Okay. So the Force Unleashed was a video game project. And George Lucas and the team there decided they're like, you know, I don't know how this happened. But at some point, someone said, and let's pretend like it was George, right? So here goes. All right. You know what you should do for video games? You should hire a guy. who looks like the, he doesn't just sound like the part, but he looks like the part and we can use our ILM technology to put him in the game. That'd be interesting. And someone decided that the characters needed to be played by people who looked and felt like him in the way that the character would walk and everything would be dictated by the actor, which was not done in video games back in 2007. So my buddy says, you got to send me your headshot and you're real. And then he slitted in the pile. And I happened to look like how they wanted the character to look.

look you know they they this artist created this piece of art that looked somewhat like me and then they the headshot looked like what they wanted to look like then I came in for an audition and that's when me being a star wars nerd helped because there was a scene we were doing and the character's supposed to start in the scene meditating assembling his lightsaber with the force and he's meditating and then he comes out of the meditation and has the scene and I did the scene different every time but the meditation I always did it really tense like you know just balled up and fists of fury and white knuckles and and after a while the director's like you know we've done the scene four times and you've done it different but the meditation why are you playing it so tense the meditation you're so you're so

tense in the meditation and I said he doesn't know what to meditate the director's like what he's a sith he thinks this is how you do it and you force the pieces together because it's the this is my job you the force belongs to me so I was like Vader would never have taught him how to find inner peace he would have taught him to do the opposite and when I did that I saw a bunch of Lucasfilm people behind this glass wall at the studio. And they were all starting to look at me and talk about, and they're like, wait, wait, what's he doing? And I was told that was when I got hired for Force Unleashed. They're like, the moment you geeked out on what the Sith would have taught is when you got the role. Wow. And then because of Force Unleashed,

Dave Faloni hired me for Clone Wars, which is where my voiceover career began, basically. How many episodes of Clone Wars did you do? I can't remember. It was something around 11 or something. But the thing is, whenever I was in it, it was a big deal. They always made a big deal about it. So it feels like I'm in the show more than I was. But basically it started with this character called the Son of Mortis, who they were like, you want to do Clone Wars? I'm like, yeah, sure.

And they're like, it's a really cool role. I'm like, I just already said yes. You don't have to say that, you know, whatever. And then eventually I find out that you're like, no, you're playing the dark side of the force. There it says this dream world and Anakin and Obi-1 and Osokar in this dream world, and they meet this character named the sun. And the audience is going to, it's going to dawn on them that this is actually the voice

of the dark side, just trying to turn to turn everyone, you know, and manipulate events. And so I did that. And then after that, me and Dave became friends because we were nerding out on stuff. He just kept hiring you. And then eventually he was like, hey, so you know you get some friends in Lucasfilm, doing my Dave impression now. And I got some friends in Lucasfilm. So you probably know we're going to bring Darth Mall back. I'm like, yeah, I've heard. He's like, what do you think about that? I'm like, I don't know about that dude. I don't know if that's a good idea. He's like, okay. Well, we got it. Maybe we got something for you in the future. So thanks for coming in you later. And I didn't make the, I'm like, oh, so I'm going to play a bounty hunter? He's like,

uh, yeah, you haven't been listening to the conversation. Okay, cool, cool. See you later. See you later. I had no idea. So he calls me a year later. And he's like, so I need Darth Maul. Can you do it? And I'm like, what? Give me your best Darth Maul. Well, so Darth Maul from the Phantom Menace by, was voiced by Peter Seraffinowitz. And he was very, at last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have revenge. So I had to use that voice as the building block to create my Darth Mall, which has elements of both, but it goes in its own direction, you see. You know, and so it had to have the sense of Peter Serafinovitz, like that being the younger version of the character, but eventually the voice takes on a voice of its own. And so Dave and I,

I mean, Juilliard, that helped. Well, right. And what's hilarious is that me and Ralph Zito, my Juilliard voice and speech guru, would make Star Wars jokes all the time. So I would say, Emperor Zito. It's like, yes, Mr. Whitwer, I am your emperor. Now make the vowel sounds correctly this time. You know, and it was, that's what we would do.

So now, you know, now I wish I could bump into him and be like, I have learned to use my voice in unnatural ways. Palpatine. Is it possible to learn this power, Mr. Whitworth? Not from a Jedi. You know, so... That is perfect. So, good Lord. So the Star Wars thing has been really fun. The mall character, we have done now what feels like countless hours of that. They don't pay well, huh? You know what's hilarious about that? What? They, the thing I've learned about Lucasfilm, and it's true today, as it was, back in the independent, when it was an independent studio days, they're very loyalty based. They're so, they don't pay a lot, but they bring you back, back, back. God, they're like,

if you ever ask them for a favor, they're just like, what can we do? You know, oh, can I, you know, can I do some stuff for my album at Skywalker Ranch? Like, yeah, we'll set it up. Are you serious? Crazy stuff. They, they treat me so well. And my managers have now realized, like, guys, it is, you realize if Lucasfilm asks us for anything, just say yes, because they're sweethearts. Then they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, and they, unlike other people where they say oh it'll be a great favor if you did this they don't remember favors in this business they don't care they're trying to get you to do something lucas film actually if they say could you do us a favor they remember that you did that for them right so so yes no one got

animated series as you know people get paid scale right right right but lucas film does this wonderful thing where they're like oh you know Darth mall is uh in this brisk iced tea commercial i'm like oh what cool do you think that they're like oh no no no don't worry the license basically says they have to use who we say they use. They're using you. So have fun making a bunch of money on that. You know, I mean, they're. So there you're going to make another 10, 20 grand. Dude, that brisk commercial was more than that, my friend. That was probably the most money I'd ever made for the time that I put in. It was like no time at all. And it was insane. So Lucasfilm takes care of people. They, they're, they take care of me. They're awesome,

man. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'd be a Stormtrooper for free. You know what's funny is I've asked, I remember asking a Lucasfilm producer. I'm like, why have you guys hired me at every year for 15 years. I mean, I've been underfoot all the time. Because you're good. Constantly, well, they were sweet and said that, but they said, I'm like, I'm they're like, because you stay out of our way, Sam. I'm like, what do you mean?

I'm like, I'm constantly bugging you guys. Well, what's going on with this? What's going on with that? Who's so and so? And he's like, yeah, you're always asking about plot points. You're never asking for a job. You're always asking what's happening with, you know, the Mandalorian? Nerd.

What's go? What's R2D2 thinking at this point? You know what I mean? Like, they're like, your questions are always nerd based. but you never ever ask us for a job you stay out of our way so they're like be easy to work with yeah they they they have a very chill mentality over there where someone who's pumping himself up and trying to look at we were talking about i'm so important they don't like that no they actually like it who does who does what did george lucas do he's like you know he's going in for a rehearsal

they're not no like uh he's reading people for han solo and uh he's going in and oh harrison what are you doing here? Oh, hey, George. I'm just trying to build a trellis here for, you know, the studio. Oh, that's great. Anyway, good to see you, Harrison. It was great to see you. Hey, you know, Harrison's working on your trellet. Yeah, yeah, he is. He was great in American graffiti. We need a reader for these, and we're short, one hand solo. Let's just have Harrison. Do you think, hey, Harrison. You know, George. Do you want to read, can you do the reader for this? uh yeah fuck it okay and then he's hon solo you sound exactly like harrison ford no one does harrison for there's there's there's there's young harrison ford hon solo i'm captain of the millennium falcon

chuter tells me you're looking for passage to the alderan system then there's then there's a grumpy harrison forward he doesn't give a fuck about anything but you know the thing is is he's actually kind of a tidy bear because he gave key a big hug because of everything everywhere all at once. A short round is... You're going to teach me how to do this. It's, you know, here's the cool thing about all the voice stuff that I've been given over the years is that you necessarily have to learn how to use your voice in different ways.

And so as a on-camera actor, I now know how to do that job differently, you know, which is fun. Your way, all right, this is called shit talking with Sam Whitworth. These are my top tier of your patrons. This is rapid fire. Do it. You got to answer quickly. This is my top-deer patrons. They save the show.

The patrons in general save the show. Go to inside of you. Dot com slash, no, patreon.com slash inside of you, join, support the show. We need to join. Meg Kay, being human was and still is one of my favorite shows. As a cast, you guys had chemistry that is so rare. And could you tell, you could tell that all of you not only got a long off camera, but genuinely like each other as well. I'd love to know if you had a favorite storyline or least favorite storyline from the show,

rapid fire favorite storyline um was uh basically all of it except and i wasn't crazy about season two that would be my least favorite storyline i felt that we got too gothie and i'm like no it's being human put him with people and that's the comedy is my character is just he's like this mysterious vampire and this and that and then he has to deal with being at a grocery store and weird funny shit that's that's kind of like jeff goblum a little bit really oh i want to do you do a jeff no do that again right here's my character is a so if i so if you do that and you start stuttering a little more yeah yeah yeah oh yeah hey mr you work on that it's close all right yeah all right angela f what was the most challenging part of filming being human the long long days getting my

ass kicked day and oh you know some of those bruises you see them in the show they were real they didn't have to put bruises on me because i already had them in the appropriate spots so bruise campbell over there dev necks and sam you said once you like science fiction with class so for you what are the key ingredients to classify it as much. If it's about something, has to be about something. You can't just do a science fiction story. It's going to be like, no, no, no, we're doing what it feels like to be, um, you know, someone who has been broken up with.

Oh, we're doing a story about how you find your way in the world. We're doing, it's always got to be about, oh, we're doing a story about drug addiction. It's got to be about something. You can do that. I mean, notice that I'm taking on kind of a Shatner thing. Shatner. It's got to be about something. Michelle, I know you're a huge Star Wars nerd.

Who is your all time favorite character in one? Why? Luke Skywalker. Do you do a look Skywalker impression? I don't. No, no, no, no. That's a tough one. That's a tough one.

He does the, he does everyone's voices, but no one can do his. Leanne, did you read any of the Archie comics before appearing in Riverdale? I did not. I did not. And nor did I know what I was doing on Riverdale. Joshua D. If you could only do one live action role between Star Killer from the Force Unleashed or Deacon St. John from Days Gone, which one would you choose and why?

son of a bitch um deacon basically was a live action role you know they basically shot us in mocap stage so that was all on camera star killer the mocap wasn't quite up to snuff at that point technologically so i'd love to go back to star killer and and show what we were doing more right because the performance only came through partially so what are you doing now hilarious no no no no you i'm just kidding no you know what they if you're doing something And plug it. Lucasfilm. And what's your handle on Instagram?

S. Whitwer 1 on Instagram. Okay. But I'm going to say this. I, yesterday they aired an episode where I got to voice General Kale on Willow. And that was fun. Fuck you. General Kale.

Played by Pat Roach. Pat Roach is, right? No. Dude. See that guy next to you? That dude right there? Harrison Ford. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Pat Roach is like the boss battle in Indiana Jones about four different times. I think actually one was cut. But you remember Temple of Doom, the big guy on the conveyor belt? Yeah. The big dude who's punching the hell of him. Pat Roach. Remember the Nazi, the bald guy who fights him on the flying wing?

Yeah. That's Pat Roach. Remember the guy... He died, right? Yeah, he's no longer with us, unfortunately. But you remember also the guy who fought Indy in the Marion Ravenwood Bar when it's on fire. Yes. Boom.

That's Pat Roach. He's all over the place. And they just make him look different and you just never recognize him. But he's, you know, he's the damn Nazi who's the bald guy with the big, you know, oh, come here, come here, you know. And last thing, last thing. One by one quickly, do as many impressions as you can, saying the name and then doing it. You did Harrison Ford.

All right. All right. Here we go. Harrison Ford is here talking to you. There's a good friend of mine over here. Well, that's right. It's Morgan Freeman. I just want to say that Michael Rosenbaum's podcast gives me.

me great peace of mind. Pretty good. And then of course, this one that you do, which is this guy, and he sometimes talks like this, but you actually worked with them. So what the fuck am I doing? This is this great thing because the thing is that you can do your Arnold Schwarzenegger, you know, and you can do it. And you can come on, do it.

Kill me. I'm here. Do it now. But the thing is, is that my friend Glenn Howardton told me that my short guy, you know, Schwarzenegger became better, the more smug I got. That's right. You're idiot. Let me tell you something about,

can you imagine what it's like to be me six times, Mr. Olympia, right? Lou, you're doing great. I mean, you're never going to be quite the best, but you'll be second best, and that's great. But also listen to me here because I just, I can't lose. I love it. Right? It does it.

So do it. Come on. Crazy. The FBI is going to pay me to learn how to surf. That's Keanu Reeves. I know exactly what that is. That's, um... And then, um...

Point break. Um, prequel Palpatine. Every single Jedi is now an enemy of the Republic. Return of the Jedi, uh, Palpatine. Everything it has transpired has done so according to my design. Your friends up there in the sanctuary moon are walking into a trap. As is your rebel fleet. Um, you know what?

In the morning, and this is what I'm working on. So it's not going to be good because it has only works the first thing in the morning, but I'm going to try to do it right now. Because in the morning, I have very deep tones, which I don't exactly have. But I've learned how to do in the morning a passable James Earl Jones. You broke into my house, stole my property, murdered my servants and my parents. and my pets

and that is what grieves me the most I'm working on it that's pretty good that's right on the cusp it's not there yet it's not there yet but why not show

what I'm working on you know I'm trying to think like you're sitting here about to fall over every night from learning to do the voice

of James Jones so I know I'm trying to get there trying to get there that's awesome dude I do a bad shatner I do a bad whole bunch of guys well that was that was freaking plenty wow that was amazing this has been an

absolute joy you have fun yeah dude it just was two dudes talking just two dudes talking i just dropped something uh-oh you the part of indiana jones fell off god i've got to learn how to do indiana jones i got to learn how to do that i've got to learn how to do that what do you do what do you just sort of here's the thing you see he actually went to high school about two miles from my house in Chicago. So there's the Chicago thing that he's got going on. So this is a little bit of a Chicago. I got a friend who's a buddy who sort of talks like this a little bit.

So he's already halfway there. But the whole thing. And then when he gets excited, you know, you open up the voice a little bit. You know, what you did is you took the staff in a certain place at a certain, nah, see, I'm losing it now. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Three PO. What is it?

Not entirely stable. I'm glad you're here. to tell us these things. Shut, what is it? Chewy, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive. You know, that whole thing. Short round.

Yeah, that was, what, he has those, those yelling lies, right? Like, you know. Oh my God. I could listen to this forever. Shorty. Yeah, you're going to teach me that. All right, this has been an absolute treat.

Thank you for allowing me to be inside of you. I would love to do this again with you sometime. You have so much to talk about. We didn't even get into any of it or half of it. Yeah. But it was just life. It's life stuff. Sometimes you've got to do life.

That's talk. I was, I appreciate that you have, that you know about the deep walking. Because people just stay up here. That's what I always say. You gotta get to the deep walking because that's when he really. Well, also he can be subtle. He's like, your son, fuck it, it is. That bitch who a girlfriend, it took my narcotics.

Now, I know you know what they are. There it is, there is. So tell me before I do damage, you won't walk away from. He does like little things, but I don't know. Well, there's, there's an area in the voice that is, that you can really, if you key into it. Clowns. That's right. Down here.

Down here. Down here. You know, where Liam Mason's voice exists. Yeah. You go down here on your channel. This next part is going to be very difficult. It's right. They're going to take you.

I have a particular set of skins. We can do this all day. We love you. I love you. Thanks, man. Awesome, man. I liked him. You know, it's funny because we've talked about having him on the podcast for a while and I've talked to him.

like, what am I coming on? And I kind of lost touch. And I'm like, people have been asking about him. And he's a really great guest. He was really fun. He was knowledgeable. He has done so much work. He has a good spirit about him and some great stories.

And I thank you, Sammy. Thanks for coming on the podcast, man. I really enjoyed it. And of course, just hopefully you guys will stick around and listen to every episode, subscribe subscribe to every episode subscribe thanks for being here right let's get the uh top tier patrons yeah let's just do it all right nancy de lea sara v little lisi ukego g l b brian h nico p robert b or jason w sophia m christian k and i see r r joshua d jennifer n stacey l jamaul b mike e ldon suprimo 99 more santiago m jad w lean p jine r maya mattie belinda belinda and dave

N? But Dave H. Correct. Think Hasselhoff. But not David Hasselhoff. Dave Hasselhoff. Dave Hasselhoff. Dave H. Tave of the T. Tom and Liliana A. Talia M. Betsy D. Chad, L. Dan N. Big Stevie W. Angel Emery N. C. Corey DeBnexon, Michelle A. Jeremy C. Brandy D. Camille S. Joney B. Joney B. Jeter L. Jeter L. J.J.N. L. J. J.N. L. J. J. M. J. J. J. J. J. J. R. M. J. J. J. J. Andrew. Is that O. E. G. 77? Andreas N. Oracle. Carina N. Amanda R. Jan B. Kevin E. Stephanie K. J. J. J. J. L. L. J. M.N.J., J. M.E., J. Meredeth, Y. Sh., and C. Thank you guys from the bottom of my heart for being patrons and supporting the podcast. Some of you've been here for years.

and, you know, I always feel bad. I'm like, am I giving enough merch when I give my boxes? And I try to make a personalized note. And I hope you're enjoying it all when you stick around. And thank you. Thank you so much for being here. And, you know, we don't talk that much. You know, usually there's a lot of shows, I guess,

that really talk in the beginning about things that happen. I guess if something happened, you and I would talk about it, right? Yeah. But, you know, nothing major has happened. Yeah. So, there you have it. We love you. From the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California.

I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Deis. I'm also here. Yes. Hi, guys. We love you. We do. We love you.

Thank you. And always, Ryan, what do we say? Always? No. No. Be good to yourself. Take care of yourself. Take care of yourself.

Be good to yourself. That's the one. That's it. We'll see you. Hold on a small bill too. Yeah, that too. Football season is here. Oh, man.

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