Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Saved by the Bell's MARK-PAUL GOSSELAAR: Don’t Take It for Granted

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

Mark-Paul Gosselaar (Saved by the Bell, Franklin & Bash) joins us this week to share why despite his multi decade long career in this industry he still maintains a glass half empty attitude after the countless times he’s been disappointed along the way. He expands this idea into our personal lives and the thought that nothing is forever, so don’t take anything for granted. We also talk about how Mark’s ego took a hit during the period after Save by the Bell ended, his experience as a child actor, and his surprise with projects like Pitch and Mixedish. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Wendy's most important deal of the day has a fresh lineup. Pick any two breakfast items for $4. New four-piece French toast sticks, bacon or sausage wrap, biscuit or English muffin sandwiches, small hot coffee, and more. Limited time only at participating Wendy's Taxes Extra. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Thank you for being with me. Being with me for your week. Your week's very busy.

And I thank you for listening to this podcast. You have a lot of choices And you're choosing to be with me You're choosing to be with me And Ryan's here I'm here Don't forget Ryan If you don't want to be with me

You can be with Ryan I'm choosing to be with you Thank you for choosing to be with Michael Yeah and he's still got the mustache Some people have commented on the mustache They like it I forgot it was still there I think I like the mustache

When you have some scruff with it Yeah it's a little less Charring Porny Porny Yeah Porny Yeah that's true

True. We'll get to the guest in a second, but I'm just going to let you know that I'm going to be in St. Louis, May 13th with Tom Welling. We're going to do with Smallville Nights on a Friday night. So look at that St. Louis con. We're going to post something here soon. So May 13th, that weekend in St. Louis. I'll be in Liverpool. May 21st, or that weekend around there. June 10th, Illinois, Metropolis Con, and Metropolis, Illinois. June 17th for two weeks, Australia. Perth. and Sydney. July 28th, Raleigh and August 12th, Boston. So make sure you come see me. Please come see me. Also, the inside of you online store is open. If you want to get any cool merch, small of those stuff, there's smallville script signed, lunch boxes, inside of you tumblers, tons of cool stuff. So go to the inside of you online store. And also if you want any Sunspin merch or you want to zoom me. You could zoom me on sunspin.com and there are zooms there.

You could book the band. I'm on cameo. You know, that's all that stuff. And what are our handles if you want to follow us? If this is your first time listening, I hope you'll join us. At Inside of You pod on Twitter, at Inside of You podcast on Instagram and Facebook.

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Inside of you. That's P-A-T-R-E-O-N, Patreon.com slash inside of you. And, you know, however you want to support the podcast. There's a lot of cool stuff on there. There's tears. I send merch. I'll send you a message after you join. We can use your help. So thank you. This week's guest, Mark Paul Gossler. I've been wanting to get him on the podcast for a while. He's fantastic. He's such a great guy. You've seen him and everything. Mixed-ish. The Passage. He's been on tons of shows and movies. You know him a lot by Saved by the Bell.

Zach Morris. So I finally got him on the podcast. And he was very open and gave me a lot of good stuff. Gave us a lot of good stuff. So without further do, let's get inside of Mark Paul Gossler. It's my point of you.

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. Wait a minute. We're starting this podcast off with you have a bad memory. I really do. How have you done all these shows? All these shows that require you learning a lot of dialogue and your memory isn't good.

Because I always say the same thing. Like, I can't remember shit. I have to go over shit a million times. before i get it right i have a flash memory and i can remember things like if you told me if you give me a piece of paper with a monologue on it i could probably get it in about five minutes no problem but retaining it it goes out when i walk out the door it's gone and i just that's like i was like i was listening to how it's stern yesterday and he was saying like his memory is like a fishbow like he goes to the other side of the fishbow and it's a new experience that's how i am kind of

I guess I live in the moment, which is scary because a lot of great things have happened to me, and I don't remember a lot of it, and I feel bad for the people that experienced it with me. For instance, my wife, right? She'll say, do you remember this? And I'm like, I don't, but it doesn't mean I don't love you. And it doesn't mean that I didn't have a great time doing it. It just my brain doesn't work that way. Wow.

So give me an example of something you might not remember, maybe going to, you know, the botanical gardens together. something that was really nice and sweet and it was like five years ago you won't be able to retain that or you kind of it's vague very vague i'd say vague um there's certain yeah i mean again i how would i remember these things because i can't remember you know how can i remember those experiences and give you an example if i can't remember them this was the whole reason that i started the podcast uh my my podcast um was because i don't remember my experience on, saved by the bell, to a certain degree. And the degree of that was, I don't remember the work of it.

And I don't remember the day-to-day of it. But I remember little experiences here and there when we'd go offset, when we'd go to Ed DeBevix, and we hang out with other child actors, when we go on location of Palm Springs or Hawaii or things like that. You remember little bits and pieces like that. But just the other day, I mean, Tiffany, who. if people don't know, played Kelly. She was talking to me, and she goes,

remember when I got my license and I drove up to you and I got it in an accident with you in the car? And I go, you did? I have no recollection. Wow. And that was a big thing for her. And she says, yeah, you help me, like, work through it. And I have no idea what she's talking about.

It's as if I'm talking to a stranger. That is unbelievable how you just don't remember. I mean, I remember shit. But, like, I'm not one who could learn a monologue in five minutes. I'll take a week to learn it and then I'll know it inside out and it kind of stays with me for a little while but I think I'd rather have your memory

in a sense that you could just pick up something, do it and then I don't know I guess there's a bad side to both yeah I agree I mean you remember when your kids were born right yes I have four of them so I have four chances to remember but yes I remember

I remember the burns where did you and I meet you think the first time. You're never going to get that. I think didn't you play hockey. I used to play hockey. You know what? It's funny. I was I was trying to remember if this story is true or not because it lives in my head so I had no one to ask. But when I got NYPD Blue, I had just gotten off of a WB show and Smallville was on CW, right?

WB and then went to CW right. Right. And, and, um, Because wasn't it like WB and UPN and then they all merged into like the CW or something like that? I know that Warner Brothers, WB became CW. I don't know if UPN did. Did they, Ryan? I don't know. I don't know.

Fuck, you're asking the wrong person. The story was, is that I was on a WB show and it was pilot season. And I actually went in to go read for a Stephen Botchgo pilot called Philly with Kim Delaney. and before I walked in they had already offered it to Tom Everett Scott who I did a movie with a few years prior and I said fuck it I'm going I'm still going in I want to go in and I want to get this role

I really like the role and I think I can reverse their offer which you know it doesn't happen in this business but I went in and it was the first time I met Stephen at the end of it he says you're really good and I'd like to work with you and I thought you know he's just being nice and uh he goes i know it's pilot season but keep me up to date if you get if you get something let me know and i thought that's an interesting thing so we tried with my

management at the time uh we tried to get anything we possibly could and small bill came around and i looked at it and i go i'm not right for this this isn't my jam i i'm not a i don't know much about the superhero world i didn't grow up with it um i didn't quite understand the character but I remember going in for Smallbill and really shitting the bed on that interview. But it was just so that I could possibly get something in pilot season so that I could go back to Stephen Botchko and bring it to him. And I think that I don't know if you and I met while we were reading

or if you were offered that. No, I read. I read for that. It was one of those things where they said, you know, 700 guys came in. I'm like, what are they fucking doing wrong? Why don't you tell me what they're doing wrong? That was the kind of thing. Did you, so you read for it.

I did read for it. And I don't know. You are right for the part. You were, I think you were right for the, I mean, no. Not then. Not then. Not then. I was, not then.

I was, you know, I was a very immature, 28 year old, I think, at the time. And I wasn't right then. It took me a while to, to blossom, as they say, Michael. But after that, I got, I actually didn't need to get anything in that pilot season because Stephen Boshko came. and off the main role on NYPD Blue to replace Rick Schroeder. Wow. It all worked out.

How hard was it, by the way, working on a series like NYPD Blue? Because it was really popular, and it was, I mean, it's pretty intense, right? Yeah, I'm glad we're not doing it now. I'm glad I'm not, like, walking onto a show like that, like, that now, because with all social media and everyone has an opinion, and you can read about everyone's opinions. Back then, early 2000, there was one guy with a blog, um, uh, Allen Seppenwall, who, you know, still writes and critique stuff. And he had a fan page.

And I just remember reading that I was going to ship the bed. I was going to bring the franchise down. I was horrible. And by the way, I thought they were right. Like, I was literally, I was literally thinking the same thing. Like, I'm a California kid. I'm playing a New York detective alongside Dennis Fron. who was arguably the best actor of that generation.

You know, he had been nominated nine times for an Emmy through the course of that 12-year run. And I'm coming in as this kid who, I didn't feel I approved myself. I didn't read for the role. So Stephen Boschko basically hired me off of an audition that I did for another role. But I, you know, I'm sure you've done things

where you've been offered things and you doubt yourself, you're like, do they, do they really think I can do this character? Can I do this? Do I think I can do this character? Yeah. And you know what's scarier is when you actually get an offer? You'd almost rather audition because they see you audition and they're like, yes, that's what you're doing is right. Because when you go get an offer and you've gone set and you start doing something, like, no.

Yeah. What do you? I don't know what the fuck to do. You just gave me an offer. What am I? Then you feel kind of lost. Yeah. That's terrifying.

I'm sure you and I are the same way. I have no problem going into an audition and being rejected, right? Not getting it. Oh, I've done that a many times. Whatever. I mean, it happens to all of us, right? We go in, we give our best. We're not the guy.

Maybe it's a look. Maybe it's our read. Maybe it's the casting director, the producers, having a bad day, whatever it is. But the one thing that I would think hurts the most is being fired off of something, getting something, being on a set, being around your peers. And then going, yeah, you know what? This isn't what we wanted and then being fired.

Have you been the worst? Have you been fired? The only one that I remember being fired for was a commercial. I believe it was for like WAMO or something like that. And I got fired off the commercial. My consolation prize was like a box full of toys. But you'll like this. I was replaced by Paul Walker, who at the time, like Paul and I were the two blondes

in the industry at that time. You know, we were probably eight or nine at the time. and we were the guys that would do all the commercials. If you needed a blonde kid, it was out of Paul Walker, Mark Paul. Wow. You know, I remember, I remember getting fired. It was only the one time I got fired, but they made me the offer. It was a Will Ferrell and McKay show, a big top show, and they just made me an offer.

I had a meeting, and they made me an offer, and I went in. And the whole time, they're like, you're killing it. We're watching Dailies. the director's coming up to me every day oh my god you're killing it you're killing it you're killing it we ended up having a screening at my house of the show with the cast and everybody and then two weeks later they called me the producer in tears and said well the good news is i mean they want to pick us up for five episodes but we have to let you go they want to replace your character they think your character's too dark and says the wrong shit and and i was like what we just screened this

at my house and every day you're telling me how great i am and it just shows you how it all is bullshit you just you never know when it's going to happen and i was just like holy fuck they just let me go i've never been let go and it just it is crushing but then i remember sitting in my office and kind of looking outside going all right you're alive breathe breathe you got a dog here i love your dog you love your dog you got a house you're lucky to be here i started this you know these affirmations you reaffirming that you know hey you know you're okay you're gonna be okay but it was it was tough to be let go especially off like your heroes will feral and like you know wow i'm going to be really working with will feral it's his show and look the show never made it to air

uh they never even shot those five episodes but still that feeling i had was like here was my chance you know adam mackay wrote wrote wrote me an email hey it was nothing you did i'd love to work with you in the future of course that never happens how many times do you hear that besides bachco telling you i want to work with you and it actually happens. It almost never happened. Has that ever happened before with you? No, the only guy that's been that way for me has been Bocco because I did NYPD Blue. And then he went and jumped to Commander-in-Chief a year after we wrapped NYPD Blue.

And then he did a show called Raising the Bar and he hired me for that as well. And then years later, he actually gave me my second directing gig on one of his shows called Murder in the First. but he always thought of me he always he was he was really good to me it was like a father figure he was the first guy I went to when I when I got a divorce

and I needed a place to stay I went to his palace in the in the palisades and said hey could I can I rent a room for a little bit he goes what'd you do shit happens man

and he was like he was like a great father he always gave it to me straight. I remember sitting in his kitchen. It was late because, you know, these things happen out of nowhere. And he just said, what are your plans? I said, I'm going to try to make this work. And he just said, don't. It's okay. Let it go. He's like, he got a good run out of it. Yeah. Yeah, he gave it to me straight, man. He just said, just let it go. And he was right. He was right. He was right. He was right yeah yeah inside of you is brought to you by rocket money i'm going to speak to you about

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Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Are you one of those guys that just like you don't want you don't like to fail so you wanted to like, I got to make this work because I'm kind of like that. I don't want things. I don't want to fail.

I want to, how do we work this out? How do we figure this out? And you're like that? Yeah, I think so. I mean, don't you think it's our ego then? I mean, I don't like to have, I don't like to have those check marks on my, on my resume. You know, it's, uh, um, I, I, I feel like I, I try, I like being in control of certain things. Other things, I'm a Pisces.

So I kind of go, yeah, certain things I like to keep in control other things. I'm like, oh, fuck it, man. Not, not worth my time. Right. Um, and even with a divorce, like I tried to make it work. to a certain point. And then once I realized it was over, over, I moved on very quickly.

And that was it. It was done. It happens every time I'm on these zooms. I raise my hand. Yeah. And on here it says you're waving to me. I'm like, what the fuck is he doing? Why is there a hand waving at me?

If I could figure that out, I'm literally, you know, because we do these zooms for auditions now. And so you have to meet people on Zooms or whatever. And I'll raise my hand, I'm a hand talker. So I raise my hand. And then on Zoom, it says, But I'm raising my hand. I'm like, I'm trying not to.

Jesus. Do you get pretty personal on your podcast? What's your podcast called? It's called Zach to the Future. We're taking a hiatus right now. Maybe indefinitely. We did about 50 episodes. We were 50 away from completing the run of the show.

But basically it was every episode we'd start from the very beginning. And it was me and my co-host, Dash. Driscoll who wrote Zach Morris's trash. It's a great YouTube series where he basically will, you know, spell it out why my character Zach Morris was trash. And he started as a sort of a funny little, you know, sketch thing for Funny or Die. And then it took off. And he did, I think he did about four seasons of that.

And I thought, I'm going to do a podcast and want to do with this guy. he's also a writer on the reboot of Save by the Bell and yeah so we started this podcast because I don't remember my experience it was just sort of like a re-education of the show and I'd watch the show a few times take notes see if I could jog any sort of memory of the experience and we were just talking about it being now or just sort of just bullshitting

how do you feel when you watch yourself I mean are you an actor because some some actors hate watching watching themselves. They loat that. You hate it? Hey. Even when you were young, even when you were young. Torture.

No, I could appreciate certain things. I could appreciate certain things. But then I would bum myself out because I then work with the new generation of Saved by the Bell, the new cast. And I go, God, there's so much more fucking talented than I ever was back then. Like, why did I, why did my career go the way it did from that? Like, that to me was mediocre. compared to what this new generation is doing. So I look at it at that point.

Like I say, I could have done that better. I could have taken it more serious. I try to learn from things, but I learn from experiences on set. I don't learn from watching myself because then it just becomes like a, it's already set, man. It's like, you know, I can't do anything about it, right?

I'm just going to go to sleep grumpy. Is there something, though, that you watched, that you go, you know what? I was fucking good in that. You know what? I appreciate my work in that. There is. Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. What is that? Do you recall? I really like pitch. When I was on pitch, I really like that show. I like the passage. I like some of my work that I've done recently. Even on Mixish, there was some funny things that I thought.

I kind of got right. And there's a lot. I still, you know, feel like I got wrong. But I think it's easier to watch myself if I'm playing a character. If, you know, I'm sure it's the same for you. If you're outside of Michael and you're playing a complete character, I can't judge it as much because, you know, it's, and I guess I look back at like saved by the belt,

and that was a character. That wasn't me. I wasn't a cool kid. I didn't even have blonde hair. I mean, I was, you know, I'm a, my mother's Indonesian. My father is Dutch. I come from a mixed family, and I'm playing the whitest kid in America, you know. that's true and it's and but you think like oh i look back and say oh that's a character but

i just some of the choices that i made um with the dialogue i i i just feel i could have done better but did you have a lot of experience before then with acting not really i mean commercials and stuff yeah so well you mean it's you can't be that hard on yourself when you really hadn't done anything except for commercials going up but look at these kids nowadays look at these kids i mean just watch any show that has a kid on it and they're amazing. Like, they have such talent. Not only that, they're acting,

they're sane, they're dancing, they're just entertainers. But don't you think some of it has to do with the, how it's written, the quality of the work? I mean, you guys are unsaved by the bell. No offense, but it was like kind of fluff, fun, you know, right? Don't say that, Michael, you know,

I got in trouble one time for saying that. Well, remember, it's a difference. No, I agree with you. I agree with you. I totally agree with you, but 12 years ago, I had said that the work I did on Save by the Bell was not breaking bad, you know, basically saying that the writing was not breaking bad. Well, am I right? I mean, anybody would say, tell you you're right.

Oh, I got to, I remember being on a bicycle ride after I said that. I said it in some, you know, press line or something. I was on a bicycle ride. And some buddy from TMZ got my number and called me. And I didn't even know, you know, back then, I just picked up the phone. Ella, would you like to, you know, comment on your comment about saved by the bell? Because, you know, it sounds like you're ungrateful for your experience. And I should have said, oh, fuck, no.

It's not what I meant. Of course, that's not what you meant. It's just obvious. It's like this is a kid show. This was the, what was it, the 80s, the 90s. It was just kind of, it was on early. It wasn't written for like a darker, we get it. But, like, I think that if somebody gave you a different material at that age and you were really working on it, things could have been different in that, in that show.

Maybe. Maybe. I mean, you know, maybe. But yeah, it's that, that, that, that, uh, that, uh, that show is precious to some people still is. It's precious to a lot of people. I mean, it's, look at the duration. I mean, how long it's lasted with the, the, the, the reunions and the, you know, it's, uh, it's exciting. I mean, it's something that you've been doing. since, well, I mean, the last, for since when? What year did you start? 89. And the last reunion of it was, we're all recently, right? Yeah, we just finished up last season in July, well, the second season of the Peacock reboot.

We just finished in September of the last year. And how much fun is that? Do you like it? I really do. Like I said, the cast is amazing. It's fun to work with the OG cast as well. one of the best experiences that I've had was directing last season one of the episodes

so getting to direct the new cast the old cast it was a lot of fun that's amazing did you know growing up in California do you think things were it was harder for you to grow up in California than it would be if you were grown up in the Midwest or somewhere away from the whole industry

do you think you know things would have been a lot different for you no not really because I always I always think that I grew up outside of the industry, I grew up in the Valley. I grew up in Sun Valley. And for me, my world, I always say this, but my world was very brown, sepia-toned in a way. We lived in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood. The other white people were sometimes like Hell's Angels or bikers. It's a little rough crowd in Sun, Sunland, Sun Valley, Tonga. Right.

It was a rough crowd back then. And I used to, I used to, I used to. to go to a private school, sort of halfway between Sun Valley and, let's say, Studio City. And it was a private school there, and you would travel down Laurel Canyon, heading sort of southwest, south, and you would see Mahaland, and you would see the green hills. And I always, like, you know, and then when I'd go for auditions, we'd go over Mahal and we'd go down into Hollywood. And for me, that was like green. It was success. It was different than where I grew up where, you know, everyone had manicured lawns in my lawn, manicured, but, you know, next door neighbors might be dirt. And I grew up around a lot of dirt. And so I didn't feel

like I grew up in the industry in Hollywood, in Beverly Hills. You didn't feel that at all. No. And, you know, my really good friend, Breck and Meyer, he kind of grew up in the hills and went to Beverly Hills High and sort of was, you know, hanging out with people. But when I, when I, when I went back home. I hung out with just civilians in a way. I didn't I didn't hang out with people in the industry. My parents weren't in the industry. It was a fluke for me to get in. I just kind of got in on a whim. What was that? I'm sure you've talked about that. What is it? No, it was I was four years old and my mom had a friend who did like print work. She was a model that did print work and she said, the typical thing. Your kid's cute. You should get him in front of the

camera and that's exactly what we did we just sort of used her agent to get into the business and I did print work for a while and then did commercials and then theatrical stuff but I grew up in the valley I I um I did not feel a part of the business in any way right outsider you're uh look I had a dysfunctional film I always talk about this shit in the podcast I had dysfunction but my parents stayed together they should have got divorced a long fucking time ago I always said that I like, I wish you would have. No, we wanted you to get through high school. My, fuck you.

You were so fucked up. It was way worse for us. You should have got divorced. Your parents got divorced at a young age, right? Well, I don't know that they legally got divorced. They were separated. It was really odd because my dad would sometimes be there and then sometimes he wouldn't. So I never knew, you know, what you were going to get.

And then I know that he had an apartment somewhere and I stayed there a few times. but they were never officially divorced. Neither one of them really wanted to give it up, even though it was over. I didn't know that it was over as long as I can remember. But yeah, they never moved on. Although my dad was with the same woman that he was with at the time that they split until the day he died with the same woman.

She was an angel to him. Her name was Angela. and you know she just became a part of our family and sweet lady and she took care of my father when he was sick and and but yeah they but they never I don't think they ever got a divorce what year did he pass last year oh yeah not like 20 20 was that just brutal for you was it was it something that you were expecting or was it just kind of happened yeah it was something we were expecting it was we were expecting it he um he was in poor health and and we sort of I knew it.

I was working at the time and I got a chance to see him two weeks before he passed away. It was one of those things that we knew he was going to pass. He passed pretty quickly after that. And your parents, they were always supportive with you acting and doing all these things?

Yeah, I think so. Again, they were never in the industry. They had no desire to be a part of the industry. My father worked in sort of a manufacturing plant for aluminum and torrents. And he would make that drive from Sun Valley to Torrance every day, which was crazy. It's probably why he wanted to get a divorce so he could lift closer.

But my mom was, you know, I'm putting air quotes up right now, was my manager until I was 18. Wow. They were supportive in the way that you're supportive of your kid doing Little League. You know, they took me to every game. they rooted for me from the sidelines told you they loved you

told you they support you told you they loved you all that stuff all that stuff I had nothing but love for my parents I heard that word I love you every day wow but I think they also love

the the monetary aspect of being a child actor you know we have to put some of it into a trust but then others you know like wow we got a card and it has the license plate says

for MPG oh well thank you wait a minute mark i can't drive it i can't drive it but thank you that's my car yeah but they socked a lot of money away from you and i got to think that you know being on a show you probably didn't get paid that much when you're on saved by the bell no i think at the height of it again i don't know the finances because i wasn't involved at that time but i think at the height of it we are getting paid maybe 5,000 a week for a show 5,000 a week on a show now you think that's a lot of money 5,000 a week well you got agents and taxes and you're walking out of there with two grand a week on a show that's

a hit show that people are what kids are watching all across the world and you're making $5,000 an episode. I think when people assume that when you're on TV, they assume you're making millions of dollars, but that's not where you're making your bucks. No, it's not where you're making their bucks. And then you think like, well, you went to syndication for us. I get syndication checks. I mean, I giggle about it because somebody had to print that on a check.

but it's like 13 cents, 10 cents for, you know, hundreds of shows being shown. It's run its course. Jesus. So, no, I don't make, and then you would think like, oh, well, what about merchandise? Well, we got screwed out of that, too. We don't get any money for merchandise. You know, we don't get much. So when you see our names as producers on the Peacock show, it's a nice way for us to be a part of the show again.

Right. And we have always from day one, well, I shouldn't say from day one. I'd say there was a period there where we were all struggling to break free of that, you know, the sort of stigma attached to say by the bell. But for the most part, we've all been very positive about our experiences with that show. It's also amazing that you've, are you guys all still friends mostly? Sure. Yeah, I think so.

And, you know, I read, and, you know, of course, this is old news, but it said you actually dated three of your co-stars, but you're probably a kid when that happened. Yeah, no. I mean, it all happened in the span of the show. None of us dated after the show was canceled. And so there was no bad blood about that. There was like, who was the one that you think you crushed on the hardest? Like, it wasn't just dating like you thought you were in love with. I mean, I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. So I think I can say that I, I probably didn't have the biggest crush on Tiffany only because Tiffany and I had a different relationship. Her and I were very, we're almost like siblings in a way.

I know that's hard for people who watch the show. It's like, Zach and Kelly were siblings, but that's, we really had a closeness that that's what that closeness translated into. And it's still, to this day, she's probably the closest one that I, that I have a relationship with now. Wow. Yeah, her and I, you know, probably see each other more than anyone else. And partly because I really like her husband, Brady. He's just an amazing dude. And they have good kids.

And I really like her. And I, yeah, I like her family and stuff like that. I like everyone. But Tiffany and I always had this closeness, but it translated into being siblings. And then when we kind of dated, it was just awkward. It was weird. It didn't feel as great as, like, the relationship we had before. Ever wonder how dark the world can really get?

Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, We're here to explore the wicked and reveal the grim. We are wicked and grim.

Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. You know, I know this because I think we've compared bruises or like, you know, I know that you do the cycling and the motorcross and the auto racing and all this shit. You're passionate for racing cars. Aren't you, you're pretty bruised up, aren't you? Yeah, I love that quote. His passion is racing cars. I think I said that back in 1996 when I was racing cars. Not anymore.

You don't race any cars anymore? No, I quickly realized that racing cars takes a lot of money. And I don't have four kids. I go to private school, so I can't spend my money on airplanes and cars like I used to. My background is racing motocross. I started racing when I was five. I started riding when I was three. My brother is 16 years old than me.

He's still in the industry. He is considered one of the greatest mechanics of motocross. history. Wow. And he's the one that kind of got me into it. He has four boys. They were all pro at one point in their career. And then that sort of translated into racing cars because that was a new thing. And then when that dried up, I went into racing bicycles and did road biking and did pretty well. I raced at the highest level of amateurs and traveled with a team and just had a lot of fun doing that. But yeah, I'm pretty banged up. I mean, you and I both have had surgery on our neck.

Yeah. Do you have an artificial desk in your neck? Do you have an artificial desk? No, not yet. Are you fused? No, no, no. I had the first thing where they just scope you. I know you have the fusion.

Yeah, I've had the fusion in the neck and then seven surgeries on my lower back. So, yeah. Oh, my God. Why? How did you? Just hockey and degenerative discs and, you know, hey, it's embarrassing, but I think it all started at me working in a grocery store. and we were throwing boxes stocking boxes in the back

and everybody was throwing these like boxes of Del Monte fucking fruit or whatever the hell they were and I remember catching one and I go oh man that was weird and ever since that they all started all the problems started so really when I was about 17 I was 17 so I had my first surgery when I was 18 and it just never stopped they say once you have one surgery you start having a lot and that's what sort of happened to me but you haven't had any surgeries

really no I mean I My first major injury happened when I was 16. I fractured my sternum. I tore ligaments my neck. My neck was really bad. And I never got it fixed to the point I should have. And really sort of just been aware more of my neck. I mean, if there's one thing I could tell the younger me was just take some time off.

you know and get it right because it will catch up to you at some point and it caught up for me after I did pitch um you know we were training every single day just at a level 10 and above um and then after that season I got my first shoulder surgery and then the next two years after that I got another shoulder surgery and then the year after that I got a neck surgery and those are the only surgeries I've ever had um a lot of stitches a lot of broken things but never never any surgeries do you want to race cars again at some point i'd like to yeah i'd like to but i also know that how expensive it is so how is it how expensive is it it's pretty i mean listen i i need to be on on gray's anatomy like patrick dempsey and then just basically uh use that

money to just supplement my uh racing he he's a great driver right um but he also made some great money and the more money you have the more seat time you can get the better of a driver you can be and the faster you'll go. So, and the more opportunities. So racing cars is a pretty rich man and women sport, in my opinion. How fast have you gone? What's the fastest speed you've ever gone in the car? Yeah, I don't know because a lot of the cars that I race,

they don't have speedometers, but I do remember being on a motorcycle, and I used to do road racing on motorcycles. And I was at Fontana, and I was on a street bike. It was, I think I got a loner from the Omaha at the time or Honda and the speedometer was on there and I remember going down the front straight away and looking

at the speedometer and going that size 160. Holy shit. And then, you know, going into the first turn. But that was the only time that I've ever had like a spedometer on the thing I was racing. And I were doing 160 on the front straight. Jesus. Motorcycles scare the

shit out of me. I just won't get on one. I just like, you know, you know what? I shouldn't be. No, you should be. Yeah. It's not about you driving. It's about the guys that are backing up or trying to get in the lane. They don't see you.

And that's the danger, right? I discourage a lot of my friends from getting motorcycles all the time. And I'm an advocate for motorcycles. I'm an advocate for motorcycle safety. But I always discourage people. Like, it's too dangerous, especially here in Los Angeles. I mean, I see it all the time.

You have so many, and they say, well, you know, I used to commute on a motorcycle when I was doing NYP. Blue for those four years. I commuted when I was in Atlanta. Every day all I had was a motorcycle there when I was there for six months doing the passage. I feel safer on freeways, oddly enough, because you only have to really worry about two directions, what's coming at you and possibly what's coming behind you, but you're going so fast, hopefully that you'll stay out of trouble, which is kind of weird to say. But on a street, man, it's four directions that you have to worry about what's coming at you from the sides from behind you just a lot and then if you go like and i never do

this but a lot of guys like to go to the mahal and do the roads and man that's just too fucking dangerous for me it's like if there's a pebble or a debris in the corner anything i'm going through their cyclist or a car jumps the yellow line fuck man but you're done you're done that easily that quickly too you know you you said once you always had a feeling that you're losing everything so you're a real saver. Is that still true? That you always feel like, fuck, I'm not going to have enough money. I'm not going to, what is that? Where does that come from? I don't know. I mean, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I grew up squarely middle class,

but I guess I always felt like we were kind of below middle class because the, the kids that I went to school with, I felt that they're, they, they, they, they had a better lifestyle and, you know, and then I did. And again, like I said, I always looked up towards the mahalan, the greenness and that part of the ballet compared to where we were. My parents, you know, they worked their asses off. They had great work ethic. I've thought my, I had a career going until, you know, the end of the table by the bell, and I thought, oh, you know, I'm in.

This is my job. I'm going to make a living. And then I didn't work for about two years. it was it was scary and and didn't have an income and it's not like you know i could go and get a job waiting tables because a i was still recognizable be my ego um so you know i was like detailing cars with my cousin uh to try to make a try to make a living at certain things and it's not that i'm afraid of work because i love work and i love to work with my hands i love to I love manual labor

And I I really do But the ego It was the ego really wasn't it It was the ego I was like a fucking dude I can't even walk in a mall Without people recognizing me

But I'm fighting to get a job Like what am I gonna do? What is shit? Yeah It was a bad position to be in And how long did it take you Before you started making money again And you were all right

Well the show wrapped in 94 When we did the college years and I think 96 is when I started working again. I got a TV movie for NBC of all places because we were always on NBC and I got an NBC movie that I auditioned for. It wasn't an offer. And then after that, things started happening again.

But I don't know, man. You know, it's like I think that everything is dispensable in a way. You know, nothing is in my eyes forever. And I just want to make sure that I appreciate everything that I have in my life and not take it for granted, you know, my marriage, my kids, my health. Yeah. You know, there's a point of your life where you just realize, holy shit, it's all limited, right? Like, it's, it's not, it's not, it's not, we're not going to be here forever.

Yeah, that's for sure. I think that's true. The older you get you start to think about, wow, we're all expendable. We're all going to the same place. How many years do I actually have left? And what do I really love? What do I really want to, who do I really want to, who do I really want to spend my time? with and these however many years you have, you start to think more about those things.

Yeah. When I was going through the divorce, my therapist at the time, he basically said, you know, a lot of people think life is short. He goes, but it's not. It's long. Life is long. And I was 36 when I was going through this. And he said, you've only been living your life for about 18 years.

You know, when you, when you, when you turned 18, you became an adult. you started living your life he goes you have another 50 plus years ahead of you that are all yours you can make you can it's your decisions uh and he says so think about that like the amount of time it took me to get to 36 and that felt like a lifetime and he goes but you you haven't even you you have 50 years of that left yeah wow what do you think you would have done if you didn't act I don't know. I've always been in sport. I think like every other kid I wanted to be in the Super Bowl. And, you know, I have memories of watching the 49ers in the Super Bowl,

watching Montana, Rice, Clark. You know, Clark and that catch and just, you know, having a football in the living room and just diving on the floor and having dreams of doing that one day. Yeah, probably I want to do something in sport. Always wanted to do. Do you still get sensitive? Are you sensitive to, you know, like being on a show and then it gets canceled? Because Lord knows we've all been on shows and they get canceled.

Are you one of those that you're just like when somebody goes, oh, they're going to get, you're going to get picked up, right? Are you usually like not even going there? I know it's not. As far as I'm concerned, this is probably it. What's your mentality with all that? Yeah. It's funny that you bring this up because my wife, you know, she just goes, can't you ever be happy when, you know,

It's like, if I get a show, for instance, right? And it's like, your show gets picked up. I'm like, yeah, but babe, it has to air. And then after it airs, it has to get, you know, a certain rating. And after the first year, we got to get a second year. And after that, we have to get in syndication. There's always something. Always.

And she goes, yeah, but just be happy for what it is. I go, but I don't know if I can't anymore because we've been in this business. for, I mean, I've been in for over 30 years. When did you get your side card? Probably when I was, uh, early, 23, 24. So 25 years. Yeah. I got my side card in 84.

Wow. And a lot has happened. I mean, I've had a lot of ups and downs. Um, but you just, you know, like, I, you take a show and, and like pitch, for instance. I audition for that. I fought for it. I worked my ass off to be that character. Some of the greatest material I ever got.

You know, some of the best compliments I ever had in my life from people, my peers and critics and things like that. And it doesn't go. And it's Dan Fulgerman. This Is Us and Pitch. Those are these two shows that year. This Is Us takes off and becomes what it is. And Pitch, you know, shits the bed and dies. Then you go to the passage.

Again, we get, you know, a great material and great IP and great people and last year. Then you go to Mix-Dish and you're on Mix-Dish and you're like, oh, my God, well, I can retire off of this. I'm working with Kenyon Barris and all the people from Blackish and look at the run Blackish's ad. You know, and the pedigree that you're working with and you're like, okay, I'm done. And then it goes a season and a half and it's done. See, nothing is a guarantee. nothing is a guarantee so at this point do you think you have pretty fucking thick skin where you're like you know like you know hey bring it to me i don't have any expectations

do you think now like your wife said you're going to enjoy the moment more or you still can't do that no i don't think i can i i still care too much i really do i really care about i really care about the work and i care about the people and it's a tough business for for for people who really give a shit. I always think that the less shit I gave, the easier this business would be for me, right? I mean, if you just were like, I don't fucking care. I just worry about myself.

I just worry about myself and, you know, whatever comes comes. I've never been that way in my life. I've always thought of my family first and then my, you know, the people around me. And, yeah, I think I should give less fucks. That's going to be my resolution for 2022. Give less fucks.

Give less fucks. God, it would be so nice. I think about it all the time. I just want to care less. Just if I can just care less, I'll be better off. And you try, but it's just like, I think that's where passion comes in. It's like you're so passionate that it's, it's hard to give no fucks. You know what I mean?

You're just so passionate about something. You want something to work. It doesn't. How do you just go, oh, yeah, fuck it. I don't give a shit. You give a shit because you care because you're passionate. You know what I mean? Yeah, but then you, I mean, you just.

see it in our business. There's a lot of people that don't give fucks. And man, are they successful? Yeah, I know. Fuck them. Fuck them. Hey, this is called shit talking with Mark Paul Gosseler. Now, is Gossilar? You know, that Joe Buck. Joe Buck. I always fuck it up. Joe Buck, he fucked it up. Well, he didn't fuck up, but he did say Gossilar. And this is when I was on Fox and he had to say my name during the Gossilar. Gossillar. And he got shit for saying that.

He gets shit for saying anything. Oh, he gets shit, yeah. So he says Gossilar. And then people start going, dude, you're such a douchebag. It's Gossler. And he's like, oh, my God, I fucked up Mark Paul's name. So he calls to apologize to me. What?

And yeah, yeah, yeah. He calls to apologize to me. And I play the game. I'm like, dude, what the fuck? How did you not know my name is Mark Paul? Gossler, not Gossel. Like, why would you do that? And he felt like he was mortified.

And then, you know, I kind of let him off the hook and told him I was a prank and whatever and became friends. But it, it, the, the correct pronunciation is probably Gossilar, because that's the closest to how we say it in Dutch, which is Hossolar. But, Ghoselar. Ghoselar. There you go. All right.

You might be, you might be Dutch. Right. But we just, I just say Mark Paul Gossel. G-O-S-S-L-E-R. It's the American version. I love that Joe Buck called you up to apologize from mispronouncing your name. That is a sweet fucking thing to do.

He's a sweet man. And I don't care what anybody says. I like the dude. And I think he does a really good job. Yeah, I do too. All right, this is called shit-talking with Mark Paul Gossler. These are my patrons. They give back to the podcast.

They care about it. They love it. They get to ask some questions. So this is, you know, you can answer them however you want. Some of them might be redundant because we might have talked about it. But here we go, Lisa H. Obviously, I grew up watching you as Zach Morris. But my question is about a more recent role.

I love the show mixedish. So disappointed when it was canceled. Do you feel there were more stories to be told and what episode was your favorite? I feel there were more stories to be told. I was always looking forward to the day. I think the show started in 88. That's when the era that we were in. And I was hoping that we'd get to the 90s because then they could watch Save by the Bell.

And I thought that was kind of, that would have been kind of fun. Actually, that show was 86. Yeah, fuck, I can't remember, man. See, this is my problem. This is what happens. It's what happens. But yeah, it was my favorite episode. Oh, man, I don't remember.

I mean, I can't remember what episode was fun. I had a lot of fun on that show with those actors. um good good group teka sumter great actress uh yeah i just the whole experience was good good fun dave p what convinced you to return to say by the bell uh what convinced me to return say it say it say money just be fucking money no money money was good i mean money money was good uh working with Tracy Wigfield, and I had a meeting with her before she started writing, and she pitched me the idea, and I thought it was brilliant. And then when I saw it on the page, I was like, holy shit, she did it. She cracked it. And then, yeah, money and the fact that I get to put my

name on as a producer, those are all good things. Leanne, why do you think Saved by the Bell still resonates with such a younger audience? It's interesting. I just had a friend. I just had a of me, send me a video of his daughters and I believe they're under 10. And I sent the video back because their favorite character is Zach Morris and they were watching. I have no

idea why the show still resonates. My kids are watching other things like the Thundermans or something like that on Nickelodeon. I don't know. Is that a thing? I remember the Thunder Cats. I remember the Thunder Cats. This is like a live action thing.

This is like a but it's it's like this TV show where the the family it's kind of like the Incredibles they all have superhero super abilities super powers oh wow and I don't know if it's on Nickelodeon or what my kids watch that and and so I'm always I'm always surprised because there's some really fun shows out there but people then find saved by the bell and it still feels current and relevant to them maybe it's the simplicity it's the time it's the just you care about these guys. I don't know, there's a lot to it.

I mean, you tell me, but I think, you know, it was just easy to watch. You just threw it on and you just had a laugh or you just, you know, oh, you like the girl or, oh, I want to be the cool guy or I want a guy, you know, I'm the geek. You know, it's sort of, I don't know, I don't know, because they're saved by the bell the new class. There's hanging, hang time. There's California dreams, all these shows. And for some reason, people take out saved by the bell.

Yeah. David H., you've been in some amazing shows, worked with some amazing people. Who do you think has been your biggest mentor and who have you remained friends with through the years? The biggest mentor was Dennis Franz and that whole crew, Stephen Blachgrove, Dennis Franz, Mark Tinker. Dennis Franz, actually, you became close with and you actually hung out with a lot.

Yeah, yeah. He retired from the business. Once NYPD Blue was over, that was it. He was done. He came to see me do a play, in 2010 or 2009 he came to see me do a play in New York

and I asked him at that point we went out for dinner afterwards and I said you don't miss it and he goes no not really because he was so fucking good he's just an amazing actor and he kind of just gave it up yeah and just walked away

I mean he said he made it I don't he made a shit ton of money and I guess this felt I don't know what he felt to be honest I mean, it gets, don't you think it gets old? Do you ever think about, God, I'd like to have enough money or I'd like to just walk away?

Or do you really just like it so much that you want to keep doing it to your old and gray? Or do you kind of feel like, God, I'd like to be done with this shit? There's part of me that would like to be done with the grind, right? I would love to have Dennis Franz money and basically live, you know, the life that I want to live. But there's part of me that there's the creative side of me, right? where I would still want to be a part of some creative process, whether that's working with directors or producers or what. I don't know if I'd necessarily need to be in front of the camera.

I don't, I get just as much joy being behind the camera that I do at the front. So, but I do like to create. I do like to, I like the process. I like, I like collaborating. Comaery. Yeah. Michelle Cage, you keep any cool shit from Saved by the Bell? I wish I did.

I talk about this on the podcast. I wasn't sentimental at all. You know, being a 16-year-old, I wasn't sentimental of anything. My health, you know, girlfriends, whatever. I didn't start becoming sentimental until NYPD Blue. And when that wrapped, I was close to 31. And when that wrapped, I took my fake gun. I took my badge.

I took my notepad. I took a lamp that was sitting on Sipowitz's desk. I took whatever the fuck wasn't. it down. But from Sarah by the Bell, I have nothing. And as I watched the shows, I go, fuck, I wish I would have taken that. Like, there was this episode where we had these screech masks. I was like, I wish I had that.

Oh, man. Yeah. I saved a lot of shit. I stole a lot of shit. Oh, yeah, I stole a lot of shit from the set. Jackets, Lex white president suits, jacket where I played Zod, this jacket they made for me. a mask that I wore where my character splits in half

which is up there. Onix scripts got shit signed. I just was like, I always felt like this is going to be my last show. Every show I ever did, I always thought they're going to figure me out. I think a lot of actors think that. But I thought, just, you know,

I'm going to get autographs. And if I go broke, I'll just sell this shit. Do you have a problem asking people for autographs? No. If you were here right now, if you came over, you'd see I have a room full of posters, autograph, horror movie. I got the whole cast signed aliens.

My thing by Kurt Russell signed the thing poster and escaped from New York. My Fright Night poster from the director, Tom Holland, Evil Dead Bruce Campbell, Kiefer Sutherland and Jason Patrick signed my Lost Boys poster. I just, I don't give a shit, man. I just, I love it. I was a collector. I went to cons conventions before I was an actor or made it or anything. And I just still feel like that kid.

So, yeah, I don't give a fuck. But I know most people do. Most people are like, I don't ask for autograph. that's weird dude yeah i don't know i i don't have i mean i'm trying to think if i have autographs i not that i i mean i think i have a few jerseys downstairs joe montana you have joe montana i have a football from him i did ask him for see this is a thing people will fuck it up for you right i i was at a um i think it was a madden event you know when when when they used to like ask celebrities to come out we were doing like

like a flag football game for mad yeah and it was down and and um i got uh i got montana's autograph and i asked for another guys um not going to name his name but he gave me the dirtiest fucking look when i got it and i was like man i didn't want to do this to begin with and now you're making me feel bad wow fuck i'm excited i mean i can't do it so i don't think i don't think i've done it since. Oh, man. I did that with Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson was on the show called Breaking

and he was just a guest star and I had some scenes with him and I go and I said fuck for the cast I bought a whole bunch of boxing gloves like six of them or seven of them and I go, I came in his trail I go hey would you sign you sign? I go beforehand I go would you mind signing a glove? No, absolutely man. Yeah, I'll sign you a glove.

I'll sign a boxing glove for you. And I went into his trailer and I had, he goes, what the what the fuck is this man? I go oh it's just for the cast he goes oh shit man i just thought i thought i thought i was signing for just you man i go oh oh you can my bad i just thought he goes no it's fine man it's fine but i could tell he was upset and i was like fuck dude and then i thought he gives a fuck i'll never see him again fuck it i just got six autograph no no no you know why you were you were taking advantage of iron

white just like everybody i wasn't i was just giving the cast i was trying to be nice but he's probably thinking back look dude i give you a fucking i give you a morsel and you ask for the whole thing. You're right. I asked for too much. That's his whole life. He's right. He's right. I was a dick. You're right. I just thought about it. I'm a dick. But I still, but you're welcome. Cast. I'm an appreciative fucks. He was, he was on Franklin and Bash as well. And, um, uh, Brecken had a funny little face to face with him. Uh, he was, it was right after he did this, um, you know, the whole thing with the Broadway thing

and it was like everybody was so impressed with how he did and so that's what he was supposed to play like this refined man who gave up violence and the line like long story short

Breckin's supposed to hit him and he's supposed to be like why would you do that? I'm just you know I'm a Broadway guy now kind of thing but he took it the other way No one gave him any direction. So when Brecken does his fake punched and, you know, hits him, he gets in Brecken's face as full Mike Tyson,

like the guy that you fear. He's like, why the fuck would you do that? Like all of us back the fuck up. And I was like, whoa, this guy is going to attack Brecken. And then after that take was over, the director was like, that was great, Mike. We're going to go in a different direction. We're going to, you know, it's actually the opposite of that.

You're just, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're the guy on Broadway, you know, that guy. That's the guy we want. He's like, oh, okay, okay, okay, yeah, I got that wrong. And he did it. It was great. Man, he's, he's, he's still so freaking intense. Oh, my God. Maya P, you've been working constantly for 40 years, nearly 40 years. What advice did you give someone on how to maintain longevity in the business? Uh, man, um, don't take it personally, I guess. That's the hardest thing you just said, but you're right. the chief

the chief says what's your fondest story or memory with screech Dustin Diamond You know we were close when we were doing the show And then all of us went our own way So there were many many years Where we weren't in each other's lives But I just remember

Laughing a lot with Dustin He was the goofiest motherfucker you ever Can get in the same room with He made these choices that were The choices that only he could make on screen. He was really good. He was a very talented actor at a very young

age. But we had a lot of good times and just remember a lot of laughter with him. And playing video games. I remember playing a lot of video games with the guy too. And his dad, we were just sitting in his room and he had like a Neo Geo back when that was like the premier

gaming platform. And he was the coolest kid today. My God. I mean, was it tough when you heard about it? The loss, did you feel like he was just kind of, it was just shocking to you? Were you shocked? Or did you know about it?

I was totally shocked because the year before I had seen him at a Comic-Con and we were next to each other and, you know, he never said a word about his health. And then to find out that he died so quickly without any of us really knowing what was going on, that was shocking and really sad that he didn't, he didn't, you know, connect with us a little bit more before his passing. I don't think it's his fault. I just think that maybe he thought things were going to be better.

Thought you get through it. Yeah, exactly. But it was shocking. It was very sad. And I mean, Jesus Christ, he was only 42 or so. Nuts. Unbelievable. Do you, last question, you know, we didn't really talk about it.

But with all the work and all the success you've had and all the shows you've done, did you ever have to deal? Did you ever deal? always ask the guest did you ever deal with any anxiety did you do you still deal with anxiety is it something that's been a party or something that you look you're looking at me like of course what the fuck are you talking about fuck dude i haven't i have anxiety like i had anxiety coming on your show i have anxiety like i do minutes before i come on i swear to you i have anxiety like i'm riddled with anxiety me too um it just it just i don't i don't do anything

other than punish myself with sport and working out. Thankfully, I don't abuse alcohol or drugs. I'm not reliant on any sort of substance to get me through my anxiety. I try to work on it by making myself a better human being and finding things that will make me better. I got into cold exposure last year, and that's helping with anxiety and you know there's certain things that I'm like natural supplements

that I take trying to try to understand myself I know I'm being very vague but no this this helps I think a lot of people especially that listen you know the hearing from like someone like yourself that you know you deal with anxiety they're like they're probably shocked you know and it just it helps normalize that and also you know you're saying exercise helps you obviously, right? You said cold therapy. What's cold therapy? Or cold, uh, what is that? Exposure. Exposure. I did a, I did a film with Ryan Quentin. And before that, I knew nothing about cold exposure. He basically goes into the ocean every morning and every night. And just like, the matter how cold it is. And I was so fascinated with that. There's a lot of meditating. I don't

have the capacity to meditate as much as I'd like to or at all. It's just like, if I have 10 minutes, I'd rather punish myself with jujitsu or, you know, hitting a bag. or weights or you know doing a crossfit routine um but i'm learning to really put a lot of effort into recovery and whether that's you know getting enough sleep and um eating better not that i ate like shit but eating more towards um eating enough for me uh in a way and that doesn't mean like consumption and and eating to my body. Yeah. Well said.

Well, this has been a real treat, man. I appreciate you coming on here and being so open and candid. You never know with guests. And you were really just forthcoming. You are. You're just like, you know, because I read somewhere you're, you know, you are, you're a shy guy. You're a private guy.

And when I've met you, you're always humble and sweet and you just never know. I'm like, well, this could be a really quick interview or, you know, and it was, it was a lot of fun for me. I think I think the reason why I'll tend to be shy is because I'm worried about what what can happen with my words. And I'm sure, you know, in this day and age now, you say one fucking thing. Yeah. And it just like, people take a snippet of it. And it, again, because I care so much, they take it and I go, fuck. That's not what I.

That just happened with a guest, you know, I had Jensen Ackles on. And, you know, he. Yeah, I heard that one. I heard what he said. He didn't. And if you listen. listen to it. It's like, I love her. She's like a sister, but she was horrible. And it was almost joking. But, you know, the way they put it out there is horrible to work with.

And it just exploded and went viral. Exploded. I texted it. And he was like, he's like, dude, you know, I don't give a fuck. What can you do? It's like, you know, it's like, you know, we need the Jensen Eccles diet. That's the diet we need. We need that diet. Yeah. Zero fucks. Yeah. It's like, you know, the zero sugar, monster energy drink and zero fucks. zero fucks that's that's my resolution zero fucks Ryan Ryan Ryan's my engineer over there yeah good luck good luck how long that you break that resolution uh you have a better chance of being dry for the entire 2020 well dude let's get together sometime I'd love to see when all

this shit's done and we could just get together for a soda or some shit soda a beer whatever we'll get together for whatever I don't know do they even make soda I don't know, do they? I don't even one of my New Year's resolutions was to get done with soda, no more sodas. So we'll do something else. Do you, are you a drinker? Do you drink?

Yeah, well, I'd like to have a dram every night of scotch. My wife is Scottish. Even before we were together, I was always into having scotch. I love scotch. Try not to do that every night, but it's pretty hard not to.

but do you do any sport besides i mean i knew you were doing softball and stuff like that uh you know i do the the softball with friends and stuff i'm you know i play a little tennis here and there a little golf um and i'm going to start playing hockey again i think you know recreationally oh yeah you know i just got to be careful but yeah i just i miss it so much that i got to get back on the ice are you are you with the bruckheimer guys yeah i still play down there at the sports center the toyota sports center now wait is that still el sagundo yeah so I haven't played like seven months but yeah I'm gonna do it why don't you try it's been a while well when was the last time you played eight months ago oh well fuck yeah I played last time I play

was 2016 big deal you go out one you look like shit the next time you come out you look like less shit and you just keep getting better all right you give me the invite for those guys and I'll see if I can make it work I will I really will car pull together all right cool that's a long ass drive too that's a good 45 minute drive but when you got some haul and oats in the car you're good to go good to see you dude i love this man i appreciate it and i'll send i'll let you know when it's coming out sounds good buddy i appreciate it thanks for having me on i i was uh you know i was tad nervous he's a big get well i thought you know he was a great guest but i was worried that you know i was he don't want to talk about maybe he doesn't even want to talk about saved by

the bell maybe he doesn't want to talk about he talked about everything when i brought up Did you date when you dated these guys? Who is your fan? He opened up. I like that, man. So I think you get appreciate that. I hope you enjoy the podcast. I know I did.

Reminding you to join Patreon if you want to give back to the podcast and keep it going. Go to patreon.com slash inside of you. Support us. Also inside of you online store to get cool merch like scripts, model scripts and tumblers from inside of you. I think I have, there's so much great stuff. inside of you online store and also my band sunspin we're recording a new album go to sunspin.com and you could book the band for a zoom I'm also on the cameo you know who got me in the

cameo who Sean Ashton. Really? Yeah. Sean Ashton got me in the cameo and people really like the cameo. They like getting birthday messages and things and I have a lot of fun with it. I really have a lot of fun with it. I'll sing to people. I'll joke with people.

I'll do whatever. I'm a monkey. Dance. Dance, monkey, dance. But look, I appreciate you guys choosing this podcast every week or at least maybe just this week if you're here. But if you enjoyed it, maybe you'll stick around and listen to other guests. We get deep. And it's unlike a lot of other podcasts where they just talk about fluff and actory stuff.

I try to get a little deep and we find out things that you know, you as a listener, relate to and you know whether it's anxiety or mental health issues or just facing adversity it's it's something that uh i like to dive into when the guests are open and willing to do so uh it's this time um to list off all the wonderful patrons that have made this show possible thank you couldn't do it without you i've said it before join patreon go to patreon dot com slash anxiety but these are the top tier. Nancy. D.

Leah. What? Yeah. Yes, correct. Sarah. The little. Lisa. You.

Keiko. Jill. E. Brian. H. Nico. P. Robert.

C. B. Yes. Jason. W. Kristen. K. Allison.

L. Raj. C. Joshua. D. C.J. P. Jennifer.

N. St. L. J. J. Jamal. F. J.

B. Kimberly. Kimberly. E. Mike. D. E. Correct. Eldon.

Supremo. 99. More. San Diego M. Correct. Chad. D. No.

You. No. Close to you. Chad D. W. Is that what you said? I said D. B'LU.

I'm going to give you that. Leanne. Uh, P. Janine. R. Maya. P. Madie.

B. Belinda. N. Chris. H. Dave. H. Spider-Man.

Chase. Sheila. G. Brad. D. Ray. Tabitha. T.

Tom. N. Lilliana. A. Talia. C. No. T. N.

Close. M. Correct. I'm going to give you that. Betsy. R. No. Oh, no.

Can miss Betsy. Betsy D. That's correct. Betsy D. Chad. Is this not Chad D? This is going to rhyme. Chad.

L Andra L Rochelle Rischel Rishel Marion Meg K

Trav L Dan N Big Stevie W God you know Ryan just nailed a ton

a shit ton in order that is surprisingly amazing Big Stevie W Angel M Riann

C Corey K Super Sam Dev next and Michelle A Jeremy C Andy T Cody R

Gavinator David C John B Brandy D Yvour Camille S the C Joey M

Willie F, David H, Adelaide, N, Omar, I, Lena, N, design, OTG, Eugene and Leah, hello, Chris P, Nikki G, Corey, Patricia, Heather, Jake, B, James B, Bobbett, Abel F, Joshua B, Abel, I just sent you stuff, I just sent you from Patreon, you know, you're in the top tier, so you get merch, I just remember sending you a box of merch, I'll just say that. I remember saying Abel. Joshua B Tony G Sean R Megan T Mel S Orlando C John B Caroline R Darren B Robbie E Robbie Paul C

Christine S Sarah S Sarah S Eric H Spring and Jennifer R Couldn't do the podcast Without you guys I thank you From the bottom of my heart Another week we just keep going

We just keep going with podcasts It's you know It's nice because now we're going to get like The rest of this week off after we do our ads stay so Ryan and I will have this week and next week off but you won't because we'll have podcast edited and ready for you so don't worry the podcast must go on but I know that I'm getting a little bit of a break and so are you good and that will be nice won't it yeah that's nice to get a little two week break yeah yeah and then we'll come back

and we're fire away don't you think well I can't say it but you know there is a big surprise coming and I can't wait to share it with you once we can share it you'll be the first ones on this podcast to when I announce it to hear it. Something good is coming. Sweet. From myself here in the Hollywood Hills of California, I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Tears. Ryan Teas, a little wave

to the camera. We love you. And most importantly, Ryan, what? Be good to each other. And be good. Humans. And be good to yourself.

Yes. I think that's the most important thing. I mean, obviously, be good to others is important you're pointing at you is like be good to you but good to michael but be good to yourselves enjoy your week enjoy your life you only get one as far as we know so just make the most of it have fun live a little all right we'll see you next week Football season is here. Oh, man. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience. From the pros.

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