Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Sean Astin

Episode Date: August 6, 2019

Sean Astin (Stranger Things, Goonies, Lord of the Rings) talks both about growing up “normal” in a household of Hollywood Royalty with parents John Astin and Patty Duke and also the abusive effect his mother’s personality disorder had on his development as a child. Sean also discusses his split decision on taking the role in the Goonies during the 80’s, his awkward auditions as a teenager, and exactly what working with the “quiet giant” Steven Spielberg was like. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. One of my favorites is on the show today. I mean, Lord of the Rings, Goonies, Rudy. Stranger Things 2. I didn't see that one. He's been in everything. And I've got to tell you, this guy's a mensch. He is just a sweetheart.

His father, his father was Gomez Adams. Is it John Austin, I believe? John Austin. John Austin. Guess who his mother was? Patty Duke. I mean, he grew up with kind of like royalty, Hollywood royalty. And he tells great stories.

I didn't care if he repeated a story. I wanted to hear these stories. I wanted to hear when he auditioned for Goonies. I wanted to hear when he got these amazing roles. And the stories, the pictures that he paints are just, I could listen to him forever. I don't know if there's more to say to this than that. By the way, Tom Wellie and I will be in Boston and Toronto in August. With Kristen.

Chris and Crook. and Tom and I will be in Toronto in August. And Left and Laurel, our album's coming out very soon. So be on the lookout for that. I hope you guys enjoy it. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money. Period.

It's Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. This is just a wonderful app. There's a lot of apps out there that really, you know, you have to do this and pay for and that. But with Rocket Money, it's, they're saving you money. You're getting this app to save money. I don't know how many times that I've had these unwanted subscriptions that I thought I canceled or I forgot to, you know, the free trial ran out, Ryan.

I know you did it. That's why you got Rocket Money. I did, yeah. And I also talked to a financial advisor recently and I said, I had Rocket Money. And they said, that's good. This will help you keep track. of your budget. See?

See? It's only, we're only here to help folks. We're only trying to give you, you know, things that will help you. So Rocket Money really does that. Rocket Money shows you all your expenses in one place, including subscriptions you forgot about. If you see a subscription you no longer want, Rocket Money will help cancel it. Rocket Money will even try to negotiate lower bills for you.

The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. They'll even talk to the customer service. so you don't have to. Yeah, because I don't want to. Press 1 now if you want, get alerts if your bills increase in price, if there's unusual activity in your accounts,

if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions. With members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features, cancel your unwanted subscriptions

and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them

you heard about them from my show inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Rocket Money. Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater. I wear it religiously.

You can get all sorts of amazing, amazing clothing for such reasonable prices. Look, cooler temps are rolling in. And as always, Quince is where I'm turning for fall staples that actually last. From cashmere to denim to boots, the quality holds up and the price still blows me away. Quince has the kind of fall staples you'll wear nonstop, like Super Soft, 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at just 60 bucks. Yeah, I'm going to get you one of those, I think. Nice. I like to see you in a cashmere.

Maybe a different color so we don't look like twins. Their denim is durable and it fits right and their real leather jackets bring that clean, classic edge without the elevated price tag. And what makes Quince different, they partner directly with ethical factories and skip the middlemen so you get top tier fabrics and craftsmanship at half the price of similar brands. These guys are for real. They have so much great stuff there that you just have to go to Quince, Q-U-I-N-C-C-E. I'm telling you, you're going to love this place.

Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. That's Q-U-I-N-C-E.com slash inside of you. Free shipping and 365-day returns. Quince.com slash inside of you. Let's get inside of you. It's my point of you, you're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

Why does she stay with you? Why does she stay with me? You're talking about my assistant, Jess? Is that your assistant? Yeah. Oh, okay. Well, she stays at me because without her, I think I'd probably completely fall apart. Oh, not probably.

Because we were thinking to start a podcast at my house and I bet she'd come work for us. I'm just saying, Are you another actor who wants to start a fucking podcast? Everybody wants to start a podcast. No, no, I did a podcast before you did a podcast.

It wasn't a podcast. I called it a radio show. Notice the Yark quote. Really? Yeah. I think you'd be, you know, incredibly successful. I think people would really listen to your podcast.

No, I did a show called Vox Populi Radio, voice of the occasionally interested people. Vox popular means voice of people. And it was, and it was, and it was, the idea was, civil discourse. So I did one season out of Toad Hop. You remember what Toad Hop was? No. That name doesn't sound ring about? Okay. I know Rob doesn't. He was born in 2008. No, you were born in two? No, he was 29. He's got two kids. 30. I know. You tell your face.

Your face doesn't know yet. But no, the John Lovitz Theater. Oh, yeah. I know. Universal. And on the third floor, they kind of retrofitted two little rooms to be like a little radio studio. And it was Frank and Heidi, who are K-L-O-S now. Oh, yeah. Frank and Heidi were big personalities, and they either got fired or their station got folded in or whatever. So they were kind of like,

and this is two, so this is like 15 years ago. So maybe not that long, but it was a long time ago. And so I went there and said, listen, I want to do this political radio show, and they kind of looked me up and down, and they were like, okay, fine,

your congratulations should do you do this? I can't remember. I want to say it was, like 2010-11-12 and did you get paid for this radio show no no and if i would have if i would have had you know some help you see what i'm saying then maybe first of all if you're looking at like you pointed to my producer rob here's what happened every time yeah so so here's i'm starting to have this feeling maybe it's because look i'm going to therapy and i'm starting but i i feel like i can totally help you i feel like you know rob got me to do a podcast he said you know

you know where this is going two years ago yeah we started this right right right Well, really, for the last year, we've been going strong. And everybody that would come to the house would be like, oh, this is cool. And you got this setup. And so Nick Swartz and was like, hey, can you help me, Rob? And then all of a sudden, somebody else has come up. Oh, yeah, Rob, you're really good. And then my friend Dax comes for an interview and goes, man, I really like this.

It gave me the idea to have a podcast. So Dax goes, hey, can I use your buddy, Rob's or Rob goes with Dax? And all of a sudden, no, this is great. But what I'm saying is everybody, once they see it, has now wanted. Yeah. Can I help you? Can I give you my card and we can talk after the show? This is what you need.

And every podcast he's help out is do better than mine. This is what you need to do. That's the fucking reality. Why? No, you've done something here and you're not even acknowledging what you've created. What? You're a radio station. All these friends, you can help with the administrative piece of this little venture.

And then they don't have to even think about it. So instead of thinking as like farming here, him out to a bunch of different people it's they are all coming to take a piece of his time as you mount a station jesus by the way you talked about politics a minute ago i don't talk about politics on the show because i think it's a relief not too okay he loves trump he doesn't are you trump he's a big trump do you know what he is right now oh this is when is this going to air no no no no no no rob i think he'll be president one of those i'm i'm i'm extremely liberal no that's not true either i'm not that liberal i am i go with the best person

for the job. Okay? He's got a Bernie Sanders tattoo on his chest. I'm not saying anybody I like to, I don't talk politics. I don't want to go in there and it's like oversaturated with like all these actors. You know, nobody wants to hear fucking actors talk about politics. Now I understand it's important for a person. Just because you're an actor doesn't mean you shouldn't have a voice, right? Because that's what us actors will say.

It's like, what now that I'm an actor, I don't get to speak up about politics. Well, I think the problem that people have is listening to actors talk about politics stupidly. yes things that they don't know enough about politics and what's going on i mean i sort of do to pontificate but you are you're a graduate of a highly uh successful university what is it UCLA right down the street here yes and you also didn't you do like study literature and yeah literature and history or american literature and cultures and you you're like i've got a vocabulary bro if we wanted to throw it out right now i can you like pull out some i can do it i'm an idiot you're not in. Listen, I'm incredibly

creative and witty and self-deprecating. Talented? I would say that I'm talented, but I would say that I don't have I'm not book smart. I don't have a ton of common sense. I think Well, that comes the whole gamut. You just do the whole, it's usually you think

a guy's book smart or he has street sense. You've got neither? No, I think I'm just really witty and funny and creative and charming. I think that's street sense. I think that I think you have to go back on I think you have street sense. Yeah, okay, street sense. But, you know you're a smart guy. I think people really...

Here's the thing, there's very few people I'll say this about. None of the guests I've had really have what you have, except for Henry Winkler. No. Henry Winkler... How old are you?

48? Yeah, 48. I'll be 47. You know, you can have a gut if you want. You could have a gut. You have three kids. I don't want it. It's really annoying.

It's so annoying. But I've seen you in the... Here's the thing. You're like the Tom Hanks. You're like the... You're like the... What's an actor that gets heavier? and then skinnier and then medium-sized.

De Niro. You are a De Niro. That's when you think of Goonies, you think that guy is De Niro. I think that you, you know, I've seen you in amazing shape. We talked about the marathon you ran. Yeah, the triathlon. The triathlon, which was like the craziest story I've ever heard, which we can get into that. But before I get into that, oh, my God, it's one of the most amazing achievements I think anybody can ever do.

And I really couldn't do it. I think what you're saying is true for most of my life in my professional. Oh, by the way, sorry. I want to cut you off because what I was saying about Henry Winkler is you're one of the nicest guys around. That's what I wanted to say. So go ahead. Henry Winkler's an asshole. No, he's not.

I've met him and he's a hero of mine. And he, I mean, his children's books and he's just like, I've seen him interact with lots of fans and lots of different settings. And he's just always. So yes, Henry Winkler is, I will defer to Henry as one of the, as the nicest person in show business. Is it just innate? Is it something that, is it, do you, this is an important question for me because I'm always asking questions that reflect maybe my life or why I am not. That's good. Do you think that your childhood was the main component to who you are now?

Do you think it was like you had, was your childhood great, was your family kind, were they loving, supportive? Do you know anything about my particular, I mean, you're asking a general question or a specific question? Because these hills, this Wonderland Avenue right around the corner from here, here. And these hills are kind of like, I was reared in these hills. Well, not exactly, but close. Actually, I was driving up there because I was a little early and I looked down and I could see Sierra Towers. Do you know what Sierra Towers? No. It's a really tall building right at Sunset Doheny, the super tall one, the one on the south side of the street. Yes, yes, yes. The white one with those weird kind of, yeah, that was, so I was

conceived in that building. Really? Yeah. In an apartment building. Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, I don't know if that's exactly where I was conceived, but my mom was living there. Patty Duke Paddy Duke Not just your mom Yeah Patty Duke Yeah

One of the funny story was She came down First of all she was short Like really like five Like like four eleven Four ten And what are you five nine? I'm five seven

Whatever That hasn't hindered You haven't mature yet No no no no Actually it's been Helpful Yeah it's been very helpful I mean Lord of the Rings

I don't think if you were Six foot four No No No I played a hobbit And Rudy was too small To get on the football team And

I did Memphis Bell which is I played the character who went in the ball turret on the B-17 bomber, which is you have to be really short to get in there. So being short, been very good to me. But I was going to just tell you this little story. It pops into my head. My mom goes down and there's like a doorman, you know, the car, 1970. And she jumps in a car and takes off. And she finally is into Beverly Hills and she pulls over and she doesn't know what the heck's going on.

And she realizes there are these blocks strapped to the pedals. she had jumped in Willie Shoemaker's car, the jockey, the famous, because they're both short, and I guess they had a similar car. So, you know, it was like, she didn't get, it wasn't Grand Theft Auto, because in those days, you were just like, oh, hey, here's a bottle of wine, and it's fine, but. Sorry. Yeah, but no, I mean, I think in terms of the thing you're talking about, I mean, my mom was a very famous bipolar sufferer.

She wrote books and gave speeches, and Larry King would always have when some awful incident would happen, and it was mental health related. my mom and Muriel Hemingway and I can't remember who the other one was but they were the kind of go-to national figures for talking about depression and bipolar disorder and it probably wasn't as

as big as it is now where people are really starting to open up a little more about she's credited with being the first the pioneer in in terms of bipolar disorder there's others before her who really opened about their depression and that kind of thing but but in this kind of new

the new market era of talking about the you know, the psychiatric, the kind of index of things, anxiety and all these things. Bipolar was one of the ones that was really taboo. Could you define bipolar in like a sentence or two for people who don't know exactly the bipolar is? Well, my mom would always just kind of distill it into the idea that there was a chemical imbalance in her brain and the medicine that she took, the lithium or the lymictal that she took helped, you know, lithium is an element.

It's one of the, it's a metal, right? So apparently there's something in the, And this is, in my own investigation of this with psychiatrists and stuff, I have been really shocked to see the lack of a vocabulary for average people, like for lay people. It's very hard to put into it. But basically, it's, they'll give you a list. If you look at that big, there's a gray book, the psychiatric, oh, whatever it's called. It's the most known psychiatric book. It's the book.

It's this big, huge telephone-looking book of psychiatric disorders. And if you go to bipolar and you open it up and there's like a list of 12 behaviors that are indicated with it, you know, depression is one, euphoria, sexual promiscuity, erratic spending, delusions of grandeur. There's a whole series of things. And my mom satisfied every one of them. My mom went on the Dick Cavett show. You remember who Dick Cavett is? Yeah, of course. Yeah, so she wanted the Dick Cavett joke.

I guess to get Dick. Yeah, she said she was building... Rob, you love Dick, don't you know? Not as much as you. What are you talking about? It's because you don't, you haven't watched it enough. So immature. He was one of those, oh, Dick Cavett.

That was a Richard joke. I get it now. Yeah. But no, Richard Cavett. Oh, you mean Richard Gallup? Of all the Cavits, Dick was the best one. But he wasn't Jay Leno. He wasn't Johnny Carson.

Johnny Carson was charing was charisma and was, you know, Karnack and all those kind of variety He was kind of chill. He was chill, and you would sit down and you'd get, like, this serious interview with Dick Cabot, like, John Lennon sitting down with Dick Cabot, you know, like those kind of interviews. He didn't upstage you. He didn't do anything. He was just kind of there and nice and kind of. He was smart. He was a little, he was tough.

He was kind of like a tough guy. Really, little Dick Cavett? I always got this sense that he had an edge to him. So you've hung out with him. No, no, no. I'm just me watching the show. I can't actually watch my mother's this particular. episode it's available on YouTube

why yeah why it's just too painful she's too she's too mentally unstable and like she says you have seen or you've heard about I've seen a little bit of it and I couldn't watch it I was like I she tells him she's gonna build an arc in the desert but is she sort of like she was Moses like she was mom when she's saying this or she just like no she was a place well

the thing about my mom was she was really intense when she would look at you she would lock on your eyes and that was it you were in her tractor beam and her eyes would like go back and forth between your eyes when she was talking and if there was any of these kinds of stakes or issues being talked about you know like life thing which when she was saying she was a Messiah basically on the show but she would just her eyes would go back and forth really beating fast eyes looking at you and you were like you didn't know if you should look at both

of the eyes like trying to keep up with her or just look at one and the effect that my mother had on people is profound unbelievable all over the world I go and people come up to me sobbing your mother saved my life and but she was clearly just back to shit crazy, like in that one. And she, there were other things. Like, she won, I think she won three or four Emmys and an Oscar. For the Patty Duke show? I don't think she went for the Patty Duke show. She was nominated for 10, I think. I found out after she died, I like didn't know certain things. But there was one that she won where she was, with Desirenes Jr. They were like, Benefer. Yes, which people thought that was your father. Right, right, right.

Yeah. So that was, you know, she still almost to the end of her life kind of maintained that, even though it clearly wasn't true, but... Because you had a test, your blood tested. Your blood and DNA and all that, and there's just not a me. Were you hoping? Yeah, I definitely was hoping. You're definitely hoping. You're definitely hoping.

Yeah, junior, yeah. And they were really in love. I mean, whenever they would talk, my mom was married a couple times after him, and he was married to a woman he loved who passed away, Amy, and we're friends now. We're like, he's like my godfather, basically. We sort of settled on that as an idea. They would tell these stories. You could tell that they had this profound connection with.

each other, but they were dating in one of these kind of tiffs that you'd see on TMZ now or something like that. And she wins the award and she goes up and she takes the trophy. And I think it was like the shortest speech ever. Like, yeah, like the shortest speech everywhere. She looks, I can't remember exactly how she says it, but it is horrifying. It's so embarrassing. She looks livid like she could just throw the emmy and somebody they were having some fight they were having some fight and she took it on stage with her absolutely she was fucking you got to know how to turn it off it's hard to turn it off well but people it was interesting it was it was explosive you know she was she was fascinating person to be around i don't know if any if there's a good reason for people to you know kind

of lose control of themselves but she generally that her sense of injustice was very strong and I would take her side in an argument most of the time until she got sort of like really Right. So she got off the radar. Well, you said something about promiscuity. Was she promiscuous? Oh, yeah. That's a thing.

She was also a prude, too, if you can be both. How could you be both? She was. Maybe Rob here is a pert. Well, you don't know. Just go rooting through his closets and see what kind of boas he has. I go pruding through his closet. No, she was just, um, what?

used to be called the manic side, the mania associated with bipolar, is just about emotional extremes. And people talk about how she would talk about and others talk about having this incredibly heightened sense of awareness about everything around them, their ability to connect with people, the way they experience the natural, you know, just a sunset or something like that. It's just, it's too much. It's like what you hear about with drugs and stuff. Like you, but without drugs and people get It gets bad But your original question had to do with like

Why am I like basically a nice guy That's what I was gonna get to Like how did you Because you're also You're not talking to just Patty Duke But your father who your mother remarried Who adopted you Yeah John Aston yeah

Was John Aston who by the way Gomez I had no idea It was Gomez from the original Adams family Which is he was unbelievably He's such an unbelievable talent And he's still around He's in 90 And he's teaching

Teaching at Johns Hopkins He runs the drama department there. He's been... It's just incredible. You sent me a picture like a couple weeks ago, and I was like, oh, my God. Yeah, yeah. He's, you know, he moves slow and he talks slow, but he is, he's just sharp as attack. And the students love him.

He now has 20 years worth of students who've graduated who come back to the university, who are starting to have successful careers. And you see them interviewed on shows and they talk about their influences and their training and they talk about my dad. And yeah. I want to hear how you grew up, how this was, how did you have any normalcy? Well, in a weird way, by the time I came along, they had already done the fame thing at the highest level.

So they were a little over like the coolness of it or being, you know, my dad was married. He had three sons from my three older brothers were his first sons from his first marriage. And, you know, when Adam's family blew up, I mean, he was, he was like Jack Nicholson. You know, which from that? No. I mean, not as much as he should have. Neither of them had the kind of money they should have had based on the success they had. With my mom's case, it's because she spent more than she earned. So, you know, you can earn a million dollars, but if you spend a million two, you're $200,000 in debt, you know. But he, but at one point my dad started a video editing business. And I don't know how much he put into it, maybe like half a million, three quarters a million, a million, something like that. I don't know. And it was at the time where he was ahead of the curve. And he realized that the studios, didn't have the facilities to do all their, you know, like chips and what other ones were out there that they, that I think he might have a murder she rode. And some of those like, remember chips? Yeah, yeah. So they could subform out to him in his shop to edit some of the

stuff or do the title sequences or whatever. But he was too, he was just too ahead of his time. If it took, you know, it took him a million dollars to get equipment installed, you know, video equipment that now is on your telephone it would take a huge room to fill it up and by the time they'd get it in it was obsolete so he couldn't keep up with the turnover anyway so that was that really hurt his his kind of wealth i would say early but growing up how did like how did he deal with your mom how did your mom deal with you guys how are you affected because as a child you don't understand you can't say um you know when your mother has a personality disorder you don't understand that as a child do you they didn't understand it they didn't understand it they didn't

She didn't understand it. My dad didn't, but he, my dad believed in psychotherapy. He had done a five-year psychoanalysis. I'm going to try that. And he, well, he, he tells amazing stories about what he experienced. It's a long, it's a long process. But, but, and my mom was too impatient to do that kind of thing. But, but in a way, what I was trying to say about them, like, having already been famous, was like, we lived in a house that from the curb look like a mansion.

It looked like it was up the stairs. It was a big staircase and you were like, oh, man, that's a mansion. But then you go in, it had a living room and a dining room and a kitchen and then some bedroom. It wasn't, it didn't feel like a mansion. You know, we didn't feel like... It was just that when you were looking up, it looked big. It looked big from when you're in there. You're in there.

It's not that big a deal. The coolest feature was... You mean like my house, right, Rob? I knew you're going to say that. He thinks my house is huge. It's not. I tell people it's huge. He does.

He doesn't make me feel like, oh, I'm so rich. I'm so... When you have big ceilings, it feels rich. Yeah, but it's not that big. Over there you, in your room, you have big ceilings. Yeah. It looks. It looks in a giant guest house in the backyard.

There's no guest house. What he does? There's dog shit up there. We had a room, a separate room, kind of like an apartment, but it was one bedroom with a little bathroom and a little closet above the den, what we called the den. And so each of my three older brothers would spend kind of their last years before they moved out up there. And it was, that was the only thing that kind of felt like, oh, you've got a separate entrance with a thing. but my point is just that I never really felt like we were well healed like their fame.

We were aware of it, but it was never, it just, I just never felt like that. If you were in the middle of it, it might have been different, but the fact that you weren't and the fact that they were end of it, they were over it in a way. And their values, like they were hippie type people. My dad was kind of a hippie, not really, sort of a conservative hippie if you can have that. But like we went to a public school up in Belagia Road School was the elementary school. my older brothers went to, I think, Warner or something like that. Like, we were, it was public school, so we were right in with everybody else.

And, you know, it just didn't, we played Little League, Little League felt normal. They, they had an approach to life that was whatever their celebrity was, they could enjoy it internally and, like, where it counted, but they didn't need to demonstrate it. There was no evidence. My mom's Oscar, I think, was like, you know, in the bathroom or something, like, you know, like a doorstop or something. You know, it was the coolest things were like my dad would get the 16 millimeter projector out and he'd set up a projector and we would watch episodes of Adam's family. That's dope. That's like, but then you put it away. You know what I mean?

Like if your friends came over, people weren't friends with us because our parents were famous. They couldn't give a shit if our parents were famous. So that's like one important reality to think about if you want to understand my little situation. But the other thing was my dad was an intellectual. he was an intellectual he had gone to grad school you know he he he had gotten um he his dad was a very very famous not famous but a very influential man he was head of what they call the bureau of standards which now is the national institute of science and technology it's basically the the regulators of science so my adopted dad i'm sadly i don't get any of this uh genetic

inheritance but um but he you know so he was an intellectual and his he would even though my it would drive my mother up the wall to hear people talk about about it because she knew the like blood and guts guy that you would interact with. But his lessons to us, his teaching. How did he teach you? Because I have the, whatever you're going to say, I could say the opposite. So, well, for example, if my father, for instance, was trying to teach me algebra. Yeah. My father would say, how do you not know that? No, I'm not even joking. He'd say, I could do this backwards in my head. Why don't you know this? Ouch. If X is four, then what?

Are you an idiot? And then my mom drugged out in the other room doing like, uh, uh, carwheels. No, like imaginary, uh, what are those snow angels in the carpet? She would be like, Mark, leave him alone. But that's, I remember that. I think we're getting to the bottom of why you didn't sort of set the goal to be book smart. Yes, but your parents were the opposite probably. Well, my, my father.

My mother was bipolar. You better. So did she like hit you? Yeah. There was a physical abuse. Really? Yeah. usually there's always a reason but there was you know was yeah but my dad was uh he would go

calm and it pissed her off because the more she would freak out the more he would just get mellower and mellower but when he would when he would raise us with stuff he'd say things like hey put yourself in the other guy's shoes and you know two wrongs don't make a right and he would say it at critical moments when you just gotten beat up in school or something like that and you you'd you'd uh or you know you were opinionated about stuff um so there was a value system there. But let me go back because you said something that you kind of passed over that I think a lot of people would pass.

It seems to me like, you know, a lot of people, you know, had a little bit of abuse or a little verbal abuse or a little, you know, they were spanked or whatever. You know, my dad, did he beat me up? No, did he spank me? Yeah. Did he hit me every once in a while? Yeah. He was very young when he had me.

He went, he was going through a lot, you know, and I love him. And he's definitely turned a new leaf in my life and, you know, working, hard to you know just he was always a workaholic but like you know when your mom has a mental illness is that almost like you've forgiven her because you're like my mother wasn't like every other person with a normal brain so if she ever got abusive you know it was it wasn't her that was did you go to therapy uh later in life but not for that you know my wife and i at one point sat down and and like had a like a year of meetings with a therapist and talked about it.

It was, oh my God, the biggest thing that I learned is that I talk too much, you know, at a certain point, it was like, you have to shut the fuck up once in a while. And I do. And that's kind of what we are, but you know what? It's, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, uh, and the, the guy who married my wife and me when he was doing the, the little pre interviews of like, you know, before they marry you, then want to see if you're, if they

think that you're, this is a good idea for you or whatever. And, uh, and after we had talked to us. What are those people called priests? Well, no, this was a Lutheran minister who had retired from that, so I don't know whether he, what had happened with him. Actually, I probably don't want to know what I'm happening, but, but Pastor Newcomb, Bob Newcomb was his name, like Duke Newcomb. Duke, Newcomb, High. Newcomb, was this guy. And he, at the, when he talked to us, he said, he said, well, he says, I think you guys, he said, I'm happy to marry you. I think you guys are going to be great together. He said, but. Sean, you need to listen more

because apparently he would ask a question of Christine and I would not like the direction the answer was going and I would kind of railroad it. So, yeah. Yeah, so that wasn't good. Do you think that's a defense mechanism? Do you think you kind of like... It's just impaneity.

It's just, to me, it's just immaturity, just like, you know. Like you, you, or is it maybe controlling a little bit in an inadvertent way, sort of like a subtle way. Like I don't want the, the conversation to go down that path. So let's change it. I think I've done that probably with my mom, before because I'm embarrassed. I don't want her to say what I think she's going to say. Right.

So I'm like, yeah, well, she doesn't. Yeah, that's enough. Inside of you is brought to you by Rocket Money. If you want to save money, then listen to me because I use this. Ryan uses this. So many people use Rocket Money. It's a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions. Crazy, right? How cool is that? Monitorers your spending and helps lower your bills so you can grow your savings. And you know what's great? It works. It really works, Ryan.

Rocket money will even try to negotiate lowering your bills for you. The app automatically scans your bills to find opportunities to save and then goes to work to get you better deals. They'll even talk to customer service. Thank God. So you don't have to. I don't know how many times we talk about this, but like, you know, you got it and they helped you in so many ways. And with these subscriptions that you think are like, oh, it's a one month. subscription for free and then you pay,

well, we forget. We want to watch a show on some streamer and then we forget and now we owe $200 by the end of the year. They're there to make sure those things don't happen and they will save you money. You know, Rocket Money's 5 million members have saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions with members saving up to $740 a year when they use all of the app's premium features. Get alerts if your bills increase in price.

if there's unusual activity in your accounts, if you're close to going over budget, and even when you're doing a good job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket Money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Download the Rocket Money app

and enter my show name inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum in the survey so they know that I sent you. Don't wait. Download the Rocket Money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show. Ever wonder how dark the world world can really get? Well, we dive into the twisted, the terrifying, and the true stories behind

some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together, we host Wicked and Grimm, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time. With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Wicked. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. we had similar experience with lots of siblings from lots of different parents and remarriages kind of thing like I didn't explain it fully with my with my dad and his three sons and then me and then they had they had my little brother McKenzie and then they divorced and my mom got remarried and she had and two daughters two stepdaughters came with that and then they

adopted my so like their and they met Christine's life was kind of like that too but but to go back to the the the abuse thing yeah we are we felt sorry for her you know what i mean it was like watching a little kid act out so even though we were little kids and and a lot of times i would kind of adopt the paternal vibe you know that that was an interesting role to assume sometimes when she'd be freaking out about my dad and in some way she's looking to the kids for no to like to adjudicate the fight you know your father did this and your father did that and he did this and then she looks at you and you're now in the position of having to say like you're right mom you know what he shouldn't have done that or be like well you know but you did

kind of flip out before you had it you know we're you're like this weird juror so so what ends up happening is you develop this ability to kind of you know run between the raindrops where you're on yeah where you don't but you all but a tone is what she really wants she wants a nurturing supportive understanding tone you know and it's impossible with relationship to kind of like break it all down and into its component parts. But this is the quality that people are interested in hearing because it's what's different from or it's what they've experienced that people don't like to talk about. So when my mom was physically abusive, I always sensed that she knew what my limits were

and she didn't push past them. So where there was abuse, you were kind of like, it was almost perform. art and you kind of like, well, maybe this doesn't hurt as much as it could. There was one or two times where she lost it, where she wasn't. I can see your eyes to you remember exactly the moment. Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely. 100%. The one thing is we were always loved. It was very clear. There was never any lack of love. They were both very smart people. My dad and his kind of trained what Shakespearean, you know, intellectual way. And my mom in her very street smart. My mom was incredible you know she became president of the screen actors guild and she wrote a couple of books and

she's she's a very very powerful woman and in an accomplice who after she died my stepdad um drove down from idaho with a bunch of her stuff and kind of was like this and this is stuff you might want to have and we were going through these boxes of her awards and accolades and stuff you never knew about her never even thought of it uh three years ago uh three years ago was she uh 69 it's her 69th year pretty young yeah she smoked like three packs a day she lived hard not just you know not cigarettes were really bad but you know she was always just like there's so much anxiety and stress and tension and that can't you know that's what kills you did you notice any physiological things caused by the emotional things that

she was going through like that became physical like ticks or things that you notice that from the stress and the anxiety and the well she was sort of tough the way she smoked she'd like hold a cigarette between her teeth like a longshoreman you know what i mean and you just got this sense like she would terrify grown men she when she was president of the screen actress guild you know the teamsters were behind her she helped them broke her away uh uh what was going to be a job a strike and she got there and stood up for the teamsters wow and they they loved her she could literally snap her fingers and there could be a thousand teamsters behind her you know supporting her whatever she wanted to do for the rest of her life i mean she would

was beloved by them but you know you'd see her get in somebody's face and it's like a little dog that doesn't know it's height or its size you know they'll just go against the rottweiler because as far as they're concerned they're they just if the fight's there they're in the fight and my mom was like that and she would she would scare people and she had a whistle she had a whistle that was like i don't know what like she could hail cabs from blocks away and i never figured out you know with her pinkies against her tongue i can never figure how to do that my friend tom lalley could do that But her, in terms of her like mannerisms and stuff, I mean, she, the medicine that she took, and not just bipolar medicine, but she had bypass surgery a few times stents. She had a lot of stents

put into her heart. She had, she was like Job towards in the last 10 years of her life, just always some new thing. And yet she, she would always kind of get herself put together to do an interview or to do a, you know, to go do a show, an episode of a show that she would do. And, but she looked pretty frail, but she had a kind of, um, tremors. They call them tremors. So I, that I'm sure, I'm not sure of that. That started probably in the 60s when she was in her 60s. The, no, the tremors were later in her life.

And they became more and more noticeable. I mean, in her 60s. In her 60s. In her 60s, I think that in the 60s, then I did. No. Um, yeah, probably. Yeah. Probably.

Yeah. And so like, out of all this, like, you, you think in a way, like, most kids, when their parents are actors or, you know. have a lot of fame. Some just go the opposite way. Like, I don't want, you know, their parents don't want them to do it. I'm sure your parents were very open to whatever you want to do and you just kind of, how did you get in a...

Well, they helped. My mother... Because you were young when you started. So my mother had suffered all kinds of abuse as a kid. Even though she was really fit. She did the Miracle Worker when she was on Broadway for a year, I think when she was 13 or 14, and then they did the movie when she was 14 or 15. I think she won the Oscar for it when she was 15.

At that point, I think she was the youngest. person to win an Oscar. But she saw, she had these managers. The Rosses were her managers and they were these people who they kind of had the industry wired in New York and they would meet all these kids and then they would, you know, they picked the ones that they thought had a chance and then they'd send them out for auditions. And if they got the parts, they were their managers. But it was, it was a little, it was almost like they were caretakers. And when my mom hit, they, it was like she was the golden goose. But he, he was sexually abusive to her. But. But, I think when it came to me after she had been like America loved her, she was the Patty and Kathy

from the Patty Duke show and she was this sweet kind of virginal, beautiful, funny thing. And then when she, when Desi Arnaz and I became friends in my mid-20s and I came to his house, his house was just down the street from here. And he was, he opened the closet door for me and there was a stack of like 30 magazines that his mother had saved for him, that Lucy, that Lucille Ball saved for him where he was on the cover page, you know, like it was him and my mom. He had a relationship with, um, uh, before my mom with, um, with Judy Garland's daughter, uh, with, um, Liza Minnelli, sorry, with Liza. Uh, and so it was a little bit of that, but most of it was the kind of, you know, turbulent Ben and Jennifer,

you know what I mean? Like they were, that was, they were the it people who were having drama and her mom wanted to save that for him so he gave those to me and i went through and read them and my mother was cast by the people writing those things as this sort of you know harlec like you know wrong side of the tracks you know she she was the older woman who was you know defiling the air to the prince of television you know desire Jr. whose name was born. It wasn't actually Desi, but, but, you know, when he was born, it was on the cover of Life magazine or whatever, a television guide. And it was, you know, all of America knew that, that Lucy and Desi had this boy, Desi. And so they, it was just,

it was really hard for her to be the, like, villain in the scenario, because that's the way they wrote about her, you know, and, and, and she was crazy. She was smoking. He was a few years younger. And they just, they just made her, she ended up. doing um uh what was the movie she played neelio hera in of the guys a valley valley the dolls she was in valley the dolls where she played a like a drinking drug addict kind of gnarly character and it was like that stuck and and she had gotten married to the ad on her show and gotten divorced so very quickly by like 24 years old she was this like spent you know and uh like she had lived 15 lives in one life so when i came along and and you know when i came along and and you know

I was six, seven, eight years old, I think she wanted to have like the perfect kid. She wanted to prove to everyone that she was like the perfect mother and that you didn't have to have the kind of turmoil that she had in her life in order to have success. So when I was seven or eight, I'm always, I always get the days a little bit wrong or the age is a little bit wrong. But I was seven or eight, and she came to me and said they're doing an after-school special. You remember these after-school specials? They would do these, like, issue of the weak shows, child abuse, teen pregnancy, drug addiction. Kind of groundbreaking.

It was groundbreaking, but it was also lame because they would just wrap it all up in a nice, neat little bow in 20 minutes, you know. But they would still talk about it at least? Yeah. So they wanted my mom to play this abusive mother. And she said, okay, but if my son can be the abused child. That's right. That's right. So I played.

Jesus. It was called Please Don't Hit Me, Mom. Please don't hit me, Mom, starring your mother as your mother and you as you. I actually just saw the poster for it. Lance Guest was in it. I don't know if you ever knew who Lance Guest was. And Nancy McKeon of, what do you call it, different facts of life fame that my brother started in for five years. So it was their three names, my mom and those two.

And then my name wasn't mentioned on the poster at all. But the poster was of my mom crying on a. couch hugging me and I had like I just remember I had this like really big hair but it was an interesting experience I mean she in the in the movie or in the yeah she was the show she was she was abusive so you were like reliving your life I mean your life essentially you were playing a part where it's like this is real yeah this is actually happening in my house but you didn't say that no one there on said no one had no one in the world knew anything that you think they just knew you think people knew what that your mom I think you could tell

I think you could tell. I mean, she was the nicest person in the world, not quite Henry Winkler, but actually some people were actually nice than Henry Winkler. But she was, she was an intense person, too. She laughed. People loved her. She was friends with people. On the set?

Did they like her? Everywhere. Everywhere. Everyone loved my mom. Do you think people for, did you think, were you thinking, do they think my mother's really like this? Or were you embarrassed? Were you, like, thinking, I mean, how did you deal?

To me, I would have been like, I don't know. Well, I don't want to. You deal with different things as a kid and they come out later in life. When I say I was abused. there were a few terrible episodes. Right, but it wasn't every day. It wasn't, I wasn't a person who would, like, I wouldn't even change my childhood now if I could go back.

I'd maybe change those few episodes, but we lived a very empowered life. I mean, we were, it was a time when you could ride your bicycle, you know, when I was five through 14, you could go anywhere, you could do anything, friends could come over in the middle of the night, you know, like you just, yeah. Climb over, uh, hedges.

to go in other people's backyard to play with football when they weren't there and walked out yeah get on your bike and go into town and be gone for 14 hours and then come back and no one ever says a word as long as you're there when they put food on the table yes and no one can understand that and I

I am I feel bad for people who didn't get to experience that sort of simple life where there wasn't phones everywhere and there wasn't because that kind of world that it was just kind of a fantasy wasn't it if you think that yeah I think a lot of kids around the world today still do experience that I think once

once people have resources is when they are start to insulate themselves a little bit or kind of control the the people that they interact with or where you go or how long you're gone and you know those kinds of things and all over the country there's you know there's places where people live like that still so but but for for me we were empowered and when my mom said she wanted to do this we would get in the car like at 430 in the morning because her call time was earlier than mine because she's a woman and women go through the makeup process longer so it was fun right it was fun it was like I'm going to work first of all what I said when she says do I want to do it I said well am I going to miss school oh no no my first thing was do I get paid

that was my first question eight years old she's like yes she goes you get $10,000 but you don't actually get the money until you're 18 it goes in an account which she was actually instrumental in helping create the law the Kugan law that made it so that parents and managers they can't take all the money they can only take a certain amount of it so so she was and Her thing was, I'll never touch a nickel of your money. I was like, well, you know, parents actually do kind of give up a lot when their kids are working. So you can see why a certain amount of the money would be. That $10,000 was probably if she kept it in that Kugan account.

Kugan account, yeah. I don't know if I ever got it. What? I must have gotten it. I just don't know. I was like, I mean, I'm sure I did. But, I mean, she wouldn't have touched it. That was a point of pride for her.

But when I was doing the Goonies, for example, my parents couldn't come with me to the set. It was like, you know, six months of work, and they had their own jobs and their own lives. And it was like, were you, did you have fun? I loved it. Was it not scared. No, it was awesome. It was awesome. It was a great experience.

Well, like I said, my child was a great childhood. There was so much fun and love and joy and everything else. But the thing that people key on are the kind of most intense, traumatic moments. So, um. Look, nobody has a perfect life. And you've had a great life. So, yeah, if you had a couple of moments or your mother wasn't perfect because she was, you know, she had bipolar and she was suffering from that and she had a couple of episodes you know what annoyed me

the most. That doesn't make her a bad person. It doesn't. You know what annoyed me the most was when she got diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And she was so she accepted the diagnosis. That's a big key. You know, it takes it takes a lot less time now to get an accurate diagnosis than it did then. Then it was like eight years, eight years for people suffering to get an accurate diagnosis. And then however long it took to get a wellness plan with medicine that actually worked right for you and stuff like that. So, but then she became the expert. She became, she wasn't actually an expert, but she acted like an expert and she was always diagnosing everybody or everywhere. But how brave, though. No, it was very brave. It was very brave. But it was annoying because she would present to the world that she was, you know, that she had

this. She loved the diagnosis because it gave her kind of a reason to explain away, not explain away but but her behavior her behavior and so what she did was she took back the power from people who would have judged her for that you're crazy you're this you're this we don't want to work with her because you know she's unstable you know your career the people in in show business your reputation is like everywhere it's everything and if you're known as somebody who doesn't show up on time or you have fits or walk off the set or argue with the director whatever they don't want nobody wants to hire you so but she was able to flip that and become someone who everyone wanted to work with because look at how strong she was and look at her courage and look at her

determination. But when you're in her house and you close the door and she would still freak out because like her food order was wrong or something, you'd be like, where's the, you know, the maven of, you know, mental health, you know, at this moment. So it was an amazing learning experience, not just the fight scenes where she would be, you know, the abuse scenes, which I was a little bit nervous uncomfortable laughter um that's my first acting story that i tell people is that you know she's she's supposed to grab me i like forgot to tell her something or i dropped a math book or i don't know what it was in the show and so she's grabbing me in the kitchen and banging me against the cupboard and so i'm laughing and the director's getting nervous you know these tv movies they don't have a lot of time to sort of

think about stuff you got to use it because it's interesting well interesting choice Sean they were just panicked because I wasn't doing what I was supposed to do. So my mom took me outside and she goes, Sean, this is my career. I took a chance on you. And I start to cry. And she's like, okay. And they go and she's like rolling, rolling. So they roll and she's beating me up and I'm crying and everything.

And then they say cut. And the director's like, God, that was amazing. And my mom hugs me and tears are rolling down my cheeks because I've just like disappointed or whatever. And she looks at me and she smiles and she goes, honey, that's acting. You did it. And you're like, oh, gosh. Good. Okay, good. That's like a good thing, I guess.

Oh, man. But she taught me practical things like, you know, this is where your mark is. You have to hit your mark. You have to know your dialogue. Be aware of your light. Be better off camera than on camera. Like a whole series of really practical useful things. You have to be better on camera, off camera than on camera. That was her thing. As a professional. That's always true. You know, to explain that, it's like, you know, when you're doing your scene with somebody, when it's your close up, a lot of actors will do their. best work but the best work and it really needs to be for your partner that you're seen partner so they can get their best work from you so you that's what a that's what that's what professionals do and i've dealt with i'm sure i've been you know there's been moments where i'm exhausted after a 15 hour day and i'm not as peppy as i'm not as intense my voice has gone i've been yelling all day and the other actors like hey you don't have to yell i've heard you yell all day you know yeah but i mean there was a famous scene

on the waterfront where Brando Brant, no Rod Steiger who played his brother for that major big scene

at the very end he wasn't there Brandon didn't want to be there for his closeup for that So Steiger used to always fuck with him if he'd see him You fucking bastard

You aren't there You know Yeah but it turned out good It turned out well But Steiger would All tell that story I did this little movie But my mom

You know There's if you pull the thread of it there's a lot of trust that happens between actors you know you can be embarrassed you can you can hurt each other even inadvertently if you're not thoughtful about what you're doing not physically but but you know acting is it's I mean not if you're just in a programmer thing

but there are moments where certain scenes are very tender and if you've had to be patient waiting to get a part and then you have to be patient to shoot your part and then you get your one little moment and somebody just kind of doesn't appreciate it it hurts you know and so my mom's thing she was always about justice and that kind of thing

is like you want to be there for the other actor because that you it's a moral obligation that you have to that person and when in school she'd be like that too you know you want to make sure

that every kid feels included and respected and you know God forbid if she was watching a little league game if a coach an opposing coach or some kid did the wrong thing

oh my God she'd lose it oh my God and they would apologize very quickly with my mother she's terrifying let me ask you this so you know

we've talked about you and thank you for being so open about that you know you're so you do yeah you always talk about on in the media everywhere you don't care no because you know why because it sounds like because that's what your mother did because that's how i was raised but just so with her practical thing and then my father like my father insisted we always have the same academic experience uh that uh that other that our our contemporaries were so if i was acting in a show i had to be able to walk off the set go to the school sit down and take the same test as everybody else and do well. That was his determination. So you can just see, I'm describing parents that love us, a mother that wanted to instill a sense of professionalism, a father who

believed in academics, and it would have been very hard to produce a kid in that environment who wasn't kind of like, you know, nice, because that was what was expected. That's pretty extraordinary. God, I can talk about this forever, honestly. How would you describe, like, Like, if you had to say in a couple of words, Spielberg, working with Spielberg. He's a quiet giant. A quiet giant. Yeah. Doesn't say much.

Well, I mean, he says, when he says something, it's always like, wow, that makes sense. Like his, you know, he has a, he's one, my wife would call one of the big brain people. What did he do before Goonies besides Jaws? Well, he did. Trying to think of what he did. Amblen was his short film. He did, I think Wasserman gave him a shot on Duel. Right.

Duel was that trucking. Was Indiana Jones around then before that was that after? No, no, no, no. Yes, of course it was. Yeah, it was before. Because short round, who was in the second one. Right. Kiwi Kwan, who you've met.

Temple of Doom. Yeah, Temple of Doom. He was, Stephen gave him a part in the Goonies playing Data. Right. So, yeah. So, yes, no, it had definitely been done. I remember walking in for the audition and looking up and there was, a poster.

I think it was R2D2 putting a crown on E.T's head. That was the point. It was George, it was the story, I mean, George Lucas, who had done Indiana Jones. Star Wars.

And Star Wars. Which was the biggest box office, whatever. He produced Indiana Jones. Right. Right? Did you write it? I don't think you wrote it. I don't think you wrote it.

No, that was Kurt's, what's the guy who wrote, Empire Strikes Back? He's the one who wrote, I think. Somebody's going to kill me out there. I know, I know. my brain's dead. But anyway, um, it's early here in California, folks. Yeah, it's a Lawrence Caston. Lawrence Cazden. Laurence Cazden, right? Who wrote Empire Strikes Back and Raiders, right? And Grand Canyon. Does that buy me back into the conversation? Is that right? Danny Glover,

yeah. Actually, my buddy, uh, Marco Black and I wrote Revenge of the Jedi, a script that we wanted to shoot with our superiors. Well, that's what it was originally called. Right. Revenge of the Jedi before they called it, which was that right? Yeah, you're right. And I did and I did a, um, mini series with Elizabeth Montgomery and Elliot Gould, I played their son, and the set teacher was friends with Lawrence Cazden. So when she saw that my friend and I had written, mostly my friend wrote it, and my brother tries to steal this story like it was his thing, but I did this. So we sent it to him and he sent us back these Empire Strikes Back books and this wonderful letter like congratulating us on how cool the script was and hoped it, hope we did real well with our film.

And his film, his film, Empire Strikes Back, it was coming out. Do you still have a letter? No. No. So let me ask you. So when you went in the audition room, Stephen's there? So my father and I worked on the audition. This is what I'm saying.

Like when I had the audition. What was this scene? It was a scene that's not in the movie now. It was a scene where Mikey is, I don't know who he's talking to, but he says, he's talking about when his dad went to Hollywood to be on the prices right. And he was given an option between door number one, door number two, and door number three. And I describe what the possibilities were. And he chose door number two or whatever and opened it up and it was a jar of toothpakes.

And it was like, and he saw how much it hurt his father. And he was like, I never want to have that in my life. I never want to, like, basically I want to make my own destiny sort of thing. Right. So really cool, sophisticated scene. Never shot it. Never shot it. Never made it.

Um, but my dad at his condo, they were separated now, divorced now, and my dad worked with me for a long time on the audition. And he kept saying things to me like, Sean, don't act. Don't, don't do what you think your idea of acting is. He says, just when I'm talking, just listen. Listen to what I'm saying. And when you're talking, just say it. This kid is you and you and nothing that's being said is out of your own. experience. So, you know, there's not, is nothing basically like that you can't understand. So we work on this. Then we drive over. That was in West L.A. We drive over to Universal on the back lot as the ambulance lot. And we pull in there. My dad had this, this Mercedes that after they were divorced, my mom gave him as this like total gaslighting thing to like give him. It was weird. And he would, he hated Mercedes. And he was like, but anyhow. So but it, and it was diesel. So you could just hear it. Here come the Aston's.

Right. So I go in and I'm in there and it's, it's, Amlin was this kind of Spanish motif architecture that he did that kind of would become known for very similar to a lot of the Indiana Jones kind of Marrakesh, you know, Morocco style looking thing. And just really cool. And it was on the lot. The guy was so successful. He had a whole complex on the lot. so I was in there waiting and nervous I was terrified you really were absolutely terrified

is the biggest director in Hollywood and and you're on the lot and you know you drive onto a lot and there's an audition it's the same thing for me when I travel like if I was I've been in London I have to fly to New York or in L.A. and fly to New York or somewhere to fly it when you have to fly somewhere for an audition or a meeting I never get it I never get it I always walk in and I don't know what I'm saying I don't know I'm nervous So what did your dad say to you? Was he like just calm down, breathe? Well, I don't know that I was showing him how nervous I was.

We worked on it and it was good. You knew it. I knew it. And so I go in there and I'm standing there waiting and the lady, you know, and it's also kind of cool. It's kind of cool like, I have a right to be here. I have an audition. Other kids around you too? No, it was late.

It was late. It was like 5 o'clock, 5.30. So you're the only kid in there. I was the only guy that's probably good You probably would have been maybe intimidated by another kid I think they'd wanted me before I even got there I had met with a casting director You think they wanted you as the lead before you even got the part

I think they knew enough about me somehow Did Stephen ever tell you that later? No, they wouldn't they probably wouldn't say that All right so go in the room So well no then a guy named Mark Marshall Who's been a lifelong friend ever since comes up And he was Stephen's personal assistant And he says hi we're going to come in now

And I was like great So we go walking down And there's just no overstating how cool the Spanish tile floor was and the curve, Spanish curved doorways and the big posters of Raiders and whatever else was on the wall and E.T. And yet it was like it was so, I don't know, I had never seen anything. Like I wanted to live there. It was comfortable. It was comfortable. It was warm.

And it's like, oh, this is how rich people that are really cool, like decorate. Right. This is how cool rich people decorate. So we're walking through and he says, are you nervous? And I said, well, yeah, a little bit. He goes, why? I said, I don't know. He goes, well, you're just about to meet the most powerful man in Hollywood.

And he opens the door. And he was, and he had this smile on his face. And I was like, okay, so I go in there and there's a big table set up, like, you know, wide table. I don't know how you'd have like a meal at this table because if you're like, could you pass this all? You'd have to stand up and reach way over. It was like a big table, like intimidating distance between you and the people on the other end of the table. Harvey Bernhard, Richard Donner, who directed it, Dick Donner, who directed Superman and the Omen and Lady Hawk and all the lethal weapon movies and, you know, Dick Donner. So he's there and Stephen's there.

So they said, well, can you just introduce yourself? And there's actually footage of this that exists. I don't know if you can pull it up on YouTube or not, but I basically say my name like 58 times. Hey, my name is Sean Ashton And I'm here to read for Mikey So my name is Sean Ashton and like I just in the like a nervous tick Just keep saying my name over and over again

And they're just sitting there watching And um Are you aware that you're saying your name so many times? No, I'm kind of like Nobody's told me what this is about I didn't know What doing a slate was Right

They've had me say this And I was basically trying to work through in my mind well what would they want me to like how would they want me to say it or what's the right way to say it and you know and it was kind of funny it was kind of like a little awkward

they were charmed by you're cute they were charmed by me and I was like awkward and nervous so we do the scene and it's really good until we get to this one point in it and I forget the line and I start shaking and they're like it's all right

you want to pick it up you want to take it over and I was like yeah can I just look at it and I looked at it oh right I remember what it was so we do it again and I'm at the same spot, I've now psyched myself up at the same spot I forget. I go, shit. And Stephen gets up

and walks out of the room. And I'm like, well, I guess I'm never going to make, you know, a movie in Hollywood. I've now, I'm a guy who's cursed. You probably don't want your, the star of your kid movie to be like a kid who, a kid who says shit. So, um, so Dick Donner gets up and he comes around and he takes a knee and he's looking at me. And I've had this experience so many time with directors and important people in my life and experience when you can tell they're thinking what is the thing I can say to get through to this guy. I really want to communicate to it. And I'm almost like, I get it. You're here. I'm here. I know you're going to try and say, go ahead. I'll listen. I don't know what I mean, I had an experience on Rudy

like this. So, but he, so he just basically tells me the same kinds of stuff my father had been telling me. Don't think about anything. Don't worry about anything. I know you can do this. We really, you know, let's let's let's let's just do it again and blah, blah, blah. So we do it again and I get to the spot and I kind of bump on it, but I glance and I kind of do it. I get through it. But it was like I never did it clean. Right. And they said, okay, thank you very much. And I went out and I got in the car and my dad goes, how to go. I was like, I didn't get it. It was what do you mean? It's like I didn't get it. I kept messing up. I couldn't remember my lines. He goes, that's impossible. He goes, you were so, he goes, I've never seen someone more prepared for an

audition and more right for a part. There's no way he messed up. I go, dad, I don't know what to tell you. At this spot, I messed up. I said, oh, shit. He goes, you said shit. I was like, yeah. He's like, I can't believe it. So we drive home, I guess we get home at like 730 or 8 at night. It's dark out. And I go in. And there's another movie that was a big movie that was casting, a Joe Dante movie called The Explorers. Yeah, I remember that. Ethan Hawke and River Phoenix and Was Will Wheaton in that one?

No. So, but anyhow, so I was like, I guess we could just start working on that show. And it was funny because we would go 11 months out of the year and not think about an audition, but all of a sudden there were these two that were like really important. I don't remember going on a lot of additions I didn't get

in a weird way. I think the agent knew, like, you know, they, I went into rooms that were had been prepared right so walked into the house my mom said they just called they offered you the part and my dad said I knew you couldn't have messed it off so good so then the question was okay so they've offered you the part and it was like 50 grand or 70 grand or something for six months or four months that would become I don't know whatever it was become so um but the explorers which the guineas was this first

fun kids picture, fun pirate adventure that I liked because I got to kiss the girl. Oh, yeah. Oh, I was fired up. The older girl. I was fired up about that. Like, I really wanted to do that. Do you see it, Rob? Yeah, I've seen goodies a lot.

Okay, well, you know. You were born after it was, uh, released. Well, you were you born? 88. Yep. Yep. 83? 85.

Five. Yeah. Punk. So, uh... So they were going to offer you more money for the explorers. No. I didn't get the offer for the explorers. I got a test offer.

So I could go. And the deal with the test deal was they negotiate your whole deal. And then you sign a piece of paper, all two or three of you who are auditioning, sign it. And then they watch you. If you get it, if you get you contract in. You're in. You're in. So they said, they said you have to choose between the offer.

It's Spielberg. So be easy. Spielberg offer with where I get to kiss the girl and a movie where I don't get to kiss a girl that if I don't get it, I lose everything. So, but my dad and the agent were like, Sean, this movie is an important movie.

It was about these kids who build a spaceship in their backyard and they go into outer space, but it was very, the way it was written. It didn't do well. No, it was terrible. I don't know if the movie was terrible, but it was, no, it did not do well. I actually remember liking it until they got into outer space

and then I thought it kind of went weird. but um but but but it would the the stakes were very high emotional stakes for these kids in their lives and that was a time when they would make movies like that like stand by me came not too long afterwards sure so uh obvious and they were like we really think you should do the explorers test because we think you'll get it and we think that's a thing and i was like yeah i was like no no way no way i was like i want to do that one oh my god your career would have gone into completely i don't know you're you were so good that you would have um i don't know i mean i think think. Did you know you were good? Well, I don't think I was good the way that River Phoenix

was good. I don't think I was good the way Ethan Hawk was good. I don't know if they had more dramatic training or they had more experience because this is what they were really focused on in their life where with me it was kind of a lark. Right. But when I, when I saw some of their performances, I would kind of think, I don't think I could do that. Like, I don't think I know. There's always those guys, though. There's always guys that look at and go. But I think I was appealing looking and I was comfortable in front of the camera charming and you're good yeah it wasn't how it was 18 where i was like hmm that probably won't be enough if you want to actually make a career out of right what was the gap between um i mean guineas you kept working the next big break was rudy right no i did um

when i was eight i did two weeks on please don't hit me mom when i was 10 i did four months on it was called the rules of marriage that mini series i mentioned right when i was i mean after Goonies. When I was 12 and 13, I did Goonies for four to five months, something like that. Then I think when I was 14, I did a movie with Kevin Bacon. And then when I was 16, I did a movie called Staying Together. And then when I was 18, I did Memphis Bell. Yeah, do you ever remember Spielberg ever, ever in four or five months? Because he was on set, right? A lot. He didn't direct the movie, but he would he would redirect scenes if he didn't like what he saw. Did you ever see? him loses cool? No, that's what I'm saying. He was a quiet giant. Never once. No, and the crew, the

way you can tell about a powerful person like that, um, the people around them behave differently. First of all, the craft service was like the four seasons, Mother's Day brunch. I mean, when on Stevens sets, you know, you know, they would, they would roll out this huge thing. The crews were quiet and lightning fast. And if he raised his finger a little, bit 50 eyes were on him to make sure that whatever it was that he instructed he got it right away and so everybody was kind of his orchestra did he like you did he like oh yeah i can't remember or did he just like was a professional and nice to you but he didn't go out of his way to go hey sean how you doing want to hang out of my house no he was sort of impish he was sort of impish you know

like this this movie i don't know how many movies he had produced that he didn't direct this is probably a rarity It was early, early days for him So I think Poltergeist was probably around that time Right before So he ended up supposedly God rest Tobe Hooper who I love Who directed Funhouse

And Poltergeist and Texas Chainsaw Massacre But a lot of people say that you know Spielberg really directed Poltergeist There's a lot of like you know I don't know if it's folklore But whatever That he was always on set And he was always so yes

I think he preferred I think Dick directed Goonnie's 80-20 I think he came back in directed 20% maybe maybe 7525 well he was an established director too and i think tobe had just done like texas chainsaw this raw well they also had they had sensibilities that really complimented each other dick understood the like you know 20 000 leagues under the sea type you know adventure swashbuckling kind of things and stephen would build little moments little moments that were like really powerful we did one scene is the wishing well scene

you remember the wishing well scene so this one's for me no okay there's that wishing well That's what Corey Feldman says in the beginning when he's like dreams. Yeah. This one's mine, right. But then they're going to leave. They're going to go up the bucket with Troy and I give him this speech.

You know, don't you guys see? Don't you realize? The next time you see Sky, it'll be over another town. The next time you, you know, Chester Copperpot, he was a pro, but he didn't come this far. Wait a minute.

Do you remember the whole speech? I'm just hitting it. Do you remember the whole thing? I just did the best I could. I can't remember. I could probably assemble it if I was on a desert island and you gave me an hour.

I want you to, I want you to make your voice 12 years old. Don't you guys see? Don't you realize? Chester Copperpot, he was a pro and he never got this far. That's amazing. Thanks to all my voice overwork. But the way they staged it, Dick Donner staged it with me up on top of that little

kind of ledge where the bucket was and then talking down to them. Like, don't you guys see and looking down and making an appeal down to them? And Stephen redirected it. Like he reshot it. he staged me down in the well just the opposite and the audience you can't see us but if you if you're following along put both your hands out and reach them towards the floor and say please help me you seem powerful and condescending right now reach your hands up to the sky and say please help me it's like a it's much it's a it's much more vulnerable so so stephen did that you know and

but dick donner directed the moment with willie at the end where we're where Mikey has a conversation with Willie and that was a very soft where he leaves Willie he goes this is for you yeah like being yeah the rest is for I got here I beat you that whole thing yeah so and that was very important to Dick that that that that the emotional tone of that be right and and he was he talked to me a lot about that there were some other really great like acting cool things he the scene in the attic where the map the map scene when he tells them where where he tells them the history of the the big battle between the ships and this the Spanish you know, the Armada, the Spanish Armada, and Willie, you know, he escaped with the Inferno,

the ship, the Inferno, and what did that whole speech? Apparently, that had been written for the Fratelli brothers, from one of the Fratelli brothers. He said, Una Forteis. Apparently it wasn't as magical coming out of the villain's mouth. So, in that attic setting, we shoot it. So Dick Donner took me outside, and again, it was when you're a kid, you remember certain things, like getting up early with my mom before the light, before it was light, or remembering that it's the end of the day, it's like past dusk and the kids have to, they're going to cut us loose, you know, that we have a certain hours they have to meet and they need to get the day. So he goes, Sean, I'm going to tell

you a story. I just want you to listen. Don't talk. Open your eyes, open your ears, and just hear this whole story. And when I'm finished, I want you to tell it back to me. I said, okay. So he told me the whole Spanish Armada story. No way. And then you just repeated the story that he told. And then he said, now tell it to me.

And I told them back. On film? Well, that was outside first. That was outside first. And when I did it, when I set it back to him, he goes, you think you can go in there and do that? And I said, yeah, it was great. So we go in there and we did it.

And we, and I, and I kind of. Because it looks like you're actually thinking. It's such good acting. It looks like you're coming up with the stuff. Like you don't remember. But you're like, there was this. And then there was that, and then there was, and you're like, oh, that's really good acting. Yeah.

And it's because you really, trying to remember. But it wasn't written. It was just remembering the story. And that's really, that's incredible. Isn't that cool? That's really incredible. Yeah. But Stephen, you know, the kissing scene, he wanted to direct.

Was that your first kiss? Probably not. No, I don't think it was. Andrea Kennedy was my first kiss. Was it a tongue? No, it was very sweet. Yeah, it was sweet. I remember being sweet, so it wasn't like it was a dirty...

Yeah, the big bummer was when I read the script, there was a thing at the end where they kiss again, where she kisses brand, played by Thanos now, right, by Josh, Brolin. And so I thought when I read the script, because I kind of read it quickly, and I was young and not a great reader. Certainly not a screenplays. anyway, but that

Mikey, that she had won him over. He had won her over. So at the end, they get to have a kiss. And somewhere in the six months of shooting, I realized that no, it was an accident that she kissed me, and she really gets to kiss him. So I was not happy when I came to that real estate. Why is he so grumpy today?

Sean looks like a real dick today. If I would have known that you could, like, make a pitch to a filmmaker, like, listen, I think I think the girl decides she doesn't like the guy that's age appropriate what if just go with me here what if she falls for the little guy

yeah that's totally believable yeah that's exactly what should happen um look we talked about like your private life you're growing up and and just I want to talk to you forever like I want to do a two part let's be friends forever well we have another guest after this but would you come back yeah

because I didn't even get into the Lord of the Rings I didn't even get I mean I don't ever really talk about that stuff It's mostly about real stuff. Uh-huh. But, like, these stories are so great that, and they're so, like, you've been in movies that are so huge. Even more on the second season of Stranger Things. You've got a new Netflix series. What's that called?

No good Nick. No good Nick. I mean, you're constantly working. You're such a likable dude. You've done so much. And you consistently work. I think you work when you want to, don't you? I never felt like that until just after Stranger Things.

So I was in my... Are you getting a lot of offers now? Well, no, I don't get a lot of offers. But now I'm really a known enough quantity. And, you know, you're talking about how I'm a chameleon or whatever. I think in the last five years, I've kind of like, and it's bumming me out because after marathons and triathlons and everything when I was so, well, yeah, I'm the dad. I'm dad on a kid show.

That's what no good. Your dad on, uh, you're, well, you're the father figure or parent figure and stranger things. Yeah, and they kill me off on that. So the Netflix puts me as a dad on another kid. I didn't see the rest of it yet. Sorry. You ruined it. Do you do friends projects?

Do you feel like a script? I'll do it. Yeah. I'll do anything. I mean, you'll do anything that you like. Well, here's the thing. There are certain things that are right to do. When a young actor walks in a room and there's an older performer in the room, if it's, you know, appropriate, if you're not interrupting anything, you go up and you say hello and you just say, thank you so much

for your life of work. You know what I mean? You just, there's, there's respect, kind of like, you shook Sinatra's hand. There's a way to be. When you're an older performer, if there's a younger performer there, if there's some way to give them an assist, help them out, give them a thought, you do that because that's like what's that's what the moment calls for there are a lot of people who uh you know kids students whatever if they have a film like it feels like the right thing in the history of the industry in that their give them a break yeah like and it's and it's good for you too it may just be a student film but yeah but i mean whatever the moment is that that kids trying to come up with if you can honor that moment right and you and you create something

special you've done something just as real in that moment as you would do in lord of the rings it's it's it's it you honor that moment so i it's harder now i think my time seems to somehow just going so fast and there's always so much stuff to do but but on there's no standing on ceremony i remember my dad i would do all these little short films you know super eight films and uh so we did a thing called the enchanted dreamer and it was basically kind of a crib from lying the witch in the wardrobe. My little brother was to starve it and he goes into the, into the cupboard or into the closet in his room. There's like light emanating from it and dry ice and he goes in there and then he falls through a stitch in time and he's in the woods.

So I go to my dad. I created this character called the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. And I was like, Dad, I want you to come and play this kind of wizard Ben Kenobi guy. And my dad looks at me and he goes, well, you know, Sean, I am a professional actor. You know, and it was so funny. Like, I think he was being serious. I think he was like, you know, like I need to call his agent. I don't know what. Dad, I'm your son.

You should just do what I need you to do to help me. And sure enough, he put on this robe, and we went into UCLA woods around UCLA, and we filmed this scene, and he was wonderful at it. I got my mom to play the queen, so I did have access to talent as a kid. I like that. Yeah, she had a lot of talent. This has been too great. I really don't want to let you go

because I know you have no time. I explained to my kids why I came here this morning. They were getting ready for school. Why did you explain? Well, I said, do you guys know where I'm going? Because they, I always just leave. They're like, okay, bye, dad.

And I don't have, they have no idea what I do. No idea. You know, they know if it's, you know, stranger things. That's cool. Yeah. And then you do other stuff. I'm like, dad, why are you doing that?

So I met this guy, Michael. We go to conventions together. And we had a kind of sacred experience going to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and Cleveland together. And I said like it was closed. They opened it up just for me and him and we went through there and it was

and so he's got this podcast so I'm going to go to his house and talk to him on his podcast and I just wanted them to like it's like with my parents you just want to try somehow to impart your value system that like we we made friends

you and I were friends now. Yeah. You're doing a podcast. My friend's doing a podcast. He wants me to do a podcast that's what you do with a friend. I wanted them to, like, please understand that it's not just money that animates dad. Like, because they know, like, oh, you're going to do a con.

That means money for, you know, a semester of private school at the high school or whatever. And they know what work is. But I just wanted them to get my value system. And they already know with their friends, but I want them to know that that's important to me. Well, that means a lot to me that you came here. You took your time. I think you're an unbelievable human being. And I love hearing your stories.

even Rob was intrigued. Rob was sleeping. I thought he was going to start snoring. No, I could tell you like that. When he likes it, like, for instance, he was like, you know, taking pictures and taking videos and like, he really enjoyed the stories. Didn't you, Rob? I did.

What was the biggest thing you'll take away today from, uh, I like the Cooney stories? See? It's funny because I, it's not that I steer away from, like, stories about working on certain things. And I'm, I'm a fan like everybody else. But, you know, you've told these stories, but, you know, I wanted to get inside. And then I did. And then all of a sudden that then these stories,

were like they just took on i don't know they were really interesting is why i liked them it wasn't like i felt like i was there i could i could picture the room i could picture the posters at amblin i could picture spielberg's face and the glasses like on his nose i could see him walking out of the room i could see donner going okay hey let's do it again i could see you looking at your pages i could feel your heart beating in that scene i could feel all those things and like you're a good storyteller and i think that's why a big part why you're successful what you did was what i don't know who your audience is it's probably mostly crazy people yeah like like me. They're all my crazies, right? And there's probably like two of them, right? Do you know

how many people is in? About six. No, no. There's a lot of, we get about 150,000 downloads a week. So what I love about the way that we, that this little interview took shape is you could see that a life that had drama and pain in it also had exquisite joy. And I think that's a good thing for people to be able to have reinforced for them. Well, thank you from allowing me to be inside of you today, Sean. It's been a real treat. I loved having you inside of me. I loved it. We're going to take a little video and some pictures and then we're good to go. I love you. By 150K, you're great. So build that audience. Thanks for listening, guys. Hi, I'm Joe Saul-Chi. Host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about

What if you came across $50,000? What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle.

A separate bucket for this addition that we're adding. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's, follow and listen on your favorite platform.