Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Sean Gunn

Episode Date: September 10, 2019

This episode is a special dedication to my dear friends Sean, James and the entire Gunn family’s late father Big Jimmy Gunn. Sean Gunn (Guardians of the Galaxy, Gilmore Girls) talks about the ups and downs of his career in Hollywood from his seven season tenure on the Gilmore Girls to his blockbuster appearances in the Marvel cinematic universe alongside directorial brother James Gunn. Sean also opens up about growing up in-and-out of doctors offices in his youth, understanding the differences between true and perceived intelligence, and the impact his loving and supportive family had on the development of his career and overall life. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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you're going to love this place. Keep it classic and cool this fall with long-lasting staples from Quince. Go to quince.com slash inside of you for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns that's q you i n c e dot com slash inside of you free shipping and 365 day returns quince dot com slash inside of you you're listening to inside of you with michael rosenbaum and i hope you listen to the new podcast in love with michael rosamombe and chris sullivan on iTunes which aired monday we love your support and to subscribe and write a review would be just really Really awesome. Today's guest is a good friend of mine.

He was in Guardians of the Galaxy 2 with me, much bigger part. He had a huge part and won as well. He's been in lots of movies. You know him from the Gilmore Girls. He's the brother of James Gunn, the director, and I'm one of my best friends. Sean has become one of my best friends. He really gets deep. In this episode, we talk about his father and his father's sick and how it's affected him.

And then two weeks later, his father, Past. Big Jimmy. Big Jimmy Gunn passed away. And this episode is dedicated to him. He was loved by everyone who met him. Just a heart of gold, a laughter that was contagious. He made you feel like he was very special anytime he talked to him. He was one of the few fathers, friends' fathers that I texted. My friend Tom Lally, my best friend in the world, I text his dad and Big Tommy. And I text Big Jimmy Gun. Sean gets into a lot of great stuff today, dark stuff. He talks about his health and how he almost died. And he talks about being the youngest. and he talks about being on the Gilmore Girls and then it got canceled or ended, I guess. And he was kind of broke and lost his house and a lot of stuff I think everybody can relate to. So I hope you enjoy this episode. Please subscribe to in love with Michael Rosenmom and Chris Sullivan

because I really love this. God, if I could just do these jobs, just doing a podcast and talking to you guys every day, man, that would be a dream, brother. Let's get inside of Sean Gunn. It's my point of you. You're listening to a podcast. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum.

Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. How do you feel about listening to yourself, Sean? I don't mind it too much. Really? Yeah, I know. It's like, I mean, my voice is a little bit weird, but. Well, maybe that's what makes you so damn interesting when you play these different roles, like Kirk from the Gilmore girls.

and like this eccentric and then you play like craggling and guardians you get it's cool when your voice is a little different like walking has a you know that distinct yeah you know it does this and if you have your own thing I would like that I would love that if people

you know people doing imitations of you it's kind of a compliment you know you've made it yeah if somebody was playing me on Saturday Night Live I'd be like my career is probably going pretty well yeah I don't think people like they try to do impressions of me like you or your brother and it's more like

hey I'm Rosenbaum I'm cool. Now, your voice is very sort of... Boring. Not boring, but it's very sort of, you know, standard English. Like, it's very, like, Midwest, you're Midwestern, but you're also the, the timor of your voice and everything is, um, it is pretty, um... Unoriginal. Bland.

No, no. I knew it was coming. If you know a gun, you know that they got a point out of you. I can't help it. No, it's good. It's good. I appreciate it. You know, you said something when we started talking when you came in the house.

First, I said, guy, you've been here a million times. You're like, actually, no, haven't. I've been here once or twice. Yeah. And we used to play mafia. That's right. And how would you explain mafia in one sentence? Or two.

It's a parlor game, which I like being able to call it a parlor game, but that I think gained its peak in Hollywood somewhere between five and ten years ago. And it's really just a game designed to pit people. against one another to try to prove their own intelligence over other people it can be fun but I think it was also like it to me it's not a coincidence that it coincided with the poker boom because Hollywood people can be very competitive in ways that that are secretive and yeah you articulate what you just did off the cuff was pretty good because I don't think I could some you know because I would say oh there's there's there's townsfolk and there's mafia and the mafia in the city

and this town and there's good people and there's bad people and it gets a little kind of i think i answered your question more from a cultural perspective yes you did what is the game yeah but yeah i think the game itself is very much um you know i think it's popular it was popular in hollywood because we're actors and you like to try to fool people and and and show how good you are it got really i don't think i i definitely think that you know you james and i and i and yarvo and some of these guys you're directed bright burn and um you know it it was one of those things where we were doing it right at the beginning of it we were really it was at my house it was at james's house it was you know it would it would get so heated to the point where i remember james we were so heated and he's

like you're a fucking liar you're a liar and and i was like what are you talking i was like you're a terrible actor you're a no then he stopped he goes i take that back you're a good actor but fuck you it was just the I mean it was and then afterwards you apologize because no dude

it got to the point where I think we we actually tried this about a year ago at James's house your sibling and Jen his girlfriend

and we played there were you there that night probably not and it just I remember Jen was getting really uncomfortable you know people get uncomfortable if they're not

if they don't like loud people like me like James were loud yes and we're you know a little boystress You're, you're, you're alphas, as people might say. I'm not sure I subscribe to that idea that there are alphas and betas as, as people.

But if I did, you are certainly more an alpha. Really? And I think James is, uh, James is definitely an alphas. Oh, yeah. I mean, obviously. Yeah. Like, you know, that's what I don't think you can be a director if you're not an alpha of some kind. You sort of have to be.

But, you know, there's times when, I don't know, I mean, as a director, the amount of responsibility, and especially the responsibility that he has now with all these things, it's like, you really have to know what you're fucking doing. And if you don't, you sort of have to fake it or you have to defer to these great people around you. So surround yourself with great people. And I think Spielberg always says that and where they just surround themselves with guys that they know are going to come through. And they can help them figure shit out because no one can be that genius where every problem is solved by them. Right. You have to have a committee.

You have to have some people that kind of help you out. My dad always used to say that his success. was due to the fact that he never hired anyone dumber than him. Wow, that's smart. Probably not true. It's probably more just something to say. But that point of view of like,

make sure you surround yourself with people who are good at their jobs and know what they're doing. Jimmy's really, really good at that. You said Jimmy. I always say Jimmy. You're not the only one that call him Jimmy? Who else calls him Jimmy? Well, all my siblings too.

They do. Most part, yeah. So, you know, I've always called him Jimmy. And I don't see any reason to stop calling me, Jimmy, just because he's, you know, and he introduced himself as James. But I think he now enjoys the fact that, like, he can bestow upon someone the honor of being able to call him Jimmy, you know. And so it's like, now it's like a gift he can give them. And he's like, it's okay if you call me, Jimmy. You talk about like your dad always surrounding, you know, he said never hire anyone dumber than him, always smarter.

You know, I do that in different ways. I've always surrounded myself with a really good people. And for a long time, I felt like I did that. And I still do because I didn't like myself. I know it sounds fucked. But I didn't really love myself. And I'm learning to. And it's kind of cool to just go, hey, dude, whatever you've done, whatever flaws you have,

whatever you think you're not. Girls that I've dated would say, I think I want to date you because you're friends. Well, let me tell you. So, and I said to you when I came in the door that I'm a big fan of this podcast. And I mean that sincerely. I've listened to like over half the episodes for sure. I love you. And it's also, it's not only does it do so, does it, do I feel like you're doing something

interesting here, but also it's particularly good for actors and actors like me who feel sort of part of the fellowship of, of being somebody who's in the entertainment industry and has been in the business for a long time. But, um, but one thing I've noticed about you is that you tend to sort of fall back. it's clear to me from listening to you a lot that you were told that you weren't very smart growing up or that you believed that you weren't and that it was something that was just sort of ingrained in you because, like, probably you got shitty grades or whatever it was, you know, or like, you know, you're, you've said that, you know, your dad would berate you for not, like, knowing more in school and stuff like that.

Sure. But I also think that it's something that you're obviously an incredibly smart. guy. I learned when I was very young because I was always told how smart I was. Like I was the opposite. I was always like, you've got this amazing brain. And I would like test through the roof and things like that. But I learned pretty young. You know, my, my brother Matt, who's only a couple years older than me. Political producer, right? Yeah. He's a writer for real time with Bill Maher. And he's incredibly bright. But when we were growing up, I noticed that I was the one who was like the, the, oh, he's, you know, I'm, I'm smart and I have all these math abilities and things. Matt, you know, he's, it takes him a little longer. And not that he's slow, but like he has a learning disability. There were things in school. He didn't get grades that were as good. But I learned pretty quickly that that was bullshit. I mean, intelligence shows itself in many different ways. And I'd get to high school and know that I sort of felt uncomfortable and weird and was not super popular. And here's my brother, who's supposed to be the not smart one.

And he's like super popular and super smart and can navigate people and can form relationships with adults and his peers in a way that I couldn't. And I'm like, maybe what people are telling me is intelligence is sort of nonsense and that intelligence is something actually much more complicated than all that. And I know now, you know, as an adult that that's definitely true, that intelligence manifests itself in many different ways. And so I don't want to take away your stick of saying, oh, no, I'm an idiot. You'll need to do that sometimes, but you're a really bright guy.

Well, uh, you know what? I've learned in therapy to, um, take things in and say, you know, just listen and hear what people say and don't just discard it or, uh, run away from it or be embarrassed by it. And, and I'm learning to just kind of look you in the eye and go, thank you for that. I really appreciate that. It's kind of you. It's very hard for me. Mm-hmm. I understand. It is because, uh, you know, you're right. You said something a few minutes ago you said when you're ingrained like you're ingrained as a child with um a perception of yourself you know and again i don't sit here saying you know going on about how bad my parents were i'm just i didn't feel certain things sure i didn't feel that i was smart i felt that you know

it was called a dummy how do you not know this say there's things in your life teachers and you start to believe it after a while you believe that well my grades aren't good people think i'm not that smart if they're not listening to me. No one listens to what I have to say. No one cares about my opinion. And my parents don't even think I'm smart. So then you're definitely like, wow, if you get to that point, I don't know.

I think I just hid behind always trying to be someone I was. Look, I think at a young age, I got self-esteem. I've talked about this. I got self-esteem and approval from doing the play. And people just, I remember this popular kid, I always tell the story, but he just says, hey, you're funny. That was it. Self-esteem goes up, approval goes up.

up and that's what I've been striving for my entire life and that's not self-worth because that is you know the colander effect it's like a colander the water just goes right through it and you know it's just what it wasn't until recently that I'm starting to understand that like what you said intelligence isn't just hey I got great grades or I'm an SAT team master because I wasn't good at either of those things I'm not even great about taking directions if somebody says I want you to do this I'm like uh I always feel stupid it's weird like I start to get this anxiety and this like numbness when I feel like I don't know what that person's saying oh my god I'm going to be ridiculed I feel stupid I'm starting to realize maybe like I couldn't have if I'm that

dumb then I couldn't memorize all those lines or I couldn't go direct a movie or I couldn't I'm starting to give myself a little bit of credit now I'm working on it yeah and I really am because I'm like okay you're not you're not obviously not stupid yeah and you didn't luck into this stuff I mean look you live you live in a beautiful house i'm sure there's plenty of things you want in your career that you haven't gotten but but there's a heck of a lot that you have gotten and and you're gratitude you're respected for the work that you've done it's not like you you know what i mean and so like all these things are things that you didn't accidentally trip and fall into it took some intelligence to make the world that you want i think every you know we live in a society i mean

not even a society but like everybody's wrong everybody's this you're stupid if you say this and how do you I'm like the kind of guy that's just off the cuff that just sort of says, speaks his mind. And sometimes it's like, well, maybe if you just shut up and think about what you're saying, you won't sound stupid. You know what I mean? Because I put my foot in my mouth quite often. And I think because I speak, you know, how I feel. And sometimes how you feel is, I don't know if necessarily feel the, I don't know how you translate that. But, you know, you're a very calm person for the most part.

I haven't seen you lose your shit. I haven't seen you lose your shit. yeah now I'm sure you did I mean I know your family I know your parents I know sure um and I know your dad it's no secret he drank oh yeah as as a kid and were you privy to that were you uh no he quit right around the time I was born but he didn't get help for it until he was a little older so a lot of that you know what people talk about um you know uh being a dry drunk where you maybe technically sort of quit drinking but you haven't gotten any help or any counseling for it. And so you kind of still display all of those same characteristics that an alcoholic might

have. And so I'm very familiar with that part of my dad. And he also, you know, had pill problems and like, you know, would take stuff for his back and things like that. And so I remembered all that until he got help for it when I was like a teenager. And there was a very clear change in my life and in my upbringing from that point on after my dad really got help for those things. And things, um, our family dynamic changed a lot. And my upbringing changed a lot. When you say a lot, was that something that you, uh, just by hearing from your brothers and sisters or whoever else, did you feel like sense that there was this volatility when before you were born that there was sort of like an imbalance and, you know, a lot of feuding in the, in the family? More than anything,

it was that my dad was physically not very present. So he were, he would work like, I mean, And, you know, when I was a very young kid, my dad would work like 100, 120, 140 hours a week. You know what I mean? Like, he was just not. Did he love it? There. Was he a workaholic? Way workaholic.

And Jimmy has that too. Jimmy's inherited that from him. Yeah. But he was very, he would work all the time. And, you know, you can go back and sort of psychoanalyze that from different perspectives. I mean, was it really just loving his job that much? much was he not wanting to go home as much was he like who knows but my memory of my dad when i was super young is that he would come home from work usually fairly late and that when he came

home everything in the house it was time for it to sort of like stop and be quiet and like the you know it's like the the boisterous part of the day with all of you know like there's eight people living in this house and so the so you were still the others were around still when you were there yeah and then they started to go to college and then i got a little you know older and i think i i guess when i was around 10 is when is when my dad kind of like got help and started to it makes sense it why did he get help because of my brothers because because because they passed her they sort of like well no i think he just saw he was invested in it i mean he really did love his family and his kids and my my my brother James quit drinking and started to it became introspective you go into treatment you get sober you look inside you start to like do you know and it's the early 80s you know early mid 80s it was like it started to become fashionable to to really look at yourself and to see and and and I think my dad wanted to support my brother and then my brother my next brother also like got sober and and I think my Patrick yeah and I think and I think.

I think, you know, in the process of my dad wanting to support them and seeing what it was, they were going through it, he did it himself. And he started to say, oh, I have all these patterns of behavior that were, that were not good for my life. And from that point on, my parents changed so much, you know, around the time that I was like 10, 11, 12 years old. So my oldest brothers at that point, when I was 10, 11, 12, they were 16, 18, 20. so for them it was already they were in early adulthood but for me I was still a kid right but that's the house that I grew up in I don't really know the house that gym built yeah has the big gym built yeah yeah inside of you is brought to you by rocket money I'm going to speak to you about something that's going to help you save money period it's a personal finance app that

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job. How doesn't everybody have Rocket money? It's insane. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with rocket money download the rocket money app enter my show name inside of you with michael rosenbaum in the survey so they know that i sent you don't wait download the rocket money app today and tell them you heard about them from my show were they always loving parents because now you know i see them and i see this side that you know he's just such a a calm lovable you know he calls me rosy he's like rosy how are you he's great and just like this soft spoken man and so when i hear stories about like you know he was a big drinker and he can get a little physical or he could get whatever and he's just this guy he's like hey fuck i got made mistakes and now

i've got this new life and was he one of those fathers where he's said i'm proud of you sean i love you son you always felt that constantly you know and my and and as you know my dad's get you know he's uh he's getting older and his his health is is uh failing him now and so you're kind of looking back over over a life and my brother um my brother matt said to me it's sad that we're seeing our our father sort of reached the the end of his life but look at all these great things first of all that he accomplished look at this great family that he he helped sort of raise and teach and and matt said have you have you ever wondered whether you were loved or whether you know If you ever questioned whether our parents were proud of you or loved you?

And the answer is no, they told us constantly. And I grew up being told that like, hey, anything you want to do with your life, we support you. And you can go ahead and do that. Whatever it is you want to do, like, we'll do that. My parents told me that always. And I grew up thinking that that's what parents say to kids. Like, I just thought that that's, well, let's say, like, that's what you're. No, I know.

They are. And it wasn't really until I got. to college where I realized how many people had parents that, like, discouraged them from doing the things that they wanted to do. Or weren't that influential or supportive or just didn't care or checked out or, you know, all those things. And like, I don't want to say that I came from this model family. I didn't.

My parents certainly had their ways in which there was a lot of things about my family that weren't perfect. And in some ways, I feel more raised by my old. siblings than I do by my parents but you know I've great older siblings so yeah that kind of works out too yeah I you know so weird I became the believe it or not like I was the one like right in the middle sort of I remember my older brother calling me like two in the morning he has anxiety attacks and I'm sort of walking him through it as this drunk 19 year old kid in college and you know my mom telling me she's going to kill herself after my parents got divorced and like mom I just got

my first TV show and I got to be in work in the morning and please don't kill yourself and you know my sister just I'm always their therapist until one day some of the best advice I ever got were my therapist my therapist from a few years back I always see you get a little bit from everybody even if they're not whatever you wanted you get something and he said you know because I'd say you know my mom's crazy this is this he goes you know what's crazier is you thinking you could make them different or change them and make them the sister or mother whatever it is that you want or you trying to fix them that's crazy that's fantasy that can't happen so you're wasting your time by doing this and you're enabling and your energy for yourself that you're not giving

yourself all this energy it's exhausting and that's all you do is help i did this indiogram it's called i didn't know what a fucking indiogram is i'm not going to sit here and tell you i did but this one therapist is take an indiogram just take it and i go what is it just take it it's 20 minutes i'll send you the quiz And it tells you personality traits. It tells you what you are. And of course, I was number one helper, number two loyalist, number three, enthusiast. Which of course, look at ma'am. Full of enthusiasm.

Yeah, right. To me, I have a weird relationship with it because on one hand, I did have this great, I'm incredibly, I'm incredibly privileged in so many ways. I have this great family, you know. I'm like, you know, I'm a straight white male. You get all the things that go along with that. Yeah. And like, and, and so I'm incredibly privileged, but I also, I had a lot of health problems, which, which I never, you know, would make me feel like an outsider.

What health problems? Um, I, I, I had all, I've, I've had a lot of health problems in my life growing up. I, I, I had a bunch, I had several major surgeries in the first several years of my life. Um, I have a lung condition, uh, called restrictive airway disease, which is, you, you know, in the family of having asthma, but it's not. It's something a little different. And I was born with a pectus. So I had this like hole in my chest, which doctors for, for the first 10, 12 years of my life.

And then beyond that, thought they weren't sure if my body was going to be able to develop. They thought that my chest might actually collapse in on itself as I got older. So, this is what your parents were hearing. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And so I went to doctors constantly. I would go like once a week. Did you hate it?

No, I grew up with it. So that, like, I go back to the, I'll go, I'd go to the hospital a couple months ago. But I'll go into a hospital now and that smell, you know, that distinctive smell of a hospital. It's very comforting to me. Really? Which is like totally the opposite of almost everyone else I've ever known. I understand it. I get it because it's like for us, I mean, look, I've had a lot of surgeries, two spine surgeries and everything.

And there's a comfort to it knowing that, hey, there's a comfort to it knowing that, hey, there's people here are going to help you? And I mean, did they think you're going to die at the young guys? Did you have any scares? We're like, hey, Sean might not make it. Well, I had a major surgery when I was like four where I had major reconstructive chest surgery. And so that was certainly a life-threatening surgery. And then I had a board strap to my back that likes to keep my chest upright as a kid, which made me sort of this little weirdo. I was incredibly skinny. I was like, you know, my brother still likes to tell the story in interviews of how I used to I used to go through a wire coat hanger, just a regular wire hanger.

I would put my whole body through it without bending it. And that was like until I was like 12, like pretty. Did you hate it? Oh, I loved it because I was a performer. And so I hit it now. I hit it now when interviewers bring it up and they're like, hey, somebody said you had this great trick you can do. I'm like, yeah, when I was a child, you know. But, but I, so I was like this mascot.

you know, where my siblings would trot me out and have me do these tricks for their friends and things like that. And if it was James, I'm sure, Jimmy, it was mean. Yeah, yeah. It was always kind of half mean, you know. Of course. And, but I was, I was a performer. I told jokes I would like to get, and, and I had, I had then what I still have now,

which is that when I, when I perform in front of people, I feel alive in a way that, like, nothing else really gives me. I mean, you don't get in. I do get nervous. I do. But that there's an excitement to it. That feeling when you're, you must know it. I mean, you're a performer. So I'm a feeling when when you're like in the zone. Yeah. You're an ex performer. You should know about. I'm an ex performer. You used to be an actor. Yeah. I was an actor once. Oh, God. No, but I, you know, that feeling when you're kind of like everyone's watching and you know you have them. Like it can happen on stage. It can happen like I hosted an award ceremony and it happens there or you go into an audition that's like filled with a room of people and you know when you've got them. Like you can, you can feel it. You know what I mean?

And like, what feels better than that? I don't, I still, you know, I still, that's the dragon I chase today. Yeah. I mean, I've just always wanted to perform. I still, it's one of the reasons why I get some inspiration by listening to your podcast because I like listening to these people that have had all sorts of different careers that have taken left turns and right turns and it goes in a direction where they don't know where it's going to go because I still have you know like whatever I had an audition yesterday that I want so bad and I don't

think I'm going to get it and it's killing me it's killing me today you know and I still have it all the time so you know what that's one thing as much anxiety as I have and all the other shit I have always been really good about not getting something to me it's almost a relief i don't have to put so much into it and you know my work ethic has to change and i think of it did i think from a young age i i just worked to the point where it's like you take a break from this you don't have to work all day on a part every day you could spend two or three hours and then go have another life and i work so hard that i think it affected me and i know what my work ethic is And I just, that's, I've had so much success that it's hard to change at this point because

that's how I do it. When I have, I have that relief sort of after an audition where I leave and I just rip the pages up and I throw them in the trash before I leave the, and I leave. And, you know, what I don't like is people, hey, you know, I don't tell my mother about auditions. I stopped doing that and I think 99 or maybe 2000. Sure. Because it was like, did you get it?

Yeah, yeah. I know. Saving Private Ryan is already in theaters. I did not get the fuck. part which I did audition and there's sometimes I'm very good at watching something going God you could never have done that this guy killed it Ed Norton in that primal fear God he killed it I was very very close to getting that oh god back in the day and I go I couldn't have done that he's extraordinary but then there's some stuff I watch and I go I could do that you could have done that you could

I wouldn't have done it that way but listen what I'm saying is he was I know I know that's not he was so genius that I don't think I would have made that kind of choice I'm saying like believe it or not like I'll watch some things and it sounds cocky but I'll go well that he's genius and he's great and he deserves every award in the world but I could have done that yeah you know what I mean I will say that or I'm I'm confident about things but I'm also like realistic and I'm and you know I don't have to have everything but like I well I've been doing it long enough to know that that like that's the way the job works is you go in an audition and that's your job is to audition and once it's done it's done you know and like that's that's like you

said you rip up the sides when you're walking out like that's the mindset like that's the the athletes mindset actually doing that in practice is tricky in different ways you know yeah leaving it on the field so like that easy i'm pretty good at leaving most of them on the field there are those ones that get under your skin you know and those ones that are like what are the ones without saying the last one because you probably can't say the last one who knows maybe maybe they'll maybe they'll maybe they'll still call although it's TV so usually get a call the next day on TV you know movies can be weeks before you hear anything you never know you never know it's true urban legend was I remember some bumping into some girl and she goes are you Michael resinbaum and I'm like yeah she

goes my name's Tara I'm sorry Terry doesn't talk like that yeah she's like I'm Tara Tara Terry and I'm like oh hey I don't know you I didn't know I don't know anybody and she goes um you're gonna play my boyfriend in urban legend and I go ha that's funny I audition for that like a month ago she goes no you're you're the guy they they already told my agent that you're the guy I'm like why am I finding this out from you oh god just not call my agent the next day oh we haven't heard anything yeah right and of course about a week later I get a call saying hey man you booked the job there you go you got so that it does happen but it is rare they like you were if I'm unless I'm mistaken you were with Tara Reid when I met you yeah I don't think you would ever remember this

it was probably 19 98 and if I'm not wrong to correct me if I'm wrong but were you at a rap party for the movie I think it was the movie Basketball. It was one of those Tray Parker Manchin. Was it at the Playboy Mansion? Yes. I was. And I met you there. Molly Crew or a, uh, who played there? Um, wasn't it like Metallica or something? Yeah. Yeah, Metallica played a private concert. And I was there. My brother Patrick was involved in the

production of that movie somehow or distribution, I guess. Um, and, was they nice? And I was there and I was there with Jamie Kennedy and you knew Jamie and Jamie and Jamie was a friend of mine. Right. And he introduced, no, no, no, it was literally like a, hey, uh, hey, uh, hey, uh, hey, uh, hey, uh, hey, nice to meet you. Uh, good. Yeah, whatever. Yeah. Yeah. And I, uh, and that, that was when I met you, but I, I mean, we, I didn't really meet you until years later. But, um, anyway, where was I going with that? So you leave it on the field. You leave auditions on the field. But I also am not. I, I feel like I keep. almost leveling up in my career you you are obviously leveling up then i do when i'm not looking for it and then i don't again when i think i'm going to you know what i mean yeah sure and like things were going for me as well as they could have ever been going having had the revival of gilmore girls come out and be a huge success and having guardians two come out and be a be a huge success and to have like an arc in that movie and have a substantial role and have a lot of press from that and

have been doing the rocket stuff, which I didn't get as much, you know, acclaim for, but then more people knew about. And then, and so I'm like, hey, man, I'm right here. I'm ready for things to go down a bit. Then I went and I did the biggest movie of all time, Infinity War and Endgame as Rocket, you know, but it's not my face. It's not my voice. I spend a year doing that and then I can't get a job after I'm done doing that so like it's like this weird I have these weird ups and shows yeah and you know obviously that's the career it's just like you know that's the career we chose and you love it and you hate it but you know I look at your career and we met what they're called sunset sundays yeah that was my house your house you used to have

sunset Sundays and james would invite me over and I'd go to your place and that's where we met me you have cheese and wine yeah all this stuff and that's where I meant that's where I met all that, the motley crew of people and the Yarvos and the Steve Aegees who, you know, and everybody ended up working on Guardians and a lot of James's projects. And, um, you know, we always got along. We always like, we hit it off. And I always liked you. And then fast forward to, I just went to your wedding. Yeah. You know, and you married Natasha. And yes, it was about a month ago. It was in Catalina. Yeah, yeah. And everybody was there. And it was just a, it was a fantastic wedding. It really was. Oh, thanks. Just the, the little picnic area.

It was so beautiful. And it meant a lot to me that you made it because I knew you had been, you had surgery. I didn't want to miss it. I'm getting my ass out there. But everything, it's like you look at, you know, and I just love seeing it because I remember you did Gilmore Girls. And I remember there was a lull there for a while where you were like, fuck, dude, I need to work. Yeah.

I don't, I need to pay my rent. And it's, it's tough. And it's, God, it's just like one day you have a series for seven years. Sure. And then the next thing, you know, you're like, I can't. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I lost my house.

I mean, and I don't, I like to be up front about that and not be sort of embarrassed, but I think it's important to not be embarrassed by things like that. Yeah, I had that house that was up on the hill and Silver Lake. And it was just kind of a perfect storm of, you know, it was like a little over my head. Is there in the relationship end too? There was a relationship that ended, but it was mostly just like the series ended. Work got slow in a way that it never had been. in my whole career so like i i had always booked at a really good rate you know until after

go more girls ended which is like and then all of a sudden i wasn't working that much and then the housing market collapsed you know so like everything all that the whole financial crisis was that your lowest time um yes yes were you were did you did you feel like i'm depressed it was i had anxiety what did you do about it um i don't know i think i moved on i think i moved on You know, I just kind of pressed forward. I did go to therapy, but not to a little bit later. Like I didn't write during the worst part of things. But I was pretty low.

And I was like, what am I going to do? I'd never had a, I made my living as an actor from the day I moved to L.A. Like, I never had a day job in L.A. I, like, had made just enough money doing commercials in Chicago. when I moved to L.A. to be able to like to like kind of ride my first six, eight months of not working until I book started booking jobs and start working. And so I had always, I'd been supporting myself as an actor, often just barely, but been supporting myself doing that for, you know, 15 years, well, yeah, till like 2012. Yeah. So like 15 years, close to 15 years. And then all of a sudden, like, I was out of money and I lost my house. And I'm like, what am I going to do? What are you thinking of getting a real job? I had to. I'm going to have to get a real job.

I had to. Dude, the day, well, I was going to start teaching because it was the one thing that I'm like, I'm qualified to do this. I don't, I don't love doing it, but I can do it. And I had done some acting, I'd done some coaching for, for friends and had good success. Like they'd booked roles when I had coached them for auditions and stuff. And I had taught some a little bit, like some workshops and stuff. And I was like, I was like, I guess I'm going to do this. and I wrote up a plan to do it and I was going to post this thing where I was going to do some acting

workshops and like my brother called me and said hey I want you to come do guardians for six months in London like right then like the day that I was going to post those things on Facebook saying that I was going to do these acting workshops and it was devastating to me like I just never I never had a big ego about being like hugely successful or hugely famous but I always had a pretty big ego about being good and being hireable and being an actor is my profession. It's not my dream. You know, like, to me, the word dream is associated with something that's not real. And so I was always like, no, it's not, this is not a dream.

It's my profession. It's what I do for a living. I am not my work. Ray Nelson said that. Well, I might be my work, but I don't know. But I, uh, but I, I always felt like very connected to the fact that like, I wasn't worried about my career collapsing and then it did. Yeah.

Not that we have to go into it, but I kind of want to go into it because I really, I look at these pictures and I look at the videos and I see you on set and I see you as rocket. It's equivalent to like Andy Circus in, um, Lord of the Rings. Kind of as Gallum in a way. Here's where it's different. I always, I need to point out where it's different. Okay. First of all, the process is different because Andy,

Circus actually has all the like digital balls on his face and stuff. So there's actual motion capture. So the performances is digitally altered through an algorithm where they take somebody's performance and turn it into another one digitally. I don't do that because Rocket is too different from a human. He's the size up to your like mid shin. Right. And also his face. His face has like a snout. It's not a human with face. So when they do it digitally, it looks stupid. So what they are doing is they're actually looking at what I'm doing and then manipulating it.

The animators are like animating what I'm doing. But they can change it. They can tweak it. Also, I'm not playing the role. I mean, Bradley Cooper comes in later and does the voice of the character. And he completes the performance. It's like there's several people involved first. And then he's involved.

There's three steps. There's you doing it. Then it's sort of like animated or whatever. and then the voice right and then it's animated again so it's almost like there's almost like an animation draft and then he completes it and then the animator's like really complete when they asked you they asked you they said james said hey you're going to play rocket i mean first of all how did he know that you would want to play rocket like playing this crawling around like physically uh i mean we we didn't know he first of all he knew i would want the job because as i said i was i was

Of course. But we didn't know what that was going to look like. He just knew that he wanted a real actor to do it on set so that the other actors weren't talking to a blank space or a tennis ball on a stick or, you know, a PA holding a binder in their hands. So you're saying all the lines and everything. So he's like, so I want you to come do it. He's like, at the very least, I want you to read it for the read through. We're going to figure out what we're in. But there was some ridiculous.

I mean, like there was this thought that maybe, you know, we, we had a little person that was going to walk around as rocket with a speaker like hanging from her neck with my voice coming out of it. And it was the most bizarre and awful thing. You know, we did the first rehearsal and we ever wonder how dark the world can really get. Well, we dive into the twisted. the terrifying and the true stories behind some of the world's most chilling crimes. Hi, I'm Ben. And I'm Nicole. Together we host Wicked and Grim, a true crime podcast that unpacks real-life horrors one case at a time.

With deep research, dark storytelling, and the occasional drink to take the edge off, we're here to explore the Wicked and Reveal the Grim. We are Wicked and Grim. Follow and listen on your favorite podcast platform. Like, okay, let's get this thing up on its feet. and I was like, I'm just going to get down and start doing it. And I have a very, I'm very limber and I have a weird sort of body type and incredibly open hips.

And so I was able to kind of crouch down and start doing the role. And it was like, this is what works. And so that's what we, that's what we did. How demanding is it? Honestly, I mean, you can't tell me that you're not physically like, for me, I look at it and I'm like, my knees would kill my back, my neck. It's demanding. Everybody always think it's my knees, but for whatever reason, my knees are.

are fine. It's my ankles and my feet that hurt really bad at the end of the day. Do you have in your contract that you have to have like massage therapists? I was going to try to put it in there for three honestly, but I haven't yet. It's funny because I'm starting to get too old to do it, you know? And like one of the many, many bummers about my brother getting fired from Guardians three was that was that it postponed for like two years, you know, or however many years. I wanted to play Rocket in the third movie and then put it to bed and not do it anymore

because I'm getting too old to do it and then after it was like oh well now we're postponing the movie for another however long we postpone it it's like damn it I gotta like I'm gonna have to do it when I'm even older but I have to finish it I mean I have to finish the you know

the first one to play Rocket to play Kraglin at the same time Craglin wasn't as big of a role as the one in the second one, obviously. Right. Was the pay shift? Yeah, for the first movie. Yeah. Like, were you like, I am getting $5,000 a week?

Yeah. I mean, I, I'm trying to think of exactly what it was, but it wasn't good. I mean, I was, I think I got, I got paid scale for Craglin, but it was a few weeks of work. And I got, should I just say, I mean, should I like, you know, I got like a Schedule F contract for, for a rocket, so I was paid up a lump sum for the full, for the full, for the full. full course of the thing. But you probably worked. You're probably working 14 hours a day for five days a week, right? Well, not exactly five days a week.

I mean, Rockett's rule is not quite that big in the first movie, but I worked a ton. And I know on the second movie, I, you know, I mean, that was a little different and the pay was better, obviously, but the, but on the second movie, I had the most number of days on set of anybody. How many days on set? Yeah. I think like, you know, mid-50s or something. That's scary?

I'm like, oh, fuck, can I do that? no I loved it that's what I want all the time you just want to be on set I wish I was going tomorrow to do that just want to be on set I really well I just want to be employed you know like I like my days off I love it it's so nice I like my days off when I'm working you know but I really I I've always love acting and I feel like now I try to make a point to love it more than ever because it's so much harder in some ways you know you said before that you hate it and you love it you know and i think that that's true and because of the reasons that i hate it i try to make my loving it that much more love it that much more yeah when i love it and like i you know my wife she's said you know you've work every day if you could yeah you get that gun gene i just want to work all the time well the weird you know the weird flip side of that is that i've worked i've worked so little i mean i i i've worked a lot on on the guardians movies and stuff but like my god for on Gilmore

I was on Gilmore Girls for seven years from like 2000 to 2007 and I had buddies that were like dude you have the sweetest gig in Hollywood two days a week because I would I would work you know we would do eight we would do eight days per episode is that what you guys did we did 10 because they did two

for special effects or like oh right okay right yeah so yeah yeah so we shot eight days per episode long hours on that show but my character was like comic relief and I would work, you know, one or two days an episode. Maybe if I had it, maybe it was a big episode for me. I'd work four days.

Were they pains in the asses? Who? Lauren. Um, let me say this about about, because she's, by the way, fantastic. People will write about it. She's a fantastic actress. She's a lovely person. She is a lovely person.

I've met her. She's awesome in person. She's a fantastic actress. She's enormously talented. But I just wonder like, God, if I had to learn those lines, that meant that much stuff. I wonder if it just drove her crazy. There were just reams and. reams and reams of dialogue every episode you know a minute a page is sort of the rule we we had a

42 minute show and we averaged i think 82 page scripts so we were that's how much dialogue she's learning a movie in a week we were doing over 10 pages every we averaged over 10 pages every i would have collapsed i'm not even joking for the whole series would have died and it's reams and range of dialogue and we had to be verbatim or we'd do it again and who's the creator friend of amy sherman caledino right she's a genius i sat next to her at the wedding i didn't know who she was she was at your wedding yes and we started talking and laughing and goofing and like being corny and talking shit and the next thing i know i'm like oh wait a minute you're the you're the creator of the gilmore girls and the marvelous and marvellous and marvellous and she's amazing you're a genius she's like well fuck you

oh my god i love them yeah they're great and they and at the time they were scary to me when i was hired and when I was on the show was like she was my boss so she was the you know the top top of the show and I look back now you know that was 20 years ago and I look back and I was like she was like in her mid 30s and was a female showrunner in a male dominated how impossible is that world yeah and putting her foot down and saying no I really want the show to be the way that I want it to be and I think there was a lot of times and she's like I'm really not all that interested in your notes you know to the like and she's a fucking genius and i'm so so lucky to have worked with her and with dan as much as i did and i i i understood why it had to be verbatim that's not

complaining i'm not saying like oh it had to be verbatim can you believe that it's like no it was this old school kind of film comedy style it's why i got cast to begin with i read the script and i'm like oh this is like um the front page and bringing a baby in these old Hawkscripts like I was a student of film and so I knew that like this is the style of the show. You said that to her? No, I just knew it. I just knew the style. I just knew it and I performed it like that and she responded to it.

I don't think I've told her that to this day, but I'm sure she knows. Back to Lauren Graham. So the point is this. They were worked. She and Alexis, particularly Lauren. But Lauren and Alexis were worked so ridiculously hard that I think that it made them a little bit nuts. And I would imagine she would say the same thing if she was here, that, like, it got to a point where, like, that show just started to crush the leads. For me, it was great.

I had my one, one or two days. Like, yeah, I would have long days, but there weren't that many of them. And so it was, like, awesome. So when I hear her, she's difficult to work with, it's like, no, you know, like, she's wonderful to work with. She's a great person. And you have to understand all these things within their context. was she totally sunshine all the time like who is definitely not i don't know anybody's always right or they're on mollies right yeah john lithko maybe but um yeah you know yeah exactly

all right so that's fair that i i totally get that yeah i like all of the people that i worked with very much it was not an easy set to work on yeah it just was tense um it it was it was long there were very long hours and people get frustrated And crew guys. Especially crew guys go, fuck it. I don't know. Every day.

Every day. Isn't that hard? When people are, every day, there's nothing like just having fun and everybody's energy. It's just, but when it turns a little sour

because people are working so hard, like I look at those Game of Thrones shows, and I'm like, oh my God, they're probably dying, shooting this. It's probably their last day of life. They're going to die the next day.

Yeah. So I get a crew. There's nobody, they say that the average, you know, I don't know if it's TV director or TV producers. They live like in their 50s. They're just,

their heart gives out there. Oh, God. There's like crazy shit. All right, I want to talk to you about this. You know, I love Jimmy. He's one of my best friends.

Is it hard to work for your brother? He's an amazing individual. I love him. His heart is, uh, it's gold and he's a genius and all that. And we talk, he's alpha.

We, we both know that and we love it. And I am too. And, you know, um, look when I worked with him I worked with him for a couple of days in Guardian so you know I you know but I'm sure those those moments get really tense and they're like you know

and he wants done things done a certain way if there any times where as a brother you forget like you're like hey I'm just gonna you know he's like he's like Sean Sean no no I need you to yeah it doesn't last very long my brother is really good at his job so that makes it not hard you know to to work together and our jobs fit together very well. He's a he's a creator and he's a writer-director and I'm an actor. And we have a shorthand for communicating with one another that is good or better than he has with any other actor, I would think. I love working with my brother. It's easier being on set with him than it is with just about anyone else. There are times when he gets a little tested with me, but for the most

part, he's kind of his best self when he's on set directing. And he's such a maniac for pre-production and for preparation, so much of the work is already done when we're on set that we actually, as actors, have the ability to really play with the scenes and figure out what the scenes are about and have that be the focus of the day rather than all the other shit that people can be obsessed with while they're trying to shoot a movie. He does a good job of creating that cocoon for the actors so that we're really just sort of working on the scenes. And so at the end of the day, it's like, I get that.

question all the time what's it like working with your brother and the truth is it's better than it is working with just about anyone else like that's the one thing from now until the end of my career if he calls and says i need you to do this for me i do it because that's awesome i love that you know because yeah i mean that's the sort of the contract that we that we have with yeah with one another but you know you've you've worked with him on set he's he's really um he's just he's really low key on Yeah. He's more high strong, you know, like I'd imagine that in a real life. I imagine that if there are people that get the full brunt of his bad side that he works with, it's people that aren't living up to his high standards in the earlier part of the process, you know, I bet he yells more in the production office than he does on set.

But I think people for the most part like working with him. I mean, yeah, I haven't heard one thing that, you know, one person that doesn't. And I think that it's like, I mean, look at the great director. like Kubrick and you know there's a certain level like you said of um you know preparation and you know if you watch these old videos with shelly long he's like shelly what are you doing oh god set action did you ever see that the uh documentary for the shining i think you mean shelly deval shelly deval would it be pretty funny if that was shelly long and the shining um no i haven't seen that documentary but i've heard i've i've read about that it's incredible tormented her and

like you know um and that doesn't sound very nice let me ask you this, you know, when this whole thing happened with James, when he got fired off of guardians and thank God he got, you know, reinstated or whatever, and he's back. And what went through your head? Like, it's got to be just tough as a brother. It's like you always have your brother's back. Yeah. That was a very strange experience for me. And there's a part of me that wished that I, like, kept a journal through that, you know, because those days, particularly right in the like the two weeks, two to three weeks following he's getting fired were very strange because I was in a unique position. I'm both his brother and somebody who, you know,

supports him down the line. And I could go, I could go one direction and be like, let me try to actually support my brother and tell you why, why what he did either wasn't that bad at all or at least probably wasn't as bad as you think it was in terms of the tweets from years earlier that he got fired for. But then I'm also a member of the cast. So at that same time, the cast is, you know, I'm communicating with my colleagues and with Chris and Zoe and Dave and Palm and Karen and Brooker primarily. And the public statement that we made that we all signed, we really collaborated on that. And so I'm kind of like writing this fence where I'm supporting my brother, but I'm also wanting to, as a cast member, do exactly the right thing in

terms of putting on the public face. And I wanted to, I wanted to write my own statement that supported my brother, but that also put it in some context without flying off the handle. I mean, my gut instinct was to be furious. And I wish I could have in many ways been as upset. as say Batista was about it. Oh, yeah, he was pretty vocal. Bautista was, was livid, outraged.

It still is in many ways. And God, I love him for it. And I wanted to kind of be right there with them. First of all, I don't quite have the career where I can do that. Because I don't have, if all of a sudden I become known as somebody who's difficult in some way, I'm not there yet. You know, like I can't, like I remember Batista saying to me, you know, fuck him. If I get blackballed, I'll go wrestle in Japan. um and it's like i can't go wrestle in japan maybe i could i don't know we'll see after but

also i didn't pack the same punch as other people did in terms of defending my brother so any defense i gave i knew that people would say well yeah you're his brother so you have to say that um so i knew that what i said had to be smart enough that people really took it at least a little bit separate from the fact that i was his brother so it was really like this time and i'm like Oh, my God, I want to, I want a fire back. I never felt so much pressure to say exactly the right thing as I did in those days following his getting fired. And I was hopeful that it would like, I don't know, blowing over is exactly the right term for what happened. But I think that what has happened since in terms of him getting rehired has been appropriate.

And from this point on, it's like, I'm happy to talk about it. If people want to talk about it, but I love not having to talk about it, too. you know you won't talk about no no no you know what i mean you know it's like i'm but like i it's it's pat right i'm an actor i don't want my name in the paper for anything other than than giving a great acting performance how many times did you look at what you had written because you did write something how long before you actually send it because with us i think we're fiery if i see something i'm like you know what fuck take a deep breath you're not sending anything until you really really think about this and that's hard to do especially when you're coming

from a place of just it's like it's in your heart it's in your stomach it's in your it's everywhere and it's just like you want to defend my brother right you know or whatever um how long did it take before you said okay this is how long did you how many times did you look at it and um pre-scented it was i i remember that it was that he was fired on a friday and it was right when my then fiance and and now wife and i had had started to take a road trip to St. Louis to see my parents. And we got in super late at night and I could barely sleep and I woke up and I wrote my statement at like six in the morning. It took me about an hour or so to actually write it. And then about five or six hours of rereading and rereading. And Natasha was incredibly helpful in not only helping

me edit it and say, I think you should take this out and I think you should say this, but also in sort of steering me in the right direction and saying, you know, just keep in mind. you're writing this statement to come from a place of, like, love and generosity of spirit. I know that you're angry, but having your anger come out in this statement is not going to be helpful for James. It's not going to be helpful for you personally. So, like, keep your eye on what's important as you write this. And, like, she was really helpful.

But, yeah, I just read it over and over and over and over again. And I give it to my brother, Brian, to say, you know, because they're like, is there anything in here that because at that time, there's this fear that, like, I'm going to put out a statement. And I'll say one wrong thing in there. And then all of a sudden I got a hundred people on me. All of a sudden, Marvel's like, oh, yeah, well, now his brother's fired. Oh, yeah. Now his brother brothers.

Right. His whole fan. So let me ask you this. You know, we'll wind this down. You know, I went to the wedding. It was beautiful. And I noticed you had your parents were there alive, like a face time or something. And they were kind of watching this because your dad's been sick.

And he's in St. Louis. And I know that was hard on you. I know it's hard on the entire family. And then we've had conversations about this. you know it's it obviously makes me sad i can't imagine how you guys feel but you know it had to be tough making a decision like hey should we cancel the wedding should we should we should we you know what what is there to wait for and i liked it's like your dad's sick you could stop everything and you know he doesn't want that but it was just like when are you going to prepare for what you

can't prepare for yes we couldn't anticipate what was going to happen and so there were times when we were trying to to schedule the wedding around when my dad might be able to be there or what we thought of his health situation at the time. And then you get to a point where it's just like you just have to continue and know that he supports us. And I actually think in some ways that my dad was really, my dad loves my wife and is so happy that we met each other. And I think that he, the fact that we were getting married was always more important.

to him than the like obviously he would have loved to be there but the event itself to him I think was probably even more important than his his involvement with it I also think you know the way I look at it is he did see you and he knows that his son was married to this woman who he loved and he knows how happy you are and how he knows how proud of you he is and it's hard because I know how what a close relationship you have and you know it's weird because my father and I are finally there's sort of an understanding you know he knows I went to this facility you know and I just said hey I'm going to this place and you know there's been a certain turning over a new leaf with my father where he's just you know he's been saying things that are

more wow I'm talking to someone who's a human being I'm talking to a you know I'm feeling you know empathy I'm getting empathy I'm getting more of an understanding than I ever did as a child and you know I went through a lot to realize that hey they did the best they could and um you know I forgive my parents and I love them and I it's just nice to think that you know we're in a different place because I always I'd say I envy you and you know especially over the years you and Jimmy and the rest of your family and a lot of my friends families I always sort of envied I was always the you know they were I always had surrogate parents in a way I felt like oh you know your dad text me and he's like rosy and i just like gosh you know and i want that i want that and i feel sad

i can tell you that i feel like my father and i have an understanding of one another i was always of all my siblings the one who was kind of the least invested in approval and in needing my mom and dad to like approve of the life that i was living or think that i was doing the right things. That was never super important to me. I was always like, I'm going to do my own thing and I just sort of know that. But I also know that my dad really respects that about me. And to me, there was something really important in not searching for anything specific from my dad that gave me the most amount possible that I could actually get from him. Is that a weird thing to say? Like I only just wanted him to kind of understand me.

And he's done that. And I think I understand him better. I think you're articulating it better than I am because that's what I'm trying to say is like I'm the opposite. I'm like in a way, you know, I've been trying like, you know, success and this and that like to make him sort of understand me, to love me to, you know, I've heard it from a lot of people. And so what you're saying is sort of the opposite where you don't need that you know. that and I think that's ultimately what I was trying to say and what you're trying to say is that there's something really cool about knowing that you both get each other and you both love each other and you appreciate each other and respect each other and I think that's what I'm you know striving to hopefully get to a place and I certainly look at effort in a different way now I think that effort is you know when someone says you know my dad said something to me while we were driving up to the mountains like two weeks ago he's just said it's after I talked about a little bit about you know what I went through but I didn't get too deep with my dad I don't you know I just still very there's a wall there and he said you know I'll never forget I was working for this company and he was so stressed out

and he just was like you know he was so depressed and he's just like I thought you know being dead would probably be better and it was the first time like he just opened up a little to me like he was like and he was staring at the road as he's driving and I go I get it dad I get it and there was that just that moment where I felt like this is kind of like cool this is like a just this there's a connection for just a moment and so it's cool yeah once you kind of put yourself in the mindset of like yeah there are things I need from this person but not really yeah there's nothing I really actually need other than to be able to sit and experience the pleasure of their company and try and and the effort to try to understand one another

is the understanding well uh where can we find you on the after such an intense conversation look yeah listen i i i want to say uh thank you for coming and this is you know you're so open and you know i was like you know should i talk to him about the the garden thing should i talk to him about you know i know your dad's sick but you you you were pretty forthcoming and and it just it made for just really good understanding conversation and just like a respect and i think that you being open and not you know you tell you about you know you had to sell your house and you were down and out i mean i think that's what people sort of like it makes you just more human it makes you like relatable you know and i think when people listen whether you're

an actor or not it's like people hit certain places and they're embarrassed by things that happen along the way failures and as we all know failures make you stronger they just do yeah they just do if you unless you let them 100% and i meant it when i said to you what that's what i like about this podcast is that i i think that i've heard a lot of people come in here and they they sort of lose the artifice of whatever it is that they're you know i've heard people talk about real shit and so like it's more interesting that way anyway right i agree uh sean gun i get you got guardians three you're going to end up doing that again yeah i get yeah and uh i got something pretty cool i'm doing soon that i can't talk about but it's uh but i got something pretty cool

but i'm unemployed after that so if you're looking for uh you know if you if you need up somebody to pretend to be a raccoon um you know no i uh and uh and uh i uh i uh i i i I'm, let's see, I'm Sean Gun on Twitter, although I don't use it very often, and I'm The Judge Gun on Instagram, which I love. Yeah, you use that a lot. And we go to conventions together. I know I see conventions, yeah. Yeah, it's nice. Look, this has been a real treat.

Let's go take a couple pictures and get you out of here. Sounds good. All right, buddy. Thanks. Football season is here. Oh, man. Believe has the podcast to enhance your football experience. From the pros.

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