Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - SOPHIA BUSH: One Tree Hill Manipulation & Immature Love

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

Sophia Bush (One Tree Hill, Incredibles 2) joins me this week for a terrific conversation concerning the systematic idea of love and relationships. Sophia comments on the controversy surrounding the creator of One Tree Hill and how it truly delayed a wonderful and healthy relationship between her and her cast mates. We also discuss how Sophia’s relationship with her parents furthered her maturity levels early on in her life, her superior dog training skills, and the idea of love before prefrontal cortex development. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. I hope you guys had a glorious week or you're having a good week. Thanks for listening and tuning into the podcast. Ryan, always good to see you.

Good to see you as well. Right before we get on the air, we're talking about pounding alcohol and I'm not a pounder and nor are you. No, I'm not a pounder, but I guess I'm a marathoner. You like to drink for long periods of time at night. Like you start early and you're the one who drinks until two in the morning. Yeah. Yeah, I can do that. I can do that.

I drink probably about 8 o'clock at night. and buy three drinks by about nine I want everybody the fuck out of my house by nine by nine well 10 maybe because I just feel guilty or feel like an old man my friends call me grams well by then the after party started so that's okay yeah let them go after party I just never had it in me I mean maybe in college I stuck around and like you know you see what happens but what's the point of staying up so late finding somebody else drunk to hook up with I think so that's why you do yeah yeah I don't I don't know if that's such a good idea hey thanks for listening um you know Ryan why don't tell them the handles if you guys want to if you if you're here for sophia bush it's a we're

going to get right into it but um we really do appreciate if you if you if you enjoy the interview hopefully you're going to stick around and here are the handles uh at inside of you pod on twitter at inside of you podcast on instagram and facebook that is correct and uh you can subscribe you can watch it on youtube which is always great um ryan is an amazing editor the shows look fantastic and uh you could also listen to it to it wherever stitcher apple all that stuff we really appreciate that And thanks for all the kind words. I had COVID and I'm over it now and tested negative and feeling a little bit back to myself, but I don't have any taste or smell.

It's the real deal. It sucks. You've never had any taste. Real dick move, Ryan. Real dick move. Post-COVID and I got to hear that. It was right there. It was right there.

It was right there for the taking. Well, first of all, make sure you join Patreon. If you want to support the podcast, which we love your support. And it really helps the podcast. go to patreon.com slash inside of you. And there's a bunch of perks of joining and becoming part of the big family of Patreon. Patreon. patreon.com slash inside of you. And also, if you want any merch, Lex Luthor stuff, small little stuff, inside of you stuff.

Go to the inside of you online store. Somehow my dog Blanche is in here, even though Ryan thought he locked her out. Hi, Blanche. Well, she's having a seat. All right, that's fine. You could hear her jingle. She's good. Let's get into this guest.

You know, this is a fun guest. I really enjoyed having Sophia Bush here. in the studio we were both vaxed and then i felt bad because then i tested positive and i had to call her and say oh fuck but she's good to go and um it was kind of uh you know you just got to be transparent say shit i don't know what to tell you i just found this out i got a text and uh fuck but uh you know you know her from one tree hill but she's been in a ton of stuff um false positive is a movie on netflix which is really dark and she was a great guest she's so articulate um i I was intimidated by Orion.

Yeah. Yeah, I just thought, oh, you know, she's a beautiful woman and she's very intelligent and she's perfect for not me because I think she's probably too smart for me. But she's too smart, no, you are a smart person. Well, I just felt a little like, you know, she's got so much going on that I would probably bore her, even though I find myself to be somewhat amusing. Not that I'm even, all I'm saying is that when I was interviewing her, like, wow, this is a, this is a real woman here.

This is a, I really, I just really liked her. She's amazing. It's an amazing interview. I think I got on her nerves once, but I think that's par for the course. But it was a great interview. So why don't we step right into it? Let's get inside of Sophia Bush. It's my point of you. You're listening to inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of you with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience. So you come over, you immediately play with my dog, Blanche. And within five seconds, she knocks over your entire full cup of ice coffee all over the living room. And then you proceed to help me clean it up.

Obviously, I brought it over. Then you train my dog. I just needed to, you know, be her camp counselor for a minute. calm her down like bring her energy down make her feel safe post coffee disaster can you do that with humans too uh i've been told yes i i have that vibe i i'm one of the people who always winds up hearing everyone's deepest darkest secrets and problems people believe they can confide in you is that what you're saying yeah why is that is that you do have a certain voice doesn't she have a voice ryan you put the mic up god's sakes yes then we can't hear your voice right she

has this soothing voice. Do you do a lot of voiceover work? Interestingly, not as much as you would think. Really? Because it's very unique. I could see you playing even a teenager of like, like, kind of like a Parker, what's the show? Not Parker Lewis Cantley. Pinky Brewster. Punky Brewster? Punky Brewster. You could do a punky Brewster. Punky Brewster, big mouth, any of the fun stuff. Well, you did Incredibles too. I did. Well, how much So the best. I mean, just the best. I also, and you'll know the feeling. I was at a lunch with friends. You know, this was pre-pandemic when we still ate inside. And I was at a lunch with friends in Venice. And my agent called and was like, what is the matter with you? Why have you not responded to me today? And I was like, what are you talking about? First of all, I don't look at email. So what do you need to look at? No, I hate it. I think email is archaic and torturous. And I can't believe. no one has developed a better user interface, but that's a separate conversation. And so I opened the email, and it's just a PDF.

And so I opened the PDF. And it's a letter on Incredibles letterhead from Brad Bird asking me to play Void. And I screamed at a pitch that I didn't know my voice could make. I thought I lost that at like eight, that level of high. You just let it go. It just happened. And the whole restaurant turned and I just, well, I'm so sorry. It's really good news.

Did everybody laugh or they were just kind of no some people were laughing and like a couple people when I left were like what was what happened what's the news but that's exciting though Incredibles too you played void yeah like I've done a lot of voice ever work and did you find it nerve-wracking were you acting with other actors were you shooting by yourself or what did you do how'd you do it um I didn't find it nerve-racking what I what was really interesting and how fun as an adult to be really surprised, right? What was really interesting to me was figuring out how to create a sound to go along with something that doesn't exist. Oh, yeah, because they hadn't showed you, did they show you any examples or like little drawings? My animation wasn't

done yet. I had drawings, but, you know, I was in the booth with Brad, which is the most incredible thing. I was like, please do Edna. Okay, please do another voice. Okay, okay, okay, do this one now. And he was like we're here to record you ma'am um but it was really fun to get to play with a writer-director of that caliber and and also to feel free enough in the room when he'd say okay you're going to jump uh you know from the stoop to the sidewalk off of let's say six stairs you got to land we need the sound of you landing okay fine okay but what happens when you jump off a hundred story building and land i have no idea what that sounds like right so we had to just come up with things and it was fun in moments.

What's the sound effect for jumping off of the stoop? Just the small version. I mean, how would you land? I'm going to ask you. Yeah. You know, a little breath. Because you get the wind slightly knocked out of you. Ryan, try it.

Oh, you just cough. It sounded like a cough. That didn't sound good. When was your last negative PCR? Mine was yesterday. Great. Same. I tested negative yesterday because I was feeling low energy because I was just tired.

So I was like, I got it. I must have it. I had to do a show. shoot this morning. So I tested Tuesday and yesterday. Really? Which actually gave me a lot of peace of mind given the, you know, current. What did you shoot? I had to do a shoot for a lure. Oh, that's a fancy magazine. A lure has never called me. They're very fancy. But it's female, right? I mean, I think largely. You're also, um, Maxim's top 100 back in the day. Not that Fargo, Fargo. Fargo. Fargo. Fargo. Great show. Great movie. How good is Kirsten Dunst on Fargo? I only saw season one.

She's so good. I would have seen her. Did I? Yeah. No. Take this part out of the podcast. Yes. No, I won't take it out.

I only saw season one of Fargo. Kirsten Dunst is in it? Yes. Wait a minute. Then I just didn't recognize her. You also might have thought you saw season one and you didn't. Which one was season one? It was with the guy, the really quirky guy.

Season one was with Colin Hanks. Yes. Yeah. So, oh, does she start in season two? I'm right on this one. Season two's... I was so sure. Maybe we should edit it now.

All right. You know what? We don't need to talk about Fargo anymore. It's just a great show is the point. It is a great. So I was talking about the top 100 maximum. As you could see up there back in the day, I was 100 top 50 most eligible bachelors. I don't know how they determine that.

And why is my picture drinking a glass of milk? I don't know. Do you see it? I don't know either. It's just really weird. I don't get it. I like a photo in a diner, though. I really do.

Yes. But do you hate doing shoots like that, being pretty and glamorous and stuff like that? Or do you ever feel real comfortable? You just go with it. You just, it's part of the job. I mean, I always feel awkward.

With life in general. Yeah. And like getting my picture taken, everyone assumes you're good at that if you are an entertainer. But I immediately, I'm like, but what is my body? Where do my arms go?

Like, I've never gotten relaxed about that. And, you know, there are times in your life where people, pressure you to to do things that you may not have wanted to do um like a shoot or whatever totally so I would always much rather do the cool editorial thing you know strange fashion stuff that feels more like a character um I mean your diner photo like oh man if there were a place that I could do

a shoot I think I'd want to shoot in Russ and daughters in New York what's that oh like the best deli around. So you'd like to shoot in a deli, something charactery, something cool. I'd be so happy. So doing something. And I could get snacks on the way home. That's true. I'd get a pastrami to go. It would be great. So, but doing something like a lure you're saying is a little bit more. It's, it's, it's, what's the word I'm thinking? It's everybody's tense. It's like got to be great. It's got to be, we've got to capture beauty and just elegance. I didn't feel tense this morning. I just kept laughing. I kept interrupting myself and being like, what am I doing? I don't know what I'm doing. Is this any of this good? Is this what you're asking for? I have no idea. And I think what's

nice at least about this sort of moment in my life is that I'm less nervous to admit I have no fucking idea what's going on. Like when I've showed up on my first, you know, full time set at 21, I was like, oh my God, okay. That was one tree hill. Yeah. At 21. 21. I knew it was young. I knew you had to be up. And I was like, I don't know what I'm doing. I just kind of like learned what a mark was recently. And I'm just going to pretend like I know what they're talking about and I'll learn. And you do. You learn quickly. But I think for me reflecting and being able to reflect with, you know, my co-stars about that, you get sort of adultified in ways you don't realize when you're young. And looking back, I wish we'd had more of a, you know, a young cast person

mentor in the production department situation. But we didn't help you out, because you're saying is that there's sort of like an allure. No, but there's sort of this idea that you have to, people need to see you as confident. Yeah. They need to see you as you know what you're doing. and well or if you if you don't know what you're doing are you unprofessional are you wasting people's time do you deserve to be here those are all the fears we carry which are bogus but that doesn't mean we don't worry about them i can't imagine getting fame at 21 being a lead on a show you're one of the leads and i i i don't think i you know it happened really until i was 27 or 26 but i'm very immature i think i've always been incredibly immature and you seem like you are very mature like

with your activism and all these things, you're beyond your years. I really believe that. Don't you think so? That's really nice. I mean, I, yeah, I've always kind of been a little old person, like even as a little kid. I was... Where does that stem from? I don't know, but I remember, I saw this video of myself on a camping trip with my dad and my grandpa, and I was talking to the two of them, and I sound like Jack Lemon and grumpy old men. And I'm like, well, you know what would be a hoot? And I'm like, what seven-year-old said that? Like, I have no idea where I... got it. What was happening? Yeah, I kind of feel like I've always been a grown-up. But I feel the old soul energy, if that's the right term, more for us, for humanity, for a collective, the activism,

the work on behalf of a community has always made sense to me. And then I think the, you know, pervasive anxiety about not knowing the answer or perhaps desire to be as professional as possible all stems from a very young, you know, well of self-doubt and fear. And that's kind of an interesting dichotomy. When people say to me, you seem confident, I'm confident for us. I'm not very confident as an individual, but I just choose to kind of like not pay attention to that part and do the rest. Well, your parents always about doing the right thing. Did they instill that in you at a very young age? Were they always, were they not maybe activists, but always

talking about the right things? Or do they have beliefs that you don't kind of share? You know, it's interesting. I think the thing I respect so much about my parents is that they, even in their 70s, are very willing to inquire where their beliefs come from. I've watched my dad get, so progressive. And recently we were talking about it and I was complimenting, you know, things he sends me and just saying, you know, how much I love seeing a man of, you know, his age seeming to learn all these things. And my dad looked at me and was like, oh, do you not know? We were out protesting Vietnam. Do you not know? And I learned all these things about my parents before I was born that I'm like oh they never shared that with you and maybe they did but I you know what does

a kid remember I don't know right maybe maybe they shared some of that stuff with me when I was just young enough that it didn't entrench itself in my memory um but you know really just really cool to hear them talk about their upbringings and there were things I knew you know I knew about my dad's story immigrating to America and how long it took him to, you know, get his green card and become a citizen. And I understand how tough that is for people. How long did it take him? Well, my dad came in the 60s and he didn't become a citizen until I was 12 and I was born in 82, so that would have been 94. Wow. So it takes a long time. Isn't that crazy? And, you know, my mom, my mom's mom came to America on a boat through Ellis Island. My mom grew up in a house

project in the Bronx. And, you know, she was exposed to so many of the things that I've leaned into in my activism in terms of communities that are disenfranchised. And it's really interesting now, you know, I'll tell her about something. And she's like, yeah, I know. And then she talks about something from her childhood. And I'm going, wow, this is a wild sort of full circle experience. Yeah. Were they always supportive? Like when you went off to college. I read this thing. I'm sure you've talked about it, but where you loved volleyball, you're playing volleyball and this school makes you audition for a play or you have to be in a play. We had arts requirements in middle school. Arts requirements in middle school. I went to this is middle school we're talking

about. Middle school. I went to the most phenomenal middle school in high school. And there were four semesters of arts requirements in seventh and eighth grade. And I was like, I don't do play. My friend does play. So you were upset at first. Yeah. I was kind of like, I don't care about it. I'm going to go to medical school.

I'm going to be a heart surgeon. Really? You want to be a heart surgeon. That was my plan. And so I thought, you know, being like a smart, goofy kid, I was like, well, if I do my play second semester of eighth grade, that's spring season, that's volleyball, you know, so I won't have to do it because I'm going to play volleyball. And the school was like, you chose this.

This is your choice. You had the freedom to do your play last semester and do ceramics this semester, and you didn't. So you're doing a play. And I remember just thinking it was so stupid. The play? Just the whole concept of it. What play was it? It was Our Town.

Our Town, yeah, sure, a very famous one that every high school, college, everyone does it. And it's so good. Yeah. And what was really interesting to me was that I realized in real time. that we were bringing a book to life, essentially. And it just changed my whole view of everything. And I realized, you know, the reason that I can't ever give a book to anyone because they're underlined and doggiered and noted in the margins.

And I love reading and learning. And here was a book come to life. And I leaned into theater really hard all through high school and just loved it so much and got so nerdy. Like, in the ways that I was such a little kid and sort of sheltered for a long time, I was also such an old man. I started doing research about, you know, the traditions of human story pre the written word and was like, plays are sacred.

I was in high school and just so. You're doing this in high school. I'm practically failing out while she's looking up this. And I was like, this is how humanity came to be before we could write things down. we would do plays for each other. And this is why we know things. I really get fired up about nerdy stuff. But wait a minute.

So the play, did you have a big part in the play? No. Small part. Yeah. And through high school, I did leads in plays. I teched plays. I was a prop master on many plays. I played supporting roles in plays.

I mean, it was, yeah. I was like behind the scenes. I was doing lighting. Oh, I love it. I love that. I'm the prop master. I'm the property's master. master of all props.

We don't, we don't use that word anymore. I assume now we say properties manager, but at the time, that's true. That's what we said. And,

oh man, I just loved it. You fell in love with it. Yeah. And he said, I don't want to be a heart surgeon anymore. I want to be an actor.

Yeah, so imagine going to my immigrant father and my daughter of an immigrant mother and saying, so mom and dad, I don't think I'm going to go to

medical school. I'm going to go to the theater. They were just pissed. Horrified. Did they see you in a play? Did they see you in plays at this point? So they were like, she's good?

Yeah. But my mom was just like, that's not a real stable life. You can't do that. What are you doing? And it is crazy what we do. But my parents, my dad prior to retiring a couple of years ago was a advertising photographer. And, you know, he is a creative. And they told me years later that they had this conversation.

conversation after I had this talk with them about going to, you know, get a BFA instead of a medical degree. And my mom was like, this is all your fault. You turned your hobby into your career. And now she thinks she can do it too. You know, she was just so nervous for me. Because your dad's a photographer. Photographer of what? He did, you know, advertising celebrity beauty campaigns. Like, yeah. Did he ever shoot you? He did. Yeah. I had somebody do my headshots for free for you know 20 years which was and then were they good glorious yeah i mean my dad was like doing campaigns for nutrigena and has been published in vogue he's wildly talented that's exciting and just so nice he's a nice guy yeah my dad's really nice there's a lot of people in that world

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opposite have you gone to the i'm sure you have gone the opposite for you know a few times i look i'm not attracted to assholes right but i do think that that where, again, a lot of my wisdom for us, you know, for a community exists. Yes. I think in the same way that I've lacked some confidence on the individual side. I've lacked a bit of discernment or perhaps having a like a bullshit meter in my personal life. So I've dated some people who I thought were really nice, who were not. What is that though?

But that's a lesson you got to learn. It's a lesson. But don't you think there is. sort of this feeling you have when you're on set and you meet someone and there's an attraction to his, his or her, uh, talent. Are you attracted to talent or you are more attracted to? I don't know about if I would put it that way. I'm attracted to, uh, you know, creativity, to ambition, to intellect, to service. Um, I also think, and I'd be curious about your experiences there. I think there's like a very, it's funny, because you realize that

everybody you've ever met in this business has, like, dated everybody else. And, you know, when you spend a hundred hours a week on set and you literally, you don't even get home for eight hours to sleep, like, yeah, I'm not surprised that every 20 year old on a set has dated every other 20 year old on a set. Right. Who care? I don't, you know. This is your family. This is your life. You don't know much. But it's like, I don't know. We act like it's not common and it's wildly common. And, you know, some of our favorite, like, quote unquote celebrity couples are like people. who married the fourth co-star, are they dated? Like, I don't know.

I don't particularly care about anybody's personal life so long as it's not, like, disruptive to work. But I do think there's just a thing that happens to a lot of people whereby, as you get older and you get more stability outside of work, that, you know, just your perspective changes. I mean, how does it work for you? The more I'm just immersed in work, the more I'm just hyper-focused, the less happy I am. And I'm learning that as I get older and older. Like, you can't be thinking about this all the time.

You have to disconnect. You have to take a trip. You have to explore. You have to educate yourself, whatever it is. Because, I mean, for many years, I think I was just so, you know, I'm on said. This is who I am. This is this is my world, but it's a different scenario. And I've talked about on the podcast before because I, for me, it was somebody who didn't

have confidence, didn't have the, uh, I did some, I did a play somewhat that I was good. Somebody said, you're really good. You're really funny. And all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I'm funny. This person thinks I'm funny. I need to just be on stage all the time. So I was about finding myself. I think my journey really just trying to find out who I really am.

Yeah. Because I didn't know who I was. And I, well, I think that that, especially when you are working young, what a, what an easy pit to fall into because you're figuring out who the people you play are and you're supposed to figure out who you are. And your experiences are conveyed on screen. But if you don't have a lot of experiences because you're young. Then you're looking for them. And yeah, it's a conundrum indeed. And I think, you know, when you mix all of that reality and which.

the fact that you're performing, if you're on a show, like, you know, the ones we used to be on, you're working 16 or 17 hours a day. Yeah. Your whole life revolves around the people you're around. I know. And so it's like, I get it. You know, I've been that young person and I give advice to a lot of young people in the same positions.

And the thing I always try to say is, I understand why you're trying to build a home where you are. You know, I think especially for me and many of my friends who were in similar positions to me when we talk about it now, you realize when you pick up and you move away from home and you literally, you don't see anyone except the people you work with for 10 months a year. I'm like, I get it. You want to build a home. You want to feel like it was worth it to leave everyone you love and to be away from your family and your parents and to miss weddings and birthdays and, you know, people having babies. And I get it. You really want to build and cultivate. a real, you know, work family and sense of home. I get it. I'm also just very deeply committed

to my real home at this stage in my life. I mean, it have to be so difficult for you to be 21 years old and as a lead on a show getting started. And it's just, it's over, probably overwhelming. Right? Oh, yeah. In a lot of ways. Yeah. And for me, especially going to do that kind of show, you know, going back to high school after only three years in college and doing a version of high school that I'd only heard about. I went to an all-girls school. I didn't have one iota of experience with boys being in class, with bad guys who'd lie to you, with dramatic, you know, girls fighting over boys in school. I didn't have any of that. But you just learned to act. True it. Well, you have to. That's your job. But it, you know, God, what a, I mean, what a crazy,

what a crazy ride we went on. It was hilarious. How soon after you started One Tree Hill, did you, well, you had already met Chad Michael Murray, but. Oh, I'm not going to talk about him. Oh, you don't talk about that. No. No, I'm not allowed. No, but you know what it is? I'm not allowed to because I've tried to poke fun at being a dumb kid. Right. That's what I was going to talk about. And whenever I've done that, it gets twisted into I'm talking shit about somebody who I don't even know anymore who's clearly a grown up like right but I'm I think you have to like laugh at who you used to be but when people ask me about um history that involves someone else right I unfortunately like I just well it's not even unfortunate it's just not worth it's not worth my time right it's not a place where I

harbor um you know ill will or and it can't come out right it never does right right and i've tried to like you know do the thing where when i get stuck uh live on the air which has happened to me twice getting asked about it where i like give a little like ha ha like jazz hands quip and move on and it it doesn't it just doesn't work so i'm not going to i i you know i was a very um naive 21-year-old kid, and that's all there is to it. But you did say something that I read about, I knew that I was getting into and I will always believe in love. Something like that.

I probably said that in my 20s when I was just trying to keep everybody happy. Well, I think that you said something where you want, when you got married, you go in and get married because you think you're going to be married once. Oh, Michael, we're not really going to talk about this, are we? I'm just thinking, I think that, though, that's why I'm single. The reason I brought it up, hear me out. Okay. is because I think I've seen so much dysfunction in my family.

You have it, maybe. I think every family has seen a lot of dysfunction. My sister is married five times, mother three times, a lot of different things. So I feel that, fuck, man, I'm not getting married until it's the one. And that might sound naive. But that's why I think I've waited so long. Yeah, I get that. But you know what I think, look, I think lots of people do stupid shit before they're

their prefrontal cortexes are fully formed, and they're not until they're 26. Right. So you do the math on my timeline. I literally didn't have a whole brain. So I have, like, humor and grace for, like, being a kid and, you know, having the experience that I had. But I also think we're at a really interesting time where we're, look, we're looking at systems in general.

And marriage, I learned so much about it reading Elizabeth Gilbert's book committed. And one of the things I thought was so interesting, and I read it years ago, so I won't have the facts perfect for you, which I like to, but here we are. But she essentially talks about how early, there's early evidence of the church trying to ban marriage, because you were not, as, you know, a member of the faithful, supposed to be devoted to anyone but God. And then they realized they couldn't keep people from getting married. People in villages and towns were just doing this thing. So then they said, the only recognized marriage is in the church. So we have to look at what our motivations are, what the politics are. Churches, by the way, are so political.

It's crazy to me. They don't pay taxes. Again, separate conversation. But, you know, it used to be that the person on this farm and the person on this farm would get married so they could join farms and there was a dowry and somebody got like livestock and like really weird patriarchal nonsense. And now we're in this time where as many, if not more women in our country anyway, are the breadwinners of their household. People want to build families. They want to have kids. They want to have these experiences that I think we all deeply romanticize.

And you look at a divorce rate of over 50%. It's really complicated. You know, it's something like, and this was a stat I read a few years ago, so I'd be curious to know if numbers are the same now. but 72% of men cheat on their wives, followed by 41% and growing, 72% of men cheat on their wives. If I remember the stat correctly, and followed by and growing 41% of women who are now cheating on their husbands. I know we're just talking about how to normative relationships, so that's the stat that I read. And that number is growing as more and more women become the economic leaders of their households. And so I think overall, we have to have a much more real conversation.

as a society and within our own romantic relationships and our friendships with, you know, our friends who are likely in romantic relationships of their own. What are our motivations? Like, what are we looking for? I grew up on Disney movies and watching rom-coms and went to an all-girls school. I was the prime, like, right out of the cartoon factory candidate for like a fairy tale ideal of young love. Come on. Like, it wrote itself. But really, now as an adult and for you in this position where you're saying you have your own skittishness and nervousness about really diving in. I imagine that you have trust issues and also feel really nervous truly opening up and being your full self with someone. God, you're good. Thank you.

You're good. So how do we begin to unpack these things for each other and figure out like, what is your motivation? Is your saying, well, I want to make sure it's absolutely the one? Is that actually just an avoidance tactic to prevent being intimate with anybody? God, I knew this would turn around on me. Yeah, it probably is. It's a defense mechanism, I think. I mean, because there's no perfect one out there. They don't exist.

I'm not perfect, and neither are you. Well, you're closer than I am. You're very kind. Perfection. And Ryan here. Ryan's obviously perfect, except for the fact that he doesn't know how to use a microphone. Yeah, exactly. This is accurate.

I don't know, but let me ask you. What is now going from this 21-year-old girl, really girl, to this whatever, how old you are now, woman, how do you feel about it? How do you feel about marriage? How do you feel about, I mean, do you want to get married? Largely, I feel great about it. But again, I think it depends on what people's motivations are. And I want to make sure, whether it's myself or one of my best friends, that we're, clear on what it is we're signing up for rather than thinking we're getting some like,

you know, Kate Hudson and Matt McConaughey rom-com life. You know, this notion that you're going to meet your person and they're going to make you so happy that you're going to be fulfilled and you'll never be nervous again and you'll never ever think anyone else is hot. Like what? It's such an absurd joke. And so what I am a fan of when I'm a believer, in is real partnership, real intimacy that comes with radical honesty and with ground rules of always giving your partner the benefit of the doubt while asking questions, while being able to be vulnerable, admit when you're afraid, admit when you're being triggered by something else. Like, you have to do a lot of work. That sounds, I mean, it sounds, the first thing I thought of was

this needs to be a course in college. Oh, I agree. Or, seriously, they would just really sit down and talk to you about, look, these are the things. And I think earlier, I had a really fascinating conversation with Esther Perel, who was talking about certain countries that begin empathy education in preschool. And every couple of years, there's more curriculum, which is about holding space for each other and what consent means we don't hit our classmates if you want to hug someone ask, those kinds of things for little. kids that steadily evolve into sex ed in, you know, whether it's middle school, high school, I don't know when they do that for kids anymore. Clearly, we're doing a terrible job of it. So that it's, it is about consent. It is about intimacy. It is about sexual safety. And, and, and, and they learn about relationship building from the time that they're, you know, four. Can you

imagine if we'd had 14 years of that? Oh my God. Oh my God. You know, until the age of 18. Oh, I saw, I was surrounded by just dysfunction. And I didn't. So imagine at a young age if you had, because in the developmental years when you're five, seven, whatever it is, if you're not receiving love and all these things that you should be receiving as a young kid, it changes the whole outcome. It really does. And you don't know what that is. And you're, I think that's what a lot of people do go through. I mean, unless you have really great parents and, you know, I don't know, it sounds like you had a great experience with that. I mean, My parents and I have done the work.

We had years that weren't great. How do you do work with your parents? I do a lot of work on my own and bring my work home. How do you do you say, okay, family meeting? Yeah. You do. I started instituting family meetings about five years ago. Does it include maybe the person you're dating now or is it just strictly you and your parents?

Well, no, at that time and for many years, it was really about the three of us and working through some stuff. I needed to talk to them about experiences I had as a kid and my, you know, the vestiges of childhood trauma that I carry from those things. And we, we all needed to get clear on certain matters because the reality is everyone has a memory of an experience. You know, tomorrow, each of the three of us will have a memory from today and they might be different. And so to be able to sit. Mine will be, I don't think Sophia liked me as much as I was. hoping she would. I don't think, no, go ahead. You know, it's, it's really important to ask people what they remember, to share with them what you remember. And it's very hard. It's very hard for me to say

something, this is my experience. And my father or mother, whoever says, oh, get out of here. That's not what happened at all. Yeah. What are you talking about? I wasn't my, this is an experience I have that I've kept with me. Yeah. And now they're just belittling it. Yeah. I would offer that there's a lot of power in letting them do that and just watching it and then saying, okay, so if you want to say to me that that didn't happen, why is this my memory? Why is this my experience? Why have I gone through work on this in therapy? Why do you think I'm bringing it up to you now? You can really disarm someone's desire to avoid their mistakes. And you can also offer the kindness of we've all made mistakes and I'm not bringing this up with you because I blame you

I'm bringing it up with you because I want to heal it between us that gives me anxiety of course it does it's really hard fucking anxiety thinking of having that conversation with um it's really certain people hard but it is I believe something we all deserve and I think can be a real sign of progress and personal growth, when you can just say, like, okay, you all can flail around me and I'm going to stand here, like a concrete post. And when you've tired yourselves out, I'm still going to be holding space to talk about it. It's kind of like, you know, I used to be a camp counselor. It's not far off on how you deal with kids that are throwing temper tantrums. People revert to childish avoidant selves when they think they're going to get criticized.

we all become a five-year-old who thinks we're going to the principal's office. You know, it's just human tendency. And if you can understand the tendency, you can kind of depersonalize the response. And frankly, you also have to have a moment, I think, in your adult self. I did where I finally said, I might not ever get the moment on this issue that I want from my parents. They may not parent me through this example in the way that I want them to. And weirdly, as soon as I accepted that, they became the best version of my parents they've ever been. I've given up, I think.

I think I've given up on that. Really? Yeah, because I feel like they see what they want to see. They hear what they want to hear. They don't want to acknowledge things because I think it hurts them and it embarrasses them. And it's an old school mentality. Maybe that's an excuse. but I just feel like it's not even worth it.

And I've had therapists in the past kind of say, well, you should bring this up. I'm like, you just don't understand. I know. And they're like, you don't think I deal with people all the time. I go, I know you do, but not this one. This is different. My father's different. You know what I mean?

And, you know, my father actually, we have a much better relationship in recent years. That was going to be my next question. Yeah, well, I kind of wrote him a letter. I'm much more articulate, as you could probably tell when I write, I have the time to, yeah. Me too. I don't get, I don't get, um, tripped up. I can be, but sometimes. Unless I bring up Chad Michael Murray.

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This is good. I like this stuff. It's fun. It's like, it's honesty. I like that. Yeah. like it but I do you know I I know it's it's an easy joke um what's an easy joke well just referring to you know I didn't think of it as a joke but I well but it is also really interesting

I do have to say as a as a woman who's done what I've done over the last 20 years to consistently have to do you still have to talk about that everybody wants to ask me about it and I'm like do you want to talk about, like, a dumb thing you did when you were 21, when you were essentially a senior in college? Yeah, believe me. If they did, I'd be, yeah. You know, I do a lot of dumb things. I have this whole other career.

You have a huge career. I just watched False Positive. You did. I love False Positive. It was very dark. My mother told me to watch it because we watch horror movies together. Wow. Yes, she's the owner told me to watch it.

What did your mom think of it? She's like, you should watch this false positive. And after I watched, I go, why the fuck would you tell me to watch that? That's so fucked. It's pretty dark. It is really dark. And your character's dark, too. What a twisted corgan.

Oh, God, I know. But wait, before we get to her, because this is a fun thing, because this is an easy moment for you to flip to a, you know, a joke or to change the subject so you don't have to talk about yourself. That's how I do it. That's what I do. And I'm like, we're not done. You do it too. All right. Fine.

But what, uh, if you feel comfortable sharing, any part of it, what do you think you were able to communicate in that letter that gave you by getting it out of your body and on. to paper that gave you a little bit of freedom to have some space for a different kind of relationship with your dad. I called him out on things that he had said or done his actions, which were unacceptable, I felt. And ultimately in the letter, I said, you've got a really wonderful kid out here in California that you could have so much fun with and spend time with and actually get to know. And you're just shitting on time.

Something along those lines. and it took a while and he didn't respond to me and then I was like fuck man so then I shot him an email a couple months later because we didn't talk I go did you get my email he goes yes all I can say is I love you that was his email such a particular kind of generation isn't it yeah he didn't want to get into it didn't want to he didn't divulge didn't answer things didn't say but I um the thing is I think with him is is a lot of people, you have your own problems and you forget that you're still a father. You forget that you still have to do the right things and you don't have to follow in your

father's footsteps and you don't have to. And I've done everything I can to not do that, to be approachable, to be loving, to be giving to be all these things. Not saying my father is. I'm just saying in general, I want to be all these. Why are you getting me into the talk all this, talking about all this stuff? We're just unpacking stuff. Because you have a podcast too.

I do. Drama queens. Yeah. Well, that's the second podcast. Yeah. Work and progress is my show that I started in 2019 that is, you know, not dissimilar to this. It's sort of, you know, we get into the deep stuff about incredible people, you know, culture leaders and politicians and writers and actors and comedians and authors just everybody out there doing interesting stuff, which is really fun. You know, I've interviewed scientists and. God, I'd be so overwhelmed. I could. I couldn't interview a scientist oh my god i love it i love it all day but you do the research right yeah but research is what i do all day anyway so i finally have been able to put it into something which is really fun and and it was off of doing work in progress that i i don't know i have found

that there is such space for exploration and for healing in conversation with people for learning and all of us girls who worked on one tree hill really have always carried a thorn in our side since and i just went you know what there might be something there one of one of my awesome agents asked me if i'd ever consider you know doing a podcast about it kind of as like a covid project a project about what about the show about one tree hill that's what drama queens is right yeah and I didn't want to do that by myself, but I sort of chewed on it. And then I called Hillary and just said, look, I had something suggested to me. And now it's become this idea in my head.

And if you hate it, you know, because she left first. She had a really gnarly experience with our boss. And I said, if you hate it, I'll never speak of it again. And no one ever has to know that we talked about this. But if you don't hate it, I think we should call joy. She was like, call joy. Really? And then the three of us launched this show.

And it's, it's so. it's so awesome do you guys get into this stuff too yeah you talk about your experiences through totally and and i knew we would and i knew there would be a lot of opportunity like we talk about with this letter to your dad like to leave it on the page to get it out of our bodies um and to to also reminisce on everything that was so good because it was all of the things it was the best of times and the worst of times as they say. And what I wasn't quite prepared for was the ways that we were going to kind of big sister our younger selves and each other. You know, we've been able to talk about all the things that we were too scared to bring up back then. And we've really been able to kind of come to each other's

rescue and defense. And we just laugh a lot. And the coolest part is that we're finally. Finally seeing our show the way our audience saw it. We'd never done that before. As a fan in a way. Yeah, you know, even if we'd catch an episode to live tweet or something, we would have just made it. It was like everything was jumbly. Now we are just seeing the episodes. Right.

And it's wild. And the number of times we'll all get choked up and we're like, oh man, it really hits. It hits. It's a really good show. Really? That's amazing. Yeah, it's really sweet. Well, you talk about all the stuff that you guys went through, and I know you've talked

about it a lot. I mean, and you paint the picture of that, this guy was, the creator of the show was basically a monster. Yeah. I mean, there's no secret to that. No. It's amazing to me how he could be so open. Usually you think that it'd be one or two people that experience it. But how many people experienced this? 18 women on our show signed a collective letter. And that was 18 people willing to be public about their experiences in the cast and on the crew. And 25 women. on the casting crew of his subsequent show signed a letter in response about his behavior. And it was obvious in front of the crew.

Oh, yeah. He was very open. I think the worst of what he did was hidden. But yeah, he was not embarrassed to be handsy to make inappropriate commentary. He just thought he can get away with it. To pull people into side rooms for conversations. To keep...

it's funny when you think about the things that men write, you know, we would have these scenes written for us, you know, being with our intimate partners on the show, scenes written where we'd be in our underwear and whatever. And we found out from a writer that he kept a board of the fitting photos of each girl in underwear up in his office. Pictures of us that were taken by the wardrobe supervisor who was a woman, of us in different versions of underwear and or lingerie that then had to be approved, picked, and, you know, one would wind up in the show, he just would keep a board of all these photos.

And we were like, wow, that's super violating. Did anybody ever say, get help, dude, get fucking help? Yeah, certainly. But when someone's in complete and total control of 250 people's jobs and livelihoods, it's pretty hard to force them to listen. But it was interesting for us, you know, when the show was over, really to hear that it was no secret in the industry either.

And he kept working, as they all do, until, you know. This all came out the movement. And then he was fired off royals or whatever. Did you ever, do you, how do you feel if you ever were face to face with him in a room, just the two of you, to have a conversation? Do you think you could keep your composure? I could do a conversation like this. You could.

But even as you ask me to imagine it, like the sensation of white, hot rage in my chest is not small. Because not only was it the really overt just abuse and manipulation that he, you know, put so many women through, but it was also the more insidious shit. It was telling me that Joy and Hillary were supposedly talking all this shit about me and then telling me. and then telling Joy that me and Hillary were talking shit about her and telling Hillary that me and Joy were talking shit about her. He pitted- He pitted us against each other. And when you're 21 and your 45-year-old married boss

is telling you that people are coming into his office to talk about you, you don't think he's making it up. And so the ferocity that I feel about the time, he stole from us because we clicked fast and we were really, really close and he didn't like it. And it took us a long time to realize that, you know, when he would talk about never letting us be like the friends cast, we always thought like, yeah, LOL, well, like what cast is ever going to get paid that much money an episode? But what we didn't realize was that he never wanted us to be best friends because then we would talk about money and then we would advocate

together. It wouldn't be that kind of money. But we would join forces. And we didn't get that at the time. We were kids. We didn't know anything about the business. This was my first TV show. You know, Hillary had been working on MTV as a VJ. Like, none of us had experience in this arena. So we didn't, we didn't know that we should have questioned him the most. We listened to him and we questioned each other. And I find that really unforgivable. So you confided in him. You really trusted him. a while. Yeah, I think there were periods of time where we all did. And especially in the earlier years, when he wasn't like as overtly disgusting, he'd be inappropriate and then he'd like

laugh. He'd say, oh, I don't know anything. I was a dork in high school. None of the girls liked me. Like, he'd always make these kinds of excuses. It takes a long time to realize that that's just an M.O. But that's not genuine. And in learning about as the years went on and he felt more and more powerful, how much more violent and inappropriate he got with women makes it very clear that it was always, you know, it was always rooted in the same desire to kind of control and conquer. Right. But I just, yeah, I find it really unforgivable. We could have had a, we could have had the most exquisite familial experience and we didn't get to. But we get it now. Yeah. And it's really nice. We have it now. We like FaceTime and cook together and we get on

Zoom once a week and we do this show. God, that's so ironic. I mean, it's. Yeah. You get it now. Yeah, but you still get to have that at least. That's a beautiful thing. And you know, we always had moments. and then we'd all kind of get a little nervous. You'd fall back into your closeness and then you'd go, oh, God, am I vulnerable now? What does it mean? So it was like this ebb and flow for the nine years we did our show

and now it's just flow all the time. And the difference between those two things is not small and it's delicious. And I love that this belongs to us. The three of us share it equally. We're executive producers. It is our show as a unit of women and we are literally healing old wounds.

And, you know, if it irks him that we have the power, I'm thrilled. Well said. I'm thrilled. Well said. This is called shit talking. Oh. As if I didn't just talk a little bit of shit just now. That was shit talking.

This is just from my lovable patrons. Oh, I love it. And they get to ask questions. Okay. I mean, this is kind of a question that's been asked. Sophie M. Can you tell me whose idea it was to start the drama queen's podcast? It was, you know, someone came to you and then you came to the others, right? Yeah, I was having a conversation about an imprint of podcasts I wanted to build out.

And I have this amazing agent who's like, you know, full Gen Z who was just like, okay, but what if you did this? And she really sparked the idea for me. And my initial reaction was absolutely. not. And then I sat with it. And then I was like, I don't want to do it by myself. I got to call, I got to call the girl. So I was like, I got to call Hillary first. And then she was like called Joy. And the best part is we called Joy. And Joe goes, absolutely not. And I was like, just wait, way, way, way. Because here's my idea. You know, I think we were all so like, shuddery about it.

And I just, you know, Hillary and I talked to her about the conversation we'd had, you know, when I, when I pitched it to her and just said, look, we can take it back. And we can take it back. we can reclaim all of it together and then she was like wait a second this is cool and uh and it's interesting the way that the three of us can as a unit advocate for each other and when one person gets understandably nervous about something we can come together and talk about it and solve for it and and yeah so it's it's been it's been great nancy d what is what's the one role that you would drop everything to play or one director you drop everything to work with. Oh, um, I would drop everything to work with Tyca, with Ryan Coogler, um, with Zoe Lister Jones.

Oof. I, I would, I just want to play a superhero, guys. You do, huh? Yeah. Yeah, like, I'm scrappy and I'm a good. stunt driver. And I'm very proficient with weapons. And I'd like to do some wirework. I've seen Black Widow twice. I think it is so good. Oh, it is so. Oh, it is so good? It's so good. And I'm just like, I want to do this. You should do it. I think you will. We'll see, I guess. Yeah. Kelly asks, is there an actress that you were inspired by while growing up? Mm. In high school. Say Merrill Street.

Well, I mean, look. Of course. Obviously. Me. Merrill is like, duh, everyone. But I'm trying to think, you know, in high school, I think I became like a full diehard Kate Blanchett, Stan. Wow. You know, I just think she's so unbelievably talented. And, you know, obviously, Merrill and Kate have been women who I just love to watch. And, God, Viola Davis, I mean, she just came in so hot and is so. exquisite and I mean there's so many women who I who I learn from watching but man I think in

terms of people who can just make me feel like they've ripped my heart out of my chest those three really are top tier those are good ones uh Steph A just said learned a lot from your work in progress podcast thank you for using your voice for good you're a real inspiration thanks step little Lisa says you have any funny behind the scene stories from John Tucker must die Oh, my God. We had so much fun on that movie. Oh, man. I have a lot of stories I can't tell any of you, but... Really? Yeah. We just had a ball. We had an absolute ball. But what was really fun while we were working up there, my sweet angel, Britney Snow, wound up adopting this cute little dog. And so suddenly we had a set dog, which was heavenly because... I was really missing my dogs that summer.

So it was really nice. We got a little mascot. That's a little behind the scenes for you. The last question is, will you train Michael's dog? I mean, I can give you some tips. Because you really are good. You're very,

there's something about you that's just very, I mean, right when you walked in, you just, my dog kind of jumped on you and you're, you're patient. You seem like you're just, you're,

your whole disposition, your whole, you just seem relaxed. I don't know what it is. I wish I had more of that. You just seem relaxed. Are you relaxed? No. Okay. So I was wrong. I'm completely wrong. I am very type A. I'm high stress and probably a bit high strung. But the place where I get really grounded and still is in good conversation. So I feel that I was going to say thank you. I'm kidding. I was going to say so I feel very relaxed now. Thank you.

This guy, interrupting. Let me get to the point. I know. I do that sometimes. I'm sorry. But I think that it's also part of the reason that I love hosting the shows so much is because I do.

I feel really... like grounded when when we do this yeah i like her ryan i think she's she's a good she's an inspiration you are you're a good woman you're a good human being thanks yeah there's something just i feel comfortable when i'm talking to you i think the audience will say the same thing there's just you speak your mind you're very confident but you're also realistic and you're honest and sweet thank you'll throw sweet in there thanks but uh this has been a great time i really enjoyed this Did you have a good time? I did.

Thank you. It was. It was. I really like talking to you. I'm glad you finally came in here and maybe one little trick for Blanche before we leave. Yeah. She was sitting for you. I know.

She was staying for her. She doesn't stay for anyone. You got to make yourself clear. That's the thing that I think is really helpful is if you can start working on them to sit. Do you do any hand motions with her? I do a snap. I go sit down. Interesting.

Sit down. I enunciate down. Down. Allure. Allure. That's good. Good throwback. Thank you.

Thank you. Callback. This is why I love talk shows. Yeah. Oh, my God. Do you want to know the most embarrassing thing that I have ever done? Yeah, for sure. And his wife and I laugh about it.

Thank God. She's my friend. So the first week that Seth Myers was ever on late night, I went on. I was one of his guests in the first week. I've never, I've like never been. never been more flattered by anything. I just love him. I think he's amazing. And I was working in Chicago and having like an extra miserable time at work. And, uh, which is no secret to anybody, which is why I think I've busted my ass in the last couple of years to make such good

projects with such wonderful people like false positive, working with Alana. Working with women and really good dudes and, and gearing up to go shoot good Sam, my new show, which is all, you know, helmed by incredible women and the men who've come in are phenomenal and um because you know i went from a show where every time our boss was in town it sucked to working on a show that like sucked most of the time for me as a woman shocker quit right before me too hit the news that was fun um but i was working there and reading i was reading amy puller's book one weekend my best friend had come in to visit me and we've gone to the rooftop of the soho house in chicago we were like laying by the pool. It was summertime. And we were having rosé. And like, I don't, I'm sensitive to

things, guys. I'd probably had two glasses of rosé. Everyone else was tipsy. I was hammered. And I'm reading Amy Poller's book, just crying, laughing at how sweet it is. And then I get to the chapter that Seth Myers wrote about being her friend and looking up to her and what it was like to be supported by her and how it made him feel like he could do anything. And I'd been texting with Seth and with his wife Alexi, just about like charity stuff in New York. And I, in my semi-drunken stupor, sent Seth Meyer as a text message saying, hey, I'm reading Amy's book and laughing, crying, and now I've read your chapter and I'm crying. And I just want you to know that like even in the boosts that you give to people who come on your show like me, when you tell them they're great and you love

their work you make us feel like Amy made you feel and I sent it I sent it guys that's nice though I was like oh no well what's wrong with that and then there was like a bubble and then it went away and then there was a bubble and I was like oh fuck and the next day I looked at my phone and I was like so sorry about the daytime Rose yesterday and then I was chatting with his wife we do a lot of advocacy for women together and I was like so I did this really embarrassing thing reading any Poller's book. And I drunk texted Seth about how he's like a leader for people and a great ally to women. And she was like, oh, God, he doesn't know how to feel feelings like that. And we were just like dying laughing. I could just see his face trying to text you back.

Like I really appreciate. I don't know what the fuck to say. Because this is what happens. I do conversations like this. I'm not really the person people come to for a quippy one liner. And when you're one of the world's greatest comedians like comedy is what you do. And so next time I saw him, I was just like, hey, dude, next time I'll send you a joke. Well, you know, that's fine. That's cool. I'm sure he appreciated it. And see that, if we were, in fact, doing late night, which is what the callback was all about, would be a great late night story.

Yeah, I like that. And I think it was sweet. I don't know. I wouldn't feel uncomfortable. Like, oh, my God. Thank you so much. She's drunk. That's so cool.

Yeah, that's what I do. I'm such a good time. I get drunk and read books. Yeah. That's the cool. girl. That's the girl right there. This is why I like to interview science people. Yes. Yeah. Good for you. Well, so two podcasts, work in progress, drama queens. Yeah. Listen to them both. I mean, she's really enjoyable to listen to. And what other projects you have going on? Oh gosh. Well, false positive just came out.

False positive on Netflix. So creepy. I'm so sorry. It's really watching. You know how I love horror movies. It's creepy. You're going to dig it. Pierce Brosnan. Can you believe how scary he is? He's so, he's so, he's He's just, it's just bizarre. He's so fabulous. He's bizarre. He's terrifying. He's terrifying. He's just so nice.

So without giving away the end, that story has happened multiple times. Okay, I can't even. Uh-huh. That's where the whole thing comes from. We were going to end the movie. Oh, my God. We were going to end the movie with pictures of all the doctors who've been caught. Oh, we don't say anything.

With pictures of all those kinds of doctors. And we were told we weren't allowed to for legal reasons. but yeah it's fucked and now you really want to listen to it and she's really good you play a really cool character that you're it's there's a nice twist to it and uh i'm so glad i watched that thanks yeah yeah she's she's a she's a strange kind of villain i didn't watch it because you were coming on the podcast i'd watched it randomly and you were in it like oh she's in this oh cool oh i love that we'll tell your mom i said thanks i will so yeah that just came out it's streaming on hulu and then good sam uh here's another callback for you the irony good sam

the show on which I play a heart surgeon is coming out on CBS in January. Really? Yeah. We came full circle again. Heart surgeon. Your dad will be proud. You're a fake heart surgeon. Yeah.

I love it. I've been shadowing surgeons and actually observing in the OR. And open heart surgery is the coolest thing I've ever seen in my life. Oh, my God. Change my life. It's the coolest experience I have ever had. Well, maybe you'll quit everything and be a heart surgeon. It's not too late.

You're still young. Could you imagine? I could actually. Can you imagine that? I think you could do whatever you want to do. Well, I appreciate that. If you had a choice right now to be the top heart surgeon or a top superhero, what would be?

Can I be the superhero now and, like, go to med school in 10 years? Can I do both? Sure, you could do that, but you might get tired at 40. I don't even know how to your work. I don't know. I don't feel like I'd get tired of learning. I'm tired right now talking about it. You're tired of thinking about being a superhero or being a surgeon?

No, talking about being a surgeon. Oh, my God, I couldn't even imagine all the years of school and I could barely get through school as it was, you know, it was. I have to be interested if occasionally you had a great teacher that would keep your interest somebody who really loved what they were doing and you saw that and had an interest in you and those were always the best teachers and they were rare they were few and far between yeah but um anyway and what's your handles by the way oh it's nothing i don't have like a fun name on the internet it's just my name it's just at sophia bush you heard that follow the girl

yeah uh this has been a real treat thank you and uh i loved having you on you're welcome anytime Thank you. And I hope you'll post when this is out. So people will listen to it because I think it's a great conversation. You just let me know the day. And yeah, we should get Blanche and Maggie on a walk. I would love that. Maggie will teach her a thing or two.

Oh, I would love that. Yeah. And Blanche is really good with other dogs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. I mean, she gets excited.

Yeah. I mean, same. Okay, good. I get excited and so does Maggie. Good. Say goodbye to Ryan. Ryan. Sophia.

It's been a pleasure. I'm learning, guys. You are. You are. You're doing a great job. Yeah. Look at that. Right at the mic.

Wow. What did you like about Sophia, Ryan? I didn't like that everyone kept making fun of me for my mic skills. Your mic skills were all off. I know how to use a mic. Guys. Guys. I promise.

Yeah, we were giving him shit a little bit, but. But she was very nice. She was very good. She was really, just really quick, had a lot to say and said it and spoke her mind. And I think that's what you see is what you get with Sophia Bush. Yeah. So look, thank you for listening. Thank you for, if you really enjoyed that episode, I hope you'll subscribe to the podcast. You'll follow us on our handles. At Inside You Pod on Twitter, inside of you podcast on Facebook and Instagram and all that jazz. Thank you for everyone

for coming to the stage at last week and watching my band Sunspin play, two shows. It was a real treat. Join Patreon. Don't forget, support the podcast. I'll message you right away after you join usually within a few days and uh that's patreon.com slash inside of you join the patron family today and the inside of you online store tons of great merch and the sunspin store where you can get tons of band merch like the shirt the sunspin shirt just go to sunspin.com uh for that uh patrians without you i've said it before i can't really do the show you guys make it happen and i'm to read off the top tier patrons that get packages from me every couple of months and special notes from me and a bunch of other perks. Let's just do it right now. Nancy D. Leah S. Tricia. F. Sarah.

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I used to go to that store all the time. Emily C. Coleman G. Dev Nexon, Michelle A, Liz L, Jeremy C, Andy T, Cody R, Sebastian, K, G, Gavinator, David C, Elliott, M, John B, Brandy, Brandy, D, Yvore, Bono, Urbano, Patrick Case, H, and Joey M. Thank you, you lovely patrons for making this show possible. And you, um, subscribing to Patreon, like I said, over and over really does wonders for the show and keeps us ticking. And we want to keep on doing this show.

Um, I certainly enjoy it. And, uh, Ryan, did you have a good week? I know you were, you had to isolate since I tested positive and you had to isolate for 14 days. I mean, I know it's not my fault, but were you. mad at me at all? Yes. You are. Uh-huh. Why? Because I don't think anyone should have been at your house. What do you mean? I wouldn't have to include this, but no, I don't think. No, it's okay. Let's talk about it. No, I don't want to, um, no, I think, uh, if you were feeling shitty on Tuesday. Wednesday. And Wednesday. And you took the test on Thursday. And I was negative. But you took the

PCR and that came in on Friday. That came in Friday, but I was, I was, hear me out. Honest to God, I wouldn't have had anybody here. And the reason why I had somebody here is because I was feeling tired and I just had back surgery and I was still on pain meds and I'm still like, you know, recovering. So Wednesday I was a little fatigued, but nothing, nothing major at all. Thursday still just a little fatigued. So I didn't feel, and by the way, my symptoms only were extreme fatigue. It just got worse and worse until I was finally like, there's no way I can have. I'm vaccinated. I'm just tired. I just was in Houston. It's two hours ahead. In my mind, I really felt like there's no way I have COVID.

There's just no fucking way. I was pretty good in Houston. They had a plexiglass in front of me. So just to, you know, let you understand if I had congestion and sore throat and swollen lymph nodes and all these things, I didn't lose my sense of smell or taste. So it wasn't until I got that test. I was like, I can't. And what happened? I went and got tested again immediately because I didn't know if I believed it.

I thought it was a false positive. So that's why I got tested again immediately the next day, thinking there's, you know, and then Friday night I started to feel more tired and Saturday. And I felt like, wow, this is a fatigue that I haven't had. So I really apologize, but I really didn't believe I had it. And I was, I was thinking, you know, at first, it just didn't cross my mind that I had COVID. When you're faxed, you just don't think, you know, I'm pretty cautious. and I didn't get it for a year and a half.

I just didn't think I was going to get it. And I didn't have these extreme symptoms. I just was really tired. And I thought, well, I'm just fucking tired. That's why I got tested on Thursday. And when that first test came back negative, I go, of course, I'm negative. And the guy goes, it's 96% effective. And I'm like, all right, I'm just tired.

Or if anything, maybe I have a cold. Do you hear me out? Yeah. Are you still mad? I mean, it was a rough week. It was a rough week, man. It was just, it was not something I've, really needed to be dealing with and I know you had the whole disease and I'm sorry you had it

and it sounded really shitty and it sounded like it sucked um I guess at the time I was sort of feeling like well if he's feeling shitty early in the week well there's no way we should have been here on massed there's just no way we should have been here well again it didn't feel like I had anything other than fatigue in fact like I said for the next 12 days what did I have extreme fatigue that's it no other symptoms so if I started to get a sore throat and I started to to feel these things, I'd be like, fuck, guys, I'm sick. I'm not going to be in front of people when I'm sick. But the fact that it was negative and it was fatigue and I just had gotten back and it was my

first trip and I was tired, you don't realize my back was all swollen when I was there. So it was constantly icing down, which made me feel like shit. I was just constantly running around. And I just felt like I was just drained. Yeah. But I never thought for a second that I had COVID. Yeah. I mean, I swear to God, I did not think I had COVID.

I mean, I'll just say, like, it was very, I'll just say what it was like for me was just very sudden and, like, immediately just sort of felt like, fuck, uh, this, this, this is really gonna fuck everything up. So I had to call a man down my way home. Is it, okay, so Michael just got a positive test for COVID. And, um, I'm going home. She's like, shit, I still have auditions to do. So I went into my apartment because my, our closet is the recording studio. Right. So right because we had to turn that like into COVID so I just I went into my I went into my apartment I showered I stayed mass the whole time she came in massed she finished her auditions and then she sort of like took some food out of the fridge and was like well fucking

bye and so she just had to go to her place and she and you had 14 days of yeah and so yeah so she she lost the the recording booth she had her microphone but she sort of lost sound quality and um and that was kind of a big bummer for her and um and then i mean this is obviously not your fault but this is just something that really shittily happened like while we're quarantining um one of her her childhood friend just fucking died from covid not covid not even covid he died in a car accident in france oh and she it was it was killer just all of us sudden she got a text on a morning and um i was super bummed because i couldn't comfort her i couldn't comfort her in the way i needed to and um it's i mean it's obviously it's part of the isolation

process it was just really i mean this shouldn't like happen ever but it was just really shitty timing and she was just she's a fucking mess still uh the funerals today oh i'm so sorry man so that was just sort of it was just one sort of thing after anything after any another. Yeah. And she also, she had like a big job on Tuesday. So like pretty much like the second I call her, she's like, well, I got to fuck off because it's a, I have a job, like a huge like job in three days. I was just baffled by the whole fucking thing. I was baffled because for a year and a half, I didn't get it and I was very careful. And then I get vaxed. And then, then I randomly get it. And let me tell you guys something. I will say this. Thank God I was

vaxed. Because I feel like if I wasn't vaxed, I probably would have gone to the hospital. I felt like I couldn't move by the next week. It wasn't even until the next week where I started to feel really bad. That was like Wednesday, that following week, where I just, it was one of these things where you're just lying there and you know you have to eat because you haven't eaten all day and you're like, I can't, I can't even go upstairs. I can't even go on postmates I just don't have this drink to go on postmates

or something I was just so tired I remember the guy at the door at postmates knocked and he just stood there and I go hey you can just leave it there he goes hello I go you can just leave it there

he goes well I just want to make sure I go hey buddy I have COVID dude and he just fucking took off I was like dude get the fuck out of here well I'm sorry about all this I mean if I can go back in time and really think that I you know had it I never would have

done that Friday. I certainly wouldn't have had an interview. I mean, it was, you know, if I thought I had fucking COVID, it was the last thing I thought I had. And, uh, it's just a drag. This whole situation is a drag. But, you know, I feel really safe now, now that I've had it, and I'm vaxed. It's like I'm almost super vaxed in a way. Yeah. But, you know, you still got to be, you know, we have a rule now. I mean, we had a rule anyway. It's like you're not coming in here unless you're vaxed. And that's just, you know, we have a guest that's coming in next week. And, you know, you're not vaxed. You're not coming in. I was surprised to hear that potential

guest is not faxed. I was surprised about that. Yeah, we don't have to bring that up. I won't. But yes. Yeah, I know. I just don't get it. I don't get it. Especially when you're working in this industry, you sort of, I think you have to be faxed. Yeah. I won't include that, but I don't have to include anything. No, you can include the whole thing if you want.

People are either listening or not. You don't have to, you know, by this point, they're gone anyway. Don't you agree? You guys are still listening. We just got into a little conversation about this And I thought it was healthy and it was real and it was, you know, it was what's going on in the world. And so there you have it. It's scary.

Get fucking back. Get vaccinated. Please get vaccinated for your own benefit, for people around you. You don't know how you're going to respond. I'm pretty healthy, you know. And I felt like I was about a day away from going to the hospital. I felt like I just can't function as a human being. and and you know then my doctor said take a Z-pack do this and then it turned around for me

I took a Z-pack loaded up on vitamin C vitamin D zinc all these other things and three days later it just completely turned around and um but yeah do yourselves a favor you don't you don't want to you don't want it you don't want it doesn't give a shit COVID doesn't care who you are you can be as healthy as a fucking fiddle is that what you say fit as a fiddle is a healthy as a healthy as a hawk of ham hawk of ham guys thank you for listening and we love you

and we really appreciate you tuning in from myself Michael Rosenbaum and myself Ryan Tears there's a camera up there from the Hollywood Hills in California California we love you and we thank you for listening and we'll talk to you soon thank you

for allowing to be inside of each and every one of you Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this edition that we're adding. $50,000. I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. We're out of here. Stacky Benjamin's

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