Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - STEPHEN AMELL Gets Honest About ARROW Ending, Career Control, and Fatherhood

Episode Date: February 24, 2026

Stephen Amell (Arrow, Heels) joins us again this week for a deeply reflective and grounded conversation about identity after Arrow, taking responsibility when projects fail, and learning how to let go of ego in both career and life. Stephen opens up about Suits LA ending abruptly, why he still considers it one of the best experiences of his career, and how perspective changes when you stop trying to control outcomes. We also talk about auditioning later in life, creative humility, and why sometimes the best move is to step back and let the knot untangle itself. Thank you to our sponsors: ❤️ This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. Give online therapy a try at https://betterhelp.com/inside and get on your way to being your best self __________________________________________________ 💖 Patreon: ⁠⁠https://www.patreon.com/insideofyou⁠⁠ 👕 Inside Of You Merch: ⁠⁠https://store.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Watch or listen to more episodes! 📺 ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/show⁠⁠ __________________________________________________ Follow us online! 📸 Instagram: ⁠⁠https://instagram.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🤣 TikTok: ⁠⁠https://www.tiktok.com/@insideofyou_podcast⁠⁠ 📘 Facebook: ⁠⁠https://www.facebook.com/insideofyoupodcast/⁠⁠ 🐦 Twitter: ⁠⁠https://twitter.com/insideofyoupod⁠⁠ 🌐 Website: ⁠⁠https://www.insideofyoupodcast.com/⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's never too early to plan your summer story in Europe with WestJet, from rolling countryside to cobblestone streets. Begin your next chapter. Book your seat at westjet.com or call your travel agent. WestJet, where your story takes off. If you just let things go sometimes and you get out of the way, you'd just be amazed if you think of it like a knot, you're holding a knot here and you're holding a rope.

And if you yank on it hard, all you're doing is making the knot tighter and stronger and more difficult to undo. Yeah, but also I think I had to go to TV jail for a second. I think you have to go, maybe not TV jail, but like timeout. Get to go to time out for a second. You're the face of something. It's this big thing. It's the biggest high profile IP show that's coming out and then it gets canceled.

So you have to go and time out. It's really difficult to see that at the time. and I don't regret the decision, but, you know, hindsight's 2020. We don't think that he can do X. Right. Well, there's two ways to go there. Those people. Or, okay, well, let me show you.

Did you think it was good enough? Which one hurt more? Are you going to therapy at all still? In your own words, what does self-worth mean? Have you ever regretted that decision? Like, I should have got a couple more seasons. You're listening to Inside of you. you with Michael Rosenbaum. Great show. Hi, Ryan. Hi. Got a great show today. Yeah.

Yeah. Stephen Amel is back talking about Arrow, talking about a lot of things. He gets deep and we're going to find out some really great information. It's always nice having him here and he lives around the corner. So it's easy. Yep. A few things. Um, if you want to join Patreon and support this podcast, Patreon.com slash inside you with such a great group of people and, um, community. You'll have so much fun on And there's great perks. So you could be on the podcast, you get your name shouted out, you get boxes sent for me and much, much more. You could be on the show. So join and support the show and give back if you can, patreon.com slash inside of you.

Also at the Michael Rosenbaum on Instagram. And you can go there on my link tree and cameos. I do wonderful cameos. Wonderful, wonderful cameos. I almost did a Trump. Wonderful. No, that sounded like something else. The inside of you online store has a bunch of great merch.

So check it out. There's a lot of new stuff on there and a lot of smallville stuff too. Ryan, you're doing all right? I'm doing okay. Yeah. Hang it in there. Are you therapeutizing? Therapized.

I haven't missed therapy last week. I'll have it tomorrow. Okay, good. I'll have two weeks off of it and I'll be back in it. You'll need it after those two weeks. Yeah, a lot of travel. Travel. I'm traveling.

I can't say thanks enough for listening to this. If you are here just for Stephen Amel and you like the episode, please subscribe, write a review. And I would certainly appreciate that. And without further ado, let's get inside of Stephen Amel. It's my point of view. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum. Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum was not recorded in front of a live studio audience.

I mean, last time you were here, you were about to do suits. Yep. And you were pumped about that. And what happened? It wasn't good enough. Did you think it was good enough? That's a tough question. It is a tough question.

I mean, ultimately, ultimately, it's a failure. I think that anything that ends not on your terms is a failure. It's not a complete failure because you've probably been in a pilot that hasn't made it to series. Yes. I've been very fortunate. I've done two pilots. Both have made it to series. I've done a show that lasted two seasons got canceled.

Right. Did I think it was a failure? No, I was proud of the show. Yeah. I mean, Heels was two seasons that got canceled. Suitz, L.A. was, I mean, look, ultimately, I think that the blame rests with me because whatever, I think it does. Whatever problem you have with the show, because I think that there were issues, but it's my job to solve those, to smooth them over, to gloss the, to gloss the them up with some type of performance or something that tangible or otherwise that covers up

those mistakes. Those mistakes because you do something that is magnetic, that is charismatic, that fixes those problems. And I didn't do that. I didn't find anything ultimately with Ted Black, that character that translated, that translated that smoothed those things over that gave us a chance to keep going i remember watching the pilot of arrow and thinking i don't know enough to know if i'm right and i probably still don't but man this feels really good right and when i saw the pilot of suits l.a and this goes back to

about a month after we finished shooting i sat down with aaron korsh uh who created suits in suits l.a and he was editing the pilot and he was like, I don't know if this is gonna, I don't know if this is gonna work. And a lot of what he wanted to do seemed to run up against what the network wanted. And it seems like they just kind of went, I don't wanna say they battled because I wasn't a part

of those conversations. So I'm not gonna speculate. But it just seemed like, like what he wanted to do and what they wanted to do were different. We're different. And that's tough. It is tough. It's also not anyone's,

anyone's fault because it's passion on both sides. 100%. You, you think you're doing the right thing. They think they're doing the right thing. And quite often, maybe that gets us another season. We certainly thought that we were going to have another one.

And we get to work out some of those issues. and it just so happened that they went, no, we're going to pull the plug. Well, I don't know how you blame yourself because, I mean, look, you're a part of it, right? Right, but here's so, but if it's successful, I'm going to get a disproportionate amount

of the credit. And so I think it's only fair that you get some of the credit for one or some of the, that I stand in front and I take the blame. I'm the lead of the series. And, And it didn't, it didn't work. The ironic thing, maybe it's ironic, I don't know,

is that it was such a wonderful experience. Yeah, you really like the, tip to tail. I loved the people. We shot the pilot in Vancouver, and there was something very special and poetic about that because it was, it was 2024, so we're talking 12 years after I was up in Vancouver shooting the pilot of Arrow.

We had one crew member, Diana, in the wardrobe department, that just worked a day or two on the pilot. Other than that, it was primarily new people. But then it got picked up to series. And two days later, I got told that it was shooting in L.A. So we were shooting on the Universal Lot. Dream come true. Dream come true.

See, that's the biggest kind of. It's a real kick in the dick. It's a real kick in the dick. man, because I taste- To film in LA is such a rare thing. And when that happens, you're like, I hit gold. I struck gold. I fucking tasted it.

I did. Universal's great, too. Universal's great. We were on the back portion of the lot that's right next to Warner Brothers, and you can drive in right off of, I think it's Lancashim, I'm not sure. But you can drive in right there,

right where our studios were, and I did not do that. Every day, assuming I had time, which was basically every day, I would drive in the front entrance, and drive all the way through the lot, like all the way back. I'd wind the entire way.

Kind of like a kid with like, just excited about being in the studio. Yeah. You know, studio a lot. I'd roll down my windows. I'd turn off my music and I would have this five,

six minute meditative drive to our trailers. I did the same thing when I did the show. It was terrible. It was, I think it was ranked 133rd show out of 132. It was really bad. It was when I first started. But I was so excited.

I thought I'd made it. And in a lot of ways, I did because you're on a TV show. This kid from Indiana, I was happy. I was just after every day of working, I just look forward to going on all the rides. Yeah. You were right there. Yeah. Even at lunch, I would go in the mummy ride or whatever.

Would you really? Whatever it was then. Was the mummy there? I think the mummy, I don't know if it was there. But one of those, I would go on rides, Jurassic Park. Maybe it was. You'd go get wet at lunch? Well, maybe.

I knew where to sit on that Jurassic Park ride. There's no good place to sit. You never. But like I remember next door, they were filming seven, six days in the night. What was that one with Harrison Ford? Six days, seven nights. And I went up to Harrison Ford. I go, hey, I'm an actor.

I'm filming next door. And he's like, get the fuck away from me. He's like, oh, yeah, shit. your hand, but it's just kind of dirty here. And I go, oh, no, I don't care. And I shook his hand. He's like, all right, well, good luck to him. It was brief, but it was Harrison Ford, man.

I was like, so yeah, I know what you mean. So it's kind of, it hits you more when it's like, shit, man, there's a perfect gig. And this just didn't last. Well, you don't want to attach yourself to it. But at the same time, it's, it was a 15 minute drive from my house. And so we filmed from. early November through basically the beginning of May and man the experience when did you hear that it was canceled during May 9th day after my day after my birthday and it was

already airing at this point or done it finale hadn't even aired yet I haven't watched the finale is it too close to you yeah I just don't want to why I don't feel like I have a mental block I'm not hung up on it but maybe because that means you know that that's the end and like maybe Maybe, you know. No, I've let it go. Maybe I just don't, maybe I just don't want to watch it. Maybe I will want it. It's not that I haven't, I mean, I don't often watch every episode of television that I'm in when it airs.

I usually watch like a studio cut or a network cut. But we, I wrapped. And I remember I got this really lovely round of applause from the crew. And I said to them, it was like, it was like, it was. It was like a Friday night. I was like, you know, guys, with due respect, I was under the impression that we were going to be going back to work and going back to work soon.

I said, you know, honestly, guys, I'm going to take this time. My wife and I are going to go away. I'm not even coming to the rap party. I'll see you guys in like six weeks. That was the impression that I had. So that's how much confidence you had. That's how much confidence that I had that was imbued in me from other people. And then I got a call from Aaron Corsion, Dave Bar,

artist on May 9th. What was that call like? Was it quick? It was quick. I think. Hey, Stephen. I just want to get right to it. Well, I mean, you just hear the tone of the voice.

I think it was Dave being like, I'll get Aaron. It's like, fuck. And I think they knew before they said it. I did know, if you believe in energy, there's just something about when I saw who was calling me, the time that they were calling me, I knew before I picked up the phone.

I'm like, we didn't get renewed. There's something about that. I don't know what it is. Yeah. I had the president of TV land call me, Keith, who I love. And he goes, hey, bud. And I go, hey. He goes, look, we love you.

We want to work with you. We just were looking for more female-oriented shows. This is, it just doesn't fit in the mold. We love the show. We love you. But, you know, you're too much man. And I just go, well, I was a goofball in it. And I was.

I thought it was lovable, but maybe not that lovable. But, you know, I remember going, I was kind of relieved at first. Like, oh, good. You know, I did a couple seasons. It's fine, you know. And it wasn't until later that I started to realize, man, that was a really good gig. It was good people. I love the crew.

I brought a lot of the smallville crew over to the show. You know, it was three and a half months a year. It was a half hour. And it was Vancouver. and, you know, I thought I'd be fine with it. And then I was like, fuck, man, that, that sucks. Because when you have something good, you know, you, you're lucky to be working in this industry at all.

A thousand percent. And, you know, getting back to the original thing that I think that it was going to do well, not do well, I remember sitting with Aaron and them really having to, he really felt like he had to piece the pilot. together to make it work to to to get in line with the notes that he was getting from NBC and I remember thinking that's not how shooting the pilot felt the director of Victoria Mahoney the vibe everything was like great I was like we are off and we are running and this is yeah this is really really this is amazing and to hear that he was

having difficulty satisfying what they were asking for, it turns out, apparently, it just, it almost didn't go. It almost didn't get picked up. Did you know that? I didn't know that until you were after the fact. Right. But I also think that I'm at the point of my career where I really try to stay in my lane. You know, I'm there to do a job. I'm there to, um, move the day long. So you don't try to let ego, you don't let ego get in the way. I try to keep ego out of almost everything in my life now.

Sometimes it's hard, but sometimes it's best. It's incredibly hard. It's almost always best too. Because if you're, if it's ego, then you're just thinking about yourself and you're blind to the collective. So I go,

I try to do my job, whereas on Arrow, and to a lesser extent on heels, because we were also separated because of COVID. But on Arrow, I tried to do everybody's job. but ultimately I was thinking about how everyone's job reflects back on how I look because it was just ego whereas on you're younger very much so whereas on suit to LA it was like I'm here to do a job if somebody came to me from the cast and had a question and I thought that I could be helpful I would be helpful but otherwise I would leave people to their own devices focused on what I had to do and I think with that also offers is as opposed to getting in there and trying to fix everybody's problems, which doesn't

do anybody any good, you point them in the direction of the people that should be solving those problems or you just tell them to deal with it themselves because then they find their own agency. And you're not inundating yourself with things that don't have anything to do with you and that aren't moving the show forward in a productive way. So it was very, It was very jarring to get that phone call because the experience felt great. And I know that everyone on the crew felt the same way. The cast felt the same way. Do you get emotional when something like this gets canceled?

Do you have a moment where you're by yourself or not that you cry or any, but do you get like just down for a while? And how long does it take for you to get out? What helps? Yeah, I did have emotional moments. I reached out almost immediately to the president, to the head honcho over at NBC and Universal, sent her an email that night just to thank her for the opportunity. And then I actually got together with Lisa Katz over at NBC Universal in August of this year to sit down and have a coffee and try to figure out what I did. that worked for them and also what I could do better in the in the future, whether I'm working with them again.

So you're going into it thinking, is it something I did? Is it something I can be better about? Is there anything that I could better myself? I mean, I know that I said that ultimately this is, is my responsibility. Concurrently, it's not that I blame myself. You did the best you could.

Because I can look back at that entire season from, again, from tip to tail, Every day, I wouldn't take a day back, a scene back, a choice back, a line reading back, an interaction back, everything. I'm, I have two regrets if I could actually think of them. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. BetterHelp has been with me for a long time as my sponsor. I want to give a shout out to them.

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I have two regrets if I could actually think of them. Number one, I didn't get to have any input on my picture in the poster, which was just a miscommunication with people. And I saw it for the first time and I was like, that's the photo that you guys are using. And that was just something that, again, this is ego. That's just me being like, I, maybe I would have chosen a different picture.

Maybe I wouldn't have, by the way. It was more that I didn't get the opportunity in the first place. And I also regretted going to New York for two quick press hits because in order to do that, I'd fly there on the Sunday the day that the show premiered. And I wasn't with the rest of the kids. cast and some of the producers watching it in LA. And that felt like, uh, it felt like he had more time. Like you'd see them again. Like, no, no, no, no, no, no, we, we were filming. Oh, you were filming.

We were filming. And I think we were sort of like halfway through the season or maybe a little bit more than halfway through the season. But it's like, what am I working for if I don't get to watch the premiere with the people that I'm working with? That's the fun. That's the fun. Yeah. And I was in New York and I did a quick hit on the, to, Day Show and a quick hit on Kelly Clarkson. And with due respect to both of those programs, which were lovely and I appreciate that they had me. Yeah. I remember talking to one of the EPs, me like, you know, I should have been with my

people watching the show. But those are two pretty superficial, relatively meaningless regrets. The overall experience was really, really extraordinary. Yeah. And I think I learned a lot. It was a very challenging job. But yeah, man, I did. I thought I had more time. I mean, you know, you probably did this because I know you and you care a lot about your family, about work, about people. But, you know, heels doesn't get picked up two seasons. You're thinking it might, someone else might pick it up. Right? There was talk about that. There was talk, but there's talk about everything. People come back to me.

They're like, I hear Arrow season nine's coming back. It's like, it's not. I don't know where you heard that, but it's, that's, there's. You'd be the first to know. I would be the first to know. There aren't rumors floating around. And, you know, with heels, I always said to myself, okay, yeah, it might get on Netflix, but even if it blew up, who even owns it?

It's one of those things. Who, which one hurt more? Nah, heels not coming back for a third season or suits not coming back for a second? Suits not coming back for a second. Really? I think. Yeah, that was a big opportunity for me, man. I mean, it's, it's a, it was a big job.

Do you start to think what's wrong with me? Like, why, you know, we think that because we're so, like, invested that we're like, oh, is it my fault? Like, you put, you take blame, some of the blame for suits, but, obviously. But, like, these are out of your control. You do in the immediate aftermath, but then you get a little perspective. I've got a lot of great people that I talk to on a regular basis. Really good friend of mine that I've, that I worked with for a couple of seasons of television.

And he's always got wonderful perspective for me. I was given an amazing opportunity. I did the very, very best that I could. There were a lot of things that were out of my control. So do I bear a bit of the responsibility? I sure do because I would also take the adulation if it had gone a different way. But I don't think that there's something intrinsically wrong

with me. It just so happens that the first show that I did was a bit of a unicorn in the business. Well, heels. Arrow. Oh, Arrow. Yeah, right. I mean, it goes eight years. It stops because midway through season six, I say, I think that that's probably enough. I think we've done enough. So we actually got to end that on our terms. But the percentage of shows that you make that you get to end on your terms would probably fall below 1%. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. If you think of all of the shows that are made, the fact that we got a year on the air, it's a relative success. Would I like to still be shooting it? It's what I said, Lisa, cats when we sat down for coffee i was i was like listen i'm happy to be here i'm happy to see you we had the meeting exactly where we had our premier party which she didn't do on purpose that kind of heard a little bit i told her that uh that was just one of those happy accidents because we had it

on the universal lot and that's where our party was as well but it's like i said to her i said you know i'd rather be sitting down and chatting with you about how we can best launch the second season after a long day of shooting on the lot but nonetheless here we are so yeah let's make the best i thought maybe heels would hurt more because you love wrestling so much and that you know you were enjoying this you were doing your own stunts you were doing so that was that would have hit more but there's just so much that's out of your control you know it's all out of your control it's timing right it's are you on the right network is that network in a good spot is your programming what they are prioritizing do you catch a lot of lucky breaks do you catch lightning in a bottle multi

times, be it the casting of a guest star that pops or a director that comes on that sees something new and pushes your show in that direction. You never know when you cast people. You might do a chemistry read, but do these people get along? Are they going to... They have chemistry on film. Are they going to make these relationships more three-dimensional over time because a friendship goes, you don't fucking know. You never know what people are going to like. Yeah, no, that makes perfect sense. I mean, you look at some people and there's a lot of people that would say the best thing that ever happened to them was they were on a show that got canceled after a year

because the show was hot or maybe their character died or something like that and all of a sudden they go out into the world and there's a whole bunch of opportunities waiting for them. So, you know, I think the interesting part is that I've got a show coming out in Canada right after the Super Bowl called on Crave called The Borderline

and this is a, job that was offered to me way back in the middle of 2023 and then got shelved because the industry got shelved for several months, but stuck around in 2024. And I actually went and shot it in between the pilot and the second episode of Futa L.A. Is it a movie? No, it's a, well, they called it a limited series. How many did you do? We did six episodes. It was called a limited series because otherwise I don't think NBC would have allowed me to do it. Right. So it was limited and now it can continue if we want it to.

But I went and shot those six episodes in between the pilot and the second episode. I shot it from basically mid-September through early November of 2024 and then came back when I was finished and 10 days later I was shooting suits L.A. And I basically did it thinking to myself, I get to be the lead of this. That's exciting. I'm an EP that's exciting and something that's new for me and something that I want to add to my resume or continue to add to my resume because I did that also on on the code eight films but I didn't know if it was going to be good have you seen borderline yeah how do you like it

it's fucking awesome really yeah I got to watch this yeah hasn't come out yet but I sat down I started screening the episodes and I'm sitting down with uh two friends of mine and my wife, we get to the end of the first episode and my wife goes, what the fuck is this? This is awesome. She's like, how often does she say that? I don't think ever. Did she say it with suits? No. Did she say it with heels? I think she liked heels, but heels came out and everyone kind of knew what to expect. You know, it's cable, it's more prestige TV. Right. And so you kind of got what you expected. She went into this with zero expectations. And I'm not saying it was good

because she thought it was gonna be shit. But again, I was there busy and I was filming and we took all of my stuff and we blocked it in together because we shot all six episodes at once with one director. This guy Rob Boudreau, wonderful director. And we didn't,

I never really talked with her about what I was doing. I was just up in Canada working. She didn't, she, neither she, nor our kids came up because it was such a condensed shoot. So she had nothing. No idea what this was.

No idea going into it. Were you surprised when you saw it? Yes, I was. So you went for, and when, when you saw this, this was after suits was canceled? No, it would have been before I was starting to see screeners for it. But this is nice to know, okay, I got this on the background, you know, in the background, too. Yeah. I've got this show.

Well, that's the thing is every once in a while, because, you know, suits been, it's been about seven months since it's been canceled. and you know we can talk about this but I am a little bit of a believer that things happen for reason yeah but also I think I had to go to TV jail for a second I think you have to go maybe not TV jail but like time out get to go to time out for a second you're the face of something your fucking face is everywhere it's on billboards all over North America it's this big thing it's the biggest high profile IP show that's coming out and then it gets canceled so you have to go and time out yeah okay okay I'll think it's

Just a little bit of a step back. And so over the past several months, people like, what's going on? And I'm like, nothing. I got nothing. Oh, yeah. No, I got a show coming out. Because I forgot about it because of when we shot it. And then so much stuff happens.

And now it's actually going to come out. And I think that it's a new role for me. There's comedy to it. There's a little bit of action. Dark. It's dark, but it's so dark. it's funny that it becomes funny yeah like there's a scene where my without spoiling too much there's a scene where me and someone have to chop up a body and make this person unrecognizable right

and how you go about doing that the things that you're thinking that happen are kind of funny and it's so fucking dark that we're just having fun with it right it's almost like uh you know i think of a scene like Fargo where he's putting him in the woodcutter. Very much like Fargo. There's a little bit of Fargo. Yeah. All right. There's a little bit of Ozark.

It's set up in the Thousand Islands in, uh, in Ontario, in Canada. Are you going to do this again? Is, is that the idea? That's the plan. I mean, you'd go back. Oh, a thousand percent. I mean, I've read a script for, I've read a script for the second season. Um, I think a lot of the second season was, a lot of the second season was written because

they're very, proud of it. They're very happy with it. Right. And then Sukes got canceled. And Suetelli got canceled. But wouldn't that be a good thing for them? Yeah. But they had to rewrite it. Oh. Because I wasn't going to be in it. Now I want to see this thing. Yeah. It's, it's really good. I'll send you. I'll send you some screeners. But it's interesting because they, they, um, they were on the one yard line for a while with a network. And I don't, again, talk about staying in your lane. I don't understand why there's a necessity to make a deal before it comes out, I'd figure if you're proud of it, then bet on it, have it come out and see if people like it. But then a deal

hasn't gotten done yet. And then something like heated rivalry happens, which is another six-episode crave series. Different subject matter. But nonetheless, my girlfriend and so many people love that show. They love it. But it's a Canadian show. And it's six episodes. So it's just takes, I'm a big believer that the content that we make up in Canada is, you know, it's good content, it's good actors, sometimes there's some professional people. Yeah. And so maybe it's having a moment and maybe that's good for us. Maybe the fact that a deal wasn't done ends up getting us a better one. Yeah. Yeah. Mike Trott. You ready? Let's do it. Hosted by former Navy CEO Mike Ridland. It's unfiltered. You know, when you go to the sound of the gun, bam, you're gone. Twitter. I mean,

I've had so many near-death experiences. It's raw. I love this country. I offered my life to serve this nation and protect its people. The question, you know, what's the meaning of life? And to me, it just boils down to one single word, which is purpose. Mike Drop. Follow and listen on your favorite platform.

All right, before we jump back in, I just want to say thanks for listening and hanging out with us today. We've had the chance to sit down with, is that right, over 300 guests on this show from people like Alan Richon, Kenna Reeves, Kristen Ritter, J.K. Simmons, and a lot of others along the way. So if you're newer here, or if you've missed some episodes, there are a ton of great conversations in the archives worth checking out. They'll bring you to tears sometimes. And if you're enjoying the show, make sure you're subscribed wherever you're listening. It really helps support the podcast and make sure these episodes come up for you every week. And before we get back to it, here's a quick preview of what we've got coming up next week. I was very self-aware, but I'm also very

sort of very, I'm a critical and more critical of myself than anyone else. I don't hear, I like hearing nice things because it makes me feel like I'm a fraud sometimes. Yeah. And also I think I've tried to, I've kind of given up on this idea that I can work on taking compliments of any kind. And I think it would be nice and I'm still, I'm still have hope, but I'm very uncomfortable with that. I'm sure it stems back to childhood. There's no question about it. There are things about me that I'm still wrestling with. But it's, it's nice to hear. Yeah. But I'm just trying to still always process kind things about me. And I don't know why that is.

I mean, I do know why. But I guess because I haven't really addressed it and really sort of taking it on. Because honestly, I don't think it's that big of a deal if you can't take a compliment. Because it'd be one thing if you couldn't give one, you know, if you couldn't give one, if you weren't kind to people. If you didn't hype people up, if you weren't supportive of your friends. I think that's a bigger issue. I think, like, you know, and also I think, you know, you got to have something that's wrong with you as an actor always. You're never going to be 100.

I have so much wrong with me, Mike. So much wrong. You can't fix it all. All right. Let's jump back in. I mean, you always got to have something going on. You always, you're always doing something, whether it's code eight or then it's like, you know, the sequel. And then they want, you know, and then you do suits, but then you do the side series.

Yeah. You know, and you get that going on. So it's like, you know, I'm never worried about you. But you did say something like, and I think we've talked about this, but like season eight, you're like, I think this is, we've said all we need to say. I said that in ERO. Six. Right. And so you did eight seasons.

Do you have, have you ever regretted that decision? Like, I should have got a couple more seasons. Yeah. You did. Well, listen, I see it all the, I see it all the time. I was reading an article, I was reading an article on deadline about a series that's concluding.

And the actor that was being interviewed was like, yeah, you know, I just think that all of us are ready for it to be done. careful what you wish for. And I just read that. And I thought to myself, I went, shut the fuck up, man. You sound like me. Just shut the fuck up. Because that was exactly me.

No, no, no. Yeah, we said all that we could say, we're ready for it to be done. Like, we shouldn't have pushed on to 200 episodes or 225 or done 10 seasons. Right. It's really difficult to see that at the time. And I don't regret the decision. But, you know, hindsight's 2020. Should we have pressed on a little bit longer?

Should we have gotten to 200 episodes? That's a big deal. Right. It's a big deal. It's a big deal. It just doesn't happen very much. Like, why are you cashing in it 170? Well, you're fucking exhausted.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. I mean, you get to listen to your body sometimes. Yeah. Do you remember when you were done with it? Remember the anxiety you had? I do. But I also, too.

But I also know that I decided I wanted to be done. and then three months before we had wrapped shooting, I had already said yes to another lead of a television series. Yeah. With no episode limit, with nothing, just as physical. Are you going to therapy at all still? No.

I got a guy. No. No, I got a guy that I, uh, I got a, I got a couple of good buddies that I talk to on a fairly regular basis. Um, are your buddies professionals? No. No, they're not. But they'll cut through the bullshit.

They cut through the bullshit because we don't bullshit each other. You know, we have honest conversations. No matter how hard it is. Yeah. And what I've learned, and I think the thing that has really helped me over the past year, year and a half thereabouts, is, you know, I call up my buddy and I'm like, I'm, situation X is annoying me. It's just a typical day-to-day thing and I'm bothered by it and I want to do something. And he said this thing to me six, seven months ago that really sticks with me and it's going to

sound very simple. But he said, whatever you do, make sure that it's in the pursuit of a solution. I said, huh, that's interesting. Say that again. He said, whatever you're going to do, make sure that it is in the pursuit of a solution. otherwise don't do anything. And I thought about what I was going to do. What I was going to do was just essentially do something

that was going to provide a very temporary sense of satisfaction and superiority for the ego. For the ego. But ultimately, the net result, once the dust settles, was that I just, I hadn't fixed anything. And if anything, I've inflamed. Yeah. That's great advice.

It took me a second until you gave me an analogy. Yeah. That how important it is to sometimes let things go if they don't need fixing. Yeah. And don't try to solve something that can't be solved. Like you're trying to, you know, create the wheel. or whatever it is, you know, I think that, or a lot of time, most of the time, it's ego. You're thinking, I need to be heard.

I need to be always ego. And just like, hey, let it go. Let me let the work speak for itself. If you just let things go sometimes and you get out of the way, you'd just be amazed. If you think of it like, if you think of it like a knot, right? You're holding a knot here and you're holding a rope. And if you yank on it hard. all you're doing is making the knot tighter and stronger and more difficult to undo.

And instead, if you just kind of hold it in one hand and just kind of jiggle it around a little bit, that fucking knot will undo itself. It really will. And you won't have anything to do with it. But if you have the wherewithal to just back away. Yeah. Sometimes I say things like, it's hard. It's hard.

I created a show and we're about to pitch it. And, you know, we're going through the visuals. and I go, first thing I saw some of the visuals, and I go, I didn't choose that actor. Is that? In my head, I was like, I don't see him as this role. But the showrunner, you know, was working on the visuals. And, you know, I liked the visuals that are great. And, you know, I said, yeah, I don't know about this guy as the actor.

I just, you know, it doesn't do. He's more of a tough guy. He's always tough. I want somebody that says more of a vulnerability. I just, you know, like, you know, and then I thought, this is, this doesn't matter right now. It doesn't matter that I'm fighting this because sell the show and they're going to want, you know, they're going to choose. Yeah.

They're going to approve so and so. So there's certain things that I just got to go, great. I don't need to waste my time adding, adding to this. I don't hate the idea. So let it go. You know, there's no solution here. What am I going to, they're going to get upset with me now that we're changing that. We have to change the visuals.

It's not worth it. There was a part that I had an audition. This was a couple of months, this was maybe July of this year. And this audition came up for a part. It was for the Rip and Beth Yellowstone spin-off for Paramount. Oh, wow. Plus. Yeah.

I read the sides. I read the breakdown. And I said, you know, I don't think I'm, I don't think I'm right for this. This feels like a Jai Courtney part. I said that out loud because he and I, we've, we've crossed paths. Yeah, we've crossed, we've met once,

but we just crossed past in terms of roles and things like that. Auditions. Yeah, but he's very, we're not the, we're not the same. Different, but in essence. Sure. Right.

This feels like a fucking Jai Courtney part. But I talked with my buddy Kevin, and I was like, you know, I don't think I'm gonna get this. He goes, what does that matter? He goes, do it anyway. Just put together a good tape. Feel good about it.

And then let it go. So you don't have to think about it anymore. So it doesn't have to hang over your head. So I did just that. I put together a great tape. I get the feedback for my agent and my manager. They're like, they like the tape. It's with the people that make decisions.

And it sat there for a month. But I wasn't, I wasn't hemming and hawing over it because I didn't think that I was right for it. And like a month later, they get in touch with me. And they said, yeah, they're going in a different direction on this one. They cast it. I said, who'd they cast.

Said, Jai Courtney. Said, oh, okay. And what I get from that is, okay, I did a good tape. I enjoyed it. I got to try something new. I got to learn something. And I got the nice little pat on the back that sometimes my instincts are correct. But also sometimes you're wrong.

Yeah, you could be wrong. You also never know where a tape is going to land. You know, going back to 2010, when I first moved here, one of my first, I'd say like the cool first job that I got was on the vampire diaries. But it wasn't from an audition that they liked me for. It was because I auditioned for the show three times and then they just offered me something. Wow.

See, so that benefited you. Yeah, 100%. I once did a pilot and they sent me the pilot and said they were recasting this actor. And the actor was Jeremy Renner. And I watched the pilot and I go, I walked into the room. They were very interested in me. And I walked into this room. And I've never been more confident.

I sat down and I looked at all these producers in the face. And I go, why the fuck would you recast this actor? He's great. Oh, my God. You guys are insane. And they looked at me and go, that's why. And I go, what do you mean? He's like, the confidence that you're showing right now,

that's what we want. We want that for the role. Oh. And I was like, what? All right. It was the weirdest thing. But like, you never know. You never, ever, ever know.

First of all, congratulations, guys, on not being able to catch the whole Jeremy Runner of it all. Yeah, he didn't do that well in his career. No, he, no. No, no. Well, you did, you know, probably the second most famous Archer that's been on television.

Maybe. Sure. I know he's not on television. No, wait a minute, they did a television show. It doesn't matter. So the, what was I going to say? It's gone. But no, I was just laughing about,

like you see this all the time in the industry where, you know, someone like Will Arnette, who I worked with on Turtles, you know, gets a chance in the Bradley Cooper film. Is this thing on? And it's like, the industry is seeing him in a new light. Congratulations, guys. Way to go for giving a guy a chance.

Oh, really? The guy that does really intricate comedy and is funny and affecting. And is a good guy. And is a good guy. Oh, my God. He's an amazing in a dramatic role. Wow. Congratulations on waking up.

Do you know? After a quarter of a fucking century. Yeah, I agree. You know, another thinking of roles that like I didn't get. I got this. I auditioned for Bob Odenkirk for this movie that my friend. and Dax Shepard was in. Yeah, I like Dax.

And the movie didn't do very well, but that doesn't really matter. So Odenkirk says, great, you're the role. It's you and Dax. I was like, great. Well, I got a call a week later and say, hey, you know, this is not my fault, but the people who are financing it, they have this other guy in mind after giving me the role. And we just want you to come and meet with them.

and I met with them. And then Bob called me and said, I don't even know what to say, but they, you know, Will Arnette. They're giving it to Will Arnette. And they did the movie. So he, you know, but I, I remember going, he's a good dude. He's a good dude. I met him a couple times.

And, you know, it is nice to see someone have a chance. And sometimes it takes, and it's rare, that someone will be super successful, like a Bradley Cooper and go, you're talented. No one's ever seen what I know you can do. Yep. And I'm going to show the world for you and you're going to help me. And a lot of times we don't have that. You know, I have a lot of friends who are big directors, but like to actually go, I'm going to take a chance on you. Yeah. I'm going to direct a movie and write it with you and we're going to do this. And that's a beautiful thing. And to yank it back again, this just gets back to you're going to get that pushback in the industry.

it's just how you react to it. Someone says, no, we don't want to see Stephen for this because we don't think that he can do X. Well, there's two ways to go there. Fuck those people. Or, okay, well, let me show you. Or okay, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right.

Maybe I need to take a look at myself. Right. What could I do? What could I do differently? How could I have posted? A thousand percent. I think if you, you know, 10 years ago, it might have been different.

But I think that we slowly men, especially, we evolve slower, slower than women. And sometimes, a lot of times it's ego, it's proving ourselves, it's being a man, it's being whatever. And sometimes you just have to say, fuck it. Let's let things land the way they will. And you know, do the best you can.

And I mean, you can get super evolved like my buddy, my buddy Max, who I talked to about, jobs and he's like, dude, he's already been decided, man. That job's yours. It's yours. How many times have you ever done this? I don't want an audition because they're going to give this to a star. And how many times are usually right most of the time? It's the times that you're not right that you have to bank on, you know, because that's happened to me. I mean, it's happened to me quite often. The other thing that I try to do as well, because there is a natural, there's a natural competition within the industry because if someone is a guy and he's my age and we sort of fall into a similar category, you get into the comparison business, which again is just ego, but it's also, it's impossible not to acknowledge. It's what you do with it. But I try to remember all the time that there's nothing, there's nothing. There's nothing.

different about what a quote unquote A list actor is doing, they're remembering their lines the same way. They got to get up in the morning the same way. They might have a bad night's sleep. They might have the fucking, they might have fucking diarrhea. Like, you never know. Everyone's, everyone is dealing with the same thing. And you remind yourself, if you actually go and you do six degrees of yourself, you're like, oh, no, I worked with that person. No, I worked with that person. I work with that person. I deserve to be here. I deserve a seat at this table.

Yeah. Everyone is working for it in the same way. Some people get different opportunities. Some people get different avenues and the business gets behind them and they supercharged them. And that's wonderful. And I've been in that position now. I've been in that position multiple times and it's gone really well.

It's gone okay. It's gone great. It's not gone well. You know, it's just it's, but the great thing about what we do, is like you just said, maybe 10 years ago you think something different? Well, the nice thing is, is that 15 years, 16 years,

after I really decided to make this my career, I feel like I've never been better or more capable or more willing to learn. Yeah. You know, I've still got, as long as, as long as I think, as long as we still have our mental faculty, then we can continue to improve at what we do. And you can't say that for a lot of other professions. You know, a lot of guys like,

I know that are professional athletes. Like, I would have a really difficult time navigating, peaking in my late 20s or early 30s. Yeah. Athletes have to do that all the time. Fucking hard. Like they're done. If you're not going to be an announcer, what are you going to do? Maybe be a coach. You're going to find, you're going to find something. But it's, you have to look. You have to keep. You have to look. But it's hard, like having a passion since you were a kid and being the best and getting to pro level, which is rare, and then all of a sudden you're done. And wait a minute, I have half my life left or more. What am I going to do with the rest of my life?

I'm glad that that's not my path, because I now know that when something like this opportunity that's coming up for me on Monday or opportunity X that I don't even know about when it presents itself, I'm ready and I get to take everything that I've learned over the past 15, 16 years, and I get to dump it into that. You know, going back to suits LA, when I say that that experience was probably the best single season of television that I've ever experienced, it's because of the previous 10, 11 seasons that I was the lead of something where I just, I just, I know what to do now. Like, I've had my, you have the experience. I've had my reps. Yeah.

I think for me, it's just, I'm lazy. I don't know if I'm lazy, but I, I look at, you're not lazy. I work hard at some things, but like honestly, when I hear about a job, I don't, if it's a one-hour drama filming in another city, I don't want any part of it unless it's like a role that works once a week. I'll consider it. The guy comes in, kills it, leaves. I don't want to take up eight and a half months a year of my life at my age now. So it just, so I look at the work. Like, I used to not care. And maybe that's whatever it is.

That's just the decision. I want to, I have a life that I want to explore and not be tied down too much. And I appreciate that. And that works for you. I think that the precise opposite thing has now worked for me because I've, I've seen that something on paper, oh yeah, no, no, no. It shoots, it shoots in Arizona and you get to work every Thursday. That sounds good on paper.

But like, you don't know. You don't know. Yeah. My wife stresses out sometimes, though, because she's like, you know, I'm worried, you know, you were in L.A. And that was amazing. So, you know, maybe getting something else that shoots in L.A. would be great. Or you could say, just remember that, honey. I did this for a year.

But now I might have to do something. That's right. Because there are parts of shooting at home where it's like, you get a Tuesday off. You're on location. I'm going to get a burger and take a nap. I'm going to sleep in, take a night. You know, wake up. Now you got two kids.

She's like, oh, you're off on a Tuesday? Great. School drop-off is at X-time. School of pickup is at X-time? We got two different drop-offs, two different pickups. But I also say to her, I'm like, listen, you know, there's no guarantee that I'm going to work in Los Angeles, but that doesn't mean that my agents are going to call me on a Wednesday

and I'm going to have to be in Manitoba for six months, on Thursday. This isn't the Army. I'm not drafted into things. Is that where it shoots, Manitoba, borderline? No, no, no. Moose-jaw, Saskatchewan, perhaps. Where does it film?

The film's just in and around Toronto. Oh, that's beautiful. That's where you're from. All right. This is shit talking with Stephen Amel, rapid fire. Raj asked, these are my patron. Patreon. Patreon.com slash incite you.

Thanks for the support. Give back to the show. We appreciate it. We use your help. Raj, tell me about a recent time you felt like the odds were stacked against you. Recent time, the gods were stacked against me. Not the gods. I didn't mean the odds.

The gods were, the gods. A recent time that the odds were stacked. I don't think to any degree. I've ever been in a really difficult spot like that. Well, maybe the odds are stacked up against you when you're up for a role and there's a lot of big heavy hitters against you. And maybe you felt like, the odds are against me that I'm going to get this, but then you get it. I try really hard not to think about that.

Like, I try really hard right now with some of the jobs that I'm looking at. Is that your control? Because it's completely out of my control. And I think just think back to there have been, you know, two really big open casting calls and I've gotten the jobs. Little Lisa, in your own words, what does self-worth mean? Self-worth means acknowledging your vulnerability. Like, I've had an excellent week. It was first week back after Christmas holidays.

I hit the gym really hard. I did this tape. I'm about to do another tape. But after you and I sit down today, it's Friday kind of midday, I'm going home. and eating a nice sandwich and taking a nap. And that's enough kids from school? Not today, actually.

And that is, that to me, that is acknowledging myself worth that I understand that not every day is the pursuit of some great goal or achievement. Some days are just for you, chilling out. Don G. If you could play any villain, who would it be? Why? Oh man, I would just continue to play my character in code eight, but just turn him into the biggest villain. What about DC or Marvel? Which character besides Arrow? What bad guy would you play? I mean, just because I don't want to duck the question, I still have a, I still have an action figure of General Zod in my office.

Really? I mean, this is my favorite from growing up. Who was the guy that played him? Oh, I forgot his name. I met him. Yes, is it Terrence Malick? Is that right? Taryn Stamp. Terrence Malk is a director. Terrence Malick's a director, yeah. Tren Stamped. Nick and Kayla, you've packed a care package for yourself

when you need to feel good vibes. What movie, treat, and personal comfort item are in it? Movie, treat, and personal comfort item. Movie treat and personal comfort. Yeah, you want to just sit there. Nice comfort movie. Let's go with the girl with the dragon tattoo.

We were just chatting about that movie last night. All right. I love that movie. What's your treat? A nice hearty sandwich. Ooh, like a turkey? Corn beef. Ooh, yep, strommie.

Brisket. Chicken parmesan, something like that. And a personal comfort item? Weighted blanket. Do those really help? You get anxiety still? No. You haven't had an anxiety text since my show?

No. I mean, I know. My brain still... Remembers it. My brain still remembers it. My brain still gets, you know, it's still running a million miles a minute but uh i just i got a few simple practices now that i do on a daily basis to just

kind of common laylani who were you currently in closest contact with from the aroverse and would you ever consider doing a rewatch podcast closest contact would probably be david ramsie just had him on oh really yeah yeah see him a see him a fair bit um and um we are and he's looking at directing a that he's talked to me about a few times. So he, I see Emily on a fairly regular basis. And,

I mean, Greg Berlanti doesn't, he wasn't part of the cast, but, but you're still close with them. Would you ever consider doing a rewatch podcast? 10 years ago, I would say no.

Now, I'd say that I don't really, I don't know that that interests me. But what happens when I get to like a certain, episode. I'm like, oh, this one fucking sucks. Well, look, first of all, you got somebody who knows what he's doing right over there. Okay.

He just says it sucks. Dude, there's people would shit. There's going to be a lot of feedback from this. People would love if you did it. What would we call it? Let's think of a name right now. Off the cuff. That's not it.

Green with envy. Oh, no. Jesus, Murphy. Something's going to pop into my head before. But you should, you should consider it because it'd be easy. We'll talk off the air. Linda M. What's most important to you right now?

now family family kids but both my kids are at a really fantastic age she's got to be seven but nine she's 12 no yeah she's 12 yeah maverick is 12 and uh Bowen is uh i'd say three and a half right because it's a big difference between you know just turn three vis-a-vis three and a half he's going to be four in may but they're just she just started her you know quote unquote big girl school that's six through 12. And that's, man, that school, I don't want to say the school, but has taught me so much about how to parent

and just really throwing a couple of new things into perspective. What's the most important thing about parenting, honestly? Letting your kids fail. They sat down with us and they said, your daughters are in sixth grade. They're going to fuck up. They're going to forget this. They're going to do that.

they're going to get embarrassed so they're going to tell a fib that fib is going to blow up into a big lie they're going to get over tired they're going to treat you poorly because they're comfortable and they're going to do all of these things that are going to agitate you and we implore you to let them because if you if you don't let them if you smooth if you smooth all of these things over then they'll never make it to the then they will never learn and we'll never learn and We as educators can't really get in and see what's actually going on. And much like that guy telling me only do things in the pursuit of a solution really impacted me, this just, I mean, it's not just that I don't want to let my kids fall. I want to catch them before they fall.

I want to secure their footing before they even. But also letting in them know it's okay to fail. A thousand percent. That's the key. Thousand percent. It's okay. Yeah. She's, you know, and so that's impacting the way that I'm, you know, dealing with my son,

who's very different, but three and a half, it's, it's interesting, interesting, interesting, interesting times. I love it. And, you know, I got, we have a tweenager. Fuck. It's, it's, it's a lot. And it's girl. But one of the, you know,

one of the you know one of the there's a great book that I read um called we've decided to go in a different direction by test Sanchez it's great it's it's great she's a casting director makes sense yeah and her husband max my buddy talks about painful favors painful favors and and as much as i uh as much as suits L.A. not going forward was painful. The past six, seven months of really, really, really being available as a dad and a husband. It means more to you than anything. Well, it means a lot because I never know. It's not going to be Winnipeg tomorrow, like I said. But I never know what I never know how long it's going to last. I know. You know, we got to, you know, got to put food on the table.

Got to continue my career. I'm in it for the long haul. So I don't know how long I have at home. and this uninterrupted time is a painful favor. I will say that based on my childhood, sure. These are the three things. Tell your child you love them. Okay. Tell your child you're proud of them.

And patience, patience, patience. Yeah. Those three things, you know, when you lose your shit quickly with a kid who's a little bit ADHD or ADHD, or you know you're not listening to them you're not taking the time you're not patient you're not nurturing them at the same time it's uh you don't really know the effect it has on them until they're older and that's when they start to see things in themselves that they're so and look we're not

perfect but you know i would just say that patience i think patience for me is probably the biggest patience patience with you know it's funny because i don't have a lot of patience can you take a second remember that you are that you are dealing with a developing brain like a developing person do you remember yourself at 12 and a half i was i was so mess i was an early a late bloomer same so i graduated when i was 17 but i should have had another year in school oh um but my grades were piss poor uh but i had to get uh this incentive grant that would get me into a Western Kentucky University and make it affordable. It wasn't an expensive college anyway.

My dad said, well, you can go to Western if you, but you have to, this one semester, my end of my junior year or senior year, I had to get a 3.0. Just that semester, there was some kind of thing. And I did it. And I worked really hard. But I think that my grades were poor because I never had someone to. really sit down and show me slowly and have patience with me and make it fun. And there are a few teachers along the way that did that. But, you know, a lot of kids, they can't, they just can't

focus. They can't. It's, it's, it's something that you can't just say, focus. That doesn't work. It doesn't work. It doesn't work. Will you stop doing that? Do this. Why are you? It doesn't work. love and nurturing and like making it feel, a kid feel smart. Well, I, but maybe they don't have the tools. You know, as a, as a parent, I'm not going to say that I ever took it for,

took it for granted, but it takes, it's different for everybody, you know, and for me, it's just been, you know, we talk about what do you, what's your definition of self-worth? Well, understanding vulnerability and taking time for myself. I also now just really, on a daily basis, try to try to look at my kids and not necessarily put myself into their shoes,

but just think about where they are, what they're going through, what's important for them. And then, and here's the important part for me, stop and think about how cool that is. Because I'm not one of those parents that thinks that their children do no wrong. I think, you know, our daughter is, she's very into swimming right now, competitive swimming, racing. I think that I've got a pretty reasonable assessment of how gifted she is or is not. And she's, she's quite, she's quite good. But just sitting down and thinking, man, I think my kids are, I think they're really cool. Like, I think, I think Maverick is a really cool, interesting, empathetic, thoughtful kid.

And if I can remember that, then we can avoid having a fight about what sort of bag she's going to take a fucking blanket to school in, which is actually something that happened yesterday morning. And I caught myself like, what a stupid thing to be arguing about at 6.55 a.m. So we stopped and I got her a macha to say sorry because I was sorry because I'm that way. And my son right now is like he is fascinated with sports and teams and scores because he is just figuring out how time works. Right. So we're driving back from the desert on Sunday night and he's sitting in the back seat and he's like, Dada, it's 802. It is 802.

Why is it 802? Because, buddy, it's 802. What comes next? You're just going to have to sit and wait. Dada, it's 803. You know what it makes a drive long? Your son counting out every fucking minute of the drive. But can you take a moment and go, but this is cool.

But he wants to talk to me. because I am now fully in patience, because I'm now fully in the spot where I go, I've got, we've got our daughter for like six and a half more years. And then she's out. Maybe she stays for a little bit, but we are past the midway point. Yeah.

Like if this is a round of golf, we are on the back nine with her. I love that. Yeah. This has been a real treat. I will say that I love that. that you how you talk about your kids when you know if you someone was to ask you about your kids because i think the first thing the kid in the mind is like yes my parents what's michael

you know how do you describe him oh he's a dummy so i think that's the first thing they'd probably say he's all over the place he's a dummy that that's what they would say yeah but i like to hear you speak so fondly of your and i think that's important too but i love having you here i you know just shooting the shit and being vulnerable, you know. And, uh, yeah, I just, I like to see you working. I like to see. I love that you're always open. You always come over. You always have a chat. Yeah, man. It's great. It really is. And I want you to send borderline to me a couple of your favorite episodes I want to watch. Okay. You're going to dig it. You're going to, I think, I think that people. I not want to be in the second season. Ah, listen, there's opportunity all

over the place. You're Canadian, right? No, but I know the anthem. great in French. No, but I also know, uh, I play hockey. Oh, that's true. You know what? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I play ice hockey. Yeah. I just pitched a show to Canada, Netflix Canada. Is that, does that really? Yeah. And I also did seven years on smallville in Canada, two years on, and pasture in Canada, a movie, two movies in Canada, another pilot in Canada. So I'm kind of a Canadian in close. Close. Close enough. Certainly as close as I mean, I'm, I'll fly in. Listen. I'm down. They can have an American actor.

I'm down. With second season. I'm not going to talk about the second season. All right. Don't. I want to hear all about everything. I want to see it. You're the best.

Thanks for you. All right. Steven, always love having you, man. Thanks for being so open and easy going. And, uh, you know, you tell it how it is. You, you know, he's, you got to give him that. He's just, uh, very forthcoming with things.

And I love that he talks about these things on the podcast and it makes it more interesting. Yeah. So very forthcoming. Yeah. Thanks, dude. All right. Now it's time for the top tier patron shoutouts. Patreon.com slash inside of you.

You get your name shouted out and so much more and join the community. I'll message you. Here we go. Here are the names. The top tiers and the how deep is your love tier, which is the tippity top tier. They're all in here. Nancy D. Little Lisa, Y.

Kiko, B. Rabe, the fourth, Jason W. Raj C. Stacey L. Jamal F. Janelle B. Mike L. Dan Cipromo, 99 more. Santiago M. Kendrick F. Belinda and Dave Hull. Brad D. Rad D. Radie, Ray, Hadada. Tab of the T. Tom N. T. T. Betsy. Betsy, hi. Betsy. I haven't heard from you in a long time. I hope you're okay. I'm thinking about you. Rian. Hi, R. R. Hi, Rian. C. Hi, R.

Jeremy C. Mr. Melski, Mr. Melsky, Eugene R. Monica T, Mel S, Eric, H, Amanda R. Kevin E. Jammin, J. Leanne J. Luna R. Jules M. Jessica B. Frank B. J. T. T. R. Randy S. Claudia. Rachel D. Nick W. Stephanie and Evan. Stefan. Charlene A. Don G. Jenny B. 76. N. J. Tracy.

N. Tracy. N. Tracy. N. Tracey. N. Tracey. Keith B. Heather and Greg. Ben, B. J. M. J. M. J. P.R. C. Sultan D. T. P. Brian B. T. Paul. I'll have some T. Paul. Gary F. Jackie J. Ritzel, R. Other brother, Daryl, other brother, Daryl, Ivan G. John A. Michaela. L.

I love you. Thank you for all the support. I can't say, I wish I could just talk about you forever. But the rest of everyone would be sort of just bored with me and just upset if I just carried on. He keeps talking about Sultan. How much he loves Sultan? Well, it's true. Anyway. Thank you. Thank you for all your support. And from the Hollywood Hills in Hollywood, California. I'm Michael Rosenbaum. I'm Ryan Taze. I'm here as well. I'm not shouting this time. No, you're not shouting. A little wave with the camera. We love you guys. I hope you enjoyed this interview. And please keep supporting us. Have a good week and be good to yourself. This isn't your average podcast. Do you like party? I do like a huge chug of tequila. The hollerhead whiskey bottle chug in front of Dana White. That was the first time we ever went to L.A. We somehow got into a bitty party. It's an Elon Musk house party. party look like.

My party's generally a very high production value. This is Full Send. I do want to do a lot more pranks. A bunch of different pranks. Join the party. Jack Doherty in the house. Feeling good, man.

What are we going to talk about with Will Smith? I don't know what you're going to say. Shout out to Phil Vaughn. It's been entertaining, dude. The Full Send podcast. Got the boys, grab the beers. Let's do it.

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