Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum - Steve Lukather

Episode Date: July 23, 2019

Steve Lukather (Toto, 5x Grammy Winner, The Gospel According to Luke) shares some legendary behind the scenes stories during his time playing with Toto and many other icons in the music industry like Michael Jackson, Paul McCartney, Van Halen, Quincy Jones, and more! Steve opens up about his childhood growing up with a young mother who exposed him to rock music early on, how he overcame an absolute tornado of life events to find sobriety , and just how much the industry has changed both technologically and critically. Thanks to HotelTonight for sponsoring today’s show. HotelTonight partners with the best hotels to help sell their unsold rooms, and more importantly, to help give you amazing deals on a wide range of cool top rated locations. Start scoring amazing deals by visiting hoteltonight.com or downloading their app today! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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tables, or join a live dealer game to feel the thrill of real-time action, all from the comfort of your own devices. Why settle for less when you can go for the gold at Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem call connects Ontario 1866531-260. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See Golden Nuggett Casino.com for details. Please play responsibly. You're listening to Inside of You with Michael Rosenbaum, Rob Hollis, that's H-O-L-Y-S-Z. You got it. Yeah. It's been a good year.

We've had our year anniversary now since we came on new, strong editing. So it's been about a year now. We thank you for listening. And for your constant support. I see people wearing hats inside of you hats or wristbands. And I'm like, oh, my gosh. What we really need is some inside-of-you tattoos, though. I don't know, man.

Don't do that guy. Get a tattoo, post it on social media, and Michael will bring you on the podcast. Jeez, don't say that. Don't say that. That's not true. I mean, who knows what? I mean, we might call you. If you get a tattoo, we might call you.

You guys work on getting us some listeners. And then I know, I, you know, I appreciate the URL on your arm. Apple.com slash inside of you. Don't listen to this idiot. He doesn't know what he talks of. Hey, we got a great show tonight or today. By the way, welling and I will be in Boston. Toronto for a signing in. Kristen, Tom Welling, and I will be in Toronto for signing in August, sometime in August. And the album left on the world's beautiful mess is coming out. So make sure you download that if you want and made some good music and worked really hard on it. That being said, we got some more great content today. Who's our guest today, my friend? Steve Lukather. He was one of the original members. He is one of the original members of Toto. He wrote songs like, turn your love around. He wrote the tubes. She's a beauty. He's worked with the, he worked on the, he worked on the.

On the microphone, the whole thriller album, the whole thriller album. He's listening to that. My dad loved that. Oh, Lionel Richie, running with the night, I think it was, or something. I mean, he does the guitar solo. He does, he's worked with everybody. He's studio musician. More than that.

But he does a lot of it. You know, he kind of gets a little annoyed because I think people can be haters on there and goes, oh, you know, this is what you do. He's like, sorry for being classically trained and sorry for being so versatile. This guy is one of the best guitarists I've ever seen. seen, heard. One of the great guys. If you've never heard of him, listen to this fascinating interview. He's got a fantastic book called The Gospel According to Luke. Your ADD is at full force in this episode. Is it? Why do you say that? Every time he mentions a song that he wrote,

you're like, let's pull us up. Let's listen to it. We even played a little guitar in it on the episode. He's, I love him. I've seen, I've seen him perform many times. And so much insight into the the inside of Steve. Let's get insight. Let's get insight of Steve Lukatha. This is Last Daughter of Krypton on Twitter, her rendition of Inside of You theme. It's my point of view.

You're only spent to Inside of You with Michael Ross and Bond. Man, look, how long have I known you? you know man that's a good question because i how long has it been we we met you met somebody else i think you met my kid no no no no we met at something you were doing with all these other 80s bands years ago and i came there and you we looked at each other and you're like hey dude like i watched the show i like i watched the show man and then i was like dude i'm a huge fan it threw me off when you had hairs i'm a huge fan of toto and that was just kind of like we

we hit it off you came over for a beer i came to see a concert it was like well what it's supposed to been long if i came over for a beer it was over 10 years ago it was i quit drinking 10 years ago it was over 10 years ago was when i first moved in this house which i moved 16 years then we had a lot of beers then i bet no you were you were pretty you were pretty chill you weren't like even i think you were at the end of all that shit whatever it's it's my past but it's still there you know well you just wrote some i was surprised because you're a real you seem like a real private guy like i don't know you I know you as in we text funny shit

We go out to dinner We talk shit But we don't sit here and go Hey man Tell me about growing up Something weird was going on When I was really young Really?

Weird things outside my window And my sister And I have weird memories And stuff Like what? I don't know maybe You do know I could see in your eyes

I don't know Man I have a morbid fascination With UFOs I'll put it to you that way Well I did too Did you see that Bob Lazare

In Air 15 When an aliens Isn't that a great documentary? I was in a bob when it hit in the 80s that that whole, it's a, it's a hobby. I'm not like obsessed or anything like that. I think you are a little bit. I think we all are. You all want to know what's out there.

Wait a minute. It's very curious. And every day there's more and more weird things they can't explain being disclosure. I mean, it doesn't make, I mean, mathematically, you know, there's got to be some stuff out there, you know. Absolutely. The theory of, you know, parallel universes and, you know, the Mandela effect and all that. Yeah. Yeah. Because of, you know, as soon as they hit the God particle, boom, we're supposed to all have shifted.

And that's why things are weird little teeny things like lines from a movie or even passages in the Bible have changed. Well, how can you remember? This isn't, this is a theory. I'm not specific. But, I mean, how could we think how? I just go down these, you know, I'm on the road so much, you know, reading books and doing, you know, sitting in a room by myself, I can only practice so much. And then I just want to read and amuse myself with non-musical things, you know, and I find these. find these fascinating little YouTubers that lead me down other wormholes. I always think of you as someone like, you know, a lot of people, you talk to actors,

they like talking about their careers. They'll talk about this, what they're doing. You're the one of those guys where I'm like, God, I hate to ask. I remember one time I asked you, I go, hey, play something. You're like, why don't you act something? Well.

But it's kind of true. You know, what if you're a doctor? You go over, every time you go to somebody's pad, man, it's like they want to show you the, you know, the anal fissure that's growing. What's this, Doc? It's like, I'm off right now. I've got this boil on my left testicle,

and I just, would you have a look for me? I know we're going to have dinner soon, but. Steve, you have to be on is my point, you know what I mean? It's true, but I mean, as a, by the way, Steve Lucas, I think you for allowing me to be inside of you today. This is really, this is very, this is very, you're going to have to take me to dinner first. Well, I'll do that.

And it caused me to go off the wagon and feed me full of all sorts of mind-altering things that I could never remember anything, any part of it. Listen, you are, for people that don't know you, and look, my fan base, who knows? When people listen to this show... They're gonna go, who the hell is that guy? Well, that's why I want to talk to you as a fly on the wall.

More as like, because I know some stuff. I've been, look, your book, you didn't want to write a book forever. No, I was not looking to do that. What happened was they, I got a call to do a Q&A at the Grammy Museum, not unlike James Lipton, you know what I mean?

Scott Goldman, the head, one of the heads of the Grammys down there, really sweet guy, invited me down to do this. I'm like, really, okay. And it's like, you know, 300 people stuffed into a room. I didn't think anybody was going to show up. I'm like, me, well, who the hell? Who cares?

It was packed. And so he did one of those things. He researched my career, and I had no idea what questions he was going to ask. He'd mentioned an artist's name, somebody I worked with. And I have stories about everybody. So I just started telling stories and doing impressions or whatever the hell I was doing. I had everybody screaming laughing. And my agents from WME came out to me and said, you have to write a book.

I go, oh, geez, you know. Then it's sort of somebody contacted me, and it sort of happened organically like that. And I said, I led a very colorful life. I'm not so sure I should talk about all of it. You know what I mean? I don't want to hurt any innocent people. But let me tell you when I started, when I read the four, because you just sent me the book, and I'm looking at it right now, the gospel according to Luke, Steve Lukatherer with Paul.

My nickname is Luke because there was like 40 steves around when I was a kid. That's why. Right. Luke, it makes sense. Right. You've done some crazy shit in your life. And that's what this book is. Like you even said,

this isn't another book where I'm going to tell you about all I do is do drugs and you're going to hear all these stories about me fucking tons of people. Well, it's kind of a cliche. Don't you think it's kind of a cliche? And that's what you say.

It's like, you know, the clawing your way to the, you know, to getting that chance and you have a hit record and then everything's great and then all in and then trouble,

you know, it's in. But you know what? The women, the drugs, the booze, the decadence, the craziness. It's your name here at this point. at this point you know i mean some of us were worse than others uh some people were just way on

another planet for me you know i was kind of crazy but i mean other people that were really crazy i mean look you at seven years old your dad gave you like what was a keyboard or some shit no i mean i i saw the beatles on the ed sullivan show and that was it i wanted to be george harrison's i got a guitar and copy of meet the beetles and you were playing from seven seven on well the first year was a struggle with trying to make something noise out of the thing because it was a painful guitar which i now lamp in my guest bedroom is that true my parents gave it to me in my 21st birthday no this is like a mother of toilet seat guitar i mean it was a piece of crap four bucks or something a thrifty strings are four feet off the neck and i was trying to make it why doesn't it sound like the beetles

you know i'm an innocent little kid right you know and then the neighbor kids uh had a band and that was an eye over wow there's a real electric guitars and stuff so were those the guys that you ended up going to high school with no no no they were older guys and i probably never seen since You know, the one summer they rehearsed in a garage, they sat outside and they let me play the Rickenbocker guitar like George Harrison. It was really thrilling for me. And you didn't get really interested in music, really, really heavily till high school? No.

I was obsessed from day one. From day one. I was in a band, my first band at 9, my first money-making band in 11. How much money are you making? What are you playing? Is it a cover band? 20 bucks a weekend, you know, which would be like making 200 bucks a weekend now. I had a three-piece band.

We played really good. We played a whole bunch of songs in the era. Everything, you know, from Beatles, Cream, Edrics. How old are you? How many, 11-year-olds do that? There weren't any then. Now it's like, you know, that's considered old. You got on YouTube, everybody's playing.

You have to pop out, you know, as a fetus with a little mini strad on playing like Stevie Ray Vaughn or shredding like the fastest guitar player in the world at two years old. Were you already getting like that? It's crazy, but there wasn't anybody like that then. Remember, I was living in real time. The Beatles are just some bands or everybody wanted to be in a band. but nobody my age wanted to be in a band. So I was always throwing in with older people,

which is how trouble started in my life. You put a little kid in a room with guys like 10 to 20 years old. Later in life as a session musician, but as a kid, I was always guys, you know, three, four years older than me. And that's a big difference when you're nine and everybody else's, you know, pre-teens or teenagers. Were you smoking pot at 11?

No. Were you doing any drugs like in your teens, early teens? No, no. Oh, no, yeah, I did that in my early teens, sure. you know, Boones Farm, Strawberry Hill Boone's Farm, dude. Cheap weed. You don't know what this is, Rob.

Rob's 29, he has a kid. You know, he doesn't know this. No, but the first time I spoke weed, I got way too high. Or the first time I got high on weed, I tried it a bunch of times. Nothing happened. First time I got really,

I got way too high, and then I didn't touch it again until I was like 20. Really? I experimented with some other stuff, but, you know, it was really, and that turned into a boozer at a young age.

Really? Already booze. I'm like, well, everybody else to be taking acid and say, it was scary stuff to me. And we were young. Were your parents pretty liberal? Were they liberal?

Did they just not? They just like to go do your thing? No, innocent, I think. They didn't see it. They didn't, you know, they understand. We were the first generation that went for it with all that crazy set. I mean, before it was just booze for the parents, you know, going back generations, the right of passage was to go get drunk or whatever.

We sort of took it to another level. There was a whole drug, you know, the hippies and all that, and the music was ours. Were your parents liberal, though? Were they conservative? didn't really talk about it much man you know they just like you know don't talk politics or religion with the neighbors and you know for two weeks a year we'd get a little vibe going in the neighborhood and then it would go away not like today where it's you're pummeled every two seconds with oh my god can it get any worse and it does you know right regardless of which side you're on it's crazy

everywhere and you were listening to like hendricks and all that shit yeah everything was in real time whatever knew whatever was new i was into and my mom was really young see she was a team teenager when she was pregnant with me, 19 years old. So she would listen to rock and roll in the top 40 radio, so it's because she was still young. I was just mesmerized by it when my parents thought it was rather amusing and cute, but

didn't think I was going to go at the distance. I mean, do you think of yourself sort of like, because, you know, I mean, I think musicians are, you meet, they can be snobs in terms of like what they like, because you're a rock and roller, you rock. I'm a musician, man. I'm not a snob at all. Do you like pop shit? Do you like, I mean, what do you,

what do you like the people? Wait a second, man, I'm the least musical snob you've ever heard. I love all sorts of music. Like why? What's the, what's the music that people wouldn't believe that you listen to? There isn't any music that I wouldn't listen to. You listen to Joni Mitchell? I love Johnny Mitchell. I had an honor of working with her. Carol King? Tapestry. It's part of DNA, man. Well, the greatest songwriters of all time. Go ahead, Rob. Is there people you're trying to pick that would surprise that he listens to? I know, I know. It's more like Taylor Swift or Justin Bieber. You know, I gotta be okay. You know, I've heard a couple of the records, but it's just out of my wheelhouse.

It's not that I think it's bad. It's just that it's, it's funny to tell you by the time you're 30 years old, that's really all the new music you're going to be interested in. And you'll listen to new stuff, but you'll always go back to your youthful music. And that's every generation. That's what I do. Every generation is like, you know, my older kids, like they're 90s kids. So that's there. So they go back to, Trev goes back to like, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh,

Pearl Jam, Nirvana, Soundgarden. Sure. I liked all that stuff. You probably know those guys. Some. Some. I actually met the bass player in Nirvana, Chris, on a Paul Allen's boat. Who's Paul Allen?

Co-founder of Microsoft. Oh, yeah, that Paul Allen. Did you know that, Rob? No. He was a sweet man. God bless him. I got invited on that cruise, but I ended up playing it privately with Ringo. And we were there, and he was there.

That's why I met this guy. It was a trip. He was such a nice guy. Chris was a great cat. And he told me he played accordion and he started, and I thought he was taking the piss out of me. So I said, really, man. So like, how do you?

You know, I've always been fascinated with that, playing that instrument. I know everybody gives it a bad name, you know. But there's some badass accordion players. You listen to polka. Some of these cats can rip, man. Rip it. That's the thing with you.

You love musicians. You love every instrument. Anybody that's a virtuoso in any style of music. you catches my eye because I know the time, effort, and years and... Can you play any kind of music? I can bullshit my way through anything. You could bullshit your way through any kind of music.

And I underline bullshit because there are people that own a certain style of music. I go, yeah, I can kind of fake my way through if these guys own it. There's a big difference. Right. But what is the most comfortable you feel on stage? What kind of music you're playing?

I don't know. You've heard my stuff. You know, that's what comes out when I don't think about it too much. Rock and roll blues, little jazz. I started out with rock and roll guy. You know, I studied music when I was 14. From 7 to 14, I played by ear and just rock, basically rock top 40 of the time,

which if you really go back and Google the top 40 of, say, 1968 when I was 11 in my band, and see, the song was every song as a classic by today's standards. And that was just the top 40 that week. So, I mean, I got to, I'm going to be a musical snob and say that I feel like I was lucky enough to grow in the, grow up in the best time of rock music ever will ever be because everything was brand new is anything brand new anymore no i mean is there anything in life maybe another planet meaning another somebody from another planet that would be something completely wow but what was the last time you went wow i don't say wow something is brand i'm okay not the word i don't say wow but rob i think

says wow rob rob likes a lot of current music and he goes wow what wow is you rob i don't say well i don't say About current music? I don't know. I mean... But what's your favorite music, man? I mean, I like, like local natives, radio head, father John Misty. Yeah, Readerhead, that's what, no, that's considered classic rock, right? That's considered class of the 90s.

I love, you know, the record I love, though, there's OK computers. Yeah, that was a genius record. That reminds me of 20 years ago, man, in London. I was staying and working in the UK at the time. Now, let me ask you, so this book kind of takes you on a journey throughout your life, right? I mean, how many do that? It's a broad stroke, man. I mean, there was 400 pages plus that hit the floor because nobody wants to buy 700-page book on me.

They're probably going, who the heck is this guy? You know, it's a cute title. Somebody might pick up the book and go, who the heck is this guy and maybe get sucked in? Who knows? Inside of you is brought to you by Quince. I love Quince, Ryan. I've told you this before. I got this awesome $60 cashmere sweater.

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I wanted you on the show because I think people should know you that don't know you because I think you are truly one of the legends of rock and roll. You are. I know you're humble. I know you sit there and go fuck this, whatever. But people, you have worked with everybody. I just know where all the bodies are buried. That's right. That's true.

No, but you're really, you're so humble. I see after a concert at the Greek and how you treat people and how you hug people and you're just a dude and maybe because you've been through it maybe in the even in the forward you say what an asshole maybe I would have been if I heard anybody's feelings I'm sorry because you involved as a person you know nobody's mr. happiness all day long I'll give you great I'm going to give you a great example of this a lot of people when they meet somebody that they like or somebody's famous or whatever whatever it is sports actors musicians whatever that is people don't realize that everybody

has real life. You know what I mean? Like an example is on our very first tour, we're playing, yeah, Toyota tour. In 1970, we were playing Massey Hall in Canada. Our original bassist for David Huggott had just done Brian Adams' first album, Cuts Like a Knife, right? So he came to the show, introduced himself, we're all fans of the guy, you know, but at the time, he was just breaking as an artist, and he came to the show, and he met David Page. And David apparently blew him off. Like, and... You're a lead singer. Well, you know, 20 years later, I talked to

Brian on the telephone by accident we were mutual friends and he said yeah man he goes you know you guys were cool and all that but like what's up with page man what was it what kind of an attitude is that I go what are you talking about david's like the nicest man he is ever on planet earth I mean ever I mean never a harsh word I mean this is the nicest man I've ever known and this was something that happened years ago yeah and this was like 20 carried around for 20 years page and I go what night was that messy hall I go you know Brian um Dave's mom Dave came off the stage and found out his mother died. So he probably wasn't in the mood to be high.

Isn't that something? People don't know what someone's going through. David, he was just walking down the hallway and Brian goes, hey, man. And David's like probably just went like, not now. Brian thought he blew him off without an explanation. You know, sometimes, you know, you're a famous guy. People come up on the street and sometimes you could be in the middle of crisis on the phone with family or something. You're like, hey, hey, not now.

And then you're immediately on the internet. You're an asshole. It doesn't mean anything. I've seen the new one now. I've seen cats, you know, and I don't look. This is like, I really don't. I have my strength because, like, don't look at the stuff. It's like cutting yourself.

But, you know, the comment section in anything or, you know, any message board or something for guys like guys is bad news, you know. Brian, I carried that with him for all these years. And I said to Brian, I said, man, Dave's mom died that night. And he's like, oh, man, I go, he's a big fan ears, Brian. You should work with him. He's one of the best musicians I've ever been with in my life.

And Brian, calling him on the phone. and flew him over France and he cut the track with mutton him what's it uh he's in the vid Dave's in the video he's in the big Brian and other buddies please release me or please believe me right I'm sorry guys I'm sorry Brian I'm all that who are who are you people

you've worked with millions of songs how could you remember everything you worked with Lionel Richie I did I've worked with Lionel Richie a bunch of times but I did the famously probably the solo and running with the night which I was just warming up can you bring that up You got to play that, Rob? And I go, you know, he goes, here, we got a track for you, do a solo on.

I go, what keys is it? He goes, hey, I go, we'll run the track. Let me just warm up and see what it's about. And I play it all over it. At the end of the take, he goes, that's it. I go, that's it. I was just warming up what are you talking about. He goes, it's done.

You're done? I go, stop. I go, I played way too much. And he goes, no, I love it. It's great. You're out of here. I was out of there in 10 minutes session. How much would they pay you for a session like that?

I don't know, a couple grand. I mean, that was, yeah, that was a couple grand or something like that. It's the chorus. It's the lead guitar towards the end, right? The bridge. Well, the whole song. The whole song, that's a big, running with the bhaer in there. That was like a zero take because I didn't even know I was being recorded.

If you don't know this song, then you probably should have. It's a old one, you know, it's a classic. You know, I got to play some cool stuff with some great people. Hang on, let me hear just. When's the last time you heard this song? A long time. really long times that I heard this.

That's Carlos Rios on there playing the rhythm guitar. He's a great guitar. Yeah, that's it. We got about 15 seconds of each song. Yeah,

that's right, because you don't have to pay the ass cat, you cheap motherfuckers. Well, we don't... You know, you've already devalued us so badly

that we all of us have to spend our lives on the road now because you can't make a dime on record. Can't make a dime on records. A million streams, $6,000 gross

for everybody. So why would a music show? Anybody ever involved in the song? Then why would a musician ever put his music on Spotify? Because tell me where the local record store is besides Amoeba. Just put it on iTunes. If they want the song, they pay... iTunes takes 30% off the top, man.

Great. What's 30% of a dollar of their downloads? 70% you make. It's the same equation. It's just they take more percentage off the top. No, no, no. You don't get 70 cents to every dollar on Spotify. If you're...

Well, no, nobody does. If you're a classic rock act that signed a record in the label, I mean, I went and renegotiated a 50% deal for us for all digital, but Spotify wasn't really big then. So this thing's kind of taken over. It's Napster. It's life's, it's the world's radio station, record store, download. It's the only game in town.

And there's nothing to fight. We can't fight it. It just is. So what's going to happen, sadly, is people going to stop making albums? Don't make a track. You'll cut a tune. I mean, you're assuming you're a... Like an album, right?

Well, no, you're assuming people have the time to sit down for 45 minutes and listen to your music, you know, without interruption like we did was kids. Nobody would do that. Not one person that's young will do that now. But people had no choice then, which was great. They had to buy an album to listen to a song. But music was everything for us. We didn't have, you know, cell phones and computers games. It was like we either played the music or listened to it.

We were all shitty at sports. We weren't like you. We were out. Look at me. I had neck surgery. And, yeah, because you're constantly putting yourself in arms away. But you suffer, too. You have, we just talked about this before.

Well, yeah, but I was in a tour bus accident doing my job. Well, a tour bus accident, but you hold guitars your whole life. You're always, you probably have a lot of shit going on with you. When I, after the accident, I had to take pain meds for a while because I was on the road. So I had to get off that stuff. Where are you taking? I take Norcos from my neck. It kind of makes you a little cloudy, but it does make you feel good.

If you, for the first week, it does. And then after a while, you get used to it. And then your stomach starts going, hey, man. And that's bad, bro. That's bad. So, I mean, you know, I was under doctor's care. I didn't, like, go out in the street and do this. I mean, I was like, you know, you got to do this.

I had to finish a tour. I had no choice. Yeah. Well, we'd jump the gun. But, you know, in truth, I mean, that drug's alive. And any marijuana products, the CBD bombs are absolutely essential to my life. All right. And not, and, you know, and you have something.

And it actually helped. Honest hemp. It did. I just gave you some of this. I know, and both my right shoulder went because I was leaning on that for a couple of years because my left shoulder was toast. Finally, it gave out, so this one hurts more than the left one. No, no, well, maybe in a minute.

Just put it on. But, you know, the other thing was, you know, if I do take the indigo muscle relaxer as opposed to the head high, because that, I can't, I don't want to be. Can't function. I don't want to be like, you know, Snoop Dog 24 hours a day, as much as I love him. Who doesn't love Snoop Dog? that's a guy that you want to hang out with well he's so high he's in another planet that you just can't be on that planet with him he's like the hip well he's like you know

when we were young was miles davis or billy gibbons who's like these are the two hippest people i've ever you know been around they look cool they the way they cared they talk the way they care their music is cool everything about they dress cool yo steve grab that CBD marijuana more for me yeah you know what you think rob that's great thanks that's pretty Listen, we skipped over something. We're not paying you ass cap either. Kiss my ass cap. Listen, in the book, I know we go over stuff,

but like a lot of people don't know. How many people get together with someone in high school and stay with them for their whole life? A band. You guys met at a high school in Burbank? No, it was actually a Sherman Oaks, Grand High School in the Valley, you know, 73, 74.

And these guys were older than you? No, I met Steve Piccaro. He was in the same grade as me, me and my buddy, Michael Landau. famous guitar player, who we were playing with together and been friends since we were 12 years old. But we went to Grant High School and we heard about this guy, Steve Piccaro, had this killer band. His brother was in Steely Dan, blah, blah, blah, blah. Jeff was in Steely Dan when we were in high school. Then you Mike was playing with Seals and Crofts at the time. He was a music family.

And David Page was there as well. Page was, Paige and Jeff were best friends. And they were working with, Jeff would work with Steely Dan, and he worked with Seals and Crofts. How old was he when he's working with these guys? he at the time was probably about 18 we were 15 16 so he'd have been 18 19 him and david this is ridiculous i was shitting my pants i had no hair in my balls at that age and you guys are all playing together and he's playing with steely dan and like this is an anomaly this shit doesn't happen well this you know we didn't play sports bro we were the geeks to practice our instruments and you guys i mean you know we it wasn't like really super cool to be a musician but you all were so good at what you did that's rare rock music music was still rebellious. Now everybody's mother and grandmother listened to rock and roll, so it doesn't have the cultural impact

that it did to my generation. Who watched the Beatles like aliens landed from the planet Zolar or something like that, you know, and then carried it every day exponentially in real time to present day musically. Did you think you were trying to, in the beginning, trying to emulate some bands that you liked?

Do you think people have a prevention of doing that? I just wanted to make noise on this guitar that sounded like something that resembled what I heard on record or radio. And at this time, you knew all the chords. No, I mean, I was a sponge. I mean, I was struggling with it for a while. Nobody just picks it up and goes.

But if you read the book, you'll hear the funny story about my grandmother, who was pretty new agey for late 50s, you know, in the late 50s. That goes to show how freaking old I am. My mother was 19, pregnant. And one of my mom, my grandmother's, my mom's mom, that grandmother, has these, like, psychic friends over, which is considered super taboo at the time, you know. And one of them put her hand on my mom's belly

and said, oh, it's a boy. I hear a lot of music, a musician. Small dick. He's going to be a musician. Small dick, yeah. You throw it at you. Come on, man. You know, small dick jokes are like fart jokes.

They're always funny, even as tired as they. You send them to me all the time. Yeah. I get them from you when you're playing over in Australia. Well, my other theory is. you know, I never had to really grow up. I never, I, most people, they're an adolescent and you're always in every, all adolescents from ages 12 to 18 or idiots, pretty much, right?

Whatever you're into, but see that, then they go to college, you have to grow up, and then you're going to get a job and get married and do the whole thing. I just skated right through that part where you had to grow up and get it together, and I went right on the road to present day. So my sense of humor sort of stayed about 16, 17. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, let me ask you, so when was it? where all the guys

because they asked you to join a band let's come in with... Well, we had a high school band. Dave and Jeff had a high school band and Steve McCarrow took over the high school band

and me and Mike joined that with our buddy John Pierce from Huey's band. He was my first childhood friend ever in life. Huey Lewis? Yeah.

Who was he in Huey? John Pierce, bass player. Wow. That's how totally we get. Yeah, was all you guys. Steve McAul, Carl was begging and me and then Jeff and David

would come down and play with us. And we had some great singers and you started and you started, you started noticing. over the valley where people going these guys are fucking good well yeah I mean there's no DJs back then it was like they wanted real live music and they wanted people

who could make it sound like the record and we could do that we were basically a steely tribute band in high school we did all sorts of weird music we didn't just do top 40 music well who said hey let's do our own shit who said let's come up well that was later I mean after you know when Dave and Jeff did the boss gag silk degrees record which was huge with low down and Lido and all this pitch

wrote those songs with boss and Jesus Jeff played and then Steve McCall and I joined the tour because we were just out of high school Steve was coming from Gary Wright and I was just down the school sang the famous song a couple of them Yeah he did that tour

What was the song? Dream Weaver, you know Dreamweaver Love is alive and all that stuff When those records You're love it actually came out Steve was out of left school to play Moog Base with a live with Gary Wright

Did the Frampton, yes tour The stadiums and all He was 17 at the time Yeah so it's right from there for balls I joined Boz band halfway through the Boz tour, Sony, or what was then Columbia Records, heard that Dave and Jeff were putting a band together, and we were going to be in it, and they offered us the big deal without hearing a note. That was TOTO.

And that was the first album. We did four demos, which ended up, none of the songs ended up on the first album. They ended up on this Total 20 record, and we did some re-recorded us for a couple things. And what year is this? 79? 76, 77. June 977 was the first time I played on a track with Jeff and Dave I remember the day because when I did the book I did the research

and I had all my old date books I've kept every year at a glance date books since 1974 did you ever when you go back did you ever have tear up and like an emotional right in this book there are people that aren't here anymore way too many a lot of people I've lost a lot of your close friends 74 people 75 people the last two years two of my best friends. A lot of musical colleagues, a lot of family, a lot of old friends and people just get sick, man. I'm not the age now where, you know, it's not just about having a cold or sore throat anymore, man. Now as you hear the word procedure, sphincter tightening words, like procedure and tests, you'll have to come in and we'll have to have a look at that. I'm going to take this off

you and send it away. No, Mr. Lugar, no, I was just at my, um, I'm so paranoid. I go to the doctor every two months, and I'm as healthy as I am, though. I mean, I did beat up the frame. You look, at how old are you? I'm 61. I'll be five months.

I'll be 62. Oh, Oh, man. Oh, how did that happen? You're all right. You're all right. I used to be the youngest guy in the room. I don't know what happened.

But, you know, you're right. Because I remember, like, a couple concerts. What's amazing to me is you don't, you're one of those guys who don't forget. You don't forget those people in your life that touch you because you're playing at the Greek, I think, or the Hollywood Bowl or something. And you get on. stage and you say you start talking about Jeff

Piccaro and you start talking about him and I feel like and Mike and I'm looking at you and I'm like it feels like it just happened like the way you're emoting like you know I'll put it to you really simply and anybody that's ever lost anybody that they love

which is probably everybody that loss you know you learn to accept it but there's always going to be a hole where that person needs to be and as you get older that whole that whole the holes are more, and that's why older people sometimes look sad because their friends are all gone.

That's the being, I think it's weird now that some of my friends are dropping. I don't mean to throw that away. You know, they're passing away. But imagine being 80 years old, looking around the room going, am I the last man's Dan? Aging's not for the faint of heart. I mean, it's just, you know what I mean? And, you know, I know people that are 80 years old.

I mean, Jesus, Ringo's 79 in a month. Jesus. I just, you know, and I adore that man, you know, and he's as healthy as you can be. He can see 100. I wouldn't be surprised. I put money on the way he lives, the way he's in blacks, and he's just his whole, you know, the way he lives his life. It's an inspiration, actually. Yeah, he just keeps going.

I don't know how he does it because I feel sometimes I'm like almost 47. I'm like, I can't, I don't want to take a weekend trip to fucking Orlando. You know, you're an actor. I'm a musician. I mean, I'm never going to stop playing. You know, people who say, when are you going to retire? We're retire and do what? Watch TV, scratch my nutsack.

You'll play till the very end. Well, what else am I supposed to do? There's a guitar right there. I think, I think the touring would slow down. I mean, I'm doing a lot of it now because that's how we do. I think I'd always want to go out and play live. I think what I'd do is probably just trim it back to like, you know, they always see, when I get older, maybe I might want to live in Italy overlooking the ocean, you know,

change of life just completely go left field when my little kids get older how many have four i have four i've two grown wonderful kids Tina 34 living in Vegas married wonderful your granddad yeah i could i could do that i'm kind of hoping that's that's one of the things i've yet to experience in this life listen man when it's my time i can't be mad at anybody i've gotten the i've had the most amazing life like i put like three four lives into this one you know some of It was a little dark and weird, but most of it was great. Do you get anxiety? Yeah, terribly.

Do you get anxiety before you go on stage? Well, I didn't used to, but when I stopped drinking, I found out that that helped quelled the anxiety. When you say drinking before you go on stage. I was a shit-faced, but... Would you have three or four beers? No, through the course of the evening, you know, it got bad. And I had some really shameful shows. Shameful shows where you can't even play?

Well, just played sloppy and shrews. shitty and then noticeably. Thanks to the miracles of YouTube I get to relive some myself, watching myself fall down the stairs and compound fractures and teeth missing and eyeballs out. You could watch that on YouTube.

Well, metaphorically speaking, you know what I mean? I just, I know I was sick. I was sick. I fucked up. I'm sorry. I mean, I got off the track, man. But I'm back on the track and I have been for 10 years. But there was a dark period. There was a good decade in there that was, I

just was so unhappy with everything in my life and it's hard to explain. I just was so... I was trying to put a fire out and drown something that I was... What was it? That I couldn't... It was my personal life.

It was everything in my personal life. But what was causing that? Well, like... Well, you know, my mother was dying. My marriage was dying, and I was having a baby, which surprised me. My band was in shambles.

You know, we were falling apart. Were you fighting all the time? It was more like... You know, Bobby wasn't singing. It was terrible at the time. Poor guy. He was struggling. And I was just going.

And this is, I'm looking around the stage, where are my original high school brothers? Great band we had. Incredible player. All my friends, love them all. But the original thing, you know, where are my high school brothers? They were all gone.

And I realized that I just was in a bad place in my life and I had to pull the plug because I was hurting myself and hurting people around me and embarrassing myself as a musician. Not all the time, but I had some bad nights, you know, and those are the ones that get all the attention. And what year, so you're talking about when you quit,

I don't want to put everybody on it, you know what I mean? I just, you know, I just assume forget it. Some people on the Internet, you go, you know, I have my sister go, hey, man, you take that down. You're kicking a man when he's down. And they go, no, man, I got too many hits. I'm making money off and fuck him. They don't care about me.

They don't care about anybody. I'm not the only one. There's other guys from my generation who went off the railers for a while. Many. You know, funny, we all quit about the same time. And they're all my friends and they're all famous people that you know. Sure. that had a reputation of being the wild boys drinking and carousing and all the rest of it, you know.

And it was fun for a minute, but then it became silly. We got a little older and it wasn't funny. It was sort of like, oh, my God, really? This guy's still at it, you know? Were you ever at the moment where you're like, I don't even want to be here? I want to drive my car off a fucking cliff. Yeah, I've been, I would never do it because I have children. But, I mean, you know, you get to a point where he bullied, you know, I was bullied my whole life since I was a little...

Bullied? Yeah, just bullied by the press, bullied by people. I was always on the defensive because everybody was beating us up so at time. I just assumed everybody was coming at me all the time. Yeah. Bad reviews, you know. See, this is what pissing me up. People beating you up and then I get older and then there's the Internet kicks in, you know?

Yeah. Where it's not just one critic in every town. Everybody's a critic. Well, here's what I'm a playing field, you know? Steve, I look at this book and what I gather, too, from this book is how much I can see that hurts you where it's like, look, you say. Whoa, whoa, but let me, let me book in that with. I've also had the best career ever. I'm not complaining.

I'm not going, oh, whoa, it's me. Oh, poor little Steve. No, no, no, no. No, no. I'm just saying, historically, anybody would go, no, these guys got beat up real bad. Right, but what bothers me, when I read this and what bothers you... I don't care anymore, but it's...

But hang on, but you were trained musicians. You were studio musicians who knew how to play music who could play with anybody who could walk in and play whatever anybody want. And you were getting put down. because you were that good. That's essentially what it is. I was working on the cheap trick record, Dream Police. And bunny goes to me, goes, guys aren't a real band.

And I go, what are you talking about? He said, Toto's not a real band. Yeah, I go, when we went to high school together. I don't know what's more real of a band we could be. Hell, you're all studio guys. Like, people throw that around like it's a bad thing. Like anybody could do that. It's like, I don't think so, man.

It was a different skill set. We didn't just sit there and read dots on a paper and read music that was already written for us. We'd get a sketch with a bunch of chord symbols on it. They'd count off the song. No rehearsal. No idea what we were going to do that day. No idea what style we were going to play.

Who we were going to play with. Sometimes we didn't even know who the artist was or anything. So we had to be ready for anything. We had to create and arrange these parts on the spot. Example. Like, okay, example, but okay. Quick examples. Boom, boom.

Let's hear it. Mike McDonald, keep forgetting. Take two. That's the record. Take two is the record. Yeah. Take one. Take one.

I'm not in love anymore Michael was when we got there Michael was we're going to cut this song right now and he starts playing the roads and singing the song and then Jeff Piccaro starts

playing that group and I believe Louis Johnson played bass and we were just vamping on the intro and then I came up I started playing that first take

that wasn't written none of this part was written and then everybody's going yeah yeah it was Teddy Templeman was producing the guy did Van Halen, and I believe Lenny Warnaker, another famous producer. I'll play that. And then Michael's, you know, then we started playing it, and then we figured out a couple

chords. What's that part? And then figured out a little part, and then they cut it, and we got the second take was it. Just like that. Lots of stuff like that. And do they pay your agents, or they just give you a lot of cash in that? No, things we, you know, by today's standards, we'd get songwriters for that.

But not back then. It was just considered arranged. They'd hire the best studio guys to bring all of their ideas for arrangements. which is now called songwriting now back then it was just adding flair to a song that had simple cores adding hooky parts and stuff little things that ear candy that's what we got hired to do were you excited we did that every day for you know 25 times a week and you became friends with michael mcdonald pretty much after that because well we knew michael in school i didn't know him because he was the steely dan with jeff right before the duby brothers before any of his

success well at one point um he was asked to be singer in our band You just joined the Dubies. Could you imagine? It would have been a much different band. I bless the rains down in Africa. It would have been, it could happen. Well, he's done that. We've toured together.

I mean, we're, dear friend. Well, you wrote a song. I adore Michael and his wife Amy so much. You wrote, as soon as my heart stops. And he's back up there. He's in the video. dude yeah dude i mean you guys worked a lot all right so give me another session another cool set people love this shit and rob's gonna play there's a little lick of it another session you just

walked in and boom they were all like that i mean we were expected to perform instant no rehearsal you just went in there and did it no idea how does someone not respect someone who could do that this is before the machines came in you know once people started the machines came in then people could make demos at home then it became the horror of beat the demo or you know that doesn't sound like the demo man can just play the demo again can you get that see that way you're playing that part and it's like demo idas was the worst thing in the world it was much

easier to do it when there was just a guy playing a guitar or piano go here's my song when they start bringing in completely produced demos and go why don't you just use that if you like it so much but the quality wasn't quite there and now with pro tools you can there's no such thing as a demo you get a vibe on there and you just

start overdubbing on it and becomes the record against that quality so there's a lot of pluses and minuses on the hand it's too easy you can me you know you could take your dog barking and turn them into a maria carry record you know what i mean it there's a lot of tricks of the trade that's right the richest guy in town now is the guys that do the pro tools editing for vocals here tune this vocal tune this so you know you had none of that we had none of that you can't even know we had to play hey the beetles cut their first album in two side one side two thanks next all those great phil spectre's records you know

you lost that love and feeling cut on friday on the radio monday that was the record when they said, let's hear that back. That's the record. So, I mean, now you've got a hundred and billion tracks. What's the most magical moment where you guys are laying down a song and just magic came out

and you hit it right away and you're like, this is fucking a gold. There was a lot of moments like that, actually, but one that sticks out is Rosanna. That just really fell into place. It was like, that was another take two. Take two? You had rehearsed it a lot.

No, we'd never rehearsed the song until the day we cut it. We never rehearsed our record. We just show up, go, who's got a tongue? that was how we made all the first that's how you made your albums the first 10 records were like that everybody wrote songs and stuff like that

David was the primary songwriter at first he was so good we just didn't want to talk but he would encourage us come on guys start bringing some stuff in and he'd hear us play into the piano on a break or something like that or you know he'd go I love that finish that you know what I mean so David was really nurturing

to all of us and J including Jeff and you know let's bring everybody into writing songs right so and by the total four album, we'd all, we started getting a little Rosanna. We started filling our oats, like everybody is a writer. Like, we would put our toe on the while we were getting our songs on records, you know. So David was our hero, and he was encouraging us and teaching us and mentoring us into stepping up our game. And that's when Total Four is when it sort of all clicked for us.

You know, the first album was like, wow, we get to make a record. The other two, we were trying to find our sea lakes. We want to be this. We got, we started reading our own bad press and getting paranoid and tried to be, something we weren't or veered away from what people liked about us in the first place and when we came back to it on total four once we said stop trying to be what we think we're going to be or you know we're just going to be ourselves and the record company goes you better deliver otherwise you're done that was rather really that's how they were yeah i mean you'd be very

inspired when you realize that like you know you may lose the dream you know i i just can't even imagine going in and not having songs really prepared we never did never The only thing we did is when the machines kicked in, we started working with outside riders. I'd bring in a pretty polished demo. Some of them would Jeff would go, why don't I just put that on the 24 track and let me play drums for that.

It just starts with a beat. Well, the original groove is the bow dittily groove, not this. Really? Dave started like that. And Jeff goes, no no no no no we were listening to the fooling the rain and babylon sisters Jeff goes no this is what this is where it should be and he came up with that groove and we all just jumped in started jamming on it and then wait wait let's write down the cords and get it right

said we got made a little cord sheet and then we started how fun was this was you having great time back then you know we weren't we weren't married we were just living in the studio doing sessions and making our own records and everybody was hanging out all the studios were like Van Halen would be in studio one. We were in the two. And you knew that. You worked with him. Yeah.

Yeah. No, we've been friends forever. But every studio we were in, we knew everybody. And the artists would come in to be co-mingling. We'd hang out in the group area, whatever. You'd see everybody party with them. Come in and dig our record. Come and we'll come dig yours.

It was a camaraderie. It was kind of cool. This one kind of just came out. Was this? I remember when Dave played that for me in his apartment in Westwood, before the first album came up he had a spit at piano he's going I got this new tune

invited us all up and we said well that's you got some shit there man and you just came up with that bam yeah I was trying to rock everything up you know always were they ever like hey

hey can you just rock a little down no no no no they have to dial you down look at everybody brought something different to the band which made it collectively when we play together make that noise you know because of the different musical influence

of each individual musician and stuff like that. You know, I was the guy that wanted to turn everything on 11. Jeff was really, Jeff and Hungay were the groove guys, you know. Paige wanted to be Elton.

And Steve was that wanted to be Keith Emerson, the mad scientist. But how do you all come together? And we wanted to be Ray Charles. So we put that in a big musical gumbo and without, we didn't never talk about it. It seems like you had to fight

because you all wanted different things. No, man. We didn't, you know, we didn't want to work that hard. We want to get, it done quick this is some people say one of the best songs ever one of the best songs ever you play a million times you know this song how did this come about uh well it sort of it was a production experiment you know what I mean really you're gonna have to pay for this now you know

but I'm not going to make any money so I don't care no we only pay 10 seconds of no you guys kill me um it was they had just gotten uh Steve Piccaro and David Page were working in R&D with Yamaha. They had to sign non-disclosure, lab coats and all that crap back in the late 70s, early 80s. And they were making the GS-1 and the CS80, their top of the line, new synthesizer keyboards that no one's heard of. And it had columba sounds and all these wacky sounds. It had inspired Dave to come up with the initial part of Africa, the riff. And he started playing the riff.

And we're going, man, that's really, and singing before lyrics, singing to melody. We're going, that's a killer, man. That's catchy as, that's catchy as fuck. We should cut that. And then Jeff goes, yeah, but let's do it differently. Let's do loops and stuff, like, you know. What's that mean? Drum loops.

And then we'd really make, like it's old school electronic music. He'd go out and we work with Al Schmidt, legendary Grammy Award winning, you know, producer engineer, legendary. I mean, he knew how to do all this stuff. We wanted to, you know, we heard about the Beatles doing stuff or Pink Floyd doing stuff. We wanted to do stuff like our heroes, you know. You were 20, what, 22 in this? came out

23, 24 when I did that record. Jeff went out and said, I'm going to play for a minute, just record, I'm going to pick one or two bars that feels good, and then we're going to overdub on that.

So he just went out and started playing the group. Dave was playing a rough keyboard part and Jeff goes, okay, let's use this bar and then they cut the tape. They recorded on a half-inch machine and he took that

and they cut it and then edit it together so that it would be an endless loop of just Jeff playing the groove. and if you hear the record you can hear there's one bar that keeps going and we're all playing to that

and overdubbing to that and so then Dave went out and got his main keyboard part out there and played the CS80 which is the part that's the intro of the song that weird keyboard sound well not weird keyboard it's a very unique when people hear it they go

oh yeah that song yeah yeah and they cut that then he put a piano part on it then Hungay put a bass part on it then I started putting a ton of acoustic guitars electric guitars on it and then Jeff called his father Joe and Amel

Richards, very famous percussion, to bring down all the African weird percussion and actually they did that before we started putting all the rest of the stuff on there and they made it all built this whole percussion thing we filled up four 24 tracks with stuff I think it was the first mix

to sink up for 24 track machines that guy with the lab coats in there you know they're looking at everything and it took a while for it all sync up this was like 1981 so it was pretty heady tech stuff did you know something was really special the thing was we cut this track and then Dave you know Dave and Jeff went away with the lyrics you know

Dave had it came back with the lyrics and we started cracking up going like Dave Africa what is this mean Sarangetti you bless the rains yeah Dave are you Jesus are you blessing the rain and we kind of cartooned on it and we thought the wild dogs cry out in the night I'm going this we're cracking I go with this song's a hit

I'll run naked and I'll all you and roll it I go, it's a great track. It's a great exercise in production. There's some hokey parts, but this is never going to be a hit record. So we'll just bury it and put it as the last song on the whole album. And now, who knew it would turn into what it did? I mean, it was big back then. It was the number one one with the Grammys and all that.

I remember 1982 going to Westlake with my family and friends. That song was that year, the whole year. That's all you ever heard. You won a Grammy for that? Yeah. You won five Grammys, right, in your life? Well, if you count all of them then. I was like nine.

But who's counting? I won one for writing a turning to love around for George Benson. I co-wrote that with Jay Graydon and Bill Champlin. What about from Chicago? Bill Champlain, right? Yeah. Yeah. Originally from the sons of Champlin.

Ah, yes. And then you also wrote the Tube She's a Beauty, co-wrote? With David Foster and Fewebel, yeah. Talk to you later, too. Jesus. I got played on all that stuff, too. I mean, you really could have, you say you're going to play until the end, but you could have retired.

20 years ago, you've done so much. It's like, if I did one-tenth as much as you did, I'd be like, God, I'm a legend. Even, what am I supposed to do in my life? I mean, I've retired from being a session guy. I haven't been a session guy in 25 years. Would you still do it? Occasionally somebody that I, a friend or somebody really cool calls me on the phone and go, I'll do a solo, I'll show up, you know.

Do you charge? I just did something for Edgar Winner. Do you charge for solo still, for a session? Well, I mean, I go pay me whatever you want. If I decide to do it, I go, like, I go pay me what you pay everybody else. If a good buddy says, hey, man, Can you come in for two hours for five grand? No, I mean, I wouldn't take any money from a great buddy.

I mean, not to say that these people aren't great buddies, but if everybody's getting paid, you've got to pay me too. So I just go pay me what you're paying everybody else. That's cool. Favorite Nation's deal. He's waiting to ask you to come play. No, no, no. I haven't said.

No, no, no. I have an album's done. It's not good enough. Oh, you made a record? I made an album. I always wanted to. I said, fuck it. I made an album.

I would have played on your record because you're my friend. I would have done it for nothing. Well, I didn't say it was master, jet I'm busy right now guess me on the next one you're always busy you're the busiest fucking guy I've ever met in my life

you're always on tour you're always doing something you're a good dad you're a good family man Travis your son is a great kid I love that guy he comes over gives me a big kiss in the lips when I seen he's doing really well actually his band's gonna open 10 shows ZFG zero fucks given is what it stands for

Zero fucks given it's him and Mike Baccaro's son Sam Josh Devine from one direction on drums killer Jules Galley, this kid's singer is an unbelievable singer And they all have the look Their young, skinny little dudes Does he ask you for advice ever?

Does he ever say, Dad, what do you think of this? Occasionally? Dad, can you help me out with this? You know, I'm his father. I'm also, he's also my best friend, you know? I mean, he's 32 years old now. He's my bud, man, you know? I think he was my dad in the past life.

He's much wiser. He skipped all the bullshit I went through and went right to being a response. Does he call you on bullshit? Yeah. Oh, sure. You see that fuck off. You're lying.

Yeah, sometimes. I don't always agree with him, but sometimes he's right. Hey, listen, I want to, I know you're out here. I could talk to you forever. But listen, man, this is fucking, Rob, isn't this great? This is so interesting because we never have musicians really in here. Who have we had? Not many musicians.

Oh, really? Okay. I like that. I like that. You're like really the first. We had like a younger musician, Andrew McCann. McMahon. McMahon, who's great.

He was fantastic. The starboard, right? Keyboard player. Okay, there's a different guy, sorry. Yeah, but he was fantastic, but like having you in here a legendary, to me, you're a rock star. So, uh, no, I'm just your guy next door to the place guitar. You really are, just a guy, but you're having to be a really good guy and a good guitarist. Thank you.

You're very kind. Anyway. Thanks your audience for putting up in my nonsense. No, tell me about, tell me about, let's just jump into this, because people want to hear this, the thriller album. Because, I mean, that's like you've talked about a million times. It's in your book. You can read all this in his book. Well, of course, it's probably the most famous record I play.

laid on yeah most famous circuit did you were you excited do you get star struck when you back even back then when you were meetings we got the call I mean I've been working with Quincy I did the whole dude album you know all that just once and all those wait wait just like James Ingram yeah wait a minute

you worked on just once can we find a way I did that whole a thousand ways and all that's 100 ways yeah it's all me man all that whole era Patty Austin all those great things and stuff yeah I did all this stuff and then from that you know Quincy was going to make the night you know it was off the wall was huge Steve McCar worked on that and David Foster introduced me to Quincy and then Quincy

took a shine to me him and Bruce Wooddeen I adored these guys they treated me like a king man they were great and then you know being mentored by Quincy at the time it just I was 23 years old 22 and they took me in took a shine to a little white boy from North Hollywood you know and I was Rod Temperton man you know he's his whole he had a really unique way of making records and Rod wrote a lot of stuff on off the wall and he was going to be riding with Michael for Thriller. So they said, well, we want you on, I said, Q's like, I want you on a bunch of this stuff.

You, Jeff, Paige. Well, you know, he said to me, but the first call we got was to do Paul McCartney, Michael Jackson, duet. That was the first track cut for the whole album. Yeah. And we got the call to do this, so we were really excited. And Paul McCartney, I get to meet my first Beatle, Paul McCartney, are you kidding me? Paul McCartney and Michael Jackson.

I mean, there wasn't a bigger session to be added. What's the first thing you said to Paul McCartney? What's the first thing he said to you? I think I was probably just like... Enamored. Trying, remembering to breathe because I probably couldn't. And he was so... But him and Linda strolled in it, and she was so lovely and so wonderful.

And they made us feel at ease. I mean, of course, we must have looked like, you know, like, from his point of view, he walked in the room and there's Paige, me, Steve, and, you know, the cats that were on the right of Lewis Johnson and who J.R. No, it was Jeff, Jeff McCall. And, you know, we just look at these, you know, we just, the God just walked. walked in through the room. Didn't he say something like... I mean, we must have looked like we saw like, you know, just the, like, the look, we all like

flash frozen. Oh my God, like we met Santa Claus. He's real. Didn't he say to you? Didn't he say to you guys? I smell marijuana? Must be musicians. Well, that was later. That was later. We cut the track. We worked for, you know. You worked and then you had a house. No, we worked. And we were just getting, you know, poking at each other. We started jamming on, I was made the lover that Stevie Wonder song and Paul and Michael in the phones. And we were jamming. It was killing. made everybody feel at ease and then, you know, we played the track and nailed it real fast. And after there was a hundred people in the room.

There was all sorts of weird Dick Clark and Child Stars and Michael was carrying around Emmanuel Lewis like a ventriloquist, you know, the Webster. He ate like a ventriloquist dummy. He was just hanging over his arm walking around. They're just hanging out. I'm going to his Webster, man. He's carrying Webster right. And we're all in the, you know, there's the control of all the menagerie.

And then there was us out in the car. control room out in the studio with the gear and just sitting around you know through smoking cigarettes or whatever and you know i think we got the track and jeff sparked up a joint and then all of a sudden paul in the room we're going oh oh and hit paul goes i smell musicians yeah and and that totally broke the ice and him and linda we got this great moment when quincy and everybody with michael were all in the control booth doing all the crazy stuff with the press and all that because it was a big deal it was very private super high security thing and we were just out there goof and off being ourselves and he came out and hung out with us who were around the piano and he started

telling us a beetle stories and stuff like that and he took us he really liked with the experience and he invited jeff and i to come to you know london and work with him in his movie and you know we got to hang you know that's where we met george martin and jeff emmerick and we spent two weeks with those guys it was it's all in the book it's a great story it's a long one but i mean he was my first beetle i ever got to meet did you enjoy working with michael yeah michael was great to me i did all the stuff on beat it. That's all me, except for the soul. I played all the guitar parts and the bass part, and Eddie played

the solo. Eddie played the solo. I played all I came up with the back cap of that part. No, that was great. And we did, Human Nature was basically a Toto song. Steve McCall wrote the song. That's all of us playing. That's another example of just

the song had no guitar when Quincy and Michael cut it. And Quincy calls and he goes, you got to make this song funky for me man it's not funky enough for michael human nature needed to be funky well you know it didn't have the guitar part that's on there right now that's a kind of glue for the whole song right and there was just whole notes you know and then i and then and then quince and quince he goes you know do you got something from me man i need your help here and i came up with that part on the spot and then i double tracked it and that's the record that you're hearing now ironically when steve poco heard the heard my party

hated my guitar part because he'd never heard guitar on the song at all and then i put that it's a very quirky weird sound was a guitar shecter guitar plug direct into the harrison console with a little bit of harmonizer and i double tracked it so it has this weird unique guitar sign you never heard on anything else because it was just a one of a one day it wasn't like you press a button you can have that sound we actually created that sound from nothing what would you uh would you change anything about the life you've led life you've had the shit you've done sure man

I would I would not a lot of it you know the mistakes you know well we all make mistakes yes I would have I would have been a lot more careful with my money

I would have stayed away from hard drugs I would have not have drank so much to the point where I had to stop because it was affecting my life I hurt some people that I love through the years

and I made some mistakes you know I was in anger I've said things I wish I hadn't I can't say I mean I got to live the dream that I always have as a little kid of being a working musician

the dream actually turned out much better than I had hoped but there's a price and that price is being away from watching my children grow up every day I can't ever get that back so I mean you know I spend a lot of time with my kids hands on when I'm home

I'm like I drive to school but pick up my daughter and go to the volleyball game I'm the same fruity dad as every one of you you know any one of the father out there I do the same stuff I'm not some big special guy i go out i mean like i have famous friends yeah i mean every once in a while somebody goes hey my in my 11 year old's like really dad i go yeah you listen these people are nice they

help paper our house we have to be nice to the people do you have a lot of friends i'm flattered really i mean it's not like it happens all the time do you have a lot of friends that aren't famous do you would you rather hang out a lot of my childhood friends are still my childhood friends still the same guys yeah we get together all the time well not all the time we try to get together at least every couple of months or so who's the famous guy that you really loved you just feel really comfortable with like you could be yourself a million percent with wringo you could be yourself a million percent there's no bullshit there's just two guys hanging out in a room you're with wringo star and you don't feel at all like i have to be someone else no it's steve lucifer we've become great friends i i

respect and adore the man and he's took a shine to me and we know we hang outside of the gig, you know. I heard from him this morning, as a matter of fact, you know. I still get a kick. Let's call him right now. Let's call Ringo. Listen, I'd be lying if I told you I didn't get a kick when I see Ringo texts. It's Ringo texting you. You know, every once in a while, I mean, I go back to that, you know, being that kid, watching the Beatles on the TV show, but we're way past all that now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, as a man, if his name was Bob Smith, I go, this is still the coolest guy I've ever met my life. I want to hang out with this guy. His wisdom, his humor is just his talents and his, it's just, it's joy to be around. What about the worst guy? What about one of the worst people you've worked with that you just would never work with again? What's the worst guy you ever play with him?

He's on a tour with you and you're like, I want to fucking punch this guy out. You know, there are a few, but I'm not going to tell you. You can't tell me. Because it just opens up wounds that don't need to be open up. You know, here's the thing. Nobody gets along with everybody 24-7, 100% of the time. There's guys that you meet and you go,

oh, that guy's cool. And then you go, that guy's a rub there, man. You know, and I have a tendency to speak my mind if I... People know if you don't like it. I call bullshit when I see it. Not always the popular thing to do. You ever get in a fist fight? No, man.

Come on, man, I'm a guitar player, dude. I've mouthed off like I got something to back it up with, but I got nothing, man. Especially now I'm broken. What am I going to? The only thing I'm good for is if I get one lucky punch and can run like a motherfucker. But that's it, man. Our drummers? I'm an old guy.

I'm an old guy. Are drummers? I'm going to beat somebody up, please. Are drummers usually the craziest? Is that a rule of thumb? That in a band the drummer is always the fuck-down. I'm going to throw myself out of the bus and say that I think the guitar players

are the worst of all. Really? We were the most obnoxious ones as a collective, not all at the same time. But sometimes there'd be a group of us together would be like a Tasmanian devil. Who kept you in line in the band? Was Paige the guy?

Was Paige the guy? Who was the guy who said, Steve? You got to chill out there. Jeff had to throw a look your way and you'd know it was the big brother look like like you're fucking up dude yeah stop back and look at it well you didn't have to say nothing he just look at you and then you'd realize your own sins and go ooh were you ever in an odd crowd where it's like 50,000 people watching or 20,000 people watching or more i know you've played for hundreds of thousands probably

but have you ever played where you fuck up africa or rosanna oh god i mean you rip it apart you're like i just destroyed this oh god guys hate me no man shit the bed man absolutely to bed. I mean, a real moment that people notice, not just you, because you notice little things. There's been so many of them. I couldn't count them. It happens almost every night. There's something funny happens. There's so much that can go wrong.

You see? The reason why we all love spinal tap is because all that shit happened to us, or some permutation of it did, and we've all lived it. Get a little lost backstage. I mean, you know, you just have to, you know, repeated viewing. And I got

the chance that I got to produce their second record. or four tracks on their second record. I'm the right guy for the job. But we went and saw the movie together. No, I mean, yeah, I screw up all the time. I make mistakes. You know what? If you go to a show and there's no mistakes

and everything's perfect, then it's probably the record or pro tool's going, you know? Because, you know, no one's perfect. It's like Perlman, the finest violinist on the planet. He'll bend a note a little sharp sometimes. I'm not talking about bending a note. I'm talking about fucking miscellaneous. strong up.

I'm talking about one of the finest positions ever to walk the planet, as opposed to Rocha Rock and Roll guys who make mistakes in. Yeah, man, there's been some horrible nights. And, you know, especially if I was drinking back in the day. It was like, no, God, man, it's like watching yourself die slowly. And then the comments are brutal. I know what it's like to be a pinata. Just beating on to you just bleed open.

Bring your baseball bat with the nails in next time so you can really dig in there. You have to have a sense of humor about the shit always you'd kill yourself with a box gutter to your neck or something. What's the funniest shit that ever happened to you on stage? The funniest thing that ever happened where just the experience. It's going to be hard to explain because, and it's not even a nasty story. This is really G-rated.

I want to hear it. It is so fucking funny. Now that's not G-rated. Back in the day, when the keyboards had gotten to the point where it's a controller on stage, instead of you'd go see yes and there'd be 500 keyboards on stage and stuff. Well, you know, as tech progressed, it'd be one

keyboard on a stage, there'd be a guy offstage, almost like a second engineer pre-mixing all the keyboards or stuff like that. And there's some samples and stuff like that horn sample or, you know, sound effect or something like this. And all the different songs are on one keyboard. And there's a guy there that can touch it and do this. It's not, it's just adding to the sound, you know what I mean? Right, right, right. But it's all the songs on one keyboard. So we were, we used to have the song called Stop Loving You that we played was a hit in Europe. And, Dave would do this, me and him would do this intro thing to it, and he'd play these really

lush chords, and I do kind of like, Dave Gilmore, not unlike the beginning, we were trying to do shine on your crazy diamond kind of thing, the intro to it. And then we go into our song. Well, Dave's all alone, spotlight on him. I'm in the dark, the spotlight hits me when I'm supposed

to come in, but the arena is full. It hits Dave in the spotlight, and the controllers changed. So when he played a chord on the keyboard, front everything that was on every song all hit at the same time it was the most amazing noise I'd ever heard in my life and the look at day was it a bad noise it was horrendous I can't even explain to it was a million noises it was like you could never recreate it ever did you

shit your pants I knew what it was see the audience just heard this cacophony of noise they had no idea what this was but I knew what happened and the look on page's face he was staring because he was the only one lit. Pins, the whole audience just look at him with his head. And then, you know, the lighting guy doesn't really realize what's going on. He just goes, oh, he fucked up. He's going to hit me with the cue. The light hits me.

I'm on my knees, howling, laughing. I can't play. And the whole lot of tapes like going, mouthing, fuck you to me. Play something. Help me out here while they switched the program again. I'm like, what did you jump into? I just played some shit. You know, I'm just getting on bottom some time.

came back in no one was the wiser but that's the kind of stuff i knew what it was and it was the most we still talk about it's human how can we make that noise this indescribable noise sound effects horns different weird things from all these different songs all coming off at once when he's supposed to play a chord there's no chord it's just noise it's like it was amazing what a great memory huh well we have all kinds of memories like that any naked girls were on stage yeah a lot not a lot now were you the biggest ladies man of the band i had a moment Yeah, I mean, you know, after my first divorce, I sort of went crazy for about 10 years and had a few cool relationships and then I went crazy again and then I got married again. Did you blow most a lot of your money in the beginning on drugs, Coke, stuff like that back in the day?

No, I mean, we got ripped off was what happened. What do you get ripped off? Well, we all were at the same accountants and stuff like that and we were all part in, but, you know, we're also all making a lot of money as essential players and in a band, but they were filtering money off the top and they co-mingle our money together. you know and then it was it was a mess so you know being young kids you know given the keys to the kingdom and the money to spend you know i was smart i bought a house and then i parlayed it into another house and but i wasn't saving a lot of money and i was lied to saying oh we got this same we got this pension account for you didn't have anything they was ripping us off blind and we were too young and stupid and busy to realize what was going on well you look at wikipedia and wikipedia

or say Steve Luketh is worth $80 million. That's what it says in Wikipedia. Net worth, 80 million. That's hilarious. Don't you wish you had 80 million? Yeah, man. I mean, over the course of the years, who knows. But, like, you know, that ain't my bank account, man.

You know, I do okay, but I don't do 80 million, okay. 80 million's really good. That'd be strong. That would be. This has been a real true, man. I do okay, but I mean, that 80 million. Okay, I want 80 million, then I'll retire, okay. You'll retire with 80 million?

If you give me $80 million, I'm done. You'll never see me again. Where would you go? I'd find an island somewhere, probably just let my hair go white and sit playing some little band and grow a beard and never tell anybody who I am and just live my life out on the beach, hanging out with my kids. That's the wet dream, but I'll never happen. If I gave you an acoustic guitar right now, what's the one song if you had to play just a couple of legs?

I don't have a pig I don't have a pig. And you tell it you need My Colise you're right? I don't know Favorite stone song Oh, there's too many There's too many

The stones were another one They were like second, you know Hardest Hendricks song to play Hardest? And could you play 1983 Give me a pick If you want me to fucking do this, you know I'm telling you man

I've been trying to get you to do this forever You've been the busiest fucker in the world Thank you for having me, Michael. Did you have fun? Yeah, I did, man. It's always fun to hang with you, Rosie. This has been a real treat for me. This is the first rock star in my fucking podcast.

This book, The Gospel, according to Luke. This is probably his one and only book that he'll ever write. Am I right? I'm not going to be Stephen King. No, that's not going to happen. I wish. Steve Vi wrote the foreword. Dude, looked them up.

Toto's still playing. They're better than ever. I've seen you guys like probably eight times. It always sounds amazing. This year is going to be in the last year we play for a while. We've been on a cycle for a long time We're going to take a line Is this 40?

43 now 43 years We've started the 40 trips around You know Doing the whole process of making the record Doing the tour World War what We're in year two

So October 20th This is the last show So if you want to come see us Now it'd be the time Dude go see them Trust me I take all my friends It's just a fucking great time

One of the best guitar players One of the best guys I know Steve Lucaser Thank you for a lot My brother Thanks buddy My brother Hi, I'm Joe Sal C. Hi, host of the Stacking Benjamin's podcast. Today, we're going to talk about

what if you came across $50,000. What would you do? Put it into a tax-advantaged retirement account. The mortgage. That's what we do. Make a down payment on a home. Something nice. Buying a vehicle. A separate bucket for this addition that we're at. $50,000, I'll buy a new podcast. You'll buy new friends. And we're done. Thanks for playing, everybody. We're out of here.

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